RPF0282-Talaat_and_Tai_Interview
00:00:00.000 | You know, there are a lot of great things about being married, but you know what one
00:00:03.800 | of the best things about being married is?
00:00:07.280 | Money!
00:00:08.720 | After all, the day you get married, it just becomes easy.
00:00:14.640 | Life is so easy when you get to manage money with another person.
00:00:20.480 | It's just remarkable.
00:00:22.080 | Everything flows smoothly.
00:00:24.400 | You always agree on everything.
00:00:26.840 | Wait, that's not your experience?
00:00:30.960 | Oh, bummer.
00:00:34.960 | Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, radicals.
00:00:43.120 | Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast.
00:00:57.640 | My name is Joshua Sheets and today we're here to talk about money and marriage.
00:01:02.480 | The good thing is I'm not alone.
00:01:04.440 | I've got Talit and Ty from His and Hers Money.
00:01:08.160 | They're here to share a little bit of their experience, a little bit of their wisdom,
00:01:11.320 | and hopes that we can all learn together.
00:01:22.120 | If your experience with money and marriage is not what I described there in my little
00:01:28.000 | intro, don't worry.
00:01:29.000 | I don't think it's anybody's experience in the world.
00:01:32.800 | And so this topic is one of those that I think could have a bigger impact on our life than
00:01:37.320 | just about anything else.
00:01:38.800 | This is one of those topics that affects the day-to-day life.
00:01:43.200 | Figuring out how to rebalance your 401(k), that is easy.
00:01:46.480 | You sit down one time, you figure out an asset allocation plan, you punch in some order tickets
00:01:51.520 | on your mutual funds and boom, you're done.
00:01:55.560 | Figuring out how much to spend on the budget category that you disagree on, that's a little
00:02:02.960 | tougher.
00:02:03.960 | And so today I've got Talit and Ty from His and Hers Money on to talk with me.
00:02:08.040 | I reached out to them and I was able to connect with them at FinCon 2015 up in Charlotte,
00:02:13.480 | North Carolina in September 2015.
00:02:16.120 | So that's when this interview was recorded.
00:02:17.760 | I hadn't gotten around to playing it for you guys for a while, but I'm thrilled to bring
00:02:21.240 | it to you.
00:02:22.240 | It's a good interview and I think you're going to enjoy it.
00:02:23.600 | Talit and Ty have a cool story and they run a website called His and Hers Money.
00:02:27.320 | So they talk about this stuff each and every day and we had an enjoyable conversation together
00:02:32.600 | and I think they're going to find a lot of value in it.
00:02:34.680 | Before I play the interview for you, we're going to do sponsors up front.
00:02:37.120 | There are two major things that might help you guys to get on the same page with money.
00:02:44.680 | And that's why I've chosen these two sponsors to play on today's show for you.
00:02:49.360 | And here are the two things.
00:02:50.920 | Number one, get clear on big picture goals.
00:02:56.480 | And number two, have a system of accurate, proactive money management.
00:03:04.380 | Those two things can bring a tremendous amount of peace to a relationship.
00:03:09.520 | If you're clear on where you're going, big picture long term, that gives you the direction,
00:03:16.480 | that gives you the general orientation.
00:03:19.080 | And then if you put a plan in place that accounts for the day to day activity, you can make
00:03:25.840 | major progress.
00:03:26.840 | There's my tip.
00:03:27.840 | If you need to turn off after that, that's all you need.
00:03:29.640 | Well, suggestions on ways to do it.
00:03:31.320 | Number one, sponsor of the day number one is Paladin, a financial advisor registry service.
00:03:36.980 | Sit down with a good financial advisor and spend some time talking about your long term
00:03:41.420 | goals and figure out where you are with regard to your progress on those goals.
00:03:46.900 | The best way that I know of for you to sit down and find and start your search for good
00:03:50.740 | financial advisors is to use the Paladin registry.
00:03:53.780 | Paladin is a service that goes out and they bring advisors together.
00:03:57.500 | They research those advisors.
00:03:59.140 | Make sure they're not crooks and scoundrels.
00:04:01.680 | They try to weed out the bad ones and only represent the good ones.
00:04:04.960 | And what you can do is go to radicalpersonalfinance.com/paladin, P-A-L-A-D-I-N, Paladin.
00:04:11.280 | Go to radicalpersonalfinance.com/paladin.
00:04:14.360 | Put your info in there and they will refer you to a couple of financial advisors.
00:04:18.280 | Start your search there.
00:04:19.360 | You don't have to hire them.
00:04:20.640 | I don't have any financial interest in whether you hire them or not, but at least start your
00:04:24.800 | search there and interview them first in hopes they can help you with that long term goals.
00:04:30.480 | Sponsor number two is YNAB.
00:04:32.000 | You Need a Budget, the budgeting software.
00:04:34.600 | Brand new version of the software out.
00:04:38.040 | I've gotten some mixed feedback on it.
00:04:39.960 | A couple of people have loved it.
00:04:41.400 | A couple of people hated it.
00:04:42.480 | I haven't yet delved into it deeply enough to give you a review, but it is on my to-do
00:04:47.640 | list and that will be coming soon and I'll let you know what I think about it.
00:04:50.520 | I am confident that Jesse and his team, they've been doing this a while and I'm confident
00:04:54.080 | that for the most part it's going to be great.
00:04:56.000 | They did change a few features, so I'll update you on those features and let you know.
00:05:00.440 | But you can try it for free, 30-day trial.
00:05:02.800 | If you haven't done that, go to radicalpersonalfinance.com/YNAB, Y-N-A-B.
00:05:07.440 | It's an acronym for You Need a Budget, radicalpersonalfinance.com/YNAB.
00:05:11.660 | Do those two things and I believe that your relationship together will be improved, not
00:05:19.240 | necessarily because of what you do, but because you're building communication around what
00:05:26.440 | you're doing.
00:05:28.060 | That communication leads to a sharing of the heart, a sharing of vision and purpose, and
00:05:32.360 | that leads to making major progress in how you can relate to another person with regard
00:05:38.680 | to money.
00:05:39.680 | Let's hear what Talent and Ty had to say.
00:05:43.800 | Talent and Ty, welcome to Radical Personal Finance.
00:05:46.440 | Hi.
00:05:47.440 | Hey, Josh.
00:05:48.440 | I'm so happy to be here.
00:05:49.440 | I'm a big fan of the show.
00:05:50.440 | Thank you.
00:05:51.440 | Absolutely.
00:05:52.440 | So we're going to talk about his and her money, which ought to be fun because, what, is there
00:05:56.280 | any more challenging and more consistent challenge that people face with their money other than
00:06:01.800 | learning how to work with a loved one and work together?
00:06:04.880 | How did you guys get started in this money advice space?
00:06:08.400 | Well, we've been doing this for a while just in person, locally.
00:06:13.560 | People are always asking us questions about finances because we had such a unique story.
00:06:19.400 | I'm a natural spender.
00:06:20.840 | My wife's a natural saver.
00:06:23.000 | I had a bunch of debt when we got married.
00:06:25.120 | She had never had any debt.
00:06:26.800 | I had a terrible credit score.
00:06:27.800 | How's that for a challenging relationship to integrate?
00:06:30.720 | Yeah, because we were just polar opposites.
00:06:34.040 | And so when we got together and got married, we had to learn a lot.
00:06:38.600 | We had to compromise a lot.
00:06:39.920 | And a lot of the lessons that we've learned and people see the outcome and see that we've
00:06:45.200 | figured a lot of things out.
00:06:46.440 | And so people would always be asking us questions and advice locally.
00:06:49.960 | So we decided that maybe it'd be a good idea to take this message online because we could
00:06:55.320 | probably help more people than we are right now.
00:06:58.280 | How long have you been married?
00:07:00.200 | Almost 10 years.
00:07:01.200 | This is coming June.
00:07:02.200 | Okay.
00:07:03.200 | So what was the process like in the beginning?
00:07:06.920 | What was it like and then how did it change over time?
00:07:09.920 | Yes.
00:07:10.920 | So it started just with a lot of tears and Kleenex and yelling and arguing.
00:07:18.800 | But no, seriously, it just was a lot of trial and error.
00:07:21.760 | So again, we're completely different.
00:07:24.200 | And so we had to try things a certain way.
00:07:29.480 | If it worked, we kept it.
00:07:30.880 | If it didn't work, we figured it out and we remixed it and tried something different.
00:07:35.400 | The problem I think a lot of times when it comes to couples is that they try something
00:07:39.720 | and it didn't work and then they just drift apart.
00:07:42.540 | They become isolated.
00:07:43.800 | They don't try to work through or try to find a different alternative.
00:07:47.720 | And that's why finances is one of the number one reasons that marriages fall apart because
00:07:53.320 | they didn't figure out a way to work it out.
00:07:55.440 | So you came together with a big disparity in both habits, but also in your financial
00:07:59.800 | situation.
00:08:00.800 | Completely.
00:08:01.800 | Did you integrate your finances together?
00:08:03.960 | Yes.
00:08:04.960 | So I must mention prior to us getting married, everything pretty much hit the fan.
00:08:11.040 | My husband, as he said, he was the one with debt.
00:08:13.280 | I had no debt.
00:08:14.280 | Bad credit, great credit.
00:08:16.600 | And so I thought that I was entering into marriage where my husband didn't have at least
00:08:21.440 | $30,000 worth of debt.
00:08:23.040 | When we finally discovered the debt, as he said, it was a lot of trial and error, a lot
00:08:28.120 | of communication.
00:08:30.400 | I was afraid.
00:08:31.400 | I'm not going to lie.
00:08:32.400 | I was absolutely afraid because I was not used to that.
00:08:34.880 | So when we got married, I knew that his debt was going to then become my debt because yes,
00:08:39.640 | we did integrate our finances and we came up with a plan to get out of debt as quickly
00:08:44.920 | as possible.
00:08:45.920 | From day one, we decided that it wasn't going to be any separation.
00:08:51.280 | Even though we were different, we were both willing to put in the work.
00:08:54.160 | And so from day one, we integrated everything.
00:08:56.320 | I mean, Ty took a big risk because of the mistakes that I was making.
00:09:00.760 | But I think that she saw that my behavior was different.
00:09:05.040 | Although I still had repercussions from the past mistakes that I made.
00:09:09.240 | So the debt was still there, but I was thinking differently and I was behaving differently.
00:09:14.160 | And so that made her realize that, you know, let's do this together.
00:09:17.880 | Let's work this out as a team because that's what marriage is.
00:09:20.440 | So you talk about couples money and I'm getting the sense that would your advice be to all
00:09:26.040 | couples that they should integrate their finances together?
00:09:28.760 | That is our, that's our position.
00:09:30.440 | That's our standpoint.
00:09:31.520 | We know that not everybody agrees with us, but anytime anybody asks us, yes, we believe
00:09:35.440 | that when the two come together, they are one and that includes their finances.
00:09:40.440 | And why, why would you marry somebody that you don't believe in that you can operate
00:09:45.280 | and get through the good and the bad together?
00:09:47.680 | Because that's marriage is one long process of both of you all becoming better.
00:09:52.960 | And so everything's not going to be set up perfectly from day one.
00:09:56.280 | It won't be set up perfectly from day 1000.
00:10:00.120 | But the point is it's a gradual process and if you don't start off thinking operating
00:10:06.800 | as a team, it's going to be much harder to do it later.
00:10:10.080 | You know, and there are also exceptions to the rule.
00:10:12.160 | Of course, you know, we're not saying someone who may have a spouse that has a gambling
00:10:16.880 | addiction problem or they may be in an abusive relationship.
00:10:21.240 | Of course you, you should have some type of money that's separate, you know, if, because
00:10:26.200 | you have to plan for the future.
00:10:27.400 | You know, I actually had a client that I dealt with.
00:10:30.640 | She had to physically set money aside that her spouse did not know about because he gambled
00:10:35.440 | all of their retirement away.
00:10:37.400 | So in that case, yes, you know, but the average everyday couple, you know, who's not going
00:10:42.320 | through those type of issues or situations we do believe in combining.
00:10:46.960 | So when you were in those difficult early years, what were some of the things that you
00:10:51.400 | started to do that started to make a difference?
00:10:55.000 | I think, I think the first, before we say what made a difference, we made a huge mistake
00:11:01.520 | right out the gate and learning from that mistake, the lessons that came out of that
00:11:06.280 | huge mistake is what propelled us forward.
00:11:08.400 | So on the surface, it sounded, what we did sounded like a good idea.
00:11:12.340 | So like we said, I was terrible with money.
00:11:15.040 | Ty was great with money.
00:11:16.040 | She had a finance degree.
00:11:17.040 | She was working in the finance industry.
00:11:19.360 | And so our idea was, okay, Ty, you handle the money.
00:11:22.040 | You just let me know how things go, right, and what I should do.
00:11:25.320 | And so on the surface, it sounded like a good idea, but the problem was we weren't operating
00:11:29.440 | as a team.
00:11:31.000 | People make the mistake when they hear the word team, especially in marriage, they think
00:11:34.240 | that things should be 50/50, which they hardly ever are.
00:11:37.960 | But another mistake people make is that when you're attempting to operate as a team, they'll
00:11:43.360 | do something a hundred to zero.
00:11:45.400 | So that's what we were.
00:11:46.480 | She was doing a hundred percent of the budgeting and organizing the finance and I was doing
00:11:50.040 | zero.
00:11:51.040 | I was doing the red line saying, okay, so what do I have to operate with?
00:11:54.320 | And so what happened was over time, we begin to build up, both of us, resentment within
00:11:58.140 | each other because of this situation that we agreed to at first, but we were finding
00:12:03.500 | that we were resenting the process because she was feeling unappreciated because she
00:12:08.880 | was doing all this hard work.
00:12:10.680 | She was calculating, organizing, budgeting, making sure that we weren't going into the
00:12:14.560 | red and me, I was building up resentment because I felt I knew how much I made.
00:12:19.360 | I knew what my salary was and then I knew what she was saying.
00:12:22.040 | Well, this is what you have to spend for the month.
00:12:24.240 | And I'm like, wait a minute, this does not add up.
00:12:27.560 | And so I was feeling like I was a child being handed an allowance and we weren't communicating
00:12:32.720 | our resentment.
00:12:34.080 | And so it continued to grow and fester and we just had to sit down and discuss the resentment
00:12:41.120 | that was in it.
00:12:42.120 | It took a while to get there.
00:12:43.120 | We were just silent, quiet, and we were growing frustrated internally.
00:12:47.280 | And so once we laid all the cards out on the table, like, I don't like this set up because
00:12:52.480 | of this and I don't like this set up because of this, we were able to realize we weren't
00:12:55.600 | operating as a team.
00:12:57.400 | We were operating as Ty was doing all the work and I was just sitting back.
00:13:01.200 | And so that's just not the way to operate.
00:13:03.640 | What was your perspective, Ty?
00:13:05.600 | Same, totally agree.
00:13:06.920 | I thought he was a big baby, you know, and I thought that he did not appreciate what
00:13:11.640 | I was doing.
00:13:12.640 | I was making a lot of sacrifices and I did not quite feel that he was doing the same.
00:13:16.760 | I felt like he wasn't making sacrifices.
00:13:18.280 | I'm like, okay, if we want to reach our certain goals that we both say, then we're going to
00:13:23.680 | have to spend XYZ.
00:13:25.560 | And he wanted to spend ABC.
00:13:27.040 | You know, and yeah, it was very frustrating.
00:13:30.020 | And so what we learned was that teamwork means that both parties have a part to play.
00:13:35.080 | It may not be 50/50, but it's not 100 to zero either.
00:13:39.040 | So we always give the illustration of, we're from Chicago.
00:13:42.660 | So in the nineties, we were all about the Chicago Bulls and everybody knows Michael
00:13:46.400 | Jordan, but they don't know the starting point guard.
00:13:48.520 | So it was BJ Armstrong for those first few.
00:13:50.920 | And I say the name BJ Armstrong and nobody knows who in the world I'm talking about,
00:13:55.120 | but he was the opposite guard to Michael Jordan on some of those championship teams.
00:14:01.640 | And what happened was they were on the same team, right?
00:14:05.440 | They didn't have the same amount of responsibility, but they both had responsibilities on the
00:14:10.320 | team.
00:14:11.320 | So when teams were game planning to play the Chicago Bulls, it's not like they were game
00:14:15.320 | planning 50% Jordan and 50% BJ Armstrong.
00:14:18.920 | No, it was overwhelmingly game planning for Michael Jordan, but BJ Armstrong played his
00:14:25.080 | part, right?
00:14:26.140 | He was the point guard on the team.
00:14:27.560 | And so he had a role as a point guard.
00:14:29.440 | Mike had a role as the two guard.
00:14:31.000 | And because they both played their roles and they both played their roles well, they became
00:14:35.840 | champions.
00:14:36.840 | And so you both parties, husband and wife have to be involved in the game.
00:14:42.040 | Even if it's 80-20, 70-30, you have to play to your strengths and you both have to play.
00:14:47.920 | Did you get advice or did you figure it out the hard way?
00:14:51.140 | We started to do a lot of research on our own.
00:14:53.940 | We would email each other financial articles.
00:14:57.520 | We would go to sites and read their posts.
00:15:00.840 | We would read books.
00:15:02.120 | We started to gain the knowledge on our own in order to win it.
00:15:06.240 | Yeah, we started to self-educate and do it together.
00:15:09.120 | So I would come across an article or we would watch the Dave Ramsey show, the Orman show
00:15:15.360 | and discuss what was being talked about on there.
00:15:17.640 | And they, what do you think about that?
00:15:18.880 | What do you think about that?
00:15:19.880 | So at the same time, we're both growing together.
00:15:23.000 | Practically, how do you actually go about on a practical basis starting to work together?
00:15:28.920 | Do both people, do you have budget meetings?
00:15:31.360 | Do you, you know, both people have a checkbook register?
00:15:34.120 | How does it work?
00:15:35.120 | Well, now almost 10 years later in our marriage, I am still the one physically putting the
00:15:40.720 | budget together.
00:15:41.720 | However, we sit down together and we come up with the numbers, you know, so I'm the
00:15:46.840 | one with the checkbook, you know, writing the check, paying the bills because he still
00:15:51.720 | works outside of the home right now.
00:15:53.480 | So it makes sense for me to do it.
00:15:55.640 | But he's involved in every purchase decision.
00:15:58.400 | He's involved in every line category in our budget.
00:16:01.320 | Yeah, so she'll set it up and then we'll both sit down.
00:16:04.320 | We'll both look at it.
00:16:05.320 | We'll both talk about it.
00:16:06.320 | We'll both discuss it and we'll both come up with the final game plan for the month.
00:16:10.360 | So we sit down before the month begins and do our budget.
00:16:13.360 | And periodically sometimes things have come up where we didn't necessarily budget for
00:16:17.680 | it, we missed or we forgot.
00:16:19.080 | So we sit down together again and say, okay, what do we need to move around and how should
00:16:22.440 | we attack this?
00:16:23.760 | And we talk about goals as far as saving up for bigger purchases.
00:16:28.320 | We're always in discussion.
00:16:29.840 | But again, it's not 50/50.
00:16:31.600 | We both play to our strengths though.
00:16:33.200 | Right.
00:16:34.200 | So what's your go-to budget?
00:16:35.200 | What's your go-to budget?
00:16:36.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:37.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:38.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:39.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:40.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:41.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:42.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:43.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:44.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:45.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:46.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:47.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:48.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:49.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:50.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:51.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:16:52.200 | And then what's your go-to budget?
00:17:19.680 | What advice do you have for couples who have very different incomes?
00:17:26.640 | One is much higher than the other.
00:17:27.920 | Have you worked with that?
00:17:28.920 | With your site?
00:17:29.920 | Do you have any insight that could be helpful for those people?
00:17:32.280 | Absolutely.
00:17:33.280 | We lived it.
00:17:34.280 | Yeah.
00:17:35.280 | Well, in the beginning of our marriage, I was the one making a higher salary than my
00:17:38.880 | husband, but I never put him down.
00:17:41.840 | It was our money.
00:17:43.920 | You know, I never said, "Well, I'm making this.
00:17:47.680 | You're making that."
00:17:48.680 | So, I never felt like I had more power, you know, because from day one, we were one in
00:17:53.840 | our salary, right?
00:17:54.840 | Yeah.
00:17:55.840 | And I would say that things can change because guess what?
00:17:58.520 | Ty decided she wanted to come home, and now I'm the one with the salary.
00:18:02.480 | Right.
00:18:03.480 | So, now imagine if in the beginning of our marriage, my wife was making me feel bad because
00:18:09.760 | she earned more than I did.
00:18:11.740 | How would I be treating her right now?
00:18:13.240 | I'd be treating her the same way.
00:18:15.440 | And because my wife didn't do that, because it was about us from the beginning, it's still
00:18:20.320 | about us now.
00:18:21.480 | So, our advice to couples is that come together.
00:18:26.440 | Realize again that you all are a team.
00:18:28.800 | Who cares who makes what?
00:18:31.180 | Not I make this and you make that.
00:18:33.800 | We make this amount.
00:18:35.600 | How are we going to game plan for this amount?
00:18:38.600 | What are our dreams?
00:18:40.300 | What are our goals?
00:18:41.440 | What are our ambitions?
00:18:42.680 | What do we want to do with our life?
00:18:44.160 | It's always got to be about us, we, and our.
00:18:46.520 | Never about you and I.
00:18:49.600 | I personally think that this idea of thinking together versus thinking separately is a major
00:18:58.640 | influence to the breakdown of families in our culture.
00:19:03.040 | The family-oriented culture of the past seems to be continually under attack, seems to be
00:19:08.680 | continually falling apart.
00:19:11.840 | And in my mind, one of the most important reasons to connect money is because it's a
00:19:17.640 | symbol of connecting life.
00:19:19.800 | The traditional marriage vows say, you know, we're together for life, for better or for
00:19:25.200 | worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health.
00:19:28.840 | And in my mind, money is the easy one to put together because that's what can happen right
00:19:35.000 | at the beginning.
00:19:36.640 | And it's hard for me to see how, now I know there are exceptions, it's hard for me to
00:19:41.800 | see how, if your relationship isn't together on money, which is a reflection of your goals,
00:19:48.560 | then how is it going to be together on how you spend your time?
00:19:51.520 | And how is it going to be together, you know, when I'm 93 years old and I need a bedpan
00:19:56.920 | and a diaper and I'm sick and my wife is caring for me or vice versa.
00:20:03.360 | If the relationship starts and it's about me and we're together out of convenience,
00:20:07.280 | I don't see how it continues through the difficult times of sickness and in health.
00:20:11.840 | Do you have any insight or perspective on that from your experience?
00:20:15.400 | Yeah, you got to ask yourself, is your marriage a covenant or is it a contract?
00:20:19.880 | Too many marriages are operating right now as business partnerships instead of covenantal
00:20:25.040 | partners.
00:20:26.080 | A covenant is a union.
00:20:28.120 | There is no separation in any aspect of it.
00:20:31.380 | If you're in a covenant, everything you do is about the whole.
00:20:34.880 | Whereas business partners, business contracts, leave, have out clauses, have exit strategies,
00:20:42.560 | have isolation built within them.
00:20:45.160 | And too many people, like you said, are operating under marriage contracts instead of marriage
00:20:50.680 | covenants.
00:20:51.680 | And we need to be striving to that covenantal relationship that, like you just talked about,
00:20:56.760 | for better than for worse, because guess what?
00:21:00.120 | You're going to experience both.
00:21:01.400 | And if you don't have covenant, those worst moments can tear you apart.
00:21:05.820 | But if you do have covenant, those worst moments can drive you closer together.
00:21:09.760 | It's my experience.
00:21:11.520 | My wife and I have been married for a little over three and a half years now, something
00:21:16.640 | like that.
00:21:17.640 | And just in my experience, marriage is tough.
00:21:24.960 | And that's why it's very much driven by a philosophical and ethical and moral framework,
00:21:30.160 | which is something that we debate about on an ongoing basis in our society.
00:21:35.360 | But at least our experience has been that marriage is so challenging that without the
00:21:39.280 | framework of commitment and no exit point, it's not possible for it to continue.
00:21:46.520 | My wife and I, we didn't come from a perspective of being deeply in debt.
00:21:51.660 | We didn't come from the perspective of a dramatic difference.
00:21:55.040 | But even for us, actually, even though I talk about money and whatnot, we did have a major
00:21:59.960 | challenge in that prior to our marriage, I had made some stupid business decisions and
00:22:06.080 | basically hadn't watched my expenses of my business carefully enough.
00:22:09.920 | I'd hired a bunch of staff and spent all my money.
00:22:13.440 | And so by the time I got through with that expensive phase of my business, where I'd
00:22:17.760 | let my business expenses grow too high without the corresponding revenue, and then by the
00:22:21.720 | time I'd gotten through my personal experiences, and then by the time I had worked through
00:22:26.480 | just even the expenses of marriage, engagement ring, weddings, things like that, honeymoons,
00:22:32.760 | etc., I came to a perspective where coming into marriage, I didn't have a big, cushy
00:22:37.360 | savings account, which is really hard because I always imagined myself that I was going
00:22:40.920 | to be the rich guy coming into marriage.
00:22:42.120 | I'm going to come in with hundreds of thousands of dollars of savings.
00:22:44.840 | And it was really humbling, really, really humbling to be Josh Rasheed's Mr. Financial
00:22:49.120 | Advisor.
00:22:50.120 | And I married my wife, who never made a lot of money, but she was always so careful and
00:22:53.640 | so frugal that she had a lot of money saved, and I had spent all of mine investing in my
00:22:58.680 | business.
00:23:00.160 | And it's tough because it created in our relationship, it created challenges that for years we continued
00:23:08.560 | to work at.
00:23:09.840 | And I can't see how if our relationship were built upon love, if our relationship were
00:23:17.180 | built upon good feelings for each other, if our relationship were built upon any of those
00:23:21.520 | things, I can't see how it would survive.
00:23:25.040 | For us, it wasn't built on that.
00:23:26.720 | It was built upon a commitment.
00:23:29.720 | You can use the word covenant.
00:23:31.300 | It was built upon, you know, I was told, I said, "Honey, if you ever leave me, I'm going
00:23:34.800 | with you, so don't even bother trying."
00:23:36.400 | And so then on that basis, then everything else flows and the love comes out of that,
00:23:43.680 | the good feelings come out of that, and the ability to work through things comes out of
00:23:48.320 | that because you've got no other choice.
00:23:51.800 | And so I always struggle with giving financial advice to couples because people come at their
00:23:55.960 | relationships from such a dramatically different perspective.
00:23:58.560 | It's always a real challenge for me to figure out, well, do I just share my perspective
00:24:03.480 | and tell you how I view the world?
00:24:04.760 | Do I try to look at the world through your lens?
00:24:07.960 | Money exposes the strengths or flaws of every relationship.
00:24:12.680 | But that's the point of marriage.
00:24:14.840 | It's to make you better.
00:24:16.600 | And so it would have been pointless for you to marry somebody just like you because you
00:24:20.720 | would have never got better.
00:24:21.720 | You would have got worse.
00:24:22.920 | And so what happens is we're married to people who are our opposites because they're going
00:24:28.080 | to make you better and you're going to make them better.
00:24:31.160 | And what has to happen, no matter what the two backgrounds are, is you got to go through
00:24:36.120 | the process of making each other better.
00:24:37.880 | You got to have those discussions.
00:24:39.840 | We started with that.
00:24:40.840 | You guys didn't start with any debt, but there were still conversations that needed to be
00:24:43.960 | had.
00:24:44.960 | The lines of communication needed to be open.
00:24:46.480 | You needed to dream together.
00:24:48.040 | You need to make a plan together how you're going to move forward.
00:24:51.120 | Now the wedding day is gone.
00:24:52.640 | Honeymoon's over.
00:24:53.640 | Okay, here's day one.
00:24:54.640 | What is our life going to look like?
00:24:56.920 | So it doesn't matter where you start.
00:24:58.820 | What matters is that you both put in the work and that you're willing to come together with
00:25:02.680 | your differences, with your flaws and make each other better.
00:25:07.280 | I would disagree with you on one thing.
00:25:08.480 | It doesn't start on day one because day one, you're still fine.
00:25:11.040 | You're still right.
00:25:12.040 | Right.
00:25:13.040 | Right.
00:25:14.040 | I remember when I was like 37, right before the first year where all of a sudden you start
00:25:19.440 | to say, Oh, okay.
00:25:20.960 | So the reality of life is that I'm living with somebody.
00:25:23.840 | Yeah, you're right.
00:25:24.840 | They have idiosyncrasies.
00:25:25.840 | I got to learn to deal with.
00:25:28.440 | Yeah, you're right about that.
00:25:29.760 | So practically, let me ask you, one spouse is listening to this and I don't know whether
00:25:36.760 | it's husband or wife, but one spouse is listening to this and they're thinking, my relationship
00:25:43.440 | is just struggling and they want to start.
00:25:46.720 | What's the first step?
00:25:47.720 | What do they go home and do?
00:25:50.440 | Have a conversation with your spouse, I would say.
00:25:54.160 | For us, it was prayer first.
00:25:57.560 | I had to go to God.
00:25:58.560 | We are Christians.
00:25:59.560 | And so I had to go to God to pray about my husband first before I actually started to
00:26:04.440 | communicate with him and have the talk and discussion.
00:26:07.840 | And just be honest, be transparent.
00:26:11.120 | Don't be judgmental.
00:26:13.600 | When you go to your spouse, don't point the finger at them and find out or point out their
00:26:19.520 | failures or their flaws.
00:26:21.960 | I would first start the conversation just by saying, I know that I have not been 100%
00:26:27.600 | with whatever it is.
00:26:29.720 | And then just ask for them just to listen and then wait for a response.
00:26:34.240 | Along those lines, while you're trying to get to that point, even maybe leading up to
00:26:38.640 | that conversation, maybe you can't do it right here today wouldn't be a good time for you
00:26:43.200 | to talk to them.
00:26:44.880 | Also ask and look and self-evaluate.
00:26:48.400 | What are some ways that I can get better?
00:26:50.400 | What are some areas that I need to grow in?
00:26:53.080 | Because what happens is if you can get two spouses that are both working on themselves,
00:26:57.960 | the marriage as a whole gets better.
00:27:00.360 | And so as you're working on yourself, you'll probably come to realize how you can approach
00:27:05.760 | your spouse better or what are some things that you can do to be the example.
00:27:10.080 | Maybe you're going to have to be the change that you want to see first.
00:27:14.400 | And that change could lead to a conversation like, well, why are you doing that?
00:27:19.840 | What's the point?
00:27:20.840 | Where are you trying to get to?
00:27:21.840 | And boom, there's an opportunity for an initial conversation just to get the ball rolling.
00:27:26.480 | Don't expect an overnight fix because that's not, again, that's not what marriage is.
00:27:32.820 | Marriage is a process.
00:27:34.440 | And so what trials and tribulations do is it builds character, it builds perseverance.
00:27:39.360 | And so it comes again to make you better and embrace the process because again, it's a
00:27:46.240 | process.
00:27:47.360 | Don't just have one conversation like, oh, he didn't change.
00:27:50.040 | She didn't change.
00:27:51.040 | I give up.
00:27:52.280 | That's not marriage.
00:27:53.320 | It's a process.
00:27:54.320 | And so it's going to take a lifetime of conversations.
00:27:57.680 | Ty and I still have conversations.
00:27:59.240 | We still don't see eye to eye on some things just because we're naturally wired financially
00:28:03.360 | different.
00:28:04.360 | It still takes conversations and it still takes compromise 10 years later.
00:28:08.240 | You know what I mean?
00:28:09.240 | It's all, that's what marriage is, one big compromise.
00:28:11.120 | And so you're going to have to be willing to be patient and talk things through consistently
00:28:15.660 | and on a regular basis.
00:28:17.400 | I would add to that also, in addition to those things in the short term, having a united
00:28:23.000 | vision and spending the time to understand how to build a vision that includes all of
00:28:30.440 | the things that are important to each party.
00:28:32.600 | It does my relationship with my wife no good if I just say, well, this is what I want to
00:28:36.560 | do and I'm going to go for it.
00:28:38.840 | It also does no good if I just say, well, honey, what do you want to do?
00:28:42.440 | Okay, let's just go for that.
00:28:44.280 | This concept of the wishy-washy husband, honey, yes.
00:28:49.480 | I'll tell you one joke I can't stand is when people make the joke about, well, yes, dear,
00:28:54.280 | being the appropriate response in all situations and all circumstances for a husband.
00:29:00.120 | It's nonsense.
00:29:01.700 | It's not yes, dear.
00:29:02.960 | It's let's understand together what's important.
00:29:05.760 | And my job is to make sure that our vision as a family is the appropriate vision that
00:29:11.920 | satisfies the needs and desires of everyone in it.
00:29:15.280 | And then building that long-term united vision and then orienting the money in line with
00:29:20.360 | that and making sure that the needs of each spouse are cared for and are united in that.
00:29:27.640 | And so, you know, it's, I've had in my relationship with my wife, we've worked hard at this in
00:29:32.640 | the sense that I think a lot about vision.
00:29:34.920 | I think a lot about long-term.
00:29:36.160 | I'm obsessed with here are the goals.
00:29:38.760 | Here's the next step.
00:29:39.760 | Here's the plan.
00:29:40.760 | Here's where we're going to go.
00:29:41.760 | Here are these types of things.
00:29:42.760 | My wife is very different.
00:29:43.760 | She's not, she's not that obsessive, you know, vision thing.
00:29:48.980 | She's much more in the present.
00:29:51.360 | She's not foolish.
00:29:52.840 | She's just much more in the present.
00:29:54.960 | And she thinks less about, well, these are all the directions I need to go.
00:29:58.800 | But I know it makes a world of difference when I spend a lot of time asking and trying
00:30:03.760 | to encourage her, hey, write these, write down, share with me, write a journal entry.
00:30:08.200 | Here's a journaling exercise.
00:30:09.200 | Now give that to me so that I can understand and so then we can talk together and I can
00:30:13.000 | make sure that we're not just charging off after Joshua's great crazy ideas without making
00:30:18.080 | sure that as a family we're accounting for the needs of our family.
00:30:22.160 | She goes back to the concept of teamwork.
00:30:25.200 | We both have a part to play.
00:30:26.920 | And again, it shows the benefits of you all being totally different because she needs
00:30:32.760 | you for vision and for goal setting and you need her for the details of today.
00:30:38.240 | She's the one that says, Joshua, that doesn't make sense.
00:30:43.520 | We can't do that right now.
00:30:45.880 | My wife is the same way.
00:30:46.980 | My wife is the exact same way.
00:30:48.600 | When I have these big lofty ideas and I say let's do this or that, she's quick to tell
00:30:54.520 | me if this is a reality.
00:30:56.280 | Maybe not today, maybe next week, maybe a month from now.
00:30:59.040 | But we both have a part to play.
00:31:01.000 | And as long as we're both playing to our strengths and we're both willing to hear and work with
00:31:04.600 | each other, we're both going to win.
00:31:06.560 | So tell it, you are earning an income now and Ty, you're at home not earning an income.
00:31:12.560 | Do you make special provision for that in your budget somehow or plan for that?
00:31:17.720 | Because in many relationships, especially Ty, with your being at home, many parents,
00:31:24.400 | especially for their daughters, would say don't ever let yourself be in a position of
00:31:30.600 | where you don't have resources.
00:31:32.400 | Don't ever let yourself be in a position where you've got to depend on your husband for income
00:31:37.440 | because you're basically setting yourself up to get cheated on and abandoned and then
00:31:41.920 | you're destroyed.
00:31:42.920 | Do you have any perspective on how you guys account for that fear in your marriage?
00:31:47.040 | Well, prior to us getting married, that's all I used to hear.
00:31:50.880 | People would tell me, "Oh girl, make sure you have your stuff on the side because you
00:31:54.480 | just never know."
00:31:56.000 | But as Tyler said, we went into marriage as a covenant, not as a business contract.
00:32:01.360 | So I didn't go into marriage with an exit plan.
00:32:04.680 | So I don't want to go throughout our marriage with an exit plan.
00:32:08.520 | Now I'm not going to be foolish if I saw that my husband was doing some things that I did
00:32:15.080 | not agree with and it was red sirens going off, then yes, then I would definitely be
00:32:22.080 | put some type of money aside.
00:32:24.680 | But no, that's not how I approach it.
00:32:27.760 | So I wouldn't advise someone else to do the same.
00:32:30.880 | That's the way we do it.
00:32:31.880 | We do it different.
00:32:32.880 | We just don't think about what if our marriage doesn't work.
00:32:37.320 | I think that that just are bad seeds to plant.
00:32:42.040 | And so it's just really all about us trying to get better.
00:32:47.800 | We don't make provisions for disaster.
00:32:52.760 | We just don't.
00:32:53.760 | We make provisions for our future with the intent of having a lifetime together.
00:32:59.920 | And those are the type of seeds that we plant even in our finances.
00:33:03.800 | Again, we don't operate as if I have an income and she doesn't.
00:33:08.360 | We operate as if this is our income.
00:33:11.440 | So from day one, one of the reasons that we've been able to make this transition for her
00:33:14.600 | to come home is we never lived on both incomes when we had two incomes.
00:33:19.360 | We built a life that was based on one income from the beginning.
00:33:22.400 | And so we used one income for our investments or entrepreneurial endeavors.
00:33:27.600 | And so we were used to living on one income.
00:33:30.640 | And so when her mindset changed and she felt like she wanted to come home, we began to
00:33:35.160 | have children and she wanted to be at home with the kids.
00:33:38.160 | It wasn't a huge paradigm shift because we were kind of used to it anyway.
00:33:44.480 | We still had to tighten things up a bit to make room so that that one income can also
00:33:49.520 | include saving and investing money.
00:33:52.240 | But it was because of the mindset that we have, our team, us, it wasn't a hard transition.
00:34:01.240 | You don't think it's a little bit of a naive approach?
00:34:04.180 | Not for us because again, as Ty mentioned, our roots are biblical.
00:34:08.840 | And so when we decided that we were going to get married, we decided that we were going
00:34:13.580 | to be married forever.
00:34:15.200 | And so again, it's hard work.
00:34:17.520 | There have been low points.
00:34:19.160 | There have been tough times.
00:34:21.400 | We've been through it.
00:34:22.780 | We know what it feels like to want to separate, to want to let things fall apart.
00:34:29.080 | But our foundation tells us we need to work through it.
00:34:33.160 | So maybe it is naive, but it's also biblical.
00:34:37.040 | That's really all that matters to us.
00:34:40.540 | One thing that we do in my family, and I want to mention it as just a practical tip for
00:34:46.120 | anybody who's listening to this show, I think it's important.
00:34:50.560 | In my family, I earn the income for our household and I'm also the person who coordinates the
00:35:00.280 | bills and the check register and things like that.
00:35:03.880 | And I'm also the spender in the family compared to my wife, who is the saver.
00:35:09.720 | I'm much more easily influenced by, "Man, I want to buy this new gadget."
00:35:13.320 | I'm much more easily influenced by, "Man, this new thing over here."
00:35:17.120 | So when you start adding those things together, I earn the income.
00:35:20.920 | I manage the monthly budget, manage the accounts.
00:35:25.440 | I'm the spender.
00:35:26.440 | And then you add to that the fact that I have a business and I run the business and there
00:35:32.360 | are expenditures that I may make in business that have a specific business function that
00:35:37.040 | I wouldn't make if I weren't able to earn money off of them.
00:35:42.640 | So one of the things that I'm very aware of, and I think husbands, if they're in a situation
00:35:47.760 | like I am, need to be very aware of, that can lead to a real, I'm not sure the right
00:35:54.680 | word, imbalance of power, I would say maybe imbalance of influence.
00:35:58.560 | I don't like to think about marriage relationships as a power struggle.
00:36:03.480 | One of the things I've learned is very important that I try to do is, because of those things,
00:36:09.040 | I try to make sure that I'm not a bully.
00:36:14.880 | And I'm also not even tight with the money that my wife needs to run the household and
00:36:22.080 | the money that my wife needs even for her own personal consumption.
00:36:26.000 | Now it's got to be in arrangement to, it's got to be in comparison to the income of the
00:36:32.080 | household, but I try to make sure that she never has to come and ask me for money.
00:36:39.520 | And what I find, that's really, really beneficial because I know, number one, she is so thrifty
00:36:45.480 | and she is so frugal.
00:36:47.000 | So in my mind, I want her to always have plenty of money lying around that she can do what
00:36:51.640 | she wants with so she doesn't feel like she has to come and say, "Ask Joshua, okay, Joshua,
00:36:56.960 | can I have money?"
00:36:58.040 | I think when spouses do that and if you're not communicating about a vision, if you're
00:37:03.560 | not coordinating your household together, and then if one spouse is pulling all the
00:37:07.180 | strings and has control of the purse strings, it can lead to what you described in that
00:37:11.360 | beginning time of coming and, whether it's husbands or wives, groveling to your spouse
00:37:17.040 | and asking for money.
00:37:18.660 | Then you have a child-parent relationship.
00:37:20.680 | Which is not about a child-parent relationship, it's about my husband-my wife relationship.
00:37:26.400 | Absolutely.
00:37:27.400 | Yeah, I think it's key.
00:37:29.880 | The underlying way to avoid that imbalance, you just said it, is communication.
00:37:35.800 | Not only you saying, "Okay, so these are the numbers, these are the expenses, here we go."
00:37:41.960 | But it's also her saying, "Well, that's not quite enough."
00:37:46.100 | And it's not quite enough because I have to do this, I have to do that, I have to do the
00:37:50.400 | other.
00:37:51.400 | It's a two-way process.
00:37:52.400 | Communication is a two-way process.
00:37:54.240 | It's not just the talking, but it's also the listening.
00:37:57.360 | And so if you have talking and listening going on, whether you're doing all the numbers,
00:38:04.760 | still as long as you're, when you get done talking about the numbers, as long as she's
00:38:08.520 | talking back to you with her input, then it's still teamwork happening.
00:38:15.120 | What is wrong or what people, when they get out into left field, is just that when you
00:38:20.480 | just, the mistake we made at the beginning was tied to the numbers and just handed me
00:38:25.120 | the plan and say, "Okay, here we go."
00:38:27.480 | What has to happen is there has to be two-way communication.
00:38:30.640 | So again, it's not ever going to be 50/50, but you guys are playing to your strengths.
00:38:35.960 | You are the number cruncher, you are the aligner.
00:38:38.760 | I mean, she doesn't know what the business expenses are because she's not operating in
00:38:42.200 | the business.
00:38:43.200 | That can't be her strength because she's not involved.
00:38:46.120 | So her strength is looking at the money and you said she's thrifty, so she's able to stretch
00:38:51.120 | a dollar and make things work better.
00:38:53.040 | And what does that do?
00:38:54.040 | That frees up more cash for you to be able to market or do whatever you need to do with
00:38:57.640 | the company.
00:38:58.640 | So again, it's you all operating as a team.
00:39:00.880 | Just don't, people have to not let themselves get caught up in operating or attempting to
00:39:06.360 | operate 50/50 because it's just not a reality and you're going to be frustrated, but you
00:39:10.240 | can't operate it as 100 and zero either.
00:39:12.220 | You got to have some type of balance and balance 70/30, believe it or not, is balance.
00:39:17.680 | 80/20 is balance as long as you're both playing to your strengths and you can win as long
00:39:22.720 | as you're both doing your part and you're doing your part well.
00:39:26.120 | So your website and your podcast is His and Her Money.
00:39:30.240 | Do you guys stay exclusively focused on these couples discussions or do you talk about other
00:39:34.360 | areas of finance as well?
00:39:35.720 | Yeah, we talk about marriage, money, home organization.
00:39:39.080 | We're trying to help as many married couples as possible get on good financial footing
00:39:44.560 | because again, marriage and money are two tough things to put together.
00:39:49.000 | It's one of the leading causes of divorce.
00:39:51.160 | So if we can get a husband and wife together on the same page financially, we know that
00:39:56.660 | a lot of that stress, anxiety and downfall can be avoided.
00:40:01.880 | And so that's our focus.
00:40:03.160 | We have the site, the podcast, the YouTube channel, all His and Her Money, Twitter, Facebook,
00:40:08.080 | wherever you want to find us.
00:40:09.080 | And we also share a lot of debt-free stories.
00:40:10.840 | We believe that every marriage, well every person in general should be debt-free.
00:40:16.040 | So we share a lot of debt-free stories on how people got out of debt in even a short
00:40:22.120 | period of time and what were some of the steps that they've taken.
00:40:25.640 | Your voice alone, Talit and Ty, your voices alone, especially you Talit, makes me want
00:40:30.240 | to listen.
00:40:31.240 | You have such a cool radio voice.
00:40:32.240 | You got that deep voice, you got kind of the real soft accent.
00:40:37.240 | Thank you, thank you.
00:40:38.240 | Hopefully we can also get you on the show and you can share your story.
00:40:42.240 | I'd love to.
00:40:43.240 | Absolutely.
00:40:44.240 | Yeah, I'd love to.
00:40:45.240 | Thanks so much for coming on guys.
00:40:46.240 | Hisandhermoney.com, His and Her Money podcast.
00:40:47.680 | Any other websites you need people to know about?
00:40:49.240 | You can also find us on YouTube at youtube.com/hisandhermoney.
00:40:53.480 | We have over 100 videos there.
00:40:55.520 | Again, getting this content, we learn, that people learn differently.
00:40:59.020 | So we put a lot of our content in video format as well.
00:41:01.640 | So if you're more apt to learn through video, head to youtube.com/hisandhermoney.
00:41:07.120 | Cool.
00:41:08.120 | Thanks for coming on.
00:41:09.120 | Thank you for having us.
00:41:10.120 | Thanks for having us.
00:41:11.120 | Now that you heard the interview, you got to do something and do something in order
00:41:17.200 | to at least start the ball rolling with your spouse.
00:41:19.840 | I hope that some of the ideas and discussions that we had maybe gave you some ideas of ways
00:41:26.440 | that you can more proactively interact with your spouse.
00:41:30.120 | I'll tell you, managing money together is not easy, but it is worth it because it allows
00:41:36.440 | us to be focused on the same goal together.
00:41:42.520 | It makes all the difference in the world.
00:41:45.480 | It allows for synergy and us to work together.
00:41:49.520 | So Talent and Ty, thank you for coming on the show.
00:41:51.600 | If you are interested in checking out their stuff, hisandhermoney.com.
00:41:55.840 | Also they have a brand new project.
00:41:57.080 | Since it's been a while, I popped over to their website.
00:41:59.000 | They have a brand new project, which is a community of people talking about this stuff
00:42:03.120 | called Smart Money Couples.
00:42:05.320 | So if you would like to join that community and talk with some other people about this
00:42:08.760 | particular topic, go to smartmoneycouples.com.
00:42:12.400 | Just notice they launched that.
00:42:13.400 | I want to help them with some publicity for that.
00:42:15.960 | Smartmoneycouples.com.
00:42:16.960 | That will forward you through to a private Facebook group.
00:42:19.320 | Click join and I'm sure they'll approve you and you can interact with some other people
00:42:22.880 | who are working together on these topics.
00:42:24.440 | It might be a great resource for you, especially if you're having stress.
00:42:27.760 | I talk a little bit here and there on the show about this topic, but it's not a daily
00:42:31.240 | theme.
00:42:32.240 | If you're having stress in your marital relationship as regards money, it's a daily source of
00:42:37.680 | stress for most of us.
00:42:38.960 | So go to smartmoneycouples.com and see if you can join their community.
00:42:42.640 | Thank you all so much for listening to today's show.
00:42:44.580 | If you would like to support the show and you would like to put a little bit of money
00:42:47.800 | in my pocket, that helps me immensely to cover the cost of the show, to cover the cost of
00:42:51.880 | going to FinCon and all of that stuff to get these interviews for you guys.
00:42:55.440 | I'm able to do that because of your patronage.
00:42:58.960 | If you'd like to support the show directly, please go to radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron.
00:43:06.720 | You will find all the information there that you need and I would love to have you supporting
00:43:10.240 | the show there.
00:43:11.240 | Thank you so much for listening and I'll be back with you soon.
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