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00:01:34.640 | Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks, a show about

00:01:41.840 | upgrading your life, money, and travel.

00:01:44.040 | I'm Chris Hutchins, and I am excited to have none other than

00:01:47.520 | Lee Rowan here for another episode.

00:01:49.600 | Now, for those of you who don't know, Lee was my first guest on the podcast and he

00:01:54.560 | is one of the most knowledgeable people I know when it comes to travel hacking

00:01:58.240 | and really all things travel.

00:02:00.000 | He currently runs a high-end travel company called Savanti, where he's

00:02:04.120 | helped clients plan incredible trips to every corner of the world.

00:02:08.560 | He's also a travel hacker himself, and before Savanti, he

00:02:12.800 | was the COO of The Points Guy.

00:02:14.880 | So why bring Lee back again?

00:02:17.280 | Well, if you listened to episode one, you wouldn't even doubt that decision.

00:02:21.280 | But this time, Lee is going to give us a glimpse into the travel

00:02:24.640 | lifestyles of the rich and famous.

00:02:26.560 | Think private jets, luxury villas, and everything else.

00:02:30.560 | But we're also going to talk about how you could hack some of these luxuries

00:02:35.440 | into your own life for a whole lot less.

00:02:38.200 | This is a really fun episode with some great hacks, so I hope you enjoy it.

00:02:42.960 | Let's jump in.

00:02:44.080 | Lee, thank you for being here again.

00:02:48.040 | First, second time guest.

00:02:50.160 | I am incredibly honored to be here again.

00:02:52.600 | I'm incredibly honored to be back here after you've already

00:02:55.040 | had a million downloads, 50 plus episodes.

00:02:58.160 | You've interviewed Olympians, New York Times bestsellers, and somehow I'm here.

00:03:02.400 | Yeah, just thank you.

00:03:04.040 | First person I have on second, your episode has done the best of all time.

00:03:08.280 | I think in part from Tim Ferriss' comparison to you and Hugh Jackman.

00:03:12.120 | He put you on a pretty high pedestal.

00:03:13.560 | That was incredibly humbling.

00:03:14.600 | My wife is still trying to get me off that pedestal, but

00:03:16.720 | it's great to be up there.

00:03:18.000 | Well, I got an email and it made me think, "I think we should get Lee back here."

00:03:22.760 | So I'm going to read it.

00:03:23.400 | So Alberto sent an email in and said, "Hey, Chris, love your podcast.

00:03:27.880 | And I'd love to hear more about ultra high-end travel experiences.

00:03:31.200 | Even though not every listener can benefit from them, certainly many aspire

00:03:35.720 | to them, and all of them likely enjoy hearing about these possibilities.

00:03:39.640 | So to me, that's what options do people have to fly private?

00:03:43.080 | How does that compare to first class?

00:03:45.040 | What premium programs aren't advertised that airlines and hotels offer?

00:03:48.720 | What kinds of experiences can a great concierge cover, et cetera?"

00:03:51.760 | So I can't think of anyone who knows that space better than you.

00:03:56.080 | Well, you already heard in the intro, but this is what Lee does.

00:03:58.320 | Like he plans these experiences.

00:03:59.840 | So I thought that would be a fun conversation to have and

00:04:03.920 | worth having you back on again.

00:04:05.320 | Awesome.

00:04:05.800 | Well, thank you.

00:04:06.520 | We can definitely dive into the travel lifestyles of the rich and famous, but

00:04:10.120 | I will caveat it by saying a couple of things.

00:04:12.240 | Number one is that not all of these experiences are off limits

00:04:15.680 | to the not rich and famous.

00:04:17.640 | I myself don't think that I can afford necessarily a private jet, but I've

00:04:22.320 | been lucky enough to fly private once or twice or have these incredible concierge

00:04:26.480 | experiences at hotels where if you just know the right angle, then you can really

00:04:30.720 | up your travel game, your travel experiences.

00:04:32.920 | So definitely happy to talk about what people pay for and maybe some other great

00:04:37.160 | area of where you can kind of hack your way in.

00:04:39.280 | Perfect.

00:04:40.200 | The big question out there, something that I've never booked a private jet.

00:04:43.240 | I've had the luxury of being invited to go on a flight

00:04:45.880 | from LA to San Francisco once.

00:04:47.640 | It was quite the nice experience.

00:04:49.120 | What does private jet travel look like?

00:04:51.360 | Is it incredibly expensive?

00:04:53.120 | Just kind of like set the standard for people on what is the

00:04:55.960 | experience and how much does it cost?

00:04:57.600 | If you had asked me this in our first meeting, almost a year ago, where we

00:05:00.840 | recorded the first podcast, I would have said private aviation is booming.

00:05:04.360 | And I would have thought that we were at the very, very peak of the market.

00:05:08.480 | Like the stock market, private aviations market has gone even higher since then.

00:05:12.760 | So right now, private is very expensive and it's exclusive, right?

00:05:17.360 | You have your own jet to yourself, unless you're lucky enough to be invited on

00:05:21.040 | somebody else's jet for a short hop somewhere, but because of that, and

00:05:24.040 | because of gas prices and just the demand on the market, it is incredibly expensive.

00:05:28.000 | But the question is, how do you go about finding a, a jet, be a deal on a jet?

00:05:33.160 | And there are ways of doing that.

00:05:35.280 | So there are search engines that are out there for jets.

00:05:38.720 | Some people turn to brokers.

00:05:40.200 | Some people in the travel industry have their own operator relationships where

00:05:43.960 | you can call up an operator and say, Hey, I'd like to charter a light jet or a

00:05:48.240 | midsize jet or a heavy jet, or one of those big business jets, because I've

00:05:52.760 | got to take X amount of people from San Francisco to New York, right?

00:05:56.800 | And then they get back to these quotes that are exceptional.

00:05:59.480 | It used to be, you could take a super midsize jet nonstop across the country

00:06:03.520 | and it would be something like 25 or 30 grand one way.

00:06:06.080 | And super midsize, how many people?

00:06:07.800 | Yeah, about nine people, give or take, right?

00:06:10.080 | Depends on the jet and the configuration of the seating.

00:06:12.120 | Is there a lavatory seat, which is literally like somebody has to actually

00:06:15.440 | sit on top of a closed lavatory for takeoff and landing.

00:06:18.680 | What does that look like?

00:06:19.640 | But generally nine people on a super mid coast to coast.

00:06:22.600 | It used to be about 25 or 30 grand one way.

00:06:24.560 | And now you're seeing that push up by 40, 45, sometimes 50 grand just

00:06:29.240 | to get coast to coast on a private jet.

00:06:30.920 | So when I talked earlier about how the market is impacted and the prices have

00:06:35.120 | gone up, it's true, they've gone through the roof, but the dirty secret about

00:06:38.880 | private aviation is that not every flight is lined up with a buyer.

00:06:43.440 | For instance, let's say they're taking a jet from the Bay area to the New York

00:06:48.080 | area, and now they've got to get that jet from New York down to

00:06:50.680 | Florida for the next client.

00:06:52.040 | Well, it's going to fly empty.

00:06:53.600 | And so the way to fly private for cheap, not for free, but for cheap to hack

00:06:58.600 | it is to find an empty leg that works for you.

00:07:01.320 | Now operators of those private empty legs are savvy.

00:07:05.440 | And so they're not going to let it go for free or even really for that cheap.

00:07:08.920 | But instead of spending what would be 25, $30,000 on a one way flight,

00:07:13.480 | you might get it for five, seven, eight, 10.

00:07:16.120 | And if you think about it, the cost of a commercial first-class seat might

00:07:21.160 | be a thousand or more dollars on that route.

00:07:23.920 | So now if you have an empty leg that you can buy and you can fill it with eight

00:07:28.520 | or nine people paying a thousand bucks each, why you just paid for your empty leg.

00:07:32.640 | So if you get very lucky, you know how to play the market, find the right sort of

00:07:37.720 | buys, and you can see those empty legs and fill them with people that you might

00:07:42.240 | know, then you can end up flying private for pretty cheap.

00:07:44.600 | Where does that end up happening on the busiest routes you'd suspect, right?

00:07:48.600 | I got to get a jet from the Bay area down to LA so it can fly.

00:07:51.800 | It's going to go empty.

00:07:53.160 | Let me try to fill it up.

00:07:54.400 | It's always last minute, 72 hours or less out.

00:07:57.760 | And sometimes you can get lucky and get a deal.

00:07:59.560 | And is there a place online to look for these deals?

00:08:02.800 | Oh boy, there's a bunch.

00:08:04.800 | And we'll put some resources online later to show people where to look.

00:08:08.520 | It's definitely a rabbit hole.

00:08:09.920 | You got to go down and educate yourself on, but there are

00:08:12.720 | some empty leg listings online.

00:08:14.640 | There are some operators that publish them online on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

00:08:19.080 | There are some of these membership groups that you can be a part of and you

00:08:22.440 | can pay to get access to empty legs.

00:08:24.840 | They're just marketing a collection of lists that they've culled together.

00:08:28.320 | But generally speaking, if you invest time and energy into learning a lot

00:08:32.240 | about how the market works and where to find these lists, you might be able

00:08:35.600 | to find yourself one or two deals a year that you could work on.

00:08:38.080 | But at the end of the day, the deals we're talking about are flying

00:08:43.120 | private at the cost of commercial first class, if you can fill the plane.

00:08:48.760 | If you can fill the plane.

00:08:49.600 | It's all conditional.

00:08:50.440 | It's never going to be, I want to go to LA.

00:08:53.320 | Can I get a empty leg for 200 bucks?

00:08:55.720 | Or can I get a seat on a G450 that has to reposition?

00:08:59.080 | That just won't happen, right?

00:09:00.520 | So I think that's a really good example here, Chris, that

00:09:03.360 | you have to expectation set, right?

00:09:05.240 | You're not going to just fly private by using your points from your Chase Sapphire

00:09:09.440 | preferred and looking on a search engine online and it happens, right?

00:09:13.120 | It's a very calculated process that you have to get very lucky with a

00:09:16.560 | lot of stars lining to have happen.

00:09:18.520 | And if you can do it great, it's an incredible experience.

00:09:21.360 | Is it the best?

00:09:22.400 | And I'll be all of flying.

00:09:24.040 | No, but it's pretty great if you can do it.

00:09:27.200 | And just to kind of benchmark where you gave a couple examples, is there

00:09:31.160 | something that's like roughly for the most common type of plane dollars per hour.

00:09:36.000 | So if someone listening is just thinking like, Hmm, what would it cost to fly

00:09:38.920 | to Cabo for the weekend or somewhere?

00:09:41.680 | Is there a benchmark?

00:09:43.040 | There used to be, and it used to be based on plane size.

00:09:46.240 | You can get an approximate hourly rate, but there are so many variables to

00:09:50.200 | consider that it's so hard to say this is the ballpark cost, especially given a

00:09:55.920 | aviation fuel prices lately and be the impacting of the market of how much

00:10:00.520 | demand there is for private.

00:10:01.800 | It's just insane.

00:10:02.920 | So I wish I could say to you, Oh, heavy jet should be 10 grand an hour.

00:10:06.480 | Uh, that would be great.

00:10:07.960 | Sometimes you can get a heavy jet for eight grand an hour, and sometimes

00:10:11.400 | more often than not, it's 16 grand an hour.

00:10:13.320 | So you just really can't ballpark it.

00:10:15.240 | Well, I mean, you just did eight to $16,000 an hour.

00:10:19.800 | Heavy jet seats up to 14 to 15, depending on the jet and depending

00:10:24.440 | on where you're going, right?

00:10:25.480 | Because you can't fly 14 people from LA to Europe nonstop, but you

00:10:29.760 | could maybe if you did it with eight.

00:10:31.800 | Okay.

00:10:32.480 | The kinds of experiences that you see people having people that are taking

00:10:36.840 | their family of four people on a private jet, it's probably a smaller plane.

00:10:40.720 | Is that closer?

00:10:42.080 | I know you can't ballpark, but like $5,000 an hour, how wide is the swing?

00:10:46.640 | That's the benchmark I've always been told is like, if you want a small

00:10:49.640 | plane, but it's not a prop plane, it's a jet, it's like 5,000 an hour.

00:10:54.040 | So New York, 30 grand.

00:10:56.200 | Now I know you said, ah, things have gone up.

00:10:58.200 | Maybe it's 15, 20, maybe it's six grand an hour or something like that.

00:11:01.520 | But is that in the ballpark?

00:11:02.920 | It could be in the ballpark.

00:11:03.960 | And it, again, depends on the jet itself, where you're going to and from.

00:11:07.800 | Honestly, you know, flying West to East is a lot easier because you've got

00:11:11.560 | tailwinds and a jet can go a little further, but flying East to West and

00:11:15.280 | with a heavier load and a full load of people in the plane, it ends up

00:11:19.200 | being a lot more expensive, a lot longer time in that plane.

00:11:21.840 | The other piece to keep in mind too, is what is that plane doing while you're there?

00:11:25.600 | Are you going a one-way or are you doing a round trip, right?

00:11:27.760 | If a plane is sitting and waiting for you, you're paying that operator to

00:11:31.080 | literally just have it sit there empty, underutilized, doing nothing.

00:11:34.560 | If that plane is moving around and then popping back to pick you up later on,

00:11:38.400 | well, then maybe the operator can make some money on those other legs.

00:11:41.160 | But if they're based out in California and you're flying them to New York, you

00:11:45.080 | better hope that they can get some business along the East coast by the

00:11:47.520 | time that they've got a return, otherwise you're just paying for that dead time.

00:11:50.720 | When you cross borders, it's a whole different ball of wax.

00:11:53.920 | There's this thing called cavitage that I love to talk about because it's so

00:11:56.800 | confusing and it's like an 1860s maritime law, but it basically says

00:12:00.760 | anytime you cross a border on one type of vessel, you have to cross that same

00:12:03.600 | border on the same type of vessel coming back and it's very confusing, but long

00:12:08.200 | story short, you can't fly down on one kind of private jet and come back on a

00:12:11.680 | different kind of private jet into and out of Mexico or Canada because the

00:12:15.400 | operator either won't take your business or the authorities there might get upset

00:12:19.720 | with you and charge you fines and a whole bunch of other stuff.

00:12:22.360 | So is a lot of private travel done domestically and internationally?

00:12:28.360 | It just is too far distance.

00:12:29.800 | So it ends up being too expensive.

00:12:30.960 | Are these rules or what's the most common use case for private travel?

00:12:34.880 | It honestly depends on the consumer.

00:12:36.400 | It depends on what that client needs and what they're trying to accomplish, right?

00:12:39.880 | Some people have a very tight schedule and private allows them that freedom of

00:12:44.320 | having the time to do what they need to do in the order they want to do it.

00:12:48.160 | For some people, it's about convenience.

00:12:49.960 | They just want to show up at an FBO.

00:12:52.040 | Don't have to worry about security.

00:12:53.400 | Somebody else handles their bags and voila, they're off to the next place.

00:12:56.800 | And it's just done like that for them.

00:12:58.600 | For some people, it is about true luxury and they just don't want to

00:13:01.200 | have anything less than perfection.

00:13:03.320 | And that's what private affords them.

00:13:04.440 | There's no worrying about a commercial aircraft delay or a crew delay or whatever.

00:13:09.200 | You're in control.

00:13:10.360 | You say, I want to go 15 minutes later, an hour later, the plane waits for you.

00:13:14.080 | It's not like you miss your Delta flight.

00:13:16.640 | Cause you're like, I'll be there a little later, right?

00:13:18.400 | That would never happen.

00:13:19.120 | So it really depends on who the person is and what their

00:13:22.440 | motivating factor of flying is.

00:13:24.120 | But I can tell you that over the past six years of running this business, I have seen

00:13:28.600 | more private demand over the last 18 months than I would have ever imagined.

00:13:33.840 | And I would probably just even say we've done more private aviation travel in the

00:13:38.280 | last 18 months than we did in the entire first five years of our business's existence.

00:13:42.560 | And do you think that keeps up or do you think part of that, I assume, is because

00:13:46.120 | we had this pandemic where people didn't want to be around other people on an

00:13:48.960 | airplane, but maybe still wanted to travel.

00:13:51.320 | Has it waned a little bit in the last few months as travels picked up and resumed?

00:13:56.400 | Not really.

00:13:57.280 | I think what's been interesting is some of the trends in private aviation have

00:14:00.920 | shifted to people who they used to maybe not fly private all the time.

00:14:04.920 | And now they're only flying private and it's a easily accessible commercial

00:14:10.200 | route with a private-like experience.

00:14:12.480 | I.e.

00:14:12.880 | I can fly from San Francisco to JFK in a live flat seat in a cabin of 12 people.

00:14:17.320 | Right.

00:14:17.640 | Even though there's other cabins on that aircraft that have more people in them.

00:14:21.600 | My first class cocoon feels like a private jet to me.

00:14:25.200 | And then they'll do that over flying transcontinentally private.

00:14:27.960 | Obviously people aren't electing to as much flight internationally, right?

00:14:32.920 | It's trans-oceanically in private jets, because that is so very expensive.

00:14:36.760 | Flying from the East coast to Europe could easily run you 80 to a hundred

00:14:40.640 | grand one way, which is a lot of money.

00:14:42.840 | And when you can get a very lovely first class experience on Lufthansa or Air

00:14:47.920 | France or Swiss for a 10th of that, it's a pretty easy mathematical equation there.

00:14:52.960 | When we went to Bora Bora a couple of weeks ago, we landed on the tarmac in

00:14:57.080 | Bora Bora, tiny airport, like really small airport.

00:14:59.840 | And we saw, I can't remember what it was.

00:15:02.880 | I'm going to misquote it.

00:15:03.840 | I think it was a Boeing business jet.

00:15:05.320 | And I was like, wow, this person flew private.

00:15:07.360 | Now the cool thing, if anyone ever sees a private jet, you could look at the tail

00:15:10.960 | number.

00:15:11.240 | You could type it online and see where did this person come from?

00:15:13.360 | Yeah.

00:15:13.760 | And I couldn't believe it.

00:15:15.000 | So the person came from San Francisco and because the Bora Bora airport has no

00:15:20.080 | immigration, they also had to fly San Francisco to Papiete.

00:15:23.320 | They had to get off the plane.

00:15:24.720 | You could see that the plane sat there for an hour.

00:15:27.360 | They must've gone through immigration, done their COVID testing, gotten back on,

00:15:31.000 | flew that plane, the 30 minute route.

00:15:33.960 | And all I could think about was they saved some time, right?

00:15:37.040 | We got to San Francisco an hour before our flight, hour 20 before our flight.

00:15:41.480 | They might've gotten to San Francisco 30 minutes before their flight.

00:15:44.480 | Right.

00:15:44.880 | But in the grand scheme of things, it still took them almost 10 hours and maybe

00:15:49.600 | they saved an hour, but I'm guessing people listening know that I did it on

00:15:53.600 | points, but I'm guessing that was not a $3,000 charter.

00:15:58.320 | No, sir.

00:15:59.000 | No, no.

00:15:59.840 | That was a very substantial amount of money.

00:16:01.680 | Those people spent for what I'm sure was an incredible trip for a private group.

00:16:05.040 | Right?

00:16:05.520 | You don't think of somebody taking a BBJ for three people, right?

00:16:10.400 | It probably was a group of a dozen or 15 people on that plane, flying that route,

00:16:14.560 | having a great time together.

00:16:15.560 | And that is great.

00:16:16.520 | If that can work out with their schedule and their economics, good for them.

00:16:20.600 | But you and I are going to fly United.

00:16:22.560 | Yeah.

00:16:23.280 | And when you can fly United and find availability and last minute, especially,

00:16:27.240 | yeah, we booked it with Air Canada miles.

00:16:29.240 | Cause it was less, we got, what I would argue is a very similar experience.

00:16:33.040 | We had a lay flat bed, someone brought us food.

00:16:35.640 | It wasn't exactly the same.

00:16:37.280 | The plane left when the plane wanted to leave, didn't leave when we wanted to.

00:16:40.560 | But for us, it was a points in $30 versus what I'm guessing was over six figures,

00:16:46.000 | which well, well over six figures.

00:16:47.880 | Yeah.

00:16:48.320 | Good for them.

00:16:48.840 | What's the experience like though?

00:16:49.960 | You've gotten to do it a few times.

00:16:51.360 | Food, service, are there flight attendants?

00:16:54.040 | So paint a picture for what it's like from the moment you pull up, what happens?

00:16:57.840 | What's that experience like?

00:16:59.000 | Yeah.

00:16:59.400 | So let's start from the very, very top, right?

00:17:01.240 | You get a special address at a commercial airport that you're flying out of.

00:17:05.160 | That is not the regular passenger terminal.

00:17:07.720 | And that's called the FBO.

00:17:08.600 | That's the area where all of the private planes fly out of.

00:17:11.840 | It's usually on the opposite side of the airport from the passenger terminals.

00:17:14.960 | So you pull up there and you literally walk into a building or sometimes they'll

00:17:19.320 | even drive you out directly onto the tarmac to meet your plane.

00:17:21.840 | You drop your bags.

00:17:22.720 | And from the moment you do that, someone else takes care of everything.

00:17:25.840 | So the pilots will walk you through walking a visual inspection on the plane.

00:17:29.960 | If you want to see it and take a look at what little parts of the plane do and

00:17:33.080 | educate you, you get on the plane and you can choose whatever seat you want.

00:17:36.520 | Cause it's your plane.

00:17:37.400 | So there's no assigned seating per se.

00:17:39.200 | You asked about catering.

00:17:40.200 | You can pre-select what is sort of a standard stock of catering.

00:17:44.200 | And that varies by operator, but generally speaking, there's waters and snacks and

00:17:48.400 | some bottles of wine, little bottles of booze and things like that.

00:17:52.120 | But you can also augment that by bringing your own catering or working with the

00:17:55.400 | operator to have them cater the vessel for you.

00:17:58.640 | Thing to note about catering is that if you think getting a private jet is

00:18:02.800 | expensive, you have not seen a $65 club sandwich yet because it's unreal what

00:18:08.600 | those catering bills are.

00:18:09.600 | We'll see catering bills sometimes in the multiple thousands for not that fancy of

00:18:14.200 | a meal.

00:18:14.520 | Wow.

00:18:15.280 | Yeah, it's pretty exceptional.

00:18:16.720 | So I always love just recommending people to bring Uber Eats or bring food from

00:18:20.480 | home that you love.

00:18:21.200 | Though I guess if you're spending a hundred thousand dollars on a flight,

00:18:24.880 | it's a rounding error, but even I guess people that fly private want a little

00:18:28.800 | hack to save money on food.

00:18:30.040 | I always recommend that there are flight attendants on some of these flights,

00:18:33.560 | especially on the heavy jets and ultra long range jets, generally speaking, you

00:18:38.480 | know, not something that I see on a lot of like midsize or smaller jets because

00:18:42.360 | there's really no need, especially because those jets have a unlimited mission

00:18:45.880 | size.

00:18:46.200 | They're going on a four or five hour trip.

00:18:48.000 | Maybe at most you don't really need service during that time.

00:18:52.080 | One of the things I find so interesting about flying private is that generally

00:18:55.280 | the cockpit doors open at any kind of point in the flight.

00:18:58.040 | You can stroll on in and be like, how are we doing folks?

00:19:00.920 | Sit down at a jump seat and kind of take a look at the instrumentation and see how

00:19:04.840 | the plane is flown.

00:19:05.680 | And that to me is the, it's probably one of the coolest parts of flying private is

00:19:08.920 | that you're with the crew.

00:19:10.840 | They get to know you.

00:19:11.840 | You get to know them.

00:19:12.640 | I've had crew write thank you notes to passengers of mine because they've

00:19:16.320 | developed friendships on these short flights.

00:19:18.520 | And that's really lovely because you get to feel like you're part of the

00:19:21.840 | operation if you choose to do so.

00:19:23.560 | If you want privacy and you want to be locked back in your cabin, no problem.

00:19:26.920 | You can do that too.

00:19:27.800 | And then when you land, what does that look like?

00:19:31.320 | Like, do you just get off the plane and leave?

00:19:33.000 | Do you go through the airport?

00:19:34.760 | We didn't mention before you board, is there security?

00:19:37.680 | What is the kind of ins and outs of getting on the plane?

00:19:39.880 | Yeah, generally there's no security, but depending on the flight and where

00:19:42.840 | you're going, if it's transborder, there'll be a little bit of a document

00:19:45.880 | check and the passengers will have to make sure that the manifest matches what

00:19:49.080 | their IDs are.

00:19:50.000 | And the pilots will usually do that, but generally there's no security

00:19:54.200 | of anything to speak of.

00:19:55.160 | When you land, this is kind of the best part is you just stroll off the plane.

00:19:59.280 | I happened to get very lucky and get an empty leg to go to Bozeman, Montana,

00:20:03.520 | and I brought my daughter along with me.

00:20:05.000 | And when we got off the plane, our rental car was right there, plain side.

00:20:08.640 | And what I mean right there, plain side, I mean like maybe three

00:20:11.280 | feet from the stairs.

00:20:12.480 | We just strolled in through our backpacks in the trunk and drove away.

00:20:16.040 | It was the coolest experience to be driving on the tarmac next to your plane

00:20:19.760 | is just like unreal.

00:20:21.240 | So convenience, ease.

00:20:23.960 | Sure.

00:20:24.280 | It makes total sense.

00:20:25.160 | Price.

00:20:25.880 | I mean, it makes sense for everybody.

00:20:27.360 | I wouldn't even know if I can call this a hack, but there's an airline, you

00:20:30.680 | know, they don't fly all over the country called JSX.

00:20:33.280 | The best.

00:20:34.760 | And for maybe like two X, the cost of economy is not even as expensive as

00:20:41.760 | first-class domestically.

00:20:43.480 | You can fly JSX.

00:20:45.000 | They fly, you would know better than me.

00:20:46.760 | What types of planes?

00:20:47.720 | Yeah, they're ERJs.

00:20:48.680 | They're a little regional, regional jets made by Embraer.

00:20:50.840 | They're 30 seats.

00:20:51.960 | So the window seat, A by itself.

00:20:54.560 | And then there's B and C sitting together, 10 rows.

00:20:57.640 | And they're exceptional for the value, for the fact that you do pull up to an

00:21:01.200 | FBO again, across the airport at Oakland or Las Vegas or Burbank or wherever

00:21:05.480 | you're flying, you're not at the regular passenger terminal and you go through a

00:21:09.480 | light security check there.

00:21:10.760 | They check your ID.

00:21:11.600 | They sort of wand your bag and make sure that there's nothing funky there.

00:21:14.840 | And then that's it.

00:21:15.960 | You fly on this plane, you land, and it's the same process.

00:21:18.840 | When you get to Las Vegas, you walk right through the terminal and you're right

00:21:22.520 | outside and there's a taxi cab waiting for you.

00:21:24.840 | And by terminal, Lee means like literally a small building.

00:21:28.360 | Like an office.

00:21:29.240 | Like I would say out the door to the Uber or Lyft you call is measured maybe in

00:21:36.080 | seconds or maybe one or two minutes.

00:21:37.880 | Maybe 30 seconds.

00:21:38.680 | If you stop to pee, it's a minute.

00:21:39.720 | It's really not that, yeah.

00:21:40.720 | So that is an exceptional experience.

00:21:43.280 | And for the dollar value of that, it's great.

00:21:45.880 | You don't have to worry about being in a crowded terminal, getting there an hour

00:21:48.960 | and a half early, all that nonsense.

00:21:50.600 | So I'd say you don't get the plane to yourself.

00:21:52.680 | The plane leaves when it wants to leave.

00:21:54.440 | It's still on a schedule.

00:21:55.520 | But if you want to experience what it's like to go to the FBO terminal to get on,

00:22:00.720 | to walk off the plane, and you just want to do that for, I'd say probably 2x the

00:22:05.120 | cost of a normal economy flight, you know, you could do that with JSX.

00:22:08.080 | It seems like with every business you get to a certain size and the cracks start to

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00:25:14.720 | So when people who would otherwise fly private are flying commercially, I know

00:25:20.280 | there's actually some experiences you can have at the airport, changing planes when

00:25:24.520 | you land, that maybe we've casually seen as normal travelers, someone holding a

00:25:30.160 | sign or something at the airport.

00:25:31.400 | What are those experiences like?

00:25:33.360 | Talk a little bit about first-class terminals and greeters.

00:25:36.040 | Yeah, there's two levels of this experience.

00:25:38.760 | One is sort of accessible to all, and the other is less accessible to all.

00:25:44.960 | So the greeters, those people who are holding the placards when you land and who

00:25:49.080 | are not associated maybe with a wheelchair, right, are there waiting for a VIP.

00:25:52.960 | They're people who are greeting you at the jet bridge of your aircraft when you

00:25:57.280 | arrive, and they're going to be the ones bringing you through all the formalities

00:26:01.000 | that follow.

00:26:01.640 | So let's say you fly from Dallas to Paris and you land in Paris, and there is

00:26:06.840 | somebody standing at the gate with a sign saying Hutchins, you and Amy get off and

00:26:11.080 | you go with that person, and they then take you through the following steps.

00:26:14.880 | They'll take you through customs and immigration through a fast line, whether

00:26:18.200 | that's a diplomatic line or a not crowded line or whatever it is, it's a line where

00:26:22.120 | you don't have to wait in line, which is great.

00:26:24.400 | They'll then help you expedite and grab your bags, and then they'll bring you

00:26:27.520 | onwards to the next experience that's waiting for you.

00:26:30.000 | If that's a connecting flight, they'll help you recheck, go through security

00:26:33.120 | again, get on that flight.

00:26:34.680 | If it's a ground transfer, they'll know exactly where your ground transfer is,

00:26:37.680 | and they'll walk you out to that, making sure of course to stop you at a bathroom

00:26:40.880 | or an ATM or a croissant stand or whatever it is you might need.

00:26:43.600 | And that service is actually surprisingly affordable, and in my opinion, one of the

00:26:49.080 | most underutilized and highly valuable options that a family can use when going

00:26:55.000 | to Europe, especially in the summer, it could be $300 for a family of four to

00:27:00.320 | have a VIP arrival experience, highly recommended.

00:27:03.600 | At certain airports, you can also do that on the departure side, not usually in the

00:27:06.760 | States, but you could, but especially overseas and in a crowded place like Rome

00:27:11.880 | in the summer, highly recommend that as well.

00:27:14.520 | I know in the US, for example, if you fly to SFO and you happen to be United's

00:27:19.640 | invite-only status, global services, there's actually a separate room and you

00:27:23.360 | just go in this room and they check you in, they take your bags, and then they

00:27:26.800 | actually just like put you at the front of the security line.

00:27:29.000 | Right.

00:27:29.400 | Is that something that you can, instead of having to spend tens of thousands of

00:27:33.680 | dollars on United, you could just pay for and kind of have a similar experience?

00:27:37.520 | Domestically, it's a little harder because of our democratic notions here in the

00:27:41.680 | States that it's hard to buy sort of elite access to things.

00:27:44.760 | There are ways of doing it in some airports, but generally speaking,

00:27:48.240 | domestically, especially on arrival, but even on departure, it's very hard to get

00:27:53.040 | to the front of the line.

00:27:53.840 | Overseas, it's a whole different ball of wax.

00:27:56.080 | So you want to spend a certain amount of money in any foreign airport.

00:28:01.240 | There's a greeter service for arrivals and departures that will allow you to

00:28:04.240 | basically cut the line, get to the best lounge, and then have somebody walk you

00:28:07.640 | from that lounge to the plane when you want.

00:28:10.000 | Are you going to board first?

00:28:11.000 | Are you going to board last?

00:28:11.800 | This is always a choice they give you, right?

00:28:13.440 | So that greeter and lounge experience is generally available for purchase

00:28:17.440 | everywhere.

00:28:17.920 | Now you mentioned also earlier lounges.

00:28:20.160 | What are those exceptional lounge experiences that people can have access

00:28:23.240 | to here in the States?

00:28:24.640 | We've got one out of LAX called PS the private suite, which is pretty

00:28:28.600 | exceptional.

00:28:29.160 | It's on the opposite side of the airport from the passenger terminal.

00:28:32.520 | It's on the South side and it is a two part place.

00:28:35.880 | One is a salon where it's open to a smaller group of the public.

00:28:40.040 | And the other is a private suite, which is just open to you.

00:28:42.680 | Prices are pretty steep.

00:28:44.720 | They start in the five hundreds and go to five thousands per use per person.

00:28:49.360 | So it can get a little crazy, but the experience is unparalleled.

00:28:53.520 | You check in there, you do security there.

00:28:56.000 | They drive you to the foot of your plane, to the gate, to get you boarding,

00:29:00.520 | whether it's again, first or last on your plane directly from this suite.

00:29:04.640 | So you don't have to see the airport at all.

00:29:06.480 | You check your bags there, you do customs there.

00:29:08.760 | When you arrive there, like it's seamless and easy and beautiful.

00:29:11.920 | So if you're flying into or out of, or even via LAX, it can make sense

00:29:15.600 | depending on the party and the cost and what you're trying to do.

00:29:18.120 | But mostly in the U S we can rely on our TSA pre, we can rely on clear and

00:29:23.000 | we can kind of make the airport pretty smooth.

00:29:24.880 | Chances are most people listening and have a card with priority pass.

00:29:28.440 | You can go to a lounge internationally.

00:29:31.120 | And I would say sometimes if you're flying internationally in business class

00:29:34.800 | and a lot of the Middle Eastern airlines, they include this.

00:29:38.520 | So we went to Qatar once and it included this greeter experience.

00:29:43.000 | And it was like, let's skip the whole line here.

00:29:45.440 | When you come back, let's skip the whole line.

00:29:47.400 | And I was like, wow, that was fancy.

00:29:49.080 | And then I looked it up and I think it was, I could be really wrong here,

00:29:52.240 | but it was like $80.

00:29:53.920 | It was not like $5,000, definitely worth looking up traveling overseas.

00:29:59.640 | And LAX sounds, I can't come up with an experience where I would want to spend

00:30:03.120 | $500 to get to the airport and have it easier.

00:30:06.480 | But you know, that's for someone.

00:30:07.840 | That is for someone.

00:30:08.720 | And there are some domestic airfare deals where that's actually bundled in.

00:30:12.200 | So you can take a look, you know, United has a deal.

00:30:14.440 | American has a deal with PS at LAX on certain flights.

00:30:18.280 | So if you happen to be transiting LAX in the next couple of months or years, it's

00:30:22.320 | worth taking a look at it to see if it makes sense for you.

00:30:24.040 | All right.

00:30:24.600 | So I think we covered a lot on flights.

00:30:26.800 | I'm going to ask a question that has nothing to do with super high end.

00:30:29.920 | But I was flying back from Bora Bora on United and I think this was the first

00:30:34.760 | time I ever noticed this new cabin.

00:30:36.680 | I think they call it premium plus.

00:30:38.120 | And I feel like for a long time there was premium economy and then it was gone.

00:30:42.840 | And then all the airlines domestically started adding economy plus and comfort

00:30:47.160 | plus, which was basically coach with a little more leg room and maybe some extra

00:30:51.560 | snacks.

00:30:52.120 | Right.

00:30:52.520 | And I saw premium plus and the flight was empty.

00:30:56.160 | There was one person in all, maybe 30 seats, but it looked pretty nice.

00:31:00.480 | Is premium economy coming back and for people trying to really maximize dollars

00:31:06.600 | or miles, is it a pretty viable option?

00:31:09.080 | How does it compare to business or first?

00:31:11.360 | This is a great question.

00:31:12.560 | So premium economy is a thing and it is also a super confusing thing because

00:31:18.160 | airlines have done a terrible job of distinguishing what is an actual premium

00:31:22.280 | economy cabin versus what's a premium economy seat.

00:31:28.240 | For example, on United there is economy plus, which they used to call their

00:31:35.240 | premium economy seat until they actually put in a premium economy cabin premium

00:31:40.800 | plus so confusing.

00:31:42.360 | It just, it doesn't make any sense as a consumer.

00:31:44.000 | When you're looking at it, you're like, where am I sitting?

00:31:45.480 | What am I saying?

00:31:45.880 | What am I paying for?

00:31:46.560 | How do I upgrade into this?

00:31:47.680 | It's just too much.

00:31:49.200 | So I like to think of it this way.

00:31:50.680 | Whenever you're flying internationally, ideally transoceanically, there is going

00:31:55.240 | to be a premium economy cabin, a separate cabin with fancier seats.

00:32:00.080 | They're not lie flat.

00:32:01.320 | It's not a business class, but it might feel like a domestic business

00:32:05.080 | class on a lazy boy kind of seat, right?

00:32:07.800 | You've got a little more recline, a little more leg room on the United flights.

00:32:11.360 | It's usually a two, three, two seating, whereas an economy in the back, it's

00:32:14.760 | three, four, three, or three, three, three, very crowded.

00:32:17.560 | You feel more spacious up there.

00:32:19.520 | There's a better premium version of food.

00:32:21.920 | You earn more miles for those seats, et cetera.

00:32:24.400 | So there is a separate cabin for that.

00:32:26.640 | Again, it's not going to be seen outside of a couple of domestic routes where

00:32:30.080 | they're flying those bigger craft to reposition them.

00:32:32.440 | It's not going to be seen domestically.

00:32:34.080 | Now, confusingly, they will market domestically sometimes their economy

00:32:40.160 | plus seating as premium economy.

00:32:42.520 | Delta is notorious for this.

00:32:44.440 | When you fly from JFK to San Francisco, they will market what they call Delta

00:32:48.560 | comfort, which is their economy plus as a premium economy cabin.

00:32:52.720 | It's not, it's still just an economy seat with a little bit extra legroom.

00:32:55.920 | So we're talking literally about two very separate cabins,

00:32:58.920 | very separate experiences.

00:33:00.000 | As of right now, the airlines haven't really figured out how to optimize

00:33:03.880 | their mileage game when it comes to redemption for those premium plus

00:33:07.680 | the actual cabin premium economy seats.

00:33:10.200 | So what I would always recommend is looking to upgrade into them, book

00:33:13.880 | an economy ticket and see what the mileage upgrade cost would be to

00:33:17.000 | actually upgrade into that premium cabin.

00:33:20.120 | It's often fairly affordable.

00:33:22.320 | United sometimes charges 10 or 20 plus points per leg.

00:33:25.640 | If you have those plus points, whereas other airlines, the

00:33:29.240 | price differential is so high.

00:33:30.520 | It's almost like a mid tier between economy and business class when you pay

00:33:34.240 | for it, but when you actually use mileage to upgrade, it's not that expensive.

00:33:37.480 | Okay.

00:33:38.360 | And one thing we didn't mention for anyone using miles to travel internationally,

00:33:42.480 | a important thing to remember.

00:33:44.440 | If you've never flown business class internationally, then there are

00:33:48.400 | two things that are interesting.

00:33:50.000 | One, the trans-oceanic flight is going to be a next level experience.

00:33:54.280 | I almost say, make sure that you have enough points to do it again.

00:33:57.640 | Cause if you just do it once, you're going to want to do it every time.

00:33:59.880 | The small short routes are awful.

00:34:03.320 | They're terrible.

00:34:04.040 | Yeah.

00:34:04.400 | Intra-European business class is not business class.

00:34:07.520 | When we went to Greece last year, we were like, Oh, we found seats.

00:34:11.600 | It was business class the whole way.

00:34:13.360 | And we were on Air France and from San Francisco to Paris, lie

00:34:17.000 | flat bed, wonderful service.

00:34:18.320 | We get on the flight from Paris to Crete in Greece.

00:34:22.400 | It's basically the first two rows of an economy flight with the exact same

00:34:26.680 | seats and they block off the middle seat.

00:34:28.400 | And I would say if you're trying to move around Europe and you want to feel fancy,

00:34:33.840 | unless you're sure the plane you're on is a real business class plane, I would not

00:34:39.160 | ever use your miles to fly business class, intra-Europe, maybe even intra-Asia.

00:34:44.840 | I'm not sure if it's the same there, but definitely intra-Europe.

00:34:47.720 | Absolutely.

00:34:48.480 | And it's always useful to check whenever you're doing those shorter

00:34:51.800 | hops, what airline is operating the flight?

00:34:54.480 | What aircraft are they actually operating that flight on?

00:34:57.360 | And what do the seat maps look like?

00:34:58.840 | Because if you're flying from Tokyo to Sapporo in Japan, that's hour and a half

00:35:03.160 | flight, they're actually going to put a triple seven with lie flat seats on that

00:35:06.640 | domestic small hop.

00:35:08.200 | And it's a great experience, right?

00:35:09.480 | And you can use lounges and it's wonderful.

00:35:11.040 | In Europe, it's the opposite.

00:35:13.640 | You could fly three hours and it could be in a little crappy 737 and they're giving

00:35:17.600 | you like a hot piece of pizza for lunch.

00:35:19.640 | It's sad.

00:35:20.360 | So make sure you're using your miles and points correctly.

00:35:23.280 | And then Seat Guru, great site.

00:35:25.360 | You can go look at all the seat maps.

00:35:26.840 | They usually say, yeah, this is just a regular seat with the middle seat blocked

00:35:30.000 | off.

00:35:30.320 | So that's flights.

00:35:31.560 | We hit a lot of stuff.

00:35:33.120 | I want to talk about hotels because I feel like there's a lot more mystery here a

00:35:37.640 | little bit.

00:35:38.120 | Everyone knows first class, they walk by it on the plane, but you don't always walk

00:35:41.920 | through the high end resorts.

00:35:43.360 | In my opinion, it's a little harder.

00:35:45.560 | It's not here are the business class flights.

00:35:47.760 | Here are the coach flights.

00:35:48.840 | There's a giant spectrum of resorts and hotels.

00:35:51.720 | And I used to think five star was the top.

00:35:53.920 | And then that hotel in Dubai started saying, no, no, no.

00:35:56.320 | We are a seven star hotel.

00:35:58.160 | What does that even mean?

00:35:58.800 | Yeah.

00:35:59.360 | What is the high end of luxury hotels look like?

00:36:02.400 | And maybe just to start, what sets apart whatever category you call them, whether

00:36:06.760 | you call them five star or just high end, like what sets them apart from all the

00:36:10.240 | other hotels?

00:36:10.960 | Well, there's a couple of things that set them apart, right?

00:36:13.960 | One from the very face of it is price, right?

00:36:17.240 | What can you charge and get away with charging for that room?

00:36:20.120 | And what we've seen very much like we've seen in the private aviation sector is

00:36:23.760 | that on the hotel side, rates have gone through the roof over the last two years.

00:36:27.680 | And especially on the higher end of the five star properties, it's incredible what

00:36:33.240 | some of these properties are charging, which then begs the question, is it worth

00:36:36.120 | it?

00:36:36.320 | So that comes to point number two, which is distinguishing factor of service, right?

00:36:41.560 | Are you getting the service level that five star or that price tag demands?

00:36:46.640 | That is an issue right now.

00:36:48.960 | And I will say globally service for hotels has been troublesome.

00:36:53.320 | We had a client recently in the Middle East at one of those five or seven star

00:36:56.840 | hotels, and we couldn't get ahold of the concierge for almost a day.

00:37:00.400 | That's unacceptable for a global brand where somebody spending thousands of

00:37:06.120 | dollars a night for a room, price, service, location, all distinguish in when you

00:37:11.680 | create this five star atmosphere.

00:37:14.080 | But the fourth thing is what are the amenities that are on the offer at that

00:37:17.440 | hotel that make them truly stand out?

00:37:19.680 | A minute ago, we talked about VIP access at airports.

00:37:22.880 | A lot of the Parisian five-star hotels will actually, as part of the amenities

00:37:27.080 | that you get when you book with them, they'll actually bundle in an arrival

00:37:30.720 | greeter that will pick you up plain side and bring you through customs immigration

00:37:34.480 | to one of their cars waiting for you to whisk you to the hotel.

00:37:37.320 | And it's a seamless experience.

00:37:38.840 | So that's why when we talked on our first chat, we chatted about how important it

00:37:43.400 | is to let the hotel know your travel plans, who you are, what you're coming to

00:37:47.160 | do, what experiences you want to have, your arrival and departure details, right?

00:37:52.000 | Because they're actually going to customize as part of their package that

00:37:55.040 | they're selling you, your arrival and departure with them.

00:37:58.000 | That's incredible.

00:37:59.000 | So a five-star hotel, in my opinion, provides exceptional service at an

00:38:03.400 | attractive price, and I want to say affordable because that's out the window

00:38:07.960 | now, and they do it at a great location where the amenities are so rich and

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00:41:01.240 | So let's get a little bit more tangible.

00:41:04.160 | If we're going to look at two properties anywhere, let's say

00:41:07.040 | resorts in Mexico, four and five star, it might be three or four times

00:41:11.320 | more to stay at the higher end resort.

00:41:13.200 | What does that get you?

00:41:14.320 | That's a great question.

00:41:15.680 | And hopefully the Delta is not three or four times between a four and a five

00:41:19.200 | star, but sometimes it is.

00:41:20.360 | I would say that at a five star, you're looking at a less crowded restaurants

00:41:23.920 | and you're looking at maybe a larger room, a more responsive concierge.

00:41:27.800 | There might be more onsite amenities, more pools, an adult only pool perhaps,

00:41:32.120 | or a family pool or something else that sets them apart amenity wise.

00:41:36.120 | You might be looking at more personalized service.

00:41:38.560 | Do you have a Butler or do you have a team of concierges that are attached to

00:41:42.360 | your type of villa product or your room product?

00:41:45.000 | Now, going back to my comment earlier, unfortunately, service has been an issue.

00:41:48.600 | Four and five star properties globally lately.

00:41:51.480 | So you may stay at a five star and you might be really excited about the

00:41:56.120 | splurge, this bucket list experience.

00:41:57.960 | We've put all of our points into this stay, and you might

00:42:00.080 | be underwhelmed by service.

00:42:01.800 | That's not necessarily a reflection accurately of the star rating right now.

00:42:06.280 | It's a reflection of the global atmosphere for service.

00:42:08.720 | And hopefully we're going to get out of that this year, but it's

00:42:13.120 | been a little interesting out there.

00:42:14.160 | So again, coming back to my initial point, the more you can share with a

00:42:18.560 | hotel ahead of time, especially a five star hotel to allow them to really

00:42:22.240 | customize that experience for you, they'll knock it out of the park

00:42:25.200 | with the data that you give them.

00:42:26.160 | Cool.

00:42:26.920 | I've learned recently.

00:42:27.920 | So when we were going to Bora Bora, I was like, okay, to me, the

00:42:31.560 | Conrad, the St.

00:42:32.600 | Regis, the Four Seasons, those are the kind of high end

00:42:35.560 | resorts, the nicest things.

00:42:37.080 | I've recently learned that there is even a tier above that, that

00:42:41.440 | I didn't know a lot about.

00:42:42.440 | In French Polynesia, the hotel I'd put there, I learned about was the Brando.

00:42:47.000 | It's much more expensive.

00:42:49.280 | I would say it definitely is three or four times the price.

00:42:51.440 | And then I've learned that there's a whole chain of Amman resorts and they

00:42:56.040 | are similarly much, much more expensive.

00:42:58.600 | And so what do you call them?

00:43:00.880 | There has to be some way to differentiate a five star St.

00:43:05.000 | Regis, Ritz Carlton, Conrad from an Amman or the Brando, or I'm sure

00:43:11.120 | there's other examples you have.

00:43:12.480 | Yeah.

00:43:13.000 | It's a great question.

00:43:14.320 | I mean, they're all are still five star, but there are these ultra luxury

00:43:17.720 | resorts that have their own sort of special categorization that are

00:43:21.440 | unique, singular destinations.

00:43:23.400 | The Brando is a great example.

00:43:24.800 | For those who don't know the Brando is its own private Island owned by the

00:43:27.720 | Brando family as in Marlon Brando.

00:43:29.880 | It's right North of Papeete in Tahiti.

00:43:32.040 | And what sets it apart is that it's an eco resort, but it's super luxe.

00:43:36.600 | So, you know, you would go traditionally to a normal five star over the water

00:43:41.240 | bungalow experience, like the St.

00:43:42.640 | Regis and Bora Bora and have that perfect Instagram photo sort of vacation.

00:43:46.880 | The Brando is a little more experiential.

00:43:49.320 | There's no over water bungalows.

00:43:50.840 | It's more villas on a private beach, but very secluded and very customized to you.

00:43:55.800 | So again, back to my point earlier, you bring this super long questionnaire to

00:44:00.600 | the Brando where they ask you all your likes and dislikes, even down to which

00:44:03.440 | alcohol brands do you like, because they want to make sure that in your all

00:44:06.400 | inclusive mini bar, they've stocked that.

00:44:08.040 | I said to them, for instance, I love champagne.

00:44:10.040 | My wife doesn't.

00:44:10.760 | So they put instead of full bottles of champagne, half bottles.

00:44:14.240 | And that was a really nice touch because they knew that my wife wasn't going to be

00:44:17.800 | drinking and I didn't want to get knockered off of one bottle, full bottle of

00:44:21.480 | champagne, that level of attention to detail sets them apart.

00:44:25.360 | The level of amenities they offer sets them apart.

00:44:28.040 | And when you look at a mons or Rosewoods or some of these other ultra high end

00:44:31.960 | luxury properties around the world, there are singular destinations that

00:44:35.680 | are a truly a sense of place.

00:44:37.600 | It's not just an over water experience with a pretty backdrop, but it's the

00:44:41.720 | essence of that property or of that destination that sets that hotel apart.

00:44:46.280 | It's villas built into a cliff side or it's villas built over in an eco

00:44:50.800 | friendly manner over a mangrove reef.

00:44:52.840 | And you're like, wow, this is incredible.

00:44:54.240 | And there's no place in the world I could stay like this.

00:44:56.440 | And it comes with a price tag, of course, and it comes with incredible amenities

00:45:01.400 | that you won't get elsewhere because of what is offered there.

00:45:05.040 | So it's a truly once, I don't know, lifetime for some people, but once

00:45:08.640 | ever experience for most of us.

00:45:10.800 | For me, I've been in an Amman resort, but I have not stayed in an Amman resort.

00:45:16.320 | I also noticed something.

00:45:17.320 | None of these have loyalty programs.

00:45:20.560 | Yeah.

00:45:21.040 | You don't earn points.

00:45:22.240 | You don't redeem with points.

00:45:23.720 | Do people that have a lot of money that stay at really high end

00:45:26.560 | properties, is that not a factor?

00:45:28.240 | Why are there no loyalty programs?

00:45:30.080 | I'm mostly speaking because I wish that there were these experiences.

00:45:33.920 | Yeah.

00:45:34.080 | I mean, they are so aspirational for those of us who aren't necessarily

00:45:36.960 | dropping $5,000 a night on a hotel room.

00:45:38.920 | I would say this, there are loyalty programs there.

00:45:41.240 | You just don't know about them.

00:45:42.040 | The Mandarin Oriental, one of my favorite hotel chains in the entire world.

00:45:46.560 | They only have two dozen properties globally and they're exceptional

00:45:49.480 | in every single location.

00:45:51.320 | They know everything they need to know about you, which is one of the

00:45:54.640 | purposes of a loyalty program.

00:45:55.880 | But yeah, you don't have points on a Mandarin card, but they do know when

00:46:00.160 | you ordered a drink at the Bangkok bar and then you go to London two weeks

00:46:04.440 | later, they're like, Oh, Mr.

00:46:05.680 | Hutchins, would you like that same drink with the Bombay Sapphire?

00:46:08.160 | And that is like skin crawlingly amazing for like the data to work that way, to

00:46:13.760 | make your experience so customized and wonderful.

00:46:16.480 | An example on that, in fact, not to do with loyalty, but to do with data is I

00:46:21.120 | stayed at the Mandarin Oriental in Bangkok.

00:46:22.960 | And at the time I had an 18 month old child, he needed milk in the middle of

00:46:26.760 | the night and he needed to stretch his legs and he was just antsy.

00:46:29.640 | So I took him out of the room.

00:46:31.280 | My butler saw that my door was open and said, Mr.

00:46:33.520 | Rowan, how do we help you?

00:46:34.600 | And I said, we're good.

00:46:36.120 | Thank you so much.

00:46:36.840 | We're just going to go out and stretch our legs and go get some milk.

00:46:39.240 | We're going to leave the property.

00:46:40.640 | It's one 30 in the morning.

00:46:41.520 | They're like, Oh sir, we've got milk here.

00:46:43.000 | And I was like, it's not the milk.

00:46:44.320 | He just needs to like stretch his wings.

00:46:46.680 | So there were 11 people that helped me between my room, the elevator, the

00:46:53.320 | lobby, the front desk, and leaving that room.

00:46:56.320 | And when I came back, they're like, Oh, did you get milk?

00:46:58.520 | Is there anything else you need?

00:46:59.480 | How do we help you?

00:47:00.280 | When I stayed at the Mandarin Oriental in London years later, they said, Oh, we

00:47:05.360 | remember a story about you getting milk, Jeremy.

00:47:08.000 | And I'm like blown away that years later they would connect the dots.

00:47:11.160 | So that builds loyalty in me for sure.

00:47:13.440 | I will talk about that story all the time.

00:47:15.520 | And I will say the Mandarin Oriental knows how to deal with data and knows

00:47:18.120 | how to take care of people and knows how to show what it truly means to be a guest.

00:47:22.320 | Do I earn points every time I stay there?

00:47:23.880 | Yeah, I use the right credit card, but I don't earn a loyalty

00:47:26.640 | program points with them.

00:47:28.120 | And that's the kind of loyalty they're trying to build.

00:47:29.880 | I've had a glimpse of some of that in four seasons.

00:47:34.480 | We were fortunate to stay at the Four Seasons in Bali.

00:47:36.840 | And every morning they remembered, I love jackfruit for anyone

00:47:40.280 | who's never had a jackfruit.

00:47:41.720 | I describe it as if a banana and a pineapple created a fruit child.

00:47:45.880 | Very weird looking fruit child.

00:47:47.040 | A very weird looking fruit child.

00:47:48.400 | And do not mistake for a durian because very different fruit.

00:47:51.760 | And every morning they were like, Oh, do you want some jackfruit?

00:47:55.000 | I know it's not in the regular fruit tray, but even if it was a different

00:47:57.600 | waiter, we knew you had it yesterday morning, you asked for it, but I've

00:48:00.320 | never gotten to that next crazy level.

00:48:02.480 | So here's an interesting, different version of that.

00:48:05.160 | The Four Seasons also has this thing called the glitch report where every

00:48:08.840 | day, if there was an issue, let's say your toilet didn't flush.

00:48:11.640 | Okay.

00:48:12.000 | Everyone in the resort would know that you had an issue and that they are

00:48:16.120 | singularly focused on fixing that problem.

00:48:18.640 | It doesn't mean that the housekeeper is going to be in your like room

00:48:22.440 | the whole day fixing your toilet.

00:48:23.960 | It just means that the pool attendant might be like, Hey, Mr.

00:48:26.560 | Hutchins, is there anything we can get for you?

00:48:28.000 | I'm sorry.

00:48:28.520 | You had a rough night last night.

00:48:29.360 | That's incredible, right?

00:48:31.320 | That builds loyalty in a way that points and miles maybe won't ever.

00:48:34.400 | Because when was the last time that Delta really thank you for

00:48:37.200 | your business, Mr.

00:48:38.040 | Hutchins, they're just reading off a sheet.

00:48:39.520 | They don't know that you just came from Cleveland and you're tired.

00:48:41.600 | You know, they don't know any of that.

00:48:42.600 | So that level of loyalty is something that all hotels should aspire to.

00:48:47.360 | In my opinion.

00:48:47.840 | I look forward to a successful life that affords more of them.

00:48:52.760 | Or for people listening, they might not know that because Lee works in the

00:48:56.840 | industry, I think one of the perks that you're afforded is because you make a

00:49:01.320 | lot of recommendations to clients.

00:49:02.800 | Hotels often give you a good deal.

00:49:04.640 | If anyone listening is wondering how to hack it, the other options

00:49:07.280 | to just work in the industry.

00:49:08.360 | Come join our industry.

00:49:09.320 | We need good people and trust me, we're always hiring.

00:49:12.200 | A lot of people I know love to stay at Airbnbs.

00:49:14.280 | I'm not saying there aren't high-end luxury properties on Airbnb.

00:49:16.920 | There definitely are.

00:49:18.000 | But is there another level of the villa or home rental market that someone like

00:49:25.080 | me or anyone listening just has never heard of?

00:49:27.400 | Yeah, for sure.

00:49:28.200 | So I like to use VRBO and Airbnb as a really good search engine barometer of

00:49:33.920 | where I should be putting people in homes in certain areas, because it tends to

00:49:38.280 | give me some good feedback on a market that I may not know.

00:49:41.080 | The downside is that the quality level stops at that maybe four, four and a

00:49:44.960 | half star tier property and just get stuck there.

00:49:47.960 | And if you've got a client with seven star expectations and the need for

00:49:51.560 | something a little larger, bigger, whatever, then you got to turn elsewhere.

00:49:54.720 | So there are a number of higher end search tools that we can use to source

00:49:59.760 | homes and villas, just like the ones you're mentioning, right?

00:50:02.440 | These super high-end luxury villa properties that have multiple bedrooms,

00:50:07.240 | incredible kitchens, staff, all of that stuff.

00:50:10.280 | Over time, you kind of understand who the players are in each market.

00:50:13.120 | And it really is hyper-regionalized.

00:50:14.840 | There is a Mexico player that has great villas all throughout Mexico, but then

00:50:19.120 | there was one in Punta Mita that I would use specifically when I'm traveling

00:50:22.120 | there and looking for properties there.

00:50:23.720 | What are you expecting out of these places?

00:50:25.440 | Number one, you're going to be signing a contract that signs your life away.

00:50:28.520 | You're going to be wiring money to some bank account somewhere as a deposit, and

00:50:32.560 | then 30 or 60 days out wiring the rest.

00:50:34.880 | There's big, hefty security deposits.

00:50:37.080 | I just saw for the first time ever, a quarter million dollar security deposit

00:50:41.440 | on a villa that we're renting for someone.

00:50:43.760 | And my eyes, I'm sorry, what?

00:50:45.360 | Not 25,000?

00:50:46.680 | So you're looking at big contracts, big security deposits, but they come

00:50:50.120 | with these incredible amenities.

00:50:51.520 | Some of these houses that we've rented for people come with a staff of 30.

00:50:54.720 | You know, you have your own Michelin starred chef that will

00:50:57.320 | cook you whatever you want.

00:50:58.520 | And again, pre-ordering and telling them the details ahead of time.

00:51:01.760 | This person's vegetarian, they only eat fish, undercook the beef for him.

00:51:05.000 | That's super important because they're going to customize

00:51:07.560 | that experience to that stay.

00:51:08.760 | But they're just what you would expect from those TV shows, The

00:51:10.920 | Lifestyle of the Rich and Famous or Cribs.

00:51:12.560 | They're just these over the top homes that have the best view of Aspen, or

00:51:16.680 | you have the most incredible private beach in Malibu, or you've got your own

00:51:21.160 | nine acres of riverfront property in Montana where you can catch your own

00:51:23.840 | fish, just incredible properties like that.

00:51:26.080 | If someone listening is like, I just want to go look at a few pictures.

00:51:28.720 | It doesn't have to be a site that covers everything, but is

00:51:31.520 | there a place that just has a few of these that you can go look at?

00:51:34.480 | Yeah.

00:51:35.000 | One I like the most for domestic properties is called Cuvee, C-U-V-E-E.

00:51:39.000 | They're based out of Colorado.

00:51:40.360 | They've got beautiful properties.

00:51:41.720 | And some of those, including the one in Aspen I mentioned, anybody can book these.

00:51:45.040 | You don't need to have a special in or connection, but they're incredible.

00:51:47.680 | They're vacation homes of a lifetime and they can actually make sense economically.

00:51:52.600 | If you have a big enough group and you're looking for something that's

00:51:55.720 | a bucket list experience, it's not always much more than getting

00:51:59.520 | rooms or suites at a hotel.

00:52:01.160 | Yeah.

00:52:01.440 | There's a house, feel free to Google it.

00:52:03.280 | It's called Villa Turquesa and it's in Cabo.

00:52:06.200 | And we've been there for a handful of bachelor parties and it

00:52:11.200 | actually ended up being reasonable.

00:52:12.880 | Especially my villa hack for this is if you're going with a group of people,

00:52:17.040 | divide the rooms up in a way that lets the friends of yours that have the money

00:52:21.680 | that want a little nicer, get something else.

00:52:23.600 | So this particular house, if you look it up, has four bedrooms with a king bed,

00:52:27.840 | four bedrooms with two queen beds and one room with 12 bunk beds.

00:52:32.280 | And so we priced it such that if you want your own room with your

00:52:37.080 | own bed, you pay a lot more.

00:52:38.840 | And if you want your own bed that you only have to share with one person, you pay more.

00:52:42.800 | And if you're okay being one of the 12 people in the bunk bedroom, you get a great deal.

00:52:47.160 | And you'll have a hell of a party.

00:52:48.000 | It's a fantastic house.

00:52:49.600 | There's a chef named Lorenzo in the house, cooks whatever you want, but it ended up

00:52:54.400 | working out with a group of 20 people to be maybe a thousand dollars per person.

00:53:00.560 | And that included enough money for all the food for maybe five days.

00:53:05.040 | So it's incredible.

00:53:06.520 | It's a great deal.

00:53:07.160 | I want to say that also included all of our transportation.

00:53:10.040 | Whenever I would plan a trip like this, I would try to come up with a dollar

00:53:13.440 | figure that would cover all the shuttles, all the activities.

00:53:16.720 | One day we're going to rent a boat.

00:53:17.960 | One day we're going to do this.

00:53:19.000 | And the hack for me was I would plan a trip for 20 people.

00:53:22.280 | I'd put the entire villa for five nights on my credit card.

00:53:24.880 | I'd book the flights for all 20 people going down.

00:53:27.680 | I would, obviously there's a little risk.

00:53:29.360 | The one person who doesn't pay back.

00:53:30.880 | Fortunately, if you ever book group flights, if you call the airline, you

00:53:34.400 | actually go to the group desk.

00:53:35.800 | They usually give you the wiggle room to drop one or two people in a group before

00:53:39.400 | the, or change the name or do something.

00:53:41.120 | And so that's both how I accumulated a lot of points and found that for the right

00:53:46.520 | group with enough people, it can work really well.

00:53:49.160 | Yeah.

00:53:49.680 | If you want to go to this house and you don't have kids and you're not going to

00:53:52.240 | use the bunk bedroom, then it's going to sleep a whole lot less people.

00:53:55.120 | It might only be eight couples and that might be much less affordable, but it is

00:53:59.320 | possible.

00:54:00.080 | I think it's a really cool experience to stay in a villa with a chef that can cook

00:54:04.600 | meals, especially, you know, in a time where you may be coming out of the

00:54:08.320 | pandemic, not ready to go to a super crowded resort.

00:54:10.560 | Sure.

00:54:11.040 | I'll give you one further hack on that, which is that a place like Villa Torquesa

00:54:14.280 | is probably marketing itself in 25 different directions.

00:54:17.360 | And so what you should do before you get to work with Villa Torquesa is Google it

00:54:21.560 | and figure out where are they marketing and what are the prices on each of these

00:54:25.000 | places and go back to Villa Torquesa directly and say, Hey, listen, I see your

00:54:29.320 | marketing over there for a little cheaper.

00:54:30.760 | Or I see that somebody over here is costing even more money.

00:54:33.320 | If I were to book that with them, I want to book directly with you.

00:54:35.520 | I want to pay the best available price.

00:54:37.120 | What is that?

00:54:38.040 | All of those villa prices are slightly negotiable outside of peak periods.

00:54:42.400 | So be sure to go directly to the ownership, not through an intermediary

00:54:46.000 | villa company, and ask them what are they willing to do if you book direct.

00:54:49.120 | I love that.

00:54:49.880 | And in our first episode on the show, you mentioned if you can't find them, take an

00:54:54.240 | image, do a Google image search of the core image of the property, and you can

00:54:58.760 | usually find the other websites that image appears on.

00:55:01.280 | One last thing we didn't talk about with hotels is the kind of perks you get when

00:55:05.400 | you book them through a travel advisor.

00:55:07.360 | Anyone can book most of these properties.

00:55:09.200 | You want to book a Nauman, you want to book a Four Seasons or a St.

00:55:11.520 | Regis, you can go on the website.

00:55:12.840 | But when you book through someone who has a relationship with these brands and

00:55:16.840 | properties, like you do at tons of these resorts, you end up getting amenities

00:55:21.080 | that I talked about a few weeks back, this kind of hotel experiment that we're

00:55:24.880 | working on with all the hacks, where you might get an upgrade, free breakfast, a

00:55:30.120 | property credit, late checkout, an amenity in your room.

00:55:33.160 | Because I got so many questions about that, I want to talk a little bit about how it

00:55:36.560 | works.

00:55:37.000 | Generally, these hotels, my understanding is they want to extend perks to people

00:55:43.000 | who are related to clients that send lots of traffic, or how does it work?

00:55:47.400 | Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:55:48.480 | There are a couple of ways of getting these outsized perks at hotels.

00:55:51.720 | One of them is having a high tier in loyalty, right?

00:55:54.440 | Having Marriott ambassador status means that Marriott knows who you are when you

00:55:58.320 | stay at a Marriott property.

00:55:59.240 | And anybody at that property could tie into the Marriott database and look up

00:56:02.360 | Chris and say, "Oh, wow, he's fancy pants.

00:56:04.120 | He runs a great podcast.

00:56:05.920 | And he's a nice guy.

00:56:06.680 | Let's take care of him."

00:56:07.360 | But that's where that sort of stops.

00:56:09.480 | And it obviously stops with Marriott.

00:56:11.240 | If you have no Hyatt status, or if you've never stayed at an Amman, they don't know

00:56:15.320 | anything about you.

00:56:15.840 | So the second way that hotels get a lot of their info and therefore assign a lot of

00:56:20.840 | perks is through this travel advisor relationship.

00:56:23.280 | And that relationship is actually probably the strongest sales channel for hotels,

00:56:27.600 | because it develops a quality guest.

00:56:30.280 | It says, "Hey, this is who Chris Hutchins is.

00:56:32.560 | Whether he stays in a Marriott, a Hyatt, an Amman, a Rosewood, or whatever, this is

00:56:36.400 | who he is, and this is what he wants, and this is what his experience should be.

00:56:39.360 | Can you help craft this?"

00:56:41.120 | And a good hotel, a four or five star hotel, will absolutely do that.

00:56:44.840 | And in exchange for that, they'll give perks.

00:56:47.200 | They'll say, "Look, we want Chris to come stay here, spend his money here.

00:56:50.600 | So we are going to give him daily breakfast, and we're going to guarantee an upgrade

00:56:54.120 | for him at booking.

00:56:54.960 | And we're going to make sure that every morning when we run our arrivals report of

00:56:58.360 | who's coming in that day, we flag him as a VIP and say, "Chris needs this."

00:57:03.240 | Or, "Let's give Chris his room assignment.

00:57:05.480 | Let's give it an even better upgrade or a better view just because he came in through

00:57:09.160 | this channel, and we know things about him that we wouldn't know if Chris just booked

00:57:12.400 | online."

00:57:12.760 | So it's rate parity.

00:57:14.680 | They're never going to give you like a crazier rate.

00:57:17.920 | Four seasons doesn't discount, right?

00:57:20.520 | But they are going to give you a better experience by knowing the channel through

00:57:24.160 | which you came.

00:57:24.680 | So you mentioned earlier that right now, this is mostly a channel restricted to

00:57:29.120 | travel advisors, or if you have an Amex Platinum card, or you have some other way

00:57:33.800 | of getting a perk program.

00:57:35.600 | We're trying to democratize that, especially for all the Hacks listeners, a

00:57:38.960 | special way of getting that access, a sort of a self-serve model.

00:57:41.960 | So more on that coming soon.

00:57:43.800 | But the big takeaway from that is that the more a hotel knows about you, the better

00:57:49.480 | the experience will be, and they're willing to give you perks for that.

00:57:52.840 | They're willing to say, "Hey, be part of this program as you book.

00:57:56.640 | Give us some information on how we can make your stay special so that you're going to

00:58:00.200 | spend money here, and you're going to come back here, and you're going to tell all

00:58:02.520 | your friends about what a wonderful experience it was.

00:58:04.800 | Here's some more perks."

00:58:05.600 | So if you're listening, that's a little bit more about the how and the why behind

00:58:09.840 | this kind of hotel perks and benefits experiment I mentioned.

00:58:12.960 | Shoot us an email.

00:58:13.800 | The email I made was getupgraded@allthehacks.com.

00:58:16.960 | And the caveats, just because I've gotten a lot of questions, has to be a paid

00:58:21.200 | booking.

00:58:21.600 | Unfortunately, a lot of these perks don't apply or none of them apply to award

00:58:25.920 | stays, and it has to be booked through our relationship.

00:58:29.200 | So if you haven't booked yet, and you want to get some of these premium perks at

00:58:33.520 | probably almost 4,000 hotels around the world, shoot us an email.

00:58:37.160 | I'll put the link in the show notes.

00:58:38.560 | Just let us know where you're going, rough budget, and when you're going, and we'll

00:58:42.840 | see if we can help get you hooked up.

00:58:44.040 | Last topic I wanted to go on was little tricks and tips when you are there that

00:58:48.760 | don't have to do with booking, don't have to do with flying.

00:58:51.000 | One I want to ask first is around tipping.

00:58:53.840 | What is the practical advice around tipping, not for daily housekeeping, but to

00:59:00.320 | enhance an experience?

00:59:01.880 | I watched Inventing Anna, or Anna, or however you want to pronounce her name,

00:59:05.560 | and she was handing out $100 bills around the hotel, and it just made me think, is

00:59:10.520 | there a benefit to giving a tip to the concierge, or the person checking you in

00:59:15.600 | in Vegas, or the person at the front desk of a restaurant?

00:59:19.200 | When is there not, right?

00:59:21.640 | If you have the means to do it, then absolutely, I would do it.

00:59:24.280 | And I wouldn't always limit it to just money.

00:59:26.120 | So let's use a concierge, and let's just say Paris, for example.

00:59:29.560 | There are a couple of different ways of taking care of that concierge.

00:59:32.120 | Number one, if you have developed via email a relationship with a particular

00:59:35.760 | concierge, before you arrive, one of the things you can do is write a note to the

00:59:40.160 | general manager and say, "Hey, Laurent has been amazing.

00:59:43.200 | I just want you to know I'm so looking forward to my trip because Laurent has

00:59:45.840 | already dialed in all these experiences for me.

00:59:47.720 | Thank you for employing somebody like Laurent."

00:59:49.680 | And that non-monetary bit of time that you just spent taking care of Laurent will go

00:59:55.600 | so far in making your experience even better before you get there.

00:59:58.440 | So that's number one.

00:59:59.680 | Number two is, yeah, bring them a gift, bring them some little

01:00:03.120 | goody, and to say, "Thank you."

01:00:04.680 | So that might mean that you buy La Duree Macarons the moment you arrive at Paris

01:00:10.680 | Charles de Gaulle Airport, and you have your VIP greeter stop you for a second to

01:00:13.840 | buy them, buy them a little treat, a little token of appreciation there, or even bring

01:00:17.800 | it from home, bring them Ghirardelli chocolate from California.

01:00:20.440 | Not the best chocolate in the world, but it's something from San Francisco.

01:00:23.440 | It's cool.

01:00:24.240 | It ties you to a place, and it shows this intention of thank you, of gratitude, right?

01:00:28.800 | And then of course, give them money.

01:00:29.800 | I like to tip concierges at the beginning of a stay, which will

01:00:33.480 | always help ensure wonderful service.

01:00:35.320 | And then at the very end of a stay, if they've gone above and beyond,

01:00:38.160 | again, I would give them something.

01:00:39.680 | What are you giving them?

01:00:40.840 | It's really up to you.

01:00:41.920 | There is no guide.

01:00:42.880 | I was talking with a hotelier in Paris, actually, and he said to me, "We've

01:00:46.960 | got some clients who tip a 20 euro a day, and they give it at the front.

01:00:50.120 | And if the concierge has gone above and beyond while they're there, they give

01:00:53.600 | them a little bit more at the end, another 20 or 50 euro."

01:00:55.760 | I know one guy who just tips a thousand dollars wherever he goes when he gets

01:00:59.320 | there, because he can do that, good for him.

01:01:00.880 | Trust me, his service is exceptional, right?

01:01:03.160 | So it really depends on what you want to do, but any token of gratitude and

01:01:07.000 | appreciation is always appreciated, including just a simple email before and

01:01:11.160 | after the stay saying, "Hey, you did a great job.

01:01:13.400 | Thank you."

01:01:13.760 | Can tipping ever unlock something?

01:01:16.160 | Can you walk into a restaurant and say, "Tip the hostess and get a table

01:01:21.040 | that you wouldn't otherwise gotten."

01:01:22.560 | Or I've often heard tipping the person checking you in, in Vegas, gets you a

01:01:26.400 | nicer room.

01:01:27.120 | Right.

01:01:27.400 | Have you had experience with those things?

01:01:28.960 | Yeah.

01:01:29.120 | Do they work?

01:01:29.440 | I think in certain places, it absolutely works.

01:01:31.760 | In Vegas, in Italy, in Paris, it can go a long way.

01:01:35.000 | In Frankfurt or Zurich, I don't know if you're going to get the same reaction

01:01:38.160 | by tipping somebody 20 francs or euro.

01:01:39.920 | It just depends on what the local custom is.

01:01:42.000 | In Japan, that might seem very odd to receive a tip at check-in from someone.

01:01:46.120 | But if you wrote them a lovely note and handed it to them with two hands at

01:01:49.040 | check-in, that might be a different story, and accompany that with a gift.

01:01:52.280 | So really, yes, the answer is it can unlock experiences for you, for sure.

01:01:56.240 | It has to be culturally appropriate to the market that you're in.

01:01:59.120 | And if you have questions about that, look online and look ahead of time and

01:02:02.320 | say like tipping concierge or tipping at check-in and seeing what will happen.

01:02:05.920 | What won't work is you're not going to get an upgrade if you give a flight

01:02:10.000 | attendant 20 bucks.

01:02:11.000 | You're not, they're going to be pissed at you.

01:02:12.880 | The same thing with a gate agent at an airport, right?

01:02:15.120 | Those things don't work.

01:02:16.280 | You can, which I've done, absolutely bring flight attendants chocolate and

01:02:20.760 | say, Hey, I know how hard you're working.

01:02:22.400 | Thank you.

01:02:22.920 | And watch what the service you get is.

01:02:24.640 | It's exceptional.

01:02:25.280 | No matter what a cabin of service you're in.

01:02:27.280 | The followup question naturally is, is there anything you can do to get an

01:02:32.320 | upgrade on a flight for free without using your points and miles?

01:02:35.960 | It sounds like the answer is no.

01:02:36.960 | I have no recommendable options other than enhancing your on flight service

01:02:42.400 | experience by bringing gifts for the flight attendants.

01:02:44.640 | I love doing that anyway, because they're some of the hardest working

01:02:47.120 | people in hospitality.

01:02:48.480 | That's a crazy job and think about how many crazy people are

01:02:50.680 | yelling at them at all times.

01:02:51.680 | Take care of them, bring them treats, bring them chocolates.

01:02:54.800 | Just even just saying, thank you.

01:02:56.400 | Some loyalty programs will give certain status members, like there's a little

01:03:01.840 | like certificates that you can then give away to a flight attendant to say, Hey,

01:03:05.320 | thank you did a great job.

01:03:06.280 | And I've actually written in to request more from American airlines

01:03:09.480 | and they've sent them to me.

01:03:10.240 | So that's also useful to know is that American United, they used to Delta for a

01:03:15.600 | little while, they used to give you these certificates, ask your loyalty

01:03:18.560 | program, if they have anything that you can use to reward their staff, they

01:03:22.800 | might just direct you to some online form, which is worthless.

01:03:24.880 | If they have a physical thing you can give away that, that goes, that goes miles.

01:03:28.320 | All right.

01:03:29.120 | Last thing is about organizing stuff on the ground.

01:03:32.680 | I know we talked on this in our first episode, but if we're focused on the

01:03:37.040 | higher end, are there concierge services?

01:03:40.840 | Is it the hotel?

01:03:42.120 | Is it things like quintessentially that can unlock stuff or are most of these

01:03:47.320 | services more about saving you the time and energy of organizing than actual access?

01:03:53.000 | All of the above.

01:03:54.200 | So it depends on the experience you want to have.

01:03:55.920 | And I'll give you an example.

01:03:57.080 | If you want to go to the formula one track in Monza in Italy, okay.

01:04:01.520 | There are multiple ways of going about that, right?

01:04:04.680 | You can go to the formula one track and find out, Hey, how do I get access here?

01:04:09.400 | And if they say to you, Oh, sorry, it's private only, or you can't, you're a

01:04:12.800 | schlub or whatever it is, then you look at step B.

01:04:15.200 | Well, who sells just access to that?

01:04:17.480 | Is there a racing club?

01:04:18.800 | Is there a formula one focused tourism experience that I could look at

01:04:23.000 | where I could buy access that way?

01:04:24.440 | What hotel you think, can you ask them and can you see what they can do?

01:04:28.000 | Do they recommend not working with the concierge, but working with a local

01:04:30.840 | ticket provider or something else, right?

01:04:32.920 | Yes.

01:04:33.720 | You can go to a DMC that oversees a region and they might look at all of Northern

01:04:38.280 | Italy, or they might be responsible for all of Italy and say to them, Hey, listen,

01:04:41.880 | I want to do this experience in Monza, but I also want to go to this restaurant

01:04:45.200 | and this, and they can help you put together that whole experience.

01:04:47.560 | Or it might be something that is so hyper-focused that you would want to

01:04:50.640 | use a service like a quintessentially where they're putting together an entire

01:04:54.200 | trip for you based around one experience.

01:04:56.560 | I want to go golfing at St.

01:04:57.760 | Andrew's.

01:04:58.200 | I want to do the racetrack.

01:04:59.560 | I want to do driving here.

01:05:00.600 | I want to do whatever.

01:05:01.320 | And then they literally craft a trip around that.

01:05:03.880 | Whether it's a travel designer or a membership club, like quintessentially,

01:05:06.840 | I would recommend looking at that to see who can help you build that rounded

01:05:10.680 | trip with the guarantee of access to the key thing it is that you want.

01:05:14.840 | But I would always first start with what is that service?

01:05:18.440 | What is that place I want to go?

01:05:20.240 | And is there a way of cutting out all the middlemen first, directly getting access?

01:05:23.720 | And if I can't do that, then keep going in the concentric circles thereafter.

01:05:27.640 | I haven't used quintessentially or any of the other high-end concierge services.

01:05:31.320 | They're quite expensive thousands of dollars a year.

01:05:33.680 | I'm actually thinking maybe it would be a fun episode to bring someone on from

01:05:36.200 | them and just talk about where they add value, how that works.

01:05:38.880 | So that's something we'll do in the future.

01:05:40.600 | I think that's all I got for this episode right now.

01:05:43.360 | I'm sure we're going to come up with more.

01:05:45.000 | We'll have Lee back on a third time.

01:05:46.760 | Before we go, where can people stay in tune with what you're working on?

01:05:50.360 | My name is spelled in a funny way.

01:05:52.000 | It's Lee, L E I G H.

01:05:54.040 | And last name Rowan, R O W A N.

01:05:56.120 | The company is Savanti Travel, S A V A N T I Travel.

01:06:01.200 | Hit me up online.

01:06:02.840 | I'm always here to be helpful however I can.

01:06:04.840 | I'm so appreciative of the opportunity to see you again in this beautiful place

01:06:08.160 | and to check in again on these fun topics.

01:06:11.200 | And again, I'm giving you huge kudos on the millions of listeners you've had,

01:06:16.000 | the incredible success and these luminary guests of which I am just a mere peon.

01:06:20.680 | Well, the advice you've given in our first episode to reach out to the hotel,

01:06:25.640 | to get upgraded has easily been the most emailed topic I've gotten from any

01:06:30.640 | listener. So many people have been upgraded because of it.

01:06:34.080 | Shout out to one listener,

01:06:35.840 | Janie who actually had her initials embroidered into a pillow.

01:06:39.120 | That was so cool.

01:06:40.600 | It was wild. So, you know,

01:06:42.320 | your hacks in the first episode and this one will hook up hundreds of people.

01:06:45.760 | Thank you and hope to do it again soon.

01:06:48.080 | Thank you so much, Chris.

01:06:49.000 | I really hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for listening.

01:06:53.920 | If you haven't already left a rating and a review for the show in Apple Podcasts

01:06:58.280 | or Spotify, I would really appreciate it.

01:07:00.560 | And if you have any feedback on the show, questions for me,

01:07:03.320 | or just want to say hi,

01:07:04.600 | I'm Chris@allthehacks.com or @hutchins on Twitter.

01:07:08.720 | That's it for this week. I'll see you next week.

01:07:10.880 | I want to tell you about another podcast I love that goes deep on all things

01:07:30.440 | money.

01:07:31.040 | That means everything from money hacks to wealth building to early retirement.

01:07:34.560 | It's called the Personal Finance Podcast,

01:07:36.960 | and it's much more about building generational wealth and spending your money

01:07:40.960 | on the things you value than it is about clipping coupons to save a dollar.

01:07:44.680 | It's hosted by my good friend,

01:07:46.560 | Andrew who truly believes that everyone in this world can build wealth and his

01:07:50.520 | passion and excitement are what make this show so entertaining.

01:07:54.000 | I know because I was a guest on the show in December, 2022,

01:07:58.200 | but recently I listened to an episode where Andrew shared 16 money stats that

01:08:02.640 | will blow your mind.

01:08:03.640 | And it was so crazy to learn things like 35% of millennials are not participating

01:08:08.600 | in their employer's retirement plan.

01:08:10.240 | And that's just one of the many fascinating stats he shared.

01:08:13.880 | The Personal Finance Podcast has something for everyone.

01:08:16.840 | It's filled with so many tips and tactics and hacks to help you get better with

01:08:20.600 | your money and grow your wealth. So I highly recommend you check it out.

01:08:24.400 | Just search for the Personal Finance Podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify,

01:08:28.440 | or wherever you listen to podcasts and enjoy.