RPF0396-Joe_Fairless_Interview
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00:00:38.000 | Talk to your health care provider before vaccination if your baby was born prematurely.
00:00:41.000 | Side effects may include irritability, pain, redness, swelling at the injection site,
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00:00:48.000 | For full prescribing information, please call 1-855-213-2138 or visit Prevnar20.com.
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00:01:00.000 | Welcome to Radical Personal Finance, the show dedicated to providing you with the knowledge,
00:01:06.000 | skills, insight, and encouragement you need to live a rich and meaningful life now
00:01:11.000 | while building a plan for financial freedom in 10 years or less.
00:01:14.000 | My guest today is Joe Fairless. Joe, do you think you can fulfill that tagline
00:01:19.000 | and give some ideas and tips and tactics and tools from your own experience
00:01:22.000 | to help my audience along that road?
00:01:25.000 | It's a tall task, but yeah, let's get rocking.
00:01:29.000 | Well, your website presents you as being a master of these, so we'll do the best we can.
00:01:34.000 | What's your story?
00:01:37.000 | Well, what's my story? I am from Texas.
00:01:42.000 | I majored in advertising at Texas Tech University.
00:01:46.000 | Graduated in 2005, moved up to New York City.
00:01:49.000 | Right afterwards, worked on Madison Avenue at advertising agencies.
00:01:54.000 | And I went from being a junior project manager
00:01:59.000 | all the way to the youngest VP of a New York City advertising agency.
00:02:04.000 | When I was a junior project manager, my check every two weeks was about $750.
00:02:09.000 | My rent was $775, so as you can imagine, I was financially strapped living in New York City.
00:02:16.000 | As I grew, financially and within the companies, the advertising agencies,
00:02:24.000 | I maintained my same level of expenses.
00:02:28.000 | My rent at most was $1,100, and my paycheck went from $30,000 to $150,000.
00:02:39.000 | So what I did by keeping my expenses fixed for the most part,
00:02:46.000 | is I was investing on the side.
00:02:49.000 | And my friends would make fun of me.
00:02:51.000 | They'd be like, "Dude, you're living like a college kid.
00:02:54.000 | You're eight, nine years removed from college,
00:02:57.000 | and you got a dorm-style refrigerator,
00:02:59.000 | and you don't even have a living room in your apartment, and you have a roommate."
00:03:03.000 | And I said, "Yep, that's true."
00:03:06.000 | But I was also an investor on the side.
00:03:09.000 | I was investing in single-family homes while living in New York City.
00:03:12.000 | I was investing in Dallas-Fort Worth.
00:03:15.000 | I ended up having four single-family homes that I bought.
00:03:20.000 | People were wondering, "How the heck are you doing that?"
00:03:22.000 | And I said, "Well, let me tell you."
00:03:26.000 | And I told them how I would invest in single-family homes.
00:03:32.000 | I'll get into that in more detail if you'd like.
00:03:37.000 | And after I invested in some single-family homes,
00:03:40.000 | I realized that I wasn't digging advertising anymore.
00:03:42.000 | It wasn't fulfilled.
00:03:44.000 | I learned how to buy apartments and raise money,
00:03:47.000 | or buy apartments with investors and share in the profits.
00:03:50.000 | And that was in July of 2013 when I bought my first place.
00:03:55.000 | I left the advertising world, and now I haven't looked back.
00:03:59.000 | And I now control $54 million with the real estate,
00:04:02.000 | primarily multifamily communities.
00:04:05.000 | Who taught you to take this approach to your investment life?
00:04:10.000 | A bunch of books, a bunch of authors that don't know me,
00:04:14.000 | and a bunch of seminars, as well as some consultants.
00:04:19.000 | So, specifically, some books that I read.
00:04:22.000 | The first one was "Investing for Dummies."
00:04:25.000 | It talks about the three different ways of investing,
00:04:27.000 | stocks, bonds, LLCs, and real estate.
00:04:31.000 | I gravitated towards real estate.
00:04:33.000 | Then I went to more seminars.
00:04:35.000 | I went to a Rich Dad Poor Dad seminar.
00:04:37.000 | I went to a couple other local seminars in New York City,
00:04:40.000 | where I was living at the time.
00:04:41.000 | I now live in Cincinnati.
00:04:43.000 | I went to a couple of those seminars.
00:04:45.000 | And my sister is a real estate agent in Dallas-Fort Worth.
00:04:51.000 | My dad used to be a real estate agent.
00:04:54.000 | So, I've grown up around real estate.
00:04:56.000 | It just made more sense to me than stocks and bonds
00:04:59.000 | and investing in LLCs.
00:05:02.000 | And then I've brought on some consultants.
00:05:05.000 | Since then, I have a life coach right now
00:05:07.000 | through the Tony Robbins program.
00:05:09.000 | And I have a podcast that's the world's longest daily
00:05:14.000 | real estate podcast.
00:05:16.000 | And as a result of that, I meet a bunch of people,
00:05:18.000 | some of them who are in my space.
00:05:22.000 | And I stay in touch with them.
00:05:25.000 | And if I come up with some challenging questions
00:05:28.000 | or some issues, I reach out to them and they help me out.
00:05:32.000 | Did your parents encourage you to read about finance?
00:05:36.000 | No.
00:05:38.000 | No, they did not.
00:05:41.000 | It wasn't ever really a discussion.
00:05:46.000 | I always had a job.
00:05:47.000 | I had a job whenever I was 15.
00:05:51.000 | I think before I was legally able to have a job,
00:05:53.000 | I was pouring concrete and asphalt at Lockheed
00:05:58.000 | in Fort Worth, working for a contractor.
00:06:02.000 | My buddy's dad, who was a contractor for Lockheed.
00:06:05.000 | And I worked at Discount Tire in high school.
00:06:07.000 | I worked at Office Max.
00:06:09.000 | I had my own lawn mowing business.
00:06:13.000 | Always had a job.
00:06:15.000 | A party warehouse was another job all in high school.
00:06:20.000 | But the actual financing part wasn't.
00:06:23.000 | What I realized is whenever I was making $30,000,
00:06:27.000 | when I moved to New York City,
00:06:30.000 | and my rent was more than half of one of my pay--
00:06:33.000 | more than one of my paychecks,
00:06:35.000 | I realized that I needed to figure out how to budget.
00:06:38.000 | And as I was climbing the corporate ladder,
00:06:40.000 | I was making money.
00:06:42.000 | And I just naturally wanted to just kind of command
00:06:47.000 | my own future.
00:06:50.000 | And I just kind of realized that was the thing I needed to do.
00:06:54.000 | How old are you now, Joe?
00:06:56.000 | 34.
00:06:57.000 | And do you consider yourself to be financially independent,
00:07:01.000 | meaning you're working because you want to,
00:07:03.000 | not because you have to?
00:07:05.000 | Yeah.
00:07:06.000 | Yeah, I have four or five different streams of income.
00:07:14.000 | And I'd say two or three of them alone
00:07:20.000 | would qualify me for working because I want to
00:07:25.000 | and not because I have to.
00:07:27.000 | And if you were going to guess,
00:07:29.000 | do you remember at what age you kind of woke up,
00:07:31.000 | looked at your financial statements,
00:07:33.000 | and realized that, "Hey, I've done this.
00:07:35.000 | I'm financially independent"?
00:07:37.000 | It would be within the last 12 months.
00:07:39.000 | Great.
00:07:41.000 | We're talking about kind of a time frame of about 13 years,
00:07:45.000 | something like that, from the time you went through college
00:07:47.000 | and moved up to New York City.
00:07:49.000 | It took you a little over a decade, something like that,
00:07:51.000 | to achieve financial independence?
00:07:53.000 | Yep.
00:07:54.000 | That's awesome.
00:07:55.000 | Congratulations.
00:07:56.000 | Yeah, thank you.
00:07:57.000 | I just point that out because one of the things
00:07:59.000 | that I've spent a lot of time on Radical Personal Finance
00:08:01.000 | talking about is that there are ways to short-circuit
00:08:05.000 | the process of becoming financially independent.
00:08:08.000 | You don't have to wait until you're 65.
00:08:10.000 | And those ways are simple.
00:08:13.000 | They're not easy, but they're simple.
00:08:15.000 | And they involve increasing your income.
00:08:18.000 | In your story, I hear dramatic increases in your income,
00:08:21.000 | going from $30,000 to $150,000 on Madison Avenue.
00:08:25.000 | How many years did that take you?
00:08:27.000 | It took me about seven.
00:08:29.000 | Okay.
00:08:30.000 | So there's a significant increase there,
00:08:31.000 | a lot of hard work.
00:08:32.000 | I'm sure there were a lot of hours,
00:08:33.000 | a lot of building expertise,
00:08:35.000 | living on less than you make, in your case substantially less,
00:08:38.000 | and then investing the difference wisely.
00:08:40.000 | And if you do that in a reasonably short period of time,
00:08:45.000 | a decade or two, you can build financial independence.
00:08:49.000 | Yeah, that's what happened.
00:08:52.000 | It's exciting, right?
00:08:54.000 | Yeah, I guess at this point,
00:08:56.000 | it doesn't really register with me, quite frankly.
00:09:01.000 | It's more about what can I continue to do
00:09:05.000 | to optimize what I'm doing,
00:09:08.000 | and then what's the exciting project that's coming up next,
00:09:12.000 | and how can I win that project, and how can I add value.
00:09:17.000 | So it's funny, I never really thought about it.
00:09:21.000 | I've more thought about how can I grow
00:09:24.000 | the different businesses that I have,
00:09:28.000 | and how can I optimize them and scale them.
00:09:31.000 | Why is it important to you to grow your businesses and scale them?
00:09:35.000 | Because if we don't grow, we die.
00:09:37.000 | So if I'm not growing, then I'm stagnant,
00:09:40.000 | and there's complacency,
00:09:42.000 | and any time you're stagnant, just look at stagnant water.
00:09:45.000 | It just becomes filthy and disgusting.
00:09:48.000 | So I have to constantly grow,
00:09:50.000 | and as human beings, we have to constantly grow.
00:09:53.000 | So I think there's also a component about it
00:09:58.000 | that's just a whole lot of fun.
00:10:00.000 | It's fun to track my podcast downloads
00:10:05.000 | from the point when I started the podcast,
00:10:09.000 | when I was bringing, you know,
00:10:12.000 | I had like 800 downloads,
00:10:16.000 | to now where I'm over 130,000 downloads a month.
00:10:21.000 | It's fun to track that stuff,
00:10:24.000 | and see how I can bring on team members,
00:10:27.000 | and then scale something, and then get the notoriety.
00:10:31.000 | I mean, it's just pretty cool,
00:10:33.000 | as well as it's fun to play at a higher level in business,
00:10:37.000 | on the different businesses I have.
00:10:41.000 | So I have my podcast, which is a business.
00:10:44.000 | I have a consulting program, which is a business.
00:10:48.000 | I buy apartment communities with investors
00:10:51.000 | and share in the profits.
00:10:53.000 | That's my main money maker.
00:10:56.000 | And I have a couple miscellaneous things,
00:11:00.000 | like online classes and stuff.
00:11:03.000 | But those are the main revenue streams,
00:11:05.000 | and those are the main businesses,
00:11:07.000 | launching a conference.
00:11:09.000 | So I just enjoy it.
00:11:11.000 | It's just a lot of fun for me.
00:11:13.000 | Do you ever get tired?
00:11:15.000 | Yeah, yeah, I get tired.
00:11:17.000 | I don't get tired of what I just described,
00:11:20.000 | but I get sleepy.
00:11:22.000 | What I mean is, do you ever just look at all these things
00:11:25.000 | and say, "Maybe I should simplify.
00:11:26.000 | Maybe I should pull back.
00:11:27.000 | Maybe I should rest on my laurels
00:11:29.000 | and enjoy what I've built a little bit more"?
00:11:31.000 | Well, everything in that question
00:11:35.000 | is the implication that I'm not enjoying it.
00:11:39.000 | And it's actually the opposite.
00:11:42.000 | I thrive off of it.
00:11:44.000 | I love it.
00:11:45.000 | And the businesses that I just described,
00:11:52.000 | the common denominator is real estate.
00:11:55.000 | So it's not that I've got a consulting gig
00:11:59.000 | where I'm teaching people how to make pancakes.
00:12:03.000 | The consulting thing is how to buy apartments
00:12:07.000 | with investors and share in the profits.
00:12:09.000 | The podcast is The Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever.
00:12:12.000 | My book is The Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever, Volume 1.
00:12:15.000 | There's going to be a new volume released every six months.
00:12:19.000 | The conference is The Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever conference.
00:12:22.000 | And so they all ladder up to real estate investing.
00:12:27.000 | And I think when we have that focus of what we enjoy,
00:12:33.000 | then the variety comes into play
00:12:36.000 | when we spin off of that focus
00:12:39.000 | and see how we can expand with little areas of it.
00:12:45.000 | And those little areas are what I described.
00:12:48.000 | You mentioned that you began your career on Madison Avenue
00:12:51.000 | in an entry-level position and you grew it to a six-figure income.
00:12:55.000 | I don't know how impressive $150,000 is in Madison Avenue terms
00:13:00.000 | in New York City prices and wages,
00:13:02.000 | but it's certainly a dramatic difference from $30,000.
00:13:05.000 | What did you do to grow your income?
00:13:08.000 | A couple things.
00:13:12.000 | Let's see.
00:13:13.000 | When I first started, I was making $30,000.
00:13:15.000 | I was working at an advertising agency, a very prestigious one.
00:13:18.000 | I realized that I didn't want to do what my boss was doing.
00:13:21.000 | I also realized that the next step up was just--
00:13:25.000 | it wasn't going to be financially rewarding.
00:13:29.000 | So I left after nine months.
00:13:31.000 | I left that agency, very prestigious,
00:13:33.000 | and went to an agency where I was the seventh employee.
00:13:37.000 | The agency was called Mr. Youth.
00:13:40.000 | Now they're called MROY.
00:13:43.000 | My first salary there was $38,000.
00:13:51.000 | From $38,000 when I started,
00:13:55.000 | and then I got probably five, six, seven promotions,
00:14:01.000 | somewhere around there.
00:14:02.000 | When I left, I was making $120,000
00:14:06.000 | about five and a half, six years after that.
00:14:10.000 | Our agency also grew from me being the seventh employee
00:14:14.000 | to over 100 employees during that time.
00:14:18.000 | We went from being the company that was on the ground
00:14:23.000 | passing out flyers at a spring break event
00:14:25.000 | to meeting--I was meeting with the chief marketing officer
00:14:30.000 | at Microsoft within being an MSN
00:14:33.000 | because we're the social media agency of record.
00:14:36.000 | So we as an agency, as a company, matured,
00:14:40.000 | and through that process, we grew our company
00:14:45.000 | and I elevated within it much faster
00:14:48.000 | than what would be typical at a more established agency.
00:14:53.000 | I then used that experience and got a vice president position
00:14:57.000 | at another more established agency,
00:15:00.000 | and I said--and I looked at the job description.
00:15:03.000 | I was someone who had to be in the business for 10 plus years,
00:15:06.000 | and I'd been in it for six or seven.
00:15:09.000 | But I told them that their agency reminded me
00:15:12.000 | of how we grew and how we expanded our offerings,
00:15:18.000 | and I can bring that to their company.
00:15:22.000 | Regardless of how much experience I have,
00:15:24.000 | it's the type of experience that I had.
00:15:26.000 | It's not a number of years.
00:15:27.000 | It's actually the quality of experience,
00:15:30.000 | and I sold them on that.
00:15:32.000 | I was able to get a job with them for $150,
00:15:37.000 | and I don't think that included the bonus either.
00:15:39.000 | I think there's probably going to be a bonus,
00:15:41.000 | but I didn't stay there for 12 months.
00:15:43.000 | I actually left after about nine months again
00:15:47.000 | because I realized that that wasn't what I wanted to do,
00:15:51.000 | and that's whenever I got into my entrepreneurial ventures.
00:15:55.000 | In the real estate field.
00:15:57.000 | Yeah, well, actually, I should also mention,
00:16:00.000 | right after I left advertising,
00:16:02.000 | my focus was going to be to help college students
00:16:07.000 | and young professionals learn how to get to the level
00:16:12.000 | I was at as fast as I got there.
00:16:15.000 | So basically, consult them to rise through the ranks.
00:16:18.000 | But I launched a website, paid a designer $3,000,
00:16:22.000 | and I didn't get any clients.
00:16:26.000 | I mean, it was like crickets.
00:16:27.000 | And so I quickly pivoted, and I was like,
00:16:30.000 | "Okay, this just isn't working."
00:16:32.000 | And at the time, I had been teaching a class on the side also
00:16:35.000 | on how to buy those homes that I was buying,
00:16:39.000 | and one of a couple people who I knew pretty well,
00:16:42.000 | they're like, "You know what?
00:16:44.000 | "If you ever do something larger, let me know."
00:16:46.000 | I heard that two or three times.
00:16:48.000 | And when you have clients, before you have a product,
00:16:50.000 | you know you've got a good business.
00:16:52.000 | Whereas on the consulting thing with advertising,
00:16:56.000 | where I wanted to consult college students
00:16:58.000 | and young professionals, I had a product,
00:17:00.000 | but I didn't have clients.
00:17:02.000 | And it didn't work out.
00:17:05.000 | But once I heard from potential clients
00:17:08.000 | that they wanted a product, I was like,
00:17:10.000 | "You know what? Maybe I'll look into this."
00:17:12.000 | And so I spent six months from January to July of 2013
00:17:16.000 | looking for a place, got it under contract,
00:17:18.000 | and ended up making it happen.
00:17:21.000 | The reason I'm focusing on your career,
00:17:24.000 | rather your business, your career in New York
00:17:26.000 | versus real estate, is that your career,
00:17:29.000 | from what you're telling me, served as the foundation
00:17:31.000 | for the money to get started in real estate.
00:17:36.000 | That progression, what were you teaching in your class,
00:17:39.000 | or what did you intend to teach to college students
00:17:42.000 | and young professionals to help them rise
00:17:45.000 | through the ranks as quickly as you did?
00:17:47.000 | Was there some kind of daily practice?
00:17:49.000 | Did you have some kind of psychological juju
00:17:52.000 | that you were working on?
00:17:54.000 | What did you actually do?
00:17:55.000 | What were you teaching them tactically?
00:17:58.000 | Well, and we can focus on whatever you want, it's your show,
00:18:01.000 | so I'll just roll with it. I'm fine with it.
00:18:04.000 | I want to make it clear.
00:18:09.000 | So I was teaching a class on how to buy houses
00:18:16.000 | in other states while living in New York City.
00:18:19.000 | I was teaching that class while I had my full-time job
00:18:22.000 | in advertising.
00:18:24.000 | I wanted, after I left my full-time job,
00:18:27.000 | I wanted to have clients to teach them
00:18:30.000 | how to climb the corporate ladder in PR and advertising.
00:18:35.000 | I did not get any clients with that business venture,
00:18:39.000 | and I folded it within a month.
00:18:41.000 | So I did not teach anybody anything about that,
00:18:46.000 | with one exception.
00:18:48.000 | I was also interviewing people for a book
00:18:52.000 | that I was writing called
00:18:54.000 | "Join the Remarkable 75 Tips to Have a Remarkable Career."
00:18:58.000 | And I interviewed a bunch of people
00:19:00.000 | who have had remarkable careers
00:19:02.000 | in all the different professions,
00:19:04.000 | and I also, on the side, was teaching a class on that.
00:19:08.000 | So I was basically doing a bunch of stuff
00:19:13.000 | while I had my full-time job.
00:19:15.000 | I also did improv.
00:19:16.000 | I did stand-up comedy at Gotham Comedy Club in New York City.
00:19:20.000 | I was doing as much as I could
00:19:22.000 | except for my full-time job in advertising
00:19:25.000 | because I wasn't fulfilled towards the very end of it.
00:19:29.000 | Got it.
00:19:31.000 | Tell me about your first two real estate deals.
00:19:35.000 | My first two?
00:19:37.000 | Those would be my first two single-family homes.
00:19:39.000 | The one I bought in 2009 and the other, 2010.
00:19:46.000 | My first one I put 20% down, typical loan.
00:19:51.000 | I bought it for $76,000.
00:19:54.000 | 20% would be--
00:19:56.000 | I think all in, I was at $20,000
00:19:59.000 | when you factor in the closing costs.
00:20:01.000 | It rented for, at the time, $1,100.
00:20:07.000 | It's in Duncanville, Texas, four-bedroom, two-bath house.
00:20:10.000 | I still have it today.
00:20:14.000 | It was in 2009, so it was a time
00:20:16.000 | when things were pretty tough to get loans.
00:20:20.000 | Additionally, it was my first loan,
00:20:22.000 | so I had to write a letter to the lender
00:20:25.000 | telling them why I--
00:20:27.000 | and I rented in New York City.
00:20:28.000 | I'd tell them why I was renting in New York City
00:20:31.000 | but buying in another state,
00:20:34.000 | who I would have as property management.
00:20:37.000 | There was a couple things I had to overcome on that one.
00:20:45.000 | The second one was a three-bedroom, two-bath house
00:20:50.000 | in Fort Worth, Texas.
00:20:52.000 | The purchase price was $81,000.
00:20:56.000 | I got it through a loan program called HomePath,
00:20:59.000 | which no longer exists.
00:21:01.000 | But HomePath was pretty cool
00:21:03.000 | because it allowed me to only put 10% down.
00:21:06.000 | So I put $8,100 down on that property
00:21:10.000 | plus closing costs, all in about $12,000.
00:21:14.000 | And it rented for, at the time--
00:21:18.000 | rents have gone up on both of them since then--
00:21:20.000 | but it rented for, at the time, $1,150, I believe.
00:21:26.000 | And it was built in 2006.
00:21:28.000 | That was the kicker.
00:21:29.000 | It was pretty darn new.
00:21:31.000 | No, 2006--somewhere around there.
00:21:34.000 | Early 2000s, somewhere around there.
00:21:36.000 | So it was very, very nice.
00:21:39.000 | Low to no maintenance.
00:21:42.000 | And both have been rented with the exception of maybe
00:21:47.000 | in total 12 months between both of them since then.
00:21:52.000 | But with single-family homes, what I've realized--
00:21:56.000 | it's easy to talk about the potential profits on them,
00:22:00.000 | but not a lot of people talk about,
00:22:02.000 | "Well, when someone moves out,
00:22:04.000 | "you're going to be paying a good chunk of your money
00:22:07.000 | "towards fixing it up and getting someone else to move in."
00:22:11.000 | For example, I just had a move-out on that second house,
00:22:15.000 | and all in, it cost me $5,000 to get it to be move-in ready again.
00:22:21.000 | Paint, carpet, trash out, fix the toilet,
00:22:25.000 | put a couple screws in the wall, whatever you need to do.
00:22:29.000 | And when I'm making $250 on a month,
00:22:35.000 | and you pay $5,000 on that,
00:22:40.000 | well, that's what, 250 times 12, that's $3,000.
00:22:46.000 | So it's going to take you almost two years
00:22:48.000 | to recover the loss of when one person moves out.
00:22:52.000 | Not a lot of people tell you that.
00:22:54.000 | That's been one of the eye-opening experiences
00:22:58.000 | that I've learned with single-family homes.
00:23:02.000 | And the way to solve that is a couple.
00:23:06.000 | One, once the mortgage is gone,
00:23:08.000 | you're going to be doing really well.
00:23:11.000 | So one of my homes I have on a 15-year mortgage.
00:23:14.000 | The other two are on 30 years just for cash flow reasons,
00:23:17.000 | because I don't think I'd cash flow with a 15-year on the other two.
00:23:22.000 | And then the other is,
00:23:24.000 | I realized I wasn't going to do single-family homes anymore
00:23:27.000 | after these, because the amount of time it took me to find one,
00:23:31.000 | to run the numbers, to get financing approval,
00:23:34.000 | to coordinate the insurance, get the taxes every year,
00:23:39.000 | it was just annoying for $250 a month,
00:23:43.000 | and then to have that erased with a $5,000 move-out fee.
00:23:47.000 | So now I focus on large apartment buildings.
00:23:50.000 | So my intention of bringing up those two deals
00:23:52.000 | is just simply to describe them with no offense intended.
00:23:56.000 | They sound like just pretty ordinary deals.
00:23:58.000 | They sound like you just simply went and bought a house,
00:24:01.000 | and probably you got a decent deal on it,
00:24:04.000 | but you went and bought a house.
00:24:05.000 | But the fact that you had a steady job,
00:24:07.000 | the ability to get bank financing,
00:24:09.000 | and the fact that you had a down payment,
00:24:11.000 | which was saved from your income,
00:24:12.000 | allowed you to get started and to go ahead and get some properties,
00:24:15.000 | which you were buying at a good time in the market,
00:24:17.000 | where they were able to cash flow the mortgage.
00:24:20.000 | And they just sound like pretty ordinary deals.
00:24:23.000 | Is that accurate?
00:24:24.000 | Yeah, totally ordinary.
00:24:26.000 | The only thing that's not ordinary about them
00:24:30.000 | is I bought them at the right time in the right market.
00:24:34.000 | I was just going to say,
00:24:35.000 | right time in terms of 2008, 2009,
00:24:38.000 | and also in Texas with Texas real estate prices
00:24:41.000 | being substantially depressed at that time especially.
00:24:45.000 | So you transitioned then to multifamily
00:24:48.000 | because of recognizing the shortfall of these individual houses
00:24:53.000 | that you were owning?
00:24:55.000 | Yeah, a couple of reasons.
00:24:57.000 | One, I realized that I had to buy a whole bunch of them
00:25:01.000 | to get a substantial amount of money coming in every month.
00:25:06.000 | And it was tough to get one, let alone a bunch of them.
00:25:12.000 | Two, when I left advertising,
00:25:15.000 | the irony is that I couldn't get approved for a single family home
00:25:21.000 | because I didn't have a W-2 income,
00:25:23.000 | but I could bring in a group of investors
00:25:26.000 | and we could buy a multi-million dollar apartment community
00:25:30.000 | because they're evaluated differently.
00:25:33.000 | They're evaluated based on the income the property generates,
00:25:37.000 | the net worth and liquidity of the buying group,
00:25:42.000 | and the experience of the buying group.
00:25:46.000 | So all I had to do was be resourceful
00:25:49.000 | and put the pieces in place to do bigger deals.
00:25:54.000 | And you can and you do, if you're doing it right,
00:25:57.000 | make more money on the bigger deals than the $250 of pop deals.
00:26:01.000 | Tell me about your first multifamily deal.
00:26:05.000 | It's 168 units in Cincinnati, Ohio.
00:26:10.000 | We actually got it through a creative financing method
00:26:15.000 | called a master lease with option to purchase.
00:26:18.000 | The reason why we did that is because there was a,
00:26:23.000 | about a nine hundred, almost a million dollar deficit
00:26:28.000 | or prepayment penalty on the property
00:26:31.000 | if the loan was paid off early.
00:26:34.000 | So we had one of two options.
00:26:36.000 | We could do an assumption and assume the loan with a 1% fee,
00:26:42.000 | but the loan was 6.19%
00:26:45.000 | and to pay that assumption fee to just to assume a loan that's 6.19%
00:26:50.000 | because they got the loan in, I think, like 2009-ish.
00:26:55.000 | So their rates were pretty high.
00:26:57.000 | It just didn't make sense.
00:26:58.000 | The other was to do something creative called a master lease
00:27:01.000 | with option to purchase.
00:27:03.000 | Other states, it could be known as a land contract.
00:27:07.000 | We were able to take control of the property
00:27:11.000 | and then we were responsible for all the expenses,
00:27:15.000 | including the mortgage payment, insurance, and taxes,
00:27:18.000 | but we also get to keep all the income.
00:27:21.000 | The kicker that made it most appealing to us
00:27:25.000 | was that while we had the master lease,
00:27:28.000 | we would get credit on the principal pay down of the mortgage.
00:27:34.000 | So every month that we make the mortgage payment,
00:27:37.000 | we decrease the principal balance by roughly $15,000.
00:27:43.000 | So the longer you hold on to it, the more equity that you build
00:27:48.000 | as a result of just paying down the mortgage,
00:27:51.000 | and we agreed to the price of $6.35 million
00:27:57.000 | for the purchase that we'd eventually buy it at
00:28:02.000 | in three and a half years at the time--or four years, actually.
00:28:06.000 | So we were agreeing--basically, from taking a step back,
00:28:10.000 | we were agreeing to purchase the property
00:28:13.000 | for today's value in four years from that day,
00:28:18.000 | and over those four years,
00:28:20.000 | we'd get credit for the principal pay down on the mortgage,
00:28:23.000 | which would help us build equity,
00:28:25.000 | even if we didn't increase the value of the property.
00:28:29.000 | And what was your contribution to the deal?
00:28:35.000 | Putting it together.
00:28:37.000 | For the first deal, I didn't put any of my own money in it
00:28:40.000 | because I didn't have any of my own money to put in the deal.
00:28:44.000 | I raised over--I raised about $1.1 million.
00:28:50.000 | $843,000 came from a total of 12 investors that I brought in,
00:28:57.000 | and then the difference of $1.1 and $843 came from
00:29:01.000 | the brokers who were representing the buyer.
00:29:05.000 | They put in their commission into the deal
00:29:08.000 | as a form of down payment
00:29:10.000 | so that we could get to the down payment mark,
00:29:14.000 | and they became 25% owners with us in the deal.
00:29:19.000 | And then there were some prorated deposits and taxes
00:29:21.000 | that we got credit for, and all in it was around $1.3.
00:29:25.000 | So this sounds like a neat deal,
00:29:30.000 | and it demonstrates that using what you--
00:29:35.000 | using the resources that you had--
00:29:37.000 | you didn't have the money, but you had the time, the skill,
00:29:40.000 | the network--use those resources to put together the deal that--
00:29:44.000 | has it paid off financially for you at this point?
00:29:48.000 | Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:29:50.000 | I mean, at closing, I got a check for $22,000
00:29:55.000 | to put the deal together.
00:29:57.000 | It's what's called an acquisition fee.
00:29:59.000 | And just to take a step back to get into some numbers,
00:30:05.000 | because I know you like numbers,
00:30:07.000 | and your audience likes numbers,
00:30:09.000 | how I make money on multi-family--
00:30:12.000 | what is called multi-family syndication--
00:30:14.000 | how I make money is three ways.
00:30:17.000 | One is an acquisition fee,
00:30:19.000 | which is usually 2% of the purchase price.
00:30:23.000 | In this case, it was not.
00:30:25.000 | It's less than 1%, probably less than one-half of a percent,
00:30:28.000 | but that was my first deal.
00:30:30.000 | Now, for every other deal, it's 2% of the purchase price.
00:30:33.000 | The second way is 2% of the income
00:30:37.000 | that's collected every month.
00:30:39.000 | That's an asset management fee--
00:30:41.000 | the fee to oversee the numbers,
00:30:43.000 | oversee the property management company,
00:30:45.000 | oversee the business plan.
00:30:47.000 | And then there's equity ownership that you have in the deal,
00:30:50.000 | and that's the big one,
00:30:52.000 | where you get equity ownership in the deal
00:30:56.000 | because you put the deal together.
00:30:59.000 | And that can be anywhere from an 80--
00:31:02.000 | you can get 20% for putting in 5% of the deal,
00:31:05.000 | so basically you're getting 15% putting the deal together.
00:31:08.000 | It can be any number of combinations.
00:31:10.000 | You're only limited by your investors
00:31:13.000 | and your creativity for how you put it together
00:31:16.000 | that meets your investors' goals.
00:31:18.000 | But going back to the first deal,
00:31:21.000 | yeah, I got a check at closing for $22,000.
00:31:24.000 | Now, I also learned a bunch of lessons on that deal--
00:31:27.000 | a bunch of hard lessons.
00:31:29.000 | And I have not, nor will I ever, repeat those mistakes again.
00:31:34.000 | [laughter]
00:31:36.000 | A couple lessons--
00:31:39.000 | one is--this is so stupid,
00:31:41.000 | but if I did it, maybe someone else will do it--
00:31:45.000 | or no, they won't do it after they listen to your podcast,
00:31:47.000 | but maybe someone else might have done it.
00:31:49.000 | And that is, I raised enough money for the down payment,
00:31:52.000 | but I was so stupid that I didn't raise money
00:31:57.000 | for operating budget or capital improvements.
00:32:00.000 | And capital improvements are basically parking lot,
00:32:03.000 | you know, fix a pool,
00:32:06.000 | just do certain things around the property,
00:32:10.000 | fix AC units that need to be done.
00:32:13.000 | That was a mistake.
00:32:15.000 | And what I've had to do since we've closed
00:32:19.000 | is put in my own money to cover that.
00:32:23.000 | And we're actually about to close on the property
00:32:26.000 | in two or three days from now.
00:32:30.000 | And the investors will make a pretty darn good return on it.
00:32:35.000 | And I've had investors invest in other deals
00:32:38.000 | who are in that deal.
00:32:40.000 | But that was one lesson I've personally learned.
00:32:43.000 | Another lesson that I learned the hard way
00:32:46.000 | is I learned the difference between economic and physical occupancy.
00:32:50.000 | At the time, I would ask, "What's your occupancy?"
00:32:55.000 | And they said, "98%."
00:32:58.000 | And you know what, we could make it 100% if you wanted.
00:33:01.000 | I mean, we're just rocking it.
00:33:03.000 | I'm like, "That's amazing. That sounds great."
00:33:05.000 | But the question I should have asked is,
00:33:08.000 | "What's your economic occupancy?"
00:33:10.000 | And the difference between occupancy and economic occupancy
00:33:14.000 | is that occupancy is people who are on the rent roll,
00:33:18.000 | people who are living there.
00:33:20.000 | Economic is people who are living there and paying you rent.
00:33:24.000 | (laughs)
00:33:26.000 | So, it turns out that the property had a physical occupancy of 98%,
00:33:33.000 | but an economic occupancy of 80%.
00:33:37.000 | Big old difference.
00:33:39.000 | Just stupid rookie mistakes that I made.
00:33:42.000 | I will never make them again.
00:33:44.000 | Not those mistakes. I'm sure I'll make different ones.
00:33:47.000 | I'll never make those mistakes again.
00:33:50.000 | And now I've also evolved my business
00:33:54.000 | to recognize and to compensate
00:33:59.000 | for what my strengths and weaknesses are
00:34:02.000 | as a person, as an entrepreneur.
00:34:05.000 | I brought on a business partner,
00:34:07.000 | and he has a background in underwriting,
00:34:11.000 | multifamily analysis.
00:34:14.000 | The time when I was working in advertising agencies,
00:34:18.000 | he was working at large multifamily companies
00:34:22.000 | that were doing what we do for a living.
00:34:25.000 | And he has the traditional background,
00:34:28.000 | and he's good at running the numbers,
00:34:31.000 | doing the asset management,
00:34:33.000 | and getting the debt financing,
00:34:35.000 | so the lender financing.
00:34:37.000 | What I'm really good at is getting the equity,
00:34:40.000 | so the down payment from investors,
00:34:42.000 | as well as marketing and investor communication.
00:34:46.000 | And so that's what we do.
00:34:48.000 | That's how we structure our business.
00:34:50.000 | He's focused on his stuff, and I'm focused on my stuff.
00:34:54.000 | And that has taken us to another level,
00:34:57.000 | because we're able to put our heads down.
00:35:00.000 | He doesn't like raising money.
00:35:02.000 | I enjoy it.
00:35:03.000 | I like building the friendships.
00:35:05.000 | And we've gone from, you know,
00:35:08.000 | I bought my first place 168 unit in July 2013.
00:35:12.000 | I waited two long years to buy the second one,
00:35:16.000 | but I bought the second one with my business partner, Frank,
00:35:19.000 | and it was a 250 unit in Houston.
00:35:22.000 | Then we bought a 155 unit in Houston.
00:35:25.000 | Then we bought a 320 unit in Carrollton, Texas,
00:35:28.000 | really nice area in Dallas, north of Dallas.
00:35:31.000 | We are closing on a 296 unit in a month,
00:35:36.000 | and we just put another 217 unit under contract in Dallas.
00:35:41.000 | So the business within the last 14 months
00:35:45.000 | has just gone bananas.
00:35:47.000 | That's why you asked financially free.
00:35:50.000 | Well, it's happened in the last 12 to 14 months,
00:35:52.000 | because of the key of me identifying
00:35:57.000 | what I'm not so good at and what I'm really good at
00:36:02.000 | and focusing what I'm really good at.
00:36:05.000 | How did the relationship with your business partner develop?
00:36:08.000 | Through my consulting program, I have a client,
00:36:12.000 | and I encouraged him to start a meetup in Los Angeles,
00:36:16.000 | because that's where he lives.
00:36:18.000 | He started a meetup, and he met Frank,
00:36:22.000 | and then he introduced me to Frank,
00:36:24.000 | because they needed to close on this 250 unit in Houston.
00:36:27.000 | They saw the good deal, but they didn't have the money.
00:36:30.000 | They didn't have the investor network,
00:36:32.000 | and I said, "I do have the investor network.
00:36:35.000 | I will partner," and that's how we got the first deal done.
00:36:38.000 | What did you do to develop the investor network,
00:36:42.000 | which you now have?
00:36:44.000 | I spent time on earth.
00:36:47.000 | That's really what it boils down to.
00:36:51.000 | I try to help people out,
00:37:00.000 | and I just live a good life.
00:37:03.000 | Let's go back to the 12 people who invested in my original deal,
00:37:08.000 | because that will give you some specifics.
00:37:11.000 | Let's see.
00:37:14.000 | I'm on the alumni advisory board at Texas Tech.
00:37:16.000 | I had two investors from that,
00:37:21.000 | and I joined the alumni advisory board at Texas Tech
00:37:24.000 | years and years before I was in real estate.
00:37:28.000 | I just joined it so I could help out young professionals,
00:37:32.000 | and I went to Lubbock, Texas every year for the conference.
00:37:39.000 | Let's see.
00:37:42.000 | I had three of them invest in my deal.
00:37:46.000 | I have a friend who only knows me from my flag football team
00:37:52.000 | that I had in New York City where I was a captain,
00:37:55.000 | and he invested $25,000.
00:37:58.000 | A roommate from college,
00:38:01.000 | and actually two roommates from college,
00:38:04.000 | and then a roommate that I was living with in New York City invested.
00:38:08.000 | It was a bunch of different networks,
00:38:11.000 | and one recommendation if any listener is looking for how to raise money
00:38:17.000 | or how to think about it for maybe it's their business
00:38:22.000 | that they want to raise funding for or whatever,
00:38:25.000 | doesn't have to be real estate related,
00:38:27.000 | I recommend that you put in the spreadsheet the first name,
00:38:35.000 | last name, those would be columns, and then network.
00:38:38.000 | That's another column,
00:38:40.000 | and then write down how you know that person.
00:38:43.000 | The goal is once you list out 50 people,
00:38:46.000 | the goal is to take a look at the different networks that you're a part of
00:38:49.000 | and get one person from each of those networks,
00:38:52.000 | ideally an influential person,
00:38:54.000 | but at least one person from each of those networks to show interest.
00:38:58.000 | Then you can name check that person with other people within the network.
00:39:02.000 | I found that firsthand that worked on my first deal
00:39:08.000 | because one of my investors, he's like,
00:39:11.000 | "Oh, well if Brandon's investing, I know he's really smart with his money,
00:39:15.000 | so sure, I'll take a look at it."
00:39:17.000 | That person who said, "I'll take a look at it,"
00:39:19.000 | ended up being my biggest investor in my first deal.
00:39:22.000 | What do you mean by name check?
00:39:25.000 | Brandon says, "Okay, I'm interested," and you take that to Brian,
00:39:30.000 | and Brian says, "Okay, if Brandon's interested, then I'm interested?"
00:39:33.000 | Yeah, as long as you get approval from the initial person.
00:39:36.000 | You're trying to find somebody with some credentials,
00:39:38.000 | somebody with maybe some experience who's looked at the numbers and says,
00:39:41.000 | "Okay, I can see this working, Joe. If you get enough other partners, I'm in."
00:39:44.000 | Exactly.
00:39:45.000 | Right.
00:39:47.000 | Joe, if I wipe you out, you just went through bankruptcy,
00:39:51.000 | and I wipe out your investor network,
00:39:55.000 | wipe out all your relationships for whatever reason,
00:39:58.000 | and you got to start fresh.
00:39:59.000 | You're 34 years old, you got a thousand bucks in your bank,
00:40:02.000 | and you're going to try to start again and rebuild.
00:40:06.000 | What would you do today, 2016,
00:40:09.000 | to get started rebuilding what you've built so far?
00:40:13.000 | I'd start a daily podcast.
00:40:16.000 | Really simple.
00:40:18.000 | I'd interview successful people in real estate.
00:40:22.000 | Since my first one was wiped off the face of the earth,
00:40:26.000 | I guess it would be Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever, Part 2.
00:40:29.000 | (laughter)
00:40:31.000 | Dot, dot, dot.
00:40:33.000 | Hope this one stays.
00:40:35.000 | I'd do the same thing I'm doing.
00:40:37.000 | I would do a daily interview with a real estate professional.
00:40:41.000 | I would build credentials.
00:40:45.000 | The beauty of it, as you know,
00:40:48.000 | when you interview people on a podcast,
00:40:50.000 | they share it out with their network,
00:40:52.000 | you're getting exposed to a brand new group of people
00:40:55.000 | who are learning about you,
00:40:58.000 | as well as learning the person's story, who you're interviewing.
00:41:02.000 | Once I have that daily podcast seasoned,
00:41:07.000 | so about six months or so,
00:41:09.000 | then I'd start looking at sponsors.
00:41:12.000 | That would allow me to delegate out the editing
00:41:17.000 | and finding the guests,
00:41:21.000 | because I'd be able to pay people to do that for me.
00:41:25.000 | That would free me up to just do the interviews,
00:41:28.000 | and then I'd be able to focus on other revenue streams.
00:41:32.000 | That would always be the foundation for my business.
00:41:36.000 | What else would you do?
00:41:40.000 | As far as going out and looking at property,
00:41:42.000 | you don't have any money,
00:41:44.000 | but you want to actually build a real estate business.
00:41:46.000 | Would you try to go and bird dog single family houses?
00:41:48.000 | No.
00:41:50.000 | I would start a meetup.
00:41:56.000 | I'm in Cincinnati.
00:41:58.000 | By the way, the first thing I did when I moved to Cincinnati last year
00:42:01.000 | was I started a monthly meetup,
00:42:03.000 | and we've met every month for the last 12 or so months.
00:42:07.000 | I would start a meetup here in Cincinnati.
00:42:10.000 | I would identify a commercial real estate investor
00:42:17.000 | who is already making things happen,
00:42:20.000 | and then I would volunteer my time for him or her.
00:42:24.000 | I would learn from him or her.
00:42:27.000 | I would do whatever they needed me to do,
00:42:32.000 | and then I would eventually do what they are doing,
00:42:36.000 | either with them or outside of them
00:42:40.000 | after I've been able to stand on my own two feet
00:42:43.000 | and got the connections and learned the process.
00:42:46.000 | And specifically what that is, don't know.
00:42:50.000 | Depends on the person,
00:42:52.000 | because whatever is working for them would work for me.
00:42:54.000 | I just have to follow the process.
00:42:56.000 | I mean, you can make money in any type of real estate.
00:43:00.000 | You can make money in any type of business, right?
00:43:02.000 | It's because people have, and so it's possible.
00:43:07.000 | And the path of least resistance, if I were to start over,
00:43:11.000 | would be to simply find someone locally who I have rapport with,
00:43:15.000 | who I can help out through just grunt work,
00:43:18.000 | and then get in good with them,
00:43:21.000 | spend six months, a year, two years, whatever it takes
00:43:25.000 | to add value to their life,
00:43:27.000 | and then just build up my business
00:43:31.000 | as a result of latching on to their success
00:43:34.000 | and going from there.
00:43:39.000 | Why did you choose Cincinnati to live in?
00:43:42.000 | Two reasons.
00:43:45.000 | I'll list them in order of importance.
00:43:48.000 | My girlfriend and future fiance lives here and is from here.
00:43:52.000 | That's number one.
00:43:54.000 | I met her whenever I was visiting my property in Cincinnati.
00:43:58.000 | I was living in New York,
00:44:00.000 | but I was visiting my property in Cincinnati.
00:44:02.000 | I met her here, and that's number one.
00:44:04.000 | Number two is there's a lot of good real estate opportunities.
00:44:07.000 | But I suspect that if Colleen, my girlfriend,
00:44:11.000 | who I love with my life, did not live here,
00:44:15.000 | if I did not meet her,
00:44:17.000 | then I don't think I would be living here.
00:44:19.000 | But I'm glad I'm here, for the record.
00:44:23.000 | Indeed.
00:44:26.000 | What is the best investment that you have made thus far in your life?
00:44:30.000 | Oh, I'd say,
00:44:33.000 | I would say the Internet,
00:44:39.000 | because that allowed me to watch YouTube videos.
00:44:42.000 | And through the YouTube videos,
00:44:44.000 | I discovered Tony Robbins' TED Talk.
00:44:47.000 | And from Tony Robbins' TED Talk,
00:44:50.000 | I went to his website,
00:44:53.000 | signed up for a free coaching session,
00:44:55.000 | then got a business coach when I first started as an entrepreneur.
00:45:01.000 | He told me about Entrepreneur on Fire,
00:45:04.000 | which I'm sure you know, John Lee Dumas,
00:45:07.000 | a very successful podcaster.
00:45:10.000 | Podcasting wasn't on my radar,
00:45:13.000 | but my business coach, who I met through Tony Robbins' program,
00:45:16.000 | he's like, "You should look into doing something like that."
00:45:19.000 | I did look into it, then I did it.
00:45:22.000 | And the podcast has been a game changer for me,
00:45:27.000 | for my business.
00:45:31.000 | And without that, without the Internet,
00:45:34.000 | without paying Time Warner,
00:45:37.000 | even though I'm not a fan of Time Warner,
00:45:40.000 | without paying Time Warner, none of that would have been possible.
00:45:43.000 | How important has your 401(k) and your mutual funds
00:45:46.000 | been to your overall wealth and business success?
00:45:50.000 | Well, by cashing them out whenever I didn't have any money,
00:45:54.000 | they helped me survive and get my first deal done.
00:45:57.000 | So, they were important.
00:46:00.000 | I don't recommend that, but that's what I did,
00:46:03.000 | because I was running out of money
00:46:06.000 | and basically ran out of money and I needed to survive.
00:46:11.000 | Cobra insurance was incredibly expensive.
00:46:15.000 | I don't have that anymore, but it was like $800 a month.
00:46:18.000 | I mean, something ridiculous, plus my rent,
00:46:21.000 | and I didn't have money coming in besides $250 from each house that I had.
00:46:26.000 | So, they helped me, but I don't have them now.
00:46:31.000 | So, there you go.
00:46:34.000 | It's a trick question,
00:46:37.000 | because that story is probably the dominant one that I hear
00:46:40.000 | in terms of business people.
00:46:43.000 | It seems rare for me to meet a business person
00:46:46.000 | who didn't do that or get very close to using their 401(k)s
00:46:49.000 | to invest in their actual business
00:46:52.000 | instead of just leaving them aside for the future.
00:46:55.000 | Oh, that's funny. I didn't know that.
00:46:58.000 | I thought I was the only one.
00:47:01.000 | It was a trick question. I didn't prep you for it.
00:47:04.000 | If you're going to give any final advice,
00:47:07.000 | something I haven't talked about,
00:47:10.000 | to encourage somebody else who is looking at things
00:47:13.000 | and saying, "I'd really love to build something more,"
00:47:16.000 | any tips or advice that you'd love to share with somebody
00:47:19.000 | or you'd love to have had shared with you
00:47:22.000 | when you were back at the beginning stages of your wealth building journey?
00:47:25.000 | If you want to build something more,
00:47:28.000 | then don't think about it and just do it.
00:47:31.000 | Just build it.
00:47:34.000 | Take consistent daily action. That's the main thing.
00:47:37.000 | No one in the world, in the entire world,
00:47:40.000 | has done a daily real estate podcast
00:47:43.000 | as long as I have.
00:47:46.000 | And by simply being just doggedly focused
00:47:49.000 | on putting out an episode every day,
00:47:52.000 | there has become a tipping point.
00:47:55.000 | A tipping point has happened with my business.
00:47:58.000 | And that's the foundation.
00:48:01.000 | So if you want to create something, then great.
00:48:04.000 | Just spend time every single day
00:48:07.000 | doing something towards creating it.
00:48:10.000 | That's it.
00:48:13.000 | There's a lot of advice.
00:48:16.000 | I'm sure I could say something much more poetic,
00:48:19.000 | which is if we stop thinking about it
00:48:22.000 | and just take steps every single day
00:48:25.000 | towards what it is we want,
00:48:28.000 | we might not get exactly what we want,
00:48:31.000 | but I suspect that we will get something better
00:48:34.000 | than where we're at right now.
00:48:37.000 | Joe, thanks for coming on.
00:48:40.000 | Share with us your website,
00:48:43.000 | any follow-up action steps that you'd love for my audience to take
00:48:46.000 | on your projects and your resources.
00:48:49.000 | The money-raising spreadsheet that I described,
00:48:52.000 | I actually have a template.
00:48:55.000 | My assistant, Samantha, would be happy to send that to you
00:48:58.000 | if you email info@joefferless.com.
00:49:01.000 | That's info@joefferless.com.
00:49:04.000 | And that's that spreadsheet where you list out the name,
00:49:07.000 | the network, how much you're going to invest.
00:49:10.000 | There's a couple of other things that I have in there.
00:49:13.000 | If you're raising money or want to raise money for real estate
00:49:16.000 | or for your business, small business,
00:49:19.000 | this spreadsheet would be helpful.
00:49:22.000 | Info@joefferless.com.