DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market

00:00:00.000 | Hey, everybody, welcome to the world's greatest podcast. With

00:00:03.480 | me again, the world's number one podcast. Yes, the world's

00:00:06.180 | number one podcast. We came in eighth last week, I think for

00:00:08.880 | those of you looking at the iTunes rankings, which is

00:00:12.040 | absurd. We've only got to be number eight across all of

00:00:15.760 | Apple. Something like that. Yeah, whatever their top

00:00:18.520 | episodes are on the weekends. Well, that means we crushed on

00:00:20.880 | Spotify, then. Probably Yeah, I would guess. I don't I don't

00:00:25.160 | know all the rankings, but and and I guess on YouTube, we got

00:00:28.320 | labeled with some COVID thing magic. I mean, it's what's going

00:00:32.400 | on at YouTube a joke, like literally you're labeling COVID

00:00:36.080 | at this point. I mean, what a joke. Oh, my lord.

00:00:39.240 | So I guess we have to at the top of the show talk about the

00:00:46.920 | fundraiser. And I guess this like Vinod Khosla came in hot

00:00:50.840 | this week and attacked the besties. Let's play the clip.

00:00:55.680 | What is your sense of the shifting winds in the valley

00:00:58.520 | around politics? I think for a very long time, the valley was

00:01:01.520 | seen as sort of a liberal bastion. But you know, if you

00:01:05.480 | listen to Elon Musk, or you listen to all in podcast and

00:01:10.320 | that gang and others, it seems to be shifting potentially

00:01:14.560 | towards former President Trump. Is that just a small pocket? Or

00:01:18.120 | do you think that that's a real shift in terms of the way the

00:01:21.680 | valley's thinking politically?

00:01:24.000 | The first thing I would say is all in podcast, and some of the

00:01:28.160 | supporters there are not based in the valley. I would say

00:01:32.080 | there's a bunch of MAGA extremists in every part of

00:01:35.640 | society. And I hope we can prevent them from destroying

00:01:40.720 | democracy, which is probably the most important issue we face.

00:01:44.160 | All right, snacks. Why are you destroying democracy?

00:01:50.280 | Now that's a good fit.

00:01:51.480 | All right, David. If I know was at the conference, he got a

00:02:14.640 | little chippy here. Maybe he got a little bit out of line. He's a

00:02:17.000 | little bit out of line. What's your take? A little bit a little

00:02:19.640 | bit? A little bit? Well, first of all, Vinod should realize

00:02:23.640 | we're not MAGA extremists or extremists of any sort, because

00:02:26.600 | he's at all in summit last year. He was great. Yeah, we like what

00:02:29.680 | he had to say productive. I certainly don't dispute his

00:02:32.360 | expertise and track record in tech. But in addition to that,

00:02:37.320 | then he's saying that we're not based in Silicon Valley. We're

00:02:40.160 | not from Silicon Valley. We've all been here for decades. And

00:02:42.080 | then he doubled down on that in the tweet. So that's a bizarre

00:02:45.240 | statement. Maybe he thinks he gets to define people in or out

00:02:49.120 | of Silicon Valley. I don't really understand it. But to be

00:02:52.360 | frank, this is one of a series of statements that he's made

00:02:56.640 | recently that I can only call insulting and childish. First,

00:03:02.560 | he had this tweet that he said that Trump supporters were

00:03:05.920 | lacking in empathy and caring. Then he had another tweet where

00:03:09.640 | he said that Trump supporters weren't teaching good values to

00:03:12.920 | their kids. This cause Sean McGuire, who's a partner in

00:03:16.480 | Sequoia to quote tweet him saying that I think that I'd

00:03:20.440 | rather raise my kids to grow up to take after Ivanka Trump than

00:03:24.680 | 100 Biden. Yeah, and that got like something like 20,000 likes

00:03:28.800 | and it was one of those brutal ratios I've ever seen on a

00:03:31.880 | tweet. So in any event, I mean, this is just one in a series of

00:03:36.600 | partisan tweets. And look, I think you can take whatever

00:03:38.960 | position you want on a political candidate. I can understand. If

00:03:42.440 | he doesn't like Trump, a lot of people don't. He's raising money

00:03:45.720 | for Biden. That's fine. doesn't bother me at all. fundraiser like

00:03:49.320 | two weeks ago or something. Exactly. That's not an issue at

00:03:52.120 | all. But what I do take offense at is labeling millions and

00:03:56.920 | millions of ordinary Americans as somehow lacking in empathy,

00:04:00.720 | lacking in caring, not being good parents, because you don't

00:04:04.000 | like their support for Trump. Yeah. And I think that that that

00:04:08.560 | is a statement that frankly, reeks of being cocooned in an

00:04:15.040 | elite bubble for way too long. And let me just explain, if you

00:04:19.040 | look at where Trump support is strongest, it's really in Middle

00:04:24.320 | America in sort of the heartland of America of what in between

00:04:27.440 | the elite states, basically, the part of America that coastal

00:04:30.760 | least dismissively refer to as flyover country. Sure. And it's

00:04:36.840 | a lot of the industrial Midwest. And frankly, that part of the

00:04:41.600 | country has not had the same type of economic experience that

00:04:44.960 | we've had in Silicon Valley. Of course, they have not been

00:04:47.440 | beneficiaries of globalization, or equities, you know, and

00:04:51.880 | they're, they're in the working class and then working class in

00:04:54.640 | the factories got gutted. Yeah, that's it. Well, yeah, look, if

00:04:57.240 | you're in one of the handful of export industries in America,

00:05:01.320 | and I'm talking about if you're in Hollywood, or you're in big

00:05:03.760 | finance, or you're in software, then globalization has been

00:05:07.320 | great for you. Because it has created huge global markets for

00:05:11.720 | our products. However, if you're in an industry that has to

00:05:16.220 | compete with global exports, then it's been very bad with

00:05:20.640 | you. And blue collar workers have been hurt, labor has been

00:05:23.280 | hurt, people who work with their hands have been hurt. They have

00:05:25.880 | not benefited in the same way from the system that we've had

00:05:30.120 | in this country for the last 30 years. So you can understand why

00:05:33.080 | they would not be so enchanted with elite thinking. And I think

00:05:38.440 | to then label those people as lacking and caring or empathy or

00:05:42.320 | not being good parents, because they haven't had they haven't

00:05:44.680 | had the same economic ride that you've had for the last 30

00:05:48.520 | years. And then you it's a blind spot. You are the one who is

00:05:52.840 | fighting a legal battle to kick some of those people the public

00:05:56.920 | the surfers,

00:05:57.760 | kick the public off of the public beach in front of your

00:06:02.680 | beach house. And then you're saying they're the ones lacking

00:06:06.160 | in empathy. Dude, look in the mirror. Yeah, I mean, listen,

00:06:09.560 | the great irony of this is, as you know, the Democrats were

00:06:13.080 | supposed to be the the party of the working people and Biden was

00:06:15.720 | supposed to be the pinnacle of that, like fighting for unions

00:06:18.400 | fighting for the working person. And so they've just lost that

00:06:21.440 | whole thing. And

00:06:22.200 | I'll say like, it feels like a lot of people are tilted,

00:06:24.480 | because they defeated Trump, and now he's back. And so that tilts

00:06:28.320 | a lot of people like there was a lot of effort, a lot of energy,

00:06:31.280 | and a feeling of success, that Trump was ousted. And the fact

00:06:36.080 | that the guy is now the front runner to be president again,

00:06:38.360 | can be very tilting after feeling like you've already won

00:06:41.440 | the battle. And guess what, it's back. I will also defend Vinod

00:06:44.280 | real quick. I'll say, having known Vinod for a long time,

00:06:47.360 | he's an investor with me. He's a guy I've come to appreciate and

00:06:52.280 | think highly of. We had him at the summit. He was great at the

00:06:56.080 | summit. It was great. This was awesome. If you listen to his

00:06:58.320 | thing, he said, the listeners of the pod, and then he said,

00:07:01.680 | MAGA extremist, so they're not based in Silicon Valley. I think

00:07:04.840 | he was referencing that the listeners of the pod are not

00:07:07.120 | based in Silicon Valley, and they are mad. Yeah, I couldn't

00:07:10.280 | hear. I think what he meant to say was, and some of the

00:07:12.440 | supporters there are not based in Silicon Valley, meaning like

00:07:14.920 | the supporters,

00:07:15.680 | to mouth your thoughts on the notes comments.

00:07:18.280 | Yeah, I think the notes comments are a microcosm of something

00:07:22.000 | that's a little bit bigger than just him, and I think is roughly

00:07:26.920 | emblematic of the mainstream media, which is, I think the

00:07:30.720 | four of us have found over the course of these last four years

00:07:35.640 | doing the podcast, a rhythm, where there's a whole diversity

00:07:39.800 | of views. We've always respected each other, we've learned from

00:07:42.960 | each other. And each of us have taken turns, expressing

00:07:47.440 | something that the others have ended up converging on. That's

00:07:50.680 | not a holistic statement on every issue, but it has it has

00:07:53.520 | happened. And that's a an incredible example of how you

00:07:58.600 | should figure things out from first principles, especially

00:08:01.240 | things that matter. And I think this is the first time and you

00:08:05.320 | know, look, David said this a few years ago, he said, sax did

00:08:08.320 | that, the course of elections will be driven by podcasts. And

00:08:15.680 | I didn't give that a full enough waiting at the moment when he

00:08:20.920 | said it. But I think what I'm realizing is it's not

00:08:24.040 | necessarily just that podcasts will frame elections, but it's

00:08:27.840 | the counterfactual, which is that it fills a vacuum. And I

00:08:32.320 | think what you're seeing right now are the reactions of people

00:08:35.400 | that have thrived in what used to work, which was a traditional

00:08:40.080 | media infrastructure that would shape how people were supposed

00:08:43.920 | to think. But then all of a sudden, if you can have a

00:08:47.120 | platform like this, where people just talk from first

00:08:50.160 | principles, respectfully, and then the chips are going to be

00:08:54.880 | what it is, you know, people will come to their own

00:08:57.120 | conclusions. I think that that's what people are reacting to. So

00:09:01.040 | I think what the note is reacting to is this sort of

00:09:03.720 | discomfort where you see for reasonable, intelligent people

00:09:07.720 | all of a sudden talk open mindedly about what's happening

00:09:12.080 | in the presidential election. And what you leave out is the

00:09:16.320 | planted orthodoxy of what you're supposed to think. And that's

00:09:20.800 | disconcerting to him. It's just disconcerting and confusing

00:09:24.240 | maybe to Sorkin, who I think is a wonderful reporter and a

00:09:26.800 | thinker. It's disconcerting Jason to every single media

00:09:30.520 | outlet over the last week that's breathlessly been trying to get

00:09:33.560 | me or sacks to have an opinion on this. And the reason I've

00:09:36.440 | deleted all of these emails is they don't get a chance to frame

00:09:39.880 | what we think. You can listen to the podcast and know what we

00:09:43.880 | think. This is the future of how smart, reasonable, moderate

00:09:47.920 | people should make decisions. It is an example. Talking to

00:09:51.640 | somebody you disagree with does not make your opinion

00:09:54.840 | bastardized. It actually makes your opinion valuable. There are

00:09:59.320 | these simple truths to living a productive life that if you want

00:10:02.840 | to embrace, you need to find friends that you can trust even

00:10:06.160 | on issues when you disagree, you can hear them out. So that's

00:10:10.800 | what's happening right now. And I think that that's why we all

00:10:13.800 | need to sort of stand together and lock in arms and just keep

00:10:17.040 | moving forward. It is something really important here that's

00:10:19.720 | happening. And I think that's why the media and these opinion

00:10:23.960 | makers are losing their minds.

00:10:26.040 | Freiburg, your thoughts on this. You're friends with Vinod, as

00:10:30.560 | you mentioned, and you've always said to me and in our personal

00:10:34.800 | discussions that the reason you do this pod is because you

00:10:37.440 | really want to set an example of how to have great conversations

00:10:40.760 | and learn from each other and, and the tone of what we do here.

00:10:44.200 | So your thoughts on this,

00:10:45.480 | the unfortunate reality in a voting system and election cycle

00:10:49.720 | like we're in Vinod went and did a fundraiser, it's public, but he

00:10:52.440 | did a fundraiser for Biden a few weeks ago. And he wants to win

00:10:55.560 | the election, he wants to make his horse win. There's a lot of

00:10:59.360 | reasons why I'm sure Vinod has chosen that person to be his

00:11:02.840 | horse. And so when you get on the playing field, you got two

00:11:06.840 | teams, only one team wins. So you know, everyone pulls out all

00:11:10.360 | the stops to win. One of the things that is done is

00:11:13.080 | unfortunate, and it over time causes an erosion and a

00:11:15.920 | hardening into a kind of polarity between all people,

00:11:20.520 | which is that you call the other side, wrong or bad or extreme,

00:11:24.960 | the term that he used, which really, I think, personifies the

00:11:28.720 | problem is he said their listeners are there are MAGA

00:11:32.400 | extremists,

00:11:33.520 | extremist being the word, right? Magazine needs to make America

00:11:36.560 | great again, which I think everybody wants to make America

00:11:38.680 | great again, whatever the extremism phrase is used by both

00:11:42.560 | parties to describe the points of view of the other side. And

00:11:47.480 | what I think is lacking is a reshifting of the perspective to

00:11:51.440 | say their views are valid. I acknowledge their views, I hear

00:11:55.080 | them, I know why they feel that way. I'm understanding where

00:11:57.600 | that group of people are coming from. And to have that

00:12:00.600 | acknowledgement, unfortunately, softens and weakens your

00:12:03.240 | position and ability to go out and win election. And so both

00:12:05.400 | sides harden themselves and use terms like this, to try and

00:12:09.000 | discredit the other side. So it's unfortunate to see, I think

00:12:13.000 | we all understand where someone who's trying to win a battle on

00:12:15.920 | the field is coming from when they're trying to do this. But I

00:12:18.480 | do think that what is deeply lacking in the erosion that's

00:12:20.840 | arisen is because we can't say, I hear you, I see the problems.

00:12:24.600 | I recognize you as people just like us. You have kids, your

00:12:28.560 | families. And you have a different point of view on the

00:12:32.440 | policies that will work and the individual that will realize

00:12:34.840 | those policies.

00:12:35.560 | I also think it's important to make sure that we reiterate

00:12:39.000 | again, at the sake of being pedantic, the facts, which is

00:12:42.320 | this is a nonpartisan show. And it is a platform that has

00:12:46.840 | showcased and given time to Democrats, and Republicans and

00:12:51.320 | independent independents. Yeah. And they've all taken us up on

00:12:55.120 | it. So that thought by the note is, at best incomplete, and more

00:13:01.400 | appropriately, just stupid and factually wrong.

00:13:04.160 | This is a good point. Larry Summers spoke at the same

00:13:06.320 | conference that

00:13:07.160 | the note Larry Summers, Dean Phillips, Bobby Kennedy, Chris

00:13:11.360 | Christie, I mean, this is a spectrum of people that we are

00:13:14.520 | bringing on. Again,

00:13:15.880 | Cheryl, Sam, you can hear from Jared Kushner, Jared Kushner,

00:13:20.240 | you can hear from them in an unfiltered way and come to your

00:13:24.200 | own conclusion. That's why we were number eight last week.

00:13:27.280 | That's the exact reason why. And I think that that's very scary.

00:13:31.200 | Because instead of power brokers, being able to filter

00:13:34.680 | an opinion, you now have an opportunity to just hear it for

00:13:38.120 | yourself, discuss it amongst your friends and come to your

00:13:40.840 | own conclusion. So we have always been bipartisan here. And

00:13:44.680 | we will continue to be bipartisan. The second thing is,

00:13:46.920 | and I just want to say this again, I have asked the White

00:13:50.080 | House for President Biden to come on the show.

00:13:51.840 | Oh, come on the show, please. Yeah.

00:13:53.760 | Yeah, we've offered the exact same thing.

00:13:56.000 | We are just we are just waiting. People really don't want me to

00:13:59.480 | be friends with you guys. They want me to end my friendship

00:14:01.800 | with you tomorrow. They want me to end my friendship with you

00:14:03.520 | sacks like, like, and these are people who are our mutuals, I

00:14:06.440 | just want to say, and I want to just tell them all equally to go

00:14:08.760 | fuck themselves here. You can believe out the F word. Like I'm

00:14:12.080 | not picking my friends based on their political parties or their

00:14:14.720 | leanings or who they're supporting for president. The

00:14:16.920 | way I look at this sacks is at this point, we're all Americans.

00:14:21.160 | We're in this together. America survive survive Trump's

00:14:25.080 | presidency, America is going to survive Biden's presidency, the

00:14:28.520 | democratic process, it is very messy. Everybody gets to have a

00:14:32.040 | voice. And let's just pause for a second here and open up the

00:14:34.760 | aperture. Let's be thankful that everybody gets to have a say.

00:14:37.880 | Let's keep it from getting personal. Half the humans on

00:14:41.240 | this planet Earth do not have a voice. The one thing that's

00:14:44.480 | trending in the wrong direction globally is people living in a

00:14:47.200 | democracy. It's the one thing not getting better. We have a

00:14:50.360 | lot of work to do in this country. We have to respect each

00:14:53.040 | other like we try to do here on this podcast. And we have to

00:14:55.440 | talk about the important issues. We all agree the budget's out of

00:14:58.080 | control. We all agree the education system sucks. We live

00:15:01.000 | in a multipolar world. We have to figure that out. When we

00:15:04.800 | should go to war when we shouldn't, when we need to stay

00:15:07.240 | out of things. These are complicated issues. And name

00:15:09.960 | calling and this presidency is not as important as tackling

00:15:13.240 | these issues together as Americans. I hope everybody can

00:15:15.480 | keep that in mind. So let's debate this. May the best

00:15:19.200 | candidate win. And then let's move on and solve some problems

00:15:22.880 | here. Okay, and it's getting very personal. Yeah. Well said

00:15:26.840 | really well said. I know I'm really hurt by this because I

00:15:29.440 | tell you personally, it's very hurtful to me because I value

00:15:31.800 | our friendships and they're picking on the wrong guy because

00:15:34.000 | you're the most loyal guy. And so it's kind of like it's going

00:15:36.760 | to be the least effective because you don't care what they

00:15:38.800 | think Jake, that's the problem. So they can get to you. You can

00:15:41.560 | ask me if I do that. Don't tell me what I think sex you can ask

00:15:44.240 | me. Okay. I actually care about the two of you bigger like

00:15:48.520 | brothers. No, we do. But I know I just have to retrain sacks that

00:15:51.120 | he can't tell me what I think. Yeah, no, because you do that.

00:15:54.480 | You put words in my mouth for all listeners. I just want you

00:15:56.640 | to know they've been bickering like this for 20 years. So it's

00:15:58.720 | yeah. No, here's the point. Here's the point. It happens

00:16:01.320 | even worse offline. We're not offline. It's unbelievable.

00:16:03.800 | Stop. You're ruining it. Jake out. You're just running right

00:16:06.280 | now. Here's the thing. I respect, you know, all of my

00:16:10.680 | friends and I like having a diversity of opinions that makes

00:16:13.240 | life more interesting for me. And then to tell me I can't be

00:16:16.160 | friends with this person, that person, the way I grew up, my

00:16:18.520 | dad had a bar, Hells Angels, cops, firefighters, just

00:16:22.360 | everybody was allowed to come and hang out at the bar. Like

00:16:25.080 | we're here. We're having a discourse. Everybody's welcome

00:16:27.880 | for a seat at the table. You don't LGBTQ, but they all of

00:16:30.640 | them the entire rainbow.

00:16:32.160 | What people haven't figured out yet is like cancel culture is

00:16:34.500 | over. virtue signaling is over.

00:16:37.160 | Absolutely. de is over.

00:16:39.200 | It's off trend, not on trend. And the people who are still

00:16:42.240 | tweeting these blanket statements, and they're trying

00:16:44.720 | to demonize the entire other side with unfactual, unfounded

00:16:49.920 | potshots are just making fools of themselves. And you can see

00:16:53.840 | that in there. You can see that in the reaction on x.

00:16:56.320 | All right, let's move on.

00:16:57.680 | And we have some breaking news here. Oh, no, just to put things

00:17:00.920 | on a happier note.

00:17:01.840 | What happened? Did Uber get bought by Tesla just launched

00:17:05.120 | the Tesla mezcal? Oh, breaking news story. Hold on.

00:17:09.120 | It's a breaking news story. Tesla has launched mezcal.

00:17:13.880 | In that beautiful lightning bottle. I just ordered my bottle

00:17:17.640 | of this like seconds ago while we're doing the show. Because

00:17:21.200 | this sold out in like two hours before and now the the bottles

00:17:24.680 | of the original Tesla tequila go for like $2,000. Now, okay,

00:17:28.380 | breaking news. Get yours. Get yours. Now if it's still

00:17:31.480 | smoking mezcal. There you go. Wait a second. Is this going to

00:17:34.240 | compete with the all in a little bit?

00:17:37.440 | Well, sold out by the time we launch our ball. Both can be

00:17:41.440 | sold out. We're both going to be selling that everybody can see

00:17:43.920 | that everybody can win. It's not a zero sum game. Everybody can

00:17:47.520 | secure the bag. All right, let's get into the docket enough of

00:17:50.560 | the self referential influencers. Now did you guys

00:17:53.200 | see my deck this month? We're all influencers. We're all

00:17:55.640 | influencers. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot of

00:17:59.040 | federal regulation going on around AI as we know, regulatory

00:18:03.680 | capture. Shout out to our guy Bill Gurley, who did a great

00:18:05.800 | talk last year about this. On Wednesday, the New York Times

00:18:08.920 | reported that the DOJ and the FTC had struck a deal on how to

00:18:12.520 | go after AI incumbents. Here's the terms of the deal. And

00:18:15.840 | again, this is all breaking. The DOJ gets to investigate

00:18:18.640 | whether NVIDIA violated antitrust laws, they didn't

00:18:21.640 | specify what they're going after here. But it could include the

00:18:25.600 | NVIDIA use of CUDA software to lock customers into using their

00:18:30.000 | GPUs, or maybe how NVIDIA distributes their GPUs to

00:18:33.240 | customers. There's a lot of regulation around that. And the

00:18:35.600 | FTC takes the lead on looking into open AI's conduct and

00:18:38.560 | Microsoft's AI deals. Obviously, there's been a ton of those,

00:18:41.520 | including acquirers, etc. And then just this morning, the Wall

00:18:44.680 | Street Journal reported that the FTC had opened a probe into

00:18:47.360 | Microsoft's deal with inflection AI. That's the one if you

00:18:50.000 | remember, where they bought the staff and then did some fakaka

00:18:53.960 | crazy commerce deal where they give them a bunch of money, I

00:18:56.720 | guess, to bail out the investors. And that one is as

00:18:59.640 | conflicted up and down as you could possibly imagine. They

00:19:02.720 | know Microsoft structured that deal in a way that could avoid

00:19:05.880 | regulatory scrutiny. You heard that here first. Actually, we

00:19:08.880 | talked about this concept of a shadow acquirer on this very

00:19:12.040 | program when we saw it because we'd never seen a deal like

00:19:14.000 | that. It had includes that $650 million licensing fee. All

00:19:18.880 | right, there's tons of other angles here. But let's start

00:19:22.440 | with you, Chamath, what are your thoughts on this regulatory

00:19:26.720 | capture and NVIDIA's ascension? For those of you not watching,

00:19:31.200 | it's almost become the largest market cap company in tech.

00:19:34.440 | Actually, today, NVIDIA passed Apple for a moment in time. So

00:19:37.640 | this is pretty crazy what we've seen with NVIDIA. And here we

00:19:41.640 | got regulatory capture coming in hot. Chamath, your thoughts?

00:19:44.400 | I have two thoughts. They're sort of mixed emotions. The

00:19:49.400 | first is, I think the DOJ and the FTC are totally way out of

00:19:54.560 | their ski tips on this. This is a totally nascent industry. We

00:19:58.920 | don't have any good examples of end user use cases, either at

00:20:03.200 | the enterprise or amongst consumers. We only have 18

00:20:07.960 | months of spend history. It is true that we've spent probably

00:20:11.840 | 750 billion to a trillion dollars collectively now, yep, on

00:20:15.840 | things with the AI label. But it is also true that that's

00:20:19.280 | probably generated less than $10 billion in revenue. So I don't

00:20:24.480 | see what they're exactly investigating in an extremely

00:20:29.000 | immature market where we haven't yet seen one cycle of boom and

00:20:33.480 | bust, so that we know what we're actually dealing with. So it's

00:20:36.680 | way too premature. And it's just people afraid and tilting at

00:20:41.040 | windmills. The second part, the part that's mixed, though, is we

00:20:45.600 | are seeing a clever form of deal making that these huge

00:20:49.680 | hyperscalers are doing to work around the traditional

00:20:53.480 | constraints that you've had on businesses. Jason, you and I

00:20:56.800 | worked at AOL in a moment where AOL paid a very dear cost for

00:21:01.920 | essentially round tripping revenue. Yep. Microsoft had to

00:21:05.640 | go through a huge DOJ inquiry and a settlement decree. And

00:21:10.800 | they were in the penalty box for most of Steve Ballmer's tenure

00:21:13.480 | as a CEO, a lost decade. And the handcuffs came off when Satya

00:21:17.440 | took over that business. So I think what I'm trying to say is

00:21:21.960 | folks have become extremely sophisticated at replacing round

00:21:26.840 | tripping with these complicated tack 2.0, whatever you want to

00:21:31.600 | call it credit oriented deals. They'll finance you to buy their

00:21:35.640 | own chips. All of this stuff has to be scrutinized a little bit

00:21:40.480 | more. So that part I support. But all of a sudden, launching

00:21:44.400 | an antitrust investigation makes no sense. So I really think the

00:21:47.520 | inquiry should be coming from the SEC about is this real

00:21:50.400 | revenue.

00:21:50.800 | That's actually the key issue. And this goes to Chamath, what

00:21:53.920 | we talked about, like, let's, if we're going to police something

00:21:56.400 | tactics, make sense, not competition, which has been Lena

00:22:01.320 | Khan's sort of approach to this, and she's only going to be in

00:22:04.600 | the position for another couple months, but the election goes

00:22:07.400 | the way it's going. So this might all be moot. Freeberg, I

00:22:10.760 | want to get your thoughts on this. We had that great talk

00:22:12.520 | 2851 miles from from bill, and regulatory capture at the

00:22:16.600 | summit, you can look, it would be in the show notes. If you

00:22:19.080 | haven't seen it. It's great talk for your thoughts on this.

00:22:21.640 | I don't know what regulatory capture Nvidia, are you talking

00:22:27.800 | about regulatory capture of Nvidia,

00:22:29.200 | just regulatory capture in the framing of AI? Is it too early?

00:22:33.360 | Hey, we're like, in the we're not even in the first ending

00:22:36.360 | here. And already, we're going to start investigating

00:22:38.920 | everybody. And it just seems pretty sure

00:22:42.000 | one of the silly aspects is they just passed this law in

00:22:46.160 | California, Newsom warns against perils of over regulating AI.

00:22:52.400 | Oh, good. Governor Newsom warned on Wednesday against stifling

00:22:56.360 | the burgeoning AI sector. I mean, Newsom is well informed by

00:22:59.000 | the tech community. So sure, I don't think he and he's also an

00:23:01.800 | intelligent person. So I don't think he'd kind of, you know,

00:23:04.360 | fall quickly in line on this one. But the way that the

00:23:07.360 | statutes were written, is there's a definition on the size

00:23:10.320 | of a model, which in and of itself is very quickly changing.

00:23:13.800 | As we know, we've seen recently significant reductions in model

00:23:17.440 | size, that actually improve performance overall of the model

00:23:21.600 | for specific applications. And it's very likely we end up

00:23:23.920 | seeing a lot of more smaller targeted models being used in

00:23:28.280 | specific applications, instead of one massive general purpose

00:23:31.520 | model being used, or networks of smaller models, which is what

00:23:35.240 | really where I think the industry is going. And if that's

00:23:37.280 | where things go, then this, this statute doesn't even matter, it

00:23:39.880 | makes no sense anymore. And that shows you, I think, how quickly

00:23:42.600 | things are changing. They go and they get a quote, experts

00:23:45.240 | opinions. In a couple of months, those experts come back, they're

00:23:47.960 | like, here's the size of a model that you need to be regulating.

00:23:50.960 | And then the legislators run, and they write the code, they

00:23:54.760 | pass the statute. And all of a sudden, it doesn't even make

00:23:57.560 | sense anymore. So yes, I don't think we really know where this

00:24:00.440 | technology is all falling out at this point. And I think it's

00:24:03.200 | very difficult to have the government kind of reach in too

00:24:06.560 | quickly to try and identify what they should and shouldn't be

00:24:10.280 | allowing to happen from a free market perspective.

00:24:12.440 | Your thoughts, David Sachs, especially in light of the fact

00:24:16.520 | that looking like we're going to have some regime change in

00:24:20.000 | Washington, and the FTC is going to going to going to turn over,

00:24:22.880 | obviously, if that happens.

00:24:24.160 | Well, look, I agree with you guys, this is just too soon to

00:24:27.360 | be opening these investigations. It's true that

00:24:29.720 | OpenAI and Nvidia have leads in their respective markets, but

00:24:34.520 | that's all it is at this point. It's way too early in the

00:24:38.040 | development of these markets to say that these are clearly

00:24:40.560 | monopolists. There's still a lot of competition going on. If a

00:24:45.160 | few years from now, Nvidia still has whatever 85 90% market share

00:24:49.520 | and no one's even close to catching up, then maybe you

00:24:52.000 | consider it a monopolist. Same thing with OpenAI. But it just

00:24:56.360 | seems very early to be rushing into investigations of these

00:24:59.480 | companies. I mean, the AI market is what 18 months old to two

00:25:03.760 | years old, maybe at most,

00:25:05.040 | I'd say two is a good way to look at it. Yeah.

00:25:07.400 | So it's just very early to be doing this. Look, I think this

00:25:10.320 | is of a piece with remember that executive order or whatever

00:25:14.520 | that remember when the White House issued that 100 page plus

00:25:17.480 | executive order on AI regulation, we covered it on the

00:25:21.440 | show. And we also thought that was too soon. And we thought

00:25:25.600 | that if the internet had been regulated in that way, in you

00:25:29.960 | know, circuit 1995 or 1997, it never would have blossomed the

00:25:34.040 | way that it did. You know, you want to give these markets some

00:25:37.040 | time to play out before you bring that down the heavy hand

00:25:40.480 | of regulation on them. So it just seems to me like the

00:25:44.160 | administration is getting carried away here with this

00:25:46.920 | desire to regulate this new space. And I mean, frankly, it's

00:25:51.520 | of a piece with you, I would say an innovation, a hostile

00:25:55.920 | agenda, you also have the attacks on crypto, you just had

00:26:00.000 | buying veto a bill that would have finally given crypto

00:26:03.360 | regulatory framework in the US, it passed with 60 votes in the

00:26:07.600 | Senate, including Democrats like Chuck Schumer. And it still

00:26:11.600 | wasn't good enough. And oh, and it was based on a framework. I

00:26:14.080 | think that came from the SEC. Yeah. But Biden is basically in

00:26:17.320 | the Elizabeth Warren camp that he's going to give no quarter to

00:26:20.120 | crypto. So you've got hostility to AI, you've got hostility to

00:26:25.040 | crypto, you've got hostility to M&A, no one can get an M&A deal

00:26:28.920 | through right now, you put all these things together. Plus,

00:26:32.120 | you've got hostility to options as compensation in terms of the

00:26:36.560 | 25% unrealized gains tax. You add up all these things. And

00:26:42.520 | again, I think this is an agenda that does not benefit Silicon

00:26:45.880 | Valley at all.

00:26:46.800 | Well, and if you want to understand why people are coming

00:26:49.600 | to your fundraiser tonight, if you put all this together, it

00:26:52.240 | doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you're a venture

00:26:54.560 | capitalist or an entrepreneur, and you want to see M&A, and you

00:26:57.280 | want to see entrepreneurship, and you want to see your

00:26:59.000 | companies thrive, you want to see your employees get rich and

00:27:01.160 | have options. Biden is basically handing the election to Trump.

00:27:05.320 | It's like he's doing everything he can to basically alienate

00:27:08.600 | Silicon Valley. So capitalism, you're exactly right.

00:27:11.760 | And innovation. I wouldn't even say it's Silicon Valley. It's

00:27:14.040 | like if you're going to go and build things that are at the

00:27:17.480 | bleeding edge, you know, the government used to be the most

00:27:20.960 | critical supporter of that. Right? If you think about space

00:27:24.440 | or defense, these are areas, the internet itself, the government

00:27:28.720 | was the partner of private industry to make sure that there

00:27:31.120 | was no regulation. And that like really, really exact looking

00:27:34.880 | innovation could happen. That's should be their role.

00:27:37.560 | And this speaks to this decel versus acceleration movement

00:27:42.480 | that we see here in Silicon Valley. And this is what we see

00:27:45.160 | in Texas, Florida, UAE, Riyadh, Doha, there are places in the

00:27:50.280 | world, Singapore, where people are accelerating innovation. And

00:27:54.240 | this is what humans want, not just entrepreneurs, not just

00:27:57.760 | venture capitals, all of us want to see an acceleration of

00:28:00.840 | innovation. Everybody wants to see prosperity. And if you put

00:28:04.400 | yourself up as the D cell candidate, we're not going to

00:28:07.520 | allow M&A, we're going to screw with options, we're going to do

00:28:09.640 | all this stuff, people just not going to vote for you. And

00:28:11.640 | people want crypto legal. So take the memo. I mean, this, I

00:28:15.280 | mean, the fact that Democrats can't feel the candidate that

00:28:18.240 | aligns with the what humanity wants, is absolutely

00:28:24.000 | mindboggling. This is why I think Biden's getting hot swap

00:28:26.600 | this month. You heard it first. He's got I know, Gavin is going

00:28:30.880 | to be running for president, it's going to be Trump and

00:28:33.240 | Gavin, they're swapping Biden. After this first debate, Biden

00:28:36.880 | is going to get demolished by Trump in the debate. It's going

00:28:39.600 | to be elder abuse. He's getting wiped out and hot swapped. You

00:28:42.480 | heard it here first.

00:28:43.320 | Well, there's a lot of a lot of conspiracy theorists online who

00:28:47.400 | agree with you a lot of tit for tat speculation that I'm gonna

00:28:51.280 | get switcheroo hot swap. But look, I mean, I think you make

00:28:54.640 | the correct point, which is, you know, I don't really think about

00:28:57.480 | it this way. But you're right, Biden is the D cell candidate.

00:28:59.960 | And nobody wants that. Also, Trump has shown a learning curve

00:29:04.040 | where he recently has been saying positive things about

00:29:07.160 | crypto. Yeah. And he's always, I think, been more pro economic

00:29:10.600 | growth. He was a real estate developer from the private

00:29:12.720 | sector, he actually understands the economy. So there's no

00:29:16.240 | question that he would be more pro innovation, much more pro

00:29:19.240 | innovation than Biden. And to your point about this is one of

00:29:23.160 | the reasons why people are coming to the fundraiser. I had

00:29:26.120 | someone from the campaign said something very interesting to

00:29:27.760 | me. She said that we've never seen this many new donors. Yeah,

00:29:32.200 | at an event before. So we're turning out the new donors for

00:29:37.160 | this reason. Yes. And you know, we're not going to be

00:29:39.680 | intimidated by people calling us names. You know, it's like,

00:29:42.840 | look, in any normal election, people in an industry would vote

00:29:48.400 | for the candidate who they see as most aligned. Yes. With what

00:29:53.200 | is good for them, their families, their industry made a

00:29:56.400 | list. Let's just make the list here right now. Make the list of

00:29:59.880 | things Trump is in support of, right. And Republicans are in

00:30:03.080 | support of right now. They're going to be pro M&A, they're

00:30:05.920 | going to be pro crypto, they're going to be pro less taxes,

00:30:08.920 | they're going to be pro law and order. You know what, that's

00:30:11.440 | where I align. Those are the things I want. So if you just

00:30:14.840 | list the issues for me, despite how I might feel about Trump and

00:30:18.160 | some of the things he's done, he checks off all my boxes, he

00:30:21.560 | checks off all my boxes. And I think that's what's happening

00:30:24.120 | here. And, you know, people were scared to come out and say this

00:30:27.200 | person checks off all my boxes. The Democrats need to realize

00:30:30.320 | they're out of sync with America. They're out of sync

00:30:32.520 | with powerful people in America, especially the donor base.

00:30:35.200 | They're the D cell candidate party now. And they just have to

00:30:39.120 | flip this thinking they're going to get demolished. It is going

00:30:42.440 | to be a landslide at this point. People want jobs and prosperity

00:30:46.640 | from your lips to God's ears.

00:30:48.680 | Do the hot swap. I mean,

00:30:51.360 | I don't really have a lot more to say. Yeah, yeah.

00:30:55.760 | Take the win. And crypto is such an obvious win. And you know

00:31:00.320 | what, Trump's anti EV right now he's been wailing on EVs. I

00:31:04.080 | guarantee you that's the next thing. I bet you next week he

00:31:06.440 | comes out next week. Within the next two weeks. Here's my

00:31:10.000 | prediction. Trump says you know what, EV is not so bad. Remember

00:31:13.560 | he's been saying EVs nobody wants these things we're

00:31:15.680 | subsidizing. I bet you next week or maybe in 30 days I'm making a

00:31:19.280 | prediction here. You bank the prediction in 30 days Trump

00:31:22.200 | comes out magically in support of EVs.

00:31:25.000 | Well, I think that his point is that people shouldn't be forced

00:31:27.840 | to buy EVs. Right? I mean, I don't think he's against them

00:31:31.880 | per se. I think he's against people being forced. I think

00:31:35.240 | that what the new administration hopefully, or what Trump should

00:31:38.480 | propose is effectively a modus vivendi with big tech, where the

00:31:43.560 | point is that if you stop censoring our people, if you

00:31:46.600 | stop censoring conservatives, if you restore the civil liberties

00:31:50.240 | of the average American to say what they want online to

00:31:53.360 | basically bank online, to stop essentially de platforming and

00:31:58.040 | censoring people, then we will let you innovate, we'll let you

00:32:01.360 | do M&A, we'll let you get back to business. That basically is

00:32:05.040 | the basis for a peace agreement between big tech and the

00:32:09.120 | Republican Party.

00:32:10.000 | Yeah. And by the way, I'd say in the next 30 to 60 days, you're

00:32:15.680 | gonna see 10 incredibly high profile people come out and

00:32:18.400 | support of Trump if Biden isn't swapped out. And when I say high

00:32:21.000 | profile, I have the inside line on this extremely high profile

00:32:24.320 | people, not just Doug Leonie, not just David Sachs, it's not

00:32:26.680 | by up to you. It is going to be about 10 high profile people who

00:32:30.360 | are much higher profile respectfully than Chamath and

00:32:32.880 | Sachs, and Doug Leonie. So just wait for it, folks. You cannot

00:32:36.640 | be a decelerous in, you know, this world. Let's keep moving.

00:32:40.560 | Roaring Kitty, aka Keith Gill, just disclosed a nine figure

00:32:44.360 | position in GameStop. Yes, we're back to where this podcast

00:32:47.600 | started. We're talking about GameStop and as crazy as it is,

00:32:52.160 | and a E trade is considering suspending his account. This is

00:32:55.680 | going to take a little bit of background. I apologize here.

00:32:57.520 | The D platforming him. Here we go again. Quick background. You

00:33:03.040 | remember the first basically viral moment for this podcast is

00:33:07.160 | AI moment. I remember I was in Tahoe skiing was the GameStop

00:33:10.520 | saga back in 2021. 1000s of retail investors following this

00:33:14.720 | individual Keith Gill. We're posting in this subreddit called

00:33:20.160 | Wall Street bats if you're not familiar, and they created a

00:33:23.040 | massive short squeeze and they sent the stock flying Robin Hood

00:33:26.040 | halted the trading member flag came on that one all went crazy.

00:33:28.800 | We covered that all. And then Keith Gill went silent for the

00:33:32.240 | past three years on Twitter and Reddit. He said nothing. Then on

00:33:35.720 | May 12, he posted this meme on x, which has been viewed 28

00:33:41.680 | million times. Now, if you don't know this meme, this is the lean

00:33:46.200 | forward mean when you've got a game controller in your hand, it

00:33:48.760 | is a way to signal like, hey, we're getting to the boss level,

00:33:52.240 | it's gonna get exciting. Here's your GameStop chart, folks. You

00:33:56.200 | see that first peak, that's when we reported on it back in 2021.

00:33:59.280 | And here we go again, it just had a slow ride down for three

00:34:02.440 | years and bink popped up again. So GameStop stock tripled at the

00:34:08.360 | posting of that meme. Why is this important? Well, he has a

00:34:12.960 | huge position, he increased it from 200,000 shares, basically

00:34:16.720 | to 5 million had 120,000 call options tomorrow. We'll comment

00:34:20.360 | on all this in a moment. If he exercised all these calls, still

00:34:25.000 | could own an additional 12 million shares. Here's Gary

00:34:27.800 | Gensler, who was on CNBC Wednesday trying to like, calm

00:34:33.000 | the markets down and or try to get control of this craziness.

00:34:36.520 | Here's the clip. I say to you look, I want to put up a I want

00:34:40.040 | to put up a cryptogram. And it's of a chair leaning up, which we

00:34:44.120 | know from video game playing means come on, this is the ninth

00:34:47.880 | inning, get ready. And we know that I'm a person who happens to

00:34:51.680 | like the stock of GameStop. This is the single Come on, get

00:34:55.480 | ready. Is this something hypothetically that is that the

00:34:59.000 | SEC should worry about?

00:35:00.080 | Look, again, it's not so hypothetical, because you're

00:35:03.400 | describing things that are in the public domain and in the

00:35:07.400 | public is, is, you know, interested in. So but generally

00:35:12.720 | speaking, you have to make sure that you don't mislead the

00:35:16.320 | public, and that you don't in any way, do things in the

00:35:20.680 | markets that may be manipulative or misleading. And so that's the

00:35:27.960 | key thing in our capital market.

00:35:29.800 | The key thing is, if you can cure it with disclosure, this is

00:35:32.840 | Brandeis, you know, if they disclose that this is something

00:35:35.920 | that they call action, then you can't go after them.

00:35:38.840 | Disclosure is one really key part of our capital markets.

00:35:43.400 | When you buy the stock of a company, you expect that they

00:35:46.520 | give you full and fair disclosure. That's, by the way,

00:35:49.840 | not what you're getting right now in this crypto field. So I

00:35:53.440 | just, you know, cautionary tale there, that disclosure, but

00:35:58.240 | disclosure doesn't necessarily protect a bad actor, if they're

00:36:03.320 | manipulating a market,

00:36:04.680 | Shama, you've been you've had a lot of comments on the markets

00:36:08.360 | and specifically this one over the years. What are your

00:36:11.600 | thoughts is posting this meme, stock manipulation or

00:36:15.400 | disclosure?

00:36:16.080 | No, it's he's posting a meme.

00:36:19.800 | Okay, thank you.

00:36:21.000 | He put a picture on the internet. Okay. I mean, that

00:36:25.560 | again, this is like the problem that we have, which is that he

00:36:30.320 | disclosed his position in a different way. Now, we don't

00:36:33.040 | know whether that disclosure is accurate, because I think it was

00:36:36.280 | just a screenshot of like some statement inside of a Reddit

00:36:39.880 | thread, right? And then that got posted many times elsewhere. Is

00:36:44.280 | this accurate? I don't know. Because he has no obligation as

00:36:48.480 | an individual to do any of this stuff. Because he's not running

00:36:52.400 | a hedge fund, and he's not running other people's money.

00:36:54.440 | Now, if he was acting in concert with other people, you could say,

00:37:00.240 | Hey, hold on a second, if you're repping not just your money, but

00:37:03.080 | other people's money, and you did this, then there's probably a

00:37:05.880 | disclosure obligation there. But at the end of the day, this is

00:37:09.000 | a guy that acted and basically created hype. And right now, the

00:37:20.840 | SEC does not have a framework to deal with that, because the

00:37:24.440 | rules that existed didn't understand social media and

00:37:27.480 | whatnot. And he's also not a regulated entity. He's just an

00:37:31.320 | individual. Now, if it turns out that he was selling while he was

00:37:35.520 | posting this stuff and trying to manipulate the market in some

00:37:39.120 | way, obviously, they could find issue with that. But just for

00:37:44.120 | him being a credible influencer, and creating momentum for an

00:37:51.680 | underlying position, that in and of itself is not illegal.

00:37:54.840 | Sacks, I think we have to go to judge sacks here. Judge sacks.

00:37:58.640 | What is your verdict? Our meme stock manipulation? Judge sacks?

00:38:01.800 | No, I don't see any manipulation there. Like Jamal studies is

00:38:05.320 | posting a meme. What you saw? Not guilty. What I see in that

00:38:08.920 | clip is Jim Cramer trying to stir up an SEC investigation of

00:38:13.640 | Keith Gill. For what? I mean, what exactly is he done here?

00:38:17.280 | This is kind of the Wall Street Journal as well. If you look at

00:38:19.680 | the Wall Street Journal today, there's an entire article

00:38:22.040 | basically with the headline is what Keith Gill is doing

00:38:25.360 | illegal. And I think you can view this in a different lens,

00:38:28.840 | which is, here is an individual that is totally outside of the

00:38:33.000 | establishment that however he's done it, has gotten a hold of

00:38:37.040 | hundreds of millions of dollars, maybe even now billions if the

00:38:40.840 | stock keeps going. And I think that that for the establishment

00:38:45.320 | that controls those pipes, very disconcerting.

00:38:49.560 | Right? If he if he was one of those apex predators on Wall

00:38:54.520 | Street, if he was one of those major hedge funds that donates a

00:38:57.200 | lot of money to the political elite, in other words, if he was

00:39:00.760 | a well connected political player, I doubt anyone would be

00:39:03.960 | asking these questions.

00:39:05.040 | For you got thoughts on this market manipulation or meme

00:39:10.200 | stonk, fun, good times, you're buying GameStop, you're paying

00:39:14.480 | EMC, like you buyer beware, you're you're in on the joke.

00:39:18.640 | What are your thoughts?

00:39:19.720 | Nick, can you pull up the image? I'm going to talk about the

00:39:22.080 | stupidity of buying the stock in this company. This is a company.

00:39:28.360 | And then I think we can talk about whether that's even

00:39:30.400 | relevant, which I think indication is that it's not.

00:39:35.360 | GameStop finished the year 2023 fiscal year, with sales of 5.3

00:39:45.760 | billion, down from 5.9 billion the year before. So sales

00:39:50.040 | declined by 12% in the year, adjusted $1 billion in revenue

00:39:54.120 | selling games, adjusted EBITDA for the year was $65 million.

00:39:57.720 | And they have about 1.2 billion in cash. Currently, as of today,

00:40:03.480 | the market cap is about 13 and a half billion dollars. So that

00:40:07.600 | makes it about a 12 and a half billion dollar enterprise value

00:40:10.320 | 12 and a half billion divided by 65 million of EBITDA means that

00:40:15.480 | this stock is currently trading at about 192 times EBITDA. A

00:40:20.280 | business that is profitable and you can say that the profits are

00:40:23.560 | stable and predictable and is likely not going to grow very

00:40:26.240 | much will typically trade for seven to 12 times EBITDA. And

00:40:30.120 | this stock is trading at 192 times EBITDA and the revenue is

00:40:32.960 | declining 12% a year. So I'll just point out like, I don't

00:40:37.320 | think that there's anything about the actual performance of

00:40:40.000 | the underlying business and the security that you are buying or

00:40:42.560 | selling when you are making a decision about whether or not to

00:40:45.120 | buy or sell the security. And I think that that's the real

00:40:47.920 | question. It does that even matter? Clearly, it doesn't. Let

00:40:51.760 | people have fun, let them go to Vegas, let them play in the

00:40:54.960 | roulette table, they know what they're getting into the

00:40:57.040 | disclosures are all there. All the SEC filings are there, all

00:41:00.280 | the financials of this business are there, what you're actually

00:41:02.920 | buying is publicly viewable, you can look at it, you can make an

00:41:06.160 | investment decision as an individual investor and trader,

00:41:09.800 | and you want to blow your money, trying to see when the social

00:41:12.960 | trends are going to shift one way or another. Let it be your

00:41:15.400 | decision.

00:41:15.920 | I think this is well said. If you're buying NFTs, if you're

00:41:20.600 | buying stonks like this, if you're playing poker in a, if

00:41:24.240 | you're playing bomb pots, look it up, folks, if you don't know

00:41:26.400 | what bomb pots are, and you're going crazy playing bomb pots

00:41:29.760 | for eight hours, like we did the other week, you're there to

00:41:32.240 | gamble. If you are playing bomb bots, this is the bomb pots of

00:41:37.120 | the stock market, have fun, go crazy. If you're buying NFTs, if

00:41:41.400 | you're buying crypto, and you know what you're getting into,

00:41:45.640 | there's no law, there's no law that defines why you should or

00:41:49.560 | should not buy a security with respect to the diligence you

00:41:52.920 | have individually done to determine whether the underlying

00:41:56.040 | business is worth the price you're paying. Yes, the law

00:41:58.960 | says that the businesses that are listing their securities for

00:42:02.400 | public trading have an obligation to make disclosures

00:42:04.640 | on their financials, and any other material events to the

00:42:07.040 | public. And they do that through the SEC filing process. That's

00:42:10.200 | all out there. And then what you as an individual do with it is

00:42:12.600 | up to you.

00:42:13.120 | Enough with the nanny state. Go ahead, sex.

00:42:15.440 | So when's the right time to put a short on this company?

00:42:18.240 | The stock is up 40% today. And then there's these reports that

00:42:25.800 | came out yesterday on a bunch of very big hedge funds that put

00:42:28.800 | very big short positions yesterday on the stock and it's

00:42:31.960 | up 40% today. Here we go to get margin call. So this is where

00:42:34.920 | you see the same thing that happened last time where what

00:42:37.040 | was that guy's name? The

00:42:37.960 | the capital?

00:42:39.680 | Melvin Melvin.

00:42:42.080 | Get

00:42:44.200 | out on the wrong side of this, you're gonna get plotkins.

00:42:49.440 | Don't get plotkin in a sour moochie. Yeah, that's what you

00:42:56.640 | don't want to do. Because you could lose it all in a sacra

00:42:59.120 | moochie or it's basically a game where, you know, the Redditors

00:43:02.360 | are they bid up? They bid up the stock? Yes, to levels that

00:43:06.960 | realistically, it's not worth that much disconnect. It's a

00:43:10.080 | big, it basically creates a short squeeze. So the stock

00:43:13.360 | flies up. Yeah. Then the hedge funds know it's overvalued. So

00:43:17.880 | they basically put new shorts on. Yeah. And then they do the

00:43:20.520 | next short squeeze.

00:43:21.400 | And they'll do something that's even more dangerous, which is

00:43:23.800 | they can get synthetically short. So they'll, they'll add

00:43:27.000 | leverage to this, using all kinds of esoteric derivatives

00:43:30.640 | that other banks on Wall Street will happily sell them. And then

00:43:33.800 | when those are disclosed, then the Redditors can just pump it

00:43:36.760 | even more, which causes massive margin call. So I think that I

00:43:40.320 | think the thing that Friedberg you're saying, though, this is

00:43:42.520 | this existential thing that comes back, it's happened in

00:43:45.160 | NF T's, it's happened in the dotcom bubble, it happened in

00:43:47.800 | SPACs, it's happened in crypto. Are we supposed to protect

00:43:51.800 | people? And then the question is, who is the we? And are you

00:43:57.080 | supposed to say, if you're an adult, and you can read, then

00:44:00.480 | read the disclosures, and you're on your own. That's what the SEC

00:44:03.480 | says. Yeah, and that's what the rule of law has been. And so

00:44:06.240 | this is going to be an interesting test, because

00:44:07.840 | instead of an organization, it's going to be a person in this

00:44:12.520 | case, Keith Gill, who will be the face of what happens to the

00:44:15.240 | stock, because if a bunch of people all of a sudden, plow

00:44:18.040 | into this thing, and then it goes to five, it'll be really

00:44:21.760 | interesting to see the reaction, hey, you should have saved us,

00:44:24.360 | how could this happen? You know, he dumped this on all of us. And

00:44:27.680 | the answer is no, he did not. Where was the government to save

00:44:30.440 | our day? Where's the government to protect consumers? That's

00:44:32.760 | not with the nanny state. That's the next cycle of the story. The

00:44:35.720 | next cycle of the story is no, the government. Yeah. And you

00:44:38.920 | showed how the government protected everybody, which was

00:44:41.120 | you showed the revenue, and the profits and the margins, which

00:44:44.000 | is publicly available.

00:44:45.480 | And you did it in two minutes. I mean, anybody, anybody can look

00:44:49.320 | at your analysis and see,

00:44:51.080 | you didn't even use a sophisticated model, you use

00:44:53.400 | probably the calculator app on your frickin Mac to figure out

00:44:56.160 | that it was 192.

00:44:57.160 | No, no, I'm sure he used the calculator app. So you actually

00:45:04.520 | have the SEO. The whole point is, you can figure out that

00:45:07.600 | there's no logical justification for this company using one

00:45:11.000 | Google search and the calculator app on your Mac. Yeah. It's on

00:45:15.240 | you. I think the question is, should we make all sports

00:45:18.520 | betting legal and all online casinos legal? So if you follow

00:45:21.200 | this to its natural conclusion, let people do what they want.

00:45:24.320 | Why are all of the other gambling industries so tightly

00:45:27.400 | regulated? I think there's a difference. Well, because we

00:45:31.160 | need a stock market, we need we need the ability for companies

00:45:33.960 | to go public. It just so happens that you can get this weird

00:45:37.840 | effect where some stocks can become meme stocks. But that

00:45:42.120 | doesn't mean you want to design the entire system of securities

00:45:46.880 | laws around one or two meme stocks. The fact of the matter

00:45:51.200 | is that investors are sufficiently protected by robust

00:45:55.320 | disclosure requirements that apparently GameStop has

00:45:59.160 | followed. All that information is out there. You basically

00:46:02.560 | dismantled the company in like two minutes. So anyone watching

00:46:06.040 | this show has all the information they need not to buy

00:46:08.880 | this stock at 190 times earnings, okay, if they choose

00:46:13.560 | to follow that information.

00:46:15.640 | The other thing that you're saying, which is really

00:46:17.920 | important is you have to remember what the capital

00:46:20.240 | markets and the stock market is therefore it's not meant for

00:46:22.720 | this. This is a small little cul de sac. But the overwhelming

00:46:27.200 | majority of the capital markets and the equity markets is to

00:46:29.680 | allocate excess capital to good ideas. That's what is usually

00:46:33.760 | happening. There's a bunch of us that will put a bunch of our

00:46:37.360 | money into things because we think it's the right thing to

00:46:40.200 | do. And that is the overwhelming majority of what is happening

00:46:44.000 | in the stock market every day. And David's right every now and

00:46:46.360 | then one of these things randomly comes up. And every

00:46:49.680 | period of time, there'll be a few parts of the market that go

00:46:53.120 | crazy. But the reality is that's not what the overwhelming

00:46:56.320 | majority of the actions and that's not why the security

00:46:59.160 | solution.

00:46:59.520 | Have you guys seen this guy? His name is Tim Nackey on

00:47:02.720 | Instagram. So what this guy did, this guy's incredible. So this

00:47:06.640 | guy went out. And he basically bet 10 cents and online blackjack

00:47:11.360 | because he's legally allowed to do it where he lives. I think

00:47:13.240 | he's in Australia or something. Oh, yeah, that's 10 cents for

00:47:15.880 | every follower he has on Instagram. So over the last

00:47:18.360 | couple of months, he's been right. Yeah, he's been racking

00:47:20.880 | and racking up the bets. And he ended up doing these $100,000

00:47:24.160 | plus bets because he got over a million followers. He ran this

00:47:27.120 | thing up to over a million bucks and he quit. But it's it's now

00:47:29.880 | he's formed like a blackjack syndicate. So everyone wants to

00:47:32.120 | kind of pile in and bet with him. I think that there's this

00:47:34.880 | really interesting phenomenon of like social betting. Everyone

00:47:37.800 | wants to be in a group together. He's got hundreds of 1000s of

00:47:40.400 | people that have put money in this is so great. And then he

00:47:42.560 | goes and does this online gambling. Nick pulled the video

00:47:44.520 | up. I just say you watch how this guy and he's so

00:47:46.560 | entertaining. He's awesome. Oh, man. This is this could be

00:47:49.080 | deadly for sacks. sacks didn't know about this.

00:47:51.160 | blackjack and betting 10 cents for every Instagram follower.

00:47:54.840 | I've got there are 940,000 of your weapons with us now. So a

00:47:58.480 | $94,000 bet coming right up.

00:48:00.760 | Alrighty, ladies and gentlemen, we have a $94,000 on the line

00:48:07.720 | for the 940,000 of your weapons with us 90 on the button. Okay,

00:48:11.480 | each of the side bits this bloke definitely gloves up both hands

00:48:14.600 | on the golf course never has such an impact on my life. I'm not

00:48:19.200 | healthy for gross seven versus six. There might be a double

00:48:25.200 | down. There might be doubling down. I'll take three.

00:48:29.760 | That's a double down. Double down. Yeah, yeah, definitely

00:48:33.800 | double down. God damn you go change for me here. Of course

00:48:36.560 | we're counting cars again. I will see you tomorrow you smug

00:48:59.400 | son. Oh my god. This is so great. This guy is so good.

00:49:03.760 | sacks. Do you know about this?

00:49:05.240 | That's some serious degeneracy. It looks so fun, though.

00:49:08.080 | There's only one a day. Oh my god.

00:49:15.680 | And every day his follower count goes up. So every day he bets

00:49:18.760 | more. And then you're following he ran this thing up to a

00:49:20.960 | million a profit. Oh, so good. I haven't seen sacks this awake

00:49:24.280 | during the pod. You don't get the 10 cents. He keeps it from

00:49:26.920 | so he started this just by betting his own money. And he

00:49:29.760 | would put 10 cents down every day for how many followers he

00:49:32.200 | had. Okay, he he started betting more and more of his own money.

00:49:35.080 | account that he can but I'm saying is it still all of his

00:49:38.560 | money that he's betting? So then as of a few weeks ago, or like

00:49:41.440 | a two weeks ago, he stopped betting his own money. He took

00:49:43.840 | the million off the table. He called it a day and he set up a

00:49:45.800 | syndicate. And now people send their own money in and he's

00:49:48.080 | betting the syndicates money. And he does one hand a day and

00:49:52.200 | he keeps racking this thing up. It's just but what happens when

00:49:55.720 | he loses? Is there a day where he's lost a lot of money? Oh,

00:49:57.760 | dude, you gotta watch it. Man. It's so I want to see what

00:50:01.000 | happens when he loses like this is great. Can we hit the sky at

00:50:03.480 | the all in summit online blackjack? Right. So there's

00:50:07.840 | always like a fake dealer. And he has all this hilarious

00:50:10.360 | commentary.

00:50:10.880 | Let's set up an account right now. I'll be honest with you.

00:50:15.800 | This may get me back on Instagram.

00:50:17.440 | This is so juicy. Ah, we should get this guy out to the summit.

00:50:22.440 | This guy's got to come to the summit and do a live hand with

00:50:24.880 | Mr. He's big, big shout out. Is he on tiktok or no just I think

00:50:28.160 | he only does Insta. Yeah, Tim Knack. I haven't seen sacks

00:50:31.320 | listen to Freeberg on this podcast more than he just did.

00:50:34.520 | That was incredible. You got sacks his attention. sacks. Did

00:50:38.200 | you know you could play live online blackjack from your phone?

00:50:41.640 | You know this tonight? Did I know that? This is important

00:50:45.600 | information for all of us.

00:50:46.600 | Big day coming up. There is 514,000 of you in email and a

00:50:51.120 | $51,400 bid coming up. All right, day 60 a monumental day.

00:50:55.960 | We can hit the 50k button here. We will do $50,000. $800 on the

00:51:02.800 | 21 plus three $600 on the perfect peers. This is by far

00:51:07.960 | and away the biggest bet I have put on a table in my life. We're

00:51:11.720 | trying to itch ourselves into gambling immortality. 14 plays

00:51:16.320 | three. No. Oh, it's a disgusting pull on day 60 with all the

00:51:21.960 | marbles on the line. We will stand and look for 10 10 and

00:51:26.120 | bust 10 10 and bust. 10 10 and bust. Come on. 10 10 10 heroics

00:51:30.920 | to be a hero. Yes. Yes. Yes. Day 60. Stick that in your pipe.

00:51:37.400 | Holy. Oh my god. We've broken the push streak with the

00:51:45.320 | adventures of 10 10. And you better believe that means I'll

00:51:48.680 | see you tomorrow. And I'll be betting even more. This guy's

00:51:52.080 | got great energy. Can he do one live on the show next week? Oh,

00:51:55.280 | day 55. Oh, here we go. Instagram follower I've got

00:51:58.200 | outrageously. There is an extra 21,000 of you in here today. So

00:52:01.920 | $37,600 bit going on for the 376,000 of you legends in here

00:52:07.120 | now. Coming right up. Okay. Day 55 brings about a big I don't

00:52:12.120 | like this deal. We have $36,000 on the button 1000. And $600 on

00:52:18.960 | the perfect peers that D 7.6 k total bits are closed. We've

00:52:23.320 | just had a goddamn dealer change. We've been duped here.

00:52:26.000 | I'm cool. I'm cool.

00:52:26.840 | plays a 12 v king. Oh my god before I before I hit the hit

00:52:36.520 | button. I will say this having talked to the morning rumble

00:52:39.160 | this morning. Last time I spoke to the media about this journey.

00:52:43.080 | I broke a six day winning streak that day and I lost so if it

00:52:46.080 | happens again today, this one's on Roger Farrelly. We need to

00:52:49.280 | see eight or nine go low. No. Oh my god. Come on that dealer

00:52:55.000 | change was so good. I guess you just can't win them all. But

00:52:59.400 | we've been and I will see you tomorrow. When we'll be bidding

00:53:03.600 | even more that dealer change was so dirty. You saw the dealer

00:53:06.400 | change at the last minute he came up and they changed the dealer.

00:53:08.920 | They asked me before I've been with you and they do that every

00:53:13.360 | time with you start running it up. They send in the dealer to

00:53:16.000 | ice you. I think there's a particular dealer they've got.

00:53:19.040 | You know, they do. It's like in the bullpen. The blank cooler.

00:53:22.600 | Yeah, we know the one the black cooler. I don't want to say

00:53:25.680 | anything but it's the cooler. We need this guy next week on the

00:53:28.840 | pod to do the live bet and then we each give them 5k. How about

00:53:32.200 | that? You guys in I've had them trot out the cooler. When I was

00:53:35.680 | playing craps once, I was so mad. And I was on such a heater.

00:53:40.080 | And what happens is, you guys have seen me play craps where

00:53:44.040 | it's like it's all rhythm, right? So it's like, yes, I get

00:53:46.400 | the dice in a certain way. Yeah, you know, I do. They bring in

00:53:50.600 | this guy. And he was like a clutch. It's like Daniel Day

00:53:54.000 | Lewis in my left foot. All of a sudden he's everything over for

00:53:58.760 | dice fall off the table. I got so out of rhythm. It was so I was

00:54:04.040 | so I want this guy in the pod next week. We're each putting

00:54:06.440 | five dimes in we got 20k from all in. Let's do it. That would

00:54:10.600 | be so much. Oh my god, we should get him to play a special all in

00:54:13.400 | hand and let him run up our capital on the summit. Let's

00:54:16.920 | take the profits from the summit and do a live hand. We could put

00:54:19.960 | like a million bucks each on it. We double up and then we're done

00:54:22.880 | with the pod. We don't have to do a summit next year. Really

00:54:25.040 | good idea. Let's do it. Let's let it roll. All right. God,

00:54:30.200 | this is so much action for us. I don't know if we can continue

00:54:32.760 | but there's more stories to come. And just buyer beware. I

00:54:36.720 | mean, if you're betting on this stuff, I mean, what do we have

00:54:39.240 | to tell you if you're betting on GameStop?

00:54:41.040 | We don't have to tell you anything. You're an adult.

00:54:43.080 | You're an adult. Go to your own job. Well, here's something

00:54:46.400 | really interesting. Seatbelt. Don't drink and drive. Don't use

00:54:52.120 | drugs. I mean, it's like, all of a sudden, like we need to

00:54:54.600 | govern how you're not a functioning adult.

00:54:57.080 | By the way, if you swim in Cape Cod alone in the deep water in

00:55:01.400 | the kelp, you might get hit by a great white shark.

00:55:03.600 | Or do whatever you want. And please just take responsibility

00:55:06.280 | for yourself. It's not our job. Absolutely. And I'm responsible

00:55:08.880 | for my children, not you.

00:55:10.040 | Well, I mean, also, it's, I just want to ask one question here.

00:55:13.800 | Is there anything with the short selling that could there could

00:55:16.080 | be more disclosure on that trim off that just if the SEC was

00:55:19.080 | going to do something, I hear that bubble up once in a while,

00:55:21.400 | should be more disclosed.

00:55:23.440 | I really think that's a very good idea. I do think that there

00:55:26.120 | are some short sellers who are doing it because they have to

00:55:29.120 | hedge a position that they have. But then there are other short

00:55:32.160 | sellers who are doing it speculatively. And there are

00:55:34.280 | synthetic instruments that banks will sell you to go massively

00:55:38.240 | super short. That's how you can get a situation where 140% of

00:55:42.000 | the stock is sold short, which doesn't shouldn't make sense. If

00:55:44.320 | there's only 100 shares of a company, how could it be that

00:55:47.720 | 140 shares are sold short, it's because you can have these

00:55:50.120 | synthetic

00:55:50.640 | expensive static for the audience, because I don't think

00:55:52.640 | people know this concept.

00:55:53.680 | So there are ways where if you have a formal trading

00:55:58.960 | relationship with Wall Street, and you need to be of a certain

00:56:01.880 | size, and they go through a diligence process, they give

00:56:04.160 | you so you know, I have one called an ISDA. And it's

00:56:07.480 | essentially an account and a framework that you negotiate

00:56:10.640 | with a bank that allows you to call them and say, Hey, give me

00:56:14.720 | a B or C. And other times they'll call you and say, Hey, I

00:56:17.640 | have this really interesting way to play XYZ. And one of the

00:56:22.200 | things that you can do with them is you can say, Listen, I want

00:56:25.520 | to go super, super long, or super, super short, a theme or a

00:56:30.000 | company. And they'll create a contract with between you and

00:56:33.520 | them. That'll allow you to get that kind of exposure. Now,

00:56:39.200 | you're not supposed to do that on a regular basis, nor are you

00:56:42.840 | supposed to lever this up. This is actually what blew up a

00:56:45.360 | different hedge fund called archaic goes, I remember we

00:56:48.920 | covered it. And in that, I guess what happened was, the gentleman

00:56:53.520 | was calling many banks and doing all these things. And one bank

00:56:57.400 | didn't know what the other bank was doing. So all of a sudden,

00:56:59.520 | there was this massive synthetic leverage that he was getting on,

00:57:04.040 | I think it was news Corp stock. And then they found out that it

00:57:06.920 | was unwound, then he owed a bunch of money, he couldn't pay

00:57:09.200 | it, the whole thing shut down, the stock market went crazy. So

00:57:12.640 | so no way that disclosure, but there isn't a rule that says

00:57:15.680 | that. And every time somebody tries to introduce it, the

00:57:18.840 | broker dealers basically lobby and kill it.

00:57:20.880 | So in a way, it's almost like a parallel universe where bets are

00:57:24.720 | occurring on outcomes in the stock market that are not tied

00:57:28.640 | to the stocks in the stock market.

00:57:30.200 | Well, it is tied in the sense that ultimately, it all needs to

00:57:32.680 | feed back to an actual physical share. So this is where all this

00:57:36.800 | price behavior gets further amplified. I think the point is

00:57:39.360 | that these forms of expressing risk, yes, can really amplify

00:57:43.240 | what would otherwise happen. So when freebirds example, most

00:57:46.560 | people would sit there get the financials. Some would maybe say

00:57:50.960 | historically, this thing looks like a short or I wouldn't even

00:57:53.800 | buy it at all, right. But other people may say, Well, if I

00:57:57.000 | listened to the chairman, and I think about the future, maybe I

00:57:59.560 | go long, that's a, that's a fine thing, you can enter the stock

00:58:02.600 | market and do that. But all this other stuff amplifies all these

00:58:05.800 | things to a degree that we're not really used to.

00:58:07.440 | And let's be honest, the people who are betting, I'll use the

00:58:11.600 | word betting here, the people who are betting on these things

00:58:14.200 | are not looking to get a 7% return or beat the average. I

00:58:17.880 | mean, they're looking to double their money in 48 hours. They

00:58:21.040 | know what they're getting in for, they're just walking up to

00:58:23.000 | the roulette table and putting 10k on black or red, and then

00:58:26.280 | clapping and seeing five reds in a row and saying, Oh, it's got

00:58:29.840 | to be black next. I mean, they're Phil Helmy within this.

00:58:32.120 | They don't say that when they lose them. No, of course not.

00:58:35.120 | Yeah, no, no personal ownership here. Well, here's an

00:58:37.000 | interesting thing that's sort of related a little bit of

00:58:39.680 | jurisdiction shopping or placing of companies and products

00:58:45.440 | continues in Texas is very hot in this regard. BlackRock and

00:58:49.160 | Citadel are backing new stock, a new stock exchange take on the

00:58:53.180 | New York Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ duopoly. So according to

00:58:56.240 | the Wall Street Journal, the exchange would be based in Texas

00:58:58.280 | and called the Texas Stock Exchange or the TX s e, they've

00:59:02.400 | raised 120 million so far, it seems like a low number. And the

00:59:05.340 | general pitch here is the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ

00:59:09.280 | have become expensive, and they've been increasing their

00:59:12.600 | compliance costs. NASDAQ has a new board of diversity target

00:59:16.440 | that went into effect at the start of this year, all the DEI

00:59:19.000 | stuff. And so this exchange is pitching itself as a CEO

00:59:22.420 | friendly, and the anti woke exchange. So here's the plan

00:59:26.440 | timeline file and FCC registration docs later this

00:59:29.000 | year start facilitating trades next year, post the first new

00:59:32.240 | listing in 2026. Interesting, I guess that Citadel and Black

00:59:35.800 | Rock are in this group, because they can bring a lot of

00:59:38.300 | business, obviously. And you know, some of this other stuff

00:59:41.280 | that's been going on with Texas, Texas is now Tesla's corporate

00:59:44.480 | headquarters, they moved to Palo Alto in California, Texas in in

00:59:48.000 | 2021. Your thoughts here, Chamath on movie love it. Okay,

00:59:52.720 | why? Why do you love it so much to tell competition?

00:59:56.160 | I do think that it's hard right now for companies to get access

01:00:02.320 | to capital. I think more diverse and more flexible ways where

01:00:08.460 | smart investors can allocate their money into the ideas that

01:00:11.700 | they want are better. I think that the duopoly hasn't created

01:00:16.540 | enough competition. So the NASDAQ and, and New York Stock

01:00:19.500 | Exchange haven't innovated. And in fact, they've, they've

01:00:22.340 | probably been a little regressive. In terms of filing

01:00:26.820 | requirements, listing requirements in terms of board

01:00:29.260 | composition, they've fallen for a bunch of things that don't

01:00:33.620 | actually point to the economic rationale or value in a company.

01:00:37.820 | And so I think if you have a third player, there's a chance

01:00:42.020 | that more competition will create more rational behavior,

01:00:44.780 | which will flow into the companies themselves. So I'm a

01:00:49.220 | huge fan of this. I think that the the stock exchanges right

01:00:52.220 | now are too brittle, because and there's and that large reason is

01:00:56.460 | because there's only two of them.

01:00:57.660 | Freeberg, any thoughts for you about more options?

01:01:01.260 | Well, I think part of this is actually there's been these

01:01:05.180 | rules imposed by NASDAQ and New York Stock Exchange that have

01:01:12.740 | tried to enforce upon the listed companies, rules and regulations

01:01:17.540 | that are not tied to securities laws, including some of these

01:01:22.020 | aspects of diversity of your board. And I know that there

01:01:24.980 | have been a lot of public company, board members, and CEOs

01:01:29.940 | that have quietly tried to push back on these rules, that

01:01:33.220 | they're imposing social systems upon, you know, what is

01:01:36.900 | effectively a regulated exchange. And so there's

01:01:39.940 | certainly like an interest in a pushing for a competitive

01:01:42.860 | marketplace for exchanges. There was a survey done recently that

01:01:46.220 | showed I got to find some of this data, but it showed the

01:01:49.260 | cost of going public on NASDAQ, Amex or the New York Stock

01:01:52.940 | Exchange was about $7.4 million. Cost of going public through an

01:01:57.260 | over the counter bulletin board listing service was about $2

01:01:59.780 | million. And then there's these additional kind of rules that

01:02:03.380 | are being imposed if you want to be listed on the big boards. So

01:02:06.540 | clearly, there's interest and it's great to see a competitive

01:02:08.940 | market emerge, you know, how there have, by the way, there

01:02:11.700 | have been other attempts. There's that long term stock

01:02:14.500 | exchange, you guys remember that a couple years ago, that was

01:02:16.620 | incentivized long term holdings. There was two other equity

01:02:21.900 | security exchanges, efforts made in the last couple of years that

01:02:24.660 | didn't take off. So this isn't super novel in terms of like

01:02:28.180 | seeing a new challenger exchange step up, but I think more

01:02:32.780 | competition is always better.

01:02:33.900 | All right. In other news, Apple and OpenAI have reportedly

01:02:37.260 | struck an iPhone deal. According to Bloomberg, Apple is going to

01:02:40.380 | announce a major partnership with OpenAI at WWDC next week

01:02:43.420 | chat GPT will be integrated into iOS, which means Apple is

01:02:47.460 | outsourcing its AI chatbot at least at the start. I guess

01:02:51.860 | you could argue it benefits both sides because OpenAI gets access

01:02:54.660 | to over a billion phone users and Apple gets a native

01:02:56.940 | integration of a top tier language model. Terms are not

01:03:01.260 | clear. But most people think this is going to be a short to

01:03:04.340 | midterm deal with Apple building out its own AI chatbot in the

01:03:08.460 | future, but it's just not ready for primetime right now also

01:03:11.180 | plans to make Siri AI powered and bring AI features to the

01:03:13.900 | Apple ecosystem. You have heard that Apple is going to try to

01:03:17.420 | let Siri dive deeper into apps, ie if you're ordering your

01:03:21.980 | DoorDash or Uber Eats or an Uber or Lyft or whatever, it might

01:03:25.900 | actually be able to execute those things inside of an app.

01:03:29.460 | Interesting line from the article, Apple executives were

01:03:32.100 | concerned about reputational damage from a rogue chatbot.

01:03:34.980 | Some people within Apple have a philosophical aversion to having

01:03:38.980 | a chatbot at all very interesting. So thoughts on

01:03:44.220 | this sacks, just getting you back in the loop here.

01:03:47.220 | Well, we kind of predicted that something like this could or

01:03:50.660 | should happen. We said that the big win for Apple in AI would be

01:03:55.140 | to make Siri actually work based on LLM because Siri just, you

01:04:00.380 | know, it's understanding of languages historically has not

01:04:02.940 | been great. And that's really limited the usefulness of it.

01:04:05.620 | Imagine if Siri worked with the conversational abilities of chat

01:04:10.500 | GPT 4.0. If it had that level of semantic understanding, if it

01:04:13.820 | could talk to you, the way that 4.0 can talk to you, that would

01:04:18.180 | make Siri really powerful. And you know, for me, Siri is a

01:04:22.180 | feature I've turned off because it's so annoying, but

01:04:24.300 | sucks, right? Never works.

01:04:26.460 | If you give it the power of the best open AI model, and then the

01:04:32.020 | speed of running it natively on the iPhone, I don't know what

01:04:34.740 | they're going to do about that. But presumably, there are things

01:04:37.020 | they can do to speed it up. And then you give it access to the

01:04:41.940 | internal API's you're using to control apps. That would be

01:04:45.620 | really powerful. You could be an agent that you can just tell it

01:04:49.860 | to do things. And you know, not just ask like the weather and

01:04:53.420 | the time and set alarms.

01:04:54.660 | Well, what's really interesting, I think about this deal chamath

01:04:58.220 | is Apple is having a hard time getting people to upgrade their

01:05:01.740 | phones, right? And people have lost faith in the stock. Now you

01:05:04.980 | say, hey, we're going to put a language model on here, you can

01:05:07.660 | make it a local language model, and have it be privacy

01:05:11.260 | protected. So that means you need more memory on the phone,

01:05:14.460 | you're going to need another chip on the phone, it's going to

01:05:16.660 | there's a distinct reason to upgrade. Now, if you had a

01:05:20.540 | language model on your phone, and Siri was like this super

01:05:23.140 | Siri, that actually got stuff done, I would upgrade my phone

01:05:26.700 | immediately. And right now I skipped two or three

01:05:28.820 | generations. What are your thoughts on this as a way to

01:05:31.380 | maybe reinvigorate the iPhone franchise tomorrow? You buy it

01:05:34.540 | or not? No, the problem is that we don't know what the right

01:05:38.700 | form factor for a super scaled consumer AI app looks like. So

01:05:45.300 | we've all again, I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. It's just

01:05:48.340 | that when you look at what's built and built so far, I think

01:05:50.820 | most of the things we've seen are the Friendster and my spaces

01:05:57.380 | of this class of app. We haven't seen the Facebook's and the

01:06:02.100 | Instagram's yet. And the reason is because we haven't

01:06:05.420 | experimented and push the boundaries of the form factor.

01:06:09.220 | So for example, in the first phases of social networking, the

01:06:14.820 | idea that you would collect information about all your

01:06:17.420 | friends and then create something called a newsfeed was

01:06:20.060 | totally shocking. And I remember when we first released that

01:06:24.140 | people got really upset. And then it just became this de

01:06:26.860 | facto. Why were they upset about it? Tell me? Well, it's this

01:06:30.460 | idea that you collected this information, and then you

01:06:32.700 | presented it about all of your friends was disconcerting in

01:06:35.660 | the shot as a feature. Now, if you don't have a newsfeed of

01:06:38.340 | some kind in your app, for many apps, it's do a right. So the

01:06:42.740 | same problem exists today. All we've done today is we've

01:06:45.940 | replicated an existing use case with a slightly better feature

01:06:51.260 | here or there. Nobody has gone out and said on a blank canvas,

01:06:56.060 | let me completely reimagine how consumers want value with these

01:07:01.300 | things to enable it. And until that happens, we're just

01:07:04.860 | wasting time. So the idea that Apple with this $1,000 device is

01:07:08.340 | all of a sudden going to figure out that this is why you're

01:07:10.620 | going to upgrade, I think is pretty speculative. And I think

01:07:14.140 | they're going to be disappointed. I think people

01:07:15.780 | have realized that four generations ago was more than

01:07:19.580 | enough. And on top of this, the stuff that you value inside the

01:07:24.900 | iPhone is not what you're going to need for AI. So spending a

01:07:30.420 | trillion billion dollars on the fourth camera lens is not going

01:07:35.420 | to be what solves this problem. And so you're more likely to

01:07:40.780 | have a very simple earbud that is, you know, very

01:07:43.860 | inconspicuous and discreetly in your inner ear. Well, speaking

01:07:47.860 | information to you, then you are and with a companion $500 phone,

01:07:52.420 | then I think you will be with a 1500. You're in the new form

01:07:55.780 | factor, I am going to take the other side of the cap, I think

01:07:58.420 | that because you have this data on your phone, all your

01:08:01.060 | iMessages, all your documents, all your photos, videos, music

01:08:04.580 | collection, there's a unique set of data on that phone to make

01:08:07.460 | your personal LLM, that's going to do extraordinary things for

01:08:10.500 | you, because it's going to watch you and all your behavior on

01:08:13.020 | that phone. And man, if I can have a personal LLM that's been

01:08:15.860 | watching me order very specific sushi rolls, or, you know, where

01:08:19.860 | I send my ubers, what type of ubers I like what music I play,

01:08:23.060 | I feel like that LLM don't need to be deep. My point is, you

01:08:26.220 | don't need a $1500 device to do that. So if you know, but it's

01:08:29.020 | I'm talking about data set. So cool. Don't you? Uber has the

01:08:34.020 | data. DoorDash has the data. No, no, you're missing my point.

01:08:36.780 | The data of me clicking on the screen, that is not apples to

01:08:40.940 | collect. It's not there. I think they'll collect it, put it in

01:08:44.300 | there, you would have to encrypt have to fundamentally change the

01:08:46.740 | SDK. The idea then that Apple can take a tax on that is

01:08:49.780 | outrageous. I think the whole app economy would blow up if

01:08:53.420 | Apple tried to do that.

01:08:54.300 | I think it's the opposite. I think the app economy would

01:08:56.260 | thrive. You'd be have this a great thing where I could tell

01:08:58.180 | it order the same thing I ordered on door.

01:08:59.540 | Apple to try to change the terms of service and see what happens.

01:09:02.580 | Okay, freeberg your thoughts on this. Any thoughts? No. Okay,

01:09:05.980 | well, let's get to this. It's time for science corner

01:09:08.540 | temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean are alarmingly high.

01:09:11.340 | freeberg. A couple weeks ago, we saw this crazy chart on the X

01:09:15.460 | about the Atlantic Ocean temperatures, pre Hurricane

01:09:19.020 | Katrina right about now and take us through this because it's

01:09:22.780 | very disconcerting.

01:09:24.100 | There's not much to talk about except to highlight this image

01:09:28.700 | which shows again, we talked about this a few months ago, hot

01:09:33.420 | ocean temperatures drive hurricane and tropical storm

01:09:36.740 | activity because as the wind, the air above the ocean starts

01:09:40.500 | to move, the energy from the ocean gets pulled out, you know,

01:09:45.220 | like things cool down, the water cools down, but that energy

01:09:48.140 | actually goes back into pushing the wind to move faster and

01:09:51.660 | faster. And that's how tropical storms, cyclones, and hurricanes

01:09:55.780 | are formed is warm ocean temperatures. And there's been

01:10:00.300 | this kind of persistent warming since last year in the Atlantic,

01:10:04.820 | in this particular region, where all the hurricanes form. And

01:10:09.300 | normally the hurricane season starts kind of call it August to

01:10:12.140 | October. Right now we are seeing temperatures that are so far

01:10:16.260 | beyond what we've seen. Anytime historically, this image that

01:10:20.500 | you're looking at here actually compares the ocean temperatures

01:10:23.260 | right now in the Atlantic, to where we were at the same time

01:10:26.500 | period in 2005, which was a record hurricane year, obviously

01:10:30.740 | with Hurricane Katrina, right? Yeah. And so their National

01:10:34.380 | Hurricane Center, a lot of the climatologists are forecasting

01:10:37.380 | that over the next couple of months, we could see and should

01:10:40.780 | expect to see probabilistically, much larger, stronger, bigger,

01:10:45.380 | more frequent hurricanes than we've ever seen historically. So

01:10:47.780 | we'll see if it plays out. Just a very small tidbit of news to

01:10:50.660 | share, thought it'd be worth highlighting, not getting a lot

01:10:53.380 | of main mainstream media press attention. But, you know,

01:10:56.420 | certainly,

01:10:57.220 | to just confirm a couple of things for me, because we live

01:10:59.940 | in a time where people are questioning science and

01:11:02.220 | scientists, and we have institutions we don't trust,

01:11:05.620 | whether it's three letter agencies in Washington, or

01:11:08.740 | scientists and all these papers being written and everything

01:11:11.100 | we're finding out and nobody trusts anybody. And we're sort

01:11:14.180 | of resetting trust. I want to just ask you as somebody I trust

01:11:17.500 | as a scientist, number one, global warming, temperatures

01:11:21.300 | increasing, putting aside, you know what we do about it

01:11:23.900 | temperatures in the ocean, it is undeniable are increasing at a

01:11:27.740 | rate that you would describe as concerning. Am I correct?

01:11:31.100 | We have not seen in the modern era, temperatures in the ocean

01:11:36.620 | like we're seeing now, that's a fact, right? I'm not going to do

01:11:40.220 | this whole big prognosis on everything all in one, because I

01:11:43.580 | think that's where people feel like there's room for

01:11:45.820 | discrediting things. I'm trying to so we can do this. Yeah, we

01:11:48.540 | can be very specific about things. Here's an example. So

01:11:50.980 | this is the sea surface temperature going back to 1981.

01:11:54.020 | Okay. And as you can see, at this point in the year, and you

01:11:57.660 | know, the temperature oscillates because of the way the earth

01:12:00.180 | tilts towards the sun. And so at this point in the year, we are

01:12:05.100 | seeing right now, sea surface temperatures that are beyond

01:12:08.260 | anything we've seen, historically, and it is

01:12:10.380 | continuing to climb. So if this does not taper off or level off,

01:12:15.220 | we will see record sea surface temperatures in the August to

01:12:19.060 | October timeframe, which will almost certainly push massive

01:12:22.540 | hurricane events out of the Atlantic, and they will find

01:12:25.940 | their way towards the continent.

01:12:27.020 | So this is super clarifying, this should not be controversial

01:12:29.940 | to anybody, we have temperature readings in the ocean, and

01:12:32.700 | just data, data, it's just simply data, right. So you know,

01:12:35.900 | putting aside what political party you on and what you think

01:12:38.220 | about gas and oil, I will tell you, there's a lot of theory,

01:12:40.260 | one of one of the theories. So there's theories about El Nino,

01:12:43.220 | there's theories about climate change contributing to this.

01:12:45.620 | There's also a theory about sulfur dioxide, that has now

01:12:49.380 | been banned in shipping and cargo vessels that go across the

01:12:53.900 | oceans. Last year, they banned sulfur dioxide use in the fuel

01:12:58.020 | that that's coming out of these, and sulfur dioxide actually

01:13:00.700 | reflect sunlight. So as it goes up into the air, into the

01:13:03.540 | atmosphere coming out of these ships, it actually blocks and

01:13:06.220 | reflects light.

01:13:06.940 | So that would make the oceans cooler.

01:13:08.500 | And so a lot of folks have said that over the last couple of

01:13:11.980 | decades, we've actually dampened the temperature and the warming

01:13:15.860 | that's happened on earth because of all the sulfur dioxide we've

01:13:18.380 | been putting up into the atmosphere. But because sulfur

01:13:20.700 | dioxide causes acid rain, environmentalists have been

01:13:24.060 | pushing for years to ban sulfur dioxide. The problem is with

01:13:27.820 | banning sulfur dioxide, you may have this other side effect,

01:13:30.380 | which is now more rapid increased warming got of the

01:13:33.820 | surface and of the oceans.

01:13:35.180 | So these are complex systems, and you we should be delicate

01:13:39.140 | with them. If you were to give us a prescription here,

01:13:42.740 | freeberg. What's like a basic prescription? Are we just

01:13:46.940 | experimenting in a way that is not advisable with, you know,

01:13:52.940 | this ecosystem? And we should just not run the experiment. I

01:13:57.900 | think that might be like a non political non charged way to say

01:14:01.020 | it. Like, this experiment is a little bit too crazy to run on

01:14:04.420 | the one planet Earth we have. Yeah. Which experiment? The

01:14:07.660 | experiment of doing things that increase global warming, which

01:14:11.980 | would be you mean living? Well, yeah, I mean, not burning

01:14:16.660 | fossil fuels. People are just acting in their own economic

01:14:19.860 | best interest. Yes. And if that economic best interest increases

01:14:23.580 | temperature so much. I think there's a freeberg that it will

01:14:27.660 | compromise the oceans and damage them to a point that would be

01:14:31.100 | extremely concerning is I guess what I'm getting at.

01:14:33.100 | There is a reduction in biodiversity that's underway. We

01:14:35.740 | can see that, like using data, but to Chamath's point, humans

01:14:41.180 | have prioritized the progression of individuals forward. China

01:14:46.700 | had a billion people that came out of poverty in 30 years.

01:14:49.260 | Yeah. And they came out of poverty because of the

01:14:51.740 | industrialization, making production of consumable goods,

01:14:55.620 | that that population gets to consume, they get access to more

01:14:57.780 | calories, you get access to more foods, they get to have cars,

01:15:00.380 | they get to have houses, all of that making cement making

01:15:02.980 | concrete, all of those things require industrial systems. And

01:15:06.820 | those industrial systems have a cost. That cost is the dollar

01:15:10.420 | economic cost, which we're kind of rationalizing with very

01:15:12.540 | productivity, then there's this whole cost that's externalized.

01:15:15.500 | Got it. Yeah, we understand that. Yeah. Right. So so that's

01:15:18.300 | the tension is like, if you're wealthy, if you're a wealthy

01:15:21.060 | nation, if you're the Western Europe or the United States, you

01:15:24.120 | get to stand up and say, stop carbon. But if you're the rest

01:15:27.580 | of the world, you're like, I want to have a home. I want to

01:15:30.060 | write you want to have the same evolution stuff that America

01:15:34.180 | went through, or you're I want to I want to progress as a as a

01:15:37.380 | person, I want to progress as a society. And that's the tension

01:15:40.580 | that makes us a very difficult problem to resolve, which is how

01:15:44.040 | to more the world get to progress. While you were like

01:15:47.420 | being cognizant of what I'm trying to get at free bird. I

01:15:49.740 | am optimistic. So let me just say this. Oh, yeah, cuz that's

01:15:52.180 | what I'm getting at. Are you optimistic? Are you pessimistic?

01:15:54.400 | Tell us.

01:15:54.920 | I believe strongly that there is a strong relationship between

01:16:00.440 | the output of atmospheric carbon and the deleterious effects we

01:16:03.720 | see in ecosystems. Okay. That is something I feel like is true

01:16:07.280 | from data. I am not however, as pessimistic that the world is

01:16:11.480 | going to end in the next decade or two, because I see

01:16:14.360 | improvements in productivity, meaning how many units we get

01:16:17.860 | out for every unit in or how many units we get out for every

01:16:21.480 | unit of carbon that's emitted. And those productivity meaning

01:16:24.700 | better technology systems are rapidly changing how we make

01:16:28.340 | things and how people are accessing goods and services. And

01:16:31.540 | I think that that's why I am like, because I'm a techno

01:16:34.180 | optimist, I'm optimistic about where things are headed are

01:16:37.100 | headed. And it is also why I get very angry and upset about any

01:16:40.940 | efforts or attempts to slow down the adoption of technology,

01:16:44.220 | because these things will pull people forward and make that

01:16:47.180 | happen faster without all the deleterious side effects that

01:16:50.180 | we've unfortunately had to do in the absence of technology.

01:16:53.140 | So trim off, I'll pull you into here. So based on what freeberg

01:16:56.540 | is saying here, yes, these things are occurring, but the

01:16:59.500 | technology and the advances we're seeing in but one example,

01:17:02.580 | solar, and then some people might bring up nuclear and other

01:17:04.780 | ones, we just had filled to each of my conference this week, give

01:17:07.860 | a great talk on this. Solar is just getting so cheap, batteries

01:17:12.580 | are getting so cheap, putting batteries in your home, putting

01:17:14.780 | solar in, you know, and then putting data centers next to

01:17:17.740 | nuclear things. This is all adding up to we can solve this

01:17:20.700 | problem. And so you to feel optimistic about this?

01:17:23.500 | Yeah, totally. I think that climate change stalled when it

01:17:26.380 | was an emotional and philosophical rallying cry,

01:17:30.580 | largely of the left. When instead, it became something

01:17:35.380 | about resilience, and domestic manufacturing, both sides came

01:17:40.460 | together. And I think we're at a point now where the US is energy

01:17:46.540 | independence plus, the amount of reliance on non carbon based

01:17:51.380 | fuels will drive a sea change in the United States, I think it'll

01:17:55.180 | be copied in Western Europe. And it's also going to be at enough

01:17:58.900 | of a low price point where it'll get embraced in the developing

01:18:02.820 | world. So it's a it's an incredible example of if you

01:18:07.020 | want to take an idea, and a bunch of solutions, and want to

01:18:12.780 | die on the hill of messaging and platitudes, it'll make no

01:18:18.500 | progress. But if instead, you're willing to sort of be less

01:18:22.180 | extreme about it, and actually just frame it in economic value

01:18:26.580 | add, all of a sudden, everybody embraces it and just becomes

01:18:30.620 | obvious. So I think that we're going to do wonders over the

01:18:34.620 | next 20 and 30 and 40 years all over the world. To push back on

01:18:40.660 | the general state of warming. But I think it will have

01:18:43.980 | happened because the economic incentives aligned, not because

01:18:48.140 | of

01:18:48.580 | a philosophical or emotional framing of the issue.

01:18:53.420 | All right, everybody, this has been a very productive episode

01:18:57.180 | of the number one podcast in the world, the all in podcast. And

01:19:01.580 | good luck tonight, gentlemen, with your fundraiser. I wish you

01:19:04.620 | great luck. David Sachs and Chamath Palihapiti. Even if it's

01:19:07.740 | not my preferred candidate, that's totally fine. We could

01:19:09.860 | all differ and you can have a great, great event tonight.

01:19:13.300 | Good luck. I have one thing. Okay, good. I have one more

01:19:16.420 | birthday in my family. Today, making us all look bad. This is

01:19:21.340 | one of the most incredible people in my life. charismatic,

01:19:26.140 | funny, charming, intelligent. It is my bestie David Friedberg

01:19:31.420 | birthday today. Oh,

01:19:32.700 | we love you, David. We had a nice little birthday cake at the

01:19:38.260 | liquidity summit this week for him. I had a cake made. Thank

01:19:41.540 | you for showing your birthday. And here we go. And, and it's

01:19:45.180 | also a k 47. Alan Keating's birthday today is all the same.

01:19:49.100 | But I love Alan Keating is one of my 45 and one is 47.

01:19:53.780 | Do you know the significance of that? Of course, he's gonna win

01:20:01.620 | all the elections. And there we go. Here we go. I think it's a

01:20:05.260 | sign. It's a sign. Listen, I wish good luck to you all

01:20:08.220 | tonight. I hope that it goes off well for you for you, gentlemen.

01:20:11.860 | And listen, I would love to have Trump on the pod would love to

01:20:15.980 | have Biden the pop like all things. We just want to have a

01:20:18.140 | great conversation here. We keep it respectful. Sometimes it gets

01:20:21.220 | a little chippy, but we love each other. And we love you, the

01:20:24.060 | audience for participating in this don't fall for the

01:20:26.460 | mainstream media is nonsense in trying to divide and conquer. We

01:20:29.620 | got important tasks to do and problems to solve in the world.

01:20:32.700 | And the way we do that is through great conversations.

01:20:35.020 | Hopefully we set a tone. An example for everybody else have

01:20:38.180 | just had to do that. We still love each other. And sometimes

01:20:41.260 | some elbows get flown. And it's all good. Chamath sacks. Good

01:20:45.660 | luck tonight. Freeberg. Happy birthday. And bye. We'll see you

01:20:50.500 | all next time on the number one podcast in the world. The all in

01:20:55.180 | pockets tell you friends about

01:20:56.500 | love you guys. Bye bye love you.

01:20:58.220 | Let your winners ride.

01:21:01.380 | Rain Man, David Sachs.

01:21:04.260 | We open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with

01:21:10.860 | it. Love you. Queen of

01:21:12.660 | besties are

01:21:20.860 | dog taking a notice in your driveway.

01:21:25.900 | Oh man, my avatar will meet me.

01:21:30.100 | We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy

01:21:33.300 | because they're all just useless. It's like this like

01:21:35.140 | sexual tension that they just need to release somehow.

01:21:37.420 | Let your beat be. Let your beat be. We need to get merch.

01:21:45.060 | These are. All right, listen, thanks to our friends at eight

01:21:57.660 | sleep sacks and I are both investors and we both love the

01:22:01.580 | pod for ultra they're an incredible company that we both

01:22:04.620 | backed and they are supporting the all in summit and if you

01:22:09.220 | haven't used the pod for ultra or the blah blah blah eight

01:22:12.740 | sleep. If you haven't used a sleep, it's awesome. Go to

01:22:14.780 | eightsleep.com slash all in and use the code all in you'll get

01:22:17.500 | some sort of a discount there. So actually love the company use

01:22:20.060 | the product. It's a great product. And if you sweat like a

01:22:22.420 | pig at night like Jay cow. Yeah. Particularly good for you. It'll

01:22:26.060 | keep you cool. Absolutely. We'll keep it cool. And if you're up

01:22:29.300 | all night because you have so much anxiety about Ukraine,

01:22:31.860 | Ukraine, Ukraine, like Saxon, you can't sleep in your doom

01:22:34.780 | scrolling and tweeting all night. Maybe this will help you

01:22:37.140 | go to bed finally, which I'm watching those tweets is staying

01:22:39.980 | up too late sacks, get some rest here and use a sleep to do it.

01:22:43.140 | And thanks to our friends over there. eightsleep.com slash

01:22:45.080 | all in code all in you get like a free Hyundai or something like

01:22:48.420 | that off the off the price really good deal. And we love

01:22:51.100 | the company. Okay, last year at the all in summit, we had a

01:22:54.300 | wonderful talk by Jenny just and they have a very cool program

01:22:58.700 | called power poker. They're holding a 2024 summer bootcamp

01:23:02.940 | and tournament for women only. So for the ladies out there, if

01:23:06.060 | you want to learn how to play poker, just like the besties and

01:23:08.380 | Jenny just, you can join this four week training class, get a

01:23:12.020 | limited playing time you play in a tournament, I'm going to come

01:23:14.380 | and play in one of the sessions. But here's the great part. We

01:23:17.620 | donated a ticket because we think it's worth encouraging

01:23:20.820 | women to join the poker community. And so there's a

01:23:23.660 | $7500 all in summit 2024 ticket at stake. There's only 80 spots

01:23:28.100 | go ahead and join at poker power.com slash summer dash

01:23:31.740 | bootcamp poker power.com slash summer dash bootcamp. It's gonna

01:23:34.820 | fill up quick number of the women who work at my venture

01:23:38.180 | firm launch have joined and they're looking forward to

01:23:40.100 | learning poker again, 80 spots, I think they charge 100 bucks to

01:23:43.020 | just make sure you show up and there's an all in summit ticket

01:23:45.460 | there for you. You can actually see the video of this podcast on

01:23:48.780 | YouTube, youtube.com slash at all in or just search all in

01:23:52.860 | podcast, and hit the alert bell and you'll get updates when we

01:23:56.820 | post and we're going to do a party in Vegas, my

01:24:00.340 | understanding when we hit a million subscribers. So look for

01:24:03.020 | that as well. You can follow us on x x.com slash the all in pod

01:24:07.980 | tick tock is all underscore in underscore talk, Instagram, the

01:24:12.140 | all in pod. And on LinkedIn, just search for the all in

01:24:15.420 | podcast, you can follow Chamath at x.com slash Chamath. And you

01:24:19.460 | can sign up for a sub stack at Chamath dot sub stack.com I do

01:24:22.980 | free bird can be followed at x.com slash free bird and Ohalo

01:24:26.220 | is hiring click on the careers page at Ohalo genetics.com. Okay,

01:24:30.620 | everybody follow sacks at x.com slash David sacks and check out

01:24:34.380 | sex is slack killer glue at glue.ai I'm Jason Calacanis. I

01:24:40.700 | am x.com slash Jason and if you want to see pictures of my

01:24:43.620 | bulldogs and the food I'm eating, go to instagram.com

01:24:46.780 | slash Jason in the first name club. You can listen to my other

01:24:50.380 | podcasts this week in startups to search for it on YouTube or

01:24:53.340 | your favorite podcast player we are hiring a researcher apply to

01:24:57.260 | be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and

01:25:00.340 | producer Nick working in data and science and being able to do

01:25:03.620 | great research finance, etc. All in podcast.co slash research.

01:25:08.260 | It's a full time job working with us the besties and really

01:25:12.020 | excited about my investment in Athena go to Athena. Wow. Sina

01:25:16.260 | wow.com and get yourself a bit of a discount from your boy J

01:25:20.540 | cow. You know, wow.com. We'll see you all next time on the

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