ATHLLC3486322175
00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)
00:00:02.500 | - Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks,
00:00:05.680 | a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.
00:00:08.880 | I'm your host, Chris Hutchins,
00:00:10.300 | and each week I sit down with the world's best experts
00:00:12.940 | to learn the strategies, tactics, and frameworks
00:00:15.260 | that shape their success.
00:00:16.860 | A couple days ago,
00:00:17.700 | I had a fascinating conversation with Tad Fallows,
00:00:20.700 | and we talked about how high net worth investors
00:00:23.260 | manage and invest their money,
00:00:24.920 | including their asset allocation percentages,
00:00:27.420 | and a deep dive on alternative assets.
00:00:30.040 | So if you wanna check that out or get more context on Tad
00:00:32.780 | and the community of high net worth investors he runs,
00:00:35.260 | definitely listen to that episode.
00:00:37.180 | But today, I wanted to release a little bonus episode
00:00:39.800 | with the rest of that conversation,
00:00:41.600 | which is all about how he thinks about money and kids,
00:00:44.620 | things like allowance, college savings,
00:00:47.180 | sharing family finances,
00:00:49.020 | as well as a real estate tax hack and his recommendations
00:00:52.080 | if you're ever in his hometown, Dallas.
00:00:54.460 | So let's get started right after this.
00:00:57.680 | Science has shown that being charitable
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00:01:15.600 | Amy and I use Daffy for all of our giving
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00:01:55.140 | So head on over to allthehacks.com/daffy
00:01:58.640 | if you wanna start giving today,
00:02:00.620 | and for a limited time, if you visit that link,
00:02:03.260 | you can get a free $25 to give
00:02:05.780 | to the charity of your choice.
00:02:07.700 | Again, that's allthehacks.com/daffy.
00:02:12.700 | I wish I could say that I'm eating
00:02:16.380 | a fully balanced diet every day,
00:02:18.500 | but the reality is that I am definitely not.
00:02:21.120 | So I love having an easy way
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00:02:37.600 | Every morning, I mix it up with some cold water,
00:02:39.980 | add a few ice cubes, it tastes so good when it's cold,
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00:03:26.040 | I am curious about another type of financial education,
00:03:30.480 | which is how you're thinking about
00:03:32.920 | sharing all of this knowledge with your kids,
00:03:35.440 | because mine right now at two and five months,
00:03:38.580 | we're not really talking about it a lot.
00:03:40.640 | A guy I know, Rob Phelan,
00:03:41.720 | has this awesome book called "Emma's for Money"
00:03:43.600 | that we bought for my daughter.
00:03:44.700 | So it's like an alphabet book,
00:03:46.380 | except each page is talking about an aspect of money.
00:03:48.400 | And my daughter knows that the piggy bank has money
00:03:50.800 | and that the money buys things.
00:03:52.000 | And that's about as far as we've gotten.
00:03:53.680 | You're further on the journey.
00:03:55.320 | How have you thought about trying to make sure your kids
00:03:58.560 | both understand all of this
00:04:00.920 | and are equipped with the knowledge,
00:04:02.280 | but also, I went to a conference recently
00:04:04.560 | and there was a group of people that said,
00:04:05.720 | "How do we raise kids that aren't entitled?"
00:04:07.800 | Have you thought about that and what are you doing?
00:04:09.720 | Yeah, I love this question.
00:04:10.900 | Of course, I'll start with the comment
00:04:12.960 | that I don't have all the answers here,
00:04:14.360 | but if I look at myself
00:04:16.160 | and actually all the members of our community,
00:04:18.160 | I'd say, what is the number one problem
00:04:19.760 | that most of them are struggling with?
00:04:21.520 | It's this question of, as you're saying,
00:04:23.440 | what's the right way to raise kids in regard to money?
00:04:25.680 | And I might put that into two groups.
00:04:27.080 | One, you talked about how to make sure you're instilling
00:04:29.560 | them with the right values
00:04:30.920 | and not to take things for granted, not to be entitled.
00:04:33.600 | And then the other one is just practically
00:04:34.920 | how you get them sort of the information
00:04:36.800 | and knowledge about it.
00:04:38.600 | In the world of not being entitled,
00:04:40.040 | don't have a full answer there, but a few things.
00:04:41.940 | In general, I would say that communication
00:04:44.660 | and honesty and transparency,
00:04:46.260 | I think is the best way to go.
00:04:47.500 | So my kids are a little bit older, they're seven and 11,
00:04:49.780 | and we've been trying to do this throughout.
00:04:51.900 | So in terms of making sure that they value money,
00:04:53.740 | of course, they can see that we have a nice house.
00:04:55.460 | If we wanna go on vacation, we go on vacation.
00:04:57.860 | But my wife and I are transparent
00:04:59.140 | when we talk about decisions we're making.
00:05:00.700 | Like we bought a new car recently
00:05:02.740 | and my son was asking, "Well, why didn't we get a luxury car?
00:05:04.780 | "Why did we get a Hyundai?"
00:05:05.980 | And it was that we didn't have the money for it.
00:05:07.340 | I said, "We could if we wanted to buy a fancier car,
00:05:10.120 | "but that's just not important to us.
00:05:11.880 | "And other things that we spend our money on
00:05:13.840 | "are more valuable to us."
00:05:15.480 | I used actual numbers with him.
00:05:16.800 | Okay, here's how much a Mercedes would cost,
00:05:18.880 | here's how much the Hyundai costs.
00:05:20.400 | This one seems nice to me.
00:05:21.560 | They both get from A to B.
00:05:23.240 | So just this idea of communicating,
00:05:25.280 | no matter how much or little money you have,
00:05:27.360 | there are trade-offs.
00:05:28.520 | Whether it's whether to buy the coffee at Starbucks
00:05:31.280 | versus making it at home versus do you wanna fly private
00:05:34.360 | versus do you wanna fly commercial?
00:05:35.840 | I personally have not moved beyond the idea
00:05:37.620 | of flying economy.
00:05:38.460 | I can't get my head around flying first class.
00:05:40.460 | So the kids actually, it de-mysticizes it.
00:05:43.380 | They see this as something that mommy and daddy talk about
00:05:45.700 | and they think about these trade-offs
00:05:47.020 | and I think that kind of gives them exposure to it.
00:05:49.780 | In terms of how to sort of educate the kids
00:05:53.660 | on money and how it works,
00:05:55.420 | is something where I wouldn't say
00:05:57.060 | that we've done a lot of things right in parenting,
00:05:58.820 | but this is one where I feel like
00:05:59.900 | we have done a pretty good job of it.
00:06:02.000 | I think the fundamental thing is your kids are interested
00:06:04.380 | in everything that you're interested in
00:06:06.040 | and everything you do.
00:06:07.400 | So again, my wife and I just talk transparently
00:06:09.280 | about our jobs and when I'm looking at an investment here,
00:06:12.120 | I will put it in words that will make sense
00:06:13.760 | to a seven-year-old or make sense to an 11-year-old,
00:06:16.040 | but I'll tell them,
00:06:16.880 | "Hey, we're looking at this whiskey aging fund
00:06:19.040 | "and here's how it works.
00:06:19.880 | "You're buying stuff that this factory makes
00:06:21.640 | "and you're holding onto it
00:06:22.560 | "and you think you can sell it for more for later.
00:06:24.100 | "And does this seem like a good deal?"
00:06:25.480 | And asking them,
00:06:26.320 | "Hey, what would you be worried about on this deal?
00:06:27.960 | "How do you think it might not work out?
00:06:29.380 | "Why do you think it does make sense here?"
00:06:31.180 | Just that open talking about it
00:06:32.960 | of not having money be a taboo.
00:06:35.760 | Our son was asking about how we bought a house
00:06:37.960 | and how we decide which one to buy.
00:06:39.960 | And we didn't make up numbers saying,
00:06:41.280 | "Okay, let's pretend a house costs $100."
00:06:43.360 | We talked about the actual prices of that
00:06:45.000 | because they are sooner than we want or realize
00:06:48.220 | gonna get access to the actual numbers.
00:06:50.160 | So versing them those real numbers is super helpful.
00:06:53.160 | And then the other thing we've done
00:06:54.220 | is actually just tactically in the world of investing.
00:06:56.680 | Each kid, as soon as they were born,
00:06:58.080 | I opened a brokerage account for them.
00:06:59.800 | So this was separate from their 529 college savings,
00:07:02.040 | but just a brokerage account
00:07:03.000 | to buy individual shares of stock.
00:07:04.920 | And then for every birthday and Christmas and Hanukkah,
00:07:07.680 | they each get to pick out one stock
00:07:09.580 | that they're interested in.
00:07:10.480 | Starts when they're little kids, like,
00:07:11.680 | "Okay, how about Mattel?
00:07:12.680 | "Or how about Disney?"
00:07:13.560 | Or something like that.
00:07:14.440 | And I just print out a cute, goofy looking stock certificate
00:07:16.880 | and they think that's semi-cool.
00:07:18.720 | But then, especially my son, now he's 11, has gotten older.
00:07:21.520 | He's expressed interest in this.
00:07:22.880 | And so we will actually talk about particular companies
00:07:25.420 | and say, "Hey, your birthday is coming up.
00:07:26.780 | "What do you wanna look at?"
00:07:27.800 | And depends, sometimes he'll be,
00:07:29.180 | he wants a share of stock in the company
00:07:31.100 | where my wife works or something like that.
00:07:32.600 | And sometimes he'll say, "Well, which one's growing faster?"
00:07:34.560 | And start to do a junior version of analysis on them.
00:07:38.440 | And it's not like this is his passion.
00:07:39.920 | He may show no interest in it for two months,
00:07:42.160 | but then the brokerage statement will come,
00:07:43.540 | he'll look at it, he'll read it.
00:07:45.000 | And the cool thing about kids is
00:07:46.120 | if he's getting 75 cents in dividends from some companies,
00:07:48.840 | like, "Wow, I just got 75 cents I didn't work for."
00:07:51.280 | For a grownup, you might say,
00:07:52.120 | "Hey, who cares about the 75 cents?"
00:07:54.140 | But for a kid, actually those small numbers
00:07:55.860 | are an exciting amount of money.
00:07:57.440 | And it's a way to sort of start getting them
00:07:59.120 | that exposure there.
00:08:00.120 | And they can get those little wins.
00:08:02.000 | And they actually then see that continuity
00:08:03.640 | where a year from now, in two years, in five years,
00:08:06.520 | he's seen those same shares that he got
00:08:08.960 | for his third birthday.
00:08:09.960 | Now it is eighth birthday or his 13th birthday.
00:08:12.040 | He's seen those there.
00:08:13.180 | If he puts on dividend reinvestment,
00:08:14.760 | he's seen those numbers get bigger.
00:08:16.480 | And just sort of, at least for him,
00:08:17.840 | I saw this light bulb go out of these dividends.
00:08:19.800 | "Hey, I didn't do anything.
00:08:21.040 | And now I got this money here."
00:08:22.200 | I think he sort of gets the value.
00:08:23.640 | We also nudge them in that direction
00:08:25.280 | where they get an allowance.
00:08:26.520 | And we give them the option of,
00:08:27.360 | "Hey, you can spend it on whatever you want to.
00:08:29.560 | It's your money.
00:08:30.400 | It's your choice.
00:08:31.360 | But if you donate to charity,
00:08:33.240 | we're going to match that 100%.
00:08:35.320 | And if you invest it, we're going to match that 100%."
00:08:37.880 | And so the kids, they spend some on trash,
00:08:41.160 | but I would say most of it they choose to donate or invest.
00:08:43.680 | And they see the value of that 100% investment.
00:08:45.840 | And it gets it compounding pretty fast.
00:08:48.320 | I've also found, especially as they get older,
00:08:50.240 | it's been a nice discipline tool.
00:08:52.320 | Every parent, discipline is such a challenge.
00:08:54.640 | You don't want to yell at your kids.
00:08:55.960 | You lecture them, you give them consequences,
00:08:57.980 | timeouts, takes things away, et cetera.
00:09:00.080 | But for a certain class of misbehavior,
00:09:02.680 | this can actually be really effective.
00:09:04.040 | So my son and I were at Boy Scouts a couple of weeks ago.
00:09:07.360 | He was throwing around his Boy Scout book
00:09:09.080 | and he accidentally threw it up in the rafters
00:09:10.760 | and it got stuck there.
00:09:12.040 | And so I was being like so frustrated with him.
00:09:14.040 | Like, "Why'd you do that?
00:09:15.320 | It's going to cost $25 to buy a new Boy Scout book."
00:09:17.480 | And then I realized, "You know what, Jack?
00:09:19.280 | You got to spend the $25 to buy that Boy Scout book.
00:09:21.680 | I told you not to throw it around.
00:09:23.360 | You knew that was the wrong thing to do.
00:09:25.480 | It factually costs $25.
00:09:27.160 | We can look on Amazon here and saying getting a new book
00:09:29.600 | is costing $25.
00:09:30.820 | That's coming out of your account there."
00:09:32.760 | And so that was, I would say, a very fair consequence.
00:09:36.320 | It was just a natural consequence of what he did,
00:09:38.600 | but it really reinforced it.
00:09:39.720 | He has not done that same thing again when he realized,
00:09:41.980 | "Hey, I have to pay out of pocket for this."
00:09:44.560 | And of course, he destroys our sofa.
00:09:46.120 | We're not going to charge him thousands of dollars for that.
00:09:48.640 | But you get these sort of small classes of things
00:09:50.680 | where you can actually just make them more responsible,
00:09:53.620 | at least with material things,
00:09:55.160 | by making them live with the consequences when they act
00:09:57.240 | irresponsibly.
00:09:58.120 | - I like it.
00:09:58.960 | I feel like I got a lot of thinking to do
00:10:00.440 | before we get there.
00:10:01.480 | I will ask in case you've thought about it,
00:10:03.680 | have you thought much about college savings and 529s
00:10:07.600 | versus just keeping something in a little bit more liquid,
00:10:10.960 | less restrictive place?
00:10:12.840 | - Yeah, I looked at this a lot when they were born,
00:10:15.580 | and I've just started put on autopilot since then.
00:10:17.840 | The math I did when they were born was basically,
00:10:20.100 | if you put $1,000 a month from day one into a 529 plan,
00:10:25.660 | assuming some reasonable rate of return,
00:10:27.620 | that's going to more or less cover the cost of college
00:10:29.700 | when they get there.
00:10:30.540 | Since that was seven, 11 years ago,
00:10:32.460 | it's probably a higher number today.
00:10:33.740 | Maybe it's 1,200 bucks that you need
00:10:35.140 | to put a month into that.
00:10:36.540 | But I just started that from day one,
00:10:38.060 | and those accounts have been building up.
00:10:40.820 | The upside to 529s, they're great from a tax perspective.
00:10:43.460 | You put the money in untaxed at the beginning,
00:10:45.420 | but basically it grows untaxed.
00:10:47.740 | The dividends are untaxed, capital gains are untaxed.
00:10:50.100 | And when you take it out,
00:10:50.980 | as long as you're spending it on education,
00:10:52.860 | and there's a very broad set of things
00:10:54.500 | that count as education,
00:10:55.700 | there's no taxes ever when you're taking it out.
00:10:57.540 | So it's great there.
00:10:58.900 | The only quote risk is that you actually overfund it
00:11:01.380 | and maybe your kid doesn't go to college
00:11:02.920 | or they get a full scholarship
00:11:04.100 | or they go to an inexpensive in-state school
00:11:06.180 | and you've got too much money in there.
00:11:07.860 | I think it's a really pretty small problem.
00:11:09.760 | One reason is that you can take that money out
00:11:12.140 | and just pay a penalty,
00:11:13.060 | but if it's been compounding for 20 years,
00:11:14.700 | you've probably done better than the penalty anyway.
00:11:17.060 | Or if you're fortunate that you've got extra money
00:11:19.860 | and there's money left over in there,
00:11:21.300 | you can always just repurpose that to a new beneficiary.
00:11:23.880 | So in theory, you could make your grandkids
00:11:25.420 | the beneficiary of that.
00:11:26.380 | And then you've done your kid's college savings
00:11:28.060 | on their behalf for them.
00:11:29.300 | I have probably overfunded what we need to have in there,
00:11:32.500 | but just in the idea of that,
00:11:33.620 | the downside is pretty small
00:11:34.780 | and the upside of not having to worry about it
00:11:36.460 | is pretty significant.
00:11:37.740 | There's other things you can do in terms of also
00:11:39.780 | putting money in trust for your kids
00:11:41.460 | and UTMA accounts, et cetera.
00:11:43.540 | I wouldn't say I have the exact answer there,
00:11:45.520 | but for the 529s, I think just picking a number
00:11:47.900 | and consistently putting in every month
00:11:49.380 | is kind of a no-brainer if you can afford to do it.
00:11:51.860 | Someone sent me,
00:11:52.980 | I can't even remember the name of the website
00:11:54.540 | or I'd share it,
00:11:55.600 | but this guy who basically teaches a course
00:11:58.660 | or does consulting.
00:11:59.940 | I can't figure out how legitimate it is,
00:12:02.180 | but it's a bunch of hacks and a series of tactics
00:12:05.140 | to basically offset the cost of college.
00:12:08.200 | And it seemed like it was kind of asset location
00:12:12.140 | meets scholarship eligibility and financial aid
00:12:15.820 | and all that kind of stuff.
00:12:16.660 | I'm thinking of doing an episode on college savings
00:12:18.520 | in and of itself and I'm trying to do some research now.
00:12:21.020 | So stay tuned if I learned anything interesting.
00:12:22.980 | And if I don't, then that means there's not really
00:12:24.900 | any interesting tactics to learn from.
00:12:27.060 | - Yeah, and I will say if you send your kids
00:12:28.500 | to private elementary school,
00:12:30.240 | you will question why you're saving for college.
00:12:32.420 | It costs just as much to send them to a private elementary.
00:12:34.900 | Fortunately, our kids are going to a public school now,
00:12:37.260 | but when they were previously going to a private school,
00:12:40.380 | I really questioned why there was all this hoopla around it
00:12:42.960 | when it costs just as much before that.
00:12:44.960 | - That was kids.
00:12:45.800 | Are there any other areas of life,
00:12:47.180 | things you've picked up, tactics you want to share,
00:12:49.260 | tips, hacks, before we take off?
00:12:51.480 | - Sure, I think one that does not work for everybody,
00:12:54.260 | and I don't personally do this,
00:12:55.660 | but if you can make it work, there's a huge upside too,
00:12:58.280 | is having you or your spouse
00:12:59.960 | become a real estate professional.
00:13:01.420 | And what that means is whoever is a real estate professional
00:13:04.420 | needs to spend 750 hours or more,
00:13:07.540 | and at least half or more of their business hours
00:13:10.700 | doing real estate.
00:13:11.660 | It's pretty broad variety.
00:13:12.500 | It can be a contractor, a real estate agent,
00:13:14.460 | managing your properties, et cetera.
00:13:16.260 | But if you do that,
00:13:17.780 | then all of your paper losses on real estate
00:13:20.180 | are actually deductible against your ordinary income.
00:13:22.820 | So if you have one spouse,
00:13:24.200 | say your wife is a lawyer earning a lot of money
00:13:27.600 | or a doctor earning a lot of money,
00:13:29.000 | and you can qualify as a real estate professional,
00:13:31.240 | you can actually cancel out her income
00:13:33.540 | with your paper losses on real estate.
00:13:36.200 | I don't know that I think this is good public policy,
00:13:37.960 | but if it's something you can do,
00:13:38.880 | it's a real savings for your portfolio.
00:13:41.560 | - Awesome.
00:13:42.400 | Unfortunately, no real estate profession here,
00:13:44.260 | although maybe that definition gets wide enough one day,
00:13:46.780 | it'll qualify.
00:13:47.720 | I know you love all this stuff.
00:13:48.900 | This conversation has been great.
00:13:50.020 | We've had other ones before.
00:13:52.020 | Are there other places online that you consume content?
00:13:54.580 | You've got Long Angle, you've got this podcast, of course,
00:13:57.600 | but other resources, sites, blogs, people you follow
00:14:01.600 | to stay on top of all of this?
00:14:03.460 | - Yeah, for sure.
00:14:04.300 | There's a couple websites I like.
00:14:05.780 | Mr. Money Mustache, I'm sure you're familiar with,
00:14:08.420 | a lot of your listeners probably are.
00:14:10.060 | He was one of the ones that initially got me into this idea
00:14:13.020 | of a lot of the investing and I guess financial hacks.
00:14:16.260 | It's fairly different from some of the stuff I do,
00:14:18.180 | but I find him a very entertaining writer
00:14:19.980 | and a lot of interesting content there.
00:14:21.920 | There's also the Fat Fire Forum
00:14:23.900 | on which Mr. Money Mustache is all about extreme frugality.
00:14:27.400 | Fat Fire is more around financial independence,
00:14:30.180 | but spending a lot of money.
00:14:31.340 | So between those two, you kind of get a yin and yang of it.
00:14:33.980 | In terms of podcasts,
00:14:35.100 | there's probably three that I really like.
00:14:36.980 | One is the Odd Lots podcast
00:14:38.900 | by a couple of the Wall Street Journal reporters.
00:14:40.820 | It covers different economic topics
00:14:42.660 | in a really good degree of detail, sort of like yourself.
00:14:44.880 | There's one called Money for the Rest of Us
00:14:46.820 | that, again, he'll pick sort of one generally investing
00:14:50.820 | concept or asset class and really go deep on it
00:14:53.240 | for half an hour or so.
00:14:54.460 | And I've learned quite a bit from that one.
00:14:56.140 | And then there's one that won't appeal to all listeners,
00:14:58.580 | but it's called The Business of Family.
00:15:00.460 | And especially people who are in a demographic
00:15:02.540 | of having a family office or a family company
00:15:04.700 | and having quite a bit of assets
00:15:06.620 | in some company like that.
00:15:08.540 | Every episode, he interviews the sort of person
00:15:12.220 | leading one often multi-generational family company
00:15:15.180 | and talks about what they do to pass values and wealth
00:15:18.900 | and practices and other things across generations
00:15:21.340 | and how to run these family companies.
00:15:23.260 | I'm not personally in that situation,
00:15:24.540 | but I just find it fascinating to hear
00:15:26.740 | what some of these very successful families have done there.
00:15:28.760 | So those were three that I would point you to.
00:15:31.080 | - Great.
00:15:31.920 | We always end up asking you to pick a place
00:15:33.700 | that you're pretty familiar with
00:15:35.020 | and share a few recommendations,
00:15:36.860 | something to do, eat, drink.
00:15:38.780 | What's your spot?
00:15:39.620 | - So I live here in Dallas.
00:15:41.020 | I've lived here about seven years.
00:15:42.540 | Anybody who talks to me knows
00:15:43.920 | I'm basically the Dallas Chamber of Commerce.
00:15:45.500 | I love it here.
00:15:46.340 | So I'll talk about a couple of things with Dallas.
00:15:48.020 | You know, if I were looking at a really nice day in Dallas,
00:15:50.240 | I'd probably go for a walk down the Katy Trail,
00:15:52.820 | which is our rail trail here.
00:15:54.300 | There's a nice place called the Katy Trail Ice House.
00:15:56.620 | There's not great food there,
00:15:57.780 | but the atmosphere is awesome.
00:15:59.340 | And one of those places where you can get a margarita
00:16:01.020 | the size of your head.
00:16:01.860 | So that's a fun kind of people watching on the trail.
00:16:04.620 | And then where I'd probably go,
00:16:06.460 | what might surprise people about Dallas
00:16:08.560 | is the symphony here is actually phenomenal.
00:16:10.660 | I'm not a very cultured person
00:16:12.060 | and not historically into the arts,
00:16:13.700 | but we went one time to the symphony
00:16:15.540 | and I absolutely love it.
00:16:16.380 | We became season ticket subscribers
00:16:17.820 | after the concert hall was designed by I.M. Pei.
00:16:20.460 | And apparently it has top 10 acoustics
00:16:23.060 | in the world among symphony halls,
00:16:24.580 | given the way they designed it.
00:16:26.060 | I would definitely recommend anybody
00:16:27.380 | who has a free Thursday, Friday, Saturday night
00:16:29.340 | here in Dallas checks out the symphony.
00:16:31.000 | - This is awesome.
00:16:31.840 | I really appreciate you being here.
00:16:33.700 | (upbeat music)
00:16:34.780 | - All right, thank you for joining
00:16:36.140 | for this short bonus episode.
00:16:37.660 | If you have any thoughts, feedback,
00:16:39.340 | or questions for me about anything,
00:16:41.300 | especially because I'm prepping
00:16:42.540 | another listener question episode soon,
00:16:44.740 | shoot me a DM or email me chris@allthehacks.com.
00:16:48.580 | Okay, that's all for this week.
00:16:50.180 | See you next week.
00:16:51.140 | you
00:16:53.200 | [BLANK_AUDIO]