The_Ideal_Age_To

00:00:00.000 | Hello everybody, it's Sam from financial samurai and in this episode I've got my wife Sydney here

00:00:05.680 | We're gonna talk about the ideal age

00:00:11.840 | to minimize regret and maximize happiness

00:00:14.600 | So if you know my story, I left at 34 years old several months before my 35th birthday in 2012

00:00:22.320 | I was working in finance for 13 years and I decided I had enough because I was burned out

00:00:27.800 | I saw the glass ceiling above my head where I couldn't get promoted to managing director

00:00:34.080 | even after probably three to five years because

00:00:38.000 | There are already a couple managing directors in the satellite office in San Francisco and my direct boss in New York's

00:00:44.500 | City who was the head of the desk wasn't even a managing director yet

00:00:47.840 | So he had to get the managing director and that would take probably one or two years

00:00:52.440 | And then after you know, three to four years of proving myself more

00:00:57.640 | Maybe then I would have said so there were no guarantees

00:01:00.200 | So instead of complaining, I just said hey, let's try to negotiate a severance

00:01:05.720 | To get the hell out so I can do what I want to do

00:01:09.200 | Which was to write more on financial samurai and to travel more and just take a break

00:01:14.080 | And what about you Sydney? How did you exit?

00:01:17.240 | Work, how did you retire? I?

00:01:19.760 | ended up retiring at 35 after about a year of

00:01:26.400 | Thinking about it and being pretty miserable at work

00:01:29.300 | I got passed over for a promotion that I really thought I was gonna get

00:01:34.280 | And then I just started to have too much stress

00:01:39.000 | I always had stress on and off at the job

00:01:40.920 | But it got to the point where I was never getting any kind of a break. I was working long hours

00:01:46.360 | I was working on the weekends

00:01:49.040 | While also trying to do some side hustling

00:01:52.080 | So I was really just burning myself out and I ended up having a nervous breakdown

00:01:57.560 | And cried myself to sleep one night and that's when I realized okay. This is it. This is not working for me anymore

00:02:05.200 | I need to figure out a way to

00:02:07.240 | change things so

00:02:10.360 | you and I started talking in depth about what what I could use to strategize a way to negotiate my own layoff and

00:02:18.400 | So I started the conversation

00:02:21.120 | Basically the next day with my HR manager and then my own direct manager and the negotiation process took about

00:02:28.440 | Six weeks roughly there was a lot of back and forth

00:02:31.080 | But it all worked out in the end. I was able to reduce my hours and still get full-time pay

00:02:38.100 | I think I was working about three days a week

00:02:40.400 | And I ended up training two people to replace me which proved that I was doing the work of more than just one person

00:02:49.120 | All in all it was like getting a 60% raise for six months the remainder of time

00:02:54.280 | I spent there because I ended up working only three days a week. So 40% hour

00:02:58.920 | For 40% less use me and getting the same pay. So it was it was a great way to exit

00:03:04.400 | I was really happy and then you got a severance. Yeah of several months worth as well

00:03:08.360 | So in retrospect, did you think that leaving at 35 was good age?

00:03:13.280 | yeah, and

00:03:15.840 | one of the main reasons I feel that benefited us is because I

00:03:20.560 | Wasn't stressed anymore once I left and then we were able to start our family

00:03:25.400 | About a year or so later. So that was huge. That's huge for us, right?

00:03:31.700 | so, you know, I came up with this chart in terms of

00:03:35.680 | Trying to be more objective regarding the ideal retirement age and I came up with four variables

00:03:41.280 | income freedom potential and

00:03:45.600 | return on education

00:03:47.320 | Now when we try to figure out

00:03:49.320 | minimizing regret and maximizing happiness

00:03:52.440 | We don't want to retire too early because we might regret not recognizing our full work potential

00:04:00.280 | For example, or we might you know, basically waste our time getting all that education

00:04:06.600 | I mean, what's the point of going to college and then maybe getting a master's and then a PhD

00:04:11.680 | Only to retire in your 30s or early 40s. That seems kind of like a waste and

00:04:16.200 | Then on the income side

00:04:18.880 | You know the biggest the highest earning years are usually in your 40s and 50s

00:04:23.440 | So there's all these variables that I you know put together and we thought about to figure out what that ideal

00:04:31.440 | Retirement age is and the conclusion that I came up with is that the ideal retirement age is 41 to 45

00:04:39.680 | And the reason why based on these variables is one I scored income as a 9

00:04:45.360 | 9 in the sense that you've been working for 20 plus years already

00:04:49.600 | And so you've already kind of tasted what high income is like you've tasted whether

00:04:55.480 | Making more money has made you happier or not

00:04:58.720 | But if you retire in your 30s, for example or 35

00:05:02.800 | You might not fully know what it's like to make a high high income

00:05:07.800 | In terms of freedom freedom. It just kind of depends on where your home life is and how much respect you get at work

00:05:14.440 | You know between 41 and 45 you should have a lot of respect from your peers

00:05:18.440 | If you've got 20 plus years of experience, I know my respect increased

00:05:22.920 | I got no respect in the finance industry when it was in my 20s

00:05:25.920 | I mean clients and respect me colleagues didn't respect me. So so by the time you get to your 40s you get some

00:05:32.920 | More respect a little bit of freedom in terms of potential. I think there's maximum potential once you leave your job

00:05:39.920 | In your 40s in your early 40s because you've got the experience. You've got the energy you got the wisdom

00:05:46.040 | You've probably got the capital. And so the potential is to do other things that you want

00:05:51.160 | I mean, you know retiring doesn't mean in my mind doing nothing retiring from a day job means

00:05:56.960 | putting that chapter behind and

00:05:59.800 | Just doing something creative or something. You really really wanted to do or you know volunteering or whatever it is

00:06:06.240 | And then finally return on education

00:06:08.240 | in your 40s

00:06:10.160 | So you have worked for 20 plus years and you've gone to school for less than 20 years

00:06:16.760 | So I like the ratio of working longer than the number of education years

00:06:22.440 | You've got otherwise it just seems a little bit off. So Cindy, what do you think about?

00:06:27.440 | The ideal retirement age. What do you think? Is that?

00:06:30.140 | Proper range and what do you think about my belief that the age range is 41 to 45?

00:06:35.680 | I think it's a great range and I would agree with that. I think it's again

00:06:40.880 | Retirement is something that's personal. Everybody's different. They've got different career interests and trajectories

00:06:46.840 | I think you know for the grand scheme of thing

00:06:49.960 | I think that's a great window because again, you've put your education to work you've

00:06:56.080 | should have hopefully done well with your income potential by that point and

00:07:00.280 | I

00:07:02.280 | Think people really start getting the itch at around that age to do something different

00:07:06.480 | Yeah, and so that's that's the thing and maybe you're not retiring. Maybe the other word is you're you're going for a career change

00:07:14.160 | You know you wanted to job jump into a different completely different field that you've always been interested in

00:07:20.800 | But you were too afraid because you just didn't have the experience or the capital or the connections

00:07:26.040 | And so by the time you're in your early 40s, you gain a lot of confidence

00:07:30.040 | I definitely felt I got more and more confident as I got older, especially once I hit 30

00:07:35.120 | I felt like hey, I have arrived. I've got experience

00:07:38.880 | Respect me. I know what I'm talking about

00:07:41.240 | And by the time you hit 40, you definitely know a lot about what you're talking about

00:07:46.280 | And here's the thing although the ideal retirement age

00:07:49.640 | I think is 41 to 45 because you're young enough and a lot of you still have a lot of energy to do whatever you

00:07:54.880 | Want if you love your job, which I did not love my job after 13 years

00:07:59.680 | I say by all means

00:08:01.680 | Continue to work whether it's 250 years old or 260 years old if you're truly blessed and love your job

00:08:07.800 | The issue is I think about 70 plus percent of people are disengaged from their jobs

00:08:13.720 | They would rather do something else, you know

00:08:15.920 | They ship it in they come in the latest possible time without getting too criticized and they try to leave as

00:08:22.080 | Soon as possible or right when their boss leaves and so I think if we're all honest with ourselves, I

00:08:27.040 | Don't know that many people who truly truly love their jobs. Do you?

00:08:32.200 | know I think it's rare that's why if you do love your job hold on to it and

00:08:37.880 | Maximize it. Yeah, hold on to maximize it because I see a lot of people who actually do make a high income

00:08:45.800 | You know, we're talking multiple six figures maybe seven figures and they're just burnt out

00:08:51.320 | Well, the other thing to think about is that not many people have the opportunity to make that type of money

00:08:57.360 | You know around five hundred thousand dollars and above is a top 1% income

00:09:01.720 | so if you're lucky enough to have a household income above that or an individual income above that I

00:09:06.720 | Would I would really encourage you to try to take a sabbatical or maybe you know change?

00:09:13.960 | Roles in at your firm or take things down a notch a little bit

00:09:18.520 | Take all your vacations and try to really milk that

00:09:21.320 | Maximize that income potential for as long as possible until you really really can't take it anymore

00:09:26.160 | Because the other thing I've learned is that once you leave that kind of income, it's very hard to get it back

00:09:32.460 | Especially if you've been out of the workplace for more than I would say two or three years

00:09:38.080 | Once you're out of the workplace for three years

00:09:41.040 | Your value really starts to decline because your network and your connections get diluted

00:09:47.440 | Technology changes technology changes your skill set gets outdated

00:09:51.480 | So you've got to figure out if you do decide to come back to the workforce

00:09:56.000 | You've got to figure out how to keep that skill set fresh and your connections fresh. So that's a good hedge

00:10:02.680 | That's a good piece of advice if you decide to retire early or earlier than the normal 60 65 age range

00:10:09.160 | Keep in touch with all your previous clients all your previous colleagues your friends go out to lunch dinner drinks

00:10:16.760 | When the pandemic is over and just keep that connection and keep your skill set up

00:10:21.820 | Otherwise, well, it's as a hedge just in case you decide to go back to work

00:10:26.760 | the other thing I want to share about retirement is that you might find yourself to be busier than ever in retirement because suddenly you

00:10:34.900 | have

00:10:35.680 | 10 to 12 hours a day on average to do whatever you want

00:10:39.080 | You tend to logically and rationally go do those things you really really want to do

00:10:44.200 | So don't feel like you're gonna be bored

00:10:46.960 | Well, you might be bored for the first six months as you try to figure out your new way of life

00:10:50.900 | But I promise you folks that you will figure out something that you really love to do and do it with the greatest of passions

00:10:57.960 | Especially the younger you retire. So for example

00:11:01.400 | My wife and I we decided to travel to around 30 new countries. We took cruises around Europe and we went to Asia

00:11:10.000 | After we both were retired and it was awesome

00:11:13.060 | Yeah, it was really great and we saw places like Angkor Wat and Cambodia. The temples were just unbelievable

00:11:18.720 | We saw old friends in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. We went to st. Petersburg, Russia

00:11:23.480 | I mean, these are all great great trips that I've really appreciated in my mind in terms of value

00:11:29.360 | And especially now that it's not easy to travel or we don't want to travel right now. I mean these trips were wonderful

00:11:35.360 | What else did I do? I worked on my tennis game a lot

00:11:39.280 | I'm an avid tennis player and I was able to get bumped up to a 5-0 level

00:11:42.520 | USTA ranking and that's a really tough ranking because it's all filled with Division 1 X college athletes and then of course I

00:11:50.520 | Spent a lot of time writing on financial samurai

00:11:53.240 | Three to four times a week and it was really really fulfilling and it still is really really fulfilling

00:11:58.480 | Because it's really fun to learn about new things interact with the community, you know, build a brand build a website

00:12:05.040 | These are all fun things to do that. I probably just do for free

00:12:08.280 | I mean traveling playing tennis writing. These are all enjoyable activities that I like to do and

00:12:14.720 | Then of course as Sydney said we were able to finally successfully start a family

00:12:19.880 | Which is frankly the greatest thing we've ever done so far

00:12:23.800 | I mean we feel so blessed and I'm telling you folks if you're trying to start a family and it's not

00:12:31.680 | Happening it might likely be due to the stress you feel at work

00:12:37.960 | It's so funny that you know after years and years of work. We start getting used to this type of

00:12:43.920 | gnawing stress

00:12:46.280 | every single day and

00:12:48.280 | You know these chronic health issues and pains

00:12:51.640 | We just kind of start living with it and it's only after you

00:12:55.480 | Leave your job if you have obviously enough capital to sustain your lifestyle

00:13:00.240 | That you you notice Wow life

00:13:05.400 | Shouldn't be that stressful all the time or we've been bottling up all that stress

00:13:09.320 | All so often every single day for so long

00:13:13.320 | Alrighty. Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode about the ideal age to retire

00:13:18.960 | There is a great survey in the post which has over

00:13:23.080 | 5,700 entries and I'll tell you that the first place vote is

00:13:27.440 | 51 to 55 years old is the ideal age range to retire followed by 46 to 50

00:13:34.200 | followed by 41 to 45 in retrospect, I

00:13:38.120 | Personally believe that leaving my day job at 34 was too young

00:13:42.600 | Because I felt a little bit rushed even though I was able to negotiate a severance that paid for about five years of living expenses

00:13:49.160 | I still felt rushed because I didn't I didn't have that nice going away party

00:13:55.000 | For example, even though I was at my firm for 11 years. I wasn't able to relocate to another office and try something new

00:14:01.120 | I wasn't able to go, you know to a competitor and get some kind of guaranteed compensation

00:14:06.480 | And I wasn't able to go on many business trips and just feel great that ah, this is my last year of work

00:14:13.520 | How relaxing is that? You know when you apply to college I remember in high school and if you got in early

00:14:19.840 | I don't know if I got in early but man those people who got in early were able to just coast for the last

00:14:24.440 | Yeah, you know four or five months

00:14:26.080 | I mean that is what I would have liked to retire at least one year later at 35 or 36

00:14:32.800 | Really save more money experience more and just mentally knowing that the end is nigh, right?

00:14:40.080 | It just feels psychologically better

00:14:42.720 | So so just really think about things folks

00:14:46.360 | Retiring doing what you want is a really personal decision. I think 20 years of doing something and

00:14:54.920 | Is enough I don't think anybody will will look down upon you after 20 years of experience and for you to try something new

00:15:01.840 | And so I say no regrets live life with no regrets

00:15:04.720 | obviously think about

00:15:07.360 | Making calculated decisions and discuss and listen to people who've done it before

00:15:11.960 | because you cannot really

00:15:14.640 | Ascertain and and pinpoint all the different things that will happen to your life

00:15:19.120 | You just can't you just got to do the best you can. Yeah

00:15:23.120 | Alright folks. We'll talk to you later and I'll see you guys around

00:15:26.800 | Thanks everybody. And if you like this episode would love a positive review because it helps keep us going

The_Ideal_Age_To_Retire