The Truth About Financial Freedom: It’s Not What You Think!

00:00:00.000 | What does real financial freedom actually look like?

00:00:03.120 | Is it unlimited choices or is it something else entirely?

00:00:06.520 | Today, I'm sitting down with my friend Grant Sabatier,

00:00:09.160 | best-selling author of Financial Freedom

00:00:11.120 | and the Inner Entrepreneur,

00:00:12.460 | to explore how our definition of freedom evolves

00:00:15.600 | as we build our wealth.

00:00:16.820 | But there's a catch, and as Grant says,

00:00:19.280 | So the older that I've gotten,

00:00:20.740 | I've realized that freedom really actually

00:00:23.460 | only exists within limits.

00:00:24.820 | We are going to get really tactical

00:00:26.720 | about achieving that freedom,

00:00:28.020 | including how to set limits,

00:00:29.460 | balance financial independence with personal happiness,

00:00:31.940 | and we'll even debate whether entrepreneurship

00:00:34.200 | might be a key part of this equation.

00:00:36.120 | And if you've ever wondered how to define enough

00:00:38.760 | and how to create a life you truly love,

00:00:40.980 | I really think you'll like this one.

00:00:42.580 | I'm Chris Hutchins, and if you enjoy this episode,

00:00:44.800 | please consider sharing it with a friend

00:00:46.480 | or leave a comment or review.

00:00:47.940 | And if you wanna keep upgrading your life, money, and travel,

00:00:50.940 | click follow or subscribe.

00:00:52.340 | Grant, you have talked a lot about money in your life,

00:00:55.880 | but what does freedom actually look like to you?

00:00:58.240 | Yeah, that's a great question.

00:00:59.980 | So my definition of freedom has definitely changed

00:01:02.640 | as I've gotten older.

00:01:04.040 | When I was younger and I was broke

00:01:05.780 | and I didn't have any money,

00:01:06.640 | freedom just simply meant having enough time

00:01:09.060 | to do whatever I wanted with my life,

00:01:10.720 | not being limited by money,

00:01:12.360 | being able to live the fullest life that I could

00:01:15.100 | without being restricted.

00:01:16.660 | So it was this limitless idea.

00:01:19.160 | And that really was my thinking

00:01:21.300 | when I started my financial independence journey.

00:01:23.300 | I just need the money to get out.

00:01:25.260 | I just need some space.

00:01:26.540 | I just don't ever wanna be constricted.

00:01:28.940 | I don't wanna limit what my family can do.

00:01:31.180 | I don't wanna limit what I can do.

00:01:32.940 | I wanna make the most of this one life.

00:01:34.980 | But interestingly, as I acquired more money,

00:01:38.540 | I started to change my definition of freedom.

00:01:41.800 | And I realized that freedom

00:01:43.620 | really wasn't about unlimited choices.

00:01:45.700 | It was just about having the ability

00:01:48.100 | to do what you love when you want to do it.

00:01:50.940 | And those are two different things.

00:01:52.540 | So for me, I really struggled with this idea

00:01:55.920 | of how am I gonna spend my time

00:01:57.780 | when I reach financial independence?

00:01:59.040 | What am I gonna do?

00:02:00.220 | And I realized that I needed to create

00:02:02.540 | some limits in my life.

00:02:03.920 | So the older that I've gotten,

00:02:05.540 | I've realized that freedom really actually

00:02:08.240 | only exists within limits.

00:02:09.620 | And we obviously have the natural limit

00:02:11.540 | of death in our lives

00:02:13.060 | and we don't know how long we're gonna be here.

00:02:14.880 | And so how we spend our time is really important

00:02:18.060 | and it really matters.

00:02:19.140 | But we're just constantly under siege for our attention.

00:02:23.760 | There's just so many things distracting us.

00:02:25.700 | And especially when you have a little bit of money,

00:02:28.400 | when you're successful, when you have a big community,

00:02:30.440 | there's so many people that wanna do things with you,

00:02:33.240 | so many opportunities that it becomes really important

00:02:35.920 | to construct your own filters for your life.

00:02:38.880 | And this was a hard lesson for me to learn

00:02:41.320 | because I just tried to do everything all the time

00:02:44.260 | and ended up not only getting burnt out,

00:02:46.140 | but just really kind of distancing myself

00:02:48.700 | from a lot of the people that I love.

00:02:50.240 | But once I realized that, hey,

00:02:52.100 | I can control and create my own space of freedom

00:02:55.600 | that ultimately allowed me to create more freedom in my life

00:02:59.640 | and has led me to a life that I really love

00:03:02.480 | with a by-product being,

00:03:03.980 | I have a fair amount of peace in my life

00:03:05.920 | just because all the things that I don't care about,

00:03:08.620 | those opportunities, those distractions,

00:03:10.800 | no longer show up.

00:03:12.220 | But what about you?

00:03:13.580 | How's your thinking of freedom changed?

00:03:15.560 | Yeah, I mean, I think when I started,

00:03:17.060 | freedom was I just, like you said,

00:03:18.900 | you know, you wanna be able to do anything,

00:03:20.080 | go anywhere.

00:03:20.660 | And then thinking about that pursuit can lead you

00:03:25.840 | to feel like you just need unlimited money, right?

00:03:28.700 | It's just like, how do you make more and make more?

00:03:31.040 | And then you realize, I don't need everything.

00:03:32.780 | Like, I'm very happy with the life we have.

00:03:35.080 | And so I think you mentioned limits

00:03:37.400 | and you talked about them

00:03:38.340 | in the constraint of demands on your time.

00:03:41.000 | I think this year, my wife, Amy, and I had talked about,

00:03:43.980 | let's make sure that we're in charge of what we wanna do.

00:03:47.360 | Just because someone invites us to do something

00:03:48.920 | doesn't mean we have to say yes.

00:03:50.220 | Just because someone sends you an email

00:03:51.880 | doesn't mean you have to reply.

00:03:53.360 | And so there's limits on your time,

00:03:55.240 | but are there other kind of limits you put in place?

00:03:57.540 | Yeah, so think about your life as a space of freedom.

00:03:59.800 | It's a container.

00:04:00.560 | And around that container are all the ways

00:04:03.800 | in which you spend your time,

00:04:05.520 | from what you eat to where you travel

00:04:08.880 | to how you spend your money

00:04:10.240 | to the content that you ultimately consume.

00:04:13.460 | We're naturally a balance between our inputs

00:04:18.100 | and our outputs.

00:04:19.500 | And there's times in life when you wanna create,

00:04:22.800 | there's times in life when you wanna consume.

00:04:25.040 | And I think it's really important

00:04:27.220 | to take some time to think through

00:04:29.760 | not only what does an ideal day look like,

00:04:32.540 | what does, you know, you want your life to look like,

00:04:34.800 | and then build a space around that.

00:04:37.920 | This goes beyond just saying no to things

00:04:40.660 | and really helps you ultimately construct limits

00:04:46.300 | around everything in your life.

00:04:48.580 | So a good example is I only use my phone

00:04:50.920 | for six hours a day, right?

00:04:52.700 | That's a limit that I've constructed

00:04:54.120 | that really isn't about my time.

00:04:56.260 | That's just about keeping myself sane

00:04:58.240 | and not getting distracted

00:04:59.460 | and being able to be present, you know, with my family.

00:05:02.240 | Another limit is that I don't travel for work at all.

00:05:05.700 | And that's really less about the time

00:05:07.920 | and more about kind of the wear and tear

00:05:10.540 | that I take on when I'm traveling.

00:05:12.960 | You know, I get invited to speak, you know,

00:05:14.640 | fairly often and I've refused, you know,

00:05:16.920 | large amounts of money to do that

00:05:18.880 | because one of the least happy places

00:05:21.440 | that I am in my life

00:05:22.760 | is when I'm sitting in some random town

00:05:24.960 | on some random evening, you know,

00:05:27.500 | just, you know, missing my family.

00:05:29.320 | And so that's just a limit.

00:05:30.720 | No matter how much someone offers me

00:05:33.380 | to come and pay and speak,

00:05:34.840 | I just say no.

00:05:36.520 | And that's less about the time

00:05:37.920 | and more about, you know,

00:05:39.420 | just not wanting to, you know,

00:05:41.560 | have the wear and tear

00:05:42.640 | and just put myself, you know,

00:05:44.100 | ultimately in that space.

00:05:45.680 | And then around money, you know,

00:05:47.820 | money is one of those interesting things

00:05:49.180 | where our relationship with money

00:05:50.580 | is just like time, just, you know,

00:05:52.680 | is always evolving, is always changing.

00:05:54.700 | And I think for myself,

00:05:56.060 | there's a lot of limits that I've set around money.

00:05:58.880 | And, you know, one of those things is,

00:06:00.560 | you know, how much money I spend on food.

00:06:02.840 | And I don't really budget,

00:06:04.280 | but I naturally try to look for those opportunities

00:06:07.100 | where I know that spending

00:06:09.280 | is going to be able to create a memory

00:06:11.200 | as opposed to just some throwaway spending.

00:06:13.820 | And so over time, at first,

00:06:16.260 | this is quite logical.

00:06:17.260 | And you can simply sit down and write down,

00:06:20.260 | here are the 20 things that I don't like to do.

00:06:23.100 | And this can be in your full-time job.

00:06:24.660 | This can be, you know, with your friends.

00:06:26.640 | This can be with your diet.

00:06:27.980 | This can be with, you know, anything.

00:06:29.320 | Look at those things and use those things

00:06:31.940 | that you don't want to do

00:06:33.180 | as the place to start setting your limits

00:06:35.540 | and pushing your limits, you know, over time.

00:06:38.740 | As you do this more and more,

00:06:40.140 | naturally, your intuition just gets better

00:06:42.700 | at assessing opportunities.

00:06:44.300 | It's just, you have more data inputs.

00:06:46.280 | And so if someone asks you to do something

00:06:47.840 | and you immediately just know,

00:06:49.440 | ah, that's not going to make me happy.

00:06:51.080 | That doesn't fit within my limits.

00:06:52.740 | That doesn't really give me freedom.

00:06:54.040 | And then, you know, you're able to say no.

00:06:56.500 | And the last thing I'll add is,

00:06:58.240 | for me, the most important thing

00:07:00.620 | of all of this is time freedom.

00:07:02.500 | And so I never schedule

00:07:04.020 | more than two meetings a day.

00:07:05.420 | I try to work out every day.

00:07:07.660 | I want to leave space in my life.

00:07:10.440 | And that's always been, you know,

00:07:12.200 | the most important thing

00:07:13.360 | because it's the space in your life

00:07:15.440 | that you open to

00:07:16.900 | when new things ultimately show up.

00:07:19.360 | And that has really rewarded me

00:07:21.700 | because I'm able to, you know,

00:07:23.080 | follow my curiosity

00:07:24.080 | and it generates, you know,

00:07:25.780 | a lot of happiness,

00:07:26.480 | you know, in my life.

00:07:28.020 | But, you know,

00:07:28.700 | what are some limits that you have, Chris?

00:07:29.920 | Okay, so I have some limits,

00:07:31.240 | but I want to make sure I...

00:07:33.260 | I'll come back to them.

00:07:34.220 | But I want to follow up

00:07:35.820 | because a lot of the things you mentioned,

00:07:37.540 | you're in a fortunate position to do.

00:07:39.660 | And so I'm curious how you think

00:07:42.440 | these limits might apply to someone

00:07:44.480 | who's working in a job

00:07:46.600 | and can't afford to just be free

00:07:49.060 | for hours a day

00:07:50.200 | or not be on their computer

00:07:51.660 | or not travel for work

00:07:53.300 | as they might need to.

00:07:54.400 | How do some of these things translate

00:07:56.020 | for people that aren't

00:07:57.340 | in your situation in life?

00:07:59.260 | Yeah, I think the first step

00:08:01.380 | is you have to do

00:08:02.940 | a bit of an assessment.

00:08:03.820 | So, you know,

00:08:04.940 | if you have a job

00:08:05.780 | that you feel stuck in

00:08:07.620 | and maybe you don't like

00:08:08.940 | or that is really stressful

00:08:11.140 | or back to that point about traveling,

00:08:13.140 | if you have to travel a lot for work

00:08:15.160 | and, you know,

00:08:15.860 | it's impacting your health

00:08:17.140 | and you're spending more time

00:08:18.660 | away from your family

00:08:19.500 | and you don't really want to,

00:08:20.640 | it's important to be honest

00:08:22.500 | with yourself about that.

00:08:24.100 | And some simple things

00:08:25.040 | that you can do are,

00:08:26.120 | you know,

00:08:26.440 | for your full-time job,

00:08:27.620 | write down a list of 20 things

00:08:29.920 | that you just really don't like

00:08:31.580 | doing in your full-time job

00:08:32.900 | and you'd rather limit them

00:08:34.760 | and then prioritize those.

00:08:36.840 | And if possible,

00:08:38.420 | think about how you can reach out

00:08:40.140 | to your manager,

00:08:40.780 | reach out to your HR department.

00:08:42.720 | Maybe if you're really tired

00:08:44.340 | of traveling,

00:08:44.900 | there's another role

00:08:46.160 | that you can take on

00:08:46.920 | in your company

00:08:47.560 | or maybe you can limit travel

00:08:49.400 | to a certain period

00:08:50.840 | or time of the year

00:08:52.260 | or work and be proactive

00:08:54.540 | about, you know,

00:08:55.260 | trying to adjust

00:08:56.420 | your full-time job

00:08:57.480 | and your role

00:08:58.180 | to fit more

00:08:59.500 | of what your ideal life looks like

00:09:02.420 | and protect your space of freedom.

00:09:04.220 | You know,

00:09:04.740 | this is about being proactive

00:09:06.100 | instead of being reactive.

00:09:07.920 | If we don't choose our,

00:09:09.760 | you know,

00:09:10.100 | own choices

00:09:10.800 | and set our own limits,

00:09:12.240 | the world naturally

00:09:13.240 | sets them for you.

00:09:14.200 | And this happens

00:09:15.480 | within any company.

00:09:16.720 | You know,

00:09:17.500 | the reality

00:09:18.020 | and I talk about this

00:09:18.880 | a little bit

00:09:19.400 | in my first book

00:09:20.140 | is that most companies

00:09:21.780 | are just legal Ponzi schemes,

00:09:23.380 | right?

00:09:23.620 | It's like,

00:09:23.880 | that's how entrepreneurship works.

00:09:25.760 | It's like,

00:09:26.140 | there's the boss at the top

00:09:27.540 | and there's the shareholders

00:09:28.380 | and there's all the employees.

00:09:29.860 | And the way that

00:09:30.960 | you build a profitable business

00:09:32.500 | or have,

00:09:32.960 | you know,

00:09:33.480 | a successful company

00:09:34.360 | is that you need

00:09:35.020 | to get some level

00:09:35.900 | of return

00:09:36.520 | on your investment

00:09:37.680 | on your employees.

00:09:38.860 | Naturally,

00:09:39.500 | entrepreneurs default

00:09:41.120 | to trying to get

00:09:42.240 | as much out of their employees,

00:09:43.400 | you know,

00:09:43.720 | as they can,

00:09:44.380 | right?

00:09:44.600 | It's like the revenue multiple

00:09:45.780 | or profit multiple

00:09:46.520 | that you get pure employees.

00:09:47.480 | And so your company

00:09:49.360 | is always going to set limits

00:09:50.640 | and they're going to try

00:09:51.280 | to push those limits.

00:09:52.280 | And they know more

00:09:53.380 | about those limits

00:09:54.060 | than you know

00:09:54.580 | about those limits.

00:09:55.320 | And they're thinking

00:09:56.180 | about you,

00:09:56.760 | the person,

00:09:57.360 | and they're like,

00:09:58.000 | how do I give

00:09:58.780 | this person enough

00:10:00.120 | to keep them happy

00:10:01.060 | and to keep them here

00:10:02.340 | and to stay,

00:10:03.220 | you know,

00:10:03.760 | because it costs

00:10:04.480 | the average company

00:10:05.500 | 40 to 60%

00:10:07.060 | of an annual salary

00:10:08.320 | to, you know,

00:10:08.920 | replace an employee.

00:10:09.720 | So they're thinking

00:10:10.620 | about how to keep you

00:10:11.740 | just happy enough.

00:10:12.720 | And so this is important

00:10:14.360 | if you just accept

00:10:15.540 | what they're offering you,

00:10:16.920 | if you don't go in

00:10:18.280 | and push a little bit

00:10:19.500 | where you can,

00:10:20.240 | naturally you're going

00:10:21.700 | to get pigeonholed

00:10:22.640 | with a lot of limits

00:10:24.100 | around your life

00:10:24.800 | that you didn't set

00:10:25.720 | and it's going to be

00:10:26.840 | difficult to escape from them.

00:10:28.220 | And so make that list

00:10:29.400 | within your full-time job,

00:10:30.580 | make that list

00:10:31.520 | in how you spend your time

00:10:32.640 | outside of your job.

00:10:33.800 | This is important too.

00:10:35.200 | And you talk about

00:10:35.980 | your friends

00:10:36.460 | and your family

00:10:37.120 | and even me,

00:10:38.620 | you know,

00:10:39.040 | for the holidays,

00:10:40.080 | typically,

00:10:41.080 | we travel for Thanksgiving

00:10:42.940 | and Christmas

00:10:43.660 | and other holidays

00:10:44.960 | and that ends up

00:10:46.080 | creating a lot of stress

00:10:47.360 | for our family.

00:10:48.400 | And so we've put

00:10:49.320 | these limits around

00:10:50.280 | where we'll travel

00:10:51.160 | and how we'll travel

00:10:52.460 | and we're very honest

00:10:53.620 | with our family.

00:10:54.340 | We have a daughter

00:10:55.000 | and so we can say,

00:10:55.620 | hey, this is better

00:10:56.680 | for our daughter

00:10:57.360 | that we don't

00:10:58.240 | go on this trip.

00:10:59.100 | And so setting those limits,

00:11:00.820 | if you, you know,

00:11:02.000 | have 10 days off

00:11:03.900 | of vacation a year

00:11:04.880 | and you have to spend

00:11:05.960 | seven of those

00:11:06.940 | traveling for the holidays

00:11:08.420 | and then you come back

00:11:09.260 | and you're burnt out

00:11:10.060 | and, you know,

00:11:11.100 | you don't get rejuvenated

00:11:12.260 | and, you know,

00:11:13.140 | it's not really

00:11:14.000 | how you want to spend

00:11:14.760 | your time.

00:11:15.660 | You have to be honest

00:11:16.360 | with your family

00:11:16.980 | and friends

00:11:18.040 | and set those limits

00:11:18.940 | as well.

00:11:19.760 | And I often find

00:11:20.740 | if you're very upfront,

00:11:22.700 | it can be a little jarring

00:11:25.480 | to people when you say,

00:11:26.240 | hey, I can't do this.

00:11:27.380 | But when you express

00:11:29.060 | why you're doing it

00:11:30.640 | and that, you know,

00:11:31.320 | it's important,

00:11:31.860 | hey, I, you know,

00:11:32.880 | need to prioritize self-care.

00:11:34.840 | I need to prioritize

00:11:35.680 | my own family.

00:11:37.680 | You know,

00:11:38.380 | people will understand

00:11:39.220 | and your friends

00:11:40.060 | will still be your friends

00:11:41.340 | and your family,

00:11:42.640 | you know,

00:11:43.060 | hopefully won't

00:11:44.180 | won't be too upset.

00:11:45.020 | So it's really about

00:11:45.860 | doing an assessment

00:11:46.760 | and all of this

00:11:47.420 | is just about

00:11:48.000 | being mindful

00:11:48.680 | about what you're

00:11:50.660 | letting into your life

00:11:51.660 | and the impact

00:11:52.940 | that it's having

00:11:53.700 | having on you.

00:11:54.700 | And this whole thing

00:11:55.620 | is a journey, right?

00:11:56.580 | This isn't something

00:11:57.320 | that you just woke up

00:11:58.260 | one day and said,

00:11:59.060 | oh, I have limits.

00:11:59.800 | I have money

00:12:00.300 | and we're done.

00:12:00.840 | This is something

00:12:01.480 | that you can decide

00:12:02.680 | what you don't like

00:12:03.380 | about your current job.

00:12:04.700 | You can make

00:12:05.620 | some of those changes

00:12:06.720 | at your current position.

00:12:08.460 | Maybe you try

00:12:09.380 | to explore

00:12:10.160 | whether you could

00:12:10.740 | make more of them,

00:12:11.540 | move positions,

00:12:12.300 | move companies.

00:12:13.160 | We'll talk a little bit

00:12:14.120 | later about entrepreneurship.

00:12:15.060 | You could start

00:12:15.720 | something on the side.

00:12:16.580 | But just to be clear,

00:12:18.300 | I'm pretty sure

00:12:19.020 | and correct me

00:12:19.660 | if I'm wrong,

00:12:20.040 | you're not suggesting

00:12:20.960 | that you necessarily

00:12:22.300 | put up all these limits

00:12:23.380 | and change everything

00:12:24.300 | all in one go

00:12:25.640 | after thinking about,

00:12:26.800 | you know,

00:12:27.120 | the conversation

00:12:27.600 | we're having right now.

00:12:28.440 | No, it's really about

00:12:29.200 | paying attention

00:12:29.860 | to how you feel.

00:12:31.460 | And I think

00:12:31.740 | this is the biggest

00:12:32.440 | disconnect for me

00:12:33.500 | is that I spent

00:12:34.620 | my whole career

00:12:35.560 | with kind of

00:12:36.600 | this Western mind,

00:12:37.760 | this trying to think

00:12:39.000 | my way

00:12:39.680 | and outsmart

00:12:40.640 | my way

00:12:41.700 | through everything.

00:12:42.700 | But you have to

00:12:44.080 | really listen

00:12:45.160 | to how you feel

00:12:46.640 | and how your body

00:12:47.500 | is responding

00:12:48.060 | to something.

00:12:48.780 | And, you know,

00:12:49.360 | this is one of those

00:12:49.960 | perennial,

00:12:50.520 | timeless debates

00:12:52.140 | within philosophy

00:12:53.160 | and spirituality

00:12:54.940 | where it's like,

00:12:55.420 | do I, you know,

00:12:56.040 | do I try to think

00:12:57.180 | my way through this

00:12:58.080 | or do I trust

00:12:59.080 | my intuition?

00:13:00.420 | And I, the longer

00:13:02.260 | that I've been

00:13:03.160 | an entrepreneur,

00:13:04.080 | the longer I've been

00:13:05.760 | financially independent,

00:13:06.760 | the more I recognize

00:13:08.300 | that your intuition

00:13:09.420 | is actually the strongest

00:13:11.100 | gift that you have.

00:13:12.560 | And most of us

00:13:13.540 | just silence it.

00:13:14.380 | We just keep doing

00:13:15.440 | the thing that we've

00:13:16.300 | always done

00:13:17.360 | because we feel like

00:13:19.240 | that's what we are

00:13:19.820 | supposed to do

00:13:20.620 | and it's often

00:13:21.480 | the easiest thing to do.

00:13:23.100 | And so you end up

00:13:24.520 | in a place in your life

00:13:26.080 | where all these limits

00:13:27.340 | have been set

00:13:27.900 | by someone else

00:13:28.780 | and you're like,

00:13:29.680 | geez, how did I

00:13:30.840 | get here?

00:13:31.560 | How can I change

00:13:33.100 | this up a little bit?

00:13:34.100 | And you're right.

00:13:34.980 | It's all about

00:13:35.840 | it takes time.

00:13:37.320 | You don't have

00:13:37.840 | to be dramatic.

00:13:38.400 | You don't have

00:13:38.800 | to quit your job.

00:13:39.620 | You just have

00:13:40.340 | to pay attention

00:13:41.240 | and listen

00:13:41.980 | and recognize

00:13:43.140 | that how you feel

00:13:44.940 | really matters here.

00:13:46.600 | If you feel stuck,

00:13:47.520 | you probably are.

00:13:48.940 | That doesn't mean

00:13:49.540 | you have to make

00:13:49.860 | massive shifts.

00:13:50.800 | It's just you can

00:13:51.920 | make smaller choices

00:13:53.060 | that move you

00:13:54.200 | towards a life you love.

00:13:55.400 | And then the other

00:13:56.380 | piece, Chris,

00:13:57.020 | I'll tell you,

00:13:57.540 | I've talked

00:13:58.360 | with so many people

00:13:59.440 | and it's so fun

00:14:01.060 | in the work that I do

00:14:01.920 | because I could just

00:14:02.500 | get to hear people's

00:14:03.260 | life stories

00:14:03.920 | and all about their jobs.

00:14:06.000 | And I realized

00:14:07.400 | that so many people

00:14:09.060 | are so much closer

00:14:10.660 | to a life

00:14:11.360 | that they love

00:14:12.020 | than they recognize.

00:14:13.100 | And so they tend

00:14:14.560 | to over-focus

00:14:15.720 | on the stress

00:14:16.920 | and on the negative.

00:14:17.700 | And especially

00:14:18.680 | when we're pursuing

00:14:19.300 | financial independence,

00:14:20.120 | when we're working,

00:14:21.400 | it's like 80 or 90%

00:14:22.920 | of our brain

00:14:23.700 | is taken up

00:14:25.160 | by the energy

00:14:27.000 | and our thinking

00:14:28.220 | around our work

00:14:29.160 | and our money.

00:14:29.780 | And then you add

00:14:30.400 | family into this.

00:14:31.160 | I had a daughter,

00:14:31.980 | you know,

00:14:32.640 | after reaching

00:14:33.460 | financial independence

00:14:34.260 | and just the

00:14:35.380 | how much less time

00:14:36.380 | I have is just

00:14:37.160 | ultimately staggering.

00:14:38.140 | And so if you're

00:14:39.240 | working for money

00:14:40.120 | and you're stressed

00:14:41.020 | about your job

00:14:41.840 | and you have a family,

00:14:43.140 | there's very,

00:14:44.100 | very little space

00:14:45.220 | and time in your life

00:14:46.640 | for you to pay

00:14:48.360 | attention to your intuition,

00:14:50.080 | for you to take care

00:14:50.880 | of yourself

00:14:51.420 | and for you to

00:14:52.440 | construct your own

00:14:53.480 | space of freedom.

00:14:54.240 | And so you have to work

00:14:55.540 | a little bit harder

00:14:56.360 | to carve out that time.

00:14:57.880 | One of the things

00:14:58.780 | that I recommend

00:14:59.520 | everyone do,

00:15:00.880 | if you don't meditate,

00:15:01.600 | you should start meditating

00:15:02.660 | and just try it.

00:15:03.700 | But I recommend

00:15:04.240 | everyone schedule

00:15:05.380 | at least a one

00:15:06.620 | to two day

00:15:07.600 | personal retreat,

00:15:08.960 | you know,

00:15:09.860 | every year

00:15:10.580 | or ideally,

00:15:11.400 | you know,

00:15:12.080 | every six months

00:15:12.900 | or once a quarter.

00:15:13.660 | And hopefully

00:15:14.880 | it can be

00:15:15.800 | even a silent retreat

00:15:16.840 | where you're alone

00:15:17.680 | or you go to,

00:15:18.860 | you know,

00:15:19.240 | a Buddhist center.

00:15:20.520 | You know,

00:15:21.060 | there are all these

00:15:21.680 | kind of small retreats

00:15:22.820 | that you can do

00:15:23.480 | that you can create

00:15:25.340 | a space

00:15:26.020 | and an opening

00:15:26.680 | in your life

00:15:27.360 | that allows more

00:15:28.640 | of your intuition

00:15:29.420 | to come out

00:15:30.940 | and helps to give you

00:15:31.940 | more perspective

00:15:32.560 | because it's very,

00:15:33.220 | very difficult in life

00:15:34.180 | when you're so busy

00:15:35.820 | and you're so stressed

00:15:36.760 | to actually self-reflect.

00:15:38.500 | You just get stuck

00:15:39.780 | in the grind.

00:15:40.540 | And that's one

00:15:41.460 | of the biggest

00:15:41.980 | takeaways for me

00:15:43.280 | and the biggest thing

00:15:44.220 | that I recommend

00:15:44.820 | is that you have

00:15:46.080 | to create space

00:15:46.900 | in your life

00:15:47.460 | to figure out

00:15:48.820 | how you really

00:15:49.380 | feel about something.

00:15:50.660 | And so anyone

00:15:51.500 | can carve out

00:15:52.220 | that space,

00:15:52.920 | you know,

00:15:53.520 | today

00:15:54.000 | just by being

00:15:55.780 | intentional about it

00:15:57.080 | and then paying attention

00:15:58.180 | and then not only

00:15:59.520 | listening to how you feel

00:16:01.100 | but then taking

00:16:01.900 | small actions.

00:16:02.600 | And so if you

00:16:03.640 | don't like your job,

00:16:04.620 | can you move

00:16:05.560 | to another career

00:16:06.320 | over time?

00:16:07.120 | Are there some pivots

00:16:08.180 | that you can make

00:16:08.780 | in the day-to-day

00:16:09.520 | that make your life

00:16:11.000 | more meaningful

00:16:11.880 | and give you

00:16:12.480 | more happiness

00:16:13.020 | and make you

00:16:14.560 | less stressed?

00:16:15.260 | And a lot of people,

00:16:16.340 | like I said,

00:16:16.760 | are just very close

00:16:17.660 | to a life

00:16:18.560 | that they love.

00:16:19.200 | They're so constricted

00:16:20.580 | that they lose

00:16:21.600 | perspective.

00:16:22.080 | So for me,

00:16:23.000 | it's fun to be able

00:16:24.080 | to go in and say,

00:16:24.760 | hey, let's talk

00:16:25.980 | about your life.

00:16:26.620 | Wow.

00:16:26.960 | You love your friends.

00:16:28.160 | You love your family.

00:16:29.220 | You love the city

00:16:30.260 | that you live in.

00:16:30.980 | You love your softball team.

00:16:32.460 | You love your parents.

00:16:33.840 | You know,

00:16:34.520 | you have great hobbies

00:16:35.700 | but, you know,

00:16:36.260 | your job is really,

00:16:37.200 | really stressing you out.

00:16:38.080 | But all you've really

00:16:39.080 | talked about

00:16:39.480 | is your job.

00:16:40.000 | Let's look at,

00:16:40.580 | you know,

00:16:41.260 | the other 85%

00:16:42.460 | of the things

00:16:43.000 | that you have

00:16:43.400 | in your life

00:16:43.880 | you really love.

00:16:44.900 | It's just this one thing

00:16:46.300 | that's dominating

00:16:47.920 | so much of your thinking

00:16:49.000 | and maybe you already

00:16:50.180 | have so much

00:16:51.460 | of what you seek.

00:16:52.240 | And so that's really

00:16:53.180 | what I try to do

00:16:53.820 | in my work

00:16:54.360 | is just help

00:16:55.560 | share a language

00:16:56.720 | that people can use

00:16:58.560 | and reflect on

00:16:59.600 | to get a little bit

00:17:00.860 | more perspective

00:17:01.580 | on these ideas

00:17:02.940 | of money,

00:17:03.560 | time,

00:17:04.300 | and freedom

00:17:04.800 | and then,

00:17:05.800 | you know,

00:17:06.140 | move closer

00:17:06.860 | to a life

00:17:08.120 | that really,

00:17:08.500 | really fulfills them.

00:17:09.540 | This episode

00:17:10.240 | is brought to you

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00:19:30.440 | and get hydrated.

00:19:31.800 | I've got three follow-ups.

00:19:33.620 | So first,

00:19:34.260 | one of the places

00:19:35.560 | I've enjoyed finding

00:19:37.000 | that space personally

00:19:38.560 | is in a sauna.

00:19:40.080 | And there's plenty

00:19:40.760 | of health benefits to that.

00:19:41.920 | We're not even

00:19:42.320 | going to mention that.

00:19:42.940 | The one really great benefit

00:19:44.580 | is that it is so hot

00:19:46.460 | that you don't want

00:19:47.560 | to bring your phone in.

00:19:48.280 | You know,

00:19:48.800 | like it's dark.

00:19:50.380 | Sometimes I bring in

00:19:51.140 | a pencil

00:19:51.580 | and a piece of paper,

00:19:53.200 | but I have this place

00:19:55.000 | to go where I can't

00:19:57.420 | do a lot

00:19:58.280 | but think

00:19:59.100 | and be with myself

00:19:59.960 | or my wife will join

00:20:01.100 | and we can talk,

00:20:01.820 | but we're not distracted.

00:20:03.020 | We're not looking

00:20:03.580 | at phones.

00:20:04.260 | We're not listening

00:20:05.180 | to music.

00:20:05.660 | There's no TV on.

00:20:06.760 | And so that's one space

00:20:08.700 | I've really enjoyed

00:20:09.640 | that, you know,

00:20:10.260 | I'm not going to go

00:20:10.740 | to the sauna

00:20:11.120 | for two days

00:20:11.880 | for a personal retreat,

00:20:12.780 | but to get half an hour,

00:20:14.680 | 20 minutes,

00:20:15.480 | a few times a week

00:20:16.460 | is great.

00:20:16.860 | So that was one thought.

00:20:17.680 | The second one

00:20:18.920 | is when you said 85%,

00:20:21.780 | it really struck me

00:20:23.120 | and you were talking

00:20:23.800 | about, you know,

00:20:24.320 | 85% of your life

00:20:25.340 | might be the life

00:20:25.960 | you love

00:20:26.380 | and the work part

00:20:27.440 | of it might not

00:20:28.020 | be something you love.

00:20:28.820 | I wish I could remember

00:20:29.800 | which episode,

00:20:30.880 | I'll try to put in

00:20:31.620 | the show notes

00:20:32.000 | if I can find it,

00:20:32.780 | where I was talking

00:20:33.980 | with someone

00:20:34.360 | and they pointed out

00:20:35.080 | like people don't

00:20:35.740 | have to love their job.

00:20:37.740 | Like this idea

00:20:38.580 | of pursue your passion

00:20:39.780 | and your work

00:20:40.900 | has to define you

00:20:42.100 | and be the thing you love.

00:20:43.120 | I think there are

00:20:45.060 | a lot of people

00:20:45.600 | that I've met

00:20:46.200 | in my career

00:20:47.000 | that I know

00:20:47.900 | in my family

00:20:48.560 | and extended family

00:20:49.540 | that they might not

00:20:50.180 | love their job

00:20:50.960 | but they've recognized

00:20:51.840 | that their job

00:20:52.620 | enables them

00:20:53.200 | to have a life

00:20:53.940 | they love

00:20:54.520 | and I think

00:20:55.980 | one of the really

00:20:56.660 | important things

00:20:57.660 | that they've managed

00:20:58.300 | to separate

00:20:58.960 | and where I want

00:21:00.040 | to spend a little bit

00:21:00.880 | of time talking

00:21:01.560 | is that

00:21:02.400 | they haven't made it

00:21:04.100 | their mission

00:21:04.700 | to level up

00:21:06.760 | their career

00:21:07.400 | and have more money

00:21:08.640 | and more,

00:21:09.340 | you know,

00:21:09.840 | responsibility

00:21:10.480 | and more title

00:21:11.300 | because they've recognized

00:21:12.260 | they love their job

00:21:13.100 | and you've said,

00:21:13.820 | you know,

00:21:14.040 | people don't really

00:21:14.920 | feel free

00:21:15.600 | until they know

00:21:16.320 | what enough is

00:21:17.120 | and so I think

00:21:17.940 | the people I know

00:21:18.820 | that have managed

00:21:19.480 | to find a lot of peace

00:21:21.140 | and happiness

00:21:21.900 | in a job

00:21:23.040 | they don't necessarily love

00:21:24.860 | have recognized

00:21:26.280 | that that job

00:21:28.040 | is already putting them

00:21:28.920 | on the path

00:21:29.500 | to have enough

00:21:30.300 | and that allows them

00:21:31.320 | to be happy

00:21:31.900 | so I'm curious

00:21:33.120 | how you think about

00:21:34.120 | enough

00:21:34.720 | and defining it

00:21:35.760 | because one of the lines

00:21:37.280 | you said in the book

00:21:37.980 | is if you don't take time

00:21:39.100 | to figure out

00:21:39.480 | what you really need

00:21:40.140 | chasing more money

00:21:40.960 | is an aimless pursuit

00:21:41.960 | and so how do you think

00:21:43.280 | about that question

00:21:44.180 | because I know

00:21:44.940 | it's a hard one.

00:21:45.860 | you mentioned

00:21:46.060 | an important word here

00:21:46.860 | peace

00:21:47.200 | and I think

00:21:48.380 | everyone wants

00:21:48.960 | to feel more peace

00:21:50.100 | in their life

00:21:50.620 | and we often

00:21:51.700 | don't think about

00:21:52.300 | what peace is

00:21:53.020 | we think about

00:21:53.700 | peace as having

00:21:54.680 | no stress

00:21:55.520 | but what it really means

00:21:56.920 | is that you have

00:21:57.980 | an elevated perspective

00:21:59.100 | on your life

00:22:00.420 | and you're able

00:22:01.360 | to very clearly

00:22:03.460 | look at the things

00:22:04.360 | coming into your life

00:22:05.540 | and the things

00:22:06.280 | going on in your life

00:22:07.520 | and not judge them

00:22:09.680 | and so this is

00:22:10.800 | very important.

00:22:11.420 | There are some people

00:22:12.380 | that are more naturally

00:22:13.460 | wired for peace

00:22:14.420 | and you're talking

00:22:15.340 | about some of them

00:22:16.120 | and I have a friend

00:22:16.740 | like this

00:22:17.180 | he works for the EPA

00:22:18.200 | has a great job

00:22:19.900 | lives in Seattle

00:22:21.020 | Washington

00:22:21.600 | spends time

00:22:23.020 | hiking in the mountains

00:22:24.420 | camping with his son

00:22:25.900 | and he's got this job

00:22:27.380 | that he has to go to

00:22:28.520 | and it doesn't light him up

00:22:30.280 | he doesn't love it

00:22:31.480 | it doesn't fulfill him

00:22:33.160 | but it's secure

00:22:34.420 | when he's there

00:22:35.360 | he's there

00:22:35.860 | and when he's not

00:22:36.500 | he doesn't have to

00:22:37.020 | think about it

00:22:37.640 | and it allows him

00:22:39.000 | to build an incredibly

00:22:40.420 | peaceful life

00:22:42.040 | and like you mentioned

00:22:43.180 | he's just at peace

00:22:44.240 | that this job

00:22:45.700 | is a means to an end

00:22:47.300 | it gives him the money

00:22:48.660 | to do the things

00:22:49.840 | that he wants to do

00:22:50.900 | and do them

00:22:52.580 | with frequency

00:22:53.340 | goes to Hawaii

00:22:54.320 | multiple times a year

00:22:55.460 | and this is important

00:22:56.620 | because he's able

00:22:58.420 | to do this

00:22:59.240 | because he knows

00:23:00.240 | what he loves

00:23:00.940 | he's been honest

00:23:02.400 | with himself

00:23:03.060 | I like hiking

00:23:04.240 | I like golfing

00:23:05.200 | I like grilling

00:23:06.460 | in my backyard

00:23:07.360 | I like playing

00:23:08.700 | basketball with my son

00:23:10.100 | he's listed out

00:23:11.140 | those things

00:23:11.680 | that he loves

00:23:12.360 | and having his job

00:23:14.040 | gives him the time

00:23:15.180 | to do that

00:23:15.780 | and then he's not

00:23:16.860 | stressed

00:23:17.520 | he's not kept up

00:23:19.100 | and so cultivating

00:23:20.340 | peace in your life

00:23:21.360 | is really about

00:23:23.280 | being in alignment

00:23:24.260 | with what you love

00:23:25.160 | and you can do this

00:23:25.900 | as an entrepreneur

00:23:26.500 | you can do this

00:23:27.280 | as a full-time employee

00:23:28.420 | and the more alignment

00:23:29.900 | that you have

00:23:30.900 | in your life

00:23:31.640 | the greater peace

00:23:33.580 | that you're naturally

00:23:34.200 | going to feel

00:23:34.760 | you don't find peace

00:23:36.160 | peace arises

00:23:37.180 | in your life

00:23:38.000 | it's a byproduct

00:23:39.480 | of moving towards

00:23:40.740 | the things

00:23:41.280 | that you enjoy

00:23:42.180 | and that you love

00:23:42.900 | but the thing is

00:23:43.880 | it's often so easy

00:23:45.480 | in life

00:23:46.040 | just to chase more money

00:23:47.200 | it's just what

00:23:48.520 | so many people do

00:23:49.420 | it's just okay

00:23:50.160 | I'm going to make

00:23:50.700 | more money

00:23:51.120 | I'm going to go

00:23:51.640 | after this thing

00:23:52.460 | even when you reach

00:23:53.380 | financial independence

00:23:54.080 | I'm going to

00:23:54.840 | work to get this raise

00:23:56.020 | and all of a sudden

00:23:57.020 | you look back

00:23:57.800 | 20 years from now

00:23:58.880 | on your life

00:23:59.680 | and you're like

00:23:59.960 | wait how did I spend

00:24:01.020 | my time

00:24:02.080 | or you know

00:24:02.860 | someone near you

00:24:04.080 | gets sick

00:24:04.700 | or you get sick

00:24:05.520 | and you're forced

00:24:06.820 | to kind of

00:24:07.260 | take a hard look

00:24:08.160 | in the mirror

00:24:08.560 | and be like

00:24:08.940 | wow is this

00:24:09.560 | really how

00:24:10.680 | I want to be

00:24:11.520 | living my life

00:24:13.000 | and I think

00:24:13.700 | a lot of people

00:24:14.520 | out there

00:24:15.420 | think they know

00:24:16.260 | what they love

00:24:17.160 | but they haven't

00:24:17.840 | really thought

00:24:18.360 | about it deeply

00:24:19.120 | and they haven't

00:24:20.140 | thought about

00:24:20.700 | how they really

00:24:21.940 | want to spend

00:24:22.720 | their time

00:24:23.300 | and the role

00:24:24.140 | that money

00:24:24.640 | ultimately plays

00:24:25.600 | in it

00:24:25.880 | it's about

00:24:26.280 | carving out

00:24:27.000 | maybe a couple

00:24:27.660 | of hours a week

00:24:28.440 | to think through

00:24:29.560 | what is my

00:24:30.680 | relationship with money

00:24:31.600 | did how I spend

00:24:33.180 | this money

00:24:33.720 | make me happy

00:24:34.620 | do I want to

00:24:35.400 | keep spending

00:24:35.980 | my money

00:24:36.540 | this way

00:24:37.580 | am I making

00:24:38.320 | enough money

00:24:38.980 | to live the life

00:24:40.160 | that I want to live

00:24:41.020 | and will I be able

00:24:41.720 | to do that

00:24:42.380 | with some level

00:24:43.520 | of certainty

00:24:44.200 | for a long period

00:24:45.940 | of time

00:24:46.360 | and this is that

00:24:47.320 | balance right

00:24:48.020 | between saving

00:24:49.080 | and spending

00:24:49.680 | where you want

00:24:50.560 | to figure out

00:24:51.200 | okay is it worth

00:24:52.020 | spending today

00:24:52.900 | to do the things

00:24:54.580 | that I love

00:24:55.280 | or worth

00:24:56.380 | saving this money

00:24:57.540 | and compounding

00:24:58.840 | the amount

00:24:59.220 | of freedom

00:24:59.800 | and opportunity

00:25:01.040 | that this money

00:25:02.080 | has over the long term

00:25:03.160 | and then the other

00:25:04.080 | piece is that

00:25:04.900 | for me specifically

00:25:05.920 | my definition

00:25:06.980 | of enough

00:25:07.440 | continues to change

00:25:08.540 | as new things

00:25:09.980 | happen in my life

00:25:10.840 | when I reached

00:25:11.340 | financial independence

00:25:12.140 | you know I thought

00:25:12.780 | that I could live

00:25:13.340 | on you know

00:25:13.840 | 50 or 60 thousand dollars

00:25:15.240 | I have a child

00:25:16.340 | kids are expensive

00:25:17.600 | I want her to have

00:25:18.680 | the best life possible

00:25:19.740 | so my definition

00:25:20.720 | of enough

00:25:21.280 | has to change

00:25:22.660 | and in fact

00:25:23.400 | more of my definition

00:25:24.720 | is about her

00:25:25.780 | and about my family

00:25:27.200 | than about myself

00:25:28.300 | because between me

00:25:29.300 | and my wife

00:25:29.840 | I'm one

00:25:31.060 | out of three

00:25:32.100 | in the equation

00:25:32.860 | and so

00:25:33.520 | my definition

00:25:34.380 | of enough

00:25:34.840 | has actually

00:25:35.320 | extended beyond myself

00:25:36.640 | to be more

00:25:37.560 | about my family

00:25:38.320 | so there's things

00:25:39.540 | that my wife

00:25:40.640 | and daughter

00:25:41.280 | naturally would want

00:25:42.420 | to spend money on

00:25:43.200 | that I wouldn't

00:25:44.140 | but you know

00:25:44.740 | we spend that money

00:25:45.520 | because you know

00:25:46.480 | I know it makes

00:25:46.960 | them happy

00:25:47.420 | and so this is

00:25:48.060 | something that you

00:25:48.760 | never truly figure out

00:25:50.560 | but it's something

00:25:51.640 | that gets easier

00:25:52.580 | over time

00:25:53.420 | when you're

00:25:54.200 | intentional about it

00:25:55.180 | and you take the time

00:25:56.440 | to just to think

00:25:58.220 | through these things

00:25:58.960 | and that's really

00:25:59.760 | what I want my

00:26:00.640 | books to be about

00:26:01.860 | it's an opportunity

00:26:02.540 | of reflection

00:26:03.760 | where you can look

00:26:05.320 | back and say

00:26:05.860 | huh maybe I have

00:26:07.720 | been spending

00:26:08.260 | too much time

00:26:08.980 | chasing money

00:26:09.740 | and maybe I should

00:26:10.880 | be spending my time

00:26:11.820 | you know doing

00:26:12.580 | something else

00:26:13.300 | or maybe I don't

00:26:14.920 | need as much money

00:26:15.780 | as I think I'll need

00:26:17.260 | right now

00:26:17.960 | because so much

00:26:19.340 | of the news out there

00:26:20.240 | the financial advice

00:26:21.220 | it's just negative

00:26:22.740 | it forces you

00:26:23.900 | to feel like

00:26:24.600 | you're never going

00:26:25.240 | to have enough

00:26:25.900 | in order to sell you

00:26:27.140 | a financial product

00:26:28.020 | and so that people

00:26:28.760 | get in that

00:26:29.260 | natural mindset

00:26:29.980 | I'm not going

00:26:30.460 | to have enough

00:26:30.760 | for retirement

00:26:31.340 | I'm not going

00:26:32.280 | to be able

00:26:32.540 | to live on

00:26:33.020 | my money forever

00:26:33.900 | I need to

00:26:34.660 | to hoard it

00:26:35.520 | I need to make

00:26:35.980 | all these massive

00:26:36.720 | sacrifices

00:26:37.420 | and so yeah

00:26:39.500 | my definition

00:26:40.100 | of enough

00:26:40.580 | is certainly

00:26:41.320 | in flux

00:26:42.000 | but I feel

00:26:42.800 | very comfortable

00:26:43.600 | because I've

00:26:44.440 | taken the time

00:26:45.180 | to think through

00:26:46.260 | this in my

00:26:47.340 | own life

00:26:48.080 | and then that

00:26:49.000 | gives me

00:26:49.480 | the ability

00:26:50.080 | just to live

00:26:50.720 | my life

00:26:51.280 | instead of

00:26:52.140 | always wondering

00:26:53.060 | gosh should I

00:26:54.260 | work harder

00:26:54.980 | should I grow

00:26:55.680 | my company

00:26:56.260 | bigger

00:26:56.720 | should I

00:26:57.400 | find another

00:26:58.980 | income stream

00:26:59.960 | should I do

00:27:00.520 | something different

00:27:01.280 | I know there's

00:27:02.080 | a period of your

00:27:02.660 | life where you

00:27:03.440 | weren't thinking

00:27:03.940 | this way

00:27:04.480 | and you were

00:27:05.260 | grinding really hard

00:27:06.600 | 100% man

00:27:08.100 | and that enabled

00:27:10.920 | you to reach

00:27:12.260 | financial independence

00:27:12.960 | and now have

00:27:13.920 | this kind of

00:27:14.440 | elevated perspective

00:27:15.480 | totally man

00:27:16.720 | but do you think

00:27:17.620 | you could have

00:27:18.180 | done it

00:27:18.760 | with this perspective

00:27:20.380 | from the start

00:27:21.160 | or do you think

00:27:22.220 | there is a season

00:27:23.120 | of life

00:27:23.640 | where what

00:27:24.860 | you need

00:27:25.200 | to do

00:27:25.480 | or what

00:27:25.760 | you might

00:27:26.120 | want to do

00:27:26.700 | or how

00:27:26.980 | you might

00:27:27.280 | want to use

00:27:27.720 | your time

00:27:28.600 | is to go

00:27:29.980 | and make

00:27:30.540 | more money

00:27:30.980 | and grind

00:27:31.860 | and hustle

00:27:32.960 | and spend

00:27:33.480 | all the time

00:27:34.000 | and energy

00:27:34.500 | so that your

00:27:35.600 | future life

00:27:36.580 | which now you

00:27:37.380 | have a family

00:27:37.960 | and kid

00:27:38.420 | is easier

00:27:40.560 | dude I write

00:27:41.480 | these books

00:27:42.560 | for my younger

00:27:43.560 | self

00:27:43.940 | I wish that

00:27:45.740 | I could tell

00:27:46.320 | my 27 year old

00:27:47.460 | self just to

00:27:48.020 | chill out

00:27:48.500 | enjoy the journey

00:27:49.740 | you're still

00:27:50.740 | going to get

00:27:51.120 | there

00:27:51.500 | it might take

00:27:52.020 | you twice

00:27:52.380 | the amount

00:27:52.740 | of time

00:27:53.280 | the things

00:27:54.160 | that I said

00:27:54.720 | no to in my

00:27:55.420 | life

00:27:55.760 | I'm not going

00:27:56.300 | to say I have

00:27:56.620 | regrets

00:27:56.980 | but you know

00:27:57.720 | I wish I would

00:27:58.280 | have gone

00:27:58.680 | to the music

00:27:59.540 | festivals with my

00:28:00.340 | friends

00:28:00.660 | I wish I would

00:28:01.180 | have gone out

00:28:01.720 | to drinks with

00:28:02.440 | them instead

00:28:02.900 | of just building

00:28:03.520 | my businesses

00:28:04.260 | and websites

00:28:05.060 | you know

00:28:05.780 | in my room

00:28:07.320 | you know

00:28:07.980 | on my own

00:28:08.600 | I wish I would

00:28:09.320 | have spent more

00:28:09.840 | time nurturing

00:28:10.400 | some friendships

00:28:11.400 | and relationships

00:28:12.120 | that I lost

00:28:12.920 | I think you're

00:28:13.480 | right that there's

00:28:14.040 | times to grind

00:28:15.520 | and times to rest

00:28:16.880 | naturally if you're

00:28:18.560 | younger you have

00:28:19.660 | more time

00:28:20.160 | you have more

00:28:20.720 | energy

00:28:21.180 | right now I can't

00:28:22.140 | do nearly as much

00:28:23.060 | at the age of 40

00:28:23.760 | that I could

00:28:24.320 | at 25 you know

00:28:25.700 | when I was

00:28:26.020 | invincible and so

00:28:27.180 | I feel grateful

00:28:27.900 | that I was able

00:28:28.640 | between 25 and 30

00:28:30.160 | to make all this

00:28:31.300 | money and save

00:28:32.100 | and really really

00:28:33.080 | hustle I did make

00:28:34.240 | some sacrifices

00:28:35.020 | that I wish I

00:28:36.340 | didn't make but

00:28:37.100 | yeah I used my

00:28:38.340 | young energy

00:28:39.120 | and now having a

00:28:40.540 | kid being my age

00:28:41.720 | I'm like I can't

00:28:42.600 | imagine just

00:28:43.820 | starting now to

00:28:45.120 | save it'll

00:28:45.940 | certainly be more

00:28:46.640 | challenging you know

00:28:47.540 | and more difficult

00:28:48.240 | so yes I think you

00:28:49.500 | should do this

00:28:50.160 | when you're

00:28:50.620 | younger and have

00:28:51.820 | more energy and

00:28:52.500 | have more time and

00:28:53.400 | have fewer

00:28:53.760 | responsibilities because

00:28:55.120 | there's just less

00:28:56.280 | constricting your

00:28:57.700 | life you know when

00:28:58.840 | you're younger and

00:28:59.560 | you have a lot less

00:29:00.360 | to lose and so I

00:29:01.780 | think you're right

00:29:02.420 | right about that but

00:29:04.300 | I wish I would have

00:29:05.000 | had more balance

00:29:05.740 | that's just not how

00:29:06.760 | I'm wired I grew up

00:29:07.580 | in a home where

00:29:08.260 | money was always

00:29:08.880 | tight money was

00:29:09.660 | always stressful

00:29:10.400 | money was just

00:29:11.340 | everything that my

00:29:12.180 | parents talked about

00:29:13.080 | and so for me it

00:29:14.280 | was like once you

00:29:15.160 | know I got out into

00:29:15.660 | the world it was

00:29:16.260 | just it had so much

00:29:17.460 | anxiety and stress

00:29:18.380 | for me I meet

00:29:18.980 | people in their

00:29:19.600 | 20s now and some

00:29:20.840 | of them are just so

00:29:21.420 | relaxed and it's so

00:29:22.360 | easy for them to you

00:29:23.660 | know follow their

00:29:24.120 | passions and do the

00:29:25.020 | things they love and

00:29:25.780 | I'm a little jealous of

00:29:26.800 | that we're all wired a

00:29:27.760 | little bit differently

00:29:28.320 | and we also change

00:29:29.900 | faster than we

00:29:31.080 | recognize that we're

00:29:31.960 | changing I think a lot

00:29:33.180 | of us fight change in

00:29:34.420 | our life and we don't

00:29:35.640 | like to reflect on hey

00:29:37.320 | maybe I don't love the

00:29:38.280 | things that I used to

00:29:39.660 | love and so it's just

00:29:41.300 | recognizing that it's

00:29:44.700 | fine to sprint and

00:29:45.780 | fine to rest but

00:29:47.700 | having a little bit of

00:29:48.540 | perspective on you

00:29:49.960 | know why you're

00:29:50.660 | pursuing this journey

00:29:51.600 | ideally having some

00:29:53.660 | level of a definite

00:29:55.280 | goal so for me to try

00:29:56.900 | to save a million

00:29:57.500 | dollars as quickly as

00:29:58.400 | possible and then once

00:29:59.560 | I got there I was just

00:30:00.460 | able to stop and

00:30:01.720 | reevaluate it was like

00:30:02.760 | okay I don't really have

00:30:03.620 | to think about money as

00:30:04.520 | much where am I going

00:30:05.720 | next and so you know

00:30:07.180 | there's levels to this

00:30:08.040 | right and this is one of

00:30:08.940 | the things where there's

00:30:10.380 | kind of these ladders

00:30:11.180 | that you climb up in

00:30:12.140 | your life and then you

00:30:13.000 | get a little more

00:30:13.440 | perspective and you're

00:30:14.200 | like whoa do I want

00:30:15.500 | to take this other

00:30:16.480 | ladder and you know

00:30:17.520 | even now man I meet so

00:30:18.640 | many successful

00:30:19.800 | entrepreneurs you know

00:30:21.100 | in New York who have

00:30:22.560 | way more money than me

00:30:23.520 | or far more successful

00:30:24.460 | and some of them are

00:30:25.780 | happy and some of them

00:30:26.740 | aren't and people are

00:30:28.300 | wired very differently

00:30:29.940 | often the people who are

00:30:31.160 | happiest are doing

00:30:31.880 | things that they really

00:30:32.620 | love and they're

00:30:33.580 | challenged and they're

00:30:34.500 | growing and they're

00:30:35.580 | very outgoing but I

00:30:36.880 | love meeting someone

00:30:38.240 | who's you know more

00:30:39.700 | financially successful

00:30:40.840 | than me and being able

00:30:42.600 | to be like whoa I

00:30:43.500 | feel very happy with

00:30:45.180 | where I'm at because I

00:30:46.560 | can't imagine living

00:30:48.180 | their life.

00:30:48.900 | This episode is brought

00:30:49.900 | to you by Gelt.

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00:33:18.240 | Yeah when we talk about

00:33:19.280 | enough I think for me to go

00:33:20.720 | back I said I would come back

00:33:21.820 | and talk about limits.

00:33:22.620 | One of the things that really

00:33:24.300 | helped me and I think it was

00:33:25.160 | Rachel Cruz was said was

00:33:26.780 | you know budgets actually

00:33:28.300 | very freeing because when you

00:33:29.820 | define how much you can spend

00:33:31.300 | to be within your means you

00:33:33.420 | can you can spend it.

00:33:34.660 | You know when you don't know

00:33:35.500 | how much you have to spend

00:33:36.520 | then it feels like everything

00:33:37.600 | could be stressful.

00:33:38.220 | But for us I think we kind of

00:33:40.740 | line item went through the

00:33:42.060 | categories of spending and we

00:33:43.440 | compared you know with some

00:33:45.180 | basic you know 4% rule or

00:33:47.160 | 3% rule whatever you want to

00:33:48.480 | use math to figure out how we

00:33:50.020 | were trending and how much

00:33:51.400 | we're making and we kind of

00:33:52.660 | got to this point where we

00:33:53.420 | said do we want to spend more

00:33:55.860 | money or do we want to spend

00:33:57.760 | more time to create more money

00:33:59.320 | because if we spend more

00:34:00.460 | money now like we have to

00:34:02.220 | replace it or we're not going

00:34:03.420 | to save enough for for the

00:34:05.200 | future.

00:34:05.480 | So that really made it easy to

00:34:08.380 | say well we don't need a

00:34:10.360 | bigger this or we don't need

00:34:11.880 | more elaborate vacations or we

00:34:14.100 | can get more creative about you

00:34:15.360 | know how to use the the points

00:34:16.560 | of the mile so we don't have

00:34:17.340 | to pay more for those

00:34:18.280 | vacations.

00:34:18.800 | But that was really helpful

00:34:21.000 | for us because we see people

00:34:22.940 | all around us spending more

00:34:25.100 | money on certain things that

00:34:26.240 | we're spending money on.

00:34:27.700 | and it can make you feel

00:34:29.380 | insecure but I actually feel

00:34:31.460 | really secure because we could

00:34:33.420 | go spend that money.

00:34:34.300 | We just know that the trade

00:34:35.800 | off of what will happen if we

00:34:37.960 | spend that money is actually is

00:34:39.400 | not worth it because we

00:34:40.280 | thought about that impact.

00:34:41.460 | And so to your point thinking

00:34:42.520 | about you know where you are

00:34:44.040 | what you need might take some

00:34:46.260 | you know basic retirement

00:34:47.680 | calculations you could go use a

00:34:49.240 | tool to run through that.

00:34:50.480 | I'm actually I think I'm

00:34:51.440 | working on an episode of all

00:34:52.780 | the different kind of financial

00:34:54.380 | planning tools that you can use

00:34:55.980 | on your own to project your

00:34:57.180 | net worth and all that kind of

00:34:58.320 | stuff but because we've done

00:34:59.760 | that work it feels really easy

00:35:01.680 | to say no to spending more

00:35:03.360 | money because we know we don't

00:35:06.140 | want to spend it that way.

00:35:07.240 | When it comes to a lot of

00:35:09.180 | people's advice on financial

00:35:10.320 | independence I think that it

00:35:12.740 | often comes to save save save

00:35:15.500 | cut your expenses limit what you

00:35:18.040 | have so that you can save as

00:35:19.820 | much as possible.

00:35:21.120 | how do you think about that

00:35:23.040 | trade-off on your path to

00:35:25.280 | financial independence of trying

00:35:26.740 | to save more versus trying to

00:35:28.240 | earn more?

00:35:28.680 | Always more valuable to earn more

00:35:30.760 | money while you can because you

00:35:32.940 | just really don't know how long

00:35:34.300 | the opportunity that you have is

00:35:36.000 | going to last.

00:35:36.680 | We see this with all the layoffs

00:35:38.160 | of all the tech companies we see

00:35:39.700 | this with the algorithm changes

00:35:41.420 | and online businesses and Etsy

00:35:43.760 | seller restrictions and I mean

00:35:45.320 | there's just so many changes that

00:35:48.160 | are happening in our world that

00:35:49.800 | when you can make money and you

00:35:52.440 | have the opportunity to make

00:35:53.360 | money you should try to make as

00:35:54.620 | much as possible and then save as

00:35:57.060 | much of that as possible to give

00:35:59.720 | you more options you know in the

00:36:01.180 | future and so de-risking your life

00:36:03.780 | is just about investing in the you

00:36:05.980 | that you've yet to become so it's

00:36:07.920 | always going to be easier in life to

00:36:10.520 | have more money and more options

00:36:13.220 | than not and when you go back at a

00:36:15.480 | very basic level there's very very

00:36:17.440 | little in our life that we can

00:36:18.940 | actually control and I think that

00:36:20.680 | really scares people talk about that

00:36:22.560 | you know in the book you know how

00:36:24.020 | we're kind of stuck between this

00:36:25.880 | sort of like level you know of

00:36:27.600 | uncertainty and this level of

00:36:29.260 | control and the most important way

00:36:32.160 | to deal with this is to control the

00:36:34.620 | things that you can and then just

00:36:36.200 | forget about the rest and so when it

00:36:37.920 | comes to earning money try to earn as

00:36:40.260 | much as you can try to save as much

00:36:42.100 | as you can don't save to the point

00:36:44.140 | where you're unhappy I wouldn't say

00:36:45.980 | that I was unhappy when I was saving

00:36:47.840 | you know 82 percent of my income but I

00:36:50.460 | could have you know lived a little bit

00:36:52.160 | better and done a few more things but

00:36:54.380 | no opportunity lasts forever everything

00:36:57.100 | is changing and I think a lot of people

00:36:59.360 | underestimate the level of kind of risk

00:37:03.720 | and uncertainty in their life and they

00:37:05.580 | just think oh I'm gonna have this job

00:37:07.180 | forever oh I'm always gonna be able to

00:37:09.440 | save 20 percent of my income but we

00:37:11.460 | have no idea what the future holds and

00:37:13.300 | so it's really about managing your

00:37:14.800 | money in a way that helps you de-risk

00:37:17.600 | your life and controlling those

00:37:19.220 | variables you know while you can and I

00:37:21.620 | even think about this you know in my

00:37:23.160 | own life it can naturally be risky to

00:37:25.280 | be an entrepreneur I'm always thinking

00:37:27.120 | about okay what's the five-year plan for

00:37:29.660 | this business and this company and how

00:37:31.660 | can I get out within the next five years

00:37:33.520 | and so I try to build businesses to sell

00:37:36.360 | because I'm worried about really the

00:37:39.700 | economic risk of any sort of market

00:37:42.780 | opportunity or business and so important

00:37:45.000 | to save and earn money while you can

00:37:48.040 | because you don't know how long that's

00:37:50.480 | going to last and you don't want to get

00:37:52.540 | stuck in a place where you have to make

00:37:54.820 | really really drastic decisions in your

00:37:56.980 | life like needing to sell your house and

00:37:59.180 | so that goes back to this idea of the

00:38:01.380 | space of freedom money factors into that

00:38:03.280 | of course right what is your safety net

00:38:05.340 | what is your level of cash reserves how

00:38:08.020 | much you know of your investment

00:38:09.600 | portfolio is liquid versus locked up in

00:38:12.320 | something that if the real estate market

00:38:13.800 | crashes you know you couldn't sell I'm

00:38:15.580 | very much like you I've used the

00:38:17.420 | spreadsheets I've used the tools you

00:38:19.920 | know for years and I'm a very very

00:38:22.060 | numbers person but when that's all that

00:38:25.500 | I thought about I was so limited in my

00:38:29.800 | thinking and so all of this is really

00:38:31.980 | about adding a level of heart to the

00:38:34.640 | head thinking about how you feel before

00:38:37.700 | just looking at the spreadsheet or just

00:38:39.920 | looking at the numbers and I think if we

00:38:42.640 | do more of that it naturally helps us

00:38:45.820 | create more you know freedom and peace in

00:38:48.140 | our life because we've gone through the

00:38:49.520 | work very much like you have and I've

00:38:51.480 | talked with you and now for a number of

00:38:53.280 | years and know some of the decisions that

00:38:54.960 | you've made with your wife around your

00:38:56.860 | business and the choices and I think you

00:38:59.680 | naturally are doing this work and that's

00:39:02.680 | why you know you're happier for it I

00:39:04.540 | think I'm definitely happier for it but

00:39:06.140 | there's a bit of a contradiction and I'm

00:39:08.140 | not sure what someone listening might be

00:39:11.460 | able to do about it thinking of kind of

00:39:13.340 | the the common golden handcuffs situation

00:39:16.040 | you've got this great job you're getting

00:39:17.400 | paid the harder you work the more you get

00:39:19.200 | promoted the more you earn the more

00:39:21.040 | bonus and so on one hand I hear you

00:39:22.800 | saying like take advantage of that while

00:39:24.440 | you have it and then on the other hand I

00:39:26.020 | hear you saying well set up some limits

00:39:28.560 | and don't put it all into one place so

00:39:30.920 | that you can be happy how do you think

00:39:32.320 | people should process the fact that if

00:39:34.520 | they have a high-paying job and and it's

00:39:36.600 | not the life they live how long do you

00:39:40.100 | take advantage of that and when do you

00:39:42.260 | stop and start to make changes so that

00:39:44.340 | you can be happy I love that you brought

00:39:45.700 | this up because isn't this the paradox of

00:39:47.780 | life and I think that people were always

00:39:49.920 | stuck between this duality we're always

00:39:52.020 | stuck between these two choices should we

00:39:54.340 | work harder should we rest should we

00:39:56.520 | spend more money should we save more

00:39:57.860 | money and for everyone listening I don't

00:40:00.320 | know what your life looks like I don't

00:40:02.120 | know who you are what your dreams are

00:40:04.140 | what's important is to recognize that

00:40:06.160 | there's a balance between these two

00:40:07.600 | things and being honest with yourself

00:40:10.540 | and intentional is the only way to do

00:40:14.680 | this and create peace in your life there's

00:40:16.920 | no way that I can tell someone hey

00:40:18.860 | you're 25 you need to grind you need to

00:40:21.840 | bear it out for the next five years or hey

00:40:24.400 | you're grinding it out but you hate your

00:40:26.760 | job you need to quit this is a delicate

00:40:29.180 | balance here where you need to make the

00:40:31.500 | decisions for your own life I just think

00:40:34.280 | it's important to set up these questions

00:40:36.600 | because within these questions within this

00:40:39.100 | paradox is everything that it means to be

00:40:41.420 | alive we have to balance all of these

00:40:43.160 | forces and so the more intentional that we

00:40:46.700 | are the more time that we give to thinking

00:40:48.800 | about this naturally we learn to do what

00:40:53.500 | we know we should do and I think that's an

00:40:56.140 | important thing once again you can't

00:40:57.820 | always think yourself through these

00:41:00.100 | answers you have to trust your intuition

00:41:02.940 | you have to listen and pay attention to

00:41:05.280 | how things make you feel so let's say

00:41:07.680 | someone's golden handcuffs making five

00:41:10.160 | hundred thousand dollars a year spending

00:41:12.240 | all their money have nothing saved two kids

00:41:15.380 | private school feel like they have no

00:41:16.980 | choices no options in a vast majority of

00:41:20.480 | case you have options but those options

00:41:23.140 | are going to change your life in some way

00:41:26.580 | and I would argue that for someone like

00:41:28.280 | that they probably need a change because

00:41:30.760 | there's massive amounts of risk in their

00:41:33.120 | life in that scenario and they need to

00:41:35.440 | de-risk their life in some way and so

00:41:37.620 | that's doing an inventory of where you spend

00:41:40.140 | your money hey maybe we're not actually

00:41:42.680 | making enough money to send our kids to

00:41:44.840 | private school and the public schools where

00:41:47.080 | we live aren't that great so maybe we

00:41:49.080 | actually have to move and maybe we have to

00:41:51.480 | change houses and maybe we have to de-risk our

00:41:54.920 | life a little bit even though we're happy with

00:41:57.240 | everything that we're doing in our life we're on a fast collision path to having

00:42:04.440 | nothing in the future and we're just living on the edge and that's a tough

00:42:10.020 | conversation to have with someone it's a tough conversation to have with yourself

00:42:14.780 | and it's an important one to have because if you feel like you should be having that

00:42:21.300 | conversation with yourself then you really should and the longer that you put off anything the more

00:42:26.340 | difficult that that conversation then can become and so yes there are people in life who are in

00:42:32.420 | very difficult circumstances who are stuck and have very very few options single parents

00:42:38.740 | stable job two kids can't imagine you know doing any of the things that we're talking about here and

00:42:47.220 | that's where it's more difficult to create limits around your life and you have to work even harder

00:42:52.820 | to do it because there's just less time and space and flexibility built into your life

00:42:58.580 | but there's so many pivots that we can make from going back to school learning new skills trying to

00:43:06.420 | make money on the side to get some of that entrepreneurial empowerment and save a little

00:43:12.340 | bit of extra money the important thing is that you do what's within your capacity to

00:43:18.340 | build the life that you want to have and just move towards it no matter how small those steps

00:43:24.980 | are and i've had people reach out to me one woman was homeless she reached out to me she said say i

00:43:30.100 | read an article on you on cnbc i was very inspired i read your book i started working at wendy's i

00:43:35.860 | started saving my money i signed up to work at a real real estate brokerage i ended up getting a brokerage

00:43:41.780 | license now i'm a realtor i just passed a hundred million dollars in sales and this is within a three-year

00:43:48.100 | period and this is like a really top you know performing realtor in the dallas fort worth area and so

00:43:53.540 | she's just made all these massive changes in her life just from being you know inspired by you know

00:43:58.900 | one story and that's a really extenuating example but it's important no matter what's going on in your

00:44:05.700 | life just to to ask yourself what does freedom mean to me how much is enough how can i create more peace

00:44:12.980 | in my life are there some changes that i can make with how i'm spending and making and saving money

00:44:18.580 | it can move me closer to a life that i love and then move towards that and then over time check in

00:44:24.980 | with yourself as you're living your life just to make sure you're moving closer rather than further

00:44:30.020 | away this episode is brought to you by fabric by gerber life if you have anyone relying on your

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00:45:38.580 | company not available in certain states prices subject to underwriting and health questions the latest

00:45:43.700 | book is inner entrepreneur and at first i thought oh this is a book all about starting companies and then i realized

00:45:48.660 | um maybe this is a book all about being in charge of your own life but that doesn't mean that

00:45:53.700 | entrepreneurship isn't a piece so i'm curious how you think of entrepreneurship as a source of income

00:46:00.180 | or a career path fits into the average person's world for happiness and a fulfilling life so we talked about

00:46:09.300 | how there's only so many things in your life that you can actually control and how you make money is

00:46:14.340 | one of those things and so entrepreneurship is really about making money on your own terms and figuring out

00:46:19.780 | ways to make money outside of your full-time job or in addition to your full-time job so you're not

00:46:25.460 | solely reliant on someone else's profit dreams and someone else's you know life plan because whenever

00:46:32.100 | you're working for someone else you're working for someone else and that's fine you can reach

00:46:36.180 | financial independence you know working a regular full-time job there are some incredible jobs out

00:46:41.460 | there but i think that everyone should test being an entrepreneur they should try it out they should

00:46:46.340 | see how it makes them feel they should think through it they should say hey is there a way that

00:46:50.660 | i can make a little additional money you know outside of my job is there a way i can move towards

00:46:55.780 | entrepreneurship it's at least worth thinking about and so the book is really about how to do that

00:47:01.300 | it's about how to think like an entrepreneur it's about how to test being an entrepreneur it's also

00:47:08.340 | for entrepreneurs who might feel a little stuck and not understand where this could go when i started

00:47:15.140 | you know businesses i had no idea how to build a company to sell no idea that i could sell a company

00:47:20.260 | had no idea what a holding company was no idea how to grow a company and so there's so much in the book

00:47:26.420 | that if you're curious about entrepreneurship if you're making a little money on the side even

00:47:30.500 | if you have a business and you're like where should i go with this i wanted to put everything that i

00:47:36.100 | think is important in building businesses into this one book even so people can read it and say hey gosh

00:47:42.980 | that sounds like so much work i don't want to do that but hopefully people read it and they're able

00:47:48.180 | to say hey i'm going to try this out and i've been doing some freelance consulting on the side now i

00:47:53.620 | understand why building a consulting business is probably a terrible business and here's how i can

00:47:58.820 | pivot and do something different instead or hey i've wanted to launch this product on amazon and i've

00:48:05.140 | seen all these things about how amazing it is what is it actually can you actually build a product on

00:48:09.300 | amazon today or how does you know digital marketing work or how do you build a brand or tell stories or

00:48:16.260 | create a content driven business like what are all these things and i feel like i'm a hundred years

00:48:20.900 | old and internet years chris you know it's like because i got my laptop my first laptop when i was

00:48:25.220 | seven and so it's like one of these things too for younger people or even people who are influencers

00:48:30.820 | it's like hey the opportunity that you have is changing so so rapidly so here's how you take advantage

00:48:36.980 | of it and here's what you should be thinking about and what you should be doing and all this other

00:48:42.020 | stuff just really doesn't matter as much i know you've talked a lot about ai there's just so much

00:48:46.740 | massive change going on in our world that really is empowering for entrepreneurs not that great for

00:48:53.140 | full-time employees who are you know easy easier to be replaced now as as we're starting to see but

00:48:58.900 | incredible for entrepreneurs because you used to need all these teams and all these tools and these

00:49:03.860 | expensive sas products and now you can use just a couple of tools and you know get massive amounts of scale

00:49:10.020 | and leverage so you can be a designer a coder a marketer a product manager all with a couple of

00:49:18.340 | you know inexpensive or free ai tools if you're willing to to put in the work so i really wish i

00:49:23.540 | was actually starting my entrepreneurial journey now there's just so much more available i know it's um

00:49:28.500 | um it's crazy we we wanted to set up a site for all the hacks members to be able to share their referral

00:49:36.260 | links so that you know anytime i'm talking about a product sometimes i have a referral link sometimes i

00:49:41.060 | don't and sometimes i have one and it caps out so i shared the us mobile launched this amazing new

00:49:47.220 | unlimited cell phone plan it's awesome and i put in my referral link but you can only refer like five

00:49:52.100 | people or something ten people yeah so it's like i need more people's links so i wanted to create a site

00:49:56.100 | where anyone in our membership could go in and like choose the kind of program and then share their link

00:50:01.940 | and it would create a url that would cycle between all the members links and i'm not even kidding in

00:50:07.940 | hours in a day less than a day i built an a full site that allowed people to go set this up i could

00:50:15.060 | see analytics i could create these rotating links i could put it with my custom domain i was using replit

00:50:19.700 | there's a lot of other tools it is wild what you can build now and i remember when i was working

00:50:25.620 | in venture capital people would email me back oh i have an app idea where do i find a developer and

00:50:30.580 | there was this window of everyone had ideas but no one knew how to execute on them well now is the

00:50:35.060 | time that you can go explore that so i think what entrepreneurship looked like 10 20 30 40 years ago

00:50:42.100 | felt a lot more like quit your job go figure it out maybe even raise some capital and now i want

00:50:49.460 | to encourage people to not think the way that it's always seemed because entrepreneurship could be spend

00:50:54.340 | a few hours building a thing and putting it out there i did an episode about buying and selling gold

00:51:00.180 | right entrepreneurship could be making runs to costco to buy and resell gold go back and listen to an

00:51:06.500 | episode i did with kai who runs this podcast called the daily churn and like he makes thousands of

00:51:11.780 | dollars a month finding deals and and profiting from them there are a lot of ways that you can

00:51:18.020 | do this entrepreneurial thing that aren't even companies and i think that's something that's really

00:51:23.780 | cool because as you said your job and your income is only as stable as as the company is that you work

00:51:30.580 | for and without getting into politics like there are people who thought government jobs were the

00:51:35.300 | most secure thing in the world that are learning right now that maybe they're not and so the push

00:51:40.820 | to find some way not necessarily to replace your entire career replace your job but to just start to

00:51:47.140 | test the waters and see how you can replace some income not even replace compliment some income but

00:51:53.060 | doing it while being fully aware of what you really care about and what you need so that you don't

00:52:00.020 | end up in a place where you're like oh now i have an extra twenty thousand dollars a year let's go buy this

00:52:04.820 | thing without first thinking gosh would i rather use that twenty thousand dollars a year

00:52:10.260 | to create a cushion so i can leave my job or to save for the future so that i can be more comfortable

00:52:17.380 | later but honestly sometimes the answer might be so i can spend more now my interview with bill perkins

00:52:23.380 | really changed a lot of things talking about die with zero and made me realize maybe i should be spending

00:52:28.660 | some of this extra money now instead of saving it for the future and so you just don't know that

00:52:33.620 | answer until you do the work and some of the work we talked about was on the inside figuring out what

00:52:38.900 | you care about who you want to be some of it is how much you have and how much you spend and how much

00:52:43.540 | you've saved but once you do it you can kind of realize that you're free to make decisions where money

00:52:49.780 | isn't the the only factor which which it so often is so i love this and i like that the message isn't

00:52:56.820 | quit your job and go be an entrepreneur and start a company but understand what you care about and see

00:53:02.020 | if entrepreneurship could be something that's interesting to you and it could be on the side

00:53:06.340 | it could be once a month there are a lot of different versions of it yeah i mean everyone's already an

00:53:09.940 | entrepreneur i mean you're advocating for your own life you're creating your own life and so it's

00:53:14.260 | really about just taking advantage of the opportunity the moment realizing where entrepreneurship can take

00:53:19.060 | you the trade-offs that you can make the limits that you can set so you can build a business or make

00:53:25.460 | money in a way that you want to that doesn't stress you out and you know create all these sort of limits

00:53:31.860 | in your life and so yeah it's we just live in a remarkable time if you want to make money and have

00:53:36.580 | more freedom and the tools available they're just changing so rapidly for all the doomsdaying out there

00:53:41.300 | man it's just such an incredible time to be alive and to be a creator and to be a builder and to be

00:53:45.460 | an entrepreneur it's never been easier in history to reach financial independence and reclaim your time

00:53:50.020 | and build a life you love rewind 50 years ago you know none of this would have been possible right it's

00:53:55.780 | like and you just look at how fast the world is changing and it's sort of just like pick the wave

00:54:01.140 | figure out what you want to do learn how to ride it pay attention be intentional you know open to you

00:54:07.940 | know yourself to the world and you know it's just an incredible time to to be alive man i think so

00:54:14.740 | many people just do the thing they've always been doing right and hacking your life is about questioning

00:54:19.300 | that right it's about saying huh i thought that freedom was this one thing but maybe it's something

00:54:23.220 | else or i thought that i really loved this job and making five hundred thousand dollars but you know

00:54:28.820 | i just had a kid and now i want to really spend more time with my daughter so i don't want to do this

00:54:33.220 | thing and so paying attention to that and then letting yourself change and moving towards that

00:54:38.260 | change and embracing that change instead of just sticking to how you've always been and continuing

00:54:43.060 | to do the thing that you've always done just because it's served you well up to this point it doesn't

00:54:48.740 | mean that that's how you should continue to live your life and you mentioned that you spent a lot of

00:54:52.660 | time you know on your own building that you say no to traveling to lots of events how important do you

00:54:59.140 | think community is during this whole journey community doesn't have to be big and i think

00:55:03.940 | we often think that community means having a lot of friends connecting with so many people community

00:55:09.620 | is about surrounding yourself with people you love who make you feel good who challenge you who you want

00:55:14.420 | to create with who you want to participate with most of my best friends are people that i build things

00:55:19.220 | with and that's how i like to spend my time with them whether it's building a company whether it's

00:55:24.420 | creating a band and so those are the people that i've built around my life there's just really

00:55:29.060 | amazing article in the atlantic this month from you know derek thompson i think it's called the anti-social

00:55:34.260 | century all about how everyone's so lonely and all these tiktok trends about people being excited when

00:55:39.620 | their friends cancel plans with them and you know so we naturally default to being alone in this world

00:55:44.900 | but i talk in the book about how collaboration is so much more powerful than competition and in fact

00:55:50.660 | i attribute most of my success online to reaching out to some of my competitors asking them questions

00:55:56.980 | and then just writing me back and inviting me to chat and me being able to learn from my competition

00:56:02.660 | and so my creator community you know a lot of them you know historically have been you know my competitors

00:56:08.420 | and so don't be afraid to reach out to people who are building the thing that you want to be building

00:56:13.060 | who are in careers similar to your careers and learn from them and then just be very intentional

00:56:18.260 | about who you spend your time with and this is important to spend your time with people who make

00:56:22.180 | you feel good who give you energy don't spend time with people who suck all your energy i know you're

00:56:27.060 | very very extroverted person i'm an introverted person so i naturally kind of hide behind my computer

00:56:31.780 | screen and myself but i'm working much harder to surround myself you know with people people that i love

00:56:38.180 | and um you know that i want to be with so community is is is is essential we're social beings we're pack animals

00:56:44.580 | you know as as humans we we need to be around other people to survive and to be happy right all that data shows

00:56:50.420 | that you live longer when you're surrounded by people that you love and so it's important that we find those people

00:56:55.380 | and that we build those those communities and those networks and you know next time you're sitting in a coffee

00:57:00.660 | shop you know take off your headphones and say hi to the person next to you or next time you're on the train

00:57:04.900 | say hello to the person next to you strike up a conversation because i think the value of sort

00:57:09.780 | of random encounters is underestimated and i think it's important for us to to get outside of our phones

00:57:14.660 | and to to look up and and talk to the people around us in fact you know in columbus ohio you know some

00:57:19.220 | of the best friends that i've made here are people that i've just you know literally one person i was

00:57:23.060 | standing in line at a record store and he and i have gone to you know three concerts together just

00:57:27.060 | because i was like hey dude what are you listening to and so um just open yourself to those encounters

00:57:32.100 | don't shut yourself off to the world awesome okay where where do you think we should send people

00:57:36.580 | who want to go deeper on all this if you want to learn more about this check out my new book

00:57:40.660 | inner entrepreneur a proven path to profit and peace where i go very deep on all these topics and then

00:57:46.020 | if you're interested in my journey to financial independence you can check out my book financial

00:57:51.140 | freedom a proven path to all the money you will ever need which is now available officially in 20 languages

00:57:56.580 | so all around the world and in any bookstore or on audio my books are my work and are my my gift to

00:58:05.380 | the world i don't create a whole lot of content otherwise and don't really participate much on social

00:58:10.020 | media just because that's a limit that i've set you know in my life and if you happen to be in

00:58:14.420 | columbus ohio check out my brick and mortar bookstore clintonville books where you'll find me most mornings

00:58:19.860 | if i'm not just meditating in my office or taking my daughter to school is i'm hanging out in my bookstore

00:58:25.140 | pricing rare books talking to customers and that's how i typically spend my days now i love it this

00:58:32.100 | has been great grant thank you so much for coming i really enjoyed it i really appreciate it man it's great

00:58:36.580 | to go deep with you on these topics and love everything that you're doing and i'm happy to

00:58:40.420 | to be a friend and be on this journey with you

The Truth About Financial Freedom: It’s Not What You Think!

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