Critical Race Theory, Part 1: The Relationships
00:00:00.000 | [Music]
00:00:04.000 | Well, last time I said we were taking the week of Thanksgiving off from the podcast
00:00:07.760 | to give you more time to listen to the Providence Book audiobook excerpts, and here we are,
00:00:13.200 | back with Pastor John, who was led to record two special episodes for us.
00:00:17.840 | We are releasing them Monday and Tuesday this week, today and tomorrow.
00:00:22.840 | The topic is critical race theory.
00:00:24.640 | It's a big one among evangelicals in 2020, and it comes up over and over again in the
00:00:28.840 | APJA inbox.
00:00:30.120 | About 50 emails have arrived in just the past year alone, all from listeners who basically
00:00:34.120 | just want to hear how Pastor John is thinking about CRT himself.
00:00:38.080 | And that is what we will do today and tomorrow.
00:00:40.120 | These are longer than normal episodes, about 22 or 23 minutes each.
00:00:44.800 | Today Pastor John addresses the relational side of the CRT debate.
00:00:48.800 | Tomorrow he will address the root problem with CRT.
00:00:51.360 | I hope you can listen to both episodes.
00:00:53.440 | Here now is Pastor John with Critical Race Theory, Part 1, The Relationships.
00:01:00.280 | If critical race theory were only a theoretical or philosophical or intellectual issue, I
00:01:09.880 | would definitely start with definitions.
00:01:14.400 | In fact, I would start with a biblical argument for why definitions and clarity and transparency
00:01:24.440 | are essential—essential for Christian faithfulness to Scripture and to God, especially when spiritual
00:01:31.880 | forces of darkness and confusion and deception are in the air, which they are.
00:01:39.800 | Paul calls Satan "the prince of the power of the air."
00:01:45.840 | And Satan's specialty in this world is deception through twisted truths and half-truths.
00:01:55.520 | And deception flourishes in the fog of confusion, and confusion is deepened and advanced through
00:02:02.320 | the lack of clarity.
00:02:04.440 | And clarity is only possible where we know the meaning of terms that we're each using
00:02:11.560 | when we talk to each other.
00:02:13.020 | So I hope you can see how seriously I take definitions and clarity and transparency in
00:02:20.520 | communication.
00:02:22.160 | And I do intend to get to as much definitional clarity as I'm capable of, but not in this
00:02:29.320 | episode of Ask Pastor John.
00:02:31.160 | I'm not going to start with that, and I hope you'll see why before we're done.
00:02:38.720 | Critical race theory is not only a bundle of beliefs and ideas and ways of thinking
00:02:46.920 | about race and other important things, it has also become a relationally destructive
00:02:55.640 | means of defamation.
00:02:58.880 | And that's what I want to talk about first.
00:03:01.040 | The way Christians treat each other and talk about each other when it comes to this issue
00:03:09.160 | of race, or more specifically, critical race theory.
00:03:14.900 | So I know this first session is going to be frustrating.
00:03:19.420 | We hope to do two of these.
00:03:21.120 | And I know this first one is going to be frustrating to listeners because my guess is that thousands
00:03:28.280 | of you listening to this right now don't have any clear idea what critical race theory
00:03:34.080 | is.
00:03:35.560 | I want to say, like, join the club.
00:03:37.240 | I mean, does anybody know what we're talking about?
00:03:40.320 | And here I am talking about it as a pejorative label that some people put on other people
00:03:48.560 | to their detriment, and I haven't even said what it is.
00:03:51.600 | How frustrating is that?
00:03:54.060 | But please try to trust me, not for a long time.
00:03:58.960 | I'm not asking you to trust me forever.
00:04:01.080 | I just—give me a little time in this, and I think you'll see why I'm coming at this
00:04:08.360 | so oddly when I love definitional clarity up front.
00:04:13.360 | I'm going to deal to the best of my ability with a definition in our second episode on
00:04:21.460 | critical race theory, but there are reasons for tackling the relational issue among Christians
00:04:28.880 | first, and I hope you'll see that as we go.
00:04:33.220 | There are biblical relational principles at stake here that I think do not depend on the
00:04:41.640 | definition of critical race theory because they apply to all kinds of explosive issues.
00:04:48.200 | That's what I want to get at.
00:04:49.800 | Those biblical relational principles, and I think this needs to be said first.
00:04:57.760 | I want to illustrate what I'm talking about with a podcast conversation, a podcast conversation
00:05:05.060 | about critical race theory between Rasool Berry, teaching pastor at the Bridge Church
00:05:10.660 | in Brooklyn, and Neil Shenvey, whose apologetics website describes him as a homeschooling theoretical
00:05:19.600 | chemist.
00:05:21.160 | And believe me, that is an understatement when it comes to his qualifications.
00:05:26.760 | They both have written and spoken about critical race theory.
00:05:30.400 | Both are articulate.
00:05:32.320 | Both are winsome.
00:05:34.060 | I found myself really liking and appreciating these two Christian brothers, even when they
00:05:41.680 | were emphasizing very different perspectives on critical race theory.
00:05:47.200 | When I put it like that, namely emphasizing very different perspectives, I don't say even
00:05:54.360 | when they were disagreeing because I couldn't put my finger on any specific disagreement
00:06:02.520 | about the rightness or the wrongness of critical race theory in its specific assertions.
00:06:10.200 | What mainly emerged in this conversation, and what was so helpful to me, was a clarification
00:06:17.880 | of the relational dynamics at work in these kinds of conversations.
00:06:24.800 | They were hosted by Justin Brierley on the unbelievable show, and you can watch it on
00:06:30.800 | YouTube.
00:06:32.360 | I think Pastor Berry was speaking for lots of African Americans, not all of them.
00:06:38.520 | Nobody speaks for all African Americans.
00:06:41.400 | When he said that his primary concern—those are his words, his primary concern, his primary
00:06:49.280 | critique of the whole conversation.
00:06:52.840 | He's thinking culture-wide, not just his conversation with Shenve.
00:06:57.600 | He said his primary concern was that he and many others woke up one morning, so to speak,
00:07:05.040 | and found that they had been tarred and feathered with the label "critical race theory."
00:07:10.720 | He had to go look it up, just like most of us did.
00:07:15.160 | He said he was born and raised in inner-city Philadelphia, went to University of Pennsylvania,
00:07:19.960 | majored in Africana Studies and Sociology, became a Christian his freshman year, was
00:07:25.040 | formed by evangelicalism.
00:07:27.720 | And during his studies, during all that undergraduate work in Africana Studies, he never heard about
00:07:33.840 | CRT at the University of Pennsylvania.
00:07:36.960 | To quote him, quote, "The brothers and I had not even heard of critical race theory
00:07:42.800 | until we were told that when we said something needs to change, when George Floyd was kneeled
00:07:49.440 | on, we were being held captive by critical race theory.
00:07:55.280 | What are you talking about?
00:07:56.540 | We said, I'm just trying to respond to the injustices all around me."
00:08:02.320 | And then he explains, "I'm being given a label," he says, "that I don't really
00:08:08.680 | want to be talking about.
00:08:11.640 | I want to be talking about the death that is in the street and the disparities like
00:08:17.880 | COVID having a disproportionate impact on people of color.
00:08:23.080 | We see these disparities across education, health care, economics.
00:08:27.940 | I would rather talk about that, but any time you talk about that in Christian circles,
00:08:34.640 | you are given this title," he says.
00:08:38.320 | And then he adds, "More energy is being devoted to the tethering of critical race
00:08:46.520 | theory to what we are saying than is being devoted to the problem of racism itself."
00:08:54.240 | Or, more broadly, he expresses his concern this way, "The church is being brought
00:09:02.360 | ethical concerns and is responding with epistemological critique.
00:09:08.840 | Like a man who tells you he's bleeding, and you ask, 'How did you come to that
00:09:15.080 | conclusion?'"
00:09:16.720 | Now, I said that my aim here is to get at biblical relational issues that are relevant
00:09:25.040 | quite apart from the definition of critical race theory.
00:09:27.960 | So in view of what we've just heard from Rasool Berry, let me state two of those biblical
00:09:35.880 | relational principles, and then unpack them one at a time.
00:09:40.920 | Number one, Christians should be careful not to slander a Christian brother by the
00:09:50.240 | careless use of pejorative labels like critical race theory.
00:09:57.440 | That's principle number one.
00:09:59.640 | Principle number two, when a Christian brother is honestly analyzing and exposing false beliefs
00:10:07.480 | or unbiblical ways of thinking like critical race theory, we should not silence or denounce
00:10:14.460 | the brother by pointing to blood in the streets.
00:10:20.240 | Now let me say a word about each of those principles, because my guess is that the first
00:10:26.720 | one may offend some critics of critical race theory, and the second one may offend some
00:10:35.060 | justice warriors, both of whom may be doing exactly what they should be doing, and neither
00:10:42.600 | of whom do I want to offend.
00:10:46.080 | So first a word about slander.
00:10:48.240 | Jesus said, "What comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles
00:10:53.800 | a person.
00:10:54.800 | For out of the heart come evil thoughts, false witness, slander.
00:11:01.560 | These are what defile a person."
00:11:03.920 | Paul said that our new identity in Christ involves putting away all bitterness and wrath
00:11:11.640 | and anger and clamor and slander, but that we be kind to one another, tenderhearted,
00:11:18.120 | forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you, Ephesians 4:31.
00:11:24.000 | And Peter said that when we're born again, we should put away all malice and all slander,
00:11:31.360 | 1 Peter 2.1.
00:11:33.220 | And that quote from Jesus was Matthew 15.90.
00:11:36.280 | Slander, what is it?
00:11:39.520 | Slander is speaking untrue, pejorative things about someone, usually in public.
00:11:47.640 | And Jesus and Paul and Peter say, "That's just not what Christians do.
00:11:52.440 | We don't do that to each other."
00:11:55.920 | Now, my guess is that when Pastor Barry says that he and others were pinned with critical
00:12:07.000 | race theory label before they even knew what it was, some critics of critical race theory
00:12:14.320 | will point out that you can be infected with a disease without knowing the name of the
00:12:19.640 | disease, which of course is true.
00:12:23.720 | We all know that's true.
00:12:26.400 | But I am underscoring that it is a very serious thing to tell the world, which is what social
00:12:34.140 | media does, that somebody has a deadly intellectual and moral disease, which you may even think
00:12:43.880 | is worthy of excommunication, when all you see is a few symptoms of the disease, which
00:12:51.420 | may not be owing to the disease at all, but owing to some other cause.
00:12:57.880 | What if one of the symptoms of the disease is excessive perspiration, but this perspiration
00:13:04.320 | is owing to long hours of hard work on some worthy cause?
00:13:09.440 | What if one of the symptoms of the disease is a loss of appetite, but this loss of appetite
00:13:15.800 | is owing to deep sorrow rather than to the disease?
00:13:20.240 | Americans should be so hesitant to slander a brother with pejorative labels that we go
00:13:28.900 | the extra mile to make sure we know, we know whether his actions or statements are really
00:13:36.480 | owing to his infection with the lethal aspects of critical race theory or not.
00:13:43.440 | In fact, I think one of the best ways to avoid slander in these highly contentious days is
00:13:52.280 | this.
00:13:53.280 | If you hear or read a brother say something that you think is unchristian or unbiblical
00:14:01.640 | with regard to race, don't call it critical race theory.
00:14:05.840 | Call it unchristian.
00:14:07.520 | Call it unbiblical.
00:14:09.120 | Preferably in a private email, not a public tweet or blog or podcast, and give solid biblical
00:14:17.800 | evidence for your concern.
00:14:20.080 | Here's one more point on this first biblical relational principle of avoiding slander.
00:14:27.860 | One way to avoid slander is not assuming that we know a person's ethical or intellectual
00:14:35.880 | or doctrinal stance on the basis of the questions they ask rather than the answers they give.
00:14:45.420 | If I pose the question, "Why there may be racial disparities in health care or education
00:14:52.620 | or anything else," and you assume that because of my question I am infected with the disease
00:15:02.020 | of critical race theory, you're on the brink of slander.
00:15:06.580 | It is possible for two people to ask the same question and come to radically different answers.
00:15:16.380 | So labeling someone on the basis of their questions is careless at best and possibly
00:15:24.100 | slander.
00:15:26.100 | So my first biblical relational principle that I'm pleading for is Christians should
00:15:33.500 | be careful not to slander a fellow Christian by the careless use of pejorative labels like
00:15:43.320 | critical race theory.
00:15:46.060 | Now here's number two, second, and there are only two.
00:15:49.380 | When a Christian brother is honestly analyzing and exposing false beliefs or unbiblical ways
00:15:56.160 | of thinking, say in critical race theory, we should not silence or denounce the brother
00:16:03.940 | by pointing to blood in the streets.
00:16:07.420 | Now the biblical principle behind this is Romans 12.4.
00:16:12.620 | In one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function.
00:16:23.260 | That's the biblical principle.
00:16:25.300 | Now I am not saying that Rasool Berry did this, that he pulled rank in that way and
00:16:32.580 | tried to silence his conversation partner, Neil Shenvey.
00:16:37.780 | I'm not saying he did that.
00:16:39.300 | He didn't do that.
00:16:41.340 | But I want to address this because that is the way he will be criticized.
00:16:49.260 | Berry will be criticized when he says, for example, "The church is being brought ethical
00:16:55.820 | concerns and is responding with epistemological critique."
00:17:01.800 | Like a man who tells you he's bleeding, and you ask, "Well, how did you come to that
00:17:07.820 | conclusion?"
00:17:09.060 | People are going to criticize that kind of statement, first because it's an overstatement,
00:17:14.300 | which it is.
00:17:15.300 | Everybody uses overstatement, as if the whole church is doing nothing but epistemology in
00:17:21.580 | response to the ethical issue of our time, and second because people will hear that statement
00:17:29.340 | as shutting down all intellectual wrestling with false ideas, which are upstream from
00:17:38.260 | the deadly effects they may have in the streets.
00:17:42.660 | Instead of silencing or denouncing someone who is wrestling with the intellectual or
00:17:49.420 | theoretical or epistemological roots of false beliefs and unbiblical thinking, let's give
00:17:57.820 | each other some room to be different in the way we attack the same evil.
00:18:06.100 | For example, COVID-19 is a killer.
00:18:10.300 | One person is fighting it in the research laboratory 18 hours a day.
00:18:15.340 | Another person is fighting it as a doctor or a nurse on the ground with his hands in
00:18:20.140 | the blood in the intensive care unit.
00:18:24.340 | Another person is a politician doing his best to discern what policies might hinder the
00:18:29.060 | spread of this disease.
00:18:30.900 | Another person is giving people guidance and hope with biblical interpretations of God's
00:18:35.620 | providence and trying to comfort those who've lost loved ones.
00:18:39.460 | And how mistaken it would be for the doctor with his hands in the blood, risking his life
00:18:47.140 | in the intensive care unit to say to the researcher who has never touched a diseased person, "Stop
00:18:52.780 | wasting your time in the laboratory and get out here where the suffering is and get your
00:18:56.660 | hands dirty for goodness sakes."
00:18:59.980 | The same is true for racism.
00:19:02.220 | Most Christians realize that belittling or disrespecting or hating or rejecting or hindering
00:19:12.600 | the success of someone simply because of their race is evil.
00:19:19.500 | One Christian might fight that evil in the street, another in the courts, another as
00:19:25.460 | a mother raising loving and respectful children, another as an academic historian unfolding
00:19:32.140 | the way race was constructed as an instrument of oppression, another preaching his heart
00:19:39.100 | out, the whole counsel of God trying to overcome the racism in his congregation, and another
00:19:45.660 | critiquing critical race theory precisely because he believes it is not a biblical path
00:19:52.940 | to justice and love but a destructive path.
00:19:57.240 | So my second biblical relational principle then is that we not silence or denounce one
00:20:08.940 | strategy of love by exalting another, that we not say, "There's blood in the streets,
00:20:17.580 | therefore intellectual critiques of critical race theory are not a priority right now,"
00:20:24.780 | nor that we say, "Demolishing critical race theory is such a priority that putting a tourniquet
00:20:30.220 | on a bleeding man in the street is irrelevant to the great struggles of our time."
00:20:34.340 | Brothers, we don't need to do this to each other.
00:20:41.520 | There are tens of thousands of pastors right now who are not trying to tether critical
00:20:50.100 | race theory to every black lover of justice.
00:20:54.480 | And there are critics of critical race theory who believe with all their heart and rightly
00:21:02.340 | that there are aspects of critical race theory that are destructive to love and justice and
00:21:08.960 | racial harmony so that their investment in criticizing critical race theory is not a
00:21:15.000 | detour away from the problem of racism but an effort to destroy it.
00:21:22.080 | So next time, in the next episode, I will try to say, "What in the world is it?
00:21:30.360 | Finally, what is critical race theory and why is it so controversial?"
00:21:37.200 | But for now, I am making two pleas from my heart to my brothers and sisters in the faith,
00:21:47.160 | and I'll just mention them as we close in reverse order this time.
00:21:52.160 | When a Christian brother is honestly analyzing and exposing false beliefs and unbiblical
00:21:58.400 | ways of thinking, we should not silence or denounce or minimize the brother by pointing
00:22:07.200 | to blood in the streets.
00:22:09.800 | And Christians should be careful, oh, so careful, not to slander a Christian brother by the
00:22:18.440 | careless use of pejorative labels like "critical race theory."
00:22:24.720 | Thank you, Pastor John.
00:22:27.280 | That was Critical Race Theory Part 1, The Relationships.
00:22:30.920 | Part 2 is coming up tomorrow, titled Critical Race Theory Part 2, The Root Problem.
00:22:36.320 | On the Ask Pastor John podcast, thank you for listening.
00:22:39.400 | We'll see you back here tomorrow.
00:22:40.840 | [END]
00:22:41.840 | 1
00:22:41.840 | The Root Problem
00:22:42.840 | The Root Problem is a controversial topic.
00:22:43.840 | It is a topic that has been discussed in the past, and it is a topic that is being discussed
00:22:44.840 | in the present.
00:22:45.840 | It is a topic that is being discussed in the present.
00:22:46.840 | It is a topic that is being discussed in the present.
00:22:47.840 | It is a topic that is being discussed in the present.
00:22:48.840 | It is a topic that is being discussed in the present.
00:22:49.840 | It is a topic that is being discussed in the present.