back to indexRPF0633-The_Case_for_Moving_to_a_No-Income-Tax_State
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a show dedicated to providing you with the knowledge, 00:00:42.600 |
as a special April celebration, a tax series. 00:00:46.500 |
and today, in part one, I want to give you a case 00:00:56.120 |
to your attention right now during tax season 00:00:59.120 |
so that you can have current data to do your own analysis. 00:01:03.560 |
Now, in the United States, April is, of course, 00:01:06.460 |
the time that we file our federal income tax returns 00:01:14.760 |
but, of course, I've not reviewed every state, 00:01:36.080 |
Tax Freedom Day is the date at which Americans 00:01:38.780 |
collectively have finished paying all of their taxes. 00:01:51.260 |
Now, of course, that tax burden is not equal. 00:01:54.800 |
The rich bear it much more than the poor people do, 00:01:58.280 |
but collectively, Americans spend much more on taxes 00:02:01.440 |
than on food, clothing, and housing combined. 00:02:10.620 |
Payroll taxes take about 26 days to pay from there. 00:02:16.820 |
Then corporate income taxes, another seven days. 00:02:27.340 |
To bring you to about the middle or end of April 00:02:31.540 |
Canadians, of course, celebrate Tax Freedom Day 00:02:37.520 |
Canadians pay about 43.6% of their annual income to taxes. 00:02:42.520 |
So the point is that taxes are a major expense, 00:02:45.520 |
and for many of us, the biggest expense is income tax. 00:02:51.160 |
because income tax has that perverse incentive 00:02:54.160 |
of meaning that if you are productive, you pay more. 00:02:56.900 |
You can avoid many other taxes with your behavior. 00:03:10.040 |
and where you buy it to avoid those property taxes. 00:03:31.020 |
But the more I produce, the more money I pay in tax. 00:03:34.260 |
And I find that very frustrating, personally. 00:03:37.060 |
So, we talk a lot on Radical Personal Finance 00:03:41.300 |
And I wanna strike right to the heart of it, though, 00:03:43.080 |
because although there are dozens and dozens and dozens, 00:03:45.640 |
perhaps hundreds of individual little techniques 00:03:53.120 |
there are a few big techniques that make a big difference. 00:03:56.720 |
The thing that is difficult for many laypeople 00:04:03.540 |
They're wishing for that there were one thing, 00:04:10.580 |
Well, I've been modestly obsessed with this topic for years 00:04:14.720 |
and have educated myself to a very high level. 00:04:17.860 |
And I have never been able to find that one thing. 00:04:23.240 |
But in this series, I'm gonna give you three things 00:04:31.080 |
Unlike all the little deductions, all the little offsets, 00:04:34.280 |
all the little credits and things that you can accumulate, 00:04:37.200 |
these are just three big strokes for you to consider. 00:04:40.300 |
So, let's talk about the case for your moving 00:04:47.700 |
U.S. residents pay income taxes at three levels. 00:04:53.440 |
which are charged to you by the U.S. federal government. 00:04:56.920 |
And those federal income taxes apply to all U.S. persons 00:05:03.220 |
U.S. persons are defined as all U.S. citizens, 00:05:07.220 |
any person who actively has a U.S. citizenship, 00:05:19.200 |
So, the U.S. federal government assesses income taxes, 00:05:32.000 |
The second level of taxation is state-level income taxation, 00:05:36.920 |
which is, if you are the resident of a specific state, 00:05:40.040 |
many states in the United States assess income taxes 00:05:52.560 |
And then some individual localities, some cities, 00:05:56.280 |
charge an additional level of local-level income taxes, 00:06:06.800 |
in the United States is too small for us to bother with. 00:06:09.640 |
And if you are living in one of those cities, 00:06:13.500 |
why you are choosing to bear that tax burden. 00:06:16.320 |
So, I'm not gonna spend any time on your particular problem 00:06:22.620 |
But I do wanna spend some time on state-level income taxes, 00:06:31.060 |
and yet most people don't pay them much attention. 00:06:34.340 |
Let me give you an example of how you should think 00:06:40.460 |
is you should look at your state income tax returns 00:06:45.900 |
and you should figure out how much you are paying 00:07:05.020 |
And so, let's use that as a good plug number here, 00:07:13.260 |
that that is costing you if you simply removed it 00:07:21.140 |
Let's assume that we're giving financial planning advice 00:07:29.340 |
and this 25-year-old expects to pay $5,000 this year 00:07:36.180 |
And for some reason, that state-level income tax burden 00:07:40.300 |
It's going to be a level $5,000 for the next 40 years. 00:07:43.500 |
And the reason, of course, is that it makes for easy math. 00:07:46.060 |
So let's plug this into a financial calculator. 00:07:55.660 |
Well, if we put in a $5,000 annual payment for taxes 00:08:01.720 |
we plug in a 40-year number from age 25 to age 65, 00:08:05.900 |
'cause of course, they're going to set up their career 00:08:07.740 |
in their state, and they're going to have family obligations, 00:08:09.960 |
and they're basically going to stay in that state 00:08:13.660 |
Americans are not moving as much as they once did. 00:08:17.980 |
Then let's start with nothing, 'cause of course, 00:08:21.860 |
so let's put in a zero for our present value. 00:08:23.940 |
And let's assume that if this person were to move 00:08:26.700 |
to a no-income tax state, rather than spend the money, 00:08:36.300 |
and building their wealth, so they would invest this money 00:08:40.840 |
Now, the end of 40 years, how much would that be worth? 00:08:47.800 |
that investment fund would be worth $1,398,905.20. 00:08:52.800 |
So let's call that $1.4 million, among friends. 00:08:58.880 |
$1.4 million is the cost to this particular person's 00:09:03.560 |
retirement account if they choose to live in a state 00:09:11.240 |
This is an important thing to point out to people, 00:09:31.560 |
to a jurisdiction that does not impose state income taxes, 00:09:36.600 |
there is a decent chance that you'll be $1.4 million 00:09:51.080 |
For some people, the number will be much, much bigger. 00:09:58.000 |
to figure out, you need to think about the impact of it. 00:10:01.600 |
If instead of paying that money to your local state, 00:10:05.480 |
you saved and invested that money for your retirement plan, 00:10:14.120 |
Now, I like to extrapolate numbers even more. 00:10:17.920 |
because what I have learned working with wealthy people 00:10:27.120 |
How much would this cost you if you never spent this money 00:10:33.400 |
the same $1.4 million, specifically $1,398,905.20. 00:10:38.400 |
And now I'm gonna change that to be our present value 00:10:45.840 |
And I'm gonna change our time frame from 40 years, 00:10:48.380 |
which took us from age 25 to 65, to 30 years, 00:11:00.480 |
about a 30-year lifespan for your calculations. 00:11:05.320 |
30 years, I'm gonna now make no further contributions 00:11:12.760 |
Perhaps this was your annual Roth IRA payment. 00:11:15.480 |
Now at the end of 30 years, how much would that be worth 00:11:30.200 |
This is the cost to your family, to your heirs, 00:11:40.800 |
that imposes $5,000 of state-level income taxes on you. 00:11:45.800 |
This is the cost, $14 million of foregone wealth. 00:11:51.600 |
What you have done is, instead of accumulating that wealth 00:11:57.320 |
transferring it to worthy people, worthy causes, 00:12:00.840 |
worthy organizations that you support at your death, 00:12:04.000 |
and making an impact on the level of $14 million, 00:12:10.360 |
the value of that money to your state government. 00:12:22.000 |
or you could choose to live in another state. 00:12:24.080 |
You can assess how worthy your state government is 00:12:30.040 |
Are they doing what you think should be done with it? 00:12:35.480 |
should be done with it, however, consider moving. 00:12:40.160 |
If there were a list of causes that I would like to support 00:13:11.980 |
I'm also always looking for voluntary solutions, 00:13:27.640 |
You'll also hear me looking for things that are effective. 00:13:39.160 |
that doesn't have state-level income taxes, is powerful. 00:13:43.700 |
It is far more powerful if you care about your money. 00:13:47.040 |
It is far more powerful for you to figure out 00:13:49.120 |
how to remove $5,000 of unnecessary income taxes 00:13:54.640 |
figuring out how to save $4 a week on a cup of coffee. 00:14:03.520 |
of little savings techniques, little savings tips, 00:14:17.840 |
save on income taxes and save on those other things as well. 00:14:21.120 |
But the point is, start with the big things, just move. 00:14:23.960 |
And if you wanna make an impact to your state, 00:14:28.960 |
the only message that you can send in the modern world 00:14:31.920 |
is simply removing yourself from their tax rolls. 00:14:35.760 |
See, voting is a waste of time, doesn't really do much. 00:14:44.280 |
And by removing your money, you can make a statement. 00:15:00.480 |
And that finally, that is making state-level politicians 00:15:16.200 |
you're not coercing anybody else, it's entirely legal, 00:15:20.620 |
you're just simply making a different choice. 00:15:24.880 |
let me give you a little bit of additional advice. 00:15:37.840 |
there's probably less of a motivation for you to move 00:15:45.640 |
might come with higher cost of living in other areas. 00:15:49.120 |
For example, you need to consider all your taxes. 00:15:55.160 |
but those won't change based upon a state level. 00:15:57.800 |
You need to consider your federal income taxes, 00:15:59.840 |
but those won't change based upon a state level. 00:16:02.440 |
You need to consider your state income taxes, 00:16:03.840 |
but you also wanna consider things like real estate taxes 00:16:19.380 |
but in a place that has lower real estate taxes 00:16:21.300 |
'cause what you actually do is manage a lot of property. 00:16:26.700 |
'cause you need to consider all of those costs. 00:16:29.860 |
But then also look at what's available to you 00:16:31.520 |
and consider what your alternative use of the dollar is, 00:16:41.660 |
For example, let's say that you have been trying 00:16:58.380 |
The most, the best example that I've ever heard of this 00:17:01.860 |
was years ago when I read Tony Robbins' book, 00:17:04.700 |
"Money Master the Game," he spent a couple pages 00:17:07.100 |
laying out how after being a lifelong California resident, 00:17:29.580 |
Beautiful, brand new house, oceanfront estate, 00:17:36.220 |
And he said that he paid off the entire house 00:17:39.740 |
with his income tax savings in a mere six years 00:17:45.860 |
Now, your scale may be bigger than Tony Robbins' scale. 00:17:52.060 |
Your scale may be smaller than Tony Robbins' scale, 00:17:58.460 |
to spend your money on that's probably gonna do you 00:18:00.700 |
more good than sending it to the state government. 00:18:06.620 |
you need to consider your personal considerations, 00:18:12.020 |
I can indeed come up with a number of very relevant arguments 00:18:25.300 |
The obvious ones have to do with your income. 00:18:27.020 |
If you don't make a lot of money, chances are, 00:18:31.140 |
that doesn't have a lot of state income taxes. 00:18:39.240 |
that charges a lot of state-level income taxes, 00:18:48.020 |
There might be also the obvious one of your income. 00:18:53.540 |
that imposes a high level of state income taxes, 00:18:58.420 |
that is simply not available in another place. 00:19:09.060 |
for them to live and work in downtown New York City, 00:19:14.620 |
New York state income taxes, and New York City income taxes, 00:19:29.260 |
and they say, "Well, I have to live here to work," 00:19:37.380 |
In some industries, the answer would be a lot. 00:19:42.980 |
I think there's at least one or probably five others 00:19:47.200 |
that could actually move to another jurisdiction, 00:20:03.620 |
It's something I've watched a lot happen in Florida, 00:20:06.180 |
where there have been major changes in the financial sector, 00:20:10.760 |
why should we spend all our time in New York City, 00:20:14.540 |
an hour and a half, two and a half hour flight, 00:20:17.800 |
away from New York City, when we need to get there, 00:20:28.740 |
where live video conferencing is so much easier to do 00:20:32.380 |
than it once was, it's considered accepted, et cetera, 00:20:42.100 |
and I don't expect that to change anytime soon, 00:20:44.500 |
but there are options for you to at least consider. 00:20:47.340 |
You shouldn't just think about this in terms of money. 00:20:54.580 |
What do you get by living in certain other places? 00:21:02.700 |
How much does your state income tax cost you? 00:21:05.940 |
How much will it cost you if you save that money 00:21:19.860 |
but everybody should calculate what they can gain by moving. 00:21:27.740 |
And then once you've calculated it in the coming years, 00:21:36.020 |
perhaps you're thinking about getting a new job 00:21:38.980 |
maybe you should prioritize looking for a job 00:21:41.940 |
in a state that doesn't have state income taxes. 00:21:45.700 |
Whether you choose to move or not, that's up to you. 00:21:48.540 |
But at the very least, if you're negotiating a new job, 00:22:01.900 |
but tell the employer, you gotta increase my salary 00:22:16.340 |
Well, here are the states that don't require income tax 00:22:30.380 |
Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming. 00:22:35.380 |
Again, the seven states that don't have any income tax 00:22:56.860 |
New Hampshire and Tennessee aren't strictly free 00:23:05.020 |
I think New Hampshire taxes interest and dividend income 00:23:08.600 |
if it's in excess of $2,400 for individual singles 00:23:21.260 |
if that interest income exceeds $1,250 for singles 00:23:29.040 |
Now, these states still have large governments, 00:23:40.140 |
For example, in Wyoming, it's heavily focused 00:23:46.260 |
In Nevada, of course, it's gambling and hotel taxes. 00:23:49.380 |
Texas and Florida have their own interesting, unique things. 00:23:53.540 |
So the states still function, and they require, 00:24:00.100 |
Now, here's what's neat about that list of nine states. 00:24:05.300 |
Texas, Washington, Wyoming, New Hampshire, and Tennessee. 00:24:18.420 |
There's plenty of big cities in those states. 00:24:25.300 |
You'd like to live out in the country in the sticks? 00:24:47.260 |
that is available in another state in the United States 00:24:50.920 |
that's not available in one of those nine states, 00:24:57.440 |
So think it through and be willing to consider it. 00:25:00.900 |
Here's the other cool thing about those states. 00:25:03.620 |
You can find a situation, a living situation, 00:25:06.160 |
in those states that could be fairly convenient 00:25:17.380 |
Texas, Washington, Wyoming, New Hampshire, and Tennessee, 00:25:19.860 |
you can find a state that's pretty geographically close 00:25:42.540 |
Not that far on an airplane from Florida to New York. 00:25:55.620 |
Don't spend enough time there to trigger your tax residence. 00:26:03.500 |
And in many businesses, as long as you have moved, 00:26:06.580 |
you may not even necessarily have to change your business. 00:26:11.440 |
because of the actual way that the laws work. 00:26:16.180 |
I've thought about doing a whole course on this. 00:26:20.140 |
I don't think it's gonna affect enough people, 00:26:23.020 |
that you may even be able to keep your business. 00:26:32.840 |
or if you're moving from California to Nevada, 00:26:36.680 |
and you understand how you can adjust your affairs 00:26:48.200 |
And you wanna make sure that you minimize your footprint 00:26:49.880 |
in any of those states that impose income taxes. 00:26:51.820 |
You never wanna become a tax resident of those states, 00:27:01.320 |
One of the big things that has changed in 2017, 2018 00:27:06.120 |
is the deductibility of state-level income taxes. 00:27:12.360 |
are now appreciating the enhanced cost of that. 00:27:25.200 |
For example, mortgage interest is still deductible 00:27:37.840 |
So if you moved from the California side in Lake Tahoe 00:27:44.480 |
because of the higher value of those properties in Nevada 00:27:48.960 |
that higher price may now be deductible for you 00:27:54.720 |
Or other examples, sometimes the cost of traveling 00:28:00.760 |
So let's say that you move from New York to Florida 00:28:14.760 |
as long as that travel is appropriate business expense 00:28:20.200 |
and you have to travel up to New York City once a quarter 00:28:25.080 |
whereas previously your New York-level income taxes 00:28:36.460 |
And since you probably already have family in New York 00:28:54.980 |
For example, let's say that you are currently 00:29:00.400 |
that you don't wanna pay New York state income taxes anymore 00:29:03.480 |
but you still are gonna have some business connections 00:29:05.480 |
in New York and you look at the laws of New York 00:29:07.720 |
and you recognize that you may have to go up there 00:29:22.040 |
you're still gonna have to go to New York to see clients. 00:29:24.840 |
When I was a financial advisor, I had clients in New York. 00:29:27.280 |
If I needed to go to New York and see clients, 00:29:31.040 |
or business expense, for me to fly from New York, 00:29:37.480 |
from New York City to New Jersey to see that client, 00:29:41.400 |
Now, if you properly schedule your appointments 00:29:45.680 |
using the common rules of business deductions, 00:29:48.720 |
for example, you have business appointments on Friday 00:29:51.160 |
and you have business appointments on Monday, 00:29:59.000 |
with your parents on Long Island doesn't matter. 00:30:03.140 |
Your time in New York is deductible travel days. 00:30:06.200 |
What's more interesting is perhaps instead of renting 00:30:11.260 |
you rather work out a rental arrangement with your parents 00:30:16.880 |
for you to stay in when you're there on business travel. 00:30:20.000 |
So yes, you have to commute in from Long Island, 00:30:27.880 |
check the Airbnb, get some comparable rental expenses, 00:30:33.000 |
and perhaps you find that based upon the comparable rentals 00:30:41.120 |
New York, I don't know what they are, $200 per night. 00:30:44.320 |
And so you wind up coming up to your parents' house 00:30:48.640 |
once per quarter and you rent from your parents 00:31:03.460 |
that transfers $800 into your parents' pocket. 00:31:10.320 |
can rent out their house for up to 14 days per year 00:31:18.960 |
and not have to pay income tax on that money. 00:31:22.120 |
You of course don't get to deduct any rental expenses, 00:31:43.680 |
but you schedule appropriate business meetings 00:31:52.040 |
you make sure that you have appropriate business meetings 00:32:02.180 |
Well, you could do that up to 14 days per year. 00:32:13.420 |
You of course, as an individual with a company, 00:32:27.360 |
You say, well Joshua, a room in my parents' house 00:32:41.960 |
for us to have our annual shareholders meeting, et cetera. 00:32:45.180 |
Well, there's no reason why you only have to rent a room 00:32:49.980 |
and perhaps your parents have a beautiful house, 00:32:57.300 |
you're going to be having shareholders meetings, 00:33:00.760 |
For your purposes, you need a full apartment. 00:33:10.560 |
You can figure out what your comparable rates are, 00:33:11.980 |
so you can figure out what they should be charging. 00:33:13.540 |
Of course, if they're gonna be renting a house 00:33:26.040 |
When you're in town using that house for entertainment, 00:33:34.860 |
which was a place to do business temporarily, 00:33:40.180 |
and you live in Florida and remove your state income tax. 00:33:47.620 |
you might have to travel more back to the state 00:33:52.040 |
But as long as you don't trigger tax residency 00:33:55.620 |
you can still travel there just because you move. 00:34:05.100 |
where I can't deduct all my state income taxes now, 00:34:09.220 |
there are plenty of options available to you, plenty. 00:34:13.020 |
By the way, just because you move your residency 00:34:18.300 |
doesn't mean that you can't keep your own house 00:34:21.380 |
in that place and keep it as a rental apartment. 00:34:28.480 |
Now, it may or may not be a wise idea for you. 00:34:32.760 |
that if you do that and you have rental property 00:34:41.980 |
So consider keeping the house that you currently live in, 00:34:47.460 |
move to a state that doesn't have state income taxes. 00:34:51.540 |
And if you need to travel back and forth to visit family, 00:34:57.140 |
so that you can come back and check on your rental property. 00:35:00.020 |
There's no reason why you can't spend the week 00:35:01.540 |
before Christmas working on your rental property 00:35:06.940 |
Just figure out how to arrange your affairs in such a way 00:35:12.860 |
paying unnecessary levels of state income taxes. 00:35:30.420 |
and there are some things that you can look at 00:35:36.040 |
You don't have to have a huge house in Florida. 00:35:52.100 |
But recognize that you are choosing to live in a state 00:36:00.260 |
a productive person who is generating lots of income 00:36:04.260 |
and doesn't want additional drag on their income, 00:36:07.960 |
you should seriously consider moving to a state 00:36:12.300 |
that doesn't impose state-level income taxes, 00:36:18.220 |
in millions of dollars available for you in retirement 00:36:27.780 |
That's the case for your moving to a no-income tax state. 00:36:42.180 |
I recently very quietly released on my website, 00:36:45.480 |
I very quietly re-released my career and income guide. 00:36:56.840 |
And really had, I've got a bunch of testimonials 00:36:59.440 |
from my students of new jobs that they've got, 00:37:03.680 |
But it's my contention that one of the most important areas 00:37:06.680 |
of financial planning for you to begin with is income. 00:37:13.880 |
you are working in work that is well-suited to you 00:37:26.840 |
Just think about how easy it is to become wealthy 00:37:38.840 |
you're gonna become wealthier earning $400,000 a year 00:38:21.120 |
But the question is, if you're gonna do that, 00:38:23.840 |
you would actually need to understand how to do it. 00:38:32.620 |
Nowhere in 11th grade did they sit down and say, 00:38:41.980 |
"We're gonna teach you how to go from $15 an hour 00:38:47.880 |
Don't you think that that would be a pretty decent course 00:38:59.000 |
Fortunately or unfortunately, it's not taught in college. 00:39:16.780 |
and thinking about how you can build a career 00:39:25.580 |
and a career that has massive income potential, 00:39:36.120 |
It's called The Radical Personal Finance Guide 00:39:54.500 |
that is perfectly suited to your life and your lifestyle, 00:40:24.060 |
So just because you make a million dollars a year 00:40:25.820 |
doesn't mean you have to spend a million, too. 00:40:32.760 |
Now, if you hate your job and you make a high income, 00:40:36.220 |
hey, consider going to a job that you enjoy more. 00:40:38.580 |
But there's no reason to choose between those things. 00:40:51.660 |
that in time, you can find and develop a career 00:41:04.980 |
that is five to 10 times higher than it is today, 00:41:12.480 |
that is five to 10 times higher today than it is today. 00:41:21.660 |
So now, instead of stopping your income at 65, 00:41:36.900 |
In fact, I don't think it's possible for everybody. 00:41:58.280 |
click on the store button and you'll see that course 00:42:07.320 |
and the one that I think is the most important. 00:42:13.860 |
Check it out, radicalpersonalfinance.com/store. 00:42:20.860 |
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