RPF0304-Friday_QA-Full-Time_Mothers_and

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00:00:29.800 | Today's Q&A episode of Radical Personal Finance is sponsored by SoFi, the social finance corporation.

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00:02:09.160 | Today we do a Q&A episode and this one's unique.

00:02:11.920 | We have one question, one caller.

00:02:14.600 | We spent 45 minutes or an hour just talking about the one question.

00:02:18.920 | It was a rich conversation on a difficult topic, which is how can husbands and wives

00:02:24.760 | handle their money together better?

00:02:43.840 | Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast.

00:02:45.720 | My name is Joshua Sheets and I'm your host, your guide, your Sherpa, hopefully your friend.

00:02:51.960 | Living a rich life now while building a plan for financial freedom in 10 years or less.

00:02:57.880 | Today is pretty much all about the rich life because I'll tell you what, there's riches

00:03:02.240 | and there's quality of life and hopefully today we're going to dig into quality of life

00:03:06.440 | and talk about things that matter.

00:03:15.700 | On Fridays I do these Q&A shows and I really love doing these.

00:03:19.480 | I'll tell you in a moment kind of, I'll do it now.

00:03:21.000 | I'll tell you why I started doing these shows.

00:03:23.400 | This Q&A show was an idea for me.

00:03:25.160 | One of the things I wanted to do was to streamline.

00:03:27.160 | I wanted to do more Q&A because I love doing Q&A, but I also wanted to streamline the production

00:03:31.040 | of it.

00:03:32.040 | So the first thing I wanted to do is I said, how can I do it and do it in an interactive

00:03:35.280 | way?

00:03:36.480 | Being a podcaster is a great thing, but it's also can be a lonely thing because it's just

00:03:39.760 | you talking into a mic.

00:03:40.840 | You don't get the feedback that you get speaking to a crowd.

00:03:44.200 | If you've never recorded a show, I encourage you to do it, but it's a strange situation

00:03:48.740 | because you got to speak, but you don't get the feedback from a crowd.

00:03:52.120 | Usually when you're giving a speech, you get eyes and you can see is the crowd receiving

00:03:56.340 | this?

00:03:57.340 | Is it not?

00:03:58.340 | After you've spoken for a while, you get to be pretty receptive as to the mood of the

00:04:00.620 | crowd.

00:04:01.620 | Well, podcasting is not like that.

00:04:02.980 | So I always like to get that interaction, but usually it comes not posthumously, it

00:04:06.820 | comes post, I don't know, after the show.

00:04:09.780 | That's when I get the reaction in the comments.

00:04:11.220 | By then it's too late.

00:04:12.220 | I can't do anything about it.

00:04:13.860 | So I thought it'd be fun to do a little live Q&A and have some interaction.

00:04:17.180 | The other reason I started to do this was as part of my own plan of preparation for

00:04:21.900 | possibly going to broadcast radio in the future.

00:04:24.860 | The end of 2015, I spent a lot of time wrestling with whether I wanted to take the show to

00:04:28.460 | the radio waves and ultimately decided the timing wasn't right if I ever do choose to

00:04:32.180 | do it.

00:04:33.220 | But the other thing I wasn't so confident is my skills.

00:04:36.740 | I wanted to improve my skills.

00:04:38.060 | I said, "How can I bring some of that live dynamic?"

00:04:39.980 | Well, I'll do a live Q&A call, which is what these Friday shows are now scheduled to be.

00:04:46.700 | And it's been fun.

00:04:48.020 | It's also been challenging because it requires me just to show up and speak on my feet.

00:04:53.500 | And I'll tell you, I might, especially today, you'll hear me hem and haw a little bit.

00:04:58.340 | I might seem like Mr. Confident or Mr. Brash or Provocative, but I'm really not.

00:05:03.740 | I'm kind of an introvert, but I'm willing to do it.

00:05:06.700 | I've made the commitment when I started the show.

00:05:08.220 | I'll just try to be clear and give the best answer as I can.

00:05:12.140 | So today was fun.

00:05:13.140 | I showed up to the call and there was one person on the call, one person listening in

00:05:17.500 | and one person there listening, there with a question.

00:05:20.820 | And so this entire Q&A call is just one conversation with a listener named Erica.

00:05:25.120 | And I think it was really good.

00:05:26.120 | It was really rich.

00:05:27.120 | It was unusual.

00:05:28.120 | And I wasn't expecting to talk about the things that we talked about, but I hope you enjoy

00:05:31.380 | and appreciate it.

00:05:33.660 | I'll play that interview for you.

00:05:35.060 | I'll play that call for you in just a moment.

00:05:39.220 | And just a tiny bit of preamble to the call.

00:05:42.460 | I hope you enjoy it.

00:05:43.540 | Some of you who, if you don't like it when I talk about my own perspectives, convictions

00:05:48.620 | with regard to religious conviction, this will be a show you'll want to skip because

00:05:52.980 | that's, especially at the front end, it's heavy on that.

00:05:55.860 | That was the question that I was asked.

00:05:57.340 | And so that was the question that I answered.

00:05:59.660 | So if you're not into that, please don't just comment about why you hate that.

00:06:06.260 | Just skip the show.

00:06:07.900 | Come back another day.

00:06:09.220 | But if you're willing to listen to that and listen to my own convictions, my own perspective,

00:06:14.900 | I do my best to share with you why I believe what I believe and why I do what I do.

00:06:20.200 | And I think there's some rich content here for many of you.

00:06:22.500 | And I hope you enjoy it.

00:06:23.500 | Erica was a wonderful lady to talk to.

00:06:25.740 | And she asked a great question.

00:06:28.140 | I try to record these shows usually with a start to finish.

00:06:31.140 | I hit record and then bring the callers on the line.

00:06:33.260 | I like that.

00:06:34.260 | It makes it smoother for me in the production.

00:06:36.560 | But today I didn't know if more people would call in.

00:06:38.780 | And so I just, I'm recording the intro now after I just hung up the phone with Erica.

00:06:43.980 | So that's going to be the call.

00:06:45.500 | Before I play the call for you, I won't come back at the end and do announcements.

00:06:48.940 | I'll just go ahead and do it here.

00:06:50.940 | This is a benefit.

00:06:51.940 | These calls are a benefit for patrons.

00:06:54.140 | And I would encourage you, if you would like to talk with me and discuss your question,

00:06:59.100 | your comment, get my answer.

00:07:00.300 | It can be technical, it can be my opinion.

00:07:02.860 | That's up to you.

00:07:03.860 | But I'll answer anything you want.

00:07:04.860 | I'll show up and I'll just talk with you on these calls.

00:07:08.600 | That's exactly what they are.

00:07:10.860 | And I'll give, I try to give everyone a chance to do it.

00:07:13.260 | I try to sense the flow of the time to commit to it.

00:07:16.260 | I'm learning with those things.

00:07:17.540 | But I'd love for you to be involved in that.

00:07:19.820 | Frankly, if you want to get my opinion on something, this is going to be your best way

00:07:22.380 | to do it.

00:07:23.380 | I get tons of emails.

00:07:24.380 | And thank you to those of you who've been resending your emails.

00:07:26.300 | I love getting emails.

00:07:27.300 | And as I said in a recent standalone episode, I respond to every email.

00:07:32.500 | But a lot of times my response is simply, "Hey, thank you for the question.

00:07:35.180 | I've added it to my Q&A queue.

00:07:37.180 | I keep a list of all of your questions and that way I have ideas to go to and answer

00:07:41.100 | questions sometimes."

00:07:42.500 | That's often a response.

00:07:43.500 | More often a response is, "Hey, I just can't address this in email.

00:07:47.020 | I'm sorry.

00:07:48.020 | But here are a couple things to consider and I just give a quick answer."

00:07:50.740 | But I get too many in-depth questions for me to be able to guarantee you your spot.

00:07:55.460 | But the way I'm doing these Q&A calls, you got a really good chance.

00:07:58.540 | So if you sign up to become a patron at the appropriate level, details on that at RadicalPersonalFinance.com/patron,

00:08:04.180 | you will get access to the time and the phone number for the call.

00:08:07.780 | You'll be able to call in and ask me your question.

00:08:09.580 | And I would love it if more of you were to do that.

00:08:13.380 | So check it out, RadicalPersonalFinance.com/patron.

00:08:16.540 | Now let's get to it.

00:08:17.540 | So we're here on the Q&A call and at the moment, we have exactly one participant.

00:08:24.620 | So for other listeners who want to join us in these Q&A, we've got a massive room open

00:08:32.240 | for you.

00:08:33.240 | So if you'd like to have a discussion, we've got one person hanging on the line to ask

00:08:36.820 | a question.

00:08:37.820 | And Erica, that means that we get as much time as you want to talk about anything that

00:08:41.260 | you want.

00:08:42.260 | You got—this is a high—hopefully a high—if I can say something intelligent, this is hopefully

00:08:46.860 | a high beneficial consulting call for you.

00:08:50.420 | You don't have to pay anything more than what you're already paying as a patron.

00:08:53.500 | And I'll give you as much time as we can.

00:08:55.100 | So welcome to the Friday Q&A call.

00:08:56.660 | How can I serve you today?

00:08:58.260 | Thank you so much, Joshua.

00:08:59.260 | Thank you for having this Q&A call for us.

00:09:00.260 | And I feel very lucky to be the one to get all of your time today.

00:09:06.820 | I listened to the Q&A call last week and I was really interested by the Q&A—the question

00:09:11.780 | about the roles of finances in a family between a husband and a wife.

00:09:16.540 | I have an economics degree, architecture minor, and I've been working in finance for about

00:09:22.460 | 10 years as an analyst and as a trader and that sort of thing.

00:09:26.300 | So I'm very up to date in investments and that sort of thing.

00:09:30.700 | And I'm working on my—on the actual money management, thanks to YNAB, because you turned

00:09:35.900 | me on to that late last year.

00:09:38.060 | My husband works in a corporate job and brings in pretty good income, enough where it should

00:09:42.740 | be more of an issue of allocation and use for us than trying to bring in more.

00:09:48.700 | But given my background, I have a hard time not wanting to earn money for the family,

00:09:53.780 | even though we have two young kids that we intend to homeschool.

00:09:57.860 | And basically, the question last week opened up a big, big question in my mind as to whether

00:10:03.980 | that set of roles and my feeling of a need to provide as well since I'm allocating

00:10:08.780 | the money we have, if that might be why I'm so hung up and why I'm still freelancing.

00:10:15.780 | Yeah, so that question caught me out of the blue last week, and I'm trying to keep these

00:10:19.620 | Q&A calls—I mean, it's just me, so this is just a conversation between a couple of

00:10:26.540 | people.

00:10:27.540 | But it's—I mean, frankly, I don't love to talk about—I don't love to be in the

00:10:33.380 | public eye, and I don't love to have my opinions criticized and dealt with.

00:10:39.340 | And that's what's challenging for me and why I kind of approached the topic gingerly.

00:10:42.740 | And I went ahead and shared what our perspective was.

00:10:45.100 | And I'm going to give you a straight answer, but I got to give a little bit of preamble

00:10:48.340 | in order to make myself feel better about it.

00:10:51.480 | But the answer that I gave was talking about the role of—what is my role in our family

00:10:56.260 | versus my wife's role in our family finances.

00:10:59.980 | And it's something that we've changed on over the years, and it's something that

00:11:03.260 | directly confronts biblical Christianity.

00:11:07.340 | And it's probably—it's uncomfortable for me to talk about in a public forum because

00:11:12.260 | it confronts so many of the arguments that go on in our culture.

00:11:15.820 | It's the popular culture, and you've got to trace it through gender relations throughout

00:11:20.740 | the last—I don't know, I guess since time immemorial.

00:11:23.660 | I mean, there's always had to deal with it.

00:11:25.900 | And in our country and in our culture, this is like the massive press of culture around

00:11:32.340 | with—it started back in the '60s and '70s with the major revolution, the feminist revolution

00:11:38.980 | that dramatically changed gender roles.

00:11:41.340 | And fast forward, even to today, we see with the role of marriage, the role of now gender

00:11:49.420 | identity is the major theme that's in the news.

00:11:51.980 | I mean, you can't pick up a newspaper without seeing an article at it.

00:11:54.920 | And so, I also feel a lack of personal—a lack of real confidence because I'm a young

00:12:00.700 | husband.

00:12:01.700 | I've been married for four years, four or five years, something like that now.

00:12:08.500 | January 1, 2012, do the math, that's how long we've been married.

00:12:11.820 | And so, you've had to learn as a new spouse, as a new couple, we've had to learn over

00:12:16.420 | the years and try different things.

00:12:18.740 | So, I'll just tell you kind of my perspective on it and where I've grown to, but with those

00:12:25.640 | caveats of recognizing I'm a young husband and I don't love to talk publicly, so it's

00:12:30.680 | just a conversation between friends, obviously, with other people listening.

00:12:34.980 | Just for me to understand, though, are you guys Christians?

00:12:39.360 | We are.

00:12:40.360 | He was raised Catholic.

00:12:41.360 | I was raised—Mom sent me to Sunday school so I'd be exposed.

00:12:44.720 | I wasn't exposed enough, so I actually just ordered a copy of the Geneva Bible, and so

00:12:48.800 | I'm reading that one now, just to build a stronger foundation as opposed to sort of

00:12:53.720 | the hodgepodge that I have.

00:12:55.120 | Right.

00:12:56.120 | But it's more an issue that I'd like to sort of talk through some of the issues, because

00:13:00.440 | you exposed the question as to whether it's that feeling that feminism has given me that

00:13:08.280 | I need to contribute financially more than anything that's driving this feeling that

00:13:14.380 | maybe I'm not enough if I'm simply managing my family and perhaps also helping on the

00:13:20.120 | financial side.

00:13:21.120 | Right.

00:13:22.120 | I know it seems that in your family, especially being a financial planner, and with all the

00:13:27.320 | background that you have, it also seems to suit your strengths to have you do all of

00:13:32.120 | that management as well.

00:13:35.040 | And I wonder if you have a perspective—I know this is just your thought and just what

00:13:40.600 | you have, but I know a lot of us are sort of floundering in this idea of how do we recreate

00:13:46.560 | what we do, whether it's within the scheme of what has historically been done with what's

00:13:51.800 | been presented to us or figuring out what works for us.

00:13:54.600 | So I welcome a conversation.

00:13:56.600 | Right, absolutely.

00:13:57.600 | So I'll begin with my presupposition.

00:14:00.100 | So my presupposition is that, based upon external evidence and also based upon my own personal

00:14:09.800 | conviction—so the external evidence is a discussion where you have to prove the authenticity

00:14:14.240 | and authority of the Bible.

00:14:17.040 | That's a long-winded conversation as far as different perspectives.

00:14:22.580 | Much of history, the general challenge and struggle between worldviews has been, do we

00:14:27.280 | base our systems and our actions and our behaviors on a biblical framework or do we base them

00:14:34.740 | on something else, some other creation?

00:14:37.880 | And Western society was founded upon a direct approach of saying, "We're going to implement

00:14:44.260 | and live under the authority of biblical scripture and biblical precept and concept."

00:14:48.640 | That's been the foundation of Western society.

00:14:51.280 | That's changing now.

00:14:53.000 | We're moving into a much more secular society and that has different skirmishes on the edges

00:14:58.280 | where things are changing.

00:15:00.640 | I choose to believe the Bible and I choose to place the Bible as the highest authority

00:15:08.040 | for the way that I act.

00:15:09.260 | So I look then to say, "Does the Bible have a clear teaching or does it have principles

00:15:14.360 | that I can draw from that will be applicable to my modern life?"

00:15:20.680 | There are various reasons why I choose that.

00:15:24.440 | I won't go into it here, but I'll say the best, most concise summary of it that I've

00:15:29.560 | ever heard verbalized and that you may find particularly valuable.

00:15:32.920 | There's a preacher that I like, his name is Vodie Bauckham and he has a, I'll look it

00:15:38.520 | up and include it in the show notes, but he has an interesting speech that he made, I

00:15:45.640 | believe it was on a college campus, but it was just entitled, "Why I Choose to Believe

00:15:48.480 | the Bible."

00:15:49.760 | And from scripture, he draws this statement.

00:15:51.440 | He says, "I choose to believe the Bible because it's a reliable collection of historical documents

00:15:57.120 | written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses.

00:16:02.000 | They report supernatural events which happened in fulfillment of specific prophecy and they

00:16:08.920 | claim to be divine rather than human in origin."

00:16:12.960 | So, that's the verbatim quote of what he teaches and he unpacks that in a sermon.

00:16:17.040 | I don't think it's directly related to finance, but for anyone who's interested in that topic,

00:16:21.000 | I would encourage it as a good, useful place to start.

00:16:24.440 | And for you, as you're considering, what do I believe and why do I believe it, that's

00:16:28.240 | where I go to.

00:16:29.240 | So, in the Bible, the Bible teaches, clearly talks about gender roles and on biblical authority,

00:16:36.800 | you see that husbands and wives are brought together as one and they have different functions

00:16:43.000 | in the family.

00:16:44.680 | And when looked at specifically, there is not the major question in our modern age is,

00:16:51.600 | does that mean that one is more valuable or less valuable?

00:16:55.600 | In the Bible, women and men are equally valuable and so, that's the first major hurdle that

00:17:01.120 | people have to face is, does the Bible teach that men and women are differently of value?

00:17:06.160 | Historically, it's interesting, if you look at Jewish culture, you find actually an esteem

00:17:12.260 | of women that was far above many of the historical cultures.

00:17:16.280 | So, you have to balance, are men and women equally valuable?

00:17:21.400 | Yes.

00:17:22.800 | Are they different in function?

00:17:24.520 | And in that regard, the Bible teaches very clearly that men and women are different in

00:17:27.360 | function.

00:17:28.480 | And so, I wasn't prepared to do a Bible study with chapter and verse today, but that's something

00:17:32.780 | for another day.

00:17:34.480 | But specifically, what it teaches is that the man has the responsibility for providing

00:17:38.840 | for the family and the wife has the primary responsibility for providing within the home.

00:17:45.560 | That's a scriptural teaching and there are various verses that could be referenced about

00:17:49.480 | that.

00:17:50.480 | So, what you see clearly is you see an authority and a responsibility that's placed upon the

00:17:55.520 | husband.

00:17:56.520 | So, when I said last week that I said that it's my responsibility, that ultimately, I'm

00:18:03.720 | the one who bears all of the responsibility.

00:18:06.760 | And for me to place any of the responsibility onto my wife to provide for our income, to

00:18:11.320 | provide for the care and protection of our family, that would be an abdication of my

00:18:16.680 | responsibility.

00:18:17.680 | So, I take full responsibility for all of those aspects.

00:18:24.360 | My wife's major responsibility and her major calling is to function within our family.

00:18:29.240 | And that is more valuable with the children and in our family to keep our home operating

00:18:34.680 | at peak perfection.

00:18:35.680 | So, there's a division of responsibility there.

00:18:38.900 | What happens is that if I place a responsibility on her to where she's got to function effectively

00:18:46.080 | in the home and outside of the home, it causes a very difficult stretching.

00:18:52.240 | It causes something...something's got to be ignored in that situation.

00:18:55.800 | Now, I don't think these lines are cut and dry in this sense.

00:19:01.320 | As a father, I am responsible for what's happening in my home.

00:19:04.680 | So, my heart has been over the years, I desire to be present in my home.

00:19:09.400 | And I usually like to start, if I were going to preach on the subject in another forum

00:19:14.000 | other than Radical Personal Finance, I always start with the men.

00:19:17.240 | And I generally speak more strongly to men than I do to women because it's our responsibility

00:19:22.040 | to lead.

00:19:23.040 | So, as an example, I don't maintain activities that are going to take me out of the home

00:19:27.800 | during my family time.

00:19:29.000 | I don't maintain hobbies.

00:19:30.120 | I don't maintain activities that are my thing.

00:19:32.600 | I don't golf.

00:19:33.600 | I don't go fishing.

00:19:34.600 | It's not a rule that I can't do it.

00:19:37.160 | But on an ongoing basis, my heart is for my home and for my children.

00:19:40.680 | And that's my number one calling in life is first to labor in my house.

00:19:45.640 | It's not to be rich.

00:19:46.840 | It's not to become wealthy.

00:19:47.880 | My number one calling in life is to labor within my family and to raise my children.

00:19:51.960 | Now, I'm going to integrate them into other things and I want to live a life that's fully

00:19:56.440 | integrated.

00:19:57.440 | But my calling is at home, is to be there and to serve my family.

00:20:04.560 | I'm also responsible for going out from the house to the world and that's where I'm also

00:20:08.600 | responsible to go and earn an income.

00:20:12.920 | I'm responsible to support the family.

00:20:14.680 | But I try to do that always with the vision of being as involved in my family's lifestyle

00:20:19.480 | as possible.

00:20:20.480 | So, that's why I've worked hard to build the work that I do now.

00:20:25.660 | As we record this call, I'm sitting in what technically is a third bedroom in my house

00:20:30.280 | and my kids are napping.

00:20:31.960 | My wife is in the other room right before I came in and hit record and fired up the

00:20:35.120 | call.

00:20:36.120 | I kissed them good to go and have a nap.

00:20:37.800 | So, that's the type of lifestyle I'm trying to build that's integrative.

00:20:41.320 | But if there's a direction, a change of direction, then my calling is to do the work that's required

00:20:47.080 | outside of the home and my wife's calling is to do the work that's inside the home.

00:20:51.000 | Now, that's – we accept that based upon a submission to biblical authority and to

00:20:56.200 | God.

00:20:57.200 | When I became a Christian, many people, I believe, misperceive becoming a Christian

00:21:06.680 | as something that's – it's just a decision that, "Okay, this is true."

00:21:12.720 | When I became a Christian, I became a slave of Christ.

00:21:14.880 | And so, that's that fundamental basis of authority and it's always on that basis

00:21:19.080 | of my submission to God's authority in my life that I even have the right or responsibility

00:21:25.200 | to exercise authority in my family.

00:21:27.400 | Moving on to practical expression of it.

00:21:29.900 | The biggest practical expression that I identified with – that I was speaking on last week

00:21:35.880 | was simply that what I – the challenge that my wife and I faced is that we have been raised

00:21:44.000 | in a gender-neutralized society and both of us have been raised in that context.

00:21:50.800 | And because of that, I generally have always wanted to run away.

00:21:55.120 | I never want to push anything on my wife.

00:21:57.640 | I never want to indicate any gender differences.

00:22:00.800 | Many ways we've been – I feel like I've been neutered by modern society and finding

00:22:05.200 | that proper expression of masculinity and femininity is a challenge.

00:22:10.060 | She was raised as wanting to contribute and wanting to contribute financially.

00:22:16.040 | And so, when she was – she actually came into our marriage – my wife is an amazing

00:22:21.740 | manager of money.

00:22:23.340 | I had made – prior to our marriage, I had made some boneheaded business decisions which

00:22:28.760 | haunted me for years.

00:22:29.760 | I had to work very hard to overcome them.

00:22:33.480 | Specifically, I let my business get out of whack and let my expenses of my business vastly

00:22:39.080 | exceed what they should have been and it resulted in my burning a lot of money that I had saved.

00:22:44.580 | And so, when we actually came into our marriage relationship, she came in with more money

00:22:49.100 | in her pocket than I did which was really, really frustrating to me because I thought,

00:22:53.680 | "Well, I'm supposed to be this great top-notch financial guy.

00:22:57.880 | I've been studying personal finance for a really long time and I'm supposed to be

00:23:01.800 | rich."

00:23:02.800 | And I had lost a bunch of money on some bad investments.

00:23:05.680 | I wound up completely – anyway, I lost money and it was a painful experience to me.

00:23:13.440 | And then in paying for the aspects of buying engagement rings and those normal marriage

00:23:20.280 | expenses and setting up honeymoons and all of that, I spent a majority of the liquid

00:23:25.120 | cash that I had.

00:23:26.280 | And I – so it was really humbling that I thought I was Mr. Big Shot Financial Guy and

00:23:31.800 | I wound up being the broke one.

00:23:33.800 | And she came in and she had been diligently saving.

00:23:36.160 | She never made a lot of money but she'd always been very careful with her expenses

00:23:39.160 | and she'd been diligently saving.

00:23:41.000 | And so we approached it in the beginning of trying to say, "Well, we should – both

00:23:46.960 | of us should – we should do everything equally."

00:23:49.880 | And that was what I was taught is that we should do everything equally.

00:23:53.280 | We should sit down and one of us, whoever is more financially proficient, should run

00:23:59.320 | the budget.

00:24:00.320 | One of us who's more technically capable should be the one to keep the checkbook and

00:24:05.120 | all of those things.

00:24:06.120 | That was how we started.

00:24:07.480 | But what I found was that if I needed to make – let's say I needed to make a business

00:24:12.120 | decision or if she needed to make a decision with something in the household that was under

00:24:16.860 | her jurisdiction, then we found that there was a tension there.

00:24:20.760 | And if – and it did her – and it didn't do a lot of good especially once she came

00:24:25.900 | home when we had our first baby – right before we had our first baby.

00:24:31.400 | It doesn't do her any good to say, "We got to make more money.

00:24:34.160 | We're getting broke.

00:24:35.160 | We got to make more money," when she's taking care of a baby.

00:24:37.760 | How is it going to work where if she's going to have to take the responsibility of the

00:24:41.040 | stress of saying, "We don't have a lot of money," and then – but she is not free

00:24:46.780 | because of her duties with the little baby who needs her all day long if she's not

00:24:52.200 | free to go and do the work.

00:24:53.320 | That was what the reality was in that book that I referenced, Man of Steel and Velvet,

00:24:58.880 | where the author of that book is really the only place I've ever read it, where he pointed

00:25:02.760 | out that when you take responsibility, you also have to take authority.

00:25:07.040 | You can't delegate – you can't ask someone to bear a burden without also giving them

00:25:13.120 | the authority to do it.

00:25:15.120 | And so once that came down and we realized the stress that it was causing for her to

00:25:21.600 | have this divided attention and she would be frustrated, which it's possible.

00:25:25.120 | I mean I don't know anything about your financial situation.

00:25:28.160 | But what I see so many of my friends doing is they put the stress on their wife and they

00:25:33.440 | don't take the responsibility.

00:25:34.960 | And one of the things that's always puzzled me as I've searched and looked at the scripture

00:25:38.440 | and tried to figure out like how do you apply this in a modern way, the thing that's often

00:25:43.020 | puzzled me is it seems to me, based upon personal experience, that women are naturally more

00:25:48.680 | capable than men.

00:25:50.800 | My wife is, I believe, she just seems much more capable than men.

00:25:54.960 | From the earliest age, girls seem to mature faster than boys.

00:25:58.200 | And so she's more technically competent, she's in some ways more rational, she's

00:26:02.320 | more thoughtful, she has a better ability to control her urges and her impulses.

00:26:07.040 | And so I think, "God, it doesn't make any sense.

00:26:09.160 | Why on earth would you tell me to be responsible and her to work with me in that?

00:26:14.920 | Why don't I just put it onto her?"

00:26:16.880 | But what I also see is that I see that men, we don't want the responsibility.

00:26:21.680 | And this is the best I've come up with at this point, is that the reason that God places

00:26:25.440 | the responsibility on men is because it touches that thing that we don't want to touch.

00:26:30.840 | Men find it easy to run away from their families, to run away to their golf game, find it easy

00:26:34.960 | to say, "I'll just dump it on my wife.

00:26:37.000 | Here, honey, here's the paycheck.

00:26:38.000 | Now I'm going to go do my thing."

00:26:40.040 | And so by me being responsible, it forces me to confront the reality of the situation

00:26:45.240 | that I'm in.

00:26:46.400 | So I don't – so those are the principles.

00:26:49.720 | When it comes to actual application, that's about where I would stop in terms of giving

00:26:53.840 | advice to people because I don't see – I don't draw from those principles a specific

00:27:04.080 | rule.

00:27:05.080 | I would not go to somebody and say, "You can't do part-time work."

00:27:10.920 | I think if I were to say that, that would be anti-biblical.

00:27:14.800 | So for example, the scripture, the reference there is that's often referenced, Proverbs

00:27:18.360 | 31 is an amazing account of what the Bible holds out as the ideal woman.

00:27:23.720 | And the ideal woman is a woman of business.

00:27:26.320 | And so you ask yourself, how does this – how is this applied?

00:27:29.520 | It's not from the – I would – I personally would not at this point in my understanding,

00:27:34.280 | I would not apply it in terms of a rule of saying, "No, you shouldn't do a business

00:27:40.760 | or you shouldn't use this skill that you have or you shouldn't use this ability that

00:27:44.840 | you have."

00:27:45.840 | I don't have any rule associated with it.

00:27:48.360 | What I would – how I would apply it is if I met your husband or any husband that was

00:27:53.640 | a Christian, if I found out that they were placing a responsibility on their spouse to

00:27:59.520 | support the family financially, and if that responsibility to support the family financially

00:28:05.000 | is interfering with the ability to love your children, to love the family, I would believe

00:28:11.400 | – I believe that would be a problem.

00:28:14.880 | And that's where I would privately, if the person were open, I would privately encourage

00:28:20.560 | them, "Listen, you need to do this."

00:28:21.920 | I believe that for the sake of my children, and I've seen this worked out and my wife

00:28:25.640 | and I were talking, because after last week's show, I said, "Oh man, I just – I opened

00:28:29.700 | up a can of worms."

00:28:31.640 | I didn't necessarily intend to get into that.

00:28:33.120 | It's hard for me to talk about some of those private things.

00:28:34.880 | I'm not used to it.

00:28:36.120 | And I went and we were talking about it all again and I said, "Are you happier?

00:28:39.760 | Do you feel happier?"

00:28:41.040 | And she said, "Absolutely.

00:28:42.640 | It's better."

00:28:44.360 | And when I – I'm going to bring what I'm saying to a close here just with – for me

00:28:50.660 | and for us, I believe it would be a better result in our family.

00:28:55.960 | If I didn't have earning capacity, I believe it would be a better result in our family

00:29:03.480 | for me to go and get two jobs if I had to, and for my wife to be caring and pouring into

00:29:09.320 | the lives of our kids.

00:29:10.800 | I believe that would be what I would – what we would choose to do rather than to say,

00:29:15.080 | "Okay, we both got to go and work."

00:29:16.640 | Now, thankfully, I also believe there are options.

00:29:19.160 | For example, if we would move into a smaller apartment, we would move into a cheaper lifestyle

00:29:25.560 | before we would force her to go and earn income.

00:29:30.920 | And the challenge that I've had is trying to sort it through.

00:29:34.520 | Just this morning, I was reading a book by Mary Eberstadt.

00:29:37.520 | I think I may have mentioned it before, but the book was called Adam and Eve After the

00:29:43.240 | Pill, The Paradoxes of the Sexual Revolution.

00:29:45.720 | And what's interesting to me is to go through, because there's such a political orientation

00:29:49.900 | for people trying to promote an agenda, I've been interested to go through and try to read

00:29:54.640 | what is some of the research on children, the presence of a father, the presence of

00:29:59.000 | a mother.

00:30:00.000 | And it's always difficult to filter through the political agenda as compared to the actual

00:30:05.280 | facts, the sociological health of the family and of the children.

00:30:09.280 | So I'll shut up now, Erica, and just let you respond and ask further questions.

00:30:14.240 | Was that anything like what you were thinking about, asking about?

00:30:17.720 | Absolutely.

00:30:19.480 | And I actually have a little bit more dialogue with that.

00:30:21.600 | But what I find so helpful for this as a woman and as a wife is it's really hard to get into

00:30:26.520 | your own husband's head, because they feel certain obligations to not put a burden on

00:30:31.920 | you by saying that, "I'd rather have you home," and not working, because the man might

00:30:37.360 | feel that then they're telling the wife that they can't work outside of the house.

00:30:41.880 | And it just gets, when you're so deep in a relationship, sometimes it's hard to know

00:30:46.600 | how much you're trying to satisfy and please the other person's needs versus what you actually

00:30:51.640 | want and what you need out of a relationship.

00:30:53.520 | So I really appreciate seeing a strong husband's perspective on this as well and hearing from

00:30:59.480 | your wife.

00:31:02.160 | Looking to all of that, too, it's actually funny, because Proverbs was the first one

00:31:05.680 | that I read when I got the New Geneva Bible, and I actually saw Proverbs 31 as the man

00:31:13.440 | has gathered and hunted, and then within the household, the woman has then made the most

00:31:18.400 | of it.

00:31:19.400 | And I actually saw that as more the role of the woman helping within the household, as

00:31:23.000 | opposed to going out and doing business deals that are outside of the family's business.

00:31:26.560 | So I find it interesting that you see that as more supportive of the working outside

00:31:31.080 | of the home.

00:31:32.080 | But there's a million and one different interpretations.

00:31:35.560 | Let me respond to that real quick, or to both of those things, because they're both valuable

00:31:42.720 | things.

00:31:43.720 | And I want to just make a note of the question that you were going to go on with.

00:31:47.600 | First, as far as the men, what you identified as far as husbands saying to their wives,

00:31:55.880 | I see this as it's a real challenge in our culture, and that's what I talked about in

00:32:01.320 | many ways being feeling neutered.

00:32:04.480 | I personally have a real burden for men.

00:32:07.000 | And burden, I use that term, that's a Christian-ese term, but meaning I feel a calling, a responsibility,

00:32:13.280 | a desire, a goal, a burden.

00:32:16.400 | It's not a negative thing when I say a burden.

00:32:18.320 | It means like it's something that's just on my heart.

00:32:20.200 | It's one of those things that's important to me.

00:32:23.380 | And so that's why I started my other show, Encouraging Christian Fathers.

00:32:27.600 | And frankly, in many ways, I don't particularly desire to speak to women in the sense that

00:32:33.840 | I believe that if men would stand up and if they would lead and if they would be worthy

00:32:38.440 | of respect, that's the primary responsibility.

00:32:42.000 | I don't believe it's my responsibility to go and tell a lot of other people, especially

00:32:46.520 | – I don't believe it's my responsibility to go out and try to preach to women.

00:32:50.040 | I find that the men are generally the problem, and so I want to speak to men.

00:32:56.440 | And what you identified, though, is exactly kind of when I shared last week, I shared

00:33:00.360 | the story of my friend and I said, "This is the same thing that is happening."

00:33:05.600 | And I have seen this continually in close relationships, people who I care about.

00:33:12.080 | And as a product of the feminist revolution, as a product of – let's just stick with

00:33:17.840 | that – we as men have been raised and trained to be respectful and careful and not to exclude

00:33:26.160 | women.

00:33:27.160 | And so what happens now is instead of a man being willing to lovingly say to his wife,

00:33:30.960 | "Listen, honey, you don't have to work," we always have to say, "You don't have

00:33:34.160 | to work unless you want to, and I want to make sure that you have everything that's

00:33:37.040 | there."

00:33:38.040 | Now, I don't know how to solve that problem.

00:33:40.040 | All I know is that in the context of a loving relationship with personal communication between

00:33:43.800 | husbands and wives, as they continue to communicate, if I encourage men to serve and to love their

00:33:49.920 | wives, I believe that the women will respond and they'll be able to work it out as communication

00:33:54.640 | skills grow.

00:33:55.960 | But you're exactly right with your analysis, is that even to this day, I personally am

00:34:01.920 | very, very careful of the demands that I place upon my wife, and I'm very, very cautious.

00:34:07.920 | Now, I think that's a right thing to do.

00:34:10.420 | Love is always with caution.

00:34:12.700 | As I said, I hope clearly last week, I'm not making a major financial decision without

00:34:17.980 | my wife.

00:34:20.260 | I'm not going to do it because she's there as knowing me, and she's a wise source of

00:34:25.940 | counsel.

00:34:27.140 | So I'm not going to make a major decision.

00:34:28.900 | I'm not going to say, "I'm going to go and do this thing here," unless she's

00:34:32.020 | on board with that because that's part of my safety net.

00:34:35.940 | But if something goes wrong, I'm not blaming her.

00:34:38.180 | It's my fault.

00:34:39.740 | So you identified the issue.

00:34:42.620 | With regard to Proverbs 31, it is an interesting passage and I'm not prepared at the moment

00:34:50.020 | to do a full exegesis to use Christianese words of like, pull it all out.

00:34:55.500 | I think it's true and I guess the biggest thing that you see in Proverbs 31 is you see

00:35:02.780 | that it is one scripture passage from which you can draw the principle that the woman

00:35:08.340 | is a homemaker, she's focused on her home and her husband is known in the gates.

00:35:14.300 | And when both of those roles are fully committed to and fully appreciated, it leads to incredible

00:35:21.780 | results.

00:35:22.780 | It would not be possible for me to build radical personal finance.

00:35:27.300 | It would not be possible for me to fulfill my calling of the things that I'm called

00:35:30.500 | to do if my wife were not fully on board with it and if I didn't have the confidence that

00:35:35.820 | my home was well taken care of.

00:35:37.940 | And so it's a valid point.

00:35:40.740 | I'll have to go back and take a look again.

00:35:44.900 | I haven't read that scripture in a while.

00:35:46.540 | Go ahead with your next question and response, please.

00:35:49.980 | I guess that in response, when you were talking about your wife feeling better when she wasn't

00:35:54.140 | stretched so thin to so many areas, I personally stretch myself in so many areas that that's

00:35:59.220 | why I feel like it's hard to do anything to the standards that I require.

00:36:04.860 | My house isn't how it should be for either myself or for my husband or for our two kids.

00:36:10.700 | As a man building a business, you think it really helps to have the whole house under

00:36:15.100 | control?

00:36:16.100 | And that makes you feel less concerned?

00:36:19.540 | Without question.

00:36:20.940 | And one of the concepts that I think is so powerful is many times people feel in our

00:36:26.180 | modern culture, we've accepted the idea that being a father or being a mother is somehow

00:36:35.500 | less valuable than other functions and other work in society.

00:36:41.540 | And so as I always prefer to do, I'll speak to fathers.

00:36:45.100 | If my job or my business is conflicting with my family, I will not do it no matter what.

00:36:52.100 | There is not a job opportunity in the world that if it conflicts with my family and causes

00:36:57.140 | me to not have to do it, I won't take it.

00:37:00.500 | Best example, I always wanted to be a truck driver.

00:37:02.300 | I always thought it would be so fun to be a truck driver.

00:37:04.780 | There's not a chance in the world that I would be a truck driver with having a wife and kids.

00:37:09.700 | I'd be on the road 13 days out of 14, home for one night every two weeks or a couple

00:37:14.840 | nights every few weeks, calling home every night for an hour.

00:37:19.060 | That's simply not going to work.

00:37:20.820 | I would rather in my order of priorities, I believe and I would counsel men who are

00:37:25.380 | in the situation.

00:37:26.380 | I'm not saying that – there's lots of men who are stuck in this situation, but I would

00:37:29.700 | rather that we live in a very humble house and we don't have a car and I take whatever

00:37:35.980 | job I'm suited for that has me home in the evening and during the night and during the

00:37:41.780 | day.

00:37:42.780 | I fear right now as we record this, we're in the middle of a political election season.

00:37:47.300 | I would never even consider running for a political – I wouldn't really consider

00:37:52.540 | running for a political office, but I wouldn't even consider running for political office

00:37:55.940 | when I had young children because if you think about the plight of a politician when they

00:38:01.060 | have young children, you're going to miss five years, ten years of your child's life.

00:38:07.340 | For me, that's a categorical no.

00:38:09.020 | Being president of the United States is not nearly as important as loving and serving

00:38:13.260 | my children.

00:38:14.260 | I love and serve my children, but I would never consider running for the presidency

00:38:17.740 | of the United States.

00:38:18.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:19.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:20.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:21.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:22.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:23.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:24.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:25.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:26.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:27.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:28.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:29.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:30.740 | I would never consider running for the presidency of the United States.

00:38:31.740 | That is my first and foremost responsibility and calling.

00:38:35.560 | And that's job number one.

00:38:37.860 | And you can't offer me a job that's gonna hinder that

00:38:40.220 | and expect me to take it.

00:38:41.700 | Money is not my determinant of success.

00:38:43.740 | And again, this is based very clearly on biblical teaching.

00:38:47.460 | First, just two biblical passages.

00:38:49.740 | One, Paul says, "What is a profit of man

00:38:53.180 | "if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?"

00:38:56.300 | So I never place money and finance and business

00:38:58.900 | at the top of my scale.

00:39:01.140 | Number two, even a subset of that,

00:39:03.060 | what is a profit of man if he gains the whole world

00:39:04.820 | and loses his family?

00:39:05.900 | And so here's where in ministry,

00:39:08.820 | every single one of my credentials for ministry,

00:39:12.940 | for being able to be involved and respected

00:39:16.860 | in the working of the church is based upon my family.

00:39:19.620 | And it's based upon my character.

00:39:21.180 | It's not based upon how much money I have.

00:39:23.140 | The only scriptural qualifications regarding money

00:39:25.060 | is that I'm a generous giver

00:39:26.260 | and that I'm able to support my family.

00:39:27.900 | Those are the only qualifications.

00:39:29.580 | But there's no dollar figure,

00:39:30.880 | there's no relative wealth scale attached to that.

00:39:33.220 | But if my household is not under authority,

00:39:36.620 | if my household is not functioning,

00:39:37.940 | if my wife is not loved, if my children are rebellious,

00:39:40.580 | then I'm completely disqualified from everything else.

00:39:43.800 | So for fathers first, those are all of my responsibilities.

00:39:48.020 | And the same thing is true for mothers.

00:39:49.560 | And so what I have a heart for

00:39:52.740 | is that we've lost so much the ability

00:39:56.300 | to conceive of being a father or a mother

00:39:59.100 | in even a professional capacity.

00:40:01.240 | So you used to take classes on home economics,

00:40:03.280 | you used to take classes on things of family.

00:40:06.080 | Today, all of that has been traded for a career orientation.

00:40:10.200 | But like my wife, when I look at what she's able to do,

00:40:13.220 | I'm amazed at what she's able to do with our children.

00:40:16.220 | I mean, she does preschool with my son.

00:40:17.720 | My son is two and a half years old

00:40:19.080 | and she's able to sit down with him.

00:40:20.560 | We spent hours reading with him, doing preschool with him.

00:40:23.760 | At two and a half years old,

00:40:25.400 | we were looking at a book that's called

00:40:26.920 | "What Your Child Should Know in Kindergartener."

00:40:28.840 | And my son, at this point, two and a half,

00:40:31.040 | can, I can't, let me be careful

00:40:33.600 | 'cause I don't wanna oversell it.

00:40:35.880 | But he's able to do many of the things

00:40:39.440 | that a kindergartner should be able to do.

00:40:40.680 | He knows all his colors, he knows his shapes,

00:40:42.420 | he knows all of the sounds of his A through Z.

00:40:45.660 | We haven't really done the song,

00:40:46.960 | but we went with, to teach him to read,

00:40:49.080 | we went with the sounds first instead of the letters.

00:40:51.000 | He can count, I think he's up to 17 now.

00:40:54.000 | We skipped one to 10 and we just said,

00:40:55.680 | we're gonna teach you one to 100.

00:40:56.720 | So he loves to count, he loves to sing.

00:40:58.400 | Like, all of these things that she can do,

00:41:00.200 | but those are all so time consuming.

00:41:02.480 | And then the little character things.

00:41:04.120 | So, sitting down and teaching, you know,

00:41:07.080 | for him, teaching my son, teaching Sterling,

00:41:09.240 | saying, okay, time to put away toys.

00:41:11.720 | Well, when he was one and a half

00:41:13.020 | and it was time to put away toys,

00:41:14.640 | it was about a 35 minute process.

00:41:16.720 | And I don't, he doesn't wanna do it.

00:41:17.840 | Well, he wants, okay.

00:41:18.800 | So, for her, at that point,

00:41:20.920 | even before my daughter was able to be built,

00:41:23.280 | there was one time where she sat on the floor with him,

00:41:25.960 | patiently, working with him,

00:41:28.040 | until he was able to put away his toys.

00:41:30.320 | That's not possible if you don't have the time.

00:41:33.140 | Now, I look at that and I look at the character

00:41:35.760 | that's being sown in his life, by her presence in his life.

00:41:39.320 | And I look at the discipline of his self-discipline,

00:41:42.000 | his ability to control his emotions,

00:41:43.540 | ability to follow through on a task.

00:41:45.320 | And I fast forward that and I say,

00:41:47.680 | where is he gonna be at 30 years old?

00:41:50.000 | I would not be, and I always, I hate to sound arrogant,

00:41:53.320 | but I have to be accurate.

00:41:56.560 | So, please recognize this with a spirit of humility.

00:42:00.480 | But I would not be the man I am

00:42:03.760 | without the love and care of my parents.

00:42:08.080 | Most importantly, in different ways,

00:42:10.460 | but especially in those early years of my mom.

00:42:12.800 | And there were those years of her pouring into me

00:42:15.400 | and her holding me accountable.

00:42:18.000 | And those things, when you study childhood development,

00:42:20.400 | you see how in the first few years of a child's life,

00:42:23.120 | that completely transforms the course of a child's life.

00:42:26.920 | And so, when I look at investments,

00:42:29.760 | and we talk to my wife sometimes,

00:42:31.920 | I talk about all the things that are going on with the show.

00:42:33.760 | And we talk about it and I say, you know what?

00:42:36.760 | Comparatively speaking, let's say that you go get a job

00:42:39.120 | outside the house and you're earning income.

00:42:41.000 | That would be what our society

00:42:43.080 | would respect on a broader basis.

00:42:45.840 | What do you do?

00:42:46.680 | Oh, I'm an advertising executive or whatever.

00:42:48.600 | That would be what our society would respect.

00:42:51.320 | But what are we gonna do with the money?

00:42:53.600 | Okay, we're gonna pay a bunch of money in taxes,

00:42:55.120 | and we're gonna save some money

00:42:55.940 | and put it in a retirement account.

00:42:57.520 | How much, it's also, however, what about this?

00:43:00.660 | Let's sow into our kids so that they don't need us,

00:43:03.140 | so they're not boomerang children,

00:43:04.880 | regressing into our home as a spoiled brat,

00:43:07.400 | 25-year-old boy who has never learned how to be a man.

00:43:11.380 | Let's teach him how to be a man,

00:43:12.840 | and then we don't have to incur that financial expense

00:43:14.800 | of supporting our boomerang child for 11 years.

00:43:17.400 | Or let's sow into our children a relationship.

00:43:20.000 | Where, like, to this day,

00:43:21.240 | if my parents had any financial need whatsoever,

00:43:23.840 | I would, in a second, and someday I hope to do this,

00:43:26.960 | they're at a stage of life

00:43:27.800 | where they are enjoying their independence,

00:43:29.240 | but someday I hope they will come and live with my family

00:43:31.520 | and live with our other children.

00:43:32.840 | And it's not from a begrudging,

00:43:35.040 | oh, I've gotta do it for my parents.

00:43:36.840 | It's because of the relationship that's sown

00:43:38.800 | and that's built that I have this relationship with them

00:43:41.140 | where I want them to be involved in my life.

00:43:43.480 | That wouldn't have happened

00:43:44.400 | if my dad were off conquering political campaigns

00:43:47.960 | and my mom were off earning lots of money.

00:43:51.400 | Last week, I took a road trip with my dad,

00:43:57.120 | and he goes to some of my conferences with me now.

00:43:59.360 | His work schedule now is very flexible.

00:44:01.120 | And he goes to some of my conferences.

00:44:02.360 | The only reason he comes is so that we can ride in the car

00:44:04.200 | and talk together.

00:44:05.040 | And so last year, we went to Texas together,

00:44:07.900 | and I think we played one hour of audio the whole trip,

00:44:10.920 | there and three hours or so back.

00:44:13.560 | The rest of the time, we were talking.

00:44:14.660 | We went up to Tennessee.

00:44:15.500 | We played about two hours of something to listen to,

00:44:17.600 | and the rest of the 24 hours together in the car,

00:44:20.440 | we were talking.

00:44:21.280 | And so that type of relationship doesn't come by accident.

00:44:24.040 | That type of relationship with my children

00:44:26.080 | is not gonna come if I'm out earning lots of money

00:44:28.720 | and it only comes with intention.

00:44:33.560 | And so I consider myself first and foremost

00:44:35.960 | a professional father,

00:44:37.160 | and my wife is first and foremost a professional mother.

00:44:40.360 | And we make decisions within that context

00:44:43.240 | that are gonna allow us, I hope, and I pray, and I trust,

00:44:46.240 | and it's my confidence that are gonna allow us

00:44:48.880 | to build the type of family that we wanna have.

00:44:50.960 | But it's not gonna happen if we're stuck

00:44:52.800 | in this US-American, Western mindset

00:44:55.160 | where everything's about the money that we earn

00:44:56.720 | and we're judged based upon the salary.

00:44:58.800 | I reject those things as valid standards of comparison.

00:45:02.480 | - That is incredibly helpful.

00:45:07.120 | Thank you so much.

00:45:08.280 | I find myself torn between what's demanded of me

00:45:12.320 | based on my education and what I feel

00:45:14.100 | that I should be doing.

00:45:15.560 | And I think that I'll be saving this episode

00:45:18.120 | or the replay on my phone to remind me

00:45:20.640 | just what the value of that professional mother is

00:45:23.440 | because it is so crucial.

00:45:26.000 | Yet, whether out of fear, or guilt, or ignorance,

00:45:29.320 | so many people who have made the choice

00:45:30.920 | to also work outside of the home just cut that down.

00:45:34.180 | And it's rare to hear such a strong encouragement

00:45:39.180 | of that importance, so thank you.

00:45:41.360 | - Absolutely.

00:45:43.120 | It's kind of you to give me the platform.

00:45:47.200 | I feel so strongly about it.

00:45:50.440 | And I don't think the answer is,

00:45:52.920 | it's not as cut and dried as to say,

00:45:55.760 | well, here's the rule.

00:45:57.800 | I can't stand the rule of, well,

00:45:59.360 | you can't work outside the home,

00:46:00.640 | or you can't run a home-based business,

00:46:02.120 | or you can't do this.

00:46:03.160 | My way of approaching it is to say,

00:46:06.120 | capture the vision, understand the principles,

00:46:09.120 | and then in your or my specific situation,

00:46:13.120 | what can we do within that?

00:46:15.480 | And so I think there's a way at which you,

00:46:20.280 | in your situation, with your skills,

00:46:22.000 | and your gifts, and your experience,

00:46:24.600 | and your perspective, there's a way,

00:46:27.000 | and there's wisdom.

00:46:28.120 | And this is where one of the most important things

00:46:30.800 | for Christians is to recognize that the wisdom of God

00:46:35.400 | is not found in just simply saying,

00:46:38.160 | okay, you must, thou shalt do this,

00:46:40.000 | or thou shalt not do that.

00:46:41.320 | The entire Christian doctrine,

00:46:44.920 | the entire doctrine of Christianity,

00:46:46.480 | the whole reason Jesus Christ died and rose again was,

00:46:51.480 | and he says it, you read through the Gospels,

00:46:54.680 | Jesus says, I'm going away

00:46:56.120 | so that I can send the Holy Spirit.

00:46:58.560 | And it's the Holy Spirit who gives us wisdom

00:47:01.280 | in our specific situations.

00:47:03.280 | And so I always wrestle with this challenge

00:47:05.600 | on radical personal finance of how do I,

00:47:08.360 | share some ideas that will be helpful

00:47:12.200 | from the perspective of vision and principles

00:47:15.760 | while making sure that individuals are free

00:47:19.160 | in their own situation to respond to that.

00:47:21.960 | So there's a practical way,

00:47:23.280 | with the perspective, again, that I have for me.

00:47:26.120 | Family is my major calling.

00:47:28.760 | It doesn't, finances are not my major calling.

00:47:31.600 | This is my job.

00:47:32.760 | Now, within that situation,

00:47:33.880 | how can I practically build my life

00:47:35.960 | and structure it in such a way

00:47:37.840 | that I'm going to be able to fulfill those things?

00:47:40.280 | It's not based upon,

00:47:41.400 | I have to work more than 40 hours a week

00:47:43.160 | or less than 40 hours a week.

00:47:44.680 | It's not based upon,

00:47:45.520 | I have to do this type of job or another.

00:47:47.200 | It's based upon, in my situation, with my family,

00:47:50.760 | based upon our vision and our vision,

00:47:55.080 | what's the wisdom for us?

00:47:56.800 | And that's what has led systematically over the years

00:47:59.720 | to me making the steps.

00:48:01.200 | That was one of the components of that

00:48:02.640 | was radical personal finance.

00:48:04.160 | Radical personal finance allows me to be more free.

00:48:06.840 | I believe it has higher income potential

00:48:09.600 | when compared to a per hour unit of work input.

00:48:13.080 | And I could see,

00:48:14.760 | at the stage I was at with my children's lives,

00:48:16.880 | and this was another thing

00:48:18.480 | about what is the age of my children.

00:48:20.080 | At the stage I was at with my children,

00:48:22.160 | in their ages when I made the transition,

00:48:25.720 | we felt that was the appropriate stage for me to do it.

00:48:28.520 | And so in that first year,

00:48:30.200 | when I was putting in a lot of hours,

00:48:32.440 | one of the things that was valuable

00:48:34.120 | was I was putting in all those hours from home.

00:48:35.640 | So I was working a lot,

00:48:37.200 | but I was still able to be involved

00:48:38.680 | in the functioning of my family.

00:48:40.200 | We still ate two,

00:48:41.280 | I was home for all the meals,

00:48:43.400 | but we usually eat two meals together as a family,

00:48:46.040 | breakfast and dinner.

00:48:47.320 | I usually skip lunch and keep working, just have a snack.

00:48:49.720 | But we ate two or three meals together every day.

00:48:52.320 | I'm still involved with that daily flow of my family.

00:48:55.200 | I'm not cut off on the road for weeks at a time.

00:48:57.640 | If radical personal finance had required me

00:48:59.480 | to be on the road for weeks at a time, I wouldn't do it.

00:49:02.000 | And in fact, recently,

00:49:02.960 | I thought I wanted to start doing more public speaking.

00:49:06.240 | And I've just come to the decision

00:49:07.800 | that I don't wanna be out of the house.

00:49:09.760 | I don't wanna be out of the house for three days here

00:49:12.960 | and five days here to fly to Cincinnati and give a speech.

00:49:15.440 | I'm not gonna do it.

00:49:16.280 | I don't need to do it.

00:49:17.200 | And it's not worth it because now, especially,

00:49:19.320 | my children are starting to get to that age

00:49:21.360 | where there's that major transition from mommy to daddy.

00:49:24.520 | And that's where my influence is so important.

00:49:28.080 | And there's that transition that happens

00:49:30.280 | with parents in the household.

00:49:32.280 | So all that to say that it's been

00:49:34.960 | a systematic part of our plans.

00:49:37.560 | And if I can't, the rules that I have on the business,

00:49:42.560 | if I can't do it with the amount of time

00:49:44.400 | I'm willing to allocate to it, I'm not gonna do it.

00:49:47.240 | I'm not gonna play this game of I'm gonna work seven hours,

00:49:49.960 | seven days a week and work 100 hours a week

00:49:52.200 | just to somehow make more money,

00:49:53.640 | to look more impressive to people on the internet.

00:49:55.400 | Not a chance.

00:49:57.600 | If I become the most impressive person on the internet

00:50:01.360 | and I become the wealthiest podcaster and financial advisor

00:50:04.800 | and impact millions, and if I don't know my children,

00:50:07.720 | I consider that failure.

00:50:09.540 | So I believe there's wisdom in our specific situations

00:50:12.460 | that you and your husband can look and say,

00:50:14.920 | what's the wisdom at this time in life

00:50:16.880 | based upon our unique skills and abilities

00:50:18.920 | and our situation?

00:50:20.200 | What do we need?

00:50:21.040 | What do we have to have?

00:50:22.100 | There's a bare minimum.

00:50:23.880 | But I tell you, many of the friends and people

00:50:26.040 | that I've counseled, if people have this heart,

00:50:29.000 | and that's always the question,

00:50:30.640 | you gotta have a heart for your children,

00:50:32.040 | have a vision for your family.

00:50:33.140 | But as many people I've counseled,

00:50:34.620 | and big old house, expensive lifestyle,

00:50:39.100 | lots of fancy looking things that look great

00:50:42.140 | in your selfie on Instagram,

00:50:43.800 | nights out with the cocktails at the bar

00:50:47.020 | and fancy brand new cars, there's another way.

00:50:51.800 | And it might involve some decreased consumption.

00:50:54.240 | It might involve downsizing.

00:50:56.160 | It might involve an older car.

00:50:57.880 | It might involve fewer nights out.

00:51:01.200 | But personally, I believe that's the superior path.

00:51:04.800 | - Thank you, thank you.

00:51:09.820 | I think I'll probably, as soon as I'm able

00:51:13.880 | to disentangle myself from my current freelancing,

00:51:16.400 | I'll probably put on any of the ideas that I have

00:51:19.880 | for side hustles.

00:51:21.400 | I'll wait until my boys are old enough

00:51:23.180 | to start helping me with those.

00:51:24.880 | And considering the three year olds

00:51:26.160 | already measuring things with the ruler

00:51:27.720 | and telling me how long things are,

00:51:29.680 | shouldn't be that long.

00:51:30.600 | - Yeah, exactly.

00:51:31.440 | Erica, that's what I'm most excited about as a father.

00:51:34.600 | And I'm just starting to see the glimmers of it.

00:51:37.000 | My kids are two and a half and seven months old.

00:51:40.680 | So my baby, she's crawling around,

00:51:42.840 | and my son, we're just starting to get the glimmers of it.

00:51:47.360 | But what I have been dreaming of

00:51:50.240 | is how can I have my family and my lifestyle

00:51:53.820 | fully integrated?

00:51:54.780 | Historically, this was normal.

00:51:57.100 | In an agrarian society, historically,

00:51:59.780 | the family is an integrated unit

00:52:01.540 | where children and parents are working together.

00:52:05.060 | And you need the old joke

00:52:08.720 | about having all the old farm families

00:52:10.740 | that had 16 kids because, well, we need the free labor.

00:52:13.420 | That was historically the norm.

00:52:16.300 | And so even if you look at families

00:52:19.900 | who weren't agrarian societies,

00:52:21.800 | you were much more likely to have a family workshop.

00:52:27.180 | Dad was a bootmaker,

00:52:29.220 | and so the kids were involved in that.

00:52:31.460 | When I look at the family,

00:52:32.540 | the strength of that as a family perspective

00:52:34.320 | and the benefit for the children,

00:52:35.980 | I see that as vastly superior to the segregated society

00:52:40.220 | that we now live in,

00:52:41.500 | where it's all about measuring everything in economic terms.

00:52:45.500 | The family is disconnected, purposeful or not, whatever.

00:52:48.820 | We, practically speaking,

00:52:50.740 | we're fully disconnected from one another.

00:52:52.620 | There's no integration.

00:52:53.880 | And so what I look at and what I've been choosing

00:52:57.060 | with my business pursuits is how can my kids be active

00:53:01.580 | and involved in my business?

00:53:02.900 | And it's gonna mean one thing at five,

00:53:04.380 | it's gonna mean another thing at 10,

00:53:05.580 | it's gonna mean another thing at 15.

00:53:07.660 | And I don't want to,

00:53:09.680 | I think a danger that parents have to be very careful of

00:53:11.940 | is to try to make their kids fulfill the parents' dreams.

00:53:18.580 | It's very dangerous.

00:53:19.420 | I'm a doctor, or I've always wanted to be a doctor

00:53:21.060 | and attorney, so you've gotta go be a doctor or attorney,

00:53:22.680 | or I am a doctor, so you gotta be a doctor.

00:53:24.660 | I think we should allow our children

00:53:27.220 | to express their own personality, their own skills,

00:53:29.900 | their own interests.

00:53:31.100 | But I'm gonna use the family businesses to,

00:53:35.500 | I'm gonna use those family businesses

00:53:38.380 | to help them to learn,

00:53:40.260 | not in this disconnected academic way

00:53:43.060 | that is commonly taught,

00:53:44.100 | where everything is pieces of knowledge

00:53:45.820 | that are disparate and disconnected.

00:53:47.620 | Rather, life is the point of education.

00:53:51.300 | And so, I was even considering some of the conferences

00:53:54.220 | I was just talking about and thinking with my wife,

00:53:56.780 | like is my son starting to be old enough

00:53:58.440 | to go to a conference with me?

00:53:59.840 | If I have a seven-year-old boy

00:54:01.040 | and any listener sees me at a conference,

00:54:03.780 | that's not always gonna be the case,

00:54:05.100 | but I want my seven-year-old boy,

00:54:07.060 | or I want my seven-year-old daughter

00:54:08.480 | to be with me there at a podcasting convention

00:54:11.580 | or a financial planning conference.

00:54:13.460 | And I want them to be able to be there helping me

00:54:15.260 | and working with me and seeing that.

00:54:17.600 | I want them to be learning on the job.

00:54:19.100 | That's one of the reasons why I've chosen to focus,

00:54:23.100 | as I transition, chosen investment activities on real estate

00:54:28.100 | because on real estate, it's much more accessible

00:54:31.580 | where I can involve my family.

00:54:33.620 | And my wife's skills and abilities

00:54:35.500 | can be extremely well-profiled.

00:54:37.740 | I mean, she's the world's greatest finder of deals.

00:54:41.820 | And so, if we're trying to fix up a rental house or whatnot,

00:54:45.980 | I'm the heavy construction guy.

00:54:47.260 | I can deal with that.

00:54:48.440 | I can put my kids to work helping me with that

00:54:50.440 | where they learn those physical skills that are so valuable.

00:54:53.240 | And meanwhile, my wife is furnishing the house

00:54:55.640 | and decorating it, and those are her skills.

00:54:57.360 | And so now, instead of it being,

00:54:59.740 | well, one of us just goes away and we're totally disconnected

00:55:01.880 | now we're working and building the family wealth.

00:55:03.760 | We're building our family empire together.

00:55:06.000 | And now that practical experience will translate

00:55:09.320 | to as the children age and transition

00:55:12.560 | from dependency to autonomy,

00:55:15.480 | now they'll be equipped with a lot of skills

00:55:19.380 | that are very applicable to real life.

00:55:22.700 | And they'll be able to take that,

00:55:24.800 | filter that broad experience

00:55:26.740 | through their own unique personality

00:55:28.580 | and find the right fit for them

00:55:30.220 | and for their families going forward.

00:55:31.580 | So that's my dream and vision.

00:55:33.940 | And that's what I'm excited about.

00:55:35.460 | I don't talk a lot about those things

00:55:37.100 | 'cause I feel a distinct,

00:55:38.820 | I don't have a lot of evidence to point to.

00:55:42.540 | I can only point to other people.

00:55:43.820 | I can't speak authoritatively and say,

00:55:46.400 | look at my children

00:55:47.240 | 'cause they've achieved these certain things.

00:55:48.760 | But those are just my dreams and my hopes

00:55:50.720 | and my vision for me and my family.

00:55:53.220 | - We actually share similar dreams and visions.

00:55:57.040 | My husband actually brought myself and my oldest son

00:56:00.480 | to a conference when he was seven months old.

00:56:03.000 | And he was actually able to see it.

00:56:04.720 | He didn't enjoy it as much as he would

00:56:06.240 | when he was older.

00:56:07.600 | But everybody there was very excited to see a child there.

00:56:12.080 | And there were a few other children

00:56:13.120 | that were brought along as well.

00:56:14.360 | So it's actually, the professional world

00:56:16.120 | is more open to them than you might realize.

00:56:18.760 | And we're looking to get into real estate

00:56:20.380 | for similar reasons.

00:56:21.600 | His best friend, his family's in real estate.

00:56:24.440 | And you do see that generational transfer

00:56:27.240 | of knowledge and capability and strength

00:56:29.360 | that you have from learning a business

00:56:32.480 | at the side of your parents.

00:56:34.080 | And one that can enable you to really support your family

00:56:37.840 | in all ways, both financially and with your time

00:56:40.840 | and with your energy.

00:56:42.400 | So I have seen some empirical evidence

00:56:45.680 | that that does work well.

00:56:47.160 | And that's why we are aiming the same direction as you are.

00:56:50.800 | - How old are your kids now, Erica?

00:56:52.600 | - The oldest is three and a half

00:56:55.320 | and the youngest is almost two.

00:56:56.880 | - Exciting.

00:56:57.720 | This is that exciting stage.

00:57:00.360 | When they're no longer just crawling around

00:57:02.640 | and you're able to actually interact with them

00:57:04.860 | and train them and teach them.

00:57:06.520 | This is the exciting stage.

00:57:11.600 | - My personal, I mean, I think that,

00:57:16.600 | I mean, the stage that you're in from that,

00:57:19.080 | four or five-ish, I don't know whether it's four,

00:57:21.360 | I don't know whether it's five,

00:57:22.200 | I don't know whether it's seven, who knows.

00:57:23.240 | Some people make big a deal about these ages.

00:57:25.040 | I think the calendar years are much less important

00:57:28.240 | than the child's personal maturity level.

00:57:32.560 | Some children seem to mature so quickly

00:57:34.480 | and some children don't.

00:57:35.320 | And how much of that is environmental versus, I don't know.

00:57:40.160 | But I think that age from say five-ish to 12 or 13-ish,

00:57:45.160 | I mean, those are the years where we transform them

00:57:49.260 | from children into adults.

00:57:51.400 | And I'm convinced it can happen far sooner than 18.

00:57:54.680 | I think there's a, I mean, I got a whole podcast.

00:57:57.320 | That's why I started another podcast

00:58:00.040 | 'cause I didn't wanna mess up

00:58:02.820 | all of the personal finance stuff

00:58:04.340 | with me constantly sharing what I'm learning,

00:58:06.520 | what I'm excited about with parenting.

00:58:08.920 | But I get excited by, I'm excited for you

00:58:12.080 | and the stage that you're in.

00:58:13.120 | And it sounds, I mean, you guys are in a wonderful position

00:58:16.360 | as a family where with your skills and background,

00:58:20.240 | the things you can expose your children to

00:58:22.120 | and your husband's skills and backgrounds,

00:58:24.640 | I'm excited for you guys.

00:58:25.880 | - Thank you very much.

00:58:28.280 | And I think you've helped me figure out

00:58:30.560 | where to stop stretching myself

00:58:31.880 | and where better to apply myself within the family.

00:58:34.160 | So thank you so much, Joshua.

00:58:35.840 | - Ask yourself this question.

00:58:37.780 | If I earn a little bit more money

00:58:39.480 | and yet I wind up with a family life

00:58:46.120 | that doesn't look how I desire it to look,

00:58:49.940 | will that be better?

00:58:52.560 | Or would it be better to have a little bit less money

00:58:55.240 | and have a family life that looks better?

00:58:59.280 | Me, every single time,

00:59:02.080 | and I mean this with every fiber of my being,

00:59:05.000 | if I got to the point where I realized,

00:59:07.860 | and this type of thing occurs with an older child,

00:59:12.140 | but let's say that there's a family listening

00:59:16.300 | who their child is in crisis

00:59:18.260 | and dads and moms are looking at their child

00:59:20.460 | and they're saying, 10 year old, a 12 year old,

00:59:22.380 | a 15 year old, whatever, these ages at which,

00:59:24.740 | I mean, look at the rates of suicide among children.

00:59:27.300 | So I'm talking that level of crisis,

00:59:28.860 | or just even you're recognizing

00:59:30.600 | that family relationships are suffering

00:59:32.220 | and there's not that same intimate interaction,

00:59:35.980 | that same heart to heart sharing that once was.

00:59:39.220 | I'd cash out every dollar in retirement

00:59:41.340 | and spend every bit of it restoring my child

00:59:46.260 | and doing everything I can for the relationship.

00:59:49.620 | And I believe every listener would too.

00:59:51.740 | It's just that we only see that when a child gets cancer.

00:59:56.220 | We totally know when the child gets cancer

00:59:58.220 | and all of a sudden now there's a beautiful young girl,

01:00:00.640 | a beautiful young boy that's now bald and sickly,

01:00:03.340 | and we understand, well, mom quit, dad quit,

01:00:06.140 | and now they're spending every dime

01:00:09.140 | on the health of their child.

01:00:10.620 | Well, those are tough situations.

01:00:14.020 | The thing about cancer, it's easy to see physically,

01:00:16.480 | but I say, are we doing the same thing

01:00:18.520 | with the cancer that is not so physical?

01:00:21.220 | Are we doing the same thing with relationships?

01:00:22.860 | Are we doing the same thing with the disconnectedness?

01:00:25.180 | And if more parents would prioritize that family life,

01:00:28.860 | which is something that is eternal,

01:00:31.200 | as compared to, not eternal in the sense

01:00:33.520 | of family relationships, but in the sense

01:00:35.520 | that family relationships are for this lifetime only,

01:00:38.240 | but from the perspective that the child's soul,

01:00:43.240 | that's an eternal good.

01:00:45.560 | And it's also a way that you can impact

01:00:47.880 | that goes far beyond anything that one person can do.

01:00:50.860 | It's a leveraging ability.

01:00:52.280 | If we saw the cancer that can happen that's not physical,

01:00:58.540 | why should we not apply the same focus to it?

01:01:03.140 | Because the cancer that's physical, it's one thing,

01:01:07.180 | but there are relatively few children

01:01:10.100 | who are dying of cancer, and yet how many children

01:01:13.820 | are dying of lack of love, lack of involvement,

01:01:16.780 | lack of guidance, and they're being raised by,

01:01:20.520 | well, anyway, you get the point.

01:01:23.280 | So I think that if ever there's a question

01:01:25.740 | between finance and family, I'm always gonna elevate family

01:01:30.040 | above finance, even if it's other people don't understand,

01:01:33.660 | because the finance is simple.

01:01:34.940 | It's solvable, and it's doable.

01:01:36.660 | So those would be my answers.

01:01:37.920 | Erica, I thank you for calling in.

01:01:39.760 | It's an honor to have your questions.

01:01:40.940 | I hope that I've carefully kept to,

01:01:44.500 | this stuff exposes me personally, and I'll tell you,

01:01:49.140 | many listeners might think I like to talk

01:01:51.200 | about controversial stuff, but it's really not.

01:01:53.060 | It's tough to do it, so I just ask

01:01:55.080 | that hopefully listeners would hear my heart

01:01:58.100 | and be willing to consider things

01:02:00.500 | without attacking me personally.

01:02:02.580 | So Erica, thank you for calling in

01:02:04.140 | and asking your question, and I wish you guys

01:02:06.420 | total blessings in every area.

01:02:09.700 | - Thank you.

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