Joe Rogan: Fear, Love, Chaos, and the Joe Rogan Experience

00:00:00.000 | The following is a conversation with Joe Rogan

00:00:03.200 | that we recorded after my recent appearance

00:00:05.720 | on his podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience.

00:00:08.920 | Joe has been an inspiration to me

00:00:11.480 | and I thank to millions of people

00:00:13.560 | for just being somebody who puts love out there in the world

00:00:17.640 | and being genuinely curious about wild ideas

00:00:20.920 | from chimps and psychedelics to quantum mechanics

00:00:24.800 | and artificial intelligence.

00:00:26.800 | Like many of you, I've been a fan of his podcast

00:00:29.620 | for over a decade and now, somehow, miraculously,

00:00:34.620 | am humbled to be able to call him a friend.

00:00:38.400 | If you enjoy this thing, subscribe on YouTube,

00:00:40.780 | review it with 5 Stars on Apple Podcasts,

00:00:42.920 | follow on Spotify, support on Patreon,

00:00:45.000 | or connect with me on Twitter, @AlexFreedman.

00:00:48.380 | Today's sponsors are Neuro, 8 Sleep, Dollar Shave Club,

00:00:53.380 | and Olive Garden, home of the Unlimited Breadsticks

00:00:57.680 | and Brian Redband's favorite restaurant.

00:01:00.940 | Check out the first three of the sponsors in the description

00:01:04.700 | to get a discount and to support this podcast.

00:01:08.420 | I usually do full ad reads here

00:01:10.140 | and never ads in the middle,

00:01:11.240 | but this time, let's go straight to the conversation

00:01:14.100 | with a bit of guitar first.

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00:01:49.760 | - Do you ponder your mortality?

00:01:56.140 | Are you afraid of death?

00:01:57.860 | - I do think about it sometimes.

00:01:59.480 | I mean, it does pop into my head sometimes,

00:02:01.780 | just the fact that, I mean, I'm 53,

00:02:04.940 | so if everything goes great, I have less than 50 years left.

00:02:09.940 | You know, if everything goes great,

00:02:12.540 | like no car accidents, no injuries.

00:02:15.580 | - But it could happen today.

00:02:16.860 | This could be your last day.

00:02:18.220 | - Could be.

00:02:19.140 | - That's kind of a stoic thing to meditate on death.

00:02:22.300 | There's a bunch of philosophers,

00:02:24.020 | Ernest Becker and Sheldon Solomon.

00:02:27.460 | They believe that death is at the core of everything.

00:02:31.460 | Wrote this book, Warm at the Core.

00:02:33.300 | So does that come into play in the way you see the world?

00:02:36.260 | - I think having a sense of urgency is very beneficial

00:02:41.500 | and understanding that your time is limited

00:02:43.520 | can aid you greatly.

00:02:44.940 | I think knowing that this is a temporary time,

00:02:48.260 | that we have finite lifespans,

00:02:51.420 | I think there's great power in that

00:02:55.580 | because it motivates you, it gets you going.

00:02:58.580 | I think being an immortal, living forever,

00:03:01.180 | would be one of the most depressing things,

00:03:02.740 | particularly if everybody else was dying around you.

00:03:05.140 | And I think one of the things that makes life

00:03:08.160 | so interesting and fascinating is that it doesn't last.

00:03:12.340 | You know, that you really get a brief amount of time,

00:03:14.860 | here and really by the time you're just starting

00:03:17.220 | to kind of figure yourself out, who you are

00:03:19.980 | and how not to screw things up so bad, like time's up.

00:03:23.500 | - The ride's over.

00:03:24.660 | What about from your daughter's perspective?

00:03:27.820 | Do you think about the world we're in now

00:03:31.940 | and what kind of world you're gonna leave them?

00:03:34.300 | - I do.

00:03:36.140 | - And do you worry about it?

00:03:36.960 | - I do, yeah, I do.

00:03:38.580 | I do when I see these protests and riots and chaos

00:03:42.760 | and so much anger in the world today.

00:03:47.760 | And then particularly today, I think,

00:03:50.420 | because of the pandemic and the fact that so many folks

00:03:54.380 | are out of work and through no fault of their own

00:03:57.220 | and can't make ends meet and just people feel so helpless

00:04:01.600 | and angry, it's a particularly divisive time.

00:04:06.600 | It's a particularly turmoil-filled time.

00:04:10.420 | And it just doesn't seem like the world of a year ago,

00:04:13.920 | even, just feels very chaotic and dangerous.

00:04:17.620 | And it's a small thing, like in terms of the possibilities

00:04:21.780 | of things that could happen to the world,

00:04:23.180 | like a pandemic, like the one we've experienced,

00:04:25.460 | it really just doubles the amount of deaths

00:04:27.640 | on a bad flu year.

00:04:29.040 | So it, relatively speaking, is a small thing

00:04:31.980 | in comparison to super volcano eruptions, asteroid impact,

00:04:38.200 | a real horrific pandemic, one that really wipes out

00:04:43.200 | millions and millions of people.

00:04:45.180 | It's stunning how fragile civility is.

00:04:50.340 | It's stunning how fragile our society really is,

00:04:55.020 | that something like this can come along,

00:04:57.000 | some unprecedented thing can come along

00:05:00.060 | and all of a sudden everybody's out of work for six months.

00:05:02.280 | And then everybody's at each other's throats.

00:05:04.000 | And then politically, everyone's at each other's throats.

00:05:06.220 | And then with the advent of social media

00:05:09.240 | and the images that you can see,

00:05:12.600 | with the videos of police abuse and just racial tensions

00:05:17.360 | are at an all time high, to a point where like,

00:05:19.700 | if you asked me just five or six years ago,

00:05:23.080 | like, have racial problems in this country

00:05:27.160 | largely been alleviated?

00:05:28.640 | I'd probably say, yeah, it's way better

00:05:30.040 | than it's ever been before.

00:05:31.280 | But now you could argue that it's not.

00:05:32.820 | Now you could argue, no, it's way worse

00:05:34.520 | in just a small amount of time.

00:05:36.580 | It's way worse than it's ever been during my lifetime.

00:05:39.760 | While I'm aware of it,

00:05:41.680 | obviously when I was a young boy in the 60s,

00:05:44.480 | they were still going through the civil rights movement,

00:05:46.960 | but now it just seems very fever pitched.

00:05:51.640 | And I think a lot of that is because of the pandemic

00:05:53.760 | and is because of all the heightened, just tension.

00:05:58.380 | The one I liken it to is road rage.

00:06:03.720 | 'Cause people have road rage,

00:06:05.440 | not just because they're in the car

00:06:06.840 | and no one can get to them,

00:06:08.120 | but also because you're at a heightened state

00:06:10.560 | because you're driving fast

00:06:12.000 | and you know you're driving fast.

00:06:13.120 | You know you have to make split second movements.

00:06:14.960 | And so anybody doing something, you're like, what the?

00:06:17.540 | People go crazy because they're already at an eight

00:06:21.160 | because they're in the car and they're moving very quickly.

00:06:23.540 | That's what it feels like with today, with the pandemic.

00:06:26.120 | It feels like everybody is already at an eight.

00:06:28.680 | So anything that comes along, it's like,

00:06:30.560 | light it all on fire, burn it down.

00:06:33.120 | Like that's part of what I think is part of the reason

00:06:36.720 | for a lot of the looting and the riots and all the chaos.

00:06:39.680 | It's not just the people out of work,

00:06:41.120 | but it's also that everyone feels so tense already

00:06:45.840 | and everyone feels so helpless.

00:06:47.920 | And it's like, you know, doing something like that

00:06:51.420 | makes people, it just,

00:06:54.020 | it gives people a whole new motivation for chaos,

00:07:01.060 | a whole new motivation for doing destructive things

00:07:05.140 | that I've never experienced in my life.

00:07:07.360 | - And your better days, when you see a positive future,

00:07:10.660 | what do you think is the way out of this chaos of 2020?

00:07:15.220 | Like if you visualize a 2025,

00:07:18.060 | that's a better world than today.

00:07:19.700 | What does that, how do we get there

00:07:21.300 | and what does that look like?

00:07:22.340 | - It's a good question.

00:07:23.540 | I can honestly say I don't know.

00:07:29.300 | And I wouldn't have said I don't know a year ago.

00:07:32.620 | A year ago, I would have said, we're gonna be okay.

00:07:34.860 | As much as people hate Trump, the economy's doing great.

00:07:37.980 | I think we're gonna be fine.

00:07:39.340 | That's not how I feel today.

00:07:41.220 | Today, I don't think there's a clear solution politically

00:07:45.700 | 'cause I think if Trump wins, people are gonna be furious.

00:07:48.540 | And I think if Biden wins, people are gonna be furious.

00:07:51.300 | Particularly like if things get more woke, you know,

00:07:55.780 | if people continue to enforce this, force compliance

00:08:00.780 | and make people behave a certain way

00:08:03.660 | and act a certain way, which seems to be a part

00:08:05.340 | of what this whole woke thing is,

00:08:06.860 | that is the most disturbing for me

00:08:09.500 | is that I see what's going on.

00:08:10.920 | I see there's a lot of losers that have hopped on this

00:08:14.900 | and they shove it in people's faces

00:08:17.060 | and it doesn't have to make sense.

00:08:18.140 | Like there was a Black Lives Matter protest

00:08:20.300 | that stopped this woman at a restaurant.

00:08:23.340 | They were surrounding her outside a restaurant

00:08:25.220 | and they were forcing her to raise her fist in compliance.

00:08:28.500 | This is a woman who's marched for Black Lives Matter

00:08:32.500 | multiple times and the people around her doing this

00:08:34.740 | were all white.

00:08:35.700 | - Yeah. - It's all weird.

00:08:37.140 | My friend, Coach T, he's a wrestling coach,

00:08:39.140 | is also on a podcast, my friend, Brian Moses.

00:08:42.460 | His take on it is that Black, and he's a Black guy,

00:08:45.100 | he says, "Black Lives Matter is a white cult."

00:08:47.100 | (laughing)

00:08:48.060 | And I'm like, when you see that picture,

00:08:49.900 | it's hard to argue that he's got a point.

00:08:52.260 | I mean, it's clearly not all about that,

00:08:54.260 | but there's a lot of people that have jumped on board

00:08:57.580 | that are very much like cult members.

00:09:00.740 | Because the thing about Black Lives Matter

00:09:03.020 | or any movement is you can't control who joins.

00:09:06.740 | There's no entrance examination.

00:09:10.500 | So you don't go, okay, how do you feel about this?

00:09:12.380 | What's your perceptions on that?

00:09:13.660 | Like the man who shot the Trump supporter in Portland,

00:09:18.300 | you know, that guy who murdered the Trump supporter

00:09:20.260 | then the cop shot him?

00:09:21.580 | That guy was walking around with his hand on his gun

00:09:25.780 | looking for Trump supporters.

00:09:27.500 | Just want, I mean, he's a known violent guy

00:09:31.500 | who was walking around looking for Trump supporters,

00:09:33.460 | found one and shot one.

00:09:34.780 | That has nothing to do with Black Lives Matter.

00:09:36.900 | He's a white guy, he shot another white guy.

00:09:38.380 | It's just madness, you know?

00:09:40.660 | And that kind of madness is,

00:09:42.940 | it's disturbing to see it ramp up so quickly.

00:09:47.380 | I mean, there's been riots in Portland every night.

00:09:51.340 | Oh, excuse me, demonstrations for 101 days now.

00:09:55.020 | 101 days in a row of them lighting things on fire,

00:09:57.780 | breaking into federal buildings.

00:09:59.820 | It's like, whoever saw that coming?

00:10:02.460 | Nobody saw that coming.

00:10:03.380 | So I don't know what the solution is

00:10:07.300 | and I don't know what it looks like in five years.

00:10:09.340 | So 2025, to answer your question, like,

00:10:12.220 | it could be anything.

00:10:13.060 | I mean, we could be looking at Mad Max.

00:10:14.740 | We could be looking at the apocalypse.

00:10:16.700 | We could also be looking at an invasion

00:10:19.620 | from another country.

00:10:20.460 | We could be looking at a war, like a real hot war.

00:10:23.620 | - To put a little bit of responsibility on you,

00:10:27.260 | like, for me, I've listened to you

00:10:28.820 | since the Red Band Olive Garden days,

00:10:31.540 | that's the very beginning.

00:10:33.260 | And there was something in the way

00:10:35.340 | you communicated about the world.

00:10:36.740 | Maybe there was others,

00:10:37.580 | but you were the one I was aware of,

00:10:39.580 | is you were open-minded and loving towards the world,

00:10:44.180 | especially as the podcast developed.

00:10:45.780 | Like, you just demonstrated and lived

00:10:49.700 | this kind of just kindness,

00:10:51.660 | or maybe even like lack of jealousy

00:10:53.740 | in your own little profession of comedy.

00:10:55.860 | It was clear that you didn't succumb

00:11:00.060 | to the weaker aspects of human nature

00:11:02.060 | and thereby inspire people like me,

00:11:04.300 | who I was naturally, probably especially in the 20s,

00:11:09.300 | early 20s, kind of jealous of the success of others.

00:11:12.540 | And you're really the primary person

00:11:15.060 | that taught me to truly celebrate the success of others.

00:11:19.900 | And so by way of question,

00:11:23.220 | you kind of have a role in this,

00:11:25.060 | of making a better 2025.

00:11:26.660 | You have such a big megaphone.

00:11:27.860 | Is there something you think you can do on this podcast

00:11:31.820 | with the words, the way you talk,

00:11:34.980 | the things you discuss that could create a better 2025?

00:11:39.540 | - I think if anything, I could help in leading by example,

00:11:44.460 | but that's only gonna help the people that are listening.

00:11:49.180 | I don't know what else I can do

00:11:52.340 | in terms of like make the world a better place

00:11:54.180 | other than express my hopes and wishes for that

00:11:59.180 | and just try to be as nice as I can to people

00:12:02.540 | as often as I can.

00:12:04.220 | But I also think that I've fallen into this weird category,

00:12:07.060 | particularly with the Spotify deal,

00:12:09.740 | where I'm one of them now.

00:12:12.940 | I'm not a regular person anymore.

00:12:14.980 | Now I'm like some famous rich guy.

00:12:18.620 | So you go from being a regular person

00:12:20.300 | to a famous rich guy that's out of touch.

00:12:22.980 | And that's a real issue

00:12:26.020 | whenever you're talking about the economy,

00:12:28.620 | about just real life problems.

00:12:30.940 | - It's interesting.

00:12:32.020 | It kind of hurts my heart to hear people say

00:12:33.780 | about Elon Musk, he's just a billionaire.

00:12:36.460 | It's an interesting statement,

00:12:38.460 | but I think if you just continue being you

00:12:41.140 | and he continued being him,

00:12:42.940 | I think people are just voicing their worry

00:12:47.980 | that you become some rich guy.

00:12:49.620 | - I don't even know if they're doing that.

00:12:51.620 | I think they're just finding,

00:12:53.700 | the way he describes it, an attack vector.

00:12:56.300 | - Right.

00:12:57.140 | - Yeah, and I think he's right.

00:12:58.220 | I think they can dismiss you by just saying,

00:13:01.580 | oh, you're just a that.

00:13:03.380 | You're easily definable.

00:13:08.780 | - Right.

00:13:09.620 | I mean, there's truth to that.

00:13:10.980 | If you're not careful, you can become out of touch.

00:13:14.020 | But that's an interesting thing.

00:13:17.260 | Why haven't you become out of touch?

00:13:19.420 | As a human off the podcast,

00:13:21.740 | you talk to somebody like me.

00:13:26.580 | You don't talk like a famous person

00:13:28.780 | or you don't act rich.

00:13:31.340 | (Lex laughing)

00:13:32.420 | Like you're better than others.

00:13:33.700 | There's a certain, listen, I've talked to quite a few.

00:13:37.260 | You have too, but I've talked to a special kind

00:13:39.940 | of group of people that are like Nobel Prize winners,

00:13:41.940 | let's say.

00:13:42.980 | They sometimes have an air to them that's of arrogance.

00:13:47.460 | And you don't.

00:13:48.300 | What's that about?

00:13:49.340 | - Well, you gotta know what that is, right?

00:13:51.860 | Like that air of arrogance comes

00:13:54.340 | from drinking your own Kool-Aid.

00:13:57.660 | You start believing that somehow or another,

00:14:00.260 | just because you're getting praise from all these people

00:14:02.060 | that you really are something different.

00:14:04.500 | Usually it exemplifies, there's something there

00:14:08.460 | where there's a lack of struggle.

00:14:10.500 | And I think struggle is probably

00:14:15.420 | one of the most important balancing tools

00:14:22.300 | that a person can have.

00:14:23.980 | And for me, I struggle mentally and I struggle physically.

00:14:28.980 | I struggle mentally in that, like we were talking about

00:14:31.940 | on the podcast we did previously,

00:14:34.340 | you and I on my podcast, that I'm not a fan of my work.

00:14:37.780 | I'm not a fan of what I do.

00:14:38.900 | I'm my harshest critic.

00:14:41.020 | So anytime anybody says something bad about me,

00:14:43.460 | I'm like, listen, I said way worse about myself.

00:14:46.940 | I don't like anything I do.

00:14:50.020 | I'm ruthlessly introspective

00:14:53.020 | and I will continue to be that way.

00:14:54.900 | 'Cause that's the only way you can be good as a comedian.

00:14:57.060 | There's no other way.

00:14:57.940 | You can't just think you're awesome and just go out there.

00:14:59.900 | You have to be like picking apart everything you do.

00:15:03.020 | But there's a balance to that too,

00:15:04.220 | 'cause you have to have enough confidence

00:15:05.460 | to go out there and perform.

00:15:06.780 | You can't think, oh my God, I suck.

00:15:08.500 | I know what I'm doing, but I know what I'm doing

00:15:10.300 | because I put in all that work.

00:15:11.580 | And one of the reasons why I put in all that work

00:15:13.380 | is I don't like the end result most of the time.

00:15:17.500 | So I need to work at it all the time.

00:15:19.620 | And then there's physical struggle,

00:15:21.300 | which I think balances everything out.

00:15:23.940 | Without physical struggle, I always make the analogy

00:15:27.660 | that the body is in a lot of ways like a battery,

00:15:30.700 | where if you have extra charge,

00:15:33.220 | it's like it leaks out of the top

00:15:34.980 | and it becomes unmanageable and messy.

00:15:37.580 | And that's how my psyche is.

00:15:39.220 | If I have too much energy,

00:15:41.540 | if I'm not exerting myself in a violent way,

00:15:46.420 | like an explosive way, like wearing myself out,

00:15:49.940 | I just don't like the way the world is.

00:15:52.740 | I don't like the way I interface with the world.

00:15:54.620 | I'm too tense.

00:15:55.980 | I'm too quick to be upset about things.

00:16:00.420 | But when I work out hard

00:16:03.020 | and I put in a brutal training session, everything's fine.

00:16:07.180 | - Well, the first time I talked to you, Jerry,

00:16:11.380 | you were doing October.

00:16:12.860 | - Sober October.

00:16:14.660 | - Sober October.

00:16:15.820 | And there's something in your eyes,

00:16:17.740 | like I think you've talked about that

00:16:20.980 | you exercise the demons out, essentially.

00:16:22.980 | So you exercise to get whatever the parts of you

00:16:26.020 | that you don't like out.

00:16:27.900 | There's a darkness in you there.

00:16:30.740 | Like the competitiveness and the focus of that person.

00:16:34.700 | - That was a scary time in a lot of ways,

00:16:36.460 | that Sober October thing.

00:16:38.060 | 'Cause my friends, we were all talking shit, right?

00:16:41.460 | 'Cause we're competing against each other

00:16:43.380 | in these fitness challenges.

00:16:44.620 | And you had one point,

00:16:48.500 | like you got a certain amount of points

00:16:50.340 | for each minute that you went at 80% of your max heart rate.

00:16:54.540 | And one day I got 1,100 points.

00:16:57.580 | So I did seven hours on an elliptical machine

00:17:00.580 | watching the bathhouse scene from John Wick,

00:17:03.620 | where he murders all those people in the bathhouse.

00:17:05.060 | I watched it probably 50 times in a row.

00:17:07.180 | I went crazy.

00:17:08.420 | I went crazy, but I went crazy in a weird way

00:17:11.300 | where it brought me back to my fighting days.

00:17:16.100 | It was like that person came out again.

00:17:18.260 | It was like, well, I didn't even know he was in there.

00:17:20.340 | It's like an assassin, like a killer.

00:17:25.940 | Like I felt like a different person.

00:17:30.940 | - Is it echoes of like what Mike Tyson talked about,

00:17:34.100 | essentially like the-

00:17:35.700 | - Maybe, but no orgasm notions.

00:17:37.860 | (laughing)

00:17:39.380 | All the crazy shit that he was saying.

00:17:41.060 | - Is there a violent person in there?

00:17:44.020 | - Oh yeah.

00:17:44.860 | Yeah, there's a lot of violence in me, for sure.

00:17:47.820 | I don't know if it's genetic or learned,

00:17:49.620 | or it's because during my formative years

00:17:52.260 | from the time I was 15 till I was 22,

00:17:55.060 | all I did was fight.

00:17:56.740 | That was all I did.

00:17:58.180 | That was all I did.

00:17:59.100 | All I did was train and compete.

00:18:01.060 | That's all I did.

00:18:01.900 | That was my whole life.

00:18:03.060 | - Is it connected to,

00:18:04.780 | so your mom and dad broke up early on.

00:18:07.740 | Is it connected to the dad at all?

00:18:10.340 | - I'm sure it's connected to him also

00:18:12.860 | because he was violent

00:18:13.860 | and it made me feel very scared to be around him.

00:18:16.340 | But I also think it's connected in who he was as a human

00:18:20.860 | is transferred into my DNA.

00:18:23.300 | I think there's a certain amount of,

00:18:25.860 | I mean, to be prejudiced against myself,

00:18:30.380 | I look like a violent person.

00:18:32.540 | If I didn't know me,

00:18:33.820 | I'm just, even the way I'm built,

00:18:35.500 | not even just the working out part,

00:18:36.780 | just the size of my hands

00:18:38.300 | and there's the width of my shoulders.

00:18:41.340 | There's most likely a lot of violence in my history,

00:18:44.900 | in my past, in my ancestry.

00:18:47.220 | And I think we'd minimize that with people.

00:18:52.740 | So much of your behavior,

00:18:54.420 | like when I see my daughter,

00:18:55.820 | I have one daughter that's obsessive

00:18:58.300 | in terms of like, she wants to get really good at things.

00:19:00.460 | Like she'll practice things all day long

00:19:03.220 | and it's 100% my personality.

00:19:06.780 | Like she's me in female form,

00:19:09.780 | but without the anger as much

00:19:11.580 | and without the fear,

00:19:13.820 | like she has a loving household and everything like that.

00:19:16.500 | But she has this intense obsession with doing things

00:19:21.260 | and doing things really well

00:19:22.380 | and getting better.

00:19:23.340 | What's the point we have to tell her,

00:19:24.540 | stop doing hand springs in the house.

00:19:26.540 | Stop, stop, come on, just sit down, have dinner.

00:19:29.180 | Like one more, one more.

00:19:30.180 | Like she's just like, she's psycho.

00:19:32.460 | And I think there's a lot of behavior and personality

00:19:39.060 | and a lot of these things are passed down through genetics.

00:19:45.700 | We don't really know, right?

00:19:47.420 | We don't know how much of who you are genetically

00:19:51.740 | is learned behavior, you know, nature or nurture.

00:19:54.500 | We don't know if it's learned behavior

00:19:57.060 | or whether or not it's something

00:19:58.180 | that's intrinsically a part of you

00:19:59.700 | because of who your parents were.

00:20:01.940 | I think there's certainly some genetic violence in me.

00:20:06.620 | - And then you channeled it.

00:20:07.940 | - Yeah, I channeled it.

00:20:08.780 | - So you figured out is basically your life

00:20:10.460 | is a productive exploration of how to channel that.

00:20:13.260 | - Yes, how to figure out how to get that monkey

00:20:17.180 | to sit down and calm down.

00:20:19.860 | There's another person in there.

00:20:21.180 | Like there's a calm, rational, kind, friendly person

00:20:26.180 | who just wants to laugh and have fun.

00:20:28.300 | And then there's that dude who comes out

00:20:30.580 | when I did "Sober October."

00:20:32.620 | That guy's scary, I don't like that guy.

00:20:34.660 | That guy just wants to get up in the morning and go.

00:20:37.140 | You know, it's like, it's, I mean,

00:20:40.380 | when I was competing, it was necessary,

00:20:42.820 | but it makes me remember.

00:20:44.260 | I didn't really remember what I used to be like until that.

00:20:48.420 | It's like when I'm working out seven hours a day

00:20:51.780 | and just so obsessed.

00:20:53.620 | And all I was thinking about was winning.

00:20:55.900 | That's all I was thinking about.

00:20:56.900 | Like if they were working out five hours a day,

00:20:59.220 | I wanted them to know that I was gonna work out

00:21:01.700 | an extra three hours and I was gonna get up early

00:21:04.420 | and I was gonna text them all, "Hey, pussies,

00:21:06.660 | "I'm up already, take pictures, send selfies."

00:21:08.740 | (Lex laughing)

00:21:09.580 | I was like, "You're gonna die."

00:21:11.100 | Or I kept telling them, "You're all gonna die.

00:21:12.940 | "You try to keep up with me, you're gonna die."

00:21:14.860 | - You weren't fully joking.

00:21:16.660 | - No, I wasn't joking at all.

00:21:18.060 | - That's what was fucked up about it.

00:21:18.900 | - This is the scary thing when I interacted with Goggins

00:21:21.500 | and what I saw in you during that time is like,

00:21:26.500 | this guy, like, this is why I've been avoiding

00:21:30.780 | David Goggins recently.

00:21:31.980 | (Lex laughing)

00:21:33.700 | Is like, 'cause he wants to meet,

00:21:35.100 | he wants to do the talk on this podcast,

00:21:37.020 | but he also wants to run an ultra marathon with me.

00:21:39.740 | And I felt like this is a person,

00:21:42.180 | if I spend any time in this realm,

00:21:44.420 | if I spend any time with the Joe Rogan

00:21:46.100 | of that Sober October, like, I might have to die to get out.

00:21:50.900 | Like, there's this kind of--

00:21:52.660 | - Yeah, there's a competitive aspect that's super unhealthy.

00:21:55.560 | I mean, you saw the video that we watched earlier today

00:21:57.640 | of Goggins draining his knee.

00:21:59.380 | That would stop me from running ever again

00:22:01.660 | because I would think in my head,

00:22:02.620 | "Okay, I'm gonna ruin my cartilage,

00:22:04.480 | "I'm gonna need a knee replacement."

00:22:06.260 | I would start thinking, I would go down that line.

00:22:08.820 | But he is perpetually in this push it mindset.

00:22:13.140 | You know, what he calls the dog in him.

00:22:16.300 | That dog is in him all day long and he feeds that dog.

00:22:19.060 | And that's who he is.

00:22:22.540 | That's one of the reasons why he's so inspirational

00:22:24.500 | and he's fuel for millions and millions of people.

00:22:27.700 | I mean, he really is.

00:22:28.660 | He motivates people in a way that is so powerful,

00:22:32.580 | but it can be very destructive.

00:22:35.180 | I just, I know now,

00:22:38.140 | especially after the Sober October thing,

00:22:39.780 | that that thing's still in me.

00:22:41.380 | You know, I didn't know.

00:22:43.100 | So I really haven't done anything physically competitive.

00:22:45.500 | Except one time I was supposed to fight Wesley Snipes.

00:22:48.020 | It came out then too.

00:22:49.340 | That came out too.

00:22:50.740 | That got creepy too.

00:22:51.780 | But luckily that never happened.

00:22:53.820 | But that was many months of training.

00:22:56.780 | Like training twice a day, every day.

00:22:59.620 | Kickboxing in the morning, Jiu-Jitsu at night.

00:23:01.980 | I was just going and going and going and going.

00:23:04.220 | And I was just thinking just all day long.

00:23:07.100 | But it fucks with all the other aspects of your life.

00:23:09.700 | It fucks with your friendships.

00:23:10.940 | It fucks with my comedy.

00:23:13.580 | It fucks with everything.

00:23:14.860 | Because that mindset is not a mindset of an artist.

00:23:18.460 | It's a mindset of a conqueror.

00:23:20.300 | - The conqueror.

00:23:21.140 | - Yeah. - Destroyer.

00:23:22.140 | That's why it's so interesting

00:23:23.260 | to see Mike Tyson make the switch.

00:23:25.300 | It's clear that like, whatever that is,

00:23:27.980 | however that fight goes, he made a,

00:23:29.660 | there's a switch of a different,

00:23:30.900 | he stepped into a different dimension.

00:23:32.780 | - Roy Jones Jr. is coming on my podcast soon.

00:23:35.060 | And you know, Roy's gonna be on before the fight.

00:23:38.580 | I'm so curious to see how it goes down,

00:23:42.660 | but genuinely concerned.

00:23:44.900 | 'Cause Mike Tyson is a heavyweight.

00:23:46.820 | And Roy Jones at his best was 168 pounds.

00:23:49.860 | And that's--

00:23:50.700 | - And I don't know if Roy has that room in his house,

00:23:53.860 | mental house of where Mike Tyson goes.

00:23:56.100 | - I don't know.

00:23:57.020 | I don't know if he has that room.

00:23:58.420 | Mike doesn't have a room.

00:23:59.580 | He's got an empire in there.

00:24:01.500 | He opens up the door. - With tigers.

00:24:03.020 | - He opens up the door.

00:24:04.500 | There's a whole empire in his head.

00:24:06.140 | And he's in that firmly.

00:24:08.460 | You know, when he got out of the weed

00:24:10.140 | and started training again, like you could see it in him.

00:24:13.740 | And by the way, physically, in person, he looks spectacular.

00:24:18.020 | He looks like a fucking Adonis.

00:24:20.300 | I mean, he looks ready to go.

00:24:22.060 | It's crazy.

00:24:23.140 | - Yeah, I watch videos of him.

00:24:24.500 | What about you?

00:24:25.820 | Have you ever considered competing in Jiu-Jitsu?

00:24:28.580 | - No, for that very reason.

00:24:30.180 | I don't want to get obsessed.

00:24:32.140 | That's my number one concern.

00:24:34.060 | I had to quit video games

00:24:35.820 | when we were playing video games at the studio.

00:24:37.340 | I had to quit because I was playing five hours a day,

00:24:39.700 | like out of nowhere.

00:24:40.540 | All of a sudden I was playing five hours a day.

00:24:41.900 | I was coming home late for dinner.

00:24:43.420 | I was ending podcasts early

00:24:45.500 | and jumping on the video games and playing.

00:24:47.660 | I get obsessed with things

00:24:48.980 | and I have to recognize what that is.

00:24:51.660 | And these competitive things,

00:24:53.540 | like competitive, especially like really exciting

00:24:55.900 | competitive things like video games,

00:24:57.580 | they're very dangerous for me.

00:24:58.980 | The ultimate competitive video game is like Jiu-Jitsu.

00:25:02.260 | And if I was young, I most certainly would have done it

00:25:05.380 | if I didn't have like a very clear career path.

00:25:08.260 | It was something that I enjoyed.

00:25:09.620 | My concern would be that I would become

00:25:11.300 | a professional Jiu-Jitsu fighter when I was young.

00:25:14.100 | And then I would not have the energy to do standup

00:25:17.180 | and do all the other things

00:25:18.300 | that I wound up doing as a career.

00:25:20.620 | When I was 21, I quit my job teaching.

00:25:25.260 | I was teaching at Boston University.

00:25:27.260 | I was teaching Taekwondo there.

00:25:28.980 | And I knew, and I also had my own school in Revere.

00:25:33.500 | I knew I couldn't do it right

00:25:35.380 | and also be doing standup comedy.

00:25:38.420 | I knew I couldn't do both of those things.

00:25:40.300 | There was no way.

00:25:41.140 | - You have to be cognizant of that obsessive force

00:25:44.460 | within you to make sure.

00:25:45.740 | - Yes, I'd have to know how to manage my mental illness.

00:25:49.300 | That's a very particular mental illness.

00:25:51.500 | And I think that mental illness, again, my formative years

00:25:55.660 | from 15 till I was 21-ish, 22,

00:25:59.620 | those years were spent constantly obsessed

00:26:04.380 | with martial arts.

00:26:05.700 | That was my whole day.

00:26:07.060 | I mean, I trained almost every day.

00:26:09.220 | The only time I would not train

00:26:10.660 | is if I was either injured or if I was exhausted,

00:26:14.380 | if I needed a day off, but I was obsessed.

00:26:16.980 | And so that part of my personality that I haven't nurtured

00:26:21.420 | is always gonna be there under the surface.

00:26:24.100 | And when it gets reignited by something,

00:26:27.340 | it's a very weird, it's a weird feeling.

00:26:29.580 | And it can get reignited with a video game.

00:26:31.780 | It can get reignited with anything.

00:26:33.740 | That obsessive, whatever it is, that competitive demon.

00:26:38.220 | - Yeah, the way you talk about guitar,

00:26:39.620 | I know you would fall in love with playing guitar,

00:26:42.140 | but I think you're very wise to not touch that thing.

00:26:44.420 | - That's why I won't golf.

00:26:45.980 | I have friends who wanna golf.

00:26:47.060 | I'm like, "Mm-mm, I ain't fucking with that thing."

00:26:49.700 | - So a lot of people ask me,

00:26:51.100 | "What's Joe Rogan's jiu-jitsu game like?"

00:26:55.500 | Like assuming that I somehow spend hours rolling with you

00:27:00.340 | before and after we interact.

00:27:02.460 | I mean, what's a good, you should at some point

00:27:05.660 | show a technique or something, that'd be fun.

00:27:07.260 | - Sure, I mean, I've got--

00:27:08.580 | - What's your game like?

00:27:09.420 | What's your A game?

00:27:10.460 | Oh, I saw you doing, I think, head and arm something online.

00:27:15.300 | - Yeah, I did.

00:27:16.740 | That was, I fucked my neck.

00:27:18.060 | I'm doing head and arm chokes.

00:27:19.140 | I did them so much that I,

00:27:21.260 | because you use your neck so much with head and arm chokes,

00:27:24.700 | I developed a real kink in my neck

00:27:27.340 | and it turned out I had a bulging disc.

00:27:29.700 | - So you do it on that, just one side?

00:27:33.100 | - Well, it was, no, I could do it on the left side,

00:27:35.820 | but I definitely am better on the right side.

00:27:38.180 | The right side was my best side.

00:27:39.380 | - So if you were to compete, let's say,

00:27:41.260 | what's your A game?

00:27:42.500 | Where would you go from standing up,

00:27:45.060 | how would you go to submission?

00:27:46.700 | Would you pull guard?

00:27:47.620 | Would you take down?

00:27:49.380 | How would you pass guard?

00:27:51.660 | - I don't have good takedowns.

00:27:52.940 | I was not a good wrestler.

00:27:54.260 | So I would most likely either pull guard

00:27:57.620 | or I would pull half guard.

00:27:59.260 | - Do you have a good guard?

00:28:00.100 | - Yes.

00:28:00.940 | - Are you comfortable being on your butt and your back?

00:28:02.900 | - Yes, I'm very flexible.

00:28:04.820 | So I have a good, my rubber guard is pretty good.

00:28:07.860 | Yeah, I have good arm bars and good triangles off my back,

00:28:10.620 | but I also have a very good half guard,

00:28:14.020 | but my top game is my best.

00:28:16.100 | I have a very strong top game.

00:28:18.500 | - Do you have a half guard?

00:28:19.500 | Do you have a preference of what kind of guard

00:28:21.980 | and how to pass that guard?

00:28:23.460 | And like, yeah, like, is there a specific game plan?

00:28:28.460 | Like, do you--

00:28:29.500 | - Double under hooks from half guard is the game plan for me.

00:28:32.780 | If I can get double under hooks from half guard,

00:28:34.700 | I could sweep a lot of people.

00:28:36.300 | - Under hooks of what?

00:28:37.980 | Sorry, the arms or the legs?

00:28:38.820 | - So half guard, lock down, right?

00:28:41.020 | Half guard, go into lock down, double under hooks.

00:28:44.180 | - Got it.

00:28:45.020 | - Clinch to the body, suck the body and tight.

00:28:46.700 | - Just pressure.

00:28:47.540 | - And yeah, massive pressure.

00:28:48.820 | And then inch my way into a position,

00:28:51.660 | we call the dog fight,

00:28:52.740 | and inch my way into a position

00:28:54.340 | where I could get the person on their back.

00:28:56.700 | - Yeah, that's what, 'cause you did show me,

00:28:58.500 | I still disagree with you about the tie thing.

00:29:00.900 | - The tie?

00:29:01.740 | - That you can choke somebody with the tie.

00:29:02.580 | - Oh, tie as well.

00:29:03.420 | - So wrong, so wrong.

00:29:05.180 | - Well, it's not wrong with you.

00:29:06.460 | With you, it's wrong 'cause you--

00:29:08.300 | - No, I think there's a system.

00:29:09.460 | I have this thing with Don and her,

00:29:11.900 | we're gonna figure it out.

00:29:12.980 | Okay, but--

00:29:13.820 | - You just have a little Velcro in the back.

00:29:16.060 | - No, but see, you're just not the--

00:29:17.660 | - You're cheating.

00:29:18.500 | - You're not, yeah, exactly, that's cheating.

00:29:19.980 | (Lex laughing)

00:29:21.660 | Yeah, you did, I did feel when you showed me,

00:29:24.260 | I think you showed me the rubber guard,

00:29:25.980 | 'cause it's still a guard.

00:29:27.060 | That's a little bit foreign to me.

00:29:28.300 | I just felt that you can immediately feel,

00:29:30.960 | not with the rubber guard,

00:29:32.100 | but the way you move your body is,

00:29:34.620 | you're like a Shanji type of guy

00:29:37.900 | who knows how to control another human being.

00:29:40.580 | So like, some people are a little bit more,

00:29:43.380 | I would say, agile and technical,

00:29:44.980 | like playful and kind of--

00:29:47.220 | - Loose.

00:29:48.060 | - Loose, and they work on transition, transition, transition.

00:29:51.780 | You're a control guy.

00:29:52.940 | Like, you know how to control position

00:29:54.700 | and advance position.

00:29:56.240 | Don and her is the same way.

00:29:57.340 | He's all about control.

00:29:58.500 | - My game is smush.

00:30:00.420 | That's my game, smush you.

00:30:02.300 | Grab ahold of you.

00:30:03.220 | Once I have you, why would I let you go?

00:30:04.980 | That's my thought, is like, why would I let you go?

00:30:06.900 | I just wanna incrementally move to a better position

00:30:09.740 | until I can strangle you.

00:30:11.340 | But I'm much more into strangling people

00:30:14.380 | than anything else.

00:30:15.420 | - Yeah, which is a great MMA--

00:30:17.420 | - Yeah.

00:30:18.260 | - Approach for jiu-jitsu.

00:30:20.620 | - Well, too many people don't tap when you get their arms.

00:30:24.380 | And I'm not opposed to arm bars.

00:30:26.460 | I love arm bars, but everybody goes to sleep.

00:30:29.660 | - Yep.

00:30:30.780 | And quit from pressure too.

00:30:33.180 | I mean, quit mentally.

00:30:35.580 | There's nothing like that.

00:30:36.420 | - You can't breathe.

00:30:37.620 | If you got a guy who's like a really good top game guy

00:30:40.180 | and he mounts you, and I'm a big fan of mounting

00:30:42.900 | with my legs crossed, like a guard,

00:30:45.840 | like a top guard, and so I can squeeze with both legs,

00:30:50.840 | smush, and I'm just looking for people to make mistakes

00:30:54.980 | and slowly, incrementally bettering my position

00:30:57.820 | until I can get something locked up.

00:31:00.140 | I love jiu-jitsu though, man.

00:31:01.340 | I just wish it didn't injure you.

00:31:02.820 | - Yeah.

00:31:03.660 | - Jiu-jitsu is like, if your joints were more durable,

00:31:06.540 | they could figure out a way to make joints more durable.

00:31:08.740 | God, I could do jiu-jitsu forever.

00:31:10.660 | - Yeah. - So much fun.

00:31:12.340 | - I actually, I talked to this roboticist,

00:31:14.900 | Russ Tedrick, he builds, he's one of the world-class people

00:31:17.880 | that builds humanoid robots.

00:31:19.280 | You were interested in Boston Dynamics.

00:31:20.720 | - Yeah. - He's one of the key people

00:31:21.920 | in that kind of robotics.

00:31:23.440 | So I asked him the stupidest question of like,

00:31:25.560 | how far are we from having a robot be a UFC champion?

00:31:30.140 | (Lex laughing)

00:31:31.520 | And yeah, it's actually a really, really tough problem.

00:31:34.200 | It's the same thing that makes somebody like Daniel Comey

00:31:39.200 | on the wrestling side special,

00:31:41.160 | 'cause you have to understand the movement

00:31:42.600 | of the human body in ways that's so difficult to teach.

00:31:45.960 | It's so subtle, the timing, the pressure points,

00:31:49.000 | the leverage, all those kinds of things.

00:31:50.720 | That's just for the clinch situation.

00:31:52.920 | And then the movement for the striking is very difficult.

00:31:56.680 | As long as you're not allowed as a robot

00:31:58.880 | to use your natural abilities of having a lot more power.

00:32:03.600 | - Right, a lot more power and more durable.

00:32:06.520 | - Right. - The human body,

00:32:08.000 | especially meniscus, you see the heel hook game,

00:32:12.240 | everybody's involved in leg locks and heel hooks.

00:32:15.280 | All those guys wind up with torched knees.

00:32:18.200 | Everyone's got torched knees.

00:32:19.560 | Everyone's knees are torn apart.

00:32:21.440 | And you don't grow new meniscus.

00:32:23.640 | That's like one of those joints where, man, when it goes,

00:32:26.920 | and those guys are 28 years old, have blown out knees.

00:32:31.760 | - Let me ask the ridiculous question.

00:32:33.040 | What do you think, we're talking about cops,

00:32:34.680 | so what do you think is the best martial arts

00:32:36.880 | for self-defense?

00:32:38.320 | - For sure, jujitsu.

00:32:39.560 | Yeah, for sure. - Wrestling?

00:32:41.080 | - I think grappling, I should say.

00:32:43.760 | Judo as well, especially in a cold climate,

00:32:46.200 | if you get someone who's got a heavy winter jacket on,

00:32:48.760 | my God, judo's an incredible martial art.

00:32:50.680 | - Plus concrete.

00:32:51.640 | - That's the worst place to be,

00:32:54.640 | with a heavy winter jacket with a judo specialist,

00:32:57.520 | and you're standing up with them, oh my God.

00:33:00.360 | But I think grappling,

00:33:01.920 | because in most self-defense situations,

00:33:03.840 | it usually winds up with grappling.

00:33:05.800 | You're definitely better off, though,

00:33:07.320 | knowing some striking,

00:33:08.760 | 'cause there's nothing more terrifying

00:33:10.240 | than when you go to take someone down,

00:33:11.600 | they actually have takedown skills, but they can fight.

00:33:14.480 | And so they have takedown defense,

00:33:16.320 | and they know how to fight,

00:33:17.360 | and then you don't know how to stand up.

00:33:19.560 | The worst thing in the world

00:33:20.400 | is seeing someone reaching,

00:33:21.680 | who doesn't know how to do striking,

00:33:23.800 | and someone cracks you.

00:33:25.320 | - What about all that Krav Maga talk,

00:33:27.240 | which is the whole line of argument

00:33:30.080 | that says that jujitsu and wrestling,

00:33:31.760 | and all of these sports,

00:33:33.240 | they fundamentally take you away

00:33:35.040 | from the nature of violence.

00:33:36.320 | So they're just teaching you how to play,

00:33:39.360 | versus the reality of violence

00:33:44.160 | that is involved in a self-defense situation,

00:33:47.820 | that a totally different set of skills would be needed.

00:33:52.040 | - In general, the people that say

00:33:54.160 | that jujitsu or other martial arts,

00:33:56.900 | it's more of a sport,

00:33:59.720 | and they don't really understand violence,

00:34:03.880 | in general, the people that say that suck.

00:34:06.160 | - Yeah.

00:34:08.160 | - Anybody who thinks,

00:34:09.880 | someone's like, "Hey man, I'll just bite you."

00:34:12.000 | I'm like, "Are you gonna bite me?

00:34:13.640 | "Okay, do you think I'm gonna bite you too?

00:34:15.880 | "What do you think of that?

00:34:16.760 | "What if I punch you in your fucking face?

00:34:18.440 | "You think you're still gonna bite me

00:34:19.800 | "when you can't even see?

00:34:21.440 | "When you barely even know you're alive,

00:34:23.920 | "and I choke you unconscious?"

00:34:25.560 | If someone's really good at jujitsu,

00:34:27.440 | good luck stabbing them with your keys.

00:34:29.880 | You don't have a chance.

00:34:31.400 | You don't have a chance.

00:34:32.240 | If someone's much better at you,

00:34:33.060 | and they trip you, and get you on your back,

00:34:35.440 | and then they fucking elbow you in your face,

00:34:37.680 | and then get a head and arm choke on you,

00:34:39.480 | all that Krav Maga shit's out the window, son.

00:34:41.840 | You're way better off learning what works on trained killers.

00:34:46.840 | Like this whole idea that you're gonna poke someone

00:34:48.920 | in the eye, and then you're gonna kick them in the nuts.

00:34:50.800 | Like you're going through these drills,

00:34:53.280 | that yeah, it's good to know what to do

00:34:55.560 | if you run into someone who doesn't know how to fight.

00:34:57.800 | It's way better to know what to do

00:35:00.200 | to someone who knows how to fight.

00:35:02.240 | That's the best thing.

00:35:03.800 | Learn how to fight against people who know how to fight.

00:35:07.320 | Like all that practice self-defense,

00:35:09.920 | and they're gonna come at you with a knife,

00:35:11.680 | you're gonna grab the wrist and do that.

00:35:13.240 | Like it's good to know self-defense,

00:35:16.800 | but it's much more important to understand martial arts

00:35:20.440 | comprehensively.

00:35:22.080 | When you understand martial arts comprehensively,

00:35:24.360 | like there's no Krav,

00:35:25.720 | I shouldn't say there's no Krav Maga guys,

00:35:27.400 | but it would be shocking if a Krav Maga guy,

00:35:32.000 | and a mixed martial arts guy had a fight,

00:35:34.520 | and the mixed martial arts guy was a trained killer

00:35:36.960 | all around, didn't fuck that guy up.

00:35:39.360 | That's what I would expect would happen.

00:35:41.920 | I would not think that some guy

00:35:44.640 | who has a little bit of this and a little bit of that,

00:35:48.040 | and prepares for the streets,

00:35:49.920 | is gonna be able to handle a person who trains with killers

00:35:53.280 | on a day-to-day basis, who rolls with jiu-jitsu black belts,

00:35:56.280 | who trains with Muay Thai champions.

00:35:58.200 | The best martial arts are the martial arts

00:36:01.800 | that work on martial artists,

00:36:03.760 | not the martial arts that work on untrained people.

00:36:06.360 | - What about, we're in Texas now, what about guns?

00:36:09.360 | - Well, that's the best martial art.

00:36:10.720 | - No, but would you, in this crazy time,

00:36:14.920 | should people carry guns?

00:36:17.000 | - It's not a bad idea to have a gun,

00:36:19.160 | because if you need a gun, you have a gun.

00:36:22.200 | And if you don't need a gun,

00:36:24.000 | if you're a person with self-control,

00:36:25.640 | you're not gonna use it.

00:36:26.800 | You're not gonna just randomly use it,

00:36:28.440 | but you have something to protect you.

00:36:30.440 | This is the whole idea of the Second Amendment.

00:36:32.240 | The whole idea of the Second Amendment

00:36:33.280 | gets distorted by mass shootings,

00:36:34.900 | or by terrible people who murder people

00:36:37.160 | and do terrible things.

00:36:38.040 | But all those things are real,

00:36:40.880 | but they don't take away from the fundamental efficacy

00:36:45.880 | of having a firearm and defending your family,

00:36:49.160 | or defending your life.

00:36:50.720 | And there are real live situations

00:36:53.160 | where people have had firearms,

00:36:55.480 | and it's protected them, or their loved ones,

00:36:58.120 | or they've stopped shooters.

00:37:00.160 | There's many of these stories,

00:37:01.600 | but people don't like those stories,

00:37:02.800 | because then it tends to lead to this gun culture argument,

00:37:06.740 | this pro-gun culture argument

00:37:08.500 | that people find very uncomfortable.

00:37:11.180 | Human beings are messy,

00:37:12.980 | and we're messy in so many different ways.

00:37:15.260 | We're messy emotionally, we're messy physically,

00:37:19.020 | but we're also messy in what's good or bad.

00:37:22.100 | We want things to be binary.

00:37:23.740 | We want things to be right or wrong, one or zero.

00:37:27.260 | And they're not.

00:37:28.540 | But there is crime in the world,

00:37:31.260 | and there is violence in the world,

00:37:32.700 | and you're better off knowing how to fight,

00:37:35.040 | and you're better off knowing how to defend yourself,

00:37:37.760 | and you're better off having a gun.

00:37:39.580 | - And I generally think that guns,

00:37:41.880 | I do like the idea that guns,

00:37:44.500 | Second Amendment helps protect the First Amendment.

00:37:46.500 | There's a kind of sense that puts me at ease

00:37:50.220 | knowing that so many people in this country have guns,

00:37:53.500 | that, I mean, Alex Jones,

00:37:55.500 | I just listened to one episode of "Info Wars"

00:37:58.380 | for the first time.

00:38:00.060 | Boy, he reminds me like when I drank some tequila,

00:38:03.620 | I felt like I'm going to some dark places today.

00:38:06.500 | That's how I feel like listening to him.

00:38:08.580 | But he talks about like that it's,

00:38:12.260 | he worries about martial law.

00:38:14.600 | So basically government overreach

00:38:16.460 | by which happened throughout history.

00:38:18.760 | Like there's something to worry about there,

00:38:21.700 | but it puts me at ease knowing

00:38:23.820 | that so much of the population has guns

00:38:26.700 | that people, government would think twice

00:38:29.180 | before instituting martial law in cities.

00:38:32.300 | But I actually was asking,

00:38:34.140 | almost like on the individual level,

00:38:36.320 | I maybe shouldn't say this, but I don't yet own a gun.

00:38:40.500 | And I felt that if I carry a gun,

00:38:44.260 | statistically, just for me as a human,

00:38:46.260 | knowing my psychology, I feel like I'm more likely to die.

00:38:49.940 | Like I feel like I would put myself in situations

00:38:53.700 | that I shouldn't.

00:38:54.520 | Like the way I will see the world will change.

00:38:57.660 | Because my natural feeling is like when somebody,

00:39:01.260 | when I was in Philly and I knew late at night,

00:39:04.260 | if West Philly, when some guy looks at you,

00:39:08.440 | you can immediately calculate

00:39:09.960 | that this is a dangerous human being.

00:39:12.580 | It starts with a monkey look at first,

00:39:14.660 | like I'm a bigger monkey than you.

00:39:17.220 | And that's where I found like, for example,

00:39:19.280 | I'll do the beta thing of just looking down and turning away

00:39:21.700 | and just getting out of trouble, like very politely.

00:39:25.140 | And basically that kind of approach,

00:39:28.100 | because if you have, in terms of getting out

00:39:31.300 | of serious violent situations,

00:39:32.820 | like serious something where you could die,

00:39:35.580 | versus if I had a gun, I feel like I would want to be,

00:39:39.500 | that would be that cowboy monkey thing

00:39:43.080 | where I would want to put myself in situations

00:39:45.640 | where I'm a little bit of a savior, even of myself,

00:39:48.780 | and almost create danger, which can no longer,

00:39:53.180 | like the escalation of which I can no longer control.

00:39:57.100 | - Well, you're talking about taking a gun somewhere

00:39:59.140 | versus having a gun in your home.

00:40:00.660 | - Yes, yes, I mean carry on me.

00:40:02.180 | - That's a different situation and much harder

00:40:04.460 | to get a warrant or a license for that.

00:40:07.860 | Control, concealed carry licenses,

00:40:10.380 | especially in Massachusetts, they don't come easy.

00:40:12.300 | - Well, Massachusetts, yeah, that's a whole nother thing.

00:40:14.060 | - Yeah.

00:40:14.900 | - You're saying gun in the home.

00:40:16.400 | - Yeah, gun in the home, having a gun,

00:40:18.540 | knowing how to use a gun.

00:40:19.940 | Like I know how to use a gun.

00:40:21.080 | I've trained many hours learning how to shoot a gun

00:40:25.260 | at tactical places.

00:40:27.300 | There's a bunch of videos of me doing it on Instagram.

00:40:31.400 | I practice and I think it's good to understand

00:40:34.580 | to how to be accurate.

00:40:36.180 | - So I've been a fan of your podcast for a long time.

00:40:38.900 | You don't often talk about it

00:40:40.820 | 'cause you're always kind of looking forward,

00:40:42.300 | but if you look at the old studio that you just left,

00:40:45.760 | is there some epic memories that stand out to you

00:40:49.020 | that you almost look back, I can't believe this happened?

00:40:53.840 | - Oh yeah, almost too many of them to count.

00:40:57.040 | - Is there something that pops into mind now?

00:40:58.400 | - All of them, Elon Musk blowing that flamethrower

00:41:01.340 | in the middle of the hallway.

00:41:02.960 | I've got a video of that.

00:41:04.320 | Have you seen the video of it?

00:41:05.440 | - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you posted it on Instagram.

00:41:07.000 | - I think I did too.

00:41:08.120 | Yeah, he's a madman.

00:41:09.800 | Having Bernie Sanders in there,

00:41:11.600 | just all the fun fight companions we did

00:41:16.180 | and all the crazy podcasts with Joey Diaz

00:41:18.800 | and Duncan Trussell and there was so many,

00:41:21.280 | there were so many moments.

00:41:22.680 | Podcasts, this is a weird art form

00:41:27.760 | and it almost seems like, sounds silly,

00:41:30.960 | but it almost seems like something that chose me

00:41:32.820 | rather than I chose it.

00:41:34.520 | I think of that all the time in some strange way.

00:41:36.960 | It's like I'm showing up as like an antenna

00:41:40.440 | and I just plug in and twist on

00:41:43.280 | and then I take in the thing and I put it together

00:41:46.840 | and I'm like a passenger of this weird ride.

00:41:49.880 | - Yeah, you've talked about this before.

00:41:51.680 | I really like this idea of that human beings

00:41:55.800 | are just carriers of these ideas.

00:41:57.880 | Ideas are the ones who are breeding.

00:41:59.960 | So in a sense, the idea found you as a useful brain

00:42:02.980 | to use to spread itself through the podcasting medium.

00:42:06.400 | 'Cause when I think about your podcast,

00:42:12.720 | I think about Joey Diaz.

00:42:13.880 | I think about all those comedians you've had.

00:42:16.240 | I mean, I think you've had Joey on,

00:42:18.640 | I mean, maybe close to 50 times, 60, some crazy number.

00:42:22.840 | Is there, I mean, he is over the top offensive,

00:42:27.840 | just that's who he is to the core.

00:42:30.680 | Is there some sense where you wondered

00:42:35.680 | like whether it's right to have the Spotify episode

00:42:41.640 | number one with Duncan Dressel for five hours?

00:42:44.880 | - No.

00:42:45.920 | I wanted to do it that way.

00:42:47.240 | That's why we wore NASA suits and we got high as fuck.

00:42:51.000 | It's like, that's the whole idea behind it.

00:42:53.240 | - I mean, can you introspect that a little bit?

00:42:54.880 | Like, can you think, like, what is that?

00:42:56.200 | 'Cause that's rare.

00:42:57.320 | It's such a rare thing to do because you're not supposed

00:43:02.320 | to talk to Duncan Dressel with a huge platform

00:43:06.760 | that you have five hours.

00:43:08.360 | - Why not?

00:43:09.480 | - Because Donald Trump apparently watches your podcast.

00:43:12.720 | (laughing)

00:43:14.800 | - So just the idea that there's these,

00:43:16.640 | I mean, that's what I think about these CEOs, right,

00:43:19.600 | to me, that they listen to the podcast that I do.

00:43:23.280 | And I have somebody like a David Fravor,

00:43:26.400 | and I was nervous about it.

00:43:27.840 | I was nervous to have a conversation.

00:43:29.400 | For me, David Fravor is a Duncan Dressel, which is like--

00:43:33.160 | - Just because of his experiences with UFOs.

00:43:36.400 | - Yeah, even just the way he sees the world

00:43:39.080 | because he is open, I don't know if he's always like this,

00:43:41.400 | but he opened himself to the possibility

00:43:43.640 | of unconventional ideas.

00:43:45.840 | Most people in the scientific community kinda say,

00:43:48.720 | well, I don't really wanna believe anything

00:43:50.400 | that doesn't have a lot of hard evidence.

00:43:52.960 | And so that was to me like a step.

00:43:55.000 | And as the thing somehow becomes more popular,

00:43:58.400 | there becomes this fear of like,

00:44:01.040 | well, should I talk to this person or not?

00:44:04.200 | And I mean, you're an inspiration in saying like,

00:44:06.960 | do whatever the hell you want.

00:44:08.200 | - You have to.

00:44:09.800 | - First of all, I have what you call fuck you money.

00:44:14.120 | And if you have fuck you money, you don't say fuck you.

00:44:16.240 | What's the point of having the fuck you money?

00:44:18.240 | You're wasting it.

00:44:19.640 | Like you're wasting the position.

00:44:21.120 | Like someone said to me like,

00:44:22.840 | why do you like sports cars so much?

00:44:24.640 | Like how many cars do you have?

00:44:25.720 | A bunch of cars.

00:44:26.560 | 'Cause if I was a kid and I said,

00:44:28.760 | hey, if I was that crazy, rich, famous guy,

00:44:31.400 | like I don't wanna have a bunch of cool fucking cars.

00:44:34.000 | Like, so I would do that.

00:44:36.240 | Like, 'cause not everybody gets to do that.

00:44:39.080 | Like if you're the person that gets to do that,

00:44:40.960 | you're kind of supposed to do it.

00:44:42.640 | Like that's, if you want to,

00:44:44.720 | if that really does speak to you.

00:44:46.320 | And, you know, I've talked to you about this before,

00:44:49.520 | muscle cars, specifically ones from the 1960s

00:44:53.480 | and the early '70s, they speak to me in some weird way, man.

00:44:56.680 | I could just stare at them.

00:44:57.920 | Like I have a '65 Corvette.

00:44:59.560 | I walk around it sometimes at night when no one's around.

00:45:02.520 | I just stare at it.

00:45:03.360 | - What's your favorite muscle car?

00:45:05.600 | Like what's your most badass late '60s, the perfect car?

00:45:09.840 | - Probably that car.

00:45:10.680 | Probably that '65 Corvette. - '65 Corvette.

00:45:12.600 | - Yeah, I walk around it when no one's around.

00:45:15.400 | - I think I'm drawing the '69 Corvette.

00:45:17.040 | Is there a particular year that just--

00:45:19.640 | - '65 is a generation two.

00:45:22.240 | '69 is generation three.

00:45:24.080 | '69 is like the, it's even more curvy.

00:45:26.880 | They're both awesome, just awesome in different ways.

00:45:29.580 | But I just love muscle cars for whatever reason.

00:45:33.280 | But the point is, I like what I like,

00:45:36.200 | and if I can do what I wanna do,

00:45:38.200 | I should do what I wanna do.

00:45:39.400 | And it's not hurting anybody.

00:45:41.000 | And the thing is, I would do the Duncan podcast

00:45:43.920 | if no one was listening, right?

00:45:45.840 | If we were just starting to do a podcast together

00:45:48.300 | and no one cared and it got like 2,000 views,

00:45:50.840 | which we did for years. - Yeah, for a long time.

00:45:53.360 | - I would do it with Duncan and we would get high

00:45:54.920 | and we'd talk crazy shit about aliens and spaceships

00:45:57.640 | and maybe, dude, maybe ideas are living life forms

00:46:01.000 | and they're inside your head

00:46:02.000 | and that's how things get made. - Man.

00:46:03.680 | - Yeah, man.

00:46:04.520 | (laughing)

00:46:06.000 | It just kind of morphed me and him together in that

00:46:08.040 | because the life form idea, life form idea is mine

00:46:11.600 | that I really think about a lot.

00:46:14.080 | - I think about it on a technical side, by the way.

00:46:17.040 | When I heard you say that, 'cause I've been thinking,

00:46:18.920 | I was like, whoa, that's interesting.

00:46:21.320 | - They might be alive because they,

00:46:24.480 | I don't know what the fuck they are,

00:46:25.720 | but when someone has an idea for whatever,

00:46:29.040 | an invention, a toaster,

00:46:30.560 | and then they think about this,

00:46:32.400 | all it'd need is like these heating elements and a spring

00:46:35.440 | and then it pops when it's done, so I have a timer,

00:46:37.840 | and then they build this thing.

00:46:39.280 | Now all of a sudden it's alive.

00:46:40.760 | It's like you manifested it in a physical form.

00:46:43.440 | Toaster's not the best example, but a car, an airplane,

00:46:47.400 | you're thinking about a thing,

00:46:49.080 | like an idea comes into your head

00:46:51.480 | and you can say, oh, well, it's just creativity,

00:46:53.400 | it's a part of being a person,

00:46:54.400 | it's how we invented tools

00:46:56.120 | and how we became better hunters.

00:46:58.640 | All those things are true.

00:47:00.400 | I'm not saying that there's some magic to what I'm saying,

00:47:04.400 | but there's also a possibility

00:47:07.080 | that we're simplifying something

00:47:09.640 | by saying that it's just creativity,

00:47:11.640 | that it's just a natural human inclination to invent things.

00:47:15.120 | But why?

00:47:17.040 | Is it possible that ideas, like creativity,

00:47:20.640 | like we are the only animal,

00:47:22.640 | other than there's a few species that create things

00:47:25.720 | like bees make beehives,

00:47:27.880 | but they're very uniform.

00:47:29.600 | Some animals use tools,

00:47:32.200 | like chimps will use sticks to get termites

00:47:35.720 | and things like that.

00:47:36.560 | But there's something about what we do

00:47:39.520 | that it makes you wonder,

00:47:41.840 | 'cause we look at the,

00:47:42.920 | just look at this room that we're in,

00:47:44.640 | look at all these electronics,

00:47:46.400 | look at all this crazy shit that human beings have invented

00:47:50.320 | and then built upon others' inventions

00:47:52.400 | and improved and innovated.

00:47:54.080 | These all came out of ideas.

00:47:57.320 | The idea, it germinates in someone's head,

00:48:02.160 | it bounces around, they write it down,

00:48:04.080 | they share it with others,

00:48:05.480 | the other people who have similar ideas

00:48:07.360 | or ideas that are complementary,

00:48:08.840 | they work together and they change the world.

00:48:12.440 | - And the new thing in that is the ideas, not the people.

00:48:15.040 | It's like, we think we found the ideas,

00:48:16.960 | but it's more like the ideas found us.

00:48:19.520 | - Find you, yeah.

00:48:20.440 | They're literally in the air.

00:48:22.680 | They come to you.

00:48:24.440 | I always felt like that with bits.

00:48:26.160 | When I come up with a bit,

00:48:27.920 | that's why I'm always telling people

00:48:29.760 | about the Steven Pressfield book, "The War of Art,"

00:48:32.640 | because he talks about respecting the muse

00:48:35.400 | and the idea that your ideas come when you sit down

00:48:40.040 | and you do the work,

00:48:40.920 | or you sit down like a professional

00:48:42.360 | and you talk to the muse, like, "Tell me what to do."

00:48:45.720 | Like if the muse was a real thing,

00:48:47.680 | as if a muse is like some mystical creature

00:48:50.880 | that comes and delivers you ideas,

00:48:53.560 | even if that's not real, that's how it works.

00:48:56.720 | It does work like that.

00:48:57.840 | If you do treat it like it's a muse

00:49:00.080 | and you treat it with the respect

00:49:01.560 | and you treat it like a professional,

00:49:03.680 | the ideas do come to you.

00:49:05.040 | - I never thought about what he's doing.

00:49:06.320 | He's just sitting there waiting for the idea

00:49:08.800 | that's trying to breed to find him.

00:49:10.920 | - Yeah.

00:49:11.760 | - That's a trippy thing.

00:49:13.240 | - If you show up. - It's trippy.

00:49:14.760 | - If you show up and put in the time

00:49:16.560 | and focus your energy on that,

00:49:19.040 | the ideas, they will arrive.

00:49:22.480 | They will arrive.

00:49:23.400 | And that's the same with writing comedy.

00:49:25.440 | Like this has been many, many times

00:49:26.840 | where I'll come home from the comedy store

00:49:28.600 | and I just sit down and I start writing

00:49:30.400 | and I just, I got nothing.

00:49:32.080 | There's nothing there.

00:49:32.920 | I'm just writing a small bullshit.

00:49:35.160 | Nothing's good.

00:49:36.120 | It's just like, hmm, hmm.

00:49:37.440 | And then all of a sudden, bam, there's the idea.

00:49:40.600 | And then all of a sudden I can't stop.

00:49:43.480 | And then, you know, a couple hours later,

00:49:45.160 | and I'm like, "Whoa."

00:49:46.240 | And then the next night I'm on stage

00:49:47.680 | and I'm like, "How about that?"

00:49:49.560 | Boom, it gets this big laugh.

00:49:51.240 | I'm like, "Holy shit."

00:49:52.720 | And I know that came out of the discipline

00:49:55.400 | to sit down and call the muse.

00:49:57.560 | - I mean, the cool thing is the ideas

00:49:59.520 | have found you to like, "Oh, I'm gonna use this dude.

00:50:03.680 | "Like he seems to have a podcast that's popular.

00:50:06.400 | "I'm gonna breed inside his brain

00:50:08.960 | "and spread it to others."

00:50:10.160 | It's the same as--

00:50:11.880 | - Or an inventor.

00:50:12.800 | You know, I'm gonna use this guy

00:50:13.960 | who's like desperately seeking some sort of a product

00:50:16.840 | to bring to market.

00:50:17.680 | Some guy who wants to invent things.

00:50:19.120 | He's thinking about inventing things all the time.

00:50:21.160 | Like these ideas, they weasel their way into your head.

00:50:24.160 | And it seems to me also that the frequency

00:50:28.960 | that your mind operates under has to be correct.

00:50:32.900 | Because one of the things about creativity seems to be

00:50:34.960 | if you think about yourself a lot,

00:50:36.920 | if you're really into yourself or your image

00:50:40.160 | or you're selfish, those ideas, they don't find you.

00:50:45.160 | - Yeah, it's funny.

00:50:46.400 | It stifles the creative, yeah, yeah.

00:50:49.280 | It stifles the opportunity that the idea has

00:50:51.640 | for defining it.

00:50:52.480 | - Yes, which is one of the reasons why joke thieves,

00:50:55.000 | people that steal jokes, are terrible writers.

00:50:57.560 | There's never like really good writers

00:50:58.840 | who are also joke thieves.

00:51:00.400 | It's just joke thieves and then, you know,

00:51:03.920 | when they have to write on their own, if they get exposed,

00:51:05.920 | they become terrible comedians.

00:51:08.080 | They're a shadow of what they were

00:51:11.200 | when they were stealing other people's ideas.

00:51:13.000 | Because the thing that would make you steal a person's idea

00:51:16.360 | is that ego part.

00:51:17.920 | The wanting to claim it for yourself,

00:51:20.360 | the wanting to be the man or the woman.

00:51:23.080 | You know, I wanna be the person who gets out there

00:51:24.800 | and says it and everybody's gonna love me for it.

00:51:27.440 | Like, you can't think like that and be creative.

00:51:30.820 | It requires a humility and it requires a detachment

00:51:34.960 | from self in order to create.

00:51:36.800 | Like, when I'm writing, I'm blank.

00:51:39.360 | I'm like, I'm just staring.

00:51:40.760 | I'm like, I'm just, the part of my mind that's active

00:51:44.240 | is not like me.

00:51:45.920 | It's like this weird core function part

00:51:49.200 | where I'm not aware of my personality.

00:51:53.720 | I'm not aware of anything.

00:51:56.080 | I'm just trying to put it together

00:51:58.160 | in a way that I know works.

00:52:00.280 | - Yeah, just being there, being present.

00:52:01.720 | That's the Crestfield is just,

00:52:03.000 | I'm a big believer, just sitting there.

00:52:04.920 | Even staring at a blank page.

00:52:06.920 | - You have to. - Putting in the time.

00:52:08.160 | - Yeah, and sometimes it's not that way.

00:52:10.160 | Sometimes it's an inspiration.

00:52:11.440 | Like, sometimes I'll be sitting there at dinner

00:52:13.480 | and I'll be like, I got an idea.

00:52:15.320 | I know my wife's really cool about that.

00:52:16.960 | I'm like, I have an idea.

00:52:18.000 | And I have to just run out of the room real quick

00:52:20.680 | and I write it down on my phone and then I can come back.

00:52:23.640 | Because those are like little gifts

00:52:25.840 | that you get sometimes from the universe out of nowhere.

00:52:28.400 | And some people rely only on those gifts.

00:52:31.520 | You know, and I've talked to comics about it.

00:52:33.120 | They're like, oh, I come up with my best ideas

00:52:34.800 | when I don't write.

00:52:35.640 | I'm like, no, I do too.

00:52:37.480 | I come up with great ideas when I don't write,

00:52:39.160 | but I also write.

00:52:40.520 | Like, you can do both of those things.

00:52:41.880 | They're not mutually exclusive.

00:52:44.720 | - You mentioned fuck you money.

00:52:46.880 | I feel like I have fuck you money now.

00:52:49.320 | A year ago I was at zero.

00:52:51.040 | I have fuck you money now because probably my standard is,

00:52:54.040 | I don't need much in this world.

00:52:56.960 | But because also, probably because of you,

00:53:00.160 | but it's 300 to 400,000 people listen to every episode I do.

00:53:04.600 | - That's a lot.

00:53:05.480 | - And that is weird.

00:53:07.000 | - That's a successful television show on cable.

00:53:09.320 | - Yeah, it's crazy.

00:53:10.320 | - It's all you.

00:53:11.160 | - Yeah, it's hilarious.

00:53:12.480 | - That's amazing.

00:53:13.320 | But at this point, that also resulted in a few money

00:53:17.400 | in a sense that I don't need anything else in this world.

00:53:22.120 | But so by way of asking, I've looked up,

00:53:25.840 | you've inspired me for a long time.

00:53:28.560 | Do you have advice?

00:53:29.800 | You've done this on the podcast side of life.

00:53:33.680 | Do you have advice for somebody like,

00:53:36.080 | for me and somebody like me going on this journey?

00:53:40.480 | Eric Weinstein is going on this journey.

00:53:43.360 | Is there advice, both small and big,

00:53:47.520 | that you have for somebody like me?

00:53:49.280 | - The advice is to keep doing what feels right to you

00:53:53.480 | and do what you're doing.

00:53:55.040 | Obviously, it's resonating with people

00:53:56.960 | if you're getting that big of an audience.

00:53:58.520 | And I've listened to your podcast.

00:53:59.760 | You're very good at it.

00:54:00.840 | So just keep doing it the way you're doing it.

00:54:04.240 | Don't let anybody else get involved.

00:54:06.760 | - What about, you've connected,

00:54:09.000 | I think you met Jamie at the Comedy Store.

00:54:11.120 | - I met him at the Ice House.

00:54:12.560 | - At the Ice House?

00:54:13.400 | - Ice House.

00:54:14.240 | Well, I think I met him at the Comedy Store,

00:54:15.080 | but then we talked at the Ice House.

00:54:17.080 | - I mean, what--

00:54:17.920 | - You'd have to ask him.

00:54:18.760 | - Did you think deeply about,

00:54:20.600 | 'cause you basically have nobody on your team.

00:54:25.280 | And so it almost feels like a marriage.

00:54:27.760 | Were you selective about somebody

00:54:32.240 | to bring into your little circle?

00:54:34.280 | - Well, Jamie's exceptional.

00:54:35.960 | - He is, he's a special.

00:54:38.200 | I mean, he might've grown,

00:54:39.040 | I don't remember how he was in the early days,

00:54:40.680 | maybe you could say, but he's grown--

00:54:41.520 | - He's definitely better at it,

00:54:43.360 | but right away, he's exceptional.

00:54:45.400 | He's got very little ego.

00:54:47.960 | - Yes.

00:54:48.800 | - He's not a guy who needs a lot of attention.

00:54:51.000 | He's not a guy who overestimates anything,

00:54:56.000 | like in terms of negative or positive,

00:55:00.600 | like his interpretation of whether it's good things

00:55:05.600 | that happened to the show

00:55:07.160 | or bad things that happened to the show,

00:55:08.400 | he just takes it all flat.

00:55:10.880 | He's chill, he's just cool as fuck,

00:55:13.440 | and he's so smart, and he's so good as an audio engineer

00:55:17.200 | and as a podcast producer, he's the best.

00:55:19.880 | - But he's basically one of the only people

00:55:21.240 | on this whole team, so how do you find,

00:55:24.280 | I mean, when you let people in,

00:55:26.780 | I mean, I'm sure other people wanted to get involved,

00:55:29.920 | like why don't you have a co-host?

00:55:32.160 | You basically kind of, well--

00:55:34.760 | - Here's the problem with a co-host.

00:55:36.320 | Like when you and I are talking,

00:55:38.000 | when we're talking, I'm tuned in to you,

00:55:41.340 | and I'm waiting to hear what you're saying,

00:55:44.360 | and I'm listening, and I'm interpreting it,

00:55:46.480 | and then I'm calculating whether or not

00:55:48.840 | I have anything to say, whether to let you keep talking,

00:55:52.640 | whether I maybe have a question

00:55:54.320 | that lets you expand further,

00:55:56.160 | or whether I have a disagreement,

00:55:58.480 | or like there's a dance that's going on.

00:56:00.960 | Now when there's another person there chiming in too,

00:56:04.120 | it fucks the dance up.

00:56:05.440 | It's like dancing, like if you're doing a dance with someone

00:56:09.600 | like if you're slow dancing with someone,

00:56:11.800 | and then a third person's there

00:56:13.280 | stepping on everybody's feet. - It can be weird.

00:56:15.080 | - Sometimes it's fun.

00:56:16.480 | Sometimes having a third person is fun.

00:56:18.120 | Comedy podcast, sometimes it's fun.

00:56:20.520 | - Debate kind of structured. - Fight companions.

00:56:22.040 | Yeah, debate structures, but even then it gets difficult

00:56:24.480 | because people talk over each other,

00:56:25.840 | and also I find that without headphones

00:56:30.520 | it's way easier to talk over each other.

00:56:33.000 | You make mistakes.

00:56:34.160 | You don't hear it the same way.

00:56:36.080 | When you have headphones, I hear what you hear.

00:56:38.760 | It's all one sound, and the audience hears exactly,

00:56:43.760 | or rather I hear exactly what the audience hears.

00:56:46.720 | Whether it's over here, my voice is louder than yours

00:56:50.240 | 'cause you're over there,

00:56:51.280 | and if I don't have headphones on,

00:56:52.680 | it's not all together.

00:56:54.360 | - On that point, one of the interesting things

00:56:56.560 | about your show is you don't, almost never have done,

00:57:01.120 | and you generally don't do remote,

00:57:02.800 | like, sorry, not remote calls,

00:57:04.880 | but you don't go to another person's location.

00:57:07.500 | - We've only done a few, a small handful.

00:57:10.480 | - And just like, well, Sapolsky, he should do this.

00:57:13.880 | But I actually, we went back and forth on email.

00:57:16.200 | I told him he needs to get his ass back in the studio.

00:57:20.320 | He's working on a book.

00:57:21.480 | - I was a fan of his a long time ago

00:57:23.680 | because I became obsessed with toxoplasmosis,

00:57:26.280 | and I reached out to him a long time ago

00:57:31.440 | before he was willing to do it,

00:57:33.320 | but then I caught him in downtown LA.

00:57:35.760 | He was there for something else,

00:57:36.680 | and I just greedily snatched up an hour of his time.

00:57:40.520 | - Well, he doesn't get, I think,

00:57:41.800 | some of those folks don't get how much magic can happen

00:57:44.500 | in this podcast studio,

00:57:45.520 | like, bigger than anything they've ever done

00:57:48.440 | in terms of their work.

00:57:49.520 | I'm not talking about reach,

00:57:51.080 | but in terms of the discovery of new ideas.

00:57:54.000 | There's something magical about conversation.

00:57:58.040 | Somebody as brilliant as him,

00:58:00.040 | if he gives himself over to the conversation

00:58:03.040 | for multiple hours at a time,

00:58:04.680 | that's another place where you've been an inspiration,

00:58:06.920 | where I'm getting more and more confidence

00:58:10.920 | of telling people, like Elon Musk,

00:58:13.800 | that a lot of CEOs are like,

00:58:16.440 | well, he has 30 minutes on his schedule.

00:58:19.080 | I'm like, no, three hours.

00:58:22.080 | (both laughing)

00:58:25.440 | And then they're like, so some say no,

00:58:27.720 | and then they come back.

00:58:28.560 | Those people have started coming back to like,

00:58:30.280 | okay, we're starting to get it.

00:58:32.400 | They start to get it,

00:58:33.720 | and you're a rare beacon of hope in that sense,

00:58:37.000 | that there's some value in long form.

00:58:39.160 | They think that nobody wants to listen

00:58:41.440 | for more than 30 minutes.

00:58:43.560 | They think, like, I have nothing to say,

00:58:45.760 | but the reality is, if you just give yourself over

00:58:49.400 | to the three hours, just let it go,

00:58:52.320 | three hours, four hours, whatever it is,

00:58:54.600 | there's so much to discover

00:58:56.160 | about what you didn't even know you think.

00:58:58.560 | - Yeah, yeah, you have to be confident

00:59:01.000 | that you could do it,

00:59:02.360 | and in the beginning, I just did it

00:59:05.360 | because that's what I wanted to do,

00:59:07.360 | and no one was listening.

00:59:08.720 | So I've always been a curious person,

00:59:12.320 | so I've always been interested in listening

00:59:16.760 | to how people think about things

00:59:18.200 | and talking to people about their mindset

00:59:21.720 | and just expanding on my own ideas,

00:59:24.800 | just talking shit.

00:59:26.360 | And so we would have these podcasts,

00:59:28.400 | and they would go on forever,

00:59:29.400 | and my friend Ari, I never let this die down.

00:59:34.400 | Never let him forget this.

00:59:37.000 | He was always like, "You have to edit your podcast.

00:59:38.520 | "I'm telling you right now, you're fucking up."

00:59:40.160 | I go, "Why?"

00:59:41.440 | He's like, "Because people are not gonna listen to it."

00:59:43.040 | I go, "They don't have to."

00:59:44.640 | - Yeah.

00:59:45.480 | - I go, "You can listen to part of it."

00:59:46.560 | He goes, "Just do it.

00:59:47.960 | "I'm telling you, trust me.

00:59:49.320 | "Cut it down to 45 minutes, that's all you need."

00:59:51.840 | And I'm like, "No, no, I don't think you're right."

00:59:54.280 | I go, "I like listening to long-form things.

00:59:56.440 | "No one has that kind of time."

00:59:57.880 | I go, "Okay, I'm just gonna keep doing it this way."

01:00:01.480 | - And so stick to your gut.

01:00:03.440 | - No, he doesn't.

01:00:04.280 | His are like two and a half hours long now.

01:00:06.480 | - That's great.

01:00:07.680 | You won.

01:00:08.720 | But you wouldn't, like say,

01:00:10.080 | I mentioned to you this before,

01:00:11.440 | and this is gonna happen.

01:00:12.800 | It's actually made a lot of progress towards it.

01:00:14.440 | I'm gonna talk to Putin,

01:00:16.280 | but you wouldn't travel to Putin if you wanted to talk to?

01:00:19.040 | - Putin's a dangerous character.

01:00:21.160 | - He's not.

01:00:22.640 | He's not--

01:00:23.480 | - Have you talked to,

01:00:24.320 | have you seen the thing with Jerry Craft

01:00:26.440 | where they stole his Super Bowl ring?

01:00:27.880 | - Yeah, yeah, those.

01:00:29.680 | I think that was a little bit of misunderstanding.

01:00:31.640 | - Oh, really?

01:00:33.000 | I think it's a little bit,

01:00:33.840 | he just decided he's gonna steal that Super Bowl ring.

01:00:35.960 | - Kind of.

01:00:36.800 | I think there was a--

01:00:37.640 | - Kind of.

01:00:38.480 | Can I see your ring?

01:00:39.760 | He shows him his ring,

01:00:40.600 | and then he puts it on and says,

01:00:41.440 | "I can murder somebody with this ring."

01:00:43.160 | And then he walks off with it.

01:00:44.640 | - It's possible he did it.

01:00:46.000 | He's a big believer in displays of power.

01:00:50.360 | - Yeah.

01:00:51.200 | - So it's possible he did that.

01:00:53.680 | I think he sees himself as a tool

01:00:57.920 | with which to demonstrate that Russia

01:01:00.240 | still belongs on the stage of the big players.

01:01:03.560 | And so a lot of actions are selected through that lens.

01:01:07.800 | But in terms of a human being,

01:01:11.200 | outside of any of the evils that he may or may not have done,

01:01:16.040 | he is a really thoughtful, intelligent, fun human being.

01:01:21.720 | The wit and the depth from the JRE perspective

01:01:26.720 | is really interesting.

01:01:27.600 | I'm like his manager now, selling.

01:01:29.200 | (Luke laughs)

01:01:30.200 | He's a judo guy.

01:01:31.040 | - He's really good at judo.

01:01:33.240 | I have seen him practice judo.

01:01:35.240 | He's a legit black belt.

01:01:36.320 | - And not only that, he loves it.

01:01:39.040 | Not just skill-wise, but to talk about it,

01:01:41.320 | to reason about it, to think about it,

01:01:43.240 | to MMA as well.

01:01:44.520 | So, you know, it'd be a good conversation.

01:01:47.600 | But you wouldn't travel to him.

01:01:50.400 | (Luke laughs)

01:01:52.400 | - Well, that's, hold to your principles.

01:01:53.880 | So that's the core of the advice.

01:01:55.040 | Just hold to whatever--

01:01:56.240 | - I would rather, here's the thing.

01:01:58.840 | There's not a person that I have to have on the show.

01:02:04.200 | And I'm happy to talk to anybody.

01:02:06.340 | I'm just as happy to talk to you

01:02:08.240 | as I am to talk to Trump,

01:02:10.000 | as I am to, probably more happy to talk to you,

01:02:12.080 | as I am to talk to Mike Tyson,

01:02:13.800 | as I am to talk to Joey Diaz.

01:02:15.480 | I like talking to people.

01:02:17.120 | I enjoy doing podcasts.

01:02:19.120 | I enjoy talking to a variety of people.

01:02:21.560 | And I schedule them based on,

01:02:24.320 | I wanna like, I try not to get too many

01:02:26.520 | right-wing people in a row,

01:02:27.920 | or too many progressive people in a row.

01:02:29.520 | I don't wanna get repetitive.

01:02:31.160 | I try not to get too many fighters in a row.

01:02:33.280 | I try to balance it out, not too many comedians.

01:02:35.480 | Comedians are the one,

01:02:36.680 | one group where I can have three, four in a row,

01:02:39.840 | five in a row, 'cause that's my tribe.

01:02:42.160 | You know, those are my people.

01:02:43.360 | It's easy.

01:02:44.220 | We can talk about anything.

01:02:45.800 | It's a weird dance, you know?

01:02:48.080 | The conversations that you're doing on a podcast,

01:02:50.080 | they're a strange dance.

01:02:52.960 | And you wanna, you know,

01:02:55.160 | you wanna not step on your own feet.

01:02:56.920 | And you wanna make sure that you do it in a way,

01:03:00.760 | do the podcast in a way that's entertaining for people.

01:03:02.920 | And it's the conversations,

01:03:05.480 | or learning how to talk to people, it's a weird skill.

01:03:09.080 | It's a weird skill that took a long time

01:03:10.760 | for me to get good at.

01:03:11.800 | And I didn't know it was a skill until I started doing it.

01:03:14.640 | And then I just thought you were just talking.

01:03:16.800 | Like, "Oh, I just, I know how to talk.

01:03:17.960 | "We'll just talk to people."

01:03:19.080 | And then along the way, I realized like,

01:03:20.320 | "Oh."

01:03:21.160 | And then when you talk to people that are bad at it,

01:03:23.160 | you realize that it's a skill.

01:03:25.000 | Like particularly, one of the things about my people,

01:03:28.880 | about comedians is a lot of them tend to want to talk,

01:03:32.600 | but don't wanna listen.

01:03:34.040 | - Right.

01:03:35.160 | - So they're waiting for you to stop talking

01:03:38.620 | so they can talk,

01:03:39.520 | but they're not necessarily thinking

01:03:41.480 | about what you're saying, you know?

01:03:43.560 | And they're just waiting for their opportunity,

01:03:45.860 | or they talk over you, or they,

01:03:47.680 | and I try real hard not to do that,

01:03:49.280 | and sometimes I fail,

01:03:50.160 | but when I'm at my best, I'm dancing.

01:03:55.000 | - Yeah, ultimately the skill of conversation

01:03:56.760 | is just really listening.

01:03:59.280 | - Mm-hmm.

01:04:00.120 | - Like really, and listening and thinking.

01:04:02.080 | - Listening and thinking.

01:04:03.040 | And being genuinely curious,

01:04:05.320 | and really having a take on what they're saying,

01:04:10.320 | and maybe a follow-up question,

01:04:13.880 | or maybe, you know, it's gotta be real.

01:04:15.960 | It's gotta be authentic.

01:04:17.080 | And when it is authentic and it's real,

01:04:19.160 | it resonates with people.

01:04:20.640 | Like they're listening and they go,

01:04:21.760 | "Oh, like I'm locked in with the way you're thinking.

01:04:25.320 | "Like you two guys are in a conversation

01:04:27.360 | "and I'm locked in."

01:04:28.840 | You know, when she talks and you listen,

01:04:31.160 | I'm listening too.

01:04:32.520 | You know, when he says something to her,

01:04:34.440 | or when she says something to him,

01:04:36.580 | like there's a thing that happens during conversations

01:04:39.080 | where you're there.

01:04:40.960 | Like you're listening to,

01:04:42.360 | and it's with me, when I listen to a good podcast,

01:04:45.600 | I feel like I'm in the room.

01:04:47.080 | I feel like I'm in the room and I'm like the friend

01:04:50.000 | that got to sit down and listen.

01:04:51.600 | Like, "Oh, yeah, that's a great conversation."

01:04:54.840 | You know, I love conversations.

01:04:56.320 | So I love listening to them,

01:04:58.080 | and I love putting them together.

01:04:59.680 | And the fact that this podcast has gotten so fucking big,

01:05:04.360 | it's stunning to me.

01:05:06.400 | It blows me away.

01:05:07.520 | I never anticipated it.

01:05:09.320 | Never thought for a second that that stupid thing

01:05:11.920 | that I used to do on my couch, in my office,

01:05:15.080 | was the biggest thing I've ever done in my life, by far.

01:05:18.520 | Like people used to make fun of it.

01:05:20.320 | Like there's a Comedy Store documentary that's coming out,

01:05:22.760 | and one of the parts of the documentary is,

01:05:24.680 | my friend Tom Segura, when he first started doing my podcast,

01:05:28.120 | he would be leaving and he would talk to Red Band.

01:05:30.520 | He's like, "What the fuck is he doing?

01:05:32.240 | Like, why is he doing this?

01:05:33.400 | Like, who's listening?"

01:05:34.240 | He's like, "Oh, some people like it."

01:05:36.300 | And it's like fucking nonsense, waste of time.

01:05:38.960 | And like in the documentary, it shows like 2000 views,

01:05:43.080 | like one of the early Ustream episodes.

01:05:45.160 | - Hilarious.

01:05:46.000 | And they don't just like it, really.

01:05:48.400 | They form a friendship with you.

01:05:50.400 | It's like, even me, when people come up to me,

01:05:53.800 | like the love in their eyes is kind of beautiful.

01:05:56.680 | - It's weird, right?

01:05:57.560 | - Yeah, it's like-

01:05:58.400 | - You're a part of their life.

01:05:59.320 | - Yeah.

01:06:00.160 | And I don't know, it's also heartbreaking

01:06:02.560 | 'cause you realize you'll never really get to know them back

01:06:06.560 | 'cause they clearly are friends with you.

01:06:09.840 | - Yes, yeah.

01:06:11.240 | - And it's sad to see a person who's clearly brilliant

01:06:13.920 | and interesting and is friends with you,

01:06:16.080 | but you don't get a chance to return that love.

01:06:20.240 | And I mean-

01:06:21.280 | - My kids, it took them a while

01:06:23.200 | to figure out what's going on,

01:06:24.940 | but people would come up to me and they would say something

01:06:29.560 | like, "Hey man, I fucking love you.

01:06:31.080 | Thanks, man."

01:06:31.920 | I'm like, "All right.

01:06:32.760 | Hey, brother, nice to meet you."

01:06:34.060 | My daughter was like six.

01:06:35.040 | She'd be like, "Do you know him?"

01:06:36.520 | I'd be like, "No, I don't know him."

01:06:37.800 | She's like, "How does he know you?"

01:06:39.600 | (both laughing)

01:06:42.520 | Very weird conversation I used to have with young kids

01:06:46.240 | when I'd explain, I'd do this thing called a podcast

01:06:49.000 | and millions of people listened.

01:06:50.680 | So now one of my daughters is 12

01:06:52.680 | and one of her friends is 13 and he's a boy

01:06:56.600 | and he goes to school with her and he's obsessed with me.

01:06:59.080 | And so she's weirded out and she says to him,

01:07:01.180 | "I don't even think you like me.

01:07:02.360 | I think you're just into my dad, you fucking weirdo."

01:07:05.000 | - She's gonna have that conversation

01:07:07.640 | a few stages in her life.

01:07:09.040 | That hard conversation with a boyfriend.

01:07:12.080 | - Yeah, probably.

01:07:13.320 | Yeah.

01:07:14.160 | That's the thing about men too.

01:07:16.120 | This podcast is, my podcast is uniquely masculine.

01:07:21.120 | I'm a man and I'm not, I'm also a man

01:07:26.400 | that doesn't have to go through some sort

01:07:27.920 | of a corporate filter.

01:07:29.320 | I'm not going through executive producers

01:07:31.880 | who tell me, "Don't have this guest on.

01:07:34.240 | Don't talk about that."

01:07:36.000 | We looked at focus groups and they don't seem to like

01:07:38.440 | when you do this.

01:07:39.600 | There's none of that.

01:07:40.600 | I just do it.

01:07:43.240 | So I have a whole podcast where I just talk about cars

01:07:46.880 | and people are like, "I don't wanna hear you talk

01:07:48.160 | about cars."

01:07:49.000 | Well, good, congratulations.

01:07:50.920 | You found what you like.

01:07:51.920 | Here's good news.

01:07:52.880 | There's 1500 other ones.

01:07:54.640 | Go listen to the other episodes

01:07:55.760 | where I don't talk about cars.

01:07:57.320 | You don't have to listen.

01:07:58.780 | - And it's not like your brand, you just are who you are

01:08:02.920 | and that's what you do.

01:08:04.040 | - But it's like, it's authentically what I'm interested in.

01:08:08.560 | All the podcasts, whether I'm talking to David Fravor

01:08:11.440 | about his experience with UFOs,

01:08:13.360 | whether I'm talking to David Sinclair about life extension,

01:08:17.760 | whether I'm talking to you about artificial intelligence

01:08:20.280 | or whatever, it's because I want to talk to these people.

01:08:23.560 | And that resonates.

01:08:25.680 | I like when people are into shit.

01:08:28.640 | I've talked about this before, like things that I have

01:08:30.440 | no interest in making furniture,

01:08:32.280 | but I like this PBS show where this guy

01:08:34.120 | makes furniture by hand.

01:08:35.800 | I love watching it.

01:08:36.640 | - Craftsman.

01:08:37.480 | - 'Cause he's so into it.

01:08:38.300 | He's sanding this and polishing that.

01:08:39.960 | I'm not gonna do that.

01:08:40.920 | I don't give a fuck about furniture.

01:08:42.720 | Furniture for me is function, like this desk.

01:08:45.400 | Function works, but I love when people are into it.

01:08:48.680 | And I'm happy that someone can make it

01:08:50.520 | and they do a great job, but I'm not interested

01:08:54.360 | in the task or even the finished product

01:08:59.040 | as much as I'm interested in someone's passion for something.

01:09:01.880 | - The passion that they've put into this,

01:09:03.640 | that shines through.

01:09:05.280 | Last question.

01:09:06.200 | I sometimes ask this just for to, what is it?

01:09:11.720 | To challenge, to make people roll their eyes,

01:09:15.280 | to make legitimate scientists roll their eyes.

01:09:17.400 | Ask, what is the meaning of life?

01:09:20.400 | According to Joe Rogan.

01:09:22.160 | - I do not think there is a meaning.

01:09:24.440 | I think there's many, many meanings of life.

01:09:26.880 | I think there's a way to navigate life that's enjoyable.

01:09:30.060 | I think it requires many things.

01:09:32.320 | It requires, first of all, it requires love.

01:09:35.040 | You have to have loved ones.

01:09:36.440 | You have to have family.

01:09:37.740 | You have to have friends.

01:09:38.960 | You have to have people that care about you

01:09:40.720 | and you have to care about them.

01:09:42.260 | I think that is primary.

01:09:44.600 | Then it also requires interests.

01:09:47.800 | There has to be things that stimulate you.

01:09:50.040 | Now it could be just a subsistence lifestyle.

01:09:52.720 | There's many people that believe and practice

01:09:55.360 | this lifestyle of just living off the land

01:09:59.260 | and hunting and fishing and living in the woods

01:10:01.360 | and they seem incredibly happy.

01:10:03.440 | And there's something to be said for that.

01:10:05.720 | That is an interest, right?

01:10:07.280 | There's something and there's a direct connection

01:10:10.200 | between their actions and their sustenance.

01:10:12.760 | They get their food that way.

01:10:14.440 | They're connected to nature

01:10:15.640 | and it's very satisfying for them.

01:10:18.120 | If you don't have that, I think you need something

01:10:21.840 | that is interesting to you,

01:10:24.060 | something that you're passionate about.

01:10:26.520 | And there's far too many people

01:10:27.920 | that get sucked into living a life

01:10:30.120 | where you're just doing a job.

01:10:33.280 | You're just showing up and putting in your time

01:10:35.100 | and then going home.

01:10:35.940 | But you don't have a passion for what you're doing.

01:10:37.880 | And I think that's the recipe for a boring

01:10:42.100 | and very unfulfilling life.

01:10:43.640 | - You mentioned love, if we could just backtrack.

01:10:46.340 | We talked about the demons

01:10:49.440 | and the violence in there somewhere.

01:10:51.680 | What's the role of love in your own life?

01:10:55.520 | - It's very important, man.

01:10:57.240 | And that's one of the reasons why

01:10:59.440 | I'm so interested in helping people.

01:11:04.160 | I'm very interested in people feeling good.

01:11:07.640 | I like them to feel good.

01:11:09.360 | I want to help them.

01:11:10.520 | I like doing things that make them feel like,

01:11:12.560 | oh, you care about me.

01:11:13.520 | Like, yeah, I care about you.

01:11:14.760 | I really do.

01:11:15.640 | Like, I want people to feel good.

01:11:17.140 | I want my family to feel good.

01:11:19.040 | I want my friends to feel good.

01:11:20.280 | I want guests to feel good about the podcast experience.

01:11:25.600 | I'm a big believer in as much as I can

01:11:28.080 | to spread positive energy and joy and happiness

01:11:32.320 | and relay all the good advice that I've ever gotten.

01:11:35.680 | All the things that I've learned,

01:11:37.640 | and if they can benefit people,

01:11:38.840 | then I find that those things benefit people

01:11:41.080 | and actually improve the quality of their life

01:11:43.080 | or improve their success or improve their relationships.

01:11:46.880 | I'm very happy to do that.

01:11:48.480 | That means a lot to me.

01:11:49.820 | The way we interact with each other is so important.

01:11:53.960 | It's one of the reasons why, like,

01:11:55.840 | someone gets canceled or you get publicly shamed.

01:11:58.920 | It's so devastating,

01:12:00.160 | because there's all these people that negative,

01:12:02.600 | all this negative energy coming your way,

01:12:04.520 | and you feel it.

01:12:05.340 | As much as I like to pretend that you're immune

01:12:07.640 | to that kind of stuff,

01:12:08.460 | and some people do like to pretend that, you feel it.

01:12:10.960 | There's a tangible force when people are upset at you.

01:12:14.560 | And that's the same with loved ones or family

01:12:17.840 | or anytime someone's upset at you,

01:12:20.080 | whether it's a giant group of people

01:12:22.220 | or there's a small amount of people,

01:12:23.940 | that has an impact on you and your psyche

01:12:27.000 | and your physical being.

01:12:28.880 | So the more you can spread love

01:12:31.840 | and the more love comes back to you,

01:12:34.160 | you also create this butterfly effect, right?

01:12:36.800 | Where other people start recognizing like,

01:12:39.200 | oh, you know, when he's nice to me, I feel better,

01:12:42.280 | and then I'm gonna be nicer to people.

01:12:43.960 | And when I'm nicer to people, they feel better

01:12:45.840 | and I feel better, and it spreads outward.

01:12:48.200 | And that's one thing that I've done

01:12:49.380 | through this podcast, I think,

01:12:50.480 | is I've imparted my personal philosophy

01:12:53.620 | in kindness and generosity to other people.

01:12:57.300 | - Yeah, I mean, to correct you, you didn't do it.

01:13:00.260 | The ideas that are breeding themselves through your brain

01:13:02.460 | have figured out. - Yes, the ideas

01:13:04.100 | that are alive in the air

01:13:05.700 | that made their way into my head.

01:13:07.260 | - Love is a more efficient mechanism of spreading ideas

01:13:09.940 | they figured out.

01:13:11.020 | - Yes. (laughs)

01:13:13.340 | Probably, man, probably.

01:13:16.140 | So as far as like the meaning of life,

01:13:21.140 | without that, you have nothing.

01:13:23.820 | You know, one of the biggest failures in life

01:13:26.040 | is to be extremely successful financially,

01:13:27.900 | but everybody hates you.

01:13:29.260 | Everybody hates you and you're just miserable

01:13:31.020 | and alone and angry and depressed and sad.

01:13:33.840 | You know, when you hear about rich, famous people

01:13:35.880 | that commit suicide, like, wow, you missed the mark.

01:13:39.340 | You got some parts right,

01:13:41.600 | but you put too many eggs in one basket.

01:13:44.120 | You put too many eggs in the financial basket

01:13:46.800 | or the success basket or the accomplishment basket

01:13:49.800 | and not enough in the friendship and love basket.

01:13:52.080 | And there's a balance to that.

01:13:53.660 | And when I talked about the violence and all that stuff,

01:13:56.880 | like that to me is me, understanding and recognizing that

01:14:00.360 | is me trying to achieve that balance.

01:14:02.880 | It's like, go kill those demons

01:14:05.400 | so that this boat is level, you know?

01:14:07.460 | Because if it's not, then the boat is like this

01:14:09.580 | and then everything's all fucked up.

01:14:10.840 | And every time we hit a wave, things fall apart.

01:14:13.200 | Balance that boat out, figure it out.

01:14:15.080 | Like, know who you are.

01:14:16.720 | Some people don't have that problem at all.

01:14:18.780 | Some people, they could just go for walks

01:14:20.520 | and they're cool as a cucumber.

01:14:22.160 | I need more, you know?

01:14:23.620 | I need kettlebells.

01:14:24.840 | I need a heavy bag.

01:14:26.280 | I need the echo bike, you know, the air assault bike.

01:14:29.680 | I need some hardcore shit.

01:14:31.800 | And if I don't get that, I don't feel good.

01:14:33.800 | So I figured that out too.

01:14:35.600 | And that makes me a nicer person.

01:14:37.760 | That makes my interactions nicer.

01:14:40.000 | It changes the quality of my friendships

01:14:44.280 | and my relationships with people.

01:14:46.360 | - I think we mentioned Neuralink.

01:14:49.200 | I can certainly guarantee that this is one of the memories

01:14:53.080 | I'll be replaying 20, 30 years from now

01:14:55.680 | once we get the feature ready.

01:14:57.040 | Joe, it's a huge honor to talk to you.

01:14:58.920 | I hope-- - It's an honor

01:14:59.760 | to talk to you too, man. - Keep doing our podcast.

01:15:00.600 | - I'm glad you came down here for this.

01:15:02.920 | The first week of me doing this here.

01:15:04.760 | And it's very cool to have you always.

01:15:07.640 | I hope you make Texas cool again

01:15:10.240 | and do your podcast another 10, 11, whatever,

01:15:14.920 | however many years you're still on this earth.

01:15:17.160 | - All right, thank you, brother.

01:15:18.000 | - Thanks, man. - Appreciate you, man.

01:15:19.760 | - Thanks for listening to this conversation

01:15:21.240 | with Joe Rogan.

01:15:22.120 | And thank you to our sponsors,

01:15:24.200 | Neuro, Asleep, and Dollar Shave Club.

01:15:27.440 | Check them out in the description to get a discount

01:15:29.920 | and to support this podcast.

01:15:32.160 | If you enjoy this thing, subscribe on YouTube,

01:15:35.280 | review it with Five Stars on Apple Podcast,

01:15:37.320 | follow on Spotify, support on Patreon,

01:15:39.880 | or connect with me on Twitter, @lexfriedman.

01:15:42.960 | And now, let me leave you with some words of wisdom

01:15:45.520 | from Joe Rogan.

01:15:47.280 | The universe rewards calculated risk and passion.

01:15:51.180 | Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.

01:15:54.920 | (upbeat music)

01:15:57.500 | (upbeat music)

01:16:00.080 | [BLANK_AUDIO]

Joe Rogan: Fear, Love, Chaos, and the Joe Rogan Experience | Lex Fridman Podcast #127

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