ATHLLC6825806882
00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)
00:00:02.560 | - Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks,
00:00:05.280 | a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.
00:00:08.080 | If you're new here, I'm Chris Hutchins,
00:00:09.840 | and today I'm talking with Matt Kepnes,
00:00:11.980 | better known as Nomadic Matt.
00:00:13.840 | In the early 2000s, he accidentally became
00:00:16.220 | one of the OG travel bloggers after saving money,
00:00:18.840 | quitting his job, and backpacking around the world.
00:00:21.440 | For almost two decades, he's been traveling,
00:00:23.380 | writing about it, and sharing how traveler is easier,
00:00:25.960 | cheaper, and more life-enriching than more people realize.
00:00:28.600 | He wrote the New York Times bestselling
00:00:29.920 | "How to Travel the World" on $50 a day,
00:00:32.120 | and later, after more than a decade of travels,
00:00:34.540 | he wrote a memoir called "10 Years a Nomad."
00:00:37.120 | We're gonna talk about why travel
00:00:38.500 | doesn't have to cost as much as you think,
00:00:40.320 | how travel changes after doing it for as long as Matt has,
00:00:43.660 | what to do if you get burnt out on travel.
00:00:45.780 | We'll get some of Matt's favorite tactics for travels,
00:00:48.080 | and discuss whether $50 a day is really enough.
00:00:50.840 | We'll also talk about why travel insurance
00:00:52.700 | is one of the most important elements of a good trip,
00:00:55.640 | which Matt knows firsthand from a crazy experience
00:00:58.600 | he'll share about getting stabbed abroad,
00:01:00.560 | and a lot more than that.
00:01:01.880 | So let's get started right after this.
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00:02:53.640 | (upbeat music)
00:02:56.520 | Matt, welcome to the show.
00:02:58.760 | - Thanks for having me.
00:02:59.600 | As always, it's fun to be here.
00:03:01.480 | - Well, I have a lot of questions.
00:03:02.960 | I'll special shout out All The Hacks member, Alyssa,
00:03:05.920 | who sent in a ton of topics to discuss,
00:03:08.840 | but I wanna just start off asking
00:03:10.800 | what you think the biggest misconception
00:03:12.500 | people have about travel is.
00:03:14.400 | - I mean, I think the obvious answer, at least to me,
00:03:16.360 | is that people think it's expensive.
00:03:18.720 | I think less so now because so much is on social media,
00:03:22.880 | and there's so many blogs, and it's talked about.
00:03:25.920 | The vast majority of people will say,
00:03:28.360 | "Well, they don't really have time to travel."
00:03:31.160 | But if you dig, there's always time,
00:03:33.320 | but then they're like, "Oh, I just can't afford it,"
00:03:35.120 | because people think, "Oh, plane tickets
00:03:37.280 | "are expensive, hotels, Airbnb."
00:03:39.480 | They see all these commercials
00:03:40.720 | and this glamorized version of travel on social media,
00:03:44.260 | and they just think, "Well, that's pricing.
00:03:46.940 | "Travel's a luxury item, right?
00:03:49.340 | "It's not a must-have thing.
00:03:51.840 | "It's something you do to relax, to take a break."
00:03:55.760 | And so there's this perception that this is expensive,
00:04:00.240 | when it doesn't have to be because you always
00:04:04.240 | can go over to wherever you're going
00:04:05.880 | and just do the local things,
00:04:07.520 | and the local things cost a non-touristy price.
00:04:11.640 | If you ask people, like,
00:04:13.220 | "Well, how much do you spend on your own life?"
00:04:16.280 | people have these very way-off estimates.
00:04:20.520 | They're on the lower end.
00:04:21.800 | But if you get people to record all their expenses,
00:04:24.760 | even like, "Oh, I bought a water bottle.
00:04:26.820 | "That's a couple bucks, right?"
00:04:28.280 | Yeah, but you don't think about it.
00:04:29.720 | People actually spend a lot more than they think they do,
00:04:33.480 | and then when you balance that
00:04:34.640 | versus the price of travel, it's oftentimes cheaper.
00:04:37.880 | - I live in the Bay Area,
00:04:38.860 | so anywhere in the world I would go
00:04:40.940 | has to be probably cheaper, except maybe Tokyo.
00:04:43.440 | Life other places is cheaper.
00:04:45.840 | I experienced this actually,
00:04:48.320 | it was probably almost 15 years ago.
00:04:50.880 | We traveled for eight months,
00:04:52.320 | and we rented our place out at home,
00:04:54.560 | and we broke even or even came out slightly ahead
00:04:58.560 | because it turns out we were spending more
00:05:00.480 | to live in the Bay Area than we were spending to travel.
00:05:03.240 | But I wanna get into some of those costs,
00:05:05.720 | some of the ways you save money,
00:05:07.040 | some of the tactics you have,
00:05:08.720 | but I kind of wanna get started
00:05:10.320 | and just ask how travel has changed for you.
00:05:13.340 | I know you have been in this industry
00:05:15.440 | for longer than many,
00:05:16.840 | and by industry I mean writing
00:05:18.600 | and sharing your travels online.
00:05:20.960 | You wrote a memoir about what you've learned
00:05:23.040 | after being a nomad for a decade.
00:05:25.560 | How have things evolved for you personally
00:05:27.320 | and in the industry?
00:05:28.680 | - I started this when I was 25.
00:05:31.040 | I started traveling the world,
00:05:32.240 | and I'm 42 this year.
00:05:34.920 | And so obviously my days of cheap meals
00:05:37.920 | and 12-bed hostel dorms is long gone.
00:05:42.360 | I like nice food.
00:05:45.400 | Since I work when I travel,
00:05:47.160 | having a place to work is really important.
00:05:49.360 | I haven't been getting a lot of good sleep is important,
00:05:53.240 | so I tend to get my own room, hotels.
00:05:56.400 | I take a lot more paid walking tours or food tours.
00:05:59.560 | And so for me the biggest thing
00:06:02.200 | is that my accommodation is a lot nicer,
00:06:06.200 | and I take more paid activities,
00:06:08.160 | whereas when I was 25 it was all about the free stuff,
00:06:11.160 | the hostel dorms, cooking your own meals.
00:06:13.520 | I still consider myself a backpacker budget traveler.
00:06:17.960 | You know, I take public transportation
00:06:20.880 | and love street food.
00:06:22.120 | I still do parks and local things
00:06:25.680 | and go to the markets and all that jazz.
00:06:28.720 | I'm not a resort guy.
00:06:30.200 | I don't really do luxury.
00:06:31.440 | I mean, it's nice, but it feels very isolating to me.
00:06:34.360 | So that's the biggest thing that for me has changed
00:06:38.240 | is sort of probably the nicer digs.
00:06:40.680 | And then how has travel changed?
00:06:42.560 | I think travel has become a lot more accessible
00:06:44.800 | than when I started traveling,
00:06:47.800 | both the ability to do it
00:06:49.680 | and the ability to find information.
00:06:52.120 | When I started traveling,
00:06:53.400 | the internet was just sort of taking off
00:06:55.880 | as a means of like finding information
00:06:58.200 | in the sense that you had like forums
00:07:00.480 | and like blogs and all these places
00:07:02.800 | you can go to ask questions about
00:07:05.160 | where do I find this hostel?
00:07:06.520 | How do I do this thing?
00:07:07.560 | And so I was still primarily using guidebooks
00:07:10.640 | as well as just asking around,
00:07:13.200 | but between social media and the advent of so many blogs,
00:07:17.880 | there's nothing you can't learn
00:07:20.080 | with a quick Google search.
00:07:21.280 | There's no hidden restaurant, this hidden town.
00:07:25.000 | Like, oh, have you been?
00:07:25.840 | Yeah, there are places that are more well-known
00:07:28.840 | than anywhere else,
00:07:30.480 | but there's no place that's unknown
00:07:32.120 | in the age of the internet.
00:07:33.360 | Somebody has been there
00:07:34.480 | and they posted an Instagram from there.
00:07:37.080 | No matter like what little town it is,
00:07:39.440 | no matter where it is.
00:07:40.800 | And so that is really great
00:07:42.880 | because it demystifies a lot of the travel experience.
00:07:47.120 | It allows people to become more comfortable with going.
00:07:50.800 | It's not so much of like you're going into the unknown.
00:07:53.600 | It's like, oh, okay, I've heard of this place.
00:07:55.680 | I've heard of this thing.
00:07:57.560 | So maybe I'll go there.
00:07:58.840 | Even if you're like so scared
00:08:00.720 | 'cause you're going to a place you've never been,
00:08:02.920 | it's no longer like this fog out there.
00:08:05.760 | And then the advent of all these budget airlines
00:08:08.120 | and everything has made it just a lot cheaper
00:08:09.960 | for people to travel.
00:08:11.760 | - Sometimes one of the ways that I get inspiration
00:08:13.720 | is I'll just search on YouTube
00:08:14.960 | and it's like, okay, well, what's this place like?
00:08:17.160 | It's like, here's a video of a person
00:08:18.160 | walking down the street
00:08:19.120 | and you can get a really visceral feeling
00:08:21.000 | for what it's like to be there.
00:08:22.120 | And I remember when we first went to South and East Africa,
00:08:26.520 | I had this one Brat travel guide that was from 1998
00:08:30.320 | because we were traveling for long enough
00:08:31.880 | that I couldn't bring a book for each country.
00:08:34.200 | So I was like, this was the one.
00:08:35.840 | You don't get a lot of feeling
00:08:36.880 | about what you're about to embark on there.
00:08:38.520 | It was more of a directory.
00:08:40.040 | And out of date, significantly.
00:08:42.080 | - Yeah.
00:08:43.080 | Yeah, guidebooks, even in the best of times,
00:08:45.160 | are usually a year and a half behind what's going on.
00:08:49.200 | I never have used guidebooks as a price guide,
00:08:52.440 | just more of a rough guide.
00:08:54.560 | - I think they're great about here's the part of town
00:08:56.520 | to look for, here's some ideas of how transportation works.
00:08:59.680 | But I'm curious, you said now that you've gotten older,
00:09:02.600 | have done this a while, your digs have gone up.
00:09:04.680 | You wrote the book.
00:09:05.760 | People have referenced it in many ways
00:09:07.560 | about being like the guide for backpacking,
00:09:10.280 | about traveling the world on $50 a day.
00:09:13.160 | Do you think that still holds
00:09:14.360 | both in today's world inflation pandemic
00:09:17.240 | and as people age and want to experience travel
00:09:20.560 | not in a hostel with 12 beds?
00:09:22.960 | - Yes and no.
00:09:23.800 | That book was never about the number.
00:09:25.160 | A lot of people would get caught up on that.
00:09:27.320 | Like, oh, 50 bucks.
00:09:28.640 | Good luck doing Norway at 50 bucks.
00:09:31.760 | You're traveling the world at $50 a day.
00:09:34.480 | So it's a daily average.
00:09:35.800 | Some places, totally.
00:09:38.080 | Especially post COVID, strong dollar.
00:09:41.200 | India is still very cheap.
00:09:42.760 | Parts of Central America, Southeast Asia,
00:09:46.400 | Eastern Europe, still very cheap.
00:09:48.000 | But your average place for a hostel in Western Europe
00:09:51.920 | is probably 30 euros now a night.
00:09:54.480 | So it's very rare to see dorm beds, 10 euros, 15 euros.
00:09:58.680 | They're still out there, but they're harder to find
00:10:02.040 | and they're less common.
00:10:03.120 | And the beds are probably gonna be like 20 beds.
00:10:05.320 | And I am going to redo this book
00:10:07.320 | probably for a post COVID, post inflation world.
00:10:10.440 | I'd probably up it to like a 65, $70 a day average.
00:10:14.960 | If you're doing the quintessential round the world trip,
00:10:19.440 | going to Europe, Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand,
00:10:23.080 | South and Central America.
00:10:24.880 | And if you're coming from the US,
00:10:27.720 | that's going to be even better
00:10:29.800 | because the US dollar is so strong.
00:10:31.600 | Will that stay?
00:10:32.680 | Who knows?
00:10:33.520 | When I planned my original trip around the world,
00:10:36.080 | I remember it was one US dollar
00:10:38.520 | got you a $1.30 Australian.
00:10:41.280 | So that's what my budget was based off of.
00:10:43.480 | And by the time I got there, it was one-to-one.
00:10:46.200 | So I lost 30% of my budget because of that.
00:10:51.200 | I had to readjust everything.
00:10:53.200 | So it's less about the number and more about the style,
00:10:57.000 | like the tips and tricks.
00:10:59.200 | If you're just looking for ways to travel cheap,
00:11:02.160 | forget about the number,
00:11:03.480 | just use the strategies in the book.
00:11:06.440 | - Okay.
00:11:07.280 | So let's talk about some of those strategies
00:11:08.480 | 'cause I liked how you actually broke it down.
00:11:10.680 | It wasn't just, there are a bunch of strategies,
00:11:12.880 | go have a great trip.
00:11:13.920 | It's here's what you specifically need to know.
00:11:16.080 | So how would you walk someone through
00:11:18.760 | the high level of planning a trip like this
00:11:21.920 | with the goal to do it on a budget?
00:11:23.760 | What are the kind of key strategies
00:11:25.240 | you think people need to follow?
00:11:26.440 | - I think the biggest thing for people is one, travel slow.
00:11:29.840 | The more you can sort of spread out your costs,
00:11:32.560 | the better it will be.
00:11:33.600 | If you're moving around a lot,
00:11:34.800 | you're gonna have high transportation costs
00:11:36.520 | and that really can eat into a lot of people's budgets.
00:11:39.200 | But the big thing is just really being flexible
00:11:41.440 | because if you can wait for that deal to come,
00:11:44.360 | then you're not tied into like,
00:11:45.640 | I have to get this flight on this day to this destination.
00:11:49.320 | One of the benefits of long-term travel
00:11:51.680 | is that you're in no rush to do anything.
00:11:53.760 | You can wait for that flight deal, that hotel deal,
00:11:56.720 | or you can find a flight deal or a hotel deal
00:11:59.000 | and be like, that's where we're going next
00:12:00.520 | because that's where it's cheapest.
00:12:02.400 | And so big picture, always be flexible.
00:12:07.320 | Second big picture thing is to travel like you live.
00:12:10.640 | You in your daily life cook food,
00:12:13.280 | you don't eat expensive food all the time, restaurants,
00:12:16.600 | you look for free activities,
00:12:18.120 | you take public transportation, you go for walks.
00:12:20.520 | Do the same when you travel.
00:12:22.660 | If you really wanna get a taste of local life,
00:12:25.320 | go to the local farmer's market,
00:12:27.120 | go take the train or the bus,
00:12:29.680 | go for a walk, sit in a park.
00:12:31.760 | Travel doesn't always have to be about doing things.
00:12:34.520 | It can be more about just existing in a place
00:12:37.480 | and soaking up the vibe.
00:12:39.440 | And so if you travel like you live,
00:12:42.980 | you're gonna end up doing all the things that locals do
00:12:45.660 | because what people do in Berlin
00:12:49.160 | isn't different than what people do in the Bay Area or Austin.
00:12:52.480 | Everyone gets up and goes to work and takes a train
00:12:54.740 | and goes grocery shopping and lives their day-to-day life
00:12:58.220 | and then walks and maybe sits by the river.
00:13:01.820 | They do something, sit in the park, do those things.
00:13:04.820 | - Let's pause for a second
00:13:05.780 | and go back to a kind of more macro question.
00:13:08.280 | When it comes to travel, why do you love travel?
00:13:10.860 | What is it about travel that makes it something
00:13:13.500 | that you've now, I guess,
00:13:14.520 | dedicated your entire professional career to
00:13:16.780 | and something you've spent decades of your life doing?
00:13:20.020 | - I don't like to be bored.
00:13:21.220 | I guess that's one reason.
00:13:23.340 | When you're traveling, you're always doing something.
00:13:25.660 | I like mastering my own time.
00:13:28.220 | I mean, this is an accidental career.
00:13:31.700 | The goal was never to start a company.
00:13:33.860 | It was just to keep traveling for as long as possible
00:13:37.860 | so that I could have my own time, have my own schedule,
00:13:42.500 | do everything I wanted to do,
00:13:44.020 | just get out there and go explore and see the world.
00:13:47.300 | The world is a book, right?
00:13:48.300 | But the world is also a puzzle.
00:13:50.700 | And every place you go to adds one more piece.
00:13:53.740 | It's an unsolvable puzzle.
00:13:55.900 | You'll never finish it in your lifetime,
00:13:58.740 | but you just keep adding more to it.
00:14:00.620 | I just find people interesting.
00:14:02.780 | I'm also deeply interested in history and politics.
00:14:05.380 | And so going over to places
00:14:06.780 | and learning about why they do things
00:14:08.740 | is just fascinating to me.
00:14:10.500 | - It sounds like a lot of those things
00:14:11.620 | aren't always the paid tour, the Michelin star meals.
00:14:16.060 | Finding the joy of travel
00:14:17.340 | that isn't what you saw on Instagram,
00:14:19.780 | I think can often make for the experience.
00:14:21.980 | So I'm curious,
00:14:22.900 | when you're trying to find those experiences,
00:14:24.460 | when you're trying to meet people,
00:14:26.420 | what do you do to connect with people?
00:14:28.460 | I think in today's world,
00:14:30.740 | people are maybe a little more closed off
00:14:32.780 | than they were 20 years ago
00:14:34.020 | because they have their phone to distract them at a bar.
00:14:36.420 | It seems harder to meet people.
00:14:38.260 | Have you found ways to keep that kind of vibe going,
00:14:41.100 | especially now that you're not in the hostel,
00:14:42.780 | you might be in your own private room?
00:14:44.460 | - Well, one of the reasons I still love hostels
00:14:46.460 | is even though I'm in my own private room,
00:14:48.500 | I'm in a hostel, you still get the vibe, right?
00:14:51.780 | So you can still go to the common area.
00:14:53.620 | I think the opposite is actually true.
00:14:55.900 | I think the internet has made it easier to meet people.
00:14:59.020 | True, people are glued to their phone,
00:15:01.020 | especially in the hostel,
00:15:02.940 | in a way that wasn't true in 2006 when I started traveling.
00:15:07.940 | But there's so many apps and ways to meet people
00:15:12.380 | through couch surfing, social media,
00:15:15.820 | Instagram, Facebook groups, BumbleBFF, meetup.com,
00:15:20.460 | walk-in tours, bar crawls.
00:15:23.180 | Like there's lots of ways to meet people
00:15:26.060 | and the internet has actually made it easier to meet people
00:15:29.020 | if you're open to it.
00:15:30.780 | And I think people are a lot more open
00:15:33.100 | to just meeting a stranger online.
00:15:35.620 | It's not weird to like,
00:15:36.860 | oh, there's a cool meetup happening.
00:15:39.220 | I'm just gonna walk over to it 'cause I'm new here.
00:15:42.420 | - Is there any kind of mental checklist
00:15:44.500 | or things you do before you're going to a new place
00:15:47.100 | to try to connect with people, figure out what to do?
00:15:50.220 | What resources do you use to kind of crowdsource ideas
00:15:53.820 | of things that you might spend your time on?
00:15:55.460 | I know you do say leave a lot of your time open
00:15:57.220 | for serendipity, so maybe the answer is none,
00:15:59.700 | but I'm curious what kind of research you do in advance.
00:16:01.980 | - Very little, maybe read a couple of blog posts,
00:16:04.420 | bookmark a few restaurants.
00:16:06.340 | I try to just go there and see where the day takes me.
00:16:09.900 | Instagram, my Twitter feed.
00:16:12.660 | If I'm in the mood to meet people,
00:16:14.740 | like in the sense that like,
00:16:16.820 | I want to actively like make sure there's people around me,
00:16:20.180 | I'll either stay at a hostel
00:16:21.780 | or I'll look at like a expat Facebook group
00:16:25.060 | or meetup.com or something
00:16:26.860 | and see what's going on while I'm there.
00:16:28.700 | Since I travel a lot for work,
00:16:30.900 | and so like my travels are about like
00:16:33.060 | getting the price of food
00:16:34.660 | because we have to write a guide to it.
00:16:36.460 | It really depends on like,
00:16:37.500 | am I there for research purposes or am I there for fun?
00:16:40.860 | So if I'm there at a destination,
00:16:43.300 | 'cause we're gonna write about it,
00:16:44.940 | I have a mission, I stick to it.
00:16:47.380 | Yeah, you know, if I chat up locals
00:16:49.340 | and they're like, "Come to this thing."
00:16:50.620 | I'll be like, "Okay, sure."
00:16:51.780 | But like my mind isn't like,
00:16:53.340 | "I'm gonna go join this group
00:16:54.900 | to like see if there's like a cool event going on."
00:16:57.860 | But if I'm there for fun, I most likely will do that.
00:17:00.580 | - Getting the crew together isn't as easy as it used to be.
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00:19:48.720 | Any memorable experiences that have come
00:19:52.120 | from random joining things
00:19:54.680 | that you just found on the internet?
00:19:56.640 | - I joined a couple of couchsurfing groups
00:19:58.480 | when I lived in Paris a few years back,
00:20:01.600 | and those people became my friends
00:20:03.640 | for the entire time I lived there.
00:20:06.000 | Back in the day, during the MySpace era,
00:20:09.320 | I met a bunch of people in a Thailand travel group,
00:20:12.240 | and we ended up traveling around Southeast Asia
00:20:14.200 | for like three months together, so that was fun.
00:20:17.480 | - Our travels were at a similar time in life,
00:20:21.000 | and it was the Lonely Planet forums.
00:20:23.120 | - Yes, yeah. - Where we would just post,
00:20:25.200 | "Hey, we're in South Africa."
00:20:26.480 | We ended up meeting these two guys from Sweden,
00:20:28.240 | and we ended up renting a car, buying a tent,
00:20:31.200 | and all this stuff together,
00:20:32.280 | and we basically camped in a tent with them
00:20:34.680 | driving around Namibia, Botswana,
00:20:36.840 | and South Africa for three weeks,
00:20:38.320 | so I think that's still possible.
00:20:40.560 | It just sounds like you gotta find
00:20:42.040 | a few different places to find people.
00:20:43.760 | - Yeah, we do events here in Austin,
00:20:46.560 | and somebody came to one and said,
00:20:48.360 | "Oh, how long have you been reading the blog?"
00:20:50.360 | 'Cause I just assumed they had come 'cause I was there,
00:20:53.240 | and it's part of our blog thing.
00:20:55.120 | And she was like, "I just found this event on Eventbrite.
00:20:58.400 | "I don't know what this is."
00:20:59.840 | And I was like, "Oh, that's really cool."
00:21:01.520 | She's like, "I'm just passing through."
00:21:02.360 | And I was like, "Super, well, welcome."
00:21:04.960 | - I remember after six or so months,
00:21:07.800 | I kind of was ready for something different,
00:21:10.080 | and we were doing some slow travel.
00:21:11.480 | I'm curious, you did it for a decade.
00:21:14.000 | What did you do to avoid getting burnt out about travel?
00:21:17.120 | - It's impossible not to get burnt out.
00:21:19.120 | You will get bored at some point.
00:21:20.680 | You will get tired, you will get burnt out.
00:21:23.040 | If you're just doing long-term travel,
00:21:24.760 | it becomes your day-to-day life, right?
00:21:26.360 | And eventually, you need a break from that.
00:21:28.320 | In your day-to-day life, you take a break,
00:21:30.080 | you go on vacation.
00:21:32.000 | If travel life, you kind of just sit in one place
00:21:35.200 | and recharge your battery.
00:21:36.600 | Travel is a battery.
00:21:37.600 | It's not some unlimited wellspring of energy.
00:21:40.720 | You need to rest at some point
00:21:42.480 | because everywhere you go,
00:21:44.360 | you have to relearn how to live, the language,
00:21:47.800 | how to get around, where to eat, where to stay,
00:21:51.360 | local customs, the streets.
00:21:53.760 | You're relearning life every day,
00:21:57.120 | and it's mentally very taxing.
00:21:58.960 | There's a reason why when you drive to work all the time,
00:22:01.680 | you can tune out because it becomes like a routine.
00:22:05.720 | Your mind just goes on autopilot.
00:22:07.600 | When you're traveling, there is no autopilot
00:22:09.440 | because you're relearning everything.
00:22:11.720 | And so eventually, you're just burnt out.
00:22:15.600 | You need a break.
00:22:16.800 | Slow travel can really help that
00:22:18.600 | because you're not really rushing yourself a lot.
00:22:22.080 | You're adjusting to new places at a slower pace,
00:22:26.360 | but even the slowest of travelers,
00:22:28.640 | eventually, you're just like, "I just want to sit."
00:22:31.040 | - Even short trips, I found, can be a lot.
00:22:33.880 | And so sometimes it feels so counterintuitive
00:22:37.760 | to spend an afternoon on a one-week trip,
00:22:41.360 | like watching a movie in your hotel room.
00:22:44.440 | But the amount of energy you can recharge
00:22:47.200 | by just hanging out and relaxing,
00:22:49.680 | I think, is really valuable.
00:22:51.120 | And so I think people very often think,
00:22:53.280 | "Oh, I'm in this country.
00:22:54.240 | "I can't afford to not be doing something every second
00:22:56.640 | "of every day."
00:22:57.480 | But sometimes you start to lose the appreciation for it
00:23:00.760 | if it feels like it's painful and it's work.
00:23:03.080 | So don't be afraid to take a break,
00:23:05.960 | even on a week-long trip, for an afternoon.
00:23:07.920 | - Yeah, and if your goal is to go to Italy for a week
00:23:11.720 | and soak in Italian culture,
00:23:14.400 | spending an afternoon doing nothing
00:23:16.320 | is very much a part of Italian culture.
00:23:18.800 | Go sit at the piazza and just enjoy a cafe
00:23:22.720 | and just sit around and chat and people-watch.
00:23:25.960 | They get a real sense of Italy that way.
00:23:29.080 | - You mentioned customs
00:23:30.600 | and all the learning of a new place.
00:23:32.880 | I've had a few questions from listeners
00:23:34.600 | that ask about going to places that are very unfamiliar,
00:23:37.480 | whether it's the customs or the language.
00:23:40.320 | I'm curious what advice you have to someone.
00:23:43.160 | Maybe they're going somewhere in the Middle East
00:23:44.880 | or in Asia where the customs and the language
00:23:47.480 | are all totally foreign to them.
00:23:49.440 | What would you tell them to do either in advance
00:23:51.760 | or just to help them understand
00:23:53.320 | how it might not be as difficult as they might think?
00:23:56.200 | - Read a book.
00:23:57.440 | You can't really know a place
00:23:58.920 | until you've read something about it.
00:24:01.400 | So I always find reading up about where you're visiting,
00:24:04.480 | a history book if you can,
00:24:06.440 | or even just like a current events book,
00:24:08.560 | something that just sort of gives the insight
00:24:10.240 | into the local culture can be super helpful.
00:24:12.840 | Additionally, like there's so many blogs out there
00:24:14.960 | in the world these days
00:24:16.280 | that you can read like on any subject you want.
00:24:19.760 | And from local writers too.
00:24:21.400 | So like people that live in destination
00:24:24.120 | are now local bloggers.
00:24:25.680 | That can really help you get a sense of place
00:24:28.120 | and understanding.
00:24:29.960 | Also a great way to get food recommendations too.
00:24:32.160 | If you find a local food blogger on Instagram,
00:24:35.000 | their audience is other locals, not tourists.
00:24:37.200 | So you're gonna get all of like the inside info.
00:24:39.440 | - If you have a VPN
00:24:41.360 | and you can connect to an IP in the country,
00:24:43.880 | or maybe you can change your Google search to that country,
00:24:46.080 | you might get a different set of results
00:24:47.560 | than if you're searching for a US IP
00:24:49.880 | or on like Google US search.
00:24:51.600 | So I've sometimes found a better set of results
00:24:54.480 | when I'm searching for stuff online.
00:24:56.040 | Maybe there's a local search engine even,
00:24:57.520 | but if you could try to anchor yourself
00:24:58.840 | to searching within the country,
00:25:00.880 | you get maybe more relevant topics
00:25:04.120 | than the kind of travel guide from the foreigners overseas.
00:25:08.800 | I know one thing that I've heard you talk about
00:25:10.480 | maybe more articulately than I can is about communication.
00:25:14.680 | And I think so many people might assume
00:25:17.560 | that you need to speak a language to go lots of places,
00:25:20.760 | especially if you wanna go off the beaten path.
00:25:23.320 | And so first I'm gonna ask,
00:25:24.360 | how many languages do you actually speak
00:25:26.200 | given that I think you've probably been to,
00:25:28.320 | if not a hundred, close to a hundred countries, I'm guessing.
00:25:31.720 | - I speak pretty good Spanish, decent Thai,
00:25:36.200 | and I can understand and read French,
00:25:39.280 | though my ability to give a reply was very slow.
00:25:43.080 | - But that hasn't held you back
00:25:44.120 | from going to plenty of countries
00:25:47.040 | that don't speak those languages?
00:25:48.280 | - Oh yeah, English is pretty widely spoken,
00:25:50.480 | at least basic English.
00:25:51.960 | Even if you're going off the beaten path, sign language.
00:25:55.160 | Everyone kind of knows the universal
00:25:56.840 | like cluck cluck for chicken, choo choo for train.
00:26:00.160 | People want to help you,
00:26:01.840 | and so you just gotta give them that opportunity
00:26:04.400 | to just be like, this is what I need.
00:26:06.440 | Most communication is nonverbal anyway,
00:26:09.640 | based on like your facial expression
00:26:11.760 | or like how you're miming things or body language.
00:26:15.840 | That can really help people figure out what you need.
00:26:19.200 | So never be afraid,
00:26:21.280 | and there's always Google Translate now.
00:26:24.040 | So like worst case scenario,
00:26:25.960 | you open your phone and you type in
00:26:27.680 | and it kind of gives like a okay translation,
00:26:31.680 | but probably enough to get your point across to people.
00:26:35.880 | - Does it ever feel like cheating to you a little bit,
00:26:37.920 | having been to the type of travel
00:26:39.680 | where you had to rely on so much intuition
00:26:43.120 | or kind of hard work to communicate with people
00:26:45.560 | that didn't speak the language that now it's like,
00:26:47.560 | well, I guess I could just pull out my phone
00:26:49.000 | and type something and it'll be understood by someone
00:26:51.640 | that has no common language threads.
00:26:54.280 | How do you feel about this?
00:26:55.360 | - I don't like it simply because
00:26:56.920 | I don't like pulling out my phone.
00:26:58.160 | In some parts of the world,
00:26:59.160 | that's not always the wisest thing to do.
00:27:01.160 | So I'd rather just do it the old fashioned way,
00:27:04.040 | but I'm an old fuddy duddy, so.
00:27:06.320 | I mean, if there was like an earpiece that did it,
00:27:08.400 | I would probably get that earpiece.
00:27:09.880 | Like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,
00:27:12.080 | where they put that slug in his ear
00:27:13.840 | and he can understand like everything,
00:27:16.640 | that's what I would probably do.
00:27:19.520 | But I don't like pulling out my phone a lot
00:27:22.120 | 'cause then you're always on your phone
00:27:23.760 | and it's like back and forth.
00:27:25.920 | You know, it slows down conversation.
00:27:28.440 | - You mentioned earlier that now
00:27:30.280 | you like to stay in places by yourself,
00:27:32.080 | but you also like to go on a lot more tours
00:27:33.640 | that cost money.
00:27:34.480 | How do you find them?
00:27:35.360 | How do you make sure you don't get caught up
00:27:37.920 | in terrible tours designed for tourists?
00:27:41.440 | Are there review sites?
00:27:42.360 | How do you think about that?
00:27:43.840 | - I do mostly like day walking tours
00:27:46.320 | or a free tour or something like that.
00:27:48.240 | Very rarely do multi-day trips,
00:27:50.440 | but Best Walking Tour in X
00:27:52.360 | is really a pretty good search term.
00:27:54.840 | I'll read a couple of blog posts
00:27:56.800 | and if the same company appears in a couple
00:28:01.280 | and their tours look good and reasonably priced,
00:28:04.120 | I'll probably pick them.
00:28:05.080 | You know, you can see star rating.
00:28:06.520 | So like 17,000 people on TripAdvisor are like,
00:28:09.600 | this is four stars.
00:28:10.960 | And then like three writers on blogs are like,
00:28:13.760 | I took this tour and it was really good
00:28:15.240 | and I wasn't paid to say that.
00:28:16.960 | And you're like, okay, maybe it's pretty good.
00:28:18.880 | - It's always good to look for the,
00:28:20.200 | my unbiased opinion of,
00:28:22.160 | I find that to be a helpful search term
00:28:24.520 | for almost any product.
00:28:25.640 | You're like unbiased opinion, XYZ mattress.
00:28:28.640 | Is there any place you've been
00:28:29.760 | where you've actually found that
00:28:31.440 | just sign language and English weren't enough?
00:28:34.160 | And to be clear, when we say sign language,
00:28:35.840 | we're not talking, you know,
00:28:37.160 | ASL, professional sign communication.
00:28:39.880 | We're talking to more hand miming and gestures,
00:28:42.440 | but are there places you've found
00:28:43.920 | that it's actually been very difficult
00:28:45.080 | to get around and communicate?
00:28:46.960 | - No, not really.
00:28:48.200 | Maybe I haven't been to enough places
00:28:50.520 | that are like so off the beaten path,
00:28:52.240 | but I've always found that miming
00:28:55.160 | and like sign language gets you far enough.
00:28:58.760 | - I wanna go back to some of the tactics,
00:29:00.480 | especially around what you travel with.
00:29:02.480 | I know you're a fan of a backpack,
00:29:03.720 | but nowadays what are the things that you take on every trip?
00:29:07.680 | Not the obvious things.
00:29:08.720 | I'm sure you bring a toothbrush,
00:29:09.720 | but what are the things that people might be packing
00:29:13.360 | that are different from how you pack?
00:29:15.120 | - I honestly don't take much stuff with me
00:29:18.400 | because I started at a time where you didn't need a lot.
00:29:20.920 | And so if I ever need something, like an umbrella,
00:29:25.520 | I'll buy it.
00:29:26.520 | Or if I need medicine, I'll pick it up on the way.
00:29:28.840 | I definitely take a towel,
00:29:30.200 | Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 101.
00:29:32.680 | I always have a towel,
00:29:33.680 | but honestly don't take much stuff.
00:29:35.360 | I mean, I'm not a photographer,
00:29:37.040 | so I just use my phone,
00:29:38.320 | but to me, less is more.
00:29:40.200 | Like what do you need to take?
00:29:41.960 | A couple of clothes, a couple of books,
00:29:43.640 | phone charger, and your phone.
00:29:45.280 | And I take my computer.
00:29:47.280 | I take a notebook to journal, backup credit cards,
00:29:50.680 | and that's really it.
00:29:51.640 | I take a flashlight.
00:29:52.640 | I think a lot of people underestimate the power
00:29:55.240 | of having a flashlight,
00:29:56.240 | especially if you're camping a lot
00:29:58.080 | or just out in rural areas often,
00:30:00.640 | just having that with you is really good.
00:30:03.280 | But other than that, I don't take a lot of gear.
00:30:05.400 | I'm like anti-gear.
00:30:06.720 | I'm also anti-app.
00:30:08.360 | If you're always like, "What apps do you use?"
00:30:09.560 | I'm like, "Google Maps."
00:30:10.960 | That's it.
00:30:12.400 | Like, you don't need anything else.
00:30:14.520 | Get off your phone.
00:30:15.680 | Like, put down your phone.
00:30:16.760 | Use it less.
00:30:17.600 | You don't need it.
00:30:18.640 | - You mentioned backup credit cards.
00:30:20.000 | We could go probably for a while about travel hacking,
00:30:22.640 | but one area I haven't really talked about
00:30:24.440 | is how much do you think about banking and budgeting
00:30:27.560 | and that aspect of it for a long-term trip
00:30:30.080 | where you're gonna need to access money
00:30:32.480 | and you need to pay bills?
00:30:34.040 | Do you do anything differently than you would
00:30:35.800 | if you were living stateside?
00:30:37.880 | - So, like, I'm in this unique position
00:30:40.280 | where, like, I work and travel,
00:30:41.880 | so, like, money comes in
00:30:43.480 | and it's all tax write-off for me.
00:30:45.560 | So I will say that my recommendation for people
00:30:47.840 | is always to have two bank accounts.
00:30:50.760 | Like, if you're an American,
00:30:53.280 | you should definitely have the Charles Schwab ATM card.
00:30:56.520 | There are no bank fees, no ATM fees,
00:30:59.520 | and if you get charged an ATM fee,
00:31:01.200 | they will reimburse your ATM fee.
00:31:03.480 | So I always have money there.
00:31:06.200 | That's my primary card when I travel.
00:31:08.880 | And if you lose it, they'll basically
00:31:11.400 | FedEx it to you anywhere in the world within 48 hours.
00:31:14.240 | But it's always good to have a backup
00:31:15.960 | just in case that gets hacked or something happens
00:31:18.440 | where you can't get it in 48 hours.
00:31:20.880 | So I always carry two, two ATM cards
00:31:24.720 | and at least two credit cards.
00:31:26.480 | Like, I'll carry more than two credit cards
00:31:28.400 | just 'cause I'm an avid travel hacker.
00:31:30.720 | I only ever go out with one.
00:31:32.760 | I only take my ATM card out very rarely.
00:31:36.400 | It's always home and just the cash out that you need.
00:31:39.080 | But that varies by destination.
00:31:40.560 | You know, like, I mean, in Japan,
00:31:42.200 | you can walk around with $10 million in your pocket
00:31:44.680 | and no one's gonna do anything.
00:31:45.880 | Versus, like, I wouldn't walk around Columbia
00:31:48.240 | with, like, a bunch of money or plastic in my pants.
00:31:52.160 | But at least definitely those two.
00:31:53.800 | And for the primary account that I have
00:31:56.920 | in terms of the Charles Schwab card,
00:31:59.720 | I only keep a few thousand dollars in there.
00:32:01.680 | So if somebody were to, like, kidnap me
00:32:05.000 | and say, "Take all the money out,"
00:32:06.920 | it's not gonna drain everything.
00:32:08.480 | There's only a maximum amount they can take.
00:32:10.960 | - What about passport?
00:32:11.800 | Are you bring the passport with you
00:32:13.720 | when you're out and about
00:32:14.640 | or leave it back in the hotel or hostel?
00:32:17.720 | - I always leave it in the hotel or hostel.
00:32:20.600 | - I know I've heard varying opinions here,
00:32:22.640 | which is, like, you always wanna have some form of ID
00:32:24.800 | if something happens, if you get in trouble.
00:32:26.840 | And then the other is, like,
00:32:28.000 | you definitely don't wanna have your passport
00:32:29.640 | lost, dropped, stolen while you're out.
00:32:32.560 | - I bring my driver's license with me everywhere I go
00:32:35.280 | as a form of ID.
00:32:36.440 | Passport stays inside.
00:32:37.880 | The only time I will break that rule
00:32:40.400 | is if it's required for, like, a spot check on the train.
00:32:44.040 | Sometimes in Europe, if you're on a train,
00:32:46.280 | even if you're just, like, going between cities,
00:32:48.680 | there'll be, like, a spot check.
00:32:49.960 | But, like, just going out to, like,
00:32:52.560 | the bar or a restaurant or walking around, no.
00:32:56.680 | And if I were to ever get stopped by the police
00:32:58.720 | and they're like, "Where's your passport?"
00:33:00.480 | And I'd be like, "It's at my hotel.
00:33:02.480 | "Let's go get it."
00:33:03.600 | I guess, like, if you were in a country
00:33:06.080 | that required it and, like, you got stopped
00:33:08.280 | and there was a lot of corruption,
00:33:09.960 | you may have to pay a bribe.
00:33:11.800 | But nobody wants that paperwork.
00:33:13.000 | Like, "Oh, why'd you arrest this guy?
00:33:14.360 | "He didn't have his passport on him."
00:33:16.560 | It's a lot of paperwork for nothing.
00:33:17.920 | The universal rule is cops never wanna do paperwork.
00:33:21.400 | And every country has paperwork.
00:33:23.200 | The best will get a warning.
00:33:24.160 | At the worst, they'll pay a fine, like a bribe.
00:33:27.240 | - A fine. (laughs)
00:33:28.560 | With AirQuest. - Whatever you wanna call it.
00:33:30.840 | - Been in any of those situations?
00:33:32.760 | - No.
00:33:33.600 | - Where you've had to pay a fine/bribe?
00:33:35.960 | - Nope, never.
00:33:37.400 | - Our only one was border crossing from Syria into Lebanon.
00:33:41.800 | And the taxi driver, funny enough,
00:33:44.720 | he was so embarrassed that his country
00:33:48.440 | would be the kind of place where you had to pay a fine
00:33:51.400 | that he paid the fine out of his own fare
00:33:53.680 | because he didn't want us to know about it.
00:33:55.240 | But we were in the car for a few hours.
00:33:56.600 | We asked about it.
00:33:57.440 | And he was like, "Yeah, the way this works is
00:33:59.040 | "if you get to the border and you have foreigners
00:34:00.680 | "and you don't pay a tip,
00:34:02.160 | "then they just hold you here for hours.
00:34:03.640 | "And that causes delays for me and you.
00:34:05.480 | "And our country's terrible at doing this stuff,
00:34:08.000 | "but I'll do it."
00:34:08.840 | So I've never had to do it myself.
00:34:10.360 | But I know the paperwork issue deeply
00:34:14.000 | because my wife was pulled over speeding in Bosnia.
00:34:18.120 | And they were sitting here like, "Oh, this is the fine."
00:34:22.080 | And she was like, "Oh, I don't know."
00:34:23.640 | We just waited it out.
00:34:24.760 | And eventually they were like, "Yeah, you can go
00:34:25.960 | "because we're not gonna try to fill out this paperwork
00:34:28.240 | "for your international driver's license and everything."
00:34:31.720 | I wish I could say I'm eating
00:34:34.200 | a fully balanced diet every day,
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00:37:04.280 | I just wanna thank you, Quik,
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00:37:09.320 | Your support is what keeps this show going.
00:37:12.160 | To get all of the URLs, codes, deals,
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00:37:23.520 | One thing we haven't talked about
00:37:24.840 | that I know you have a pretty strong opinion on
00:37:27.160 | is travel insurance.
00:37:28.440 | What perspective do you have on travel insurance
00:37:30.600 | and its necessity in a day where so many credit cards
00:37:34.560 | have lots of forms of insurance baked into them?
00:37:37.240 | I still think it's very important
00:37:38.680 | just 'cause you get better medical care,
00:37:41.080 | like emergency care.
00:37:42.880 | It's really the only higher-end premium credit cards
00:37:45.680 | with $600 a year, kind of the top-end ones,
00:37:49.480 | but you get really robust travel insurance.
00:37:51.920 | But even then, these aren't travel insurance companies.
00:37:55.160 | The credit cards tacking this on,
00:37:57.720 | they're not really streamlined to process claims
00:38:00.120 | in a way that a company whose only purpose
00:38:03.360 | is travel insurance.
00:38:04.720 | A lot of these credit cards
00:38:05.560 | don't really cover good medical evacuation.
00:38:08.400 | And so if you just want protection on trip interruption
00:38:11.920 | or cancellation or something gets stolen,
00:38:15.480 | the credit card you paid that trip on
00:38:18.120 | is probably good enough.
00:38:19.720 | But if you want actual medical insurance
00:38:22.320 | in case something goes wrong,
00:38:24.000 | you're gonna want something to pay extra for.
00:38:27.120 | And travel insurance isn't that expensive.
00:38:29.320 | So it's like, you're not paying like hundreds of bucks
00:38:31.800 | a month, like you get plans for 50 bucks.
00:38:34.880 | Are there any providers you've used
00:38:36.560 | or what do you use when you travel?
00:38:38.480 | I use a company called Safety Wing.
00:38:40.360 | They're really good.
00:38:41.360 | World Nomads is also really good.
00:38:43.320 | For people having more gear,
00:38:45.760 | Insure Nomads is really good, but pretty expensive.
00:38:48.920 | And then for seniors,
00:38:50.520 | I would definitely recommend Insure My Trip
00:38:53.480 | because not a lot of plans cover people over 70.
00:38:56.920 | Oh, wow.
00:38:57.760 | Okay.
00:38:58.600 | Have you ever had to use travel insurance?
00:39:00.400 | Yeah, yeah.
00:39:01.240 | I used it in Columbia.
00:39:02.280 | I've used it in South Africa when my bag got stolen.
00:39:05.880 | I've used it in Thailand.
00:39:07.320 | So yeah, I've used it quite a number of times.
00:39:09.440 | It's coming very handy.
00:39:10.520 | It's coming handy for friends.
00:39:11.600 | I had a friend break their back in the Amazon
00:39:14.560 | and they had to get airlifted out
00:39:15.960 | and then sent back to Canada
00:39:18.040 | and travel insurance covered the whole thing.
00:39:20.240 | Wow.
00:39:21.080 | I think it's so funny we get caught up
00:39:22.000 | in thinking travel insurance is about my flight got canceled
00:39:25.800 | but it can be about a lot of other things.
00:39:27.960 | I don't know what kind of medical situations
00:39:29.200 | you've ever been in overseas.
00:39:30.680 | They don't end up being that expensive
00:39:32.240 | unless they're very extreme.
00:39:33.560 | And I can assure you that an airlift
00:39:36.000 | from South America to Canada
00:39:38.000 | is not something you want to have to cover on your own.
00:39:40.240 | No, no.
00:39:41.360 | That you do not.
00:39:42.920 | That you do not.
00:39:44.320 | Any situations you've ever been in,
00:39:46.080 | I think sometimes people think,
00:39:47.160 | oh, if I have a bad situation,
00:39:48.360 | I'll never want to travel again.
00:39:50.120 | I assume you've been in a situation
00:39:52.160 | that might scare other people away.
00:39:54.120 | And I'm curious how it affected how you travel
00:39:57.480 | and how or why it didn't stop you from keeping going.
00:40:00.920 | Yeah, you know, I got stabbed in Columbia
00:40:02.840 | and my mother always sends me
00:40:05.200 | like every state department warning about Mexico.
00:40:08.880 | But it's like, hey, we live in the States.
00:40:10.800 | People get gunned down going to Walmart.
00:40:13.440 | There are mass shootings all the time in this country.
00:40:16.560 | Bad things happen.
00:40:17.720 | It's just part of life.
00:40:18.720 | It doesn't matter if you're home or in Mexico
00:40:21.680 | or in Thailand or in Paris or in Japan,
00:40:26.680 | shit happens.
00:40:28.200 | You can live in fear and say,
00:40:29.600 | oh, I'm just gonna never go anywhere.
00:40:31.240 | But then you walk across the street to a movie theater
00:40:35.440 | and then you don't make it out because some psychopath.
00:40:38.600 | Or you get hit by a car on your way to work.
00:40:40.640 | Are you really gonna live in fear about every what if?
00:40:43.160 | If so, then like never leave your house.
00:40:45.240 | If you're up for it,
00:40:46.080 | I'd love to hear the story in Columbia.
00:40:48.240 | And maybe from the perspective of,
00:40:50.320 | I think a lot of people don't really plan for that.
00:40:52.240 | And so they don't know what they would do
00:40:53.200 | in that circumstance.
00:40:54.200 | And I imagine, you know, you're here now.
00:40:55.960 | So it all went well.
00:40:57.960 | How did you know what to do and where did you end up going?
00:41:00.400 | And how did the trip unfold after that?
00:41:02.280 | Yeah, I was in Bogota.
00:41:03.800 | I had my phone out and long story short,
00:41:06.720 | you shouldn't have fancy electronics out.
00:41:09.400 | I just forgot to put it back in before I left this cafe.
00:41:14.080 | And someone tried to take it and he jerked backwards
00:41:17.320 | instead of just going forward.
00:41:19.200 | So like we started tussling and then yeah,
00:41:21.960 | he had a small little knife.
00:41:23.880 | I thought it was just punching me.
00:41:25.200 | I mean, if he had like shown the knife,
00:41:26.600 | I would have been like, oh, take the phone.
00:41:28.680 | But afterwards I was like, oh, so sore.
00:41:32.680 | And I was just covered in blood.
00:41:34.280 | That's 'cause like he was stabbing me.
00:41:37.160 | Luckily it was a small box cutter.
00:41:38.600 | So it wasn't very big.
00:41:41.080 | I assume you went to the hospital and everything was fine.
00:41:43.520 | Yeah, the whole thing cost me like 50 bucks.
00:41:45.720 | The flight home was like a thousand bucks.
00:41:47.720 | And I asked for reimbursement for that.
00:41:49.440 | But the 50 bucks, I was like,
00:41:51.520 | that's not worth the paperwork.
00:41:53.040 | And they could have done it for 50 bucks,
00:41:55.160 | but I did it for the flight.
00:41:57.120 | Would you go back to Bogota after that?
00:41:59.680 | Oh yeah, 100%.
00:42:01.600 | I love Bogota.
00:42:02.920 | I was really sad to have to go home.
00:42:05.280 | I've also been to Bogota.
00:42:06.520 | It's just a great place.
00:42:07.440 | I love the country of Columbia.
00:42:09.040 | I've been there a few times.
00:42:10.200 | Bogota is close enough and time zone good enough
00:42:13.240 | that I think you could even do it in a long weekend
00:42:15.080 | and have a great trip.
00:42:16.000 | I don't wanna not do slow travel,
00:42:18.200 | but I think for those who don't have the time to do it,
00:42:20.720 | it's still a place that you can go
00:42:22.520 | in a short period of time because of the proximity.
00:42:25.120 | It's such a phenomenal place.
00:42:26.360 | I was there for six weeks
00:42:27.600 | and gonna stay in another six weeks.
00:42:29.920 | I wanna just get some quick thoughts on travel hacking.
00:42:32.840 | I've obviously covered this topic a ton.
00:42:34.920 | You've thought about it a lot.
00:42:36.640 | Are there perspectives you have on it
00:42:38.520 | that you think are maybe a little bit contrarian
00:42:40.960 | to the average person who plays the points and miles game
00:42:44.400 | that would be helpful to hear?
00:42:46.840 | I think that people get too caught up in point value.
00:42:49.400 | Just for most people, just get a card,
00:42:52.080 | book your flight, that works,
00:42:53.280 | and don't spend time doing it.
00:42:55.560 | People overcomplicate the simple.
00:42:58.080 | If you're a person who's going on one to two trips a year,
00:43:01.440 | one or two credit cards just to optimize spending bonuses,
00:43:05.520 | it's gonna be more than enough.
00:43:07.320 | What's your setup for travel hacking?
00:43:09.480 | Do you have a lot of cards, a couple cards?
00:43:11.160 | I mean, I have like 30 cards.
00:43:12.800 | Okay, okay, so. Crazy.
00:43:14.520 | But I also have this for work too,
00:43:16.200 | so it's like really different.
00:43:18.160 | And I travel like constantly.
00:43:20.520 | On my personal stuff, I use Built,
00:43:23.760 | which is a card that lets you get points
00:43:25.760 | on your rent for free.
00:43:26.920 | And they have some good category bonuses that I use.
00:43:30.240 | And then I use the Chase Sapphire.
00:43:31.960 | For work, I either use an Amex Gold or a Chase Ink.
00:43:36.760 | Any favorite tactics for redeeming?
00:43:39.200 | There's a great new website out called Point.me,
00:43:41.800 | and you can just connect all your stuff through an API
00:43:44.560 | and just search like where you wanna go,
00:43:46.760 | and it'll tell you where to transfer your points
00:43:49.360 | to get the most value.
00:43:50.760 | That's a really good news website.
00:43:52.360 | They're still working on some of the kinks.
00:43:53.640 | Like one of the things I don't like
00:43:55.320 | is you can't do a calendar view.
00:43:56.560 | You have to search day by day by day.
00:43:59.640 | Very frustrating.
00:44:01.000 | But it's a new program, so they'll fix it eventually.
00:44:05.280 | Yeah, when I talked to Tiffany, one of the founders,
00:44:08.680 | she basically said, "Don't expect that much.
00:44:12.080 | "There might be a premium tier that you pay more for
00:44:14.800 | "if you wanna search more dates."
00:44:16.280 | So it's not clear that the full calendar view is coming,
00:44:19.160 | but I do like Seatspy for that feature.
00:44:22.320 | They give you 365-day calendar view
00:44:25.000 | for a handful of airlines.
00:44:27.120 | So before we wrap, I wanna go down one path,
00:44:30.640 | which is just inspiring people
00:44:33.760 | with some of the kind of off-the-beaten-path places
00:44:36.240 | you've enjoyed that people might not be considering.
00:44:38.960 | I get lots of emails of people saying,
00:44:40.320 | "Oh, I have a trip coming up to Paris or London or Tokyo."
00:44:43.960 | But I think once you've kind of ticked off
00:44:47.080 | some of the most common places
00:44:48.400 | you're looking for inspiration,
00:44:49.760 | you've done more travel than probably anyone listening.
00:44:53.360 | What are some places you think
00:44:54.200 | people need to put on their list to explore?
00:44:56.600 | - Taiwan, Romania, Bulgaria, Mexico.
00:45:00.120 | I mean, like off-beat Mexico,
00:45:01.480 | like get out of like Tulum and Playa and all those places.
00:45:05.960 | - I've been to Taiwan and it was fantastic,
00:45:07.800 | but a few of the others I haven't.
00:45:09.160 | I'm dying to know what set them apart
00:45:11.160 | from the rest of the world.
00:45:13.440 | - Taiwan is just like very under-visited, great food.
00:45:18.360 | It's like clean China.
00:45:19.960 | South Korea, just great nightlife and food.
00:45:23.320 | Bulgaria and Romania, incredible history,
00:45:28.320 | ruins, small little medieval towns,
00:45:31.560 | like national parks and mountains.
00:45:34.120 | And you have the coast and it's just like phenomenal
00:45:36.640 | and cheap and not a lot of people go there.
00:45:40.080 | Mexico was amazing.
00:45:41.680 | Everyone's super nice.
00:45:42.720 | There's just a vibrancy to life there,
00:45:44.760 | plus the food, so you can see there's a trend.
00:45:47.680 | - Where in Mexico?
00:45:48.880 | I think Mexico might be really easy
00:45:50.920 | for a lot of people in the States
00:45:52.280 | to start exploring and flights can be pretty cheap.
00:45:56.200 | What are the places that you think?
00:45:57.600 | - San Miguel de Allende, Oaxaca, Chiapas,
00:46:01.520 | Yucatan State, not the peninsula, Merida, Monterey,
00:46:06.160 | just got places that come to mind.
00:46:07.720 | It's a huge country,
00:46:08.560 | but most travelers stick to a few places.
00:46:11.520 | I mean, I love Mexico City too,
00:46:12.840 | so I mean, you can't go wrong there.
00:46:15.240 | Other places that come to mind,
00:46:17.280 | Malaysia, I don't think gets enough attention.
00:46:20.360 | Sri Lanka, Nepal, just great places,
00:46:24.000 | but not a lot of tourists.
00:46:25.880 | Basically getting a really unfiltered view of places.
00:46:28.920 | - I think that's something I'm looking for now
00:46:30.760 | as we kind of evolve.
00:46:31.880 | But one thing that's changed for me,
00:46:33.280 | and I'd love your perspective.
00:46:35.000 | You know, we did a lot of travel solo,
00:46:37.280 | did a lot of travel with my wife,
00:46:38.760 | backpacking, and now we have kids
00:46:40.960 | for people who have a more demanding career,
00:46:43.680 | aren't able to work entirely on the road,
00:46:46.200 | have kids, have families.
00:46:47.880 | How do you think that affects the style of travel
00:46:51.280 | you've spent years writing about and living?
00:46:53.760 | What do you think that looks like
00:46:54.840 | for the years ahead for you?
00:46:56.080 | - Well, I think budget travel is a state of mind
00:47:00.360 | more than a style.
00:47:01.640 | Like, oh, we have to stay in hostels or whatever.
00:47:04.520 | So for me, as long as I'm still doing the local thing,
00:47:07.560 | to me that's just budget travel.
00:47:09.040 | I don't think I will change that.
00:47:11.840 | I already like cruises.
00:47:13.920 | And whenever I stay at resorts,
00:47:15.280 | I'm like, everything here is overpriced.
00:47:16.840 | I just wanna go eat like whatever the locals are eating.
00:47:20.240 | So I don't really see a lot of change happening in my life.
00:47:25.240 | I think even as a family, things change, of course,
00:47:30.000 | but as long as you're doing that local thing,
00:47:33.040 | it's really just more of a like your mindset
00:47:35.480 | than it is like, oh, anything else.
00:47:38.560 | - I think one thing that I'm gonna change,
00:47:40.120 | and you already highlighted this,
00:47:41.960 | but just having less things to do.
00:47:43.940 | It's easy to get three or four things done
00:47:45.520 | on your own in a day and still have lots of time
00:47:47.920 | for exploration.
00:47:49.480 | With a family, it just feels like one.
00:47:51.800 | The goal is one thing to accomplish today
00:47:54.120 | and let everything else come to chance.
00:47:55.880 | Or maybe let your kids drive.
00:47:57.000 | We just had a great conversation with Derek Sivers,
00:47:59.260 | who talked about how he traveled with his son.
00:48:01.440 | And it was just let him lead and explore through their eyes,
00:48:06.160 | which can be very different from exploring through your own.
00:48:09.020 | This is really reminiscent 'cause I did a eight month trip
00:48:12.320 | where it was just like this.
00:48:13.680 | And my wife and I did a lot of this before kids
00:48:15.760 | is just recognizing that a lot of what you're going
00:48:19.460 | to experience, like your example in Italy,
00:48:21.480 | is being in another place, understanding another culture,
00:48:25.120 | food, language, and that doesn't require
00:48:28.520 | seeing every museum in the town.
00:48:30.600 | It doesn't require ticking off every five-star restaurant.
00:48:34.040 | It can be a lot different,
00:48:35.360 | and it can be a lot more rewarding to do that.
00:48:37.680 | And even more so if you get outside of the cities.
00:48:40.000 | Sometimes just where you stay.
00:48:42.960 | Maybe don't stay in the most central part of town
00:48:46.540 | to force yourself to be around locals.
00:48:50.760 | Yeah, I agree.
00:48:52.800 | I think as you age and you slow down,
00:48:54.800 | especially if you have kids, you slow down.
00:48:56.520 | I don't have kids, but I've had a lot of other parents
00:49:01.520 | who travel with kids say the same thing.
00:49:03.320 | They let their kids just go,
00:49:04.480 | and their kids will just discover things,
00:49:06.840 | and they then discover things.
00:49:09.080 | One thing I'm gonna wrap with,
00:49:10.440 | is there a place in the world that if someone were going,
00:49:14.720 | you have a few recommendations?
00:49:16.520 | Maybe it's because you lived there for a while.
00:49:18.480 | Maybe it's 'cause it's home.
00:49:20.000 | If you go to Paris, go to Le Dix-Vins, Le Dix-Vins.
00:49:24.640 | That's a great restaurant.
00:49:25.720 | L-E-D-I-T-V-I-N.
00:49:29.200 | How would you spend a day in Paris if you only had one?
00:49:31.800 | Wander and wander, get some wine, sit on the sand,
00:49:35.360 | sit in a park, go to a cafe, and just eat.
00:49:38.720 | Paris is just great just to be there.
00:49:40.760 | - I don't disagree.
00:49:41.840 | If people wanna stay on top of everything you're writing,
00:49:44.440 | traveling, posting, where should they head?
00:49:46.520 | - You find me everywhere at nomadicrad.com
00:49:48.960 | and nomadicrad on social media.
00:49:50.800 | - Awesome, thanks for being here.
00:49:52.520 | - Thanks for having me.
00:49:53.680 | (upbeat music)
00:49:55.160 | - I really hope you enjoyed this episode.
00:49:56.960 | Thank you so much for listening.
00:49:58.720 | If you haven't already left a rating and a review
00:50:00.840 | for the show in Apple Podcasts or Spotify,
00:50:03.640 | I would really appreciate it.
00:50:05.360 | And if you have any feedback on the show,
00:50:06.800 | questions for me, or just wanna say hi,
00:50:09.160 | I'm chris@allthehacks.com or @hutchins on Twitter.
00:50:13.440 | That's it for this week, I'll see you next week.
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