JF2076120Joshua20Sheats
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00:00:14.200 | The quicker you can get to a place of financial stability and the lower your goals are,
00:00:19.000 | the easier it is to get there with less risk.
00:00:21.000 | So many people would be well served by taking a look at their expenses.
00:00:25.000 | Many people would be well served by getting to that number first
00:00:28.000 | and then perhaps clearing all the leverage on their portfolio.
00:00:30.500 | Best ever listeners, before we get into today's episode,
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00:01:38.000 | Best ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show.
00:01:42.500 | I'm Joe Fairless. This is a show where, well, we cut out the fluff
00:01:46.000 | and we only talk about the best advice that moves your real estate investing business forward.
00:01:51.000 | This is also the world's longest running daily real estate podcast.
00:01:54.500 | I'm Barbara Corcoran from Shark Tank, Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad, and a whole bunch of others.
00:01:59.000 | Today we're going to be talking about a very specific skill because,
00:02:03.500 | oh, by the way, happy Sunday, best ever listeners.
00:02:06.000 | Today is Sunday, so we're doing a special segment called Skill Set Sunday
00:02:10.000 | where you're going to come away with a specific skill.
00:02:13.500 | And, well, you're going to be able to apply this skill towards your investing career and ventures.
00:02:19.500 | Today to walk us through this skill, we've got Joshua Sheets.
00:02:23.000 | How are you doing, Joshua?
00:02:24.000 | Very well, sir. Thank you for having me on.
00:02:26.000 | Yeah, nice to have you on the show, my friend.
00:02:28.000 | And the skill that we're going to talk about, well, you know what?
00:02:30.500 | I'm going to talk a little bit about his background first, then we'll talk about the skill.
00:02:34.000 | Joshua is the host of Radical Personal Finance Podcast,
00:02:38.500 | which teaches how to achieve financial freedom in 10 years or less.
00:02:42.000 | He's a financial planner that mixes creative approaches,
00:02:45.000 | deep dive financial planning techniques, and business strategy.
00:02:48.000 | He's based in sunny West Palm Beach, Florida,
00:02:51.500 | and you can say hi to him at his website, RadicalPersonalFinance.com.
00:02:56.500 | And what we're going to come away with today is a broad understanding
00:03:00.500 | of how personal finance and professional financial techniques are interrelated
00:03:07.000 | and why you need both.
00:03:09.500 | With that being said, Joshua, you want to give the best ever listeners
00:03:12.000 | a little bit more about your background and what you're focused on?
00:03:15.500 | Absolutely. I come from a long background of being interested in personal finance
00:03:19.000 | and kind of the wealth building world.
00:03:21.500 | And then I spent six years working as a professional financial planner.
00:03:25.000 | I'm a certified financial planner, chartered life underwriter,
00:03:27.500 | I have a master's degree in financial planning, etc.
00:03:30.000 | So I dug deep into the world of technical financial planning
00:03:33.000 | and out of frustration for the fact that people usually disconnect these worlds,
00:03:39.500 | the world of technical professional financial planning techniques
00:03:43.000 | and the world of what I call personal finance,
00:03:45.000 | which real estate would be a component of the world of personal finance.
00:03:48.000 | People often disconnect them, and I look at them coming from both backgrounds
00:03:51.000 | and said they should be fully and completely integrated.
00:03:54.000 | They're not opposed to one another. They should be working together.
00:03:57.500 | And so a couple of years ago I decided that I was going to be the one to cross that bridge.
00:04:01.500 | So I closed my financial planning firm and I launched Radical Personal Finance.
00:04:06.000 | And for the last over two years I've been working very, very diligently
00:04:09.500 | to try to cross that bridge for people.
00:04:11.500 | Well, let's start first with some definitions.
00:04:14.500 | So can you define personal finance and can you define professional finance?
00:04:18.500 | I would define very loosely personal finance as all of the stuff that you do toward money.
00:04:25.500 | And so the advice under personal finance, to give some examples,
00:04:29.000 | would be things like don't buy a latte every day and the famous latte factor.
00:04:34.500 | Save that money.
00:04:35.500 | The advice would be something like invest in real estate.
00:04:38.500 | The advice would be something like get out of debt.
00:04:41.000 | The advice would be something like fund your 401(k).
00:04:44.000 | These are all the things that you do that are commonly heralded in financial periodicals
00:04:49.000 | and financial shows as things that you should do.
00:04:52.000 | Now the world of technical financial planning is the specifics.
00:04:55.500 | Okay, if you're going to buy a piece of real estate,
00:04:58.000 | should you purchase it within a trust or within a business entity?
00:05:01.500 | If you're going to invest into a retirement account,
00:05:05.500 | should you use a solo 401(k) or a SEP IRA?
00:05:09.500 | Or should you establish a defined benefit pension program for your company?
00:05:13.000 | Or if you're going to buy life insurance, should you buy term life insurance
00:05:16.000 | or universal life insurance or whole life insurance, etc.?
00:05:19.000 | And so usually these two things are sold in very different ways.
00:05:23.000 | Personal financial advice, especially with something like real estate,
00:05:26.000 | is usually sold through the form of a motivational seminar.
00:05:29.500 | Something like you can get rich if you just buy rental properties
00:05:32.500 | and you can purchase it with no money down
00:05:34.500 | or whatever the latest thing is that's being focused on
00:05:37.000 | at the various cycles of the real estate market.
00:05:39.500 | And so these types of seminars are very influential.
00:05:42.000 | This type of education is very influential.
00:05:44.500 | But what happens is, as happened to me when I was a financial advisor,
00:05:48.000 | a real estate investor might be sitting there saying,
00:05:50.500 | "Well, as I look at my situation, I'm just going to go buy more real estate.
00:05:54.500 | And that's going to fix all of my financial problems.
00:05:57.500 | I don't need to worry about a budget. I'll just go buy more rental properties."
00:06:00.500 | I had a client that was like this. He had 70 or 80 rental properties.
00:06:03.000 | He was always broke and he kept trying to fix the fact that he was broke
00:06:06.500 | by going and buying more properties and doing more deals.
00:06:09.000 | Now, that's what often happens if you don't value the technical financial advice.
00:06:13.500 | On the flip side, the danger is that you spend so much time
00:06:16.500 | on the technical financial advice that you don't get any of the motivation
00:06:20.000 | or don't get any of the practice.
00:06:21.500 | Somebody's worrying about how to optimize the asset allocation
00:06:24.500 | in their retirement account when in reality they should be out
00:06:27.500 | walking neighborhoods or cruising Craigslist and trying to put in offers on houses.
00:06:31.500 | And so these two things need to be fully together because you need both
00:06:35.000 | in order to be successful financially long term.
00:06:38.000 | So how do we think about this? What's the approach that we should take?
00:06:42.000 | Well, good financial planning always starts with goals.
00:06:45.000 | And you should always build from specific stated goals,
00:06:50.500 | which are goals that are for you.
00:06:53.500 | So trying to stay focused with the real estate bent here
00:06:56.500 | to help your audience with the most.
00:06:58.500 | Real estate should be just simply a funding mechanism for life.
00:07:02.000 | Oftentimes when you ask people how much real estate they want to own,
00:07:05.000 | they'll throw out some round number.
00:07:07.000 | I want to own 10 rental houses or I want to own $5 million worth of property
00:07:11.500 | or 25 houses or things like this.
00:07:14.000 | I always ask people why?
00:07:16.000 | What are you going to pay for with those properties?
00:07:19.500 | Usually these numbers in my experience come from reading a motivating book,
00:07:23.500 | hearing a motivating speaker who talks about how rich they are
00:07:26.500 | and how much great things that they can buy.
00:07:28.500 | But many people never sit down and say, "Well, what do I actually need?"
00:07:31.500 | So the median household income in the United States of America
00:07:33.500 | is somewhere in the $40,000 range.
00:07:35.500 | You could hit $40,000 a year of net profit from, depending on your market,
00:07:39.500 | something like four rental houses, maybe five rental houses,
00:07:43.000 | once those houses are debt-free.
00:07:45.000 | And so what happens is because people aren't actually sitting down
00:07:47.500 | and looking at their budget and figuring out how much money they need
00:07:51.000 | and then making a plan to meet that with their investment strategy,
00:07:54.500 | to meet that with a specific number of houses,
00:07:57.000 | they wind up pursuing either an inefficient plan or a risky plan.
00:08:00.500 | Just using my very simple example,
00:08:02.000 | many of your listeners will want to spend more money.
00:08:04.000 | I'm not saying there's anything wrong with spending more money
00:08:06.000 | or trying to accumulate a bigger portfolio.
00:08:08.000 | But the quicker you can get to a place of financial stability
00:08:11.000 | and the lower your goals are, the easier it is to get there with less risk.
00:08:14.500 | So many people would be well-served by taking a look at their expenses.
00:08:18.500 | Say there's something like $4,000 a month,
00:08:20.500 | which is median in the United States of America.
00:08:23.000 | You can live a great lifestyle on $4,000 a month.
00:08:25.500 | Many people would be well-served by getting to that number first
00:08:28.500 | and then perhaps pursuing aggressively,
00:08:30.500 | clearing all the leverage on their portfolio,
00:08:32.500 | so that they have total safety.
00:08:34.500 | So that no matter what the market cycle is,
00:08:36.500 | no matter what the market condition is,
00:08:38.000 | they can actually maintain that lifestyle.
00:08:40.500 | And I could point to scads of real estate investors
00:08:43.500 | who've learned this the hard way.
00:08:44.500 | That will probably serve as a better foundation for a lifetime of wealth
00:08:48.000 | than just trying to pursue the big fancy-sounding personal finance goal
00:08:52.000 | of I own 25 properties,
00:08:53.500 | and then perhaps making a mistake with the buy,
00:08:56.000 | structuring the financing unwisely,
00:08:58.000 | and winding up losing it all and having to start again.
00:09:00.000 | So there should be a combination of good technical financial planning techniques,
00:09:05.000 | clear goals, and what unites them is having a clear goal
00:09:08.500 | and then using different funding mechanisms for those goals.
00:09:11.500 | Yeah, I completely agree because so often
00:09:15.500 | I've had over 700, 800 interviews on this podcast
00:09:18.500 | and I've had the privilege of interviewing people
00:09:21.500 | who have gone through 2008 and lost it all and are rebuilding.
00:09:26.500 | And the way they're rebuilding is that they are not leveraging
00:09:30.500 | nearly as much as what they were,
00:09:32.500 | and they have cash on hand for when the next market correction happens.
00:09:37.000 | And that's basically what you're saying,
00:09:39.500 | where you identify what your goal is,
00:09:42.000 | and you then look to see what type of leverage you have in your portfolio,
00:09:48.000 | clear out the leverage, meaning the debt,
00:09:50.500 | and then you've got the cash flow on hand
00:09:53.500 | regardless of what the market happens, right?
00:09:56.000 | To add to what you said,
00:09:57.500 | the idea behind taking an approach is to recognize
00:10:01.000 | owning real estate is not an end in and of itself.
00:10:05.500 | It's a means to an end.
00:10:07.500 | And so as soon as you have that goal achieved,
00:10:10.000 | you should be working to stabilize it
00:10:13.000 | because it's far better to achieve a basic goal,
00:10:15.500 | stabilize, and then move on from a place of strength
00:10:18.500 | than it is to always be stretching out your hand for something more and more and more and more.
00:10:22.000 | Real estate is a fine investment class.
00:10:25.000 | It has created many, many, many wealthy people,
00:10:28.000 | but it also has its own problems.
00:10:29.500 | And so without focusing on something like good financing and minimization of financing,
00:10:35.000 | you wind up stretching too far,
00:10:37.500 | market cycle changes,
00:10:39.000 | immature investor,
00:10:40.500 | and they have to start all over again.
00:10:43.500 | Another example of the parallel is in technical financial planning,
00:10:46.500 | we spend a lot of time focusing on asset allocation plans and diversification.
00:10:51.500 | My experience has been that real estate investors,
00:10:53.500 | at least the ones that I've personally interacted with,
00:10:55.500 | have a tendency to discount the value of asset allocation planning, of diversification.
00:11:02.000 | Usually, in order to do well in real estate,
00:11:04.500 | people find one area of specialty that they do really well with,
00:11:08.500 | whatever their business strategy is.
00:11:10.500 | And they focus on that area of specialty to the exclusion of other things,
00:11:15.000 | whether that means they only invest in real estate,
00:11:17.500 | they don't invest in anything else,
00:11:19.500 | that means they don't own publicly traded securities,
00:11:22.000 | they don't own bonds,
00:11:23.500 | they don't own gold or silver coins,
00:11:25.500 | they don't have bank accounts with cash in them,
00:11:27.500 | everything's going to be in real estate.
00:11:29.000 | Or if it means they exclusively focus on a very small specialty type of real estate investing,
00:11:35.000 | and they wind up with a very concentrated portfolio.
00:11:37.000 | Well, a good financial planner is going to look at that and say,
00:11:39.500 | "You've got a lot of risk here.
00:11:41.000 | So what can we do in your situation to diversify your risk?"
00:11:44.500 | And so at different stages of a real estate investor's life cycle,
00:11:47.500 | they need to consider very carefully how to diversify their risks
00:11:52.500 | and what forms of risks they're diversifying from.
00:11:56.000 | There's a risk of being very focused on one specific neighborhood
00:11:59.000 | or one specific type of real estate.
00:12:01.000 | So you always want to balance the fact that your best deals are going to come
00:12:05.500 | when you're a market specialist.
00:12:07.000 | So therefore, yes, specializing one neighborhood is a good plan to start with.
00:12:11.000 | But things can happen beyond your control.
00:12:13.500 | So as you're building wealth,
00:12:15.000 | it's good to diversify out of real estate into other investment classes that are helpful to you.
00:12:19.500 | Diversify out of one neighborhood or one particular type of real estate
00:12:23.500 | so that you can have more safety in your overall portfolio.
00:12:28.000 | Do you invest in real estate?
00:12:30.000 | I have invested in real estate in the form of my own personal property.
00:12:34.000 | I don't currently own any rental properties.
00:12:37.000 | And why have you chosen not to do that?
00:12:39.500 | Because a couple of things.
00:12:41.000 | I do intend to.
00:12:42.000 | In fact, I'm very carefully--
00:12:43.500 | I know the specific neighborhoods.
00:12:45.000 | I know the specific real estate strategy.
00:12:46.500 | I've researched it extensively as far as I've chosen the strategies that will work the best for me.
00:12:51.500 | But for a couple of reasons, in my local area, I'm currently waiting.
00:12:54.500 | Number one is I'm watching the market in my area.
00:12:57.500 | And the particular type of real estate strategy that I desire to build,
00:13:01.000 | which is very much on the model of what John Schaub teaches--
00:13:04.000 | single-family houses, 322s, middle-class neighborhoods--
00:13:08.000 | this particular market is not at an excellent bargain price.
00:13:11.000 | Doesn't mean there aren't bargains available.
00:13:13.000 | It's not an excellent bargain price as an asset class.
00:13:15.500 | Number two is that my best form of opportunity right now is in the form of my business.
00:13:20.500 | So my business is completely unconstrained from the potential investment returns of an asset class like real estate,
00:13:28.000 | where the growth of the value of the market is going to be dependent upon the underlying incomes locally.
00:13:32.500 | My business is an infinitely leverageable business.
00:13:35.500 | I run a virtual internet business.
00:13:37.500 | I've been building it for two years.
00:13:39.000 | And there's no physical factor that constrain the growth.
00:13:42.000 | And there are some key places that I'm focusing on investing my money, my savings money, into that business
00:13:47.000 | to gain the investment growth from that business.
00:13:50.000 | And so right now, I can make--I believe, I'm in the process of proving--
00:13:54.000 | I can make a much higher return from my business activities than from my real estate activities.
00:14:01.000 | So my current plan where I am, as we record this here in September 2016,
00:14:05.500 | is I'm focusing heavily on my business right now, and then I'm stockpiling cash.
00:14:09.500 | And that cash forms an excellent foundation for my business stability,
00:14:13.500 | and it also will form the foundation that I need to be able to find good properties here in my local area.
00:14:19.000 | And so I'm looking at real estate investing not as a primary source of cash generation,
00:14:23.500 | but as an excellent source of me parking some of my investment dollars.
00:14:27.500 | So I'm watching the local market, keeping an eye, and then my own personal gut on my local real estate market
00:14:33.500 | is a couple years from now, we're going to have a lot more deals available than today.
00:14:38.000 | And so I will be in a position where a couple years from now,
00:14:41.000 | I'll be ready to go ahead and transfer some of my cash into property.
00:14:45.000 | What's something that is a mistake that you see commonly repeated among real estate investors?
00:14:52.500 | You mentioned the lack of diversification, but is there something else that you see?
00:14:56.500 | Probably the biggest thing is not doing enough research on different ideas and different plans.
00:15:01.500 | Many people who get into real estate get in through the form of some sort of real estate seminar,
00:15:06.500 | a real estate book, and those things are great.
00:15:09.000 | I learned a lot in my younger year.
00:15:11.000 | I first got interested in real estate through a real estate seminar by one of the shysters
00:15:15.000 | who is now bankrupt and out of business, thankfully.
00:15:18.000 | And I was a hair's breadth away from maxing out my credit cards to buy the $30,000 consulting package
00:15:24.000 | that was going to make me rich in no time.
00:15:26.000 | And I watched a few of my friends who went in, I watched a few of my friends go completely bankrupt in 2008.
00:15:31.000 | So I'm thankful I was saved from that.
00:15:33.000 | But I spent years thinking that there was only one real estate strategy.
00:15:36.000 | And then when I was digging into it much more deeply and starting to study,
00:15:40.500 | I realized that no, that's not the case.
00:15:42.500 | There are many real estate strategies.
00:15:44.500 | And there are many types of businesses, many types of approaches to investing.
00:15:49.500 | I had a number of very wealthy real estate investors who were clients of mine.
00:15:52.500 | As I interacted with them, I realized that one thing they had done is they had found a style of real estate investing
00:15:59.500 | that suited their personality, that suited the type of business that they wanted to build.
00:16:03.500 | And real estate businesses are now still on my backup list of businesses that if my current business were to fail,
00:16:09.000 | I would consider building some sort of real estate investment business.
00:16:13.000 | But there are so many different types that you could build.
00:16:16.000 | And most people don't do any research.
00:16:18.000 | It's like they won't spend $100 or $200 on some really good books and read them
00:16:23.000 | in order to educate themselves on different opportunities.
00:16:25.000 | And then think to themselves, "Ah, new construction. That would actually fit me really well."
00:16:29.000 | Or buying single family houses or commercial real estate or tax deeds.
00:16:32.000 | It just usually goes based upon whatever the latest newsletter I bought was that I found was interesting.
00:16:37.000 | I recommend do a survey of the marketplace and go and meet investors.
00:16:41.000 | Go and ride along with them and go and find them.
00:16:43.000 | And then understand the business models.
00:16:45.000 | Understand what your source of capital is.
00:16:47.500 | Where are you going to get investment capital if you're starting with nothing?
00:16:50.000 | Where is the profit point in a deal?
00:16:52.000 | Where do you actually get your profit from and your cash flow?
00:16:55.000 | And then based upon your situation, you'll know how to approach investment.
00:17:00.000 | It's different if you just got out of high school and you don't have any money but you have a lot of time.
00:17:05.000 | You can build a real estate business with no money and a lot of time.
00:17:08.000 | But it's going to be different than the guy who's 55 years old who has a massive income from his job or business
00:17:13.000 | and he's just parking some money in real estate as a component of his investment portfolio.
00:17:17.000 | Those would be two very different activities.
00:17:20.000 | Is there anything else that we haven't talked about as it relates to personal finance
00:17:26.000 | and professional finance techniques and them being interrelated and real estate investors that you want to mention?
00:17:32.000 | I would say buy good advice.
00:17:34.000 | I want to be careful about not generalizing too much.
00:17:37.000 | But you always want to buy good advice.
00:17:39.000 | Buy good professional advice.
00:17:41.000 | And especially in the areas of financial planning, knowing the best way to structure a transaction,
00:17:46.000 | knowing the best way to structure your financing, knowing the best way to structure your ownership.
00:17:52.000 | If you buy good advice, especially with technical financial planning, it can have a massive potential impact.
00:17:58.000 | And I'm not lobbying for any one specific thing.
00:18:01.000 | But what happens is there can be a tendency among a subset of real estate investors to be very, very proud,
00:18:09.000 | and rightly so, of the skill that they have in putting deals together.
00:18:14.000 | And then to automatically dismiss those of us who were technical experts in a particular area,
00:18:19.000 | putting the transaction together, putting the financing together.
00:18:22.000 | And you want to be careful there. Both are important.
00:18:25.000 | No, the technical expert is usually often not a rainmaker.
00:18:28.000 | But you want them on your team, and you want to take the time to absorb and study good advice
00:18:33.000 | because the profits are usually found at the margin.
00:18:36.000 | So in real estate, number one, fundamental economic principle is that change always occurs at the margin.
00:18:42.000 | That's where changes occur. It doesn't occur in the middle. It always occurs at the margin.
00:18:46.000 | And so a lot of your wins in a deal are found at the margin.
00:18:49.000 | If you go into a property and you sit down and you're up against another investor,
00:18:53.000 | and if that other investor is just simply looking at that property in the most basic form,
00:18:58.000 | they might have a rate of return that they're estimating from that deal of X percent.
00:19:03.000 | But if you go into that and you know that I can make a slight tweak here with my financing,
00:19:08.000 | I can make a slight tweak here and cut costs in this thing here,
00:19:12.000 | and I can make a slight tweak here with my sales process,
00:19:15.000 | and if you understand the full process, you might be able with your return to get X plus an extra 30 percent.
00:19:22.000 | Well, you do that systematically over the course of a career, and that X plus 30 percent makes a huge difference.
00:19:29.000 | So if you look at what seems like small differences in individual deals when they're accumulated
00:19:35.000 | and compounded over a lifetime, it makes a huge difference in your total level of wealth.
00:19:40.000 | What's the best place the best ever listeners can reach you?
00:19:44.000 | If you're interested in listening to my show, Radical Personal Finance,
00:19:46.000 | just search the App Store on your phone for Radical Personal Finance.
00:19:49.000 | That's the best thing to do.
00:19:50.000 | I've got almost 400 episodes there, in-depth financial content.
00:19:54.000 | We cover everything from how to live in your car to complicated financial planning,
00:19:59.000 | how to structure trusts and how to set up and understand estate planning, give the basics.
00:20:04.000 | And none of it will substitute for good personal advice,
00:20:07.000 | but what I tell my listeners is you'll be well-equipped to actually understand the terminology
00:20:11.000 | and understand where some of the loopholes are so that you can get good personal advice applied to your situation.
00:20:17.000 | I've been taking notes along the way.
00:20:19.000 | I already mentioned what we talked about earlier, and that was the goal and the plan and clearing the leverage.
00:20:25.000 | But a couple of other things that I wrote down while you were talking I think is just something really insightful
00:20:31.000 | and that we all as real estate investors need to own this philosophy,
00:20:36.000 | and that is owning real estate is a means to an end.
00:20:39.000 | And I've always said that about fixing and flipping and wholesaling because it's just a transaction.
00:20:47.000 | It's not a long-term strategy.
00:20:49.000 | It's basically a job where you get income, and then you need to do something with that income.
00:20:55.000 | But I also need to look in the mirror and look at my business model where I buy apartments with investors
00:21:01.000 | and share in the profits, but usually we have a five-year exit strategy.
00:21:04.000 | So really what I'm doing is also very similar to fix and flipping, just on a different level.
00:21:10.000 | And I think there's a lot of ways that that philosophy can be applied.
00:21:14.000 | So make sure that we realize that this is a means to an end with the end being the goal that we have stated
00:21:21.000 | for what we are trying to accomplish financially.
00:21:24.000 | And then the other thing that you mentioned that I thought was really interesting for real estate investors in particular
00:21:31.000 | is there is thick irony in that as real estate investors, in order to be successful,
00:21:38.000 | we have to specialize and be very good at one thing.
00:21:42.000 | But hey, guess what?
00:21:45.000 | 101, personal finance, you've got to diversify and make sure that you're covered
00:21:49.000 | should something happen to that one thing that you're doing.
00:21:52.000 | And that's something that we've got to keep in mind specifically and tactically.
00:21:57.000 | Maybe it's different markets.
00:21:58.000 | Maybe it's making sure we have multiple exit strategies.
00:22:01.000 | There's a lot of different ways we can look at that.
00:22:03.000 | But just opening up the topic of conversation is important for the best ever listeners and myself included
00:22:10.000 | so that we can begin or continue to self-assess how we're approaching real estate investing
00:22:17.000 | and how we're approaching our personal finances.
00:22:19.000 | So really grateful that you talked through that and grateful that you're on the show, Joshua.
00:22:24.000 | Thank you so much.
00:22:25.000 | Everyone go check out his podcast.
00:22:28.000 | He's got an app in the App Store, so just search for Joshua's name or search for his podcast,
00:22:34.000 | which is Radical Personal Finance.
00:22:37.000 | Thanks so much for being on the show.
00:22:38.000 | Hope you have a best ever day, and we'll talk to you soon.
00:22:40.000 | Thank you, sir.
00:22:41.000 | Are you looking for a hard money loan or do you have a mortgage note that you want to sell?
00:22:46.000 | Then email David@HassleFreeCashFlowInvesting.com if you recognize this company.
00:22:54.000 | Well, that's because David was a best ever guest on the show.
00:22:58.000 | It's episode 122, David Campbell, and you can email him at David@HassleFreeCashFlowInvesting.com
00:23:06.000 | if you're looking for a hard money loan or if you have a mortgage note to sell.
00:23:10.000 | Enrich your life and empower your future with tuition-free education at North Orange Continuing Education.
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