RPF0164-Hackerspaces_Interview
00:00:00.000 | The LA Kings Holiday Pack is back! The perfect gift for the hockey fan in your life.
00:00:04.400 | A three-game pack starts at just $159 and includes a holiday blanket.
00:00:08.960 | Buy today and you'll receive an additional game for free.
00:00:11.840 | Don't miss out. Visit lakings.com/holiday today.
00:00:15.440 | Radical Personal Finance is a community project.
00:00:18.320 | It was created by me, but it's funded by you, much like the theme of today's show.
00:00:23.600 | For information on how you can get involved in supporting the show,
00:00:27.440 | please go to radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron.
00:00:32.560 | Today on the show, we're going to dig into the concept of hackerspaces.
00:00:40.400 | I'm not sure if you're familiar with this concept or not, but a hackerspace is a beautiful idea
00:00:44.320 | that you need to know about. That's why I'm bringing it to you on the show.
00:00:47.120 | In essence, it's a way for communities to come together and create a space
00:00:52.960 | for people to create stuff, to simply come up with and create cool stuff.
00:00:57.760 | And the variation and the possibilities of this
00:01:02.080 | are huge. It's also potentially life-changing for many people, including maybe you.
00:01:08.000 | Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance podcast.
00:01:26.080 | My name is Joshua Sheets, and today is Thursday, March 5, 2015.
00:01:31.040 | Today I bring you an interview with Jessica Fong.
00:01:34.880 | Jessica is one of the founding members of the Southside Hackerspace in Chicago.
00:01:39.920 | And if you're new to this concept or to this idea, definitely pay attention to today's show.
00:01:44.720 | It's a concept that has the potential of revolutionizing many neighborhoods.
00:01:49.600 | In our modern society, there's a real dearth of
00:01:59.200 | possibilities of places to go to simply make and do stuff.
00:02:04.160 | We seem to have changed over time from a less hands-on society to a more
00:02:10.080 | digits-on society or a more bits-and-bytes society.
00:02:13.920 | And yet the value of actually being hands-on with things is bigger than it's ever been.
00:02:19.840 | And several years ago, I heard about the concept of hackerspaces or makerspaces.
00:02:25.280 | I hear them referred to interchangeably and was absolutely fascinated with the idea.
00:02:30.960 | And a listener of the show reached out to me and said, "Hey, I think you might be
00:02:35.280 | interested in interviewing a friend of mine."
00:02:36.720 | And that was how this friend came on the show.
00:02:38.640 | It was Jessica from Chicago.
00:02:40.720 | And Jessica is one of the founding members of this Southside Hackerspace.
00:02:44.960 | And you know what?
00:02:46.640 | Let me skip the preamble and let her tell you about what is a hackerspace and why she do care.
00:02:52.320 | Let's get to it.
00:02:52.960 | Jessica, welcome to the show.
00:02:56.480 | I appreciate you making time for me today.
00:02:58.000 | >> Thank you.
00:02:59.680 | Thank you so much for inviting me.
00:03:00.880 | >> I brought you on based upon a listener suggestion.
00:03:04.560 | And I'm excited to bring this topic onto the show.
00:03:08.080 | I haven't mentioned it before, but talking about hackerspaces and makerspaces.
00:03:12.960 | Kick us off by introducing yourself a little bit and just share with me
00:03:17.440 | your story and how you got into this hackerspace, makerspace world.
00:03:21.760 | >> Sure.
00:03:24.000 | So I graduated with a degree in architecture from Illinois Institute of Technology.
00:03:29.840 | I'm in Chicago right now.
00:03:31.600 | And I've really been interested in entrepreneurship since forever.
00:03:37.280 | My family has owned restaurants and I come up with ideas every single day.
00:03:42.080 | And I sort of fell into this hackerspace, makerspace movement about, I'd say, a year
00:03:50.240 | and a half ago in a desire to advocate for STEM plus education and continued learning.
00:03:57.600 | And hackerspace is actually comprised mostly of, you know, the board is comprised mostly
00:04:05.120 | of alumni from my school.
00:04:07.680 | So it was really interesting to be able to see what they were up to.
00:04:10.720 | Hackerspaces and makerspaces in general, you know, usually focus on peer learning
00:04:16.880 | and knowledge sharing, things like that.
00:04:19.200 | And so it seemed really natural to move in this non-profit direction and focus on that
00:04:29.360 | individual and power advocacy and utilizing sort of free softwares and open source materials
00:04:34.720 | and things like that.
00:04:35.680 | So it's really exploded over the past couple of years, the movement in general.
00:04:40.080 | >> Describe the concept of a makerspace.
00:04:43.360 | What is it?
00:04:43.840 | >> So a lot of people use hackerspace and makerspace interchangeably.
00:04:49.760 | I've heard them defined a couple of different ways.
00:04:52.240 | But when it comes down to it, it's really about having a community-operated space.
00:04:58.400 | So it's comprised of volunteers and members.
00:05:00.880 | And there's a fifth habit that has all sorts of different tools.
00:05:06.320 | They can be woodworking, metalworking, electronics.
00:05:11.760 | I believe the earlier ones started out focusing mostly on electronics, which is kind of where
00:05:16.480 | you get the hacker space notion.
00:05:18.640 | But nowadays, the term hack really applies to a lot of quick fixes and DIY things.
00:05:25.040 | So I think the term has really sort of evolved from there.
00:05:28.480 | But they utilize a lot of open labs, workshops, lectures, presentations,
00:05:33.760 | local educational activities.
00:05:36.560 | And people just come into the space.
00:05:38.400 | They become members.
00:05:39.520 | They work on their own projects.
00:05:41.680 | Or they help each other out trying to invent new things together.
00:05:45.440 | And it's really a different culture for each sort of hackerspace or makerspace you go to.
00:05:51.200 | There's a slightly different focus.
00:05:52.640 | But overall, all of them are all about the duocracy, the idea that you make something
00:06:01.120 | with your own two hands in order to progress and to learn.
00:06:05.760 | >> And then one of the massive benefits, at least that I've understood, and unfortunately,
00:06:10.480 | there's none here locally.
00:06:12.880 | And I've actually never been to anybody's facility that's actually involved in this.
00:06:17.040 | It's just pure online research.
00:06:18.960 | But one of the big benefits is a well-funded, well-put-together, well-run makerspace might
00:06:24.960 | have access to just dozens and dozens and dozens of unique, different tools and then
00:06:30.560 | mentors, people to help create projects.
00:06:33.760 | So it's just really an incredible place to be able to learn new skills to create things,
00:06:39.680 | right?
00:06:40.180 | >> Yeah, that's correct.
00:06:41.040 | A lot of what I guess the pros of having a makerspace in your community is that, for
00:06:47.520 | the most part, they're very affordable.
00:06:49.920 | They are different tiers of membership.
00:06:52.800 | So at Southside Hackerspace, which is the hackerspace that I help run, we have a starving
00:06:59.440 | hacker tier, which is more for students and things like that.
00:07:04.000 | And it's really great because it's $28 a month.
00:07:06.720 | So if you're a student, you have your own storage and things like that at your dorm
00:07:10.960 | or whatever.
00:07:11.360 | You can just truck it over, work on a project, and then bring it back.
00:07:14.400 | And then there's a full membership, which is $50 a month.
00:07:18.320 | And that's use of all the tools in the space, regardless of whether it's starving hacker
00:07:23.520 | or full hacker membership.
00:07:24.800 | And you're right about one of the big pros is having those mentors and having those people
00:07:31.760 | who are willing to collaborate with you.
00:07:33.920 | Because you never know the opportunity that you might get to partner up with somebody.
00:07:38.240 | And the fact that this sort of support group that you join is going to have very niche
00:07:48.160 | markets.
00:07:48.880 | It's going to lead you to specific interest groups.
00:07:51.920 | You're going to tap into such a huge database of knowledge.
00:07:56.640 | And a lot of things are possible just yourself coming to space and being exposed to all of
00:08:02.560 | those things.
00:08:03.200 | >> When I first heard of the concept, one of the things that immediately stood out to
00:08:09.360 | me about it, it seems like a much more efficient allocation of funds for people who are interested
00:08:16.640 | in learning things and building things.
00:08:19.360 | I think if possible, I would almost always prefer to rent something rather than own it.
00:08:26.000 | Because there are certain costs associated with owning it.
00:08:28.560 | And then one of the bigger things is most tools, I simply don't use enough to justify
00:08:33.920 | really owning them.
00:08:34.640 | I have a couple of circular saws.
00:08:37.280 | And I use them, what, a couple times a year?
00:08:41.040 | And then you get to something like with woodworking.
00:08:42.960 | If you want to have a table saw, I can't justify owning a table saw.
00:08:46.960 | But man, there are times when if you want to make something, owning a table saw is the
00:08:51.120 | tool that you need.
00:08:52.640 | And if you could bring that together, and that's just woodworking tools, with electronics
00:08:56.880 | there's different things.
00:08:57.600 | But if you could just bring that together, and everyone can buy a share, partial ownership,
00:09:04.320 | which entitles them to the use of the tool.
00:09:06.560 | As long as you get the number of tools to the number of members and their busyness right,
00:09:10.400 | which I'm sure is a challenge sometimes in some very busy places, it can just be such
00:09:15.680 | an efficient way to allow people access to tools without having to buy them.
00:09:19.680 | And when you have access to high-end tools, I mean, the things that you can do are amazing.
00:09:24.480 | Yeah, you're absolutely right.
00:09:25.920 | There are a lot of tools that we've discovered are enormous in size.
00:09:33.280 | They're just obscene.
00:09:35.040 | You cannot fit them barely in a garage sometimes.
00:09:38.720 | So imagining somebody living in a city like Chicago here, you know, there's not a lot
00:09:44.000 | of real estate when you're in a studio apartment to take up, you know, all that room with a
00:09:50.320 | table saw or something like that.
00:09:51.760 | So having a local space that you can go to and to work in there and, you know, get dirty
00:09:58.640 | and have sawdust everywhere and have your projects sit there, you know, you slap your
00:10:02.000 | name on it and leave it there for a while to work on, that is big money in a city like
00:10:08.000 | this where you have so many awesome ideas you want to put forth, but you just can't
00:10:14.880 | fit them in your apartment.
00:10:16.080 | Right, right.
00:10:18.160 | Another thing that has really attracted me to makerspaces is I've heard that they can
00:10:24.640 | be really just excellent business incubators.
00:10:28.720 | I think so.
00:10:29.280 | Is that true?
00:10:30.080 | I would definitely agree with that.
00:10:31.440 | Of course, there are lots of positives and negatives to that.
00:10:36.240 | You get the positive, obviously, of getting access to tools that you normally wouldn't
00:10:41.280 | get access to, the mentorship that we talked about.
00:10:44.640 | So you get rapid prototyping is now a possibility.
00:10:48.000 | You can churn things out, you know.
00:10:49.440 | There's collaboration, which could lead to even, you know, monetary support.
00:10:55.280 | There are lots of mini organizations that form within hackerspaces that get support
00:11:01.200 | or run their own campaigns.
00:11:03.600 | A big one is that you avoid huge upfront investment costs, obviously, because you don't
00:11:09.360 | have to own that equipment, but also because a lot of the times you can share material
00:11:15.200 | costs as well.
00:11:16.160 | So you, you know, make a joint trip maybe with somebody who has a truck to go get a
00:11:20.560 | huge pile of wood and bring it back.
00:11:22.320 | And so now you have all that to use.
00:11:24.720 | And the other thing is the startup mentality.
00:11:30.880 | You're trying new things, you're testing things out, you're letting yourself fail
00:11:35.920 | and to improve.
00:11:37.200 | But there are a lot of cons as well, I guess.
00:11:40.320 | Obviously, it costs to be a member.
00:11:42.560 | There's limited storage space at the actual space.
00:11:46.240 | Sometimes they can be inconveniently located or unfortunately, in your case, nowhere nearby
00:11:52.480 | at all.
00:11:52.800 | And they are public spaces sometimes too.
00:11:57.360 | So a makerspace that's at a library, you're going to have to bend to their rules about
00:12:03.680 | how they conduct their work there.
00:12:05.120 | So there's that as well.
00:12:08.000 | >> How did you get involved with trying to start one?
00:12:12.560 | >> I actually got involved because a former classmate of mine came by one time and said,
00:12:18.480 | "Hey, would you be interested in doing PR for this organization that I've been working
00:12:24.640 | on?"
00:12:25.440 | So that's kind of how I hopped into it.
00:12:27.440 | I'm really interested in sort of what that scene was like, I guess.
00:12:32.080 | It was something that I had never heard of before either.
00:12:34.640 | And I thought that it was just the most amazing thing because I was looking a little bit beyond
00:12:42.160 | that and saying, "Well, how is this ability to have people of all ages, any age pretty
00:12:48.320 | much?"
00:12:48.560 | Obviously, you don't want little ones messing around with power tools.
00:12:52.880 | But teenagers, adults coming in and being able to use that kind of space and feel safe
00:12:59.680 | in that environment, how do you transfer that into education?
00:13:05.760 | Well, it's already education.
00:13:07.520 | And a lot of what's interesting about the school system in Chicago is that there are
00:13:13.200 | certain districts and areas that they don't have opportunities for the students to study
00:13:19.920 | STEM+ like science, technology, math, engineering.
00:13:24.640 | So it's really important to expose people at a young age and encourage people at an
00:13:30.960 | older age to feel free to play with things like that.
00:13:34.640 | And I know for me, I've heard theoretically that they used to have shop class in high
00:13:42.400 | school.
00:13:42.720 | I would shop and metal shop and mechanic stuff.
00:13:47.440 | And I was always a little bit jealous because in my era, we never had any of that.
00:13:52.880 | And it's possible I did go to a private school, which was certainly a well-funded
00:13:58.880 | school, but they didn't have that.
00:14:01.360 | My understanding is a few of the government schools around here do have that.
00:14:04.400 | But it's very abnormal.
00:14:05.920 | And I always felt like I was missing out.
00:14:08.640 | And to this day, I feel pretty inept when it comes to most mechanical things.
00:14:14.800 | Thankfully, I did a bunch of stuff with electronics kits when I was a kid.
00:14:18.800 | I got a ham radio license when I was a kid.
00:14:20.640 | And I built some different radio stuff.
00:14:23.360 | And that was really fun to get an opportunity.
00:14:25.760 | And my dad's an electrical engineer.
00:14:27.280 | So I learned he taught me how to solder and create a circuit board and do all of that
00:14:32.560 | stuff.
00:14:32.800 | But we didn't have a lot of access to the tools and to the shop and to the environment.
00:14:39.360 | And I often wonder to this day, I think if I were just-- I don't know.
00:14:43.440 | I'm not confident enough in my desire to go out and get interested in these things, to
00:14:48.880 | go out and buy a bunch of tools for myself.
00:14:51.120 | And I'm more of like, why would I spend $3,000 on tools I may or may not use?
00:14:55.440 | But if I could go somewhere and pay $50 a month to be around a community of people and
00:14:59.840 | just watch them and learn and kind of see what I was interested in, whether that was
00:15:05.520 | a leatherworking station or a metalworking or to learn how to weld, to me, that would
00:15:09.600 | be amazing.
00:15:10.160 | And now you take it to kids, and you just think, what a tremendous opportunity that
00:15:15.600 | can be to help with somebody's education, just to get them around it.
00:15:20.080 | Because so much of schooling is focused on academics and nothing on hands-on.
00:15:25.920 | And some people think very well on paper and in their mind.
00:15:30.560 | And some people think with their hands while they're making stuff.
00:15:32.880 | And how awesome would it be to have just community shops all over this country and,
00:15:39.200 | frankly, all over the world where kids could go and spend a lot of time with older mentors
00:15:44.960 | and adults who could teach them the skills that are, frankly, being lost?
00:15:48.960 | It's just an amazing-- I get excited just thinking about it.
00:15:51.600 | [LAUGHS]
00:15:52.000 | Yeah.
00:15:52.500 | It is really exciting because there's nothing like making something from scratch with your
00:16:02.080 | hands, whether or not it's knitting something or building furniture or welding or whatever
00:16:07.920 | it is.
00:16:08.960 | There's so little that can teach you in the classroom when you just look at a material
00:16:15.840 | in a book, a picture of it, and it's in your hands.
00:16:18.400 | And I think that it's almost like the service industry.
00:16:22.720 | You have to be a part of it before you really understand the value that you get from
00:16:29.920 | participating in it.
00:16:31.200 | And I've been so amazed by the demographic of people who participate in the makerspace
00:16:38.800 | community.
00:16:39.680 | When I first went to the Chicago Public Library, they have a wonderful maker lab.
00:16:44.720 | I went to a couple classes, free classes there, and teenagers and children to come
00:16:53.440 | to these classes.
00:16:54.320 | No, it was mostly adults, I would say probably 40-plus.
00:17:01.680 | And they were fully engaged.
00:17:05.280 | They were asking questions.
00:17:07.200 | They were working with the instructors step by step.
00:17:10.720 | They were not shy about getting involved and helping each other.
00:17:14.960 | And there was no sort of pretense as to, "I am so much more knowledgeable than you are.
00:17:20.480 | Let me go and see how awesome I am."
00:17:23.280 | It was completely positive.
00:17:25.200 | It was all collaboration the entire time.
00:17:28.720 | There's no negativity in that room.
00:17:31.040 | And it astounded me that there are so many people who are willing to put themselves forward
00:17:36.480 | to just throw themselves into this environment that some of them had never even seen a 3D
00:17:40.720 | printer work before.
00:17:42.160 | And to see the wonder as they're experiencing that is so rewarding.
00:17:49.760 | There's nothing better than being able to show somebody and teach something something
00:17:54.320 | new.
00:17:54.820 | Absolutely.
00:17:56.640 | I think we're all – those of us who are so-called knowledge workers, I think we're
00:18:01.680 | all a little bit desperate to see the work of our hand in some way, to be able to create
00:18:08.720 | something and step back and look at it.
00:18:10.880 | And so I enjoy mowing the lawn because you can step back and look.
00:18:15.360 | I did that.
00:18:16.400 | I actually did something visible.
00:18:18.400 | It wasn't just 14 emails that I sent off or some idea that I created.
00:18:23.920 | It was visible.
00:18:24.800 | Here's the work of my hands.
00:18:26.800 | I think as our society goes so heavy and even more day by day into that knowledge work idea,
00:18:34.160 | I think there's going to be more and more people who want to have the experience of
00:18:37.840 | creating something.
00:18:38.880 | I totally agree.
00:18:39.600 | What stage are you with regard – and so I'm asking this as a selfish question because
00:18:44.960 | I really have thought of doing this here locally.
00:18:48.080 | It's one of many projects on my someday maybe list of things that I don't have – I
00:18:52.640 | simply don't have the capacity for right now, but I keep coming back to it and saying
00:18:56.800 | this should exist where I live.
00:18:58.320 | Somebody should do this and I don't see anybody doing it.
00:19:00.560 | So I either have to find somebody and inspire them to do it or I have to do it myself.
00:19:05.200 | And so I'm just interested in the actual process.
00:19:08.400 | As you're building this space, first of all, what phase are you in with the project
00:19:15.440 | you're involved with in Chicago?
00:19:16.720 | Do you have a fully open and functioning space or is it still being built out?
00:19:20.400 | Where are you?
00:19:21.520 | Yeah, so Southside Hacker Space was formed about three years ago.
00:19:25.600 | Our three-year birthday party is actually coming up pretty soon and we are fully functioning
00:19:31.200 | now.
00:19:31.680 | Our doors are open.
00:19:32.640 | We're accepting members and really it started out in someone's garage and then meeting
00:19:42.640 | around in public spaces just to kind of flush out the idea of what we wanted in this particular
00:19:50.480 | hacker space.
00:19:52.000 | From then on, it's a lot of, I guess, nitty-gritty of where's the best location, what kind
00:19:58.960 | of neighborhoods are we trying to service, and do we get either purchasing or donations.
00:20:07.600 | A lot of what we receive are donations from other small or big tech companies that are
00:20:14.160 | within the city, people even who are like, "Oh, I've got this cabinet in my garage
00:20:19.360 | that I'm not using anymore.
00:20:20.400 | Do you guys want it?"
00:20:21.280 | So a lot of that stuff is community-based.
00:20:24.560 | You just reach out either through online or calling people even.
00:20:28.400 | And we do have several people who call us or email us saying, "Hey, I'm really
00:20:35.280 | interested in starting up a hacker space in my local area.
00:20:38.880 | What are some tips that you can provide or can you actually make a trip over here and
00:20:44.960 | let me know if there's something that I'm missing?"
00:20:46.960 | So that's all very exciting.
00:20:48.800 | But yeah, we're open right now and we have a really great set of members and the culture
00:20:56.400 | of our space is very positive.
00:20:57.680 | So I'm very pleased with that.
00:20:58.720 | I'm sure that countless of hours have been donated and invested by you and the founding
00:21:04.960 | team.
00:21:05.520 | Do you have any sense of how much money has come out of pocket to get things going?
00:21:09.040 | Oh, that's a tough question.
00:21:10.560 | I'm not sure if I really know the exact number.
00:21:17.120 | I personally do, yes, invest a lot of my spare time in just running the organization.
00:21:23.360 | I joke with the rest of the board that it's my second job after my full-time job.
00:21:30.720 | And all of us do put in at least, I would say, hours a week just running things or networking
00:21:39.680 | and stuff like that.
00:21:40.480 | It really depends on the space that you get as well.
00:21:44.880 | If you can manage to get a space with somebody else, then your rent costs are a lot cheaper.
00:21:50.160 | And like I said, a lot of what we received were donations.
00:21:55.280 | So the things that you really have to make sure you cover are your rent and any insurance
00:22:01.920 | that pertains to your particular city and your district, your location, and if you're
00:22:08.720 | filing for 501(c)(3) and things like that as a non-profit or if you're going to be
00:22:14.480 | a for-profit, different things like that have different fees and costs and waivers and everything
00:22:20.240 | like that that you need to sign.
00:22:21.280 | You mentioned non-profit versus for-profit.
00:22:23.920 | Are you aware of anybody who's made a business off of starting and running hackerspaces?
00:22:29.440 | Yeah, actually, there are lots of people that sort of start out, I think, with the idea
00:22:36.880 | that, "Oh, we're going to end," and they discover, "Oh, well, maybe our passion
00:22:40.880 | is really in this one area," and they either turn it into a for-profit or they have the
00:22:46.000 | idea from the start.
00:22:46.960 | A lot of these are similar to TechShop where it's tools that people can almost come in
00:22:55.200 | and like a makerspace, you pay them a due and you rent the space for a daily pass or
00:23:03.360 | a weekly pass or a monthly pass or something like that, and that really use the tools,
00:23:10.240 | do your own business and pop out.
00:23:12.640 | But there are places that focus on classes as well, and that's all lumped into whatever
00:23:22.240 | costs that you would pay to join or get that pass for that month.
00:23:28.800 | So it's really a toss-up, but there are definitely some that are in Chicago right
00:23:35.360 | now that are functioning as for-profits.
00:23:37.760 | One of the things on my list I've been trying to make time is to get to a maker fair, and
00:23:46.000 | there are actually some of those nearby, and the timing hasn't worked out.
00:23:50.560 | Are you involved with that scene at all, and are you able to describe what the maker fairs
00:23:55.760 | are and why they exist and what they're about?
00:23:58.480 | Yeah, maker fairs are pretty much a big party for everybody who's involved in the maker
00:24:05.680 | community.
00:24:06.400 | You know, it's kind of like a convention.
00:24:08.240 | There are booths set up.
00:24:09.520 | You get specific makerspace or hackerspace and what you do there.
00:24:14.000 | A lot of them have free activities for kids and adults to do.
00:24:18.240 | So we went to the Northside Maker Fair here in Chicago, and we were printing 3D models
00:24:25.200 | and 3D keychains, showing off our 3D printer there.
00:24:29.360 | So you have a little bit of a demonstration.
00:24:31.360 | There are some other ones that do paper crafts or do soldering or showing off quadcopters,
00:24:37.840 | doing demos, things like that.
00:24:39.920 | And really, it's just an opportunity to get sort of market and see what's out there in
00:24:45.760 | your local area, see what kind of makerspaces are there, if there are any ones that you
00:24:50.160 | can participate in for free or if they're offering classes or anything like that.
00:24:54.480 | And it's a really brilliant way to meet other people who are interested in the same
00:25:01.440 | things as well.
00:25:02.080 | What's your vision long-term for your space?
00:25:06.480 | I know it's a relatively small space square footage-wise, but do you guys have a long-term
00:25:11.920 | vision for what you're trying to accomplish?
00:25:15.920 | Yeah, I would say that hopefully within the next couple years we expand.
00:25:20.560 | I'd really like for us to get a bigger space, and I know that the rest of the members are
00:25:26.320 | itching to get more tools in the space already.
00:25:29.760 | But of course, you have to observe a certain amount of clearance around all of the woodworking
00:25:34.480 | tools especially.
00:25:35.360 | So getting a bigger space would be great.
00:25:38.880 | Overall, because Southside Hackerspace is really focused on continued education and
00:25:46.240 | STEM plus, a lot of what we want to do is to offer more free classes to the public to
00:25:54.560 | get them in through the doors and to get them exposed to that.
00:25:57.600 | So I hope that in the future we might even be able to hook up with other hackerspaces
00:26:05.440 | and get involved with having them come in and give talks as well, us going over there.
00:26:13.200 | We do a little bit of that now with the Northside Hackerspace called Pumping Station One.
00:26:17.440 | Bigger is what I'm shooting for right now is Chicago and then Illinois and then the
00:26:26.240 | United States.
00:26:27.040 | It's going to be really big.
00:26:28.560 | Explain what you mean.
00:26:31.520 | I understand STEM, let's see, the science technology.
00:26:35.120 | Okay, maybe I don't.
00:26:36.800 | Engineering, mathematics, something like that.
00:26:38.800 | What are you trying to do when you say STEM plus?
00:26:42.400 | What exactly is the change that you're working to affect?
00:26:45.600 | What I'm focusing on is using the hackerspace as a safe environment for people who don't
00:26:57.040 | have exposure to those fields of study in their own schools and being able to almost
00:27:05.040 | supplement the education that they're getting right now.
00:27:07.520 | I think overall it's going to really challenge the way people think about education in general.
00:27:15.920 | There's still homeschooling, there's Montessori school, there's public schools, there's
00:27:21.120 | private schools.
00:27:23.120 | Who's to say that in the future maybe a child will get all of their schooling from
00:27:30.240 | a hackerspace or some combination of multiple things?
00:27:34.800 | I think that it's really a fantastic way to figure out where your passion really is.
00:27:41.600 | If you find that you're not getting enough exposure to technology or engineering in your
00:27:47.520 | school, then seeking it out yourself enables you to become an advocate for yourself in
00:27:53.680 | the educational world.
00:27:54.720 | I'd love to see that model explored.
00:27:58.400 | One of the things I think we'd probably do a poor job with is making science applicable.
00:28:05.440 | It's one thing to study mathematics and to figure out how to add and divide fractions
00:28:14.080 | and to do it in isolation.
00:28:15.920 | But if you're building a bird feeder or doing some introductory woodworking project,
00:28:21.120 | and as part of that you have to learn how to navigate these fractions, now you have
00:28:26.400 | a reason to learn the actual math behind it.
00:28:29.440 | You have a reason if you're interested in studying engineering, if you're working on
00:28:33.280 | something with a 3D printer or you're trying to make a CAD design, you have a reason.
00:28:37.360 | To me, that can be so valuable because what seems to be missing in so much of schooling
00:28:44.880 | is context.
00:28:46.240 | There's little context for the information.
00:28:48.320 | It's not connected to anything.
00:28:49.760 | It's presented in a disjointed manner.
00:28:52.000 | You just go from subject to subject to subject and there's very little practical application
00:28:56.080 | of it.
00:28:56.320 | But if you can flip it and you can focus on practical application, now let's learn what
00:29:01.520 | we need to do to lean to know of the theory in order to really understand the practical
00:29:06.400 | application, you have a much more powerful model of education.
00:29:09.840 | Exactly.
00:29:13.920 | Is there any resources for people who are interested, who might be interested in finding
00:29:17.920 | a hackerspace, anything beyond just a web search?
00:29:21.040 | Because that's about all I've ever done is look on Meetup and do web searches.
00:29:25.360 | But are there any listings, directories, websites that are joining the industry together?
00:29:30.880 | I think that a lot of hackerspaces are trying to keep hackerspaces.org updated as much as
00:29:37.200 | possible.
00:29:38.400 | It kind of fell by the wayside for a while.
00:29:40.960 | And since it's got so many hackerspaces listed on there internationally, it's really only
00:29:47.680 | keeping track of the ones that are updating more frequently.
00:29:51.280 | So there could be hackerspaces that just haven't taken the time to update on that website,
00:29:56.000 | but they are in your local area.
00:29:57.680 | I would encourage people to do is to check out the local library.
00:30:03.280 | Even if they don't have a hackerspace there, they might know the connections.
00:30:08.000 | And asking friends and family and getting exposed, a lot of the hackerspaces in Chicago
00:30:15.680 | anyway, you just walk around and you could pass by and discover one.
00:30:22.240 | They are kind of known to be a little bit hidden.
00:30:25.680 | But there are definitely communities that you can, I would say, like you're doing on
00:30:32.320 | Meetup, Reddit, even for your specific city, they might post in there.
00:30:37.200 | We've done that a couple of times on our Chicago.
00:30:39.440 | And then all of the social networking, we utilize Facebook a lot.
00:30:45.040 | We have our own web page that we try and update.
00:30:49.040 | And a lot of the colleges too, I should think, because students will come out of the university
00:30:58.320 | and some of them will have, like us, the idea to start a space.
00:31:02.240 | So you could even tap alumni association at your local university.
00:31:06.160 | Very cool.
00:31:07.360 | So final question, if you were going to leave us today with a charge to kind of share your
00:31:13.840 | vision of why you'd like to get people involved in what you're doing locally and why you'd
00:31:18.720 | like to get other people involved in their location, what would be your kind of closing
00:31:26.560 | rallying cry for the hackerspace movement?
00:31:31.360 | I think that a lot of what it comes down to, everything that we've been talking about,
00:31:36.480 | education and about being an advocate for yourself.
00:31:40.400 | This is the kind of legacy that you teach and you give your, you know, lead the way
00:31:47.760 | for your children.
00:31:48.640 | In architecture and design school, one of the things that I learned was that your first
00:31:54.480 | try is really far from your masterpiece.
00:31:59.280 | You have to fight constantly for your ideas and you watch them get broken and you have
00:32:04.400 | to put them back together.
00:32:05.920 | But being us is the most rewarding thing you can do for yourself.
00:32:12.400 | It's the best thing that you can teach yourself and to feel good about because, you know,
00:32:17.120 | coming back to this idea of business incubator, it being a business incubator, what makes
00:32:21.680 | a good business, in my opinion, is passion, it's dedication, it's a need or an audience
00:32:28.160 | and churning out that refined product that you're really, really proud of.
00:32:32.320 | Those are the things that you learn when you focus on making education something applicable
00:32:39.680 | to you.
00:32:40.160 | So I guess I would challenge people, your listeners, to think about how a hackerspace
00:32:45.520 | or a makerspace can really help them personally and help the people around them because I
00:32:51.360 | think that that's what we have to focus on in order to improve the way we live our lives.
00:32:57.920 | - Jessica, thanks for making the time to come on.
00:33:00.480 | I've enjoyed talking with you.
00:33:01.600 | - Thank you so much.
00:33:02.640 | - Here's my question for you.
00:33:06.960 | Could your community benefit from that type of, I guess, facility?
00:33:12.160 | I know mine could and I would very much love to have one of these in my area.
00:33:17.920 | If any of the listeners are here in South Florida, I don't know, maybe I can get together
00:33:22.000 | with you.
00:33:22.240 | I've looked around.
00:33:22.720 | This is one of those projects that I would dearly love.
00:33:25.520 | If I were financially independent and I had the money to put behind this and was willing
00:33:29.280 | to allocate towards this right now, I would dearly love to get this started here in my
00:33:33.200 | area.
00:33:33.600 | There's such a need, such a need in our communities.
00:33:37.040 | And if any of you have an interest in helping other people find a community that doesn't
00:33:40.160 | have access to this kind of thing, I mean, in my community, there are so many neighborhoods
00:33:44.160 | that could just benefit from somebody coming in and opening up a warehouse where people
00:33:48.080 | can just simply tinker and do stuff and make stuff.
00:33:51.440 | And we've got to keep the ability to create things.
00:33:56.320 | We've got to keep the ability to use our hands and to understand how things fit together.
00:34:01.520 | And this is such an important thing because when you take the power of, I mean, the technological
00:34:07.840 | revolution is powerful.
00:34:09.920 | The ability to simply have new technologies as governed by bits and bytes is powerful.
00:34:15.200 | But you know what's even more powerful?
00:34:16.480 | When you connect those things to physical stuff.
00:34:19.280 | Because we live in a physical world, a material world, and we need to have these things connected.
00:34:25.280 | So make sure, go online, check out some information on hackerspaces and makerspaces and just look
00:34:31.600 | and look around in your community.
00:34:33.200 | See if anybody's getting started with one of these.
00:34:34.800 | See if you can chip in.
00:34:35.680 | See if something's available.
00:34:36.720 | And I hope to hear from several of you at least who maybe can help sponsor something
00:34:42.320 | like this going forward in your communities.
00:34:44.960 | That would thrill me.
00:34:46.160 | So go and get busy, I guess.
00:34:49.920 | Thanks so much for listening today.
00:34:52.080 | I appreciate so much your time and attention.
00:34:54.800 | I hope this content has been valuable.
00:34:56.160 | I crave feedback.
00:34:57.120 | So feel free to email me, joshua@radicalpersonalfinance.com with feedback.
00:35:01.280 | And if you'd like to make sure the show is here for you continually day after day,
00:35:04.320 | please go to radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron.
00:35:07.600 | At the moment as of today, we are at 61 patrons and $932 per month, almost at $1,000 a month,
00:35:13.840 | which is very cool.
00:35:15.040 | We're almost halfway on our way to $2,000 a month.
00:35:17.440 | And at $2,000 a month, I'll reward you guys with a new intro, fancier intro.
00:35:22.000 | So please consider going to radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron.
00:35:25.360 | You can support the show with as little as a buck a month or as much as a couple hundred
00:35:28.880 | dollars a month.
00:35:29.360 | You can actually put in that little box any number.
00:35:31.600 | It's just I have different bribes for you at different numbers.
00:35:33.760 | So radicalpersonalfinance.com/patron for everything you need.
00:35:37.680 | Cheers, y'all.
00:35:38.720 | Thank you for listening to today's show.
00:35:40.880 | If you'd like to contact me personally, my email address is joshua@radicalpersonalfinance.com.
00:35:47.520 | You can also connect with the show on Twitter @radicalpf and at facebook.com/radicalpersonalfinance.
00:35:54.640 | This show is intended to provide entertainment, education, and financial enlightenment.
00:36:01.680 | But your situation is unique, and I cannot deliver any actionable advice without knowing
00:36:08.560 | anything about you.
00:36:10.160 | Please, develop a team of professional advisors who you find to be caring, competent, and
00:36:17.840 | trustworthy, and consult them because they are the ones who can understand your specific
00:36:24.080 | needs, your specific goals, and provide specific answers to your questions.
00:36:30.160 | I've done my absolute best to be clear and accurate in today's show, but I'm one
00:36:35.840 | person and I make mistakes.
00:36:37.920 | If you spot a mistake in something I've said, please help me by coming to the show
00:36:42.240 | page and commenting so we can all learn together.
00:36:45.040 | Until tomorrow, thanks for being here.
00:36:48.080 | Hey parents, join the LA Kings on Saturday, November 25th for an unforgettable kids day
00:36:53.040 | presented by Pear Deck.
00:36:54.480 | Family fun, giveaways, and exciting Kings hockey awaits.
00:36:57.600 | Get your tickets now at lakings.com/promotions and create lasting memories with your little