RPF0137-Side_Hustle_Nation_Interview
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00:00:05.040 | pack starts at just $159 and includes a holiday blanket. Buy today and you'll receive an additional
00:00:10.720 | game for free. Don't miss out. Visit lakings.com/holiday today. It's a new year and one way
00:00:18.320 | you might consider improving your new year is to put a little bit more money in your pocket. A
00:00:23.360 | little bit of top-line revenue. Today it's all about the side hustle. I bring you an interview
00:00:28.880 | with Nick Loper from Side Hustle Nation. Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast. My name
00:00:50.320 | is Joshua Sheets and today is Monday, January 19, 2015. This is the show where we teach you how to
00:00:58.960 | make money today, how to make a little bit of extra money on the side and inspire your creativity
00:01:03.920 | in the hopes that you'll go out and improve your cash flow. And today, I'm going to primarily give
00:01:10.560 | you ideas for unique ways to accomplish that. My guest today is a man named Nick Loper and Nick is
00:01:23.840 | the author and the founder of Side Hustle Nation. The website is sidehustlenation.com. He hosts a
00:01:32.160 | show called the Side Hustle Show, a podcast. And the entire focus of his site and of his work
00:01:40.080 | is clearly indicated in the title. He's all about how to build up something on the side that will
00:01:45.200 | allow you to increase your income for whatever purpose you have for increasing your income.
00:01:51.280 | And maybe that would lead into a new business of some kind. One of the things that we explore on
00:01:59.120 | the show quite a bit is income, how to improve and increase your income. There's probably a point of
00:02:05.280 | diminishing returns at which this is simply not a priority. But for many of us, that is a major
00:02:10.640 | focus and there are many ways to produce income. We talk a lot about ways to produce income at your
00:02:15.360 | current job, in your current business. But one sure-fired way of creating additional income is
00:02:21.360 | to do more work. And for many people, that's more effectively done with some sort of side project,
00:02:26.480 | some sort of side job. And the market for side projects, side jobs has dramatically changed.
00:02:33.920 | Now, whether this is something that you need to do temporarily or it's an ongoing focus,
00:02:38.800 | whether it's something that you're doing as a way of transitioning from what you are doing into a
00:02:44.400 | new business, that's up to you. And obviously, you'll have to decide that within your own context.
00:02:50.400 | But I've watched over the last few years just some really exciting trends of just new opportunities
00:02:55.680 | that have never existed. In general, I see a transition available to people to do more and
00:03:02.240 | more work in unique niches. And you'll hear in the interview that Nick and I talk a little bit
00:03:06.320 | about that, about how to put together full-time income from multiple side projects. And there's
00:03:12.960 | an increasing trend in this direction in industry. My hope is that today's interview simply sparks
00:03:20.080 | your creativity and gives you some ideas so that instead of simply going and delivering pizzas,
00:03:27.840 | which is certainly a valid option, you can use that as a metaphor and find something that might
00:03:34.000 | lead to broader exposure, might lead to more opportunities. This can be a really, really
00:03:41.200 | helpful strategy to just get you over the hump. Perhaps you're working a job that you love and
00:03:45.840 | in a career in an environment that you really enjoy, which by the way, I've got a show on my
00:03:50.160 | show list that I've been meaning to do of all the amazing benefits of working at a steady job in a
00:03:57.200 | steady corporation. I have tried to balance the tone a little bit on the show instead of focusing
00:04:03.200 | so much on entrepreneurship, just simply recognizing that there are pros and cons,
00:04:07.680 | because I really do believe there are pros and cons. And for me, I prefer entrepreneurship,
00:04:11.840 | but there are many people and there are many advantages to working in just a steady corporation
00:04:19.040 | where you have a steady paycheck. But continuing with the point, whether it's something you're
00:04:22.800 | doing as a temporary method, just increase your income or whatever your reason, that's up to you.
00:04:27.920 | But I hope this interview with Nick will bring you some ideas and I encourage you to check out
00:04:32.480 | his content. One of the things I'm trying to do on the show, I hope you find it helpful.
00:04:37.120 | If there's a particular topic that I'm not going to create the side hustle nation,
00:04:43.040 | Nick's already done it. I don't see any reason to spend any of my energy trying to create that.
00:04:48.240 | And so I love to profile people who might be a resource for you. And if you are in need of a way
00:04:55.280 | to earn some extra income, go check out his show and listen to a bunch of his episodes, and maybe
00:05:00.880 | that will fuel your creativity and help you. And then feel free to come on back over here when you
00:05:05.520 | need to. That's why I bring you some of these shows, is to profile some resources that might
00:05:09.920 | be helpful for you. Again, I don't see any point in trying to do something that somebody else is
00:05:16.960 | doing well. There are so many massive needs, especially with regard to finance, that I prefer
00:05:21.760 | to focus on the things that I don't see being done well. And so although I want to bring you ideas
00:05:26.240 | from time to time, I thought the best way to bring you some of these ideas would be in the context of
00:05:30.400 | an interview. And now for more information, if this is of great interest to you, then go on over
00:05:35.360 | and check out some of Nick's content. Enough talking, let's get to it. So Nick, welcome to
00:05:41.600 | the Radical Personal Finance Podcast. I appreciate you being with me today. What's happening, man?
00:05:46.800 | Been looking forward to having you on. We met originally at Podcast Movement,
00:05:50.480 | was that six months ago at this point? And I was intrigued with the concept of your site,
00:05:56.400 | Side Hustle Nation. And I wasn't previously familiar with it. After meeting you, though,
00:06:01.040 | I had gone back and looked through some of your content and just was fascinated with what you're
00:06:06.000 | doing. I thought it would be extremely valuable content to bring to my audience. So what I'd love
00:06:11.280 | to start with, though, is introduce the genesis of Side Hustle Nation. What's your story? What
00:06:18.320 | were you doing and how did Side Hustle Nation come out of that? This was my way of spreading
00:06:23.920 | the gospel of this lower risk brand of entrepreneurship, saying, hey, you don't need to
00:06:29.280 | jump off the cliff into the unknown. You can start a business on the side. You can ramp this thing up
00:06:35.680 | as slowly, as quickly as you want, but do it in a way that you're comfortable with. Because that
00:06:42.320 | was my experience. It was three years of nights and weekends for me before I felt comfortable
00:06:46.560 | quitting my job. And even then, it took a couple of beers to get up the nerve when I was talking
00:06:53.600 | with my boss at dinner. And I don't know how people do it. I'm going to find a way to pay
00:07:01.360 | the rent next month. And they just go. And it's like, well, that's not me. And I don't think
00:07:06.720 | that's for the percentage of the population that's more risk averse like me. This is the site for
00:07:12.000 | you. How to earn money outside of your day job while keeping that day job. What was the business
00:07:18.080 | you were engaged in previously? I had a comparison shopping site for shoes called Shoesniper.com.
00:07:27.120 | And then the business that you transitioned to was Side Hustle Nation?
00:07:31.280 | So it's transitioned. So I should back it up. So on my first day of self-employment,
00:07:38.240 | of all days, Google decides this is the day they're going to crawl my site for quality scores.
00:07:46.000 | And as luck would have it, it's also the day that the server decides to crash. And so, of course,
00:07:52.320 | they crawl the site. They say, hey, look, this is horrible. It doesn't even load. We can't let
00:07:55.920 | you advertise with us. Like, whatever. This is temporary. This is fine. We'll get it fixed.
00:08:00.880 | And then even then, once the site was back up and running, it had kind of raised this red flag
00:08:06.800 | for them. So the site was monetized through referral relationships, affiliate relationships.
00:08:11.520 | If somebody bought a pair of shoes through the site, the store would send a finder's fee or
00:08:15.840 | commission back to me. And so they looked at the site and said, this is a crappy affiliate site.
00:08:20.640 | Your sole purpose of existing is to drive traffic to other websites. And I said, that's the sole
00:08:26.160 | purpose of Google for existing. Who are you to talk? But they were serious because that was like
00:08:32.400 | 80 percent of my traffic. So it took the whole summer. And so that was a very stressful summer.
00:08:38.720 | I used to have hair before that time. Trying to get back into their good graces and learn how to
00:08:45.840 | make a site that was acceptable to them in terms of the value add for their users.
00:08:50.880 | But I guess it opened my eyes. Because my whole shtick is on diversification. If you're relying
00:08:59.280 | on one source of income, your day job, for example, you're in an inherently risky position.
00:09:04.400 | And then once I quit, I was in essentially the same risky position because I was relying
00:09:11.440 | on just the shoe business as my one source of income. And worse than that,
00:09:15.600 | that one source of traffic determined a big percentage of it. So from there, I was always
00:09:21.120 | interested in starting other side hustles, other websites, other experiments, other projects. And
00:09:27.760 | so that was kind of and that's accelerated with the Side Hustle Nation blog and podcast
00:09:34.160 | to have an outlet, to have an excuse to talk about all these different things that people are doing.
00:09:40.640 | - One of the reasons why I was most excited to bring you on is because your entire focus is
00:09:47.680 | helping people build part-time, build side income. And I guess the modern way of saying a part-time
00:09:54.640 | job is the side hustle. I like the nomenclature. I don't know where it came from, but it seems like
00:09:59.840 | that's the standard way of referring to it. And one of the themes that on my show, I continually
00:10:06.160 | talk about is the wheel of financial planning. And the amount of income that we earn is one
00:10:11.920 | important component of financial planning. In order to increase our wealth, we only have a few
00:10:19.120 | levers that we can push. And one of those levers that we can push is the amount of income that we
00:10:22.400 | can earn. But for many people, it feels difficult to generate extra income simply out of employment.
00:10:31.040 | Perhaps they're on a salaried basis or on an hourly basis and there aren't overtime opportunities
00:10:36.480 | available. And so in this scenario, you're pushed in the direction of needing to find some kind of
00:10:43.600 | extra work. And so that means part-time job, that means some sort of side business. What intrigues
00:10:50.320 | me though is how what I've observed in the last five or 10 years, the just massive proliferation
00:10:58.720 | of opportunities that has come about. It used to be, Dave Ramsey is famous for saying, "Go deliver
00:11:03.600 | pizzas." And he means that as a metaphor for some kind of part-time job. But to me, those part-time
00:11:10.320 | jobs, whether it's delivering pizzas or waiting tables at night or bartending bar, things like
00:11:15.120 | that, they have some potential. But they're not, they all have a cap on them as far as the amount
00:11:20.640 | of income that can be earned. But there are many more exciting opportunities emerging. And
00:11:27.120 | especially with some of the electronic connectivity that we all enjoy now. So what I'd love to spend
00:11:32.960 | the bulk of our time today talking about is discussing some of the opportunities that you
00:11:38.720 | see in your work that are really exciting of how people are generating income on the side with
00:11:46.000 | their side hustle. What are you seeing as some of the biggest growth areas of the types of
00:11:51.440 | businesses that people are starting? There are the different types of services that they're
00:11:54.880 | offering. What are you seeing as having the biggest growth right now? You bet. And I like
00:12:01.840 | to focus on the earning potential side because the other part of the equation is your spending.
00:12:09.680 | And you can only save so much before you're living in a grass hut. And there's only so much you can
00:12:17.600 | cut, right? Okay, I stopped cable, I stopped buying my coffee, whatever it is. But your earning
00:12:22.640 | potential is potentially limitless or hopefully in theory, limitless. And I like the idea of
00:12:28.400 | delivering pizza. I think that's a good metaphor because it is, even though it's not something
00:12:34.000 | that's time leveraged, it's something that's immediate. There's instant gratification. And
00:12:41.280 | you're going to find similar things with a lot of the freelancing stuff, the sharing economy stuff,
00:12:50.400 | the Airbnbs, the Uber drivers of the world. A friend of mine sent me a note a couple months
00:12:57.200 | ago and said, "We made, him and his girlfriend, have made two grand in the last few months
00:13:01.120 | dog sitting." And there's a couple of sites, dog.ak is one and rover.com is another. They're
00:13:07.360 | like Airbnb but for dogs. And I was like, "Oh my gosh." And hearing that totally made me want to
00:13:13.280 | set up shop and try it out because it's like, "Oh shoot, we already got one dog. I can walk
00:13:17.920 | two of them at the same time too. That's fine." So those are some of the fastest ways I think
00:13:23.520 | to get started is to tap into some of those existing marketplaces or the sharing economy,
00:13:32.080 | the peer-to-peer economy, like driving for Uber and Lyft and doing the Airbnb, the dog sitting.
00:13:38.480 | I think of what would be another one. Shoot, I had a guy on the show who makes his full-time
00:13:45.680 | living just buying and selling stuff on Craigslist. It's nuts. And he does appliances.
00:13:51.280 | Think about the biggest, bulkiest, hard-to-transfer item that you can think of.
00:13:57.920 | You're talking about Ryan Finlay, right?
00:14:00.400 | Absolutely.
00:14:01.040 | Yeah. I also interviewed him on my show some months back and I was fascinated with his
00:14:05.280 | blog for at least a couple of years. And he's got such an amazing story of just,
00:14:12.800 | again, creating a business off of this thing that I would never think of doing. And yet,
00:14:16.880 | he supports his income and he got out of debt and he's built a nice little business for himself
00:14:21.120 | buying and selling appliances on Craigslist. But there are many people doing that actually,
00:14:27.920 | not only with appliances but all these little niches. Have you had exposure to other people
00:14:32.160 | doing something similar on Craigslist?
00:14:37.040 | It's not something I've tried myself. Actually, my Lyft driver in Dallas for a podcast movement,
00:14:45.200 | we got in touch. I said, "Hey, I'm going to this podcast conference." He's like, "Oh, my God. I'm
00:14:49.760 | driving all day. Every day, I love podcasts. I'll check out your show." And so, he sent me a note
00:14:53.840 | after the episode with Ryan and was like, "Oh, my gosh. I found my first thing. I got it on the free
00:14:59.360 | section of Craigslist and I made like $300 this week." I was like, "Oh, my gosh. That's awesome."
00:15:04.400 | So, people taking action and I like Ryan's approach. I want to make $50 a day. I want to
00:15:09.760 | make $100 a day and just looking for those deals to go out and go after.
00:15:14.480 | So, let's talk about the sharing economy because this is a topic that fascinates me.
00:15:19.040 | The big ones are Uber and Lyft for the car services. Do you think those are viable ways
00:15:26.960 | for people to build some part-time income as it stands today in January 2015?
00:15:32.800 | Yeah, absolutely. I think you can get started right away and especially if you live in or near
00:15:38.960 | a big metro area. The demand just keeps going up for that stuff. So, that's a pretty cool one.
00:15:45.520 | What are the requirements for somebody who has a car? Is it any person with any car can
00:15:50.240 | sign up as a driver or what are their requirements to get started as a driver?
00:15:53.600 | Well, thankfully, I was asking Harry Campbell who's like the rideshare guy.com about this and
00:16:00.560 | he says you got to have a car that's 2006 or newer in pretty good shape and I think they do some sort
00:16:06.640 | of background check or like test drive with you with somebody who's local on the ground.
00:16:11.840 | But, you could be up and running within a week if you submit your application and get it done.
00:16:17.520 | Okay. Also, then Airbnb. So, we all at this point, I would assume we're probably familiar
00:16:24.080 | with this. The idea of just renting out a part of your house. Are people doing this and generating
00:16:29.760 | substantial income from it? Yeah, absolutely. So, I found a guy who actually has an apartment
00:16:36.800 | in Amsterdam and so he started out renting out a room in it, renting out two rooms in it.
00:16:42.560 | And then he was like, "Forget that. I'm going to rent out the whole thing and I'm going to go
00:16:47.280 | travel myself." And so, he's actually ended up making a full lifestyle business out of it. I
00:16:52.880 | think he cleared like 60 grand last year from this one apartment and he was in Brazil when I talked
00:16:58.880 | to him. It's just nuts. So, you never know. And he made the episode because my beef with that was
00:17:04.640 | like, "Look, we're out in the suburbs. Who would want to stay here?" And he's like, "Look, if you
00:17:10.400 | have hotels in your town, then there's obviously a demand for it." And I was like, "Well, I guess
00:17:16.000 | you're right because there's a handful of every chain hotel two miles away from us. So, maybe
00:17:21.360 | there is a market." So, not something that I've tested out yet, but it's something to think about
00:17:26.080 | for sure. Are there other sites that are coming online to compete with Airbnb that you're aware
00:17:31.360 | of that people are starting to use? The other one that I've heard of is like Wimdo, which is like a
00:17:37.520 | European knockoff of it. I don't know if they have the same traffic. Okay. Other of the sharing
00:17:43.680 | economy, you mentioned dog walking. Are there any other variations of this? Sharing your boat,
00:17:50.080 | sharing your yard, sharing your parking space, things like that that you're aware of that people
00:17:54.480 | are using? Oh, my gosh. There's one for every niche imaginable. The one I wanted to try was
00:18:01.280 | airport parking. What was it called? Relay rides. They're out of San Francisco Airport.
00:18:06.720 | And they wouldn't take my car because it was over 100,000 miles. But they offer free airport
00:18:11.920 | parking and they would rent it out to somebody while you're on your trip. And so, you have
00:18:16.400 | potential to park for free and earn money if somebody actually rented your car. But they
00:18:21.280 | wouldn't take mine because it was too old. But for everything imaginable, like park atmyhouse.com,
00:18:27.600 | I believe is one of them. There's just a ton. Rent your snowboard while you're not using it.
00:18:34.000 | I forget the sites for all these. But for any kind of asset you have, which is cool in the big
00:18:41.520 | picture, right? Because we can get by with owning less stuff and become more efficient with our
00:18:47.120 | resources, more minimalist and stuff. So, I think that's really cool. Talk to me about some of the
00:18:52.240 | online freelancing kind of service offerings and explain how, if I'm looking and saying,
00:18:59.600 | "Well, I don't have any stuff that I'm not going to share my apartment with friends, but I do maybe
00:19:04.160 | have some skills." What would be the process of going through and figuring out how to find some
00:19:09.280 | clients and generate some skills with some of the new online listing sites? You bet. You bet.
00:19:17.280 | There's... So, I had Brian Harris on the show recently from videofruit.com. Super, super smart
00:19:24.000 | guy. And so, he makes the argument that there's three main ways to make money online. He said,
00:19:29.520 | "You can sell advertising. You can sell affiliate stuff, which typically requires a ton of traffic
00:19:36.400 | to make it interesting. You can sell a product. You could sell a physical product. You could sell
00:19:41.520 | an e-book, a course or something like that, which is cool. That's something that I've done.
00:19:45.520 | And it still requires a little bit of an audience, a little bit of a platform. Or you can,
00:19:52.080 | unless you really hit it right with Amazon or some of these other places, he's like, "Or you can sell
00:19:58.560 | a service." He makes the argument that selling a service is the fastest way to get started because
00:20:03.200 | you don't need a website. You don't need to create a product. And you can just go out and find a
00:20:09.760 | customer, find your first customer. All of a sudden, you're in business. And so, he's like,
00:20:13.200 | "What do you...?" It's kind of the classic question. "What do people ask you for help about?
00:20:17.920 | And what are you more knowledgeable about than the average person?" But beyond that, he said,
00:20:22.880 | "Look, if you can find the epic how-to resource guide that somebody has posted on their blog,
00:20:29.600 | you could be the guy that just does that. You don't even need to invent this service necessarily.
00:20:36.640 | Somebody has spelled out the step-by-step thing. And the one I found recently was,
00:20:42.640 | "How to get your website SEO penalty removed," or something like the 12-step thing. And it's
00:20:50.880 | time-intensive to do that. But here it is. It's all spelled out for you. So, if you have some
00:20:55.040 | working knowledge of the basics of this stuff, go find a customer who would be interested in this.
00:20:59.200 | I like it. One of the things I see, and those three categories make a lot of sense to me,
00:21:05.600 | because even with my experience with Radical Personal Finance, I originally started off and
00:21:10.880 | simply said, "The most direct way for me to earn income off of my efforts here would be to sell my
00:21:17.600 | own services, to sell my own financial planning services." And I received lots of inquiries for
00:21:21.920 | that. And that actually would be the most direct way for me to earn income. Products have their
00:21:28.880 | place. They're less direct. And I have to create something that solves the needs of the audience.
00:21:34.480 | But it's more direct than, I don't need quite as big of an audience as I do for mass advertising
00:21:39.600 | or affiliate links. But all of them can be effective and functional. But just by focusing
00:21:45.360 | on the service, to me, this seems much more genuine. Because essentially what's happening
00:21:51.360 | is the role of the doorkeeper is diminished. And it used to be that if you were going to get
00:21:58.640 | involved in an industry or get involved in an industry or in a job, in a profession,
00:22:06.160 | you needed to get past all of the gatekeepers. And you needed to get the stamps of approval
00:22:10.800 | put on you by the powers that be. You needed to get the job. You need to get in with the company.
00:22:15.760 | You need to get all of this external proof. Because it was difficult for one individual
00:22:22.400 | to start to be able to publish and publicize their services on an inexpensive basis.
00:22:29.120 | The closest parallel that we had for being able to do this was, the only way you could do it
00:22:34.720 | previously was advertising, which was traditionally through mainstream channels, would have been very
00:22:40.400 | expensive. Or through things like direct marketing, direct mail. All of those things are fairly
00:22:46.960 | expensive. But now when with minimal cost you can get your message out there, then if you can help
00:22:53.120 | your message, there's a whole new challenge to it, but if you can help your message get found by the
00:22:56.960 | right person, then you cut down the barrier. You don't have to go through the Washington Times
00:23:02.880 | for them to approve your ad and run your ad and you pay their fees to gain access to the customers.
00:23:08.400 | You have Google. You have the ability to get in front of the people that matter.
00:23:13.600 | And so I think one of the skill sets that we need to gain as a population of people paying attention
00:23:21.520 | is that skill set of self-marketing. Always managing our brand, managing the skills that
00:23:27.360 | we're marketing, whether that's unique technical skills or whatever they are, we've got to take
00:23:32.640 | that on. And this is a whole new skill set that's never existed in the past because we just went and
00:23:37.520 | found the job doing something for somebody else. My friend Julian Gordon has a quote. He says,
00:23:44.320 | "We're all already entrepreneurs. Our employer is just our biggest client." And it's kind of the
00:23:50.800 | mindset shift of, "Okay, look, I'm going to have to go and get this done and make something happen."
00:23:58.960 | In most cases, all it is is an email to say, "Hey, I saw you might be interested in such and
00:24:04.720 | such a service. I've worked with blank insert name here to build trust." And then you're off to the
00:24:12.160 | races. I've always been interested in the idea of doing things like putting a wrap on my car and
00:24:20.400 | selling that service. I used to drive a lot and I always thought that would be interesting. What do
00:24:23.760 | you know about things like that? I know I had my virtual assistant research. I wanted to put a
00:24:31.840 | shoe sniper sticker or something on my car. They're like, "Then every mile I drive could be a
00:24:37.840 | deduction. It could be advertising expense." And they were very much like, "No, no, here's the IRS
00:24:44.000 | regulation. That's not how it works. That's not allowed." But there are companies out there. I've
00:24:48.320 | yet to find a super, super legit one. So I found a couple that were kind of shady. So I'm not sure
00:24:53.680 | if it's a fragmented local market for people. Somebody used to park in our neighborhood. It was
00:25:01.520 | like some juice company their car was wrapped with. So I assume they were getting paid for that
00:25:06.560 | unless they worked for the company. But those ones have always been intriguing for me. So if you know
00:25:13.200 | of any legit operators in that space, definitely let me know. No, I haven't found one. When I
00:25:17.520 | researched it in the past with my car, I found, A, your car has to be pretty new and fancy,
00:25:21.920 | and mine wasn't. And B, nothing felt fully legitimate. Everything just felt a little bit
00:25:30.160 | shady to me. And it seemed as though the people in the middle weren't quite legit.
00:25:41.280 | What about Fiverr, Odesk, Elance, these types of services? If I've got some specific skills,
00:25:49.440 | how can I get started with those types of sites, publicizing my work and making a little bit of
00:25:56.480 | side money? So I really like the idea of tapping into these existing marketplaces, these existing
00:26:04.160 | platforms. Because when you're just starting out, whether you're a blogger or a freelancer
00:26:09.680 | or anything, getting those first customers can be tough. And so it makes sense to go where the buyers
00:26:16.880 | already are. For e-books, that's Amazon. For courses, in my case, that was udemy.com.
00:26:23.040 | And I talked to a gentleman last year on Fiverr. And so he had the claim to fame or the sound bite,
00:26:32.000 | "You earned enough money on Fiverr to buy a house within a year, in cash." And I was like,
00:26:37.200 | "This is just nuts." Because I had used Fiverr for years as a buyer, but never had even given
00:26:43.360 | a second thought to selling stuff. What could I possibly sell for $5 that wouldn't make me go
00:26:47.760 | crazy? And he made the point, "Look, this is the marketplace of goods and services starting at $5."
00:26:55.280 | Which was, I didn't think I'd bought any of the upsells at that point, so I didn't really
00:27:00.320 | realize that. So starting at $5. And he made the point that, "Look, all of your $5 gigs can just
00:27:08.000 | be digital deliveries, or really quick deliveries that don't take up a ton of your time. And then
00:27:13.600 | in the gig extras, if somebody really wants to engage with you, that's when you're going to start
00:27:18.960 | spending more and more of your time." And the guy is a marketing genius and cross-selling. You're
00:27:23.200 | like, "Hey, if you were interested in this, you might also be interested in this. And I noticed
00:27:27.680 | you bought ServiceX, but it looks like we also could work together on this." And now what's
00:27:33.680 | really cool, for Fiverr, for people who've been on the platform for a little bit and have made a
00:27:38.160 | little bit of sales, you can sell whatever you want. You can send people custom quotes. I sent
00:27:44.240 | somebody a proofreading or a book editing gig the other day. It's just like, "Oh, whatever it is,
00:27:49.680 | $140, just send it off." And they accept it. If you can engage somebody in a conversation,
00:27:56.400 | then you can send them whatever custom project that you want now. So that's really cool. With
00:28:03.680 | Elance, with ODesk, very, very crowded. It's a global marketplace. You're competing with people
00:28:08.960 | in India and Pakistan and the Philippines and stuff. But that's okay, because there's always
00:28:14.160 | a point of differentiation. And I'll send you a link for the show notes. There's a couple really
00:28:23.200 | good podcasts I've heard on getting started on Elance specifically. Think about the position
00:28:30.320 | of somebody who's looking for work on there. They're looking for work because they don't
00:28:36.160 | know somebody in their network. They don't have a guy. If I had a guy to do my whatever project I
00:28:44.160 | need done, I would just hire them. Instead of thinking of it as, "I'm going to do this project
00:28:49.920 | for this random person. I'm going to become their go-to person for whatever skill." He ended up
00:28:55.360 | doing some writing projects for five bucks and then was able to really prove his worth and had
00:29:02.720 | a long-term client from that. I thought that was a cool story. I'll send you a link for that.
00:29:06.400 | The other way is to stand out. When I post jobs for Elance, it's probably the same way for you.
00:29:13.840 | You get back a ton of just copy and paste crap. You didn't even read the thing. It's just like,
00:29:18.160 | "Oh, I'm so great. Check out my portfolio," blah, blah, blah. What this one guy started doing was
00:29:23.520 | sending personalized video pitches. Being very picky about which jobs he was bidding on and then
00:29:29.680 | sending a personalized video pitch. Just turning on the webcam and saying, "Hey, I'm so-and-so.
00:29:34.960 | I'd love to help you out. I've worked with such and such client." No one else was doing that.
00:29:40.400 | Maybe more people are doing it now. I've still yet to receive one of these things. It might be
00:29:45.760 | really, really cool to break out of the clutter in that sense. I've learned a little bit since
00:29:53.040 | doing my show. I'm in a position where I've never been, where all of a sudden now I've got to deal
00:29:57.920 | with all kinds of incoming messages. What's intriguing to me is how something that simple
00:30:03.280 | is changing the medium can make a big difference. I've had listeners, even just last night,
00:30:10.000 | somebody on Twitter sent me a link to their YouTube video. Once I was assured that it wasn't
00:30:16.480 | spam, because you get these links sometimes and pretty careful about clicking on a link.
00:30:21.200 | But once I was assured it wasn't actually just a virus, I went ahead and followed it and I watched
00:30:26.000 | the YouTube video they created. I've had listeners send me audio feedback in, send me an MP3 file
00:30:33.840 | attached to their email. I can't resist listening to them. If you think about changing the medium
00:30:40.320 | like that, I never thought of doing that and sending that to somebody. But we all have a webcam
00:30:46.400 | built into our phone and built into our computer. We all have an audio recorder built into our phone
00:30:52.000 | and built into our computer. Something as simple as taking the time to record a personalized audio
00:30:56.960 | message and then attaching that to the email right with our phone, or recording a webcam,
00:31:02.880 | recording a video, posting it on YouTube and attaching that link to our email. What a great
00:31:09.360 | idea for differentiation. Maybe members of the audience could take that and apply that to whatever
00:31:13.760 | their industry is. I don't see it happening a lot, but yet it's been effective when people have sent
00:31:18.080 | it to me. I don't know if I would be thrilled to get an audio message just from someone randomly
00:31:25.200 | on email. But if you're actively pitching a product to people who are interested in it,
00:31:30.880 | absolutely. Do whatever you can to stand out. Right, but there's got to be an interest.
00:31:35.600 | Certainly, somebody spamming me from the email. They just took their telemarketing from
00:31:40.320 | the inbound call that was going to voicemail and attached it to an email. That doesn't do any good.
00:31:49.920 | But if you're trying to reach out to somebody and share a personal message, perhaps you have to be
00:31:56.640 | careful where you apply it. But at least I've listened to the ones that people have sent me,
00:32:00.480 | and I've been surprised at how difficult it was for me to turn off. Even lengthy messages were
00:32:04.720 | probably, if somebody had sent me that lengthy of an email, I might not have paid much attention.
00:32:08.880 | But I wound up paying attention to their audio message just because it was in a different format.
00:32:13.520 | What about, so you write a little bit, and you had listed, you have a site, you have a page on
00:32:25.120 | your site of talking about ideas for side hustles. And one of the things that you're doing yourself,
00:32:32.000 | and what I'm doing, is profiting essentially off of marketing information. And I always feel like
00:32:37.680 | those of us who are doing this, trying to tell people how to do things, and then making money
00:32:41.840 | off of telling people how to do things, we've got some thin ice that we're standing on. Because
00:32:45.760 | you've got to be very careful. Because it seems like the way to get rich these days is just start
00:32:51.280 | a blog, and make it, grow it huge, and start a podcast, and grow it huge, or start a YouTube
00:32:56.080 | channel and grow it huge. And certainly there are people who have done that. But yet it's a
00:33:02.240 | difficult, it's not necessarily such an easy transition. How do you coach people when they
00:33:07.120 | come to you and say, "Nick, I'm just going to, I've got a great idea for a blog. I'm going to
00:33:11.360 | start a site telling people how to make money on the side." Don't start a blog, that's what I tell
00:33:18.240 | them. My hourly rate from blogging is so far below minimum wage, it wouldn't be legal. It's a very,
00:33:24.960 | very slow path. And a blog, a blog podcast in itself, it's not a business. It can be a marketing
00:33:32.480 | channel for your business, but it's not, until there's something to sell, until there's a really
00:33:39.520 | good revenue model behind it, it's not a business on its own. And that's the old joke, right? What's
00:33:45.600 | the best way to make money online? Sell people the secret to making money online. And it is a
00:33:52.240 | fine line, right? So in my goals post for this year, I addressed that saying, "Look, I want to be
00:33:59.280 | a practitioner more than I want to be a preacher. I want to be out testing this stuff."
00:34:07.120 | If I had to follow my seven-step system to internet riches, I would be doing it.
00:34:15.120 | And so, this kind of the, you know, being out there and getting my hands dirty and like doing
00:34:24.400 | the work and then kind of sharing the results. That's been the most effective way to build the
00:34:29.840 | blog readership and to build the podcast as well, finding other people who are practitioners.
00:34:34.640 | How do you coach people toward figuring out, they come to you and say, "Nick, I know I need to do
00:34:40.160 | something, but I just don't know what to do." Do you have some ideas for how to coach people
00:34:43.920 | through the process of figuring out what they're going to try when they're thinking about developing
00:34:47.840 | a side hustle? Well, I think, well, I would start with kind of an inventory of, you know,
00:34:54.480 | skills and interests and what that could be is just, you know, writing down your or dusting off
00:35:00.240 | the resumes. And like, well, any job you've ever had, by definition, someone thought that was a
00:35:05.840 | skill worth paying for, right? Because they were paying you for it. So that might be one list or
00:35:10.720 | one circle to kind of start with. You know, what you're interested in would be another circle. Like
00:35:16.160 | the last thing you need is another day job that you hate. Like you want to have something that
00:35:22.720 | you're at least somewhat interested in working on. And then the final circle would be like,
00:35:28.400 | what kind of challenges have you overcome or what kind of hurdles have you overcome or what kind of
00:35:34.240 | problems have you solved in your own life? Because odds are other people might be facing those same
00:35:38.720 | issues, those same challenges. And in like in the context of the shoe site, you know,
00:35:44.480 | from their very early days, you know, what were my skills? Like, so I learned a little bit about
00:35:50.000 | online advertising at an internship that I had learned a little bit about affiliate marketing
00:35:54.240 | there. I played around building very, you know, rudimentary websites in college. And so that was
00:35:59.840 | kind of my inventory of skills related to that business and interests. Like I honestly was not
00:36:05.520 | interested in shoes or footwear or being a sneaker head at all, but I was interested in the process
00:36:10.480 | of building an asset, building a business, building a side hustle. And so that kind of qualified
00:36:15.920 | the interest box for me. And then the problem that was overcoming was just like, you kind of
00:36:22.720 | a frustration with the existing comparison shopping experience. Like they weren't doing a good enough
00:36:29.840 | job or they weren't delivering as accurate as a result because they had to be everything to
00:36:34.240 | everyone rather than, you know, really focusing on being excellent in one vertical. So that was
00:36:40.640 | the example of the three intersecting circles, I guess.
00:36:44.960 | It's interesting how when you do think about overlap, by looking at various interests,
00:36:52.800 | one of the things I like about the concept of side hustle is you don't have to depend on one thing
00:36:58.160 | to create a living wage all at once. And I think this is what makes a lot of businesses
00:37:04.000 | find difficulty is you've got to go from, you know, the median wage is 40 something thousand
00:37:11.680 | dollars. So I got to take my business to at least 40,000 dollars or I can't do anything or it's a
00:37:17.680 | no go. So it's either 40,000 dollars or nothing. But with a side hustle, you can build up a nice
00:37:23.200 | side income and an extra thousand dollars a month might make a very significant difference
00:37:28.960 | toward your goals, whatever they be. Whether it's paying off some debt or whether it's
00:37:34.800 | creating some increasing savings or purchasing a specific item that you're working toward.
00:37:39.440 | The thousand dollars a month can make a substantial difference and a thousand dollars
00:37:43.760 | a month is not an unreasonable number to get with a variety of different skills and interests.
00:37:49.680 | And so just the whole concept of being able to say where do my skills overlap,
00:37:54.400 | where do these different, what are my different ideas and then exploring them and see what takes
00:37:58.800 | off. Have you had any guests on your show who have done various things, multiple side hustles
00:38:06.080 | that have become in the aggregate a full time source of income? Well that's what I'm doing.
00:38:13.680 | But I'll give you the example. So my wife's side hustle of choice is photography. And so
00:38:19.920 | her and a friend, they were hobbyist photographers doing family pictures and stuff. And it was an
00:38:26.400 | interest that had grown over the years and then finally enough people were like, "You guys are
00:38:33.920 | kind of good." So they got the nerve up to put an ad on Craigslist and say, "We will shoot your
00:38:39.120 | wedding for you." I understand you're taking a big risk. We don't have any wedding pictures
00:38:43.280 | in our portfolio yet, but we'll shoot your wedding. And they started at like $200, very,
00:38:47.920 | very, very, very low end. Got flooded with responses. Never knew what to expect. Like
00:38:53.520 | who's looking for a wedding photographer on Craigslist? Apparently a lot of people.
00:38:56.240 | And so they immediately upped it to 500 and then they upped it to 1,000 and then they upped it to
00:39:00.640 | 2,000 and then they upped it to 3,000. And meanwhile, I'm out writing books and selling
00:39:05.120 | them on Amazon for 299 and she's like, "Oh, I just closed a $1,000 deal that I'm going to split with
00:39:10.480 | my partner." There's something that can scale up pretty quickly and it's a fascinating way to look
00:39:20.560 | at it. And it's just empowering. If your relationship with money is I go to work, I
00:39:27.280 | have this commute and I get my paycheck, it's really, really empowering and this act of
00:39:34.480 | independence when you earn that first dollar outside of your day job. Somebody who's not my
00:39:38.800 | boss paid me for something. I remember I sold my first book on Amazon two and a half years ago.
00:39:44.160 | It was like, "I'm a professional author." I was like, "This is crazy." And it was like 299.
00:39:49.280 | But it was cool. And so I got my first royalty check for $43.73. It was really, really, I don't
00:39:58.320 | know, it was fun. And you'll hear people's stories about like I made my first 11 cents on AdSense
00:40:06.480 | through my blog. It's these little things but it's fun to work on and see what can happen.
00:40:12.320 | Alright, I was hoping you would even mention your example of you. I think of photography as one of
00:40:18.880 | those great examples. If you think about how to be a professional photographer at the high end
00:40:30.240 | and you think about, "Well, I got to get a studio set up. I've got to have a portrait studio. I've
00:40:34.320 | got to create all these contexts." It's a little bit overwhelming. But if you just start taking
00:40:38.720 | pictures of your kids and posting them on Facebook and on your Instagram feed, over time a couple of
00:40:44.080 | your friends might say, "Man, you take some great pictures." And I've talked with even my wife and
00:40:49.920 | taking pictures of our family. I'm not so inclined to say, "Let me call up Joe's Professional
00:40:55.920 | Photography Studio down the road and set up a session." I'm a little intimidated by how...
00:41:02.080 | I'm a little intimidated, frankly, by Joe and by his prices. I don't really want to pay a thousand
00:41:07.280 | bucks for an afternoon's photography session. I don't know how much Joe charges but I'm less
00:41:12.960 | likely to actually go and hire him. But if I see my friend Katie, she always is posting great
00:41:20.640 | pictures of her kids and she has a real knack for getting the kid to actually smile and look at the
00:41:25.040 | camera. Then I might call Katie up and say, "Listen, would you be willing to do a photo
00:41:30.720 | shoot with my wife and I and we'll pay you some money?" Well, Katie could very easily make several
00:41:36.720 | hundred dollars plus on a Saturday afternoon's work down at the beach taking some pictures.
00:41:42.160 | That's much more empowering because now she's earning profit, not wages. And she's not time
00:41:48.320 | bound where, "Okay, I'm going to go and wait tables this certain amount. I'm going to make
00:41:52.560 | $13 an hour after tips." Rather, it's, "I'm going to build this skill and then I'm going to sell
00:41:58.000 | this skill." And that's frankly how my wife and I, we hired the friend of ours who photographed
00:42:06.160 | our wedding. We just liked her pictures. We didn't want a big professional outfit of a big fancy
00:42:11.360 | thing. We just wanted someone to take some nice pictures and she was able to do it. And it's her
00:42:16.320 | part-time thing but as her skills have grown, she's certainly earned plenty of money on the side.
00:42:21.520 | And these things can be integrated together. So whether it's a little bit of photography,
00:42:25.600 | maybe you have a skill of being able to help somebody write a resume and you market that
00:42:29.920 | among your friends. And when somebody's looking for a new job and you can market either among
00:42:35.520 | your friends or again externally, somebody's looking for a new job, they pay you 200 bucks
00:42:40.640 | for a resume review. And you can tweak their resume and you get pretty good at it. And there's
00:42:44.880 | a little idea or people who are fitness fanatics and they just start their own boot camp. And
00:42:51.440 | they're not trying to build a whole school but they have a few people that like having someone
00:42:55.920 | who's going to show up and hold them accountable and they do their workouts on the beach.
00:43:00.240 | Or whatever it is. And maybe some of these things can be integrated. So I think of somebody who's,
00:43:06.160 | for example, a real estate agent. Well, the income may fluctuate. You can list some houses
00:43:12.400 | here and there. But a couple houses every couple of months with some of these side gigs, now you've
00:43:16.320 | got a pretty nice living in a flexible manner. And you're thinking about what services can I
00:43:21.840 | bring to the marketplace instead of who's going to give me a job. Cottage industries. Have you
00:43:30.640 | talked about cottage industries on your show at all? Have any interesting examples?
00:43:35.600 | What do you mean by that? So what I mean is, for example, someone who's making baking bread
00:43:40.560 | and selling it or making candles, making handicrafts, things like that, selling them
00:43:44.320 | on Etsy, selling them locally, those types of actual physical products for niche, crafty type
00:43:50.320 | of things. I've talked with one Etsy seller and what I learned from that conversation was it
00:43:57.360 | doesn't actually at all have to be handmade. So she was selling digital financial planners,
00:44:03.680 | actually. And it's like, "Hey, I just created this template, upload a PDF file,
00:44:08.480 | and then you're good to go." So you don't have to be in your backyard whittling things or
00:44:14.080 | making jewelry or something like that, although you certainly could, to take advantage of some
00:44:19.280 | of these marketplaces. So a little bit more... Because my friend was selling blankets on Etsy
00:44:24.960 | for a while. And it's like, "You've got to charge a ridiculous amount of money to make this
00:44:29.040 | worthwhile." This is an $80 blanket now based on how much time it took me to find the materials
00:44:34.080 | and quilt it and do all this stuff. And it's like, "I can get the same or I can get the thing at
00:44:38.480 | Target for $5." And so that's a tough sell. But when it's something repeatable, when it's a digital
00:44:45.200 | thing, that's when I like the idea of Etsy. I think that there are some real opportunities in
00:44:53.040 | things like this. I don't know anything about selling arts and crafts, but there's a story I've
00:44:56.480 | been wanting to mention on the show and I'll go ahead and mention. I have a friend who is involved
00:45:01.200 | in the bee business. And he just has this little part-time hobby of keeping some hives of bees.
00:45:08.400 | But when he started telling me the numbers of the amount of money that he makes with his hives of
00:45:14.000 | bees, it's stunning to me how profitable this little side cottage business is. And with bees,
00:45:22.400 | the way that business works is you rent these hives of bees out to a farmer in order for them
00:45:28.640 | to pollinate their fields and you sell the honey. And it's farming. You've got to care for your
00:45:33.440 | animals, your bees, and you've got to make sure that they're healthy and there's a learning curve
00:45:36.560 | to it. But there's a relatively low barrier to entry. But the opportunity to buy honey that's
00:45:44.800 | local honey, that's probably pretty close to organic, or it's at least high quality and you
00:45:51.840 | know it hasn't been diluted with a bunch of syrups and sugar that's just been poured into it that
00:45:57.360 | you're getting at the grocery store. It commands a very high premium for raw, unfiltered, local
00:46:02.000 | honey. And just this total tiny little niche market with stunning profit potential, not
00:46:08.080 | necessarily that you're going to go and compete with the guys who are running hundreds of thousands
00:46:11.440 | of hives, but just on this very small scale in a local marketing effort. And I think there are a
00:46:16.320 | ton of these kinds of ideas that can be developed on the side, whether it's some farming venture,
00:46:24.240 | some handicraft, something like that, that with the ability to market, we should be paying more
00:46:29.840 | attention to how can I create a business rather than how can I go get a job, which is I think the
00:46:35.120 | essence of side hustling. It is. It's something that we, in college I ran a painting business,
00:46:42.640 | actually it was through one of the national companies, but they say, "Here's your territory,
00:46:46.800 | go out and paint as many houses as you can." And you just go out and had to hustle door to
00:46:51.520 | door to find business. And then the second year we got a little bit smarter and we set up a booth
00:46:55.680 | at the home show, we signed up a ton of leads and go out and do their estimates, say, "Hey,
00:47:00.480 | let's get this done." So yeah, I like your point on working for profits, not wages.
00:47:06.480 | I was a Jim Rohn quote, "Profits are better than wages. Wages will make you a living,
00:47:11.680 | profits will make you a fortune."
00:47:13.040 | Oh, okay. I like it.
00:47:14.880 | It's a well articulated quote. Well, Nick, this has been fun. I'd love for people, I mean,
00:47:21.680 | you've got a whole podcast, you've got a blog, you've got a whole site dedicated to this. I
00:47:24.720 | don't want to obviously try to rehash everything, but I wanted to give people some ideas because
00:47:29.040 | many times when you're thinking about earning extra income, immediately we go to, "I need to
00:47:34.400 | work extra." And that might have a place. For example, if your career is one where extra work
00:47:40.080 | can pay off, then you should probably think about that. If your career is one where there's a high
00:47:45.600 | degree of potential advancement, then you should, I think, primarily be focused on using your extra
00:47:51.200 | time to build your skill to reach at least the top 20% or the top 4 or 5% in your career because
00:48:00.000 | there's a lot of growth potential for many of us. But for many people, their careers are relatively,
00:48:05.760 | they're not dead end, but they're capped. They're not going to go above a certain amount that
00:48:12.080 | they're making and working a ton of extra hours is not going to measurably impact that.
00:48:17.280 | So in that situation, I think one of the ideas should be to pursue some sort of entrepreneurial
00:48:22.720 | side activity. And so for those who are interested in that, I'd commend your site,
00:48:27.120 | SiteHustleNation. Your podcast can be a useful way to just expand the creative juices of the
00:48:33.600 | different opportunities that are available to us. We live in an exciting time in which the
00:48:38.480 | individual can reach other individuals with valuable products and services more easily than
00:48:44.800 | it's ever been in the history of the world. Nick, is there a place that you would encourage people
00:48:50.320 | to start, some resources that you've developed, certain episodes of your show? How would you want
00:48:54.560 | people to start with your content if they come over and check out what you're doing?
00:48:58.080 | Well, on the podcast side, if you're in audio format, there's a different
00:49:03.520 | part-time business idea every week on the SiteHustle show. So you can search for that.
00:49:09.360 | And if you go to SiteHustleNation.com/ideas, there's a whole laundry list of different
00:49:14.240 | ideas to get the creative juices flowing for you. I might get started. What were the dog sites you
00:49:19.520 | said? Rover.com, what was the other one? The dog sit-in site? Dog Vacay. Dog Vacay. I might start
00:49:25.680 | doing that. I've got a big yard. I could handle the dogs. That might be one that we might have
00:49:31.600 | to check out. Perfect. Nick, thanks so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it.
00:49:36.240 | You bet. We'll talk to you soon. I hope you found that content to be useful to you.
00:49:42.560 | That's my major goal is to bring you ideas that are useful. Nick's really a great guy. I found
00:49:48.000 | him to be just so unassuming and just a real pleasure to be with even though we only spent
00:49:52.480 | a brief amount of time together when we met. But his site really is a neat wealth of resources and
00:49:59.600 | information for you. And so get on over and check it out. It's at SiteHustleNation.com.
00:50:04.880 | You can find Nick's story. You can join his tribe. You can find out some of the
00:50:08.960 | information that he's published. He's got a lot of really great information over there. And he's
00:50:12.720 | really building a really neat community of people. And from everything that I can tell,
00:50:18.000 | seems to be very straightforward and just doing a good job of giving great information.
00:50:22.480 | That's it for today's show. I thank you so much for being here. This week, I'm going to be bringing
00:50:27.440 | you a couple of things. I'm going to be digging into some detailed shows on qualified tuition
00:50:33.280 | programs, aka 529 plans. I'm going to give you everything that you need to know about that.
00:50:38.160 | I might do a little bit of tax stuff. I'm thinking about doing a show on mortgage credit
00:50:41.440 | certificates this week. Maybe it'll be this week or next week. I'm still working out the timing to
00:50:45.920 | see how many shows the 529 plan is going to be. But it's going to be a good week on the show.
00:50:51.840 | I've been doing some market research with members of the irregular program, and that's been helping
00:50:58.720 | to guide the course of the show. I'm finding that there's a lot of interest in investment topics
00:51:04.160 | and retirement topics. So I'm going to be bringing more content on that.
00:51:08.960 | It's starting to get a clearer vision of what I'm doing. I just want to thank you guys for
00:51:12.640 | the support and thank you so much for listening. If you would like to support the show, please
00:51:15.760 | consider joining the membership program. I'm in the process of transforming things,
00:51:23.200 | but put it this way. I don't plan to run a lot of sales, but the membership program is dramatically
00:51:28.000 | on sale at the moment for what the benefits are going to be. It's going to be kept on sale for
00:51:35.520 | those members who have supported it when there's really nothing there, which there's still nothing
00:51:38.800 | there. But if you want to support the show, head on over to RadicalPersonalFinance.com/membership,
00:51:45.600 | and you can find all the information on that and some new methods of supporting the show coming
00:51:50.000 | soon. That's it. Have a great day, everybody. Talk to you soon.
00:51:59.520 | Thank you for listening to today's show. If you'd like to contact me personally,
00:52:03.760 | my email address is Joshua@RadicalPersonalFinance.com. You can also connect with the show on
00:52:10.320 | Twitter @RadicalPF and at Facebook.com/RadicalPersonalFinance. This show is intended to provide
00:52:18.320 | entertainment, education, and financial enlightenment. But your situation is unique,
00:52:25.040 | and I cannot deliver any actionable advice without knowing anything about you. Please,
00:52:31.280 | develop a team of professional advisors who you find to be caring, competent, and trustworthy,
00:52:39.760 | and consult them because they are the ones who can understand your specific needs,
00:52:45.920 | your specific goals, and provide specific answers to your questions.
00:52:50.960 | I've done my absolute best to be clear and accurate in today's show, but I'm one person
00:52:57.040 | and I make mistakes. If you spot a mistake in something I've said, please help me by coming
00:53:02.480 | to the show page and commenting so we can all learn together. Until tomorrow, thanks for being here.
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