GaryVee on the Power of Kindness, Self-Awareness, and Passion

00:00:00.000 | If you can go to that one place where you think you,

00:00:02.300 | whether it's your mom or dad or best friend or spouse,

00:00:05.200 | where you're like, "Hey, I'm actually starting a journey

00:00:07.340 | "of self-awareness and I know that I've always been

00:00:09.580 | "the kind of person that can get very defensive

00:00:11.340 | "or it can lead to a fight, or you just love me so much

00:00:14.240 | "you don't want to hurt my feelings, but no bullshit.

00:00:16.820 | "Can you just answer a couple questions for me?

00:00:19.700 | "You know how everybody says I have all this talent?

00:00:22.640 | "Am I lazy?"

00:00:24.100 | If you can get a person that loves you

00:00:25.620 | to a place where they'll tell you the truth,

00:00:27.900 | you can really start to unlock some conversations

00:00:30.460 | that can give you some affirmation

00:00:31.720 | on something you've been fighting off.

00:00:33.620 | - Hello, and welcome to All The Hacks,

00:00:35.460 | a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.

00:00:38.180 | Now, many of you might already know Gary Vaynerchuk,

00:00:40.460 | but the conversation we have might surprise you.

00:00:43.080 | While he might be best known for his hustle

00:00:44.860 | and savvy in entrepreneurship,

00:00:46.480 | I want to focus on a side of Gary

00:00:47.860 | you might not have seen before.

00:00:49.520 | But having known Gary for over a decade,

00:00:51.520 | I think it might actually be more a part

00:00:53.300 | of who he really is than anything else.

00:00:55.500 | That's a conversation about kindness

00:00:57.260 | and happiness and self-awareness.

00:00:59.500 | We'll talk about ways to transform your life

00:01:01.460 | by digging deep into the importance of kindness

00:01:04.020 | and making amends with people,

00:01:05.660 | and how you can use self-awareness as a superpower,

00:01:08.340 | some important life lessons to instill in your kids,

00:01:10.500 | and a lot more.

00:01:11.780 | And before diving in, if you could give us a thumbs up,

00:01:14.300 | it'd really help the algorithm.

00:01:15.740 | And if you're new here, please consider subscribing.

00:01:18.340 | All right, let's do it.

00:01:19.540 | (upbeat music)

00:01:25.020 | - Gary, thanks for being here.

00:01:25.940 | - Are we rolling?

00:01:26.940 | - Okay.

00:01:28.180 | Gary, thanks for having me here.

00:01:30.420 | - Thanks for having me on your show, brother.

00:01:32.260 | - Yeah, yeah, it's good to be in this office.

00:01:34.900 | So many people that I told I was coming to chat with you

00:01:37.960 | associate you with hustle.

00:01:40.420 | What are they getting wrong when they make that assumption?

00:01:43.540 | - The nuances of it, right?

00:01:45.780 | Like, yes, I believe in work ethic.

00:01:48.520 | I think it's a variable.

00:01:51.160 | But I don't think it's as,

00:01:54.440 | it kind of reminds me

00:01:55.280 | of what's just kind of going on in the world, right?

00:01:57.040 | We're so into headline reading.

00:01:59.400 | I think there was a couple of viral posts

00:02:01.440 | on Medium written about me on hustle porn,

00:02:03.880 | and that kind of like cemented a point of view

00:02:06.720 | that even the writer of that article,

00:02:09.200 | three years later, DM me to apologize,

00:02:11.800 | because he spoke to the agenda he had at hand,

00:02:14.840 | and realized he was making certain variables convenient

00:02:18.200 | to the story he was trying to tell.

00:02:19.600 | And I really appreciated that, by the way.

00:02:21.240 | I think that takes a lot of humility and courage.

00:02:24.440 | And honestly, I really do love the idea

00:02:28.200 | of understanding that work ethic is a variable,

00:02:31.480 | but there's so many other variables.

00:02:32.920 | Like, for example, from the first book I wrote, "Crushing,"

00:02:36.240 | when I wrote it in 2008 and came out in '09,

00:02:38.940 | in that exact book, there's like,

00:02:40.240 | hey, if you work nine to five,

00:02:41.960 | and you make $48,000 a year, you've won if you're thrilled,

00:02:45.560 | if you live within your means and you're super happy.

00:02:48.200 | And so I think what people get wrong is,

00:02:51.200 | I'm excited and I enjoy what I do,

00:02:53.440 | and I put in hours towards it,

00:02:55.400 | but it doesn't define me.

00:02:58.400 | I'm completely, utterly detached

00:03:01.400 | from financial success, from notoriety.

00:03:05.800 | I just love my game.

00:03:07.100 | The people that know me best know the same vigor I talk

00:03:11.840 | about like, hey, you can have a career that you love,

00:03:14.160 | I bring that same vigor to 6 a.m. on a Saturday

00:03:17.400 | to go garage sailing 'cause I love it,

00:03:19.200 | or competing in basketball or pickleball,

00:03:21.880 | or watching a Jets game.

00:03:24.360 | I think what they get wrong is,

00:03:27.360 | unlike a lot of people who don't even use that word

00:03:29.800 | or even deploy that energy,

00:03:31.320 | I have tons of friends who are seemingly calm,

00:03:34.840 | speak all the right speak for acceptance,

00:03:38.800 | but are absolutely, incredibly overly driven

00:03:42.540 | by money, by fame, and are detached to that

00:03:47.200 | and I think that's why there's a lot of anxiety

00:03:49.160 | in the world.

00:03:49.980 | And so I think the nuances of how I think about it,

00:03:52.480 | plus I also spoke about that concept

00:03:56.120 | during an incredibly down market in the economy,

00:03:59.540 | when the internet was hitting an incredible inflection point

00:04:02.000 | in 2008, '09, '10.

00:04:03.120 | So I think just the nuance of it,

00:04:06.640 | the word, when I use the word hustle in 2008, '09, '10,

00:04:11.400 | the intent is like, hey, there's opportunity

00:04:13.480 | and you can go get it.

00:04:14.920 | I'm thrilled to change that word to tenacity,

00:04:18.600 | or grit, or work ethic.

00:04:21.640 | So I think the semantics of it all.

00:04:24.400 | And I am a communicator that I'm incredibly self-aware

00:04:29.400 | that the way I communicate with the excitement level,

00:04:33.520 | with the energy, with the Jersey chat of it,

00:04:37.960 | I'm very aware and genuinely compassionate

00:04:41.560 | and understanding to why people may take the extreme take.

00:04:46.000 | And I also don't have the audacity.

00:04:49.060 | I deploy enormous humility when I'm about to say

00:04:51.080 | what I'm saying.

00:04:52.180 | I would never expect someone to spend five hours

00:04:54.160 | to double click into it and actually understand

00:04:56.320 | what I'm about and what I'm saying.

00:04:58.520 | And so I guess at the end of the day, what are they missing?

00:05:02.800 | They're not missing anything if they're just doing a drive by

00:05:06.120 | and reading a headline.

00:05:07.720 | If they've spent two or three hours on me through content

00:05:11.040 | or interaction or people that really know me,

00:05:14.160 | I doubt they'd be missing anything

00:05:15.800 | 'cause I think they would contextualize it.

00:05:17.520 | - Yeah.

00:05:18.360 | Do you think that work ethic you have, that grit,

00:05:20.320 | that tenacity is something that can be taught or learned,

00:05:23.840 | or is it just something that's part of your DNA?

00:05:26.140 | - I think it's a combination of both.

00:05:27.380 | I think it's clearly in people's DNA.

00:05:30.720 | There's many people that are either born with too little

00:05:34.520 | or too much that deploy it immediately

00:05:37.080 | to quote unquote prove something or see an opportunity,

00:05:40.540 | especially for immigrants.

00:05:41.760 | It's so easy for me to go at it.

00:05:45.520 | I was born in the Soviet Union.

00:05:47.240 | My parents lived their entire childhood

00:05:49.320 | and into their early 20s there.

00:05:52.600 | So I lived in a household that really understood,

00:05:55.240 | like shit, man, America's pretty epic.

00:05:57.920 | This is pretty cool.

00:05:59.760 | You don't go to jail for trying to make a better life

00:06:03.200 | for yourself in entrepreneurship.

00:06:05.520 | So it was very easy for me.

00:06:07.940 | On the flip side, I've seen a lot of people

00:06:10.060 | be affected by the osmosis of work ethic.

00:06:13.980 | It's kind of like what's going on with me in the gym.

00:06:16.600 | It became so not natural.

00:06:20.400 | As natural as it comes to me to sell lemonade

00:06:23.020 | or sports cards or run businesses or be nice to people,

00:06:26.740 | it comes equally not natural to me to work in the gym.

00:06:29.760 | But we've known each other a long time.

00:06:31.660 | Somewhere around 38, I decided to put in the work

00:06:34.720 | 'cause I wanted to live longer

00:06:35.960 | and just thought it would be better.

00:06:37.620 | And through osmosis practice,

00:06:41.680 | I'm now someone who goes to the gym.

00:06:44.180 | I still don't love it, which is why I really do talk about

00:06:47.220 | how important passion is to actually get to that state

00:06:50.940 | where it's so easy 'cause you love it so much.

00:06:55.940 | I really do wish for everyone that the job they had

00:06:59.380 | was similar to their favorite hobby.

00:07:01.400 | For everybody right now who's listening,

00:07:02.620 | they can take a step back and whether it's skiing

00:07:04.420 | or cooking or playing video games

00:07:06.220 | or sailing or garage sailing

00:07:10.060 | or watching movies or what have you,

00:07:12.460 | if they could do that 24/7 and sustain their life,

00:07:15.620 | a lot of people would be happier and would enjoy that.

00:07:18.720 | But on the flip side, for a lot of us,

00:07:21.500 | just like me for the gym,

00:07:22.800 | sometimes you have to put in that work

00:07:25.420 | if you want to accomplish something that you think is good.

00:07:28.580 | To me, I'm actually very focused on people

00:07:30.900 | living within their means versus creating frameworks

00:07:35.260 | that require them to work harder, to make more money,

00:07:38.940 | to live within the means that they think

00:07:41.180 | they need to live in.

00:07:42.300 | I don't think you need a BMW.

00:07:43.740 | I don't think you need a six-bedroom house

00:07:46.300 | and I think that is where that conversation

00:07:49.100 | gets interesting but at the end of the day,

00:07:52.100 | I think it is something that can be taught

00:07:55.180 | but I don't think it's something that can be taught

00:07:57.900 | in this scenario.

00:07:59.100 | I've gotten better at basketball even in the last year.

00:08:01.660 | I've put in more work.

00:08:03.340 | I'm not an NBA player.

00:08:04.940 | So I think there is a level of DNA

00:08:06.820 | that caps out everyone in every genre

00:08:10.180 | but I think the capacity to get better in everything

00:08:13.580 | is quite high.

00:08:14.860 | Like I can't sing for a lick.

00:08:16.980 | I have a feeling if I got a voice coach

00:08:18.740 | and really put in the work

00:08:19.820 | and like worked on it for a decade,

00:08:21.840 | like I think I would be better at karaoke than I am now

00:08:24.820 | and so that's interesting to me,

00:08:27.080 | the things you can control versus the things that you can't.

00:08:29.940 | - So I'm guessing you don't wanna sing

00:08:31.700 | which is why you haven't done that

00:08:32.660 | but you did wanna build--

00:08:34.420 | - So I have a new song out with Snoop.

00:08:36.100 | Everyone go check out, it's not a joke.

00:08:37.900 | Go check out on Spotify.

00:08:39.260 | Please take a step back, Snoop Dogg and Gary Vee.

00:08:42.140 | 17-year-old me is still freaking the fuck out.

00:08:44.700 | - But you did wanna work out.

00:08:47.140 | - Yes. - You said you're 38.

00:08:47.980 | I'm 38.

00:08:48.820 | I don't have a great fitness regime.

00:08:50.420 | You know, was it just putting in the work

00:08:51.660 | or are there things you did that made it more possible?

00:08:54.180 | - I think I was also in a five-year window

00:08:56.860 | where I was really hitting it hard,

00:08:58.460 | traveling a lot, going hard.

00:08:59.900 | I was really enjoying it but I did recognize like hmm,

00:09:03.620 | like this is really like not sustainable.

00:09:07.020 | Like I don't think I have good eating habits.

00:09:10.140 | I have great mental habits.

00:09:12.100 | I'm incredibly calm and happy.

00:09:14.060 | I sleep, the hustle thing that always makes me laugh

00:09:16.460 | is like I sleep six, seven, eight, nine hours a night

00:09:20.340 | depending on the night.

00:09:21.540 | So I have good sleeping.

00:09:22.580 | I have good lack of anxiety

00:09:23.940 | because I am detached from the work stress

00:09:27.740 | but I knew that my eating and muscles were nowhere

00:09:31.460 | and so my back had been hurt as a child

00:09:34.740 | working in my dad's liquor store.

00:09:36.460 | So like that was something I wanted to fix

00:09:40.540 | 'cause it was really uncomfortable

00:09:42.540 | and back to like kid's life,

00:09:43.620 | you start like not wanting to carry your kid

00:09:45.860 | 'cause you're worried your back goes out.

00:09:47.100 | Little simple things like taking luggage off of the top

00:09:50.700 | of like a plane and like having to use your right side

00:09:53.140 | 'cause you're scared your left side will go out.

00:09:55.300 | There was these little nagging things.

00:09:56.600 | My neck, you know, like would get stiff at times.

00:09:59.260 | I was like, well, I'm way too young for all this

00:10:01.140 | and I plan on like really quote unquote going hard.

00:10:04.740 | I mean, I enjoy what I do.

00:10:05.820 | I'd like to be 65 and fly somewhere for a meeting

00:10:08.900 | or, you know, and so, you know, for me,

00:10:11.780 | I just said, I've got to do this.

00:10:14.040 | This is very clear.

00:10:14.940 | Like there are certain things that are just very clear.

00:10:17.080 | Back to how we started this.

00:10:18.580 | Like work ethic is one of the variables

00:10:21.060 | that helps somebody build something meaningful, right?

00:10:25.120 | Well, you know, eating well and going to the gym

00:10:27.360 | like genuinely gives you a higher propensity

00:10:29.780 | of like having a longer life and a more enjoyable life

00:10:33.220 | in your 60s, 70s, and 80s.

00:10:34.580 | So it was just a very logical conversation.

00:10:36.900 | I also got to the financial place

00:10:38.480 | where I was able to hire a babysitter

00:10:40.900 | and the big unlock for me was I'm not accountable to myself,

00:10:44.060 | I'm accountable to others.

00:10:45.700 | The reason I think I'm a very good boss,

00:10:47.540 | the reason I think I'm a good friend

00:10:48.660 | is like I like being there for people.

00:10:50.700 | For my own self, I just kind of take it for granted.

00:10:52.860 | I like, I don't want to like beat my own record

00:10:54.940 | on how much I, how fast I ran or how much iron I pumped.

00:10:59.940 | So by hiring Mike Vacanti to be my full-time babysitter

00:11:05.660 | and like the person I was accountable to,

00:11:07.880 | it really worked for me.

00:11:09.660 | And it's what I'm still doing 10 years later.

00:11:11.820 | - It's funny, the sharp decline in my exercise happened

00:11:15.640 | when Kevin Rose stopped riding the Peloton

00:11:18.140 | because we had this fierce competition of like,

00:11:21.460 | I'm gonna be, I didn't care about beating my record,

00:11:23.140 | I cared about beating his record

00:11:24.300 | and he cared about beating my record

00:11:25.780 | and then he kind of like gave it up and I lost.

00:11:27.700 | - I think that's a huge insight for you.

00:11:30.020 | I think you can replicate that.

00:11:31.860 | You've got other Kevin Roses in your life,

00:11:33.580 | you can find a Kevin Rose on Twitter right now.

00:11:36.340 | And so I think that's epic.

00:11:38.060 | And by the way, same with me,

00:11:39.300 | like who I am on a basketball court or a tennis court,

00:11:42.540 | the level of effort and work I put on in that environment

00:11:47.540 | versus what I do in the gym is like 10 to five.

00:11:50.700 | Like 10 on the court, five in the gym.

00:11:53.340 | So I understand that and I think that that's something

00:11:56.540 | you should try to figure out.

00:11:58.620 | - Yeah, I got some ideas.

00:12:01.460 | - Good.

00:12:02.580 | By the way, anybody who's listening to this podcast,

00:12:04.300 | just hit up Chris and like be like,

00:12:06.020 | I'll be your Kevin Rose.

00:12:06.860 | - Yeah, just get on the leaderboard.

00:12:07.700 | - Yeah, that's it.

00:12:08.520 | - I wanna push, like we would basically be like,

00:12:10.060 | let's push until we might throw up on this bicycle.

00:12:12.380 | - By the way though, building this podcast,

00:12:14.820 | which you have care for 'cause you put a lot of effort

00:12:17.340 | to making this date work and I appreciate your tenacity

00:12:20.020 | and I apologize that my schedule is the worst,

00:12:21.620 | I'm so pumped we're here and it's always great to see you.

00:12:24.340 | You're such a good dude.

00:12:25.580 | I think you should build the community of this podcast.

00:12:28.340 | I think you should get, I guarantee you,

00:12:30.420 | 73 of your listeners right now are fired up right now

00:12:33.940 | and you can build a whole community on this.

00:12:35.620 | - Yeah, so we, it's funny,

00:12:37.060 | we haven't had the conversation about this,

00:12:38.780 | but we launched a membership.

00:12:40.100 | There's like 150 people right now, actively,

00:12:43.100 | starting a book club, like in the city.

00:12:45.380 | - In this membership, 39 of that 150 or 150 others

00:12:49.820 | that haven't gotten into the membership yet

00:12:51.700 | are all about this Peloton challenge

00:12:54.140 | and like something we're thinking about.

00:12:55.780 | - Yeah, I like it.

00:12:57.220 | Okay, so first book, focus on Crush It.

00:12:59.740 | Most recent book, much more on the softer skills.

00:13:02.620 | - Yeah.

00:13:03.940 | - You said you'd rather, or my takeaway was that

00:13:06.620 | you'd rather be known for kindness than hustle

00:13:08.460 | in the long term.

00:13:09.540 | That's a focus.

00:13:10.700 | Why is kindness so important to you?

00:13:13.220 | - Well, because at 47, it's clear to me

00:13:15.140 | that that's an equal variable to work ethic

00:13:18.340 | that's brought me to the place that I'm at.

00:13:21.180 | And the thing that I watch and admire in others

00:13:24.420 | who are in similar places.

00:13:26.340 | I think there's an incredibly disgusting concept

00:13:30.700 | in society that says nice guys finish last.

00:13:33.380 | I think it's an awful thing.

00:13:36.260 | As a matter of fact, I really need to make a hoodie

00:13:39.460 | and start rocking it that says nice guys finish first

00:13:42.620 | 'cause I really believe that.

00:13:44.220 | Because I think it's what are you judging?

00:13:46.100 | Like cool, you made $83 million in the bank and you die

00:13:49.060 | and nine people show up to your funeral was like that good?

00:13:52.420 | I would argue it's not.

00:13:54.060 | And so, you know, when I wrote Crush It,

00:13:58.740 | what was obvious to me at that point was

00:14:00.660 | the internet had a huge opportunity.

00:14:02.500 | Influencers were gonna be big.

00:14:04.940 | People laughed at that concept.

00:14:06.620 | That work ethic was a requirement.

00:14:08.860 | You know, I was 34.

00:14:10.500 | All I knew was my dad and myself worked our faces off

00:14:13.500 | to like build the American dream.

00:14:15.980 | And that finding something you liked

00:14:18.380 | would make it not feel like work,

00:14:19.620 | which would eliminate the anxiety of the work.

00:14:22.420 | At 47, when I write 12 1/2,

00:14:25.780 | I've now built a 2,000 person global company.

00:14:28.940 | I know why it's working.

00:14:30.260 | I know why it's indisputably gonna disrupt

00:14:33.980 | the marketing industry.

00:14:35.180 | It's because people wanna be here forever.

00:14:37.580 | I looked back at Wine Library and be like,

00:14:39.460 | wait a minute, that's the same thing

00:14:40.300 | that happened there actually.

00:14:43.020 | And then I just think about like my life.

00:14:46.020 | And then also I think about the hundreds of companies

00:14:48.500 | I've invested in, the ones that have worked,

00:14:50.420 | the ones that haven't.

00:14:51.500 | The thousands of companies I've consultant,

00:14:54.980 | the ones that work, the ones that I don't.

00:14:56.780 | And you know, I think again,

00:14:58.860 | back to the way this podcast started,

00:15:01.460 | if you started it with like,

00:15:03.540 | Gary, nice guys finish first.

00:15:05.140 | Like what are people missing?

00:15:06.660 | Or if you went the other way and said,

00:15:07.860 | hey, Gary, you really hate the nice guys finish last.

00:15:10.820 | What are people missing?

00:15:12.220 | It's similar to the hustle conversation,

00:15:14.900 | the work ethic conversation.

00:15:16.500 | There's multiple ingredients.

00:15:17.980 | It's why the book is subtitled Ingredients.

00:15:20.180 | There are multiple ingredients that I think stand out

00:15:23.220 | as a consistent North Star blueprint

00:15:26.300 | that have sustainable, enjoyable success attached to them.

00:15:30.780 | And I think work ethic, and I think kindness,

00:15:33.060 | and I think curiosity.

00:15:34.420 | And several others are pretty standard.

00:15:39.780 | Now, some people are stronger than others.

00:15:41.980 | And that's why there's so many variable differences

00:15:43.940 | of so many different things out there.

00:15:45.300 | But it works for me.

00:15:48.540 | And like, I really enjoy being nice.

00:15:50.900 | Like I like the way that, you know,

00:15:53.580 | you know this as well 'cause you've watched this journey

00:15:55.420 | from me being like someone,

00:15:56.980 | a couple people knew to a lot more people know.

00:15:59.820 | You know, I've always enjoyed the fact that even today,

00:16:02.180 | like the people that know me best

00:16:03.380 | have the best feelings towards me.

00:16:05.460 | That's a nice feeling,

00:16:06.660 | especially when you've become a public figure.

00:16:09.020 | And a lot of people have a lot of different takes.

00:16:11.940 | There's a sense of like calmness that comes along with,

00:16:15.540 | well, like as people get closer to me,

00:16:17.940 | they have a better taste of me.

00:16:19.380 | I'd be much happier with that than the reverse,

00:16:21.700 | which I think a lot of people in the world have,

00:16:23.740 | which is they may be liked optically on the outside,

00:16:25.940 | but as you get closer to their inner circle,

00:16:27.860 | it gets more rotten quickly.

00:16:29.380 | - Yeah.

00:16:30.220 | The interesting thing about kindness is

00:16:31.820 | it feels like the thing that most people

00:16:33.620 | probably think they have.

00:16:34.660 | And when you double click,

00:16:35.780 | there's aspects of their personality.

00:16:37.700 | And I'll even like open up,

00:16:39.100 | like there are times where I find myself saying things like,

00:16:41.140 | "Ah, this person's annoying."

00:16:42.860 | Like, you know, we're not...

00:16:44.820 | Is cutting all negativity?

00:16:46.820 | Does that like level it up?

00:16:47.780 | Or how do you really own kindness?

00:16:49.620 | - I think it's understanding negativity

00:16:51.420 | versus cutting it out.

00:16:53.020 | We're all humans.

00:16:53.860 | I mean, I'm gonna go to the garden tonight

00:16:56.620 | and the things I'm gonna say to Jimmy Butler

00:16:58.260 | are gonna be completely inappropriate.

00:17:00.020 | Though I love Jimmy Butler,

00:17:01.860 | represents so much of what I believe in.

00:17:03.700 | But for those three hours, I will not be kind.

00:17:06.460 | It's the context.

00:17:07.580 | And like, you know,

00:17:08.420 | like every human's gonna gossip a little bit

00:17:10.020 | or like talk to their best friend in the office

00:17:11.700 | about somebody else in the office.

00:17:13.220 | I think the question becomes, why?

00:17:15.660 | You know, I ask myself,

00:17:16.860 | why do I not spend a lot of time tearing down other people?

00:17:21.140 | It starts with because I'm not tearing down myself.

00:17:24.020 | I don't really have a whole lot of envy.

00:17:26.620 | You know, I don't deploy a lot of jealousy.

00:17:29.300 | I don't hold resentment towards my parents

00:17:31.980 | or other important figures in my life

00:17:33.860 | for anything that I deem that they did that wasn't good.

00:17:38.580 | Right?

00:17:39.420 | And I think that's a very common trait for the masses.

00:17:41.780 | I think, I mean, I know people who just can't let go.

00:17:44.940 | Just spend all their time on jealousy, envy, and resentment.

00:17:48.020 | And then it manifests.

00:17:49.140 | It's in their subconscious.

00:17:50.740 | And then like every day to day,

00:17:52.140 | if they see someone who's happy,

00:17:53.740 | they get triggered to make,

00:17:55.500 | to kind of point out what they're not good at

00:17:57.540 | or what they're unhappy.

00:17:58.380 | So I think we're all human and we, everyone has it.

00:18:02.060 | But I think getting to a place

00:18:04.980 | where you figure out your relationship with yourself,

00:18:08.660 | I think can be quite powerful.

00:18:10.460 | And I think always has a direct indication

00:18:13.980 | of how people feel about others.

00:18:16.380 | I always believe that the bullies in the world,

00:18:20.020 | the nasties of the world,

00:18:21.620 | the not able to be civil with others of the world

00:18:25.660 | are always in a really tough spot with themselves.

00:18:29.420 | - So kindness, it's funny.

00:18:30.580 | We always think about kindness as like,

00:18:32.140 | I'm kind to people.

00:18:33.340 | But it sounds like the like unlock

00:18:35.100 | is realizing you need to be kind to yourself

00:18:36.860 | and you need to understand yourself.

00:18:38.380 | You've said,

00:18:39.220 | I think self-awareness is like a superpower

00:18:41.340 | most people don't realize.

00:18:43.140 | - In a way that really matters, brother.

00:18:45.180 | Like in a way that's like,

00:18:48.900 | man, if I could wish anything for people on earth,

00:18:51.620 | besides good health,

00:18:52.860 | for everyone who's listening in this great community,

00:18:54.660 | 'cause I know the kind that you would cultivate.

00:18:56.540 | I just think to myself,

00:18:57.860 | like who's a listener of this

00:18:59.500 | based on I know good amount about you.

00:19:02.140 | And like, I've been watching you for a long time.

00:19:03.620 | Like, you know,

00:19:05.340 | there's like a really high standard of human on here.

00:19:08.540 | But I think a lot of them are blind to certain aspects.

00:19:12.420 | And I think the biggest one is like,

00:19:15.060 | just be like easier on yourself.

00:19:17.580 | Like the extreme level of judgment

00:19:19.700 | people put on themselves

00:19:21.220 | because they play the game of comparison.

00:19:23.740 | Like, the enjoyment I get to see Kev or Tim Ferriss

00:19:28.740 | or I mean, anybody like Sarah Blakely in spec.

00:19:34.420 | Like, I don't know, like you, like anybody.

00:19:38.380 | Like I get thrilled when I see people are winning

00:19:41.700 | as if that's coming out of mine.

00:19:44.180 | I've always been baffled by people's inability

00:19:48.160 | to understand that the world is abundant

00:19:50.540 | and nobody, nobody is taking out of yours.

00:19:54.460 | If 50 people showed up tomorrow

00:19:56.140 | that are incredible public speakers,

00:19:57.940 | not a dollar is taken out of my pocket.

00:20:00.580 | There's plenty of speaking gigs I could do.

00:20:03.260 | You know, and so I think I really,

00:20:07.340 | I really wish people understood that.

00:20:08.960 | And I think understanding who

00:20:12.100 | you're trying to accomplish for is also very important.

00:20:14.660 | There's a lot of people listening here

00:20:15.700 | who are still trying to make their parents proud,

00:20:18.060 | even though their parents are not capable

00:20:20.500 | of ever giving that, you know, co-sign to their child

00:20:23.620 | because they themselves never got it from their parents.

00:20:26.100 | So a lot of people blame their parents

00:20:28.280 | and haven't done the work of figuring out

00:20:30.380 | that they should actually be blaming their grandparents,

00:20:32.480 | which then leads them to actually realize

00:20:34.060 | they should be blaming their great-grandparents.

00:20:36.340 | And it becomes this game where you can give your parents

00:20:38.900 | a lot more leeway, which actually a lot of times

00:20:42.020 | for people is an unlock.

00:20:43.580 | And it's kind of like, you know,

00:20:46.060 | you can get it off your chest.

00:20:47.260 | And, you know, I think, yeah,

00:20:48.780 | I'm very passionate about this subject matter.

00:20:51.020 | - Are there things people can,

00:20:52.340 | that are listening can do to start

00:20:53.780 | to build better self-awareness?

00:20:55.380 | Is there like a training regimen

00:20:56.740 | or some activity that you've seen be helpful?

00:20:59.300 | - I think one is to really start

00:21:01.820 | to make the people closer to them,

00:21:03.360 | feel comfortable with giving them truth and candor.

00:21:06.500 | So like finding that best friend where like,

00:21:09.180 | if you can go to that one place where you think you,

00:21:11.380 | whether it's your mom or dad or best friend or spouse,

00:21:14.340 | where you're like, hey,

00:21:15.380 | I'm actually starting a journey of self-awareness.

00:21:17.660 | And I know that I've always been the kind of person

00:21:19.260 | that can get very defensive or it can lead to a fight.

00:21:22.100 | Or you just love me so much,

00:21:23.380 | you don't wanna hurt my feelings, but no bullshit.

00:21:25.940 | Can you just, you know, like answer a couple questions

00:21:28.260 | for me, like, you know how everybody says,

00:21:29.700 | like, I have all this talent.

00:21:31.420 | Like, am I lazy?

00:21:32.940 | Like, if you can get a person that loves you

00:21:34.660 | to a place where they'll tell you the truth,

00:21:36.940 | you can really start to unlock some conversations

00:21:39.500 | that can give you some affirmation

00:21:40.740 | on something you've been fighting off.

00:21:42.780 | - It's funny you say this.

00:21:44.420 | I remember, I hope he's okay with me talking about this.

00:21:47.100 | Kevin had this, went through this process

00:21:49.480 | and actually hired someone to call a bunch of his friends

00:21:52.140 | and have that kind of like performance review conversation

00:21:54.700 | and be like, you know, I'm gonna keep this anonymous.

00:21:56.880 | I'm not gonna sign it to you, but like,

00:21:58.580 | Kevin wants to know like, what can he improve in?

00:22:00.360 | Like, where is he letting his friends down?

00:22:02.500 | What would you tell him if, you know,

00:22:04.940 | you knew he wouldn't be able to know it was you?

00:22:06.860 | And it sounds like, you know,

00:22:08.460 | not everyone needs to hire someone to do that.

00:22:09.980 | You could, you know, it's hard.

00:22:11.220 | Sometimes your friends don't wanna be honest.

00:22:12.580 | - No, I think what you just said is a viable

00:22:14.820 | and maybe even a cleaner data set than what I'm referring to.

00:22:18.700 | And, you know, I'm just very aware

00:22:19.900 | that most people can't afford to hire someone to do that,

00:22:22.820 | right, or even think of it, but like, look at-

00:22:24.660 | - But even a friend, like, ask a friend,

00:22:26.820 | can you just call these five people and ask, you know?

00:22:28.500 | - I like it, I like it.

00:22:29.660 | To your point, in my version,

00:22:31.040 | I'm not asking that most inner person to give it to you.

00:22:34.440 | To your point, maybe that inner person

00:22:36.040 | is the one that cultivates the data.

00:22:38.320 | I think it's fascinating.

00:22:39.640 | - Or an anonymous Google form.

00:22:40.960 | - I think, I like that too, I like that too.

00:22:44.240 | I think people have to be ready, right?

00:22:47.080 | I had to be ready at 30.

00:22:48.120 | For eight years, I knew health and fitness

00:22:50.160 | was something I wanted to be,

00:22:51.300 | but it was finally on a flight from Houston to New York

00:22:54.160 | with my head against a window where I was like, it's time.

00:22:57.000 | You know, like, for a lot of people right now,

00:22:58.400 | they're hearing this and they're pushing against it,

00:23:00.780 | like, nah, because they're not ready.

00:23:03.180 | For another listener today, this was the moment.

00:23:06.420 | Like, in the last week or two,

00:23:07.620 | they just got ready of like, you know what?

00:23:09.180 | I just want my life to be happier,

00:23:10.860 | and this is part of the equation.

00:23:12.100 | Like, look, out of all the things,

00:23:14.900 | work ethic, passion, kindness,

00:23:18.060 | I will say that accountability, I would argue,

00:23:20.700 | is probably the quickest indicator to how happy you are.

00:23:24.740 | If you are truly interested in being accountable.

00:23:28.300 | - To yourself?

00:23:29.420 | - Yeah, to the whole thing, to yourself,

00:23:32.060 | to everyone around you, to every situation,

00:23:34.660 | to every relationship, to the truth.

00:23:37.820 | Like, when, you know, I'll give you a good example.

00:23:42.220 | In my 20s and 30s, I would struggle so much

00:23:46.080 | with firing people and giving them candorous feedback

00:23:49.280 | that almost every exit at Wine Library

00:23:51.460 | and early VaynerMedia was sloppy.

00:23:54.380 | They stayed a year longer 'cause I wrestled with it.

00:23:58.020 | And then when I would do it, it would just be a shit show.

00:24:01.220 | Like, it would be, I'd ask my cousin Bobby to do it,

00:24:05.400 | even though I was the one who interacted

00:24:07.660 | with the person every day, 500 days a year.

00:24:10.620 | I would flub it.

00:24:13.060 | I would go in quick and get out with any,

00:24:15.860 | you know, I would over, I would talk for three minutes

00:24:18.860 | about how they're the greatest and be like,

00:24:20.380 | but that being said, we're gonna have to let you go,

00:24:22.340 | and they'd be confused.

00:24:23.260 | And so, there was two, 300 people over a 20-year period,

00:24:27.240 | back to what I said earlier, that were close to me

00:24:30.060 | and did actually know me,

00:24:30.980 | who did not have a good taste towards me.

00:24:33.200 | What did I do in my 20s and early 30s?

00:24:35.100 | I would blame them.

00:24:36.220 | I'd be like, how could that person be mad at me?

00:24:39.120 | They were so, like, they were the worst.

00:24:40.980 | They were so incapable at their job.

00:24:42.500 | I was such a good guy for letting them

00:24:44.820 | even be in the company for another year or two.

00:24:46.960 | Look what's happened.

00:24:47.800 | They've not been successful in their last two places.

00:24:50.300 | And it took me getting into my late 30s

00:24:52.540 | and really actually into my mid 40s.

00:24:55.160 | Fuck my late 30s, not my late 30s.

00:24:56.900 | It got into the last three or four or five years

00:24:59.540 | where I was like, you know what?

00:25:01.260 | My lack of candor is the kryptonite

00:25:05.780 | to the thing I said 15 minutes earlier,

00:25:07.420 | which is I love that people that know me like me a lot.

00:25:10.980 | Asterisk, people that have worked for me

00:25:14.040 | that were not good at their job in my subjective opinion,

00:25:18.060 | that I let sit around 'cause I was too scared

00:25:21.220 | or was not interested in conflict.

00:25:26.120 | And I created so much resentment and passive aggressiveness

00:25:28.800 | that eventually it boiled over and then they were fired.

00:25:32.100 | That group of 100 to 200 people on earth

00:25:34.820 | don't have the same good taste towards me

00:25:37.040 | than the 10,000 that have been close to me in my life.

00:25:40.480 | That took me being accountable to like,

00:25:43.400 | that's on me 'cause I struggled with candor,

00:25:46.000 | which is why in the book,

00:25:47.460 | the last book that you're referencing,

00:25:49.040 | the reason I wrote "12 1/2" was strictly

00:25:51.080 | at the end of the day to talk about kind candor.

00:25:53.160 | This concept that I rebranded it to myself

00:25:55.560 | and now I'm better at candor,

00:25:56.700 | but it took a lot of professional and personal losing

00:25:59.920 | for me to get to that point where I could be accountable

00:26:03.360 | and be like, hey, okay, tough guy,

00:26:06.240 | you're good at a lot of shit, that's nice,

00:26:07.920 | or a lot of people, this is something you stink at

00:26:10.640 | and will continue to be a problem in your life

00:26:12.920 | unless you're able to build.

00:26:14.840 | And I'm proud of where I'm at with candor now.

00:26:18.480 | I'm a five, I'm a 4.7, I'm a 5.2.

00:26:22.720 | That's a lot better than a one.

00:26:24.040 | And I gotta tell you, in the last two, three years

00:26:25.600 | at Boehner X, the holding company,

00:26:27.120 | Boehner Media, the agency,

00:26:28.840 | the company's much stronger 'cause of it.

00:26:31.760 | My greatest pride as a leader was eliminating fear.

00:26:35.160 | I got this, I got this, I got this.

00:26:37.800 | I got you, we got this.

00:26:39.580 | And I delivered for years,

00:26:41.380 | but what really was rock bottom for me

00:26:43.760 | was when I realized, wait a minute,

00:26:45.720 | there's a lot of people walking around scared

00:26:47.560 | 'cause they don't know if out of nowhere

00:26:49.320 | they're just gonna get fired

00:26:50.520 | because I'm like, everything's great until it's not.

00:26:52.600 | And then I have to start giving more candor along the way

00:26:55.080 | and my organization does it better

00:26:56.960 | because I do it better and it's been a big growth for me.

00:27:01.320 | - Have you, you mentioned earlier that you liked

00:27:03.160 | that that reporter reached out to you three years later.

00:27:05.400 | Have you reached out to those 100 to 200 people?

00:27:07.480 | - I've reached out to many people.

00:27:08.760 | I have, I like making amends.

00:27:11.160 | Luckily for me, and this is just like,

00:27:13.640 | so the answer is several.

00:27:15.900 | Luckily for me, there was a lot of good

00:27:21.600 | in what happened until the end.

00:27:23.360 | And so for a lot of people,

00:27:24.840 | when they've gone on to have

00:27:25.680 | two or three other work experiences,

00:27:27.600 | they were able to contextualize what I was doing well.

00:27:30.560 | And so to the credit to a lot of those people,

00:27:33.040 | a lot of those 100 to 200 people,

00:27:34.800 | two, four, five years later have reached out to me.

00:27:37.920 | And then, because I was still on my journey,

00:27:40.160 | I wasn't there yet.

00:27:41.320 | And then to me, when they did that,

00:27:42.680 | I would come so hard and say,

00:27:45.280 | hey, Jimmy, Sally, thank you,

00:27:48.600 | but hey, I need to own a piece of this as well.

00:27:51.560 | Over the last two, three, four years,

00:27:52.840 | I've been better at starting that conversation

00:27:54.760 | versus being the follow-up to that.

00:27:56.840 | - Yeah, I mean, I appreciate you being vulnerable,

00:27:58.920 | saying, I'm not good at this thing.

00:28:00.320 | 'Cause I think from the outside, everyone's like,

00:28:02.360 | Gary must be great at everything.

00:28:04.080 | - Yeah, and honestly, from the outside,

00:28:05.520 | I think a lot of people,

00:28:06.360 | back to the way we started this podcast,

00:28:07.840 | assume I'm not good at a lot of things.

00:28:10.080 | For example, people are blown away

00:28:12.460 | when they hear that I don't like conflict,

00:28:14.340 | because on public stages and in podcasts,

00:28:17.920 | especially 'cause I always talk about innovation

00:28:19.760 | and breaking things, seemingly, I like it.

00:28:22.760 | So, there's different versions.

00:28:26.120 | I think the other thing for everybody who's listening

00:28:28.040 | is like, look, a very important thing,

00:28:31.160 | back to judgment, is I don't make assumptions about anybody.

00:28:35.580 | Like every person I know that I don't know,

00:28:39.000 | I make almost no assumptions.

00:28:41.280 | You don't know if they're aunt.

00:28:44.320 | I'll give you an example of shit I think about

00:28:46.280 | when somebody's judging someone.

00:28:47.720 | Like, oh, someone famous like Ryan Reynolds

00:28:50.400 | has the best life ever.

00:28:52.420 | You don't know if the most important person

00:28:54.800 | in that person's life was his aunt who was a mother figure

00:28:58.620 | and she's been diagnosed with terminal cancer.

00:29:01.280 | How do you think that person's walking around right now?

00:29:03.600 | You know, or in your office,

00:29:04.640 | like that person got the promotion.

00:29:06.320 | They're so lucky.

00:29:07.220 | Are they?

00:29:08.060 | You don't know that their spouse might be dealing

00:29:10.460 | with alcoholism currently right now.

00:29:13.360 | You know, so, you know, I think it's,

00:29:14.680 | I'm glad you brought that up.

00:29:15.920 | I think another thing that really works for my temperament,

00:29:18.840 | for my peace of mind, for my joy,

00:29:21.160 | is my lack of capacity to make assumptions

00:29:25.080 | about other people's lives.

00:29:26.560 | Like I just, there's nobody I think has a great.

00:29:30.280 | It's inconceivable.

00:29:31.120 | Everyone's a human.

00:29:32.420 | It's inevitable.

00:29:33.260 | And by the way, even when someone does have a great,

00:29:35.800 | and people have had, I've had 'em,

00:29:37.920 | people have had 'em, eight year, nine year,

00:29:39.600 | six year, 12 year, 20 year runs.

00:29:42.320 | Life is too challenging.

00:29:43.940 | I know friends who I know intimately

00:29:46.600 | and know well enough to say the following,

00:29:48.920 | great 10, seven, 12 years, and then boom, child sick.

00:29:53.160 | Great 10, 12 years, and boom,

00:29:54.880 | father was the rock of the family, gone, heart attack.

00:29:57.840 | So, you know, this concept that somebody's got a great life

00:30:03.520 | is like just incredibly judgmental

00:30:06.400 | and lacks like the nuances I think are required.

00:30:08.800 | And I think we are at a hyperbole

00:30:11.680 | of this judgment world now.

00:30:12.920 | We are full headline reading.

00:30:14.480 | We are full cancel culture.

00:30:16.080 | We are full assumptions.

00:30:17.700 | We are full envy.

00:30:19.120 | And I don't think this is a social media thing.

00:30:21.840 | This is what's always happened.

00:30:23.000 | We're just hearing us talk it out.

00:30:25.040 | You know, people in well-to-do neighborhoods for years

00:30:28.380 | have envied the person that's the richest

00:30:30.800 | or the handsomest husband or the,

00:30:33.640 | like people just, you know,

00:30:35.240 | really need to get back to like being insular,

00:30:38.600 | loving themselves, thus allowing them

00:30:40.400 | to start to love others.

00:30:42.080 | - I mean, you said earlier people would be happier

00:30:43.920 | if they weren't chasing money.

00:30:45.320 | They weren't chasing dreams.

00:30:46.240 | They weren't chasing status.

00:30:48.000 | - Dreams you should chase.

00:30:49.880 | - Okay, fair.

00:30:50.720 | - Right, like I want to be the best surfer.

00:30:52.640 | That's fun.

00:30:53.480 | Like dreams are fun when you don't beat yourself up

00:30:56.680 | on accomplishing it.

00:30:58.600 | When you champion yourself on trying to accomplish it.

00:31:02.840 | And then you being realistic about it.

00:31:06.560 | But go ahead, what was your thought?

00:31:08.040 | - No, part of that was you said

00:31:09.760 | people were doing what they love

00:31:11.440 | and weren't as focused on money.

00:31:12.720 | They'd probably be a lot happier.

00:31:14.640 | I want to spend a couple minutes on something

00:31:16.680 | that you've talked about before,

00:31:17.940 | but to someone listening who's like, okay, I want that.

00:31:20.560 | I can learn to detach from the need to be as good

00:31:24.260 | as I might perceive someone to be,

00:31:25.800 | which might actually, you might be completely wrong.

00:31:28.600 | On the figuring out what you should be doing front,

00:31:31.580 | have you seen people make that discovery

00:31:35.000 | of like that's the thing that I should be doing?

00:31:37.480 | And are there things they did to get there?

00:31:39.640 | - Yes, I've seen it a lot

00:31:40.960 | because of what I talk about

00:31:42.040 | and how many DMs and emails I read for the last 15 years.

00:31:45.400 | So far, it all happens from extremes.

00:31:49.080 | Horrible divorce.

00:31:50.540 | Now, whomever the wife or the husband

00:31:54.720 | is in like a financially challenged situation,

00:31:57.680 | like life's different.

00:31:59.160 | And they're forced into doing something.

00:32:02.560 | And they just happen to be consuming mind

00:32:05.640 | and other positioning of like,

00:32:06.960 | if you're gonna do this, do something you like.

00:32:08.600 | And all of a sudden, they have a business making kites.

00:32:12.040 | This is a real one.

00:32:13.140 | And it was just really therapy

00:32:15.920 | 'cause there was so much pain.

00:32:17.320 | And kites, I mean, I remember this email vividly.

00:32:20.000 | Kites were a big part of their childhood and they enjoyed.

00:32:22.420 | And it was really nasty.

00:32:23.600 | Like not, it was very challenging.

00:32:25.920 | The father that flew kites with this person

00:32:28.320 | passed and then six months later, divorce.

00:32:30.560 | And then like really in a challenging spot.

00:32:32.940 | And this person decided to follow the passion route

00:32:35.880 | versus getting a job like everyone told them.

00:32:38.000 | And she sold kites on Etsy.

00:32:40.680 | And like four years later,

00:32:42.760 | was selling like $400,000 a year in kites.

00:32:47.280 | And so like that or the complete other side,

00:32:51.300 | someone just hearing the message in the right way

00:32:53.640 | and realizing in their early 20s,

00:32:55.600 | you have nothing but capacity for risk

00:32:58.320 | and decided to like run into it,

00:33:00.440 | which is like, and I've seen a lot of versions,

00:33:02.520 | just being very humble and aware

00:33:04.300 | that they are in a financial family

00:33:05.820 | that allows them to go full risk for passion.

00:33:08.480 | Just having a parachute and a landing route.

00:33:10.840 | The reverse, so pissed at their often Asian or immigrant

00:33:15.760 | or Indian parents of like,

00:33:17.040 | I'm not gonna be a doctor or engineer you fucking assholes.

00:33:19.520 | Like I'm going for it.

00:33:20.760 | So like in extremes, I've seen it in extremes.

00:33:24.040 | I'm hoping to get those edges

00:33:26.560 | into the middle a little more.

00:33:28.040 | I'm hoping someone right now who's just like,

00:33:30.000 | to me the dream state is the person who's listening now

00:33:32.080 | that's making 210 and living a 250 lifestyle.

00:33:36.580 | They make $210,000 a year.

00:33:38.380 | They live a $250,000 lifestyle.

00:33:40.660 | And they realize that if they lived $100,000 lifestyle,

00:33:43.680 | it would take the golden handcuffs off of them

00:33:46.080 | to maybe take the leap and go for it.

00:33:48.260 | So they're obsessed with cooking

00:33:50.300 | and they want their own little like bakery,

00:33:54.500 | but they don't have any savings.

00:33:56.100 | 'Cause again, their apartment's too expensive.

00:33:58.180 | Their car's too expensive.

00:33:59.300 | Their vacations are too expensive.

00:34:00.660 | Their nights out are too expensive.

00:34:02.540 | They order bagels on Seamless and Postmates.

00:34:06.420 | Like do you know how many people buy $30 bagels currently?

00:34:09.300 | Chris, like a lot. - I don't, I want to not.

00:34:11.740 | - Well, but we know this like,

00:34:13.420 | and this is more like the Uber thing

00:34:14.740 | that we learned years ago.

00:34:15.660 | Like people will pay for convenience at scale.

00:34:18.580 | There are people right now who are buying $30 bagels

00:34:21.580 | and don't even realize it, right?

00:34:22.620 | They're buying an $8 bagel on Postmates or Seamless

00:34:25.260 | or Uber Eats, but then there's the surcharge,

00:34:27.340 | the charge, the delivery fee.

00:34:29.020 | They kind of are blindly on the tip

00:34:30.420 | 'cause they want to be a good person.

00:34:31.480 | Like you kind of wake up and it's a $28 bagel.

00:34:34.620 | Like, and that person is,

00:34:36.220 | that same person is buying a $28 bagel

00:34:38.100 | 'cause they make $210,000 a year.

00:34:40.140 | But deep down, they're like,

00:34:41.460 | they hate being in this law firm more than life.

00:34:43.980 | Like literally can't wait to five or six o'clock every day.

00:34:47.020 | Truly can't.

00:34:48.380 | Yet want to own a bakery.

00:34:50.540 | Yet like want to start a podcast on Star Trek.

00:34:53.900 | Yet like, and I believe they can,

00:34:56.940 | but do they have the humility to move back in

00:34:58.620 | with their 50 or 60 or 70 or 80 year old parents?

00:35:01.820 | Probably not.

00:35:02.800 | Do they have the humility to like get a roommate?

00:35:05.740 | Probably not.

00:35:06.580 | Like do they have the awareness to say,

00:35:10.060 | I should move out of New York

00:35:11.260 | and maybe move to a suburb of Wisconsin

00:35:14.860 | because I actually like the outdoors

00:35:16.620 | and my lifestyle there can afford it?

00:35:18.940 | Like, especially right now, I got one,

00:35:21.900 | I haven't thought about this until this exact microsecond.

00:35:24.220 | We are living right now in a world

00:35:26.220 | where a lot of companies will let you work remote.

00:35:29.260 | I've been talking about this whole quit your job,

00:35:31.300 | start your life by going humble.

00:35:33.680 | How about don't quit your job, ask for a move.

00:35:37.040 | And so you literally go from New York, LA,

00:35:40.220 | San Francisco, Dallas to literally lower cost,

00:35:43.700 | deep suburbs of those places.

00:35:45.500 | You know, my parents live an hour and a half

00:35:46.740 | from this office.

00:35:48.140 | Living in Hunterdon County, New Jersey,

00:35:49.520 | you can live for a lot less than living in Manhattan.

00:35:52.820 | Could you do that?

00:35:54.500 | And could you take those savings,

00:35:56.820 | could you cut out the $30 bagel?

00:35:58.780 | Can you take one less vacation?

00:36:00.280 | Could you trade in the car you have now for a downgrade?

00:36:03.100 | And can you take all those savings on that 210,

00:36:05.660 | now you're living a 130 lifestyle, right?

00:36:08.020 | And can you stack 30,000 savings three years in a row

00:36:10.660 | to give you that $100,000 nest egg to go?

00:36:13.480 | That's a level of practicality around passion

00:36:15.660 | that I hope becomes a bigger norm.

00:36:17.560 | - Totally agree.

00:36:19.360 | I actually have been thinking about this

00:36:20.840 | as you're talking that my new hypothesis

00:36:23.260 | is that once you start doing the thing that you really like,

00:36:26.640 | you actually probably will care less

00:36:28.800 | about all these other things going on, right?

00:36:30.500 | If you hate your job, like of course you're like,

00:36:33.220 | oh, I need these other things to make me happy,

00:36:35.100 | my friends have these things.

00:36:37.340 | - It's all in, all out.

00:36:39.700 | - Yeah.

00:36:40.540 | - Like when I work out, I eat better.

00:36:42.760 | If I don't work out in the morning, I eat worse.

00:36:45.260 | So it's an all in or all out.

00:36:46.960 | When you like what you do,

00:36:48.580 | the majority of your life, aka your job,

00:36:51.860 | well then all of a sudden you aren't spending $50

00:36:54.900 | on cocktails after work to deal with what's going on.

00:36:59.100 | You don't have seven streaming services

00:37:01.540 | to escape what's going on.

00:37:03.180 | You like don't find band-aids.

00:37:05.600 | You get, you know, like you don't find band-aids

00:37:09.160 | for the issue and the issue is your relationship

00:37:12.060 | and your job.

00:37:13.340 | And like figuring that out is massive.

00:37:16.280 | - I got two final things.

00:37:17.340 | One, so you're all in on the,

00:37:18.980 | let's say you're all in on something,

00:37:19.900 | which I kind of am on this podcast.

00:37:21.540 | It's like I found the thing that's me.

00:37:22.760 | It's my calling.

00:37:23.600 | Once you love it so much, you know,

00:37:26.020 | I know you have kids.

00:37:26.860 | How do you find this balance of I love what I'm doing?

00:37:29.540 | A part of me is like I could spend every waking hour

00:37:32.780 | thinking about it, but I also love this other thing.

00:37:34.740 | I have these two big ambitions.

00:37:35.900 | - You wanna mitigate regret.

00:37:38.060 | And like anybody who has kids realizes

00:37:39.980 | like you don't wanna wake up when they're 20

00:37:42.020 | and realize your relationship isn't strong

00:37:43.900 | and they don't wanna see you anymore.

00:37:45.180 | And like they were accustomed to living

00:37:47.300 | without you being in their lives

00:37:48.620 | and like it's devastating.

00:37:49.900 | And so I just think you're thoughtful.

00:37:51.620 | I think, look, there's no such thing as balance.

00:37:54.260 | There's your subjective opinion of balance, right?

00:37:58.500 | I love when people like judge

00:38:00.300 | other people's work-life balance.

00:38:01.740 | You don't know their family.

00:38:02.620 | This goes back to a lot of things we talked about.

00:38:04.380 | So I think for every person here, be willing to adapt.

00:38:07.540 | I've changed and ebbed and flow multiple times

00:38:10.620 | over the last 15 years on it.

00:38:12.220 | All here, this, more there, less, weekend.

00:38:14.820 | Like, you know, I think everyone's got their own thing.

00:38:17.100 | Like, you know, I work very hard Monday through Friday,

00:38:19.740 | and I'm pretty checked out on weekends and holidays.

00:38:23.860 | And when I say pretty checked out, I'm checked out.

00:38:25.980 | Like, unless there's a super fire, right?

00:38:28.380 | And so other people may work nine to six

00:38:32.220 | or nine to five during the week,

00:38:33.420 | but they're also working on the weekend

00:38:35.300 | on their phone the whole time.

00:38:36.380 | Like, everyone plays it different.

00:38:37.980 | And by the way, you may go all in

00:38:39.740 | for three years on this podcast

00:38:41.180 | 'cause there's a moment right now, right?

00:38:44.100 | And, but then in three years, you may be like,

00:38:46.460 | wait a minute, I've done that.

00:38:48.860 | So like, look over here, these little ones are getting big.

00:38:51.260 | And like, wait a minute, I'm worried.

00:38:52.940 | And so you can go all in there.

00:38:54.020 | Like, people can find balance in extremes.

00:38:58.140 | You can't judge yourself on a day-to-day basis

00:39:01.780 | on these big issues.

00:39:03.700 | It's a bigger thing than that.

00:39:05.580 | You know, look at all the people that reconcile

00:39:08.060 | with their relationships years later and have great,

00:39:11.140 | I mean, I have a friend who didn't speak

00:39:13.060 | to their father for 40 years,

00:39:15.700 | and now has had an incredible five years.

00:39:18.260 | And that's because they've leaned into forgiveness.

00:39:21.180 | You know, like, I think you gotta,

00:39:22.900 | I think it starts with forgiving yourself.

00:39:25.060 | You know, back to your question.

00:39:26.220 | Like, there's a lot of parents right now

00:39:27.460 | who have 17-year-olds who are like, oh, too late.

00:39:29.700 | No, not too late.

00:39:32.140 | Like, there's never a bad day

00:39:34.660 | to start doing the right thing.

00:39:36.900 | - Yeah.

00:39:37.740 | - Like, if you're 62 and you've never been good

00:39:39.500 | at health and wellness, good news.

00:39:42.260 | Tomorrow is a good idea to do it.

00:39:45.780 | If you have 18-year-old twins and you've worked

00:39:49.020 | on just your career for the last 18 years,

00:39:51.460 | and you can sense they're about to go to college

00:39:53.180 | and they don't give a shit about you.

00:39:54.940 | They love you, but they're accustomed

00:39:57.220 | to not having you be a big part of their lives, good news.

00:40:00.660 | You could visit them every weekend at college.

00:40:02.540 | Probably a bad idea.

00:40:03.620 | They might not like that.

00:40:04.740 | But, like, you could start today to put it in.

00:40:08.180 | If you are angry at your mother

00:40:10.340 | and you've got 20 years of resentment built up,

00:40:12.940 | like, good news.

00:40:14.100 | Today is the day you can start therapy.

00:40:16.780 | Today is the day you can go have a canterous conversation

00:40:19.860 | that is built on compassion for your mom,

00:40:22.140 | that gets some of the poison out.

00:40:23.740 | Like, there is never a bad day

00:40:26.580 | to start doing the right things that are most upsetting you.

00:40:29.980 | - I love it.

00:40:31.780 | The last thing, kids, you know, everyone listening

00:40:36.060 | could share this with their parents.

00:40:37.140 | They could share it with their spouse.

00:40:38.260 | They could start to think about these lessons.

00:40:40.380 | I can't go share this with a one, a three-year-old,

00:40:42.460 | probably not a five, six, seven-year-old.

00:40:44.820 | Are there things you're doing to try to instill,

00:40:47.140 | let's take your kind of 12 and a half lessons.

00:40:49.580 | - Self-esteem.

00:40:50.500 | - That's the thing.

00:40:52.260 | - That's the thing.

00:40:53.100 | And not delusional self-esteem.

00:40:55.260 | - Okay.

00:40:56.140 | - If your seven-year-old loves Beyonce,

00:40:58.820 | but when she's running around the house singing,

00:41:01.180 | like, literally, you have to put earplugs in

00:41:03.620 | 'cause it's the worst sound you've ever heard,

00:41:06.140 | it's probably a bad idea to tell her

00:41:08.180 | she can be Beyonce one day too.

00:41:10.740 | It's not a bad idea to say, if she puts in a lot of work,

00:41:13.860 | she could be better at singing than she is today.

00:41:16.360 | These sort of, so to me, it's self-esteem.

00:41:20.500 | Also, what do you compliment your kids on?

00:41:23.540 | If you're complimenting your kids constantly

00:41:25.500 | on how attractive they are, you're so beautiful,

00:41:27.700 | you're so cute, you're so handsome,

00:41:29.820 | you're instilling affirmation on that,

00:41:31.940 | which is gonna affect them when they're in their 30s,

00:41:33.900 | 40s, 50s, and 60s 'cause that's gonna be their self-worth.

00:41:37.100 | If you're telling them that they're remarkable

00:41:39.140 | because they're getting A's in school,

00:41:41.120 | you're teaching them to conform to systems

00:41:43.140 | that aren't real once they become 22.

00:41:46.060 | Might not be the best idea.

00:41:48.140 | You know, eighth place trophies bother me,

00:41:50.340 | not because I'm so competitive,

00:41:51.900 | but because you're telling your kids that losing is bad.

00:41:55.180 | Like, kids are smart.

00:41:56.760 | Kids are smart.

00:41:58.860 | So they realize the reason they're getting

00:42:00.100 | an eighth place trophy is like you, as the parent,

00:42:02.060 | don't want them to feel losing.

00:42:04.020 | Losing is bad.

00:42:05.480 | The problem is losing is such a fundamental part of life

00:42:09.580 | that you're teaching kids to be scared of it

00:42:12.040 | instead of leaning into it.

00:42:14.220 | So I think, for me, it's practical self-esteem, truth.

00:42:19.220 | - What do you compliment your kids on?

00:42:22.160 | - Their humanity.

00:42:23.180 | Whenever I see them interact with humans

00:42:27.720 | and are kind, compassionate, empathetic,

00:42:31.600 | when my son will go over to somebody who gets hurt,

00:42:34.300 | I mean, he drilled a line drive off of when coaches

00:42:37.800 | were pitching two years ago when he was eight.

00:42:40.760 | He drilled.

00:42:41.940 | He was very good at baseball between like six and 10.

00:42:45.440 | Drilled a line drive that drilled the head coach.

00:42:48.920 | He ran, you know, he hit it,

00:42:50.140 | so he started running towards first base and he stopped

00:42:52.920 | and like in the middle of the base path

00:42:55.000 | and asked the head coach if he was okay.

00:42:57.260 | You know, after the game, the coach came up to him,

00:42:59.720 | he's like, "Look, I've been hit a lot of times

00:43:01.480 | "in the history, I've been doing it for 30 years."

00:43:03.400 | He's like, "I've never had a kid just stop and do that."

00:43:06.200 | And I bring that up to my son every day.

00:43:10.000 | Like, do you know how good of a person you are?

00:43:12.000 | Even though you're so competitive

00:43:13.080 | in baseball as your passion, like you did that.

00:43:15.440 | The humanity of it versus the thing.

00:43:18.300 | So I try to focus on those things.

00:43:20.660 | - I love it.

00:43:21.700 | I feel like this is not the conversation

00:43:23.140 | I think a lot of people thought we were gonna have

00:43:24.840 | and I like that.

00:43:26.040 | Any final words or where people should go to see more Gary?

00:43:30.220 | - You know, I think building off of what you just said,

00:43:32.300 | I think it was a theme of everything.

00:43:34.200 | Like, books by covers is a real issue

00:43:37.080 | in our society right now.

00:43:38.680 | I think, you know, for me, I think to your point,

00:43:42.400 | I think 90% of your audience will be like,

00:43:45.280 | "Oh, that was interesting.

00:43:46.120 | "Didn't see that going that way."

00:43:47.460 | I think for 10% of your audience,

00:43:49.040 | when you just said that, they're like,

00:43:49.940 | "What are you talking about, Chris?

00:43:50.780 | "That is Gary."

00:43:51.800 | Why?

00:43:52.640 | Because they've allocated the time to go deeper.

00:43:55.040 | I think, you know, we are really in it

00:43:58.760 | in our society right now, politically, socially,

00:44:01.620 | nationalism, geopolitically.

00:44:04.580 | There's a lot going on.

00:44:05.940 | And we're also affected by the last 30 years of parenting

00:44:09.820 | where I do think we over swung too far in certain areas

00:44:13.340 | like eighth place trophies,

00:44:14.820 | which has made a lot of people anxious.

00:44:16.900 | You know, so what I would say as a final thought is,

00:44:21.500 | if you find yourself thinking that in this interview

00:44:23.640 | or any other of Chris's interviews,

00:44:25.980 | it's definitely what made me think about the world.

00:44:29.160 | Like when I started going through my 20s and 30s

00:44:31.640 | and meeting people that I had different thoughts of.

00:44:34.520 | And then when I got to double click in,

00:44:36.720 | either in person or through content consumption,

00:44:39.780 | I'm like, "Ah, right."

00:44:42.380 | And so I think, you know,

00:44:43.960 | that will lead to a much happier life.

00:44:46.380 | But like the theme of this whole podcast,

00:44:48.160 | it starts with yourself.

00:44:50.200 | Finding how to not judge yourself for your shortcomings

00:44:53.040 | and accept yourself for your shortcomings.

00:44:56.100 | And champion and be proud of your strengths

00:44:58.980 | is a really nice framework to be able to do it for others,

00:45:01.220 | especially your children, your spouse, your parents,

00:45:03.860 | and then going to your friends and acquaintances.

00:45:06.660 | And then just the world.

00:45:08.380 | I think this world desperately needs more civility

00:45:11.240 | and warmth.

00:45:12.260 | And I think people are looking for others to provide it.

00:45:15.700 | And I think back to accountability,

00:45:17.420 | it starts with yourself.

00:45:18.260 | And so I think you're capable of it.

00:45:19.460 | I really do, whether that's therapy

00:45:21.260 | or listening to different things

00:45:22.420 | or starting a regimen of health or wellness

00:45:26.880 | or mindset that gets you to that place.

00:45:28.820 | And I think you should do that

00:45:30.600 | 'cause it's a lot more fun to live life happy

00:45:33.760 | because final thought,

00:45:35.860 | you were dead for a long time, aka not born,

00:45:38.800 | and you will be dead forever.

00:45:40.580 | And so I think it's a good idea

00:45:42.120 | to maximize your hundred years, God willing.

00:45:44.320 | And so consider that.

00:45:46.560 | - I love it.

00:45:47.400 | Reach out if this was helpful.

00:45:48.680 | I'm sure they can reach out to you online.

00:45:50.440 | Gary's easy to find on the internet.

00:45:52.040 | - Thank you so much for being here.

00:45:53.600 | - Thank you.

GaryVee on the Power of Kindness, Self-Awareness, and Passion

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