RPF0204-Todd_Simpson

00:00:00.000 | - Big Boyz Comedy Kings is coming to Yamaha Resort and Casino

00:00:03.200 | Saturday, December 9th with D.L. Hughlin.

00:00:05.840 | - That sweater so tight, look like a snap between the legs.

00:00:08.240 | - Cedric the Entertainer.

00:00:09.540 | - Once we stop running, I'll find out

00:00:11.240 | what it was we was running about.

00:00:13.080 | - And Paul Rodriguez.

00:00:14.320 | - What is it about old Mexican men?

00:00:15.980 | They could be missing a leg, they still

00:00:17.360 | want to get into a fight.

00:00:18.480 | - Hosted by my man Eric Blake in a special performance

00:00:20.960 | by Mario.

00:00:21.880 | Big Boyz Comedy Kings, December 9th

00:00:23.720 | at Yamaha Resort and Casino.

00:00:25.260 | Tickets can be purchased at AXS.com.

00:00:27.900 | This is a 21 and over event.

00:00:30.300 | - Would you like to get the back office scoop

00:00:32.200 | from an experienced veteran of the life insurance industry

00:00:36.100 | to understand how companies actually

00:00:38.100 | approach the underwriting of individual policies?

00:00:40.840 | Today I'm going to share with you an interview

00:00:42.640 | with a friend of mine, a man named Todd Simpson, who

00:00:45.220 | is a 30-plus year veteran of the life insurance industry

00:00:48.360 | and specializes in high risk, or what we call special risk,

00:00:53.920 | underwriting for life insurance.

00:00:56.200 | I think you'll enjoy this behind the scenes view

00:00:59.100 | of the industry.

00:01:00.340 | [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:01:03.780 | Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast.

00:01:18.380 | My name is Joshua Sheets.

00:01:19.480 | This is episode 204 of the show.

00:01:23.360 | I'm going to be with a friend of mine, Todd Simpson.

00:01:26.220 | Todd is one of the partners in a company called the Stam Agency.

00:01:29.460 | He is an insurance broker.

00:01:30.560 | Doesn't work directly with individual clients,

00:01:32.460 | but rather works as a broker working with life insurance

00:01:35.060 | agents.

00:01:36.100 | Took some microphones into his office,

00:01:37.680 | pinned him down, and asked him all the hard questions

00:01:40.140 | that I think you would want to ask him

00:01:41.780 | if you had the opportunity.

00:01:43.380 | [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:01:46.780 | I've mentioned Todd a couple of times on the show,

00:01:50.740 | not by name, but in referencing a friend of mine who

00:01:53.720 | was a high risk or a special risk broker.

00:01:55.520 | And this was somebody that I worked

00:01:56.940 | with when I was an active life insurance agent to help

00:01:59.180 | me place a lot of my cases.

00:02:01.140 | Todd's a great guy, has a long history in the life insurance

00:02:03.480 | business, and I think you'll enjoy some of the behind

00:02:05.920 | the scenes access.

00:02:07.240 | Doing my best to change the tenor

00:02:09.640 | and the tone of financial media.

00:02:13.200 | So oftentimes, the people that are referenced

00:02:15.720 | on financial media, the people that want to be out there,

00:02:18.240 | and the people that are out there with a message,

00:02:20.360 | with something to sell.

00:02:21.680 | And I'm trying to go to the people that aren't out there

00:02:23.980 | asking for things and try to talk about how things really

00:02:27.480 | happen, to try to expose the reality of things to you.

00:02:32.280 | And that was what happened.

00:02:33.520 | I called up Todd, and I said, hey, Todd,

00:02:34.880 | I want to come and talk to you and bring you on the show.

00:02:36.520 | He wasn't necessarily looking for it.

00:02:38.520 | He didn't really want to do it, but he agreed to do it.

00:02:41.420 | And that was how he wound up on the show.

00:02:43.160 | But I think you'll find this insightful.

00:02:45.160 | I'm trying to ask him the toughest questions that I can

00:02:47.460 | to try to create more of communication.

00:02:50.940 | Especially if you ever owned life insurance

00:02:52.880 | or ever want to own life insurance,

00:02:54.520 | you'll find this to be useful.

00:02:55.760 | And if you know anybody who's ever

00:02:56.840 | been declined for life insurance or who's

00:02:58.560 | been rated for life insurance, or if you find yourself

00:03:00.800 | in that situation, this is a useful resource for you.

00:03:04.840 | Todd is an expert.

00:03:05.960 | He's a CLU and a CHFC.

00:03:07.200 | That means he's a chartered life underwriter and a chartered

00:03:09.740 | financial consultant.

00:03:10.600 | He's been in the business for many, many years.

00:03:12.760 | And he is an expert when it comes especially

00:03:15.520 | to the topic of insurance underwriting.

00:03:18.240 | He is-- in the old days, they would call insurance agents

00:03:21.440 | field underwriters.

00:03:22.960 | Now unfortunately, I think some of that professionalism

00:03:25.200 | has been lost in the life insurance business.

00:03:28.040 | But in many ways, a life insurance agent

00:03:30.220 | is, in fact, an underwriter that's in the field.

00:03:33.680 | They're the first line of actually figuring out

00:03:37.000 | what's an appropriate solution for this specific client,

00:03:41.300 | for this specific need.

00:03:43.120 | Todd is kind of the next level.

00:03:44.680 | He's a broker.

00:03:45.720 | So his responsibility is to figure out

00:03:48.200 | where do I place this case.

00:03:49.880 | And he's been, in my years as a financial--

00:03:52.720 | as an insurance agent, he was a very useful resource to me.

00:03:56.280 | Knowing what company to place a case with

00:03:58.240 | and knowing how to structure a case

00:03:59.680 | can make a major, major difference.

00:04:02.720 | And I think you'll hear that in this interview with Todd.

00:04:06.400 | There is a level of professional expertise

00:04:08.680 | that goes a long way in the life insurance business.

00:04:11.880 | That's it for me.

00:04:12.640 | Here we go.

00:04:14.140 | [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:04:15.300 | So Todd, welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast.

00:04:17.680 | I appreciate your being with me today.

00:04:19.660 | I appreciate you having me.

00:04:20.820 | Thank you.

00:04:21.500 | I bragged about you on the show before.

00:04:23.140 | I've talked about my special risk broker

00:04:25.620 | who was able to help me place all these high risk cases.

00:04:28.820 | And now we get you here live and in person

00:04:31.260 | to school us on what to do with some special risk life

00:04:35.620 | insurance cases.

00:04:36.320 | But I'd like to start with just hearing

00:04:38.760 | a little bit about your background in the life

00:04:40.980 | insurance business.

00:04:41.860 | How did you wind up in the life insurance business?

00:04:44.340 | Well, I really had no direction in what I wanted

00:04:46.860 | to be doing back in 1983.

00:04:49.140 | And I was at a social event and introduced

00:04:52.580 | to the then owner of the agency that I'm still currently with.

00:04:56.380 | And he and I had some nice conversation.

00:04:59.380 | And he asked me what I thought I was going to be doing.

00:05:02.820 | How old were you at the time?

00:05:04.180 | I was 19.

00:05:05.140 | [LAUGHTER]

00:05:06.980 | And he and I had some nice conversation.

00:05:10.620 | And then over the next few months,

00:05:12.620 | we continued to have some conversations.

00:05:15.300 | And he offered me a job.

00:05:18.260 | He said, why don't you come into the office

00:05:20.020 | and see what you think, try it out.

00:05:22.620 | And he gave me a basic breakdown of what they did,

00:05:25.940 | which I had no understanding of whatsoever.

00:05:29.060 | And the rest is history.

00:05:32.300 | So no experience, just fresh off the street.

00:05:34.300 | And you built your business cold calling on people

00:05:37.140 | or working with agents?

00:05:39.020 | Or what was the initial--

00:05:41.140 | what did your business look like in the beginning?

00:05:43.220 | I wish it was that pretty.

00:05:45.300 | It actually ended up being coming into the office

00:05:48.820 | and learning a little bit about the business,

00:05:52.380 | very basic things.

00:05:53.380 | They threw books at me to read, anything

00:05:56.580 | they could get their hands on.

00:05:58.300 | And his offer to me was, you basically

00:06:03.460 | have to work through every job in the office

00:06:05.540 | before we can really teach you anything substantial.

00:06:09.220 | So I had that moment where I was like, oh, man,

00:06:11.300 | am I getting duped?

00:06:12.780 | Or is this really going to be something for a career?

00:06:15.940 | And that was his guidance to me, was if you want a career,

00:06:19.580 | you've got to learn everything that we do.

00:06:21.500 | So I literally started answering phones for the agency

00:06:25.140 | to start with and worked my way through every job.

00:06:28.500 | And back in those days, we had 20 employees.

00:06:31.620 | So there were a lot of jobs to work through,

00:06:33.420 | a lot of different things we were

00:06:34.760 | able to do that have changed.

00:06:35.940 | And the interesting thing is, some of the things

00:06:38.740 | we were doing back then, you wouldn't think of doing now.

00:06:41.900 | Like what?

00:06:42.420 | We financed premiums.

00:06:43.980 | OK.

00:06:45.100 | Which was totally legal at the time, everyone.

00:06:47.300 | A little different now.

00:06:48.300 | Totally legal.

00:06:49.180 | But we would actually, because the companies didn't

00:06:52.180 | annualize commissions, we would pay the annual premiums

00:06:55.780 | on the policies.

00:06:56.740 | And the clients would sign a promissory note with us.

00:06:58.980 | And we would actually go about collecting premiums.

00:07:03.100 | So would 1983 still have been the days of rate books

00:07:06.000 | and going through the tables and manually calculating things

00:07:10.180 | prior to illustrations and all of that?

00:07:12.080 | Exactly.

00:07:14.160 | You say rate card to someone now,

00:07:15.580 | and they're like, what are you talking about?

00:07:17.460 | And that was really our only basis of quoting.

00:07:20.780 | Probably about six months after I started

00:07:23.220 | with the agency in 1984--

00:07:24.900 | 1984 was my actual start date with the agency.

00:07:27.500 | And we got our first IBM PC with the floppy disks.

00:07:32.660 | And I think I was the first one in the office

00:07:36.340 | to actually run an illustration on the new IBM personal

00:07:40.180 | computer.

00:07:40.820 | So it was an interesting time.

00:07:44.420 | But it was right at the time that Universal Life actually

00:07:47.220 | came on the scene.

00:07:48.420 | At the time, we were quoting term and whole life.

00:07:51.380 | And those were the only two products that were even

00:07:53.820 | available at that time.

00:07:56.380 | The managing director who recruited me into the business

00:07:58.700 | would tell me stories of sitting there and filling in custom

00:08:02.220 | kind of graphs with colored pencils and illustrations

00:08:05.580 | and kind of printing them up.

00:08:06.980 | And you had your standard 100,000 of 90 life

00:08:10.580 | and 100,000 of ordinary life and 100,000 of term.

00:08:13.780 | And that was what you had to work with.

00:08:15.380 | Exactly.

00:08:16.660 | So here's the question.

00:08:18.860 | Fast forward to today, and you produce all the time

00:08:21.940 | customized illustrations with details.

00:08:26.060 | Do you think the business has--

00:08:29.940 | are clients better served by the way it is now,

00:08:32.300 | or were they better served back then?

00:08:36.100 | That's an interesting question.

00:08:37.820 | Because I think we did a lot of things really well back then.

00:08:41.540 | And I think there was a little more client-agent-broker

00:08:45.580 | interaction.

00:08:47.260 | Because people weren't looking for everything today.

00:08:49.780 | They knew it was going to take time.

00:08:51.280 | So you had more conversations with your clients.

00:08:53.500 | You had probably a little more personal contact.

00:08:58.060 | Now, everybody's looking for everything quick.

00:09:01.820 | And sometimes it makes me wonder,

00:09:03.700 | not being out in the field, how much interaction

00:09:05.820 | the agents are actually having with their clients.

00:09:08.220 | Is it a quick sale where the client's like, hey, listen,

00:09:10.380 | I'm giving you half an hour.

00:09:11.460 | You better get in here and give me everything

00:09:13.300 | and explain it and get it to me right now?

00:09:16.380 | Or is there a buildup to that?

00:09:18.460 | Is there a lot of interaction?

00:09:21.260 | So I think it's different the way people do it now.

00:09:24.940 | But I think the ease of getting information

00:09:27.900 | is better now, obviously.

00:09:30.820 | Without the internet, back then you

00:09:32.460 | had to call God knows how many people at home office

00:09:34.700 | to get an answer.

00:09:36.380 | Or I remember during my studies for CLU,

00:09:41.540 | you had to find a mentor.

00:09:43.180 | And you were hoping that they knew the answer to the question

00:09:46.020 | because you couldn't just Google it.

00:09:47.540 | And you'd be like, all right, I need

00:09:48.980 | to know what this term means or that term means.

00:09:52.180 | And so it's interesting now.

00:09:56.300 | So my audience generally in today's world,

00:09:59.060 | many people have very strong feelings on life insurance.

00:10:03.140 | What you should do, what you shouldn't do,

00:10:05.460 | what's the right type of policies.

00:10:07.860 | People have a lot of strong feelings,

00:10:09.980 | especially in the personal finance space, which

00:10:11.900 | is where I spend my time.

00:10:13.500 | Is that different in 2015 than it was in 1985?

00:10:17.740 | Or were people very opinionated, just the general public

00:10:21.820 | back then as well?

00:10:24.820 | The interesting thing to me back then

00:10:28.220 | was I can remember whole life was sold because term

00:10:32.300 | was almost just as expensive.

00:10:34.220 | Really?

00:10:34.780 | Yeah, there were no level-- you had basically

00:10:37.020 | YRT, which is a one-year term.

00:10:39.660 | The earlier renewable term, YRT.

00:10:41.580 | And 10-year term might have been the two options you had.

00:10:44.900 | And the YRT would literally become just as expensive

00:10:47.780 | as a whole life in about three years.

00:10:50.100 | So it was easier to sell whole life from the get-go

00:10:52.820 | and just tell folks, hey, this is what you need.

00:10:54.780 | You should have this cash value build up.

00:10:57.380 | And as the different level terms came up,

00:11:00.220 | that changed a little bit and skewed it a little bit.

00:11:03.060 | And then universal life, of course, when that came,

00:11:05.940 | people were illustrating 13%, 14%, 15% returns

00:11:09.940 | when it first came out.

00:11:11.060 | And that changed the scope because you

00:11:14.260 | could get a term-like premium with a return on your money,

00:11:17.940 | which really kind of blew up.

00:11:20.380 | And it was a good thing for a little while.

00:11:23.300 | Obviously, the rates didn't hold up.

00:11:24.900 | And you won't see any of those policies around anymore,

00:11:27.260 | I'm sure.

00:11:28.140 | Was the term-- so describe the term "life debacle"

00:11:32.020 | as far as the idea of vanishing premiums,

00:11:34.300 | the way they were illustrated.

00:11:35.660 | Describe what happened from your perspective

00:11:37.660 | as a broker and agent.

00:11:41.180 | As far as term insurance goes?

00:11:42.500 | No, universal life insurance.

00:11:43.980 | Oh, the universal life.

00:11:45.060 | It was just crazy to think that you

00:11:49.340 | could get that kind of return.

00:11:51.820 | But no one saw it at the time.

00:11:55.020 | Insurance companies had come from a place of safety.

00:11:58.420 | Again, they were showing term.

00:12:00.180 | You had these premiums right in front of you that were term.

00:12:02.720 | And then you had these premiums for whole life.

00:12:05.060 | And they were pretty much guaranteed.

00:12:07.180 | They said, as long as you pay these premiums.

00:12:09.020 | And then universal life came in and said, hey, guess what?

00:12:11.440 | You can become flexible with your premium.

00:12:13.860 | We can save you money by interest rate.

00:12:16.420 | And that was something that people had never seen before.

00:12:20.380 | And you could get a term-like premium

00:12:22.180 | and actually have a return on it.

00:12:24.340 | People jumped all over it, especially at 13% or 14%.

00:12:28.580 | You were looking at some seriously decreasing premiums.

00:12:33.100 | And with that, term insurance then got cheaper.

00:12:37.300 | And then the different level periods of term came in.

00:12:39.780 | Why did term insurance get cheaper?

00:12:41.100 | To be able to compete effectively?

00:12:42.520 | Or what was the market press on it?

00:12:44.380 | Well, at the time, universal life, when it came out,

00:12:48.380 | could actually have been cheaper than 10, 15, or 20-year term

00:12:52.660 | with a return on it.

00:12:53.740 | So all of a sudden, the company started thinking,

00:12:55.460 | well, we're obviously not going to sell any term

00:12:57.460 | if we're doing this.

00:12:59.060 | And that's when the term started--

00:13:02.660 | the term wars, in a sense, that they talk about now

00:13:05.060 | that are going on, and they are currently going on,

00:13:08.060 | started really way back then when universal life hit.

00:13:10.860 | Because the premiums, they had to find a way

00:13:12.860 | to make those products more affordable.

00:13:16.380 | So that would have been late '80s, early '90s?

00:13:21.220 | Yes.

00:13:22.300 | Since then, in your guess, how much have rates decreased

00:13:25.700 | on term insurance, for example?

00:13:30.020 | It would be hard for me to say, but I

00:13:31.820 | would say they're probably 75% cheaper than they

00:13:34.300 | were back in the day.

00:13:36.700 | And do you think that's primarily the market forces,

00:13:38.900 | the competition?

00:13:39.820 | How much of that is associated with the changes in mortality

00:13:42.320 | tables?

00:13:42.820 | What do you think?

00:13:44.180 | I think it's got some to do with mortality tables,

00:13:48.020 | but mostly just pricing.

00:13:51.340 | Companies came down to, we've got to do this in order

00:13:54.940 | to sell any of this.

00:13:57.340 | It's interesting to me, because back in the '80s,

00:14:02.180 | if you got a million dollar death benefit,

00:14:04.580 | that was a big deal.

00:14:05.460 | You were a big shot.

00:14:06.220 | Yeah, you were.

00:14:07.020 | That was a great case.

00:14:08.220 | Companies would actually fly down and bring you the policy.

00:14:11.460 | And that's on a term case.

00:14:12.540 | That could be a 10-year term case.

00:14:14.020 | So a million dollar policy on a 50-year-old,

00:14:16.340 | and they're like, oh my gosh, we're

00:14:17.800 | going to come down and we're going to actually fly down

00:14:19.620 | and bring you the policy.

00:14:20.700 | We'll go with you to go deliver that policy.

00:14:23.820 | Now you get a million dollar policy on a 50-year-old

00:14:26.260 | and it barely keeps the lights on.

00:14:29.820 | It's just not that profitable anymore.

00:14:33.700 | So how did you wind up in your current specialty

00:14:35.820 | of special risk broker?

00:14:38.780 | The agency was created because the founder

00:14:43.260 | saw a need that wasn't being looked at by people's companies.

00:14:51.980 | And I can't even really remember the names of the companies.

00:14:57.580 | Consumers Life comes to mind, Transport Life.

00:15:02.460 | Fidelity Bankers Life was another company.

00:15:04.700 | These were companies that were A-rated companies with best.

00:15:08.660 | And this was back before S&P got into heavily rating companies.

00:15:12.820 | And he got a group of these companies together and said,

00:15:15.500 | hey, I want to start an agency where the agents can come

00:15:19.180 | when their company won't do a case.

00:15:21.500 | And let's help them do it.

00:15:22.980 | And how can we do that?

00:15:24.100 | And these companies basically established

00:15:27.580 | more creative guidelines for underwriting

00:15:31.500 | and started looking more at the people

00:15:33.180 | as individuals versus a group.

00:15:34.900 | Because we all know how insurance pricing works.

00:15:38.500 | It's basically set on groups of people.

00:15:40.780 | And you're in this group, and that's

00:15:42.260 | how you pay your premium.

00:15:43.300 | So that's how they were underwriting it.

00:15:45.580 | Because all that pricing was basically set up on--

00:15:50.300 | and again, at that time, they didn't

00:15:51.780 | have preferred and preferred best.

00:15:53.180 | It was more like standard was the best rate.

00:15:55.620 | And so everything was based on standard.

00:15:58.340 | And they just couldn't get over--

00:16:00.580 | we can't look outside this box of pricing.

00:16:04.100 | And we got these other companies to basically look

00:16:06.220 | outside the box of pricing and look at people's

00:16:08.420 | individuals.

00:16:09.260 | And that's kind of how it got started.

00:16:12.100 | So you had the idea of working and serving

00:16:15.380 | the agents who were captive or semi-captive

00:16:18.940 | to their companies, but who, when they had a case

00:16:22.060 | that their company wouldn't take based on underwriting

00:16:24.260 | guidelines, to go ahead and be the broker for them

00:16:27.380 | to help them place that case.

00:16:28.620 | Exactly.

00:16:29.900 | Interesting.

00:16:31.100 | What are the most common medical conditions

00:16:35.460 | that wind up on your desk?

00:16:39.580 | We see a ton of diabetes, obviously coronary artery

00:16:44.580 | disease is another one, cancers.

00:16:48.540 | Those would be the three primaries.

00:16:50.260 | There's obviously anything that could technically

00:16:53.340 | be wrong with someone could come across my desk.

00:16:55.580 | But on a daily basis, I'm dealing with those probably

00:16:58.380 | 80% of the time.

00:16:59.700 | So let's start with diabetes.

00:17:01.460 | Someone's listening.

00:17:02.860 | They say, I've got diabetes.

00:17:04.500 | I need some life insurance.

00:17:06.980 | They haven't gone through the state.

00:17:08.540 | They don't have a broker, an agent that's

00:17:10.260 | working with them yet.

00:17:11.580 | What does somebody with diabetes need

00:17:13.980 | to know to be able to A, even place the case,

00:17:16.940 | and B, improve their rates if they go out and are

00:17:19.860 | trying to get a policy?

00:17:22.420 | Well, it really comes down to how that individual's diabetes

00:17:26.380 | is controlled.

00:17:28.420 | There's obviously still uninsurable type scenarios,

00:17:34.780 | but there is as good as standard scenarios

00:17:36.940 | when it comes to diabetes.

00:17:39.180 | You basically need to know date of onset, how it's controlled,

00:17:45.140 | is there family history, are they doing the right things,

00:17:49.540 | are they going to their doctor on a regular basis,

00:17:51.700 | are there readings within a parameter,

00:17:54.500 | different things like that.

00:17:55.820 | So somebody's been declined in the past, and they say,

00:17:59.060 | I want to get life insurance.

00:18:02.140 | The steps that they need to be taking is, number one,

00:18:04.780 | consistently visiting with their doctor,

00:18:07.620 | doing what their doctor says, and getting their A1C levels

00:18:12.180 | to an acceptable range.

00:18:13.820 | And what would be the range, in your guess,

00:18:15.660 | for someone with diabetes who's doing their A1C readings?

00:18:20.140 | Anything up to A is writable.

00:18:23.660 | It's going to be rated.

00:18:25.220 | The companies would rather see less than seven.

00:18:28.180 | And less than seven is actually pretty good control

00:18:31.780 | for a diabetic.

00:18:33.580 | But up to eight is writable.

00:18:34.900 | Sometimes over eight is writable.

00:18:36.620 | Again, it just kind of depends on the different things

00:18:39.420 | that you're looking at.

00:18:40.900 | But the primary thing that the companies

00:18:43.540 | are looking for these days is someone

00:18:45.260 | who actually listens to their doctor

00:18:47.620 | and goes to the doctor on a regular basis

00:18:50.100 | and is checking the things that they need to.

00:18:52.340 | The number one issue that hurts us

00:18:55.220 | is people who think they know more than their doctor.

00:18:58.660 | And that happens a lot now because of the internet.

00:19:01.620 | We talked before about how things were back then

00:19:04.020 | versus now.

00:19:05.300 | And let's face it, information is a dime a dozen

00:19:08.380 | on the internet.

00:19:09.460 | You could Google diabetes and read for days.

00:19:12.860 | And some people do that.

00:19:14.580 | And then they think they know more than their doctor,

00:19:16.340 | and it's really not the case.

00:19:18.460 | - Heart disease.

00:19:20.460 | What are the types of heart disease

00:19:22.460 | that can just skate in without any ratings?

00:19:26.300 | What are the types that are mildly rated?

00:19:27.900 | Where do you get into severe and decline?

00:19:31.540 | - The interesting thing about heart disease

00:19:33.260 | is there's so many different things attached to it.

00:19:36.220 | And obviously, believe it or not,

00:19:40.020 | the easiest one to underwrite is a heart attack.

00:19:42.060 | - Why?

00:19:42.900 | - Because you know it happened.

00:19:43.780 | - Right, okay.

00:19:44.620 | - It's a very findable issue,

00:19:46.580 | and it's a very treatable issue.

00:19:49.660 | Either by catheterization, bypass surgery, stenting,

00:19:54.660 | whatever the source may be that's needed to handle that.

00:19:59.440 | But it's actually kind of a cut and dry illness.

00:20:02.560 | And with the advances in medicine,

00:20:06.940 | the doctors can see in your arteries,

00:20:09.180 | they can see how your valves are working,

00:20:10.820 | they can see all that kind of stuff going on.

00:20:12.540 | So it is very treatable.

00:20:15.080 | And again, if you follow what your doctors say

00:20:17.100 | and you follow a diet, you do some exercise,

00:20:19.420 | and you're not a couch potato,

00:20:20.820 | then that definitely works out.

00:20:23.880 | The harder things to write are carotid artery issues.

00:20:29.780 | And that's actually where most plaque begins,

00:20:33.220 | because then you're kind of going from CAD to stroke,

00:20:38.140 | possibilities, those things become hard to underwrite.

00:20:41.120 | Tachycardias and arrhythmias,

00:20:45.300 | which are just basically different abnormal heartbeats,

00:20:48.900 | those are very difficult,

00:20:50.100 | because those are electrical responses

00:20:52.100 | that have to then do with your brain

00:20:53.620 | and the cycle of your body.

00:20:55.320 | So those become a little harder to underwrite.

00:20:58.300 | Valve disease is also coronary artery disease,

00:21:01.580 | and it just depends on how your valves are functioning.

00:21:05.260 | If you've had a valve replacement, that's actually good,

00:21:08.420 | depending on the valve replacement when it was done,

00:21:10.900 | because most valve replacements have to be redone.

00:21:14.820 | So if you have a 10-year shelf life,

00:21:17.700 | come and get your insurance two years

00:21:19.340 | after you have the valve done,

00:21:21.820 | and keep it in force, because closer to 10 years,

00:21:25.100 | we may be looking at, well, you know what,

00:21:26.420 | he could be having issues with that valve now,

00:21:28.220 | and there might be, you know,

00:21:29.580 | it doesn't mean that it has to be replaced after 10 years,

00:21:32.060 | but there's more of a likelihood it's having an issue again.

00:21:36.020 | - I know rules of thumb are dangerous,

00:21:37.780 | but if someone's had a condition,

00:21:40.740 | should they wait a certain amount of time?

00:21:42.700 | Should they wait a year

00:21:43.620 | and then go start investigating insurance?

00:21:46.780 | Or should they investigate right away?

00:21:48.700 | Should they wait two years?

00:21:50.860 | What advice would you give in general?

00:21:53.460 | - I'm glad you asked me that,

00:21:54.540 | because we get a lot of calls from guys who do wait,

00:21:58.060 | and my advice is to call me right away.

00:22:01.220 | And the reason for that is,

00:22:03.100 | depending on severity of the issue,

00:22:06.700 | let's say a heart attack, for instance,

00:22:08.820 | if you had a heart attack,

00:22:10.100 | and it was just because you had one artery

00:22:12.100 | that was a little bit clogged,

00:22:13.460 | and they were able to go in and sten it,

00:22:15.580 | we could look at you after three months,

00:22:17.660 | possibly very favorably.

00:22:19.220 | So waiting on that could actually be a negative,

00:22:23.420 | because if you're disease is kind of growing,

00:22:28.420 | and you waited two or three years,

00:22:30.460 | you could end up with three or four arteries

00:22:32.620 | that are started now occluding.

00:22:34.500 | So you get to a point where there's,

00:22:38.500 | obviously the opportune time to get covered

00:22:42.740 | is before you have any issues.

00:22:44.380 | At a young age, you get your coverage,

00:22:46.420 | you can keep it in force,

00:22:47.300 | but if you're not able to do that,

00:22:48.500 | or you didn't know what you needed,

00:22:51.380 | then waiting can sometimes be a hindrance.

00:22:54.620 | Now, it may be that you call me and say,

00:22:58.900 | "Hey, listen, my buddy had triple bypass yesterday,

00:23:02.860 | and I'm gonna tell you,

00:23:04.540 | we'll come back in six months to a year."

00:23:07.220 | But at least we have that conversation.

00:23:09.700 | - Explain how the insurance companies handle information,

00:23:14.300 | and answer if it's a good idea

00:23:17.460 | to go ahead and make some formal inquiries

00:23:19.700 | or formal application early,

00:23:21.940 | 'cause then you're on the record,

00:23:23.660 | and you're on the record,

00:23:24.740 | well, explain, just to split them apart,

00:23:27.620 | number one, explain how the insurance companies

00:23:29.980 | share information among themselves.

00:23:32.780 | - Well, the number one way is through MIB,

00:23:35.140 | which is the Medical Information Bureau.

00:23:37.620 | And back in the early days, that used to be sporadic,

00:23:42.960 | because it was up to individuals

00:23:45.100 | to physically write out a report and mail it to MIB.

00:23:49.020 | Now, we're talking prior to fax machines, email, et cetera.

00:23:52.460 | Now, it's all electronic,

00:23:55.060 | so the underwriter does it as they're underwriting the case.

00:23:57.900 | So the chances of a missed MIB hit are scarce.

00:24:01.780 | Your information is gonna be uploaded to MIB.

00:24:04.940 | - So when you make an application to an insurance company,

00:24:08.060 | they're going to upload your information

00:24:10.140 | to the Medical Information Bureau,

00:24:12.460 | and it's fully accessible then

00:24:14.660 | to any other insurance company who subscribes to the MIB,

00:24:17.260 | which is all of them, right?

00:24:18.180 | - Exactly.

00:24:19.660 | And they basically just code for details.

00:24:22.840 | They don't give a lot of detail.

00:24:25.100 | What they're gonna do is they're gonna code MIB

00:24:29.060 | that an application's been submitted,

00:24:31.340 | and then if they find you have diabetes,

00:24:33.420 | they'll code you for diabetes.

00:24:35.280 | They don't tell what they've done with it.

00:24:37.500 | So another company can't really get the information

00:24:41.380 | that, oh, company A offered me a rating.

00:24:45.260 | They're not gonna get that information.

00:24:48.100 | They're just gonna get that they were looked at

00:24:50.620 | for a certain impairment.

00:24:53.900 | And what we do find on MIB

00:24:58.300 | is the companies do code everything.

00:25:02.240 | I probably have more cases that get declined

00:25:05.540 | because the client wasn't upfront with us

00:25:08.600 | about an issue they had that is coded on MIB.

00:25:12.260 | And that can be anywhere from alcoholism

00:25:14.220 | to a bad driving record to past drug use

00:25:18.700 | to a medical impairment.

00:25:20.620 | Those are the kind of things

00:25:21.700 | that we get stung with quite a bit.

00:25:24.260 | - So the client thinks, 'cause most people,

00:25:28.040 | it's written on every insurance application.

00:25:30.180 | I hereby authorize Insurance Company X

00:25:32.460 | to disclose my information

00:25:33.700 | to the Medical Information Bureau.

00:25:35.200 | No one reads it.

00:25:36.040 | No one has a clue that they're signing it.

00:25:37.260 | So many people, I think, have this idea

00:25:40.460 | that they're going to,

00:25:42.020 | well, I'm just not gonna tell 'em

00:25:43.100 | and they're not gonna see it.

00:25:44.860 | And the answer to that is

00:25:46.180 | if you've made any application ever

00:25:48.660 | which codes certain information,

00:25:51.020 | yeah, I had a DUI, boom, that's in there.

00:25:53.620 | And if you don't disclose it,

00:25:55.540 | you're doing yourself a major,

00:25:57.780 | you're causing a major problem.

00:25:59.300 | - Exactly.

00:26:00.860 | You could be a prime candidate for insurance

00:26:03.380 | and get declined for a misstatement

00:26:05.580 | or a misrepresentation

00:26:07.740 | or just flat out not saying something on application.

00:26:10.900 | - So then you get into, okay, what do I do?

00:26:15.860 | 'Cause if I know that system

00:26:18.420 | and I'm looking at myself and I'm saying,

00:26:20.740 | "All right, I probably should get some insurance,

00:26:23.260 | "but I've got this issue."

00:26:24.940 | (laughs)

00:26:25.780 | I don't wanna, I know that I can't misrepresent something

00:26:29.900 | to use legal language.

00:26:30.860 | I can't lie.

00:26:32.140 | So I'm just gonna choose not to deal with my issue.

00:26:35.380 | Is that the right course of action?

00:26:37.180 | Or how do you work through that?

00:26:40.740 | - The easiest way for us to help with that,

00:26:43.340 | that I see and that I tell our agents is

00:26:46.300 | we can talk to,

00:26:48.660 | well, we can't talk to the client personally,

00:26:51.940 | just there's legal issues about that.

00:26:54.340 | But I can have a conversation with an agent

00:26:58.060 | without a client's name,

00:26:59.900 | with their age instead of date of birth

00:27:02.940 | and with the primary things going on with that individual.

00:27:06.740 | And I can use, number one, my knowledge,

00:27:09.860 | and number two, going to company underwriters anonymously.

00:27:13.800 | That is the one nice thing about what we do

00:27:16.420 | is we can at least get a preliminary look.

00:27:19.520 | And with that, obviously, it's not gonna be any guarantee

00:27:23.420 | that you're going to get insured,

00:27:25.540 | but you can go back to the client with,

00:27:27.100 | "Hey, we went to the companies

00:27:29.200 | "and if what you're telling me

00:27:30.620 | "is really all the information,

00:27:32.680 | "we're looking at this premium.

00:27:35.140 | "And if you feel you can afford that premium,

00:27:37.180 | "then there's no reason we shouldn't go ahead and apply."

00:27:40.020 | 'Cause again, unless something comes out of left field,

00:27:42.780 | you've got a good chance of getting this.

00:27:48.060 | And that's one of the services we offer our guys.

00:27:51.620 | We don't need all of the information up front.

00:27:53.900 | We don't need any distinguishing information

00:27:56.660 | for that client specifically

00:27:58.700 | to kind of give them an idea of what we can do.

00:28:02.220 | - Back to cancer.

00:28:04.140 | Most of the time you hear the cancer diagnosis,

00:28:06.900 | "I'm doomed, I'm never getting life insurance again."

00:28:09.860 | Is that true? (laughs)

00:28:11.900 | - No, it's not.

00:28:13.500 | I would say on average,

00:28:14.980 | cancer is the toughest thing to underwrite.

00:28:19.360 | It's because there's so many different things

00:28:21.660 | that can happen with it.

00:28:22.740 | But it really, again, comes down to the individual,

00:28:25.640 | comes down to what kind of cancer,

00:28:28.820 | where the cancer is located,

00:28:31.560 | what kind of treatment,

00:28:33.140 | whether there was metastasis of the cancer,

00:28:37.220 | all of those different things.

00:28:38.760 | Minor skin cancers are no big deal.

00:28:44.340 | You can underwrite right away.

00:28:46.540 | More invasive skin cancers are postpones, flat extras.

00:28:51.540 | And then you get into the different kinds of cancers,

00:28:58.100 | organ cancers and whatever else, brain cancers,

00:29:02.600 | those kinds of things.

00:29:03.560 | And it just, again, depends on what has been happening.

00:29:06.520 | Obviously early detection,

00:29:08.440 | which everyone wants anyway for longevity,

00:29:11.720 | is a key to underwriting also.

00:29:13.720 | If you get to it early and you get the treatments,

00:29:17.040 | and obviously there's no cure, as they say,

00:29:21.160 | but there is being in remission.

00:29:24.320 | And remission is good enough for the companies.

00:29:27.200 | And that's what they're looking for.

00:29:29.260 | - So what you're saying is listen to Joshua

00:29:30.860 | and get your life insurance now while you don't need it.

00:29:33.620 | (laughing)

00:29:35.880 | - The interesting thing too is what I think we should say

00:29:40.340 | in addition to that is obviously the younger you are,

00:29:43.180 | figure out your need and at least get some coverage.

00:29:47.340 | I mean, obviously when you're younger,

00:29:48.660 | you can't afford as much coverage

00:29:50.060 | as you'll hopefully be able to afford later on in life,

00:29:52.140 | but get something in place.

00:29:54.380 | Worst case that I've seen is people

00:29:56.540 | who just don't get any insurance,

00:29:58.360 | they're 55 and they get diagnosed with cancer

00:30:02.760 | and it's the type that we're just never gonna be able

00:30:04.880 | to underwrite it.

00:30:05.720 | - Right.

00:30:06.920 | - You get a situation like that

00:30:08.840 | and it actually makes me sad to think--

00:30:11.120 | - I hate it.

00:30:11.960 | - That's something that I just can't help somebody with.

00:30:14.300 | And you'd like to and there's just nothing you can do

00:30:18.200 | for that person.

00:30:19.040 | So obviously buying young and healthy

00:30:21.600 | is the name of the game.

00:30:24.360 | The issue in addition to that would be

00:30:27.880 | finding the right product because I can't tell you

00:30:30.960 | how many times someone comes to me and says,

00:30:35.960 | you know, I really only have a 10 year need

00:30:38.960 | for this coverage.

00:30:40.680 | And then 10 years down the road,

00:30:42.440 | those are the people who are calling me and saying,

00:30:44.540 | well, you know, I really messed that up.

00:30:48.800 | I need coverage for at least another 10 years.

00:30:52.300 | So you're looking at higher rates because of age difference,

00:30:55.240 | you're 10 years older.

00:30:56.960 | And obviously as you get older,

00:30:58.520 | you have more possibility of getting some health things.

00:31:03.280 | I mean, whether it's even cholesterol

00:31:04.960 | and high blood pressure and something of that matter,

00:31:09.040 | those things come into effect

00:31:10.520 | and they might not come into effect

00:31:11.860 | where you're actually a rated impaired risk case,

00:31:14.840 | but you're gonna go from best preferred now up to standard.

00:31:19.300 | And you're 10 years older

00:31:20.680 | and you're looking to do this coverage again.

00:31:22.840 | So really overthink how long you think you might need it.

00:31:27.520 | - What's your trick for doing that?

00:31:29.120 | Is it just to go with a longer term?

00:31:31.200 | Do you try, if you were, you know,

00:31:33.480 | if we were sitting down over drinks

00:31:34.760 | and you're giving me advice, young father,

00:31:38.320 | do you point me toward 30 year term,

00:31:41.960 | 20 year term with renewability?

00:31:43.720 | Like how do you approach it personally?

00:31:45.520 | - I usually look at, you know, exactly.

00:31:49.680 | Young father, your need is gonna be at least 30 years.

00:31:53.520 | And again, that's without you and I

00:31:56.280 | having much of a conversation about it,

00:31:57.960 | but I can tell you flat out,

00:31:59.000 | you're gonna need coverage for 30 years.

00:32:01.020 | You think you're gonna wanna just have coverage

00:32:03.000 | to get your kids up through college,

00:32:05.080 | but then you think, oh, well, you know,

00:32:06.480 | by that time I'm gonna have one heck of a mortgage

00:32:08.520 | hanging over me and yeah,

00:32:10.440 | I might wanna like keep that coverage then for my wife

00:32:12.880 | who might get stuck with this mortgage

00:32:14.540 | or you know, whatever else might be going on.

00:32:16.840 | And you know, then by that time,

00:32:19.760 | you know, maybe have grandkids,

00:32:21.440 | you know, those needs always continue.

00:32:23.960 | You know, it's not something that really goes away.

00:32:27.760 | A lot of people think it does,

00:32:28.960 | but the only thing that really goes away,

00:32:30.880 | I think in our business is the business side of insurance.

00:32:35.840 | You know, I mean, obviously if you have

00:32:37.560 | a five year agreement with someone

00:32:40.200 | and at the end of that agreement,

00:32:41.380 | there's gonna be a buyout and you wanna ensure that buyout

00:32:44.800 | then that's an obvious, hey, five year need.

00:32:47.040 | I see that.

00:32:48.840 | But you know, when it's personal and it's family

00:32:52.040 | and you're trying to do the right thing by your loved ones,

00:32:55.240 | I'm not sure that need ever really totally goes away.

00:32:57.840 | - I had the experience and when I got in,

00:32:59.840 | excuse me, when I got into the insurance business,

00:33:02.000 | I was a buy term, invest the difference

00:33:05.120 | until you're self-insured.

00:33:06.160 | That was my philosophy.

00:33:07.680 | So you're gonna be self-insured,

00:33:09.440 | you're not gonna want insurance.

00:33:10.900 | So I remember kind of beating my head against the wall.

00:33:13.240 | Here I was, 23 years old, talking to 50 year old people

00:33:17.080 | and basically telling them,

00:33:18.160 | well, you're not gonna want your insurance.

00:33:19.360 | I'm like, are you kidding me?

00:33:20.860 | And what I've learned is that it seems that

00:33:24.040 | once you've had life insurance for a while,

00:33:26.360 | not everybody, there are exceptions,

00:33:28.480 | but it seems my experience has been number one,

00:33:30.940 | most people don't self-insure

00:33:32.560 | because generally they increase their lifestyle

00:33:34.880 | and they wanna enjoy it.

00:33:36.320 | You know, you've got your Harley and they update the,

00:33:39.280 | they move to the golf club and they go ahead

00:33:42.000 | and buy the fancy boat.

00:33:43.240 | And yes, they're not being necessarily irresponsible,

00:33:46.960 | but they go ahead and upgrade

00:33:48.320 | and they got a little bit of a bigger mortgage

00:33:50.080 | and they're living a little higher lifestyle

00:33:52.120 | and they technically could be okay without the insurance,

00:33:55.760 | but technically okay doesn't feel as good as really okay.

00:34:00.000 | Then the other thing is I think we just get used to it.

00:34:02.800 | Like right now, I often,

00:34:03.960 | if I find myself in some dangerous situation

00:34:06.320 | or some close call, I just think,

00:34:09.840 | thankful that I have life insurance.

00:34:11.740 | And that happens enough and you start to think,

00:34:13.920 | well, that's really nice to have that feeling.

00:34:17.560 | And you start to appreciate it a lot more

00:34:19.360 | than I could conceive of when I was just kind of

00:34:22.880 | doing it based on theory alone.

00:34:25.240 | - Right.

00:34:26.160 | Well, and that is what happens a lot of times.

00:34:29.280 | And for me on a personal level,

00:34:33.240 | my father passed away with very little insurance.

00:34:38.800 | And unfortunately, because I was his son,

00:34:41.440 | he would never talk to me about his insurance need

00:34:43.840 | because in his eyes,

00:34:45.500 | he would always know more than I did about it.

00:34:48.920 | And so I never pushed it.

00:34:51.560 | And back when my parents were growing up,

00:34:55.680 | $100,000 was a lot of money.

00:34:59.200 | So he had $100,000 worth of insurance,

00:35:02.360 | but he died 20 years ago

00:35:05.080 | and all the kids were out of the house.

00:35:06.680 | So he figured, you know what, I don't need to,

00:35:09.760 | my wife doesn't need a bunch of coverage.

00:35:11.560 | The kids are gone, they're on their own.

00:35:13.020 | They're taking care of themselves.

00:35:15.120 | Well, my mother had never worked.

00:35:17.420 | And all of a sudden she was saddled with a mortgage

00:35:22.000 | and outstanding bills and just taxes,

00:35:25.480 | different things that you forget about on a daily basis

00:35:28.320 | that you write checks for.

00:35:29.880 | And he had left her $100,000 policy

00:35:32.840 | with a $40,000 loan against it.

00:35:35.520 | So she ended up with about 60,000 of net,

00:35:38.840 | out of the policy.

00:35:40.160 | And to me that stings and that hits home,

00:35:42.960 | very close to home.

00:35:43.840 | My mom had to go to work.

00:35:45.120 | - Yeah, and she'd been out of the job force

00:35:47.320 | for 20 years, 30 years.

00:35:48.600 | - Yeah, forever.

00:35:49.440 | And it's those kinds of things that,

00:35:53.400 | like you referred to,

00:35:54.640 | is there are people who believe in insurance

00:35:58.000 | and there's people who have insurance

00:35:59.480 | because someone talked them into it.

00:36:01.480 | So there's always gonna be that separation.

00:36:03.960 | But you're right, people who believe in insurance

00:36:06.080 | understand what it's really used for

00:36:08.560 | and what good it can do for people.

00:36:11.200 | Those are the people who you're gonna be able

00:36:12.960 | to have the good conversation with

00:36:14.440 | and they're gonna listen

00:36:15.360 | and you're gonna direct them in the right thing.

00:36:18.540 | And you are right about the buy term and invest the rest.

00:36:22.920 | You would have been a great A.L. Williams rep back in the day.

00:36:25.600 | - I'm gonna get him on the show one of these days.

00:36:27.200 | I really, he lives here in Palm Beach.

00:36:28.920 | I'm gonna get him on the show.

00:36:30.520 | - But that's a great concept.

00:36:33.400 | There's nothing wrong with that concept.

00:36:35.760 | But like you referred to,

00:36:37.080 | it's how many people actually do it.

00:36:39.640 | And honestly, I would have to guess

00:36:41.920 | maybe 1% would actually do that.

00:36:45.680 | Because if you're young, you don't have the money,

00:36:48.560 | so you'll say, okay, I'm gonna buy this inexpensive term

00:36:51.160 | and I'm gonna, my idea is in five years

00:36:53.440 | I'll be able to start that investment side.

00:36:55.600 | And then you maybe forget about it

00:36:57.160 | or things don't go exactly.

00:36:58.720 | I mean, let's face it,

00:36:59.560 | things don't always go exactly as we planned them.

00:37:02.760 | So you come up short on that investment side

00:37:04.960 | and then, like you said, as you get older,

00:37:06.800 | you're like, hey, I've got this insurance in place

00:37:08.720 | so my loved ones are taken care of

00:37:11.200 | and I've got this money right now.

00:37:13.200 | I wanna bigger house, country club, boat,

00:37:16.720 | motorcycle, whatever it might be.

00:37:19.640 | And you just never get to that investment side of it.

00:37:23.880 | - Yeah.

00:37:24.720 | The challenge, it's funny,

00:37:28.520 | on the by term and best the difference.

00:37:30.920 | One of the things I've been learning

00:37:32.240 | as I've grown older and matured,

00:37:34.400 | and I learned this a lot with clients,

00:37:36.000 | but I realized that when I was younger

00:37:38.080 | I was very intrigued by concepts

00:37:40.880 | and I wanted to be right.

00:37:42.560 | And so I would always pick the right idea

00:37:45.360 | and often I wouldn't actually follow through.

00:37:47.640 | So it's like, well, I know this is the right thing to do

00:37:49.800 | so because I know this is the right thing to do,

00:37:52.320 | I've done it.

00:37:53.160 | Well, no, not necessarily.

00:37:55.920 | You have to actually follow through and do it.

00:37:58.320 | And I'm not the only one.

00:38:00.000 | A lot of people do that,

00:38:01.320 | is we know the right thing to do

00:38:03.440 | but we haven't actually done it.

00:38:05.660 | So we know, oh, I'm gonna get rich

00:38:07.080 | 'cause I invest in stocks.

00:38:08.200 | Well, wait a second, have I actually sat down

00:38:10.200 | and reviewed my portfolio?

00:38:11.400 | Have I actually sat down and figured out

00:38:12.920 | how much I'm setting aside?

00:38:14.000 | Have I actually done some calculations

00:38:16.000 | of how much this is gonna be worth?

00:38:17.840 | Or am I just fooling myself by making myself feel good

00:38:21.240 | because I know the right thing to do?

00:38:23.600 | So it's an interesting debate.

00:38:27.280 | I wanna go back to underwriting.

00:38:29.960 | Talk to me about drugs and life insurance.

00:38:35.080 | - Well, I'm currently not taking any.

00:38:36.880 | (both laughing)

00:38:39.540 | You know, the drug situation is interesting.

00:38:43.180 | Up until about five years ago,

00:38:46.820 | it had gotten actually quite easy to underwrite alcoholism,

00:38:51.580 | drug addictions, things like that.

00:38:53.780 | Now it's twice as hard.

00:38:55.520 | - Why?

00:38:56.360 | - I think there are more people more prone

00:39:00.540 | to wanting to try things.

00:39:02.540 | And you've got a basis of young kids now

00:39:05.720 | who have more access to things.

00:39:08.360 | And there's so many different drugs out there

00:39:11.960 | and people are like, well, I'm gonna try this

00:39:13.520 | and see what happens.

00:39:14.800 | And the unfortunate thing

00:39:17.400 | that we've learned through underwriting,

00:39:19.080 | and some of the good things that come out of underwriting,

00:39:21.400 | by the way, that do help is we find out trends.

00:39:26.400 | Trends circulate through the insurance business

00:39:28.480 | just as much as they do anywhere else.

00:39:30.200 | And we're actually pretty good at predicting

00:39:32.940 | what's gonna happen with different things.

00:39:36.180 | And unfortunately, 80% of people

00:39:40.460 | who go through a 30-day rehab relapse within three years.

00:39:44.100 | - Wow.

00:39:45.260 | - So, you know, the rehabs are great.

00:39:47.700 | I'm not poo-pooing on a rehab.

00:39:51.260 | If you need it, use it.

00:39:53.200 | Good thing, but it usually takes people three times

00:39:56.360 | to finally, and that's if you're the kind of person

00:39:59.500 | who really has it in you to wanna quit,

00:40:03.500 | then it's like two to three times it takes

00:40:07.240 | for that to happen.

00:40:08.700 | And the companies know this.

00:40:10.260 | You know, we've seen it.

00:40:11.300 | So when you get somebody who just came out of rehab,

00:40:13.880 | they're in their early to mid-30s,

00:40:16.080 | they're probably gonna relapse.

00:40:20.380 | So it then comes down to what were they doing before

00:40:22.660 | because they're probably gonna step it up a notch

00:40:24.940 | when they do it again.

00:40:26.620 | - What about, is there a difference

00:40:27.940 | between marijuana and other drugs

00:40:30.500 | from the perspective of life insurance underwriting?

00:40:33.020 | - So the interesting thing about marijuana

00:40:35.180 | is the legalization of it anywhere

00:40:39.060 | has not changed the underwriting process.

00:40:42.200 | However, if you're a casual user,

00:40:46.100 | the insurance companies almost ignore it.

00:40:48.200 | You know, they've really taken on the idea

00:40:50.780 | that it's not a terrible thing to do once in a while.

00:40:53.540 | - Right.

00:40:54.380 | - And they're looking at it as alcohol.

00:40:56.580 | They think the same thing with alcohol.

00:40:58.380 | If you're having a couple beers on the weekends,

00:41:00.380 | you have a glass of wine every night,

00:41:02.500 | that's not the worst thing ever.

00:41:03.900 | We're fine with that.

00:41:05.620 | It's the people who go to extremes

00:41:08.100 | that they're looking for.

00:41:09.020 | So the worst thing you get on casual marijuana use

00:41:12.520 | in insurance underwriting currently

00:41:14.040 | is you might get a smoker rate.

00:41:15.940 | You know, they're gonna get you for the smoking part.

00:41:18.700 | So, but again, here's where we come down

00:41:22.380 | to admitted or not admitted.

00:41:24.220 | People are afraid to admit it

00:41:25.380 | because it's technically illegal.

00:41:27.340 | - Can't count the number of times.

00:41:29.460 | Well, I'll take the medical exam in two weeks.

00:41:32.140 | - Right.

00:41:32.980 | - Here we go.

00:41:33.940 | - Exactly.

00:41:35.040 | So, you know, but you have to convince somebody to admit it

00:41:39.100 | because it is an illegal activity.

00:41:40.660 | So people are afraid to put that down in writing.

00:41:42.740 | - Right, understandably so.

00:41:44.180 | - Yeah, but what they have to understand

00:41:46.120 | is the insurance company is not looking to call a DEA

00:41:49.020 | and say, hey, listen, I've got, you know,

00:41:50.960 | this stack of people, you know, over here.

00:41:54.140 | - Send them over, they've tested positive for THC.

00:41:56.340 | - So, you know, they're not doing that,

00:41:58.420 | but admitting it is the first thing

00:42:00.860 | because if you don't admit it and we find out about it,

00:42:03.740 | whether through testing or MIB, whatever the source may be,

00:42:08.740 | you're gonna get declined for not admitting it.

00:42:12.460 | But so the casual marijuana use

00:42:15.000 | is treated somewhat like casual alcohol use.

00:42:18.820 | Obviously, cocaine use is a no-no.

00:42:22.260 | You know, that's gonna get you an auto decline

00:42:23.820 | and that's gonna be at least for two years

00:42:25.300 | from the last time you used.

00:42:26.780 | Alcoholism, ironically, a lot of people who get DUIs,

00:42:33.020 | companies will give you one DUI usually,

00:42:36.060 | but they still won't underwrite you for two years,

00:42:37.900 | but they'll give you one without totally

00:42:39.500 | holding it over your head.

00:42:41.080 | What they don't like to see is people who go to rehab

00:42:44.320 | to get out of their DUI

00:42:45.780 | because then you're admitting you're an alcoholic

00:42:49.740 | and you're postponed for even longer for going to rehab.

00:42:53.220 | - Interesting.

00:42:54.260 | - So it's a catch-22.

00:42:55.700 | It might get you leniency on your DUI,

00:42:59.060 | but it's gonna get you tougher underwriting

00:43:01.940 | if you went through rehab.

00:43:02.980 | - I had a buddy of mine, had a DUI,

00:43:05.240 | and he had talked about, he didn't really need insurance,

00:43:08.780 | but he, maybe I, you know, whatever.

00:43:11.140 | You know, I might buy some insurance.

00:43:12.580 | It's cheap, didn't really need it.

00:43:14.280 | Had a DUI.

00:43:16.500 | Thank goodness.

00:43:18.620 | Well, you know, I didn't really need it.

00:43:20.580 | Just let it go.

00:43:21.400 | There was no point in it.

00:43:22.500 | I think it was the two years passed

00:43:24.340 | and he got insurance and I got another DUI.

00:43:28.820 | And I was so thankful that he had just gone ahead

00:43:32.300 | and, you know, single guy, and he's like,

00:43:34.860 | ah, whatever, it's 25 bucks a month.

00:43:36.700 | It makes me feel good.

00:43:37.620 | I got a million dollars of insurance.

00:43:39.060 | It helps Joshua, sells a policy.

00:43:40.980 | I didn't push him on it.

00:43:42.220 | He just said, hey, if you wanna do it,

00:43:43.360 | I think it's a good plan.

00:43:44.760 | But thankfully he got it locked in for the second one.

00:43:47.700 | - That's a good story because after the second one,

00:43:51.020 | it would have been very difficult.

00:43:52.140 | - Yep.

00:43:52.980 | - Yeah, it's a tough situation then.

00:43:54.820 | But yeah, I mean, again,

00:43:58.000 | it comes down to each person's situation.

00:44:01.780 | - Lifestyle choices regarding sports, flying.

00:44:05.740 | Do you have companies that you go to?

00:44:08.100 | Just explain how does flying and private pilot,

00:44:10.820 | that kind of stuff, work from an underwriting perspective.

00:44:13.140 | - Totally opposite of what people think it does.

00:44:15.540 | The more you fly, the better we are with it.

00:44:19.640 | And people don't understand that.

00:44:22.680 | But it's the occasional weekend warrior flyer

00:44:27.120 | that we don't want.

00:44:28.520 | 'Cause those are the guys who don't have as much training.

00:44:31.860 | They don't have as many hours behind the stick.

00:44:34.480 | And they're apt to take more chances

00:44:36.040 | than a normal pilot would.

00:44:38.180 | Or someone who's doing it on a more regular basis.

00:44:41.880 | So what the companies usually look for

00:44:44.160 | is instrument flight rating.

00:44:45.600 | They love it.

00:44:46.420 | You don't have to have it,

00:44:47.260 | but if you have it, that's just a,

00:44:49.660 | that kind of glosses over anything else

00:44:52.340 | they may be looking at.

00:44:54.120 | 300 hours of experience with at least

00:44:57.760 | 75 to 100 hours a year flying

00:45:00.120 | is usually not even a rateable instance.

00:45:03.800 | As long as you're only flying in the US.

00:45:05.640 | You're not making low level trips to the Bahamas

00:45:08.840 | or Mexico or something like that,

00:45:10.800 | then you're okay.

00:45:12.600 | But it's the people who don't fly much

00:45:15.240 | who just got their pilot's license for giggles

00:45:19.560 | and they fly once or twice a year.

00:45:22.080 | Those are the people who are gonna have a hard time

00:45:23.440 | getting coverage or you're gonna pay a flat extra for it.

00:45:26.600 | - Racing.

00:45:27.440 | - Depends on the racing.

00:45:30.640 | If it's sanctioned racing, it's usually not a big issue.

00:45:33.920 | - Sanctioned, you mean like--

00:45:35.080 | - Like NASCAR, Indy, those kinds of people.

00:45:38.200 | But I will tell you that those kinds of people

00:45:40.440 | don't buy insurance.

00:45:41.480 | - What do you mean?

00:45:43.560 | - Because they're risk takers and--

00:45:45.160 | - They just don't care.

00:45:46.000 | - They're looking for the thrill

00:45:46.840 | and they really don't do it.

00:45:48.560 | We get very few professional drivers at all.

00:45:53.560 | And we hear about it through the industry.

00:45:55.760 | So we'll know if people are doing it or not.

00:45:58.200 | And not many of them ever apply for insurance.

00:46:01.360 | - So it is interesting.

00:46:04.600 | But it's usually, again, it's the weekend warrior

00:46:07.760 | drag racers who wanna go up to West Palm Beach,

00:46:10.160 | go to Moroso and drive their really fast car

00:46:13.600 | down the quarter mile and kill themselves in it.

00:46:15.680 | Those are the guys who have a hard time getting coverage.

00:46:18.400 | The actual NASCAR guys probably wouldn't be

00:46:20.080 | that big of a deal overall.

00:46:22.120 | But there are times, what you have to remember

00:46:25.880 | is you look at the higher point NASCAR guys.

00:46:29.160 | There's also just thousands and thousands of guys

00:46:32.500 | who are racing dirt track, Enduro bikes,

00:46:36.600 | different things like that.

00:46:37.600 | And those are usually flat extra.

00:46:39.800 | - I never placed a racing case.

00:46:41.160 | I just never came across a driver

00:46:43.240 | who was racing, so it's interesting.

00:46:46.520 | - Again, most people who are thrill takers

00:46:49.640 | do not buy insurance, buy life insurance.

00:46:53.000 | We get very few skydivers.

00:46:54.520 | Skydiving is one that is, if you're doing it a lot,

00:46:57.200 | it is a rateable situation.

00:47:00.440 | But we don't get many.

00:47:02.720 | Down here in Florida, we get mostly scuba divers.

00:47:05.400 | And unless you're going past 100 feet,

00:47:07.160 | they don't consider that risky at all.

00:47:08.720 | And again, it's not a rateable situation.

00:47:12.160 | Any others?

00:47:13.000 | I'm trying to think back to the insurance applications.

00:47:14.840 | In the last two years, I can't even remember

00:47:17.320 | the special anymore, but any other

00:47:20.960 | avocation kind of stuff?

00:47:22.680 | - I don't think so.

00:47:23.520 | I think we've covered it.

00:47:24.340 | You do get the crazy people who do those

00:47:25.920 | ultra light flying.

00:47:28.600 | I don't know whoever discovered that putting

00:47:30.200 | a parachute onto a big fan would be

00:47:33.560 | something I don't want to do.

00:47:35.800 | I'm like, I think I'll stay away from that activity.

00:47:41.280 | That's really about it for avocation.

00:47:42.840 | You don't find much more.

00:47:44.900 | Back in the day, we actually insured a couple

00:47:48.800 | of professional wrestlers.

00:47:50.400 | - Really?

00:47:51.220 | - Hulk Hogan and Sergeant Slaughter

00:47:52.920 | were two of our clients that we had coverage on

00:47:56.000 | at one point.

00:47:57.440 | - Nice.

00:47:58.840 | - And again, that really wasn't impaired risk,

00:48:01.560 | impaired risk.

00:48:02.400 | It was just more like, hey, these guys could

00:48:04.800 | have a little trauma here and there

00:48:08.320 | and we'll take care of them.

00:48:10.040 | But that's really about it.

00:48:13.680 | - So I want to go back to, as we start to wrap up here,

00:48:18.280 | I want to go back to the topic of policy design.

00:48:22.640 | Over the years, so you have an interesting position

00:48:28.280 | of kind of this bird's eye view, working with

00:48:30.040 | a bunch of agents and passing things through.

00:48:33.200 | What would you say, as far as number of policies,

00:48:35.160 | if you were going to guess, what percentage

00:48:37.400 | of your cases are term, universal life, whole life?

00:48:41.280 | - Currently, 50% term, 30 to 35% universal life

00:48:48.400 | and about 15% whole life.

00:48:51.880 | - Any gut feeling on how that's different

00:48:55.880 | than 15 years ago?

00:48:57.660 | - Well, 15 years ago, it would have been

00:49:01.960 | a little heavier stack on whole life,

00:49:05.760 | less on term, so it'd probably be, I would say,

00:49:08.240 | maybe 40% term and then 60% mixture of whole life

00:49:13.240 | and UL.

00:49:15.160 | - How do you see, so I'll tell you my concern

00:49:19.040 | with universal life, feel free to disagree.

00:49:22.040 | I'm not looking for a yes answer, I'm just curious.

00:49:24.240 | Here's my concern with universal life.

00:49:26.140 | My observation working with clients has been

00:49:29.560 | that almost everybody who sits through

00:49:33.440 | a life insurance presentation loves some sort

00:49:36.280 | of cash value policy.

00:49:37.780 | However, they don't love whole life premiums.

00:49:43.560 | They love term premiums, but they love cash values

00:49:47.380 | and so you slide in a nice universal life policy

00:49:50.860 | and say, well, this gets cash values

00:49:52.960 | and it has lower premiums.

00:49:56.300 | And my concern here is about the potential conflict

00:49:58.760 | of interest on the side of the agent

00:50:00.680 | because if I know, yeah, 1,000 bucks a year for term,

00:50:03.480 | 10,000 bucks a year for whole life,

00:50:06.080 | but you can't afford 10, but you can afford

00:50:07.820 | a little more than 1,000, I have an incentive

00:50:11.240 | to talk you into something that's gonna be three to four.

00:50:15.160 | And there's a substantial increase in my commission there

00:50:17.600 | for doing so and now I've introduced

00:50:21.000 | the most complicated insurance product that exists

00:50:24.180 | to somebody who doesn't get insurance in general,

00:50:29.120 | let alone the specifics of how to properly manage

00:50:32.000 | a universal life insurance contract.

00:50:34.320 | So I get really concerned about that in the industry

00:50:37.760 | and I get really concerned just about the clients

00:50:40.760 | not understanding it.

00:50:42.720 | Do you think I'm right as far as that there's a potential

00:50:47.520 | and the reality of agents abusing it a little bit

00:50:51.420 | or do you think that, well, people just,

00:50:54.560 | what's your thought on that?

00:50:58.160 | - I agree with what you're saying.

00:50:59.600 | I think you're on the right track.

00:51:01.440 | And the problem with universal life right now

00:51:06.440 | is that about 10 years ago, and it might be

00:51:09.980 | a little more than that, the company's got the great idea

00:51:13.200 | to guarantee universal life.

00:51:14.920 | And what it started out as was what they called

00:51:19.080 | secondary guarantee, universal life.

00:51:22.680 | So you got a return on your premium,

00:51:25.000 | you got some cash value, but you also had

00:51:27.640 | a guaranteed element in there.

00:51:29.400 | Well, as time went on, they realized that the people

00:51:32.720 | who were buying the guarantee ULs

00:51:34.200 | didn't care about the cash value.

00:51:36.120 | All that they were looking for was what I call now

00:51:38.740 | lifetime term insurance, which is what the guarantee UL

00:51:41.760 | is of this day.

00:51:43.580 | So for the longest time, we had to transition everybody

00:51:47.740 | to, okay, universal life is no longer used for cash value.

00:51:51.680 | It's really just used for this higher term premium

00:51:55.240 | guarantee scenario.

00:51:56.920 | And a few companies still had current assumption products

00:52:00.680 | that would return, but they had maybe a five year

00:52:03.200 | guarantee in them.

00:52:04.040 | And you can't sell anybody anything that's only got

00:52:05.980 | a five year guarantee in it, I'm sorry.

00:52:07.520 | It just isn't ever gonna work out for anyone.

00:52:10.780 | So,

00:52:12.500 | they then decided about seven years ago,

00:52:17.960 | I think I saw the first indexed universal life contract.

00:52:21.400 | So basically what you're gonna see now

00:52:23.720 | is if anybody's showing anyone any kind of a policy,

00:52:27.920 | a universal life policy with cash in it,

00:52:30.040 | it's probably gonna be an index.

00:52:32.200 | And while these products don't actually participate

00:52:36.880 | directly in the index, the S&P 500 index

00:52:40.560 | is what they're using to show the returns

00:52:42.440 | that the client could possibly get.

00:52:44.200 | The situation comes down to where

00:52:51.280 | it's just very tough to show any kind of return

00:52:55.080 | in any kind of universal life contract anymore.

00:52:57.600 | The whole life I think is great

00:53:01.840 | because there's usually a dividend attached to it.

00:53:05.560 | And when you can participate in the company doing better,

00:53:09.220 | and you're getting some kind of a kickback,

00:53:11.200 | that's the cash you have to go.

00:53:12.940 | But there's definitely people pushing the UL

00:53:15.240 | into the wrong places.

00:53:17.040 | Index UL for instance is good for sales

00:53:19.320 | up to probably age 45 to 50.

00:53:22.160 | And what's scary to me going to more direct

00:53:24.640 | to what you were talking about is that

00:53:26.160 | when I get a guy who calls me and says,

00:53:27.560 | "Hey, I've got a 65 year old, I wanna look at index UL."

00:53:31.880 | And I'm like--

00:53:33.680 | - How do you make the numbers work?

00:53:34.880 | They just don't work.

00:53:35.840 | - They don't.

00:53:36.680 | But they wanna look at that.

00:53:39.680 | They're like, "This is what I wanna show my client."

00:53:41.920 | And as much as I, you know, I don't wanna tell a guy

00:53:45.400 | what to go out and sell his client

00:53:46.540 | because I don't know his client personally.

00:53:48.720 | But I do know the concepts

00:53:50.320 | and what these products were developed for.

00:53:53.400 | And that's not what they were developed for.

00:53:55.180 | So what scares me is that they're just being used

00:53:57.200 | the wrong way.

00:53:58.760 | And, you know, you made a comment,

00:54:02.280 | and I hope you don't mind if I call you on it.

00:54:04.120 | But you're like, you said, you know,

00:54:06.420 | if I've got somebody who's looking at 10,000

00:54:09.200 | a whole life premium and obviously can't afford it,

00:54:11.700 | they can afford $1,000 a premium,

00:54:13.480 | I can probably push them to the three or four.

00:54:16.840 | That might be the issue right there.

00:54:18.320 | And that's exactly what happens though.

00:54:20.280 | Because I think it's what happens.

00:54:22.360 | And my point was that when,

00:54:24.760 | if you are an effective agent,

00:54:27.960 | if you are effective at sales,

00:54:32.520 | you can create a desire for the results.

00:54:36.720 | That's what I mean is that you can create the desire

00:54:38.960 | for the $10,000 policy.

00:54:41.480 | And that, but you need $10,000

00:54:43.920 | to properly fund that policy.

00:54:46.000 | And what I mean by that is somebody is saying,

00:54:48.080 | well, I can buy 1,000 of term,

00:54:50.600 | but I can scratch around and come up with a couple thousand.

00:54:53.480 | And I hate that conflict of interest that's there.

00:54:56.680 | Where you say, well, okay, this policy,

00:54:58.680 | it's not gonna last forever,

00:55:00.460 | but it's gonna last you for 34 years.

00:55:02.680 | Well, meanwhile, 34 years later, the agent is gone.

00:55:05.160 | Clients are 22 years later, the client's sitting there,

00:55:07.640 | and they got a new agent.

00:55:08.640 | And I've been in this situation,

00:55:09.760 | I'm sure you have many times,

00:55:10.920 | and you're sitting here reviewing an in-force illustration

00:55:13.160 | saying, well, your policy got about 12 more years.

00:55:16.360 | No, it's supposed to last forever.

00:55:18.440 | Well, your recommended premiums were $9,822,

00:55:23.000 | and you've been paying $3,000 a year.

00:55:25.240 | Oh, and you're that part of the curve

00:55:27.440 | where the rates start going up.

00:55:29.080 | And it's, I just, that's my issue, like,

00:55:34.080 | with UL.

00:55:36.960 | It's not that it's not incredibly useful.

00:55:38.800 | I mean, you can, if somebody's sophisticated

00:55:40.880 | and understands it, there's nothing wrong with the concept.

00:55:44.440 | But who, you know, you need a sophisticated client,

00:55:48.000 | and frankly, we don't have many of them.

00:55:50.080 | - Right, and what you wanna look at, too,

00:55:52.180 | is that that's the fallacy with a flexible premium contract.

00:55:56.800 | When you go into it showing that you really need $5,000

00:56:00.400 | to fund this policy, but if you have a bad year,

00:56:03.420 | you can put 2,500 in, what's your client

00:56:06.200 | gonna walk away with?

00:56:07.080 | They're gonna remember, hey, you know what?

00:56:08.360 | I can pay 2,500, I'm still gonna have this policy.

00:56:10.960 | But like you said, 20 years from now,

00:56:13.160 | you come back and all of a sudden,

00:56:14.320 | they find out there's no cash.

00:56:16.280 | You know, they put all this money in,

00:56:17.920 | even if it was only 2,500, that's still a lot of money

00:56:20.160 | a year to put into a policy.

00:56:21.960 | They put that money in and they're getting nothing,

00:56:23.800 | and they might even lose their coverage

00:56:25.400 | in five to 12 years.

00:56:27.640 | You know, that's the fallacy

00:56:29.200 | with a flexible premium product.

00:56:31.140 | But it's also, I think, as agents, we need to remember.

00:56:36.140 | 'Cause even though I don't sell, you know,

00:56:39.320 | I'm not out there selling personally,

00:56:40.680 | I am a licensed agent, and I do care

00:56:43.560 | about the people we're helping.

00:56:44.880 | - Absolutely.

00:56:45.720 | - And that's what you've gotta think of first,

00:56:47.280 | because if you've got someone who's dangling by a thread

00:56:51.200 | and saying, I can pay $1,000, well, you know what?

00:56:54.720 | For the next three years, find them something

00:56:57.460 | that they can pay $1,000 into so that it stays on the books,

00:57:01.160 | and it stays in their life.

00:57:03.440 | Because again, if you sell them the $4,000 option

00:57:06.240 | and they've gotta come up with the other three somewhere,

00:57:09.080 | how long are they gonna wanna do that?

00:57:10.800 | Or when Jimmy needs braces, where's that $3,000 gonna go?

00:57:14.840 | It's gonna go to braces.

00:57:15.880 | It's not gonna go into a life insurance policy.

00:57:18.540 | So don't strap people as if their insurance

00:57:20.880 | is just another bill to pay.

00:57:22.880 | Their insurance has gotta be part of their planning process,

00:57:25.280 | and I think that's where some people lose sight.

00:57:27.600 | Or some people don't care.

00:57:28.800 | I hate to say it that way, but there's just some--

00:57:30.400 | - There are.

00:57:31.240 | - There are people who don't care.

00:57:32.060 | - I don't know what the percentage is,

00:57:32.920 | but there's scumbags in every business.

00:57:35.000 | It's interesting.

00:57:37.140 | I learned the hard way myself.

00:57:39.600 | When I started selling insurance,

00:57:41.780 | I'm a very excited person, and so I worked on,

00:57:46.920 | okay, how can I be a great salesperson?

00:57:49.360 | And one of the things I learned was with good intention,

00:57:53.000 | I wasn't being necessarily intentionally evil.

00:57:58.000 | I wasn't trying to do something.

00:57:59.780 | But I was so excited about painting the picture

00:58:02.440 | for the person that I learned

00:58:04.640 | that I was sometimes too persuasive.

00:58:07.140 | And then I would have a client who six months later,

00:58:09.800 | they felt really good.

00:58:11.140 | They didn't have buyer's remorse the next day

00:58:13.420 | or the next week or the next month,

00:58:15.280 | but the problem was I had overcommitted them

00:58:17.960 | to whatever it was that they were doing,

00:58:19.800 | the amount of money to their IRA

00:58:21.000 | or the amount of money in their life insurance policy.

00:58:23.120 | And then all of a sudden, I had a series of clients,

00:58:25.860 | and okay, Joshua, I gotta cash out the IRA.

00:58:28.080 | No, I gotta cancel the policy.

00:58:30.320 | No.

00:58:31.160 | - Right.

00:58:32.000 | - And I just, I hated that.

00:58:34.200 | Because I felt responsible because they were behind.

00:58:39.200 | Whether it was if it was insurance,

00:58:41.040 | they was too soon, and we hadn't even caught up with costs,

00:58:45.520 | policy inception costs, commissions, and all that stuff yet.

00:58:48.080 | Or if it was IRAs, we're taking tax money out,

00:58:51.160 | and they're behind the curve.

00:58:52.720 | And I learned to be myself less persuasive

00:58:57.080 | because I needed to avoid getting the client excited

00:59:00.160 | and saying, yeah, I'll write big checks to my future.

00:59:03.400 | Where's the investment?

00:59:04.720 | And I had to actually change my mindset

00:59:07.600 | and be a little bit more relaxed and say,

00:59:09.400 | okay, I know you're excited now.

00:59:10.840 | Let's start with less or put some money into a side fund,

00:59:14.080 | and let's come back in six months,

00:59:15.660 | and six months, and six months.

00:59:18.000 | Which was the exact opposite of what I thought

00:59:20.640 | was gonna be my approach when I started studying sales.

00:59:23.400 | - Well, the good thing about your process

00:59:26.760 | is you learn from it.

00:59:27.680 | - Yeah.

00:59:28.520 | - There's a lot of people who don't,

00:59:29.700 | or again, they just don't care to learn from it.

00:59:32.160 | And I think that could be the hurtful side for the client,

00:59:37.120 | is you definitely want somebody who cares.

00:59:39.920 | And I think that's what planners in general

00:59:42.000 | have to remember is treat everyone like

00:59:45.280 | they're your mom or your dad.

00:59:46.920 | I mean, would you do that to your mom or your dad?

00:59:48.640 | And if you wouldn't, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it

00:59:50.480 | with these people.

00:59:51.520 | And take that concept a little more broadly.

00:59:54.280 | And you're much better off to keep things on the books.

00:59:59.180 | And believe me, most people who you help

01:00:03.300 | will remember that later on when you come back

01:00:05.420 | for policy reviews or for future sales,

01:00:08.520 | or when they need something,

01:00:09.900 | and they feel that they wanna come to you,

01:00:12.300 | they're gonna come to you then.

01:00:14.300 | - What do you see as the future of the career

01:00:16.620 | of the life insurance agent?

01:00:18.060 | - Career agents are hurting.

01:00:23.900 | It's not a great time to be a career agent.

01:00:27.460 | And I don't say that to be a negative.

01:00:31.260 | I think it's the reality.

01:00:33.300 | Most companies who used to recruit agents

01:00:38.100 | and work with them and help them build their business

01:00:41.540 | and really give them a platform to be successful

01:00:46.240 | are few and far between.

01:00:47.440 | I'm not gonna name names.

01:00:50.860 | There's a couple of companies who do still do that

01:00:54.260 | and do a really good job at that.

01:00:56.820 | There are companies who are currently

01:00:59.500 | only recruiting top of the table

01:01:01.660 | MDRT qualifying agents right now.

01:01:03.940 | If you don't qualify at least MDRT,

01:01:07.260 | you could lose your job.

01:01:09.100 | You could be an agent for 20 years

01:01:11.020 | and you just went along, you never cared about MDRT.

01:01:14.020 | You were like, hey, I'm good with this,

01:01:15.540 | where I'm at with this, I'm helping people, I'm doing it.

01:01:17.620 | You can find yourself an independent pretty quick.

01:01:20.580 | The companies just aren't training

01:01:22.800 | and they don't wanna put the effort into training

01:01:25.060 | and recruiting newer people

01:01:26.980 | and helping them grow a business.

01:01:29.100 | Again, there's still a couple of companies out there

01:01:31.260 | that are doing a really good job,

01:01:32.540 | but here locally I know the talk is

01:01:35.560 | people are cross-recruiting

01:01:37.820 | and trying to pull agents away from other companies

01:01:40.620 | that already have their book of business

01:01:42.020 | and that's what they wanna look at.

01:01:44.160 | So the unfortunate side of that is there's different,

01:01:47.480 | I don't know if you would call them companies,

01:01:51.280 | but there's different resources out there

01:01:53.340 | for agents to learn and to be taught,

01:01:56.140 | but they're fairly expensive.

01:01:58.260 | They're not hands-on where you have a mentor

01:02:00.620 | in the office you can go to,

01:02:02.380 | so it makes being an independent really tough.

01:02:05.300 | But that's the way a lot of guys

01:02:06.500 | are gonna probably have to go.

01:02:08.720 | And that's when a decent,

01:02:11.340 | having some decent background

01:02:12.860 | and knowing what you're doing,

01:02:14.740 | hopefully you can get that in

01:02:16.220 | before something else happens.

01:02:19.460 | But that's how I see it.

01:02:22.100 | I know the internet and you can go online

01:02:26.060 | and buy insurance and you can do those different things.

01:02:28.460 | I never, I still don't believe

01:02:30.740 | that's gonna take away from the career agent.

01:02:33.620 | You're gonna always get people

01:02:35.140 | who are kind of like buying small policies

01:02:37.260 | that you can't live selling anyway,

01:02:40.140 | but I still think the relationship side of the business

01:02:42.820 | and being a good agent and caring about your clients

01:02:45.260 | is what's gonna keep things going for guys.

01:02:49.220 | - I just don't see how,

01:02:50.380 | and I know we've talked about this privately, you and I,

01:02:53.580 | I don't see, when you have a little bit of experience

01:03:01.300 | and you start to see all the ways that can go wrong,

01:03:04.420 | I feel, so it's been almost a year now

01:03:07.560 | that I've been out of the day-to-day,

01:03:08.860 | I feel like I'm losing touch.

01:03:10.940 | There have been so many changes

01:03:12.360 | and I feel like I'm losing touch

01:03:13.700 | with change in the marketplace.

01:03:15.620 | And yes, somebody who's completely healthy

01:03:19.860 | and not a single issue whatsoever,

01:03:24.820 | no risk factors at all, just kind of says,

01:03:27.900 | "I'll buy 20 times my income of life insurance."

01:03:31.060 | They can, you can go online

01:03:32.340 | to whatever term, lifeinsurance.com

01:03:34.180 | or whatever version of it is,

01:03:36.500 | plunk the numbers in, blah, blah, blah,

01:03:39.260 | and that 20-year term, it's probably gonna be fine.

01:03:42.180 | Chances are it's an A-rated company,

01:03:43.980 | chances it's a cheap policy, pay the premium,

01:03:46.340 | it's probably gonna be fine, probably.

01:03:49.460 | But you change any factor at all.

01:03:51.900 | And I don't see any way that the average consumer

01:03:54.460 | is gonna be effectively able to negotiate that maze

01:03:58.540 | without somebody to hold their hands.

01:04:02.300 | And I don't see how many of the companies

01:04:07.180 | that advertise, as far as the brokerage agencies,

01:04:09.580 | I don't see how they can train people who answer the phone

01:04:14.580 | with the depth of knowledge that they need

01:04:17.900 | to give a really professional answer.

01:04:20.140 | And so my problem is that I empathize and understand

01:04:23.860 | with the people who don't wanna be life insurance agents

01:04:26.220 | 'cause I didn't wanna be a life insurance agent.

01:04:28.860 | When I started 23 years old in 2008,

01:04:32.180 | what 23-year-old in 2008 says,

01:04:33.860 | "I'm gonna go be a life insurance agent."

01:04:35.780 | - Exactly.

01:04:36.620 | - It was just a means to an end for me

01:04:37.900 | to become the Mr. Financial Planner.

01:04:40.540 | But now that I see the value, I could go the other way

01:04:43.140 | and I could happily just do life insurance

01:04:45.100 | because of the value there.

01:04:46.560 | But I don't see that message being talked about

01:04:48.740 | in the industry and it really concerns me.

01:04:51.220 | - Yeah, it really isn't a message that's out there

01:04:54.140 | for any of us.

01:04:56.060 | Everybody wants assets under management,

01:05:00.100 | is a big word I hear constantly.

01:05:02.060 | They wanna know, "What are your assets under management?

01:05:06.140 | "How much wealth planning are you doing?"

01:05:09.020 | And things like that.

01:05:10.340 | And to me, it all kinda goes together.

01:05:12.740 | I mean, wealth planning is great, that's perfect.

01:05:15.100 | If you've got the clients who are doing that.

01:05:17.680 | But there's probably an insurance need there too.

01:05:19.820 | And if you have other clients that you have access to

01:05:23.600 | that maybe don't have that wealth

01:05:25.000 | and just need the insurance planning,

01:05:26.960 | that's where it oughta be.

01:05:28.260 | Yeah, I don't understand it either.

01:05:30.800 | The interesting thing I find about the online buying,

01:05:34.840 | I've actually listened to some conversations

01:05:37.280 | in different places and I never tell people what I do

01:05:40.720 | when I'm listening to the conversations.

01:05:43.040 | But there's an opinion out there that if you go directly

01:05:47.560 | to these online places to buy your life insurance,

01:05:52.220 | that you're getting the cheapest insurance anywhere.

01:05:55.180 | - I'm glad you said that,

01:05:56.020 | 'cause I was gonna get the very next question.

01:05:57.700 | - What's interesting about that is that there's no difference

01:05:59.980 | in premium to what they're getting

01:06:01.260 | versus what I can show my agents to sell 'em

01:06:04.700 | across the board either.

01:06:06.100 | So what's happening for the companies

01:06:08.940 | is a nice thing for them,

01:06:09.880 | is that they're selling insurance policies

01:06:11.380 | without paying anyone a commission to do it.

01:06:13.660 | Or a very small commission.

01:06:15.380 | Obviously there's a money switching hands there somewhere,

01:06:19.120 | but it's probably a lot less than,

01:06:21.500 | but the client's not getting any benefit from that.

01:06:24.460 | It's not like they're getting $10 a month cheaper

01:06:27.340 | on their term insurance because they bought it online

01:06:29.700 | versus taking a half an hour to talk with an agent

01:06:32.180 | and make sure they're getting the right thing.

01:06:34.420 | - Yeah, that's exactly the,

01:06:35.720 | I'm glad you point that out,

01:06:39.140 | 'cause I think people don't realize that.

01:06:41.060 | And if I'm gonna sell a Banner Life policy,

01:06:45.860 | whether you go to termlifeinsurance.com

01:06:48.020 | and buy your 20-year Banner Life,

01:06:49.820 | or you buy it from Joshua,

01:06:52.100 | either Joshua makes his 500 bucks,

01:06:54.180 | or termlifeinsurance.com makes the 500 bucks.

01:06:56.940 | But at least with Joshua,

01:06:57.980 | you can get an hour or two or three of my time,

01:07:01.060 | and I'll make sure that,

01:07:02.780 | and help answer your questions,

01:07:04.020 | and it's not completely blind.

01:07:06.020 | It's a little better than an online calculator.

01:07:08.440 | And so, I think people don't recognize that

01:07:12.900 | and realize that.

01:07:14.100 | Do you know of any life insurance company

01:07:18.460 | that sells insurance without commissions,

01:07:22.380 | without paying somebody commissions?

01:07:24.180 | - Off the top of my head for what we do

01:07:30.340 | and the market we're in now,

01:07:32.660 | you might find that some of the smaller guarantees,

01:07:38.640 | you type products.

01:07:40.400 | - Good call.

01:07:41.600 | - There's a few companies that offer no medical questions,

01:07:45.160 | you can't be declined,

01:07:46.040 | everyone's seeing the advertisements.

01:07:48.200 | Those are probably non-commissioned products

01:07:50.120 | that are direct with the company,

01:07:51.920 | kind of a direct buy situation.

01:07:54.240 | But I don't think there's anybody

01:07:55.280 | who's doing anything substantial

01:07:56.680 | that isn't paying a commission to someone to do it.

01:08:00.000 | - So, this gets my fee-only buddies really upset

01:08:03.520 | because they're like,

01:08:04.360 | "Oh, we can do investments without commissions.

01:08:06.320 | "Why can't we do insurance without commissions

01:08:08.240 | "and stay fee-only?"

01:08:10.040 | Do you think it'll happen?

01:08:11.600 | Do you think any of the companies

01:08:13.040 | will try to work within that?

01:08:14.680 | Because that's the press that the market is pushing

01:08:17.760 | and the consumers seem to be pushing

01:08:19.320 | is towards the concept of fee-only,

01:08:20.980 | without talking about whether it's a good concept

01:08:22.640 | or not a concept.

01:08:23.480 | Can you see it happen?

01:08:25.680 | - I don't see it happening.

01:08:27.000 | I just don't see the life insurance companies

01:08:30.360 | getting to that point.

01:08:34.120 | There's a little bit of commission competitiveness

01:08:36.520 | between companies.

01:08:38.200 | And I think they get the feeling,

01:08:39.640 | whether it's right or wrong,

01:08:40.700 | that that's helping them push product.

01:08:42.760 | If you pay five points more,

01:08:46.340 | maybe somebody's gonna push your product

01:08:49.800 | over XYZ company that's paying a little bit less.

01:08:53.680 | But here at our agency,

01:08:55.680 | we're more about quality of company

01:08:57.640 | and where the need fits.

01:08:59.340 | Not to mention we're underwriting most of our cases.

01:09:01.640 | So, it's not just a cut and dry,

01:09:03.280 | hey, I'm gonna send you to company A or B.

01:09:06.040 | I've gotta look at company A through Z

01:09:08.280 | and kind of figure out where it's going.

01:09:10.180 | But I haven't personally heard any talk

01:09:13.720 | about insurance companies wanting to do life products

01:09:17.200 | on a fee-only basis.

01:09:19.080 | I'm sure it's probably getting talked about

01:09:20.560 | behind closed doors,

01:09:21.800 | but I don't see any move in that direction at this point.

01:09:24.800 | - It'd be interesting to watch.

01:09:26.360 | It'll be interesting to watch.

01:09:29.000 | I just was curious if you'd heard any scuttle.

01:09:31.280 | So, as we close,

01:09:33.640 | tell, just give the audience just a little bit of idea

01:09:38.360 | about your company and who you can serve.

01:09:40.000 | I know you're not individually working with individuals,

01:09:42.760 | so they can't necessarily call you with any life insurance.

01:09:45.520 | But if somebody's a broker,

01:09:46.960 | they can connect with you and reach out to you.

01:09:49.880 | Go ahead and--

01:09:50.720 | - Yeah, we work with brokers

01:09:52.480 | in helping them get their clients what they need.

01:09:55.360 | We don't deal directly with the public

01:09:57.280 | and I just think that's a better concept for us

01:10:00.640 | in the way that we do business.

01:10:02.480 | We'd rather deal with the agents

01:10:03.720 | who have already got their situation in place

01:10:06.080 | and kind of use us as a secondary source

01:10:08.800 | to help them get to the end.

01:10:10.680 | And that's what we do well.

01:10:12.840 | And again, the impaired risk is our primary.

01:10:15.080 | I mean, we can write anything,

01:10:16.840 | for preferred best, the highest rating there is.

01:10:20.760 | But my background is primarily impaired risk underwriting.

01:10:24.680 | So that's where I'm gonna be the strongest

01:10:27.240 | with most things.

01:10:29.000 | - And I guess I would say the one thing

01:10:30.880 | that individual consumers could do,

01:10:32.920 | if you find yourself in a situation

01:10:36.440 | where you are facing some kind of impaired risk situation,

01:10:41.200 | ask your, find a life insurance agent

01:10:43.560 | and your life insurance agent can reach out to Todd.

01:10:46.160 | And if nothing else, you know,

01:10:48.040 | Todd, you work with people from all over,

01:10:49.960 | in many companies, many independents,

01:10:52.040 | you work with dozens of companies

01:10:53.800 | and you're a good resource.

01:10:55.200 | So just ask your agent, say,

01:10:56.800 | at least reach out to this guy

01:10:58.400 | and see if you can do it.

01:10:59.640 | Because just because you get a decline in one place,

01:11:02.440 | I mean, the case that you got for me,

01:11:04.480 | we never placed it.

01:11:05.840 | But the one that just, it was early in my career

01:11:08.800 | and I didn't have a clue what to do,

01:11:10.600 | except I had this person and usually,

01:11:14.080 | usually life insurance,

01:11:17.080 | life insurance sales is an interesting business

01:11:19.480 | 'cause there's a little,

01:11:20.800 | usually a little bit of tension,

01:11:21.920 | there's a little bit of desire,

01:11:23.320 | but I don't wanna talk about it

01:11:24.320 | 'cause no one wants to get into it.

01:11:25.840 | So I remember I walked into this office one time

01:11:27.720 | and it was at a university

01:11:29.240 | and I was speaking with this lady

01:11:31.800 | and she's like, "Oh, you sell life insurance?"

01:11:33.400 | I said, "Yeah."

01:11:34.520 | And she said, "Oh, tell you what,

01:11:35.760 | "we would love to have some life insurance."

01:11:38.040 | Said, "But I gotta warn you,

01:11:39.760 | "it's for my husband and he's been declined

01:11:41.520 | "three times in the last year."

01:11:43.560 | And I said, "Oh, I'm totally wet behind the ears,

01:11:46.560 | "I don't have a clue."

01:11:47.400 | And I was like, "Well, give me the information."

01:11:49.200 | You know, super eager, well, I'll do my best.

01:11:51.320 | You know, so I write down all the information,

01:11:52.680 | I called her husband, find out what he needed

01:11:54.760 | and just what people said was,

01:11:57.080 | you know, the guys in my office, "Call Todd."

01:11:59.040 | So I called Todd and we submitted the case,

01:12:01.560 | we submitted an informal inquiry and we got an offer.

01:12:05.480 | And the cool thing about it,

01:12:07.720 | we couldn't place the case because it didn't make,

01:12:09.760 | even though it was an offer, it was still too much

01:12:11.800 | and it didn't make sense for the client.

01:12:13.920 | The need wasn't that great

01:12:15.080 | compared to the cost of the premiums.

01:12:16.520 | But it gave me a real confidence

01:12:19.860 | to feel like I knew I could add some value.

01:12:22.660 | And that was what I struggled with, was confidence

01:12:25.600 | and knowing that I added value.

01:12:27.600 | Anytime you're in a sales situation,

01:12:29.400 | you gotta know like, okay, here's why I'm worth this money.

01:12:32.360 | And I felt like, oh, I could get people insurance

01:12:35.960 | that three other agents couldn't get

01:12:37.860 | 'cause I've got Todd Simpson in my back pocket.

01:12:39.960 | So thank you.

01:12:40.800 | - I'm glad to hear that and I'm glad we could help out.

01:12:43.280 | And it is interesting, Joshua,

01:12:45.200 | because obviously not every case gets placed.

01:12:47.840 | I mean, just because we can get an offer

01:12:49.200 | doesn't mean it's gonna be affordable for somebody.

01:12:51.680 | But I like to hear that we were able to do that for you.

01:12:54.800 | And I hope it doesn't sound corny that after 31 years,

01:12:59.800 | that's my favorite part about the business

01:13:02.720 | is to have somebody tell me that I helped them.

01:13:04.820 | And I'm not gonna say it's just as good as a paycheck.

01:13:08.960 | (laughing)

01:13:09.920 | - The two together is a pretty good combination.

01:13:12.120 | - Exactly.

01:13:13.360 | I'd like to get paid and feel good.

01:13:15.120 | - Todd, thanks for coming on the show.

01:13:17.920 | I really appreciate it.

01:13:18.760 | - Anytime, I appreciate you having me.

01:13:20.180 | Thank you.

01:13:21.540 | (whooshing)

01:13:22.540 | - So now you've been behind the scenes

01:13:24.580 | of the life insurance business.

01:13:27.460 | And hopefully some of you who are younger,

01:13:29.740 | who don't think much about life insurance,

01:13:31.220 | hopefully you benefited from my talking

01:13:33.380 | about all those different disease things,

01:13:36.700 | the different special risks of medical risks,

01:13:38.980 | different occupation and avocation risks.

01:13:41.760 | That stuff matters.

01:13:43.980 | And it's a challenge to know how to express that

01:13:49.280 | because on the one hand,

01:13:51.360 | a lot of people don't really need insurance

01:13:54.000 | and you can't ever buy a ton of insurance

01:13:58.360 | just 'cause someday you might need it.

01:13:59.560 | That would be unwise.

01:14:01.320 | But yet sometimes you could be thankful

01:14:03.760 | of buying insurance before you needed it.

01:14:05.680 | I think of the story I shared in that interview

01:14:08.260 | with that friend of mine who had gotten a DUI.

01:14:10.760 | That's a big deal with insurance underwriting.

01:14:13.180 | Now, as far as where the right move is, I don't know.

01:14:17.620 | Some people are open to the idea of insurance.

01:14:20.560 | They like insurance.

01:14:22.280 | I've learned that I tend to be in that situation.

01:14:25.280 | I don't like too much insurance.

01:14:26.880 | I really don't like to spend a lot of money on premiums.

01:14:29.120 | But there are some types of insurance

01:14:30.440 | that make me feel really good.

01:14:32.400 | Again, I had life insurance before I was ever married

01:14:34.560 | because I wanted it there to support my family.

01:14:37.840 | Now, I was certainly biased

01:14:38.960 | in that I was an insurance agent.

01:14:41.400 | So was I just doing it so that I would buy into my product

01:14:46.360 | or did I really buy it because I valued it?

01:14:49.440 | Well, in the beginning, I think I was just doing it

01:14:50.880 | because I valued my product,

01:14:52.560 | but then I, excuse me, because I was trying to be consistent

01:14:55.600 | and I needed to own what I sold.

01:14:57.780 | But then I've discovered the feelings of owning it.

01:15:00.800 | And I started to have that same experience with other people.

01:15:03.480 | So I leave you free, obviously, to make your own decision.

01:15:05.640 | But consider if having a bit of an insurance plan in place

01:15:09.560 | at an earlier age might not help,

01:15:11.720 | at least something minimal.

01:15:13.200 | The way I look at it is I waste money,

01:15:15.960 | believe it or not, I waste money.

01:15:18.040 | I waste $10 here, $20 there.

01:15:20.200 | I try not to, but having $20 a month

01:15:23.880 | of term life insurance premiums in place

01:15:26.400 | to have half a million dollars of coverage

01:15:28.360 | as a young guy, to me,

01:15:30.400 | didn't really feel like that big of a problem.

01:15:33.120 | And it can open up a lot of options as time goes on.

01:15:37.680 | Hope this was useful to you.

01:15:39.480 | If any of you are in need of insurance

01:15:43.320 | and you have a special risk, ask your broker,

01:15:45.600 | find an insurance agent, ask them to work with Todd.

01:15:47.360 | They do a great job.

01:15:48.960 | So that's the best solution that I have for you there

01:15:51.440 | to be able to improve your situation.

01:15:54.920 | You can't work with him directly.

01:15:56.960 | But I will tell you a secret.

01:15:59.520 | Well, it's not I'm about to tell you,

01:16:00.560 | but I guess not technically a secret.

01:16:02.360 | I should be careful.

01:16:03.200 | But their website is called thestamagency.com.

01:16:07.080 | The, T-H-E, STAM, S-T-A-M-M, agency.com.

01:16:12.080 | They have on that kit, excuse me, on their website,

01:16:15.040 | it's not a consumer facing website.

01:16:17.080 | It's not intended for the general public.

01:16:19.280 | It's intended for brokers, actual life insurance agents.

01:16:23.680 | But they have a tool on there that's called Term Quotes.

01:16:27.040 | And this is a quoting system that will quote for you

01:16:30.760 | insurance policies with actual premiums.

01:16:34.360 | Now, of course, you don't know exactly

01:16:35.760 | what underwriting classification you're gonna get.

01:16:38.440 | Although on that, you can use it

01:16:40.880 | and you can talk about any prospective ratings

01:16:43.280 | or what you think the classification will be.

01:16:45.680 | This is not a consumer friendly tool

01:16:47.760 | in the sense of it's not a click through menu system.

01:16:50.360 | This is an agent tool.

01:16:51.720 | This is exactly the same quoting tool

01:16:53.200 | that I've used many times.

01:16:54.400 | But this is the first place I go to get quotes.

01:16:56.760 | But the secret is this is a way that you can get term quotes

01:17:00.200 | without having to get your name onto a solicitation list.

01:17:03.400 | Oftentimes, many of the websites out there,

01:17:05.440 | you have to put your name in, your info in,

01:17:07.080 | and then that puts you on the list.

01:17:08.040 | Then you gotta get the calls

01:17:09.520 | from the life insurance agent.

01:17:10.960 | So sometimes some of you will do that

01:17:12.520 | and you put in a fake name and a fake email address

01:17:14.400 | and a fake phone number and all that.

01:17:16.000 | Well, if you wanna bypass that,

01:17:17.160 | and you're just interested in trying to figure out

01:17:18.520 | what would be some quotes for life insurance,

01:17:20.480 | you can use this quote engine here.

01:17:22.960 | And again, you can't buy it on here.

01:17:24.520 | You have to work with an agent,

01:17:26.040 | but this will give you the prices across companies.

01:17:28.060 | And some of you that are kind of interested

01:17:29.900 | in the actual behind the scenes stuff

01:17:31.880 | will benefit from this.

01:17:33.200 | So you'll find that it's thestamagency.com.

01:17:36.320 | Click on term quotes and you can put in the information

01:17:39.400 | and you can figure out all the details.

01:17:41.640 | You can see all the carriers, you can see all the premiums.

01:17:44.200 | If you know of a certain number of ratings,

01:17:46.000 | you can put the table rating in there.

01:17:47.720 | Again, it's not a consumer focused site,

01:17:49.920 | it's an agent site.

01:17:51.200 | But some of you will like being able to quote insurance

01:17:53.760 | without having to go through the solicitation process,

01:17:58.040 | the marketing tool that many of the online

01:17:59.640 | quote engines will do.

01:18:00.480 | So there's my little tip of the day.

01:18:02.060 | Thank you all so much for listening.

01:18:03.080 | I ran out of music, but if you've enjoyed this content,

01:18:05.580 | if you'd like to see me do more of it,

01:18:06.840 | I would be thrilled if you would support the show, please.

01:18:09.560 | You can do that at radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron.

01:18:12.560 | Sign up to become a direct patron of the show.

01:18:14.700 | Just me, it goes directly, your money goes directly to me

01:18:16.760 | and helps me to continue bringing you more content

01:18:19.960 | and better quality content each and every day.

01:18:22.400 | Radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron.

01:18:25.440 | I'm out.

01:18:26.680 | Oops, wrong button, excuse me.

01:18:28.320 | Thank you for listening to today's show.

01:18:30.280 | Please subscribe to the podcast with our free mobile app

01:18:33.760 | so you don't miss a single episode.

01:18:35.880 | Just search the App Store on your device

01:18:37.840 | for Radical Personal Finance and you'll find our free app.

01:18:41.800 | If you have received value from the content of this show,

01:18:44.480 | please consider becoming a patron.

01:18:46.300 | Your financial support is how I pay the bills for the show

01:18:48.720 | and how I plan to grow our content.

01:18:51.160 | You can support the show with as little as a dollar a month

01:18:53.480 | or as much as you feel the content is worth.

01:18:55.980 | Details are at radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron.

01:19:00.680 | If you'd like to contact me personally,

01:19:02.500 | my email address is joshua@radicalpersonalfinance.com

01:19:06.440 | or connect with the show on Twitter @radicalpf

01:19:09.280 | and at facebook.com/radicalpersonalfinance.

01:19:12.440 | This show is intended to provide entertainment,

01:19:15.360 | education, and financial enlightenment,

01:19:18.720 | but your situation is unique

01:19:20.480 | and I cannot deliver any actionable advice

01:19:23.200 | without knowing anything about you.

01:19:25.540 | Please, develop a team of professional advisors

01:19:28.520 | who you find to be caring, competent, and trustworthy

01:19:32.520 | and consult them because they are the ones

01:19:35.360 | who can understand your specific needs,

01:19:37.660 | your specific goals,

01:19:39.400 | and provide specific answers to your questions.

01:19:42.680 | I've done my absolute best to be clear and accurate

01:19:45.320 | in today's show, but I'm one person and I make mistakes.

01:19:49.040 | If you spot a mistake in something I've said,

01:19:51.040 | please come by the show page and comment

01:19:53.160 | so we can all learn together.

01:19:55.260 | Until tomorrow, thanks for being here.

01:19:57.600 | - Hey parents, join the LA Kings on Saturday, November 25th

01:20:00.960 | for an unforgettable kids day presented by Pear Deck.

01:20:03.960 | Family fun, giveaways, and exciting Kings hockey awaits.

01:20:07.200 | Get your tickets now at lakings.com/promotions

01:20:10.020 | and create lasting memories with your little ones.

RPF0204-Todd_Simpson_Interview