All The Hacks: Self-Discipline and Goal Setting
00:00:00.000 | It was never about getting rich,
00:00:01.440 | never about being a billionaire or anything like that.
00:00:03.520 | I wanted to pursue financial independence for one,
00:00:06.840 | two reasons, two reasons.
00:00:09.760 | And I think both of these will resonate with you.
00:00:11.280 | Number one, when I was growing up,
00:00:14.200 | my dad worked really hard,
00:00:16.000 | but he wasn't there much 'cause he worked all the time.
00:00:18.240 | And so I rarely saw him.
00:00:19.720 | And I said, when I am a father someday,
00:00:23.320 | I wanna be there for every ball game,
00:00:25.360 | every ballet recital, every field trip.
00:00:29.320 | I wanna be there with my kids.
00:00:30.640 | I wanna be the best father I can possibly be.
00:00:33.840 | And I can't work 40, 50, 60 hours a week
00:00:37.840 | and have commuting to be able to do that.
00:00:39.560 | So I started with that, and that was the one thing.
00:00:41.120 | The second thing I said,
00:00:42.680 | I heard a quote once that said,
00:00:43.600 | "The world is a book,
00:00:45.000 | "and those who don't travel read just a page."
00:00:48.640 | Like the world is so amazing, right?
00:00:50.480 | So big, and there's so many things to see out there.
00:00:53.320 | And I wanted to see as much of it as I can
00:00:55.660 | while we're here on this earth.
00:00:57.640 | And I knew that, again, being broke
00:00:59.800 | and working 40, 50 hours a week
00:01:01.120 | and getting my two weeks paid vacation every year,
00:01:03.400 | that wasn't gonna cut it.
00:01:04.280 | So combining those two things,
00:01:05.680 | that's why I pursued real estate and business
00:01:08.560 | and wealth in general.
00:01:10.280 | - Hello, and welcome to another episode of "All The Hacks,"
00:01:13.120 | a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.
00:01:16.040 | I'm Chris Hutchins, and I'm excited to have you on my journey
00:01:18.560 | to optimize life, to maximize happiness,
00:01:21.040 | and to do it all while spending less and saving more.
00:01:24.340 | So today, I'm sharing the second half
00:01:26.240 | of my conversation with Brandon Turner.
00:01:28.640 | If you didn't listen two weeks ago,
00:01:30.800 | Brandon had an incredible career in real estate,
00:01:33.640 | and that episode covered so many
00:01:35.520 | different aspects of the topic.
00:01:37.280 | Well, not unsurprisingly,
00:01:38.800 | successful people often have more than one area
00:01:41.360 | in their life that you can learn a lot from.
00:01:43.880 | And after we finished up the real estate conversation,
00:01:46.120 | we covered everything from setting goals
00:01:48.400 | to hacking self-discipline, using performance coaches,
00:01:51.820 | finding the balance between audacious business goals
00:01:54.400 | and quality family time, and the mindset Brandon uses
00:01:57.880 | to build massive real estate empires
00:02:00.440 | while also living an ideal life.
00:02:02.940 | Oh, and since he lives in Maui,
00:02:04.640 | I got all his recommendations for your next trip there,
00:02:07.760 | some of which I actually took
00:02:09.240 | on the trip we just got back from.
00:02:11.400 | So let's get into the rest of my conversation
00:02:13.760 | with Brandon Turner.
00:02:15.000 | (upbeat music)
00:02:17.580 | Brandon, welcome back.
00:02:21.760 | I wanna dive right into mindset and systems
00:02:24.400 | because you've talked about that in our last conversation.
00:02:26.880 | You've talked about it a lot in the past.
00:02:29.120 | What are most people getting wrong
00:02:30.680 | when it comes to their mindset
00:02:32.120 | and the systems they put around it?
00:02:33.640 | - This might not be true for this audience, right?
00:02:35.480 | 'Cause if you're listening to this show,
00:02:37.160 | like you're probably already a pretty high achiever.
00:02:39.640 | You've got goals, you've got things you wanna do in life.
00:02:41.760 | But I'll say that most people live life in the backseat.
00:02:45.060 | Like they're being driven around
00:02:47.840 | in this crazy taxi around the world,
00:02:49.480 | and they're just doing whatever comes at them, right?
00:02:50.920 | They're not taking any control.
00:02:52.400 | So I would say 90% of the world is that way.
00:02:56.240 | They have no mindset
00:02:57.760 | because they don't even know that's a thing.
00:02:58.880 | They don't know that there's a thing
00:02:59.800 | they should be concerned about, right?
00:03:01.200 | Like they work the same job, they hate,
00:03:03.520 | and they're miserable for 50 years,
00:03:06.080 | and they just look forward to the weekends
00:03:07.120 | where they can drink with their buddies
00:03:08.520 | because that's just what life is.
00:03:09.720 | So assuming that these people are not that type,
00:03:14.240 | what are they getting?
00:03:15.080 | I mean, it's really just, and it's related, right?
00:03:17.240 | It's knowing that anything is possible.
00:03:20.060 | Anything is possible.
00:03:21.600 | It's like your mom said when you were a little kid, right?
00:03:23.200 | You can do anything if you try.
00:03:24.760 | Like it's totally true, right?
00:03:25.960 | You can do anything.
00:03:26.920 | You can make millions in real estate.
00:03:28.280 | You could build a tech company.
00:03:29.320 | You could be a digital nomad
00:03:31.840 | and live on points and 500 bucks a month or whatever.
00:03:34.440 | Like you could do whatever you want.
00:03:36.300 | So I'm a big believer of like,
00:03:37.800 | start with the feeling you wanna have.
00:03:39.880 | Like start with a feeling of life you wanna have.
00:03:41.720 | Define your ideal day.
00:03:43.000 | Like I love that practice where you're just like,
00:03:44.360 | what does the ideal perfect day look like?
00:03:46.840 | And then jot that down,
00:03:48.560 | and now you know where you're headed.
00:03:50.140 | Now you can find the strategy that's gonna get you there.
00:03:52.660 | But the mindset of this like,
00:03:54.300 | I want an ideal life and an ideal life is possible for me.
00:03:58.060 | So I'm going to pursue it with every ounce of my being.
00:04:01.260 | And almost everybody I know who is incredibly happy in life
00:04:04.220 | and incredibly successful, not just from money,
00:04:06.260 | but from anything, right?
00:04:07.100 | People I know who have an amazing marriage,
00:04:09.620 | it's because they know that having an amazing marriage
00:04:11.660 | is possible and they work for it.
00:04:13.700 | And they fight for it because they know it's possible.
00:04:16.780 | And so that's the thing I think a lot of people
00:04:18.300 | in general miss, is they just,
00:04:20.160 | they never take time to envision what's possible.
00:04:23.120 | And they just do whatever's in front of them.
00:04:26.400 | - I'm gonna assume you're one of those people
00:04:27.900 | that wants an amazing marriage.
00:04:30.000 | Can you tell me about, you know,
00:04:31.520 | things that you've done intentionally to make that possible?
00:04:35.060 | - Yeah, man.
00:04:36.160 | So I set goals every year.
00:04:38.720 | This is one of those life-changing things I ever did.
00:04:40.760 | My wife and I, every year on the first or maybe the second,
00:04:43.160 | whenever we get a babysitter,
00:04:44.640 | we will go out and spend like half a day,
00:04:46.560 | or maybe even a full day,
00:04:47.480 | doing our couple's goal-setting retreat.
00:04:50.600 | Now, in a perfect world, I'd go for like two or three days.
00:04:52.940 | We'd go on the vacation, you know,
00:04:54.040 | go to the mountains or whatever.
00:04:55.220 | And I got little kids at home.
00:04:56.740 | I got a two-year-old and a six-year-old.
00:04:57.820 | So right now that's not happening,
00:04:58.840 | but we'll get out for a day.
00:05:00.460 | And we will just work together
00:05:04.180 | on where we wanna be as a couple.
00:05:06.060 | And that starts with a reflection on your past.
00:05:08.100 | Like where were we last year?
00:05:09.600 | Where did we struggle?
00:05:10.440 | What are we doing right?
00:05:11.560 | What are we doing wrong?
00:05:13.080 | And then where do we wanna be?
00:05:14.620 | You know, so five years ago,
00:05:16.220 | we said within five years, we wanted a house in Hawaii.
00:05:19.060 | We wanted a house where we could have people come and visit,
00:05:21.980 | family and friends to come and stay with us.
00:05:23.920 | I said, I wanted to surf more.
00:05:25.500 | I said, I wanted to, you know,
00:05:26.580 | I had all this stuff we wanted to do as a couple.
00:05:28.820 | And it wasn't five years later.
00:05:29.940 | We did it like nine months later.
00:05:31.320 | 'Cause as soon as we defined what was possible
00:05:33.580 | and we had a goal, all of a sudden it was like,
00:05:35.620 | well, hey, you wanna go to Hawaii for a couple months
00:05:38.020 | this winter while it's miserable and rainy
00:05:39.580 | in the Pacific Northwest?
00:05:40.740 | Sure, so we went there.
00:05:42.100 | And because we knew we wanted to end up there someday,
00:05:44.000 | we started looking at real estate
00:05:45.540 | and all of a sudden we found a house, right?
00:05:47.580 | Is that law of attraction?
00:05:48.540 | I mean, is that woo woo stuff?
00:05:49.660 | Or is that we had a vision for where we wanted to go
00:05:52.060 | and we worked towards it.
00:05:52.900 | So we do that in our marriage.
00:05:54.100 | We set goals together every year.
00:05:55.760 | We visit them every quarter.
00:05:58.060 | I have a sheet hung up on my bathroom mirror
00:06:00.940 | that has our goals for the year,
00:06:03.060 | as well as spots for checking off.
00:06:04.860 | And I'm not very good at checking honestly with this.
00:06:06.600 | I wish I checked it every single day,
00:06:07.900 | all like the habits that are gonna give us
00:06:10.460 | a better marriage, but we at least have it in the mirror
00:06:13.420 | every single day when I open up my toothbrush.
00:06:16.340 | And so just being intentional,
00:06:18.420 | again, doing the things that we do in business
00:06:21.060 | and applying them to our personal life,
00:06:23.260 | that has made such a difference on the relationship side.
00:06:26.140 | - Do you do the same thing for other goals in life,
00:06:29.100 | whether it's business goals
00:06:30.180 | or your own personal non-relationship goals?
00:06:32.760 | - Yeah, yes, very similar.
00:06:34.100 | So this is my framework and I didn't invent this.
00:06:36.020 | I have a journal actually, is it back here somewhere, maybe?
00:06:39.140 | No, it's not, all right.
00:06:39.980 | So I have a journal called "The Intention Journal"
00:06:41.940 | and I basically just got everybody journal in the world,
00:06:44.700 | every goal journal there was,
00:06:46.080 | and I used all of them for a while
00:06:47.620 | over the course of like three years,
00:06:49.280 | and then I just made my own.
00:06:50.180 | But I'm not saying you have to get that one.
00:06:51.540 | I'm gonna give you a really simple system that I use.
00:06:54.820 | So I have a vision for what my life to head, right?
00:06:58.780 | I have longer term goals.
00:07:00.020 | Like I'm trying to buy $10 billion of real estate
00:07:01.980 | in 10 years.
00:07:03.020 | That's just so far out there though.
00:07:04.180 | So I don't like thinking in terms of decade goals,
00:07:07.620 | even though I might have them.
00:07:08.620 | I don't like thinking in terms of even three-year goals,
00:07:10.580 | even though I have them.
00:07:11.660 | Even one-year goals, I don't love that much.
00:07:14.140 | It's just too far away.
00:07:15.780 | So what I like to do is I like to do quarterly
00:07:17.460 | or 90-day goals.
00:07:18.460 | There's a great book out there called "The 12-Week Year"
00:07:21.780 | where I get a lot of this from.
00:07:22.940 | "The 12-Week Year" by Brian Moran,
00:07:25.620 | I think is this guy's name.
00:07:26.980 | So the idea is like every quarter,
00:07:29.640 | I set three goals for myself.
00:07:31.140 | I say, what are the three things
00:07:32.300 | this quarter I wanna do?
00:07:33.500 | Typically, it's one relational goal.
00:07:35.580 | Usually it's a fitness goal
00:07:36.780 | and usually it's a business goal.
00:07:38.780 | And so, like for example, this quarter,
00:07:41.100 | one of my goals was simply to close
00:07:43.420 | the six apartment complexes we had under contract.
00:07:46.200 | By the end of the quarter,
00:07:47.040 | I wanted to be able to close those
00:07:48.380 | and raise the money.
00:07:49.860 | And there's a lot of things that go into that,
00:07:50.900 | but that's the idea.
00:07:52.060 | So now I've got my three goals written out.
00:07:54.220 | In fact, one of my goals for the last quarter of the year
00:07:56.460 | is gonna be to spend three days without the kids.
00:07:59.720 | That's a weird goal, right?
00:08:00.620 | But that's the relationship one.
00:08:01.980 | I want, I've never,
00:08:04.320 | my wife and I have not had a night alone
00:08:06.460 | without the kids in six years.
00:08:08.760 | Like since Rosie was born,
00:08:09.780 | we have not actually had a vacation
00:08:11.020 | where somebody watched Rosie, yeah.
00:08:12.700 | And I'm like, this is a long time.
00:08:14.460 | Like, so now the kids,
00:08:15.780 | like the youngest is no longer breastfeeding.
00:08:17.700 | Now he can, he's eating on his own.
00:08:19.300 | He's a big kid now, two years old.
00:08:21.220 | Now we can do it.
00:08:22.100 | So I have the goal for the quarter.
00:08:24.500 | Every Sunday night, every single Sunday night,
00:08:26.780 | and again, if I miss it, I'll do Monday morning.
00:08:28.780 | I sit down and I rewrite what those three goals are.
00:08:31.500 | I write what is the purpose for the goal.
00:08:34.660 | I write that every week.
00:08:35.540 | Why do I want that goal?
00:08:37.580 | It just reminds me,
00:08:38.500 | it gets me back into the right mentality of like,
00:08:40.260 | what am I doing all this for?
00:08:41.940 | Then I write down, what is my weekly goal?
00:08:44.900 | Like to be on track for my quarterly goal,
00:08:47.140 | what's the weekly goal?
00:08:47.980 | So I write that the weekly goal down.
00:08:49.860 | Then I always write, what's my most important next step?
00:08:53.820 | Like the smallest tangible thing I can do
00:08:57.260 | to accomplish my weekly goal.
00:08:59.140 | So let's say my weekly goal is to hire a new assistant.
00:09:02.220 | Okay, well, what's the most important next step on that?
00:09:04.840 | Well, I guess, yeah,
00:09:05.680 | I gotta put a job application out there.
00:09:07.160 | Nope, not good enough.
00:09:08.180 | Well, go deeper.
00:09:09.780 | I need to open up my computer and write a job description.
00:09:13.180 | Can I go even more specific?
00:09:14.860 | I need to go to Google
00:09:16.100 | and Google assistant job descriptions.
00:09:19.340 | So now, what I've actually done here,
00:09:21.180 | just in the past three minutes of rambling here,
00:09:23.900 | I took a 10-year vision.
00:09:26.180 | I went from 10 years to three, to one, to 90 days,
00:09:29.820 | or a quarter, down to a week, down to a day,
00:09:33.320 | down to an action.
00:09:35.220 | And every single morning I wake up and do the same thing.
00:09:37.100 | So every morning of the week, I just wake up and I say,
00:09:39.380 | what is my most important step
00:09:40.620 | to accomplish the weekly goal?
00:09:42.420 | Every day.
00:09:43.260 | So I've taken a 10-year goal
00:09:44.900 | of buying $10 billion of real estate,
00:09:46.900 | and I've boiled the entire thing down to a 30-second task.
00:09:50.260 | Go to Google and type in
00:09:51.780 | personal assistant job description, and hit enter.
00:09:55.340 | My entire future, my family's future,
00:09:57.580 | my generational wealth,
00:09:58.940 | is all dependent on a 30-second Google search.
00:10:02.500 | And then I do it.
00:10:03.560 | And then I can do it again five minutes after that.
00:10:05.780 | So that's my entire goal-setting process,
00:10:07.860 | and I just bake it inside my journal.
00:10:09.260 | But yeah, that's it.
00:10:10.220 | - And are there systems you use throughout the day
00:10:12.220 | to keep on track?
00:10:13.180 | You know, if you're looking at it in the morning,
00:10:14.980 | but you wanna, is there a way you structure your day
00:10:17.060 | or your workflow to be more productive?
00:10:20.020 | - I have a personal assistant,
00:10:21.620 | so she makes me do a lot of things that are important.
00:10:23.420 | So actually, let's talk about hacking real quick, right?
00:10:25.620 | Like the idea of like, you know, credit card hacking,
00:10:28.220 | or travel hacking, or, you know, house hacking.
00:10:31.540 | Let's talk about self-discipline hacking.
00:10:33.740 | I have zero self-discipline.
00:10:35.580 | Almost none.
00:10:36.420 | Like if there's a cookie on the counter, I will eat it.
00:10:39.260 | If there is a meeting I can skip, I will skip it.
00:10:43.020 | If there is anything I need to do, I will let myself down.
00:10:45.700 | I will lie to myself.
00:10:47.100 | I will disappoint myself all day long.
00:10:49.540 | As a result, I'm really bad at getting things done.
00:10:53.080 | So I've had to hack my way
00:10:54.660 | into being productive and being efficient.
00:10:57.060 | I'll give you a couple examples.
00:10:58.260 | One, I hire a personal assistant.
00:11:00.420 | So Jane, who's my assistant right now, Jane's awesome.
00:11:03.060 | Jane makes sure that I do the most important things,
00:11:05.380 | and will yell at me.
00:11:06.220 | And I tell her that she has permission
00:11:07.380 | to like force me to do things.
00:11:09.700 | And there's ways to do it, right?
00:11:11.300 | For example, the massage.
00:11:12.300 | I mentioned earlier, I get a massage once a week.
00:11:15.460 | I don't get a massage because it feels good.
00:11:17.720 | I mean, yes, it feels good, right?
00:11:18.820 | Like massages are fun.
00:11:20.340 | I get a massage because I know the most important thing
00:11:23.600 | as an entrepreneur that I can do
00:11:25.780 | is have uninterrupted thinking time every week.
00:11:29.580 | But I don't do it.
00:11:31.620 | Like I won't do it.
00:11:32.540 | I will write down, I'll put on my calendar, you know,
00:11:34.640 | go sit at the beach and go think for an hour and a half.
00:11:36.820 | Or just process, journal, I won't do it.
00:11:39.420 | 'Cause I lie to myself,
00:11:40.580 | and I disappoint myself all the time.
00:11:42.660 | But when Adriana, my Brazilian masseuse,
00:11:46.340 | shows up in my driveway,
00:11:47.940 | and she's pulling behind this giant massage chair,
00:11:50.580 | well, now I'm gonna do it, right?
00:11:52.500 | 'Cause I've now obligated myself to somebody else.
00:11:54.960 | So then I go and get an hour and a half long massage.
00:11:56.980 | And most of the best ideas and problem solving I've had
00:12:00.020 | are during that massage.
00:12:01.420 | So a massage is simply a way
00:12:04.440 | that I have hacked my lack of self-discipline
00:12:07.280 | to do the things that I wanna do.
00:12:08.600 | I hire a personal trainer to come to my house to work out.
00:12:11.080 | I do the food thing, like you said.
00:12:12.720 | I have somebody now helping with the kids
00:12:14.520 | so that I can do other things.
00:12:15.440 | I align my life so that way I am obligated
00:12:19.240 | to do the things that I know I need to do,
00:12:21.680 | but lack the self-discipline to get it done.
00:12:25.320 | I even have accountability groups,
00:12:27.440 | like mastermind groups that we meet every week
00:12:29.160 | and go through our goals.
00:12:30.360 | All this is designed to get me to just do something
00:12:33.700 | 'cause I'm so darn lazy.
00:12:35.700 | Let me just throw out a couple more ideas
00:12:37.500 | in case people are interested in more ways
00:12:39.260 | they can kind of hack their laziness
00:12:40.420 | or their self-discipline.
00:12:42.420 | One of them, I am a big believer in like checking boxes.
00:12:46.580 | Maybe I can, there's a great, the Seinfeld strategy.
00:12:49.380 | Let's talk about this one.
00:12:50.460 | Seinfeld has this quote from years ago.
00:12:53.140 | It's probably made up.
00:12:53.960 | It's probably one of those like Abe Lincoln
00:12:54.980 | said it kind of things,
00:12:55.820 | but where he said, "Every day he writes one joke.
00:12:59.380 | "And when he's done with the joke,
00:13:00.440 | "he puts a big check mark on like a spreadsheet
00:13:03.360 | "or something like that.
00:13:04.340 | "And after a while,
00:13:05.180 | "you start getting a lot of check marks in a row."
00:13:07.620 | And so his advice to this up-and-coming comedian he gave
00:13:10.900 | was don't break the chain of check marks.
00:13:13.540 | Just don't break the chain.
00:13:14.920 | So I'm a bigger believer of doing little tiny actions
00:13:19.240 | over and over and over and over,
00:13:20.120 | and then putting them on a checklist.
00:13:21.980 | Like that's why I said I have a checklist
00:13:23.100 | inside my bathroom mirror
00:13:25.100 | for some of our relationship habits.
00:13:26.860 | But I do it in my journal every single morning.
00:13:28.460 | So for example, like read one page.
00:13:30.540 | I can read one page.
00:13:31.880 | Or I can, I'm really bad at flossing, right?
00:13:35.500 | So like I'll be like, I'm gonna floss.
00:13:37.140 | Like these are things, now I'm not good at it,
00:13:39.420 | but because I'm tracking it now
00:13:40.940 | and because I have an accountability group
00:13:43.380 | that looks at my tracking,
00:13:45.500 | I've now, like I would look stupid
00:13:47.420 | if I showed up and was like,
00:13:48.260 | "Yeah, well, I said I was gonna eat healthy all week,
00:13:50.480 | "but I just ate, you know, Cheetos and Mai Tais all week."
00:13:53.700 | Like I would just look stupid
00:13:54.620 | 'cause I don't wanna disappoint my accountability buddies.
00:13:57.500 | Like the other guys that are like,
00:13:58.580 | "Hey, we're gonna, you know, build our businesses too."
00:14:01.020 | So I don't wanna look bad in front of other people.
00:14:03.580 | So I will then get that, what do you wanna call it?
00:14:07.460 | Account, I guess accountability around them.
00:14:10.140 | In fact, in my own company,
00:14:11.220 | I operate a system called EOS.
00:14:13.700 | Have you read Traction?
00:14:14.820 | Gino Wickman's Traction?
00:14:16.220 | So Gino Wickman has a book called Traction.
00:14:17.940 | It's right here.
00:14:19.100 | Get a grip on your business.
00:14:22.800 | It's basically a system for pulling all the different pieces
00:14:27.800 | of your business together into one cohesive system.
00:14:31.200 | And so it's kinda like what I said earlier with the goals.
00:14:33.200 | You have your big 10-year goal maybe and a three-year goal,
00:14:35.280 | and you track it down to a meeting
00:14:37.080 | that you have once a week with your team.
00:14:38.840 | But in that meeting, I say out loud in that meeting,
00:14:42.880 | like last week I said I would do blank and I blank.
00:14:49.440 | Like last week I said I would call three investors.
00:14:54.000 | I called two.
00:14:55.280 | In other words, I have to fail.
00:14:56.720 | I have to publicly fail in front of my team
00:14:58.660 | if I don't deliver on the thing I said I was going to do.
00:15:01.880 | So by adding in that piece of the meeting
00:15:04.880 | through the book Traction,
00:15:05.860 | again, we operate on this kind of system,
00:15:07.360 | but that piece of the meeting is I said I would do this,
00:15:10.180 | I did this.
00:15:11.280 | That holds me accountable
00:15:12.280 | because although I will let myself down,
00:15:14.040 | I don't wanna let my team down.
00:15:15.920 | I don't wanna let them down.
00:15:16.780 | So the more I can obligate myself to things,
00:15:20.020 | the more likely the things get done.
00:15:21.820 | I mean, at the end of the day,
00:15:23.460 | you are the results of what you repeatedly do.
00:15:26.820 | I'm gonna say that again
00:15:27.660 | 'cause this is like one of the most profound statements.
00:15:29.100 | I didn't invent it.
00:15:29.980 | I've heard it said many different times
00:15:31.500 | in many different ways.
00:15:32.620 | You, well, I'll say you get the results
00:15:36.120 | of what you repeatedly do.
00:15:37.980 | You eat chips and nachos and Mai Tais every day,
00:15:40.380 | you're going to get overweight.
00:15:41.940 | You jog every single day, you're going to lose weight.
00:15:44.660 | You spend 15 minutes every day
00:15:47.060 | looking into your significant other's eyes,
00:15:49.280 | having a real conversation,
00:15:51.340 | you're going to have a better relationship.
00:15:53.440 | You avoid them, you're gonna have a bad one, right?
00:15:55.460 | So there are certain things in life
00:15:58.040 | that give us the result of life that we want.
00:16:01.100 | So all we need to do to be successful in anything,
00:16:04.760 | I really believe this, is like know where you wanna go,
00:16:07.580 | know what things are going to get you there.
00:16:10.820 | And when I say things, I mean the habits,
00:16:12.400 | the traits, the systems, whatever.
00:16:14.620 | So know where you wanna go,
00:16:16.300 | know the things that are gonna get you there,
00:16:18.800 | track those things and get accountability on it.
00:16:22.660 | If it's a group of guys getting accountability together,
00:16:24.660 | or guys meaning guys or girls,
00:16:26.300 | or is it hiring a performance coach?
00:16:28.800 | Whatever that is, get the accountability.
00:16:30.140 | So know where you're going,
00:16:31.740 | figure out what the steps are needed to get there,
00:16:33.860 | track it so you can be aware of you getting there
00:16:36.360 | or not getting there, and then get accountability
00:16:38.460 | so you can hack your self-discipline.
00:16:40.100 | You can accomplish anything, anything by doing that.
00:16:44.260 | - So you've got your group of accountability partners,
00:16:46.180 | you've got your spouse, you've got your team,
00:16:48.900 | you've got all these systems,
00:16:50.260 | but you also have a performance coach.
00:16:51.980 | Tell me about what that brings to the table.
00:16:55.180 | - It's like therapy.
00:16:56.280 | It's literally just like, it's like once a week,
00:16:59.180 | somebody asks me a bunch of hard questions
00:17:00.660 | and I have to answer them and think deeper.
00:17:02.500 | So just like the massage time is forcing me
00:17:05.340 | to have that unstructured, just open thinking time,
00:17:09.880 | the performance time is forced time
00:17:12.500 | to work on my business, not in my business,
00:17:15.380 | to work on my life and not in my life.
00:17:18.080 | So my coach, his name is Jason Derese,
00:17:20.060 | it's like trees with a D at the end, Derese.
00:17:23.540 | He's like, he'll ask me just very simple questions,
00:17:26.180 | like, so where are you not playing fully out right now?
00:17:29.420 | Or is that really what you want
00:17:30.700 | or is that just what you're expected to say, right?
00:17:33.260 | There's like very like therapy type questions,
00:17:35.860 | usually around my business,
00:17:37.140 | so we get into a lot more than just business,
00:17:38.700 | but it's just a time every week
00:17:41.460 | that I'm forced to look at my business like an outsider,
00:17:46.460 | to look at my life like an outsider
00:17:49.100 | and just say like, what can I do better?
00:17:52.340 | How can I improve this?
00:17:53.720 | Like a performance coach is something I believe
00:17:57.980 | every single human should have if you can afford it.
00:18:01.640 | And if you can't afford it,
00:18:03.100 | then get a group of people together and do the same thing,
00:18:05.780 | just do it for free with a group of people.
00:18:07.220 | You know, like it's not as powerful
00:18:08.620 | 'cause you're not paying somebody,
00:18:09.540 | so there's no really like bias for action on their part
00:18:12.380 | to actually hold you accountable,
00:18:13.520 | but if you can pay someone to ask those tough questions,
00:18:17.700 | how does that not pay off a hundredfold?
00:18:20.180 | Even if like one, like even if 10,
00:18:22.260 | even if only 10% of the calls I do with Jason are effective,
00:18:26.220 | the one out of 10 will completely transform my life, right?
00:18:32.080 | In fact, I left the BiggerPockets podcast after 10 years
00:18:35.700 | from it all started with a question he asked me.
00:18:38.240 | He just said, "It sounds like
00:18:39.080 | "you're getting kind of burned out.
00:18:39.900 | "Do you need to take a month off?
00:18:41.680 | "How's that sit with you?
00:18:42.740 | "Does that feel light or does that feel heavy?"
00:18:44.660 | And I'm like, month off sounds amazing.
00:18:47.600 | I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna take a month off.
00:18:50.100 | I had never taken time off the podcast.
00:18:52.180 | And that one question led to taking a month off,
00:18:54.540 | which then once I was like,
00:18:55.980 | had decided that it was okay to take a month off,
00:18:58.020 | I was like, wait, why don't I just take the whole thing off?
00:19:00.180 | Do I, why don't I just stop?
00:19:02.020 | Why don't I just focus on the other part of my business?
00:19:03.660 | So having that person who just dives into your psyche
00:19:07.660 | and asks you good questions always pays off.
00:19:11.500 | I believe it, always.
00:19:13.020 | - Where would you tell someone who believes you?
00:19:15.500 | They're like, great, I need one.
00:19:16.820 | Where do they go to find a performance coach?
00:19:19.220 | - It's tough, man.
00:19:20.100 | I mean, you can go to the big organizations
00:19:21.620 | like the Tony Robbins or whatever,
00:19:22.780 | and there's nothing wrong with that.
00:19:24.100 | I like my guy, I got it from a referral.
00:19:26.100 | Again, Jason Dries, I think it's Jason Dries Coaching.
00:19:29.540 | Like, he's got a bunch of people under him.
00:19:30.860 | Like, those are like the big ones.
00:19:32.940 | There's a company called Strategic Coach with Dan Sullivan.
00:19:35.380 | In fact, his name's actually, the reason I thought of it,
00:19:36.940 | his name's on the front of the traction book.
00:19:38.900 | He's a coach that helps people.
00:19:40.660 | I think just knowing that you need that,
00:19:43.900 | and then just talking to people and putting it out there,
00:19:46.340 | and just like hiring an employee.
00:19:47.900 | Let's go back to that previous conversation we had, right?
00:19:50.260 | If you just like, it's really easy
00:19:52.340 | to find a performance coach.
00:19:54.020 | It's really hard to find a good performance coach
00:19:56.700 | that's going to hold you accountable and such.
00:19:59.620 | Yeah, I always think someday it'd be fun
00:20:00.860 | to own a performance coaching company.
00:20:02.140 | I don't own one now, but it'd be kind of fun to do so
00:20:04.780 | because I believe so strongly in it.
00:20:07.020 | I don't know, do you have a recommendation?
00:20:08.060 | Let's fire it back at you.
00:20:09.360 | - I don't know if I have a recommendation
00:20:10.200 | of where to find someone, but I think,
00:20:12.620 | something different between an employee and a coach
00:20:15.760 | is that there are a lot of very good coaches.
00:20:18.140 | We talked about it, it's hard to find a good employee.
00:20:19.940 | There are a lot of very good coaches
00:20:21.340 | that might be very not good for you.
00:20:23.620 | And so I think when you hire employees,
00:20:25.620 | you're like, ah, is this employee bad?
00:20:28.000 | And you're like, yeah, they are, I gotta let them go.
00:20:31.540 | A lot of times, and this has happened to me,
00:20:34.300 | I had the highest recommended executive CEO coach
00:20:38.940 | when I was a founder.
00:20:39.860 | Every single person I knew loved this person.
00:20:42.060 | And as a friend, I love this person.
00:20:44.620 | But for me, they weren't actually the best coach.
00:20:46.860 | And it took me a long time to figure that out
00:20:48.740 | because I was so caught up in the fact
00:20:50.460 | that everyone said they were a great coach.
00:20:51.940 | Everyone said they're amazing.
00:20:53.260 | So something must be wrong with me
00:20:54.640 | if I'm not getting the most out of this.
00:20:56.560 | I think when it comes to coaching,
00:20:57.820 | when it comes to therapy,
00:20:59.260 | I think it's important to realize
00:21:00.820 | that there are people that are really good at their job
00:21:02.680 | that might not be really good working with you.
00:21:05.140 | And you might have to experiment.
00:21:07.260 | You might have to try a handful of coaches
00:21:09.060 | till you find the one that pushes you in the right way.
00:21:11.660 | And all of them might be good.
00:21:14.100 | So don't assume that because someone's good,
00:21:15.680 | they're good for you.
00:21:16.660 | That would be my advice.
00:21:17.940 | - That is phenomenal advice, right?
00:21:19.860 | Because, and there's also different types of coaches, right?
00:21:21.580 | 'Cause like, you might not need the guy
00:21:23.740 | who's gonna be like, you need to get to 10X your business,
00:21:25.740 | you know, grow, grow, grow.
00:21:26.940 | Like, you might need like, hey, you need to slow down
00:21:29.220 | and go be a father for a little bit.
00:21:30.980 | Like, you're not, you're like,
00:21:32.200 | and like different coaches are gonna push you
00:21:33.800 | in different ways.
00:21:34.640 | Then there's also like the coaches that are like,
00:21:36.360 | they're gonna teach you how to do a certain task.
00:21:39.560 | And then there's the coaches that are just gonna add
00:21:41.200 | more like a therapy.
00:21:42.040 | They're gonna do it wherever direction you wanna go.
00:21:44.240 | So yeah, and just trying out a bunch of them,
00:21:46.720 | trying to find what fits, I think is just,
00:21:48.980 | they're out there.
00:21:50.960 | And if you know that's what you need, just pursue it.
00:21:54.040 | Put it out there in the universe again,
00:21:55.120 | law of attraction, quote unquote,
00:21:56.920 | or just knowing what you want
00:21:58.440 | and then relentlessly pursuing it,
00:22:00.220 | you're gonna find somebody great.
00:22:02.160 | And then you're going to transform your life.
00:22:04.760 | I really believe that.
00:22:05.840 | - So I wanna get to family,
00:22:06.680 | but first, can you talk about the Starbucks strategy?
00:22:09.000 | We talked about a bunch of strategies.
00:22:10.620 | This is one that I've seen you talk about
00:22:12.520 | when it comes to big tasks.
00:22:14.220 | Let's hear about it.
00:22:16.520 | - Yeah, so, all right.
00:22:18.400 | So we're talking like,
00:22:20.240 | you've heard the analogy of the book writing.
00:22:22.120 | Have I mentioned that, the Starbucks?
00:22:23.240 | - Not in this podcast.
00:22:24.760 | - Not that one?
00:22:25.600 | - No, I have.
00:22:26.420 | - Oh, but you know what I'm talking about, right?
00:22:27.260 | Okay, I just wanna make sure
00:22:28.320 | that we're the same Starbucks strategy, all right.
00:22:30.240 | So, all right, so Starbucks strategy looks like this.
00:22:33.380 | It's essentially, I call it that
00:22:34.900 | just because this is how I've written my books.
00:22:36.820 | I've got, I've written like five books, right?
00:22:38.780 | The first book I wrote,
00:22:39.740 | it was called "The Book on Investing in Real Estate
00:22:41.460 | "with No and Low Money Down," longest title ever.
00:22:44.140 | And I wrote that like, I'm gonna write a book.
00:22:47.620 | So I sat down one day and I started writing some words
00:22:49.680 | and then I put it away for a few weeks.
00:22:50.940 | And I came back and I wrote a few more words
00:22:52.340 | and then I put it away for a few weeks.
00:22:54.120 | When I was inspired, I wrote some words.
00:22:58.460 | That book was hell to write.
00:23:00.480 | It took me over a year to write it.
00:23:02.280 | I hated every second of it.
00:23:03.560 | I did not enjoy writing it.
00:23:04.560 | It turned out fine.
00:23:05.400 | The book's fine, you should read it.
00:23:06.800 | If you have no money, 'cause it's a book for no money.
00:23:09.200 | Then the second time I was like,
00:23:10.160 | I don't wanna do that again,
00:23:11.140 | but I need to write this other book
00:23:12.400 | on rental property investing.
00:23:14.000 | So that time I said, I'm gonna pursue this differently.
00:23:16.040 | First of all, I'm gonna learn
00:23:17.120 | how other people write nonfiction books.
00:23:18.900 | And I studied a lot and so this whole strategy
00:23:20.880 | comes from a bunch of other people.
00:23:22.520 | I didn't make this up.
00:23:23.340 | I don't make up anything.
00:23:24.420 | I just regurgitate stuff, right?
00:23:26.380 | So I go to this, I go to Starbucks with my wife.
00:23:29.120 | Actually, she was gonna write a book at the same time.
00:23:31.000 | She was gonna write it on managing.
00:23:32.280 | I was gonna write it on just investing in rentals.
00:23:34.960 | And we sat down at a Starbucks and we said,
00:23:36.920 | we made a commitment to ourselves and said,
00:23:38.160 | we will not leave this Starbucks
00:23:40.120 | until our book is 100% perfectly outlined.
00:23:43.520 | It's really that quote, like the Abe Lincoln quote,
00:23:45.800 | again, who knows if he said it,
00:23:46.920 | but he said, if I had six hours to chop down a tree,
00:23:50.440 | I would spend the first four sharpening my ax.
00:23:53.940 | So what this whole strategy was was like,
00:23:56.180 | I'm gonna spend a focused, dedicated,
00:24:00.440 | nonstop period of time to sharpen the ax.
00:24:04.300 | So for me, I sat down, I spec'd out the entire book
00:24:06.900 | on note cards, 10 chapters, it was like 12 chapters,
00:24:10.660 | 12 sub chapters, flip every card over
00:24:13.060 | and it had an outline of what that sub chapter
00:24:15.060 | was gonna be about.
00:24:16.180 | So at the end of the day now, every day after that,
00:24:18.200 | I ended up with like 100 note cards,
00:24:19.980 | I think, actually, when I was done.
00:24:22.480 | Every day, I had a note card for 100 days straight
00:24:25.440 | with what chapter it's in, what the sub chapter is,
00:24:28.680 | and then three, four, five bullet points
00:24:30.720 | on what I had to write.
00:24:32.000 | Well, that's easy.
00:24:33.100 | Now I just gotta write 500 words to 1,000 words a day.
00:24:36.120 | And within exactly 100 days later,
00:24:38.680 | my wife and I both finished a book
00:24:40.560 | and we had two full books.
00:24:41.800 | Total length was almost 300,000 words between the two.
00:24:44.820 | And yeah, I've sold over a million copies
00:24:46.800 | of those books now.
00:24:47.640 | Like, all I'm getting at here is like define,
00:24:52.640 | like sharpen your axe, define what success
00:24:54.760 | is gonna look like, do the work up front
00:24:57.160 | and it makes everything else easier on the backend.
00:25:00.480 | - So you talked about family.
00:25:02.000 | I think that there are very few people in the world
00:25:04.440 | who would say one of my big goals
00:25:06.720 | is to do anything measured in billions, right?
00:25:09.240 | You mentioned $10 billion of real estate.
00:25:11.800 | Most of the people I know that really, really prioritize
00:25:15.640 | crazy, audacious business goals,
00:25:18.960 | don't often talk also about prioritizing
00:25:22.320 | being a good partner and being a good parent.
00:25:24.160 | And having listened to you talk a lot,
00:25:26.740 | it's something you do more than most.
00:25:29.600 | How do you find that balance?
00:25:31.440 | - I mean, so first of all, yeah, I got into real estate.
00:25:36.540 | I got into financial freedom,
00:25:38.080 | the pursuit of financial independence.
00:25:41.080 | And I know it's kind of a buzzword, right?
00:25:43.440 | But all I'm talking about is when I say financial
00:25:45.320 | independence, the ability to do what you want,
00:25:47.000 | where you want, when you want,
00:25:48.080 | how you want with whoever you want,
00:25:50.240 | whomever you want, I don't know.
00:25:51.560 | It's just that freedom, right?
00:25:53.020 | That comes with having money.
00:25:54.560 | It was never about getting rich,
00:25:56.420 | never about being a billionaire
00:25:57.560 | or anything like that, right?
00:25:58.500 | I wanted to pursue financial independence for one,
00:26:01.800 | two reasons, two reasons.
00:26:04.720 | And I think both of these will resonate with you, right?
00:26:06.240 | Number one, when I was growing up,
00:26:08.920 | like my dad worked really hard,
00:26:10.960 | but he wasn't there much 'cause he worked all the time.
00:26:13.200 | And so I rarely saw him.
00:26:14.680 | And I said, when I am a father someday,
00:26:18.280 | I want to be there for every ball game,
00:26:20.320 | every ballet recital, every field trip.
00:26:24.280 | I want to be there with my kids.
00:26:25.620 | I want to like be the best father I can possibly be.
00:26:28.820 | And I can't work 40, 50, 60 hours a week
00:26:32.800 | and have commuting to be able to do that.
00:26:34.520 | So I started with that, and that was the one thing.
00:26:36.080 | The second thing I said,
00:26:37.640 | I heard a quote once that said the world is a book
00:26:40.000 | and those who don't travel read just a page.
00:26:43.600 | Like the world is so amazing, right?
00:26:45.440 | So big, and there's so many things to see out there.
00:26:48.280 | And I wanted to see as much of it as I can
00:26:50.640 | while we're here on this earth.
00:26:52.600 | And I knew that again, being broke
00:26:54.760 | and working 40, 50 hours a week
00:26:56.080 | and getting my two weeks paid vacation every year,
00:26:58.360 | that wasn't gonna cut it.
00:26:59.260 | So combining those two things,
00:27:00.640 | that's why I pursued real estate and business
00:27:03.520 | and wealth in general.
00:27:05.640 | Now, fast forward a few years,
00:27:07.000 | and I find myself sometimes just like,
00:27:09.400 | I mean, I've achieved it.
00:27:10.420 | I could retire right now
00:27:11.640 | and just sit on a beach and do nothing,
00:27:12.840 | but I'd be bored out of my mind, right?
00:27:14.600 | I can only play Barbies and G.I. Joes
00:27:16.760 | for so many hours a day.
00:27:18.440 | So there's this balance that you have to have.
00:27:20.960 | And there is no, to quote Gary Keller in "The One Thing,"
00:27:24.080 | there is no such thing as work-life balance.
00:27:26.000 | It's work-life balancing.
00:27:28.020 | It's a constant influx, a flow
00:27:31.080 | that you sometimes have to go farther one way,
00:27:33.160 | and sometimes you have to go farther the other.
00:27:36.040 | And therefore, I am constantly re-evaluating
00:27:41.040 | where I am on that spectrum
00:27:45.640 | of too much work and maybe too much family, right?
00:27:48.800 | 'Cause as an entrepreneur, too,
00:27:49.740 | we get paid in the future for the work we do today.
00:27:51.880 | We don't get paid today for the work we do today, right?
00:27:53.560 | So we have to do the work now
00:27:55.120 | to get paid five years from now.
00:27:56.560 | We gotta plant the seeds today in order to harvest then,
00:28:00.220 | but I also need to make sure
00:28:01.600 | that my kids are being brought up right
00:28:03.520 | and that they're connected with me
00:28:04.920 | and that we have that solid relationship.
00:28:07.120 | So I guess that's why I talk about it a lot,
00:28:08.760 | because I'm very scared, is that the wrong word, maybe?
00:28:13.120 | I'm very concerned that at the end of my life,
00:28:17.100 | I will look back and say, why did I work so much?
00:28:21.880 | Like, why didn't I do the things
00:28:24.560 | that are most important in life?
00:28:26.760 | And the only way to know that is to continually evaluate it
00:28:29.280 | and to have the conversation with people.
00:28:31.040 | So I love when this topic comes up
00:28:33.680 | because it forces me to introspectively look at my life
00:28:36.840 | and say, how am I doing right now?
00:28:38.840 | Like, can I do better?
00:28:41.300 | Can I get more balance?
00:28:42.440 | What about you?
00:28:43.480 | - So it's interesting.
00:28:44.780 | I used to be someone,
00:28:46.440 | well, I still am someone who really loves productivity,
00:28:49.360 | like inbox zero, kind of everything,
00:28:51.220 | but one thing that I recently picked up,
00:28:53.520 | so we have two daughters, two and three months,
00:28:57.320 | so still, you know, the deal.
00:28:59.360 | - You're in it, you're in it.
00:29:02.600 | - I always wanted to like get to inbox zero,
00:29:04.700 | but I've lately still prioritized, right?
00:29:08.400 | When I'm working, I'm working in the most efficient manner,
00:29:11.420 | but when I get to the end of the day,
00:29:13.240 | and it's actually nice
00:29:14.640 | that sometimes kids just force this, right?
00:29:16.580 | Like we have an au pair, she's done at 5.30,
00:29:18.540 | like there's no real option.
00:29:20.520 | Like you gotta be there at 5.30.
00:29:22.760 | I just kinda like let it drop.
00:29:24.900 | And I think I've spent so much time in my life
00:29:28.280 | feeling like, gosh, everything I do today is for the future.
00:29:31.020 | I need to get it all done, I need to get all done.
00:29:32.920 | And then the next morning, I'm like,
00:29:34.680 | it didn't really matter
00:29:35.640 | that I got everything done before I went to bed.
00:29:37.880 | Now, there are times, you know, Tuesday night,
00:29:40.560 | this show comes out on Wednesday mornings,
00:29:42.800 | or maybe this bonus episode on a Friday,
00:29:44.640 | like there are times where it's like,
00:29:45.680 | no, I do have to stay up
00:29:46.640 | 'cause this thing comes out this time.
00:29:48.900 | But for the most part, there are a lot of things
00:29:50.760 | that you feel a lot of pressure to do.
00:29:53.160 | And I found that the more I've built the muscle
00:29:55.760 | of getting comfortable with not doing some things,
00:29:59.200 | whether it's a task at hand,
00:30:01.120 | or it's just saying no to a meeting,
00:30:03.200 | the more you get comfortable with it,
00:30:05.240 | the more, one, it's easier,
00:30:07.400 | and two, you realize it doesn't matter.
00:30:09.820 | So I remember I got this email from a guy named James Bashar,
00:30:13.560 | who has a podcast called "Below the Line."
00:30:15.600 | And I said, we'd connected in the past,
00:30:17.720 | and it'd been a few years.
00:30:18.560 | I reached back out to him, and he said,
00:30:20.960 | you know what, I don't really wanna do meetings
00:30:22.400 | 'cause I'm trying to prioritize other things in my life,
00:30:24.760 | but I'm really down with asynchronous communication.
00:30:27.440 | So if you want, you could go and use a tool like Loom,
00:30:31.280 | and you could record a conversation you wanna have,
00:30:33.480 | part of it, and then I'd be glad to get back to you.
00:30:36.400 | And I was like, oh, wow.
00:30:37.640 | So one, it really raised the bar.
00:30:39.720 | I'm not gonna go record a video to talk to him
00:30:41.980 | to just shoot the breeze.
00:30:43.160 | So he's basically filtering for,
00:30:45.460 | if you just wanna have a BS conversation and talk,
00:30:47.920 | that's gone.
00:30:49.480 | And at the time, I wanted to catch up with him
00:30:51.480 | 'cause I was trying to start a podcast,
00:30:52.680 | but I didn't really have my questions formulated,
00:30:54.640 | and it actually forced me to wait
00:30:56.260 | and ask when the time was right.
00:30:58.120 | And then I started using that,
00:30:59.680 | and boy, it makes everything so much more efficient,
00:31:02.680 | and it's just helped me prioritize.
00:31:04.680 | So if someone says, hey, you've started companies,
00:31:06.960 | can you help me figure out how to start a company
00:31:09.640 | in the space that you did?
00:31:10.800 | I say, great.
00:31:11.620 | If you wanna go to Loom,
00:31:12.600 | and you wanna record some specific questions
00:31:14.520 | or write 'em out in an email,
00:31:15.640 | I'm happy to answer those questions.
00:31:17.280 | And if it eventually makes sense for us to chat,
00:31:19.360 | I'm happy to, but there's a lot going on right now,
00:31:21.800 | and I just have to let some things drop,
00:31:23.840 | and it's nothing personal.
00:31:25.640 | And learning to do that and getting comfortable doing that
00:31:28.860 | has made it so much more comfortable to go and say,
00:31:33.380 | you know what, this week, our au pair is out of town.
00:31:36.180 | She's in Boston, New York, Chicago, having a blast,
00:31:39.220 | and that means there's no childcare and two kids is a lot.
00:31:42.500 | And so other than this interview,
00:31:44.740 | I basically have no meetings all week.
00:31:47.180 | And I'm okay with that, and I'm letting things drop
00:31:49.980 | because I've gotten comfortable with that skill.
00:31:52.660 | That's been the biggest thing for me
00:31:53.940 | is that comfort with doing something
00:31:56.420 | that in your grindy kind of '20s, early '30s time of life
00:32:00.560 | just felt unfathomable.
00:32:01.900 | It's like, I gotta get it done.
00:32:04.160 | Letting it go is very cathartic.
00:32:07.580 | - You know, that reminds me, and I love how you say like,
00:32:09.600 | you know, as soon as you gotta drop some stuff, right?
00:32:11.820 | In the book, "The One Thing," I'll bring it up again,
00:32:13.580 | Gary Keller, Jay Papasan, they have the book, "The One Thing,"
00:32:16.400 | and they tell the story or the metaphor in there
00:32:18.900 | that says that life is like juggling a bunch of balls, right?
00:32:21.540 | You're juggling family, health, your work, your career,
00:32:25.740 | your financial life, you're balancing all those things.
00:32:28.060 | And he says, some of those balls are rubber
00:32:31.140 | and some of them are glass, right?
00:32:33.620 | When you drop something at work, it'll bounce right back.
00:32:36.540 | Like typically nothing's really that bad,
00:32:38.900 | but there are glass balls in our life, right?
00:32:42.460 | Our relationship with our spouse or significant other
00:32:45.420 | is a glass ball, and you can only drop that so many times
00:32:48.260 | before it shatters.
00:32:49.500 | And so there's this constant, yeah,
00:32:51.700 | I'm always thinking a lot of my life
00:32:54.260 | is going to get dropped.
00:32:55.220 | A lot of things are gonna get dropped.
00:32:56.680 | Let's make sure we drop the right things.
00:32:58.820 | And that, at the end of my life,
00:33:00.220 | that would be a great reputation to have
00:33:03.180 | and a great dying thought is I drop the right balls
00:33:07.420 | throughout my life.
00:33:08.460 | - And it's funny 'cause I respected the email I got
00:33:11.820 | from James so much.
00:33:13.580 | You know, you think you have this email that's like,
00:33:16.060 | you know, I've had a handful of people
00:33:17.520 | that I would put in the category of like important people.
00:33:19.780 | Their emails are like,
00:33:20.620 | hey, I'm not checking email this summer.
00:33:23.000 | And I'm like, damn, that person's like,
00:33:25.740 | they've got it figured out.
00:33:26.900 | I didn't write back and be like, that person's an asshole.
00:33:29.100 | You know, like that, my reaction was like,
00:33:30.980 | this person is prioritizing their life,
00:33:33.340 | in many cases, better than me.
00:33:35.100 | And so I would just encourage people to realize
00:33:36.980 | that most of people's reaction to your dropping the ball
00:33:40.980 | in a polite way might actually be kind of jealousy and envy
00:33:45.500 | more than, you know, frustration.
00:33:47.600 | - And I would even, to push it to another level,
00:33:50.520 | if I could real quick, like another reason to do that
00:33:53.160 | by adding these bounds in your life,
00:33:55.080 | like things like, for example,
00:33:56.800 | like people might be surprised to hear this,
00:33:58.320 | but like I, I mean, I'm building a billion dollar brand.
00:34:00.920 | I have a billion dollars of real estate.
00:34:01.920 | We'll buy 10 billion.
00:34:03.280 | That should make my company about a billion in profit
00:34:05.560 | over the next five to 10 years.
00:34:07.040 | Like that's, it's a legit like billion dollar
00:34:09.680 | profit business.
00:34:10.880 | And I work at most five hours a week.
00:34:13.560 | Like that's it.
00:34:14.400 | Like I don't work a lot of hours at this.
00:34:15.960 | I'm going to launch a new business next year
00:34:17.740 | that I think is going to be awesome.
00:34:19.060 | And I'm from day one, I have the requirement.
00:34:22.420 | I do not work more than five hours a week at this.
00:34:25.020 | And the cool thing is, is by having those boundaries,
00:34:28.940 | I am forced to build a business that I am not within.
00:34:32.580 | Like I am building it from the outside looking in.
00:34:35.220 | I'm not building it from the inside up.
00:34:37.500 | I'm not doing every single role.
00:34:38.740 | I'm saying, no, that's, that's the rules of this,
00:34:41.780 | of this business, of this game.
00:34:44.180 | I'm going to play within the rules.
00:34:45.680 | And, and so many people don't realize that you get to,
00:34:47.920 | you get to make whatever rules you want.
00:34:49.680 | This is your game.
00:34:50.640 | Like your business is your game.
00:34:51.800 | Make it however you want.
00:34:52.840 | So establish rules.
00:34:53.680 | Like I only work this much.
00:34:55.120 | I don't work Fridays.
00:34:56.240 | I take Wednesday and Thursday and Friday off.
00:34:57.920 | Like who cares, right?
00:34:58.920 | And then you will, you will find a way to be successful.
00:35:03.160 | Cause if you're listening to this podcast
00:35:04.760 | an hour in or whatever we're in, like you're,
00:35:06.840 | you're a legit person.
00:35:08.200 | You're going to find a way to be massively successful
00:35:10.440 | within the bounds of, within the rules that you establish.
00:35:13.160 | So establish them.
00:35:14.360 | Don't just play what's given to you.
00:35:16.000 | Define what you want to do, what sounds amazing.
00:35:19.120 | And then just go after that.
00:35:20.560 | - If you haven't read the book from Strength to Strength
00:35:22.840 | from Arthur Brooks, I think you should.
00:35:24.600 | I think you'd enjoy it.
00:35:25.720 | I had him on the podcast and it's about
00:35:28.880 | finding a new form of happiness as you transition
00:35:31.920 | from a style of intelligence and work in your early life
00:35:35.520 | that, that isn't as compatible in the second half of life.
00:35:38.280 | And second half is not like seventies.
00:35:40.280 | It's like, you know, late thirties, forties kind of age.
00:35:42.880 | We were like, I'm finding a new way to work
00:35:44.800 | that is more compatible with long-term happiness.
00:35:47.600 | So that's one book I shared.
00:35:50.200 | You shared a lot of books.
00:35:51.520 | I want to jump to, to just get, are there other books?
00:35:54.720 | Where do you find them?
00:35:55.560 | You seem to have them and collected them.
00:35:57.140 | And you know, they've had a huge impact on you.
00:35:59.520 | Where are you finding them all?
00:36:00.840 | And do you publish a list of them?
00:36:02.680 | So people who want more of your recommendations
00:36:04.760 | can find them?
00:36:05.600 | - I do read a lot.
00:36:06.420 | I read, I read about a book a week on average,
00:36:09.080 | sometimes two, sometimes half, depends on how busy I am.
00:36:12.000 | But I probably average 50 to a hundred books a year,
00:36:14.560 | pretty much every year.
00:36:15.400 | So I read and I buy, I have a rule with books.
00:36:17.420 | If I think about buying a book,
00:36:19.220 | if even the hint of an idea of like,
00:36:21.120 | oh, that might be a good book, I always buy it.
00:36:23.240 | I think books are the best investment
00:36:24.960 | in the entire universe.
00:36:26.360 | I don't think anything comes close
00:36:28.400 | to the monetary investment of a book.
00:36:30.160 | But I don't have a list anywhere per se.
00:36:34.200 | I do have an email, like I have a text message newsletter.
00:36:36.760 | Everyone does like newsletters.
00:36:37.860 | And I was like, how can I be different?
00:36:39.280 | So I have a text message newsletter.
00:36:40.620 | Every Wednesday I send out a text
00:36:42.960 | that has like a book that I'm reading
00:36:45.040 | and some little piece of advice that I got, et cetera.
00:36:47.760 | So that's just beardybrandon.com as I put that out there.
00:36:51.220 | There's no like sales, I'm not selling anything there.
00:36:53.640 | It's just like, I read a lot.
00:36:55.440 | So I'm always like, hey, here's what I'm reading right now.
00:36:57.120 | And here's a cool point from the book that they made.
00:37:00.100 | So yeah, I read a lot.
00:37:02.860 | I mean, I give you 5 million recommendations.
00:37:05.960 | And I remember a lot of what I read as well
00:37:07.600 | because I always assume I'm gonna have to teach it.
00:37:09.160 | You ever seen those studies?
00:37:10.000 | Like, you remember whatever, 10% of what you hear
00:37:14.000 | and 20% of what you read, blah, blah, blah.
00:37:16.300 | The studies have shown that the number one best way
00:37:19.540 | to remember something is not to teach it per se.
00:37:24.000 | I've heard that said before,
00:37:24.900 | but it's actually a little more nuanced than that.
00:37:26.640 | It's to read or I should say to learn
00:37:30.180 | as if you had to teach it.
00:37:32.580 | So every time I read a book,
00:37:33.980 | I assume I'm going to have to teach this somebody later,
00:37:36.580 | even it's my own spouse.
00:37:38.060 | So when you read from that perspective,
00:37:40.360 | your mind categorizes it in like,
00:37:43.160 | that's a weird way of saying that,
00:37:44.080 | categorizes it, I don't know, whatever,
00:37:46.160 | files it away in a different part of the brain
00:37:49.180 | that's easier to recall later on.
00:37:51.040 | And so I heard this hack, I don't know, 20 years ago,
00:37:53.000 | but it's made such an impact on my life
00:37:54.240 | as I read everything now with a pen
00:37:56.240 | and I assume I'm gonna have to teach it later,
00:37:58.080 | even though I might not.
00:37:58.920 | And then I remember it's all up here, not all of it,
00:38:00.840 | but a lot of it's up there.
00:38:01.880 | So I don't know if that answers your question.
00:38:03.520 | Do you want me to just give you a,
00:38:04.440 | I'll give you an hour long list of good books to read.
00:38:06.200 | - No, no, no, this is great.
00:38:07.040 | Do you use that pen to take notes,
00:38:08.640 | use physical books, not eBooks?
00:38:10.840 | What's the process?
00:38:11.760 | - I do.
00:38:13.000 | Yeah, I like, I mean, Audible's great.
00:38:14.680 | If I'm working out, I'm usually listening to an audio book,
00:38:16.920 | but usually the work,
00:38:17.760 | like usually audio is more for podcasts
00:38:19.640 | 'cause you can't read a podcast very easily.
00:38:22.600 | And I try to only do physical books.
00:38:25.760 | Kindle, I'll do fiction books
00:38:27.200 | 'cause I'm not underlining in whatever.
00:38:28.980 | So Kindle's for fiction, physical for nonfiction.
00:38:32.920 | And then it's really just about like people,
00:38:34.960 | I actually get asked all the time,
00:38:36.080 | "How do you read so many books?"
00:38:37.480 | And I'm like, I literally just read
00:38:38.800 | for like 10 minutes a day.
00:38:40.040 | It's not much.
00:38:41.240 | But I also read whenever I have a quick break,
00:38:45.200 | I try to read instead of pull up my phone and scroll.
00:38:47.960 | Like as soon as that pull to grab my phone,
00:38:49.680 | and I'm not great at this at all.
00:38:50.880 | I'll say I'm terrible at this,
00:38:51.960 | but I try whenever that pull to my phone,
00:38:54.560 | like I need that dopamine hit,
00:38:56.360 | I'll look around and if there's a book near me,
00:38:58.440 | I'll grab that instead or I'll try to grab that instead.
00:39:01.200 | And I'll just read a couple pages.
00:39:02.800 | My two, three, four pages, I'll put it down.
00:39:04.440 | I'm typically in the middle of 20 to 30 books
00:39:06.920 | at any given time, which is completely nuts, but.
00:39:10.200 | - That sounds like a topic for another day.
00:39:13.260 | - That is, yeah, yeah.
00:39:14.880 | - The last big thing I want to ask about
00:39:17.600 | that I think few people talk about
00:39:20.080 | as much as I've heard you talk about it is,
00:39:22.480 | you talked about the purpose of all this
00:39:24.160 | isn't just to have a boatload of money.
00:39:25.620 | It's not just to be a billionaire and all that.
00:39:28.000 | And you've talked a lot about philanthropy.
00:39:30.080 | So, and how that's become a more,
00:39:32.640 | a bigger focus in your life.
00:39:34.760 | And I think beyond just saying why it's important,
00:39:37.800 | you've thought about ways to infuse it
00:39:39.680 | into your future business, your future endeavors.
00:39:42.680 | Talk a bit about why it's important,
00:39:44.680 | but also how you're trying to bring it into your business
00:39:47.840 | that maybe is different than the way
00:39:49.400 | most people think about philanthropy.
00:39:51.400 | - Few ways that I'm looking at it right now.
00:39:52.600 | First of all, like I, all right, everyone believes this,
00:39:56.560 | but I really like internalize it.
00:39:58.440 | Is that like, nobody gets out alive.
00:40:00.720 | Like we all die and it doesn't make sense
00:40:03.160 | to be the richest guy in the graveyard.
00:40:04.520 | Like I don't care about legacy.
00:40:06.400 | I don't care about my kids being rich.
00:40:08.240 | Like I don't plan to actually give my kids anything.
00:40:10.560 | Maybe they'll get a little bit,
00:40:11.480 | maybe they'll get a property or two, whatever.
00:40:12.960 | - Oh, they get that college savings property.
00:40:15.560 | - Yeah, they get the college thing, yeah.
00:40:17.000 | And what's great about that too, by the way,
00:40:18.520 | just go way back to the last episode that we did together,
00:40:21.320 | but that property, like I don't care
00:40:23.520 | if Rosie takes that one property
00:40:25.120 | and goes to college with it, or she starts a business.
00:40:27.040 | I actually hope she'll just start a business with it
00:40:29.240 | or invest it in something.
00:40:30.400 | But anyway, I don't need my kid to be rich because A,
00:40:34.800 | like you can't grow up in the Turner,
00:40:36.560 | the Brandon Turner household
00:40:37.960 | and not have all the skills you need to be successful,
00:40:40.960 | first of all, 'cause like I'm going to train her.
00:40:43.000 | I train him every day.
00:40:43.880 | I'm always talking about money and finances
00:40:45.880 | and entrepreneurship and Rosie has bake sales
00:40:48.520 | and Wilder will, you know, when he's a little older.
00:40:51.320 | So either A, if they're not wealthy by the time
00:40:54.360 | they're in their mid 20s, then they don't,
00:40:56.920 | then they, there is some problem
00:41:00.200 | that they don't deserve the money anyway, right?
00:41:02.160 | Like my kids will either not need the money
00:41:05.040 | 'cause they'll be so successful anyway,
00:41:06.640 | or they don't deserve the money
00:41:07.680 | because they can't handle it.
00:41:08.800 | So anyway, that's why I'm not planning to give my kids money.
00:41:11.200 | So in other words, what do I do with it then?
00:41:13.720 | I mean, wealth is kind of a game in some ways.
00:41:15.760 | Like I don't have to earn more money and get wealthier,
00:41:17.840 | but it's kind of a fun, it's a fun challenge.
00:41:20.040 | Like, can I give away a billion dollars?
00:41:22.400 | Like I would have laughed at that 10 years ago
00:41:24.280 | and now I'm like, well, shoot.
00:41:25.640 | Yeah, I could definitely give away a billion dollars.
00:41:28.640 | Plus happiness is largely derived for most people
00:41:32.560 | by giving away money.
00:41:34.360 | And not just like throwing it to some random charity,
00:41:36.280 | but by doing something with it.
00:41:37.720 | Like it's one thing to make money.
00:41:39.400 | It's another thing to make money matter.
00:41:41.840 | So I wanna spend a lot of my time making money
00:41:44.520 | 'cause I'm good at it.
00:41:45.680 | I'm not just gonna like give away all my money right now
00:41:47.320 | and go live under a bridge.
00:41:48.800 | Like I have been gifted with this ability
00:41:50.880 | to generate mass amounts of money.
00:41:52.760 | So I'm gonna use that to its fullest ability.
00:41:55.080 | And then I'm gonna make that money count.
00:41:56.720 | I'm gonna make it matter through business.
00:41:58.720 | So a couple of ways we do that.
00:42:00.480 | Number one, there's like the obvious,
00:42:02.480 | like we try to take good care of our tenants
00:42:04.360 | and be good people and all that.
00:42:05.520 | That's not what I'm talking about.
00:42:07.080 | I wanna start, we're gonna start,
00:42:08.400 | actually we're gonna launch it hopefully
00:42:09.360 | in the next couple of months.
00:42:10.200 | We're gonna raise capital for big apartment complexes.
00:42:13.560 | And then we're going to take all the profit from that
00:42:16.640 | and just donate it.
00:42:17.680 | So for example, let me give you a real simple.
00:42:20.360 | We buy a $100 million building right now.
00:42:22.400 | It's pretty normal by let's say $100 million building.
00:42:24.760 | We have to raise 20 or $30 million from investors like you.
00:42:28.560 | You give the money, we will buy the property.
00:42:30.680 | At the end of the deal, we sell it for $150 million.
00:42:33.360 | Very normal, very just 3%, 4% per year
00:42:36.720 | over the course of 10 years it gets there.
00:42:38.680 | And then at the end of the deal, everyone gets their money.
00:42:40.560 | We divide up all, everyone gets their piece of the pie
00:42:43.120 | and everyone is happy.
00:42:44.320 | But what I wanna do is I wanna raise all that money.
00:42:46.680 | And then at the end of the deal,
00:42:47.640 | when we sell the property two, three, four, five years later
00:42:50.480 | you get your investment back,
00:42:52.000 | but all the profit, that $50 million goes to charity.
00:42:56.440 | And I'm like, I could do like one of those a year
00:42:58.240 | and be like the biggest charity in the country.
00:42:59.840 | Like it's stupid how good real estate
00:43:02.560 | and especially my division of real estate,
00:43:04.480 | syndication and multifamily,
00:43:06.680 | it's stupid how much profit we can create out of thin air
00:43:11.680 | and with that level of assuredness, of that little surety.
00:43:16.640 | And so if I can just take like one out of every 10 deals
00:43:19.240 | I do and just donate it to good,
00:43:22.920 | that makes everyone feel good.
00:43:23.920 | And then the LPs, even like you,
00:43:25.440 | if you were investing in that,
00:43:26.680 | not only do you get to feel good,
00:43:28.160 | not only do you get your money back,
00:43:29.520 | so you're not even donating it,
00:43:30.680 | you're just lending the money for a little while basically.
00:43:33.160 | You also get a big tax write-off at the end.
00:43:34.880 | And so it's like a win, win, win across the board.
00:43:36.600 | Everyone feels good, everybody wins.
00:43:38.440 | We're saving lives, we're stopping human trafficking,
00:43:40.480 | we're feeding kids, it's gonna be a good life.
00:43:42.600 | So I'm fired up about that right now.
00:43:45.680 | - I love it.
00:43:46.520 | I think that's a great way to wrap this conversation.
00:43:49.600 | But there is one thing that I like to ask everyone
00:43:51.840 | before we go and it's to pick a place.
00:43:54.360 | And because I'm heading to Maui,
00:43:55.760 | I'm gonna just default you to pick Maui.
00:43:58.040 | People that are coming to Maui,
00:44:00.720 | what should they be doing, eating, drinking
00:44:03.880 | to have a good trip?
00:44:05.240 | - Oh, dude, okay.
00:44:06.080 | So first of all, if you're an alcoholic,
00:44:09.200 | no, if you drink alcohol, there is a drink at the,
00:44:12.600 | Monkey Pod is my favorite restaurant on the Island.
00:44:14.800 | Monkey Pod has a drink, it's called the Mai Tai.
00:44:17.000 | It's not like a normal Mai Tai if you've had one.
00:44:18.520 | Just get the Monkey Pod Mai Tai, it's phenomenal.
00:44:21.080 | Anything at Monkey Pod is phenomenal.
00:44:22.960 | Anything there is amazing.
00:44:24.200 | The side men, the pizza, pork and pineapple,
00:44:26.480 | the burger, one of the best ever.
00:44:27.800 | All right, so Monkey Pod, amazing.
00:44:29.520 | Maui Brewing Company, it's the one over
00:44:31.240 | where you're gonna be staying.
00:44:32.080 | There's also one by my house down here.
00:44:33.840 | Monkey, Maui Brew is amazing.
00:44:36.960 | Moku Roots, if you're vegan, awesome vegan restaurant.
00:44:39.480 | I'm not vegan, but it's phenomenal,
00:44:40.960 | just for those vegan people.
00:44:43.040 | So that's the food.
00:44:43.880 | I mean, there's a lot of good food on Maui,
00:44:45.440 | but Tin Roof up in Kahului.
00:44:47.640 | Mm, the Mochiko Chicken Sandwich, ah!
00:44:50.360 | You just can't imagine better food than that.
00:44:51.560 | It's so good.
00:44:52.400 | And then, I mean, there's beaches everywhere.
00:44:56.600 | Make sure you hit Black Rock.
00:44:57.760 | Go jump off Cliff Dive off Black Rock,
00:44:59.680 | which is right over by the Ritz and the Sheraton
00:45:02.760 | and that whole kind of area there.
00:45:04.440 | Mm, and then come down to Wailea,
00:45:07.920 | which is like a 40-minute drive from the other side
00:45:10.640 | of the Island where, like Kanapali.
00:45:12.800 | But there's some lava fields down here.
00:45:14.640 | You can drive through the lava fields.
00:45:15.840 | Go to Big Beach.
00:45:17.200 | If you wanna see a bunch of naked men, go to Little Beach.
00:45:19.560 | It's a great spot.
00:45:20.640 | And then, oh man, it's so good.
00:45:24.440 | Anyway, man, I can give you a thousand recommendations.
00:45:27.000 | - Any of the activities that are worth doing are--
00:45:29.840 | - Road to Hana, for sure Road to Hana.
00:45:31.560 | Everyone does the Road to Hana.
00:45:32.400 | Have you ever done the Road to Hana?
00:45:33.400 | Have you been to Maui? - I've never been to Maui.
00:45:35.280 | The Road to Hana seems like a great thing to do
00:45:38.640 | on a trip when you're not in tow
00:45:40.880 | with a three-month-old and a two-year-old.
00:45:42.280 | - Yes.
00:45:43.120 | Yes, probably.
00:45:45.800 | You do get out a lot.
00:45:46.720 | So here's the Road to Hana.
00:45:47.800 | It's the best analogy for life, too.
00:45:50.000 | Road to Hana, I did it once with some friends.
00:45:52.680 | We all left at the same time.
00:45:54.120 | There's no cell phone coverage on the Road to Hana.
00:45:56.280 | So we leave and we stop at the first beach.
00:45:59.080 | And we get out there and we look at like 50 turtles
00:46:00.840 | that are on the beach, just sunbathing these turtles,
00:46:02.800 | watching these world-class surfers
00:46:04.560 | just ripping on these surf waves, having a great time.
00:46:07.160 | Sat down, watched this for a little bit,
00:46:09.040 | got back in the car, started driving.
00:46:11.760 | To get to Hana, it takes us typically four to six hours.
00:46:15.120 | An hour in, like, you know, we leave the beach.
00:46:17.600 | We're just starting.
00:46:18.440 | We're not even a mile on this road.
00:46:20.680 | And I get a call from my friends
00:46:22.320 | and they've got cell phone reception.
00:46:23.560 | I hadn't even lost it yet.
00:46:24.600 | And they said, "Okay, we're in Hana, now what?"
00:46:26.400 | And I was like, "Oh no, there's nothing in Hana.
00:46:30.120 | "You missed the point."
00:46:31.720 | Like, it's not about the destination.
00:46:34.200 | It's about the journey.
00:46:35.800 | So the Road to Hana is an amazing just picture of life
00:46:39.200 | in that there's nothing.
00:46:40.200 | Now, maybe there's something at the end of life.
00:46:41.400 | I had to believe there is.
00:46:42.240 | Like, I'm a Christian guy, so I think there is.
00:46:43.800 | But the point is, like, the point of life
00:46:46.120 | is not just to get to the end.
00:46:47.320 | It's to enjoy it along the way.
00:46:48.440 | So you could do Road to Hana with some little ones.
00:46:50.960 | You stop every, like, 20 minutes to pull over
00:46:53.200 | and, like, see amazing waterfalls and turtles and stuff.
00:46:56.200 | So Road to Hana is beautiful and awesome.
00:46:58.960 | But I would understand if you don't wanna take a baby on it.
00:47:01.880 | It's probably not a bad call.
00:47:03.880 | - All right, well, I'm even more excited about Maui,
00:47:05.920 | especially for the eats.
00:47:07.320 | - Oh, I forgot about the best thing.
00:47:08.560 | I forgot about the best thing in all of Maui.
00:47:11.000 | You take your family, you put 'em in the car,
00:47:12.680 | you drive over to Kihei, which is the area I live in.
00:47:15.680 | You come up here to my road and you pull in my driveway,
00:47:18.120 | and then we hang out on my front lanai.
00:47:19.640 | It's called the lanai.
00:47:20.520 | It's like a front porch.
00:47:21.360 | The kids swim in my pool, and you and I sit there
00:47:23.520 | and chat business for a couple hours.
00:47:24.840 | That is the best thing you can do in Maui.
00:47:26.600 | So I'm officially inviting you here publicly
00:47:29.080 | to come hang out if you can.
00:47:29.920 | - I will see you in a couple weeks.
00:47:30.760 | - It's a good time.
00:47:31.960 | - This has been fantastic.
00:47:33.440 | Where can everyone listening stay on top
00:47:35.400 | of everything you're doing, working, building,
00:47:37.240 | this $10 billion of real estate you wanna buy one day?
00:47:40.240 | How do they stay on top?
00:47:41.760 | - Yeah, so the text message list is a good one.
00:47:43.760 | Just Beardy, B-E-A-R-D-Y, Beard with a Y.
00:47:47.040 | Beardybrandon.com is the text message thing.
00:47:49.200 | And if anybody's interested in the real estate
00:47:50.640 | side of stuff, like investing with me and all that,
00:47:53.760 | odcfund, odcfund.com.
00:47:58.560 | And if you go to odcfund.com/tax,
00:48:02.680 | I've got a e-book on taxes there,
00:48:04.800 | just so it's a short read on how do people
00:48:06.760 | save money on taxes, especially if you're wealthy?
00:48:09.160 | How does Donald Trump pay no taxes?
00:48:10.880 | Anyway, it's just a random thing I just put together
00:48:12.680 | a few weeks ago.
00:48:13.720 | That's where it's at.
00:48:14.720 | - Brandon, thank you so much for this extended conversation.
00:48:18.640 | - Phenomenal, thanks for having me.