back to indexBuyAHouse_podcast
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Hello everybody, it's Sam and Sydney from the Financial Samurai podcast. 00:00:04.640 |
And in this episode, I want to talk to my wife about what the latest thoughts are regarding 00:00:12.040 |
A couple of months ago, I had an episode that talked about trying to convince my wife, Sydney, 00:00:18.680 |
to upgrade homes, and I was met with a lot, a lot of resistance. 00:00:24.160 |
But two months later, it seems like things have changed a little bit. 00:00:28.380 |
And I wanted to ask you, Sydney, what has changed? 00:00:31.720 |
Why do you think upgrading homes now could be a good idea? 00:00:39.120 |
And the main thing that comes to mind is when we had our initial conversation, I was not 00:00:50.760 |
I had a lot going on with my mom, because I was preparing for a big trip overseas to 00:01:00.620 |
I had a lot of issues preparing for it and dealing with logistics. 00:01:08.180 |
I just couldn't envision doing anything besides getting through that trip and getting back. 00:01:17.180 |
I just mentally, I couldn't comprehend having to think about moving, because moving is a 00:01:24.740 |
I mean, some people are used to it, but for me, I'm not so used to it. 00:01:29.060 |
Okay, so you're back from Japan, and things went well. 00:01:33.500 |
So it's been, what, a month since you've been back? 00:01:40.500 |
I have done a lot of thinking, a lot of talking with you. 00:01:45.820 |
And once I felt calm enough to actually recognize that this was something that you are definitely 00:01:52.020 |
taking very seriously, I sat down and put together a list of pros and cons of staying 00:02:00.180 |
versus moving, and really put a lot of thought into it. 00:02:04.940 |
And I felt like you, after going through everything, that yeah, it could be a wonderful change 00:02:14.900 |
What are some of the pros and some of the cons? 00:02:17.900 |
Let's just talk about three pros and three cons. 00:02:27.820 |
It's quieter, and it's just very peaceful there. 00:02:34.180 |
Second pro would be the layout and the space is different than what we have, and I think 00:02:44.260 |
The third one would be just going on a new adventure, like you were saying. 00:02:55.700 |
Just the fact that we are happy here already. 00:02:59.060 |
We don't feel like we're unhappy, so we are taking a risk of going somewhere new where 00:03:10.380 |
So there's that potential of being in a different type of environment for us. 00:03:16.340 |
Another one would be we don't know the neighbors. 00:03:24.320 |
Sometimes you could end up having a crazy neighbor. 00:03:26.700 |
We've talked to some people in the area, and they seem to be great, so I think it would 00:03:33.740 |
The con of spending time and money to go through a move. 00:03:44.300 |
What's interesting is one of the cons you don't bring about is the cost of actually 00:03:50.820 |
And I wonder, is it because you don't feel the responsibility of generating the income 00:03:58.180 |
Because for me, that is one of the top three cons for sure that kind of weighs on me in 00:04:04.060 |
terms of, man, I've got to spend a lot of money, and then there's more property taxes, 00:04:08.860 |
more maintenance, and that's going to be a heavier or brighter burn in terms of monthly 00:04:16.700 |
We have definitely talked about this, and that was one of my biggest holdbacks initially 00:04:22.560 |
is that the numbers were not something that I felt comfortable with in the beginning. 00:04:28.820 |
And that's why, on top of the stress, I just couldn't imagine it being the right move for 00:04:36.940 |
However, we had a lot of discussion since then. 00:04:39.760 |
We looked carefully at the numbers, and I feel that we arrived at a place together where 00:04:49.060 |
But yes, it's obviously a significant factor in moving houses, and I do think that's the 00:04:57.440 |
main thing that you bear, your responsibility. 00:05:02.520 |
And I obviously am involved with that as well. 00:05:06.600 |
But I feel that I'm in a much more comfortable place about the finances now than before we 00:05:14.680 |
had a lot of discussions about it and really dug into the numbers. 00:05:19.460 |
Just for our listeners, if you're interested, we plan to pay cash for the house. 00:05:24.440 |
We plan to pay cash by selling some stocks and some various bonds, perhaps, some treasury 00:05:31.160 |
bonds for sure, that have expiring maturity dates. 00:05:34.920 |
And so the way I think about it is it's almost like just an asset transfer. 00:05:43.300 |
They're definitely up more than 20% since October 2022. 00:05:47.180 |
And in terms of house prices, the house prices in the segment that we're looking at have 00:05:53.020 |
San Francisco overall, I think from 2022 to 2023, home prices are down about 8.5%, the 00:06:01.980 |
And it started to take back up a little starting in the second quarter of 2023. 00:06:06.960 |
So the way I see it is, OK, we can upgrade homes. 00:06:11.380 |
One of the biggest complaints is there's not a lot of inventory. 00:06:13.780 |
But if you can find that perfect home in a low inventory environment, right now I think 00:06:19.100 |
could be a great time to buy because you've identified that home. 00:06:23.220 |
And there's not a lot of competition because mortgage rates are up. 00:06:28.020 |
And so if you have a lower priced home while your stocks are rebounding, then it's kind 00:06:33.700 |
of like, wow, my stocks have rebounded and I actually buy something that I want. 00:06:41.540 |
So it's not taking on debt at this point in the cycle. 00:06:45.360 |
It's just transferring assets from stocks and treasury bonds to a home that we would 00:06:55.300 |
In terms of one of your main concerns on whether this is the right move or not, you talked 00:07:01.980 |
about just the uncertainty of the move and whether because we're already happy in our 00:07:11.200 |
And at a certain point, I think all of us reach a level of financial stability where 00:07:16.160 |
we're happy being able to provide food, clothing, shelter, transportation, education to our 00:07:23.140 |
And we really don't need much more than the basics. 00:07:26.660 |
And so one of the things that I've struggled with the most is buying a home we just don't 00:07:39.540 |
And so my biggest fear, and I heard you loud and clear back when we started debating about 00:07:44.540 |
whether to buy another home, was us buying another home, leaving a home that we're already 00:07:50.520 |
happy with, and you not being happy in the new home. 00:08:00.460 |
Because then I'll be like, well, I just shot myself in the foot thinking that this would 00:08:03.860 |
provide for a better lifestyle for our family for the next 10 plus years. 00:08:08.420 |
And yet we're not happier or you're actually unhappy. 00:08:13.260 |
So can you share your thoughts on that worry that I have? 00:08:20.900 |
And I think in any kind of huge decision like this, when you're in a partnership, in a marriage, 00:08:26.700 |
you have to both be on board to successfully take the step forward. 00:08:33.340 |
And we have had countless discussions offline together about this. 00:08:40.100 |
We talked it through and I got to a point where I felt that I could emotionally let 00:08:45.900 |
And I think one thing with me is in any kind of big decision, I don't like to yo-yo back 00:08:56.700 |
And I wasn't ready to do that when we had our initial conversation on the podcast. 00:09:02.220 |
So over time with additional conversations and analysis and thinking about it, I got 00:09:11.100 |
to the point where I felt that I was emotionally ready to move forward and let go of our current 00:09:34.060 |
I'm not going to say that there won't be, that just life, there's always going to be 00:09:43.860 |
We're moving forward, united on this decision. 00:09:54.380 |
So if I listen to the podcast regarding our debate, you are no, no, no, no, why move when 00:10:01.860 |
And I was trying to sell you on the other side. 00:10:04.460 |
So now that I've succeeded in selling you on the move, now I actually worry. 00:10:12.380 |
I feel like I could sell you going back to staying in our home. 00:10:16.780 |
I feel like I'm too good of a salesperson to convince you to do something that I am 00:10:21.340 |
almost like bullying you into doing something that you don't really want to do. 00:10:26.780 |
And I think what, you know, we've actually had the opposite, right? 00:10:31.020 |
There were some unexpected things that came up where you were like, "Okay, maybe this 00:10:36.340 |
And I had to explain to you that I am comfortable with it. 00:10:41.820 |
We're going to work through these issues and that this is the right decision for us as 00:10:47.940 |
And as you know, I personally take a longer time to come around to change than you. 00:10:56.980 |
And I needed, this has happened in the last move that we made, right? 00:11:04.140 |
And then I got to the point where I was ready to commit and then we took the steps forward 00:11:10.940 |
And I think the same thing has happened here. 00:11:13.580 |
I wasn't ready, you know, several months ago and then now I am. 00:11:18.980 |
And I just need, I need more time to mentally prepare for change and to think through all 00:11:28.300 |
And you know, I just take longer to process things. 00:11:33.500 |
It's interesting because when I was talking to other guys about this dilemma that we have, 00:11:39.700 |
it was rare for them to say, well, it's rare for a situation where a husband or wife, whatever, 00:11:47.940 |
has identified a nicer home than they currently exist in and getting so much resistance for 00:11:58.140 |
So I think that's rare in the sense that you are, we're creatures of habit, we're comfortable 00:12:02.300 |
and shows that you're comfortable with what you have. 00:12:05.580 |
You're happy with what you have, which is a good sign and you don't need more. 00:12:11.060 |
And that's, that is kind of the conflict internally that I'm trying to think about as we get older 00:12:19.260 |
I think most listeners will get wealthier over time and they'll have an excess amount 00:12:23.840 |
of money than they figure out what to do with so that they don't waste all that energy and 00:12:29.340 |
effort that they initially expended to earn and make that money. 00:12:34.580 |
So in terms of that emotional attachment, you know, I hear you on the emotional attachment, 00:12:38.620 |
which is why I wrote a post called five ways to overcome emotional attachment to buy a 00:12:45.700 |
And one of the ways to overcome that emotional attachment is to tell yourself it's not the 00:12:53.180 |
And so do you believe it's really you're confusing the attachment to the home that we currently 00:12:58.340 |
live in versus really it's your attachment to the three of us, your two children and 00:13:05.780 |
And for me, it's also just, you know, how much stress I can handle. 00:13:11.180 |
At the time, you know, initially I could not mentally take anything else in terms of big 00:13:17.700 |
changes and I just, I was at my mental limit. 00:13:22.220 |
And fortunately I'm in a much better headspace now and we were able to have a lot more discussions 00:13:35.540 |
It's very important that you bring up your mental limit because I think we all have different 00:13:44.640 |
Maybe I have like a super tanker storage facility of mental stress that I can deal with. 00:13:50.620 |
And maybe you have a smaller capacity, right? 00:13:54.780 |
So if we have different mental limits, like we have different strengths, different endurance 00:13:59.460 |
levels, different anything, I think we need to be aware of that because it's not a default 00:14:08.300 |
setting where we all have the same ability to, let's say, rise early or work certain 00:14:15.940 |
And I feel, I'm afraid that one day my mental capacity won't be able to deal with as much 00:14:22.920 |
So the way I envision it is once your mental stress load or capacity is limited, it overflows 00:14:28.900 |
into my bucket and it fills up my bucket, right? 00:14:32.180 |
And so that's my duty as the husband to try to, you know, work harder or try to calm you 00:14:37.280 |
down or make sure everything's okay, you know, take care of the kids, whatever it is, right? 00:14:42.260 |
Just to be there as the backup, like the backup generator. 00:14:46.180 |
And my fear is that as I get older, slower, weaker, less mentally with it, that my mental 00:14:55.300 |
Unfortunately, it's sad, but that's kind of the way things are with life. 00:15:00.720 |
And so if we move and then I have to deal with another set of tenants, if we don't sell 00:15:04.680 |
our existing house, my ability to take in your stress and deal with my own stresses 00:15:12.060 |
And what's also really sad, I think, but also fascinating is that we both don't have day 00:15:24.180 |
But still, I don't have to write, I don't have to record a podcast, I don't have to 00:15:29.020 |
I just have to ensure that our finances are stable, you know, I stay healthy, I pick up 00:15:35.980 |
And now that our daughter's going to school three days a week, we have a lot of capacity. 00:15:43.020 |
It's like Parkinson's law or something where it's the work fills up the time you have to 00:15:48.820 |
It's like it doesn't really matter how much time you have, we're going to fill up that 00:15:57.660 |
And so what are your thoughts on, you know, my fears on reaching my mental capacity limit? 00:16:05.140 |
I think we all, in general, as a society, are under a lot of pressure. 00:16:12.920 |
And I guess we get so absorbed with so many things that we forget to self-care. 00:16:20.440 |
And I think, you know, even just taking, you know, two, three minutes a day or every other 00:16:27.640 |
day to just block everything out and have quiet, I think, is really beneficial. 00:16:33.620 |
There's all these little things that we can do to help decrease our stress, clear our 00:16:38.040 |
heads, you know, and increase that mental capacity when it feels like it's going down. 00:16:44.040 |
Yeah, I always believe that if you feel mentally ill, treat it as a physical illness, take 00:16:50.200 |
24 hours, drink a lot of water, get a lot of sleep, and recharge. 00:16:57.380 |
Because it is really interesting for me once we had kids about the stress that increased 00:17:04.360 |
for me, whereas I thought, "Okay, well, we got kids now, so I got to provide, I got to 00:17:11.040 |
You know, managing money is almost like a full-time job if you want it to be. 00:17:16.660 |
And then to do the childcare and then to write on Financial Samurai and then to record and 00:17:22.480 |
then to write the book, it just keeps on going on and on. 00:17:25.280 |
So it's an interesting situation where it's almost self-inflicted. 00:17:30.480 |
It's not inflicted, it's like it's our decision, right? 00:17:33.800 |
So for folks who want to work and take care of children and all that, just know what you're 00:17:42.500 |
Really carefully plan ahead and think through the steps. 00:17:48.280 |
The more you have, the more stress and the more responsibility you need to take. 00:17:52.680 |
And if both partners' mental capacity and endurance is not equal, the one who has greater 00:17:58.880 |
capacity will have to pick up the "slack," right? 00:18:05.840 |
And so, yeah, think twice, maybe think thrice about upgrading homes, which is where I'm 00:18:13.600 |
In the beginning, two months ago or whenever we talked, I was really gung-ho about it. 00:18:20.320 |
This is a house that I looked at last year for a much higher price. 00:18:26.040 |
It's a great layout, large lot, really rare, and I think we'll be happy there." 00:18:32.240 |
But now I'm thinking, "Okay, is this the right move for us?" 00:18:37.160 |
I think this is kind of the pattern that you've had in the prior purchases that we've done, 00:18:44.960 |
where initially it's very exciting, and then the closer it gets to actually happening, 00:18:53.600 |
So that's when the anxieties start to come out more than initially when it's just thinking 00:19:00.480 |
about how fun and exciting that it's going to be. 00:19:03.940 |
So I think what you're feeling is completely natural. 00:19:08.840 |
It doesn't worry me because I know this is the pattern that you typically follow before 00:19:19.960 |
It's good that you're getting all of your feelings out and you're really thinking it 00:19:24.040 |
through because in any kind of purchase that's this big, you want to really be sure that 00:19:31.520 |
So I think you're just going through all of your thoughts. 00:19:36.200 |
It's always a little bit scary, as you've told me, before it happens. 00:19:46.040 |
Every single home purchase that I've made, it's been very nerve-wracking, very scary. 00:19:52.240 |
I remember getting the phone call, something like June 6, 2020. 00:19:56.160 |
I was at the playground with our son, and I got a call from the realtor saying, "Congratulations. 00:20:02.960 |
The seller loved your real estate love letter, and they've accepted your offer." 00:20:07.680 |
And I remember thinking to myself, "Ooh, great. 00:20:13.480 |
And I hung up and I sat on the seesaw, and I just thought about it. 00:20:25.940 |
And I felt this way with every single purchase since 2003. 00:20:34.160 |
And I would say every single one has worked out well, financially at least, but all of 00:20:42.200 |
I think it's just a little different because of the financial responsibility that I feel 00:20:51.480 |
When we were back in 2012, when I left, I was like, "All right, let's just live a simple 00:20:57.740 |
life in Hawaii on the mango farm, go surfing, eat off the fruit of the land, and then maybe 00:21:05.360 |
we'll make $25,000 a year online and have some passive income, and that'll be great." 00:21:12.640 |
And now life is a little bit more complicated, and I have to be careful not to go overboard 00:21:18.320 |
because I think a lot of us want to spend our wealth, but a lot of us who are used to 00:21:24.200 |
being frugal, investing heavily, and not buying things we don't need have this trepidation. 00:21:32.080 |
And then in the end, we end up with a lot when we're older, and then maybe we will regret 00:21:44.760 |
I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense. 00:21:47.540 |
We typically aren't big spenders, so buying a home feels uncomfortable sometimes because 00:21:55.380 |
of the significance of it to our financial situation. 00:22:11.780 |
And again, it took me a while to come around to it, and then I felt once I made my mind 00:22:24.500 |
And there have been some unexpected things that we've had to consider, but I feel very 00:22:30.900 |
comfortable with it, and I'm fully on board with the decision. 00:22:37.420 |
And let's say we move into the home, and I don't know, goodness forbid our son breaks 00:22:44.900 |
his arm because he's jumping around the property because it's so much bigger or something. 00:22:56.020 |
Okay, because my fear is that one day you'll be like, "Well, you see, if we just stayed 00:23:03.180 |
at our existing place, none of this would have happened." 00:23:09.660 |
Especially in a decision this big, we're not going to move forward if we're not both 100% 00:23:17.420 |
We are making this decision together, and we're not going backwards. 00:23:22.460 |
I am not going to ever ... I would never say something like that. 00:23:34.940 |
For me, I've learned a lot, and I don't know if I've said this already on the podcast, 00:23:40.100 |
or I said it in a post, but the reason why I'm comfortable moving every two to four years 00:23:47.020 |
is because that's exactly what I did when I was growing up as a son of two Foreign Service 00:23:54.660 |
And every single move, I was a little bit sad because I had to leave my friends, but 00:23:58.380 |
I was also happy because I got to meet new friends, go to a new country, new food, new 00:24:07.820 |
I think it was six countries, Malaysia, Taiwan, Philippines, Zambia, America, Japan, and I 00:24:15.540 |
thought it was a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful experience, full of excitement, full of adventure. 00:24:22.180 |
Whereas you, you have had a more stable living arrangement where you were in the same house 00:24:28.180 |
from elementary school up until sophomore year in high school? 00:24:34.220 |
Well, I wasn't living at home during college, but my home stayed the same. 00:24:40.180 |
Yeah, so I think that is partially why you're more hesitant to move, and you probably have 00:24:46.700 |
thought why I'm so unstable in terms of wanting to move so much. 00:24:53.380 |
You probably thought I was crazy for wanting to like, "Wait, you're looking for another 00:25:01.500 |
I think, yes, we did grow up in different environments, different lifestyles. 00:25:08.380 |
However, as I said, we're moving forward with this decision together. 00:25:14.660 |
We're not going to make a decision this big without being on the same page. 00:25:21.540 |
Well, I think this was good therapy for me because I do have a lot of fears, and I think 00:25:27.780 |
listeners can hear the fears and concerns that I have in my head. 00:25:32.260 |
If you're looking to upgrade homes, buy a home you really don't need, have these heart-to-heart 00:25:39.220 |
conversations with your significant other because there will be good and bad things 00:25:44.060 |
that will happen on your move and once you do move, and you want to make sure that you 00:25:49.140 |
guys were on the same page and there was no miscommunication. 00:25:53.740 |
I think in a natural way, my trepidation now is to help protect me in the future of frankly 00:26:13.260 |
I am not the type to complain or say, "I want this. 00:26:20.220 |
It's more my fear of making you stressed and unhappy in those moments because life is full 00:26:28.500 |
If we do move, I hope we can look back on this episode and you know that I had fear 00:26:35.220 |
and I was thinking about you, about your stress levels and the potential for what could go 00:26:40.840 |
wrong because every single time I do something big, when I move forward, I think, "Well, 00:26:49.060 |
of course the positives are going to be greater than the negatives," but then the negatives 00:26:56.420 |
When I miss them, then I feel guilty and I feel bad. 00:27:00.940 |
Hopefully, this conversation will make you realize that I'm doing my best and I have 00:27:08.580 |
this fear and I'm trying to be as thorough as possible before we move forward. 00:27:13.540 |
Just on a practical note, for those who are looking to buy homes, I think, and I could 00:27:19.260 |
be wrong, but now with rates so high, it's a very compelling time. 00:27:25.420 |
The competition is way down and rightly so because it's harder to afford a high mortgage 00:27:33.140 |
It's harder to come up with the funds and so it's less competition. 00:27:38.820 |
We have less competition, you have more bargaining power. 00:27:43.460 |
So anybody who's listing now, well, it could be a time to take advantage because I do fear 00:27:51.260 |
that if mortgage rates come down by 1% to 2% in the future, that frenzy that I have 00:27:56.580 |
experienced over the past 20 years, it ebbs and flows, will come back and if you identify 00:28:01.760 |
that nice home during a frenzy market, chances of you actually winning without overpaying 00:28:23.940 |
Look at my net worth and income rule for buying a home. 00:28:29.380 |
These are really good guidelines to help you make one of the biggest decisions of your 00:28:34.180 |
I hope you enjoyed this little banter and you can use it to talk to your significant 00:28:40.020 |
other about the gravity, the seriousness and the potential joy of buying a new home. 00:28:46.140 |
Thanks so much everyone for listening and if you want to subscribe to the Financial 00:28:50.660 |
Samurai newsletter, we're at financialsamurai.com/news and we'll keep in touch.