Tips for B2B Sales Success and Social Selling on LinkedIn

00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)

00:00:02.580 | - You're listening to Let's Talk Jobs,

00:00:08.920 | where we give you practical insights into jobs and careers.

00:00:12.580 | I'm Tim Chen, and today we're talking about

00:00:15.400 | how to be an insight sales rep

00:00:17.360 | and the importance of social selling.

00:00:20.240 | Now, many studies have shown that customers buy a product

00:00:23.240 | if they have a good experience with the sales rep.

00:00:26.120 | In other words, inbound sales is the first experience

00:00:29.280 | someone has with your brand.

00:00:30.800 | And based on the interaction alone,

00:00:32.860 | you either earn or lose that business.

00:00:36.120 | Now, that's a huge responsibility,

00:00:38.340 | and it's why I have a deep respect

00:00:39.920 | for my partners in sales,

00:00:41.360 | and why I'm extra motivated as a marketer

00:00:44.000 | to set them up for success and send them high quality leads.

00:00:47.860 | Just think about it.

00:00:49.080 | If you recently made a large purchase for organization,

00:00:52.040 | and you're assigned an account rep,

00:00:53.760 | and something goes horribly wrong with onboarding

00:00:56.120 | or the product experience,

00:00:57.800 | who is the first person you call?

00:00:59.960 | For me, I call my sales rep

00:01:02.120 | because they have already built that trust with me,

00:01:04.440 | and I know they will help pull in the right people

00:01:06.560 | to figure it out.

00:01:08.220 | Nine times out of 10,

00:01:09.680 | that is a quicker path to escalation

00:01:11.320 | than going through my account rep

00:01:12.720 | at the start of a relationship.

00:01:14.600 | So today, we're going to have a chat with Laura Erdem.

00:01:17.720 | She leads a US sales team at DreamData,

00:01:20.200 | and is a good example of someone

00:01:21.520 | who is able to quickly build rapport with prospects,

00:01:24.400 | turn difficult conversations into deals,

00:01:26.800 | and is a master at social selling.

00:01:29.280 | In this video, she's going to give us practical insights

00:01:33.200 | into topics like how to upsell while also building trust,

00:01:37.720 | how social selling is a must have, and how to do it,

00:01:42.000 | and the importance of customer first selling.

00:01:45.380 | Now on that note,

00:01:46.320 | if you haven't read "The Challenger Sale"

00:01:48.320 | by Matthew Dixon and Brent Adamson,

00:01:50.480 | I highly recommend it.

00:01:52.240 | They provide a great practical structure

00:01:53.880 | on how to create a customer-centric sales approach.

00:01:57.200 | All right, let's get started.

00:01:58.760 | Hey guys.

00:02:00.720 | Today, we're talking about how to be a sales executive.

00:02:04.200 | Joining us is Laura Erdem.

00:02:05.760 | Laura, how are you doing?

00:02:07.280 | - I'm doing great.

00:02:08.160 | Thank you so much for having me, Tim.

00:02:10.200 | - Cool. I'm so glad you're here.

00:02:11.360 | You know, the sales organization in general,

00:02:13.880 | coming from marketing,

00:02:14.800 | is one area that kind of has a soft spot in my heart.

00:02:17.640 | So I'm definitely looking forward to this conversation.

00:02:20.080 | Can you tell us a little bit about what you're doing today

00:02:22.120 | and how long you've been doing it?

00:02:24.040 | - Absolutely.

00:02:24.880 | So I am a senior account executive at DreamData.

00:02:28.280 | So I basically do sales,

00:02:30.360 | the full funnel sales of our prospects

00:02:33.600 | coming inbound to DreamData and then closing them,

00:02:36.840 | only purely working on new business,

00:02:39.200 | and then it's passed over to customer success.

00:02:42.460 | Before DreamData,

00:02:44.140 | I used to work in much larger organizations.

00:02:46.760 | So first I was working at Red Hat for three years.

00:02:51.220 | Then I jumped over to Gartner.

00:02:53.280 | So I've been working a lot with enterprises

00:02:55.880 | that have very stable and set sales processes

00:02:59.540 | because they perfectly know their ideal customer profile,

00:03:03.160 | who they're selling to.

00:03:04.000 | You get a set accounts you're working on.

00:03:06.220 | So most of the work is actually farming than hunting.

00:03:09.320 | And when I joined DreamData, it was a totally new thing.

00:03:13.200 | And I still, till the day today, think like,

00:03:16.920 | okay, so what was the actual reason I ended up here?

00:03:21.160 | I absolutely do because there is so much flexibility

00:03:24.360 | and also a lot of unpredictability in this work.

00:03:29.360 | So if you like that type of work at a startup,

00:03:33.860 | it's amazing because you'll learn much more,

00:03:36.360 | but you'll learn by doing,

00:03:37.720 | which is also something people have to start choosing.

00:03:40.600 | - So it sounds like you're doing like a mixture

00:03:41.960 | of like inbound and outbound,

00:03:43.560 | but most of them are inbound leads.

00:03:45.000 | Does that sound about right?

00:03:46.640 | - Yeah, that's correct.

00:03:47.560 | So DreamData is very heavily marketing driven

00:03:52.040 | and product driven as well.

00:03:53.580 | So we have a very strong inbound marketing machine

00:03:57.460 | and we have a free product that people can come into.

00:04:00.720 | So most of the leads that I'm getting

00:04:02.640 | are coming inbound from marketing, sometimes from product,

00:04:06.320 | but still they're anyway are being fed from marketing in.

00:04:10.520 | And the rest of the leads that I am sourcing myself

00:04:13.600 | are mostly from LinkedIn,

00:04:15.620 | from the social selling activities that I do.

00:04:18.040 | - Cool.

00:04:18.960 | From the marketing campaigns that are driving your leads,

00:04:21.400 | are they a mixture of like your typical like webinars

00:04:24.320 | and ebook leads,

00:04:25.160 | or are they more like maybe further down the funnel

00:04:28.520 | where like they're looking for demos and whatnot?

00:04:31.720 | - I think it's even higher up.

00:04:33.240 | So when you think about webinars and stuff,

00:04:36.000 | it is the thought leadership,

00:04:37.920 | but we don't run that many webinars.

00:04:40.520 | I do myself run LinkedIn lives

00:04:42.680 | and those are mostly around sales and marketing topics,

00:04:45.620 | alignment and so on.

00:04:47.460 | But those are not the ones that are bringing

00:04:49.380 | most of our leads.

00:04:50.260 | So our CMO is really, really clever on demand generation,

00:04:55.260 | like the top of funnel thought leadership,

00:04:59.260 | where we do write articles that are easy to find.

00:05:02.380 | So SEO, big time.

00:05:04.760 | Where do we write articles?

00:05:06.300 | Where do we appear?

00:05:07.760 | And then when the prospects are actually looking

00:05:11.100 | for the solution, we better be there.

00:05:13.520 | So at that point, we definitely are places

00:05:17.380 | where people are looking for solutions like G2, Capterra,

00:05:21.940 | comparison articles, HubSpot,

00:05:25.380 | and all of those places where people get the credibility,

00:05:28.860 | okay, I'm ready to take the demo with this company.

00:05:32.180 | - That's really good.

00:05:33.380 | And I'm glad you brought up the value of SEO

00:05:36.700 | and just kind of fully activating kind of your,

00:05:39.540 | the cross-functional or multi-touch mix, right?

00:05:42.460 | 'Cause I think you're totally right.

00:05:44.140 | If people are able to discover your content,

00:05:46.620 | by the time they reach out to you,

00:05:47.900 | they might be a little more warm and a little less cold

00:05:50.140 | than someone just converting on an asset, for example.

00:05:52.300 | So I think that's really wise,

00:05:53.380 | especially going to G2 crowd

00:05:55.420 | and getting some external validation.

00:05:57.300 | And that actually leads me to another question.

00:06:00.260 | I'm kind of curious, you know,

00:06:01.300 | like you mentioned that obviously the leads come

00:06:04.140 | from various sources and various degrees of familiarity

00:06:07.660 | with your brand or product.

00:06:09.340 | How do you go and qualify leads

00:06:11.620 | or determine that they're actually a good fit

00:06:13.220 | for a company or your product and services,

00:06:15.700 | or maybe they're not necessarily the best fit?

00:06:18.820 | - Yeah, we have a pretty well-defined ICB for Dreamdata.

00:06:23.020 | So it is B2B SaaS companies that do have a CRM

00:06:28.020 | and most probably are above 50 employees

00:06:31.420 | and have at least one marketing person.

00:06:34.420 | And from there, then,

00:06:36.780 | well, I wouldn't say the sky is the limit,

00:06:38.740 | but B2B SaaS is still there

00:06:41.340 | and you have to be pretty heavy

00:06:44.220 | on digital touches as well as a company.

00:06:48.260 | So since we've got that defined,

00:06:50.620 | as soon as the leads are coming in,

00:06:52.180 | so I'm not getting the leads directly,

00:06:54.100 | as soon as they book, they book with me,

00:06:56.340 | they do go through a qualification.

00:06:59.540 | So if somebody books a demo with me, we still do qualify.

00:07:03.020 | So bigger companies, they do go into me.

00:07:05.780 | Could be that they're, I don't know,

00:07:07.940 | fully manufacturing B2B.

00:07:10.180 | Then I would have to qualify it myself,

00:07:12.620 | but most of that work is already done pre-booking the demo

00:07:16.860 | or pre-getting into a free pipeline

00:07:19.660 | that I need to pick up as an AE.

00:07:22.060 | But- - I see.

00:07:23.180 | - You're asking about how do I filter out

00:07:26.820 | what's right, what's wrong.

00:07:27.740 | Let's say a B2B manufacturing 10,000 people company

00:07:31.540 | comes over to me and the head of marketing wants to talk.

00:07:34.500 | Well, I very likely, I would take the call,

00:07:37.380 | even though this is not an ICP,

00:07:38.900 | because I would be curious, what are they looking for?

00:07:41.580 | Because maybe one day we would go that route

00:07:44.220 | and try to start to build a tool further

00:07:47.180 | for companies like that.

00:07:48.460 | But if it was a total misfit, first of all,

00:07:51.940 | I reach out to them through mail or through LinkedIn.

00:07:54.140 | So I connect with people through LinkedIn or through mail

00:07:56.740 | and ask what they're looking for.

00:07:58.300 | If it is totally out of scope to what we're selling,

00:08:01.300 | then I would suggest that we save each other's time

00:08:04.980 | and do not get on the call.

00:08:07.140 | If they do exist and would like to get on a call,

00:08:09.980 | then I would take it,

00:08:11.820 | but would try to keep it as short as possible.

00:08:15.260 | Sometimes, Tim, I do stuff.

00:08:18.460 | Meaning that if there is somebody who does not respond,

00:08:22.420 | and I clearly see this is not ICP,

00:08:24.660 | a company definitely does not need our service,

00:08:27.380 | or if they need, they envision something totally different.

00:08:29.580 | Like let's say they are, I don't know, B2C.

00:08:32.220 | - Yeah.

00:08:33.060 | - Then I do write an email to them.

00:08:35.260 | If I don't get a response,

00:08:36.740 | then I send a second email just before the meeting,

00:08:39.660 | and I do cancel the meeting saying that,

00:08:41.500 | "I'm sorry, I don't think it's a fit.

00:08:43.620 | And if you think this is a mistake,

00:08:45.580 | please reach out again and book a demo again."

00:08:48.540 | Never happens.

00:08:49.460 | So they don't have to book.

00:08:50.980 | - Yeah. (laughs)

00:08:52.380 | You know, I don't know if I told you this, Laura,

00:08:54.780 | I had one taste of experience as a sales rep,

00:08:58.740 | and it scared the bejesus out of me.

00:09:01.140 | 'Cause it made me wonder,

00:09:01.980 | like, do I have what it takes to do this?

00:09:04.580 | Early 2000, I graduated from college.

00:09:07.540 | I'm gonna age myself here.

00:09:08.860 | And I graduated with a marketing degree.

00:09:11.820 | But if you remember like early 2000, 2001,

00:09:13.580 | it was like the dot-com bubble burst, right?

00:09:15.500 | So like marketing was like the last position

00:09:17.740 | people were hiring for.

00:09:19.060 | I remember one of the temp jobs I had

00:09:20.860 | was through Wells Fargo.

00:09:22.700 | And I was in the collections department

00:09:26.860 | where you're on an automated dialer.

00:09:28.340 | And so for those listening, automated dialer means

00:09:30.780 | there's a computer that has a list of names,

00:09:33.060 | and it's making a call for you,

00:09:34.580 | so you don't have to input it.

00:09:36.100 | The challenge is sometimes you're on a current call,

00:09:39.900 | and the dialer already called the next person.

00:09:42.780 | So they're like, "Hello? Who's there? Hello?"

00:09:45.060 | So by the time you pick up, they're already angry.

00:09:47.700 | And it taught me a lot about how to deal with rejection,

00:09:52.020 | how to deal with angry people,

00:09:53.540 | and kind of set the tone for a call.

00:09:55.780 | I'm kind of curious, as you're doing these conversations,

00:09:58.820 | you know, there are various degrees of calling.

00:10:01.500 | Some of them seem like they've been screened already,

00:10:03.380 | so maybe hopefully not as cold,

00:10:05.180 | but what does your typical call look like?

00:10:07.020 | Like, how do you build trust and credibility

00:10:09.180 | with your prospect?

00:10:11.100 | And again, what attracted me in your LinkedIn posts

00:10:14.500 | is how you seem to be naturally good

00:10:16.820 | at naturally relationship building.

00:10:19.020 | So how does a typical call look like for you,

00:10:21.620 | and how do you diffuse all that

00:10:22.980 | and turn it into a productive conversation?

00:10:25.620 | - Absolutely, Tim, this is hardcore.

00:10:27.820 | The phone call thing that you're reflecting to,

00:10:30.700 | I'm not sure if I would be able to do that.

00:10:32.940 | Earlier in my career,

00:10:34.220 | I used to work at the luggage tracing department

00:10:38.380 | as a call center.

00:10:41.220 | And that was rough because people used to call us

00:10:44.900 | who already lost their luggage.

00:10:46.940 | So imagine that.

00:10:48.540 | Okay, so let's take this down a bit.

00:10:51.380 | Like, how does it look?

00:10:52.380 | And I don't want to tell you this.

00:10:54.700 | That's where I learned stuff like that,

00:10:57.340 | like empathy for people.

00:10:59.380 | You're trying to solve a problem.

00:11:01.740 | So I'm not going to solve a problem,

00:11:05.780 | but I'll do my best to listen it out

00:11:08.380 | and try to find what's the best solution for you.

00:11:11.860 | So just like when looking for your luggage,

00:11:14.580 | I have to figure out how does it look,

00:11:16.460 | what's in it, and so on,

00:11:17.780 | and which airport might it be lost in.

00:11:20.780 | It is exactly the same with people.

00:11:22.820 | So you're calling me, you're trying to solve a problem.

00:11:26.380 | You're not calling me,

00:11:27.220 | you're probably booking a demo or getting a free account.

00:11:30.660 | So I will do my best to first figure out where does it hurt?

00:11:34.500 | What is the problem that you're trying to solve?

00:11:36.700 | How big is the problem?

00:11:38.060 | Could be that I'm not the right solution for you.

00:11:41.620 | Maybe I will refer you to someone else to speak with.

00:11:45.500 | And people usually really appreciate that.

00:11:47.540 | It's like, guys, you're not looking for us.

00:11:49.460 | This is way too complex.

00:11:51.100 | It's like, really?

00:11:52.340 | First time I hear somebody say that.

00:11:54.700 | But I know that from my experience,

00:11:57.380 | if I try to sell to you, I will waste my time.

00:12:01.180 | And very likely you will either not going to buy the solution

00:12:06.180 | or if you do, it will be such a small solution

00:12:09.300 | that neither you're gonna be satisfied,

00:12:12.700 | nor our time is going to be used productively.

00:12:16.980 | So one of those things is like to understand

00:12:19.500 | what it is that they're trying to achieve.

00:12:21.540 | Then the next step is also to help them

00:12:24.060 | to build that business case

00:12:25.380 | because in B2B they don't buy alone.

00:12:27.940 | Even if Tim came over to me and said,

00:12:30.140 | "Oh, I need Dream Data.

00:12:32.060 | I really wanna buy from you.

00:12:33.380 | This is an amazing solution."

00:12:34.700 | Say, "Let's take a step back.

00:12:37.100 | Okay, you think this is amazing.

00:12:38.780 | What are you trying to achieve?

00:12:40.420 | And who else is in the same boat in your team

00:12:43.940 | or besides your team?"

00:12:45.460 | Because you as a person, if you bought it,

00:12:47.940 | let's say it cost us peanuts.

00:12:49.340 | You definitely can just pay it out of your pocket.

00:12:53.340 | You're gonna use it,

00:12:54.460 | but likely somebody else will be impacted by it,

00:12:57.860 | either positively or negatively.

00:12:59.780 | So let's map out this early that is going to happen

00:13:02.980 | after you bought the solution.

00:13:04.740 | So we're able to see,

00:13:05.820 | okay, this is going to be a future success.

00:13:08.740 | - Yeah, I really like that.

00:13:11.380 | I like how you first start off

00:13:12.860 | with taking a position of empathy, right?

00:13:15.500 | Asking the questions to fully understand

00:13:18.180 | what a process is trying to solve for, right?

00:13:20.220 | And I think what questions you're asking is really cool

00:13:23.540 | 'cause it puts you in a place or a role

00:13:26.300 | as a trusted advisor,

00:13:28.140 | as opposed to someone just trying to push product

00:13:29.900 | down your throat, right?

00:13:30.740 | And I think there is a...

00:13:32.620 | What I'm getting a sense from you

00:13:33.780 | is like there's a lot of transparency

00:13:35.740 | and openness in this dialogue.

00:13:38.180 | Part of it is like kind of embracing your vulnerability

00:13:41.060 | to just have a true conversation.

00:13:42.820 | I like how an outcome could even be

00:13:47.260 | like this might not be the right fit for you

00:13:48.780 | 'cause even a admission like that for a prospect,

00:13:51.700 | you're right, they don't hear that often.

00:13:52.700 | 'Cause like, aren't you trying to sell me something?

00:13:54.140 | It's like, no, I want to do what's best for you.

00:13:56.260 | And they might be more interested to listen to you.

00:13:59.260 | I remember when you and I were exchanging emails early on,

00:14:01.340 | we were talking about different methodologies

00:14:03.260 | of shaping a conversation,

00:14:04.660 | whether it's a challenger sale

00:14:05.860 | or value-based selling framework,

00:14:07.260 | like that tends to work

00:14:09.580 | in terms of these kinds of conversations.

00:14:10.900 | And just kind of quick review for the people out there,

00:14:13.140 | just roughly, it's the idea where you lead

00:14:17.180 | with customer first and end with your company, right?

00:14:19.900 | So you kind of start off kind of helping them understand

00:14:22.140 | their current situation and maybe the negative impact

00:14:25.260 | of maintaining their status quo.

00:14:27.060 | And then you kind of help them understand

00:14:28.260 | or discover the ideal future state

00:14:30.540 | and what that looks like.

00:14:31.380 | Again, it has nothing to do with you as a brand.

00:14:33.300 | It's to them, what's best for them.

00:14:35.100 | Once you kind of lead them

00:14:35.940 | through that kind of identifying the future,

00:14:37.660 | then you figure out how do you measure the success.

00:14:39.540 | And that's kind of where you can kind of start weaving in

00:14:42.100 | metrics of success that maybe you might be uniquely

00:14:44.620 | positioned to solve for.

00:14:45.980 | And then you go into how you solve for that, right?

00:14:48.340 | And then customer references.

00:14:50.100 | Can you give us some examples?

00:14:51.340 | And it doesn't have to follow that, but like an example

00:14:53.940 | of maybe you had a customer conversation

00:14:55.780 | that maybe started here.

00:14:57.420 | And as you kind of help them walk through that,

00:14:59.780 | either the validation or understanding of their situation,

00:15:02.380 | you kind of landed somewhere else

00:15:03.500 | that was probably better for them.

00:15:05.700 | - Yeah, for sure.

00:15:06.580 | So just recently we started defining the use cases

00:15:11.500 | that people usually think they're buying

00:15:14.260 | an attribution solution for,

00:15:16.460 | and what alternative use cases there might be

00:15:19.820 | that we're trying to reach.

00:15:21.340 | And that helped us as well to figure out,

00:15:23.660 | okay, what types of use cases can we expose to our clients?

00:15:28.660 | Maybe they're not aware of those, or they're vaguely aware.

00:15:34.260 | So usually what happens is that most of our prospects

00:15:37.780 | come to Dream Data saying that,

00:15:40.060 | "I want a multi-touch attribution for my deals.

00:15:44.220 | I'm closing."

00:15:45.060 | This is loaded.

00:15:48.740 | Let's figure out what's an actual problem

00:15:51.020 | you're trying to solve.

00:15:52.140 | Okay, so where does it hurt?

00:15:54.420 | Okay, how do you do marketing?

00:15:56.060 | First of all, is that organic?

00:15:57.860 | Is that paid?

00:15:58.700 | Is it a mix to go a lot to the events?

00:16:01.180 | Like how is the mix looking?

00:16:03.300 | That you need a multi-touch approach.

00:16:05.260 | It could be that your clients are actually buying.

00:16:07.580 | Like you've got one stakeholder, they come in,

00:16:10.220 | they have two meetings, and then they buy.

00:16:12.380 | You don't need an attribution solution.

00:16:14.380 | But if you've got a lot of stakeholders,

00:16:16.540 | a lot of touches in the customer journey,

00:16:18.700 | then you need to figure out.

00:16:19.900 | So those expensive events that we're running,

00:16:22.380 | should we continue those?

00:16:25.380 | Or should we repurpose some of that budget

00:16:28.540 | and drive it to paid when people are actually searching

00:16:31.500 | for our solutions so they find us top of the list?

00:16:34.660 | We stay top of the mind for them.

00:16:36.860 | So usually people would come

00:16:39.420 | for that kind of multi-touch attribution,

00:16:42.540 | but we would have to unpeel that onion so they know,

00:16:45.660 | okay, somebody who works with events

00:16:47.900 | needs to look into the solution as well.

00:16:50.140 | Maybe we're onboarded because this will be a part of it.

00:16:52.940 | Paid, organic, very often they ask about sales.

00:16:57.940 | Because if you show the full customer journey,

00:17:00.420 | sales are interested to have a look as like,

00:17:02.340 | how did it start?

00:17:03.540 | How do I reactivate?

00:17:04.940 | Are they on our website and stuff like that?

00:17:07.460 | So mapping this all out,

00:17:09.940 | takes your discussion very different places.

00:17:13.860 | And depending on what people are looking for.

00:17:16.820 | If a CRO comes into the call of that marketing

00:17:20.380 | is starting to look for an attribution solution,

00:17:22.820 | CRO has totally different views,

00:17:24.940 | needs to do things.

00:17:26.540 | Oh, this is way too deep.

00:17:27.940 | I don't need that.

00:17:28.780 | Can you just show me which channels are driving our SQLs?

00:17:33.180 | Yeah, sure.

00:17:34.500 | But maybe you don't need an attribution solution for that,

00:17:36.660 | but your team does.

00:17:38.300 | And then it's really persona-based

00:17:41.180 | and what kind of use cases they're trying to solve.

00:17:43.940 | - I see.

00:17:44.780 | So it sounds like,

00:17:45.620 | and I like that kind of going from a kind of persona

00:17:48.740 | mixed with kind of whether it was a top task or use cases.

00:17:52.020 | So I'm assuming like are there situations

00:17:55.900 | where maybe a lead comes in

00:17:57.180 | and maybe it's coming from a certain campaign.

00:17:59.420 | So you might assume that it might be attached

00:18:01.460 | to a certain type of use case for them, right?

00:18:04.500 | But like, as you're having a conversation,

00:18:06.060 | you kind of uncover maybe that was the entry point,

00:18:09.020 | but actually the problem they're trying to solve

00:18:10.900 | is a completely different use case

00:18:12.460 | that maybe is a larger opportunity.

00:18:14.660 | Like, does that happen frequently

00:18:15.940 | or any examples you're willing to share

00:18:17.940 | that you're able to?

00:18:18.780 | - Yeah.

00:18:19.620 | So there's a prospect that I'm working with at the moment

00:18:22.780 | and the solution became much bigger

00:18:26.220 | than I actually anticipated.

00:18:27.780 | So they came in saying that we want to figure out

00:18:30.340 | which content is working,

00:18:32.020 | which content is driving pipeline.

00:18:34.060 | Cool.

00:18:34.900 | So they've got their account-based marketing person,

00:18:37.420 | they've got their campaigns running person,

00:18:40.220 | pretty large account.

00:18:41.540 | And we're continuing talking, talking, talking.

00:18:44.500 | And then I mentioned the multi-touch attribution thing

00:18:49.500 | and it's like, wait, she's saying,

00:18:54.100 | I think we have a competitor where have installed on-prem.

00:18:59.100 | Okay, so they came for something that we have

00:19:04.300 | in the solution that the competitor they're using,

00:19:07.460 | they don't have.

00:19:09.140 | And that means that they actually are looking

00:19:10.940 | into having both solutions implemented at the same time.

00:19:15.460 | One of the solutions is implemented by operations

00:19:18.820 | and it's up and running pretty well.

00:19:21.020 | Management is using,

00:19:22.420 | but the marketing team thinks it's not enough.

00:19:25.020 | So they came for a totally different thing

00:19:27.020 | than we have ever that they do have a competitor

00:19:30.380 | that they're using.

00:19:31.780 | But at the same time saying that,

00:19:33.700 | okay, let's take a step back,

00:19:35.500 | assess if that competitor can deliver for us.

00:19:38.660 | And they can't.

00:19:39.660 | That means that we need both solutions.

00:19:41.780 | - I see.

00:19:42.620 | And again, I don't want to get too granular

00:19:44.660 | 'cause obviously there's some proprietary information here.

00:19:47.500 | But in this case where they're installed-based

00:19:50.380 | as your competitor,

00:19:51.460 | how do you kind of lead a conversation around like,

00:19:54.140 | we can work well together or play nice,

00:19:56.740 | or are you kind of advising them on a five-year roadmap

00:20:00.060 | to kind of maybe replace, right?

00:20:02.380 | Like what does that conversation typically look like

00:20:04.340 | for you?

00:20:05.180 | - Yeah, this one is,

00:20:06.780 | it really depends on what is the competition in place

00:20:10.500 | and which teams are using it.

00:20:12.620 | So first thing that we had to realize

00:20:16.580 | is that how long time does it take

00:20:18.620 | for somebody to implement an attribution solution?

00:20:21.780 | So if they have, they have used their time

00:20:25.180 | and they have that bias of,

00:20:27.420 | okay, so now we're going to miss out on all that time,

00:20:31.100 | means that maybe we should just wait with an alternative.

00:20:34.620 | And I do come in with empathy in saying,

00:20:36.460 | this is going to take you additional time

00:20:39.420 | to get a new solution if it is.

00:20:41.700 | And these are the differences,

00:20:44.700 | and tell me where you see the benefits are.

00:20:47.140 | So they can guide the conversation.

00:20:48.780 | If benefits are worth it for them to go through this,

00:20:52.820 | once again, maybe faster, but I can't promise it.

00:20:55.620 | It could be there will be hiccups,

00:20:57.740 | but they should be ready for that.

00:21:01.460 | For me, it would be totally impossible to say,

00:21:03.940 | oh, this is going to be thousand times better

00:21:06.100 | and it's much faster and so on.

00:21:08.500 | The solution is likely better,

00:21:10.660 | but the time that you spend on the other solution

00:21:13.580 | is going to be difficult for you

00:21:16.700 | to tell inside the company that now we're switching.

00:21:19.900 | It has to be like 10,

00:21:23.540 | hundred times better solution to go with to change.

00:21:27.620 | And we have to be open to that because this is like heavy.

00:21:32.620 | - Yeah, I think it's a good point.

00:21:34.740 | I mean, I think for all of us on the client side,

00:21:36.740 | like how many times have we been in a situation

00:21:39.300 | where someone's kind of pitching something

00:21:40.620 | that's kind of comparable to what we're doing today.

00:21:42.700 | What always turns me off is if the message is like this,

00:21:46.900 | like your competitor sucks at this,

00:21:48.700 | this is why we're better.

00:21:49.540 | Like that always turns me off, right?

00:21:50.660 | I think the empathetic poach is like,

00:21:52.300 | hey, cool, sounds like this is what you need.

00:21:54.500 | And like in some areas that competitor

00:21:57.100 | actually might do a good sufficient job,

00:21:59.900 | but kind of helping them understand their use cases,

00:22:01.580 | for example, kind of maybe broadens,

00:22:03.420 | maybe the picture of like,

00:22:05.380 | there's other areas of their business

00:22:06.980 | that they might be overlooking that may have a shortcoming.

00:22:09.540 | And maybe there's an area where it can play nice.

00:22:11.340 | Again, not forcing the conversation,

00:22:13.380 | but again, you're playing the trusted advisor role

00:22:16.140 | where now I'm kind of believing things that you're saying

00:22:18.740 | and kind of being a strategic partner

00:22:20.700 | and helping them understanding

00:22:21.540 | what does a three-year or five-year roadmap look like.

00:22:24.380 | And if one outcome of that is replacement,

00:22:26.980 | sure, but if not, like think of something for me, right?

00:22:30.060 | And again, to your point,

00:22:30.900 | like I've got a job to do at the end of the day.

00:22:33.140 | The more value you provide me

00:22:34.620 | to figure out how to make these decisions,

00:22:35.900 | like the more highly I'm gonna regard your feedback, right?

00:22:39.860 | This is fascinating.

00:22:42.020 | I'm gonna shift the conversation really quick

00:22:43.660 | 'cause earlier you mentioned like using LinkedIn

00:22:46.500 | and I was trying to save that, my questions for then,

00:22:48.980 | 'cause I wanna do it now.

00:22:50.340 | Like social selling,

00:22:51.580 | especially with where the social media is today,

00:22:54.260 | it's so huge.

00:22:55.340 | And I remember like, I didn't actually even know you, Laura,

00:22:58.820 | but I knew of you just by looking at everything

00:23:02.260 | that you're posting.

00:23:03.540 | I kind of got the stories you're putting out there,

00:23:05.660 | there's some personal, some professional,

00:23:08.140 | and I feel like you were connecting with me

00:23:10.420 | and building a relationship, even though I don't know you.

00:23:13.460 | Can you tell me a little bit

00:23:14.860 | about like how you're utilizing like social selling

00:23:17.660 | and how is it, how do you even measure

00:23:19.780 | what works for you in this channel?

00:23:21.900 | - Yeah, absolutely.

00:23:23.500 | So I started, I think now around three years ago

00:23:27.580 | when I started at Dream Data.

00:23:29.020 | I did post here and there,

00:23:32.100 | re-share Gartner reports that nobody cares about

00:23:36.140 | and stuff like that.

00:23:37.180 | When I joined Dream Data, then we started to figure out,

00:23:41.100 | well, this is a pretty neat channel for us.

00:23:43.780 | And especially if we do it as a team

00:23:45.860 | that will have a compounding effect

00:23:48.100 | for all of us to be in front of our prospects.

00:23:51.620 | And so for me, I started to do that consistently every day.

00:23:56.620 | Later in the process, I added videos.

00:23:59.780 | And during the videos, I figured out that

00:24:02.940 | if there are some things people can recognize me for,

00:24:06.980 | along with I'm saying the words of the stuff

00:24:11.260 | that I'm selling, like customer journey, attribution,

00:24:14.740 | or content, or some stuff like that,

00:24:18.020 | then it will be so much easier for them to relate

00:24:20.380 | to the rest of the content that we're pulling out

00:24:22.660 | as Dream Data.

00:24:23.500 | So what I'm doing is I'm basically pulling the attention

00:24:28.500 | of a person.

00:24:29.620 | So as you're saying, some stuff is personal

00:24:32.180 | and you do remember it.

00:24:33.740 | Some stuff is including a picture

00:24:36.340 | or a very strong opinion about something,

00:24:38.900 | but this is what you remember.

00:24:40.500 | And very likely you don't remember that this is me,

00:24:43.540 | Laura, who did this, or she works at Dream Data,

00:24:46.860 | but you vaguely remember the face,

00:24:49.900 | probably the name a little later and then figure out,

00:24:53.460 | oh, so she talks about sales and marketing alignment, right?

00:24:57.420 | So you start to recognize the name of a person,

00:25:01.500 | but also the company the person is working for.

00:25:03.820 | And of course, the name of the company is also standing

00:25:05.940 | just underneath your profile.

00:25:08.180 | And if the whole team is doing that consistently,

00:25:11.260 | then it is much easier to reach your audience.

00:25:15.260 | And there are several things that we do that,

00:25:18.260 | like to nail that.

00:25:20.020 | We're connecting with people

00:25:21.220 | that are ideal customer profiles.

00:25:23.140 | The reason we're connected, Tim,

00:25:25.500 | is because you are the person

00:25:27.940 | who is interested in attribution.

00:25:30.140 | Either you're a marketer, operations are likely in sales,

00:25:34.220 | and one day when you think of attribution,

00:25:37.660 | you know what to think about.

00:25:39.340 | And it's not any manipulative or anything,

00:25:41.700 | but it is just very basic marketing.

00:25:44.900 | 'Cause if you do go and buy some campaigns,

00:25:49.900 | you still want to target right.

00:25:52.580 | When you go on LinkedIn, you do target your audience.

00:25:55.380 | Who are you going to expose your ads to?

00:25:57.580 | This is exactly the same,

00:25:59.380 | but you do that through the content that you speak about.

00:26:03.460 | So I'm speaking about stuff that you care about.

00:26:06.140 | But at the same time, I do connect with people

00:26:08.420 | that will care about the content.

00:26:10.500 | And naturally other people who are not connected with me

00:26:13.780 | start to follow me as well.

00:26:16.660 | So that compound effect that people who like my posts

00:26:19.740 | very likely are your connections as well.

00:26:21.740 | And suddenly you start seeing them and say,

00:26:23.100 | oh, she's all over the place.

00:26:24.900 | And since it is grasping the attention of the person,

00:26:28.420 | then it's much easier to do retargeting later.

00:26:30.820 | So now our CMO is using me as a bot for conversation ads

00:26:34.540 | and stuff like that, because people remember the name.

00:26:37.860 | - I see, so social selling for you

00:26:39.860 | is a department-wide strategy.

00:26:41.740 | It's not just you as an individual?

00:26:43.900 | - It is sales and marketing strategy, it is.

00:26:46.180 | - Oh, that's really, really cool.

00:26:48.100 | That's actually, my sample size

00:26:51.580 | is just the companies I've worked with,

00:26:53.260 | but that feels kind of rare.

00:26:55.300 | I think utilizing social as a selling tool

00:26:59.420 | almost for me has been down to the individual.

00:27:02.260 | And you're right, most people are like reposting things

00:27:05.500 | like this asset.

00:27:06.380 | And I think what you've done,

00:27:08.460 | and actually I'll even categorize for you.

00:27:10.340 | You do things a few ways,

00:27:11.740 | and I'm kind of curious which way has worked well for you

00:27:14.540 | in terms of generating business or whatnot.

00:27:17.100 | So I see a mixture of stuff.

00:27:18.540 | You did a post once where you talked about

00:27:21.380 | where marketing and sales interact, right?

00:27:23.420 | And what the role of asset creation, all that kind of stuff.

00:27:25.980 | And that one was helpful,

00:27:27.380 | 'cause your post as a structure was like,

00:27:30.140 | you provide information on the top 10 things

00:27:33.540 | that you cared about that kind of supported

00:27:35.500 | your point of view.

00:27:36.940 | But that one was an open-ended question

00:27:39.140 | where you wanted people to proactively come

00:27:41.020 | and respond to the comments to build a conversation.

00:27:44.900 | That was one type of post.

00:27:46.980 | I've seen other posts for you

00:27:48.180 | where you're going to an event.

00:27:49.860 | It's very video driven, where it's like, meet me here.

00:27:52.300 | And again, there's always some lead-in,

00:27:54.540 | like your description, it's very informative.

00:27:57.620 | And then there's humorous ones,

00:27:59.100 | like you did the "I F'd Up" one, right?

00:28:00.460 | That the video did recently.

00:28:01.420 | I think that was today or recently,

00:28:02.740 | where you just, it's some silly incident

00:28:05.780 | and trying to fill a car.

00:28:06.740 | And it's again, just a little personal anecdote

00:28:09.220 | that just lets me realize,

00:28:10.780 | hey, Laura doesn't take herself seriously, neither do I.

00:28:13.820 | It seems like she's kind of humble down on earth.

00:28:16.060 | Maybe I want to have a conversation with her

00:28:17.740 | if I'm your target audience.

00:28:19.140 | Can you help us understand what types of posts

00:28:21.900 | or construction of posts have really worked for you?

00:28:24.900 | Again, I'm not asking you to give away your secret sauce

00:28:27.460 | for your organization's strategy,

00:28:29.180 | but just maybe some tips

00:28:30.220 | on maybe building something that works.

00:28:32.620 | - Oh yeah, you can get the whole sauce.

00:28:34.420 | I mean, everybody will try to copy it,

00:28:37.020 | will do it their own way,

00:28:38.060 | because this is people you're dealing with.

00:28:40.100 | So you're definitely going to do it differently.

00:28:42.300 | So for me personally, there are two ways of posting.

00:28:47.300 | The first one is the one that is grabbing attention,

00:28:50.180 | getting a lot of likes and a lot of engagement.

00:28:53.220 | Most of the times it is when I post either personal stuff

00:28:57.340 | or stuff about social selling.

00:28:59.420 | So when I speak about those two things,

00:29:01.500 | about being a mom, being a woman,

00:29:03.660 | I even reposted Taylor Swift's one of the songs.

00:29:07.900 | It's like about women being like underrepresented.

00:29:12.500 | Anyway, that one, like a lot of engagements

00:29:15.260 | and hates and so on.

00:29:16.540 | This is nice.

00:29:17.380 | This is grasping attention, people remember.

00:29:20.540 | But this one brings zero leads, nothing.

00:29:25.140 | But people see it.

00:29:26.380 | And then that means that they will see the other posts.

00:29:30.380 | Serious posts, product videos.

00:29:33.940 | I do product videos while I walk through the product.

00:29:37.660 | Click here and there.

00:29:38.860 | Or I try to show screenshots of customer journeys.

00:29:43.060 | Literally, how did I win a client to show that

00:29:45.740 | in Dream Data, where people get curious.

00:29:47.860 | Oh, how did you do this?

00:29:49.100 | And what is the tool that you're using?

00:29:50.500 | Oh, glad you asked.

00:29:51.900 | So the reason that they're able to follow the two

00:29:55.140 | is because I do entertain, I do grasp the audience,

00:29:58.900 | but then later post the stuff that is probably

00:30:01.660 | do not gather that many likes, but do grasp attention.

00:30:06.660 | People attack each other.

00:30:08.980 | People later remember those and get into demos with us

00:30:12.180 | and say, oh, I've seen a customer journey.

00:30:14.140 | Can I see that live?

00:30:16.100 | So this is how we do the strategy.

00:30:19.380 | And if you're thinking of like the whole company,

00:30:22.260 | how we do it, we chose not to do topics,

00:30:26.460 | meaning that, oh, we're releasing, I don't know,

00:30:28.860 | oh, we just got started to type two compliance.

00:30:31.540 | Let's all talk about this.

00:30:33.380 | No, because people will think this is boring

00:30:36.580 | and it will be repetitive.

00:30:38.420 | So we'd rather choose to do it like that.

00:30:41.580 | So each and every salesperson, for marketing, it still works.

00:30:44.820 | They do go like topic by topic and so on.

00:30:47.580 | But for sales, we do pick up a group of clients

00:30:50.940 | that you are targeting right now to warm them up

00:30:54.300 | and to start getting responses and start posting the topics

00:30:57.740 | that those prospects care about.

00:31:00.140 | What is that their top of mind that we're selling?

00:31:05.140 | So it sounds like you're speaking their language

00:31:07.460 | and then it's easier to start the conversations.

00:31:09.660 | It will always land in your attribution realm,

00:31:13.940 | but it will not be the same

00:31:15.140 | what marketing has just released.

00:31:17.180 | If it is released, we'll speak about it.

00:31:19.180 | But other than that,

00:31:20.140 | it will be very client-specific and related.

00:31:23.340 | We would never mention the client,

00:31:25.100 | but it is like outbound one to many.

00:31:28.300 | I'll be speaking about you, Tim,

00:31:30.780 | but I'll be posting about the topic

00:31:33.060 | that you definitely care about

00:31:34.900 | and you will probably see it and never like it,

00:31:37.180 | but other people will see it as well.

00:31:39.300 | And in that way, I will warm up the topic

00:31:43.140 | for those prospects to see us as a thought leader as well.

00:31:47.340 | - Yeah, I think that's brilliant.

00:31:48.900 | I mean, I think one part of it,

00:31:50.380 | you're talking about like understanding

00:31:52.060 | how to build your total impression base, right?

00:31:54.660 | Like how many total people can see your posts.

00:31:56.180 | And so even though the Taylor Swift one,

00:31:58.220 | while it may not necessarily result in leads,

00:32:00.340 | you're increasing your reach

00:32:01.940 | for people who find you interesting, right?

00:32:03.380 | So that meant it maybe get connections to that

00:32:05.140 | or people follow you or repost or whatnot.

00:32:07.420 | So then when you do, do your more meaningful

00:32:10.020 | in terms of something that's like lead generation wise,

00:32:12.340 | like because you're expanding the total base

00:32:14.540 | of which it can be exposed to,

00:32:16.700 | then you're just talking about increasing

00:32:18.540 | the math of the funnel, right?

00:32:19.580 | The more at the top, the more at the bottom, right?

00:32:21.060 | So, and I think the other part,

00:32:23.060 | I really appreciate what you said was

00:32:25.100 | taking something that's created by marketing

00:32:27.940 | and making your own, right?

00:32:29.780 | So not regurgitating, but putting your own spin,

00:32:32.500 | target at your customer about something that they care about

00:32:35.180 | that puts context around why that campaign matters.

00:32:38.980 | And that probably converts well, right?

00:32:40.220 | So you need to target people through LinkedIn

00:32:42.020 | or do a broad post and hoping your target

00:32:43.980 | post on industry connects.

00:32:45.980 | That's fantastic.

00:32:46.980 | I want to do one last shift for you.

00:32:49.820 | And this is more around just career growth.

00:32:52.340 | You know, I'm kind of interested in understanding

00:32:54.420 | how you kind of came into sales

00:32:57.100 | and then close out with any tips you have

00:33:00.300 | for people considering a brand new career in sales

00:33:03.220 | and what skills you believe they need,

00:33:05.100 | both hard and soft to succeed.

00:33:07.900 | But let's first start with your career journey.

00:33:09.620 | Like, how did you get here?

00:33:10.780 | Was it direct?

00:33:12.100 | Or like, did you have to overcome any fears to do this?

00:33:14.900 | Like, what's your story?

00:33:16.140 | - Usually the sales story for each and every salesperson

00:33:22.260 | is like, it was a mistake.

00:33:24.620 | I got there by mistake.

00:33:26.500 | It is more or less like that.

00:33:27.860 | If you ask what people have studied at school,

00:33:30.940 | nobody ever wants to be a salesperson.

00:33:32.860 | When you're at school,

00:33:34.340 | you think salespeople are the ones

00:33:35.980 | that are banging on your door and say,

00:33:37.660 | "Oh, I've got this to sell to."

00:33:39.180 | It's like, "Oh, I never want to do that."

00:33:41.220 | But the way I got into sales first, I got into IT.

00:33:44.940 | So education.

00:33:47.380 | I finished sociology as a bachelor.

00:33:52.380 | - Okay.

00:33:53.740 | - And when I was done with sociology,

00:33:55.380 | then I was like, "Hmm, okay, a researcher, uh-uh-uh."

00:33:59.540 | (laughs)

00:34:00.380 | I mean, the topics are fun, but no.

00:34:03.060 | And there was, even back in the days,

00:34:05.980 | like you're talking about,

00:34:07.420 | like I'm going to reveal how old I am and stuff.

00:34:09.460 | Back in the days, IT was not that hot.

00:34:12.620 | But after working at that call center I mentioned,

00:34:16.140 | I went to the US, I worked there for half a year,

00:34:18.300 | like work and travel, USA university stuff.

00:34:21.540 | I come back and say, "Okay, I need a new job."

00:34:23.540 | And I'm called up by a recruiter who's saying,

00:34:25.500 | "Oh, I'm hiring for an IT company.

00:34:27.260 | "I think you would be very good

00:34:28.500 | "at coordinating this and that."

00:34:30.700 | I'm like, "IT company?

00:34:32.860 | "Buddy, I'm not that good at Excel, you know?"

00:34:36.220 | I say, "No, no, no, that's all right, no problem."

00:34:38.700 | (laughs)

00:34:39.540 | So I landed at this company.

00:34:41.100 | It's an American company

00:34:42.660 | that was headquartered in Copenhagen.

00:34:45.860 | And I came here, became a resource manager,

00:34:48.740 | like coordinator and so on, knowing nothing about IT.

00:34:52.380 | And then six years in,

00:34:54.700 | so I have been there for six years,

00:34:56.620 | changing the roles of various coordination,

00:34:59.060 | like graduate programs and so on.

00:35:01.300 | I think I would be good at sales.

00:35:03.580 | I could see those people in the same company

00:35:05.500 | being in sales, I think I could be good.

00:35:07.540 | Then I hooked up with one guy

00:35:09.540 | who was head of sales over there.

00:35:10.820 | It's like, we have some conversations.

00:35:12.900 | He said, "No, no, you're very good at what you do.

00:35:15.980 | "Continue that."

00:35:17.100 | (laughs)

00:35:18.660 | So I left, I got two offers in two large corporations

00:35:23.660 | as inside sales.

00:35:26.140 | And I chose to go with the red hat.

00:35:28.140 | That's where I started in sales.

00:35:30.700 | Going from a pretty nice manager position

00:35:32.860 | in a big enterprise,

00:35:34.300 | then I became an inside sales representative,

00:35:36.980 | like kind of a dig down in the career ladders.

00:35:42.020 | But for everybody who's thinking is sales for me,

00:35:45.540 | you have to try this.

00:35:47.340 | First, even though you go lower into the position

00:35:50.460 | than you think you were before,

00:35:52.420 | the salary will not go lower.

00:35:54.580 | Salaries and sales are incredible,

00:35:57.140 | even for inside sales are really high.

00:35:59.620 | So if you are money driven, this is for you.

00:36:02.660 | You definitely earn a lot.

00:36:05.060 | And from there, then I went through

00:36:08.860 | like the very standard career steps.

00:36:10.820 | I can see the account executives doing this.

00:36:12.660 | I think I can do it.

00:36:13.580 | Then I apply.

00:36:14.420 | And then they say, "No."

00:36:15.380 | But then I say, "Oh, what do I need to learn?"

00:36:17.260 | And then slowly you follow the people

00:36:19.580 | that you admire doing the work.

00:36:21.980 | It's like, I wanna be like you.

00:36:23.220 | Come, let's go to the meetings together.

00:36:24.940 | Let's learn.

00:36:25.860 | Let me figure out how do you ask the questions and so on.

00:36:28.580 | And then Gartner came.

00:36:30.260 | They recruited me for an account executive position

00:36:34.940 | to work with the largest enterprises in Denmark

00:36:38.020 | with their CTOs and CIOs.

00:36:41.060 | And who says no?

00:36:42.500 | (laughing)

00:36:44.100 | The salary was even higher.

00:36:45.300 | So this is how I progressed in my sales career

00:36:48.060 | before Dropshare came in.

00:36:49.940 | And for anybody who is considering to go into sales,

00:36:53.660 | think about a couple of things.

00:36:56.380 | So first, you have to be pretty brave

00:37:01.380 | and thick-skinned, I would say.

00:37:04.220 | Because you will be rejected a lot,

00:37:05.860 | but you will have to try and try and try

00:37:08.020 | and bruises and try and again.

00:37:10.020 | If that drives you to reach that success,

00:37:13.580 | both to reach the salary success,

00:37:15.660 | but also the gratification of somebody pick up the call,

00:37:19.940 | I book the meeting, or I close a deal,

00:37:23.260 | then it is an amazing place to be.

00:37:26.300 | Because that drive of a whole sales cycle

00:37:30.340 | is amazing to experience.

00:37:31.980 | It's like a rollercoaster over and over again.

00:37:34.260 | It's like, oh, a new quarter, back to zero again.

00:37:37.860 | So it's nerve-wracking, but if you're driven by that,

00:37:41.780 | you should definitely try out.

00:37:43.340 | Because otherwise, you will just miss out on knowing

00:37:45.980 | a place where you definitely feel like you belong.

00:37:48.700 | - Yeah, so I'm gonna project my own fears

00:37:50.420 | on you for a second.

00:37:51.420 | The two things that always scare me about considering sales,

00:37:55.940 | one is like, how do I handle objection

00:37:58.860 | in a way that doesn't depress me?

00:38:00.740 | And the second one is just a general fear

00:38:03.420 | of needing to miss a quota

00:38:06.100 | and the stress that comes from that,

00:38:07.220 | as opposed to a steady page job.

00:38:09.140 | How do you personally handle those two things?

00:38:12.100 | - Yeah, objections is a pretty easy thing

00:38:15.100 | once you realize why people have objections.

00:38:18.100 | Is while leading with empathy,

00:38:21.900 | if you object to something,

00:38:23.260 | it could be it's not right for you.

00:38:24.820 | One of the books that taught me a lot about that

00:38:27.380 | is Chris Voss, "Never Split the Difference."

00:38:31.020 | Not sure if you ever read it,

00:38:32.180 | but he is a negotiator for terrorists

00:38:37.180 | to get the people out from places

00:38:39.420 | that they're (indistinct) and stuff.

00:38:41.220 | And how he walks through his process

00:38:44.340 | of negotiating with a terrorist.

00:38:46.780 | This is hardcore.

00:38:48.260 | And when you think about the prospect

00:38:50.580 | who gives you some rejections for yourself,

00:38:53.820 | why do you feel that you have to get back

00:38:57.340 | with a better answer?

00:38:58.300 | It could be you don't know better.

00:39:00.180 | It could be that the person in front of you

00:39:02.180 | is actually right.

00:39:03.060 | We just need to figure out what it is

00:39:04.660 | that you're trying to achieve.

00:39:06.300 | I think very little people are just like angry

00:39:09.500 | in themselves and just trying to reject you.

00:39:12.020 | I don't think so.

00:39:13.180 | I think, I mean, if you're able

00:39:15.100 | to have a nice conversation with a person

00:39:17.060 | and figure out what they're actually looking for,

00:39:19.620 | then it's not that difficult.

00:39:21.540 | This one is easy.

00:39:22.580 | The second one is loaded.

00:39:24.660 | I mean, hitting the targets

00:39:26.260 | and not hitting them is really hard.

00:39:28.860 | And especially when you've got the team

00:39:31.540 | of your own peers who you collaborate with,

00:39:36.500 | but at the same time, you do compete with them.

00:39:40.100 | And not in who comes there first and so on,

00:39:43.020 | but it's more that feeling of, I'm not good enough.

00:39:47.060 | That one is always there.

00:39:48.820 | If you are like number three or four

00:39:52.260 | on the list of the salespeople

00:39:53.900 | who did not hit the quota this time and so on,

00:39:57.140 | this is really hard because every single time

00:40:00.140 | you're thinking, am I good enough?

00:40:02.060 | Am I going to be fired?

00:40:03.500 | How do I get better to this?

00:40:05.700 | And that is also, the way I deal with this

00:40:09.660 | is having a very heavy background of prospecting.

00:40:14.660 | Who am I going to work with next month,

00:40:17.860 | next quarter, probably next year?

00:40:19.780 | What's my target?

00:40:20.780 | So if I have that base,

00:40:23.100 | then it's much easier to always get back

00:40:25.260 | and say, okay, this quarter was shit,

00:40:27.700 | but I have a very stable pipeline for next quarter,

00:40:31.620 | and I'm going to hit that one.

00:40:33.300 | And this is not personally me

00:40:35.020 | because people are not rejecting me.

00:40:37.060 | This is the hard part.

00:40:38.020 | You think, oh, people are rejecting me.

00:40:39.860 | Nobody wants to buy from me.

00:40:41.020 | No, this is not personal.

00:40:42.820 | This could be the market.

00:40:43.980 | This could be you haven't learned the right questions

00:40:45.940 | to ask and to uncover those problems,

00:40:48.100 | to be able to sell to those people,

00:40:50.220 | or to involve the right people in the customer journey

00:40:53.100 | for them to actually buy the solution.

00:40:55.300 | So there's always something to find to unpack for that one.

00:40:58.860 | But at the end of the day,

00:41:00.740 | when you're sitting alone in a partly dark room

00:41:04.260 | and think, oh, I'm a fucking failure.

00:41:06.660 | I am number five from seven people sales team.

00:41:10.580 | That's hard.

00:41:12.500 | - Yeah.

00:41:13.980 | Well, I really appreciate

00:41:15.420 | this transparent conversation you have.

00:41:17.780 | You know, I think you're very real.

00:41:19.620 | I think there's definitely a human element to all of this.

00:41:22.220 | And I like how you talked about detaching yourself

00:41:25.620 | from the rejection and also being self-aware enough

00:41:29.900 | to identify the truth nuggets in there

00:41:32.100 | that truly apply to you and how to improve.

00:41:35.340 | And I think your point of view

00:41:38.900 | on always kind of thinking ahead

00:41:40.460 | and making sure that you build

00:41:41.900 | enough of a pipeline for yourself

00:41:43.460 | to kind of protect against softness of a quarter

00:41:46.700 | and then kind of get ready for the next quarter

00:41:48.540 | is really smart.

00:41:49.660 | So Laura, I just want to thank you for your time.

00:41:51.340 | I certainly learned a lot from this conversation.

00:41:52.900 | I think a lot of people who are entertaining

00:41:54.620 | this field did as well.

00:41:55.900 | So I just want to thank you for your time, Laura.

00:41:58.020 | - Thank you so much for having me.

00:41:58.860 | - Thank you so much.

00:41:59.700 | (gentle music)

00:42:02.300 | [BLANK_AUDIO]

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