Cal Newport Tries TikTok Live on the Air. It Doesn’t Go Well.

00:00:00.000 | are you tired of of doom scrolling are you tired of social media taking up more and more of your

00:00:06.640 | mental space and making your life somehow more constrained and somehow like less less alive or

00:00:13.280 | vibrant well back in 2024 i recorded a podcast episode that was exactly about how to free

00:00:20.320 | yourself from the situation i gave step-by-step advice for what i called decluttering your life

00:00:25.680 | today anyways it was really popular it's one of the more popular episodes i've aired

00:00:29.680 | but what i want to play for you now is like the core clip from that episode because i think this advice

00:00:34.480 | is just as useful right now as it was back then check this out i think it's going to

00:00:40.720 | really make a difference for you so one of the things i'm most known for is the fact that i have

00:00:46.640 | never used social media my 2016 ted talk which is titled quit social media just past the 10 million view

00:00:57.200 | mark my 2019 book digital minimalism has sold hundreds of thousands of copies in recent years

00:01:04.880 | i've been extensively covering the social media industry from a critical perspective

00:01:10.000 | for the new yorker so this is something that i am deeply associated with it occurred to me recently

00:01:16.240 | however um how do i know i'm not missing out on something special what if social media really has

00:01:23.040 | evolved into something that is a a true source of value in a way that i am forgetting so i thought

00:01:28.560 | today it might be fun if i was to actually live here in the show load up some actual social media apps

00:01:37.760 | and see what's going on jesse you can attest i did not look at these in advance so god knows what

00:01:42.720 | we're going to find yep but we're going to look into some social media together and then talk about how we

00:01:47.520 | might uh repair our relationship with these tools jesse it would be funny if uh when i turn on

00:01:54.400 | these tools it turns out that you know i'm in the middle of like a global canceling campaign that i

00:01:58.720 | didn't realize that cancel cal is like the number one trending hashtag would be a funny way to figure that

00:02:06.080 | out all right let's let's look at some real social media uh for those who are watching at home i'm

00:02:09.840 | bringing this up on the screen we're starting with twitter or as the kids call it today x let's see

00:02:16.480 | what we can find all right right right off the bat there is a tweet response here so there's a tweet

00:02:23.440 | i don't know if you can see this uh there's a tweet first of all that's showing taylor swift hugging

00:02:29.760 | travis kelsey after their super bowl win we're recording this a couple days after the super bowl

00:02:36.000 | the original tweet says imagine being against this all right but this tweet is being responded to

00:02:42.720 | this response says oh lord okay this response from smug fecundity so i'm sure this is going to be very

00:02:50.960 | well reasoned and compassionate is the following look i hope everyone finds a wonderful spouse and brings

00:02:57.840 | 10 kids into the world and raises them together here's why this falls flat for quote the audience end

00:03:03.440 | quote there is no hero's journey no character arc this is a perfect example of potential marriage

00:03:09.440 | as the capstone to a perfect life and i'm against this message jesse i don't even know if i know what

00:03:14.400 | that means i don't know what that means either okay i smug fecundity is upset that taylor swift is

00:03:20.240 | hugging travis kelsey um i wonder if she's whispering into his ears only two receptions for serious yardage

00:03:28.080 | come on travis you can do better see that could be on twitter all you got to do is like think of um

00:03:33.120 | something mean to say and hope that you get clout for it let me click on something else on here

00:03:36.800 | uh hashtag farmers protest all right let's just see what else is going on on twitter

00:03:43.360 | um i don't know this is a protest going on in india it looks like and then there's a lot of arguing back and

00:03:53.200 | forth about um what's going on so let me read this they're fighting for regime change on behalf

00:03:59.440 | opposition parties said the professional protester cheese ver singh uh and here's some video of what

00:04:07.760 | looks like tear gas and a crowd there's a drone flight all right look this is i think this is like

00:04:14.240 | classic as i would expect this is classic twitter and i don't mean this in a dismissive way because what

00:04:19.680 | we're seeing here is both the good and the bad in twitter the bad i think is let's all just take a

00:04:25.520 | pop culture event involving people that are impossibly distant from us like super bowl champions and taylor

00:04:30.800 | swift and just take turns seeing who can say like the more uh mean thing or smarmy thing and sort of hope

00:04:38.320 | we get clout on the other hand we also see twitter highlighting here a protest happening in india that you

00:04:46.240 | know maybe you otherwise wouldn't come across it unless you were reading a newspaper all right so

00:04:50.480 | there's twitter let's check in on some other social media see what we are missing all right let me load

00:04:56.880 | up a browser here we've jumped now on the instagram the gram as i'm told it's uh called um i'm on

00:05:05.520 | the page here jesse loaded up is popular hashtag so i don't know if that actually means popular post or

00:05:11.760 | posts that just happen to be associated with the word popular um i'm gonna click on one all right

00:05:17.040 | i should be nervous jesse if i click on this post is it going to be something let's see it looks harmless

00:05:22.720 | it looks like uh a nice couple in their young 30s well dressed with complicated glasses uh arms interlocked

00:05:30.320 | so let's click on this post oh i gotta log in oh well this is good this means jesse you don't use

00:05:35.040 | instagram all right so we can't actually click on these without logging in so let's just look at them

00:05:39.920 | uh that looks nice here's a person with huge muscles in the gym uh looking nice we have

00:05:46.720 | people on vacation this is kind of classic instagram looking over a nice swimming pool with cabana so

00:05:52.800 | they're probably bragging about their vacation all right so uh here's a football thing all right

00:05:59.440 | this is a classic instagram people everyone looks kind of happy everyone looks like they're in good

00:06:04.240 | shape everyone is sort of showing off a life that they're want you to think is good all right god

00:06:11.120 | help us let's jump over to tick tock all right what am i looking at here it's a person playing a video game

00:06:16.160 | all right i mean good i suppose uh oh i see so is it look at this so this is classic tick tock every

00:06:24.320 | time i touch the screen it just throws up another video as soon as i get bored all right here's a girl

00:06:28.320 | saying how much do i owe you someone else says it's okay it's on the house i don't even know what

00:06:32.880 | they are showing probably something inappropriate here's a video game let me swipe again uh i got

00:06:38.240 | hired security guard at a pizzeria they're pouring stuff onto avocados they fried an avocado all right

00:06:46.160 | fine here is some sort of mashed potato dinosaur volcano my god look at this jesse you just like keep

00:06:54.320 | flipping and it's it's here's something ah that's weird okay next uh that's weird okay so there we go

00:07:01.040 | we've seen we've checked in on social media in 2024 all right so here's my take look there's nothing

00:07:08.160 | intrinsically evil about what i just saw um there's nothing inherently bad about engaging with anything

00:07:14.480 | i just saw but i can tell you as an outsider who doesn't use these services who is looking at these

00:07:19.840 | with fresh eyes uh guys this stuff is really weird it's really weird looking at what we just saw there

00:07:28.160 | uh not in isolation that any one of those things is crazy but that the foundation for a huge portion

00:07:35.920 | of our culture the foundation of their engagement with their leisure time is based on these types of

00:07:41.920 | interactions that i find to be strange we get used to things once we've been in that world but the

00:07:48.160 | outsider perspective here is these these short videos the people uh trying to be smug about

00:07:54.400 | celebrities and who can outdo each other this pictures of various people's vacations for this

00:07:59.840 | to be the foundation of your engagement with leisure if a time traveler came forward from 2005 and looked

00:08:06.880 | at what i just looked at it's not that they would be horrified by the individual things i really do think

00:08:11.440 | however they would be somewhat perplexed by the idea that this is the foundation of our culture's

00:08:17.280 | engagement with leisure this stuff is okay but it really does not seem like this should be the core

00:08:24.080 | of how we engage with the world um outside of our work so if you agree with this what should we do about

00:08:32.400 | it if you're like you know what i don't want to oh my god the video now jesse because the tick

00:08:37.840 | tock's on my screen here still they're pouring gravy down the mashed potato mountain you see that

00:08:44.800 | i'm just just imagine you're the time traveler from 2005 like okay so i'm watching on the music

00:08:50.560 | plane is the jurassic world theme song while gravy pours down a shoot carved into a mashed potato mountain

00:08:58.640 | covered with chicken nugget dinosaurs

00:09:01.200 | the the algonquin algonquin round table this is not all right so we could do better we can we could do

00:09:10.080 | better than making this the main thing we're looking at all right so how do we make this better well let

00:09:14.640 | me start with the biggest mistake people make when they finally get fed up with uh how much time they're

00:09:19.520 | looking at their phone the biggest mistake people make is they go straight to white knuckle abstention you

00:09:26.000 | you know what i am fed up with people's comments on taylor swift and dinosaur dinosaur mountains so no

00:09:32.480 | more no more phone and i'm going to actually feel righteous by the fact i don't use my phone

00:09:37.440 | you know these people because they will tell you immediately that they don't use social media or

00:09:41.120 | their phone they will work it into uh every conversation you can be in a building that's on

00:09:46.480 | fire and you can say this way this way this is the only staircase that's not engulfed in flames

00:09:50.720 | quickly and they'd be like great uh don't worry about this going on instagram i don't check instagram

00:09:56.800 | anymore i have an account but i barely and then they catch on fire so you know when people are doing

00:10:01.840 | white knuckle abstention because they talk all the time about it that alone doesn't work very well

00:10:07.760 | my philosophy of digital minimalism my approach for dealing with these issues argues that these tools

00:10:15.280 | push out other things in your life and therefore then feel a void that those things used to fill

00:10:19.760 | when you just do white knuckle abstention you are faced with the yawning void of boredom

00:10:28.080 | and your own thoughts and anxiety it's very uncomfortable you just sit there like what am i

00:10:32.480 | supposed to do you need something to have that smoothing distraction so the first step is not to abstain

00:10:39.680 | from your phone the first step is forget your phone do what you want to do on your phone watch

00:10:42.720 | your dino mountain gravy videos but start adding at the same time really quality alternatives

00:10:49.760 | start adding into your life things that can eventually take the place of just looking at your phone

00:10:57.360 | that can eat away at that sensation of boredom and anxiety of being alone with your own thoughts

00:11:04.480 | that drives us back to the sucker of low quality distractions so what would these things look

00:11:09.360 | like i'm going to give you six different things we'll call this our high quality leisure toolkit

00:11:14.080 | six different things that you should probably engage with all of them to some degree in your life

00:11:19.600 | in preparation to change in your relationship with your phone one is going to be reading

00:11:23.680 | you should read a lot more this could be a mix of things that are just really fun

00:11:29.440 | magazine articles or books that are really fun to read as well as things that are smarter

00:11:36.400 | a recent episode of this show jesse i don't know if that was 286 maybe i got into how to engage with

00:11:43.120 | this higher quality leisure how to learn to engage with harder books so you might want to check out that

00:11:49.040 | episode all right second higher quality video media prestige tv movies documentaries this is another piece of this

00:11:58.000 | toolkit uh this is content which i'm going to go out on a limb here um and guess that slightly more money

00:12:07.040 | and time was invested than in the video of gravy being poured down the mashed potato dinosaur mountain

00:12:12.320 | so stuff in which real creative energy and focused effort was placed number three skill based hobby

00:12:19.360 | something you're into that requires a skill you can get better at your results get better as that skill improves

00:12:24.880 | this creates a feedback loop that our mind really likes that can be more compelling to our mind

00:12:29.200 | than low quality distraction hey i'm working on this new project that is more advanced than i've done

00:12:36.240 | before i think i might pull it off this is compelling to me compelling enough that these other lower quality

00:12:42.720 | distractions aren't so strong in their appeal four have some sort of exercise based hobby some sort of

00:12:49.680 | physical fitness where you're trying to build a streak finish a hit some marks in terms of where you want

00:12:56.000 | to get in your health some sort of serious engagement with the physical among other things this frees up

00:13:02.720 | it frees up your body it releases these chemicals into your mind that makes you less uh gets you out of this

00:13:12.000 | torporific state of i'm low energy i want to minimize energy what's the lowest energy thing i can do to

00:13:19.120 | engage it puts you more into a state of we're active our muscles are growing our lungs are being used it

00:13:24.240 | changes your look outlook at the world number five get involved with communities that meet regularly even if

00:13:30.000 | this is just friends that you have a standing we go and see a movie every other week we go to dinner once

00:13:36.240 | a month or a bigger uh more organized activity a league or a group that you go to have something that meets

00:13:44.000 | regularly that involves other people and six seek out adventures i want to go travel to see the sports team

00:13:52.400 | play at the away stadium i want to go to this museum there's a special exhibit that's coming i want to go

00:13:59.760 | read by a waterfall that i heard about that takes a two mile hike to get to things that are above and

00:14:06.240 | beyond what's easy and a really cool could create a really interesting experience if you have these six

00:14:12.000 | things in your life reading high quality tv movies skilled based hobby exercise based hobby regular

00:14:18.160 | meeting communities and adventures take some time to add all these into your life now you're going to be

00:14:25.360 | in a position where the monopoly that your phone has on your time and attention has dissipated

00:14:30.400 | it is now competing against higher quality versions of things that can satisfy the same needs that were

00:14:39.520 | driving you to your phone those needs are going to drive you one way or the other but the phone gives

00:14:45.440 | you a low fidelity solution to what you crave these high quality leisure activities give you a higher

00:14:53.280 | fidelity uh solution and therefore they're going to more be more easily victorious all right so that's

00:15:01.440 | step one you put alternatives to your phone in your life before you even worry about your phone habits

00:15:07.040 | step two we declutter now this is the core idea from my book digital minimalism i don't believe in

00:15:13.680 | detoxing in the sense of take a break and then go back to what you're doing before

00:15:17.040 | i believe in decluttering so you step away you take a break as step one of making permanent change

00:15:23.760 | so the way this works is that you take 30 days where you are now ready to stop using these optional

00:15:30.080 | digital technologies in your life the tick tock the instagram the twitter uh used to the video games

00:15:37.280 | youtube you step away from these optional technologies but now you're prepared to do

00:15:43.680 | so because you have these six areas of high quality leisure already in your life already rock and rolling

00:15:48.800 | just lean heavily into those you're not staring into the void you're not sitting there uh like a detoxing

00:15:55.840 | drug addicts shaking like what am i going to do next you're doing other things so you're getting

00:16:01.200 | a taste of life without these tools in doing so you can see what you miss you can also figure out what

00:16:06.640 | you really care about at the end of the 30 days then you can decide what if anything you want to add back

00:16:12.800 | into your digital life to add back a tool it must be really valuable like hey this actually satisfies

00:16:18.640 | something that's important to me and two when you add it back you should have clear rules for how

00:16:23.840 | and when you're going to use it so maybe twitter comes back into your life because you realized you

00:16:32.080 | really do need to keep up with baseball trade rumors that are going on this is really important to you that

00:16:38.800 | during the hot stove season you you do really like baseball and it helps you engage to to hear the

00:16:44.240 | baseball reporters sharing rumors on uh player trades let's say this is the situation well now

00:16:49.680 | that you know this is why you're bringing twitter back into your life you could have clear rules on

00:16:52.960 | it all right i check in on these these rumors on uh during lunch break it takes about 20 minutes

00:16:59.440 | i don't follow anyone on twitter i just bookmarked the four baseball reporters who i follow two for my

00:17:07.680 | team and you know maybe like kent rosenthal and and jay papasan or national reporters have good sources

00:17:13.440 | and i look at it on my desktop computer when i'm at work so now i get that value every day i go on and

00:17:19.600 | see what's going on but i also don't have twitter with me on my phone and these are part of a much

00:17:24.080 | larger timeline that i can check at any time it has endless information i put this tool back into my life

00:17:29.920 | for a specific reason with specific rules this is how you reconfigure a digital life that operates on your

00:17:36.000 | terms supports what you value and yet minimizes the uh unnecessary negative side effects so none of this

00:17:45.840 | is about this technology is good or that technology is bad none of this is about uh you need to live

00:17:51.600 | exactly this way versus that way it's about intention but you can't have intention about your digital life

00:17:58.320 | until you build a life that's better than what we just saw when we took this quick tour through the

00:18:03.840 | state of social media in 2024 again what we just encountered here is fine but also sort of weird

00:18:09.600 | and eccentric and idiosyncratic to look at that now and again who cares it's like reading the tabloid

00:18:15.680 | in the supermarket checkout line but if i found you reading the national inquire three to four hours a day

00:18:21.600 | seven days a week i would say okay buddy i think we need a better hobby and that is implicitly what we've

00:18:26.480 | all ended up doing so to fix this relationship with social media and our phones more generally

00:18:33.280 | put in place the alternatives that are much better get yourself to the place where your mind is

00:18:38.640 | increasingly embarrassed by choosing tick tock over all of these other much richer options and then do

00:18:45.440 | your organized declutter if you want to find out more about this my book digital minimalism of course dives

00:18:51.920 | into all these details but hopefully i've given you enough there to get you started did you see jesse in

00:18:57.840 | the super bowl there was an ad for snapchat i did it was it seemed to me like snapchat was trying to argue

00:19:06.080 | uh we're better we don't have some of the same problems as other social media platforms even

00:19:12.640 | though snapchat as any social media research will tell you has been at the core for example of the

00:19:18.160 | teenage mental health crisis and its intersection with social media is very big among teenagers

00:19:22.400 | and snapchat conversations it leads to all sorts of issues i was joking with the person i was with

00:19:27.760 | when we're watching the super bowl i was like this is sort of like having a an anti fentanyl ad

00:19:33.280 | sponsored by crack remember crack this was better in some sense than it was now with fentanyl that

00:19:40.960 | was sort of the sense like with that ad you know like it was hard to get crack so like you know you

00:19:45.760 | you want to do as much of it fentanyl is it's an interesting argument hey we're better than the

00:19:51.600 | other stuff that's causing damage hey if you like this video i think you'll really like this one as well check it out

Cal Newport Tries TikTok Live on the Air. It Doesn’t Go Well.

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