Kathy_Fang_final_post_auphonic
00:00:00.000 | Hello everybody, it's Sam from the Financial Samurai Podcast and in this special episode
00:00:12.720 | I have with me chef and entrepreneur Kathy Fang from Fang Restaurant.
00:00:18.340 | Welcome to the show.
00:00:19.340 | Hi.
00:00:20.340 | Thank you for having me.
00:00:21.340 | It's a big honor to be here.
00:00:23.520 | No, it's been great.
00:00:25.040 | I really enjoyed watching you.
00:00:27.560 | Was it on the Food Network?
00:00:28.560 | Was it Chef Dynasty during COVID, was it during quarantine or we're getting out of COVID?
00:00:37.040 | And it was just awesome to see you, you know, be the woman boss and run the restaurant and
00:00:42.080 | interact with your dad who is so sweet.
00:00:44.520 | So thanks so much for coming on the show.
00:00:46.320 | Yes, absolutely.
00:00:47.320 | Yeah, the show Chef Dynasty, how's the Fang, actually aired last year, time flies, last
00:00:54.600 | year, January time frame, and it was very beneficial for us because it came out right
00:01:01.720 | after COVID and people were just starting to eat at restaurants again.
00:01:08.160 | Initially, people were doing takeout.
00:01:10.440 | And so it was just a really great way to get started, get back into it again with the show
00:01:15.320 | coming out.
00:01:16.320 | No, that was great.
00:01:17.320 | It was so entertaining.
00:01:18.320 | Are you guys going to do another season or season one?
00:01:21.960 | That's it?
00:01:22.960 | No, there's nothing in the works yet.
00:01:25.440 | The concept itself, I don't know if you're like a big Food Network fan or watch a lot
00:01:30.700 | of their shows.
00:01:31.700 | This is the very first time they've ever done this type of format.
00:01:35.400 | They call it docu-series, occupational series type of thing.
00:01:40.000 | They always do food competitions, bake shows, stand and stirs, which is teach people how
00:01:44.880 | to cook, but they've never done this sort of reality base where you're following someone's
00:01:49.000 | life and what restaurant life is like.
00:01:52.920 | And on top of that, they've never done something where it was an all Asian cast about a Chinese
00:01:58.480 | restaurant.
00:01:59.480 | So there was a lot of new things within this show that we kind of had to try to figure
00:02:05.440 | out.
00:02:06.440 | For now, it's only one.
00:02:08.520 | We don't know if there'll be more seasons or whatnot, but for now, it takes a lot of
00:02:13.240 | work just to put that show together, to be quite honest.
00:02:17.400 | Yeah, that whole process is almost two years.
00:02:19.800 | Two years?
00:02:20.800 | Wow.
00:02:21.800 | In the making.
00:02:22.800 | Yeah.
00:02:23.800 | We also can't share if anything were to happen.
00:02:26.120 | Ah, okay.
00:02:27.120 | So one episode, was it 30 minutes for one episode or is it 60 minutes?
00:02:31.600 | It's actually a 50 minute show.
00:02:34.000 | So how many hours of filming to produce 50 minutes?
00:02:39.360 | So it was six episodes, 50 minutes each.
00:02:42.840 | That was one full season.
00:02:45.000 | It took, I would say back to back, it was six weeks full, five to six days a week, sometimes
00:02:51.880 | 10 hours, 11 hours a day of following us around.
00:02:56.760 | And then on top of that, they have to do backup scenes and things that they feel like they
00:03:02.040 | weren't able to cover the last time they were there.
00:03:05.180 | And so in the aggregate of putting just six episodes together, 50 minutes each, I would
00:03:09.680 | say there's probably 12 to 14 weeks of shooting.
00:03:15.160 | Wow.
00:03:16.160 | 10 hours a day.
00:03:17.160 | It's a lot of shooting just to go into putting together six episodes.
00:03:22.600 | Right.
00:03:23.600 | It's crazy.
00:03:24.600 | And I'm sure some viewers or listeners will be wondering, is there compensation to be
00:03:30.040 | on that show or is the compensation the exposure and the marketing of the restaurant?
00:03:35.320 | There is compensation, but it's nothing that's going to help make you get rich or anything
00:03:40.880 | like that.
00:03:41.880 | And that's the general trend anyhow.
00:03:44.400 | When you look at any of the reality show folks, like they don't make their money necessarily
00:03:49.400 | from the show until they hit it really big.
00:03:52.240 | Then they can get paid millions per episode and their time.
00:03:55.480 | But in the beginning, you really get paid like peanuts, but it's the exposure, right?
00:04:00.720 | It's not comparable to what we would make at the restaurant, but being able to do something
00:04:05.120 | like that is a big deal.
00:04:07.960 | And there's a little backstory to this.
00:04:10.720 | When I opened Fang Restaurant, that was over 15 years ago, it was not very common to see
00:04:16.640 | a ton of female Asians on a food show.
00:04:20.840 | And I had this dream of wanting to be essentially like the female version of Martin Yang or
00:04:29.320 | the female version or Asian version of Giada De Laurentiis.
00:04:32.120 | I wanted to have a cooking show, teach people how to cook.
00:04:35.760 | And a lot of the customers would come into our restaurant and talk to me.
00:04:39.200 | And I'm a pretty social type of restaurateur and chef.
00:04:44.360 | A lot of chefs always hide back in the kitchen and I'm very interactive.
00:04:48.520 | I come out, I talk to people, I don't really wear the chef's jacket that much.
00:04:52.800 | And so people are saying, "Hey, have you ever thought about being on TV?"
00:04:57.200 | And that's kind of what sparked the idea of wanting to be on the food show.
00:05:01.520 | But I had a lot of pushback during that timeframe.
00:05:04.080 | I want to say, I tried to pitch this idea of teaching people easy Asian cooking for
00:05:09.480 | over a decade.
00:05:11.640 | And it was always, "Nobody wants to learn Chinese food.
00:05:14.860 | It's too difficult.
00:05:16.240 | It's still considered too exotic.
00:05:19.240 | People from middle America are going to have trouble replicating these dishes.
00:05:24.200 | They're not going to know what any of these pantry ingredients are."
00:05:28.200 | And then the other thing was that, "Oh, people just love tacos, burgers, and pizza."
00:05:35.280 | Chinese food just doesn't have that spark to it yet, believe it or not.
00:05:40.360 | And I'm like, "That's crazy because Chinese food is one of the most popular cuisines.
00:05:43.920 | In fact, there's more Asian or Chinese restaurants than there are McDonald's."
00:05:48.960 | But none of those stats matter.
00:05:50.920 | And so after maybe pitching for several years, I decided that's fine, I'll go and do some
00:05:57.440 | other stuff.
00:05:58.440 | So I started competing on Food Network and did some other food shows just to get my face
00:06:03.080 | out there.
00:06:04.080 | I was blogging at the time very consistently.
00:06:06.640 | I used to have a food blog called MyFangalicious, put over 600 recipes of mine on there.
00:06:12.640 | I don't have time to do that anymore.
00:06:14.800 | So I kind of stopped that.
00:06:16.520 | But just making sure I was always putting my name out there or putting something out
00:06:20.960 | there related to Fang and our family and see what happens, right?
00:06:25.240 | Throw it out to the universe and see what happens.
00:06:28.640 | And a lot of different producers had reached out to me, I would say, over eight or nine
00:06:34.680 | years ago when I one-chopped, basically.
00:06:37.640 | After I one-chopped, a lot of people started coming and saying, "Hey, let's try to put
00:06:41.200 | a show together."
00:06:42.200 | It was never a stand and stir.
00:06:44.360 | Everyone kind of just was like, "No, no, no, we don't want to do that."
00:06:47.040 | But a lot of people thought we could do a reality thing.
00:06:50.200 | And the ideas were different.
00:06:51.920 | One of them was following female entrepreneurs who are Asian in San Francisco.
00:06:57.800 | That didn't work.
00:07:00.880 | Nobody wanted to do that.
00:07:02.120 | Too early.
00:07:03.120 | This is before Crazy Rich Asians.
00:07:05.180 | And so after multiple pitches, I think I started to kind of just...
00:07:09.880 | I don't want to say I gave up on it, but I gave it a rest.
00:07:13.720 | We stopped pitching.
00:07:15.200 | I also ended up becoming pregnant and having Ava and just started focusing on taking care
00:07:21.240 | of the baby and working.
00:07:23.040 | I started a baby food company when I had Ava.
00:07:25.740 | So there are a lot of things going on.
00:07:28.200 | And sometimes it's like finding love, right?
00:07:30.240 | When you're not looking, it happens.
00:07:32.680 | And a producer ended up finding me online and was doing a bunch of research.
00:07:39.560 | He's always creating different shows for one of the biggest production companies.
00:07:45.400 | And he randomly emailed me during COVID.
00:07:49.180 | This happened during COVID.
00:07:50.840 | I was not working.
00:07:51.840 | I just had Neo probably three months in.
00:07:57.720 | Everyone's quarantining at home.
00:07:59.120 | I'm like, "Sure, I'll talk to this guy.
00:08:01.560 | This is not going to go anywhere."
00:08:04.160 | And I had the best conversation with him.
00:08:06.280 | I really opened up to him maybe because I was home for like...
00:08:10.760 | At this point, I was home for already close to six months.
00:08:15.000 | I was quarantining before I even had Neo, before the shutdown happened, because we had
00:08:19.560 | heard about COVID in China and I was pregnant.
00:08:23.840 | We have a lot of Chinese tourists who come to our restaurant.
00:08:25.840 | So we're like, "To be safe, you should just stay home."
00:08:28.720 | So I was already quarantining.
00:08:30.800 | At that point, I was not talking to people for close to eight to nine months.
00:08:35.400 | So maybe that's why I was just like, "Yes, someone to really talk to heart to heart."
00:08:40.680 | And it was the best conversation ever.
00:08:42.720 | He really picked up on who I am, the restaurant, the family, the dynamic between my dad.
00:08:49.040 | And he put together a pitch, a sizzle reel, this is what you put together.
00:08:53.360 | It's like a deck, right?
00:08:55.280 | Elevator pitch, essentially.
00:08:56.280 | Two minutes, just piecing together things that I've done in the past.
00:08:59.600 | He didn't shoot anything with me other than our interview via Zoom like this, and sold
00:09:04.720 | a show.
00:09:05.720 | And when we were pitching, I was in Vietnam shooting things.
00:09:09.800 | We had people like another producer put together some footage and all this stuff.
00:09:16.280 | People were shooting and recording, all this stuff, none of that.
00:09:18.800 | None of that sold.
00:09:19.960 | What sold was just this guy finally kind of understanding what's interesting and piecing
00:09:26.720 | things together online and sold out of a two-minute sizzle reel.
00:09:30.960 | And that's how we got Chef Dynasty.
00:09:32.640 | That's amazing.
00:09:34.320 | What I'm hearing is things actually just don't happen.
00:09:38.080 | You have to have a vision and go out there and actually try.
00:09:43.760 | You got to try, try.
00:09:45.480 | Usually things don't happen.
00:09:46.800 | Who knows, if you try long enough, maybe something good will happen.
00:09:50.480 | Yeah, you got to put it out there.
00:09:52.680 | I could have easily said, "Hey, no one wants to do this Dandenster.
00:09:56.960 | Forget about it.
00:09:57.960 | I'm just going to keep working at the restaurant.
00:10:00.200 | The restaurant's amazing.
00:10:02.200 | I get to work with my dad.
00:10:03.840 | The place is successful.
00:10:05.560 | Just focus on that."
00:10:06.560 | In fact, I think in my culture, not I think, I know in my culture being Chinese, that's
00:10:11.560 | always been the way that you would focus on work.
00:10:14.240 | Me saying, "I want to do food shows and all this stuff," for my dad, it's like, "Let's
00:10:19.160 | not think too much.
00:10:21.080 | Don't try to get your hands into too many things.
00:10:23.740 | Focus on this one thing, do an amazing job at it, and you'll be successful."
00:10:27.960 | And so I was always like, "Well, I feel like we could really do something more."
00:10:33.240 | And I'm like, "Okay.
00:10:34.240 | Well, I'll just compete.
00:10:35.240 | I'll do whatever it is.
00:10:36.680 | Just put my name out there and see."
00:10:39.320 | If I hadn't done that, if I just gave up and said, "Well, nobody wants to see a Dandenster.
00:10:44.040 | Don't forget about it.
00:10:45.040 | I'll just keep working," then James, the producer, wouldn't have found me.
00:10:49.320 | He found me because I had all this footage out there already and content.
00:10:54.520 | He found stuff that I had filmed in the past, the cooking competitions, the articles that
00:10:59.400 | I used to write for.
00:11:01.160 | And so he pieced all that together and said, "Okay, this is something interesting."
00:11:05.040 | Yeah.
00:11:06.040 | And the quality of the show was excellent.
00:11:07.800 | It was just as good as any reality show out there that we've ever seen, I've ever seen.
00:11:13.100 | So kudos to you guys.
00:11:14.640 | Well, we got lucky because they brought on another producer who did reality shows.
00:11:21.160 | And so she had done a lot of shows for Bravo.
00:11:25.000 | She's done stuff for Housewives, Laguna Beach, I don't know if you like the orange OC.
00:11:31.360 | There's a really popular show back in the day.
00:11:33.900 | We like watching Love is Blind.
00:11:35.600 | Yeah.
00:11:36.600 | So they do a lot of shows like that.
00:11:38.800 | And so the Food Network actually brought in someone who has a lot more experience in producing
00:11:43.820 | shows that are in that vein.
00:11:46.260 | And so we really lucked out on that aspect because I know nothing about putting together
00:11:50.480 | a reality show.
00:11:51.480 | In fact, that wasn't my initial goal to do a reality show.
00:11:54.500 | My goal was, "Hey, teach people how to cook."
00:11:57.180 | Right, right.
00:11:58.180 | One thing you mentioned was that you've run your business for over 15 years.
00:12:02.180 | And I remember this because when I left in 2012, I had gone to your restaurant.
00:12:07.340 | It was one of my favorite restaurants.
00:12:08.780 | I would go with my colleagues, I'd bring clients there.
00:12:13.220 | And I can't believe it's been that long and time has flown by so quickly.
00:12:17.900 | To be able to run a restaurant for that long seems to be a very difficult thing.
00:12:24.340 | What percentage do you think of restaurants last for over 10, 15 years?
00:12:29.360 | And how do you keep it going?
00:12:31.540 | Well, the success rate of restaurants is actually quite low.
00:12:35.660 | I think the National Restaurant Association had put out data recently that only 20% of
00:12:44.540 | restaurants succeed.
00:12:46.100 | And during the first year, about 60% of them fail.
00:12:50.660 | Within five years, over 80% of those fail.
00:12:54.100 | And I'm sure that's even worse in San Francisco.
00:12:58.220 | That's the national average, right?
00:12:59.780 | But I think San Francisco, especially as of late, those numbers are probably even more
00:13:04.220 | stark than that.
00:13:05.500 | And honestly, it's very difficult because there's so many different factors into running
00:13:11.140 | a restaurant.
00:13:12.220 | And when you think about being able to open one, it's very low barrier to entry, right?
00:13:17.860 | Essentially anybody can open a restaurant as long as you have some sort of financial
00:13:22.100 | backing if somebody were to help invest or if you saved some money and you wanted to
00:13:26.500 | open a small mom and pop shop, right?
00:13:28.420 | Even my parents were able to open a place having immigrated from China with not a ton
00:13:33.980 | of money, but they were very good about saving.
00:13:36.900 | You don't need a college degree or anything like that to do it.
00:13:40.140 | And because of this, I think you have so many different types of people trying to open a
00:13:45.060 | very complicated business.
00:13:47.500 | You need someone who has good financial sense, right?
00:13:51.700 | Good business mind, but also a chef.
00:13:54.780 | You need someone who knows how to manage people, someone who's an operations type of person.
00:14:00.140 | And as a restaurateur or someone who owns a restaurant, oftentimes you are the person
00:14:04.780 | who has to do all of those things, right?
00:14:08.420 | Unless you have a ton of money behind you, then of course you hire the best person to
00:14:13.100 | do each category, but that's not how most restaurants run, right?
00:14:17.340 | They're not huge conglomerates.
00:14:18.340 | They're not huge restaurant groups.
00:14:20.420 | They're usually like a mom and pop standalone startup.
00:14:24.140 | And that one person has to do all of those things very well.
00:14:29.020 | You can fail in one area and that would just kill your business.
00:14:33.380 | So let's say finance wise, you're not good at that.
00:14:37.060 | And you're an incredible chef.
00:14:39.180 | If you don't keep track of your finances and your costs, then you don't make money, right?
00:14:43.740 | The margins are low when it comes to restaurants.
00:14:47.500 | Labor is incredibly expensive, especially in San Francisco.
00:14:51.740 | Food costs is about, I would say an average of 30%.
00:14:56.320 | Labor is probably up to 40 to 45%.
00:15:00.460 | And then you've got overhead.
00:15:02.400 | You've got so much that you have to pay out before you make any money, any kind of profit
00:15:07.640 | off of the food that you're selling.
00:15:10.220 | And even within that, there's a lot of fluctuation that you have to manage, even from like inventory,
00:15:16.600 | something as simple as inventory.
00:15:18.060 | It fluctuates almost on a weekly basis sometimes, right?
00:15:21.180 | People get something delivered to us and there's like sticker shock.
00:15:25.440 | They're like, "Wait, what happened?"
00:15:27.760 | The green beans were, I'm just going to throw that out, the random number, $3 a pound last
00:15:32.400 | week.
00:15:33.400 | Today it's $8 a pound.
00:15:34.400 | But there's, you know, like we're very involved owners.
00:15:37.680 | It's pretty rare to see, say like my dad and I, not at the restaurant, especially my dad,
00:15:44.120 | right?
00:15:45.120 | Most owners, I feel like once the place is running and they see customers and they feel
00:15:49.300 | like they're smooth, then they're not as hands-on.
00:15:51.440 | There's no owners who are there basically every single day.
00:15:54.160 | So then you need to hire, let's say a manager or someone who is keeping an eye on all of
00:15:59.120 | your inventory.
00:16:00.120 | And even then, like they may not notice every single little detail.
00:16:05.560 | It's just like having the right people.
00:16:07.120 | There's just so many pieces to making sure something will succeed.
00:16:10.720 | The way that we've done it has ensured it because we're always there, but that's not
00:16:15.120 | the way that everybody does it.
00:16:17.320 | So it's either you delegate and find people who can do it, but that'll cost you money
00:16:21.700 | too or you do it yourself.
00:16:24.100 | Right.
00:16:25.100 | Right.
00:16:26.100 | Yeah.
00:16:27.100 | Are there economies of scale given your father runs House of Nanking?
00:16:30.900 | No, there's no economies of scale based on the way that we're doing it.
00:16:35.140 | As far as if we want to expand the restaurant, right?
00:16:38.460 | Say we want to open another Fang or another House of Nanking.
00:16:42.600 | The way that we do it, it's not because we want to have our hands in everything.
00:16:48.480 | We don't trust being able to hand this over to somebody else to do it quite like we do
00:16:53.680 | it in every aspect.
00:16:56.000 | And that's okay because we actually, we really enjoy being there and talking to customers
00:17:01.100 | and seeing the reactions and making connections with the people there and creating.
00:17:06.160 | One of my favorite things to do is talking to customers and making a dish that's not
00:17:10.220 | on the menu, just creating it on the spot.
00:17:13.120 | But it would feel less authentic to the way that we want to do things.
00:17:17.680 | If let's say I had like three other locations, but I'm like never there and same thing for
00:17:22.840 | my dad.
00:17:23.840 | Now there are other ways that I've been thinking about expanding and that's more like consumer
00:17:29.560 | goods where you can do sauces or package noodles or frozen goods and things like that, where
00:17:35.600 | you can expand and share your food in places where you're not physically at, but it's through
00:17:42.720 | a distribution channel where it's not you needing to be at a restaurant and running
00:17:46.740 | the place, but it's producing a product that can be distributed through channels of say
00:17:53.040 | a grocery store or via direct to consumer via online.
00:17:57.760 | It sounds like a no brainer idea because you've been established for 15 plus years.
00:18:04.560 | Food is great, one of the best in San Francisco, if not the best Chinese restaurant in San
00:18:09.320 | Francisco.
00:18:10.320 | Thank you.
00:18:11.320 | Thank you.
00:18:12.320 | And you've done it.
00:18:13.320 | So what about that model of creating that consumer product or I think, I mean Martin
00:18:19.680 | Yang, did he come up with cooking ware and stuff?
00:18:22.720 | Yes.
00:18:23.720 | Is that a model that's hard to leverage?
00:18:26.480 | Because if it is done right, it could be highly scalable.
00:18:30.360 | Yes.
00:18:31.360 | So that's something that's really been more of a recent exploration for me.
00:18:37.280 | My dad's kind of at the point where he's 74.
00:18:40.440 | My dad is very happy with where he's at.
00:18:43.600 | He's not looking to expand, start anything else.
00:18:47.160 | He just wants to go to work every single day and complete his routine.
00:18:51.560 | For me, it's different, right?
00:18:53.400 | I am at this point, I'm in my forties and I still have a couple of years where I'm still
00:19:02.080 | quite hungry to want to do more.
00:19:04.400 | And so number one, we're going to work on a cookbook together, a father-daughter cookbook,
00:19:09.200 | which has always been a passion of mine.
00:19:11.680 | And that's one project that I need to like check off my bucket list.
00:19:15.040 | And the other thing is really like trying to explore this idea of packaged products.
00:19:20.840 | I think this is really the way to extend our legacy is if we want to grow from these two
00:19:26.960 | restaurants, what's that next step?
00:19:28.840 | It's definitely not open more restaurants.
00:19:31.160 | It's creating packaged goods.
00:19:33.160 | But from the research that I've done so far, it is not as easy as one would think.
00:19:38.840 | It's highly costly upfront to try to do it yourself because not only do you have to put
00:19:44.660 | in the money to create all the products, you work with various vendors to package, to delivery,
00:19:52.120 | to warehouse, storage, logistics.
00:19:55.080 | There's a lot involved with even something as basic as say making oatmeal or something
00:19:59.520 | like that.
00:20:00.520 | And so I know a lot of people and friends who are in that space and I see like it is
00:20:07.480 | very, very difficult to make money off of that.
00:20:10.900 | And so now I'm thinking more in terms of are there ways to do this in a collaborative space
00:20:18.160 | where you're doing these co-labs with other established brands and companies in specific
00:20:25.760 | fields, whether that's like a beverage company or a frozen goods company where, "Hey, what
00:20:32.600 | we want to do is give you our recipe and our branding.
00:20:37.040 | The product is actually yours.
00:20:39.020 | You are producing and manufacturing and doing all of that.
00:20:42.460 | And we simply take a small percentage off of the sales versus us making all of it and
00:20:48.620 | we sell it and make the majority of the profit ourself."
00:20:52.360 | We're saying, "We don't need the majority of it.
00:20:54.960 | We don't need to do all that.
00:20:56.200 | We just give you the name and the recipe."
00:20:59.920 | Right.
00:21:00.920 | No, I mean, that sounds good.
00:21:03.420 | You add it to your current product line, right?
00:21:06.400 | Yeah.
00:21:07.400 | So we're basically adding on to their product line.
00:21:09.640 | We're not creating a product line of our own from ground zero.
00:21:13.760 | Right.
00:21:14.840 | What about, I mean, fang is such a great word as well.
00:21:19.160 | I mean, it seems like such a great way to brand it because it has multiple meanings
00:21:23.180 | as well.
00:21:24.180 | I mean, what about the fang knife, the ultimate life for the connoisseur cook or something
00:21:32.320 | like that?
00:21:33.320 | Oh, yeah.
00:21:34.320 | So, I mean, there's many different angles of going about this.
00:21:37.340 | When I first started thinking about doing this stand and stir, teach people how to cook,
00:21:42.040 | there was also this whole idea of being the Asian version of Martha Stewart, right?
00:21:46.940 | Creating a whole lifestyle cookware line where when you think about entertaining through
00:21:53.960 | an Asian sort of perspective, then you can say go to Williams and Sonoma or go to Macy's
00:22:01.640 | and find Asian inspired cookware, linens, tableware, and things like that.
00:22:08.420 | That's actually from an Asian chef, not from Martha Stewart, right?
00:22:13.760 | That's one thing that's still, I think, very disappointing is that let's say you do go
00:22:18.060 | to a Williams Sonoma.
00:22:19.860 | I do see a lot of Asian motif decor, but it's from some Western person, right?
00:22:27.120 | Why is it not an Asian person who gets to represent the Asian motif cookware or the
00:22:33.480 | Asian motif vases?
00:22:35.480 | I remember two years ago, I was walking in there for Lunar New Year, and they had this
00:22:41.660 | candy tray and this cocktail tray, and it had this beautiful Ming Dynasty decor on it,
00:22:47.560 | but it was like Kathy Ireland or something like that.
00:22:50.440 | I'm like, "What, really?
00:22:52.480 | You can't pick a notable Chinese person who's in the food space to represent that or design
00:22:59.600 | it?"
00:23:00.600 | It's kind of mind-blowing to me.
00:23:03.040 | Even now, you would still struggle to find stuff like that represented within that culture
00:23:09.040 | in Target or anywhere or Macy's.
00:23:12.880 | I mean, that has to change.
00:23:14.360 | Well, it sounds like you've got to fill that hole, Kathy.
00:23:16.920 | Well, I mean, one thing at a time, I'd love to do that, but there's so many different
00:23:21.840 | things and now I have two kids, so.
00:23:24.440 | Right.
00:23:25.440 | Well, speaking of kids, because I also have two kids and our kids go to the same school,
00:23:30.120 | it is tough being a parent.
00:23:33.520 | Would you agree?
00:23:34.520 | Yes.
00:23:35.520 | It is way tougher than running a restaurant for me.
00:23:40.800 | And I agree.
00:23:41.800 | I've said this on Financial Samurai before, a day job is easy compared to raising kids,
00:23:48.120 | at least in the first five years of life.
00:23:51.120 | If I'm trying to understand how do you run a restaurant, because the hours are not your
00:23:56.320 | normal corporate job hours, and how do you have the energy to take care of your kids
00:24:01.240 | as well?
00:24:02.240 | How does that day go about for you?
00:24:03.920 | I have to say I'm very lucky and fortunate that I have a lot of help.
00:24:09.920 | I have a nanny, I have an assistant, I've got my parents, although they work just as
00:24:16.600 | much as I do, they're always able to step in and say something, like let's say the kids
00:24:23.680 | are sick, right?
00:24:25.000 | And the nanny can't help, and my husband also works a ton, and none of us can stay home
00:24:29.640 | because I can't remote work this, like I need to actually be at the restaurant, my mom can
00:24:34.880 | always help chip in and whatnot.
00:24:36.480 | So it really does take a village.
00:24:38.680 | I honestly don't know how a restaurant or a chef who's a mom can actually do it without
00:24:45.200 | the help because the hours are not conducive for being a parent, right?
00:24:50.600 | Although my mornings are free, and that's why I take my kids to school every morning,
00:24:55.000 | and I make their breakfast and lunch, and I love that time, although it's really crazy
00:24:59.320 | and frustrating, I make sure that I do that with them.
00:25:03.560 | And I also try to make sure I can pick them up from school, right?
00:25:06.280 | With restaurants, my hours are generally about, I start doing emails and work around 10, and
00:25:12.240 | then I have to go to the restaurant, I finish about 1.30 or 2, then I grab a really quick
00:25:17.240 | lunch, do some more emails, take calls, and then I go pick up my kids so I can spend a
00:25:22.000 | little time with them before I head back to work.
00:25:24.960 | And when I head back to work, that's usually around 5.30, and then I don't get back until
00:25:29.960 | it can vary between 8.30 to 10 p.m.
00:25:34.440 | So sometimes I miss my kids' bedtime, right?
00:25:37.680 | I try to get back by 8.30 to see them before they go to sleep so I can say goodnight, but
00:25:42.040 | if I miss that mark, then I don't see them.
00:25:44.880 | So it is quite hard, but energy-wise, I would say a lot of times I don't feel like I have
00:25:51.240 | the energy to deal with both, but you just kind of do it, right?
00:25:56.520 | You muster it up, and when I see my kids, I do get very excited.
00:26:01.240 | They're draining, but it provides you this sort of happiness, right?
00:26:05.080 | It's like the change of scenery, the change of pace.
00:26:07.440 | I'm working.
00:26:08.440 | I'm dealing with a lot of drama that's going on there, then I switch gears.
00:26:12.360 | I switch mode.
00:26:13.360 | I pick up my kids.
00:26:14.360 | Totally different kind of vibe, and then when the kids are a bit much, I can leave, right?
00:26:18.960 | Then I go back to the restaurant, then it's a totally different vibe.
00:26:22.880 | There's a benefit to it, right?
00:26:24.640 | If you're remote and you're home, it's always there.
00:26:27.320 | If your kids are having a meltdown, they're having a really bad day, going into your office
00:26:32.720 | is not enough sometimes.
00:26:34.540 | You're banging on that door and you're just like, "I just need 10 minutes."
00:26:38.600 | Oh my gosh, you bring up an amazing point because I just read an article about whether
00:26:44.720 | to rent out my old house or sell it or create a wellness center out of it, and the idea
00:26:50.400 | was I escaped to that house just for one day, being totally unproductive, sitting in silent,
00:26:55.880 | writing, and it was so healing because I don't have a day job and I don't have anywhere kind
00:27:00.720 | of to go to escape the chaos that is parenthood sometimes.
00:27:05.240 | So that actually is pretty good.
00:27:06.640 | You have like two centers there you can go to, but then sometimes it can be chaos on
00:27:11.720 | both sides, right?
00:27:13.320 | Getting back so late, I guess has your body become accustomed to these hours after so
00:27:18.200 | many years, 15 plus years?
00:27:20.200 | Yes.
00:27:21.200 | My body at this point is, it's been trained.
00:27:25.880 | It's been trained for these types of hours.
00:27:29.200 | I actually don't really mind it, minus having the kids.
00:27:33.320 | If I didn't have kids, I could do this forever, but with kids, I've definitely noticed my
00:27:40.560 | energy is different, right?
00:27:43.000 | In the morning, I'm more sluggish because I've got to deal with so much more.
00:27:47.520 | I feel like by the time I drop off my kids, a full day's already happened.
00:27:51.600 | They can be draining just trying to get them out the door.
00:27:54.840 | And then I have to do work, right?
00:27:57.240 | Work at the restaurant is not only mentally tiring, but also physically.
00:28:01.600 | I think sometimes people don't realize the physical aspect of it.
00:28:05.400 | You're on your feet a lot of times, 10 to 12 hours a day.
00:28:09.280 | My restaurant is three stories, so I'm always going up and down the stairs, you're lifting
00:28:13.360 | heavy things, you're in a very hot environment, steam, fires, you can get hurt.
00:28:19.800 | There's just so much movement.
00:28:21.400 | So like if we have a conference week, everybody by that end of the week, you're sore.
00:28:26.340 | You feel like you've run a marathon or have been working out every single day.
00:28:30.960 | So it's physically exhausting, it's mentally exhausting.
00:28:34.480 | I mean, I can't stand honestly for more than an hour and I don't understand how you can
00:28:40.760 | stand for 10 hours.
00:28:41.760 | I mean, you must have like super legs or super feet where you're just like, you know.
00:28:47.240 | Your body gets used to it.
00:28:48.960 | But then see, the problem is I can't sit for very long.
00:28:52.440 | So because my body has acclimated to standing so much that I actually prefer standing.
00:28:59.220 | There's a lot of circumstances where we're with people or with friends and they'll be
00:29:03.160 | like, "Oh, sit."
00:29:04.160 | I'm like, "No, I prefer to stand."
00:29:05.600 | Because that's my natural state.
00:29:07.280 | If I sit for too long, my back starts to hurt.
00:29:11.240 | So I actually think when people do office jobs and have to sit and hover and type, my
00:29:16.480 | back, my shoulder, like everything starts to hurt.
00:29:20.480 | It just takes like about two hours and I'm like, "Oh, how do people do this?"
00:29:25.240 | So grass is always greener on the other side.
00:29:27.360 | I don't know.
00:29:28.360 | Well, no.
00:29:29.360 | For this, that term wouldn't work.
00:29:30.360 | It would just be like, yeah, we think that the other is more difficult, but...
00:29:34.240 | That's so funny.
00:29:35.240 | No, I mean, yeah.
00:29:36.240 | 10, 12 hours.
00:29:37.240 | I mean, I guess that's good for fitness then.
00:29:39.560 | Yes, I clock in a lot of steps.
00:29:42.160 | I don't know what will happen if I stop working and moving around.
00:29:45.920 | If I clock in 15,000, 20,000 steps a day, and I go from, "Oh, I don't have to work anymore,"
00:29:52.600 | and I sit all the time, how do I make up for all of that?
00:29:55.920 | Well, maybe it'll be good because you won't be surrounded by food so much.
00:29:59.400 | Because I'm assuming you're always tasting your food too.
00:30:02.080 | Or is there a point where you're just like...
00:30:03.080 | I am tasting.
00:30:04.080 | You're like, okay.
00:30:05.080 | You're not overeating just because food is everywhere because...
00:30:08.640 | I don't overeat, but I do taste.
00:30:10.840 | Right.
00:30:11.840 | Yeah.
00:30:12.840 | So there's a lot of meals there where it becomes, "Oh, yeah."
00:30:17.240 | Right, right.
00:30:18.240 | No, actually, I have experience standing in front of a hot stove because I used to work
00:30:22.160 | at McDonald's flipping the burgers, quarter pounders, McMuffins.
00:30:27.200 | I would drop some patties on the ground sometimes, and then I put it back into the heater.
00:30:31.640 | Sorry, guys, from 25 years ago or 30 years ago.
00:30:35.960 | But it's a lot.
00:30:36.960 | The oil is splattering.
00:30:38.300 | People are yelling at you.
00:30:39.640 | And so I really respect the physical, intense nature of getting great dishes out in a timely
00:30:46.000 | manner too.
00:30:47.000 | And the pressure is always on.
00:30:48.960 | Yeah.
00:30:49.960 | I mean, it is.
00:30:51.680 | Now I want to know, can you make all of that at home for your kids?
00:30:55.120 | You'd be like, "Listen, Dad can make an egg McMuffin just like McDonald's, but even better."
00:31:01.960 | Sure.
00:31:02.960 | Why not?
00:31:03.960 | I mean, I can.
00:31:05.680 | I do a mean scrambled egg and stuff like that.
00:31:08.680 | But you know, the thing about cooking for me is I play a lot of tennis and pickleball.
00:31:12.680 | So I have cut my fingers and had oil splattered on me many times before.
00:31:18.120 | And then as soon as I do that, I can't play my love of my life, these games that make
00:31:23.000 | me happy.
00:31:24.320 | And so I decided I just don't have the skills to chop without injuring myself one out of
00:31:29.400 | 10 times.
00:31:30.760 | And so I stopped.
00:31:31.760 | I mean, have your injuries, do you get injured cooking?
00:31:36.680 | I do.
00:31:37.680 | I would say I probably get injured a little less than most chefs because I actually spend
00:31:44.000 | a lot of my time outside of the kitchen these days.
00:31:47.400 | I'm always interacting with people, but I'd say I probably cook 30% of my time at the
00:31:52.280 | restaurant.
00:31:53.280 | And it's usually when we're really busy and we call it in the weeds, right?
00:31:58.240 | Like the chefs are swamped, they can't keep up with the tickets.
00:32:02.080 | Then I go in and I cook and I help try to pound out as many dishes or I make things
00:32:06.960 | that are off menu.
00:32:08.400 | Someone has a very specific diet, I'll do that.
00:32:11.720 | So under those circumstances, I'll get injured here and there, but probably not as often
00:32:17.000 | as most chefs do.
00:32:18.360 | I mean, you always get burned, you get cuts.
00:32:22.400 | Those happen here and there, but there's some gnarly, gnarly accidents that I know that
00:32:27.680 | other chefs get, and it's not pretty, but my worst is probably I had a large pot of
00:32:35.560 | soup spill onto my legs and it went into my shoe and got trapped in my shoe.
00:32:43.160 | It was like boiling that came right off the stove.
00:32:46.840 | So by the time I took off my shoe and my sock, I had like a pretty serious burn on it, went
00:32:52.520 | to like the emergency room.
00:32:54.640 | And my foot, I couldn't wear a shoe for a week because the blister on the foot was like
00:33:00.600 | huge.
00:33:01.600 | Oh my goodness.
00:33:03.020 | Things like that are pretty common.
00:33:04.720 | Some people get them on their hands.
00:33:07.000 | Right, right, right, right.
00:33:08.800 | So your dad is 74, you said, and you said you have several more years into you.
00:33:14.360 | Are you sure you don't have like 30 more years like your dad into grinding?
00:33:18.120 | Oh my God, I don't want to do that.
00:33:21.120 | It's like different mentality, I think.
00:33:23.360 | For my parents, you know, they're immigrants, and so that's all they know how to do.
00:33:28.560 | There's no such thing as balance, right?
00:33:30.400 | My parents also never really took care of me.
00:33:33.920 | They were always working on the restaurant, and so they benefited from having brothers
00:33:37.740 | and sisters all take turns taking care of me.
00:33:41.200 | They don't know what to do if they were not to work.
00:33:44.740 | And I used to be pretty frustrated and say, "Why are you guys working so hard?
00:33:49.040 | You don't even need to work anymore, retire, live a good life."
00:33:53.020 | And then when COVID happened, I realized that it was bad for their health to actually retire
00:33:58.600 | because they were forced into retirement for about a year and a half.
00:34:02.560 | And health-wise, they deteriorated very quickly.
00:34:06.200 | Was it like a mental?
00:34:07.920 | Blood pressure.
00:34:08.920 | Oh, physical too?
00:34:09.920 | No, it's like, yeah, physical, blood pressure, diabetes, everything was going through the
00:34:14.240 | roof because when you're at home, nothing else to do but eat.
00:34:18.480 | And so they were like cooking and eating and, you know, you get bored.
00:34:23.320 | And so, and they were not exercising like they normally are where they're always walking
00:34:27.320 | and moving and using their brains.
00:34:29.360 | They were just sitting.
00:34:31.840 | They're sitting, they lost strength in their legs to walk.
00:34:35.480 | My dad lost his voice because he wasn't using his vocal cords and they were sleeping so
00:34:40.680 | much that their memory was getting foggy.
00:34:44.640 | And that just happened within a year of retirement.
00:34:48.660 | So now we've all realized that as long as they're not stressed out and they're just
00:34:54.520 | working because they need a purpose, right?
00:34:57.360 | They need an activity, something to keep them busy.
00:35:00.440 | My dad always wants to do this handiworks and projects, even though the restaurant's
00:35:04.520 | already busy.
00:35:05.520 | He's like, "Oh, I want to fix this lantern."
00:35:07.460 | I'm like, "Hire somebody, it's like a waste of your time."
00:35:10.280 | But what I realized is like my dad likes it.
00:35:13.240 | It's like a challenge for him.
00:35:15.040 | And then it's like, he's like thinking he has to use his hands, he has to try to be
00:35:20.080 | nimble.
00:35:21.080 | So he fixed a lantern.
00:35:22.800 | He does all these little weird projects and now I don't get upset anymore.
00:35:26.800 | I used to get frustrated.
00:35:27.800 | I'm like, "Spend the money and hire somebody to do it.
00:35:31.160 | Stop doing it yourself."
00:35:32.520 | Now I'm like, "Wonderful, found another hobby and another little project to do."
00:35:36.920 | So yeah, like that's my dad, but we come from a different generation, right?
00:35:42.300 | Now a lot of what we grew up from is about balance, finding balance in your life.
00:35:48.800 | And so I don't want to work that way.
00:35:50.840 | I don't want to be walking to work and doing the same thing when I'm 70.
00:35:56.080 | In fact, I think I'm ready in maybe five to seven years to really take it easy and spend
00:36:02.840 | more time being a parent, spending more time with my kids.
00:36:06.520 | I think that's great.
00:36:07.520 | And the thing is, you've done it, you're a restaurateur, you've done it for 15 plus years.
00:36:13.040 | Our kids are only going to be with us for so long and then they're gone, right?
00:36:16.600 | 18, 19 years old, the see you later parents.
00:36:18.840 | And maybe what's the statistic that says something like only 10% of the remaining time we spend
00:36:24.560 | with our children is after they are 18, 19 years old.
00:36:28.400 | So sad.
00:36:29.400 | I know.
00:36:30.400 | I mean, that's the thing that I am starting to struggle with is that right now it seems
00:36:35.120 | okay because my kids want to spend time with me, but they're also kind of used to, "Oh,
00:36:41.760 | okay.
00:36:42.760 | Well, mommy's not here at night and whatnot."
00:36:44.280 | But what I'm also seeing is the independence that's happening, especially with my first
00:36:49.000 | child, right?
00:36:50.360 | She wants to do things herself and all that and I'm seeing the big change already.
00:36:54.920 | And I really don't want to miss out on all of that.
00:36:57.360 | And it goes by so quickly.
00:36:58.520 | And like you said, once they hit 18 and they're out the door, but a lot of parents are saying
00:37:02.600 | their kids at 12 and 13 already don't want to spend time with their parents.
00:37:06.720 | That window is so small.
00:37:08.240 | If I miss out on that window, then that's something money can't buy back.
00:37:14.880 | And I can put a pause to what I'm doing if I wanted to.
00:37:19.120 | I feel like I'm at that point where I'm very happy with what I've been able to accomplish
00:37:25.480 | and everything is quite stable.
00:37:28.120 | So if I wanted to step away and let's say not be as hands-on, things will still be okay.
00:37:33.800 | FANG will still be around.
00:37:36.120 | House of Nanking will still be around.
00:37:38.320 | But the benefit is I can actually really hone in on that time with my kids before they say,
00:37:43.920 | "I don't want you in my room," which I hope that will not happen.
00:37:49.080 | But that's just sometimes I'm very envious, I think, of parents who've already started
00:37:55.720 | on that path where they're already just home, spending time with their kids.
00:38:00.480 | Because that's really something, like I said, money can't buy that time back for you.
00:38:05.640 | Right.
00:38:06.640 | Well, I have to say, I feel what you are doing is very admirable.
00:38:10.880 | It's so much work to be an entrepreneur, to be a restauranteur, and I really want to thank
00:38:15.960 | you for your time and just keep it up.
00:38:17.840 | I've been going to a restaurant for 15 years.
00:38:20.160 | It's the best Chinese restaurant in San Francisco.
00:38:23.200 | And I hope all listeners, when they go to San Francisco, go visit Fang Restaurant as
00:38:27.320 | well.
00:38:28.320 | For listeners who want to see what you're up to or keep in touch, where should they
00:38:31.720 | find you?
00:38:32.840 | They can go to Chef Kathy Fang.
00:38:36.220 | That's my Instagram handle, or they can go to KathyFang.com, which is my website.
00:38:40.700 | All right, Kathy.
00:38:41.700 | Well, I hope you have a good rest of the day and pickup goes well and smoothly for you.
00:38:46.580 | And I'll see you around.
00:38:48.580 | Thank you.
00:38:49.580 | Yes.
00:38:50.580 | Have a great day.
00:38:51.580 | It was fun chatting with you.
00:38:52.580 | Yeah, good chatting.
00:38:53.580 | All right, everyone.
00:38:54.580 | If you enjoyed this podcast, I'd love a share, subscribe, and a positive review.
00:38:57.900 | It helps keep me going.
00:38:59.980 | Every single episode takes hours and hours to produce.
00:39:02.860 | If you want to keep in touch, check out the Financial Samurai newsletter at FinancialSamurai.com/news.
00:39:07.340 | Talk to you all later.
00:39:10.500 | [music]
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