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00:01:34.640 | Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks, a show about upgrading
00:01:42.240 | your life, money, and travel.
00:01:44.360 | I'm Chris Hutchins, and I am excited you're here today.
00:01:47.080 | Now, last September, I flew out to Austin for one of my favorite conferences,
00:01:51.720 | FinCon, and while I was there, I managed to catch a keynote from Vanessa Van
00:01:56.000 | Edwards.
00:01:56.600 | Now, I'd never heard of her before, but I was totally captivated.
00:02:00.240 | So we spoke after the talk and she agreed to come on the show as soon as she
00:02:04.360 | finished writing her next book.
00:02:05.720 | Well, that book came out yesterday, March 1st, and here she is today.
00:02:10.480 | So who is Vanessa?
00:02:12.000 | She's the lead investigator at Science of People, a human behavior research lab.
00:02:16.600 | She's the best-selling author of Captivate, the science of succeeding with
00:02:20.760 | people.
00:02:21.280 | She's taught over half a million people worldwide on how to succeed in business
00:02:25.480 | and life by understanding the hidden dynamics of people.
00:02:28.920 | And she just published her latest book, Cues, Master the Secret Language of
00:02:33.920 | Charismatic Communication.
00:02:35.280 | We're going to talk about how to control and leverage those tiny signals you're
00:02:39.760 | sending from your stance or your facial expression to your word choice or your
00:02:44.320 | vocal tone to improve your personal and professional relationships.
00:02:48.600 | We'll also talk about the science behind becoming charismatic, how to optimize
00:02:53.600 | even your video call background, and so much more, including her top picks for
00:02:58.760 | your next trip to Austin.
00:02:59.960 | That is a lot to cover.
00:03:01.680 | So let's jump in.
00:03:02.920 | Vanessa, thank you so much for being here and congrats on the book launch.
00:03:09.560 | Oh my goodness.
00:03:10.560 | Thank you so much for having me.
00:03:11.600 | It's like we're celebrating.
00:03:12.680 | Thank you for having me.
00:03:13.760 | So I read the title of the book at first, Cues, Master the Secret Language of
00:03:18.400 | Charismatic Communication.
00:03:19.720 | I had two reactions.
00:03:21.440 | First, yes, please.
00:03:23.280 | I want to master that secret language.
00:03:25.440 | But second, and this is my first question for you, what is a cue?
00:03:30.080 | I know, I know.
00:03:31.400 | So a cue, very easy, is the social signal we send to each other.
00:03:35.760 | So these can be nonverbal, body language, facial expressions, gestures.
00:03:40.840 | They can be vocal.
00:03:42.120 | That's the one people mostly forget.
00:03:43.440 | How we sound, our volume, our pace, our cadence, our accent.
00:03:47.760 | Verbal, the words we use, those are the cues we're most familiar with.
00:03:51.800 | And lastly, imagery, colors, fonts, props, what's behind me in my
00:03:57.320 | background, those are all imagery cues.
00:03:59.960 | Wow.
00:04:01.360 | And what is the tie between cues and this kind of charisma or
00:04:06.480 | charismatic communication?
00:04:07.720 | Yeah.
00:04:08.200 | So I have always been fascinated by charismatic people.
00:04:11.360 | That's probably because I do not feel very naturally charismatic.
00:04:14.760 | I joke that I'm a recovering awkward person, still very much in recovery.
00:04:19.280 | And I was the kid on the playground who would watch the cool kids and be like,
00:04:23.280 | wow, they have that it factor.
00:04:25.720 | And for many years, I think this is a myth that I'm hoping to bust with this
00:04:29.560 | book is I thought you either were born with it or you weren't, you either born
00:04:33.360 | charismatic or you weren't.
00:04:34.640 | And what I've come to learn and what the research also says is no, actually
00:04:38.920 | charisma absolutely can be learned.
00:04:40.960 | And there is a small percent of the population who are born charismatic,
00:04:44.280 | like out of the womb.
00:04:45.120 | They're just like entertaining parties and like name dropping.
00:04:48.280 | And like they're super charismatic, but most charismatic people actually
00:04:51.360 | develop it over time.
00:04:52.560 | And the way that we do this is through our cues.
00:04:55.600 | So what I didn't realize is that, and about 17 years ago, I started to catalog
00:05:00.120 | the cues that I was seeing.
00:05:01.320 | And at the very beginning, I had no idea this would end up being a book, by the
00:05:04.320 | way, I started a little folder on my desktop called curious cues.
00:05:08.400 | And these were just cues that I was noticing across business, politics,
00:05:14.560 | athletics, that very highly charismatic people were using the same cues over
00:05:19.360 | and over again.
00:05:19.920 | It didn't matter their industry.
00:05:21.640 | It didn't matter their talent.
00:05:22.440 | They were using these cues over and over.
00:05:24.400 | And I thought, what are they doing?
00:05:26.480 | How is it they captivate us?
00:05:28.200 | How is it they can pop onto an interview or come on video and we immediately
00:05:32.640 | want to watch them.
00:05:33.480 | So a cue is how charismatic people socially signal their charisma to others.
00:05:40.360 | Yes.
00:05:40.640 | And I know you've talked in your previous book and a lot about what charisma is.
00:05:45.640 | Could you kind of break it down?
00:05:47.040 | Because like you've said in the past, like, you know, it's something that we
00:05:50.440 | all know, but we don't actually have a way to describe.
00:05:53.040 | And I think that might be a good starting point.
00:05:54.640 | This is exactly it.
00:05:55.920 | We, we feel like charisma is like this kind of mysterious behavior, but
00:05:59.920 | actually it's not mysterious at all.
00:06:01.240 | There is a formula for charisma.
00:06:02.760 | And this, by the way, when I read this in the research, it was like relief.
00:06:06.080 | So what the research finds is that highly charismatic people, this is
00:06:10.240 | research out of Princeton university from Dr.
00:06:12.000 | Susan Fisk, is that highly charismatic people rank off the charts in two
00:06:17.440 | specific traits.
00:06:18.520 | They have to be both warm and competent.
00:06:22.040 | So when you meet a highly charismatic person at the same time, they're signaling
00:06:26.520 | likeability, trust, worth, collaboration, openness.
00:06:30.680 | And at the very same time, they're signaling competence, capability,
00:06:34.600 | efficiency, productivity.
00:06:36.560 | And the reason why highly charismatic people are so captivating is they're
00:06:41.600 | always hitting that balance.
00:06:43.360 | We both want to be around them and want to work with them.
00:06:45.880 | We both trust them and also take them seriously.
00:06:48.680 | That is the formula for charisma.
00:06:50.560 | And is there a way someone listening could evaluate where they are?
00:06:55.720 | I mean, is it a spectrum?
00:06:57.200 | Could you not even be on the spectrum?
00:06:59.520 | I think that, um, I like to think of it as sort of a scale.
00:07:02.040 | So this is what I talk about in the book is that you can either be highly warm
00:07:06.520 | leaning or highly competent leaning.
00:07:09.000 | And this is why there's different flavors of charisma.
00:07:11.520 | So when you think about warmth and competence, a way to sort of self assess
00:07:15.640 | or I'll give yourself a little audit is which sounds more like you ready for a
00:07:19.680 | little test.
00:07:20.320 | Okay.
00:07:20.600 | So is it called a, would people describe you as collaborative, a team player,
00:07:28.880 | patient, compassionate, friendly, that's column a column B would people describe
00:07:37.240 | you as competent, impressive, powerful, efficient, memorable.
00:07:44.760 | So which column had more?
00:07:47.920 | Yes.
00:07:48.720 | People would describe me as that.
00:07:49.960 | So usually people have a leaning, right?
00:07:52.400 | They have like more warm, more competent, or if you have a mixture of both
00:07:56.000 | amazing, you're one of those very rare birds, highly charismatic.
00:07:59.120 | If I read those two lists, I think this is actually more common.
00:08:02.560 | If we're really honest with ourselves, this was me.
00:08:04.280 | If I said those two lists and none of those sounded like you, you're like, I
00:08:09.560 | don't think I can genuinely say that anyone would describe me as those things.
00:08:13.400 | That is okay.
00:08:14.720 | That's where I was when I first started this research.
00:08:17.080 | I call that the danger zone.
00:08:18.720 | You're in the danger zone.
00:08:20.840 | If you don't feel that you are signaling or queuing either warmth or competence,
00:08:26.400 | and this is the problem of very smart people.
00:08:31.280 | Most of my students, like I think most of your listeners are high achieving,
00:08:35.960 | high earning, high performance, smart, talented, capable individuals.
00:08:40.880 | The problem is, is that very smart people often rely too much on their ideas.
00:08:46.080 | They know they have really good ideas.
00:08:48.160 | They know they have really good training.
00:08:49.440 | They know they have really good skills.
00:08:50.800 | So they double down on that.
00:08:52.600 | But the problem is, is they don't think about how to communicate those ideas.
00:08:56.320 | So they walk into a boardroom or they go in a presentation or they're asking to
00:09:00.640 | raise their rates with clients, or they're asking for a raise from their boss.
00:09:03.880 | And they don't understand why the other person doesn't see their smarts.
00:09:07.560 | Cues are how we communicate the warmth and competence of our ideas.
00:09:12.200 | Yeah.
00:09:12.920 | So I want to get out, get into getting out of the danger zone for people who are on
00:09:17.000 | either spectrum, how to fix it, but I thought a good place to start is could you
00:09:21.280 | tell me about the cues you brought to this conversation?
00:09:24.960 | And I'm hoping that by the time this happens, we'll start putting things out on
00:09:29.160 | YouTube.
00:09:29.560 | Maybe someone could watch the video.
00:09:30.920 | If not stay tuned, it'll happen.
00:09:32.920 | But what did you bring to set an example of how you wanted to be conveyed?
00:09:37.560 | Before Vanessa answers, I just want to let you all know that I was actually able to
00:09:42.520 | start putting the videos of all the hacks on YouTube, starting with today's episode.
00:09:47.120 | So if you want to check it out, just go to all the hacks.com/video to watch.
00:09:52.520 | And I have video from almost every episode I've done to date.
00:09:56.840 | So please hit the subscribe button on YouTube and the rest of these videos will
00:10:00.800 | be coming out soon.
00:10:01.840 | Okay.
00:10:02.800 | I'll get back to letting Vanessa share what cues she brought to our conversation
00:10:07.040 | today.
00:10:07.480 | Sure.
00:10:08.560 | So actually let's start with vocal.
00:10:10.000 | So for people who are listening or watching, this would be helpful.
00:10:12.480 | So I know, and the research shows that the way that we say our words, our vocal
00:10:18.240 | power is a very important aspect of how people judge our charisma.
00:10:21.800 | Our vocal cues are really essential for communicating both competence and warmth.
00:10:26.520 | And so a study that I share in the book, which I'll stay here, cause I just think
00:10:29.600 | it's mind blowing is they had doctors record 10 second voice tone clips, short
00:10:36.880 | clips where they said like their name, where they worked in their specialty.
00:10:39.440 | So it sounded like this.
00:10:40.480 | Hi, my name is Dr.
00:10:42.200 | Edwards.
00:10:42.840 | I specialize in oncology and I work at the children's hospital.
00:10:46.240 | Okay.
00:10:46.880 | Very simple.
00:10:47.480 | It took these clips and they were bold, the words.
00:10:50.400 | So you could hear the volume, the pace, the cadence, all the vocal cues, but none
00:10:54.160 | of the actual words.
00:10:55.240 | Then they asked participants to listen to these clips and rate the doctors on
00:11:00.760 | warmth and competence.
00:11:02.640 | The two things that we know are essential for charisma.
00:11:04.680 | What's incredible is imagine this for a second.
00:11:07.440 | You're given a clip of gobbledygook, right?
00:11:09.360 | Hello.
00:11:09.760 | Like I said, the clips kind of sound like a little bit like totally distorted.
00:11:15.840 | And you're asked, how smart is this person?
00:11:18.320 | How friendly is this person?
00:11:20.000 | Like your base, this is based on almost nothing.
00:11:22.080 | What they found incredibly is the doctors who had the lowest ratings of warmth and
00:11:29.440 | competence had the highest rate of malpractice lawsuits.
00:11:33.320 | Now this indicates, yeah.
00:11:36.680 | Wow.
00:11:37.760 | We don't just sue doctors based on their skills.
00:11:41.120 | We sue doctors based on our perception of their skills.
00:11:45.280 | And that happens within the first 10 seconds of hearing them.
00:11:48.800 | So what I brought to this interview, I know that the first 10 words out of my
00:11:54.640 | mouth, not only what the verbal cues are, but also how I share those first 10 words
00:11:59.800 | are going to set me up for warmth and competence for the entire interview.
00:12:04.240 | And the biggest mistake that I used to make that I hear a lot of people make on
00:12:07.920 | their video calls or on their interviews is they hold their breath and they wait to
00:12:13.400 | start.
00:12:13.800 | And then they say their hello on the highest end of their range.
00:12:17.440 | They go, hello.
00:12:19.320 | Oh, hi.
00:12:20.800 | Hi.
00:12:21.480 | How are you?
00:12:22.200 | And then they go down into their lowest range.
00:12:25.280 | So one is when we analyzed video calls and the vocal power behind videos, often
00:12:31.280 | people's highest note was the first word.
00:12:34.440 | So make sure number one, just as I try to do right when I hopped on is as you were
00:12:39.360 | saying hello, I made sure to speak on the outbreath.
00:12:42.360 | So instead of, Hey, I'm happy to be here all the way up here, I was, Hey, I'm so
00:12:47.760 | happy to be here.
00:12:48.600 | Those sound totally different, but they both come from me.
00:12:53.200 | And that is simply an effect of breath.
00:12:55.200 | So one is I made sure I was in the lowest end of my range.
00:12:59.960 | Uh, and then second, I also made sure that, and that's a vocal competence.
00:13:03.800 | So we are always sitting for lower end of range for, uh, confidence to hear
00:13:07.960 | competence, to hear our, is someone feeling good about what they're going to say?
00:13:11.800 | Are they holding their breath?
00:13:12.640 | Are they nervous?
00:13:13.280 | And the second thing is I also try to bring vocal warmth.
00:13:15.520 | So I truly am grateful to be here.
00:13:17.720 | I feel very, very supported by you in supporting this book launch.
00:13:21.600 | And I need your help, right?
00:13:22.640 | Like the only way that I can reach your listeners is with you.
00:13:24.720 | So I was keeping that gratitude at the very front of my brain so that when I
00:13:31.640 | said, I'm so happy to be here, you could actually, so if you listen, just if you
00:13:36.880 | close your eyes for a second, or if you're listening, just listen to the
00:13:39.320 | vocal power, smiles, change the timber of our voice.
00:13:43.200 | They've actually detected that a smile can change the way that your voice sounds.
00:13:47.440 | We can hear a smile.
00:13:48.880 | So if I were to say, and this is a mistake that a lot of speakers make, they say
00:13:52.720 | verbal words that are good, but they sound bad.
00:13:55.560 | So they'll say, yeah, I'm so happy to be here.
00:13:57.840 | Now, verbally, I said, I'm so happy to be here, but I don't sound very happy.
00:14:01.320 | And someone will hop on a video call and be like, uh, Hey everyone.
00:14:04.520 | Uh, so happy to have you all here.
00:14:06.080 | Doesn't sound very happy.
00:14:08.320 | Like instinctively we're like, no, that doesn't sound very happy.
00:14:12.240 | Whereas I'm going to smile so you can hear it.
00:14:14.360 | I'm going to smile all the way up into my eyes.
00:14:16.360 | An authentic smile reaches all the way up into these, uh, upper cheek muscles.
00:14:20.080 | So if I smile all the way with my face, all the way up into my upper cheek
00:14:23.520 | muscles, and I say, I'm so happy to be here, it sounds different.
00:14:28.040 | We can literally hear the warmth.
00:14:29.960 | And so I want to start to pair.
00:14:32.120 | And that's what I try to do in my interviews is how can we
00:14:34.440 | pair our intentions with our cues?
00:14:36.200 | That was a long answer.
00:14:37.600 | Sorry, Chris.
00:14:38.600 | That was great.
00:14:39.840 | That's part of what you brought to this.
00:14:42.080 | And you said the first 10 words are important and you talked a lot about how
00:14:46.200 | to deliver them with your breath, with your intonation, with all that, with
00:14:49.880 | smiling, what about the actual words?
00:14:52.240 | Yes.
00:14:52.880 | Okay.
00:14:53.280 | So once you have the nonverbal and vocal down, and that's sort of like a
00:14:57.480 | foundation, that's how I kind of like to think about it is if you have your
00:15:00.840 | nonverbal foundation, your vocal foundation down it, that's a much easier
00:15:04.400 | way to deliver almost any kind of verbal content.
00:15:06.720 | However, your verbal cues matter.
00:15:08.560 | And so when we look at verbal cues, we instinctively all know
00:15:12.840 | that our words matter, right?
00:15:13.880 | Like everyone listening can be like, of course our words matter.
00:15:16.320 | But what I don't think we realize is that our words are cues for behavior.
00:15:22.040 | In other words, especially as we're doing more and more virtual communication,
00:15:27.200 | our brains are constantly hunting, searching for listening for how should I
00:15:32.720 | act, how should I behave?
00:15:34.880 | How should I feel?
00:15:36.160 | And what research has found, and this is across a lot of different studies, and
00:15:40.320 | this is kind of a fun one that I'll share.
00:15:41.920 | Brian Wansink wanted to know if a verbal cue could change someone's attitude.
00:15:47.680 | What he did was he blindfolded people in his labs.
00:15:51.160 | They couldn't see anything.
00:15:52.280 | And then he gave them a bowl of strawberry yogurt.
00:15:55.800 | So I actually don't even talk about this study in the book.
00:15:57.520 | I think it's so fun.
00:15:58.400 | He gave them a bowl of strawberry yogurt and they're blindfolded and he has them
00:16:02.200 | eat the strawberry yogurt.
00:16:03.320 | So they're blindfolded.
00:16:04.280 | They're eating it.
00:16:04.760 | They're tasting their strawberry yogurt.
00:16:06.440 | And then he asked them to rate the yogurt on its strawberry flavor.
00:16:10.960 | So how strawberry do you feel this yogurt is?
00:16:13.080 | 59% of the participants rated the yogurt as having a nice strawberry flavor.
00:16:18.320 | There was a catch.
00:16:20.120 | The yogurt was chocolate.
00:16:22.040 | Totally different flavor profile, right?
00:16:25.680 | Like it wasn't like strawberry and raspberry.
00:16:27.880 | It was like strawberry and chocolate, which tastes totally different.
00:16:30.080 | This is the first of many studies that shows that when the brain heard
00:16:36.720 | strawberry and then was asked to look for strawberry, the mouth tasted
00:16:42.720 | strawberry, why I think this is important is because again, the
00:16:47.560 | brain is always looking for cues.
00:16:49.080 | We're always looking for, how should we feel?
00:16:50.560 | How should we taste?
00:16:51.240 | How should we act?
00:16:52.560 | When you set up a calendar invite, the first 10 words of that meeting
00:16:56.480 | are the title of calendar invite.
00:16:58.000 | Like your meeting started the moment someone invited you to that calendar
00:17:02.240 | invite, your meeting started the moment someone opened the calendar invite
00:17:05.600 | or saw your name in their inbox.
00:17:07.200 | That's the first 10 words they heard.
00:17:08.960 | When someone sees your email, the subject, and maybe the opening line,
00:17:13.800 | that's your verbal first impression.
00:17:15.680 | And those matter because people are looking for what's the flavor.
00:17:19.960 | Is it strawberry?
00:17:21.440 | Is it chocolate?
00:17:22.880 | What should I be searching for?
00:17:24.000 | And so my argument is what if we think about how we want someone to
00:17:29.560 | feel before, during, and after interacting with us, do we want them to be warm?
00:17:36.120 | Do we want to inspire openness and collaboration and trust?
00:17:40.160 | You should be using verbal cues in the warm category.
00:17:44.080 | So if you want a collaborative meeting, call it collab session or team collab.
00:17:51.040 | If you want in an email to trigger more warmth, say hi team or hi friend or hi
00:17:55.720 | partner, those labels are actually cuing people to feel in fact, more collaborative.
00:18:01.560 | It literally prepares their brain for more collaboration.
00:18:05.360 | On the other side, if you got to get it done, right?
00:18:08.000 | If you're like, no, no, no, no warmth today.
00:18:10.160 | I got to get it done.
00:18:11.080 | We got to be competent.
00:18:11.960 | We got to be productive.
00:18:12.880 | Okay.
00:18:13.520 | Set people up to be productive, right?
00:18:16.000 | Call it a goal session.
00:18:17.360 | Call it 2022 wins, right?
00:18:20.680 | The more that we use, let's be productive.
00:18:23.000 | Let's get it done.
00:18:23.880 | I have an agenda attached.
00:18:25.280 | I can't wait to power through this.
00:18:27.000 | You're actually helping the other person's brain get ready to win, to
00:18:32.720 | power through, to achieve, to be efficient.
00:18:35.080 | And so I think that that's a gift that we can give people that these verbal cues,
00:18:39.360 | especially the 10 first 10 words, not only help you be more charismatic and
00:18:43.760 | purposeful, but they're actually setting people up to more successful themselves.
00:18:46.800 | Yeah.
00:18:48.440 | I feel like I'm in a choose your own adventure novel where I'm like, gosh,
00:18:50.960 | there's six places I want to go with this conversation.
00:18:53.480 | I kind of love that.
00:18:54.320 | I love it.
00:18:56.120 | I'll pick one and hopefully we'll come back if we need to, but.
00:18:59.360 | It seems like with every business, you get to a certain size and
00:19:04.520 | the cracks start to emerge.
00:19:06.320 | Things that you used to do in a day are taking a week and you have too many
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00:22:06.240 | I noticed that nowadays with all these virtual meetings, people show up and the
00:22:10.440 | meeting hasn't started and you have this banter back and forth.
00:22:13.720 | And what I hear you saying about verbal cues is they're going
00:22:17.400 | to set the tone of the meeting.
00:22:18.520 | But I feel like so often the start of it is like, ah, you know, I was so, it's a
00:22:23.280 | long day, I got a lot on my plate.
00:22:25.520 | Is that completely counterproductive to what we should be doing?
00:22:29.080 | Okay.
00:22:29.680 | Thank you for bringing this up because here are my least favorite words
00:22:34.320 | at the beginning of a meeting.
00:22:35.200 | Are you ready?
00:22:35.720 | Like when I hear these words, I want to crumple to the floor and go to sleep.
00:22:39.920 | Okay.
00:22:40.320 | Here's what they are.
00:22:41.440 | We're going to wait while everyone logs on.
00:22:44.240 | Oh, oh no.
00:22:47.520 | It's like telling everyone your time isn't valuable.
00:22:51.760 | My time is invaluable.
00:22:53.480 | We're going to do nothing for the next few minutes, except
00:22:56.120 | worry and check our email.
00:22:58.360 | So one is I want you to work as much as you possibly can to make
00:23:05.080 | those first few minutes productive.
00:23:06.680 | And this doesn't necessarily mean you get started right away, although it can.
00:23:10.280 | So you can make a rule that when everyone is on, you're starting,
00:23:14.240 | you're not waiting for everyone.
00:23:15.480 | So you can go right into it.
00:23:16.520 | We don't need to have rapport and chit chat to be charismatic.
00:23:19.680 | Absolutely not.
00:23:20.320 | In fact, competence is about productivity.
00:23:23.280 | It's about getting things done.
00:23:24.240 | So if you want to install competence, if you're leaning towards competence,
00:23:28.080 | you've got to get it done.
00:23:29.080 | Start right away.
00:23:30.320 | Like it doesn't have to include rapport.
00:23:32.440 | Another way of being productive is also to have productive rapport.
00:23:37.000 | Here's what unproductive rapport looks like.
00:23:39.520 | And this is accidentally happening all over the, all over
00:23:42.360 | the place, especially in COVID.
00:23:43.600 | Unproductive rapport building is when we start off the meeting like this,
00:23:47.320 | we're going to wait for everyone to get on unproductive, right?
00:23:49.400 | We're all wasting our time.
00:23:50.600 | And then gosh, those COVID numbers.
00:23:55.440 | Did you see that the terrible storm that's happening on the East coast?
00:24:00.120 | Oh, it's been so busy, huh?
00:24:02.560 | We accidentally start negative in some of these meetings and that derails
00:24:08.880 | any kind of warmth or competence.
00:24:10.520 | That's danger zone.
00:24:11.240 | Danger zone is when you're using words like stress, busy, complicated, weight.
00:24:16.480 | You're literally triggering people to think about stress,
00:24:20.160 | busy, challenging, weight.
00:24:21.880 | So what I'd rather you do is if you're going to have that chit chat and let
00:24:25.040 | people log on, make it productive, start priming people to get
00:24:28.920 | in that right mind space.
00:24:30.160 | So this could be anyone doing anything exciting this weekend.
00:24:34.040 | So at least you're priming for some kind of excitement, right?
00:24:37.440 | Or you can say what's good guys.
00:24:39.320 | I think good happening today.
00:24:40.840 | So in my team calls every Tuesday, we have a team call.
00:24:44.400 | Every single team call.
00:24:46.080 | We start with something good.
00:24:47.200 | And the moment everyone logs on, even if people are straggling in whoever's
00:24:51.760 | on the call starts with something good.
00:24:53.760 | And that's been a great exercise because it's taken unproductive waiting time
00:24:58.080 | into very purposeful rapport building.
00:25:00.440 | It also has changed the nature of waiting in the sense that a lot of our team
00:25:04.280 | members have said, instead of checking my email or running through my to do list
00:25:08.200 | before I hop on a call, I'm thinking about my something good.
00:25:11.800 | I'm like, what's good.
00:25:12.720 | What's good.
00:25:13.120 | What happened?
00:25:13.520 | What's something fun I can share.
00:25:14.400 | And that becomes a way that we can all celebrate.
00:25:17.040 | It becomes a way that we can all have a win.
00:25:18.800 | I learn about my team members.
00:25:20.600 | And so it's only four minutes at the most, but it's taken a sort of like
00:25:25.600 | feet dragging, sometimes accidentally negative time into purposeful goodness.
00:25:31.280 | And so whatever that means for you, just make it productive.
00:25:34.200 | That can be warm.
00:25:35.200 | That can be competent.
00:25:36.160 | I just want it to be purposeful.
00:25:37.480 | And so that's the beginning of the meeting.
00:25:39.800 | I actually think the most awkward time for me, and maybe this is even true on
00:25:44.920 | like personal phone calls with friends is like ending the conversation.
00:25:48.840 | You had a good conversation, whether it's a meeting or a catch up and you're
00:25:52.200 | kind of at the end, it's like, we don't really have anything to talk about.
00:25:54.720 | I feel like, all right, well, that was good.
00:25:56.720 | Bye.
00:25:57.160 | Like, is there a way to productively end conversations, work or friends?
00:26:02.720 | One of my favorite topics is leaving a lasting first impression.
00:26:05.800 | So I think that we talk a lot about how to make a good first impression, but a
00:26:09.000 | lasting impression is just as important.
00:26:10.440 | You can have a great meeting, but if it ends a slow, awkward death, just like
00:26:13.840 | you're saying, like, so yeah, okay, great talking to you.
00:26:17.560 | Yep.
00:26:17.880 | Oh yeah.
00:26:19.880 | Okay, good.
00:26:20.720 | And bye.
00:26:21.360 | Like that's a horrible last impression.
00:26:23.560 | This can work in person.
00:26:24.880 | This can work on video.
00:26:25.760 | That can work on the phone.
00:26:26.600 | The very first thing that you want to do, if you know that you're heading towards
00:26:29.600 | the end of interaction is you can use a future mention.
00:26:32.200 | So typically when someone mentions a future, something in the future, we know
00:26:35.960 | that we're about to wrap up.
00:26:36.920 | So that could be great.
00:26:38.600 | I'll follow up with you on XYZ that we talked about.
00:26:41.200 | So we kind of instinctively know, ah, okay, we're getting, we're getting to wrap up.
00:26:44.560 | It could be, I hope you have a great time this weekend.
00:26:46.960 | I loved hearing about, about your daughter's softball.
00:26:48.920 | I hope that's wonderful.
00:26:50.120 | That could be, well, this has been awesome.
00:26:52.960 | I hope you have a really nice rest of your day.
00:26:54.640 | Thanks so much for spending your Wednesday morning with me.
00:26:56.600 | Right?
00:26:57.240 | So it's some kind of future mentioned there.
00:26:59.080 | We instinctively know that that's a wrap up and then it's using, I don't know if
00:27:04.200 | this is an official term, but I call it the end tone, like the end tone of voice.
00:27:09.240 | So the end tone of voice, it's just like what I just said.
00:27:12.000 | So I'm using a tone of voice.
00:27:13.640 | It's like, I'm going off.
00:27:15.000 | So if we were in the middle of a conversation, I'm talking like this,
00:27:17.840 | but if we're wrapping up, I'm going to change my tone to sound like this.
00:27:20.440 | Well, this has been great talking.
00:27:22.200 | I've absolutely loved it.
00:27:23.800 | And I'll follow up with everything that we shared.
00:27:26.280 | And thanks so much for your Wednesday morning.
00:27:28.200 | Like I'm just cuing you with that end tone.
00:27:34.760 | And that's a really great way for people to know that we're wrapping,
00:27:37.120 | wrapping, wrapping, wrapping, wrapping, and we're out.
00:27:39.600 | So we talked a lot about meetings in person, conversation, verbal.
00:27:46.160 | Does a lot of this also apply to written communication, whether
00:27:49.320 | that's emails or text messages?
00:27:51.480 | Yes.
00:27:52.000 | So when we talk about the four different aspects of the book, obviously, if we're
00:27:55.880 | in person, we can use all four, right?
00:27:57.720 | We can use imagery, the colors we're wearing.
00:28:00.080 | We can use vocal, non-verbal and verbal.
00:28:02.120 | In email, we're just limiting the amount of communication modes that we can use to
00:28:06.280 | pretty much just verbal and a little bit of imagery.
00:28:09.040 | I mentioned imagery.
00:28:10.360 | Cause I think it's also a forgotten one is even fonts have personality.
00:28:14.520 | There are researchers, real researchers who have looked at
00:28:17.680 | the personality of fonts.
00:28:19.120 | For example, Chris, you want to do a little game?
00:28:20.880 | Yeah.
00:28:22.220 | Okay.
00:28:22.860 | I love games.
00:28:23.680 | What do you think is the least funny font?
00:28:27.880 | According to the research, least funny font.
00:28:30.960 | I'm going to go with Times New Roman.
00:28:33.240 | Okay.
00:28:33.680 | That was my guess as well.
00:28:34.680 | Nope.
00:28:35.240 | It is ironically comic sans, comic sans called comic, least funny font.
00:28:42.800 | They found that when people write things in comic sans, people do not find it
00:28:46.080 | funny, even if the joke is funny.
00:28:47.120 | So even our font can come across in our emails, including colors, including
00:28:53.760 | images that we might be using in our, like either graphics or icons.
00:28:57.320 | So sometimes an email, we can have imagery too, not as much as in
00:29:00.720 | person or like on a zoom background.
00:29:02.360 | Like I'm very purposeful about the props I use behind me in my videos, but
00:29:06.000 | you can have some of those emails in emails.
00:29:08.160 | You have to be queuing people constantly, right?
00:29:12.280 | An email is so few.
00:29:14.120 | It's it's only one mode of communication.
00:29:16.160 | So you have to be really purposeful with it.
00:29:17.960 | You want to make sure, and this is not just about making your emails longer.
00:29:20.960 | And the biggest mistake that people make is they try to be charismatic by adding.
00:29:24.920 | And I don't think that being verbally charismatic is additive.
00:29:27.880 | It's about being purposeful.
00:29:29.480 | So it's using words that trigger something.
00:29:32.160 | I think a lot of our verbal communication has become sterilized, right?
00:29:36.640 | So we send emails that are like, hi, I'm following up the proposal.
00:29:40.720 | I'll send it to you next week.
00:29:42.000 | Thanks for the meeting.
00:29:43.120 | Bye.
00:29:43.440 | Right.
00:29:44.160 | Like super, super sterile.
00:29:46.080 | Can you swap out even a couple of words with something that are going
00:29:49.840 | to change people's perception and the way that they tested this, the reason,
00:29:53.480 | the reason I know that even just a couple of verbal cues matter, this isn't
00:29:57.120 | additive, it's just being purposeful is what the researchers did is they had
00:30:01.120 | people come into their lab and they split them up into two different groups.
00:30:04.240 | The first group got a set of basic directions and they had to complete
00:30:08.400 | some tasks like math problems and some basic like intelligence tasks.
00:30:12.440 | The second group have the exact same quiz, the exact same questions, but in their
00:30:17.920 | directions, they swapped out three or four words with achievement oriented words.
00:30:25.360 | So achievement oriented words are words like win, succeed, master, achieve.
00:30:31.200 | Those are achievement oriented words.
00:30:32.880 | They just sprinkled them in just a couple of swaps, three or four of these words.
00:30:36.240 | They found that the group that read the achievement oriented words did better on
00:30:42.680 | the task, which is insane.
00:30:44.920 | If that three or four words can make people do better on an intelligence
00:30:47.640 | test, they worked harder and longer on the problem set and they had more
00:30:53.920 | motivation, so they actually enjoyed that problem set more.
00:30:57.720 | The reason I share this is because if three or four words swapped out in a
00:31:03.880 | subject or your profile, like your LinkedIn profile or your calendar agenda or the
00:31:09.880 | slides behind you in a presentation, if that can make your folks, your listeners
00:31:15.880 | feel more motivated, wouldn't we want to give them that gift?
00:31:19.640 | Like what a gift that we can give to the world with our charisma actually makes
00:31:23.560 | them more charismatic.
00:31:24.800 | So what I'm hearing is that you can actually have a charismatic email if you
00:31:31.040 | have the right balance of words.
00:31:32.520 | Is it the same thing?
00:31:33.520 | Add a little warmth, add a little competence to an email?
00:31:36.280 | Exactly.
00:31:36.880 | So here's the hack in your subjects, your greeting and your sign off.
00:31:42.600 | I want you to match the words with your charisma goals.
00:31:45.400 | If you want to be warm, use warm words.
00:31:47.960 | Hi partner.
00:31:48.760 | Good morning team.
00:31:49.800 | So happy to see you all.
00:31:51.200 | Best, right?
00:31:52.440 | Signing off best, best is a very warm word.
00:31:54.560 | If you want to be competent, use competent words and your opener and your sign off
00:31:59.200 | on words, let's do this.
00:32:01.400 | Can't wait to work together.
00:32:02.760 | Those are competent openers and words.
00:32:04.880 | So yes, you can match your charisma goals in your emails.
00:32:08.240 | And if you want to kind of come off more charismatic, as you say, is the goal to
00:32:14.080 | balance what's natural for you with those words.
00:32:17.200 | So if at the beginning of this conversation, you reflected and said, wow, I'm
00:32:20.760 | probably more of the competent person, let's add a little warmth, or is the goal
00:32:25.720 | to put both of them out there to have a balance in the email?
00:32:29.120 | Okay.
00:32:29.680 | So this is where we get into the advanced, the advanced tips.
00:32:32.440 | So level one, balance.
00:32:35.760 | So if this is all new to you, I want as balanced as possible.
00:32:40.240 | So a little bit of warm words, a little bit of competent words, same thing, a
00:32:43.040 | really easy hack that we can use here is like on your LinkedIn profile, look at
00:32:47.040 | your headline, look at the first two sentences of your LinkedIn profile, count
00:32:51.840 | the number of warm words versus competent words.
00:32:54.600 | Now this is more art than science.
00:32:56.280 | So we'll get a little bit, um, more creative here, but warm words.
00:32:59.760 | When I say warm words, I mean, warm words kind of make you feel the worm and
00:33:02.880 | fuzzies worms, like words like collaborate team best, both together, happy, great.
00:33:08.720 | Those are warm words.
00:33:09.840 | They have more warmth in them.
00:33:11.120 | Competent words are words like efficient, streamline, chart, data, science, right?
00:33:16.560 | Those are all more competent words.
00:33:18.120 | So a little art, not necessarily science.
00:33:19.720 | Actually, I have a glossary in the book.
00:33:20.880 | If you want a more specific list, I want you to look at your LinkedIn
00:33:24.480 | profile and a way to count how many warm words, how many competent words you're
00:33:27.920 | using and level one goal is to make it a mix.
00:33:31.480 | So try to have an equal amount of warm words and competent words.
00:33:35.040 | So even when I was writing the book, I tried to have a balance of warm and
00:33:39.960 | competent words on the pages that mattered.
00:33:41.840 | So in the introduction, in the description behind the book, in the
00:33:45.640 | description on Amazon, because I know that I want to hit both warm
00:33:49.160 | readers and competent readers.
00:33:50.400 | So I try to have a balance of both in any and all public facing things,
00:33:53.680 | including like my slides.
00:33:55.200 | So I give a lot of keynotes.
00:33:56.640 | I have an exact equal balance of warm slides and competent slides.
00:34:00.800 | My competent slides are graphs and data and research.
00:34:04.200 | And for every single competent side, I have a warm slide, a personal
00:34:07.360 | story, a funny gif, a joke, right?
00:34:09.760 | So those balance out.
00:34:10.920 | So I try to hit that balance level two, and this is for my advanced
00:34:15.080 | learners is if you are with a VIP, if you're with a boss or an important
00:34:20.760 | client or important customer, and you really want to respect them
00:34:26.440 | charismatically, you can dial up into their warmth or their competence.
00:34:31.920 | So for example, I have some VIPs in my life that are super high in competence.
00:34:36.440 | And so to respect and honor them when I am engaging with them,
00:34:40.360 | I also dial up my competence.
00:34:42.800 | I still use warmth, but I just sort of edge more into the kind of words
00:34:47.080 | and nonverbal that they use to honor and respect where they're at.
00:34:50.280 | So that's kind of level two.
00:34:51.400 | That's the ninja, ninja level.
00:34:53.120 | I actually, I have a practical application that I'm now going to apply this.
00:34:58.080 | I'm probably more of a warmth writer with an exclamation point at every
00:35:02.960 | end of thing, always signing off best smiley faces and everything.
00:35:07.120 | But my takeaway is I'm going to go read like the LinkedIn profile
00:35:11.760 | or the bio on the website and try to figure out, OK, is this person
00:35:15.600 | that I'm about to email who I don't know?
00:35:17.280 | It's really easy if it's your boss, you know, is you're the boss,
00:35:19.800 | the person that hugs you when you come in the room, that's super,
00:35:22.120 | you know, always talking about life or they very matter of fact, competent.
00:35:25.840 | But I imagine I could go read the tweets, the blog posts,
00:35:30.560 | the LinkedIn profile, identify who this person is,
00:35:33.440 | and they probably are going to be less excited about an email
00:35:36.440 | filled with exclamation points and smiley faces
00:35:39.320 | if their entire writing on the Internet is very charts, percents, data science.
00:35:45.080 | Exactly. So like watching their YouTube video, watching their TED Talk,
00:35:48.920 | looking at their profiles, matching them as a much.
00:35:51.600 | It's a way of literally saying, I want to be on your page.
00:35:54.840 | I respect you so much that I want to use your language.
00:35:57.400 | You also made a very good point.
00:35:58.840 | So exclamation points, emojis and words like yay, fab, whoop.
00:36:04.560 | Those are all warm.
00:36:06.280 | So they count as one warm point.
00:36:08.320 | In fact, every exclamation point I count as one warm point.
00:36:10.680 | So if you have three exclamation points, that's three warm words.
00:36:13.880 | And for my data heads, charts, percent, numbers or data,
00:36:19.400 | those count as one competent word.
00:36:21.800 | So just consider that when you're doing your little audit on your profile.
00:36:25.480 | Yeah, you could just score an email plus one, minus one.
00:36:28.040 | And so I love people to do a little audit where I ask them
00:36:31.200 | and you can do this after this call is print out your last five
00:36:34.840 | important emails that you sent out.
00:36:36.400 | Whatever five important emails set out, print them out.
00:36:38.560 | Yellow for warm, blue for competent and count them.
00:36:42.400 | How are you coming across?
00:36:43.840 | If you have a mostly yellow email, you are coming across as too highly warm.
00:36:47.120 | Right.
00:36:47.880 | If you have a mostly blue email, you are overwhelming them in competence.
00:36:51.000 | And remember, the research shows competence without warmth
00:36:55.240 | leaves people feeling suspicious.
00:36:58.000 | That is literally what they found, the people who are super smart
00:37:00.480 | but don't have enough warmth.
00:37:02.160 | They are less likely to believe your competence.
00:37:04.280 | So all blue is too much confidence.
00:37:06.040 | And if you have none at all, so no yellow, no blue, it means you're under signaling.
00:37:09.560 | OK, I'm going to do that after this call.
00:37:13.320 | Yeah. But before that.
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00:38:25.480 | Do you all remember episode 122 when I spoke to Chef David Chang
00:38:31.640 | about leveling up your cooking at home?
00:38:33.520 | If not, definitely go back and give it a listen.
00:38:36.040 | But one of his top hacks was using the microwave more.
00:38:39.440 | I'll admit I was a skeptic at first, but after getting a full set
00:38:43.560 | of microwave cookware from Anyday, I'm a total convert.
00:38:47.040 | And I'm excited to partner with them for this episode.
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00:39:15.760 | I highly recommend David Chang's Salmon Rice.
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00:39:33.280 | Again, that's allthehacks.com/anyday for 15% off.
00:39:38.760 | Before we get back to the episode,
00:39:41.800 | I just want to thank you for listening to and supporting the show.
00:39:44.560 | Your support of our advertisers is what keeps this show going.
00:39:48.320 | To learn more about all our partners and get links to all their deals,
00:39:52.040 | you can go to allthehacks.com/deals
00:39:55.280 | where the URLs, codes, and discounts are all right there.
00:39:58.640 | So please consider supporting those who support us.
00:40:01.840 | One thing we didn't talk about when it comes to nonverbal cues.
00:40:04.800 | What about our hands?
00:40:06.120 | What about our backgrounds?
00:40:07.280 | What about that kind of stuff?
00:40:08.400 | Oh, goodness. OK, there's so many things.
00:40:10.600 | So let's talk about backgrounds for a second is
00:40:13.440 | I think that first of all, there is a little bit of early research.
00:40:18.120 | This is kind of new area,
00:40:19.200 | but there's a little bit of early research out of Harvard Business Review
00:40:21.760 | that found virtual backgrounds that are like blurred or fake
00:40:25.440 | increase our cognitive load.
00:40:27.280 | It's our brain wants to see what's behind you.
00:40:29.640 | So if you have a blurred out background or a fake background, it's like
00:40:33.560 | the other person can't help but be like, what's back there?
00:40:37.160 | What's going on back there?
00:40:39.680 | You know what I mean?
00:40:40.120 | So one is try not to have a fake background.
00:40:43.360 | Also, your hands disappear sometimes.
00:40:45.240 | Have you ever noticed that?
00:40:46.080 | Like if someone I can't I'm personally not a fan of the blurred
00:40:50.400 | the virtual, it kind of drives me nuts.
00:40:53.320 | It drives me nuts.
00:40:54.160 | Like that's I'm so glad you said it. It drives me nuts.
00:40:56.640 | Like if we could all just stop having virtual backgrounds.
00:40:59.160 | And the research is beginning to show that as well.
00:41:01.200 | So that's one is I'd rather have it be real.
00:41:03.280 | Two is you can balance your warmth and competence with your background.
00:41:07.600 | So remember, like awards, degrees,
00:41:11.040 | pictures of you with famous people or books.
00:41:14.240 | Those are all competence cues.
00:41:16.040 | You want to balance those out with family photos, a stuffed animal,
00:41:19.920 | a game that you put on your desk, what you put on your desk,
00:41:22.680 | what you put on behind you.
00:41:23.480 | Those are also sending signals about your warmth and competence.
00:41:26.280 | Behind me, I have a world map.
00:41:29.160 | And this actually is the second way that you can think about props
00:41:32.400 | teaching AIDS.
00:41:34.880 | So I've experienced it with a lot of different props behind me.
00:41:38.600 | And one thing that I learned early on was that I used to have chemicals
00:41:42.680 | behind me for about two years.
00:41:43.760 | I had my favorite social chemicals.
00:41:45.280 | So I had oxytocin, serotonin and dopamine behind me.
00:41:50.160 | Super high competence, right?
00:41:51.400 | Having chemicals behind me, it was super high in competence,
00:41:54.120 | but it intimidated people.
00:41:56.040 | People were like, I'm not good at science.
00:41:57.800 | I failed chemistry.
00:41:59.200 | I don't I don't want to see that.
00:42:00.440 | So I was accidentally turning people off.
00:42:02.560 | Then I decided to do a world map because I realized
00:42:06.040 | the biggest question I was getting was, are these universal?
00:42:09.120 | The funny thing is, the moment I put the map behind me,
00:42:12.000 | I stopped getting that question.
00:42:13.120 | This is amazing.
00:42:15.720 | What does my background say?
00:42:17.000 | Is it neutral?
00:42:17.800 | Is it go anywhere? Neutral.
00:42:19.480 | So I see behind you have some black and white images that look abstract.
00:42:23.520 | So I know that this is kind of neutral.
00:42:25.520 | I also see that it's black and white.
00:42:27.040 | So you're trying to not signal anything too big.
00:42:29.520 | In fact, I would think as an interviewer, that's great, right?
00:42:32.520 | Because you're trying to get the focus to be on the person you're interviewing.
00:42:35.920 | So I kind of love it.
00:42:37.520 | Oh, great.
00:42:38.080 | This is all just what we had in the house.
00:42:40.160 | So that worked out great.
00:42:41.640 | And hands, anything hands up, down.
00:42:45.400 | So hands are a really critical part of our charisma.
00:42:48.840 | I talk about this in my TED Talk.
00:42:50.440 | If you're I do a whole hand gesture demo in my TED Talk.
00:42:54.400 | If you're curious about watching it.
00:42:55.680 | What I really want people to understand about gestures
00:42:58.280 | is they are like a nonverbal highlighter.
00:43:01.680 | So gestures add depth of meaning to your words.
00:43:06.200 | So like a highlighter, you wouldn't want to highlight an entire page.
00:43:09.880 | So I wouldn't want to just have gestures all the time.
00:43:11.840 | If I have constant gestures, it's like having a whole page of highlights.
00:43:15.240 | It's too much.
00:43:16.040 | Like our brain can't remember any of them.
00:43:17.920 | What I do want you to think about is how can I add a gesture
00:43:21.080 | to underline or emphasize my words?
00:43:23.720 | So if I'm talking about three things, I'm going to hold up three fingers.
00:43:27.160 | If I'm talking about a big idea, I'm going to show you how big it is.
00:43:30.640 | I'm going to hold a big bowling ball big. That's how big it is.
00:43:34.000 | If something is no big deal, it's really small.
00:43:36.240 | I don't worry to my customer or clients. No big deal.
00:43:38.400 | I'm going to hold up a little tiny thing that shows look how small that is.
00:43:41.480 | It sounds sort of silly,
00:43:43.720 | but that actually is a way that our brain highlights our important points.
00:43:47.720 | So I like to think of gestures as highlighters.
00:43:49.720 | OK, I hope this video is out and people can watch it.
00:43:53.960 | I'll link to the TED Talk in the show notes in the time we have left.
00:43:57.840 | I want to do kind of like a rapid fire of a few things
00:44:00.080 | that I know that you've talked about.
00:44:02.760 | And also you mentioned a glossary of words in the book.
00:44:05.240 | I was surprised a lot of times you look at books and it's just a lot of text.
00:44:08.920 | You have like pictures of facial expressions and how to rate
00:44:12.080 | how people are looking. And so there's actually a lot of like,
00:44:15.040 | it's not just words, it's stuff that you can't convey all the time.
00:44:18.160 | So it's fantastic. Definitely check it out.
00:44:20.640 | Thank you. My rapid fire thing. Yes, let's do it.
00:44:23.080 | They're kind of like hacks that I picked up from you or want to.
00:44:27.520 | What do you do to get someone to stop interrupting you?
00:44:30.120 | You open your mouth like a fish so you can go up.
00:44:34.280 | We know that usually means someone wants to talk.
00:44:37.000 | You can also hold your hand up like a stop sign.
00:44:39.800 | People usually can recognize, oh, they have something they want to say.
00:44:42.800 | Yeah. And what about where to sit?
00:44:46.640 | So where to sit should match your intentions.
00:44:49.120 | So I have a little seating chart in the book where I break down the Last Supper
00:44:52.920 | as an example of seating, because I just think it's like a
00:44:55.120 | basically it's a it's a medieval conference table, basically the Last Supper.
00:44:58.320 | If you're in charge, if you want people to pay attention,
00:45:00.800 | you want to be at the head of the table facing the door, facing the door.
00:45:04.280 | That's the big one people mistake.
00:45:05.600 | Leaders want to see faces as they come in and they want to see who sneaks out early.
00:45:09.280 | So that's usually the leadership position.
00:45:11.320 | If you want to be noticed, if you want to influence the influencer,
00:45:15.240 | you don't want to be in charge.
00:45:16.440 | You want to sit to their right or their left to call those the flanking positions.
00:45:19.320 | If you want to challenge the leader or you want to really be seen
00:45:22.520 | taking a strong stance, you want to sit opposite the leader
00:45:25.160 | or opposite the person who's leading.
00:45:26.880 | And if you don't want to be noticed, you want to sit along the side out of eyeline.
00:45:30.440 | That was a very, very fast overview of I wish I had visuals.
00:45:34.800 | I was a very fast overview of that section.
00:45:37.480 | Yeah, there are visuals in the book.
00:45:38.880 | So check that out.
00:45:39.920 | Last total tangent.
00:45:41.720 | You live in Austin.
00:45:42.880 | I do. I got three questions.
00:45:44.760 | Best meal, Loro.
00:45:46.880 | OK, best place for a drink.
00:45:50.320 | I don't really drink.
00:45:52.000 | So I would say Merritt coffee.
00:45:54.160 | Merritt. OK, perfect.
00:45:55.240 | I didn't say what kind of drink. That's right.
00:45:57.440 | And then and then an atypical thing that someone should see or do in Austin.
00:46:00.880 | Oh, yeah. Stand up paddle boarding along Lady Bird Lake.
00:46:03.840 | People forget that we have like a ton of water sports here.
00:46:06.400 | I know people think of Texas is dry, but stand up paddle boarding
00:46:09.240 | or running along Lady Bird Lake. Oh, the best.
00:46:12.040 | Yeah, perfect. So I always like to ask that.
00:46:15.240 | You mentioned that there are some files and scripts
00:46:18.800 | related to cues that you want to give listeners.
00:46:21.360 | Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
00:46:23.080 | Yeah, sure. So if you go to science of people dot com slash charisma,
00:46:26.680 | you can actually take the official charisma diagnostic.
00:46:30.040 | So we talked about earlier, how do we know for warmer competent?
00:46:33.160 | I have a free diagnostic.
00:46:34.480 | You can take it as many times as you want.
00:46:36.320 | I also have a bunch of the bonus material in there.
00:46:38.360 | So if you go to science, you'll dot com slash charisma, take the official quiz
00:46:41.680 | and bonus, have someone in your life take it as you.
00:46:45.200 | This is a great way to self check.
00:46:47.280 | You might think you come across as highly warm or highly competent.
00:46:50.480 | But what does your colleague say? What does your partner say?
00:46:52.840 | So screenshot your results and then have them take it as you
00:46:56.200 | and screenshot the results they got for you.
00:46:58.160 | It is a super interesting self check.
00:47:00.160 | I'm literally going to ask my wife to do that right after this.
00:47:03.800 | And like people I work with.
00:47:05.440 | OK, so the book's out.
00:47:06.800 | You can get it wherever books are.
00:47:08.600 | Where can people go to learn more about you and everything you're doing online?
00:47:12.280 | Yes. And I also read The Audible and I bring a lot of vocal power to that.
00:47:16.600 | So if you are a listener, please go check that out.
00:47:19.280 | And then science of people dot com is where we have all of our articles.
00:47:23.280 | And you also can check out my YouTube channel where I break down cues of
00:47:26.680 | Justin Bieber, The Rock, Princess Diana, Britney Spears.
00:47:30.160 | I have a little fun with what I couldn't get away with in the book.
00:47:32.800 | So if you want some cues breakdowns, that's my YouTube channel at Vanessa Van Edwards.
00:47:36.840 | This has been awesome.
00:47:38.840 | Thank you so much for being here.
00:47:40.640 | I really appreciate it.
00:47:41.720 | Oh, Chris, you're the best.
00:47:42.880 | And thanks, everyone, for listening.
00:47:44.200 | That was that close voice.
00:47:47.120 | That was the close voice. Yeah.
00:47:48.280 | I'm going to leave that in.
00:47:50.800 | We did it.
00:47:52.520 | I really hope you enjoyed this episode.
00:47:56.880 | Thank you so much for listening.
00:47:58.680 | If you haven't already left a rating and a review for the show
00:48:01.520 | in Apple Podcasts or Spotify, I would really appreciate it.
00:48:04.960 | And if you have any feedback on the show, questions for me or just want to say hi,
00:48:08.960 | I'm Chris at AllTheHacks.com or @Hutchins on Twitter.
00:48:13.080 | That's it for this week. I'll see you next week.
00:48:31.080 | I want to tell you about another podcast I love that goes deep on all things money.
00:48:35.280 | That means everything from money hacks to wealth building to early retirement.
00:48:39.040 | It's called The Personal Finance Podcast, and it's much more about
00:48:42.760 | building generational wealth and spending your money on the things
00:48:46.040 | you value than it is about clipping coupons to save a dollar.
00:48:49.160 | It's hosted by my good friend, Andrew, who truly believes that everyone
00:48:53.200 | in this world can build wealth.
00:48:54.720 | And his passion and excitement are what make this show so entertaining.
00:48:58.840 | I know because I was a guest on the show in December 2022.
00:49:02.400 | But recently, I listened to an episode where Andrew shared 16 money
00:49:06.640 | stats that will blow your mind.
00:49:08.360 | And it was so crazy to learn things like 35% of millennials
00:49:11.920 | are not participating in their employer's retirement plan.
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00:49:18.360 | The Personal Finance Podcast has something for everyone.
00:49:21.360 | It's filled with so many tips and tactics and hacks
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00:49:26.920 | So I highly recommend you check it out.
00:49:28.720 | Just search for The Personal Finance Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
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