ATHLLC8077854605

00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)

00:00:02.240 | - Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks,

00:00:05.080 | a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.

00:00:07.720 | I'm your host, Chris Hutchins,

00:00:08.880 | and joining me today is entrepreneur, author,

00:00:11.200 | and friend, Noah Kagan.

00:00:13.020 | If you don't know Noah, he runs a company called AppSumo,

00:00:15.840 | which is actually the seventh million dollar business

00:00:18.160 | he's started, and he adamantly believes

00:00:20.520 | that anyone that puts their mind to it

00:00:22.240 | can launch a million dollar business.

00:00:24.200 | But not just that, he thinks you can do it in a weekend,

00:00:27.000 | and is gonna lay out the framework for us today.

00:00:30.180 | That's not to say you all need to plan

00:00:31.720 | on quitting your jobs right now,

00:00:33.260 | but it is such an incredible time in the world

00:00:35.360 | for entrepreneurship, and even if it's just

00:00:37.600 | a new side hustle you might wanna start,

00:00:39.480 | I feel like the opportunities are endless.

00:00:42.120 | So today we're gonna cover what idea you might wanna start,

00:00:45.440 | how to get over some of the things that might hold you back,

00:00:48.240 | all the steps you actually need to follow

00:00:50.360 | to launch a business in 48 hours,

00:00:52.800 | how to apply these lessons to an existing job,

00:00:54.840 | even if you're not ready to be an entrepreneur yet,

00:00:57.160 | and a lot more.

00:00:58.500 | I am so excited for this conversation,

00:01:00.360 | and honestly I wish I would've had it a few decades ago.

00:01:03.700 | So let's jump in right after this.

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00:02:43.780 | Noah, thanks for being here.

00:02:47.720 | - Chris, thank you for having me.

00:02:49.320 | - So from the title of the book,

00:02:51.160 | it seems you might think that starting a company

00:02:52.960 | is the best way to build wealth.

00:02:54.680 | Is that true?

00:02:55.720 | Did you always think that, if it is?

00:02:57.280 | - Coming in hot.

00:02:58.400 | I love it.

00:02:59.220 | Let's just look at data.

00:03:00.480 | So do you put your money in the stock market at all?

00:03:02.760 | - I do.

00:03:03.580 | - Yeah, like a great return on the S&P 500 is like 10%.

00:03:06.440 | - Wow.

00:03:07.280 | Yeah, if I could lock in 10%, boy, would I be happy.

00:03:09.920 | - If you could do that, right?

00:03:10.920 | But if you look at the data since 1900,

00:03:12.320 | that's what you get at around 10 to 12% a year.

00:03:14.800 | Then if you look at housing, maybe it appreciates,

00:03:17.040 | but generally a house, give or take,

00:03:18.320 | will do 5% to 7% return.

00:03:20.280 | Now, I'll just give you an example.

00:03:21.600 | With AppSumo, I put in $50 to start it,

00:03:23.840 | and last year I made $3.3 million.

00:03:25.540 | And I'm not saying that everyone can do that within a year,

00:03:29.680 | but over some time, the returns and upside

00:03:31.760 | of entrepreneurship are unlimited,

00:03:33.440 | while a lot of the costs are much smaller.

00:03:36.320 | And so, it's kind of maybe something I've thought about

00:03:38.240 | for a lot of people.

00:03:39.080 | It's like, you can work your butt trying to get clean

00:03:41.360 | an attic, and then literally my house yesterday flooded,

00:03:44.880 | a real estate house I have,

00:03:46.760 | or you can just start your own business.

00:03:48.760 | There's different problems, but at least the upside

00:03:50.640 | and the influence of it are much higher.

00:03:53.280 | - Did you always think of it this way?

00:03:54.280 | I think you and I both share a similar background.

00:03:57.440 | Early careers all in startup land in Silicon Valley

00:04:01.400 | seemed like building tech companies

00:04:03.160 | is the way you make money,

00:04:04.280 | and then we probably had other friends that made money,

00:04:06.580 | and then we're like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

00:04:07.600 | maybe the way money is real estate.

00:04:09.500 | Maybe real estate is how we make money.

00:04:10.840 | I keep hearing that this is the best thing ever.

00:04:13.040 | I have both FOMO about not buying more real estate

00:04:16.840 | and deep satisfaction only owning my house.

00:04:19.640 | - My next book is called "Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and Stepdad."

00:04:22.600 | And (laughs) it's like there's another dad

00:04:26.080 | that no one ever talked about that was just like,

00:04:27.980 | I don't know why these guys are working so hard.

00:04:30.000 | I think what's interesting, we talked before

00:04:31.920 | about my YouTube channel.

00:04:33.860 | One of the coolest things is that there's so many

00:04:35.560 | different ways of getting rich.

00:04:36.920 | And when you grew up, I grew up a few miles from Apple.

00:04:39.120 | My father sold copiers, and my stepfather

00:04:41.760 | was a computer programmer.

00:04:43.440 | And I thought that's just the way to have money.

00:04:46.520 | But I realized, wow, there's so many other ways,

00:04:49.040 | like fruit selling, (laughs)

00:04:51.740 | basements, this guy Larry Janeski.

00:04:53.320 | Michael Hudger did ships.

00:04:54.860 | Paul Mitchell did hair care.

00:04:57.160 | Hair care.

00:04:58.160 | And yes, there is a lot of money in the internet, too,

00:05:00.560 | which just came out 24 years ago, if you think about it.

00:05:03.520 | And that always gets me so excited,

00:05:06.160 | is that there's so many different ways

00:05:07.280 | for people to find what they're interested in.

00:05:08.760 | And look, if you have a day job,

00:05:10.840 | I think that's even better,

00:05:11.760 | 'cause now you have an investor, which is your employer,

00:05:14.240 | to now explore all these other options

00:05:16.120 | that can create unlimited wealth for you.

00:05:17.800 | - And do you think this is a path for everyone,

00:05:19.560 | or how do you think about building companies

00:05:22.780 | and starting side hustles for someone

00:05:25.840 | who maybe never thought that was for them?

00:05:27.760 | - Most people wanna be time millionaires.

00:05:30.240 | I would say that's universal.

00:05:31.400 | And most people would like to be a millionaire, or beyond.

00:05:34.680 | And they actually realize that you probably need less money

00:05:36.920 | to live a very satisfied life.

00:05:38.000 | That's why in the book I've talked about

00:05:39.080 | the freedom number, 'cause you realize

00:05:40.120 | that number's actually a lot less than you think.

00:05:42.040 | What I've recognized, though, is that most people

00:05:43.960 | think it's this big, scary thing.

00:05:45.440 | Like take my brother, for instance, he's a doctor.

00:05:47.240 | So he went to school for 10 years,

00:05:48.440 | he got a certificate to do his stuff.

00:05:50.040 | And what's crazy about entrepreneurship,

00:05:51.520 | you don't need a certificate. (laughs)

00:05:53.280 | Everyone has permission.

00:05:54.420 | And you don't even have to be tall.

00:05:55.560 | You know, I'm only 5'10".

00:05:57.020 | You could be really short, or you could be super tall,

00:05:59.200 | or you could be anything.

00:06:00.040 | And I think that's just so amazing

00:06:01.740 | how accessible it can be.

00:06:03.520 | And the reality, though, is that we create

00:06:05.640 | this big, scary monster of,

00:06:06.960 | well, I've gotta be a talkative person,

00:06:08.320 | or I've gotta go be on Twitter,

00:06:09.960 | or I've gotta go sell, and that's just not the case.

00:06:12.760 | But you do have to think, wow, I could maybe do this.

00:06:15.880 | Let me see how I can maybe change my life in a weekend,

00:06:18.920 | which I would say is possible for everyone out there.

00:06:20.840 | And especially if you have a day job.

00:06:23.120 | I don't know if you've ever been fired, Chris.

00:06:25.040 | You ever been fired? - I have.

00:06:26.320 | - And I've been fired twice.

00:06:28.420 | And thank you, Mark, and thank you, Matt Kohler.

00:06:31.160 | Thank you, Aaron Patzer.

00:06:33.000 | And the beauty of getting fired is the moment I realize

00:06:36.460 | that I'm not in control of my livelihood.

00:06:39.040 | These two people at two companies,

00:06:40.840 | Facebook and Mint, which I was early at,

00:06:43.000 | I decided that I'm not good to be there anymore.

00:06:45.760 | So it really sparked with me.

00:06:47.720 | Then got early on, like, wow, if that could happen,

00:06:50.680 | I need to protect myself.

00:06:52.200 | And so you can create a business.

00:06:53.600 | It could be a flower shop.

00:06:55.080 | And then keep your day job as well.

00:06:56.400 | So at AppSumo, where I work, we have this lady, Amy,

00:07:00.480 | she has a flower shop and a hair salon.

00:07:02.600 | And she's also our head of customer support.

00:07:04.600 | (laughs)

00:07:05.560 | You have Nick Christensen,

00:07:06.640 | who has a teeth whitening clinic up in Dallas.

00:07:09.840 | And he leads our growth team.

00:07:11.680 | And so it doesn't mean you have to quit your day job.

00:07:13.400 | Ideally, maybe have both.

00:07:14.640 | At least have that option available to you.

00:07:16.540 | - I think, and maybe it's Silicon Valley,

00:07:18.380 | but it felt to me for so long,

00:07:20.440 | maybe until this podcast, that starting a company was like,

00:07:24.280 | I'm gonna start a thing that's all-consuming,

00:07:26.240 | that's gonna be everything to me,

00:07:27.760 | and I'm gonna work a million hours a day

00:07:29.480 | and have thousands of employees, or it's a failure.

00:07:32.120 | - I love the line, like,

00:07:32.960 | don't trade your nine-to-five for a five-to-nine, right?

00:07:36.560 | The whole point of being an entrepreneur

00:07:37.680 | is that you can then become a time millionaire as well.

00:07:39.960 | Like, I'm going to Spain in two weeks to have a family.

00:07:43.720 | And that's a lot, you know,

00:07:45.160 | if I had a boss who was like, no, you can't travel,

00:07:47.520 | you gotta come to the office, you gotta,

00:07:48.680 | I don't know, but entrepreneurship

00:07:49.800 | gives me that affordability.

00:07:51.400 | And with business, the greatest part about it,

00:07:54.120 | which people don't recognize is that, yes,

00:07:55.700 | it does take some effort to get started.

00:07:56.960 | Yes, you have to find something people are excited

00:07:58.340 | to give you money for,

00:07:59.520 | but you can ultimately spend most of your time,

00:08:02.160 | if not all of it, in just the areas you like.

00:08:04.700 | And guess what?

00:08:05.540 | There's people that like doing customer support,

00:08:07.080 | like Amy, which I don't know how she does it.

00:08:08.480 | Shout out, Amy, I love you.

00:08:10.100 | And there's people who like doing operational stuff.

00:08:12.880 | Dusty, Vanessa, thank you guys for doing that.

00:08:14.840 | And they're happy there,

00:08:15.960 | and they get to live their dream lives,

00:08:17.240 | and that is available.

00:08:18.560 | It's not such this, like,

00:08:19.680 | oh, I've got to spend all night

00:08:21.000 | and don't have any free time around it.

00:08:22.960 | That's what this stuff enables you

00:08:24.120 | to have that option available.

00:08:25.640 | - And you said the freedom number people need

00:08:27.160 | is a lot smaller than you think.

00:08:28.900 | - Yeah, for me, it always seemed risky,

00:08:30.560 | this freedom number, that way I realized it,

00:08:32.400 | and I've noticed that a lot of other entrepreneurs have had,

00:08:35.080 | it always seems so risky to have these day jobs,

00:08:36.800 | like I did at Intel.

00:08:38.000 | And then I thought, oh man, entrepreneurship,

00:08:39.520 | I don't know how much I have to make.

00:08:41.540 | And then I recognized, like,

00:08:42.380 | well, how much do I need to really be able

00:08:43.760 | to do the thing I want to do and have freedom?

00:08:45.440 | And it was way less than I expected.

00:08:47.400 | And it really came down to kind of three categories,

00:08:48.960 | which is like living, entertainment, and savings,

00:08:51.520 | or living, food, savings.

00:08:53.960 | And for me, it was $3,000.

00:08:55.680 | And when I was at my day job, I was like,

00:08:58.960 | well, if I can get the side hustle to that number,

00:09:00.600 | then I can quit.

00:09:02.020 | And I never encourage people

00:09:03.440 | to actually go take a risky thing.

00:09:05.240 | It seemed risky to quit your job

00:09:06.240 | to try to hopefully start a business.

00:09:07.880 | It's not what I want people to do.

00:09:08.920 | And when you realize how much smaller that number is

00:09:11.020 | than you expect, you realize it's also more attainable.

00:09:14.480 | And so I've twice quit jobs and then gone on

00:09:16.880 | once I hit my $3,000 freedom number.

00:09:18.800 | - And so for you, that's $3,000.

00:09:19.880 | But do you think that gets a lot harder as people age,

00:09:22.480 | have more responsibility, family?

00:09:24.760 | - Yeah, it just takes longer.

00:09:26.160 | Everyone has their own number based on their own lifestyle.

00:09:28.600 | So today, I think my credit card, I don't know.

00:09:32.080 | By the way, the cool part about eventually getting money

00:09:33.920 | is that you don't have to worry about budgeting

00:09:35.560 | or worry about having enough for retirement.

00:09:37.080 | You don't even have to think about it.

00:09:38.440 | And I think that's available for everyone.

00:09:40.440 | But I just had to do a CNBC show.

00:09:42.440 | I think my credit card bill, with all things,

00:09:44.560 | is like $25,000 a month.

00:09:46.840 | So it goes up over time, but then, obviously,

00:09:49.880 | I've built up businesses and stuff like that.

00:09:51.600 | But what people are trying to do, if you have kids,

00:09:53.760 | and I've noticed there's a guy named Jake

00:09:55.720 | who ran Million Dollar Weekend.

00:09:56.640 | He's got three kids, he's got a wife, they got a house.

00:09:59.960 | So it's not something you can just quit overnight.

00:10:01.680 | But if you never get started,

00:10:03.520 | then he's never even gonna get to that number.

00:10:04.880 | I think for him, my guess, I think it was around $10,000.

00:10:08.120 | But you have to get started

00:10:08.960 | so that you can even get to that point.

00:10:10.080 | Same as I got started with AppSumo.

00:10:11.760 | I started with a weekend and I made my first $12,

00:10:14.320 | my first sale.

00:10:15.160 | - And so, weekend, why a weekend?

00:10:17.440 | Why not a week, why not a month?

00:10:19.040 | Why do people need to figure this out so quickly?

00:10:21.180 | - You have a family, right?

00:10:22.080 | You have two kids.

00:10:22.920 | And you have, I mean, you have this podcast,

00:10:24.440 | but you have a job and you have a wife to take care of.

00:10:26.320 | Most people don't have a lot of time, right?

00:10:28.440 | It's hard.

00:10:29.400 | And you already got your obligations,

00:10:31.240 | you got commitments, and you're like,

00:10:32.480 | maybe it's just easier to put in the stock market.

00:10:34.160 | But what everyone has is a weekend.

00:10:36.460 | Everyone has at least one weekend they can do something.

00:10:38.880 | Right, maybe not every single weekend,

00:10:40.120 | which is everyone's got 52 of them, but maybe one a year.

00:10:42.720 | And because we don't have as much time available,

00:10:46.320 | how do we find what's just the essence of getting started?

00:10:50.040 | And if you can do that in a very limited time,

00:10:52.040 | which creates a lot more creativity,

00:10:53.400 | I do believe limitation instills creation.

00:10:56.880 | And when you have this limitation, you're like,

00:10:58.760 | well, I'm not gonna mess around.

00:11:00.320 | And I can't goof around and buy a bunch of ads,

00:11:02.240 | or I can't, I don't have time to make a YouTube channel

00:11:03.860 | because I only got a weekend to get this done.

00:11:05.560 | And especially someone like yourself,

00:11:06.960 | if you were in that tech job

00:11:08.440 | and had a family where you are today,

00:11:10.140 | you don't have a lot of time for that.

00:11:11.320 | And so how do we focus on just the things that matter?

00:11:13.940 | And what I have found through myself

00:11:15.720 | starting businesses in a weekend and through others,

00:11:17.980 | this 48 hour time period is the best window

00:11:20.540 | to change your life.

00:11:22.240 | - And how far do you have to get?

00:11:23.780 | I look at this podcast as an example

00:11:25.560 | that's now my full-time job and my wife's full-time job.

00:11:29.040 | But when I started it, it was like,

00:11:31.160 | it was just a side project that I liked.

00:11:33.040 | It cost money and did not make any money at the beginning.

00:11:35.960 | You could argue I maybe started it in a weekend,

00:11:37.980 | but I didn't have those ambitions.

00:11:40.080 | Where does stuff like that fit into this?

00:11:41.880 | - How long did it take for you to quit your day?

00:11:43.840 | Did you quit your day job when you started this

00:11:45.880 | or did you?

00:11:46.720 | - It probably took, I started the podcast in May, 2021,

00:11:51.120 | and I quit my day job in December, 2022.

00:11:54.240 | - And how much were you making at the pod

00:11:55.880 | that you felt comfortable to quit your day job?

00:11:57.920 | - It crossed to a point that it replaced my work income.

00:12:01.280 | - That's your freedom number.

00:12:02.600 | And so the reality is that in a weekend,

00:12:06.320 | you could find out if something that people want.

00:12:09.160 | And then the other part of success,

00:12:10.560 | and you asked about billionaires,

00:12:11.720 | which I've interviewed a lot on my YouTube channel

00:12:13.080 | and worked for them directly,

00:12:14.720 | is that you become a billionaire,

00:12:15.960 | but you have to do compounded action

00:12:17.900 | over a long period of time.

00:12:19.600 | And most people are quitting too soon.

00:12:21.240 | So you have to initially find something

00:12:22.320 | people actually really want.

00:12:23.980 | And then you do have to stick with it

00:12:25.180 | for some period of time where like at AppSumo,

00:12:27.400 | I don't think I made my first million dollars a year

00:12:29.500 | salaried until year seven.

00:12:31.320 | I paid myself, I think $0 first year, 40,000 next year.

00:12:35.000 | And frankly, if I would've just stayed at Intel

00:12:36.760 | or any of these other jobs,

00:12:37.680 | I probably would've made more most of the time,

00:12:39.240 | but I kept sticking with it,

00:12:40.640 | kept having good results promising.

00:12:42.160 | And then over time, it was like,

00:12:43.000 | wow, now we actually have enough.

00:12:44.040 | I can take a little bit for myself.

00:12:45.160 | And then eventually it was like a lot for myself,

00:12:47.480 | but you have to start and then you have to stick.

00:12:48.920 | And you were a great example of that.

00:12:51.200 | - So the goal of the weekend

00:12:52.040 | isn't to kind of fast track your way to millionaire status.

00:12:55.400 | It's to make sure you validated

00:12:57.520 | that the thing you're working on

00:12:58.600 | could really be big enough

00:12:59.760 | to be the thing you want to do full-time.

00:13:01.720 | - It's recognizing that you can create

00:13:03.520 | a million dollar opportunity for yourself

00:13:04.920 | in a very short period of time.

00:13:06.380 | And I think in 10 years,

00:13:07.680 | I believe someone will make a million dollars in a weekend,

00:13:09.620 | legitimately, not like through drug dealing

00:13:11.280 | or something shady.

00:13:12.120 | - Or that app that was like $20,000 or something.

00:13:14.880 | - It could be that.

00:13:15.920 | You could sell pinball machines.

00:13:17.320 | This is actually, you could totally validate a pin.

00:13:18.720 | I love pinballs.

00:13:19.560 | I got an arcade at my house.

00:13:21.560 | You could sell $15,000 pinballs.

00:13:23.400 | And I walk people through business models

00:13:25.000 | and such in the book, one minute business models,

00:13:26.720 | 'cause you don't have a lot of time.

00:13:28.240 | To make a million dollars selling 15,000 pinballs,

00:13:30.320 | depending on what the costs are like,

00:13:32.560 | maybe you'll need to sell 100 or two.

00:13:34.240 | It's not a bad business over the next few years.

00:13:36.440 | - Yeah.

00:13:37.260 | - It was actually pretty crazy.

00:13:38.100 | Do you know Stern Pinball?

00:13:38.920 | - Yeah.

00:13:39.760 | - So let's say you love arcades.

00:13:40.680 | And this is the thing, again,

00:13:41.520 | you can make money in different ways.

00:13:42.520 | Maybe it's a podcast show.

00:13:43.480 | Maybe it's videos.

00:13:44.920 | Maybe it's lawn care.

00:13:45.900 | Maybe it's games.

00:13:47.440 | And Stern Pinball,

00:13:49.080 | which I don't know if they do a billion dollars in sales,

00:13:50.980 | but definitely in the tens, if not hundreds of millions.

00:13:52.880 | It's the number one pinball maker.

00:13:54.520 | They showed a video about how they make pinball.

00:13:56.080 | And it's the same stuff I teach in Million Dollar Weekend,

00:13:58.440 | which I thought was so unique.

00:14:00.200 | Is that instead of building this whole pinball thing

00:14:01.800 | and making sure people like it,

00:14:03.280 | they literally take a piece of wood,

00:14:05.260 | and then they, pretty much the same day,

00:14:06.640 | they put pieces of metal on the wood,

00:14:08.520 | and they throw a ball at it.

00:14:09.920 | And they see what happens is they throw the ball

00:14:11.460 | at this piece of wood.

00:14:13.040 | And then you realize, wow,

00:14:14.740 | pretty quickly they can see if the game

00:14:16.080 | that they're starting to think of is gonna be interesting.

00:14:17.580 | And that's the same thing you can apply in business,

00:14:19.480 | which is, how can I see if this is something

00:14:21.320 | people really want?

00:14:22.140 | Maybe it's a show.

00:14:23.000 | Maybe it's a pinball game.

00:14:24.560 | Maybe it's gonna be food.

00:14:25.600 | Maybe it's a software product.

00:14:26.520 | Maybe it's lawn care.

00:14:27.600 | So that if I'm gonna work on it for some period of time,

00:14:29.320 | I know that there's at least customers who are excited

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00:16:00.720 | Did you know that someone new gets impacted

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00:17:16.400 | Again, that's allthehacks.com/deleteme.

00:17:20.280 | What's the high-level process someone needs to go through?

00:17:22.960 | I was gonna joke, like, well, it's in the book.

00:17:25.480 | It's a good investment. (laughs)

00:17:27.400 | But no, I'll give it to you for free.

00:17:28.320 | I'll give it to you for free.

00:17:29.240 | So if you have to break it down,

00:17:30.760 | there's three categories of getting

00:17:32.080 | a million-dollar weekend business going,

00:17:33.600 | which is starting it, building it, and growing it,

00:17:36.080 | and I would say there's so many business books out there,

00:17:39.200 | and especially for a lot of your audience.

00:17:40.360 | You have really good-looking audience, that's a fact.

00:17:42.960 | You have a lot of six-figure audience,

00:17:44.480 | that a lot of have kids,

00:17:45.400 | and they're probably happy with the S&P 500 12%,

00:17:48.400 | or maybe they got crypto lucky,

00:17:50.100 | or they bought some silly NFT moon cats,

00:17:52.280 | which I didn't, lost a lot of money on.

00:17:54.340 | I do think most people wanna have more money,

00:17:57.700 | and what I've seen from it,

00:17:59.600 | there's start it, build it, and grow it.

00:18:00.720 | There's a woman who was at Warby Parker named McKinsey,

00:18:02.640 | and she dreamed the same thing.

00:18:04.120 | So the first part, though,

00:18:05.500 | is how do you get good at starting and asking?

00:18:07.760 | Those are the two biggest things

00:18:08.800 | holding people back from success

00:18:10.520 | in really entrepreneurship, but also in life.

00:18:12.680 | I would say this book is almost as much self-help

00:18:15.060 | as it is start a business in a weekend.

00:18:17.000 | So how do you practice starting right now?

00:18:19.440 | 'Cause the more that you can get started,

00:18:22.040 | and let's say you wanna do a podcast.

00:18:23.520 | Let's put an episode out today.

00:18:24.960 | I have a YouTube channel, a million subscribers.

00:18:26.640 | My first video that I did three years ago

00:18:28.880 | was with an iPhone 10, and me shirtless,

00:18:32.320 | and it was just a video talking about COVID.

00:18:34.320 | Fast forward, today, each video costs $20,000 to make,

00:18:37.320 | but I got started, and then over time,

00:18:40.000 | I was able to add maybe a videographer,

00:18:41.680 | or a little better camera, or a little better lighting,

00:18:43.840 | a little better scripts, a little better thumbnails,

00:18:45.720 | and you stick with it, you keep improving it,

00:18:47.600 | and then now, the videos are more polished and so forth,

00:18:50.360 | but you have to practice how do you get started right now.

00:18:52.040 | Second thing is asking.

00:18:53.840 | Everything in life is asking, like your wife.

00:18:55.280 | You had to ask her to marry you, right?

00:18:58.680 | You have to ask for a raise.

00:18:59.680 | You have to ask for things,

00:19:00.680 | and so people have a negative connotation of asking,

00:19:03.520 | and then they have this fear of rejection,

00:19:05.440 | this really strong fear of, wow,

00:19:08.060 | I'm not good enough, or they don't like me,

00:19:09.800 | and so when we can do that in silly things,

00:19:12.440 | like McKinsey, so she dreamed of having her own business,

00:19:15.760 | and so she loved connection,

00:19:17.800 | and so she wanted to start a greetings card company,

00:19:21.240 | and it's called marymakery.com.

00:19:22.720 | I gotta give her a shout out.

00:19:23.920 | She's Red Million Dollar Weekend,

00:19:25.560 | and she emailed some of her coworkers at Warby Parker.

00:19:28.480 | She said, "I wanna do a greeting card.

00:19:30.040 | "Does anyone wanna buy some of my greeting cards?"

00:19:32.400 | And she asked, and the beauty of asking

00:19:34.400 | is that you can get what you want.

00:19:35.720 | If you don't ask, you can't get,

00:19:37.600 | and you didn't have to build a big website.

00:19:39.440 | You didn't have to buy a domain.

00:19:40.480 | You didn't have to do anything,

00:19:41.320 | but you practice this in small things,

00:19:43.000 | and then in her first year of sales so far,

00:19:44.940 | she's done $50,000 in greeting cards.

00:19:47.000 | Greeting cards, and by the way,

00:19:49.400 | Hallmark has a TV show or a channel,

00:19:52.080 | and they started the exact same way.

00:19:53.160 | I think people never make their million dollars

00:19:55.120 | 'cause they don't make their first dollar,

00:19:56.520 | and they're not making their first dollar

00:19:57.360 | 'cause they don't get started,

00:19:58.180 | and they don't realize it can be fun

00:19:59.020 | and you can't get started today.

00:20:00.180 | The second section of the book is like,

00:20:01.580 | okay, you started things.

00:20:02.720 | You feel good about yourself.

00:20:03.620 | You got momentum.

00:20:04.460 | You got the skills.

00:20:05.280 | Now, how do you build it?

00:20:06.720 | And so I would say there's kind of three pieces of that.

00:20:08.840 | How do you find ideas?

00:20:10.320 | And there's more than enough,

00:20:11.520 | and we can go through some today.

00:20:13.160 | How do you make sure it's a million dollar opportunity?

00:20:14.800 | How do you make sure that there's a business model there?

00:20:16.800 | And then the part three of the book is grow it,

00:20:18.500 | which is like, can we really get customers?

00:20:20.760 | And then how do you take it to 1,000,

00:20:22.820 | 10,000, million dollars, and beyond?

00:20:25.960 | So let's take an example of,

00:20:29.760 | for me, I've found that there's three ways to get business,

00:20:32.000 | but let me just show people in the audience

00:20:33.400 | one thing right now.

00:20:34.280 | Let's just do a fun one.

00:20:35.560 | So for people listening, text someone right now,

00:20:38.960 | "Hey, what kind of business do you think I would start?"

00:20:42.320 | And that's an ask, and that's a start, right?

00:20:45.040 | You're starting something right now.

00:20:45.880 | You're doing it, and guess what?

00:20:46.720 | You're gonna get a result.

00:20:48.000 | And that's a free business idea

00:20:49.040 | that you can already do for yourself.

00:20:50.420 | And one of the best ways to think about business ideas

00:20:52.480 | is what have you gotten paid for in the past,

00:20:54.360 | or who do you have influence around?

00:20:56.080 | Who do you have in your zone of influence in your network?

00:20:58.520 | Make it easy on yourself.

00:21:00.040 | So I'll give you three other business ideas

00:21:01.240 | in three minutes in three ways.

00:21:02.480 | So number one, just think about your day-to-day

00:21:04.620 | and break it out, breakfast, lunch, dinner.

00:21:06.160 | Think of something that annoyed you.

00:21:07.640 | That's a business opportunity.

00:21:08.520 | Every problem is a business opportunity.

00:21:10.640 | The other one, number two,

00:21:11.680 | think about something you spend money on.

00:21:13.000 | Look at your credit card bill.

00:21:14.320 | I was really annoyed with DocuSign.

00:21:16.800 | I keep signing up for new accounts so I don't have to pay.

00:21:19.400 | So I was like, "I'm tired of that."

00:21:21.040 | And so two weeks ago, I read "Million Dollar Weekend,"

00:21:24.080 | and I followed the process, and I made $3,000 in one day.

00:21:27.000 | And now in the next 30 days,

00:21:28.160 | I'm delivering a DocuSign alternative.

00:21:29.640 | I don't have a website.

00:21:31.080 | I don't have a domain.

00:21:31.920 | I don't know what we should call it.

00:21:32.800 | If people have ideas, let me know.

00:21:34.660 | But I have a million dollar business opportunity.

00:21:37.020 | And then the third one is what have you avoided doing?

00:21:39.980 | What's on your to-do list that you have not done?

00:21:42.180 | There are other ways in the book.

00:21:43.020 | There's six other ways, but I'm giving some quick ones

00:21:45.420 | that people can start thinking about themselves.

00:21:47.500 | Now the two other high pieces, and again,

00:21:48.860 | if you go to milliondollarweekend.com,

00:21:49.900 | it's super broken out there.

00:21:51.700 | But next up, is it a million dollar opportunity?

00:21:53.380 | Is there at least a million dollars of money being spent?

00:21:55.740 | And then what does the business model look like

00:21:57.220 | for you to actually make a million bucks?

00:21:58.900 | And so I was doing lawn care

00:22:01.220 | because that's what people told me to start as a business.

00:22:02.920 | I wanted to prove how to do it.

00:22:04.360 | Now, if you do lawn care

00:22:05.600 | and you're selling one-off lawn care,

00:22:06.920 | you have to, let's say 50 bucks a lawn.

00:22:09.560 | That's a lot of lawns.

00:22:11.160 | So by just having a one-minute business model,

00:22:12.840 | it's like, all right,

00:22:13.680 | well, I need to sell monthly subscriptions.

00:22:15.260 | And what I aim for in the business model and in general

00:22:17.640 | is how hard does this actually look?

00:22:19.240 | Like, do I have to sell 5,000 different lawn care things?

00:22:22.040 | That's tough.

00:22:23.360 | Now, next up, you have the idea.

00:22:24.880 | You've done the typical check in the business model.

00:22:26.840 | You have to see if you can actually get customers for it.

00:22:28.840 | And I always recommend three customers in 48 hours.

00:22:31.500 | I found that if you cannot get three,

00:22:33.220 | you're not gonna be able to get beyond that

00:22:34.460 | after the weekend.

00:22:35.640 | And there's three ways you can do it.

00:22:36.480 | You can pre-sell it.

00:22:37.920 | You can post it on marketplaces.

00:22:39.280 | So you can post it on Etsy, Craigslist,

00:22:41.040 | indie hackers, Reddit, things like that,

00:22:42.540 | where there's people that are looking to pay.

00:22:44.300 | Or the third way is landing pages and ads.

00:22:46.580 | I love pre-selling 'cause it's the most direct.

00:22:48.380 | And you could do it in a non-salesy way.

00:22:50.820 | You can just get feedback from people

00:22:52.420 | that you think you can help.

00:22:53.660 | That's pretty detailed about it.

00:22:54.640 | And then grow it is how do you set up your social media?

00:22:58.100 | How do you set up your email list,

00:22:59.020 | which everyone should do?

00:23:00.220 | And then setting up your growth machine

00:23:01.900 | to make this stuff on repeat.

00:23:03.540 | That's the million dollar weekend at a high level.

00:23:05.020 | And you have someone like McKenzie

00:23:06.740 | who quit a very high-paying job.

00:23:09.020 | I did not recommend that.

00:23:10.580 | And in one year was able to get to around $50,000.

00:23:13.240 | And I have a friend, he works at Amazon.

00:23:15.380 | He makes 400K, which is very common.

00:23:17.640 | I mean, okay, 400K is a lot.

00:23:19.100 | But let's just say 120K or something like that.

00:23:21.740 | And he started a side hustle.

00:23:23.580 | And in his first year, he made a thousand bucks,

00:23:26.420 | which is great.

00:23:27.660 | And he quit.

00:23:28.900 | And the question that I always think about for myself is,

00:23:31.740 | what is the 10 years from now Noah gonna thank me for?

00:23:34.820 | And for him, if he would have stuck with that,

00:23:36.540 | this was a few years ago now,

00:23:38.220 | I promise that for him and for everyone out there,

00:23:40.820 | if you can find something that actually works,

00:23:42.520 | which it was working for him,

00:23:43.940 | he was making content about food.

00:23:46.140 | You know, these like food cooking shows?

00:23:47.620 | - Yeah.

00:23:48.460 | - If he would have stuck with it, it was working.

00:23:49.900 | You know, five years from now,

00:23:50.740 | that could have easily surpassed the amount of revenue

00:23:52.740 | that he's getting in his day job.

00:23:53.700 | And you keep both, or he can have that option

00:23:56.020 | to do that full-time if he wants.

00:23:57.460 | - I found firsthand, you don't have to give it up, right?

00:24:00.900 | I was working for 18 months while doing this.

00:24:03.700 | And when you talked about pre-selling, it was interesting.

00:24:06.940 | There are some businesses like what we're doing,

00:24:09.100 | we're selling, you know, the person who might pay the bill

00:24:11.740 | isn't the person, the audience.

00:24:13.620 | But what I did when I started was I made a trailer

00:24:16.340 | and I was like, will anyone subscribe to this podcast

00:24:19.020 | after hearing just the trailer?

00:24:20.900 | I didn't even have to make an episode.

00:24:22.500 | - I love that.

00:24:23.380 | - I recorded a one minute trailer, two minute trailer,

00:24:25.900 | and was like, this is what this show's about.

00:24:28.100 | And fortunately, Apple and Spotify will show you.

00:24:30.180 | Like, did you get followers?

00:24:31.620 | Did people say, I wanna see what happens next?

00:24:33.900 | Give that example.

00:24:34.780 | - So I'm guessing you follow kind of the same playbook

00:24:37.180 | I'm gonna recommend in the book and beyond.

00:24:38.980 | And again, I think people think it's so simple.

00:24:40.860 | They're like, no, but I gotta make it more complicated.

00:24:42.580 | Right, isn't this stuff supposed to be fancy?

00:24:43.820 | It's like, yes, it eventually gets fancy.

00:24:45.780 | Right, like AppSumo now has a 20 person engineering team,

00:24:48.060 | 20 person plus marketing team.

00:24:50.180 | But it starts that you just kind of post it on there

00:24:51.900 | and then you tell some friends

00:24:52.940 | and then you kind of do that a little bit more

00:24:54.180 | and a little bit more.

00:24:55.020 | So there's other parts of the process.

00:24:57.060 | But I think people wanna, not trick,

00:24:59.780 | but make you believe it's much more complicated

00:25:01.420 | and people are further away skill-wise than they think.

00:25:04.020 | And I've seen so many smart people stuck in jobs

00:25:06.860 | that are, if not better than me,

00:25:08.340 | and skilled just as good as me,

00:25:10.060 | they just have been a little bit more afraid than me.

00:25:12.380 | And if they just do some small things today,

00:25:14.480 | I think they'll be shocked at their confidence

00:25:16.260 | and their abilities of what they can actually do.

00:25:17.860 | For yourself with your podcast,

00:25:19.100 | how did you get your first few listeners?

00:25:20.580 | I don't think you just posted it and prayed.

00:25:22.300 | - Basically, I had like six or seven projects

00:25:24.540 | that had email lists.

00:25:25.500 | And I was like, okay, well, when I launched this thing,

00:25:27.020 | I'm just gonna email all these people.

00:25:29.100 | And someone was like, "Well, if you do that,

00:25:30.740 | "they might get upset and report you as spam."

00:25:32.820 | I was like, "Why do you even have a newsletter?"

00:25:33.940 | But they had subscribed and opted into something.

00:25:36.200 | So I felt that was okay. - Exactly.

00:25:38.100 | - And then it started when a friend of mine,

00:25:40.900 | I told him, I was like, "I was thinking of starting a podcast."

00:25:42.800 | He was interviewing me about something random

00:25:44.580 | on his podcast.

00:25:46.100 | And he was like, "Pause."

00:25:48.240 | And then like kind of, he goes,

00:25:49.620 | "All right, I want you to go home

00:25:51.140 | "and record a one-minute trailer.

00:25:53.360 | "And then we'll just splice it in."

00:25:54.980 | And so I spliced in this audio that was like,

00:25:57.020 | "All right, so the podcast is called this."

00:25:59.020 | I only had two days to name this podcast

00:26:02.100 | because he interviewed me about the podcast

00:26:04.620 | and he's like, "I need a name.

00:26:05.740 | "I need you to send me an audio file."

00:26:07.300 | So I was forced, I don't know if it was a weekend,

00:26:09.700 | but I was forced in like 48 hours to name the podcast

00:26:12.420 | and set up a website and create a trailer

00:26:14.760 | and put it up there.

00:26:15.600 | But I hadn't lined up an interview at all.

00:26:18.460 | - Well, I think most people get it wrong

00:26:20.880 | is that that's what they believe they have to do first.

00:26:23.100 | They're like, "All right, well, I need to go learn

00:26:24.220 | "how to even set up a website.

00:26:25.320 | "Now I gotta waste time on that.

00:26:26.420 | "And then I gotta pay for domain.

00:26:27.640 | "And then I need to do this and this and this."

00:26:29.180 | And no, just put out a trailer,

00:26:30.780 | send it to friends and see if anyone subscribes.

00:26:32.780 | If people do, great, now do all these other things.

00:26:35.440 | Most people just do it backwards.

00:26:36.600 | And I think that's been a big misconception.

00:26:38.700 | Like there's a guy, Jake, who read the book

00:26:41.300 | and he has three kids, day job, very common.

00:26:44.340 | He's had the same idea for 24 months.

00:26:46.840 | He wanted to be a good example to his kids.

00:26:48.800 | That's what he told me.

00:26:49.940 | So I read the book and in a weekend,

00:26:51.980 | which he was like, "Yeah, it's worth it."

00:26:54.260 | I asked him what he would tell others.

00:26:55.340 | He's like, "It's just worth it."

00:26:56.660 | He didn't want to wonder what if.

00:26:58.740 | And I thought that was amazing.

00:26:59.780 | And in one weekend, he was able to validate

00:27:02.260 | his golf trips for guys business.

00:27:05.100 | What a unique idea.

00:27:05.940 | And now he has five customers.

00:27:07.100 | They've paid $15,000, I think $3,000 each.

00:27:09.740 | And he's aiming to get eight of them.

00:27:11.460 | And in August of this year,

00:27:13.620 | he's gonna take these guys on a golf trip someplace.

00:27:16.140 | I don't know anything about golf, but some course.

00:27:18.140 | (laughs)

00:27:19.380 | And I think he's gonna make, I don't know, 5K,

00:27:21.260 | give or take for himself.

00:27:22.140 | And guess what?

00:27:22.980 | That's the start.

00:27:23.800 | And that's amazing.

00:27:24.640 | - And he didn't quit his job to do it.

00:27:25.700 | - No, he still has his job.

00:27:26.540 | And I was like, "Do you have any social media?"

00:27:27.660 | He's like, "No."

00:27:28.580 | He's like, "I have my email address."

00:27:30.540 | So I think it was like jakemdw.311.

00:27:34.340 | Anyways, message me and I'll put you in touch with Jake

00:27:35.960 | if you like golf trips and wanna have fun with other dudes.

00:27:38.180 | - Well, one thing you didn't say,

00:27:39.220 | but I know you said in the book 'cause I read it,

00:27:41.380 | was you have to love the thing

00:27:43.460 | and it makes it so much easier.

00:27:44.620 | Maybe you don't have to, but it really helped.

00:27:46.740 | I often tell people they're thinking of ideas.

00:27:48.180 | I'm like, "What would you go do for free?"

00:27:50.740 | Look at your internet history.

00:27:51.860 | Where did you spend all of your time?

00:27:53.620 | If you love going, researching X, Y, and Z,

00:27:56.940 | is there something that you could do there?

00:27:59.200 | And for me, everyone I knew was always like,

00:28:03.620 | "You always do all this homework.

00:28:04.580 | "Can you just tell me the answer?"

00:28:05.980 | Like, I would go to a dinner table and someone's like,

00:28:08.900 | "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you know

00:28:10.040 | "all the credit card stuff.

00:28:11.040 | "Can you just tell me which one to get?

00:28:12.260 | "Or can you just tell me

00:28:13.760 | "what insurance is the right policy?"

00:28:15.620 | And I was like, "Oh, what if I just did all this research

00:28:18.760 | "and shared it?

00:28:19.600 | "Or what if instead of doing the research,

00:28:21.600 | "I interviewed the people while I was doing it

00:28:23.440 | "and shared it?"

00:28:24.260 | And so I think it didn't start with the ambition

00:28:27.620 | of being a full-time job or anything.

00:28:29.420 | It just started as a thing that I liked doing.

00:28:32.340 | And in fact, it actually started

00:28:34.380 | as an idea of a parenting podcast.

00:28:36.860 | And one of my pieces of advice I'll give people,

00:28:39.900 | friends are often too nice.

00:28:41.980 | And so I told people, I was like,

00:28:42.820 | "Oh, I'm gonna start this parenting podcast."

00:28:44.580 | 'Cause right before we had our first child,

00:28:46.700 | I got really into going down all these rabbit holes

00:28:49.140 | of parenting research.

00:28:50.800 | And I was researching strollers.

00:28:53.060 | I think that I have the most comprehensive

00:28:54.820 | stroller comparison database and spreadsheet

00:28:57.400 | that exists out in the world.

00:28:59.220 | It's about three years out of date,

00:29:00.620 | but for circa 2020, it's the best.

00:29:03.280 | And I had gotten caught up in the fact

00:29:05.700 | that I love doing all this research and thinking,

00:29:07.560 | "Wow, I'm doing it on this topic.

00:29:08.900 | "I should start a podcast on this topic."

00:29:11.740 | And everyone I knew was like, "That's a great idea."

00:29:14.240 | And then I was like, "You know what?"

00:29:15.980 | After we had the kid and we bought the stroller

00:29:18.420 | and we bought all the items, I was like,

00:29:20.720 | "I think I liked researching things

00:29:22.500 | "more than I liked that topic solely."

00:29:25.100 | And I was like, "What if I just did it about all the hacks

00:29:27.580 | "and it was just me researching everything?"

00:29:29.100 | And all my friends said, "Oh, that's so much better.

00:29:30.820 | "That's exactly who you are."

00:29:32.420 | And I was like, "Well, then why didn't you

00:29:33.660 | "tell me that before?"

00:29:35.640 | So I like the fact that instead of texting your friends

00:29:38.700 | and saying, "What do you think of X?"

00:29:40.500 | Ask them first.

00:29:42.040 | Because I've found in the past that if you tell them

00:29:44.580 | you wanna do something, they're often either

00:29:46.700 | completely dismissive or completely supportive.

00:29:49.380 | And it's very hard for them to think,

00:29:50.940 | "Oh, well, that's great,

00:29:52.220 | "but this other thing might be better."

00:29:54.440 | - A common theme I've heard,

00:29:55.620 | "Find something you love,

00:29:56.460 | "you never work a day in your life."

00:29:57.980 | I think that's said by people who actually like their jobs

00:30:00.180 | and there's people who, I'd say 80% don't.

00:30:02.860 | And then what they'll do to avoid it is like,

00:30:04.740 | "Well, I wouldn't wanna do that for a living.

00:30:06.800 | "I like researching a lot, but that's just more my hobby."

00:30:08.820 | And it's like, you know what happens in business

00:30:10.060 | as you get going, you don't do any of the actual work.

00:30:13.360 | Which is counterintuitive.

00:30:14.220 | Like, you know the last time I got an AppSumo deal?

00:30:17.160 | 2011, right?

00:30:19.640 | Right, you know, like, it's been 13 years.

00:30:22.360 | And I remember someone saying that and I was like,

00:30:23.840 | "Oh, interesting.

00:30:24.680 | "So don't trade your time for money,

00:30:25.920 | "trade your money for someone else's time."

00:30:28.400 | And that's how business happens.

00:30:30.080 | And if you do enjoy it, frankly, you're like,

00:30:31.660 | "Hey, actually, no, I like customer support.

00:30:33.400 | "I like all these areas."

00:30:34.560 | Great, but it doesn't always have to be that case.

00:30:36.520 | And I love your highlight of find something

00:30:38.340 | that you just enjoy doing.

00:30:39.880 | I always like the idea too, if you have a million dollars,

00:30:41.880 | like I send you a million dollars today,

00:30:43.020 | what are you doing tomorrow?

00:30:44.380 | I am doing it.

00:30:45.320 | I'm doing it.

00:30:47.220 | I'm talking about a book,

00:30:48.060 | 'cause this is what I wish I would have had

00:30:49.500 | when I was getting started.

00:30:50.320 | I get to promote deals on AppSumo.

00:30:51.900 | Like, I get to make YouTube content

00:30:53.700 | or interview rich people and ask how they did it.

00:30:55.660 | I don't know, like, I can't believe it.

00:30:57.300 | Most days, I can't believe this is my career.

00:30:58.700 | I like type on a keyboard and like money comes.

00:31:01.300 | And then I also recognize that it started as a hobby.

00:31:03.820 | I think that's a big thing people don't think of.

00:31:05.900 | They're like, "No, no, it's gotta be a million dollar

00:31:07.700 | "crazy thing."

00:31:08.540 | I don't know, most big billion trillion dollar businesses

00:31:11.520 | started as just curiosity, right?

00:31:14.320 | Airbnb, one of my favorite examples, started in a weekend.

00:31:17.160 | They emailed people saying,

00:31:18.000 | "Hey, does anyone wanna stay at our couch

00:31:19.140 | "for this design conference in SF?"

00:31:21.200 | Someone did.

00:31:22.600 | Hmm, that's kind of interesting.

00:31:24.620 | They weren't setting out to change, you know,

00:31:26.320 | annoy everybody in the world

00:31:27.720 | and make the world kind of cooler.

00:31:29.420 | And same thing with a lot of these other businesses.

00:31:32.320 | - I was talking to a mentor of mine.

00:31:34.800 | Well, I might get back on the show, Andy Ratcliffe,

00:31:36.560 | who started Wealthfront and he told me two things

00:31:39.060 | that are pretty relevant.

00:31:39.900 | One, he's like, "I've done a lot of investing in my career.

00:31:42.240 | "At the earliest stage, I honestly don't even know

00:31:45.300 | "if the idea matters at all.

00:31:47.420 | "The idea might change, the idea might evolve.

00:31:50.380 | "People haven't really baked it.

00:31:51.640 | "It's really about how excited is a person about this idea

00:31:54.680 | "and how driven are they?"

00:31:56.220 | And then he said, "And the one skill I value the most

00:31:59.400 | "is intellectual curiosity."

00:32:01.140 | He just wants people that are excited about a thing

00:32:04.300 | and wanna learn more about it.

00:32:05.800 | And he's like, "That is something I really value."

00:32:07.860 | And so, you know, it made me think,

00:32:10.260 | "Oh, we're having this conversation today.

00:32:12.020 | "That was a couple of days ago."

00:32:13.620 | What are you just curious about?

00:32:14.920 | Like, what are the things

00:32:15.740 | that you just can't stop thinking about?

00:32:17.620 | And how could you solve some problem?

00:32:20.660 | Again, I spent a career also in product management.

00:32:23.980 | Forget about solutions.

00:32:25.140 | Just figure out what people are having problems with.

00:32:27.300 | Ask them what's wrong in their day.

00:32:28.940 | I love this exercise.

00:32:29.880 | Walk through a friend's day and just be like,

00:32:32.100 | "All right, tell me everything that sucked

00:32:34.100 | "in lots of details."

00:32:35.340 | Like, okay, you were making breakfast.

00:32:37.200 | What would have made breakfast less frustrating?

00:32:39.320 | I don't know.

00:32:40.160 | My cast iron skillet's always hot.

00:32:41.780 | I don't know what the idea is right now.

00:32:44.300 | I forgot to turn the stove off, which I did this morning.

00:32:46.920 | When it comes to building wealth,

00:32:49.500 | taxes are such a big part of the strategy.

00:32:52.180 | And even if you've already filed,

00:32:53.860 | being proactive about this year

00:32:55.320 | to lower your future liability is so important.

00:32:58.020 | And now that I'm working with Gelt,

00:32:59.680 | I finally feel like I have a partner I can trust

00:33:01.860 | to handle everything for my business and personal taxes.

00:33:05.180 | And I'm excited to partner with them for this episode.

00:33:07.660 | Think of Gelt as the ultimate modern CPA.

00:33:10.260 | They not only offer an amazing tech platform

00:33:12.680 | that gives you personalized guidance

00:33:14.280 | to maximize deductions, tax credits, and savings,

00:33:17.140 | but also everything is backed by an in-house team

00:33:19.820 | of expert CPAs who can recommend

00:33:22.080 | the most effective tax strategies

00:33:23.980 | to minimize risk and grow your wealth.

00:33:26.180 | And best of all,

00:33:27.060 | you can have this transparent open communication

00:33:29.220 | with your team in whatever way works best for you,

00:33:32.020 | whether that's on their platform, over email,

00:33:34.340 | in Slack, or scheduling a call.

00:33:36.540 | Finally, my favorite story

00:33:37.820 | is that when we first onboarded with Gelt,

00:33:39.900 | they reviewed our past returns

00:33:41.420 | and found a huge mistake our prior CPA had made.

00:33:44.220 | So they refiled and got us back all that money.

00:33:47.100 | So if you're ready for a more premium,

00:33:48.980 | proactive tax strategy to optimize and file your taxes,

00:33:52.580 | you have to check out Gelt.

00:33:54.460 | And as an All The Hacks listener,

00:33:55.920 | you can skip the wait list and get started today.

00:33:58.460 | Just head to allthehacks.com/Gelt, G-E-L-T.

00:34:02.780 | Again, that's allthehacks.com/G-E-L-T.

00:34:06.640 | It seems like with every business,

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00:35:34.980 | I just wanna thank you quick for listening to

00:35:38.820 | and supporting the show.

00:35:40.300 | Your support is what keeps this show going.

00:35:43.140 | To get all of the URLs, codes, deals,

00:35:45.860 | and discounts from our partners,

00:35:47.620 | you can go to allthehacks.com/deals.

00:35:51.160 | So please consider supporting those who support us.

00:35:54.380 | Let's take a little turn.

00:35:55.220 | You mentioned you've interviewed a lot of millionaires,

00:35:57.020 | billionaires.

00:35:57.940 | What are some of the lessons you've learned

00:35:59.340 | from all those conversations?

00:36:00.780 | - I've also worked for them, right?

00:36:02.300 | So one thing I've noticed is that

00:36:05.740 | I think we all imagine that they're better than us.

00:36:08.660 | And when you actually meet millionaires,

00:36:10.420 | or multi-millionaires, or billionaires,

00:36:12.420 | nope, not really.

00:36:13.940 | And that's beautiful, right?

00:36:15.620 | 'Cause that means that everyone has a chance

00:36:18.020 | to create whatever life they want.

00:36:19.540 | There are gifted people.

00:36:20.420 | Like Zuckerberg is definitely smarter than most people.

00:36:22.620 | Bill Gates, who I've worked for, is smarter than most people.

00:36:24.780 | Peter Thiel, who I've gotten to hang out with a little bit,

00:36:26.300 | smarter than most people.

00:36:27.620 | But there's also a lot of billionaires, Larry Janeski.

00:36:29.900 | I would say he's very smart,

00:36:31.060 | but he's also a pretty normal guy,

00:36:33.060 | that I think a lot of us can do.

00:36:34.980 | Now, I would say some of the things in common

00:36:37.880 | between them is that most of them got rich off one thing,

00:36:41.620 | but all of us diversify.

00:36:43.220 | (laughs)

00:36:44.980 | Right, it's actually counterintuitive.

00:36:46.180 | They're like, diversify, diversify,

00:36:47.220 | but they only really got rich one way.

00:36:49.740 | You know, go look at any of these rich person lists.

00:36:51.500 | You know, it's either real estate or it's tech.

00:36:54.060 | You know, outside of inheritance,

00:36:55.060 | it's almost exclusively one thing.

00:36:57.300 | They stick with it for extraordinary long periods of time.

00:36:59.980 | Extraordinary.

00:37:00.820 | And I think, you know, especially with your show, Chris,

00:37:02.740 | we talk about what to choose for stocks or index funds,

00:37:05.380 | things like that, and investing.

00:37:06.980 | You know, think about compound business.

00:37:08.900 | So sticking with something for 20 years.

00:37:10.940 | Like, you've been doing your show three years?

00:37:12.580 | Think about it in 30 years.

00:37:14.580 | Right, like how big that will be,

00:37:15.700 | where each year you're just like,

00:37:16.540 | getting a little better at your craft,

00:37:17.620 | getting a little more popular,

00:37:18.580 | and you just stick with it and stick with it.

00:37:20.180 | And all these guys got rich to become billionaires

00:37:22.300 | in around 20 years,

00:37:23.500 | which I think is super, super interesting.

00:37:26.700 | I like John Paul DeGioia a lot.

00:37:28.660 | I don't know if all of them were happy.

00:37:31.340 | A lot of them seemed to have regret

00:37:32.500 | that they didn't spend more time with their family.

00:37:34.180 | I'm glad I got to learn that from them.

00:37:36.180 | But I would say John Paul DeGioia

00:37:37.180 | seemed like he had the right balance,

00:37:39.060 | where, and as I said earlier, you know,

00:37:40.740 | the book starts with how to get good at asking.

00:37:42.180 | He said that the most important skill

00:37:43.660 | that he's ever had is sales, which is really asking.

00:37:46.980 | And I liked his approach of businesses,

00:37:49.140 | which he said, find the best product

00:37:51.020 | that you really love in a category

00:37:52.900 | that needs to be reordered,

00:37:54.860 | and just do that for a very long period of time.

00:37:57.620 | And so he did tequila, Patron,

00:37:59.740 | sold out for three and a half billion,

00:38:00.820 | 'cause you keep, I guess people keep drinking,

00:38:02.700 | and then he did haircare, Paul Mitchell Haircare,

00:38:04.300 | which you keep using haircare.

00:38:06.860 | And then I'd say the last thing specifically,

00:38:08.300 | especially from him,

00:38:09.460 | 'cause a lot of these guys seem frustrated

00:38:12.380 | or seem like they're chasing still more sometimes,

00:38:14.620 | which I was like, oh, I don't want that.

00:38:16.500 | He seemed just kind.

00:38:18.340 | He seemed really, really kind.

00:38:20.820 | I really admired that.

00:38:21.980 | He was kind with me, his staff was kind,

00:38:24.380 | he was kind to the other people that were filming.

00:38:26.500 | The day he sold Patron,

00:38:28.100 | he gave a $50 million check to charity.

00:38:30.300 | He seemed genuinely kind with himself

00:38:32.180 | and then kind with others,

00:38:33.020 | and that's something I've worked on in the past few years,

00:38:35.540 | and I love that from him.

00:38:37.180 | - Yeah, I had a great conversation with Gary V.

00:38:39.900 | about kindness and just how he thinks

00:38:41.660 | it's the most underrated business skill in the market.

00:38:45.580 | - I think self-kindness is probably underrated.

00:38:48.100 | I think we're all disgusting to ourselves.

00:38:51.540 | I think we're really harsh on ourselves,

00:38:53.780 | and that's something I've definitely worked on.

00:38:56.060 | I try to think of underrated skills.

00:38:57.340 | I'll tell you, underrated skill is gift-giving.

00:39:00.460 | Super underrated in business.

00:39:02.100 | So, so underrated.

00:39:03.500 | And as well, doing the work for people

00:39:05.220 | you want to have help from or people you want to ask.

00:39:07.820 | If you want to come on someone's show,

00:39:09.820 | I could have even done more for you,

00:39:10.780 | even though we just met yesterday,

00:39:12.220 | or we connected yesterday,

00:39:13.700 | but hey, let me come back with ideas for you.

00:39:16.500 | Or, I was able to meet the people from CNBC,

00:39:18.420 | so I'm coming on the show Make It,

00:39:20.180 | and the guy loves his new dog.

00:39:22.740 | And so I asked someone who loves dogs

00:39:24.460 | for what's the coolest dog toy,

00:39:25.860 | and so it's this thing from Fable

00:39:27.660 | where it spits out dog food as a game.

00:39:30.420 | So it's a little gift thing, like 50 bucks.

00:39:33.380 | Like, that's gonna create a cool relationship for life.

00:39:35.860 | So I think those are kind of two things

00:39:36.940 | that I would say are definitely underrated

00:39:38.660 | in a business, or frankly, in life.

00:39:40.900 | - Now that I'm just thinking about

00:39:43.340 | ways that you've changed your life,

00:39:45.060 | how does your routine look on a day-to-day basis

00:39:47.540 | in terms of when you're doing business,

00:39:49.460 | when you're spending time on yourself,

00:39:51.380 | your partner, your health?

00:39:53.420 | - Yeah, I think a lot of the more morning routine content

00:39:56.180 | is very overrated.

00:39:57.380 | I think it's so overrated.

00:40:00.100 | It's like, oh, get up and meditate and fucking journal,

00:40:03.020 | sorry, freaking journal, and then drink whatever,

00:40:05.460 | I don't know, people don't drink Bulletproof coffee anymore,

00:40:07.100 | I don't know, whatever the new coffee fat is,

00:40:08.900 | and then, I don't know,

00:40:10.140 | jump in a cold shower and all that crap.

00:40:12.220 | What I found is just look at the days

00:40:14.260 | that worked out well for you

00:40:15.100 | and try to have common elements between 'em.

00:40:17.380 | So what I have recognized is like,

00:40:19.180 | I do like journaling on Monday morning, that works out,

00:40:21.620 | and I've copied that from the book "Artist's Way,"

00:40:23.180 | which is amazing, if you haven't read it,

00:40:24.900 | I highly recommend, about how to be a creative person.

00:40:27.620 | So I do that on Monday mornings,

00:40:28.620 | and I don't eat until 12, 'cause it makes me feel like,

00:40:31.180 | okay, it's good to feel a little hungry sometimes,

00:40:32.780 | so that's Mondays.

00:40:33.860 | And then the rest of my week,

00:40:34.740 | I don't do anything else before noon.

00:40:36.700 | That's every day.

00:40:37.540 | I'm trying to think of high-level things

00:40:38.740 | that I can recommend for most people.

00:40:39.980 | I color-code my calendar,

00:40:41.180 | I think that's probably one of the cooler things

00:40:42.620 | that people can do,

00:40:43.460 | and it's really just showing you your asset allocation

00:40:46.340 | or your time allocation, if you think about it,

00:40:48.380 | where, all right, how much did I spend with my family,

00:40:50.540 | how much did I spend in fitness,

00:40:51.620 | how much did I spend at work, how much did I spend myself,

00:40:53.780 | and a lot of my stuff is on repeat.

00:40:55.620 | So I know that every Monday, I'm gonna have a journal,

00:40:57.780 | it's in my calendar.

00:40:58.620 | Every month, I have my monthly personal finance review

00:41:00.700 | on my Google spreadsheet.

00:41:02.380 | Let's say other routine stuff,

00:41:04.020 | maybe just high-level two other ones

00:41:05.380 | that people can copy that I found.

00:41:07.180 | I do a weekly review on Fridays, every single Friday.

00:41:10.340 | That's been a game-changer,

00:41:11.860 | where I evaluate how did I show up as a leader,

00:41:14.260 | one through five, and why.

00:41:15.900 | How was my emotional consistency?

00:41:17.620 | I've noticed sometimes, like even yesterday,

00:41:19.220 | I was a little bully, I would say sometimes,

00:41:21.300 | and I was like, ooh, I don't like that.

00:41:23.020 | And then the last one on Fridays is,

00:41:24.540 | what are the three things you wanna do next week?

00:41:26.500 | And then every Sunday,

00:41:27.620 | I take the three things I wanna do next week

00:41:29.740 | and work with my chief of staff to really help schedule

00:41:32.740 | and color-code the things I'm working on

00:41:34.180 | in this upcoming week.

00:41:35.220 | Morning routines, frankly,

00:41:36.060 | just don't drink too late at night,

00:41:38.040 | and then try to go to bed relatively early.

00:41:40.220 | That, you're gonna have a pretty damn great routine

00:41:42.220 | in the morning.

00:41:43.060 | I've noticed I use the Oura Ring,

00:41:44.620 | and people have done a bunch of stuff,

00:41:46.100 | but ultimately, it really comes down to that.

00:41:48.060 | Counterintuitively, by the way,

00:41:48.980 | I think there's gonna be a big trend

00:41:50.180 | that wives and husbands tend to sleep in separate rooms.

00:41:53.380 | 'Cause I think when your partner gets you up,

00:41:55.580 | and you're like, oh man, I did not sleep as well.

00:41:56.900 | But I think there's just too much friction on that.

00:41:59.100 | - I did an episode on sleep,

00:42:00.420 | and I can't remember the interviewee,

00:42:02.820 | but a couple weeks ago,

00:42:03.980 | and I asked a question about sleeping with your partner,

00:42:05.820 | and she's like, I interviewed the world's expert

00:42:08.340 | on sleeping.

00:42:09.820 | There's some book that this person wrote,

00:42:12.060 | and she interviewed it.

00:42:12.980 | I'll put a link in the show notes,

00:42:14.220 | but it was all about how do you optimize your sleep

00:42:17.740 | when you're also trying to consider the fact

00:42:19.740 | that you have another human in the bed,

00:42:21.180 | and what's the right tactic here?

00:42:23.120 | I have not listened to the episode, full disclosure,

00:42:25.140 | so I can't endorse it.

00:42:26.420 | - I mean, I think the same thing for Million Dollar Weekend,

00:42:28.180 | the same thing about how I run AppSumo.com,

00:42:30.380 | and the same thing with these routines is experiment.

00:42:33.740 | That's all it comes down to,

00:42:34.620 | and experiments can fail, but experiments can work.

00:42:36.820 | And so I've done 30 days of getting up at five.

00:42:39.660 | I've done 30 days of no caffeine.

00:42:41.200 | I've done meditation every day,

00:42:42.880 | and then noticing, 'cause everyone's different,

00:42:44.900 | noticing what's the formula.

00:42:46.900 | You're like, oh man, when I can go biking in the morning,

00:42:49.180 | great, or I can jump in the sauna, great,

00:42:51.540 | but when I have a morning meeting at 10, I'm pretty angry,

00:42:53.940 | 'cause I didn't create a business

00:42:55.020 | so that I have to do these kind of things,

00:42:56.540 | or I don't want to.

00:42:58.020 | And then just experiment around that

00:42:59.460 | and seeing how you can create, frankly,

00:43:01.060 | the life and week you wanna live.

00:43:03.220 | And Jake, who read the book,

00:43:05.700 | he said something to me that was really powerful,

00:43:07.660 | and I've been thinking about it every day

00:43:09.580 | since a few months ago.

00:43:11.340 | He said, "Have stuff in your calendar you look forward to.

00:43:14.060 | "Put it in the calendar.

00:43:15.060 | "Put a date night in the calendar.

00:43:16.140 | "Put a workout in the calendar.

00:43:17.840 | "And if you don't have anything in life

00:43:18.840 | "you're excited about, put it in the calendar."

00:43:20.780 | That really stuck with me.

00:43:22.060 | - I literally today just put a recurring,

00:43:23.900 | monthly date night on the calendar, so.

00:43:25.640 | - Hell yeah.

00:43:26.480 | That was actually, that was a business

00:43:27.820 | from a buddy last week, Date Night Nannies,

00:43:30.700 | where they help you suggest either a date night

00:43:32.660 | in every month or weekly.

00:43:34.100 | You can subscribe to different amounts.

00:43:35.700 | Have that as an opportunity.

00:43:37.500 | Well, yeah, it's kind of an interesting business.

00:43:38.980 | - A big takeaway for me, reading the book,

00:43:40.940 | talking to you, is just there's this,

00:43:43.540 | especially in the Bay Area,

00:43:45.180 | but this belief that entrepreneurship

00:43:48.180 | is a career versus an option.

00:43:52.780 | I don't know what the,

00:43:53.620 | the option's probably the wrong word,

00:43:55.020 | but you don't have to choose

00:43:56.220 | between entrepreneurship and employment.

00:43:58.580 | And if you do, you can punt on that decision.

00:44:01.300 | There's a thousand things you can do

00:44:02.980 | when you want to explore an idea,

00:44:06.020 | as you say, in a weekend,

00:44:07.620 | way before you have to decide quitting your job,

00:44:09.820 | way before you have to raise money,

00:44:11.140 | build a product, and all this stuff.

00:44:12.980 | And I think so many people often get turned around.

00:44:16.940 | And if anyone out there,

00:44:18.840 | just because I've taken this phone call like 10 times,

00:44:21.380 | so I started a company doing financial planning online,

00:44:24.320 | and we raised money, spent a few years,

00:44:27.860 | and realized that the reason why that business

00:44:30.580 | is so hard to build is solely that it is almost impossible

00:44:35.180 | to acquire customers at any fast cadence.

00:44:39.000 | Because people all want to change their finances,

00:44:42.620 | they all want to improve their financial life,

00:44:44.780 | but they just don't want to do it right now.

00:44:46.900 | And so what we learned, in the worst way possible,

00:44:50.700 | but I'll come back and I'll give a lesson,

00:44:52.180 | is that we asked people,

00:44:54.060 | "Do you want to do this? Put $100 down."

00:44:55.980 | And we got all these people to put $100 down.

00:44:58.060 | And so we were like, "Wow, there's real demand."

00:45:00.340 | The challenge is then we said,

00:45:01.180 | "All right, let's get started. Do you want to pay the rest?"

00:45:03.020 | And they're like, "No, not now."

00:45:04.580 | And we were like, "Oh, we'll give you your $100 back."

00:45:06.220 | And they said, "No, no, no, don't give us the $100 back.

00:45:08.140 | We want to do this. We just don't want to do it now."

00:45:10.260 | And converting people off that wait list

00:45:11.900 | was almost impossible.

00:45:13.260 | So a lot of these founders call me and they say,

00:45:14.900 | "Hey, I want to start a company.

00:45:16.020 | We want to do online financial planning."

00:45:17.980 | And I'm like, "Stop everything,

00:45:20.180 | and just find out if you can acquire people.

00:45:22.100 | Like, can you sell this in a way that you could repeat?

00:45:25.980 | And if not, don't go hire the engineering team.

00:45:28.180 | Don't go build the product."

00:45:29.500 | And it just got me thinking,

00:45:31.580 | especially reflecting on the last 24 hours

00:45:34.660 | of prepping for this conversation,

00:45:37.180 | if I had spent a weekend just validating

00:45:39.460 | whether there were ways to sell financial planning

00:45:42.820 | and close the client quickly, per se,

00:45:45.940 | I probably wouldn't have even needed to start the company

00:45:47.740 | because at the end of the day,

00:45:49.420 | the challenge is people aren't ready to start now.

00:45:52.340 | And if you just listen to the problem,

00:45:54.340 | the problem is, "Oh, I need to fix this.

00:45:56.020 | I need to fix this."

00:45:57.020 | But if you don't actually take whether,

00:45:59.020 | I think it's step two in your process

00:46:00.700 | to actually validate that the thing you want to do

00:46:02.940 | will solve the problem and work,

00:46:05.620 | you kind of get lost.

00:46:07.060 | - How many of your audience is in Silicon Valley?

00:46:08.900 | - Definitely the minority, but I'd say for sub 5%,

00:46:11.660 | but definitely my experience, at least.

00:46:13.980 | - It's interesting as a lot of people have heard that advice,

00:46:15.580 | you know, get going and, but then they don't.

00:46:17.580 | And then it's like, well, what's happening there?

00:46:18.780 | And they're afraid.

00:46:19.980 | And so how do we do it in small, fun ways,

00:46:21.780 | kind of almost games where it's like, okay,

00:46:23.700 | if you fail, fine,

00:46:24.540 | at least you're starting to feel more confident.

00:46:27.260 | Now I saw a Silicon Valley company called Artifacts,

00:46:30.140 | I think it's what it's called,

00:46:31.300 | raised three and a half million dollars

00:46:33.060 | and they'll film a video of your grandma or grandpa,

00:46:36.260 | papi.

00:46:37.380 | And I was like, I could have easily found out in a weekend

00:46:39.820 | that whole business, I didn't need to raise any money.

00:46:41.340 | I could literally,

00:46:42.540 | everyone's got a grandfather and grandmother or parent.

00:46:45.580 | You can contact people in your network.

00:46:47.900 | Hey, can I film your grandfather or grandfather?

00:46:49.900 | I'll go to their house or Zoom 'em for half the price.

00:46:52.500 | And I could record and create a memory capsule for you.

00:46:55.380 | I could make more than $3 million in the next few years

00:46:57.660 | before I even have some complicated Silicon Valley website.

00:47:00.660 | And it was just a cool reminder

00:47:02.740 | that this didn't really apply in a lot of different areas.

00:47:05.260 | And guess what, if no one wanted it, if I called up,

00:47:07.340 | I don't know, maybe I can call up Chris

00:47:09.300 | as someone in my network, like you have,

00:47:11.140 | probably you have parents, see if that's a problem,

00:47:13.740 | see if you even want to pay for it.

00:47:15.260 | And if you don't, great, I didn't go and raise money,

00:47:17.540 | build a pitch deck to build something that no one wants.

00:47:20.140 | - Also, there's a lot of companies that raise so much money

00:47:22.380 | that the business doesn't work at the scale.

00:47:25.540 | So let's pretend that this company goes out of business,

00:47:28.500 | might not actually mean it's a bad idea.

00:47:30.460 | Someone listening to this podcast right now

00:47:32.220 | might be like, well, let's just start doing this.

00:47:34.380 | It might not work at the speed and cadence

00:47:36.820 | investors would want it to be,

00:47:38.340 | which is why that company could or could not fail.

00:47:41.300 | But that doesn't mean it's not a good business.

00:47:42.540 | Financial planning is actually a great business.

00:47:44.660 | It's just not a great software business

00:47:46.380 | at the scale investors need.

00:47:48.020 | So I am happy that we haven't tried to raise money

00:47:51.260 | to turn this into a venture-backed podcast.

00:47:55.100 | - The reality, it doesn't always work.

00:47:57.100 | And people are so close to yeses

00:47:59.340 | if they just got some nos, right?

00:48:01.420 | Like if they just started asking,

00:48:02.580 | like, hey, I'm gonna try this business,

00:48:03.580 | didn't work, okay, great.

00:48:05.420 | But people are giving up way too soon.

00:48:07.340 | They're all giving up way too soon.

00:48:08.740 | And if they could just wait till they,

00:48:10.180 | not even wait, keep going, keep going, keep going,

00:48:11.940 | eventually you will find that thing.

00:48:13.300 | And I mean, it took me, I think, 20 different business ideas

00:48:16.980 | to finally get to AppSumo that finally worked.

00:48:18.900 | And I was like, all right, great, it's working.

00:48:20.340 | My favorite business is the one that works.

00:48:21.660 | I'm just gonna stick with this.

00:48:22.740 | And I would say year after year showing up,

00:48:25.420 | it's now producing great dividends.

00:48:27.220 | And that's available worldwide.

00:48:28.940 | - Well, so one of the skills you mentioned

00:48:30.220 | was just getting going, right?

00:48:31.820 | And I think in the book, you say now, not how.

00:48:33.980 | Let's talk about that because I think that's a skill

00:48:35.940 | that applies whether you're starting a company

00:48:38.900 | or whether you're just working on anything.

00:48:40.980 | And it's a skill I'm pretty bad at.

00:48:42.220 | So that's why I'm gonna ask you

00:48:45.300 | to coach me and people listening.

00:48:47.300 | When you have the mind of, oh, great,

00:48:49.620 | I need to do this thing, take fitness.

00:48:51.900 | You're like, oh, I wanna start working out.

00:48:53.540 | Okay, well, let's go research

00:48:54.620 | what the best training program is.

00:48:57.340 | Let's go ask 10 of my friends.

00:48:58.900 | Is there maybe a coach I should hire?

00:49:00.220 | It's like, or just go lift some weights, go on a run.

00:49:03.820 | You seem like someone who also, you wrote a book,

00:49:06.060 | like to do some research,

00:49:07.140 | like to put thought behind things.

00:49:09.700 | How do you contrast that to just get going?

00:49:12.740 | - I wanna avoid getting going really fast

00:49:14.900 | in the wrong direction, right?

00:49:16.820 | So the whole concept is how do I get going,

00:49:18.820 | see if it works.

00:49:19.660 | If it works, great, I'm gonna go fast in that direction.

00:49:21.900 | So what do you think is the last thing you avoided

00:49:24.060 | or you took longer on

00:49:24.900 | than maybe you think you have to, needed to or wanted to?

00:49:27.340 | - I mean, I can think of a few things

00:49:28.340 | that I just haven't done yet.

00:49:29.700 | - What are examples of that?

00:49:31.100 | - My wife and I talk a lot about,

00:49:32.420 | and I get lots of emails from people like,

00:49:33.740 | gosh, you have such great content.

00:49:35.100 | Like, why aren't you posting it anywhere else?

00:49:36.860 | I don't like podcasts.

00:49:38.260 | You can put it in a newsletter.

00:49:39.220 | We started doing that.

00:49:40.460 | And then someone was like, LinkedIn might be great.

00:49:42.180 | I'm like, okay, well, maybe I should go figure out

00:49:44.260 | what the best way to do LinkedIn is.

00:49:47.820 | I don't know.

00:49:48.660 | I'm using a little bit of an extreme, but also not.

00:49:51.260 | - That's okay.

00:49:52.100 | - My default is like, go master the thing before doing it.

00:49:57.100 | And even though I know that that's the wrong path,

00:50:01.260 | the right path would be like,

00:50:02.460 | well, just write something and post it

00:50:03.700 | and see what people think.

00:50:05.020 | But sometimes I have to get out of my own head there.

00:50:07.460 | And so I'm curious if you have any thoughts

00:50:10.020 | on encouraging people who are like,

00:50:11.780 | well, I wanna start this thing.

00:50:12.920 | I wanna think about it.

00:50:13.760 | I'm not sure.

00:50:14.600 | You could just do it.

00:50:15.540 | - Well, so a few things there,

00:50:16.900 | but let's just take this LinkedIn as a great example.

00:50:19.060 | What's held you back from posting it today?

00:50:21.180 | - Probably not sure what the right format is.

00:50:25.220 | Not sure what the right topic is.

00:50:28.360 | Probably a little bit of,

00:50:29.500 | there are professional people there that know me

00:50:31.660 | and don't wanna look like an idiot

00:50:32.940 | posting something stupid in front of a professional group.

00:50:35.700 | But I don't know, those are a couple.

00:50:37.820 | - Those are great.

00:50:38.660 | And that's super common, right?

00:50:40.140 | We're embarrassed.

00:50:40.980 | I remember posting on Facebook

00:50:42.740 | and then this person from high school,

00:50:44.260 | I knew they saw it and I really felt embarrassed.

00:50:47.100 | Like, oh, what are they thinking of me?

00:50:48.980 | And that's part of what this is about, right?

00:50:50.760 | It's finding confidence in ourself through action.

00:50:53.760 | And so I guess I would also wonder,

00:50:55.780 | I think there's a bigger discussion about like,

00:50:57.340 | is LinkedIn really the most helpful in your business?

00:51:00.140 | I think that's a separate thing.

00:51:01.540 | What would happen if you posted today?

00:51:03.500 | Do you post anywhere?

00:51:04.740 | Where do you post anything?

00:51:05.880 | - I'm not active on LinkedIn, Twitter,

00:51:09.300 | Facebook, Instagram, anywhere.

00:51:11.500 | - Oh, and how do people even hear about this podcast then?

00:51:13.260 | - Interesting thing.

00:51:14.100 | Most people find out about podcasts on podcasts.

00:51:16.540 | So word of mouth and being a guest on other shows,

00:51:21.140 | maybe some newsletter stuff,

00:51:23.700 | but it certainly wasn't Instagram or Twitter probably

00:51:26.580 | for most people, though I'm sure someone listening

00:51:28.460 | will write back that, no, no, no, it was for me.

00:51:30.540 | - And then maybe let's do a parallel.

00:51:32.260 | So when you finally put yourself out there on the podcast,

00:51:34.460 | how did it feel?

00:51:35.300 | - I don't know, it just felt natural.

00:51:37.940 | - I think you wrote something about this somewhere,

00:51:39.620 | but it's like, I'm not the kind of person

00:51:41.300 | who's like always taking pictures all the time

00:51:43.340 | and wanting to share them with the world.

00:51:44.820 | So like Instagram seems so unnatural.

00:51:47.540 | It's so forced.

00:51:48.740 | If someone's like, just post more photos on Instagram.

00:51:50.700 | I'm like, I just don't wanna do that.

00:51:52.740 | - It's not what I do.

00:51:53.620 | And I also think what I would, you know, in business

00:51:55.900 | and same with this stuff,

00:51:56.740 | and we can go back to now not how,

00:51:58.260 | it's how do you do more of what's working?

00:52:00.620 | And what's working for you is podcast.

00:52:01.900 | So I would say, how do you do more of that in the now?

00:52:04.100 | Not necessarily like something you don't really wanna do.

00:52:06.820 | Like, yes, I could go post on those areas,

00:52:08.700 | but I don't like that either.

00:52:10.080 | Where I see the now not how concept

00:52:12.140 | is mostly for people who are not starting.

00:52:14.900 | They're just not getting started, right?

00:52:16.460 | And that's what's really holding back.

00:52:17.380 | You're already going.

00:52:18.960 | So going and starting something off in a direction

00:52:20.580 | isn't what makes sense.

00:52:21.500 | Doubling down on what's working is what makes sense for you.

00:52:23.340 | And that's what we encourage later in the book,

00:52:25.260 | in the process.

00:52:26.500 | I guess the two things I would say is,

00:52:29.200 | you can practice not a how in really stupid things.

00:52:31.860 | And I've found that really helpful.

00:52:32.880 | Like practice it when there's something on the ground.

00:52:35.260 | 'Cause you'll go to your closet tonight, Chris.

00:52:36.580 | I don't know if you're organized,

00:52:37.420 | but sometimes maybe your clothes on the ground

00:52:38.780 | or you're in the garage and kids left

00:52:40.360 | something on the ground.

00:52:41.200 | You're like, I'll get it tomorrow.

00:52:43.000 | And I tell myself, now not how.

00:52:44.960 | Ah, damn it.

00:52:45.920 | And the idea with now not how is that we are,

00:52:47.880 | in general, thinking about,

00:52:49.440 | well, if I wanna start a business,

00:52:50.280 | I gotta do all this stuff.

00:52:51.100 | It's like, no, just get going.

00:52:51.940 | Try to find a customer.

00:52:52.780 | And I've noticed there's a guy named Rico.

00:52:55.960 | He just started posting online.

00:52:57.120 | And he said, I made $4.70.

00:52:59.000 | He just started posting in his Facebook groups and stuff.

00:53:00.800 | And I was like, what are you doing?

00:53:01.920 | He's like, I don't know, just now.

00:53:03.040 | I'm just doing it.

00:53:03.860 | I'm not worrying about if people really love it or not.

00:53:05.760 | And you're doing it before fear catches up.

00:53:08.340 | And I like doing it in kind of silly ways.

00:53:10.360 | I live and I do this stuff.

00:53:12.280 | So I said, let me just do a now not how

00:53:13.640 | that anyone can copy.

00:53:14.520 | So I texted my girlfriend.

00:53:16.680 | I said, what's one thing right now you can tell me

00:53:20.040 | that I can do to improve our relationship?

00:53:22.600 | And so she actually wrote a really great response.

00:53:25.320 | I'm not gonna share it.

00:53:26.300 | But she said, baby, it's a difficult question, dot dot dot.

00:53:30.000 | That was just 'cause right in the now,

00:53:31.200 | I asked for something versus,

00:53:33.280 | okay, now let me go to therapy

00:53:34.720 | or let me have a date night

00:53:35.840 | and then we're gonna have a sit down.

00:53:37.080 | But just right now I asked for something

00:53:38.720 | and I got feedback.

00:53:39.560 | And you can do that in your job right now.

00:53:40.520 | You can do that in starting a business right now.

00:53:42.200 | You can do that in social media right now.

00:53:44.280 | And I think a lot of times people are like,

00:53:45.400 | well, how do I approach it?

00:53:46.480 | How do I, and don't worry about the how,

00:53:47.800 | just get going on the now.

00:53:49.120 | How does that maybe relate to,

00:53:50.520 | what do you think is something that you think

00:53:52.200 | would actually benefit you in things going on

00:53:54.420 | that maybe you can consider as an experiment

00:53:56.560 | doing right now?

00:53:57.680 | - It's funny, in the last 24 hours, I did an experiment.

00:54:01.120 | And so I'll share it because it was a success.

00:54:03.400 | And I think it's a great story.

00:54:05.520 | There are a handful of people that listeners have said,

00:54:08.000 | you should have come on the show

00:54:09.320 | or I'd thought would be interesting.

00:54:11.680 | And I wasn't quite sure

00:54:13.920 | what would be the perfect conversation.

00:54:16.240 | And so I'll give one example of Dan Pink.

00:54:18.360 | So he's an author, he's been on the show in the past.

00:54:21.280 | And I was like, we had a great conversation.

00:54:23.200 | I like his reading, his writing.

00:54:24.480 | I was like, I should just have him back on the show

00:54:27.440 | as soon as I figure out what the topic is.

00:54:30.640 | 'Cause I don't know what the topic's gonna be.

00:54:32.320 | And so last night I just,

00:54:33.720 | we spoke yesterday about this conversation.

00:54:36.040 | I just sent him a note and I was like,

00:54:36.940 | hey, I would love to have you back on the show.

00:54:38.680 | We had a great conversation.

00:54:40.120 | I'll figure out what it'll be about.

00:54:41.200 | But if you're interested, here's a link.

00:54:42.840 | And then this morning, he just scheduled a link

00:54:44.280 | and we're gonna record an episode in a week

00:54:45.680 | or maybe two weeks.

00:54:46.880 | And so I know I'm gonna find a thing

00:54:49.840 | and I just needed that motivation to do it.

00:54:51.800 | So I would say, had we not talked,

00:54:54.840 | that would be a great example of something I wasn't doing.

00:54:56.760 | But because I've been thinking about this,

00:54:58.480 | I just tried to put in the action.

00:55:00.240 | And I would say there's like three or four guests

00:55:03.040 | that are coming on the show in the next month

00:55:05.800 | that are all as a result of outreach in the last 24 hours

00:55:09.120 | that I was just like, you know what, let's just do it.

00:55:10.520 | Let's just, like, let's not wait for the perfect time.

00:55:12.800 | Maybe the hint is you just need

00:55:13.800 | to constantly remind yourself in practice.

00:55:15.720 | It's a muscle you have to build.

00:55:17.360 | And even though I knew I was supposed to do it all along,

00:55:21.240 | it was just hard.

00:55:22.080 | And now I just need to do it more and see the benefit.

00:55:24.280 | - That's great, man.

00:55:25.120 | That was cool.

00:55:25.960 | Yeah, the things are never as scary as we think

00:55:28.280 | and they're never as hard.

00:55:29.680 | And I would say that the book, what really is the book,

00:55:32.600 | yes, it's business and money

00:55:33.800 | and changing your life for 48 hours,

00:55:35.480 | but it's about learning who you can become through business.

00:55:39.040 | I would say it's like the Marie Kondo of business

00:55:41.520 | is what we aimed for, which is, yes, it has mindset,

00:55:44.280 | it has recipes, but it's really,

00:55:46.440 | how do we do things we didn't think we could do

00:55:48.360 | and we could live lives we didn't think we could live?

00:55:50.240 | Literally, the now, not how

00:55:51.360 | is the number one takeaway from the book.

00:55:52.960 | There's definitely a lot of other things

00:55:54.120 | and tactics and all that other stuff,

00:55:55.320 | but we survey every beta reader and it was like,

00:55:58.000 | oh my God, I just realized I'm distracting myself

00:56:00.440 | from things that actually matter

00:56:01.400 | and I can do it much quicker than I realized.

00:56:03.560 | And especially if you know, someone like yourself,

00:56:04.920 | 'cause you've got a family, you're busy, all these things,

00:56:07.040 | but just getting in the now, just literally doing the now,

00:56:09.720 | you realize the results that can come for it.

00:56:11.400 | So that was awesome to hear and inspired you in the now.

00:56:14.360 | It takes a while, right?

00:56:15.200 | Like you gave plenty examples in the book.

00:56:17.520 | You have the law of a hundred,

00:56:18.600 | like look at some of the most successful business people

00:56:22.360 | you talked about, like you need to start now

00:56:24.640 | because it can take years for things to work.

00:56:27.960 | Well, the law of a hundred for people out there

00:56:29.560 | is just commit to a hundred of something, right?

00:56:31.320 | So a hundred podcasts or a hundred days or a hundred emails

00:56:34.960 | and it's about how to not quit too soon.

00:56:37.160 | And I gotta shout you out where the book starts

00:56:40.200 | about the power of starting in the upside of asking.

00:56:42.680 | And you also said, hey, no,

00:56:43.760 | what about me coming on your show?

00:56:44.680 | You have a lot of my content is about entrepreneurship.

00:56:47.880 | And I was like, I thought about it a lot last night.

00:56:49.520 | I was like, I like that he asked.

00:56:51.200 | 'Cause you know, the upside of an ask,

00:56:52.200 | you get something that you want.

00:56:53.240 | The downside is maybe a moment of a rejection.

00:56:55.880 | And the more that people can practice that skill,

00:56:59.120 | they realize like there's a lot more out there for them.

00:57:01.720 | And they're not just getting what they get,

00:57:03.320 | they're getting what they want.

00:57:04.320 | If you wanna go deeper, I did an episode,

00:57:06.440 | anyone listening with Aziz Ghazipura,

00:57:09.040 | we talked a lot about rejection therapy

00:57:11.200 | and like lots of different ways

00:57:13.000 | that you can practice getting rejected.

00:57:15.440 | You've got one where you ask people at a coffee shop

00:57:17.280 | to just give you 10% discount

00:57:18.640 | or friends to give you a dollar,

00:57:19.880 | which are both great tactics.

00:57:21.680 | But for anyone who's like, let's double click there,

00:57:24.480 | we're not gonna spend 20 minutes on it.

00:57:26.120 | But that episode went deep there.

00:57:28.280 | There's a lot of rejection out there.

00:57:30.480 | I know, people don't realize how much rejection happens

00:57:33.000 | for people that are getting the things they want

00:57:34.680 | 'cause they're only seeing the things they get, right?

00:57:36.920 | Like, oh, it must be good for her

00:57:38.440 | because she seems to have a great thing.

00:57:39.480 | But it's like, yeah, you don't know all the other things

00:57:40.840 | that she tried to get to where she is.

00:57:43.000 | And so I do think it's good in fun ways.

00:57:45.600 | You know, in the book,

00:57:46.440 | we have a lot of these different little silly,

00:57:47.320 | yeah, as you called it, silly little challenges.

00:57:49.120 | And guess what?

00:57:49.960 | You kind of should be laughing.

00:57:51.200 | And then throughout the book,

00:57:52.040 | you're kind of, it should be enjoyable.

00:57:53.200 | It shouldn't be this big, scary thing

00:57:54.640 | that you have to overcome,

00:57:56.080 | but you just have to face yourself.

00:57:58.200 | Everyone can do that.

00:57:59.040 | And that's what I'm out here cheerleading

00:58:01.760 | to encourage people to do that

00:58:02.800 | 'cause I don't want people living what if.

00:58:05.160 | And I have someone close to me

00:58:06.360 | where they feel like they don't have power

00:58:09.320 | to change their lives, and they do.

00:58:10.880 | - So you talk a lot about making the ask.

00:58:13.200 | What about the follow-up?

00:58:14.200 | How do you feel about how often you should follow up?

00:58:17.520 | When you get a no, can you get a yes later?

00:58:20.560 | - I think that's when I'm named no.

00:58:22.400 | My future kid, my girlfriend is pregnant.

00:58:24.560 | We were gonna name him C, you know, C in Spanish for Sia.

00:58:27.800 | But my girlfriend vetoed that name.

00:58:29.240 | Most people don't ever follow up.

00:58:30.760 | A lot of times in hiring,

00:58:32.160 | I'll just delete after the first email

00:58:34.200 | just to see who follows up.

00:58:35.400 | And very, very few ever follow up.

00:58:37.600 | Now, just to share a story,

00:58:39.400 | you guys heard me talk about John Paul DeGioia earlier.

00:58:41.640 | But what you didn't hear

00:58:42.480 | is that I saw him on the streets.

00:58:44.840 | I just went up to him.

00:58:46.000 | I was bicycling, I was in spandex.

00:58:47.400 | And I was like, "Oh my God,

00:58:48.240 | "I've been dreaming of interviewing you.

00:58:49.440 | "I'd love to interview you."

00:58:51.000 | And he said, "Cool, here's my assistant."

00:58:53.160 | He doesn't have a computer.

00:58:54.000 | He said, "Here's my assistant's number, call her."

00:58:55.640 | So I call her that night.

00:58:56.600 | She's like, "Oh cool, he's not available."

00:58:59.120 | I was like, "What do you mean?"

00:58:59.960 | I met him on the street, he said, "Yes."

00:59:02.000 | (laughs)

00:59:02.840 | I was in spandex, don't you remember?

00:59:04.560 | And she's like, "Well, give me a call later.

00:59:06.600 | "And then here's my email."

00:59:08.360 | I followed up with her every week for a year.

00:59:11.000 | And then one Friday, she called me.

00:59:14.640 | And she said, "Hey, he can meet you Monday at 8 a.m.

00:59:16.840 | "Can you be there?"

00:59:17.680 | And I was like, "Hell yeah, I'll be there."

00:59:18.720 | One, it was amazing to meet him,

00:59:19.640 | but it was a great interview of him sharing his story

00:59:23.200 | and really inspiring a lot of people in business journeys.

00:59:25.040 | But you didn't know that I got rejected 50 weeks

00:59:27.920 | to get to that point.

00:59:28.760 | And I asked her in person,

00:59:29.600 | I thought this was the most interesting part of that,

00:59:31.080 | where I recorded it.

00:59:33.080 | And I said, "Wasn't I annoying?

00:59:35.680 | "Didn't it bother you, like this guy, excuse me?"

00:59:38.760 | She's like, "No, I respected you.

00:59:40.240 | "I admired that you really wanted it

00:59:41.840 | "and you were willing to follow up with that.

00:59:43.960 | "You didn't bug me every day,

00:59:45.560 | "but every week she knows I'm gonna call her or email her."

00:59:48.080 | And there's something about that

00:59:50.080 | in whatever the things we actually want in life are.

00:59:53.120 | And so if you can be clear on what you actually want,

00:59:55.280 | which is sometimes harder than we think,

00:59:57.840 | then it makes it much easier to then say,

00:59:59.040 | "All right, well, at least I need to make it easy

01:00:01.120 | "to follow up."

01:00:01.960 | 'Cause that's how you're gonna get the things you want.

01:00:03.320 | My favorite quote is, "A squeaky wheel gets the grease."

01:00:06.680 | Which is still strange, but really it's just like,

01:00:08.680 | if you're making noise and you're kinda persisting,

01:00:10.680 | I do think eventually persistence beats resistance.

01:00:13.920 | Another one of my favorites.

01:00:15.720 | So yeah, most people are not following up.

01:00:17.760 | - I think you could also probably call out things

01:00:19.720 | that you're afraid of.

01:00:20.920 | So if you're afraid that they're gonna be like,

01:00:22.360 | "This person's annoying," you could be like,

01:00:24.640 | "Hey, I'm just following up

01:00:26.400 | "'cause I know this interview is gonna be amazing.

01:00:28.680 | "Don't feel like you need to reply.

01:00:30.320 | "I'm gonna keep..."

01:00:31.160 | You could kind of couch out some of the things.

01:00:34.120 | But if you get someone who thinks

01:00:35.720 | they have to reply to the email, it might be annoying.

01:00:38.120 | But if they're okay just archiving it at the end,

01:00:40.880 | yeah, keep going.

01:00:41.800 | - Yeah, there's definitely a difference

01:00:42.720 | between no and not yet.

01:00:44.680 | And what I've noticed with rejection

01:00:47.160 | or with asking in general,

01:00:49.240 | is that everyone's got things going on

01:00:51.160 | and it's hard to really know.

01:00:52.160 | Like we make these stories up about others,

01:00:53.720 | like, "Oh, they rejected me, they hate me."

01:00:55.880 | And then I followed up with people that are like,

01:00:57.040 | "Hey, thanks for bringing it back to my attention.

01:00:58.560 | "I was really busy."

01:01:00.040 | Great.

01:01:00.880 | (laughs)

01:01:02.080 | And so there are tools, right?

01:01:03.520 | Like followup.cc, and there's Google S News,

01:01:06.040 | and there's your calendar,

01:01:06.880 | and there's frankly pen and paper.

01:01:08.880 | But just make sure you follow up on these things.

01:01:12.000 | And at AppSumo, and personally,

01:01:14.560 | even with my own sales over the years,

01:01:16.640 | I noticed about half of our sales,

01:01:18.160 | it's almost half come through the followup.

01:01:20.800 | And I think that's so insane of a data point,

01:01:23.320 | where that the first time almost no one's responding,

01:01:25.400 | but the second time I'm getting half of the sales.

01:01:28.480 | Maybe it's more likely for others

01:01:29.480 | to think about how they can follow up.

01:01:30.960 | - My sister worked in sales for a long time.

01:01:33.560 | She had these automated sequences,

01:01:35.320 | and like the fifth email was one about crocodiles.

01:01:39.080 | I don't know if anyone listening

01:01:40.120 | or you have ever gotten this email.

01:01:41.600 | And it was just like, "Sorry about the crocodiles."

01:01:44.760 | And the email said, you open the email and it's like,

01:01:48.280 | "Not sure what happened, haven't heard from you,

01:01:50.480 | "but maybe you got eaten by crocodiles.

01:01:53.080 | "I'm not sure.

01:01:54.040 | "If so, I hope everything's okay.

01:01:56.240 | "Would still love to chat."

01:01:57.680 | And she was like, "That email killed it."

01:02:00.320 | It was like, after someone didn't respond five times,

01:02:03.960 | she would just send this like Hail Mary email

01:02:06.800 | that actually got people to respond and close deals.

01:02:10.000 | - Well, I get these emails too,

01:02:11.640 | and I find them kinda, I don't know, kitschy a little bit.

01:02:14.440 | But I think what's powerful for me to recognize,

01:02:16.440 | and I always think of the acronym WIFT,

01:02:18.840 | is what's in it for them.

01:02:19.960 | And I think when most people are sending stuff,

01:02:21.280 | it's like, what's in it for me?

01:02:22.880 | It's like, here's my thing.

01:02:25.520 | No one's ever really making it obvious

01:02:28.160 | why it's such a good thing for the other person.

01:02:29.640 | And what they do also is they do it in the same medium

01:02:31.800 | that everyone's doing it.

01:02:33.280 | So if you're doing it on LinkedIn, it's gonna be hard.

01:02:35.560 | If you're doing it on Twitter, it might be a little easier.

01:02:37.920 | If you're doing it on email, it might be.

01:02:39.480 | And so again, I think it's like,

01:02:40.320 | what's the medium where they're not getting harassed?

01:02:42.720 | And then as you're communicating with them,

01:02:43.920 | how do you make sure that,

01:02:45.240 | hey, based on what you're doing,

01:02:46.200 | I know this is gonna be good for you.

01:02:47.360 | Like for instance, I do social media.

01:02:49.280 | You can check that out online.

01:02:51.000 | People, I get literally, I'm not joking,

01:02:52.680 | 30 messages a day.

01:02:53.520 | Hey, can I be your editor for your content?

01:02:56.080 | And one out of 1,000 will actually send me something.

01:02:59.560 | They'll show me, not tell me.

01:03:01.520 | And they're thinking about what's in it for me.

01:03:02.560 | They're like, well, I showed you what I can do.

01:03:05.320 | And that guy got hired.

01:03:06.880 | He gets a six-figure salary

01:03:08.040 | working for me on the YouTube channel.

01:03:10.040 | So I think there's just different other elements of,

01:03:12.600 | one, besides the follow-up, even the asking,

01:03:14.280 | by practicing it, you will get better at the ask.

01:03:16.440 | Yeah, I tell everyone I know who's trying to get on podcasts.

01:03:20.240 | I'm like, I get lots of pitches,

01:03:22.120 | and all of them are from people

01:03:24.040 | who have clearly never listened to the show ever.

01:03:26.800 | And then one in 100 is someone like,

01:03:28.640 | hey, I listened to your show.

01:03:29.480 | Here's an episode that might make sense.

01:03:31.600 | And I'm like, I'm excited.

01:03:33.280 | It doesn't always work.

01:03:34.600 | But I get all these emails that are like,

01:03:36.000 | would you like to have an interview

01:03:37.080 | with someone who built a career out of buying storage units?

01:03:41.200 | And I was like, no, I don't have an interview

01:03:44.800 | entrepreneurs about their story.

01:03:46.320 | I'm like, let's learn some tactics.

01:03:47.920 | So it goes so far to do a little bit of homework

01:03:51.520 | to make an email actually relevant

01:03:54.080 | to the person reading it.

01:03:55.200 | Anything.

01:03:56.040 | I mean, even, let me give you an example on day jobs,

01:03:57.240 | 'cause you told me that a lot of your audience

01:03:58.360 | has day jobs.

01:03:59.320 | There's two messages I hate most in the world,

01:04:01.400 | or there's one message, but it could go both ways,

01:04:03.600 | that I hate most in the world.

01:04:05.360 | And it was like, no, we have to talk.

01:04:07.400 | And that's when I get it from someone who works with me.

01:04:09.720 | And I'm like, well, they're quitting today.

01:04:11.760 | And I'm like, well, that's frustrating.

01:04:14.000 | So I got that message two days ago from Kellen.

01:04:17.120 | And it was like, we gotta talk.

01:04:18.760 | I'm like, okay.

01:04:20.160 | She put together a two-page document showing me,

01:04:23.080 | and I won't share her numbers,

01:04:24.120 | but showing me what she's done for AppSumo

01:04:25.960 | and all she's created.

01:04:26.800 | And she said, I know we're gonna come up on raises.

01:04:29.400 | I just wanna show you what I've done.

01:04:30.640 | And based on also data from external raises,

01:04:33.240 | like, might make sense for you to give me a raise.

01:04:36.200 | She made it very easy.

01:04:37.840 | And normally, you get the opposite words of people quitting.

01:04:40.840 | When you're at a company, create more value for the company.

01:04:43.320 | It's very easy to get paid more at that company.

01:04:45.280 | And it was so cool.

01:04:46.120 | She didn't just tell me about that.

01:04:47.600 | She showed that to me.

01:04:48.560 | - I had an au pair once,

01:04:49.760 | the one au pair that didn't work out well.

01:04:51.600 | And she was like, I want more money.

01:04:53.000 | And we were like, why?

01:04:53.840 | And she's like, 'cause I want it.

01:04:55.960 | And my wife was like, from a teaching standpoint,

01:04:59.360 | I wanna sit down and show you

01:05:01.680 | that you should have come and said,

01:05:02.720 | here's all the things I've been doing.

01:05:04.320 | Here's all this work.

01:05:05.720 | But it was like the most frustrating.

01:05:07.160 | They were just like, 'cause I want it.

01:05:08.280 | It didn't happen.

01:05:09.120 | - But just good lessons out there for all of us.

01:05:10.600 | And like, you know, what is it again?

01:05:12.280 | It's an ask, right?

01:05:13.640 | And it's a skill.

01:05:14.520 | Like I knock on doors on these videos

01:05:16.080 | where I knock on houses and ask what they do for a living.

01:05:18.920 | It's very uncomfortable, right?

01:05:20.240 | And I still get a lot of anxiety,

01:05:21.560 | but I don't ask them, hey, what do you do for a living?

01:05:23.280 | 'Cause that's a weird ask.

01:05:24.880 | But I go to the door and compliment them.

01:05:27.200 | And that's something you can do

01:05:28.040 | for anyone you wanna ask something for.

01:05:29.640 | I go to houses I love and I say, I love your house.

01:05:32.440 | Like, oh my God, really?

01:05:33.280 | Yeah, like, tell me about it.

01:05:34.600 | Wow, what did you do to afford this kind of house?

01:05:36.440 | It's so cool.

01:05:37.280 | And oh yeah, we're doing a documentary

01:05:38.200 | about houses in the neighborhood.

01:05:40.840 | And I think we create narratives

01:05:42.320 | about why people are gonna reject us

01:05:43.880 | and we stop before we ever start.

01:05:46.400 | And that's the same reason, like,

01:05:47.320 | I ask people on first class seats

01:05:48.800 | or ask to fly in someone's private jet.

01:05:51.280 | And you'd be surprised at what can happen if you just ask.

01:05:54.120 | I feel like obliged to just make an ask then,

01:05:56.280 | just to demonstrate.

01:05:57.360 | You did, what's your ask?

01:05:59.640 | You did, you asked to come on my show.

01:06:00.680 | I know, but you already said yes,

01:06:02.280 | so now I gotta keep going.

01:06:03.760 | Like, I'm gonna come to Austin, we'll record an episode,

01:06:08.680 | and then I'm gonna sit down and lay out my plan

01:06:10.700 | for what we're doing with the business

01:06:12.120 | and then get your feedback.

01:06:13.240 | You up for that?

01:06:14.320 | Okay, now you're imposing, now you're imposing.

01:06:16.480 | Okay, hold on, slow your roll.

01:06:18.160 | One, I'm flying to Spain in two weeks,

01:06:19.680 | so you have to follow me out there.

01:06:21.220 | But again, I think with ask,

01:06:22.400 | people think it is an imposition, right?

01:06:24.640 | And they're like, but go back to what's in it for me.

01:06:27.080 | Noah, I know you're trying to do this content.

01:06:28.760 | I saw that your most popular podcasts

01:06:30.400 | were on solopreneurship.

01:06:31.840 | I've had a day job, I've started a podcast.

01:06:34.040 | Here's some of the things

01:06:34.880 | that can make it really appealing for you,

01:06:36.280 | or most people send generic templates.

01:06:39.360 | And so if you can think about what's in it

01:06:40.540 | for the other person,

01:06:41.380 | and you put a little bit of effort into it,

01:06:43.100 | like this guy Jay, I just hired this guy Jay,

01:06:45.000 | 17 years old, lives with his parents.

01:06:47.060 | He's coming to the book launch party

01:06:48.340 | for Million Dollar Weekend.

01:06:49.820 | I paid for a ticket for his dad to come with him,

01:06:52.020 | which is so cool.

01:06:52.860 | I was like, that's just cool.

01:06:54.220 | And Jay didn't ask me for a job.

01:06:56.180 | He put together a 30-point Google Slides presentation

01:06:58.900 | about everything in my social media and email that sucked

01:07:01.340 | and what he's gonna do about it.

01:07:03.040 | And now Jay makes more than anyone else.

01:07:04.660 | He probably makes, I don't know if he makes more

01:07:05.660 | than all of his teachers, but pretty soon he will.

01:07:07.900 | Just 'cause he, he didn't make an ask to come work,

01:07:10.840 | but he also put in the work to show me

01:07:12.280 | why it was such a no-brainer for him to get this job.

01:07:14.600 | - I love that.

01:07:15.440 | The only thing that I didn't hit on was,

01:07:18.440 | I know you've talked in the past about being cheap,

01:07:21.120 | and that you've been able to learn how to spend.

01:07:23.960 | I was curious if you had any advice on that.

01:07:26.520 | - I can still be practical.

01:07:28.320 | I think we shouldn't label ourselves as cheap.

01:07:30.200 | - I was using your words.

01:07:31.560 | You've said that.

01:07:32.400 | (laughing)

01:07:34.240 | - I was pretty cheap, I would say,

01:07:35.720 | or practical up until COVID.

01:07:38.360 | And I think a lot of our society

01:07:39.640 | has thought about making money

01:07:40.600 | as no one ever talks about enjoying money.

01:07:43.180 | And I'll tell you, everyone should at least be rich,

01:07:45.840 | and then you can decide

01:07:46.680 | if you wanna go back to being poor.

01:07:48.400 | And I grew up middle-class,

01:07:49.720 | and I think there's a middle-class mentality

01:07:51.520 | where you're trained to be stuck in that path

01:07:54.600 | and realizing you can actually get out of it.

01:07:56.600 | And spending money and enjoying money

01:07:58.920 | has been one of the best things the past three years.

01:08:00.840 | I was telling someone two days ago,

01:08:02.160 | if my house burned down,

01:08:03.280 | the first thing I'm taking is my toilet.

01:08:05.440 | I've got this $6,000 Toto Japanese toilet

01:08:08.240 | that's just killer.

01:08:09.360 | I don't like leaving my house 'cause of toilet.

01:08:11.080 | My girlfriend now is like, "I understand."

01:08:13.000 | Dude, come over.

01:08:13.920 | When you come over, you'll try it.

01:08:15.240 | - This is so funny.

01:08:16.440 | Our last au pair, fantastic, from Spain,

01:08:19.760 | we asked her, "What are you gonna miss most

01:08:21.400 | "when you leave America and go back to Barcelona?"

01:08:23.480 | Or she lives near Barcelona in a town called Tarragona.

01:08:26.120 | She's like, "That toilet."

01:08:28.280 | (laughing)

01:08:29.840 | - Oh, do you guys have a nice toilet?

01:08:31.120 | - Yeah, yeah, she's like,

01:08:32.440 | "I never wanna sit on a cold toilet again."

01:08:34.600 | Oh, the toilet, it's got water, it cleans itself.

01:08:37.480 | But you know, in terms of being cheap,

01:08:38.480 | it's easy to not be cheap if you have money.

01:08:41.080 | But I've also interviewed Larry Janeski,

01:08:42.920 | whose company does $600 million a year in basements,

01:08:45.600 | who just recently, he's I think in his 50s,

01:08:48.040 | he just recently started flying first class.

01:08:50.400 | He didn't share his number exactly.

01:08:51.600 | I'm guessing it's at least worth $100 million, liquid.

01:08:55.080 | He just got a flying economy.

01:08:56.960 | Now, again, for me in COVID, I realized,

01:09:00.520 | okay, I'm not sure how long I'm gonna live here.

01:09:03.560 | Let me try and experiment different things in my life

01:09:06.040 | and see how much of a difference it makes.

01:09:07.920 | 'Cause I was always taught that materialism is bad,

01:09:09.920 | and if you get more, you're gonna be unhappy,

01:09:11.400 | and then you become a victim to it.

01:09:13.640 | And so I tried buying a fancy car.

01:09:16.080 | I hated it.

01:09:17.000 | I sold it for a loss after a month.

01:09:19.120 | And then I tried renting fancy houses.

01:09:20.520 | I rented like this Malibu beach house, which was insane.

01:09:23.760 | That was super cool.

01:09:24.600 | 'Cause during COVID, everything was like really cheap.

01:09:26.520 | And then I rented a lake house in Austin.

01:09:27.960 | Then I rented a nice RV.

01:09:29.200 | And then I came back home to my 800 foot shack

01:09:31.720 | that literally just flooded last night,

01:09:33.880 | that has cockroaches and the floors are cracked

01:09:36.400 | and the walls are cracked.

01:09:38.560 | It has electricity and toilets.

01:09:39.600 | So by the way, it's not horrible, but it's pretty bad.

01:09:42.800 | And because I tried fancier things and nicer things,

01:09:46.320 | I was like, wow, I was much happier there.

01:09:48.160 | And I would say my standard of happiness has been,

01:09:51.160 | the baseline is significantly higher

01:09:52.600 | since I moved into this house.

01:09:54.200 | - Yeah, I mean, I love this lesson.

01:09:55.400 | Go try out the ways to spend money

01:09:57.620 | because you'll never know which ones make a difference.

01:10:00.280 | - You know what a rich thing for me is, buying Fiji water.

01:10:02.760 | I don't know why, I've actually blind taste tested them

01:10:05.160 | and I never choose Fiji.

01:10:06.620 | So I clearly don't give a crap about the taste of it,

01:10:09.680 | but it makes me feel rich.

01:10:10.680 | And it's like, okay, cool, that mattered to me.

01:10:12.680 | Let's do that, or bicycles.

01:10:14.080 | I think the easy way to spend money

01:10:15.480 | is where you spend your time.

01:10:16.600 | I bike a lot.

01:10:17.440 | So I have two identical $15,000 bicycles

01:10:19.880 | in America and in Spain.

01:10:21.200 | Or your bed, you spend a lot of time there.

01:10:23.040 | The thing that ultimately transformed it

01:10:24.560 | was one line in my yearly goals.

01:10:27.280 | And it's a goal every year to donate at least 1%

01:10:31.560 | or spend the rest of my money on myself or others.

01:10:34.640 | And that one goal, which I look at my goals often,

01:10:37.280 | transformed my own generosity to myself and others.

01:10:41.300 | And now it's a lot easier.

01:10:42.800 | Yesterday, I literally got an email.

01:10:43.920 | It's like, I was donating to this camp I went to as a kid,

01:10:46.240 | $180 a year.

01:10:47.900 | And they sent me a receipt.

01:10:48.880 | They're like, oh, you've been donating $180 a month.

01:10:51.480 | I was like, oh, okay.

01:10:53.960 | Well, that's part of my 1%, that's fine.

01:10:56.160 | And so whatever I make in the year,

01:10:57.240 | at least be open to investing in myself,

01:11:00.020 | spending in others, or donating.

01:11:01.680 | And that definitely has been powerful.

01:11:03.480 | - So you mentioned your goals.

01:11:04.800 | How do you set goals?

01:11:05.880 | - I think with goal setting,

01:11:07.400 | I'd break it down really simply.

01:11:08.560 | One, try to have goals that you stick to each year.

01:11:10.560 | And each year, they just get a little bit more on the goal.

01:11:12.760 | So my goals every year in the past, it would be like,

01:11:15.240 | okay, I did X, now let me go do Y.

01:11:16.980 | No, just do X plus 0.1.

01:11:19.160 | And then next year, do X plus 0.2.

01:11:21.480 | So that was definitely a transformation

01:11:23.240 | that helped me in my goals.

01:11:24.080 | And then I like breaking my goals down in categories.

01:11:26.160 | And I look at my goals, I'll show you.

01:11:27.720 | I have them everywhere.

01:11:29.040 | So on my phone, I have a thing called Daily that's pinned.

01:11:31.440 | And it's just all the goals that I have for this year.

01:11:33.360 | And so I'd recommend people have four categories,

01:11:35.000 | work, health, personal, and travel.

01:11:37.240 | And then try to think about what are three things

01:11:38.960 | in each of these things that you'd really, really like.

01:11:40.760 | And the easy way that you could find this out,

01:11:43.480 | and this is what I like to do,

01:11:45.440 | I've done this on a few decades since working for me,

01:11:47.200 | is write your fantasy.

01:11:48.920 | So create a fantasy novel of the year.

01:11:50.840 | Just go to your journal in the morning and be like,

01:11:52.120 | okay, if it's the end of December 31st, 2024,

01:11:54.640 | this year, 2020, whatever, what does my fantasy look like?

01:11:57.920 | All right, I was on Joe Rogan.

01:11:59.600 | All right, all the hacks finally I posted on LinkedIn.

01:12:02.960 | I'm a LinkedIn influencer, which LinkedIn is pretty annoying.

01:12:05.760 | Let's just be real, super annoying.

01:12:07.600 | No, I took my wife on a baby moon to the Maldives,

01:12:09.720 | which seems like a far flight.

01:12:10.920 | So let's go somewhere else.

01:12:11.760 | Maybe, I don't know, Tenerife, who knows.

01:12:14.240 | I want to bike across the Alps.

01:12:16.880 | Right, and you make this crazy story of yourself.

01:12:18.760 | And then sit with it for a little bit.

01:12:20.480 | And then think about, okay, what would be really cool?

01:12:22.960 | What are these, do I really, am I genuinely motivated?

01:12:25.600 | And then I try to have three per each of these categories.

01:12:29.000 | And I like sharing mine with others.

01:12:30.760 | I have an accountability partner,

01:12:32.000 | Adam Gilbert from mybodytutor.com.

01:12:34.000 | And then I review them every single Sunday

01:12:36.000 | as part of that weekly review thing I do.

01:12:37.680 | - Love it.

01:12:38.520 | All right, so we've gone through so much,

01:12:40.840 | and I want to inspire people to go and do something.

01:12:44.300 | Doesn't have to be this weekend, but some weekend.

01:12:46.640 | I got a chance to read the book before it comes out,

01:12:48.740 | but I highly encourage people to check it out.

01:12:50.520 | Where do you want to send people to check out more

01:12:52.600 | of everything you're working on or the book?

01:12:54.440 | - Yeah, milliondollarweekend.com.

01:12:55.880 | Take the 48-hour challenge.

01:12:57.180 | It's the same thing with diets.

01:12:58.080 | There's never a good time for a diet.

01:13:00.080 | (laughs)

01:13:01.300 | And it's easy to keep giving excuses

01:13:04.000 | about why it's not right.

01:13:05.120 | And I think if people even committed an hour

01:13:07.200 | this upcoming weekend, it would be surprising and amazing

01:13:09.940 | how far ahead they can be and what they can do

01:13:12.240 | in just a very short amount of time.

01:13:13.840 | - I love it.

01:13:14.660 | Thanks for sharing it with me.

01:13:15.500 | Thanks for being here.

01:13:16.400 | - I'll see you at my house.

01:13:17.720 | I guess you're coming over.

01:13:19.160 | - Yeah, yeah.

01:13:20.000 | We'll see.

01:13:21.000 | Unannounced, knock knock.

01:13:22.400 | I like your house.

01:13:23.240 | - Yeah.

01:13:24.080 | (upbeat music)

01:13:25.440 | - That was so great.

01:13:26.440 | Noah is amazing.

01:13:27.500 | And I think I'm going to try to adopt his now not how mantra

01:13:30.520 | for my life and business.

01:13:32.400 | I hope you all enjoyed this episode.

01:13:34.280 | If you're one of the few people who haven't left a review

01:13:36.320 | on Apple Podcasts, now would be a great time to leave one

01:13:39.200 | for two reasons.

01:13:40.240 | One, it looks like we are right on the cusp

01:13:42.480 | of a 4.8 rating rounding up to 4.9.

01:13:45.840 | And two, we're about to launch a new website

01:13:48.400 | that's actually going to feature some of your reviews

01:13:50.520 | on the website.

01:13:51.600 | So thank you all in advance.

01:13:53.560 | That's it for this week.

01:13:54.780 | I will see you next week.

01:13:56.080 | (upbeat music)

01:13:58.660 | I want to tell you about another podcast I love

01:14:02.040 | that goes deep on all things money.

01:14:04.340 | That means everything from money hacks

01:14:06.000 | to wealth building to early retirement.

01:14:08.160 | It's called the Personal Finance Podcast.

01:14:10.320 | And it's much more about building generational wealth

01:14:13.200 | and spending your money on the things you value

01:14:15.440 | than it is about clipping coupons to save a dollar.

01:14:18.360 | It's hosted by my good friend, Andrew,

01:14:20.300 | who truly believes that everyone in this world

01:14:22.520 | can build wealth and his passion and excitement

01:14:25.160 | are what make this show so entertaining.

01:14:27.640 | I know because I was a guest on the show in December, 2022,

01:14:31.480 | but recently I listened to an episode

01:14:33.520 | where Andrew shared 16 money stats that will blow your mind.

01:14:37.040 | And it was so crazy to learn things like 35% of millennials

01:14:40.700 | are not participating in their employer's retirement plan.

01:14:43.800 | And that's just one of the many fascinating stats he shared.

01:14:47.480 | The Personal Finance Podcast has something for everyone.

01:14:50.120 | It's filled with so many tips and tactics and hacks

01:14:52.820 | to help you get better with your money and grow your wealth.

01:14:55.720 | So I highly recommend you check it out.

01:14:57.720 | Just search for the Personal Finance Podcast

01:15:00.080 | on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

01:15:01.760 | or wherever you listen to podcasts and enjoy.