RPF-0028-Follow_Your_Passion_is_Wrong_Career_Advice_sick_day
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00:00:29.000 | - Hey friends, good morning.
00:00:31.000 | This is Joshua Sheets and this is episode 28
00:00:34.000 | of the Radical Personal Finance podcast
00:00:36.000 | for today, Friday, July 25, 2014.
00:00:39.000 | I'm calling in sick again on the show this morning.
00:00:42.000 | As you can tell probably from the sound of my voice,
00:00:45.000 | I'm not quite really able to speak.
00:00:47.000 | I could barely get out a whisper this morning.
00:00:49.000 | But I didn't want to leave you without something
00:00:51.000 | thought-provoking for your Friday to take you into the weekend.
00:00:54.000 | So what I've chosen to do is today I'm going to play you
00:00:57.000 | audio from a speech by Cal Newport.
00:01:00.000 | And this audio that I've chosen, I found it on YouTube.
00:01:03.000 | You can see the link in the show notes.
00:01:05.000 | And this audio that I've chosen is from a speech
00:01:08.000 | that Cal delivered at the World Domination Summit
00:01:10.000 | in Portland, Oregon.
00:01:12.000 | The World Domination Summit is a project by Chris Guillebeau.
00:01:15.000 | And he brings together a bunch of interesting people
00:01:18.000 | for a weekend and they talk about how to change the world.
00:01:21.000 | That's the best summary that I can give it.
00:01:24.000 | Now I have never had the opportunity to do this
00:01:26.000 | and I have never had the opportunity to go in the past.
00:01:28.000 | I would like to go in the future.
00:01:30.000 | It just finished up.
00:01:32.000 | It was actually just a week or two ago, the 2014 version.
00:01:35.000 | But I'm hoping that in the future that I am able to go.
00:01:38.000 | Maybe next year. Maybe next year will be the magic year
00:01:41.000 | because it just seems like what an awesome gathering of people
00:01:44.000 | that Chris has put together.
00:01:46.000 | I would encourage you to check out--
00:01:48.000 | if you haven't read any of Chris' writing, you can find it
00:01:50.000 | at chrisguillebeau.com.
00:01:52.000 | C-R-I-S-G-U-I-L-L-E-B-E-A-U.
00:01:55.000 | Kind of the French spelling there.
00:01:57.000 | chrisguillebeau.com
00:01:59.000 | And he's written a book called The $100 Startup,
00:02:02.000 | which is a very useful book for someone who's interested
00:02:04.000 | in starting a business but put off by having the money
00:02:07.000 | to be able to do so.
00:02:09.000 | But this speech by Cal is basically,
00:02:12.000 | "Why follow your passion is the wrong career advice."
00:02:15.000 | And Cal's written a book called So Good They Can't Ignore You.
00:02:20.000 | Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest for Work You Love.
00:02:24.000 | It's an excellent book. I would commend it to you.
00:02:26.000 | You would notice if you listened to the episode--
00:02:28.000 | I think it was 25--with Jacob Lundfisker,
00:02:31.000 | Jacob actually mentioned this book and mentioned Cal
00:02:33.000 | as part of that conversation.
00:02:35.000 | So today's speech is about 30 minutes long,
00:02:37.000 | so you can expect the show to be about 30 minutes long.
00:02:39.000 | If you have the ability, you're in front of a computer,
00:02:41.000 | just click through to the YouTube video and watch it on YouTube
00:02:44.000 | if you'd like to see the visuals.
00:02:47.000 | It's nice to see him deliver the speech visually.
00:02:49.000 | However, there should be no problem.
00:02:51.000 | If you just want to hear the audio,
00:02:53.000 | there's nothing that he talks about that you need to see the video.
00:02:56.000 | But that's going to be today's show.
00:02:58.000 | I hope to be back with you ready to go on Monday morning
00:03:01.000 | for another week of great content.
00:03:03.000 | Thank you for sticking with me while I've been ill.
00:03:06.000 | [music]
00:03:09.000 | [applause]
00:03:12.000 | Thank you, Chris.
00:03:13.000 | Chris has been doing a great job, hasn't he?
00:03:15.000 | He's fantastic.
00:03:17.000 | [applause]
00:03:20.000 | Most of you don't know this, but during that last break,
00:03:23.000 | Chris visited three more countries on his list.
00:03:25.000 | He's really-- [laughter]
00:03:27.000 | He's an amazing guy.
00:03:29.000 | His publisher is here.
00:03:30.000 | We actually shared for a brief moment the same publisher,
00:03:33.000 | and I'm a little bit relieved that we don't anymore
00:03:36.000 | because when it came to the marketing meetings
00:03:38.000 | where you sit down and you give your plan
00:03:40.000 | for how you're going to market your book,
00:03:42.000 | nothing made it harder than knowing that Chris was just in there
00:03:44.000 | giving his plans for marketing his book,
00:03:46.000 | so you would show up and say,
00:03:48.000 | "I'm going to do some guest blog posts
00:03:50.000 | and a reading at the local Barnes & Noble."
00:03:52.000 | You know Chris was in there the day before with his plans
00:03:54.000 | to go to the bottom of every ocean
00:03:56.000 | and do a reading on Mount Kilimanjaro.
00:03:58.000 | [laughter]
00:04:00.000 | I'm glad I have left, and now I can feel a little bit better about it.
00:04:04.000 | I'm here to talk about career advice,
00:04:07.000 | and as Chris previewed, I want to push back
00:04:10.000 | against some ideas that we have taken for granted
00:04:13.000 | and sort of assume are true.
00:04:15.000 | I want to replace them with some more nuanced ideas
00:04:18.000 | that the evidence suggests might work better.
00:04:22.000 | This is sort of my professorial approach to these type of questions.
00:04:26.000 | I wanted to start with someone
00:04:28.000 | who I think would be well appreciated by this crowd,
00:04:30.000 | and that's the late Steve Jobs.
00:04:32.000 | In particular, I want to go back to the early summer of 2005.
00:04:37.000 | This is when Steve Jobs took the podium at Stanford Stadium
00:04:40.000 | in front of a crowd of 23,000,
00:04:42.000 | and he was there to give the commencement address
00:04:45.000 | to Stanford's graduating class.
00:04:47.000 | This was a big deal.
00:04:49.000 | Jobs did not give a lot of these sort of touchy-feely speeches,
00:04:51.000 | but he showed up.
00:04:53.000 | He may have been wearing sandals under his robes, which he was,
00:04:55.000 | but he did show up, and he gave his talk,
00:04:57.000 | and by all accounts, it was a really good one.
00:05:00.000 | Someone posted this unofficial video of it on YouTube,
00:05:03.000 | 3.5 million views.
00:05:06.000 | Stanford then released their official version,
00:05:08.000 | another 3.5 million views.
00:05:11.000 | I would assume that the number of people in this crowd
00:05:13.000 | who have not seen this video is very small.
00:05:16.000 | I mean, we could probably fit them in this sinister cage thing
00:05:18.000 | right here that Chris set up.
00:05:20.000 | (laughter)
00:05:22.000 | I sort of assumed when I came here for rehearsal
00:05:24.000 | that he was going to have an investment banker trapped in here,
00:05:26.000 | sort of slowly rotating around.
00:05:28.000 | (laughter and applause)
00:05:31.000 | Sort of disappointed.
00:05:33.000 | (laughter)
00:05:35.000 | So as most of you saw it, most of you know,
00:05:37.000 | he had quite a few interesting points in this talk,
00:05:40.000 | but there was one in particular that really seemed to get people fired up.
00:05:44.000 | And that's when he said, "You have to find what you love.
00:05:48.000 | If you haven't found it yet, keep looking. Don't settle."
00:05:53.000 | So judging by the news reports that came out right after this talk
00:05:56.000 | and the early comments on YouTube,
00:05:59.000 | it's clear that people interpreted him there as saying,
00:06:02.000 | "Guys, if you want to love what you do for a living,
00:06:05.000 | you have to do two things.
00:06:07.000 | First, figure out what you're passionate about,
00:06:10.000 | and then you have to second, match that to your work."
00:06:14.000 | Now we are used to this idea in sort of common slang.
00:06:17.000 | We summarize it with the phrase, "Follow your passion," right?
00:06:21.000 | And we say, "Follow your passion. This is what we're talking about.
00:06:23.000 | Figure out what you're passionate about, match it to your work.
00:06:26.000 | Things will be good."
00:06:27.000 | Now Jobs, of course, was not the first person to have this idea.
00:06:30.000 | You can actually go back, and I've done this,
00:06:32.000 | and track its emergence in the American cultural conversation.
00:06:36.000 | And here's my quiz.
00:06:39.000 | Which decade in the 20th century did the phrase, "Follow your passion,"
00:06:43.000 | first show up in the printed English language?
00:06:45.000 | Which decade? What would you guess?
00:06:47.000 | [Audience answers]
00:06:50.000 | I heard a lot, but I heard the loudest was 1940s.
00:06:52.000 | And that is actually right. I'm very impressed. Thank you.
00:06:55.000 | We have a cheater.
00:06:58.000 | [Laughter]
00:07:02.000 | And kids, that's the lesson. You know, cheat.
00:07:05.000 | Thank you very much.
00:07:08.000 | Yeah, it actually showed up in 1940.
00:07:10.000 | It was in a play, a short play. It was a bunch of woodcutters.
00:07:13.000 | It's not used in career advice format.
00:07:15.000 | In fact, I would not recommend trying to base your life off of this odd play.
00:07:18.000 | But that was 1940s.
00:07:19.000 | You actually don't see it being used in the context of career advice
00:07:23.000 | until the mid-1980s, and then you begin to see it show up.
00:07:26.000 | By the early 1990s, you start to see full career advice books
00:07:31.000 | written about this concept.
00:07:33.000 | By the early 2000s, people stop explaining it in their books.
00:07:38.000 | They stop trying to convince you it's good advice.
00:07:40.000 | They just assume that you know it.
00:07:41.000 | They just assume that you think it's good advice,
00:07:43.000 | and they jump right in to just trying to justify it.
00:07:45.000 | Or not justify it, but give strategies for taking action on it.
00:07:49.000 | So when Steve Jobs stood up there and promoted the idea
00:07:53.000 | that you should follow your passion,
00:07:55.000 | this was not the idea's introduction.
00:07:58.000 | It was the idea's apotheosis.
00:08:02.000 | We have this icon of American remarkable living
00:08:07.000 | who is giving his seal of approval on this idea,
00:08:10.000 | and this got people excited.
00:08:13.000 | And I'm not surprised that it excited people,
00:08:15.000 | because if you think about this piece of advice, "Follow your passion,"
00:08:19.000 | it is an astonishingly appealing concept.
00:08:24.000 | It tells you a life, a working life at least, that you love
00:08:29.000 | is not just possible, but it's very close.
00:08:33.000 | You have to do some introspection to figure out what you're passionate about.
00:08:37.000 | So you take a strength finder, you pour wax in the water,
00:08:41.000 | and if it solidifies like a microscope, you should be a biologist.
00:08:44.000 | Whatever you need to do.
00:08:47.000 | A little bit of introspection, doesn't take long.
00:08:49.000 | And then you have to go find a job that matches that.
00:08:51.000 | Now you're going to have to read some blog post that will inspire you first
00:08:54.000 | to get your courage up, but then you go and you get the job that matches it.
00:08:58.000 | Then you're passionate, right?
00:08:59.000 | I mean, you could be here in this audience today,
00:09:01.000 | you could be miserable about your life, and by playoff season,
00:09:04.000 | you could have a Steve Jobs-like love for what you do.
00:09:06.000 | Very appealing.
00:09:08.000 | But there is a wrinkle here, as Chris previewed.
00:09:11.000 | And the wrinkle is, as it turns out, this advice is not only astonishingly appealing,
00:09:15.000 | but it is also astonishingly wrong.
00:09:19.000 | And that's what I'm here today to talk about.
00:09:24.000 | So I spent much of the last year
00:09:26.000 | researching and writing a book that looked at a very simple question.
00:09:30.000 | Why do some people end up loving what they do, while so many other people do not?
00:09:36.000 | This was a transition period in my own life.
00:09:39.000 | I had just finished my very long career as a student, many years.
00:09:45.000 | And I was in a sort of purgatory known as a post-doc.
00:09:51.000 | And this is where, in theory, you're preparing yourself for an academic career,
00:09:53.000 | but this was a very sort of uncertain time for a couple of reasons.
00:09:56.000 | One, I was potentially about to do the only and last job interview of my life,
00:10:00.000 | since professorship could be a lifetime experience.
00:10:03.000 | And more importantly, it was a very hard job market,
00:10:06.000 | so there was a very good chance I wasn't going to get this job,
00:10:08.000 | and after all this training, was going to have to start from scratch.
00:10:12.000 | So in a massive abuse of my post-doc contract,
00:10:15.000 | I said, "What I'm going to do is go write a book instead,
00:10:17.000 | while they're paying me to do this."
00:10:19.000 | And I wanted to have an answer to this question,
00:10:21.000 | because I figured this was the time in my own life when I needed an answer.
00:10:25.000 | So there's two parts in this book.
00:10:27.000 | In the first part, I make my case against why "Follow Your Passion" is bad advice.
00:10:31.000 | In the second part, I talk about what you should do instead.
00:10:34.000 | And in here, I chronicle this quest I went on
00:10:36.000 | to find people from all walks of life who do love what they do for a living,
00:10:41.000 | and to hear their stories and look for patterns.
00:10:43.000 | What were they doing instead?
00:10:46.000 | So today, I want to tell you two stories.
00:10:49.000 | The first story I'll pull right from the first part,
00:10:52.000 | and we'll draw some lessons from the story
00:10:54.000 | about why I think "Follow Your Passion" is bad advice.
00:10:58.000 | The second story we'll pull from the second part,
00:11:01.000 | and we'll draw some lessons from that about what I think works instead.
00:11:05.000 | Okay, so that's our game plan.
00:11:07.000 | So I'll start with the first story, and I think we should pick up where we left off.
00:11:12.000 | We heard Steve Jobs' advice later in his career.
00:11:15.000 | I'm interested in going back and asking the question
00:11:17.000 | of how his own career actually began.
00:11:20.000 | So if we rewind the clock back to a young Steve Jobs,
00:11:24.000 | who's about to go to college and is trying to decide,
00:11:27.000 | "What am I going to do? Where am I going to go to college?
00:11:29.000 | What am I going to study?"
00:11:30.000 | You would have found the young man who was certainly interested in electronics.
00:11:35.000 | He had grown up in Silicon Valley's wirehead culture.
00:11:38.000 | This was a culture where young men and women would tinker with electronics
00:11:41.000 | much in the same way that the generation before would tinker with cars.
00:11:44.000 | That's what was happening around Silicon Valley at that point.
00:11:47.000 | So it was a hobby of his. It's something that he was interested in.
00:11:50.000 | But I'd make the argument that if you asked him,
00:11:53.000 | "Steve, what are you passionate about?"
00:11:55.000 | he wouldn't have said electronics.
00:11:57.000 | He wouldn't have said starting a technology company
00:12:00.000 | that's going to take over the world.
00:12:02.000 | And we know this because of his college choice.
00:12:04.000 | He didn't go to Berkeley to study electrical engineering,
00:12:07.000 | which is what you would have done in that time and that place
00:12:10.000 | if you were passionate about electronics.
00:12:13.000 | And he didn't go to Stanford or USC to study business,
00:12:15.000 | which is what you would have done in that time and that place
00:12:18.000 | if you were passionate about business or entrepreneurship.
00:12:21.000 | Instead, he came up here to a college not far from where we're sitting today,
00:12:26.000 | an elite liberal arts school known as Reed College.
00:12:28.000 | He went there, he was studying Western history, he was studying dance,
00:12:31.000 | and he started to dabble very seriously in Eastern mysticism,
00:12:34.000 | which had just made its way to the West Coast around this period.
00:12:38.000 | So he shows up to Reed College, he's studying these things,
00:12:41.000 | he's asking these big questions, he drops out pretty soon,
00:12:44.000 | he sticks around for a while, he wanders the campus barefoot,
00:12:47.000 | he's sort of like a campus celebrity, he eats weird diets,
00:12:50.000 | he's bumming meals from the local Hare Krishna temple.
00:12:53.000 | Eventually he gets tired of being completely destitute.
00:12:58.000 | So he comes back to California,
00:13:00.000 | and he talks himself into a night shift job at Atari,
00:13:04.000 | whose sole--one of the most important things about it
00:13:06.000 | was that it gave him flexibility so he wouldn't be tied down.
00:13:09.000 | This was a period in which he went and spent several months
00:13:12.000 | on a mendicant's journey in India.
00:13:14.000 | He was beginning to spend more and more time at the All One commune,
00:13:17.000 | just upstate, and became more serious about Zen meditation,
00:13:20.000 | frequenting the Los Altos Zen Center more and more.
00:13:24.000 | So this was jobs during this period.
00:13:26.000 | So where did Apple Computer come from?
00:13:28.000 | Well, he and his friend Steve Wozniak, who he'd reconnected with,
00:13:32.000 | had started launching what I think is best described as a series of schemes,
00:13:37.000 | where they would cobble something together,
00:13:39.000 | maybe sell it out of the back of a car, make a little bit of money,
00:13:42.000 | keep the wolf at bay, keep food on the table
00:13:44.000 | while Jobs was seeking and searching and tackling
00:13:47.000 | these deep philosophical and spiritual questions.
00:13:51.000 | And for lack of a better word,
00:13:52.000 | Apple Computer came out of one of these schemes.
00:13:55.000 | They had been tinkering more whys than jobs on a circuit board
00:13:59.000 | for what would become the Apple One.
00:14:01.000 | They took it to the Homebrew Computing Club.
00:14:04.000 | The geeks got all excited about it.
00:14:06.000 | I say this lovingly, being a professional geek.
00:14:10.000 | They get all excited about it.
00:14:11.000 | Jobs says, "You know, I think we can make a little bit of money off this."
00:14:14.000 | So he walks over to Paul Terrell's Byte Shop,
00:14:16.000 | which is this sort of pioneering electronics store over in Mountain View.
00:14:19.000 | The myth says he walked in barefoot,
00:14:21.000 | though we don't have evidence for that in the biographical record.
00:14:24.000 | But he walks to the store nonetheless.
00:14:26.000 | He brings in this circuit board, and he says,
00:14:28.000 | "Look, the geeks are excited about this.
00:14:30.000 | We want to sell you 100 of them. You sell them to the geeks.
00:14:32.000 | We'll all make some money."
00:14:34.000 | So, Andrew Young, one of his first definitive biographers,
00:14:37.000 | actually did, through interviews, the numbers they had worked out.
00:14:40.000 | And they said, "After he sells those, we get our cut.
00:14:43.000 | The cost of manufacturing, me and Waz will make about $1,000."
00:14:48.000 | And this biographer goes out of the way to emphasize
00:14:50.000 | that this was a small-time idea.
00:14:52.000 | Their plans were circumspect,
00:14:54.000 | and they certainly weren't thinking about taking over the world.
00:14:57.000 | Paul Terrell, fortunately, had more vision than Steve Jobs.
00:15:01.000 | And he said, "I don't want to buy 100 circuit boards to sell to geeks.
00:15:05.000 | I want to buy 500 fully-assembled computers
00:15:08.000 | with all the peripherals put in.
00:15:10.000 | I want to sell these like appliances,
00:15:12.000 | and I want to pay you 10 times the amount
00:15:14.000 | that you wanted for the circuit board."
00:15:16.000 | And Steve Jobs, to his credit, said,
00:15:18.000 | "Ah, I think this is something big that I'm on to."
00:15:20.000 | And they went, and they raised a little bit of money.
00:15:22.000 | They built these, they raised some more serious money,
00:15:24.000 | they incorporated.
00:15:26.000 | Apple Computer was born out of that.
00:15:29.000 | So the point I want to draw from this story
00:15:31.000 | is that I don't doubt that Steve Jobs very quickly grew
00:15:34.000 | to be very passionate about what he did.
00:15:37.000 | But it's also the case that he did not
00:15:39.000 | simply follow his passion into Apple Computer.
00:15:42.000 | He did not sit down and plan out in advance,
00:15:44.000 | "I want to start a technology company,"
00:15:46.000 | and then go and try to make that happen.
00:15:49.000 | If you had gone back in time, if we got in a time machine today,
00:15:52.000 | we went back and we said, "We're from the World Domination Summit."
00:15:55.000 | Six months before Apple Computer was formed,
00:15:57.000 | and we would have gone back and said, "Steve, you have to follow your passion,"
00:16:00.000 | he would have ended up an instructor at the Los Altos Zen Center.
00:16:04.000 | This was the things he was caring about.
00:16:06.000 | And I'm sure he would have been an insanely great instructor,
00:16:09.000 | and that the meditation mats would have been laid out
00:16:11.000 | in a sort of beautiful but functional design.
00:16:14.000 | (Laughter)
00:16:16.000 | But these were the type of things he would have said he was passionate about.
00:16:19.000 | So the lesson I wanted to draw from this story here
00:16:22.000 | is that the path to a passionate life is also,
00:16:24.000 | or often way more complex
00:16:27.000 | than the simple advice "follow your passion" would suggest.
00:16:31.000 | The person who I think said it better than me was Ira Glass,
00:16:35.000 | who's the NPR host of This American Life.
00:16:37.000 | Great show, great show on NPR.
00:16:40.000 | Innovative award-winning show.
00:16:41.000 | This is someone who loves what he does, very passionate.
00:16:44.000 | But you can find this video on YouTube, it's great.
00:16:46.000 | It's a video where three undergraduates sit down with Ira Glass
00:16:49.000 | to interview him for his advice on how they can build
00:16:52.000 | a really cool, remarkable life like his.
00:16:54.000 | And the one young woman says,
00:16:56.000 | "So how do I know what I'll be good at?
00:16:59.000 | What do I do once I graduate here?"
00:17:02.000 | And Jobs looks at her and says,
00:17:03.000 | "Well, you know, in the movies there's this idea
00:17:05.000 | that you should just go for your dreams."
00:17:07.000 | And you can see their faces light up.
00:17:08.000 | They expect this is where he's going to say,
00:17:10.000 | "And that's what you should do.
00:17:11.000 | And I'm going to call your mom and tell her
00:17:12.000 | that you're not a pre-med anymore," or whatever.
00:17:14.000 | You know, that's what-- you could see that expectation.
00:17:16.000 | And instead he says, "Oh, I don't buy that."
00:17:19.000 | And their faces kind of fall.
00:17:20.000 | And then he talks for a while about how hard it is
00:17:22.000 | to get good at something.
00:17:23.000 | And really what they need to be focusing on now
00:17:25.000 | is sort of persisting in the effort to get good at something.
00:17:28.000 | And he sees their faces fall.
00:17:30.000 | And at the end he says, "Really, the problem here, guys,
00:17:32.000 | is that you're trying to figure this all out in the abstract
00:17:35.000 | before you go and do it, and that's your tragic mistake."
00:17:40.000 | And I thought that was a poignant way of putting it.
00:17:42.000 | This notion that you can sit down there in advance
00:17:44.000 | and figure out what's going to lead to a passionate life.
00:17:48.000 | And the uncertainty and heartache that can bring
00:17:50.000 | when you don't immediately love what you're doing
00:17:52.000 | is a tragic mistake.
00:17:54.000 | So that's the first lesson I want to draw from this story.
00:17:57.000 | The second lesson is that we don't really have any reason
00:18:01.000 | to believe that follow your passion
00:18:04.000 | is actually generally good advice.
00:18:06.000 | So I'm a scientist.
00:18:08.000 | So my first inclination when I took on this project
00:18:10.000 | was to study the scientific literature.
00:18:12.000 | And there is a lot of literature on workplace happiness
00:18:15.000 | and workplace motivation.
00:18:17.000 | And if you look in this literature,
00:18:18.000 | you would think that you would find lots of support
00:18:20.000 | for this idea because this is one of the most popular ideas
00:18:22.000 | in modern American career thinking.
00:18:25.000 | But you can't.
00:18:26.000 | In fact, finding evidence that matching your job
00:18:28.000 | to a preexisting passion is good is very hard to do.
00:18:32.000 | What you find instead is studies that point
00:18:34.000 | in the opposite direction.
00:18:37.000 | So one of my favorites is by a young researcher
00:18:39.000 | named Amy Rizinski.
00:18:41.000 | At the time she was a graduate student at Michigan.
00:18:44.000 | She took a group of people, a group of employees,
00:18:47.000 | that all had the same position.
00:18:50.000 | They all worked in university administration
00:18:53.000 | just right at the same level.
00:18:55.000 | She interviewed them and she found out
00:18:57.000 | that a third of them saw this position as a calling.
00:19:02.000 | So a third of these people were passionate about this.
00:19:04.000 | It was an important part of their identity.
00:19:06.000 | It was an important part of their life, this position.
00:19:09.000 | The other two-thirds of people did not.
00:19:11.000 | Some of them just saw it as work.
00:19:13.000 | And the rest saw it as a stepping stone in a larger career.
00:19:16.000 | And they could take and leave what they were doing right then.
00:19:19.000 | So what I like about Rizinski is that she then said,
00:19:21.000 | "I'm going to dive deeper and I'm going to try to figure out
00:19:23.000 | "what's different between these two people.
00:19:25.000 | "What was different between the calling group
00:19:27.000 | "and the non-calling group?"
00:19:30.000 | And what she found was that one of the largest
00:19:33.000 | predictive factors of being in the calling group,
00:19:35.000 | if not the biggest predictive factor,
00:19:38.000 | was years of experience.
00:19:42.000 | The longer someone had this position,
00:19:45.000 | the more likely they were to see it as their calling.
00:19:48.000 | Which, of course, is a way more complicated story
00:19:50.000 | than "Follow Your Passion" tells us, which is,
00:19:52.000 | "No, no, no, you've matched this job to what you were meant to do.
00:19:54.000 | "You'll therefore immediately love it."
00:19:56.000 | And Rizinski's saying, "That's not what I found.
00:19:58.000 | "There's something more complicated happening here."
00:20:01.000 | Another study I like is by a Canadian psychologist
00:20:03.000 | named Robert Valorant, who had developed this survey
00:20:07.000 | that allows you to figure out what, if anything,
00:20:09.000 | is a person actually passionate about.
00:20:11.000 | Not interested, but actually passionate about.
00:20:13.000 | He has this survey, and he takes it and he administers it
00:20:16.000 | to 539 Canadian university students.
00:20:22.000 | He found less than 4% of these students had a passion
00:20:27.000 | that you could realistically connect to a career.
00:20:30.000 | Less than 4%.
00:20:32.000 | Do you want to guess what the number one passion was
00:20:34.000 | from among these Canadian university students?
00:20:37.000 | (audience) Hockey.
00:20:38.000 | It was a good crowd. It was exactly hockey, that's right.
00:20:41.000 | (laughter)
00:20:44.000 | And he was born in 1940, so you guys should know.
00:20:47.000 | That's right, it was hockey.
00:20:49.000 | Look, it's possible that this university
00:20:51.000 | had one of the most astonishing concentration of hockey talent
00:20:54.000 | to ever be assembled under one roof,
00:20:56.000 | and that they should all follow their passion
00:20:58.000 | and field nine different NHL teams.
00:21:01.000 | But it's more likely that for 96% of these students
00:21:06.000 | to tell them, "Figure out what you're passionate about and go do that,"
00:21:10.000 | would have failed for them as career advice
00:21:12.000 | in figuring out what to do right after school.
00:21:15.000 | So that's the second lesson I wanted to draw here.
00:21:18.000 | When you look through the literature, we don't have much evidence
00:21:21.000 | that this is generally a good piece of career advice.
00:21:25.000 | Okay, so that's the negative stuff.
00:21:28.000 | Let's go to the positive stuff. Fine.
00:21:30.000 | That may be too simplistic, might not be what the research shows.
00:21:33.000 | What does work?
00:21:35.000 | So as mentioned, I went around and I found lots of people
00:21:38.000 | who do love what they do, and I spent a lot of time talking to them.
00:21:41.000 | This is actually one of the dirty secrets of being an advice writer.
00:21:46.000 | Our actual number one skill we have--we don't talk about it much--
00:21:50.000 | is the ability to find people and convince them to talk to us.
00:21:53.000 | And that's actually harder than you think.
00:21:55.000 | I've been doing this since I was 21.
00:21:57.000 | When I was 21 and I had my first book deal,
00:21:59.000 | I had to go interview Rhodes Scholars.
00:22:01.000 | And the way I figured out to do it
00:22:03.000 | is you would actually read the news release from the college,
00:22:06.000 | you'd see who the Rhodes Scholars were,
00:22:08.000 | you'd then go search, typically the student newspaper,
00:22:10.000 | and you would find the naming scheme on their email addresses.
00:22:13.000 | Was it like first letter of the first name and then the last name?
00:22:16.000 | And then you would guess at what the Rhodes Scholars--
00:22:19.000 | you basically have to be a stalker to be an advice writer.
00:22:22.000 | (laughter)
00:22:24.000 | So anyways, I was stalking people as I normally do,
00:22:26.000 | and I tracked down a lot of these people, and we talked,
00:22:29.000 | and we tried to figure out what happened in their life.
00:22:31.000 | And I was looking for patterns, and I found a pattern.
00:22:34.000 | And not everyone followed this pattern,
00:22:36.000 | but it was sort of remarkably consistent.
00:22:40.000 | And one of my favorite examples of this pattern
00:22:43.000 | is the writer and activist Bill McKibben.
00:22:45.000 | I think his story actually personifies it well.
00:22:48.000 | So I want to tell his story, and then we'll look at it
00:22:51.000 | and try to pull out some lessons about the pattern that he exemplifies.
00:22:54.000 | So he did something that I think is smarter than just following your passion.
00:22:57.000 | So let's hear what that is.
00:22:59.000 | So Bill McKibben's story we can pick up
00:23:02.000 | as an undergraduate at Harvard University.
00:23:05.000 | So the thing about Harvard is that it's an extracurricular shop.
00:23:11.000 | I mean, the grade inflation at Harvard is so high
00:23:14.000 | that you can get an A- for spelling 9 out of 10 letters in your name
00:23:18.000 | correct on the test, right?
00:23:20.000 | So you have all of these type As who are here.
00:23:22.000 | They're all very achievement-oriented,
00:23:24.000 | so they put all this energy into extracurriculars,
00:23:26.000 | and they put down these extracurricular loads
00:23:28.000 | that make our full-time jobs seem like we're idle.
00:23:31.000 | So McKibben shows up, and he's like, "Well, what am I going to do?"
00:23:34.000 | And he decides he's going to write for the Harvard Crimson,
00:23:36.000 | this sort of fabled student newspaper.
00:23:38.000 | So he goes, and it's hard, you know, it's really demanding,
00:23:40.000 | but he works hard, and he works his way up,
00:23:42.000 | he stretches himself, he gets better at writing.
00:23:45.000 | By the time he graduates, he's an editor at the Crimson,
00:23:47.000 | which is a big deal.
00:23:49.000 | And then he gets a job at the New Yorker
00:23:51.000 | because he's been an editor at the Crimson,
00:23:53.000 | and now he has much better editors,
00:23:55.000 | he's been recognized by some of the best writers
00:23:57.000 | in American letters, and again, he's being stretched.
00:24:00.000 | He's not writing 10,000-word profiles,
00:24:02.000 | he's writing the talk of the town,
00:24:04.000 | but he's stretching, and he's working hard,
00:24:06.000 | and he's getting better, and he starts to make a name
00:24:08.000 | for himself there, and he starts to move up.
00:24:11.000 | But what I like about his story is the twist that comes next.
00:24:16.000 | So McKibben quits the New Yorker
00:24:18.000 | just as he's starting to establish himself
00:24:20.000 | as one of their star new writers,
00:24:22.000 | and he moves to a cabin in Vermont
00:24:25.000 | to write a book on man's impact
00:24:28.000 | on ecosystems and the environment,
00:24:30.000 | which, you know, 2012 in Portland is sort of old news,
00:24:33.000 | but back then, people didn't quite understand
00:24:35.000 | the scope of this, so he goes to Vermont
00:24:37.000 | with a book deal and a big enough advance
00:24:39.000 | to live there for however long it took to write this book,
00:24:42.000 | and he came away with The End of Nature
00:24:44.000 | was the book he wrote.
00:24:46.000 | And this was a big bestseller,
00:24:48.000 | but more importantly, it was an important book
00:24:51.000 | in the environmental movement, and established him
00:24:53.000 | as an important thinker and writer in this space.
00:24:56.000 | And it allowed him to go on and have a career
00:24:59.000 | living in a cabin, living in Vermont,
00:25:01.000 | but writing these sort of very cool issue books
00:25:03.000 | around environmental issues and other types of issues.
00:25:06.000 | He would come up with the ideas that were interesting,
00:25:08.000 | he would go around and research and write them,
00:25:10.000 | and they would all be very successful,
00:25:12.000 | and he was having a real impact on the world, too.
00:25:15.000 | And I've only met him in passing,
00:25:17.000 | but I've read a lot of the interviews people have done with him,
00:25:20.000 | and it's fair to say that he's very passionate
00:25:22.000 | about what he does, and he loves his life.
00:25:25.000 | So the question is, what lessons can we draw from him?
00:25:28.000 | What did he do, if it was not just follow his passion?
00:25:31.000 | Well, the first lesson I would draw from McKibbin's story
00:25:34.000 | is that he got good at something that was rare and valuable.
00:25:39.000 | In his case, it was writing.
00:25:43.000 | He got good, very good, at writing.
00:25:45.000 | It took him about a decade, right?
00:25:47.000 | He had to come up through the Crimson
00:25:49.000 | to get to where he was, but he got very good at writing.
00:25:52.000 | And this pattern is common when you study people like him
00:25:55.000 | who love what they do.
00:25:56.000 | They tend to start by getting good at something rare and valuable,
00:25:59.000 | something that the outside world says, "This is valuable.
00:26:02.000 | You are valuable now to our economy, to our field."
00:26:05.000 | The second lesson to draw here is that once he got good
00:26:09.000 | at something rare and valuable,
00:26:11.000 | he used it as leverage to gain into his life
00:26:15.000 | the type of traits that matter to him.
00:26:19.000 | So again, I'm extrapolating off of interviews,
00:26:21.000 | but given my somewhat obsessive stocking of Bill McKibbin,
00:26:25.000 | I can say that the three things that I think matter to him
00:26:27.000 | probably are simplicity in his life, autonomy in his life,
00:26:32.000 | and an impact on the world.
00:26:35.000 | Different people would have different answers to these questions,
00:26:38.000 | but that was probably what was important to McKibbin.
00:26:41.000 | So once he got really good at writing,
00:26:43.000 | he used that as leverage to get those traits into his life
00:26:46.000 | by moving to Vermont and being in a cabin.
00:26:48.000 | He had simplicity.
00:26:50.000 | By being a writer of nonfiction books, he had autonomy.
00:26:55.000 | He comes up with the idea, and then it's, "Go write it.
00:26:57.000 | Send it back when you're done."
00:26:59.000 | And he was writing about an issue that was important,
00:27:02.000 | so he had an impact on the world.
00:27:04.000 | He was having an impact on the conversation.
00:27:06.000 | So he used his ability as leverage
00:27:09.000 | to gain those traits that matter to him.
00:27:11.000 | Now, these two lessons come up again and again
00:27:15.000 | when you study people like Jobs,
00:27:17.000 | and when you study people like McKibbin.
00:27:19.000 | But I'd like to point out that there are some pitfalls
00:27:22.000 | that surround them that you have to be wary about.
00:27:25.000 | This approach kind of makes sense, but there are some pitfalls here.
00:27:28.000 | The first pitfall is that if you make the jump
00:27:32.000 | to try to get some of these traits that really matter to you in your life,
00:27:36.000 | if you try to make that jump without something valuable to offer in return,
00:27:41.000 | your chances at succeeding go way down.
00:27:44.000 | So if Bill McKibbin had dropped out of Harvard
00:27:48.000 | to move to Vermont to write The End of Nature,
00:27:51.000 | he almost definitely would have failed
00:27:53.000 | and had to have moved back to Boston,
00:27:55.000 | or even worse, gone to law school.
00:27:57.000 | (Laughter)
00:27:59.000 | Because first of all, he wasn't a good enough writer
00:28:01.000 | to get the advance that could pay for him to live there,
00:28:03.000 | and second of all, he wasn't a good enough writer yet
00:28:05.000 | to write a book of such impact and importance.
00:28:08.000 | It was important that he got good at writing first
00:28:11.000 | so he had something valuable to offer in exchange
00:28:13.000 | for these very valuable traits,
00:28:15.000 | like making a living with a simple, autonomous, impactful life.
00:28:19.000 | Another example of this I like is a computer programmer I met named Lulu,
00:28:24.000 | and she had gotten this job out of college as a QA tester,
00:28:28.000 | which is not the most glamorous of jobs in the sort of--
00:28:32.000 | you know, in the pantheon of Google writing the Gmail app on one end
00:28:38.000 | and sort of cleaning the lint out of the keyboards on the other end,
00:28:41.000 | and being a QA tester is sort of more towards the--
00:28:44.000 | you're basically pressing buttons and seeing if the software works.
00:28:47.000 | But what she did is she made herself rare and valuable
00:28:49.000 | by learning Unix scripting and automating most of their testing process,
00:28:53.000 | saving them a lot of money, saving them a lot of time.
00:28:56.000 | And as soon as she got good at this thing,
00:28:59.000 | as soon as she had value in this company, she immediately leveraged it.
00:29:02.000 | They said, "We want to give you a promotion,
00:29:04.000 | we want to put people under you, we're going to pay you more,
00:29:06.000 | you're going to have lots of responsibility and stress,
00:29:08.000 | and if you ever don't answer our email, we're going to panic."
00:29:10.000 | This is the standard thing you do when you get valuable.
00:29:13.000 | And she said, "Well, wait a second, you need me now.
00:29:16.000 | I'm not interested in your promotion, I want a demotion.
00:29:19.000 | I want to go down to 30 hours a week,
00:29:21.000 | which is the minimum at which I can still get health care,
00:29:24.000 | because I'm going to go get a part-time degree in philosophy at Tufts."
00:29:29.000 | She had value to use as leverage here.
00:29:32.000 | If she had walked in her first week and said, "This is boring,
00:29:34.000 | I want to go on a flexible schedule and go get a degree,"
00:29:37.000 | they'd say, "Well, how about you go to a zero-hour-a-week schedule
00:29:39.000 | because you're fired?"
00:29:41.000 | (Laughter)
00:29:43.000 | So that's the pitfall that surrounds it.
00:29:46.000 | Number one is that if you don't have something of value to offer
00:29:49.000 | before you go for these trades, it can be damaging.
00:29:51.000 | The second pitfall, and they sort of work together
00:29:54.000 | in a sort of insidious balance,
00:29:56.000 | is that once you actually are valuable to a field or valuable to a company,
00:30:01.000 | that is exactly when you're going to get the pressure
00:30:05.000 | to stick on the standard path of moving up the standard ladder.
00:30:10.000 | Suddenly now, people care about that.
00:30:13.000 | No one cares if you're outside of your parents,
00:30:16.000 | if you're a freshman in college,
00:30:18.000 | you say, "I'm going to go write a book," or something.
00:30:20.000 | But the editor of the New Yorker cares when they're rising star and you quit,
00:30:24.000 | because you're actually valuable to them at that point.
00:30:27.000 | So this is something I saw come up again and again.
00:30:30.000 | As soon as you were valuable enough to actually take control of your life
00:30:33.000 | and the pressure crashes down to take the promotion,
00:30:35.000 | to take the more responsibility, to take the bigger house,
00:30:38.000 | to stick on the straight path,
00:30:40.000 | I'm sure all the pressure in the world was on Bill McKibben
00:30:43.000 | to work up to be a senior staff writer at the New Yorker,
00:30:46.000 | start writing those sort of Adam Gopnik-style books
00:30:49.000 | that no one outside of the New York Review of Book Editor ever reads,
00:30:52.000 | but are very well respected,
00:30:54.000 | then get hired as an editor at some imprint or Harper's,
00:30:57.000 | then work your way up to be an editor-in-chief
00:30:59.000 | and be mortgaged for your apartment on the Upper West Side,
00:31:02.000 | and be successful.
00:31:04.000 | And that was the pressure he was getting,
00:31:06.000 | and that was exactly the point where he leveraged it.
00:31:09.000 | So that's the second pitfall here.
00:31:11.000 | As soon as you actually have some control over your life
00:31:14.000 | is when it's going to be the hardest to actually take that control.
00:31:18.000 | OK, so those were two lessons.
00:31:21.000 | Third lesson I want to offer,
00:31:23.000 | and this is often the most controversial when I talk about these issues.
00:31:27.000 | What you do for your work is much less important than we think.
00:31:34.000 | This is like a corollary of everything we've said so far.
00:31:40.000 | Bill McKibben built a life he loved as a writer.
00:31:43.000 | I would maintain that there are any number of other paths
00:31:47.000 | he could have followed
00:31:49.000 | that would have led him to a life that he loved just as much.
00:31:54.000 | I argue what mattered for him was the fact that he had autonomy,
00:31:59.000 | that he had simplicity, that he had impact in his life,
00:32:02.000 | that he had these general traits that were important to him in his life.
00:32:06.000 | So he got those by being a writer,
00:32:08.000 | but what was more important is that he got good at something valuable
00:32:11.000 | and used it as leverage to get the traits.
00:32:13.000 | And any position, any field of pursuit
00:32:15.000 | in which he could have got leverage and got those traits in his life,
00:32:18.000 | I would maintain that he would be just as happy
00:32:20.000 | and he would love his life just as well.
00:32:23.000 | And this was certainly the sense I got
00:32:27.000 | with the people I interviewed who loved their life.
00:32:29.000 | I got this sense that, look, it was these general traits they had.
00:32:32.000 | They're different for different people.
00:32:34.000 | Different people want different things.
00:32:36.000 | Some people want to be at the center of everything.
00:32:38.000 | Some people want to live in a cabin.
00:32:40.000 | Some people want impact.
00:32:42.000 | Some people just want creativity more than anything else.
00:32:44.000 | This differs for different people.
00:32:46.000 | But the sense I got studying these great examples
00:32:49.000 | was that it wasn't the specific work that mattered.
00:32:52.000 | It was these traits.
00:32:54.000 | And the get good and then exchange that value for these traits
00:32:57.000 | was the most consistent formula for getting those,
00:33:00.000 | the most consistent formula for loving what you do.
00:33:03.000 | Now, when I give this advice, people often push back
00:33:06.000 | and they say, "Are you saying that, you know, any job I take,
00:33:10.000 | "I can be, you know, just as happy?
00:33:12.000 | "I could be the guy at the zoo that shovels the elephant crap
00:33:15.000 | "and build a passionate life out of it?"
00:33:18.000 | No, I'm not saying that.
00:33:20.000 | But what I'm saying is that the threshold
00:33:23.000 | that a position or a pursuit or a college major must cross
00:33:27.000 | in order for it to be potentially the foundation of a life you love
00:33:31.000 | is much lower than we think.
00:33:33.000 | It's somewhere between,
00:33:35.000 | "Is this, like, my one true passion that for some reason
00:33:38.000 | "evolution has made my genes be wired for me to do
00:33:41.000 | "and only be happy doing this type standard that we have now?"
00:33:44.000 | Somewhere between that and shoveling the elephant crap,
00:33:47.000 | in between, there's a threshold that's much lower.
00:33:51.000 | And the way I define that threshold is that
00:33:53.000 | if something is interesting to you
00:33:56.000 | and if it looks like it will give you interesting options
00:33:59.000 | if you start to do well in it and start to become valuable,
00:34:03.000 | that's good enough.
00:34:05.000 | That's all you need for that particular job, that field or that major
00:34:10.000 | to be the foundation of a remarkable life.
00:34:13.000 | And for a lot of people,
00:34:15.000 | there's actually lots of things that match this criteria.
00:34:18.000 | That's OK. Flip a coin.
00:34:21.000 | I would go so far as to say flip a coin.
00:34:23.000 | Because, again, it's not the specific work that leads people to love it.
00:34:26.000 | It's not the fact that you're using the microscope
00:34:28.000 | or that you're actually writing that makes you love that work.
00:34:31.000 | It's these general traits.
00:34:32.000 | If it's interesting to you,
00:34:33.000 | that means you're going to be able to stick with it and get good.
00:34:36.000 | If it gives options to people when they get good,
00:34:38.000 | that means you're going to be able to leverage that ability once you have it.
00:34:41.000 | And that's what you need.
00:34:44.000 | So to summarize my contrarian take on this queer advice world,
00:34:49.000 | my reason for you throwing Chris's book out in disgust.
00:34:53.000 | (Laughter)
00:34:56.000 | Chris's book is not--
00:34:58.000 | By the way, it's a very smart book.
00:35:00.000 | It has lots of disclaimers.
00:35:02.000 | We're in very much agreement on this issue.
00:35:04.000 | I think he's just being facetious.
00:35:06.000 | Though I won't object if you want to throw out his book and buy mine instead.
00:35:10.000 | That's fine.
00:35:11.000 | He's made enough money. Come on.
00:35:14.000 | Starving college professor.
00:35:16.000 | (Laughter)
00:35:19.000 | Is that not a thing?
00:35:20.000 | Can I not get away with that?
00:35:22.000 | I used to do the starving grad student bit.
00:35:24.000 | This is getting harder.
00:35:26.000 | But to summarize what I'm saying here,
00:35:29.000 | since the mid-1980s, that's 20 years or so,
00:35:33.000 | we've been dominated by this idea that if you want to be happy,
00:35:36.000 | you have to figure out in advance what you're passionate about,
00:35:39.000 | and you have to match it to your work.
00:35:41.000 | You can actually look at this graph.
00:35:43.000 | There's a cool superimposed graph
00:35:45.000 | where you can actually graph the occurrence of the word "follow your passion"
00:35:48.000 | in printed American books.
00:35:50.000 | So as time goes on, you see this thing curve up
00:35:53.000 | and really shoot up in the '80s and '90s.
00:35:55.000 | You can put on that same axis American job satisfaction.
00:35:59.000 | (Laughter)
00:36:01.000 | In fact, let's just graph job satisfaction among 20- to 30-year-olds.
00:36:07.000 | People have a lot of options in their life.
00:36:09.000 | You see that plummet down starting in the '80s,
00:36:11.000 | just around the time that "follow your passion" started taking up,
00:36:14.000 | and you see it plummet down.
00:36:16.000 | In the last US Job Board survey,
00:36:18.000 | the rating among 18- or I guess 20- to 30-year-olds,
00:36:21.000 | their rating was the lowest it had ever been.
00:36:23.000 | It was actually the lowest rating for any group they've ever measured
00:36:27.000 | in job satisfaction.
00:36:29.000 | So my generation has grown up being told,
00:36:32.000 | "Figure out what you're passionate about and go for it."
00:36:35.000 | That's what's important.
00:36:37.000 | It's one of the most unhappiest generations there's ever been
00:36:39.000 | in terms of how much we like our jobs.
00:36:41.000 | And there's other factors there, but I think it's sort of a poignant display.
00:36:44.000 | Our 20-year experiment with "follow your passion,"
00:36:47.000 | I think we can say has concluded and has failed.
00:36:51.000 | (Laughter)
00:36:55.000 | (Applause)
00:37:03.000 | But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have the goal
00:37:05.000 | of being passionate about what we do.
00:37:07.000 | In the model I gave you instead, my hypothesis--
00:37:10.000 | I'm going to use my professor's speak--
00:37:12.000 | my hypothesis is the model that works instead is pick something interesting.
00:37:15.000 | If there's nine things that are interesting to you, throw a dart.
00:37:18.000 | Pick something that's interesting.
00:37:20.000 | Get good at something rare and valuable.
00:37:22.000 | While your friends are switching jobs nine times
00:37:24.000 | because they don't love it in the first week,
00:37:26.000 | take advantage of that to get better, to focus down,
00:37:28.000 | to do the satisfying work of craftsmanship,
00:37:30.000 | of building up an actual ability.
00:37:32.000 | Once you have it, that's where you apply the courage,
00:37:35.000 | at this point, to use it as leverage to gain the traits that matter to you.
00:37:40.000 | That's my new formula.
00:37:41.000 | I will summarize it for you to bring it back to where we started
00:37:44.000 | by saying, I guess the easiest summary here is,
00:37:46.000 | "Do what Steve Jobs did, not what he said."
00:37:49.000 | Thank you.
00:37:50.000 | (Applause)
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