back to indexRPF0485-Questions_on_Taxation
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Today is Thursday, September 28, 2017, and here in the United States of America, President 00:00:35.640 |
Trump and the Republican Party released, or started the process of releasing some of the 00:00:40.720 |
information about their goals for tax reform. 00:00:44.520 |
Yesterday, they released the document called "A Unified Framework for Fixing Our Broken 00:00:50.640 |
The idea is, the headline and the slogan is "Tax Reform. 00:00:56.640 |
And as I deal with personal finance here on Radical Personal Finance, I feel like I owe 00:00:59.160 |
it to you to do a bit of analysis on some of these proposals. 00:01:05.840 |
I've done a lot of shows on detailed, careful tax planning, and I feel like I owe it to 00:01:10.280 |
you to give you some commentary and some analysis. 00:01:19.120 |
One, it is far too early to have any clarity on specific proposals. 00:01:25.160 |
This, of course, doesn't stop the commentariat from quickly talking about how it's either 00:01:31.240 |
a great plan or a terrible plan, but it's far too early to have any specific proposals. 00:01:37.840 |
At this point in the legislative process, things will go into committee, there needs 00:01:42.840 |
And so it's just not – there's not enough information where I could properly comment 00:01:51.820 |
For two reasons, just simply the subject and the way that this subject is handled utterly 00:01:57.560 |
This morning I worked through and I said, "OK, well, let me go and start reading some 00:02:00.960 |
of the analysis, some of the news from people that I appreciate and people that are popular 00:02:09.160 |
And I find the whole thing utterly depressing. 00:02:13.600 |
Now, I promise I'm not going to depress you in this show. 00:02:18.400 |
But I just sat here and shook my head and I said, "How can I create anything positive 00:02:23.280 |
I don't want to depress you and I'm so tired of the political nonsense that – I'm 00:02:35.320 |
But then I think we're probably all in the same place. 00:02:37.860 |
It just feels like nobody wants to tell the truth. 00:02:39.880 |
Nobody wants to have a debate about substance. 00:02:47.520 |
So here's what I thought I would do and what I'm going to do. 00:02:50.080 |
I'm going to ask you some questions and give you an opportunity to think through your 00:02:55.320 |
I've come up with a list of questions that are philosophical questions that I think will 00:02:59.840 |
be useful to you to just consider your own personal philosophy. 00:03:04.080 |
Your answers to these questions will largely determine your approach to specific proposals, 00:03:10.480 |
whatever those specific proposals are that come out in the coming days. 00:03:14.680 |
I don't claim that this list is complete but I think these are just some useful philosophical 00:03:21.000 |
questions that you should ask yourself and you should ask yourself the reasons behind 00:03:30.440 |
Do you believe that a civil government has the right to tax an individual's income? 00:03:43.000 |
Do you believe that a civil government has the right, has the moral right to tax an individual's 00:03:57.320 |
What's the fundamental basis of your personal belief? 00:04:06.280 |
There are many other kinds of taxes that we could talk about. 00:04:09.840 |
But since we're debating income tax, what's the fundamental truth that would give a government 00:04:16.400 |
the right to tax somebody's income, your income, or to not give them the right? 00:04:22.280 |
Now I encourage you when thinking about questions like this to apply various diverse examples 00:04:30.880 |
So for example, with income, we're all so used and accustomed to the way that income 00:04:35.400 |
taxes are handled here in the United States now. 00:04:37.280 |
Our tax returns and our quarterly checks if you're in business or the automatic deduction 00:04:47.300 |
After all, your income is what you use to pay for the basic truths of your life. 00:04:51.960 |
So let's pretend that you are living in an agrarian society and you grow a crop of sweet 00:04:57.760 |
You sell that sweet corn at the local farmer's market to your neighbors. 00:05:01.840 |
Well, you go out and with the work of your brow, you plant those plants and you have 00:05:11.900 |
So then you've gathered in a thousand bushels of corn and now along comes the government 00:05:18.000 |
agent and says, "You owe us 200 bushels of corn out of your barn and we're going to take 00:05:25.260 |
What gives that government agent the right to make that demand upon your corn? 00:05:30.320 |
Or let's say that you've taken your corn and sold it to the neighbors and you've collected 00:05:34.000 |
a hundred pieces of silver, silver coins from your commerce. 00:05:38.760 |
And then the government agent comes down, knocks on your door and says, "You have earned 00:05:49.280 |
What gives the civil government the moral right to tax you in that way? 00:06:03.420 |
Do you believe that the US civil government has the constitutional right to tax an individual's 00:06:16.200 |
There's an interesting investigation there for you which you might want to look into. 00:06:25.960 |
More likely look it up on the internet and start reading and find out what the constitutional 00:06:30.040 |
right is that the US government stands on in order to collect taxes and research some 00:06:41.880 |
If you believe that a civil government does have the right, the moral right to tax an 00:06:45.840 |
individual's income, how much of a person's income can they claim? 00:06:53.400 |
What's the right number of how much a person's income the government can claim and how would 00:07:00.440 |
How would you know what that right number is? 00:07:02.200 |
For example, if they had a thousand bushels of corn that you gathered in from your crop 00:07:07.320 |
in front of your house or if you had the silver pieces that you – silver coins that you 00:07:11.800 |
earned from a simpler era, the silver coins that you earned from building tables and chairs 00:07:16.880 |
and selling them to your neighbors, how many of those bushels of corn does the civil government 00:07:25.080 |
Or how many of those pieces of silver coin does the government have the right to? 00:07:30.800 |
What is the right number and how would you know if that were the right number? 00:07:36.180 |
How would you know if 20 pieces out of your hundred pieces of silver is the right number 00:07:48.760 |
Do you believe that everyone should be required to pay income taxes? 00:07:59.760 |
Again, do you believe that everyone should be required to pay income taxes? 00:08:09.920 |
Now I'll come out of philosophical question mode for a moment just to add a little bit 00:08:16.280 |
If you believe that everyone should be required to pay income taxes, do you believe that that 00:08:22.000 |
requirement should be expressed in the reality that some money comes out of everyone's pockets? 00:08:28.360 |
This is one of the biggest challenges that we face right now in the US American context. 00:08:32.880 |
When we come to the question of tax policy and appropriate tax policy, about half the 00:08:37.860 |
country doesn't pay any income taxes effectively. 00:08:41.800 |
And there's a very different way of approaching taxes. 00:08:46.720 |
Let me describe to you two different scenarios. 00:08:49.680 |
Many high-income earners, many business owners, every quarter write a substantial check out 00:08:57.400 |
of their checking account to the US Treasury Department. 00:09:00.800 |
There are many business owners who, when they prepare their returns at the end of the tax 00:09:05.880 |
year, write a substantial check to make up for what they didn't pay in their substantial 00:09:10.680 |
quarterly checks to the US Treasury Department. 00:09:14.880 |
On the flip side, there is a substantial percentage of the population that looks forward to the 00:09:20.520 |
filing of their tax returns because it means that they get money into their checking account 00:09:33.680 |
They look forward to filing their income taxes because they get a nice check from the Treasury 00:09:42.360 |
If you ask people this question, it's one of my favorite questions, "How much did you 00:09:49.920 |
You'll get very different answers to that question depending on the part of society 00:09:57.440 |
Some people say, "I wrote a check for $30,000." 00:10:00.640 |
Some people say, "Oh, I got a check back for $5,000." 00:10:05.400 |
So do you believe that everyone should be required to pay, actually pay, income taxes? 00:10:13.440 |
Next question, do you believe that some people should be treated differently than other people 00:10:19.880 |
and so be ordered to pay a different rate of income tax than others? 00:10:30.480 |
Do you believe that some people should be eligible for special treatment and be treated 00:10:34.480 |
differently than other people and so be required to pay a different rate of income tax than 00:10:48.080 |
If you believe that some people should be treated differently and be ordered to pay 00:10:51.560 |
a different rate of income tax than others, how would we determine who should be treated 00:10:57.000 |
differently and how much of a difference there should be? 00:11:03.600 |
Who should be taxed at a higher rate and how much of a difference in rate should there 00:11:16.080 |
Next question, do you believe that government tax policy should be used to incentivize certain 00:11:22.360 |
behaviors or to disincentivize other behaviors? 00:11:30.520 |
Do you believe that government tax policy should be used to incentivize certain behaviors 00:11:42.800 |
If so, how would we know what behaviors should be incentivized or which ones shouldn't? 00:11:52.440 |
How would we know which ones we should encourage? 00:11:54.600 |
Let me give you an example, the US tax code has certain provisions in it that relate to 00:12:05.440 |
Depending on how we look at this, we could view these as a penalty, for example, the 00:12:11.200 |
frequently referred to marriage penalty or we could refer to this as an incentive. 00:12:17.680 |
For example, if you have children, you're eligible for a child tax credit. 00:12:21.760 |
So the idea is this may be an incentive for people to have children. 00:12:25.520 |
Well, how do we determine if that's what the government should be encouraging or shouldn't 00:12:31.920 |
I've spent quite a bit of time in my life reading various feminist authors and various 00:12:40.320 |
One oft-repeated theme is that among feminist authors and some LGBT activists that I've 00:12:46.560 |
read is that marriage is an institution of oppression. 00:12:51.880 |
Thus, if we encourage marriage, we're encouraging and expanding the immoral, patriarchal society 00:13:06.400 |
Or another expression of this would be children. 00:13:08.560 |
Some people believe that children are a positive force for good. 00:13:11.080 |
Some people believe that children lead to oppression. 00:13:14.080 |
For example, one of the fundamental legal reasonings behind why the United States of 00:13:20.720 |
America has laws legalizing the abortion of children is that without a right to abortion, 00:13:28.920 |
a woman is inferior to a man because she has to carry a baby. 00:13:33.160 |
So therefore, if a man doesn't have to carry a baby, then a woman shouldn't have to carry 00:13:41.600 |
So should government tax policy be used to incentivize marriage children or to disincentivize 00:13:48.920 |
How would we know which behavior should be incentivized and which one shouldn't? 00:13:53.460 |
One interesting change as of late is that there is a dramatic – there's a dramatic 00:13:58.800 |
change happening in some countries regarding tax policy in children. 00:14:02.040 |
I shared an article on my Twitter feed last week about – I can't remember which Scandinavian 00:14:05.800 |
country it was but they – this particular country is dying off simply because the birth 00:14:12.680 |
rate for that particular country is well below the replacement rate. 00:14:18.720 |
And so the government has done practically everything they can with tax policy to pay 00:14:22.320 |
parents to have children, to have substantial parental benefits and to pay for all the expenses 00:14:29.960 |
And yet still, the population is not seemingly reacting to this governmental tax policy 00:14:36.640 |
and the population of this country, that particular country is headed for continual decline. 00:14:43.160 |
This is a major problem because the vast majority of our governments are built upon the principle 00:14:53.360 |
Most of the governmental programs depend on higher future tax revenues that are needed 00:14:59.240 |
in order to pay off the promises to past generations. 00:15:05.640 |
Without new children, new taxpayers coming in, then this whole scheme falls apart. 00:15:14.000 |
So should government tax policy be used to incentivize certain behaviors and disincentivize 00:15:19.200 |
And if it should, how would we know which behavior should be incentivized and which 00:15:27.040 |
A common one would be deductions for real estate interest, mortgage interest in the 00:15:34.040 |
Should a government be encouraging home ownership? 00:15:40.720 |
Next question, do you believe that tax policy should be used to give some people special 00:15:45.200 |
benefits because of certain behaviors or because of a certain status? 00:15:54.320 |
Do you believe that tax policy should be used to give some people special benefits because 00:16:07.360 |
For example, do you believe that the local city government in your town or the state 00:16:13.880 |
government should give a company special tax concessions in order for them to choose to 00:16:22.040 |
Say we're not going to charge you taxes or we're going to charge you a lower rate of 00:16:25.000 |
taxation because you're bringing your business to our town. 00:16:29.920 |
Whether it's an NFL stadium or a local biotech engineering facility or a local entertainment 00:16:37.480 |
complex, is it right that certain businesses and certain business owners are given special 00:16:47.360 |
concessions for them to take certain actions? 00:16:52.760 |
Or what about special tax benefits for people in a certain condition? 00:16:55.400 |
For example, there are certain tax benefits, increased deductions, etc. for blind people 00:17:05.920 |
Should tax policy be used to give some people who meet certain descriptions special benefits? 00:17:25.880 |
Here's my last question, many more that you could ask. 00:17:28.560 |
Do you believe that government and tax revenues for said government, do you believe it's a 00:17:38.440 |
Is it a good thing to be doing with money, to give money to a government? 00:17:46.720 |
Or do you see government as an unproductive user of tax money? 00:17:52.660 |
If government is a productive user of tax money, then shouldn't we be trying to get 00:17:56.880 |
as much money into the government control as possible? 00:18:05.120 |
And if so, should we be trying to get as little money into the hands of the government as 00:18:09.960 |
I hope these are thought-provoking questions. 00:18:16.080 |
I just wrote them down, many more questions perhaps that you could ask. 00:18:19.320 |
But I hope you'll consider the answers for these questions. 00:18:23.120 |
And I hope you'll consider the support that you have for those answers. 00:18:30.300 |
The answers to your questions will largely determine where you come out on a particular 00:18:38.140 |
Now let me just close today's show with a few thoughts and a few comments, a little 00:18:41.640 |
bit of commentary on the forthcoming political debate in our country for the coming months. 00:18:56.280 |
If or when I can get more clarity on what's actually proposed, what actually passes, et 00:19:02.200 |
But at the end of the day, Gary North convinced me that taxes don't really change all that 00:19:08.360 |
Taxes just basically seem stuck at about 20 percent of GDP in the United States of America. 00:19:12.440 |
Yeah, there are little changes here and there and whatnot, but it's all noise. 00:19:16.880 |
And more and more, it seems to me that it's just meaningless noise. 00:19:23.360 |
Republicans and the Democrats basically do the same thing. 00:19:25.440 |
They basically want the same thing and all of the so-called differences between them 00:19:31.600 |
For example, the Republicans – evidently from the information that we have right now 00:19:36.700 |
about the forthcoming Republican framework for tax reform is that instead of having seven 00:19:46.340 |
different tax brackets, things would be simplified into three tax brackets of 12 percent, 25 00:19:55.000 |
This is not a fundamentally different philosophy from the current system that we live under. 00:20:03.540 |
For example, nobody is recommending or advocating for any kind of non-progressive tax rate, 00:20:11.040 |
Everyone believes evidently – both Republicans and Democrats believe that people who earn 00:20:15.440 |
a higher income should pay a higher rate of taxes. 00:20:20.360 |
So both Republicans and Democrats when asked the question, "Do you believe that some 00:20:24.560 |
people should be treated differently than others and so be ordered to pay a different 00:20:29.040 |
Both Republicans and Democrats would answer, "Yes." 00:20:32.720 |
Now why they would answer yes, I don't know why. 00:20:36.520 |
I would say it probably just comes down to political expediency. 00:20:39.120 |
At least for the Republicans, it's probably political expediency. 00:20:43.200 |
They know they can't get a flat tax through politically speaking or they don't think 00:20:49.920 |
And so they're having basically a tiny debate about whether there should be seven different 00:20:58.360 |
So don't buy into the hype that any of this stuff is going to really matter. 00:21:01.360 |
There's no major difference between – at least so far. 00:21:07.640 |
But there's nothing dramatically different about what I have read so far versus the way 00:21:14.000 |
This is all political posturing and the goal is to get – to use tax policy to gain more 00:21:20.600 |
So Bastiat called it the politics of plunder. 00:21:24.400 |
The politics of plunder are alive and well in the United States of America. 00:21:28.680 |
The question is who's going to be plundered and how can we build that for political gain? 00:21:34.640 |
Another example of sameness between – in this political debate, I don't hear anybody 00:21:38.000 |
talking about the need for a balanced budget. 00:21:40.960 |
Both Republicans and Democrats seem to believe that it's perfectly fine and perfectly right 00:21:44.720 |
to dole out lots of benefits without actually paying for them and to use debt to finance 00:21:50.780 |
Now there may be a slight difference in talking about it. 00:21:54.080 |
But in terms of doing it, nobody seems to want to cut spending. 00:21:58.540 |
Nobody seems to actually want to rein in government. 00:22:01.560 |
So everyone has got the best possible solution. 00:22:04.520 |
We can play around with taxes, which the debate over taxes will please our various constituencies 00:22:09.440 |
and please our certain people to buy more votes from here or buy more votes from there. 00:22:17.000 |
But in the meantime, we can just hand out as many government benefits as possible to 00:22:20.400 |
other parts of our constituencies and then we will buy some more votes from there and 00:22:26.440 |
Maybe someday 100 years in the future, the economy will have grown enough that the debt 00:22:34.960 |
I believe that this practice that we've all and practically every large, least large 00:22:39.920 |
Western government in the world has latched onto. 00:22:46.560 |
You can't continue to say we're going to run up the credit card bills and pass it 00:22:55.120 |
It bugs me to no end when people want to go out and talk about cutting taxes and not cutting 00:23:01.800 |
Frankly, if I had my druthers, I would be happy for people to have a debate about actual 00:23:12.760 |
Let's actually make the budget balance and say you've got to spend the money. 00:23:16.600 |
So if you're going to pass a new government program, you've got to actually pay for 00:23:20.640 |
And you find out if your tax constituents actually want to write the checks for it. 00:23:23.520 |
And if they do, if you've decided that it's all about the votes and the people want 00:23:26.680 |
to vote for it and they want to vote themselves new government programs, that's fine. 00:23:30.020 |
But make sure you actually pay for them, not just sell them and give away money for free 00:23:38.960 |
Anyway, finally, remember that taxes, most taxes are largely optional. 00:23:50.460 |
When things are decided, then find the rules, read the rules and then change your life however 00:23:55.880 |
you need to change it in order to minimize your tax burden. 00:24:01.100 |
Some taxes you can get out of, but you can change your behavior and change from a lot 00:24:08.280 |
The people who really get screwed with taxes are those who don't read the rules. 00:24:16.240 |
And then finally, be encouraged with the increase in global competition. 00:24:23.160 |
One of my favorite things actually about the framework that was released and it's probably 00:24:29.120 |
a political no-go because everyone's going to play their games. 00:24:32.280 |
But one of my favorite things personally is the removal of the deduction for state and 00:24:41.560 |
That of course penalizes high-tax states, for example, California, New York, Massachusetts, 00:24:47.440 |
etc., where residents of those states get major deductions for all their state taxes 00:24:54.760 |
If that word actually passed, that would be – that would be great because then it forces 00:24:59.920 |
reality more and more onto the states and it brings in more and more competition. 00:25:05.960 |
For the last few years, I see that there's a substantial migration happening across the 00:25:11.920 |
People are moving out of high-tax jurisdictions and moving into lower-tax jurisdictions. 00:25:15.880 |
I've promoted here on the show the website Savetaxesbymoving.com. 00:25:19.360 |
If you go into Savetaxesbymoving and you type in your city and your state where you live 00:25:23.960 |
and what your filing status is and how old you are and what your annual earnings are 00:25:27.680 |
and where you'd like to move to, it will calculate for you the change in your taxes. 00:25:36.160 |
It gives people the value of being able to show it. 00:25:39.400 |
If I'm 30 years old and I have three dependents, married, filing jointly, three dependents, 00:25:47.040 |
and I'm earning $150,000 per year and I move from Boston, Massachusetts to Dallas, 00:25:54.000 |
I would have an annual savings of $6,720 per year. 00:25:59.760 |
Well, $6,720 per year amortized – or compounded out over the course of an investing lifetime 00:26:07.360 |
at a reasonable rate of interest could very easily be in excess of a million dollars extra 00:26:16.720 |
So sometimes if the cost of taxes, unless there's an offsetting income benefit, the 00:26:21.920 |
cost of taxes of living in Boston, Massachusetts versus somewhere else is substantial. 00:26:31.440 |
And that's happening nationally with the competition among the states and that's 00:26:37.320 |
I have to keep a close eye on myself on other international jurisdictions. 00:26:42.760 |
If I get to the point where my income comes to the point where it's worth it, I very 00:26:48.520 |
seriously would consider changing where I lived just to avoid the taxation. 00:26:59.160 |
Not a lot of people that really are doing this stuff but you can. 00:27:04.320 |
So this global competition is forcing more and more – is forcing reality onto some 00:27:09.360 |
of the politicians and that's a positive trend. 00:27:14.400 |
So I guess that's what I wanted to share with you. 00:27:16.200 |
I hope that these questions are thought-provoking for you. 00:27:18.280 |
I hope they cause you to assess your personal philosophy, your ideology and think through 00:27:28.600 |
Use it as a chance to consider your own beliefs. 00:27:31.800 |
Even in some of these questions when I was writing them out, I thought, "You know, 00:27:35.680 |
I know what I think I believe but I can't really defend the why very well. 00:27:40.760 |
I hope that they're thought-provoking for you and you take them and do the homework 00:27:48.000 |
This show is part of the Radical Life Media network of podcasts and resources. 00:28:02.600 |
This is the sound of a beach in the Caribbean. 00:28:18.880 |
Experience small ship cruising that's 180 degrees from ordinary.