AMA #18: Cold Therapy Advice, Skin Health Tips, Motivation, Learning Strategies & More

00:00:00.000 | - Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast,

00:00:02.320 | where we discuss science

00:00:03.740 | and science-based tools for everyday life.

00:00:05.980 | Hi, everyone.

00:00:10.920 | I'm delighted to kick off this premium subscriber AMA.

00:00:15.480 | And today I have some great announcements to make,

00:00:18.040 | including the fact that we have now expanded our SciComm,

00:00:22.280 | that is the parent company of the Huberman Lab Podcast.

00:00:24.720 | As some of you know,

00:00:25.560 | we've expanded our SciComm Huberman Lab Podcast philanthropy

00:00:29.820 | to support great, exciting science

00:00:32.500 | that is going to directly relate to mental health,

00:00:34.840 | physical health, and performance tools

00:00:36.740 | in the very near future.

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00:00:51.920 | such as improving mental health, physical health,

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00:00:56.360 | at all major universities.

00:00:58.360 | And we've supported work at Stanford,

00:01:00.300 | Columbia University, University of Oregon coming up.

00:01:03.240 | We're actually supporting some programs

00:01:04.660 | related to student training and teaching

00:01:07.540 | in the realm of neuroscience and happiness.

00:01:10.060 | So some really exciting groundbreaking areas

00:01:12.740 | all made possible thanks to you

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00:01:18.460 | from exceptional donors.

00:01:20.340 | When we started this premium subscription model

00:01:22.780 | to support science,

00:01:24.260 | we had one still have this one absolutely spectacular

00:01:28.620 | dollar for dollar donor match from the tiny foundation.

00:01:30.920 | And now two others have joined in.

00:01:32.720 | So for every dollar that is used from the premium channel

00:01:35.720 | to support these exciting areas of research,

00:01:38.600 | we now have $3 being donated to match that dollar.

00:01:42.760 | So we essentially have a four X what we would otherwise give

00:01:46.560 | in terms of supporting exciting new research on humans

00:01:50.220 | in various laboratories at Stanford and elsewhere.

00:01:53.280 | I'll just touch on a few areas

00:01:54.720 | that we are supporting going forward.

00:01:56.560 | This is not an exhaustive list,

00:01:58.440 | but for instance, we are supporting some exciting work

00:02:01.520 | using deliberate heat exposure

00:02:03.680 | to treat symptoms of depression,

00:02:05.520 | a really interesting and forward-looking approach

00:02:08.600 | to treating depression for which there's already

00:02:10.600 | some really exciting preliminary results.

00:02:13.080 | We are going to be supporting work on goal-setting

00:02:16.280 | at New York University.

00:02:17.880 | This is really exciting work.

00:02:19.540 | Many, many people struggle with goal-setting

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00:02:24.480 | and in their personal life and fitness goals, health goals.

00:02:27.760 | This work directly relates to that.

00:02:29.940 | In other words, you're supporting that work.

00:02:32.120 | We are also supporting work on immune system,

00:02:34.960 | nervous system interactions.

00:02:36.240 | This is an area of science

00:02:37.400 | that's now really progressing quickly

00:02:39.960 | that explores how, especially in babies and kids

00:02:42.480 | and young adults, but also in more mature adults,

00:02:45.520 | interactions between the brain and nervous system

00:02:47.720 | and the immune system can cause all sorts

00:02:50.400 | of interesting susceptibilities,

00:02:51.960 | but also patterns of resilience

00:02:54.400 | in people that do specific things

00:02:55.960 | as it relates to supporting their immune system.

00:02:58.280 | So thanks to you and these dollar-for-dollar

00:03:01.280 | matching donors, we are able together,

00:03:04.760 | but mainly thanks to you,

00:03:05.960 | to support these exciting areas of human research.

00:03:09.240 | And as the data come in,

00:03:11.240 | we are going to relay what the new findings are

00:03:14.040 | and of course, translate those where appropriate

00:03:17.000 | to protocols for improving mental health,

00:03:19.400 | physical health, and performance.

00:03:20.560 | So I want to extend a deep, deep, deep message

00:03:23.240 | of gratitude to you for supporting science,

00:03:26.160 | for supporting new research,

00:03:27.400 | and for supporting the evolution

00:03:29.520 | of new data to serve humanity.

00:03:31.920 | Thank you ever so much.

00:03:33.560 | Okay, so without further ado,

00:03:34.800 | let's get to answering your questions

00:03:36.560 | about mental health, physical health, and performance.

00:03:39.400 | The first question comes from Robert.

00:03:42.560 | And the question is,

00:03:44.320 | is there any way to repair thinning skin as we age?

00:03:47.840 | I'm 77 years old, and in the last few years,

00:03:51.280 | the skin on my arms has gotten noticeably thinner.

00:03:54.200 | Thank you.

00:03:55.040 | Well, thank you for this question.

00:03:56.160 | It's a very timely question,

00:03:57.280 | given that we just had a solo episode.

00:03:59.280 | I did a solo episode

00:04:00.120 | about skin health and appearance on the podcast.

00:04:03.140 | I should mention that that episode was reviewed

00:04:05.480 | by a dermoncologist.

00:04:07.180 | I consulted with different dermatologists

00:04:08.800 | prior to that episode.

00:04:10.720 | And my general sense is that it's been received very well.

00:04:13.460 | There are a few areas

00:04:14.300 | within the skin health and appearance field

00:04:16.520 | that are of controversy, mainly around sunscreens.

00:04:19.020 | I'll just go on record saying that it's very clear

00:04:21.720 | that excessive sun exposure will age skin more rapidly.

00:04:26.720 | Okay, that's just categorically true, okay?

00:04:30.480 | So if anyone's debating that, you know,

00:04:33.240 | there's an issue there, right?

00:04:34.440 | There shouldn't be any debate about that.

00:04:36.160 | It's absolutely true that sunscreen can help.

00:04:38.120 | And there are sort of three major forms of sunscreen.

00:04:40.360 | This relates to how to protect skin from thinning.

00:04:43.000 | One is a physical barrier.

00:04:44.800 | Pretty much nobody disputes a physical barrier,

00:04:46.660 | a hat, a long sleeve shirt, long pants, et cetera.

00:04:50.840 | However, those don't always cover all the areas

00:04:53.080 | of the body that needs sun protection,

00:04:54.640 | such as the ears, the back of the neck,

00:04:56.000 | portions of the face, and so forth.

00:04:58.180 | When it comes to sunscreens, sometimes called sunblocks,

00:05:01.420 | I think there's general agreement that the sunscreens,

00:05:05.080 | and I'll use sunscreen and sunblock interchangeably,

00:05:07.580 | that are mineral-based, that is inorganic,

00:05:10.840 | meaning that the active ingredients are either zinc oxide

00:05:13.920 | or titanium dioxide, or some combination of those,

00:05:16.440 | up to a concentration of 25%,

00:05:19.160 | are generally deemed safe by most all dermatologists.

00:05:22.880 | Now, there are some people who will point out

00:05:25.960 | that there's some controversy

00:05:27.040 | around certain forms of titanium dioxide.

00:05:29.800 | The evidence for that, however, is not conclusive.

00:05:32.560 | I would say that if you're really, really concerned

00:05:34.760 | about any of that,

00:05:36.000 | then just stick with a pure zinc oxide formula up to 25%.

00:05:40.760 | Why would people not use zinc oxide formulas?

00:05:42.840 | Well, they tend to be kind of pasty,

00:05:44.280 | and they don't spread on very easily

00:05:46.120 | compared to some other sunscreen formulas.

00:05:48.220 | Sunscreens that are "chemical-based,"

00:05:52.240 | okay, everyone will say, "Well, everything is a chemical."

00:05:54.280 | Yes, but they're chemical-based.

00:05:56.180 | They use a different approach to blocking or reflecting

00:05:59.120 | or absorbing UV rays.

00:06:01.680 | Those do indeed have some controversy around them.

00:06:05.440 | There are a few studies in which very large amounts

00:06:08.200 | of those chemical-containing sunscreens,

00:06:10.760 | these are chemicals like oxobenzene, et cetera,

00:06:13.180 | applied to the skin,

00:06:14.280 | and they do make it into general circulation.

00:06:17.300 | They do blood draws.

00:06:18.320 | They see that some of these chemicals

00:06:20.080 | can be endocrine disruptors,

00:06:21.600 | leading some people to believe that chemical-based

00:06:24.240 | or sunscreens that contain some of these chemicals

00:06:27.300 | are to be avoided.

00:06:28.140 | Now, I want to be very clear on my stance,

00:06:29.880 | which is if you need sun protection,

00:06:33.000 | and the choice is either to use those types

00:06:35.760 | of sunscreens occasionally versus no sun protection,

00:06:39.400 | I would say probably better to just use them,

00:06:42.000 | but if you are picking a sunscreen, aka sunblock,

00:06:45.280 | where you are going to be using it all summer

00:06:48.080 | or very frequently, well, in that case,

00:06:50.740 | probably best to go with a mineral-based sunscreen

00:06:52.800 | because you'll be doing more frequent exposure application.

00:06:56.000 | Okay?

00:06:56.840 | And then, of course, there are people that will argue

00:06:59.160 | that the chemical-based sunscreens are, in fact, fine,

00:07:01.320 | and if that's your threshold,

00:07:03.280 | meaning that there isn't enough conclusive evidence

00:07:05.740 | that they're problematic, then that's fine.

00:07:07.380 | So those are the three general categories,

00:07:09.000 | but yes, sun will damage the skin.

00:07:10.460 | That doesn't mean you shouldn't get any sun exposure

00:07:13.000 | to your skin.

00:07:13.840 | Turns out that generating vitamin D, of course,

00:07:16.760 | getting your circadian rhythms right,

00:07:18.720 | hormone production, et cetera,

00:07:20.320 | actually requires some exposure to sunlight.

00:07:23.860 | You just don't want to do it

00:07:24.720 | during the highest UV index portions of the day,

00:07:27.540 | like the middle of the day.

00:07:29.280 | You don't want to burn.

00:07:30.320 | However, and please note this,

00:07:32.960 | you do not have to burn in order to put yourself

00:07:35.520 | at a greater risk for skin cancer.

00:07:37.040 | So, you know, avoid burns,

00:07:38.820 | but avoid excessive sun exposure for you as well.

00:07:41.240 | Now, back to Robert's question.

00:07:43.340 | The skin is thinning.

00:07:44.180 | Why is it thinning?

00:07:45.120 | Well, as we get older,

00:07:46.720 | the composition of the proteins in skin,

00:07:50.000 | and there are many different proteins,

00:07:51.640 | but in particular, the collagen and elastins

00:07:54.280 | start to either mutate or weaken.

00:07:57.240 | There can be less production of these.

00:07:59.080 | The skin sometimes loses moisture as well.

00:08:01.560 | And the basic solution to this is the following.

00:08:05.320 | We know that sun protection will help.

00:08:07.600 | We also know, and I covered this in the episode,

00:08:09.960 | that there's some evidence, okay?

00:08:12.000 | I would say it's moderate evidence.

00:08:13.600 | It's not extremely strong.

00:08:14.840 | It's not weak.

00:08:15.900 | That ingestion of collagen proteins, believe it or not,

00:08:18.920 | can improve skin elasticity

00:08:20.920 | and the appearance of smoothness and plumpness,

00:08:23.340 | as it's subjectively rated in these studies.

00:08:26.320 | You might ask yourself, well, how is that?

00:08:27.600 | Is it that you ingest collagen?

00:08:29.380 | And by the way, people typically do this

00:08:30.760 | at dosages of anywhere from,

00:08:32.960 | you'll see as low as five grams per day,

00:08:34.520 | but as high as 30 grams per day of collagen protein.

00:08:36.920 | Typically, there's some vitamin C in there as well,

00:08:38.860 | which seems to help its absorption or utilization.

00:08:41.960 | And they will observe, in these studies,

00:08:45.440 | over time, some improved elasticity,

00:08:48.120 | appearance of smoothness, and plumpness of the skin.

00:08:51.460 | So should you ingest collagen protein?

00:08:53.400 | Well, the results are, again, statistically significant,

00:08:57.040 | but they're not overwhelming in the sense

00:08:59.520 | that you're not going to reverse all the thinning

00:09:02.920 | and what appears to be a local sagging

00:09:06.760 | of the skin completely by ingesting collagen,

00:09:09.840 | but it can help.

00:09:10.920 | Collagen can be ingested through things like bone broth.

00:09:14.600 | By the way, collagen is a composition of not just skin,

00:09:16.960 | but of tendon and ligaments and things of that sort.

00:09:19.840 | Typically, people will get their collagen in powdered form.

00:09:22.680 | It's relatively inexpensive.

00:09:24.640 | There are a lot of different forms of this,

00:09:26.080 | from fish, from animal sources.

00:09:28.760 | There are some plant-based sources.

00:09:31.320 | It's a little unclear whether or not those are as good,

00:09:34.320 | but in any event, five to 30 grams,

00:09:36.980 | typically 15 to 30 grams in most of the studies,

00:09:40.120 | does seem to be moderately effective

00:09:42.360 | in improving skin elasticity, plumpness,

00:09:45.480 | and appearance of smoothness.

00:09:46.760 | Okay, so that's one area.

00:09:48.480 | The other area where there's some interesting research

00:09:50.300 | is red light exposure.

00:09:52.120 | So red light exposure is an interesting one

00:09:54.660 | because, of course, in sunlight,

00:09:56.920 | we have full spectrum light, right?

00:09:58.420 | If you ever put a prism out

00:10:00.480 | and you get a light beam through it,

00:10:01.660 | you're going to get the rainbow, right?

00:10:02.720 | It includes red.

00:10:03.560 | There are long wavelengths,

00:10:04.680 | aka red wavelengths of light.

00:10:08.520 | I pause as I say red wavelengths

00:10:10.540 | because they're actually long wavelengths of light

00:10:12.240 | that appear red.

00:10:13.780 | And it has been shown that light panels

00:10:15.720 | that are emitting red light or near infrared light,

00:10:18.760 | or typically both, can also improve skin appearance

00:10:21.560 | if done for about 10 to 15 minutes per day,

00:10:24.020 | maybe five days per week minimum,

00:10:27.440 | over the course of a few months.

00:10:28.800 | Again, the results in those studies

00:10:30.800 | are statistically significant in many of those studies.

00:10:34.480 | And I would place them in kind of the moderate result,

00:10:37.000 | meaning it's not a striking result,

00:10:38.760 | but you could imagine combining red light with the collagen.

00:10:41.320 | So you start to get perhaps a synergistic effect,

00:10:43.760 | but those studies combining them have not been done.

00:10:46.700 | It does seem that one of the best,

00:10:48.820 | that is dermatologists supported ways

00:10:51.760 | to improve skin appearance is to ingest a retinoid.

00:10:57.520 | Now, these are prescription drugs.

00:10:58.860 | The retinoids do require that, you know,

00:11:01.980 | you work with a qualified dermatologist.

00:11:03.960 | They require that you stay out of the sun

00:11:05.740 | for some period of time

00:11:06.640 | because they can increase sensitivity to the sun,

00:11:10.200 | but they will improve collagen composition.

00:11:12.520 | And that's from the inside out.

00:11:14.720 | So, and by the way,

00:11:15.980 | there are also some different supplements

00:11:18.800 | that one can take that can protect your skin

00:11:21.120 | so that you don't have to put sunscreen on.

00:11:22.600 | It's actually the extract of a vine.

00:11:24.200 | I did not cover that on the skin health

00:11:26.560 | and appearance episode,

00:11:27.760 | but we very soon have a guest, Dr. Tio Silomani,

00:11:31.560 | who is an expert dermatologist oncologist

00:11:34.000 | trained at Stanford and Harvard and UCLA,

00:11:36.480 | who is going to talk about the use of essentially

00:11:39.400 | sun guarding by the ingestion of certain compounds

00:11:42.240 | that change the chemical composition of the skin

00:11:44.600 | from the inside.

00:11:45.440 | So that's very interesting.

00:11:46.720 | He also added another tool for improving skin appearance.

00:11:50.280 | And this is true for the face and for the arms, et cetera,

00:11:53.120 | is the use of laser resurfacing.

00:11:55.840 | Now, this is not a cosmetic procedure

00:11:58.280 | as much as it is a procedure

00:12:00.080 | to remove the very top epidermal layer,

00:12:02.880 | the very, very superficial layer of dead keratinocytes

00:12:06.120 | and other cells of the skin, excuse me,

00:12:09.800 | as a means to reduce cancer risk.

00:12:12.600 | Okay, so he's a dermal oncologist.

00:12:14.520 | It does have the consequence of making skin

00:12:16.240 | look quite a bit younger.

00:12:17.560 | So it does work.

00:12:18.960 | And like anything in the realm of kind of laser resurfacing

00:12:23.280 | and things of that sort,

00:12:24.400 | it does require a period of peeling,

00:12:27.020 | of staying out of sunlight,

00:12:28.560 | because, and being really strict about that

00:12:31.040 | because the skin is more sensitive in the immediate days

00:12:33.280 | and even week after the laser resurfacing.

00:12:36.560 | It was kind of remarkable for me to learn

00:12:38.440 | that this laser resurfacing and the retinoids

00:12:40.920 | are very well supported by dermatologists

00:12:44.400 | as a preventative measure for certain forms,

00:12:46.640 | not all forms, but certain forms of skin cancers,

00:12:49.040 | and that they can dramatically improve

00:12:51.080 | the appearance of skin,

00:12:52.840 | that is to make it look more youthful.

00:12:55.040 | So certainly that would work on the arms as well.

00:12:57.160 | So we've got, we're talking about collagen, red light,

00:12:59.640 | retinoids, laser resurfacing by a qualified dermatologist

00:13:03.440 | or dermoncologist ideally.

00:13:05.440 | And the reason I emphasize the derm part

00:13:07.820 | is there are a lot of people who do kind of plastic

00:13:10.760 | and cosmetic work on skin who are probably very qualified.

00:13:15.280 | And then there's probably some who are not as qualified

00:13:17.520 | and there can be some real issues raised

00:13:19.360 | by using excessive laser power and things of that sort.

00:13:22.720 | This is something I also touched on in the episode.

00:13:25.000 | So those are the four major ones.

00:13:26.560 | And then of course, eating a diet that's low inflammatory.

00:13:29.720 | So limiting fried and highly processed foods, of course,

00:13:34.480 | making sure that you're getting enough essential fatty acids

00:13:36.860 | in the form of either supplementing

00:13:38.360 | or ingesting fatty fish, oils,

00:13:41.240 | all of these sorts of things, fruits and vegetables,

00:13:42.960 | fiber, all the sorts of things

00:13:45.100 | that support healthy skin internally,

00:13:47.440 | some directly, some indirectly

00:13:50.040 | by virtue of the gut microbiome.

00:13:52.000 | So I think that's probably a sufficient answer.

00:13:54.480 | Ah, I will add one last thing for your question, Robert.

00:13:58.220 | It's very clear that the appearance of skin

00:14:00.360 | is also very supported by hydration and moisture.

00:14:04.880 | So applying a regular moisturizer,

00:14:07.400 | a high quality moisturizer regularly,

00:14:09.160 | pick a non-fragranced moisturizer regularly to the arms,

00:14:12.460 | that will help as well.

00:14:13.520 | And then there's some more aggressive approaches

00:14:17.580 | that I'll talk about with Dr. Soleimani,

00:14:19.960 | things like hyaluronic acid and things of that sort

00:14:22.360 | that can help with the kind of plumpness

00:14:23.800 | or moisture of the skin,

00:14:24.680 | but we'll hold off for that episode,

00:14:26.420 | which comes out in a few weeks.

00:14:27.920 | So thanks again for your question.

00:14:29.160 | I like to think that those are some actionable tools

00:14:34.160 | and then depending on people's disposable income,

00:14:37.120 | time and energy they wanted to devote to this,

00:14:39.960 | you could go with the zero cost one, the moderate cost one,

00:14:42.040 | or on the combination of all of them, if you're able to.

00:14:46.440 | Okay, the next question comes from Jen Shaw.

00:14:49.120 | How cold does the water need to be

00:14:51.360 | for cold therapy to be effective?

00:14:52.740 | This is a great question,

00:14:53.760 | especially since at least in the Northern hemisphere,

00:14:55.960 | it's summer and people are doing cold plunges more,

00:14:58.840 | cold showers, such an effective tool

00:15:01.680 | for shifting the state of your mind.

00:15:04.800 | Any debate about deliberate cold exposure to me

00:15:07.680 | that centers around metabolism

00:15:10.040 | or how long the dopamine increase lasts

00:15:13.200 | is kind of a trivial one in my estimation,

00:15:17.240 | because what do we know for sure?

00:15:18.960 | We know that deliberate cold exposure

00:15:21.280 | is very, very low cost or even cost saving

00:15:24.000 | if you use a cold shower,

00:15:25.080 | 'cause you're saving on the heating bill.

00:15:26.200 | We know that if you can afford a cold plunge

00:15:29.020 | or access a safe river or stream or cold plunge, great.

00:15:34.020 | What do we know it does?

00:15:35.360 | It's changes your state, it shifts your state.

00:15:38.320 | It makes you more alert, not just while you're in there,

00:15:40.600 | but in the minutes and certainly up to an hour

00:15:43.620 | or more afterwards.

00:15:45.360 | And let's face it, rarely does it feel good getting in.

00:15:47.960 | Sometimes it feels good being in it

00:15:50.640 | because you're very, very warm before you get in it.

00:15:52.440 | Maybe you came from a run or from the sauna,

00:15:55.120 | but it always feels great getting out

00:15:56.680 | and you always feel much better afterwards

00:15:58.400 | provided you get the right stimulus,

00:16:01.480 | which is really what this question's about.

00:16:03.000 | So what is the right stimulus?

00:16:05.440 | How cold?

00:16:06.700 | Cold enough that you feel a bit uncomfortable

00:16:10.700 | and you want to get out,

00:16:12.160 | but you can safely stay in

00:16:13.880 | and you stay in for a little bit longer.

00:16:15.480 | Now, I know that sounds vague,

00:16:17.440 | but there has never been a systematic study

00:16:20.440 | of exactly how long to stay in at a given temperature

00:16:23.880 | at a given time of day.

00:16:25.120 | Why do I say at a given time of day?

00:16:26.760 | Well, try doing a cold shower first thing in the morning.

00:16:29.480 | It can be pretty rough, pretty jarring.

00:16:31.360 | Try doing it at night when you're tired,

00:16:33.320 | far bigger barrier to getting in that cold shower

00:16:36.640 | or cold plunge, unless you are particularly warm

00:16:39.460 | because you exited the sauna or exceptionally motivated.

00:16:43.880 | So the point is to make the water just cold enough

00:16:46.520 | that you would kind of retract from it,

00:16:47.840 | that you don't want to be in it,

00:16:48.740 | but not so that it's like an icy burn,

00:16:51.480 | so cold that it burns.

00:16:52.880 | This is my opinion.

00:16:54.960 | I like to do deliberate cold exposure in the following way.

00:16:57.660 | I don't even do it for time.

00:16:59.360 | I do it for what I call walls.

00:17:01.640 | So if you're having a hard time

00:17:02.780 | even persuading yourself to get in the thing,

00:17:04.880 | well, then that's one wall you need to get over.

00:17:06.700 | And then if you get over that wall, which hopefully you do,

00:17:08.880 | you get in and you start to breathe very quickly,

00:17:10.800 | just know that if it's very cold, you'll breathe quickly.

00:17:13.800 | And after about 20 seconds,

00:17:15.360 | your ability to think clearly will come back online.

00:17:17.880 | Okay, that's right about the time that most people say

00:17:20.120 | that their hands or feet hurt.

00:17:21.440 | Okay, I do recommend putting your hands under.

00:17:23.240 | It's not necessary, but hands and feet under.

00:17:25.280 | If you're in the shower,

00:17:26.100 | getting your body as small as possible.

00:17:27.400 | Sometimes people will huddle in the shower.

00:17:29.640 | If you really want to make it uncomfortable,

00:17:31.200 | you can raise your arms and get in your armpits,

00:17:34.040 | which is especially cold.

00:17:35.960 | But in any case, it should be uncomfortable.

00:17:39.160 | And then you should stay in until you adapt to that.

00:17:41.520 | Like, okay, so maybe that's 30 seconds.

00:17:43.120 | Maybe it's 10 seconds.

00:17:44.000 | Maybe it's a minute.

00:17:45.180 | And then I suggest getting out at that point.

00:17:47.900 | So I would say anywhere from one to three minutes

00:17:50.040 | for most people, maybe 30 seconds,

00:17:52.800 | if you're really experiencing a lot of mental barriers

00:17:55.520 | to getting in there.

00:17:56.360 | And it should be just cold enough

00:17:58.280 | that you don't want to be in there that you want to get out,

00:18:00.440 | but that you can stay in for that one to three minutes

00:18:02.760 | safely.

00:18:03.840 | Why do I say this?

00:18:04.680 | Well, if you get into very, very cold water,

00:18:06.240 | like 30 degree Fahrenheit water,

00:18:07.980 | and you're and really hyperventilating,

00:18:10.000 | you do run the risk of hypothermia.

00:18:11.760 | You run the risk of putting your, you know,

00:18:13.560 | your cardiovascular system into shock.

00:18:15.260 | I mean, there is a real danger to these things.

00:18:16.740 | And by the way, you should never, ever,

00:18:18.540 | ever do any kind of breath work

00:18:20.640 | prior to getting into deliberate cold, okay?

00:18:23.220 | Prior to getting into very cold water.

00:18:25.540 | Because if you're doing a lot of exhaling,

00:18:27.720 | you're blowing off a lot of carbon dioxide

00:18:29.820 | that will limit your gas reflex.

00:18:31.300 | And there have been people who have done, you know,

00:18:34.020 | cyclic hyperventilation, deep breathing,

00:18:35.860 | then gone into water,

00:18:37.700 | and they didn't realize that they needed to breathe.

00:18:39.940 | They didn't get that gas reflex early enough.

00:18:42.260 | And unfortunately they blacked out and died.

00:18:44.080 | So that's very serious.

00:18:45.400 | So what do I recommend in terms of cold water?

00:18:48.240 | Great to have somebody there.

00:18:49.600 | Ideally, you have somebody there with you

00:18:51.280 | who's not in the water with you, who can monitor you.

00:18:54.360 | If you're talking about cold shower or cold plunge,

00:18:56.360 | and you're talking about, okay,

00:18:57.380 | should I do it at 40 degrees or 45 degrees Fahrenheit

00:19:00.320 | or 50 degrees?

00:19:01.720 | Well, put your hand in and then ask yourself

00:19:04.600 | on a scale of one to 10, how eager am I to get in?

00:19:08.040 | If it's 10, well, then it's probably a little too warm,

00:19:11.440 | or maybe you're just highly motivated.

00:19:13.060 | If it's a five or a six,

00:19:14.980 | and you're kind of feeling some resistance, great,

00:19:16.980 | provided it's not so cold that it's dangerous.

00:19:18.940 | So for me, the typical temperature,

00:19:20.540 | if you just want me to throw one out there,

00:19:21.740 | is somewhere between 45 and 50 degrees.

00:19:24.580 | And a few of my friends who really like it extra cold

00:19:27.080 | or like an ice bath will say, oh, that's weak.

00:19:31.100 | Well, that's what works for me.

00:19:32.500 | I never liked the cold.

00:19:33.700 | I love getting out of it.

00:19:34.740 | Sometimes I like being in there after a little while,

00:19:36.560 | but I never like getting into it.

00:19:38.820 | I much prefer heat and the sauna.

00:19:40.740 | And while we're here,

00:19:41.800 | I'll just mention how hot for the sauna.

00:19:44.000 | Again, same thing,

00:19:45.220 | hot enough that you feel little uncomfortable,

00:19:48.420 | but not so hot that you put yourself in danger.

00:19:50.460 | And here we really have to emphasize danger

00:19:52.260 | because it doesn't take much of a temperature increase

00:19:55.640 | to overheat the brain.

00:19:56.700 | So for me, I'm pretty heat tolerant.

00:19:58.900 | So I'll put the traditional sauna, not infrared sauna,

00:20:01.700 | but traditional sauna to about 210,

00:20:03.660 | and I'll last about 10 to 20 minutes in there maximum.

00:20:06.740 | And then I'll go into the cold plunge and back and forth.

00:20:08.820 | Okay?

00:20:09.640 | If you're going to do the cold plunge for the first time,

00:20:11.080 | maybe start at 55, 60 degrees and stay in a little longer.

00:20:15.080 | If you're going to be more experienced with this

00:20:17.720 | and you're more cold tolerant, try 45, 50.

00:20:20.320 | And then if you're really aggressive

00:20:21.720 | and you want to try getting down into the low 40s or so,

00:20:25.960 | high 30s,

00:20:26.800 | well then make sure you have somebody there

00:20:28.520 | and make sure that you don't force yourself

00:20:30.960 | to do something that's going to cause tissue damage

00:20:33.440 | or cardiovascular damage.

00:20:34.620 | Cold is a very potent stimulus

00:20:36.800 | and you should go with the minimum effective dose,

00:20:38.680 | but you don't have to obsess over the difference

00:20:40.360 | between 58 degrees and 56 degrees or 46 and 48.

00:20:44.720 | I think subjective feel is going to help.

00:20:46.520 | Just make sure that you build in some safeties

00:20:48.600 | so that you can adjust quickly, stay out of danger.

00:20:51.120 | No deep breathing prior to getting in there.

00:20:54.340 | Now, some of you might be asking,

00:20:55.560 | well, what about deep breathing while I'm in there?

00:20:57.040 | That's how I calm myself down.

00:20:58.180 | That's fine,

00:20:59.560 | but no emphasizing the exhales to blow off carbon dioxide.

00:21:03.240 | Certainly no submerging yourself intentionally.

00:21:05.720 | Okay?

00:21:06.560 | So be safe, have fun with it.

00:21:07.760 | Deliberate cold exposure,

00:21:09.160 | I think is a wonderful tool for increasing alertness,

00:21:11.840 | not just while you're in there,

00:21:12.760 | but when you get out.

00:21:13.600 | In fact, that's the best part.

00:21:14.660 | If you ask me, it is getting out.

00:21:16.680 | All right.

00:21:18.600 | Next question is from Katie.

00:21:20.620 | It's about self-motivation.

00:21:22.960 | Do you have any suggestions or steps to self-motivate

00:21:26.320 | to start a new routine?

00:21:28.440 | I do.

00:21:29.520 | I do, I do, I do.

00:21:30.680 | First of all, be very careful who you announce

00:21:33.660 | and what you announce to people

00:21:36.120 | in terms of starting a new routine.

00:21:37.620 | Unless they are going to really be on you

00:21:39.680 | about accountability in general,

00:21:41.360 | talking to people about our goals,

00:21:42.960 | less effective in my opinion,

00:21:45.040 | and then there's some research to support this,

00:21:47.240 | then just simply making the decision,

00:21:49.240 | writing it down, simple, you know,

00:21:52.080 | old school like me, eight and a half by 11 paper,

00:21:54.120 | write down what the goal is.

00:21:55.560 | Give yourself a check for each day that you do it

00:21:57.440 | or the times of day that you do it.

00:21:59.080 | Sometimes signing your signature

00:22:00.520 | as if you have a contract with yourself can help.

00:22:02.640 | These are all different tricks.

00:22:04.640 | Some people will say,

00:22:05.480 | should you reward yourself for completing something?

00:22:07.400 | Sure.

00:22:08.240 | Should you scare yourself into doing something?

00:22:09.940 | Sure.

00:22:10.780 | There's data to support that also.

00:22:11.820 | I covered this in the episode with Emily Balcedas

00:22:14.740 | and about goal seeking and habits

00:22:17.820 | that I did as solo episodes.

00:22:19.400 | We have a newsletter on this.

00:22:21.460 | Here's the deal.

00:22:22.720 | There are going to be multiple barriers

00:22:24.620 | to starting a new routine.

00:22:25.740 | I do believe in incremental approaches to these things.

00:22:29.660 | Right now, I'm working on some bonus chapters of my book.

00:22:32.940 | And while I'm a pretty motivated person,

00:22:35.980 | I'm excited to share that information with the world.

00:22:38.100 | I must say that setting aside time

00:22:41.040 | to do these bonus chapters has been challenging

00:22:42.960 | because I've got a lot else going on.

00:22:45.140 | So rather than tell people that I'm doing that,

00:22:46.980 | I actually have a contract with myself

00:22:48.400 | that I sign each time I complete anywhere

00:22:50.380 | from a 10 to 60 minute writing block.

00:22:52.720 | So a contract with yourself can really help.

00:22:54.660 | I think it's far more valuable than stating to the world

00:22:57.540 | what you're going to do.

00:22:59.280 | I don't know why that tends to work,

00:23:01.860 | but we know why stating to the world

00:23:03.620 | what you're going to do often wears off

00:23:05.260 | because typically, and this reflects both good and bad

00:23:08.300 | things about human behavior and psychology,

00:23:10.220 | typically people will support you by saying,

00:23:12.560 | "Great, you're going to do great.

00:23:14.020 | The book's going to be great."

00:23:14.940 | Or, "Your new exercise program is going to be great.

00:23:16.980 | You're going to do."

00:23:17.820 | And they're just supporting you, supporting you,

00:23:18.820 | supporting you.

00:23:19.940 | And that support turns out to be sufficient

00:23:22.780 | to create this mindset that you could do it at any point

00:23:26.100 | where you've got the support you need.

00:23:27.340 | Sometimes a little bit of additional friction,

00:23:29.920 | what Tim Ferriss would call fear setting, is a good idea.

00:23:32.100 | You think about worst outcomes if you don't do the thing.

00:23:34.700 | But let's face it, you can't lie to yourself and believe it.

00:23:38.300 | So if you know that not doing the thing

00:23:39.900 | isn't going to markedly change your life for the worse,

00:23:42.540 | well, in that case, you need some additional support.

00:23:45.460 | You need some additional motivation.

00:23:46.820 | So you could use all sorts of tools and protocols

00:23:49.280 | like a cold shower to increase epinephrine,

00:23:51.480 | adrenaline, and dopamine,

00:23:52.620 | and get more motivated and then do something.

00:23:54.980 | You could, and I think this is probably the best tool

00:23:57.460 | anyone could apply, which would be to put away your phone,

00:24:00.420 | turn it off, put it in the other room.

00:24:01.980 | I now have a box for my phone that I've dedicated

00:24:04.180 | to keeping my phone in when I'm busy doing

00:24:06.260 | other types of work for which the presence of the phone

00:24:09.420 | would be an intrusion, it would limit my work output.

00:24:13.020 | I do think that the contract with self

00:24:14.780 | is going to be the best way.

00:24:15.660 | You say, I am going to do 30 minutes of whatever,

00:24:19.580 | resistance training three times a week,

00:24:21.960 | and then you're going to sign off by the end of the week.

00:24:23.420 | And when you complete each one,

00:24:24.500 | that's your reward to yourself that you were accountable.

00:24:26.700 | There's no external reward.

00:24:28.740 | Why do I say this?

00:24:29.820 | The work itself should become the reward.

00:24:32.200 | We know this from all the work on growth mindset

00:24:34.820 | that we've talked about, Carol Dweck's wonderful work,

00:24:37.060 | and David Yeager's wonderful work.

00:24:38.580 | He was a guest on the podcast.

00:24:39.740 | I've done solo episodes about their work

00:24:41.700 | about growth mindset,

00:24:43.220 | that ultimately the work becoming the reward

00:24:45.900 | is how you're going to sustain motivation over time.

00:24:48.820 | So when you sign off that you did the work

00:24:50.500 | and that's the reward,

00:24:52.060 | well, then there's this kind of cyclical relationship

00:24:55.740 | between what you've promised yourself you would do,

00:24:59.220 | what you did, and rewarding yourself for the work.

00:25:01.840 | No additional external reward, the work becomes a reward.

00:25:05.580 | So I like the idea of being a bit of a,

00:25:07.780 | what we would call closed loop system on motivation,

00:25:11.220 | rather than going out and seeking

00:25:12.940 | excessive support from others.

00:25:15.660 | And I say this not to isolate,

00:25:17.300 | I encourage healthy relationships, et cetera.

00:25:19.480 | But if we start seeking external validation or pressure

00:25:23.460 | in order to do what we know we want to do

00:25:25.920 | or would love to be able to do without external support,

00:25:29.420 | we limit ourselves.

00:25:30.680 | And when that support isn't there,

00:25:31.860 | we tend to be far less productive

00:25:35.360 | and move toward our goals far less well.

00:25:38.100 | So it's an internal process of reshaping your psychology.

00:25:41.540 | There's also some deeper psychology around this stuff

00:25:43.780 | of agency and what you feel you deserve.

00:25:46.940 | You deserve, I'll tell you this,

00:25:48.760 | 'cause I believe everyone deserves

00:25:50.680 | to be able to better themselves

00:25:52.520 | through these kinds of self-directed actions.

00:25:54.940 | And I also like the idea of a closed loop

00:25:57.420 | because you can be really honest with yourself

00:25:59.000 | at the end of a week.

00:25:59.840 | Did you do your three sessions?

00:26:01.340 | Did you sign off three times?

00:26:03.120 | Keeping some of that reward system and validation internal

00:26:07.820 | really helps you become stronger

00:26:09.940 | also to be able to support other people

00:26:11.860 | if they need your support.

00:26:12.900 | Whereas if you have a committee of people that you rely on,

00:26:16.260 | you know, that you need to hear from,

00:26:17.340 | you need their support in order to be motivated.

00:26:20.440 | While that can be great, coaches can be great

00:26:22.460 | and support systems are wonderful.

00:26:24.300 | I don't think it's nearly as effective

00:26:26.540 | as being your own committee,

00:26:29.840 | your own chair and secretary in this case,

00:26:34.080 | and member of your own committee.

00:26:35.800 | And then of course, seek social support

00:26:38.760 | and reinforcement for other areas of your life that you need

00:26:41.380 | and be a source of social support,

00:26:43.120 | but also encourage people to be in this kind of

00:26:45.920 | self-cyclical loop of motivation

00:26:50.160 | and to really impart the principles of growth mindset,

00:26:53.480 | which is really what we're talking about.

00:26:54.720 | Make the effort, the reward.

00:26:56.400 | Okay, I'm going to take a sip of tea here.

00:27:01.800 | Lou asks, what can you do

00:27:06.560 | if you're not getting enough rapid eye movement sleep?

00:27:09.140 | What are the consequences?

00:27:10.120 | Okay, so to remind everybody,

00:27:11.200 | rapid eye movement sleep is more enriched

00:27:12.880 | towards the end of the night.

00:27:14.060 | It differs from slow wave sleep or deep sleep.

00:27:16.940 | Tends to be dream rich sleep.

00:27:19.340 | The dreams tend to be more elaborate.

00:27:20.880 | You also dream during deep sleep, during slow wave sleep,

00:27:24.820 | but your dreams are far more emotionally laden

00:27:28.260 | during rapid eye movement sleep, more vivid, et cetera.

00:27:31.240 | And rapid eye movement sleep is associated with learning.

00:27:36.240 | So getting enough rapid eye movement sleep,

00:27:38.500 | especially on the first night

00:27:39.620 | after trying to learn something is important.

00:27:42.260 | Rapid eye movement sleep is also important

00:27:44.460 | for removing the emotional load of previous day

00:27:48.020 | and previous days experiences.

00:27:49.860 | So it's its own form of trauma therapy.

00:27:52.080 | During rapid eye movement sleep,

00:27:53.620 | your body is essentially incapable of releasing adrenaline.

00:27:56.200 | So you can have these very intense

00:27:57.420 | emotional experiences in your mind.

00:27:59.280 | Without adrenaline in your body,

00:28:00.580 | you're actually paralyzed during rapid eye movement sleep.

00:28:02.540 | It's a healthy paralysis, sleep atonia it's called.

00:28:06.220 | How do you get more REM sleep?

00:28:08.200 | Well, one of the best ways to get more REM sleep

00:28:10.340 | is to simply add anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 minutes

00:28:13.940 | to your sleep schedule,

00:28:15.180 | adding that 10 to 30 minutes in the morning.

00:28:18.220 | Most people can't do that, however.

00:28:20.220 | Another way to increase the amount

00:28:22.340 | of rapid eye movement sleep that you get

00:28:24.340 | is to get a bigger surge of epinephrine of adrenaline

00:28:28.580 | in the early day prior to that sleep.

00:28:31.520 | So this is a great reason to do deliberate cold exposure

00:28:34.180 | in your shower in the morning.

00:28:36.220 | You could also get it through exercise.

00:28:38.840 | So exercising early in the morning,

00:28:40.500 | and then we're talking about the rapid eye movement sleep

00:28:42.220 | that occurs the very next, that same night, okay?

00:28:45.940 | So we're talking about a Monday morning

00:28:47.160 | where you exercise and get deliberate cold exposure.

00:28:49.520 | By the way, it is true that if you do deliberate

00:28:51.980 | cold exposure after resistance training,

00:28:53.940 | you can limit some of the strength

00:28:55.300 | and hypertrophy increases or adaptations,

00:28:57.860 | but at other times it seems to be fine.

00:28:59.900 | And there is zero evidence that taking a cold shower

00:29:02.340 | after resistance training is going to limit

00:29:04.380 | strength or hypertrophy adaptation.

00:29:06.340 | So you don't have to be too paranoid

00:29:07.780 | about deliberate cold exposure.

00:29:09.780 | In fact, I think the best recommendation I can make

00:29:11.820 | about deliberate cold exposure is neither be too paranoid

00:29:14.660 | nor too obsessive about it.

00:29:17.340 | So spiking your adrenaline a bit

00:29:19.640 | in the early part of the day with exercise

00:29:21.760 | and or deliberate cold exposure can help get

00:29:24.000 | more rapid eye movement sleep later that night.

00:29:27.240 | Sleeping in a bit, even 10 minutes more going back to sleep.

00:29:30.500 | This is a case for hitting the snooze.

00:29:31.960 | You go back to sleep, maybe even two or three times.

00:29:34.800 | Of course, better to just sleep the whole way through

00:29:37.980 | until maximum long night is achieved,

00:29:41.960 | long night of sleep that is.

00:29:43.440 | If you wake up and you're not rested enough,

00:29:45.680 | or if you're looking at your sleep score

00:29:47.100 | and you don't see enough rapid eye movement sleep,

00:29:49.400 | the other thing you can do is a non-sleep deep rest protocol,

00:29:52.300 | which by the way, Matt Walker's laboratory

00:29:54.580 | and I are gearing up to do some studies

00:29:57.540 | on non-sleep deep rest and how it impacts the brain

00:30:00.580 | specifically as opposed,

00:30:01.780 | and this has been done in other studies,

00:30:03.380 | but not with modern methods in a while.

00:30:05.700 | So we're excited about that.

00:30:08.500 | So do a 10 to 30 minute or 10 or 20 minute

00:30:12.300 | non-sleep deep rest protocol.

00:30:13.780 | Those are easy to find.

00:30:14.840 | I have zero cost ones that are on YouTube.

00:30:16.900 | You simply put NSDR Huberman.

00:30:19.620 | There's a 10 minute one, a 20 minute one.

00:30:21.780 | We have them in Spotify format.

00:30:23.340 | There's actually a link on the hubermanlab.com webpage

00:30:27.340 | that links out to audio format

00:30:28.780 | so that you don't have to go onto YouTube.

00:30:30.180 | If you don't want to do that,

00:30:31.020 | you can download that script from Spotify.

00:30:34.380 | And that way you have it in your phone.

00:30:36.060 | You don't need to even have internet access.

00:30:37.980 | So if you're camping or you're out of internet access,

00:30:41.300 | you can still do that non-sleep deep rest.

00:30:42.980 | And then if you prefer a female voice, Kelly Boyes,

00:30:45.120 | B-O-Y-S has some wonderful NSDR and Yoga Nidra scripts

00:30:49.060 | on YouTube and has her own.

00:30:51.460 | She also is on the waking up app doing NSDR and Yoga Nidra.

00:30:55.460 | So I would do that first thing in the morning

00:30:56.980 | to get a bit more REM like rest

00:30:59.860 | is what we'll call it until the data are in.

00:31:02.260 | REM like rest puts the brain into this very interesting

00:31:05.380 | state with body completely still, right?

00:31:07.740 | Similar to sleep atonia that you observe in REM sleep

00:31:11.940 | and mind active, very similar to REM sleep.

00:31:14.460 | This is actually our hypothesis,

00:31:16.560 | which is that non-sleep deep rest mimics

00:31:19.320 | rapid eye movement sleep.

00:31:20.380 | But that hypothesis still needs to be tested formally.

00:31:23.100 | And Dr. Walker and I are going to do that.

00:31:25.460 | So that's another way to get more REM sleep.

00:31:27.580 | The other way, and this is kind of a tongue in cheek answer

00:31:30.760 | is if you don't get enough REM sleep on one night,

00:31:34.180 | you can be sure that if you allow yourself

00:31:36.620 | sufficient sleep the next night,

00:31:38.760 | you'll get more REM sleep than you normally would anyway,

00:31:42.320 | had you slept well the previous night.

00:31:44.920 | What does all that mean?

00:31:46.200 | Means that there's something called the REM sleep rebound.

00:31:48.840 | If you don't sleep enough or you don't get enough REM sleep

00:31:51.640 | on say Monday night, Tuesday night, when you go to sleep,

00:31:55.080 | provided you didn't blitz your system with caffeine,

00:31:57.320 | you're not ingesting anything that would disrupt

00:32:00.040 | your REM sleep, such as caffeine late in the day.

00:32:03.080 | Well, or alcohol,

00:32:04.880 | which will disrupt REM sleep dramatically.

00:32:07.380 | Well, then you will get more REM sleep on Tuesday night.

00:32:11.460 | Okay, there's a REM compensation.

00:32:13.480 | Anyone that's tracked their sleep has observed this.

00:32:17.080 | So that's another way.

00:32:19.040 | Right now, there's no clear pharmacology

00:32:22.640 | to induce more REM sleep, unfortunately.

00:32:25.180 | There are some tools to increase slow-wave sleep,

00:32:28.720 | deep sleep pharmacologically.

00:32:30.960 | Some of the growth hormone secretogogs

00:32:32.600 | that are in common peptides will do that.

00:32:35.320 | But right now, there doesn't seem to be any pharmacology

00:32:38.140 | directed specifically at increasing REM sleep.

00:32:41.700 | There are a few, these go by brand names like Quivivic

00:32:45.060 | and things like that, that are thought to do this,

00:32:46.820 | but it's still somewhat debated as to whether or not

00:32:49.740 | they specifically increase REM sleep.

00:32:51.800 | Danielle says, "The top three most impactful things

00:32:57.140 | schools could do to raise student capacity for learning."

00:32:59.780 | What a great question.

00:33:01.540 | Well, I'll add a fourth because I don't want to,

00:33:05.060 | I don't want to try and wriggle out of the question

00:33:06.760 | by just saying sleep again.

00:33:08.400 | But I think trying to get kids to sleep enough

00:33:13.400 | is going to be key.

00:33:14.360 | So that means off phones and iPads

00:33:15.960 | in the middle of the night.

00:33:16.800 | That means starting school a little bit later.

00:33:18.800 | I don't know if that's ever going to work,

00:33:20.300 | but that would be a marvelous thing for learning

00:33:22.120 | because as you know, or we all should know or remember,

00:33:26.940 | neuroplasticity and learning is triggered

00:33:30.480 | by focused attention, which is supported

00:33:32.320 | by having slept well the night before.

00:33:33.780 | But the actual rewiring of neural connections

00:33:36.160 | occurs when?

00:33:37.220 | It occurs during sleep.

00:33:39.080 | It occurs during deep sleep and rapid eye movement sleep.

00:33:42.120 | That's when the reorganization of neural connections occurs,

00:33:45.080 | the strengthening of particular synapses,

00:33:47.400 | the weakening of other synapses.

00:33:49.080 | And there's a small, small, small,

00:33:52.060 | perhaps infinitesimally small percentage of neuroplasticity

00:33:56.240 | that is the consequence of the addition of new neurons.

00:33:59.160 | So most neuroplasticity is not that,

00:34:01.320 | most neuroplasticity is the reorganization

00:34:04.080 | of existing neural connections.

00:34:06.180 | But nonetheless, that happens during sleep.

00:34:09.080 | So getting kids to sleep enough, nap enough,

00:34:12.000 | sleep late if they need to is actually a great thing.

00:34:15.020 | But who knows if schools will change their protocols?

00:34:17.220 | What else can we do?

00:34:18.220 | What can schools do?

00:34:19.340 | Well, I'm a big fan, as you know, of non-sleep deep rest.

00:34:23.220 | Wouldn't it be wonderful if in every school

00:34:25.700 | that started the day with a five minute meditation

00:34:28.420 | or non-sleep deep rest,

00:34:29.940 | where kids would do some quiet focused breathing,

00:34:33.620 | bringing their attention back to their breathing,

00:34:35.700 | bringing their attention back to the spot

00:34:37.020 | just behind their forehead,

00:34:39.020 | just before beginning a learning session.

00:34:40.620 | Why? Why?

00:34:41.660 | Is it about mysticism? No.

00:34:43.520 | Is it about trying to understand consciousness? No.

00:34:46.380 | It's about a study done by Wendy Suzuki's Laboratory

00:34:49.540 | at New York University.

00:34:51.740 | She's their current Dean of Letters and Science

00:34:55.540 | as far as I know.

00:34:57.000 | She's a neuroscientist.

00:34:58.680 | She has a spectacular record

00:34:59.980 | in the field of neuroscience and psychology.

00:35:02.460 | And her laboratory showed

00:35:03.520 | that even a very brief meditation session

00:35:05.700 | in that particular study, it was about 13 minutes per day,

00:35:09.340 | can significantly improve working memory,

00:35:11.380 | which is the ability to keep information online

00:35:15.140 | in one's mind active.

00:35:17.540 | It can increase other forms of memory.

00:35:20.780 | It can increase focus.

00:35:21.940 | It can decrease stress.

00:35:23.740 | And it is a zero cost tool.

00:35:26.420 | So I think, unfortunately,

00:35:28.540 | we think of meditation as a mystical tool

00:35:32.660 | to explore consciousness, and it can be.

00:35:35.260 | But if you think about it,

00:35:36.420 | exercise can also be an ultra marathon

00:35:38.620 | to run 242 miles or something to win a trophy,

00:35:41.860 | or it can be something to improve cardiovascular health.

00:35:44.940 | So similarly, meditation is just a perceptual exercise.

00:35:48.220 | I think that if kids learn

00:35:49.380 | that they can bring their perception internally

00:35:51.420 | to what we call interoception,

00:35:53.420 | as opposed to looking at things externally, exteroception,

00:35:56.380 | understand that they have some control,

00:35:58.020 | some regulation over their focus and attention,

00:36:00.080 | bringing their attention back to them,

00:36:03.300 | to interoception, whenever it drifts,

00:36:06.100 | well, then they get better at focus over time,

00:36:08.700 | and it improves learning in the long-term,

00:36:11.220 | but also in the bout of learning

00:36:12.600 | that they go into immediately after.

00:36:14.380 | So, you know, if I had a magic wand,

00:36:16.700 | every classroom would begin a session of learning

00:36:19.740 | with five minutes or maybe even three minutes

00:36:22.340 | of what is typically known as third eye

00:36:25.660 | or focused meditation with no interest in mysticism,

00:36:30.460 | pure interest in improving the bout of learning.

00:36:33.660 | I think another thing that a school should include

00:36:36.660 | to increase capacity for learning

00:36:39.220 | is they should include micro gaps.

00:36:43.420 | So we know that if you take gaps in information delivery,

00:36:47.780 | so for instance, if I were to just pause now

00:36:53.660 | and then continue, it seems like kind of an odd interruption

00:36:57.080 | and then every once in a while at random,

00:36:58.740 | introduce a short 10 second pause or so,

00:37:01.260 | what do we know happens?

00:37:02.320 | We know based on now a number of different

00:37:04.940 | really high quality papers

00:37:06.300 | that have looked at musical learning,

00:37:07.740 | mathematical learning, concept learning,

00:37:10.260 | physical skill learning, that those little micro gaps

00:37:13.660 | allow for very rapid replay

00:37:15.620 | of the information that's relevant,

00:37:17.380 | for whatever reason in reverse in the brain,

00:37:21.180 | very quickly within the hippocampus

00:37:23.260 | and the neocortex areas of the brain,

00:37:25.140 | critical for encoding and storage of memories.

00:37:28.940 | And these little micro gaps

00:37:30.380 | and the rapid replay of the information

00:37:32.620 | one is trying to learn at 20 to 30 times the normal rate

00:37:35.660 | increases the number of repetitions.

00:37:37.380 | You're basically getting 30 repetitions for doing nothing.

00:37:40.340 | This is exactly what happens in what?

00:37:42.920 | In rapid eye movement sleep.

00:37:44.340 | When you learn something,

00:37:45.180 | like maybe you learned something today

00:37:46.980 | in our discussion thus far and you go to sleep at night,

00:37:50.220 | there's a very strong chance

00:37:51.460 | that if we were to record from your brain,

00:37:53.900 | we would see that the same areas of your brain

00:37:56.220 | that were active during specific portions

00:37:58.500 | of this discussion,

00:37:59.620 | which arguably is more of a lecture than a discussion,

00:38:03.340 | but those brain areas would repeat at 20 to 30 times speed

00:38:07.980 | within a very compressed time.

00:38:09.940 | And then you'd go back to a different pattern

00:38:12.300 | of brain activity.

00:38:13.140 | What is going on?

00:38:13.960 | Well, in rapid eye movement sleep, the brain is rehearsing.

00:38:16.740 | It's generating repetitions of certain forms of behavior

00:38:20.300 | and certain forms of learning of cognitive information.

00:38:24.800 | At high speed, you're generating more repetitions.

00:38:26.900 | And this is critical for the learning process.

00:38:28.840 | We know this from animal studies.

00:38:30.000 | We now know this from human studies as well.

00:38:32.200 | So if in the classroom teachers would just say,

00:38:34.980 | okay, we just finished discussing, I don't know,

00:38:37.060 | the cell cycle or the Krebs cycle.

00:38:38.900 | Now let's take a moment.

00:38:40.100 | And students are not checking their phone at that time

00:38:46.980 | or reviewing the material at that time.

00:38:48.280 | They just got 20 to 30 repetitions of,

00:38:50.940 | and by the way, at a subconscious level,

00:38:52.740 | they're not aware of it,

00:38:53.860 | of the material they had just been exposed to.

00:38:56.620 | And so you introduce these, excuse me, at random.

00:39:00.780 | You could do anywhere from one to five of these per hour.

00:39:03.280 | You could do as many as 10 per hour.

00:39:04.580 | You're just introducing these brief micro rest intervals.

00:39:07.180 | There's a beautiful literature to support this.

00:39:09.760 | And the third thing, it's very important,

00:39:12.620 | is I think it's very, very clear that physical activity,

00:39:16.660 | in particular, cardiovascular training,

00:39:18.880 | any kind of physical activity, running, jogging,

00:39:21.240 | swimming, et cetera, is going to facilitate learning,

00:39:23.360 | especially if the learning is done immediately

00:39:25.740 | after that activity.

00:39:27.320 | That's right, if the learning is done immediately

00:39:28.720 | after the activity, and that's probably related

00:39:31.400 | to the increase in the various catecholamines,

00:39:33.560 | dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine

00:39:35.120 | associated with physical activity,

00:39:36.560 | then making coding of new memories

00:39:38.000 | and coding of new information more readily accessible.

00:39:41.960 | So this is a call for including PE class

00:39:45.600 | or even just some basic movement,

00:39:47.920 | even walks or things of that sort.

00:39:49.720 | We can look at this through the other lens

00:39:52.300 | and say, what are the worst things for learning?

00:39:54.300 | Terrible sleep, being delivered information

00:39:58.100 | like through a fire hose with no pauses.

00:39:59.860 | And forgive me if from time to time, I tend to do that.

00:40:01.980 | Maybe I should start introducing micro gaps

00:40:03.960 | into the podcast, but you can always just pause it,

00:40:06.640 | go back to it.

00:40:07.480 | I feel like real life provides that.

00:40:09.660 | There is the strong, strong incentive

00:40:12.340 | for including some physical movement each day.

00:40:14.700 | And then I suppose if we were going to include another one,

00:40:17.540 | we'd say that kids and teachers should have a discussion

00:40:22.100 | about optimal learning protocols.

00:40:23.740 | They should understand where their thresholds are

00:40:26.140 | after which their attention falls off.

00:40:27.940 | There's really no point in trying to learn information

00:40:30.120 | if you're not focused on what you're trying to learn.

00:40:31.820 | And then there's a whole discussion to be had about caffeine.

00:40:34.420 | There's a whole discussion to be had about nutrition

00:40:36.180 | as it relates to maintaining alertness throughout the day.

00:40:39.580 | Anyone that's ever gone into a lecture on a college campus

00:40:42.100 | or a high school or elementary school, even after lunch,

00:40:45.420 | you'll see that people's brains are just kind of idling

00:40:48.060 | there in the background.

00:40:48.940 | It's the rare student that's wrapped with attention

00:40:50.940 | even after a big lunch, even after running around outside.

00:40:54.820 | So structuring of the day properly is essential.

00:40:57.940 | And of course, get that sleep at night.

00:41:00.980 | Okay, Alec, could you share your thoughts

00:41:04.300 | on how Shilajit might influence cognitive function

00:41:06.840 | and physical health,

00:41:07.680 | specifically its impact to boost testosterone?

00:41:09.860 | I get a lot of questions about Shilajit.

00:41:11.380 | Shilajit is a mineral pitch from the Himalayas.

00:41:15.200 | There are a lot of fake versions out there,

00:41:16.900 | but the authentic versions are basically,

00:41:18.900 | this is stuff that basically they take soil and grasses

00:41:23.460 | and a bunch of things and they mash it down

00:41:25.180 | and they take the extract

00:41:26.300 | and they create this stuff called Shilajit,

00:41:27.940 | which sometimes is sold as a thick paste,

00:41:30.340 | kind of a tar-like paste.

00:41:31.420 | Sometimes it's in capsules.

00:41:33.060 | What do we know about Shilajit?

00:41:34.660 | Shilajit contains minerals that are thought to augment

00:41:40.080 | some hormone pathways.

00:41:41.400 | And that's why people have argued,

00:41:43.240 | and it's marketed that Shilajit increases vitality.

00:41:46.680 | It's been argued that Shilajit can increase testosterone,

00:41:49.160 | maybe estrogen as well.

00:41:50.520 | There are actually a few studies on this

00:41:52.280 | that are covered at examine.com.

00:41:53.920 | I'm going to bring up one just now.

00:41:55.920 | This, we can induce a little gap effect here

00:41:58.120 | if there's a pause.

00:41:59.640 | There is some data, not a ton,

00:42:02.200 | but there's some data that support the use of Shilajit

00:42:05.080 | for testosterone increase.

00:42:06.920 | But I would place it on the low end

00:42:09.800 | of the effectiveness scale

00:42:10.920 | in terms of things to increase testosterone.

00:42:12.920 | And then of course, the real question is,

00:42:14.120 | are you getting enough authentic Shilajit

00:42:16.520 | to really have an effect?

00:42:17.960 | The dosaging on this is very mysterious.

00:42:20.520 | In other words, I personally wouldn't place Shilajit

00:42:22.800 | high on any list of ways to generate hormone support.

00:42:26.420 | There are far better ways.

00:42:27.720 | I mean, the best ways of course,

00:42:28.760 | are to make sure that your body fat percentage

00:42:30.600 | is neither too high nor too low, okay?

00:42:33.800 | The people who are overweight, who are obese,

00:42:36.600 | who lose body fat,

00:42:37.520 | will improve their hormone profiles dramatically.

00:42:40.040 | However, people who are already very lean,

00:42:42.340 | who get excessively lean,

00:42:43.580 | you can disrupt testosterone levels dramatically.

00:42:46.120 | And by the way,

00:42:46.960 | anytime there's a discussion about testosterone,

00:42:48.880 | I want to remind that both men and women have testosterone.

00:42:51.720 | It's important in both men and women.

00:42:53.040 | Yes, it's related to libido,

00:42:54.280 | but having sufficiently high levels of estrogen

00:42:56.560 | in both men and women is also critical for libido.

00:42:59.960 | People that take drugs like an astrozole

00:43:02.660 | to disrupt the rheumatase conversion of testosterone

00:43:06.480 | into estrogen can sometimes find themselves

00:43:08.880 | with reduced libido.

00:43:11.000 | And that's because estrogen is critical for libido

00:43:13.640 | in men and women as is testosterone.

00:43:15.880 | So it's all about the ratios.

00:43:17.420 | Going back to Shilajit,

00:43:19.200 | let's look at the human effect matrix on Shilajit.

00:43:22.380 | There is one study here with 60 participants

00:43:24.920 | that cites a small increase,

00:43:26.920 | small but statistically significant increase

00:43:29.680 | in follicle stimulating hormone, FSH,

00:43:32.240 | which in females is critical, in males is critical.

00:43:35.360 | And the extent of the increase is just very small.

00:43:40.000 | So it's not clear that it would be worth taking Shilajit

00:43:44.080 | given the risks and the cost.

00:43:46.000 | It depends on how aggressive you are

00:43:47.440 | in trying to increase testosterone.

00:43:49.200 | Certainly there are other ways.

00:43:51.440 | Sperm quality, one study showing a small improvement

00:43:54.480 | in sperm quality.

00:43:55.320 | One study of 60 participants showing a small increase

00:43:59.120 | in testosterone.

00:44:00.340 | So, and then of course,

00:44:02.560 | there's a bunch of other things that have been looked at.

00:44:05.240 | The perhaps most impressive effect

00:44:07.060 | is a reduction in some LDLs.

00:44:09.080 | But again, even though I say the most impressive,

00:44:12.000 | it's still a small effect.

00:44:13.120 | So I wouldn't place Shilajit high on the list

00:44:15.260 | of supplements to consider.

00:44:16.920 | Always, always, always before talking about supplements,

00:44:19.360 | you want to get your nutrition right.

00:44:20.520 | I've talked about how to do this.

00:44:21.880 | You want to be exercising, but not overtraining.

00:44:24.280 | You want to do both resistance training

00:44:25.840 | and cardiovascular training,

00:44:26.900 | maybe on the same day or different days,

00:44:28.240 | whatever your schedule allows.

00:44:29.880 | You want to make sure you get enough sleep at night.

00:44:31.880 | If you want to increase your testosterone significantly,

00:44:34.200 | get an extra 30 to 60 minutes of sleep each night.

00:44:37.640 | Even a 20 minute increase in rapid eye movement sleep

00:44:39.820 | is going to serve your testosterone

00:44:41.160 | far better than taking Shilajit.

00:44:43.160 | Will taking Shilajit increase your vitality?

00:44:46.320 | You know, probably increase your energy a bit.

00:44:47.860 | You might increase libido a bit.

00:44:49.380 | You have to ask yourself, is it transient?

00:44:51.780 | Is that effect transient?

00:44:52.900 | Is it directly related to testosterone increases?

00:44:55.200 | Probably not.

00:44:56.040 | It's probably directly related

00:44:57.040 | to follicle stimulating hormone increases.

00:44:59.180 | And for women who have a menstrual cycle that is,

00:45:02.140 | you know, obviously going to lead

00:45:03.820 | to different constellations of hormones,

00:45:05.880 | markedly different constellations of hormones,

00:45:08.060 | such as follicle stimulating hormone,

00:45:10.180 | estrogen, progestins, et cetera,

00:45:12.040 | different times throughout the cycle,

00:45:13.740 | taking something like Shilajit,

00:45:15.260 | because it can stimulate FSH release,

00:45:17.620 | can potentially disrupt that.

00:45:18.840 | If you're a male who's doing everything else,

00:45:21.460 | like you're exercising, you're sleeping well,

00:45:24.040 | your nutrition is locked in,

00:45:27.420 | you are taking creatine and fish oil,

00:45:30.320 | you're taking care of your gut microbiome,

00:45:31.820 | and you want to experiment with Shilajit,

00:45:33.740 | well, by all means, find a reliable source of Shilajit.

00:45:37.860 | They are out there.

00:45:38.680 | Just look for one that has some testing for authenticity.

00:45:43.580 | And then you're likely to be able to see

00:45:46.920 | within about a week or so,

00:45:48.180 | if it leads to a significant increase in vitality, libido,

00:45:51.420 | whatever it is that you're seeking.

00:45:52.560 | But I wouldn't place Shilajit high

00:45:54.100 | on the list of things to pursue.

00:45:56.340 | And I will also say, having tried Shilajit,

00:45:58.860 | it's pretty messy.

00:45:59.900 | It's hard to get the dosaging right in the tar form.

00:46:02.500 | The capsules make it a little bit easier.

00:46:05.900 | If you wanted to explore other ways to augment testosterone

00:46:08.640 | that have a bit more data to support them,

00:46:10.820 | I would say things like Tonga Ali,

00:46:12.560 | which may have its effects on increasing libido

00:46:14.940 | in both men and women by virtue of increasing testosterone

00:46:17.340 | or maybe free testosterone, more likely,

00:46:19.700 | it's an increase in luteinizing hormone in that case,

00:46:22.420 | which is upstream of testosterone.

00:46:24.060 | So this can all get into some pretty extended discussions

00:46:28.220 | about biochemical pathways and hormone pathways.

00:46:30.340 | I did this on the episode

00:46:32.900 | about optimizing testosterone and estrogen

00:46:34.840 | as a solo episode that I also covered

00:46:37.260 | with Dr. Kyle Gillette and with Dr. Peter Attia.

00:46:40.260 | By the way, if you go to hubermanlab.com

00:46:42.020 | and you put in any combination of search items,

00:46:44.620 | if you put, for instance, Shilajit testosterone,

00:46:47.100 | it will take you to the timestamp that covers that.

00:46:48.840 | If you put Tonga Ali testosterone or libido,

00:46:52.100 | Tonga Ali will take you to the timestamps

00:46:53.780 | across different episodes directly to those timestamps

00:46:57.140 | so that you don't have to listen to entire episodes

00:46:58.820 | or go searching for this information.

00:47:00.200 | It's all there.

00:47:01.040 | We also have an AI engine at hubermanlab.com

00:47:03.500 | that allows you to do searches on this sort of thing.

00:47:05.660 | But of course, I'm happy to talk to you about it as well.

00:47:07.400 | I'm delighted to.

00:47:08.460 | So again, if you have the budget

00:47:09.980 | and you're somebody who likes to experiment,

00:47:11.740 | maybe Shilajit is the right thing for you.

00:47:14.180 | Find a good brand.

00:47:15.020 | It shouldn't be hard to distinguish the real brands.

00:47:18.160 | They always have a label of authentication on there.

00:47:22.100 | And if you're going to already be doing

00:47:25.100 | everything else right behaviorally

00:47:26.900 | and you want to explore supplementation

00:47:29.340 | for improving testosterone, vitality, et cetera,

00:47:32.420 | then I would say, don't start with Shilajit.

00:47:33.940 | You'd probably be best off starting with something

00:47:35.660 | like Tonga Ali, maybe Fidogia.

00:47:37.560 | I've talked about these things previously.

00:47:39.900 | Okay.

00:47:40.740 | Let's see.

00:47:43.780 | Two questions popped up in front of me.

00:47:45.100 | So I'll just take the first one.

00:47:46.700 | Alexander, Alexander.

00:47:48.580 | I like the way you spell your name, Alexander.

00:47:50.180 | It's unusual.

00:47:51.000 | I dig it.

00:47:51.860 | What has your process been for the writing of your book?

00:47:55.260 | - Slow.

00:47:56.100 | I have a saying that I say in my lab

00:48:01.300 | or that I have said for many years in doing science

00:48:05.660 | when I was a graduate student, a postdoc,

00:48:07.300 | and then in my lab.

00:48:08.540 | And by the way, 'cause sometimes people ask about this,

00:48:11.740 | I still have research funds for human studies.

00:48:13.680 | I closed my animal lab, focusing mainly on teaching,

00:48:17.380 | which I'll be doing again this year.

00:48:19.220 | I'm teaching in the spring,

00:48:20.580 | maybe in the winter as well to undergraduates.

00:48:22.680 | And I may get re-involved in some human clinical studies

00:48:27.680 | on vision, an area that I've loved for many years.

00:48:31.340 | But in any case,

00:48:32.180 | there's a saying that I always would reiterate

00:48:34.660 | to my students in postdocs,

00:48:35.780 | which is I go as fast as I carefully can.

00:48:38.620 | Okay.

00:48:39.460 | So I believe in a sense of urgency.

00:48:40.300 | I like to sit down to write and think, okay,

00:48:42.060 | I'm going to go as fast as I carefully can.

00:48:44.140 | It's that right balance between urgency and precision.

00:48:47.860 | Okay.

00:48:48.700 | Going fast is rarely good in its own right.

00:48:52.500 | Going too slow isn't good either.

00:48:53.980 | So there's that place where I feel like

00:48:55.380 | I'm just pushing myself a little bit,

00:48:56.900 | but then you have to be careful, right?

00:48:58.380 | So as fast as you carefully can.

00:49:00.520 | So the process has been slow,

00:49:02.000 | but I've been going as fast as I carefully can.

00:49:04.600 | Any recommendations on overcoming obstacles

00:49:06.780 | and how did you deal with them?

00:49:08.120 | Yes, put that phone away, put it in the other room.

00:49:11.040 | If you have to generate accountability measures, do it.

00:49:15.280 | When I used to write grants in my laboratory in San Diego,

00:49:19.480 | you can ask my lab.

00:49:20.320 | I used to walk in and say, okay,

00:49:21.300 | I'm giving my phone to somebody.

00:49:22.860 | And if I ask for it back before 5 p.m. today,

00:49:27.080 | you each get $1,000.

00:49:28.400 | And I did not have $1,000 to give everyone in my lab.

00:49:30.680 | I had a pretty big lab and I didn't have the money.

00:49:32.960 | So you may have to create some barriers

00:49:35.840 | and gosh, about an hour and a half in, I'd think, okay, gosh,

00:49:38.380 | I was supposed to respond to this person today.

00:49:39.940 | They're going to think that I've dropped off the map.

00:49:41.460 | Oh my goodness.

00:49:42.300 | And then I'd remember, oh, I have an office phone.

00:49:44.440 | Someone really need to get ahold of me.

00:49:45.880 | If it was an emergency, they'd let me know.

00:49:47.200 | And if I couldn't be reached that way, someone would find me.

00:49:49.940 | I realized for people with kids, et cetera,

00:49:51.680 | this might not be feasible, but if you have to do that,

00:49:54.440 | you do that, set stakes, okay?

00:49:56.920 | Give someone a check for an exorbitant amount of money

00:49:59.560 | that you can't afford to give away,

00:50:01.320 | but that you do have in your bank account,

00:50:02.680 | give them that check and say,

00:50:04.320 | if I don't stop writing for the next hour,

00:50:09.320 | then you can tear up the check.

00:50:11.600 | Otherwise you can go cash it.

00:50:12.860 | So you can put some fear in there.

00:50:14.440 | But again, as I mentioned earlier,

00:50:16.040 | it's better to generate these kind of incentives

00:50:19.240 | with yourself.

00:50:20.160 | So I like to put my phone away.

00:50:22.100 | I like to take about 10 minutes

00:50:24.220 | to transition into the writing.

00:50:26.900 | And then I actually set rules for myself.

00:50:28.820 | I don't allow myself to get out of the seat,

00:50:30.460 | even to use the bathroom.

00:50:31.520 | It's true.

00:50:32.720 | I've never gone to the bathroom in my seat,

00:50:34.040 | but I resist the temptation to get up

00:50:36.420 | until the timer goes off.

00:50:37.980 | That's how I did it as an undergraduate.

00:50:39.440 | That's how I did it writing grants.

00:50:40.700 | That's how I've done it writing fellowships

00:50:42.320 | as a graduate student.

00:50:43.700 | And that's how I write the book now.

00:50:45.340 | And I find that after about 20, 30 minutes,

00:50:48.020 | I don't want to stand up.

00:50:49.040 | I'm super happy.

00:50:50.060 | And then if an interruption comes,

00:50:51.500 | then I get frustrated because I want to keep writing.

00:50:53.440 | So give it a try.

00:50:54.280 | Set some high stakes incentives for yourself.

00:50:56.220 | I mean, don't make them too high,

00:50:58.120 | but set some high stakes incentive.

00:51:01.140 | Thank you for saying, looking forward to the book.

00:51:02.740 | I appreciate it.

00:51:03.820 | If you want to buy a pre-order copy,

00:51:06.300 | it's protocolsbook.com.

00:51:08.820 | It's there in multiple languages now.

00:51:10.420 | I'd be grateful if you did.

00:51:12.500 | On the other hand, if you don't want to buy it,

00:51:14.180 | or you just want to wait till it comes out, that's fine too.

00:51:16.500 | And I'm just grateful that I have the opportunity

00:51:19.340 | to put this information into one place

00:51:21.140 | that people can access if they like.

00:51:24.580 | Mike Torres.

00:51:25.420 | And I think this is the last question, right?

00:51:27.500 | Are we down to about the last question?

00:51:29.300 | Two more, one more.

00:51:30.180 | All right, here we go.

00:51:31.220 | I'm asking my producer here.

00:51:32.620 | Mike, where can I find information from Huberman Lab

00:51:35.180 | regarding addictions and recovery?

00:51:36.660 | Great, great question.

00:51:37.980 | I get this a lot.

00:51:39.500 | A lot of people struggle with addiction.

00:51:41.140 | Addiction is a progressive narrowing

00:51:42.780 | of the things that bring you pleasure

00:51:44.380 | in ways that can be very disruptive for your life.

00:51:46.260 | These can be process addictions,

00:51:47.820 | meaning behavioral addictions.

00:51:48.860 | These can be substance abuse issues.

00:51:51.460 | First of all, I just want to say,

00:51:53.460 | while I have no formal relationship to them,

00:51:55.780 | you know, there are wonderful zero-cost resources

00:51:59.520 | in every city around the world, 12-step communities.

00:52:01.820 | Go online, look for that.

00:52:03.180 | The meetings and programs that they provide are very useful,

00:52:07.060 | have proven very useful.

00:52:08.280 | Actually, this was explored in a study

00:52:10.320 | from Stanford Psychiatry a few years ago,

00:52:12.140 | because there hadn't been a lot of science

00:52:14.180 | on those sorts of programs,

00:52:15.240 | and the conclusion was they can be very, very useful.

00:52:18.580 | In terms of Huberman Lab resources,

00:52:20.060 | if you go to hubermanlab.com,

00:52:21.380 | put addiction into the search function,

00:52:23.540 | it will take you to specific timestamps,

00:52:25.000 | mainly of an episode that I did with Dr. Anna Lembke,

00:52:27.580 | who is our director

00:52:28.940 | of the Dual Diagnosis Addiction Clinic at Stanford,

00:52:31.180 | the author of "Dopamine Nation,"

00:52:32.740 | an absolute virtuoso in terms of the description

00:52:36.840 | of the underlying biological mechanisms,

00:52:39.740 | mostly surrounding dopamine,

00:52:41.780 | but also the approach to treating

00:52:45.220 | and getting over addictions.

00:52:47.540 | You can get over addictions.

00:52:49.420 | People get sober from their addictions.

00:52:51.220 | It takes time, it takes energy, it takes effort,

00:52:53.780 | and in every case, it's an incredibly rewarding thing

00:52:57.580 | that just makes your life and other people's lives better.

00:53:00.780 | So I highly encourage anyone that's struggling

00:53:02.960 | with process addictions or substance abuse addictions

00:53:05.700 | or alcohol use disorder or things of that sort

00:53:08.060 | to pursue those resources, both on our website

00:53:11.140 | and, of course, the other resources

00:53:12.460 | that I mentioned a few minutes ago.

00:53:13.900 | Also, Anna's book, "Dopamine Nation," is a wonderful one.

00:53:16.220 | It will allow you to see and understand

00:53:19.420 | that these are brain mechanisms that are at play.

00:53:22.360 | These are not, it's not a lack of willpower.

00:53:25.780 | It's a disruption in neurochemical circuit regulation,

00:53:30.680 | and that should give you some grace

00:53:34.220 | and some feelings of ease,

00:53:35.460 | because what that means is that while it is not,

00:53:38.620 | quote-unquote, your fault,

00:53:40.260 | it is your responsibility to deal with it, and you can,

00:53:43.820 | and there are great zero-cost resources to do that,

00:53:46.020 | so please access those.

00:53:47.500 | And then just popped up on my screen,

00:53:49.500 | it says, "Happy birthday, Karen Diengar."

00:53:53.420 | I hope I pronounced that correctly.

00:53:55.100 | Happy birthday, Karen, and happy birthday

00:53:56.940 | to anyone else whose birthday happens to be today

00:53:59.260 | or in the vicinity of today.

00:54:02.220 | I guess this is going to be recorded and put out eventually,

00:54:05.420 | and then it'll be somebody's birthday on every day

00:54:07.700 | at some point, but happy birthday, Karen.

00:54:09.980 | Thank you for being a premium subscriber.

00:54:13.340 | Thank you all for tuning in.

00:54:14.700 | Thank you to those of you that listened to this

00:54:16.660 | at a later time recorded.

00:54:17.780 | I really appreciate your questions.

00:54:19.500 | I really appreciate your support of Huberman Lab.

00:54:23.000 | As I've said many times before, it's a labor of love.

00:54:25.460 | It continues to be a labor of love.

00:54:27.340 | I spend my life, my, basically all of my waking life

00:54:31.060 | minus some self-care and some care of others,

00:54:34.300 | and hopefully a bulldog soon, another bulldog soon.

00:54:37.500 | I can't wait, I've been looking for bulldogs,

00:54:39.540 | and there will be another one soon.

00:54:41.020 | I don't know his or her name will be,

00:54:43.060 | but in the absence of tending to those things,

00:54:46.500 | I'm focusing 98% of my waking life

00:54:50.860 | to trying to suss out the best health

00:54:53.540 | and science information for you all

00:54:55.460 | and get it out to you in formats that are convenient for you,

00:54:59.100 | that are useful for you, and that you can apply.

00:55:01.900 | Also discussions with expert guests.

00:55:04.260 | So there are the guest episodes, the solo episodes.

00:55:07.060 | There's hubermanlab.com has a lot of resources

00:55:09.660 | like the AI Engine, please give that a try if you like.

00:55:12.220 | It's basically an AI version of me,

00:55:13.860 | which is kind of weird to me,

00:55:14.860 | but it does a pretty good job.

00:55:16.340 | I would say it does a very good job

00:55:17.600 | of encapsulating a lot of themes.

00:55:19.860 | It's a great way to generate your own brief protocols

00:55:22.020 | if you want to do that.

00:55:22.860 | You can ask it to generate a exercise plan

00:55:25.880 | based on Huberman Lab protocols or what have you.

00:55:28.740 | And then the newsletters,

00:55:30.180 | I'm assuming most of you already subscribe to,

00:55:32.380 | but if you would be so kind as to make sure

00:55:34.820 | that you follow the podcast by clicking subscribe on YouTube,

00:55:38.580 | following the podcast on Apple and Spotify,

00:55:40.580 | just click, if you already follow, by the way,

00:55:42.660 | make sure you don't accidentally unfollow.

00:55:44.380 | But if you go click that follow tab, that really helps us.

00:55:47.700 | It's zero cost.

00:55:48.800 | Give us a five-star review if you think we deserve it,

00:55:50.920 | or different review if you think we deserve that.

00:55:52.840 | I love your comments on YouTube.

00:55:54.200 | I do read them all.

00:55:55.060 | I really do read them all.

00:55:56.340 | I even go and find the hidden comments that get filtered

00:55:58.540 | and I read those too.

00:56:00.220 | So please, if you feel inclined,

00:56:03.080 | you can support us in that way.

00:56:04.380 | And most importantly,

00:56:06.220 | take the protocols and the information

00:56:07.860 | that you think works for you, apply it,

00:56:09.860 | discard the protocols and the information

00:56:11.960 | that you don't feel is for you.

00:56:13.500 | Discard it, that's great.

00:56:15.160 | And of course, I don't deserve credit

00:56:17.220 | for any of these protocols per se, right?

00:56:19.180 | These are the product of so much great science

00:56:21.820 | and health studies out there, clinical studies,

00:56:24.800 | and I'm just a funnel in a filter,

00:56:27.180 | but it is a true pleasure to be able to be

00:56:29.180 | that funnel and filter.

00:56:30.580 | So thank you for letting me funnel and filter

00:56:33.220 | today's knowledge for you.

00:56:34.940 | And as always, thank you for your interest in science.

00:56:38.520 | [upbeat music]

00:56:41.100 | [MUSIC PLAYING]

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