RPF0693-Friday_QA-Should_We_Quit_Our_High-Income_Career_to_Be_Home_With_The_Kids
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00:00:30.560 | It's Friday, live Q&A time.
00:00:33.440 | (upbeat music)
00:00:36.020 | Welcome to Radical Personal Finance,
00:00:50.740 | a show dedicated to providing you with the knowledge,
00:00:52.480 | skills, insight, and encouragement you need
00:00:54.500 | to live a rich and meaningful life now
00:00:56.380 | while building a plan for financial freedom
00:00:57.940 | in 10 years or less.
00:00:59.620 | My name is Joshua, I am your host,
00:01:01.020 | and it is time for a Friday Q&A show.
00:01:03.940 | Open phone lines, open to patrons of the show,
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00:01:10.940 | whatever you want to talk about.
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00:01:40.560 | We begin with, let's see, Tim in New York.
00:01:43.900 | Tim, welcome to the show.
00:01:44.740 | How can I serve you today, sir?
00:01:46.220 | - Hi, Joshua, thanks for taking my call.
00:01:50.020 | Just wanted to let you know I really appreciate what you do,
00:01:52.240 | and the values you espouse are really aligned with mine,
00:01:56.740 | and I really appreciate all the advice that you give.
00:01:59.500 | And I was recently listening to your Spousal Liberty show.
00:02:06.340 | It was, I don't know, a week or two ago.
00:02:08.500 | And you said something that really struck me,
00:02:12.540 | which was you didn't know what you would do
00:02:15.420 | had you married a doctor.
00:02:16.820 | And then you also mentioned, I took some notes here,
00:02:19.980 | so you said family works best
00:02:21.380 | with one large productive career
00:02:23.860 | and one family facilitator.
00:02:26.220 | And you also mentioned that you didn't think,
00:02:27.740 | you didn't think it was possible to own a business
00:02:31.020 | and care for young children.
00:02:32.420 | On its face, I would tend to agree
00:02:37.020 | with pretty much all of that,
00:02:38.500 | and I happen to be in that situation.
00:02:40.800 | We are mid-30s.
00:02:43.780 | We have three kids under five
00:02:46.820 | in a private Christian school right now.
00:02:49.000 | I don't know how much you would wanna know necessarily
00:02:54.820 | about me without knowing my topic,
00:02:56.380 | so I'll get right to that.
00:02:57.680 | My wife, like I said, is a doctor,
00:03:01.140 | and she was recently let go
00:03:04.700 | from an associateship that she was in.
00:03:08.380 | She was making probably 175-ish,
00:03:13.340 | but she's been in about four
00:03:15.140 | of these associateships agreements
00:03:17.660 | in the last nine years or so,
00:03:20.220 | all of them being about part-time,
00:03:23.180 | between two and a half days to four days a week.
00:03:25.620 | And she's just been treated really poorly
00:03:28.020 | by the owners of these practices
00:03:30.860 | that have really taken advantage of her,
00:03:32.780 | and even this latest one could result
00:03:36.300 | in some legal issues that we're gonna pursue.
00:03:41.300 | And she's just sick of being
00:03:42.820 | like a second-class doctor basically
00:03:44.980 | and having to ask permission
00:03:46.920 | or being second-guessed on things.
00:03:48.860 | And so when she, last month she was forced to resign,
00:03:51.460 | and she started second-guessing her career choice
00:03:56.460 | and I guess her vocation as a mom and as a working mom.
00:04:01.160 | And I would say that since we've been married,
00:04:06.740 | our priorities have kind of changed,
00:04:09.540 | less about focusing on careers
00:04:12.460 | and more about raising good, solid Christian children.
00:04:16.220 | So we do a lot of volunteering in church and whatnot.
00:04:20.900 | And after she was terminated,
00:04:25.340 | I don't know if it was a knee-jerk reaction,
00:04:28.100 | but she said something about,
00:04:29.900 | "Maybe I should homeschool the kids."
00:04:31.700 | And then a couple of days later,
00:04:33.540 | she was back to looking at buying a practice.
00:04:36.780 | So she's kind of gone back and forth,
00:04:39.100 | and I think now she's less in the homeschooling mindset
00:04:43.620 | and more in the, "I just wanna work for myself" mindset.
00:04:46.800 | And so I'm kind of letting these things
00:04:50.060 | settle a little bit before we make a really big decision
00:04:55.060 | that's gonna affect the rest of our lives.
00:04:59.780 | And then I heard your show a couple of weeks ago.
00:05:03.180 | And so I guess I'm looking for maybe to have you expand on,
00:05:08.180 | you said you don't know what you'd do
00:05:16.720 | if you married a doctor.
00:05:17.780 | Well, I did.
00:05:19.020 | I work, I have a W-2 job.
00:05:23.580 | She's been an independent contractor,
00:05:25.220 | so she's been a 1099,
00:05:26.820 | which is nice because we can take advantage
00:05:31.220 | of some of the tax breaks and whatnot.
00:05:32.580 | So it's worked well to have one W-2.
00:05:35.180 | I collect all the benefits from my employer.
00:05:38.400 | I work from home.
00:05:39.500 | I don't work more than 40 hours.
00:05:40.940 | It's a nice fit.
00:05:42.100 | - Good.
00:05:42.940 | - But then she makes twice as much as me in half the time.
00:05:46.860 | - Sure, sure.
00:05:47.700 | - It, so I'm sorry, I went on a long time.
00:05:51.780 | So I'll let you share if you have any thoughts.
00:05:54.020 | - Yeah, so first of all, how much is your income?
00:05:57.540 | - It's about 90,000.
00:06:01.820 | I knew you'd ask this.
00:06:02.900 | So I also thought about total compensation
00:06:07.500 | because she doesn't get any of the benefits that I get
00:06:11.540 | that we would otherwise have to pay for.
00:06:13.020 | So I have a pretty generous pension through my employer.
00:06:15.340 | I have a 401k matching, a lot of vacation time,
00:06:20.340 | so, and health insurance, of course.
00:06:23.260 | So I estimate the total compensation to be around 120.
00:06:26.940 | - That's great.
00:06:27.820 | And it's a blessing that you're able
00:06:28.820 | to work from home as well.
00:06:30.340 | You have said three children under five.
00:06:32.380 | So all of your children then are in daycare
00:06:34.620 | or one of them is in--
00:06:36.180 | - Five are under, I'm sorry.
00:06:37.700 | One is kindergarten.
00:06:38.620 | - Okay, one is kindergarten.
00:06:40.820 | - And then pre-K.
00:06:41.660 | - Yeah.
00:06:43.060 | Well, I'll share with you my thoughts
00:06:47.820 | and we can talk about it, but there's not gonna be,
00:06:52.820 | let's work it through.
00:06:55.940 | So here's where I would like to begin.
00:06:58.860 | What bothers me intensely
00:07:02.260 | in many financial planning conversations,
00:07:04.820 | including on a topic like this,
00:07:06.980 | is people start with the numbers involved.
00:07:11.020 | And they start by saying,
00:07:12.700 | well, you've gotta do the thing that is most profitable.
00:07:16.220 | And I simply reject that.
00:07:19.060 | I think that you do need to consider numbers,
00:07:21.120 | but I don't think that money and money alone
00:07:23.500 | is a very good criteria to really make
00:07:26.440 | almost any decision in life.
00:07:28.940 | At least not in my worldview and not in yours either.
00:07:32.460 | There are many things that I could do
00:07:34.540 | that would make a lot of money
00:07:36.060 | that I simply would not do because the price is too high.
00:07:40.780 | Whether those, and there's things that I could do
00:07:42.860 | that don't make a little bit, that just make some money
00:07:44.860 | that I would not do because the price is too high.
00:07:47.940 | And for me, I'm always going to prioritize people.
00:07:52.420 | In my worldview, people are the most important things.
00:07:55.380 | You mentioned that you guys are both Christians.
00:07:57.380 | Well, let's start there.
00:07:58.880 | Jesus said, "Do not lay up for yourselves
00:08:00.700 | "treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy
00:08:03.500 | "and where thieves break in and steal,
00:08:04.960 | "but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven
00:08:07.400 | "where moth and rust do not destroy
00:08:09.540 | "and where thieves cannot break in and steal.
00:08:11.240 | "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
00:08:15.220 | Now, I've pondered that verse and that teaching
00:08:19.220 | and many others that Jesus taught about money.
00:08:20.940 | I've pondered that for years.
00:08:22.660 | And as I've considered it, I've asked myself,
00:08:25.300 | how do you store up treasures in heaven?
00:08:27.140 | Let me ask you, Tim.
00:08:28.140 | How do you, if I say to you,
00:08:30.020 | how do you store up treasures in heaven?
00:08:31.660 | What's your answer to that?
00:08:36.940 | - I would say the way that we, at church,
00:08:40.180 | I mean, we donate to the church, we donate to the poor,
00:08:43.780 | we donate our time in leading ministry.
00:08:46.760 | I would say those are probably the primary ways.
00:08:52.860 | - Good.
00:08:53.940 | So, I'll share my answer and I'll do it
00:08:56.980 | just simply with one simple thing.
00:08:58.900 | When I think about storing up treasures in heaven,
00:09:01.660 | well, I can't do that with gold, right?
00:09:05.820 | Streets are paid with gold, gold doesn't matter, right?
00:09:08.260 | Obviously, it's a metaphor,
00:09:09.620 | but gold and silver are not eternal.
00:09:12.580 | They're physical substances.
00:09:14.100 | They're not immaterial and eternal.
00:09:16.660 | The only thing that I know of that is immaterial
00:09:19.260 | and eternal is a soul, a living soul.
00:09:23.000 | Souls are the only things that are immaterial and eternal.
00:09:27.940 | God himself is immaterial and eternal,
00:09:29.940 | and he's given man a soul.
00:09:32.100 | A soul is an immaterial, eternal entity
00:09:35.460 | that goes on forever.
00:09:36.500 | So, if you wanna store up treasures in heaven,
00:09:38.740 | the only way I know how to do that is to invest in souls,
00:09:42.320 | because souls are the only thing
00:09:44.020 | that actually goes from here to there.
00:09:49.020 | And then, one of the basic ways to do that
00:09:56.420 | is to take money and invest it into people.
00:10:02.020 | I always think about another teaching of Jesus,
00:10:04.540 | where Jesus said, in the book of Luke,
00:10:06.940 | he said, "I tell you, make friends for yourselves
00:10:10.460 | "by means of unrighteous wealth,
00:10:12.580 | "so that when it fails, they may receive you
00:10:14.460 | "into eternal dwellings."
00:10:16.940 | Now, obviously, Jesus is talking about that
00:10:18.780 | in the context of the parable of the dishonest manager,
00:10:23.740 | but it's just something that I always think about.
00:10:26.580 | Different translation says,
00:10:28.020 | "Use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourself,
00:10:30.680 | "so that when it is gone,
00:10:31.660 | "you'll be welcomed into eternal dwellings."
00:10:34.220 | Now, again, I'm pulling that a little out of context,
00:10:36.420 | 'cause it's in the context of a parable,
00:10:37.900 | but I think the thought is there,
00:10:39.100 | and just in the point that I make.
00:10:40.300 | Say, okay, what is the point of money?
00:10:41.900 | The point of money is to invest it into people.
00:10:44.540 | And so, when I die, and when you die,
00:10:47.540 | we leave exactly the same amount of money behind
00:10:49.960 | as everyone else, all of it.
00:10:52.300 | And we're only stewards of it
00:10:53.740 | for a temporary period of time.
00:10:55.060 | So, I'm always going to prioritize people above finance.
00:10:59.860 | I'm always gonna prioritize souls more than gold coins,
00:11:04.540 | or digits on a digital balance sheet.
00:11:07.020 | That's my basic and simple philosophy.
00:11:10.160 | So, when we come to something like a job,
00:11:13.380 | and you think about your children,
00:11:15.300 | and your family, and your community,
00:11:18.180 | this applies across the board.
00:11:19.940 | So, if we use the ethic that I'm going to invest money
00:11:24.520 | and lay up treasures in heaven, not on the earth,
00:11:28.940 | then that's going to give a good guiding principle
00:11:31.140 | to many decisions.
00:11:31.980 | So, for example, I'm not going to engage in a career
00:11:34.200 | or business choice that is destructive to people.
00:11:38.300 | So, perhaps I could go, and I could become a multimillionaire
00:11:43.100 | by fomenting wars around the world,
00:11:45.700 | and using those wars to create a demand for me
00:11:49.180 | to sell arms to the war efforts,
00:11:51.740 | and to the people who are prosecuting those wars.
00:11:53.900 | But I'm not gonna do that,
00:11:55.140 | because that results in the destruction of souls
00:11:57.500 | rather than the betterment of souls.
00:11:59.220 | I'd rather have a very small business
00:12:01.340 | that actually served people,
00:12:03.340 | more than have a big business that was destructive
00:12:06.440 | to society and destructive to people's souls.
00:12:08.880 | We can pivot to our family, and I could say,
00:12:12.020 | well, there are a lot of things that I could do
00:12:13.340 | that would make a lot of money.
00:12:15.460 | There are things that I could do that would be illegal,
00:12:17.980 | that would make money.
00:12:19.140 | And not only would some of those things be destructive,
00:12:21.020 | but the risk of doing something illegal is simply too high,
00:12:23.260 | because perhaps I could make a million dollars this year
00:12:26.160 | doing something illegal.
00:12:27.900 | But the risk is that I'm going to be imprisoned
00:12:30.940 | for my activities, and I'm gonna spend the next 20 years
00:12:33.660 | in prison and not be able to be of any use to my children.
00:12:36.340 | So I'm obviously not gonna do anything illegal.
00:12:39.700 | In addition, we could go to,
00:12:41.060 | what about something that's very high paid,
00:12:42.980 | but would take me away from my family?
00:12:44.500 | Perhaps I could go and work as a military contractor
00:12:48.580 | overseas, hire myself out as a mercenary,
00:12:51.780 | make a lot of money working
00:12:52.780 | for a private contracting company.
00:12:55.820 | Yeah, but that takes me away from my children.
00:12:58.120 | And it takes me away from my children, from my family.
00:13:02.760 | I leave them.
00:13:03.720 | And could there be times
00:13:05.720 | where you have to do something like that?
00:13:07.160 | Yeah, of course, right?
00:13:08.560 | Throughout history, men have gone away to war.
00:13:11.300 | And if it's necessary, if your home is being threatened
00:13:14.960 | by somebody, you might have to go away and fight and say,
00:13:17.000 | I'm sorry, I'll be back on the other side of the war.
00:13:18.720 | That might be.
00:13:19.760 | But I'm not gonna make a decision like that intentionally,
00:13:22.800 | because I know that the havoc
00:13:24.480 | that that would wreak in my children
00:13:26.260 | and in my family and in my community.
00:13:29.180 | And so all of these examples are simply trying to say
00:13:32.440 | that you're never gonna get me to start by saying,
00:13:36.300 | the only thing that matters is the most profitable.
00:13:38.800 | It's simply not.
00:13:40.760 | All the money is disposable.
00:13:43.340 | It's all gonna be eventually burned up.
00:13:45.220 | And so it's simply a temporary tool for a time.
00:13:48.340 | But what's the most important
00:13:49.660 | is the souls of people involved.
00:13:52.680 | So that's my basic guiding ethic,
00:13:55.820 | that money matters, but it's not the most important thing.
00:13:58.860 | So now we come back to a situation
00:14:01.140 | such as you're wrestling with.
00:14:02.900 | How do we, as parents, build a godly family
00:14:07.260 | that will stand the test of time?
00:14:09.220 | Well, that's not an easy question to answer.
00:14:11.140 | There's a lot of things that are associated with that.
00:14:13.900 | But I'm gonna use that ethic, and I'm gonna say,
00:14:16.180 | I'm gonna begin by deciding
00:14:17.660 | what's in the best interest of our family.
00:14:20.860 | And we're gonna take into account
00:14:22.760 | what's in my best interest as the husband and father,
00:14:26.320 | what's in my wife's best interest as the mother and wife,
00:14:30.360 | what's in our children's best interest,
00:14:32.480 | and what's in the best interest
00:14:33.800 | of our family collectively together.
00:14:36.240 | And I'm gonna try to build an ideal vision
00:14:39.060 | from that position.
00:14:40.840 | And then once we're clear on what we think
00:14:42.800 | is in our best interest, what we think is the ideal,
00:14:45.120 | what we think is the best way for us to invest in souls,
00:14:48.480 | then now, as I see it, we pivot,
00:14:50.940 | and we look at the finances, and we say,
00:14:53.620 | in light of our vision, how can we make the finances fit?
00:14:58.420 | In light of our vision, how can we make the finances fit?
00:15:02.740 | And then we go with what,
00:15:08.180 | and we ask God for wisdom in that situation.
00:15:10.620 | And we consider different options,
00:15:13.260 | we consider different solutions,
00:15:14.580 | we consider the benefits and the disadvantages
00:15:16.980 | of different parts of that,
00:15:18.760 | and then we go from there.
00:15:22.240 | Now, the challenges, so do you agree with me so far
00:15:27.120 | in my method of analysis here, Tim?
00:15:29.640 | - Yes, mm-hmm.
00:15:30.480 | - Okay, so at this point in time,
00:15:33.240 | what we've accomplished, we've accomplished a basic ethic,
00:15:37.160 | a basic framework, and now the challenge comes to,
00:15:41.200 | well, how do we know what's in the best interest
00:15:42.960 | of our children?
00:15:44.200 | So how do we know whether or not your wife
00:15:49.200 | working as a doctor and doing this,
00:15:52.400 | how do we know if that's better for our family,
00:15:55.580 | for her to make an extra $175,000 a year
00:15:58.340 | by being away from the family for 60 hours a week,
00:16:01.020 | or if it's better for our family
00:16:02.460 | to not have that extra $175,000,
00:16:05.800 | and just simply being with the family?
00:16:08.980 | How do we know?
00:16:09.940 | How do we know if it's better for you, go ahead.
00:16:13.500 | - I was just gonna say, I know we already talked
00:16:16.740 | about the dollar figure doesn't necessarily matter,
00:16:20.180 | but there's a pretty big difference
00:16:21.980 | between what she's thinking of pursuing now,
00:16:23.680 | which would be purchasing a practice,
00:16:26.460 | and what she was making as an associate.
00:16:29.220 | It would probably be double.
00:16:30.140 | We're probably looking at over $300,000,
00:16:32.860 | to the point where maybe I could go part-time.
00:16:36.100 | Just an option, just things that we're bouncing around.
00:16:40.300 | - Sure, fair enough.
00:16:42.020 | So I honestly don't know how I could solve the question.
00:16:47.020 | I don't know how it's possible for someone
00:16:51.220 | who's not in the middle of the family,
00:16:52.660 | because there are a lot of things that you've gotta balance.
00:16:55.180 | Number one is you've gotta take an accurate look
00:16:57.660 | at your earning ability.
00:17:00.860 | It could be that you're choosing to earn something
00:17:03.100 | where you're making $90,000 per year,
00:17:05.720 | because of the things that it gives you,
00:17:07.380 | but you could go and do something
00:17:09.380 | to making $400,000 a year.
00:17:11.260 | And so I would talk about with my wife,
00:17:13.060 | and I would say, "Well, what if I were making $400,000
00:17:15.180 | "a year, what would we do then?"
00:17:18.140 | It could be, on the other hand,
00:17:19.180 | that you don't have that capability.
00:17:20.820 | Maybe you are untrained, maybe you are just simply
00:17:23.740 | not capable of earning a significant income,
00:17:26.060 | in which case everything changes.
00:17:27.860 | You need to look at, talk about your ambitions,
00:17:30.340 | your career ambitions, your family ambitions.
00:17:33.780 | Then you'd talk to your wife.
00:17:35.020 | Take a good, solid look at her life, her lifestyle,
00:17:38.340 | her ambitions, her career ambitions,
00:17:40.620 | the time and the structure for the family.
00:17:43.220 | Talk about what's given up.
00:17:45.180 | One way, if she stays home and is a stay-at-home mom,
00:17:48.560 | if she works as a part-time doc,
00:17:51.140 | just doing another associate thing,
00:17:52.860 | if she does her own business and buys her own practice
00:17:55.780 | and sets that up, talking about that.
00:17:57.780 | I think it's important to discuss
00:18:01.380 | the impact on the children.
00:18:02.720 | If I could have a magic wand and wave a magic wand
00:18:08.220 | over the entire universe, I would have every dad
00:18:11.900 | and every mom as full-time moms and dads,
00:18:16.180 | perfectly together with their children
00:18:18.380 | for the first five to 10 years of life.
00:18:21.100 | In my opinion, that's probably the best solution.
00:18:24.460 | Now, I do think that that should be done
00:18:26.620 | in the context of work.
00:18:27.660 | I think it's really healthy to have work and jobs
00:18:31.140 | that children can engage with together,
00:18:33.540 | but I think stay-at-home moms and stay-at-home dads,
00:18:36.220 | and for those years, it is incredible.
00:18:40.220 | I wouldn't give up, I can't imagine the amount of money
00:18:44.300 | that, there's no amount of money that I would give up
00:18:49.300 | and trade for the lifestyle
00:18:50.740 | that my wife and I enjoy right now.
00:18:52.260 | We're with our children 168 hours a week, both of us.
00:18:55.940 | I guess 167 or 166.
00:18:58.700 | We do try to put them into some classes and things
00:19:01.460 | where they have to be with a teacher
00:19:03.660 | and a homeschool co-op, things like that.
00:19:06.100 | But beyond that, we're with our children
00:19:07.980 | practically all the time.
00:19:09.700 | Now, I don't think that's a mandatory number
00:19:11.900 | that dads and moms have to be together with their children
00:19:14.220 | for 168 hours a week
00:19:16.100 | in order to raise successful children, nonsense.
00:19:18.660 | But it is really nice.
00:19:20.960 | And when I think about what would I buy with the money,
00:19:24.980 | what would you buy with the money?
00:19:26.020 | What would change in your lifestyle
00:19:27.900 | if your wife makes $350,000 instead of 175
00:19:32.420 | or in terms instead of zero?
00:19:34.700 | Well, we could talk about that.
00:19:36.500 | Basically, you'll have more money faster.
00:19:38.540 | So you become financially independent faster.
00:19:40.900 | You'll start consuming more.
00:19:42.480 | You'll have a bigger house.
00:19:43.500 | You'll have nicer cars.
00:19:44.980 | You'll be able to put the children into nicer things,
00:19:47.220 | fancier camps, fancier schools, et cetera.
00:19:50.480 | To me, none of those things are nearly as appealing
00:19:56.020 | as having a strong family.
00:19:57.580 | If I had to trade them,
00:19:58.780 | and I don't think you have to necessarily.
00:20:02.460 | I'm a little tongue-tied
00:20:03.380 | just because I'm trying to be very respectful
00:20:06.100 | of the fact that you're not me.
00:20:07.580 | So I'm just speaking from my position
00:20:09.340 | and trying to be also very respectful of the fact
00:20:11.260 | that what we're dealing with here
00:20:12.580 | is one of the most sensitive, intimate types of decisions
00:20:16.340 | that a family can wrestle through.
00:20:18.220 | And it's tough.
00:20:19.060 | It's difficult.
00:20:20.520 | But all I can say is that I can't think of anything
00:20:23.400 | that I would wanna buy with money
00:20:25.140 | that would make it worth my giving up
00:20:27.220 | those early years of my children's life.
00:20:29.580 | And so if my wife were in that situation,
00:20:32.940 | I would say, "Listen, honey, let's keep you current.
00:20:35.300 | "Keep your licenses current.
00:20:36.780 | "Keep your skills current.
00:20:38.180 | "You can stay current on knowledge.
00:20:39.580 | "Let's try to find some way
00:20:42.380 | "that you can indulge your interest in this area.
00:20:47.380 | "Let's find some way that you can maybe be a researcher.
00:20:52.260 | "Instead of being a practitioner,
00:20:53.620 | "is there something that you can do as a researcher
00:20:55.620 | "that's not gonna subject you to the daily stress
00:20:58.660 | "of being at your practice 40 hours a week
00:21:02.780 | "just to make money that we don't necessarily need?"
00:21:05.780 | Just so what?
00:21:07.780 | So we can buy bigger cars and a fancier house?
00:21:11.460 | How are we ever gonna get back the time with our children?
00:21:14.820 | How are we ever gonna get back the relationship
00:21:16.820 | that is cemented in those early years?
00:21:19.180 | And I would say, "Why don't we look for a way
00:21:22.140 | "that you can stay current with your skills, your career,
00:21:25.580 | "and exercise it in a way that allows you to be a mom?"
00:21:29.340 | Because you'll never get back...
00:21:31.220 | See, as I look at it, your wife will never get back
00:21:36.220 | the first five years of her children's life.
00:21:38.700 | She can always go and work five more years in a career.
00:21:44.180 | And so why not just simply do whatever's needed
00:21:48.300 | to keep her training current, her licenses current, et cetera,
00:21:51.820 | but focus on the irreplaceable thing of the family
00:21:56.820 | during these years that you never get back,
00:22:00.940 | and then plan to practice medicine for longer.
00:22:03.820 | It just doesn't seem to me, from my worldview,
00:22:06.660 | it just doesn't, more money doesn't seem worth it
00:22:10.220 | if it comes at a cost to a family.
00:22:12.900 | Now, my point would be, however,
00:22:15.020 | that what I would try to do is I would try to find
00:22:17.860 | a third solution that doesn't come
00:22:20.000 | with a cost to the family.
00:22:21.660 | And so maybe that third solution
00:22:24.780 | is that she works two days a week,
00:22:27.900 | and that way she has enough time with the family,
00:22:30.320 | but then you're available in the other two days a week,
00:22:32.080 | or you find a really good solution for the children
00:22:33.980 | that's not just full-time them out there.
00:22:36.400 | Or maybe she becomes a researcher and a writer,
00:22:39.540 | and that's something that in her research and her writing,
00:22:42.220 | she can do while she's with the children,
00:22:44.980 | or you can do together as a team.
00:22:46.980 | Maybe you build a family business where you work together.
00:22:50.140 | Those are the kinds of solutions that I'm always drawn to,
00:22:52.380 | because I like to make money.
00:22:54.580 | I like to make money, and I think it's fun.
00:22:56.380 | I think having nice cars and big houses
00:22:58.780 | and being able to afford cool things
00:23:01.000 | for the children is fun.
00:23:02.960 | And if you have the ability to do that,
00:23:04.620 | then I say go for it.
00:23:05.920 | But I'm never gonna do it if it costs me something.
00:23:10.400 | I'm never gonna go for the money
00:23:12.440 | if it costs me something that I can't get back.
00:23:15.220 | So I don't know exactly how to do it,
00:23:17.200 | but that's what I would be looking for,
00:23:18.560 | is I would talk about it,
00:23:20.880 | I would discuss and discern what's best for our children,
00:23:23.920 | and then I would try to make a plan through it
00:23:25.700 | that allows us to get some of each thing.
00:23:27.840 | So if she works a couple days a week,
00:23:29.920 | but she makes $100,000 a year,
00:23:32.300 | I mean, that's more money than you need.
00:23:33.920 | And if you're there in the house
00:23:37.440 | the two days that she's working, then that's fine, right?
00:23:40.280 | It's not like 168 hours has to be the absolute standard,
00:23:44.040 | but trying to navigate through it in some way
00:23:46.080 | where we recognize that you will never get this time
00:23:50.000 | and relationship with your children back.
00:23:52.920 | And the only thing that you get in exchange
00:23:54.880 | for going to the workforce is more money.
00:23:56.920 | Well, what do you need the money for?
00:23:59.080 | And as long as we prioritize the children
00:24:03.200 | as being really important,
00:24:04.400 | and we don't prioritize the money
00:24:06.000 | as being supremely important,
00:24:07.840 | then I'm confident that you can make the best decision
00:24:10.460 | for your family based upon the circumstances
00:24:12.380 | that you actually face.
00:24:13.660 | - Yeah.
00:24:18.120 | Yeah, I appreciate that perspective.
00:24:20.680 | I mean, I probably have thought of it that way,
00:24:23.760 | but never, I don't think I've heard it.
00:24:27.280 | Verbalize that way.
00:24:28.600 | - I'm gonna interrupt you just for a moment.
00:24:31.560 | The thing that obviously gets me going
00:24:35.080 | is what bothers me substantially
00:24:37.480 | is that in our modern world,
00:24:39.540 | the basic criteria that people use for everything is money.
00:24:44.440 | And they measure everything in terms of dollar earning.
00:24:47.560 | And this is especially damaging to women
00:24:50.940 | because in the wake of the feminist revolution,
00:24:53.580 | the first and second wave feminists
00:24:56.640 | looked to a career and to earning an income
00:25:01.080 | as a primary metric of proving equality
00:25:04.340 | and or superiority with men.
00:25:06.600 | And so what has happened is that many times,
00:25:09.540 | many women have come to basically analyze themselves
00:25:13.320 | and value themselves based upon money.
00:25:16.480 | Now, certainly men do that as well,
00:25:19.480 | but the pressure is intense on women
00:25:22.320 | because it's very difficult for many modern women,
00:25:26.400 | especially young, intelligent, capable women
00:25:31.200 | to value themselves based upon something other than money.
00:25:34.560 | And that's why in the show that you referenced,
00:25:36.680 | why I used financial kind of calculations
00:25:41.320 | to try to demonstrate that many of these things
00:25:44.640 | that I value that my wife does
00:25:46.200 | can actually be denominated in money.
00:25:50.080 | But it's stupid to judge everything by money.
00:25:53.680 | We all know that it's stupid
00:25:55.720 | and yet we still do it day after day.
00:25:57.920 | I don't have worth because of my worth and my worthiness
00:26:02.920 | and my value as a person
00:26:05.520 | is not based upon how much money I generate.
00:26:09.280 | My worth and my value as a person
00:26:11.360 | is based upon my identity
00:26:14.560 | as being an image bearer of God himself.
00:26:18.080 | That's what makes a slave and a slave master
00:26:21.760 | both of equal worth.
00:26:23.380 | That's what makes an employer and employee
00:26:25.920 | both of equal worth.
00:26:27.400 | That's what makes a ditch digger and a doctor
00:26:30.360 | both of equal worth.
00:26:31.780 | It's the imago dei.
00:26:32.720 | It's the fact that they are a human
00:26:34.120 | and as a human, they are fundamentally valuable
00:26:38.120 | because of their humanness.
00:26:40.740 | We don't judge people and say,
00:26:42.560 | well, that doctor over there is a more important person
00:26:45.720 | than the ditch digger
00:26:46.920 | because the doctor makes more money
00:26:49.120 | except in the modern United States of America
00:26:51.040 | and the modern capitalist system
00:26:52.480 | where we basically prefer the rich over the poor
00:26:55.160 | and we bow down to the rich
00:26:56.520 | and we bow down to the people who have all the money
00:26:58.400 | and we neglect the people who are poor
00:27:00.480 | because of this corrupt standard.
00:27:02.920 | Now, I'm fine with making money.
00:27:05.200 | I want there to be a,
00:27:07.640 | I want there to be all of us
00:27:09.640 | to achieve to our maximum potential,
00:27:15.040 | to grow as much as possible.
00:27:17.080 | And I want all of us to earn as much money as possible
00:27:20.680 | in a free market, non-coercive, capitalist society.
00:27:25.320 | Money is one way that we can assess the value that's brought
00:27:28.520 | not to everything, but to many things in life.
00:27:31.880 | And so it's useful.
00:27:33.120 | It's a good metric and it's a good barometer,
00:27:35.600 | but it cannot be the primary ethic that we judge people by.
00:27:39.320 | I cannot prefer the rich man and ignore the poor man
00:27:44.640 | just because it's rich and poor.
00:27:46.080 | That's immoral.
00:27:47.400 | That's absolutely immoral.
00:27:48.920 | And so what happens is that in the modern society,
00:27:53.000 | because of the inability of people to think ethically
00:27:57.800 | and to appreciate somebody for their value
00:28:00.120 | and their worth and their dignity as a human,
00:28:03.960 | and then to appreciate the full scope
00:28:06.000 | of their value as a human,
00:28:09.440 | everything just comes down to how much money you make.
00:28:11.800 | And it's the thinnest, stupidest metric to ever use
00:28:16.480 | to judge a person's value.
00:28:18.240 | It's a useful metric for yourself
00:28:20.380 | if you're working in a career where you can say,
00:28:23.380 | I'm making more money because I've served more people.
00:28:27.400 | I track how much money I make because I believe my goal
00:28:31.000 | is to serve more people and to serve them more effectively.
00:28:34.160 | And one objective metric that I can use
00:28:36.560 | is how much money am I earning?
00:28:38.560 | Because in order for me to earn more money,
00:28:40.560 | I have to serve more people
00:28:41.880 | and serve people more effectively.
00:28:43.800 | But it's just one metric among many
00:28:45.760 | that I need to use to track my success.
00:28:48.120 | And it's a very clumsy metric.
00:28:50.320 | So I don't know how to break through to a broken society
00:28:55.320 | that prefers the rich and denigrates the poor
00:28:59.120 | and doesn't esteem people based upon their worth as human
00:29:02.000 | other than to use the extreme examples.
00:29:03.620 | We all know that when you sit down and write your eulogy,
00:29:07.200 | you don't sit down and say,
00:29:09.080 | and imagine that your best friend is gonna say,
00:29:11.040 | well, Joshua Sheets made $450,000 per year.
00:29:14.820 | It's absurd, it's stupid.
00:29:17.540 | You know that there's a non-financial quality
00:29:20.640 | that you want someone to talk about.
00:29:23.240 | And so to the extent that you can achieve
00:29:27.060 | those non-financial qualities and the financial benefits,
00:29:30.540 | go for it.
00:29:31.840 | But if it ever costs me a non-financial quality
00:29:34.920 | to have a financial benefit, price is too high.
00:29:38.080 | Money can always, you can always get more money.
00:29:39.960 | Money is the ultimate replaceable resource,
00:29:43.080 | the ultimate renewable resource.
00:29:44.560 | And it's one of the, once you get over a certain point,
00:29:47.320 | it's one of the least impactful.
00:29:48.460 | And that's another point to drive home for you.
00:29:51.280 | Let's say that you were disabled, Tim.
00:29:55.520 | You couldn't work, okay?
00:29:57.480 | You're disabled.
00:29:59.160 | Would your situation in your household be fairly easy
00:30:02.440 | to figure out the right thing to do?
00:30:07.760 | - Yeah. - Be obvious, right?
00:30:09.440 | You can't work.
00:30:10.600 | Your wife has to work
00:30:11.840 | and she has to support the household.
00:30:13.600 | And so she would do everything she could
00:30:16.560 | to be effective as a mother and as a wife,
00:30:19.080 | but she has to go and she has to earn an income.
00:30:21.600 | And you're gonna do everything you can
00:30:23.600 | to fulfill her role, to be a dad
00:30:28.600 | to the extent of your physical capabilities
00:30:30.800 | and to love your children.
00:30:32.520 | But you're not in that situation.
00:30:33.880 | You're in a situation where you could live
00:30:35.580 | perfectly well on your income.
00:30:37.600 | You could live perfectly well on her income.
00:30:39.640 | And so it's much harder for you guys.
00:30:42.840 | So just recognize that.
00:30:44.160 | We're not talking here about somebody who's destitute.
00:30:49.320 | Your income is almost double the median income
00:30:51.960 | in the United States of America.
00:30:53.800 | Her income is quadrupled to quintuple the median income
00:30:58.200 | in the United States of America.
00:30:59.720 | So this is a real first world rich person problem.
00:31:02.800 | And thus you'll have to talk about the solutions.
00:31:06.820 | Look at your children, see what needs your children are,
00:31:09.400 | consider what your visions are as a family,
00:31:11.600 | how they're performing, how they're thriving,
00:31:14.840 | and come to a solution together.
00:31:18.040 | My only plea with you is that you don't consider money
00:31:21.520 | until after you consider what you believe as a family
00:31:24.100 | is best for your children and best for your family.
00:31:26.660 | - Great, yeah, we will certainly do that.
00:31:32.900 | - Let me ask you, let me pivot it, okay,
00:31:36.240 | to try to put this home in the most graphic way that I can.
00:31:39.840 | Let's say that, let's say that,
00:31:46.200 | both for your wife, let's say that she starts this business
00:31:51.360 | and she makes a net income of $300,000
00:31:54.880 | for the next five years, right?
00:31:58.280 | $300,000 for the next five years.
00:32:00.560 | She earns a million and a half dollars
00:32:01.940 | over the next five years.
00:32:04.240 | But for some reason, and I don't think
00:32:06.200 | that there is this there, I'm just trying to prove
00:32:08.560 | my point about priority of importance.
00:32:12.880 | For some reason, because of the fact
00:32:15.660 | that she's starting this new business
00:32:17.080 | and making all this money,
00:32:18.400 | it costs the life of your youngest child.
00:32:21.360 | And five years from now, your child is dead.
00:32:23.560 | Would you do the, would you earn the $1.5 million?
00:32:28.480 | Or would you save the life of your child?
00:32:33.520 | - Certainly not.
00:32:34.440 | - Right, nobody would.
00:32:35.640 | Now, no, we're not, obviously,
00:32:37.840 | we're not dealing in a situation where
00:32:39.680 | putting your child in daycare is gonna kill 'em.
00:32:42.120 | No, it's not.
00:32:43.040 | But if you start with what's best for my child,
00:32:47.480 | if you wouldn't suffer the death of your child
00:32:53.140 | to earn $1.5 million, what about the success of your child?
00:32:58.140 | So would $1.5 million be worth it
00:33:02.460 | if your child achieved at a slightly less rate
00:33:05.920 | than they possibly could achieve?
00:33:08.760 | Or would perhaps, let's say that we're just measuring
00:33:12.120 | in terms of relationship, and the possible relationship
00:33:15.080 | that you could have with your children
00:33:16.360 | and that your wife could have with your children,
00:33:17.800 | the possible family dynamics that you could have
00:33:20.400 | as a family are a level of a 10.
00:33:25.280 | But if you go and you earn the $1.5 million,
00:33:28.440 | it's gonna reduce the quality of your family life
00:33:31.760 | to a six.
00:33:33.400 | But that six is gonna go throughout life.
00:33:35.020 | So maybe you could have really loving relationships,
00:33:38.360 | you could have intimate relationships
00:33:40.340 | where there's total peace and total happiness,
00:33:43.640 | and you have a rich relationship of respect
00:33:48.060 | and of love with your children, and that's a 10.
00:33:50.400 | You play with this however you want,
00:33:52.820 | but just aim out what the 10 is.
00:33:55.020 | And then say, well, instead of love,
00:33:58.220 | we could have care, we could have liking.
00:34:02.460 | And instead of rich respect, we could have toleration.
00:34:07.460 | Instead of very well-behaved children,
00:34:12.580 | we could have children that are sort of behaved,
00:34:15.620 | not entirely insubordinate.
00:34:17.860 | Instead of being able to nurture our children
00:34:22.380 | and train them in the way they should go in everything,
00:34:26.180 | we'll have an input level of 20%.
00:34:30.260 | Well, fast forward.
00:34:31.520 | You're 50 years old, your children are adults,
00:34:35.260 | you're 60 years old, you're 70 years old.
00:34:38.140 | And so you achieved results of a six or a seven
00:34:40.980 | instead of a 10.
00:34:41.980 | Is that worth $1.5 million?
00:34:44.420 | And you don't have to answer,
00:34:45.300 | 'cause of course that's a very personal question.
00:34:48.700 | But that's how I look at it,
00:34:50.440 | is that if I know something is ideal,
00:34:53.940 | then let me find a way to get something that's ideal.
00:34:56.580 | And for me, the reason why children
00:34:58.060 | and doing the best that I can as a parent is important
00:35:02.020 | is because there's probably not gonna be
00:35:05.180 | that many people in my life
00:35:07.140 | who are gonna truly love and support me
00:35:10.180 | and care for me throughout my entire lifetime.
00:35:14.060 | We're all fortunate if at the end of our life,
00:35:17.700 | we're sitting there at our funeral,
00:35:19.020 | if there's a handful of really true, genuine, good friends,
00:35:23.640 | we're fortunate.
00:35:24.980 | Now, there might be more attendees at a funeral,
00:35:27.540 | but a really good, really close friends are a handful.
00:35:31.820 | And I can't guarantee
00:35:33.140 | that I'll have those kinds of friends.
00:35:34.420 | I can do my best, I wanna be that kind of friend,
00:35:36.460 | and in time, they should develop,
00:35:37.940 | and I should be able to maintain them through the years.
00:35:40.740 | But I do know for a fact
00:35:43.820 | that I want my children to be some of my best friends.
00:35:47.100 | My own father is one of my closest friends.
00:35:51.900 | Now, we don't have the kind of chummy relationship
00:35:54.320 | that I have with other friends,
00:35:56.960 | which there's still a respect,
00:35:59.280 | but I feel closer to him
00:36:01.080 | in terms of my relationship with him
00:36:03.440 | than I do with almost anyone else.
00:36:05.140 | And with my own mother, the same thing.
00:36:06.780 | I feel I can share with total honesty
00:36:09.480 | and total sincerity and total vulnerability.
00:36:12.400 | I respect them and I ask for their advice, I care for them.
00:36:15.960 | And I would sacrifice anything in my life to care for them
00:36:20.160 | as they got older, as they get older.
00:36:22.340 | And they have that relationship, more or less,
00:36:24.840 | with most of my siblings, not all to the same degree,
00:36:27.960 | but they have that relationship with more or less.
00:36:30.900 | So, you know, one of my sisters is dead,
00:36:33.280 | but if you have six children that all care for you,
00:36:36.960 | they're your best friends.
00:36:38.320 | My parents have, I don't know, 16, 17 grandchildren,
00:36:42.040 | I can't remember.
00:36:42.880 | Anyway, they have a lot of grandchildren
00:36:44.360 | at this point in time.
00:36:45.920 | And you can build that same relationship
00:36:47.720 | with your grandchildren.
00:36:48.700 | And so when you talk about happiness scale
00:36:50.700 | and a happiness scale of life,
00:36:52.900 | I'm not gonna, if I had to choose
00:36:54.960 | between the $1.5 million just so I can,
00:36:57.500 | I don't know, live in a fancier house,
00:37:01.820 | versus having the kind of relationship with my children
00:37:04.760 | that I wanna have when they're young
00:37:06.240 | and when I have when they're older,
00:37:07.920 | and then seeing my children and being proud of who they are
00:37:10.480 | and being proud of their character
00:37:11.600 | and being proud of how I've trained them
00:37:13.120 | and helped them and served them,
00:37:16.120 | to me, it's no comparison.
00:37:19.380 | There's just no,
00:37:20.580 | the return on money is so thin and easily understood,
00:37:27.140 | versus the return on investing in people, in children,
00:37:32.460 | which is so rich and so lifelong
00:37:36.840 | that when I imagine my eulogy being said at my children,
00:37:40.220 | I don't picture how much money I earned,
00:37:44.540 | I picture my children delivering that address
00:37:49.000 | and talking about the experiences
00:37:51.520 | and the way that I impacted their life
00:37:53.320 | and the way that I modeled a life well lived before them
00:37:57.060 | so that they'll take that.
00:37:58.240 | And my goal is that, my goal is to live such a life,
00:38:01.880 | I don't know if I'll achieve this, but this is my goal.
00:38:04.080 | My goal is to live a life that is so inspiring
00:38:09.080 | to my children that when my children's children's children
00:38:14.220 | are being trained, they'll still look back to my example.
00:38:18.700 | That's my goal.
00:38:19.900 | Now, I don't know if I can achieve it,
00:38:21.340 | but I do know that I can't achieve it
00:38:23.660 | if I say, well, I'm gonna make money.
00:38:25.980 | 'Cause I can look throughout the world
00:38:27.320 | and I can find a whole lot of people
00:38:30.380 | who made a whole lot of money,
00:38:32.620 | whose children respect their ability to make money,
00:38:34.780 | but they don't say, I wanna be just like that.
00:38:37.580 | And I want my children to say, I wanna be just like that.
00:38:41.340 | So I've talked about it, I've ranted about it
00:38:44.440 | kind of in every direction that I can come at it,
00:38:46.400 | but that to me is why it matters.
00:38:48.280 | Because the thing that goes into eternity
00:38:50.280 | is the souls of people.
00:38:52.320 | And the people that I have the most opportunity to impact
00:38:55.740 | are the souls of my children.
00:38:57.440 | It's a blessing if I can encourage
00:38:59.000 | another couple people, right?
00:39:00.480 | I love the fact that I can encourage other people
00:39:03.960 | through this podcast.
00:39:05.480 | I love the fact that I can go
00:39:06.920 | and I can encourage my next door neighbor
00:39:08.680 | and I can love my neighbor.
00:39:10.240 | But the people who are the most important in my life,
00:39:13.100 | the people who I'm accountable to God for,
00:39:15.940 | my wife and my children.
00:39:18.340 | And so those are the souls that my job is to impact.
00:39:21.960 | So with as long as that ethic is in place clearly,
00:39:26.100 | then I believe that thoughtful, godly parents
00:39:29.420 | will look at their situation, ask God for wisdom
00:39:32.820 | and say, what's best for us and what's best for our children
00:39:35.820 | and make the proper decision.
00:39:37.180 | And I believe that those decisions
00:39:38.940 | can be different for different people.
00:39:40.880 | I don't see how I could say to you,
00:39:43.160 | here's what you need to do in your situation.
00:39:45.480 | Your situation might be different than mine
00:39:48.160 | and we might make different decisions.
00:39:49.820 | But as long as that ethic is there
00:39:51.720 | and as long as we have our priorities straight,
00:39:53.800 | then as parents, you and your wife
00:39:55.200 | will be able to make the best decision for your family,
00:39:57.100 | whatever that is.
00:39:58.040 | - Okay, yeah, I really appreciate the insight.
00:40:05.560 | There's a lot more variables that would take forever
00:40:09.260 | to go into and various things that we have to consider
00:40:12.540 | before we make a decision either way.
00:40:15.360 | But I mean, you've really reinforced a lot of what
00:40:20.180 | I already believe for the most part.
00:40:22.220 | - Good, good.
00:40:23.060 | And I don't even think necessarily that,
00:40:25.020 | especially in a public format like this,
00:40:26.380 | I don't think you should even talk about those variables
00:40:28.780 | publicly because they're personal and they're intimate.
00:40:32.900 | They have to do with your dreams, right?
00:40:34.880 | Your wife's dreams.
00:40:36.640 | When I was talking about being married to a doctor,
00:40:39.020 | one of the things that I,
00:40:41.340 | the reason I feel like I dodged a bullet
00:40:43.420 | in not winding up in a relationship
00:40:47.860 | with either of those two girls that I was interested in
00:40:51.540 | was because for them,
00:40:53.140 | a very important part of their dreams from girlhood,
00:40:55.900 | especially one of them, was to be a doctor.
00:40:58.940 | And it was so fundamentally a part of her identity
00:41:01.940 | that I can't see how I would ever,
00:41:05.580 | the only thing I would,
00:41:08.300 | I can't see how I would ever have to be able to
00:41:10.740 | or want to kind of interfere with that.
00:41:13.260 | It was her girlhood dream.
00:41:14.980 | All I would do is I would say,
00:41:16.700 | "Lord, if you want her to have another dream
00:41:19.620 | "or you want her to change that, you gotta do it."
00:41:21.140 | I couldn't open my mouth.
00:41:22.620 | And I was talking to my wife about this and I said,
00:41:25.300 | the reason is because as a husband, right?
00:41:27.020 | One of the things that you do as a husband
00:41:29.140 | is you care for your wife.
00:41:31.760 | And part of that means you want your wife to experience
00:41:36.140 | the fulfillment of all of her dreams.
00:41:37.940 | You want your wife to experience,
00:41:39.980 | to be richly successful.
00:41:44.460 | And so you're going to support her.
00:41:48.100 | And so if I were in that, caught in that situation
00:41:51.380 | where my wife's dreams involved medicine
00:41:55.340 | and that was so deeply important to her,
00:41:57.460 | it wasn't just a part-time thing.
00:41:58.660 | It wasn't like, well, okay, it's fine.
00:42:00.280 | But this was with one of those girls,
00:42:01.760 | it's just a fundamental part of her identity.
00:42:04.500 | What could I do other than say,
00:42:07.620 | I want you to have what you want and support her in that.
00:42:11.100 | But yet what I see now from years down the road
00:42:13.940 | that I didn't when I was in that situation
00:42:16.180 | was how hard that would have been
00:42:18.740 | based upon some of my vision.
00:42:22.380 | Now, I haven't talked to her in years.
00:42:24.340 | In time, people change.
00:42:25.580 | You gotta come to a shared vision.
00:42:27.660 | There's a reason why I'm not married to her.
00:42:29.540 | But that's the challenge that you're in
00:42:31.960 | is you've got to look and say,
00:42:34.140 | what's in the best interest of my wife
00:42:36.280 | and how do I support her
00:42:38.120 | so that she can achieve the things that she wants to do?
00:42:40.780 | And then is there a way that we can do this?
00:42:43.700 | And we have to do it in a way that's best for our family.
00:42:45.720 | That's my only point.
00:42:46.560 | We have to do it in a way that's best for our family.
00:42:49.020 | My closing comment to you,
00:42:50.700 | if you decide that you can't do a career,
00:42:55.060 | if you can't decide that you can't do a big business
00:42:59.500 | and also get a 10, which you may be able to,
00:43:02.620 | I'm not saying you can't,
00:43:03.980 | but if you can't also get a 10
00:43:05.500 | and feel really confident that you're doing
00:43:07.180 | what you believe is in the best interest of your family,
00:43:09.480 | just simply remember that careers can always be done.
00:43:12.940 | There's not anything that's going to fundamentally change
00:43:16.020 | about the need for doctors five years from now
00:43:20.860 | or 10 years from now.
00:43:22.100 | And the time horizon that you have with children
00:43:26.340 | is so short.
00:43:28.860 | You basically have, you have a few years.
00:43:31.460 | If you go and you study
00:43:32.300 | the early child development statistics,
00:43:35.020 | the vast majority of a child's vocabulary
00:43:37.140 | is formed within the first few years.
00:43:39.000 | The person who teaches a child vocabulary
00:43:40.740 | teaches them how to think.
00:43:42.740 | The vast majority of a child's character
00:43:45.120 | is established within the first few years.
00:43:47.740 | And then it's not the vast majority,
00:43:50.180 | but a huge amount of the child's personality,
00:43:53.020 | character, and basic habits
00:43:54.820 | and things like ability to learn, manners, et cetera,
00:43:58.780 | those are all very early childhood things.
00:44:01.660 | By the time you get to a child who's seven, eight, nine, 10,
00:44:05.460 | there's not a lot that's gonna change for that person.
00:44:09.660 | And then once they reach that,
00:44:10.740 | they learn a different style of learning
00:44:12.540 | where they can learn to do self-learning,
00:44:15.700 | where they can read a book and say,
00:44:16.620 | "Okay, I'm gonna change this thing about myself."
00:44:18.920 | The most important thing in those early years
00:44:21.900 | is the behavior that's modeled by mom and dad,
00:44:25.140 | the way that mom and dad speak,
00:44:27.100 | the language that you speak,
00:44:28.780 | the accent that you use or don't use,
00:44:32.780 | the type of words that you use,
00:44:34.120 | the type of concepts that you speak about.
00:44:37.540 | And it's not really anything that can be done
00:44:39.580 | except naturally.
00:44:40.940 | And so that's my great fear,
00:44:42.660 | is often that people underappreciate
00:44:45.140 | how important just the physical presence is
00:44:47.760 | with mom and dad to observe how they live their life
00:44:50.580 | and to observe what we as a family do
00:44:52.860 | and what we as a family don't do.
00:44:54.460 | And they wind up outsourcing that most important task
00:44:58.420 | to a person who is often poorly paid
00:45:02.100 | and is not necessarily chosen
00:45:04.660 | based upon the character that they have
00:45:07.660 | and the values that they have, et cetera.
00:45:09.300 | Now, you can do this better,
00:45:10.340 | Christian school versus non-Christian school,
00:45:13.180 | choosing an elite daycare versus a run-of-the-mill daycare.
00:45:17.680 | But that's why those early years are so important.
00:45:22.420 | But it's a very narrow window of time.
00:45:24.380 | 10-year-old, you could put a 10-year-old in a school
00:45:26.460 | and it can thrive, right?
00:45:28.060 | Two-year-old, I'm not convinced.
00:45:31.660 | So one way or the other,
00:45:33.980 | may God give you wisdom in your situation
00:45:36.660 | to decide what's best for your family.
00:45:41.900 | But that's how I see the world.
00:45:43.460 | Anything else, Tim? - I appreciate that.
00:45:45.780 | Thank you.
00:45:47.300 | No, that's it.
00:45:48.140 | Thank you so much.
00:45:49.180 | - All right, well, quite the interesting call there.
00:45:52.460 | Tim was our only caller for today,
00:45:53.540 | so I'll just wrap up the Q&A show with that.
00:45:56.140 | My only point, and I hope that,
00:45:58.200 | I don't need to say it again, I've been clear enough.
00:46:02.220 | Prioritize people.
00:46:05.300 | I'm convinced that if you prioritize people,
00:46:08.340 | they're souls, right?
00:46:09.300 | The importance of a soul, the inestimable value.
00:46:12.200 | Prioritize people from the earliest of ages to the oldest.
00:46:16.780 | If you prioritize people, you'll never go wrong.
00:46:19.700 | You may not be as rich as you would otherwise be
00:46:22.900 | in financial wealth, but I'm convinced you'll be far richer
00:46:27.060 | in the things that matter.
00:46:28.360 | I always, when I was younger, I traveled alone sometimes.
00:46:35.420 | And some people like to travel alone.
00:46:37.500 | There are things that are nice about it.
00:46:39.380 | I think that, you know, as a parent of four,
00:46:41.860 | I have to admit that sometimes when I travel alone,
00:46:46.740 | you think, wow, this is nice, right?
00:46:48.340 | I can just come and go.
00:46:49.580 | I can go to a restaurant and just sit down
00:46:50.980 | and order what I want.
00:46:51.820 | I don't have to order five meals.
00:46:53.740 | There are some nice things.
00:46:54.900 | But one of the things I learned when I was young
00:46:56.820 | is traveling alone, I just assumed not travel.
00:47:00.700 | It wasn't interesting to me.
00:47:02.300 | I remember one time I took a trip,
00:47:04.240 | doesn't matter where,
00:47:07.480 | I just learned that I didn't wanna travel alone.
00:47:10.580 | And I've seen again and again and again
00:47:12.540 | how when you have something nice,
00:47:14.260 | you wanna share it with someone.
00:47:16.020 | If you have a nice car,
00:47:17.100 | I get joy from sharing something nice.
00:47:19.460 | If I have a nice fishing rod,
00:47:22.740 | I'm not the kind of guy that enjoys going out in a boat
00:47:24.980 | and saying, look, I got a fancy boat
00:47:26.300 | and a fancy fishing rod.
00:47:27.740 | I'm the kind of guy who wants a boat full of people
00:47:30.140 | and a bunch of people having fun.
00:47:31.440 | That's where I derive my joy from.
00:47:34.420 | And I've always used those pictures as being pretty clear.
00:47:37.660 | If I had to choose between a $50,000 bass boat
00:47:41.760 | that I'm in alone versus a $500 John boat
00:47:46.760 | that I got a couple of friends out there with me,
00:47:51.500 | I'll take the John boat and the friends.
00:47:53.620 | And so I think that for me at least,
00:47:56.200 | it's a pretty powerful metaphor between life and money.
00:47:59.000 | It's fun to have money to buy big fancy boats
00:48:04.880 | and take your friends on fun adventures.
00:48:06.760 | It's fun.
00:48:07.840 | And I'm all for it.
00:48:08.680 | I think you can do it.
00:48:09.640 | I think you can do it without sacrificing
00:48:12.160 | the things that are at home.
00:48:13.440 | But if I have to choose between them,
00:48:15.240 | I'm gonna choose people over money every time.
00:48:17.780 | And I believe that if you think about the people
00:48:21.200 | that you respect and admire,
00:48:22.920 | they probably exhibit that character as well.
00:48:27.500 | Well, if you and I are gonna be people
00:48:30.680 | that others are gonna respect and admire,
00:48:33.240 | then we gotta make those intentional decisions.
00:48:35.720 | Look for the third way in anything.
00:48:37.640 | Look for the way that you can do well financially
00:48:41.480 | and also simultaneously.
00:48:43.200 | You can do well financially and simultaneously spend time.
00:48:48.880 | And that's where I'm convinced.
00:48:50.840 | Obviously I'm biased,
00:48:52.920 | but I'm convinced the value of the lifestyle
00:48:55.840 | that I'm modeling.
00:48:57.120 | I was yesterday working on some of my training.
00:49:01.060 | I have a bunch of goals and I'm taking some business courses.
00:49:05.960 | I'm taking some music courses this year,
00:49:09.720 | taking some language courses,
00:49:11.640 | and really just working hard to develop my skills.
00:49:15.040 | And I was just thinking about how,
00:49:16.640 | because one of the things that I do
00:49:18.160 | is I share everything with my children.
00:49:20.120 | My eldest child is finally at a point
00:49:22.760 | where he's right on the cusp of being able to go with me
00:49:25.840 | and not severely hinder me on a business trip.
00:49:29.160 | I don't ever plan to travel alone on business again
00:49:31.720 | in my life.
00:49:33.060 | I don't ever plan to go to a seminar,
00:49:34.880 | to a course, or to a conference
00:49:36.760 | and not take at least one of my children,
00:49:38.840 | if not multiple of my children.
00:49:40.280 | And so when I think about,
00:49:41.640 | I was considering the quality of the education
00:49:44.120 | that I'm taking.
00:49:45.400 | These teachers that I've got are the best in the world.
00:49:48.400 | I chose them because of the best in the world.
00:49:50.040 | And with the miracle of modern communications technology,
00:49:53.680 | where the best teacher in the world
00:49:55.660 | can teach to a vast audience,
00:49:58.480 | it allows you to be an elite level learner
00:50:01.960 | from the comfort of your own home.
00:50:04.840 | When you bring this in with your children,
00:50:06.200 | what it means is that because I include my children
00:50:08.560 | in my education to the extent that they're interested,
00:50:11.760 | it means that my children have an elite level education
00:50:14.480 | and it doesn't cost anything more.
00:50:16.280 | And when I think about the,
00:50:18.040 | saying, okay, I'm gonna go stick them in,
00:50:20.780 | insert random local institution here
00:50:23.960 | where they just have whoever happens to be hired by that
00:50:27.040 | versus the elite level education,
00:50:28.900 | it's non-replaceable.
00:50:32.480 | And then the actual experience of building something
00:50:35.840 | like a family business.
00:50:38.000 | My favorite structure for people who are inclined
00:50:41.200 | is have a family business
00:50:42.960 | where mom and dad both work in the business,
00:50:45.760 | work full-time in the business,
00:50:47.360 | and the children are involved in that.
00:50:49.100 | Because now you have the opportunity
00:50:51.400 | for that very important education
00:50:53.800 | and it can be done very, very profitably.
00:50:57.120 | So now we're not choosing between money or relationships,
00:51:01.680 | it's both and, it's money and relationships.
00:51:05.120 | And I believe that those activities
00:51:06.840 | are actually important for children to be involved in.
00:51:11.000 | I think one of the reasons
00:51:12.040 | why people don't spend more time with children
00:51:13.960 | is that they don't know what to do
00:51:16.880 | 'cause we're so used to entertaining children,
00:51:18.720 | what, are we gonna sit around and stare at each other?
00:51:21.240 | And to me, that's the wrong thing,
00:51:23.520 | is that one of the reasons why we need important work,
00:51:28.440 | why we need work is so that our children
00:51:31.800 | can be involved in that work.
00:51:33.480 | And that's what one of the things that I didn't like
00:51:35.440 | about my previous career was in an office environment.
00:51:37.680 | And yeah, could I have brought my children in
00:51:39.640 | to some extent, but not in any meaningful way.
00:51:42.800 | But if you have some kind of family business
00:51:45.020 | or if you have jobs that fit into that,
00:51:47.340 | involve your children in that.
00:51:48.520 | I don't want my children to sit around
00:51:49.840 | and be entertained all the time, I want them to work.
00:51:52.440 | Because it's in that process of doing that work
00:51:55.640 | that they learn a lot of those lessons.
00:51:58.680 | It's in the process of working with mom and dad
00:52:00.840 | that they see how mom and dad react,
00:52:02.360 | the kind of language that mom and dad use, et cetera,
00:52:04.280 | all those things that I previously talked about.
00:52:06.320 | So I don't believe that you have to choose.
00:52:09.020 | The only thing that, just that if you did have to choose,
00:52:12.080 | you prioritize the children and the people.
00:52:14.600 | And what I see is that with a little bit of thoughtful
00:52:19.040 | and creative effort, many families who desire something
00:52:25.140 | where their children can be involved can build that.
00:52:28.920 | And so consider it when you choose a career,
00:52:32.240 | consider it when you choose things.
00:52:35.040 | And then if you're already kind of stuck in something
00:52:38.220 | or committed to something, that's okay.
00:52:40.380 | Just within that context, do the best you can
00:52:43.380 | to generate, to do the best you can in those circumstances.
00:52:48.380 | I would never choose to be a truck driver.
00:52:51.300 | I see that as a bad, unless I had to,
00:52:53.940 | because we were starving on the street.
00:52:56.100 | I don't see that as a lifestyle that's conducive
00:52:58.540 | to a healthy family life.
00:52:59.620 | Me, you know, sleeping at a truck stop six nights a week
00:53:03.160 | or 13 nights out of every two weeks.
00:53:05.420 | If I were a truck driver, I'd have one of my kids with me
00:53:07.620 | as soon as I could.
00:53:08.460 | We'd do a lot of stuff in the car.
00:53:11.500 | And I'd take advantage of the modern technology
00:53:13.180 | to be as connected as I could, et cetera.
00:53:15.440 | So all of us face different circumstances,
00:53:18.700 | but many times we're in circumstances
00:53:21.700 | due to a series of decisions that we made inadvisably.
00:53:25.660 | I'm stuck in a career.
00:53:27.000 | It's a career that's gonna have bad results
00:53:29.140 | for something that matters to me.
00:53:31.940 | Well, change, get a new career, redesign your business,
00:53:34.900 | redesign your job, redesign your life.
00:53:37.260 | Anybody can do it.
00:53:39.460 | But in the context, just make the best decisions
00:53:43.140 | that you can and may God give you wisdom.
00:53:45.280 | Recognize that at the end of your life,
00:53:49.100 | the work that you do with your children,
00:53:51.700 | how you care for your children,
00:53:53.060 | how you raise your children,
00:53:54.380 | the opportunities that you expose your children,
00:53:56.660 | the relationship that you have with your parents,
00:53:58.980 | how you care for your parents, how you support them,
00:54:01.840 | the kind of rich texture that you build
00:54:04.740 | to those relationships, the kind of sibling that you are,
00:54:07.700 | the relationships with your siblings,
00:54:10.240 | the kind of neighbor that you are,
00:54:11.460 | the kind of friend that you are,
00:54:13.180 | the kind of employer or employee that you are.
00:54:16.100 | Those are the things that when you're on your deathbed
00:54:18.680 | and you're reflecting back,
00:54:20.620 | you wanna be satisfied with the decisions that you made.
00:54:23.700 | And so the money can come, the money can go,
00:54:27.100 | but don't harm those things that deeply matter.
00:54:31.740 | Thank you for listening to today's Q&A show.
00:54:33.820 | Today, as you see, we only had one caller.
00:54:35.980 | I'd love to have more callers.
00:54:36.900 | I'd love to have a bunch more of you join
00:54:38.260 | on the Patreon site.
00:54:39.460 | Go to patreon.com/radicalpersonalfinance,
00:54:42.380 | patreon.com/radicalpersonalfinance.
00:54:44.620 | Sign up there and join us for next week's Q&A.
00:54:46.540 | Be back with you soon.
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