Should We Talk More About ‘Following Jesus’?
00:00:00.000 | My name is Paul. I'm an investor in Houston, Texas. I've been a ministry partner with Desiring God for 18 years.
00:00:07.640 | You are listening to the Ask Pastor John podcast with John Piper.
00:00:12.080 | That is my friend Paul and I want you to meet him in just a moment.
00:00:18.840 | But today we field a question from a listener named Mark who lives in Midlothian, Virginia. Mark writes this, "Pastor John,
00:00:25.420 | I am eternally thankful for your life in ministry. My question is why Paul refuses to use the phrase 'follow
00:00:31.600 | Jesus' when speaking about saving faith or in his imperatives to the church. Jesus spoke this way a lot. In Matthew 4, 19,
00:00:39.100 | he said to his disciples, "Follow me and I will make you fishers of men."
00:00:42.260 | Jesus's command to follow seems significant in all four Gospels. In Matthew 8, 22,
00:00:47.640 | he says, "Follow me and leave the dead to bury their own dead." In Mark 10, 21,
00:00:51.740 | he says, "You lack one thing. Go, sell all that you have and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven and
00:00:56.840 | come follow me." In Luke 9, 23, he says, "If anyone would come after me,
00:01:02.080 | let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and
00:01:04.760 | follow me." And in John 10, 27, he says, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me."
00:01:12.360 | Ketex, all of them. The Greek word for follow appears 89 times in the New Testament,
00:01:17.920 | but only once in Paul, in 1 Corinthians 10, 4. Basically, Paul avoids the language of following Jesus.
00:01:23.080 | Why? And was this terminology more appropriate for those who could literally follow Christ during his ministry on earth?
00:01:31.020 | I think that last sentence,
00:01:33.020 | namely that while Jesus was here, in his bodily presence,
00:01:38.680 | the words "follow me" had a very distinct and particular meaning with reference to Jesus' actual
00:01:47.120 | movements, physical movements and behavior on the ground.
00:01:50.920 | That's very, very significant. When he said to the fishermen,
00:01:56.740 | "Follow me," they left their nets and walked behind him. When he said to Levi, "Follow me,"
00:02:03.280 | he left his money table and he walked behind him. The words "follow me" were used not only because
00:02:10.600 | what he taught was what they should do,
00:02:13.960 | but also because he was an itinerant preacher who would
00:02:18.880 | show them in his deeds as they walked around with him
00:02:22.860 | how to live and how to minister. So I think Mark puts his finger on the issue
00:02:30.480 | with that last sentence that the words "follow me" had a special physical meaning in the presence of Jesus'
00:02:38.260 | physical body when he was here.
00:02:41.560 | Let's make a few other observations that I think take us deeper into
00:02:47.960 | why
00:02:49.680 | none of the apostles made a practice of describing Christians as
00:02:53.800 | Jesus' followers, which is what a lot of people are doing today.
00:02:59.320 | I would just wave a little yellow flag that it might not be a good idea to make a
00:03:06.760 | dominant practice
00:03:09.200 | today out of something that is almost
00:03:12.120 | non-existent among the apostles in the New Testament.
00:03:15.920 | After the resurrection, none of them called Christians
00:03:20.520 | followers of Jesus. So here's a few observations. Number one, in John 13 36,
00:03:27.520 | Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, where are you going?" Jesus answered him, "Where I am going, you cannot
00:03:35.240 | follow me now, but you will
00:03:38.880 | follow afterward." And Peter said, "Lord,
00:03:42.160 | why cannot I follow you now? I lay down my life for you." And Jesus, in essence, said, "No, you can't, and you won't."
00:03:49.760 | So what did Jesus mean
00:03:52.240 | when he said, "You cannot follow me now,
00:03:56.520 | but you will afterwards"?
00:03:59.000 | Well, he meant, first of all, that I'm about to die on the cross, and you're not ready to follow me there.
00:04:05.600 | You're going to deny me tonight, or, you know, three times. He says that in the next verse.
00:04:11.320 | But what did he mean when he said, "Later, you will follow me"? As if to say, "Later,
00:04:18.360 | you'll have the courage to die with me." Well,
00:04:20.720 | interestingly, in John 21
00:04:23.440 | 17 to 19, after the resurrection of Jesus,
00:04:27.800 | he says to Peter,
00:04:30.360 | "Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk where you wanted,
00:04:37.000 | but when you are old,
00:04:39.360 | you will stretch out your hands," and I think he's referring to the fact that Peter was crucified,
00:04:45.680 | "you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and
00:04:49.840 | carry you where you do not want to go."
00:04:53.040 | This he said to show by what death he was to glorify God,
00:04:58.440 | namely to be crucified like Jesus. And after saying this, he said to him,
00:05:03.920 | "Follow me,"
00:05:06.360 | which I think is the answer to the question what Jesus meant back in chapter 13 when he said,
00:05:12.320 | "Afterwards, you will follow me." Right now, I'm going to die. You're not ready. You're going to deny me tonight.
00:05:17.600 | "Afterward, you will follow me into death."
00:05:21.000 | So on the one hand, Jesus declares, "We have come to a point in my
00:05:27.040 | life here now where you can't follow me anymore. Not in the ordinary sense.
00:05:32.520 | I'm going to die and leave, but if you want to think in those terms,
00:05:36.920 | the way to think is that you will follow me into death. You will die with me." And Paul was
00:05:43.120 | indeed willing to think that way in Romans 8, 17, where he said when he spoke of
00:05:48.760 | suffering with Jesus in this life and dying with
00:05:53.600 | Christ, the Christian life begins by dying with Jesus, Paul said.
00:05:58.520 | His second observation, "With the departure of Jesus and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit,
00:06:05.440 | the dominant way of thinking about the relationship between Jesus and his people is not
00:06:11.440 | that we walk around behind him, but that he dwells in
00:06:16.440 | them, and they in him, and they enjoy union with him."
00:06:23.600 | Union with Christ,
00:06:25.480 | by the Spirit,
00:06:27.480 | replaces the relation to Christ by physical following.
00:06:31.840 | Jesus said in John 14, 16, "I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,
00:06:40.560 | even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.
00:06:46.920 | You know him because he dwells with you and
00:06:50.280 | will be in you." Now, I think that's an indirect way of
00:06:54.480 | saying that Jesus is with them now, and they can follow around behind him, and
00:06:59.920 | later, by his Spirit, he will be in them.
00:07:03.880 | Third observation, "With Jesus' departure into heaven, his earthly life is
00:07:10.040 | conceived of as an example that we look
00:07:13.360 | back on to follow,
00:07:16.360 | rather than looking at the front of us as something to be
00:07:22.960 | followed."
00:07:24.760 | We imitate by looking backward at Jesus. For example, 1 Peter 2, 21, "Christ suffered
00:07:32.240 | for you, leaving you an example
00:07:35.160 | so that you might follow
00:07:38.400 | in his steps.
00:07:41.080 | He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth."
00:07:44.560 | So, there has been a clear historical
00:07:48.120 | reversal of the way we orient to Jesus.
00:07:51.720 | He's not physically out there in front of us,
00:07:55.840 | walking for us to follow. His life and teaching are fixed in
00:08:00.920 | history as an event and a pattern in the past that we now look back on and,
00:08:07.760 | in that sense, can follow an example.
00:08:12.160 | But the word has a very different meaning when we use it that way than the way it was used by
00:08:17.960 | Jesus. Fourth observation,
00:08:20.520 | "Jesus intended that his early followers, the apostles in particular,
00:08:25.400 | would complete the writing of a body of teaching that would be more complete
00:08:32.080 | than
00:08:34.160 | everything he said and did during his lifetime, because it would include a full
00:08:40.760 | documentation by his authoritative spokesman of his death and resurrection and the way the church should live in the light of it."
00:08:48.080 | That body of teaching, the New Testament, is now a fuller witness
00:08:54.040 | to be followed than the life and teachings of Jesus considered by themselves. So, Jesus himself would consider it a
00:09:02.120 | retrograde action, going backward in redemptive history to isolate the earthly life and teachings of Jesus
00:09:10.600 | for our following. But instead, the totality of the New Testament,
00:09:15.560 | informed by the Old, is the charter for the church's
00:09:20.680 | life. It is what we follow, and in doing so, in that sense,
00:09:27.080 | follow Jesus, since he's behind it. Last observation I would make is that the more profound
00:09:35.560 | summons of the New Testament is not that Jesus is a teacher to be followed, but he is a living, personal
00:09:43.680 | identity to be put on,
00:09:46.520 | like a garment or a new self.
00:09:49.320 | Galatians 3:27, "As many as were baptized into Christ have put on
00:09:56.040 | Christ." Romans 13, 14, "Put on
00:10:01.080 | the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh to gratify its desires."
00:10:05.960 | Ephesians 4, 24, "Put on the new self." So, Christ is our new
00:10:14.280 | identity. So, the new identity of discipleship is something far more profound
00:10:20.860 | than the impression you get with the words, "Follow Jesus." I think the apostles considered those words
00:10:28.180 | inadequate to capture the mystery of
00:10:30.540 | Christ in you, the hope of glory, as Paul calls it in
00:10:36.060 | Colossians 1:27.
00:10:38.580 | Very good. Thank you, Pastor John. And Mark, thank you for the wonderful question today.
00:10:42.700 | Well, at the start of this episode, you heard from Paul, a precious friend of mine into the ministry, a household name to us at DG.
00:10:49.540 | Paul joins us right now over the phone from Houston. Paul, thank you for your time. Give us some reasons why.
00:10:55.740 | Why do you support the ministry of Desiring God?
00:10:58.940 | I financially support the ministry because it cost-effectively reaches millions of people with biblically faithful
00:11:05.300 | content covering a broad spectrum of issues. For me, the APJ podcast has provided practical pastoral help for daily living and
00:11:13.740 | application of theological issues to life. I regularly use the podcast and ministry to others.
00:11:19.920 | I know you do, and it's an encouragement to hear how you use this podcast to serve others. Paul,
00:11:26.160 | you're a numbers guy.
00:11:26.820 | Give us some numbers for why you would encourage listeners to consider becoming a ministry partner with Desiring God.
00:11:31.980 | What catches your attention with regard to DG?
00:11:34.600 | 200 billion DG resources were accessed in the 12 months ended June 2020. That's on track to grow again this year.
00:11:42.660 | We've all experienced accelerated use of technology to accomplish ministry over the past six months.
00:11:49.500 | Desiring God is well positioned on several content distribution
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00:11:58.500 | We'd love to see you join the team.
00:12:00.500 | You can give with confidence because Desiring God is a careful steward of donor contributions. Paul, thank you.
00:12:07.220 | We so appreciate what you do for the ministry. You've served DG in so many different capacities and are a key ministry partner.
00:12:14.060 | We are really grateful to God for you. My pleasure. I love doing it.
00:12:18.560 | Hope to see you again soon.
00:12:19.860 | Amen. Yeah, see you soon, brother.
00:12:21.660 | And if you want to join Paul in becoming a ministry partner so we can make even more DG resources and spread those resources even
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00:12:32.540 | That's DesiringGod.org/donate. We appreciate it. I'm Tony Reinke. We'll see you back here on Wednesday. Thanks for listening.
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