RPF0110-Christopher_DeLaney
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00:00:30.800 | Today on the show, we talk about saving money with bicycling.
00:00:34.720 | Even with a family.
00:00:36.560 | My guest is a man named Christopher Delaney, and he and his wife have two small children
00:00:42.880 | and manage all of their family transportation without a car.
00:00:48.320 | ♪
00:01:04.320 | Welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast.
00:01:06.560 | My name is Joshua Sheets. I thank you for being here.
00:01:08.960 | Today is Tuesday, December 2nd, 2014.
00:01:12.480 | And today, we're going to spend a little time on the saving money side of the equation.
00:01:17.600 | Talk about using bicycles as a form of transportation.
00:01:21.040 | One of the benefits is saving a bunch of money, but there are some other benefits as well.
00:01:25.040 | ♪
00:01:37.040 | My guest is a listener of the show. It's a man named Christopher Delaney.
00:01:39.600 | And he reached out to me and said, "Hey, if you're ever interested in doing a show on riding bikes,
00:01:43.840 | I would love to do that."
00:01:45.040 | And I responded right away to him and said, "I would like to do a show on riding bikes,
00:01:48.320 | because I'm totally intimidated by the idea.
00:01:50.320 | But I'd love to find somebody who's done it."
00:01:53.280 | And he kind of described the situation.
00:01:54.880 | I said, "This is perfect."
00:01:55.920 | And it's a great interview. It really is.
00:01:57.840 | It's an interview that's packed of information.
00:02:00.000 | No kind of like hardcore.
00:02:01.760 | I mean, it is pretty hardcore.
00:02:03.120 | Christopher's pretty hardcore.
00:02:04.320 | But he's pretty down to earth, so he's easy to talk to and easy to listen to.
00:02:07.520 | And he shares some very practical advice about using bicycles as transportation.
00:02:12.480 | This was something that I had also interviewed on the show, Tammy Strobel.
00:02:15.760 | And she's famous for writing a book, among other things, from Rowdy Kitten.
00:02:20.160 | She had written a book on how to live car-free.
00:02:22.400 | But by the time we had our interview, it wasn't something that she really thought much about
00:02:25.840 | or talked much about, even though she and her husband used bicycles a lot.
00:02:28.880 | So I wanted to bring another resource.
00:02:30.320 | So here I have an excellent show with Christopher Delaney.
00:02:33.360 | It's really good. I hope you enjoy it.
00:02:35.520 | Thanks so much for being here today.
00:02:37.520 | A couple of quick announcements.
00:02:38.640 | We're back in the saddle here after last week kind of missing out again.
00:02:42.560 | I apologize to all of you for missing two of those shows.
00:02:46.240 | I will-- again, I didn't-- I know better.
00:02:50.800 | And I was thinking, I've got to create a really great show.
00:02:52.720 | But I had interviews lined up, and I just should have prioritized and adjusted differently
00:02:56.160 | to get the shows done.
00:02:57.360 | So I apologize for those of you that wondered where we went.
00:02:59.760 | We're back now.
00:03:00.640 | And I anticipate a full month of December.
00:03:03.840 | I've got a bunch of great interviews.
00:03:04.880 | I've got a bunch of more topics.
00:03:06.080 | So we've got a lot to cover here in December.
00:03:09.120 | I've been thinking about what changes and what adjustments to make for next year.
00:03:13.600 | And so I'll talk more about that in the future.
00:03:17.200 | There are a lot of things I'd love to do, but it's just a matter of capacity
00:03:19.680 | as far as what I'm able to do with things going forward.
00:03:23.920 | That's always the challenge, the difference between what I'd like to do and what I'm able to do.
00:03:28.400 | I'm actually in conversations this week with a potential sponsor.
00:03:32.000 | That is the first sponsor that I've been able to find that I would feel good about introducing.
00:03:36.480 | To you, we'll see how those talks go.
00:03:39.360 | We'll see if we can reach an agreement that I think is a win-win for everyone involved.
00:03:42.320 | But if it works out, it's basically trying to answer the question that many of you ask me.
00:03:46.960 | How do I find a good financial advisor?
00:03:49.040 | And it's a financial advisor vetting service.
00:03:50.880 | And I think it's the best one that's out there.
00:03:52.480 | Not perfect, but I think it's the best one that I've been able to find.
00:03:55.600 | So we'll see if that works.
00:03:56.960 | So stay tuned for the show.
00:03:58.000 | We're going to have a great December here.
00:04:00.480 | Thank you all so much for being here.
00:04:02.080 | Here is Christopher.
00:04:03.520 | So Christopher, welcome to the Radical Personal Finance Podcast.
00:04:06.240 | I appreciate you being with me today.
00:04:07.760 | Absolutely.
00:04:08.320 | Thanks, Joshua.
00:04:09.600 | I'm honored to be here.
00:04:11.360 | Awesome.
00:04:11.920 | So I'm excited to talk about bicycling and bike riding as an alternative method of transportation.
00:04:17.680 | And I am a complete dunce when it comes to this topic.
00:04:21.200 | But I know that you are not.
00:04:22.880 | You and your family have been able to live successfully for at least some period of time
00:04:27.760 | without a car.
00:04:28.640 | And you said you have two kids, right?
00:04:30.400 | Yeah, I have two little girls.
00:04:32.800 | One of them is two years old and the other one is about six months old.
00:04:35.840 | Awesome.
00:04:36.640 | So tell me your story as it surrounds your ability to use a bike for transportation.
00:04:42.480 | I'm fascinated by this.
00:04:44.000 | Yeah, absolutely.
00:04:45.280 | I was, you know, my imagination was expanded greatly in about 2005 when I moved to Portland,
00:04:52.000 | Oregon.
00:04:52.720 | I grew up in Georgia.
00:04:54.880 | And, you know, in the South, there's really no alternative to using a car to get around
00:05:01.760 | places.
00:05:02.320 | There's no public transportation, very little bicycle infrastructure, if any at all.
00:05:07.920 | And I went to school in Alabama and got my first bike there.
00:05:14.800 | It was a mountain bike.
00:05:16.160 | And my roommate was the one that introduced me to riding a bike.
00:05:21.680 | To the grocery store or riding a bike to school or whatnot.
00:05:24.720 | Started doing that.
00:05:25.520 | Eventually decided it was time, you know, to leave Alabama.
00:05:30.640 | And I moved west.
00:05:32.320 | I lived in Louisiana for a little bit.
00:05:34.000 | And then I moved to Colorado.
00:05:35.360 | I was a ski instructor for a little bit and then met some folks there that lived in Oregon.
00:05:40.480 | And they invited me to come visit Portland.
00:05:42.640 | And so I went out there and fell in love with it.
00:05:45.200 | You know, decided a couple months later, I was going to go to California.
00:05:50.480 | Decided a couple months later to move to Portland.
00:05:52.720 | And I sold my car that was back in Georgia and went to Oregon with my guitar and a backpack,
00:06:01.600 | basically.
00:06:02.100 | Nice.
00:06:03.700 | When I got there, I found out the public transit was fantastic.
00:06:07.920 | You can take a train from the airport into the city.
00:06:10.960 | The bus system is great.
00:06:13.600 | And I used that for a while.
00:06:16.080 | And then I saw people riding bicycles around and decided, you know, that looks pretty fun.
00:06:20.320 | So I went on Craigslist.
00:06:21.680 | I found a cheap $150 bike that seemed all right.
00:06:26.480 | I didn't really know anything about bikes at that point.
00:06:28.960 | And started riding my bike around town and, you know, gradually went to more places.
00:06:36.800 | I was riding it to my school.
00:06:39.040 | And then I started going to the grocery store.
00:06:40.960 | And then I started, you know, going to visit friends and going to restaurants and bars
00:06:46.400 | on the weekend and things like that.
00:06:48.160 | And my confidence level started to increase.
00:06:52.000 | And I started riding pretty much everywhere.
00:06:55.760 | That lasted me up until the point when I met my wife and we got married about four years later.
00:07:01.840 | From when I had moved to Portland, she had a car and she, you know, she had a bicycle as well.
00:07:10.320 | But she wasn't riding her bike necessarily for transportation.
00:07:14.320 | It was more just for fun to meet friends at coffee shops.
00:07:18.000 | Or just ride around the neighborhood a little bit.
00:07:19.760 | And then when she met me, you know, I started rubbing off a little bit.
00:07:25.360 | You know, she would ride with me to a date night or a friend's house or something like that.
00:07:32.480 | And started, you know, expanding her imagination about what was possible.
00:07:36.320 | And she really enjoyed it.
00:07:37.520 | We moved right after we got married, we moved right away pretty much to Denver for a job.
00:07:46.240 | And in Denver, we found out that I needed a car to get to my job.
00:07:52.480 | So, you know, obviously we kept the car that we had and shared it.
00:07:57.600 | And basically, you know, I would use it to get to work.
00:07:59.520 | And then my wife had a bike that she would ride to just kind of get around the city there.
00:08:06.480 | We lived downtown.
00:08:07.440 | And, you know, I tried riding to work on my bike.
00:08:12.080 | It was 25 miles each way.
00:08:13.760 | I worked at the airport.
00:08:15.360 | And, you know, if you aren't familiar with Denver, the airport's 25 miles east of the
00:08:19.920 | city out in the middle of a bunch of farmland.
00:08:21.840 | It's very sparse.
00:08:23.600 | And it was pretty dangerous, in my opinion, for me to ride my bike out there just because
00:08:29.760 | of the speeds that people were traveling on these two-lane farm roads.
00:08:33.360 | My co-workers would regularly brag about, you know, going 80, 90, 100 miles an hour
00:08:39.520 | on these back roads and catching air over, you know, little hills that existed.
00:08:45.280 | And so, you know, I was commuting when it was dark in the morning and I just decided,
00:08:49.600 | you know, it's not worth it, you know, getting killed by one of my co-workers driving 100
00:08:55.040 | miles an hour on these farm roads.
00:09:00.400 | And so I pretty much resigned myself to driving the car every day.
00:09:07.760 | I wasn't super excited about it.
00:09:09.440 | But it was 25 miles each way.
00:09:11.040 | Pretty impractical for a daily commute on a bike to do 50 miles.
00:09:15.440 | You know, on my wife and I's radar, we didn't have kids at the time.
00:09:19.760 | And we wanted our life to be a little bit more localized where everything was, you know,
00:09:25.360 | within five or 10 miles and we didn't have to necessarily use a car.
00:09:29.120 | We started talking about what we would do when we got a family.
00:09:34.880 | And we had seen online and a few times in person this bike called a cargo bike.
00:09:44.720 | And it has a large box in the front.
00:09:48.240 | It's typically known as a Bock Feets.
00:09:50.240 | It came from Europe.
00:09:52.160 | And there are a couple of folks who make them here in the United States.
00:09:55.680 | And so we started talking to the people here in Oregon who made it.
00:10:01.120 | The company was called Metro Feets.
00:10:03.120 | We got our hands on one to test ride and absolutely fell in love with the bike.
00:10:07.760 | And we said, you know, when we have kids, we would love to get one of these bikes.
00:10:11.680 | And that would really help us continue to get around the city,
00:10:15.120 | but also reduce our dependence on the car that we had.
00:10:18.080 | And while we were in Denver, we had our first child.
00:10:22.480 | And we started strategizing how we could get the bike.
00:10:27.600 | At that time, you know, we couldn't really afford it.
00:10:29.200 | So we had to wait.
00:10:30.960 | And then we ended up moving to Wyoming.
00:10:34.800 | We moved to Casper, Wyoming.
00:10:36.160 | It's a small town, dead center of the state.
00:10:38.800 | About 50,000 people live there and move there for a job.
00:10:43.920 | And that's when we really started considering selling our car, becoming car free,
00:10:50.400 | and buying one of these bikes.
00:10:53.120 | In April of 2013, my wife said she was ready.
00:10:59.600 | And she was willing to at least try this as an experiment.
00:11:02.240 | And, you know, I'm pretty confident and motivated about, you know,
00:11:07.760 | using bikes for transportation.
00:11:09.040 | But I really didn't want to pressure her into that.
00:11:10.960 | I wanted her to come to that on her own.
00:11:12.560 | And so I just patiently waited for, you know, a couple years after we were married
00:11:17.600 | until she was like, you know, I think I'm ready to try this.
00:11:19.840 | And I'm really on board.
00:11:20.720 | So we sold our car and we got a Metrofeet's cargo bike.
00:11:26.000 | And we started living car free in Casper, Wyoming.
00:11:29.760 | It was an amazing experience.
00:11:32.720 | We both fell in love with it right off the bat.
00:11:35.600 | We really enjoyed getting around with our daughter in the bike.
00:11:38.480 | She was a little over one years old when we first started riding with her in the bike.
00:11:45.920 | I think she was maybe one and a half or two.
00:11:47.840 | And then in January of this year, we moved back to Portland, which is my wife's hometown.
00:11:56.080 | And, you know, we've been living car free here as well.
00:11:59.520 | You know, in addition to the bike, we also use the Zipcar membership, which is a car
00:12:07.520 | sharing program that allows us to have access to a car if we need it.
00:12:10.320 | And, you know, it's been pretty enjoyable and relatively easy for us, to be honest.
00:12:18.080 | But that's a little bit about our story there.
00:12:22.080 | So, I mean, you've got some credibility here.
00:12:24.320 | How long has it been since you actually sold your car when you were living in Wyoming?
00:12:31.040 | Two years?
00:12:31.540 | Almost.
00:12:33.680 | I think it's been about a year and a half that we've been car free as a family.
00:12:36.800 | Me personally, you know, I've been car free for the majority of the last decade.
00:12:42.400 | I think, you know, I had a car after I met my wife and we moved to Denver for two years.
00:12:46.480 | But, you know, after selling that, we've been car free for maybe about a year and a half.
00:12:56.400 | And also you've been able to live with one car for the entirety of your marriage.
00:13:02.640 | So, you know, even if many families just switch to having one car, I know that's what my wife
00:13:08.560 | and I have done, I couldn't see and still can't see any way that in where we live,
00:13:14.400 | in I think the biggest county in the United States with a very distributed, spread out
00:13:18.480 | lifestyle, I couldn't see any way to do without one car, excuse me, without a car.
00:13:22.960 | But even just going from two to one saved me so much time and hassle of fixing the thing
00:13:28.560 | and getting oil changes.
00:13:29.520 | And I was glad to get rid of that second car.
00:13:31.200 | Absolutely.
00:13:32.560 | If I could figure it out, I'd get rid of the first one.
00:13:34.400 | But I haven't been able to figure that out.
00:13:36.560 | It's tough.
00:13:37.760 | And I think it has to do with it's not an all or nothing decision.
00:13:42.160 | I think that would be more detrimental for people to make that as an all or nothing decision.
00:13:46.560 | It's more of a reduction mindset.
00:13:48.320 | So, you know, finding ways that you can reduce your dependence on that because it sucks so
00:13:55.760 | much money out of your life.
00:13:56.720 | You know, AAA says it costs nine thousand dollars a year to own and maintain a vehicle,
00:14:00.720 | not including car payments.
00:14:02.880 | And that was in 2013, I think, when that came out, 2012, maybe.
00:14:10.080 | So with inflation, you know, that number only keeps growing.
00:14:12.800 | But, you know, nine thousand dollars a year is significant.
00:14:17.600 | And if you can start thinking about ways to reduce your dependence on that and to be creative
00:14:23.680 | in structuring your life so you don't necessarily need the car as much, those things are definitely
00:14:32.320 | positive.
00:14:34.240 | And it can help people make a transition there when you view it as, you know, incremental,
00:14:39.840 | small incremental changes.
00:14:41.120 | Right.
00:14:42.640 | So I've heard of Portland being a bike mecca, but I haven't heard of Casper, Wyoming being
00:14:47.360 | a biking mecca.
00:14:48.400 | What's the difference between living in a place?
00:14:52.000 | And I assume I'm right about that.
00:14:53.680 | But what's the difference between living in a place where there is a well-established
00:14:58.240 | infrastructure versus a place where I'm assuming there's not?
00:15:03.120 | I personally think it's about the same because when we were in Casper, there might have been
00:15:12.400 | out of the 50,000 people that live there, there might have been 10 people.
00:15:15.840 | And that's being extremely generous using a bike for transportation.
00:15:20.080 | And I knew probably half of those folks.
00:15:24.240 | You know, I could see folks riding around and, you know, there's only 10 of us out of
00:15:29.200 | 50,000.
00:15:30.000 | So it was less than 1%.
00:15:32.800 | In Portland, about 6 to 10% of the population uses a bike on a daily basis for transportation,
00:15:40.880 | which is significant.
00:15:41.920 | Wow.
00:15:42.720 | But the 90% that don't are the same as the 99% or the 100% of people in Casper.
00:15:50.320 | So the attitudes of the city, the attitudes of the drivers are largely the same regardless
00:15:57.760 | wherever you live.
00:16:00.320 | You know, auto culture in the United States is very much considered an entitlement.
00:16:06.640 | And so, you know, being in Casper and riding a bike to me is no different.
00:16:13.520 | It doesn't take any more confidence or any less confidence than it takes to ride a bike
00:16:17.520 | on the streets in Portland.
00:16:18.560 | You're still up against pretty much the same barriers, the same challenges, whether, you
00:16:28.080 | know, aggressive drivers, city streets that don't support everybody using them.
00:16:34.400 | They only support one type of transportation.
00:16:36.480 | That's what I found.
00:16:39.200 | I mean, it is in a sense easier here in Portland, but not significantly, I don't think.
00:16:49.600 | Why do you do it?
00:16:52.240 | Is this like your crusade to support your political belief or personal values?
00:16:59.040 | Or is this just because you like being frugal and don't like spending money on a hunk of
00:17:02.240 | metal that sits in the garage?
00:17:03.680 | Why do you do it?
00:17:04.320 | Yeah, it's a little bit of both of those things.
00:17:07.520 | My wife and I have a very strong values attachment to this decision.
00:17:11.360 | But then at the same time, when we actually calculated our finances, we found out that
00:17:15.520 | we would save $700 a month by getting rid of our car.
00:17:19.600 | And so there's a huge financial benefit to making that decision.
00:17:24.320 | You know, and that's a composite number.
00:17:28.720 | It's different for a lot of people.
00:17:30.800 | But for us, we had a car payment.
00:17:32.320 | We had insurance.
00:17:33.200 | We had gas.
00:17:34.560 | And then we were budgeting money every month for maintenance because for whatever reason,
00:17:39.680 | the car that we had was sucking the maintenance life out of us.
00:17:45.120 | It was ridiculous.
00:17:48.400 | In any case, we decided $700 was about what we were saving every month on that.
00:17:53.840 | There also was a very strong values commitment because my wife and I have both spent time
00:18:04.640 | traveling internationally.
00:18:05.600 | We're very sensitive to the relationship between American foreign policy and resource extraction,
00:18:13.840 | i.e. oil, or what it takes to get that.
00:18:19.040 | There's another thing, too.
00:18:21.920 | I grew up in a pretty conservative religious family where you hear the term pro-life thrown
00:18:31.760 | around a lot.
00:18:32.800 | And one of the things that my wife and I were very passionate about is there's about 46,000
00:18:42.000 | people a year that die in the United States from automobile collisions.
00:18:47.520 | And that number, the UN says that's 1.4 million people per year in the world.
00:18:54.000 | And we thought that that was a pro-life issue.
00:18:57.440 | Decreasing our car use, in part, was because we want to prevent the causes of death.
00:19:09.360 | And that's one of the highest causes of death worldwide.
00:19:12.720 | From the externalities of it, when you look at things like climate change, when you look at
00:19:19.520 | the actual automobile collisions that are killing people, you look at the intoxication
00:19:27.760 | deaths that are caused by people walking, riding bikes, and driving cars that are intoxicated.
00:19:35.440 | That was one thing.
00:19:37.360 | Another thing, we definitely wanted to stop contributing money to this global war for
00:19:45.040 | resources and global war for oil.
00:19:46.800 | And we're not to the point where we're going to stop paying our taxes, but we did want
00:19:51.760 | to vote with our dollar, as it were, and stop giving money to the corporations and the governments
00:19:59.520 | that are creating these environments.
00:20:02.160 | I like that.
00:20:03.920 | It's nice to hear somebody integrate fully pro-life.
00:20:06.800 | It's one of the things that always bugs me, because I am profoundly, as a person, I am
00:20:11.520 | profoundly pro-life in every way.
00:20:14.400 | And it so bugs me when somebody says, "Well, I'm pro-life in terms of taking care of the
00:20:23.920 | babies, but we can kill all the other people on the other side of the world for useless,
00:20:28.720 | stupid reasons."
00:20:29.680 | Well, wait a second.
00:20:30.960 | Why don't you be a little consistent here?
00:20:32.800 | Why don't you be consistent with your beliefs, and you're either pro-life or you're pro-death?
00:20:37.760 | And so we have this odd mixture.
00:20:40.000 | Yeah, when people look at things factually, take Ebola, for example, that's killed, at
00:20:47.040 | high estimates, around maybe 10,000 people.
00:20:49.920 | With automobile culture and design and the way that we're using that technology, it kills
00:20:58.720 | 1.4 million people per year, and that number is growing.
00:21:02.560 | What's the more dire situation that we need to address as a global community?
00:21:08.240 | Not saying Ebola is not important, but if we were to look at the actual danger factor
00:21:14.160 | involved, I'm a pilot as well, and everybody knows the little statement, "You're more likely
00:21:21.840 | to die on the way to the airport than you are actually in a plane crash."
00:21:28.400 | Providing evidence that it is way more dangerous to ride in a car or to drive a car than it
00:21:35.200 | is to fly in this metal tube at 30,000 feet across the world.
00:21:39.280 | I think that was something interesting, and I'm a pretty passionate person, and so I was
00:21:45.840 | very motivated not to just talk about being pro-life, but to incorporate that into as
00:21:53.520 | many areas of my life as I could, and this seemed to be a very natural output for that.
00:22:01.840 | I like that, and the cool thing is it serves your own self-interest, too.
00:22:05.520 | You're healthier and you're richer, and you can support your values.
00:22:09.600 | It's nice when those things line up together.
00:22:12.480 | Sometimes you have to impoverish yourself a little bit, maybe, to stand up for some
00:22:17.200 | of your views and opinions and to fight for what you perceive to be right, but it's nice
00:22:21.840 | when you can fight for what you perceive to be right, and it puts money in your pocket,
00:22:25.120 | too.
00:22:25.280 | Absolutely, yeah.
00:22:26.720 | So, I am a novice when it comes to riding a bicycle.
00:22:32.480 | Obviously, I was a kid, grew up riding one, but I never even considered using a bicycle
00:22:38.160 | as transportation.
00:22:39.040 | A bicycle was just always something fun, and then where my living situation, where I live
00:22:45.840 | in Palm Beach County, Florida, it is one of the most spread out counties, I think, in
00:22:52.720 | the country.
00:22:53.120 | I can't remember, but it might be the biggest county in the country, or it might be.
00:22:56.480 | Maybe not.
00:22:57.200 | I don't know, but it's a pretty large one.
00:22:59.040 | So, I've always commuted.
00:23:00.560 | I always lived, when I was growing up, 20 miles from my school, and just always commuted.
00:23:06.080 | Never even considered riding a bicycle until my wife and I were married, and I started
00:23:11.440 | living in downtown West Palm.
00:23:13.040 | And I hadn't had a bicycle for years, and then we decided to get one so we could go
00:23:18.000 | on bike rides together.
00:23:19.280 | She had one that was left over from about sixth grade, and so we went down to Walmart,
00:23:23.360 | and I got a $99 special on a beach cruiser, a larger, tired beach cruiser, which was a
00:23:29.040 | little bit more suitable for my, and I'm about 6'6".
00:23:32.000 | But what I found is that it was cool, and it was pretty cool to be able to ride it around
00:23:36.800 | West Palm.
00:23:37.280 | We'd ride it down to the beach.
00:23:38.480 | We'd ride it, you know, the Green Market on Saturday morning.
00:23:41.520 | We'd ride down on Thursday night to the bookstore.
00:23:44.400 | Sometimes we'd walk.
00:23:45.200 | Sometimes we'd ride.
00:23:46.080 | But we wound up riding it a lot.
00:23:48.240 | And then, when we moved out to Palm Beach Gardens, we continued riding it, and then
00:23:51.760 | I wound up, it got stolen for reasons that, well, actually, I'll tell the story, 'cause
00:23:57.600 | this is kind of interesting.
00:23:58.480 | I rode it to the mall for, we live fairly near a mall, and so I tried to ride my bike
00:24:04.000 | instead of having to use the car.
00:24:05.600 | And I locked it one day.
00:24:07.200 | There were no bike racks, so I locked it to a railing, and I came back, and the bike was
00:24:11.120 | gone, and I deduced that it hadn't been stolen.
00:24:13.280 | It had been clipped by the security guards.
00:24:17.440 | So I went after him, and I found the bike and got them to actually, which is pretty
00:24:22.480 | cool, I got them to actually pay me the 20 bucks for the bike lock that they'd chopped,
00:24:25.760 | 'cause there were no bike racks there.
00:24:27.600 | And so they gave me the bike, and the head of security was so annoyed at me, he gave
00:24:32.480 | me 20 bucks from his desk to buy myself another bike lock.
00:24:36.240 | And then I rode it to my office the next day, and I didn't have a bike lock, and I was
00:24:40.080 | lazy about getting one, and three days later, it disappeared from my office.
00:24:43.360 | So I am now bike-less and have been for a year or so.
00:24:46.720 | I just switched to walking to work instead of biking to work.
00:24:50.600 | But what I realized was that my Cruiser was not the optimal choice for transportation.
00:24:56.320 | It was slow, and the tires were so fat, it wasn't very good.
00:24:59.440 | And I realized, I know nothing about bicycles.
00:25:01.880 | So if I were interested, since you've done this a little bit, if I were interested in
00:25:07.120 | actually saying, "I'd like to get a bike that would actually be useful and practical.
00:25:11.880 | I'm not sure about commuting every day, I'm not sure about being a nut like you and driving,
00:25:15.920 | what'd you say, 25 miles to the airport in Denver, but I'm interested in getting a bicycle."
00:25:24.120 | Where would I start, and what advice would you have for me as a novice person who rides
00:25:28.320 | a bicycle?
00:25:29.320 | Yeah, totally.
00:25:30.520 | There's a paradigm shift for most people that would be a good place to start.
00:25:37.280 | So when you're looking at a bicycle in the United States, a lot of people in their head
00:25:42.780 | are thinking recreation.
00:25:45.240 | And so when you make the switch to wanting to use a bike for transportation, you kind
00:25:49.240 | of have to think about things a little bit differently.
00:25:52.000 | So I like to use the car paradigm as an example.
00:25:58.960 | Would you buy a car sight unseen, offline?
00:26:03.700 | Probably not.
00:26:05.160 | Would you buy a car from a real seedy used car dealer in a bad part of town next to the
00:26:14.040 | payday loan office and the video poker establishment?
00:26:19.680 | Not if you listen to Joshua's show and have an ounce of common sense.
00:26:23.200 | Sure, probably not.
00:26:27.280 | People say when you start seeing strip clubs and payday loans, you know you're in a part
00:26:32.520 | of town that's just going to be trying to take advantage of you.
00:26:36.580 | And so that's where all the used car dealerships pop up.
00:26:40.440 | And if you walk into one of those places, you're just asking to be taken advantage of,
00:26:45.480 | unfortunately.
00:26:46.960 | Most people that are going to buy a car would do their research.
00:26:51.240 | They would connect with a mechanic, potentially, if they don't know what they're doing, because
00:26:56.960 | that way when they find something used, they can get it evaluated.
00:27:01.100 | And then if you're looking at purchasing something new, which I know is not very popular in the
00:27:07.680 | community that we're in, you would go do your research on a dealership and find one that
00:27:15.600 | is reputable, that's going to stand behind their vehicle, possibly offer a warranty as
00:27:21.080 | a part of that.
00:27:22.280 | All of those same considerations would apply to purchasing a bicycle for transportation.
00:27:28.320 | It's going to be significantly less money, so there's not as much pressure on the purchase.
00:27:34.480 | So some basic things.
00:27:36.560 | Now bike shops are offering loans for bikes or credit cards with their company.
00:27:42.200 | I wouldn't recommend going into debt for this at all.
00:27:47.800 | First off, if you have a bike, ride what you have.
00:27:50.160 | If you don't have a bike, buying something used is a good idea, spending as little money
00:27:55.200 | as possible for something quality.
00:27:56.900 | So just like with a car, the first thing I do is find a bike shop who will do a used
00:28:05.000 | bike evaluation for you.
00:28:06.920 | Very common, pretty much all bike shops will do it, all mechanics will do it.
00:28:13.640 | That's probably the first thing I do is find a bike shop and make sure that they will be
00:28:16.800 | able to do an evaluation on a used bike.
00:28:19.400 | Then get on Craigslist or whatever your online marketplace is in your city and find something
00:28:26.520 | local is preferable because then you can have it checked out.
00:28:30.080 | I would stay away from buying anything online.
00:28:32.720 | I would stay away from buying anything from Walmart.
00:28:35.120 | Walmart for bikes is the same thing as a seedy used car dealer in a bad part of town.
00:28:43.000 | I learned that with my Cruiser because it looked all fancy and shiny and I'm like, "Ah,
00:28:48.640 | it's cheap and it's great."
00:28:50.120 | And then I got it home and I parked it underneath an overhang and three days later, everything
00:28:55.000 | that wasn't the fancy shiny chrome frame was rusting and nothing, it just started falling
00:29:01.000 | apart almost immediately.
00:29:03.320 | So I recognize there's a little bit of a difference in quality between a Walmart bike versus what
00:29:09.600 | I would assume somebody else would be able to ride every day.
00:29:13.600 | Yeah, when you buy a bike from a department store like Walmart or the mall or whatever
00:29:21.320 | happens to be, the person putting that bike together is not a mechanic and they have no
00:29:26.760 | knowledge whatsoever of what that bike needs to be safe.
00:29:33.200 | And it may sound a little harsh and I don't mean it as a critique on the people that work
00:29:40.160 | in those establishments.
00:29:41.160 | I'm just speaking from experience that that's usually not a good idea because the bike is
00:29:46.240 | a machine and you wouldn't let a grocery store employee fix your car.
00:29:54.680 | For the same reason, I wouldn't let a Walmart employee build my bike.
00:30:00.380 | There are some safety considerations in that.
00:30:03.420 | So a good starting place, connect with a shop, find something used and do it.
00:30:07.520 | Now if you have the money and you want to get a new bike, that would definitely work
00:30:12.000 | in your favor because you'll rule out a lot of the mechanical problems that you'd have.
00:30:18.160 | Most bike shops in America are oriented towards recreation and fitness and so they're not
00:30:24.420 | necessarily oriented towards transportation.
00:30:27.340 | If you live in a larger urban area, you might be able to find a shop that is oriented towards
00:30:33.000 | transportation.
00:30:35.140 | Cities like Minneapolis, Austin, Denver, Portland, Seattle, LA, New York City, those are ones
00:30:43.320 | that come to mind that I know have transportation-oriented bike shops.
00:30:47.840 | Every other city in the country is going to have a bike shop more than likely and the
00:30:52.200 | sales staff is not necessarily going to know what is going to work well in a transportational
00:30:58.920 | sense so you'll need to do a little bit of internet research to find out what brands
00:31:04.480 | they offer and then what bikes within that brand work well for transportation.
00:31:09.560 | Some basic questions that you want to ask when you go in, make sure you say up front
00:31:12.840 | that you're looking to use this for transportation.
00:31:16.040 | Be ready for some really silly reactions.
00:31:21.400 | They might congratulate you and say, "We're really excited that you're taking this step,"
00:31:25.240 | or they might say, "That's impossible.
00:31:27.080 | There's no way that's going to work safely."
00:31:30.000 | Don't listen to any of the negative talk unless the person is knowledgeable, saying, "Stay
00:31:36.240 | away from this part of town," or, "Use these streets."
00:31:39.120 | If that's the kind of feedback you're getting, it's excellent.
00:31:41.800 | But if it's globally negative, like, "This is never going to work.
00:31:44.900 | This is the dumbest idea I've ever heard," completely ignore it.
00:31:48.200 | In any case, look for a bike that has the ability or already installed fenders and a
00:31:56.640 | front or rear rack.
00:31:59.760 | Usually a bike that will have those elements will be good.
00:32:04.520 | Things that are preferred are large tires and disc brakes.
00:32:08.560 | They work really well for transportation bikes.
00:32:12.020 | Not a necessity, but definitely preferred.
00:32:16.520 | And then you're going to want to make sure that you budget a little bit of money for
00:32:19.920 | accessories.
00:32:20.920 | So whatever your budget is, take 75% of that, spend it on the bike.
00:32:25.560 | Take the other 25%, and you'll need to buy, at the minimum, a front light and a rear light,
00:32:34.040 | white and red, respectively, and a U-lock, something that looks like a U or a D. Those
00:32:41.360 | are the most secure.
00:32:43.160 | And then if you've got a little bit of extra money on top of that, I'd look to buy waterproof
00:32:46.320 | bags and a rear-view mirror.
00:32:50.240 | And the rear-view mirror can attach to your bike or a helmet if you choose to wear one.
00:32:54.640 | Yeah, I've got to imagine with biking, the gear makes all the difference in the world.
00:32:59.640 | Just as simple as having a basket.
00:33:03.520 | So if you have something to put, or like I said, a bag to strap stuff to, that makes
00:33:08.840 | all the difference in the world.
00:33:10.200 | Absolutely.
00:33:11.200 | And there's so many choices.
00:33:12.200 | If you're a basket person and you want a basket up front to just toss your purse or your backpack
00:33:17.520 | in, that's really easy.
00:33:20.020 | If you like the waterproof bags that can strap onto your rack, that's really easy, too.
00:33:25.080 | And there are lots of great choices for that.
00:33:28.400 | But there's no reason to buy all of that up front.
00:33:31.400 | Just the lights and the lock are really what you need.
00:33:37.880 | So probably also, though, should you steer away from things like fat tires, like mountain
00:33:42.720 | bikes, I would imagine are probably suboptimal unless you're riding up and down a mountain.
00:33:47.560 | So you should probably get something with skinny tires if you're going to be on roads.
00:33:49.880 | Is that right?
00:33:51.120 | Not necessarily.
00:33:52.120 | I would actually prefer not to ride on skinny tires.
00:33:54.800 | My tires right now are the thickness of a mountain bike tire, but they don't have the
00:34:02.320 | little knobs on them like what mountain bike tires would have on it.
00:34:09.640 | They're smooth and they have a little bit of siping, so they kind of look like a smaller
00:34:14.760 | motorcycle tire, basically.
00:34:19.400 | It depends on where you live.
00:34:20.920 | I've met people that commute daily in Alaska, and they need what's called a fat bike, where
00:34:28.680 | it has these huge tires on it that run at really low pressure, and they ride over gravel
00:34:33.640 | and dirt and whatever.
00:34:34.640 | It depends on the safest way to get where you're going, what it looks like.
00:34:39.160 | For some people, I've spent a lot of time in the South, in Florida, Georgia, and Alabama.
00:34:45.280 | There are a lot of unpaved dirt paths that go places.
00:34:52.520 | That's why I like recommending buying a used bike first, because then you find out what
00:34:56.200 | you actually need.
00:34:59.060 | If you start off with a skinny tire bike and you find out, "Wow, the easiest way for me
00:35:02.960 | to get to work is to ride a little bit on this dirt path," then when you actually buy
00:35:08.640 | a bike new, you'll get one that fits your needs a little bit better.
00:35:12.920 | Right.
00:35:13.920 | Do brands matter?
00:35:14.920 | Is there a specific brand that you should look for that's a good entry-level brand,
00:35:18.800 | or does that just matter as far as what the bike shop actually carries?
00:35:23.880 | Branding is important only to the extent of the support from the manufacturer.
00:35:30.400 | Most bicycles that are sold in the world are either made in China or Taiwan.
00:35:36.640 | Those are really the only two places in the world.
00:35:41.320 | You can buy an American-made bike, but it will cost you thousands of dollars and be
00:35:45.680 | a little bit impractical for folks who are starting off.
00:35:50.440 | Bikes that are made in Taiwan are typically superior to bikes that are made in China.
00:35:57.360 | I would steer away from anything carbon fiber.
00:36:00.860 | That will not benefit you in any way.
00:36:07.040 | This goes back to the Walmart discussion.
00:36:11.680 | Brands usually partner with the shop to provide support for that bike.
00:36:17.760 | For example, if you went with a larger brand like Specialized, Trek, or Felt, Raleigh,
00:36:26.000 | there's maybe 10 well-respected manufacturers for bikes in the United States.
00:36:32.360 | They will offer excellent support for that bike.
00:36:34.280 | If something breaks on it, it can be warrantied.
00:36:36.440 | If you crash and you need to replace the bike, a lot of times they'll offer loyalty programs
00:36:41.120 | to replace the parts, even though it was your fault and it wasn't theirs.
00:36:46.360 | That kind of support is really invaluable to someone, especially if you don't have mechanical
00:36:51.080 | knowledge.
00:36:53.240 | Developing a relationship with a bike shop is very important because they can help support
00:36:58.640 | you.
00:37:00.640 | Flat tires, mechanical issues.
00:37:04.780 | Sometimes you'll be able to find riding support and group rides that will help you get a little
00:37:10.020 | bit more comfortable on the road riding with cars with other people who know what they're
00:37:14.420 | doing and they can help give you those skills.
00:37:17.420 | Those are all the things that come with a brand.
00:37:20.880 | Usually brands are exclusive at certain bike shops.
00:37:24.640 | One shop will only sell Trek.
00:37:26.680 | Another shop will only sell Specialized.
00:37:29.840 | The way that the manufacturers develop their relationships with bike shops is they mandate
00:37:35.320 | that orientation.
00:37:41.360 | It's important for the support aspect of it.
00:37:43.280 | For the actual rideability of the bike, they're pretty much all the same.
00:37:48.480 | They all have a chain, they all have gears, and they all have wheels.
00:37:54.280 | That's basically what you need.
00:37:56.360 | There's no reason to overcomplicate that.
00:37:59.820 | Pretty much all bike shops are going to sell essentially the same thing.
00:38:03.600 | You're basically buying into that brand support.
00:38:08.400 | When you're looking for a bike, you can go to a variety of bike shops and try things
00:38:13.760 | out.
00:38:14.760 | Ride as many bikes as you want.
00:38:17.040 | Bike shops are always happy to have people go in and test ride things.
00:38:21.840 | That would give you more of an idea of what you're drawn to, what style of bike you're
00:38:27.080 | drawn to.
00:38:28.080 | Dave: Is there a price range that if I were shopping for a bike for transportation that
00:38:33.000 | I would want them, for a new one, I'm sure used ones will vary, but is there a price
00:38:37.260 | range that would be a reasonable entry-level price range to consider?
00:38:41.760 | Ryan: Yeah.
00:38:42.760 | If you're buying a bike used, I would expect to spend around $500 for something that's
00:38:49.000 | high enough quality to use it for transportation.
00:38:52.640 | If you're buying a bike new, I would expect to spend around $1,000.
00:38:58.600 | It puts you in the middle bracket of what a bike shop will offer.
00:39:03.000 | You don't necessarily want to buy the cheapest thing possible.
00:39:06.480 | The cheapest thing possible is designed for someone who will occasionally use their bike,
00:39:10.720 | maybe a couple times a year to ride on a trail with family.
00:39:15.720 | Maybe the grandkids come and you pull the bikes out and everybody goes out for one day
00:39:20.200 | a year.
00:39:21.480 | The cheapest bike is designed for that individual.
00:39:25.120 | In the mid-range, you're going to find a lot of bikes that are good for everyday use, but
00:39:30.880 | that aren't so nice that you're afraid of it getting damaged or stolen or broken.
00:39:36.680 | The quality of the components is important when buying a bike for transportation.
00:39:42.080 | I would expect to say $1,000 is reasonable to get something that's decent, durable quality,
00:39:51.520 | but also something that is not so nice where you have to be afraid of locking it up outside
00:39:56.760 | the movie theater or something.
00:39:58.640 | For me, it was a slap in the face when I walked into a bike shop one time and here I am.
00:40:03.760 | I'm in the $99 Walmart special mindset.
00:40:06.200 | All of a sudden, I go in and it's $1,000.
00:40:09.600 | I couldn't believe it.
00:40:10.600 | I couldn't even conceive of it.
00:40:12.600 | I can totally see you're exactly right.
00:40:14.840 | If there's a big difference between how I often in the past used a bike where a couple
00:40:19.680 | times a year you brush it off and ride a few miles versus something that's designed to
00:40:27.000 | be used on a daily basis.
00:40:29.560 | I learned my lesson with my $99 special when stuff was breaking on it.
00:40:34.520 | I rode it more frequently than any bike I ever had and it fell apart.
00:40:39.040 | We have to think about it in terms of how important where you're going is.
00:40:44.760 | I ride to work every day.
00:40:49.600 | I am a responsible employee.
00:40:51.440 | I don't like to show up late.
00:40:56.040 | I don't like to call in sick and things like that.
00:40:58.440 | If I'm going to ride my bike in, I still want to be an excellent employee.
00:41:02.280 | I don't want any of those things to get in the way.
00:41:04.880 | I have really nice, rather expensive tires I've invested a lot in that don't get flat
00:41:12.320 | really at all.
00:41:14.840 | I have over 10,000 miles on one pair of tires and never had a flat, which is great.
00:41:21.340 | If you spend the money to invest in quality parts in certain areas of the bike, you can
00:41:27.840 | trust in that.
00:41:29.440 | I will leave a little bit more early than I normally would had I been driving to give
00:41:35.160 | myself some time just in case I get a flat or something happens.
00:41:38.760 | I'll have time to catch a bus or call a friend to get to work just in case something happens.
00:41:44.880 | It never has happened.
00:41:46.240 | I've never had to call in sick or call a friend or whatever.
00:41:51.720 | I like to know that I've built some extra time into my schedule so it's not going to
00:41:56.080 | affect getting to work on time.
00:42:00.400 | When you think about it that way, you don't want to skimp on the money.
00:42:05.380 | Skimping on the money side of things or skimping on the durability, sacrificing that could
00:42:10.740 | sacrifice another relationship that you have that depends on you transporting yourself
00:42:16.180 | there.
00:42:17.820 | If you're just using it to go to the grocery store, obviously at that point you could afford
00:42:25.740 | to skimp a little bit on durability because what are the consequences of you not making
00:42:31.900 | it to the grocery store?
00:42:33.140 | Not that great.
00:42:35.520 | No one's depending on you to be there.
00:42:38.500 | It doesn't mark negatively on your career if you don't get there on time.
00:42:43.120 | If that's your goal, then you don't need something as expensive or as durable.
00:42:47.540 | For me, my work bike, just to give you an example, with all the things I have on it,
00:42:52.460 | it costs about $2,000.
00:42:57.420 | I have a generator hub in the front that generates electricity when I pedal.
00:43:02.420 | It powers all of my lighting so I never have to change batteries and it's always on.
00:43:08.140 | I've got a rack with waterproof bags.
00:43:10.500 | I have a Bluetooth speaker that connects to my phone so I can listen to podcasts and the
00:43:14.420 | radio and make and receive phone calls while I'm riding my bike.
00:43:21.380 | Those are some of the things that help make that choice and that lifestyle a little bit
00:43:26.220 | easier.
00:43:27.220 | Dave: The cool thing is I remember reading, I think it was Jacob Lundfisker wrote an article
00:43:32.260 | and he just talked about how if you're going to have the best car on the road, it's going
00:43:37.580 | to take a lot of money.
00:43:38.580 | To have the best bike on the road, any normal middle class person could easily afford it,
00:43:43.660 | especially if it's their primary or at least replacing one of their cars.
00:43:47.460 | You go from a $5,000 car that's kind of middle of the road, pretty cheap car most people
00:43:52.820 | would consider, to a top of the line bicycle for $2,000, you're still saving money.
00:43:58.700 | The riding experience, the enjoyment of it would probably be substantially better by
00:44:03.080 | having something really nice so it allows you to make that switch away from the car.
00:44:11.300 | Ben: When you make that choice on a bicycle, it makes the price a little bit easier when
00:44:16.580 | it's a one-time thing.
00:44:18.460 | You buy a car, say a new car for $30,000 or $40,000, that car still needs you to put $100
00:44:27.220 | per gas tank in that thing to actually run.
00:44:30.260 | When you buy a bike, that's a one-time cost.
00:44:32.940 | That will always continue to work as long as you take care of it.
00:44:38.220 | It removes that embedded cost or the need for anything else to make it go.
00:44:43.140 | You just have to eat more burritos.
00:44:48.480 | Whatever it is, they say miles per burrito instead of miles per hour.
00:44:52.340 | Dave: How do you do this with kids?
00:44:54.380 | You've got two young kids.
00:44:55.380 | What are some tips and tricks for being able to do this with kids successfully?
00:45:00.500 | Ben: That is considerably more challenging.
00:45:05.340 | There are a lot of resources out there to help folks.
00:45:09.860 | I know it's kind of hackneyed, but we always point towards the European model in, say,
00:45:18.340 | Holland and Denmark because they have been doing this for a lot longer.
00:45:25.460 | They ride with kids, no problem.
00:45:28.100 | We look at their model, and a lot of them have special bikes designed to fit a child
00:45:34.100 | on them.
00:45:35.580 | When you adapt a bicycle that's normally found in the United States to carry kids, it doesn't
00:45:44.140 | necessarily make it functional for transportation because just the weight of adding a child
00:45:49.860 | to a regular adult bicycle eliminates the ability to carry actual cargo.
00:45:56.900 | You might be able to carry your child, but then you can't carry grocery bags and all
00:46:02.020 | the things that come with a child that you have to carry as well.
00:46:06.980 | Diapers and spare clothes and wipes and food and all these other things are extra.
00:46:13.260 | When you look at the European model, they have special bikes that are designed to carry
00:46:17.380 | children.
00:46:18.380 | A couple types of those.
00:46:20.460 | There's a tricycle model with two wheels up front and one wheel in the back.
00:46:24.980 | It's got a big bucket in the front.
00:46:27.540 | That's one.
00:46:29.340 | I don't necessarily prefer that, but it's definitely an option.
00:46:32.940 | Then there's a company that makes an extension to the back of an adult bicycle called an
00:46:37.980 | extra cycle.
00:46:40.300 | That's the style of bike called a long tail.
00:46:43.040 | Those are nice because kids can sit on the back and you have these two large bags that
00:46:47.100 | you can put things in.
00:46:49.380 | Then there's the Bockfeet style where you have this big box up front, and it only has
00:46:54.140 | two wheels.
00:46:55.140 | You steer with a steering linkage that goes underneath the box and connects to the front
00:47:00.540 | wheel.
00:47:02.060 | It probably sounds weird hearing that described, but if you duck, duck, go, a Bockfeet ...
00:47:09.140 | Thank you.
00:47:10.140 | I know what we're trying to do here.
00:47:14.980 | If you search for the Bockfeet style, it'll pop up and you'll see a picture of it and
00:47:19.060 | it'll make sense.
00:47:20.060 | They're not that hard to ride.
00:47:24.100 | When riding with kids, the first consideration everybody has, and justifiably so, is is it
00:47:29.860 | safe?
00:47:33.860 | That's very important.
00:47:34.940 | You need to be confident riding your normal route around your city before you want to
00:47:41.700 | carry your children.
00:47:43.220 | You want to know where the safe streets are.
00:47:45.820 | Safe streets are usually streets that have lower speed limits, ideally somewhere around
00:47:51.740 | 15 to 20.
00:47:53.740 | If your location ... I know being raised in the South, I know very few streets have that
00:47:58.940 | kind of speed limit.
00:48:02.020 | In grid cities, larger cities that have a well-established historic grid, you're going
00:48:09.300 | to find lower speed limits just by design.
00:48:12.540 | Those are going to be a little bit easier.
00:48:14.580 | Be confident riding in your context before you add a child to that.
00:48:18.620 | Even when you do add children to that, you want to make sure that they're safe and that
00:48:25.100 | you can see them and that they're strapped in.
00:48:29.260 | A lot of places mandate helmet use for kids, which is a great thing.
00:48:35.380 | Say here in Portland, any child, I think, under 12 has to wear a helmet.
00:48:41.820 | Those are just the basics.
00:48:44.540 | Both of my ... Our six-month-old is in a car seat strapped into our box.
00:48:51.220 | I've actually screwed attachments in there and locked her car seat down to it.
00:48:56.700 | Our other child is in a five-point harness style.
00:48:59.820 | Maybe you can include a picture of our setup in the show notes.
00:49:03.020 | Yeah, I'll make sure to do that.
00:49:06.220 | That's just one thing among many.
00:49:08.060 | You want to be able to carry all of your gear comfortably and be able to maneuver yourself
00:49:12.540 | on the bike.
00:49:14.020 | Carrying three kids with a 50-pound backpack, not a good idea.
00:49:19.140 | You want to be able to comfortably get on and off the bike.
00:49:22.260 | I like riding with a rear-view mirror because you can increase your situational awareness
00:49:27.100 | and know what's going on around you.
00:49:28.460 | That's really important for safety.
00:49:33.260 | All of the safety things taken ... Once you get that taken care of, it's really, really,
00:49:39.580 | really fun.
00:49:43.060 | That's one of the biggest reasons that we love getting around as a family on the bike.
00:49:48.380 | My kids love it.
00:49:51.740 | My two-year-old is always so excited to get on the bike.
00:49:55.020 | She sees the world in a different way, and she gets to interact with us in a way that
00:50:00.340 | she couldn't if she were strapped into a car seat or whatnot.
00:50:03.480 | She can turn around.
00:50:04.480 | We can look at each other.
00:50:06.020 | We can carry on conversations.
00:50:07.520 | We listen to music.
00:50:09.980 | She loves the Frozen soundtrack.
00:50:11.680 | We got that playing on the Bluetooth speaker.
00:50:14.380 | We're going down the road singing Frozen as loud as we can.
00:50:17.700 | It's a really fun experience.
00:50:22.440 | It's interactive.
00:50:23.700 | If you're driving in the car and your child is screaming and going nuts, it's very difficult
00:50:29.560 | to remedy that situation.
00:50:33.680 | If we're going down the road on the bike and my daughter starts having a meltdown, we can
00:50:38.660 | just pull over and figure out what it is.
00:50:40.740 | She's like, "Oh, I dropped my toy."
00:50:42.500 | Cool.
00:50:43.500 | I'll pull over, pick it up, give it back to her.
00:50:45.460 | We're back on the road, and everybody's happy.
00:50:48.660 | It's just more interactive.
00:50:51.660 | You didn't mention bike trailers.
00:50:52.860 | Do you use a trailer at all, ever?
00:50:55.300 | I don't.
00:50:56.620 | That was one of the main reasons that we got the box bike.
00:51:06.100 | Trailers are designed for the recreational side of things.
00:51:09.980 | If you're riding, if you look at any trailer website, they're going to show people on a
00:51:16.980 | recreational trail, not around cars, going rather slow when it's sunny and beautiful
00:51:24.380 | outside.
00:51:28.660 | That's how a trailer is really designed.
00:51:30.220 | When you use it for transportation, personally, I don't think it's very safe because the child
00:51:36.740 | is not connected to your bike other than this small connector that attaches to the axle.
00:51:45.580 | That makes me a little uncomfortable.
00:51:47.300 | It also is extended way past the bike in the back.
00:51:53.060 | Sometimes folks don't see that.
00:51:54.300 | If someone's driving behind you, they might see you on a bike, but they don't see the
00:51:58.780 | trailer which is much lower than you.
00:52:01.620 | There have been instances of people getting rear-ended from behind because the person
00:52:07.060 | didn't see the trailer, but they saw the person on the bike.
00:52:10.900 | Also, it separates you from your kids, so you can't really have a conversation.
00:52:16.140 | You can't really talk.
00:52:17.140 | They just sit back there and wait until you get to whatever your destination is.
00:52:22.900 | It's a great way to make your kid fall asleep if you want.
00:52:27.900 | That makes sense to me as far as kids.
00:52:29.780 | I had a trailer for my bike before it was stolen, and I would use it to go to the grocery
00:52:34.220 | store.
00:52:35.220 | I did find it's an easy entryway with my $99 Walmart special.
00:52:40.100 | I got a trailer from my brother and just stuck the thing on there.
00:52:43.780 | I was able to go and haul my load of groceries.
00:52:47.140 | I felt pretty crunchy.
00:52:48.140 | It was pretty funny going to the grocery store where I live.
00:52:52.300 | I could get good parking.
00:52:53.740 | The bike rack was empty, and I would park right in front of the store and just stick
00:52:56.740 | my trailer there on the sidewalk, which probably in biking places is a problem.
00:53:01.780 | It was kind of fun to go out with the Publix guy and load the bags of groceries into my
00:53:09.180 | trailer.
00:53:10.180 | He said, "Are you serious?"
00:53:11.180 | It was a good entryway to actually using a bike to haul some cargo.
00:53:16.420 | That's great.
00:53:17.420 | I love it for cargo.
00:53:20.300 | They're not designed for that either.
00:53:22.220 | Sometimes cargo can be really unstable in a trailer, but there are specific trailers
00:53:26.900 | designed for cargo.
00:53:27.900 | I'm not that supportive of carrying children in a trailer.
00:53:34.340 | Sure.
00:53:35.340 | I understand that.
00:53:36.340 | For transportation.
00:53:37.340 | Now, if you're doing it on trails on the weekend for recreation and it's beautiful and sunny
00:53:40.940 | outside, that's one thing.
00:53:43.980 | It's not that great for all types of weather.
00:53:46.020 | It's not that great for riding on the road with cars.
00:53:48.860 | It's not that visible and people aren't accustomed to looking for it.
00:53:53.940 | Those are the things that I would definitely encourage folks away from a trailer for a
00:54:00.580 | long-term plan.
00:54:02.340 | Short-term plan, yeah, it's great and easy to get into it, but long-term, I don't think
00:54:09.260 | it's the best or most ideal way to carry children on a bike.
00:54:14.580 | Last question I got and then I'll let you give it some thought and just see if there's
00:54:18.100 | anything else you want to share.
00:54:19.100 | A few years ago, I was in China and I noticed two things when I was there.
00:54:25.900 | Number one is there's a massive number of scooters.
00:54:29.780 | It was pretty cool to see.
00:54:30.780 | I mean, there's just bazillions of little itty-bitty scooters and they're all decked
00:54:36.060 | out with face shields and these gloves, these winter gloves connected to the handlebars
00:54:41.180 | so people could use them.
00:54:42.300 | There were tons and tons of those, which I think are an option that we should give a
00:54:47.420 | lot of thought to in the US, especially in urban areas.
00:54:50.940 | But then also, there were tons and tons of the bikes with the electric, the battery power,
00:54:56.420 | the e-bikes.
00:54:58.140 | What are your thoughts on that being helpful for somebody whose legs are not quite as strong
00:55:04.940 | as yours?
00:55:05.940 | Is that a helpful thing for someone to consider?
00:55:08.020 | I love e-bikes.
00:55:09.500 | I absolutely love them and I think that it's extremely positive.
00:55:15.740 | You talked about the trailer as being an easy way for people to get involved with carrying
00:55:21.700 | things on their bikes, whether it be kids or cargo or groceries, whatever it is.
00:55:26.460 | I think the electric bikes are the exact same thing, just for individuals looking to ride
00:55:33.300 | a bike.
00:55:34.740 | Not everybody's fitness level is the same.
00:55:38.820 | Not everybody's abilities are the same.
00:55:43.020 | There are some folks, maybe you're a lawyer and you live in Kansas or Iowa, a Midwestern
00:55:49.380 | state that's not that easy to get around on a bike, and that could open it up to you.
00:55:55.620 | Maybe there are folks out there who aren't that healthy and might have bad knees or physical
00:56:06.580 | issues that prevent them from pedaling for an hour on a bike.
00:56:11.300 | An electric bike could give you a little bit of fitness but also open you up to decreasing
00:56:18.700 | your dependence on the car and having more of an active lifestyle.
00:56:23.740 | I think those things are excellent.
00:56:26.380 | Even for folks who have the bikes that we're talking about, the larger cargo bikes, those
00:56:32.580 | are pretty heavy.
00:56:33.620 | If you have a mom that's carrying three kids and groceries in a box, or a dad, it's much
00:56:42.980 | easier to have an electric assistant there that would help you out.
00:56:46.040 | It makes that life transition much easier and, for a lot of people, it's a more sustainable
00:56:50.980 | option.
00:56:51.980 | Yeah, I can see that.
00:56:54.820 | My thing is I'm glad we are getting more options in this country.
00:56:59.260 | Thankfully, these days, I don't have to spend much time in rush hour, but any time I drive
00:57:04.300 | down here where I live, it's I-95, it's eight lanes.
00:57:07.940 | No, actually, it's ten lanes.
00:57:11.340 | Sometimes I have to drive down to Boca in rush hour.
00:57:14.060 | As I'm cruising along, I look at the tiny number of cars that are in the carpool lane,
00:57:20.300 | and I look at the massive number of cars that just have one person in it.
00:57:24.100 | It bothers the engineer in me.
00:57:25.620 | I just think, "This is so crazy inefficient.
00:57:28.180 | Why don't we all at least ride motorcycles?"
00:57:30.020 | I love to ride motorcycles.
00:57:31.020 | I was thinking, "Listen, you get a nice ... On a motorcycle, what I learned riding a motorcycle,
00:57:36.420 | you can get a very nice bike that's very comfortable.
00:57:39.240 | You get yourself a decent, maybe like an aero-stitch suit or something like that that's just on
00:57:45.260 | and off to cover up your street clothes, and you can be well-protected in case you go down.
00:57:50.740 | You can be much more comfortable."
00:57:53.940 | I just think of the money and the gas and the congestion and everything that we could
00:58:00.100 | save if we built more, if we just chose different options.
00:58:05.580 | We live in such a car-centric culture that you've got to be pretty counter-cultural to
00:58:09.300 | do it.
00:58:10.300 | Well, people have to think outside the box a little bit because what's happening in the
00:58:15.500 | United States right now is that we have developed in totality for the automobile and for individuals
00:58:25.620 | to drive cars alone by themselves, going one way.
00:58:31.620 | We've run out of money.
00:58:32.620 | Basically, the highway trust fund is empty.
00:58:38.500 | Cities and states cannot sustainably fund their road maintenance on their own, so they're
00:58:43.100 | looking for federal grants.
00:58:45.140 | The federal grants have run out.
00:58:48.600 | As a country, we don't have a way to pay for that anymore.
00:58:51.820 | The gas tax hasn't increased since the '90s, and inflation has increased, but now all the
00:58:58.660 | other costs have gone up, and we haven't funded that adequately.
00:59:05.140 | What happens in that case?
00:59:07.180 | They rob other pots of money.
00:59:12.260 | The extra money that is needed for road maintenance on a national scale comes out of the general
00:59:16.700 | fund.
00:59:18.540 | Instead of that money going towards healthcare or education, now it's going towards roads.
00:59:25.860 | The folks who live in this country will have to make a decision on whether that's a worthwhile
00:59:29.980 | investment to them.
00:59:31.700 | Personally, I think we could use the money a little bit better because obesity being
00:59:39.100 | such an epidemic in the United States, doing something that's active is beneficial.
00:59:44.860 | If you can also make that transportation, wow, you've killed two or three things with
00:59:49.900 | one stone now that maybe if a kid rides a bike to school, he or she gets to school more
00:59:58.500 | alert and awake, ready to learn.
01:00:00.900 | They've already done physical activity, and they haven't caused the damage to the road
01:00:07.340 | that a vehicle would.
01:00:11.700 | If you expand your conception of transportation, if you expand that concept out, it can really
01:00:19.580 | affect other areas of life in really positive or negative ways.
01:00:23.700 | I'm with you.
01:00:25.060 | It's funny.
01:00:26.060 | I'm so interested in education, and there are only a few things that I've seen at least
01:00:33.100 | research on that seem to actually make a difference in how well children learn.
01:00:37.980 | One of them is parental involvement, but one of the other ones is physical activity, is
01:00:44.100 | that the brain, when there's more physical activity, then the brain is more receptive
01:00:48.500 | and the person is able to learn more.
01:00:50.540 | But as you see budgets cut, one of the things that you see going is PE and physical time.
01:00:58.220 | I just think, why don't you scrap half of the academic classes and fill one of them
01:01:03.300 | with just total play, fill the next one with maybe some structured physical activity and
01:01:08.540 | structured games, and fill the third one with, I don't know, shop class or something, and
01:01:12.780 | you'll get better results in the three or four academic periods that you still maintain
01:01:17.300 | than you're getting with the six or seven that you're doing on a daily basis.
01:01:22.820 | If you're an adult, too, if you work for a larger corporation that has a more global
01:01:28.260 | footprint, a lot of them have a benefit for you to ride your bike to work, and they'll
01:01:34.220 | actually pay you to ride a bike to work.
01:01:38.060 | In the United States, a parking spot costs approximately $40,000.
01:01:42.460 | So if they can save providing parking for you, then they'll turn around and give you
01:01:48.220 | some of that money back, and that will help soften the cost of getting involved in this.
01:01:53.540 | But employers, they realize that, too.
01:01:56.180 | Employers want their employees to be physically active and to show up.
01:01:59.620 | They've also found that by paying people to ride their bike to work, they've seen their
01:02:03.940 | health care premiums go down over the whole corporation because now people are more active
01:02:09.620 | and fit.
01:02:10.620 | So the company is saving money.
01:02:12.660 | It's really a benefit, whether you're young or old.
01:02:18.180 | Wow.
01:02:19.180 | Very cool.
01:02:20.180 | Well, keep up your work, and it sounds like you guys are at least leading as an example,
01:02:24.420 | and I hope that more people follow.
01:02:26.380 | I think that's awesome.
01:02:28.300 | So anything you want to add as we go?
01:02:30.460 | No, I'm good.
01:02:33.700 | I think it was a great conversation, and I'm hoping folks find it useful.
01:02:38.780 | Very cool.
01:02:39.780 | Well, Christopher, thank you so much for coming on the show.
01:02:41.180 | I really appreciate it.
01:02:42.620 | Yeah, thank you, Joshua.
01:02:46.660 | I don't know about you, but for me, I figure if somebody can ride a bike in Colorado or
01:02:51.380 | in North Dakota or in Portland, I don't have much of an excuse down here in sunny South
01:03:00.220 | Florida.
01:03:01.220 | Thankfully, I've designed my life that I just don't really spend that much time driving
01:03:05.540 | anymore, and I'm making progress on that.
01:03:08.660 | But still, I don't have any excuse, and neither of us has an excuse.
01:03:12.060 | So take that.
01:03:13.060 | I hope you find the information helpful and inspirational.
01:03:15.580 | Check out the show notes for a link to a couple of articles on Christopher and his family.
01:03:19.460 | He's a pretty neat guy, and he hosts a—I don't think he mentioned it on the show, but
01:03:22.460 | he hosts, I think, some kind of weekly show on bicycling on a podcast or a local radio
01:03:28.300 | station where he lives.
01:03:30.180 | So check that out.
01:03:31.180 | I'll put links to that in the show notes.
01:03:32.180 | That's it for today's show.
01:03:33.180 | As we go out here, I thank you all for your reviews.
01:03:34.180 | If you've enjoyed the content, please give it a thumbs up.
01:03:35.180 | If you're new here, I thank you all for your reviews.
01:03:37.180 | If you've enjoyed the content, consider becoming a member of the show with the membership site,
01:03:41.540 | The Irregulars.
01:03:42.540 | There's lots of details on that, but that's how I've designed to pay the bills.
01:03:47.180 | I really appreciate those of you who have signed up.
01:03:49.700 | It means the world to me of your place and your trust and confidence in me.
01:03:53.460 | I really appreciate that.
01:03:54.980 | I also thank you for your reviews on iTunes and Stitcher.
01:03:57.580 | I'll read one review as we go out the door here.
01:04:00.240 | This review comes in from Dale and it says on iTunes, "The subject is informative and
01:04:05.920 | easy to listen to.
01:04:07.280 | Joshua is very well spoken, making this podcast very easy to listen to.
01:04:11.160 | The content contains very detailed facts and advice.
01:04:13.600 | I like that he doesn't generalize and recommend to everyone to do the same thing.
01:04:17.840 | He always points out that everyone's decision is dependent upon their personal circumstances,
01:04:22.120 | and then he goes into the detail behind what circumstances are appropriate for each option,
01:04:26.360 | giving us the necessary information to make our own decisions.
01:04:29.720 | Everyone's very well educated about the topics he covers and doesn't hesitate to let us know
01:04:32.880 | when he's not as well informed about a topic that his guest is describing rather than fake
01:04:36.880 | it.
01:04:37.880 | He does tend to be a bit long-winded, as I am kind of being here, but that's only because
01:04:41.800 | he has so much useful information to share.
01:04:44.600 | Great podcast.
01:04:45.600 | Dale, thank you.
01:04:46.600 | That's a very generous review.
01:04:48.440 | I don't know how long today's show is, but I don't think it's as long-winded.
01:04:51.280 | So in the case of the goal of not being long-winded, I'm done for the day.
01:04:55.240 | Peace out, y'all.
01:04:56.240 | [music]
01:05:03.240 | [music]
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01:05:32.240 | [music]
01:05:39.240 | [music]
01:05:46.240 | [music]
01:05:53.240 | Thank you for listening to today's show.
01:05:56.240 | This show is intended to provide entertainment, education, and financial enlightenment.
01:06:04.240 | Your situation is unique, and I cannot deliver any actionable advice without knowing anything
01:06:10.640 | about you.
01:06:11.640 | This show is not and is not intended to be any form of financial advice.
01:06:19.240 | Please, develop a team of professional advisors who you find to be caring, competent, and
01:06:28.240 | trustworthy, and consult them because they are the ones who can understand your specific
01:06:34.240 | needs, your specific goals, and provide specific answers to your questions.
01:06:40.240 | Hold them accountable for your results.
01:06:43.240 | I've done my absolute best to be clear and accurate in today's show, but I'm one person,
01:06:48.240 | and I make mistakes.
01:06:49.240 | If you spot a mistake in something I've said, please come by the show page and comment,
01:06:54.240 | so we can all learn together.
01:06:56.240 | Until tomorrow, thanks for being here.