ATHLLC3400873766
00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)
00:00:02.560 | - Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks,
00:00:05.400 | a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.
00:00:08.160 | I'm Chris Hutchins,
00:00:09.000 | and I'm so excited to have you here today.
00:00:11.160 | Now, many of you might already know my guest today,
00:00:13.320 | Gary Vaynerchuk,
00:00:14.480 | but the conversation we have might surprise you.
00:00:17.420 | I've known Gary for over a decade,
00:00:19.220 | and he's probably best known for his hustle
00:00:21.280 | and savvy in entrepreneurship, branding, and social media.
00:00:24.760 | And while he's certainly had a ridiculous amount of success
00:00:27.640 | in those areas, building a vast empire
00:00:30.320 | that spans multiple industries,
00:00:32.140 | today, I wanna focus on a side of Gary
00:00:34.400 | that you might not have seen before,
00:00:36.140 | but having known him for so long,
00:00:37.920 | I think might actually be more a part of who he is
00:00:40.600 | than anything else.
00:00:41.920 | And that's a conversation about kindness,
00:00:44.120 | happiness, and self-awareness.
00:00:46.480 | We'll talk about ways to transform your life
00:00:48.520 | by digging deep into the importance of kindness
00:00:51.120 | and making amends with people,
00:00:52.720 | how you can use self-awareness as a superpower,
00:00:55.480 | some important life lessons to instill in your kids,
00:00:58.120 | and a lot more.
00:00:59.520 | I'm so excited for this conversation,
00:01:01.280 | especially because it's in-person
00:01:03.040 | at Gary's office in New York.
00:01:04.760 | So let's get into it right after this.
00:01:07.080 | (upbeat music)
00:01:08.680 | Gary, thanks for having me here.
00:01:10.440 | - Thanks for having me on your show, brother.
00:01:12.280 | - Yeah, yeah, it's good to be in this office.
00:01:14.060 | So many people that I told I was coming to chat with you
00:01:17.080 | associate you with hustle.
00:01:19.560 | What are they getting wrong when they make that assumption?
00:01:21.640 | - The nuances of it.
00:01:23.100 | Like, yes, I believe in work ethic.
00:01:25.880 | I think it's a variable.
00:01:27.440 | It kind of reminds me of what's just going on in the world.
00:01:29.760 | We're so into headline reading.
00:01:32.120 | I think there was a couple of viral posts
00:01:34.160 | on Medium written about me on hustle porn
00:01:36.600 | and that kind of like cemented point of view
00:01:39.040 | that even the writer of that article,
00:01:41.520 | three years later, DMed me to apologize
00:01:44.080 | because he spoke to the agenda he had at hand
00:01:47.160 | and realized he was making certain variables
00:01:49.920 | convenient to the story he was trying to tell.
00:01:51.920 | And I really appreciated that, by the way.
00:01:53.560 | I think that takes a lot of humility and courage.
00:01:55.880 | And honestly, I really do love the idea
00:01:59.360 | of understanding that work ethic is a variable,
00:02:02.120 | but there's so many other variables.
00:02:03.560 | Like, for example, from the first book I wrote, "Crush It,"
00:02:06.880 | when I wrote it in 2008 and came out in '09,
00:02:09.580 | in that exact book, there's like,
00:02:10.880 | hey, if you work nine to five
00:02:12.600 | and you make $48,000 a year,
00:02:14.160 | you've won if you're thrilled,
00:02:16.180 | if you live within your means and you're super happy.
00:02:18.840 | And so I think what people get wrong
00:02:20.640 | is I'm excited and I enjoy what I do
00:02:23.800 | and I put in hours towards it,
00:02:25.720 | but it doesn't define me.
00:02:28.120 | I'm completely, utterly detached
00:02:30.160 | from financial success, from notoriety.
00:02:34.240 | I just love my game.
00:02:35.760 | The people that know me best know
00:02:37.400 | the same vigor I talk about,
00:02:39.040 | like, hey, you can have a career that you love,
00:02:41.160 | I bring that same vigor to 6 a.m. on a Saturday
00:02:44.400 | to go garage sailing 'cause I love it,
00:02:46.160 | or competing in basketball or pickleball
00:02:48.920 | or watching a Jets game.
00:02:50.200 | What they get wrong is,
00:02:51.880 | unlike a lot of people who don't even use that word
00:02:54.320 | or even deploy that energy,
00:02:55.820 | I have tons of friends who are seemingly calm,
00:02:59.360 | speak all the right speak for acceptance,
00:03:03.280 | but are absolutely, incredibly overly driven
00:03:07.040 | by money, by fame, and are detached to that,
00:03:10.840 | and I think that's why there's a lot of anxiety
00:03:12.780 | in the world.
00:03:13.620 | And so I think the nuances of how I think about it,
00:03:15.700 | plus, I also spoke about that concept
00:03:19.320 | during an incredibly down market in the economy
00:03:22.720 | when the internet was hitting
00:03:23.880 | an incredible inflection point in 2008, '09, '10.
00:03:26.400 | When I used the word hustle in 2008, '09, '10,
00:03:30.200 | the intent is like, hey, there's opportunity
00:03:32.040 | and you can go get it.
00:03:33.480 | I'm thrilled to change that word to tenacity
00:03:37.160 | or grit or work ethic.
00:03:40.200 | So I think the semantics of it all.
00:03:42.060 | And I'm incredibly self-aware
00:03:44.480 | that the way I communicate with the excitement level,
00:03:47.280 | with the energy, with the Jersey chat of it,
00:03:50.760 | I'm very aware and genuinely compassionate
00:03:54.040 | and understanding to why people may take the extreme take.
00:03:58.480 | And I also don't have the audacity.
00:04:01.160 | I deploy enormous humility
00:04:02.520 | when I'm about to say what I'm saying.
00:04:04.280 | I would never expect someone to spend five hours
00:04:06.260 | to double click into it and actually understand
00:04:08.440 | what I'm about and what I'm saying.
00:04:10.640 | And so, I guess at the end of the day,
00:04:12.760 | what are they missing?
00:04:13.920 | They're not missing anything
00:04:15.240 | if they're just doing a drive-by and reading a headline.
00:04:18.560 | If they've spent two or three hours on me
00:04:21.060 | through content or interaction or people that really know me,
00:04:24.400 | I doubt they'd be missing anything
00:04:25.760 | 'cause I think they would contextualize it.
00:04:27.480 | - Do you think that work ethic you have,
00:04:29.200 | that grit, that tenacity
00:04:30.980 | is something that can be taught or learned
00:04:33.240 | or is it just something that's part of your DNA?
00:04:35.580 | - I think it's a combination of both.
00:04:36.880 | I think it's clearly in people's DNA.
00:04:38.960 | There's many people that are either born
00:04:41.360 | with too little or too much that deploy it immediately
00:04:44.520 | to quote-unquote prove something or see an opportunity,
00:04:47.120 | especially for immigrants.
00:04:48.280 | It's so easy for me to go at it.
00:04:51.360 | I was born in the Soviet Union.
00:04:52.880 | My parents lived their entire childhood
00:04:54.960 | into their early 20s there.
00:04:57.120 | So, I lived in a household that really understood,
00:04:59.760 | like, shit, man, America's pretty epic.
00:05:02.440 | This is pretty cool.
00:05:04.280 | You don't go to jail for trying to make a better life
00:05:07.720 | for yourself in entrepreneurship.
00:05:09.680 | So, it was very easy for me.
00:05:11.200 | On the flip side, I've seen a lot of people
00:05:13.320 | be affected by the osmosis of work ethic.
00:05:16.780 | It's kind of like what's going on with me in the gym.
00:05:19.180 | It became so not natural.
00:05:21.240 | As natural as it comes to me to sell lemonade
00:05:23.560 | or sports cards or run businesses or be nice to people,
00:05:27.260 | it comes equally not natural to me to work in the gym.
00:05:30.280 | But we've known each other a long time.
00:05:31.760 | Somewhere around 38, I decided to put in the work
00:05:34.840 | 'cause I wanted to live longer
00:05:36.040 | and just thought it would be better.
00:05:37.720 | And through osmosis practice,
00:05:40.640 | like I'm now someone who goes to the gym,
00:05:43.160 | I still don't love it, which is why I really do talk about
00:05:46.200 | how important passion is to actually get to that state
00:05:49.480 | where it's so easy 'cause you love it so much.
00:05:52.240 | I really do wish for everyone that the job they had
00:05:55.680 | was similar to their favorite hobby.
00:05:57.720 | For everybody right now who's listening,
00:05:58.920 | they can take a step back and whether it's skiing
00:06:00.720 | or cooking or playing video games or sailing
00:06:03.800 | or garage sailing or watching movies or what have you,
00:06:08.040 | if they could do that 24/7 and sustain their life,
00:06:11.200 | a lot of people would be happier
00:06:13.120 | and would enjoy that.
00:06:14.200 | But on the flip side, for a lot of us,
00:06:15.920 | just like me for the gym,
00:06:17.560 | sometimes you have to put in that work
00:06:19.200 | if you want to accomplish something that you think is good.
00:06:22.360 | To me, I'm actually very focused on people
00:06:24.680 | living within their means versus creating frameworks
00:06:28.280 | that require them to work harder, to make more money,
00:06:31.960 | to live within the means that they think
00:06:34.200 | they need to live in.
00:06:35.320 | I don't think you need a BMW.
00:06:36.760 | I don't think you need a six-bedroom house.
00:06:39.320 | And I think that is where that conversation
00:06:41.560 | gets interesting, but at the end of the day,
00:06:44.560 | I think it is something that can be taught,
00:06:46.260 | but I don't think it's something that can be taught
00:06:49.000 | in this scenario.
00:06:50.200 | I've gotten better at basketball even in the last year.
00:06:52.760 | I've put in more work.
00:06:54.420 | I'm not an NBA player.
00:06:56.040 | So I think there is a level of DNA
00:06:57.920 | that caps out everyone in every genre,
00:07:01.260 | but I think the capacity to get better in everything
00:07:04.680 | is quite high.
00:07:06.240 | I can't sing for a lick.
00:07:08.080 | I have a feeling if I got a voice coach
00:07:09.840 | and really put in the work and worked on it for a decade,
00:07:13.280 | I think I would be better at karaoke than I am now.
00:07:16.040 | That's interesting to me, the things you can control
00:07:17.880 | versus the things that you can't.
00:07:19.520 | - I'm guessing you don't wanna sing,
00:07:20.480 | which is why you haven't done that,
00:07:21.440 | but you did wanna build--
00:07:23.200 | - So I have a new song out with Snoop.
00:07:24.840 | Everyone go check out, it's not a joke,
00:07:26.680 | go check out on Spotify.
00:07:28.040 | Please take a step back, Snoop Dogg and Gary Vee.
00:07:30.920 | 17-year-old me is still freaking the fuck out.
00:07:33.800 | - But you did wanna work out.
00:07:34.960 | - Yes. - You said you're 38.
00:07:35.800 | I'm 38.
00:07:36.640 | I don't have a great fitness regime.
00:07:38.160 | Was it just putting in the work
00:07:39.280 | or are there things you did that made it more possible?
00:07:41.800 | - I think I was also in a five-year window
00:07:44.480 | where I was really hitting it hard,
00:07:46.040 | traveling a lot, going hard.
00:07:47.520 | I was really enjoying it.
00:07:48.580 | I did recognize this is really not sustainable.
00:07:52.760 | I don't think I have good eating habits.
00:07:55.040 | I have great mental habits.
00:07:56.680 | I'm incredibly calm and happy.
00:07:58.580 | The hustle thing that always makes me laugh
00:07:59.920 | is I sleep six, seven, eight, nine hours a night,
00:08:03.800 | depending on the night.
00:08:05.040 | So I have good sleeping, I have good lack of anxiety
00:08:07.420 | because I am detached from the work stress,
00:08:11.240 | but I knew that my eating and muscles were nowhere
00:08:14.960 | and so my back had been hurt as a child
00:08:18.280 | working in my dad's liquor store.
00:08:19.640 | So that was something I wanted to fix
00:08:22.200 | 'cause it was really uncomfortable
00:08:23.760 | and back to kid's life,
00:08:24.840 | you start not wanting to carry your kid
00:08:27.080 | 'cause you're worried your back goes out.
00:08:28.320 | The little simple things like taking luggage
00:08:31.160 | off of the top of a plane
00:08:32.600 | and having to use your right side
00:08:34.400 | 'cause you're scared your left side will go out.
00:08:36.520 | There was these little nagging things.
00:08:37.840 | My neck would get stiff at times.
00:08:40.040 | I was like, well, I'm way too young for all this
00:08:41.900 | and I plan on really quote unquote going hard.
00:08:44.980 | I enjoy what I do.
00:08:45.820 | I'd like to be 65 and fly somewhere for a meeting
00:08:48.940 | and so for me, I just said I've got to do this.
00:08:52.860 | There's certain things that are just very clear.
00:08:54.700 | Back to how we started this.
00:08:56.420 | Work ethic is one of the variables
00:08:58.700 | that help somebody build something meaningful, right?
00:09:02.540 | Well, eating well and going to the gym
00:09:04.740 | genuinely gives you a higher propensity
00:09:06.840 | of having a longer life and a more enjoyable life
00:09:10.240 | in your 60s, 70s, and 80s
00:09:11.640 | so it was just a very logical conversation.
00:09:13.960 | I also got to the financial place
00:09:15.520 | where I was able to hire a babysitter
00:09:17.720 | and the big unlock for me was
00:09:19.320 | I'm not accountable to myself, I'm accountable to others.
00:09:22.520 | The reason I think I'm a very good boss,
00:09:24.340 | the reason I think I'm a good friend
00:09:25.480 | is I like being there for people.
00:09:27.520 | For my own self, I just kind of take it for granted.
00:09:29.760 | I don't want to beat my own record
00:09:31.940 | how fast I ran or how much iron I pumped
00:09:35.260 | so by hiring Mike Vacanti to be my full-time babysitter
00:09:40.260 | and the person I was accountable to,
00:09:42.480 | it really worked for me
00:09:44.220 | and it's what I'm still doing 10 years later.
00:09:45.940 | - It's funny, the sharp decline in my exercise
00:09:49.100 | happened when Kevin Rose stopped riding the Peloton
00:09:52.220 | because we had this fierce competition of like,
00:09:55.580 | I didn't care about beating my record,
00:09:56.760 | I cared about beating his record
00:09:57.940 | and he cared about beating my record
00:09:59.340 | and then he kind of gave it up
00:10:00.780 | and I lost a little bit of that edge.
00:10:02.100 | - I think that's a huge insight for you.
00:10:03.760 | I think you can replicate that.
00:10:05.600 | You've got other Kevin Roses in your life,
00:10:07.340 | you can find a Kevin Rose on Twitter right now
00:10:10.100 | and so I think that's epic
00:10:11.800 | and by the way, same with me,
00:10:13.020 | like who I am on a basketball court or a tennis court,
00:10:16.300 | the level of effort and work I put on in that environment
00:10:20.900 | versus what I do in the gym is like 10 to five.
00:10:23.900 | Like 10 on the court, five in the gym
00:10:26.540 | so I understand that
00:10:28.040 | and I think that's something you should try to figure out.
00:10:30.760 | - I got some ideas.
00:10:31.600 | - By the way, anybody who's listening to this podcast,
00:10:33.300 | just hit up Chris and be like, I'll be your Kevin Rose.
00:10:35.700 | - Yeah, just get on the leaderboard.
00:10:36.540 | - Yeah, that's it.
00:10:37.360 | - We would basically be like,
00:10:38.200 | let's push until we might throw up on this guy.
00:10:40.100 | - By the way though, building this podcast,
00:10:42.300 | which you have care for
00:10:43.940 | 'cause you put a lot of effort to making this date work
00:10:45.940 | and I appreciate your tenacity
00:10:47.180 | and I apologize that my schedule is the worst,
00:10:48.780 | I'm so pumped we're here
00:10:50.180 | and it's always great to see you.
00:10:51.460 | You're such a good dude.
00:10:52.760 | I think you should build the community of this podcast.
00:10:55.460 | I guarantee you 73 of your listeners right now
00:10:58.500 | are fired up right now
00:10:59.820 | and you can build a whole community on this.
00:11:01.500 | - It's funny, we haven't had the conversation about this
00:11:03.940 | but we launched a membership.
00:11:05.260 | There's like 150 people right now actively
00:11:08.260 | starting a book club.
00:11:09.300 | - Right, so in this membership, 39 of that 150
00:11:13.020 | or 150 others that haven't gotten into the membership yet
00:11:16.660 | are all about this Peloton challenge
00:11:19.080 | and something we're thinking about.
00:11:20.740 | - I like it.
00:11:21.740 | Okay, so first book, focus on Crush It.
00:11:24.260 | Most recent book, much more on the softer skills.
00:11:27.020 | - Yes.
00:11:27.860 | - My takeaway was that you'd rather be known for kindness
00:11:29.620 | than hustle in the longterm, that's a focus.
00:11:32.580 | Why is kindness so important to you?
00:11:35.100 | - Well, because at 47, it's clear to me
00:11:37.060 | that's an equal variable to work ethic
00:11:39.620 | that's brought me to the place that I'm at.
00:11:42.500 | And the thing that I watch and admire in others
00:11:45.700 | who are in similar places,
00:11:47.660 | I think there's an incredibly disgusting concept in society
00:11:52.100 | that says nice guys finish last.
00:11:53.860 | I think it's an awful thing.
00:11:56.620 | As a matter of fact, I really need to make a hoodie
00:11:58.900 | and start rocking it that says nice guys finish first
00:12:02.080 | 'cause I really believe that.
00:12:03.700 | Because I think it's what are you judging?
00:12:05.580 | Like cool, you made $83 million in the bank and you die
00:12:08.540 | and nine people show up to your funeral was like that good?
00:12:11.880 | I would argue it's not.
00:12:13.520 | And so when I wrote Crush It,
00:12:16.220 | what was obvious to me at that point
00:12:17.620 | was the internet had a huge opportunity,
00:12:19.940 | influencers were gonna be big,
00:12:22.380 | people laughed at that concept.
00:12:24.100 | That work ethic was a requirement.
00:12:26.300 | I was 34, all I knew was my dad and myself
00:12:29.340 | worked our faces off to build the American dream.
00:12:31.980 | And that finding something you liked
00:12:34.040 | would make it not feel like work
00:12:35.260 | which would eliminate the anxiety of the work.
00:12:38.060 | At 47, when I write 12 1/2,
00:12:41.420 | I've now built a 2,000 person global company.
00:12:44.580 | I know why it's working.
00:12:45.900 | I know why it's undisputably gonna disrupt
00:12:48.620 | the marketing industry.
00:12:49.800 | It's because people wanna be here forever.
00:12:52.200 | I looked back at Wine Library and be like wait a minute,
00:12:54.380 | that's the same thing that happened there actually.
00:12:56.780 | And then I just think about my life.
00:12:59.420 | And then also I think about the hundreds of companies
00:13:01.900 | I've invested in, the ones that have worked,
00:13:03.820 | the ones that haven't,
00:13:05.340 | the thousands of companies I've consultant,
00:13:07.860 | the ones that work, the ones that I don't.
00:13:09.660 | And I think again, back to the way this podcast started,
00:13:14.300 | if you started it with Gary, nice guys finish first,
00:13:17.740 | what are people missing?
00:13:18.580 | Or if you went the other way and said hey,
00:13:20.300 | Gary, you really hate the nice guys finish last,
00:13:22.820 | what are people missing?
00:13:23.980 | It's similar to the hustle conversation,
00:13:26.180 | the work ethic conversation.
00:13:27.780 | There's multiple, it's why the book
00:13:30.060 | is subtitled Ingredients.
00:13:31.440 | There are multiple ingredients that I think stand out
00:13:34.480 | as a consistent North Star blueprint
00:13:37.580 | that have sustainable, enjoyable success attached to them.
00:13:42.060 | And I think work ethic and I think kindness
00:13:44.340 | and I think curiosity and several others
00:13:46.860 | are pretty standard.
00:13:49.260 | Now some people are stronger than others
00:13:51.460 | and that's why there's so many variable differences
00:13:53.420 | of so many different things out there,
00:13:54.780 | but it works for me and I really enjoy being nice.
00:13:58.340 | You know this as well 'cause you've watched this journey
00:14:00.180 | from me being someone a couple people knew
00:14:02.500 | to a lot more people know.
00:14:04.580 | I've always enjoyed the fact that even today,
00:14:06.620 | the people that know me best
00:14:07.660 | have the best feelings towards me.
00:14:09.740 | That's a nice feeling,
00:14:10.940 | especially when you've become a public figure
00:14:13.300 | and a lot of people have a lot of different takes.
00:14:15.780 | As people get closer to me, they have a better taste of me.
00:14:19.020 | I'd be much happier with that than the reverse,
00:14:21.340 | which I think a lot of people in the world have,
00:14:23.380 | which is they may be liked optically on the outside,
00:14:25.620 | but as you get closer to their inner circle,
00:14:27.540 | it gets more rotten quickly.
00:14:29.020 | - I wish giving financial advice were easier
00:14:32.780 | because I get asked about it all the time.
00:14:35.580 | But the reality is that what's right for one person
00:14:38.300 | might not be right for someone else.
00:14:40.180 | However, there are a few universal truths I believe in
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00:17:19.140 | The interesting thing about kindness
00:17:20.340 | is it feels like the thing
00:17:21.940 | that most people probably think they have,
00:17:23.660 | and when you double-click,
00:17:24.820 | there's aspects of their personality.
00:17:26.820 | Is cutting all negativity, does that level it up,
00:17:29.380 | or how do you really own kindness?
00:17:30.740 | - I think it's understanding negativity
00:17:32.540 | versus cutting it out.
00:17:34.140 | We're all humans.
00:17:34.980 | I mean, I'm gonna go to the garden tonight,
00:17:37.740 | and the things I'm gonna say to Jimmy Butler
00:17:39.340 | are gonna be completely inappropriate,
00:17:41.120 | though I love Jimmy Butler.
00:17:42.660 | He represents so much of what I believe in.
00:17:44.480 | But for those three hours, I will not be kind.
00:17:46.860 | It's the context.
00:17:48.260 | Every human's gonna gossip a little bit
00:17:49.820 | or talk to their best friend in the office
00:17:51.540 | about somebody else in the office.
00:17:53.060 | I think the question becomes, why?
00:17:55.460 | I ask myself, why do I not spend a lot of time
00:17:59.140 | tearing down other people?
00:18:00.660 | It starts with because I'm not tearing down myself.
00:18:03.540 | I don't really have a whole lot of envy.
00:18:06.060 | I don't deploy a lot of jealousy.
00:18:08.300 | I don't hold resentment towards my parents
00:18:11.020 | or other important figures in my life
00:18:12.860 | for anything that I deem that they did
00:18:15.220 | that wasn't good, right?
00:18:18.380 | And I think that's a very common trait for the masses.
00:18:20.700 | I know people who just can't let go,
00:18:23.060 | just spend all their time on jealousy, envy, and resentment,
00:18:26.100 | and then it manifests.
00:18:27.220 | It's in their subconscious.
00:18:28.820 | And then like every day to day,
00:18:30.220 | if they see someone who's happy,
00:18:31.820 | they get triggered to kind of point out
00:18:33.780 | what they're not good at or what they're unhappy.
00:18:35.460 | So I think we're all human and everyone has it,
00:18:38.040 | but I think getting to a place
00:18:39.940 | where you figure out your relationship with yourself,
00:18:43.620 | I think can be quite powerful.
00:18:45.460 | And I think always has a direct indication
00:18:48.940 | of how people feel about others.
00:18:51.380 | I always believe that the bullies in the world,
00:18:54.660 | the nasties of the world,
00:18:56.220 | that not able to be civil with others of the world
00:18:59.780 | are always in a really tough spot with themselves.
00:19:03.540 | - So kindness, it's funny.
00:19:04.740 | We always think about kindness as like, I'm kind to people,
00:19:07.500 | but it sounds like the unlock is realizing
00:19:09.460 | you need to be kind to yourself
00:19:10.700 | and you need to understand yourself.
00:19:12.220 | You've said, I think self-awareness is like a superpower
00:19:15.160 | most people don't realize.
00:19:16.380 | - In a way that really matters, brother.
00:19:18.380 | Like, in a way that's like, man,
00:19:21.940 | if I could wish anything for people on earth
00:19:24.380 | besides good health,
00:19:25.580 | for everyone who's listening in this great community,
00:19:27.420 | 'cause I know the kind that you would cultivate,
00:19:29.300 | I just think to myself, like, who's a listener of this
00:19:32.220 | based on I know good amount about you.
00:19:34.900 | And like, I've been watching you for a long time.
00:19:36.380 | There's like a really high standard of human on here,
00:19:39.540 | but I think a lot of them are blind to certain aspects.
00:19:43.460 | And I think the biggest one is like,
00:19:45.820 | just be easier on yourself.
00:19:47.620 | Like the extreme level of judgment people put on themselves
00:19:51.220 | because they play the game of comparison.
00:19:53.740 | Like the enjoyment I get to see Kev or Tim Ferriss
00:19:57.900 | or anybody like Sarah Blakely.
00:20:00.580 | Like, I don't know, like you, like anybody.
00:20:03.100 | Like I get thrilled when I see people are winning.
00:20:06.420 | As if that's coming out of mine.
00:20:08.620 | I've always been baffled by people's inability
00:20:12.420 | to understand that the world is abundant
00:20:14.780 | and nobody is taking out of yours.
00:20:17.140 | If 50 people showed up tomorrow
00:20:18.820 | that are incredible public speakers,
00:20:20.620 | not a dollar is taken out of my pocket.
00:20:22.860 | There's plenty of speaking gigs I could do.
00:20:25.620 | I really wish people understood that.
00:20:27.220 | And I think understanding who you're trying to accomplish for
00:20:31.620 | is also very important.
00:20:32.940 | There's a lot of people listening here
00:20:33.940 | who are still trying to make their parents proud,
00:20:36.300 | even though their parents are not capable
00:20:38.140 | of ever giving that cosign to their child
00:20:40.980 | because they themselves never got it from their parents.
00:20:43.460 | So a lot of people blame their parents
00:20:45.620 | and haven't done the work of figuring out
00:20:47.740 | that they should actually be blaming their grandparents,
00:20:49.820 | which then leads them to actually realize
00:20:51.400 | they should be blaming their great-grandparents.
00:20:53.260 | And it becomes this game where you can give your parents
00:20:55.780 | a lot more leeway, which actually a lot of times
00:20:58.900 | for people is an unlock.
00:21:00.460 | And it's kind of like a, you know,
00:21:02.940 | you can get it off your chest
00:21:04.140 | and I'm very passionate about this subject matter.
00:21:06.740 | - Are there things people that are listening can do
00:21:08.580 | to start to build better self-awareness?
00:21:10.620 | Is there like a training regimen
00:21:12.000 | or some activity that you've seen be helpful?
00:21:14.880 | - I think one is to really start
00:21:16.820 | to make the people closer to them,
00:21:18.340 | feel comfortable with giving them truth and candor.
00:21:21.500 | So like finding that best friend where like,
00:21:24.160 | if you can go to that one place,
00:21:25.540 | whether it's your mom or dad or best friend or spouse,
00:21:28.500 | where you're like, hey, I'm actually starting a journey
00:21:30.620 | of self-awareness and I know that I've always been
00:21:32.900 | the kind of person that can get very defensive
00:21:34.620 | or it can lead to a fight or you just love me so much,
00:21:37.540 | you don't want to hurt my feelings, but no bullshit.
00:21:40.140 | Can you just like answer a couple of questions for me?
00:21:42.420 | You know how everybody says like, I have all this talent.
00:21:45.020 | Like, am I lazy?
00:21:46.500 | If you can get a person that loves you
00:21:48.040 | to a place where they'll tell you the truth,
00:21:50.320 | you can really start to unlock some conversations
00:21:52.880 | that can give you some affirmation
00:21:54.140 | on something you've been fighting off.
00:21:55.940 | - It's funny you say this.
00:21:56.960 | I remember, I hope he's okay with me talking about this.
00:21:59.640 | Kevin went through this process and actually hired someone
00:22:03.020 | to call a bunch of his friends
00:22:04.060 | and have that kind of like performance review conversation
00:22:06.620 | and be like, I'm going to keep this anonymous.
00:22:08.380 | I'm not going to sign it to you, but like,
00:22:10.100 | Kevin wants to know like, what can he improve in?
00:22:11.860 | Like, where is he letting his friends down?
00:22:14.180 | What would you tell him
00:22:15.020 | if you knew he wouldn't be able to know it was you?
00:22:17.340 | And it sounds like, you know,
00:22:18.460 | not everyone needs to hire someone to do that.
00:22:19.980 | You could, you know, it's hard.
00:22:21.200 | Sometimes your friends don't want to be honest.
00:22:22.700 | - I think what you just said is a viable
00:22:24.380 | and maybe even a cleaner data set than what I'm referring to.
00:22:27.700 | I'm just very aware that most people can't afford
00:22:29.540 | to hire someone to do that, right?
00:22:31.660 | Or even think of it, but like-
00:22:33.140 | - Even a friend, like ask a friend,
00:22:34.940 | can you just call these five people and ask?
00:22:36.460 | - I like it, I like it.
00:22:37.820 | To your point, in my version,
00:22:39.180 | I'm asking that most inner person to give it to you.
00:22:41.980 | To your point, maybe that inner person
00:22:43.620 | is the one that cultivates the data.
00:22:45.860 | I think it's fascinating.
00:22:46.940 | - Or an anonymous Google form.
00:22:48.940 | - I like that too.
00:22:50.380 | I think people have to be ready, right?
00:22:52.720 | I had to be ready.
00:22:53.560 | For eight years, I knew health and fitness
00:22:55.320 | was something I wanted to be,
00:22:56.460 | but it was finally on a flight from Houston to New York
00:22:59.320 | with my head against a window where I was like, it's time.
00:23:02.140 | You know, for a lot of people right now,
00:23:03.280 | they're hearing this and they're pushing against it,
00:23:05.660 | like, nah, because they're not ready.
00:23:08.060 | For another listener today, this was the moment.
00:23:11.300 | Like in the last week or two, they just got ready
00:23:13.300 | of like, you know what, I just want my life to be happier
00:23:15.700 | and this is part of the equation.
00:23:17.020 | Look, out of all the things, work ethic, passion, kindness,
00:23:22.540 | I will say that accountability, I would argue,
00:23:25.160 | is probably the quickest indicator to how happy you are.
00:23:29.200 | If you are truly interested in being accountable.
00:23:32.000 | - To yourself?
00:23:33.120 | - Yeah, to the whole thing, to yourself,
00:23:35.760 | to everyone around you, to every situation,
00:23:38.360 | to every relationship, to the truth.
00:23:40.800 | I'll give you a good example.
00:23:42.120 | In my 20s and 30s, I would struggle so much
00:23:46.000 | with firing people and giving them canterous feedback
00:23:49.200 | that almost every exit at Wine Library
00:23:51.360 | and early VaynerMedia was sloppy.
00:23:54.300 | They stayed a year longer 'cause I wrestled with it.
00:23:57.960 | And then when I would do it, it would just be a shit show.
00:24:01.140 | Like, it would be, I'd ask my cousin Bobby to do it,
00:24:06.140 | even though I was the one who interacted
00:24:07.560 | with the person every day, 500 days a year.
00:24:09.980 | I would flub it, I would go in quick and get out.
00:24:13.520 | I would over, I would talk for three minutes
00:24:16.220 | about how they're the greatest and be like,
00:24:17.700 | but that being said, we're gonna have to let you go
00:24:19.700 | and they'd be confused.
00:24:20.620 | And so there was two, 300 people over a 20-year period,
00:24:24.140 | back to what I said earlier, that were close to me
00:24:26.980 | and did actually know me,
00:24:27.900 | who did not have a good taste towards me.
00:24:30.100 | What did I do in my 20s and early 30s?
00:24:32.020 | I would blame them.
00:24:33.140 | I'd be like, how could that person be mad at me?
00:24:35.980 | They were the worst.
00:24:36.820 | They were so incapable at their job.
00:24:38.340 | I was such a good guy for letting them even be
00:24:41.060 | in the company for another year or two.
00:24:42.780 | Look what's happened.
00:24:43.620 | They've not been successful in their last two places.
00:24:46.140 | And it took me getting into my late 30s
00:24:48.360 | and really actually into my mid 40s.
00:24:50.500 | Fuck my late 30s, not my late 30s.
00:24:52.720 | It got into the last three or four or five years
00:24:55.360 | where I was like, you know what?
00:24:57.100 | My lack of candor is the kryptonite
00:25:00.340 | to the thing I said 15 minutes earlier,
00:25:01.940 | which is I love that people that know me like me a lot.
00:25:05.500 | Asterisk, people that have worked for me
00:25:08.580 | that were not good at their job in my subjective opinion
00:25:12.580 | that I let sit around 'cause I was too scared
00:25:15.740 | or was not interested in conflict.
00:25:18.020 | And I created so much resentment and passive aggressiveness
00:25:20.700 | that eventually it boiled over and then they were fired.
00:25:24.020 | That group of 100 to 200 people on earth
00:25:26.760 | don't have the same good taste towards me
00:25:28.940 | than the 10,000 that have been close to me in my life.
00:25:31.460 | That took me being accountable to like,
00:25:33.820 | that's on me 'cause I struggled with candor,
00:25:36.420 | which is why in the book,
00:25:37.880 | the last book that you're referencing,
00:25:39.460 | the reason I wrote "12 1/2" was strictly
00:25:41.500 | at the end of the day to talk about kind candor.
00:25:43.580 | This concept that I rebranded it to myself
00:25:45.980 | and now I'm better at candor,
00:25:47.140 | but it took a lot of professional and personal losing
00:25:50.380 | for me to get to that point where I could be accountable
00:25:53.820 | and be like, hey, okay, tough guy,
00:25:56.460 | like you're good at a lot of shit, that's nice,
00:25:58.380 | or a lot of people, this is something you stink at
00:26:01.060 | and will continue to be a problem in your life
00:26:03.340 | unless you're able to build.
00:26:05.260 | And I'm proud of where I'm at with candor now.
00:26:07.580 | I'm a five, I'm a 4.7, I'm a 5.2.
00:26:11.820 | It's a lot better than a one.
00:26:13.140 | And I gotta tell you, in the last two, three years
00:26:14.740 | at VaynerX, the holding company, VaynerMedia,
00:26:16.980 | the agency, the company's much stronger 'cause of it.
00:26:20.500 | My greatest pride as a leader was eliminating fear.
00:26:23.140 | I got this, I got this, I got this.
00:26:25.780 | I got you, we got this.
00:26:27.540 | And I delivered for years.
00:26:29.340 | But what really was rock bottom for me
00:26:31.740 | was when I realized, wait a minute,
00:26:33.700 | there's a lot of people walking around scared
00:26:35.540 | 'cause they don't know if out of nowhere
00:26:37.300 | they're just gonna get fired
00:26:38.500 | because I'm like, everything's great until it's not.
00:26:40.580 | And I have to start giving more candor along the way
00:26:43.080 | and my organization does it better because I do it better
00:26:46.300 | and it's been a big growth for me.
00:26:48.220 | - You mentioned earlier that you liked
00:26:49.460 | that that reporter reached out to you three years later.
00:26:51.700 | Have you reached out to those 100 to 200 people?
00:26:53.780 | - I've reached out to many people.
00:26:55.060 | I have, I like making amends.
00:26:57.060 | So the answer is several.
00:26:59.820 | Luckily for me, there was a lot of good
00:27:03.900 | in what happened until the end.
00:27:05.620 | And so for a lot of people, when they've gone on
00:27:07.780 | to have two or three other work experiences,
00:27:09.860 | they were able to contextualize what I was doing well.
00:27:12.780 | And so to the credit to a lot of those people,
00:27:15.300 | a lot of those 100 to 200 people,
00:27:17.060 | two, four, five years later, have reached out to me
00:27:20.140 | because I was still on my journey, I wasn't there yet.
00:27:22.300 | And then to me, when they did that,
00:27:23.660 | I would come so hard and say, hey, Jimmy, Sally, thank you,
00:27:28.660 | but hey, I need to own a piece of this as well.
00:27:31.800 | Over the last two, three, four years,
00:27:33.060 | I've been better at starting that conversation
00:27:35.020 | versus being the follow-up to that.
00:27:37.020 | - I appreciate you being vulnerable,
00:27:38.740 | saying I'm not good at this thing
00:27:39.980 | 'cause I think from the outside, everyone's like,
00:27:42.020 | Gary must be great at everything.
00:27:43.500 | - Yeah, and honestly, from the outside,
00:27:44.980 | I think a lot of people,
00:27:45.820 | back to the way we started this podcast,
00:27:47.260 | assume I'm not good at a lot of things.
00:27:49.500 | For example, people are blown away
00:27:51.900 | when they hear that I don't like conflict
00:27:53.780 | because on public stages and in podcasts,
00:27:57.340 | especially 'cause I always talk about innovation
00:27:59.200 | and breaking things, seemingly, I like it.
00:28:02.900 | So there's different versions.
00:28:04.640 | I think the other thing for everybody who's listening
00:28:06.580 | is like, look, a very important thing, back to judgment,
00:28:10.700 | is I don't make assumptions about anybody.
00:28:14.420 | Every person I know that I don't know,
00:28:16.740 | I make almost no assumptions.
00:28:19.020 | I'll give you an example of shit I think about
00:28:20.940 | when somebody's judging someone.
00:28:22.380 | Like, oh, someone famous like Ryan Reynolds
00:28:25.100 | has the best life ever.
00:28:27.140 | You don't know if the most important person
00:28:29.500 | in that person's life was his aunt who was a mother figure
00:28:33.300 | and she's been diagnosed with terminal cancer.
00:28:35.980 | How do you think that person's walking around right now?
00:28:38.500 | Or in your office, like that person got the promotion.
00:28:41.020 | They're so lucky.
00:28:41.900 | Are they?
00:28:42.740 | You don't know that their spouse might be dealing
00:28:45.140 | with alcoholism currently right now.
00:28:47.980 | I'm glad you brought that up.
00:28:49.220 | I think another thing that really works for my temperament,
00:28:52.100 | for my peace of mind, for my joy,
00:28:54.460 | is my lack of capacity to make assumptions
00:28:58.360 | about other people's lives.
00:28:59.840 | Like, there's nobody I think has it great.
00:29:03.060 | It's inconceivable.
00:29:03.900 | Everyone's a human.
00:29:05.200 | It's inevitable.
00:29:06.040 | And by the way, even when someone does have it great,
00:29:08.580 | and people have had, I've had 'em,
00:29:10.700 | people have had 'em eight-year, nine-year, six-year,
00:29:12.860 | 12-year, 20-year runs, life is too challenging.
00:29:16.740 | I know friends who I know intimately
00:29:19.380 | and know well enough to say the following.
00:29:21.700 | Great 10, seven, 12 years, and then boom, child sick.
00:29:25.940 | Great 10, 12 years, and boom,
00:29:27.660 | father was the rock of the family, gone, heart attack.
00:29:30.840 | So this concept that somebody's got a great life
00:29:34.340 | is just incredibly judgmental
00:29:37.240 | and lacks the nuances I think are required.
00:29:39.620 | And I think we are at a hyperbole
00:29:42.540 | of this judgment world now.
00:29:43.780 | We are full headline reading.
00:29:45.320 | We are full cancel culture.
00:29:46.920 | We are full assumptions.
00:29:48.540 | We are full envy.
00:29:49.980 | And I don't think this is a social media thing.
00:29:52.660 | This is what's always happened.
00:29:53.860 | We're just hearing us talk it out.
00:29:55.820 | People in well-to-do neighborhoods for years
00:29:58.940 | have envied the person that's the richest
00:30:01.340 | or the handsomest husband.
00:30:03.460 | People just really need to get back to being insular,
00:30:07.520 | loving themselves, just allowing them
00:30:09.300 | to start to love others.
00:30:10.700 | - When you said earlier, people would be happier
00:30:12.460 | if they weren't chasing money,
00:30:13.860 | they weren't chasing dreams, they weren't chasing status.
00:30:16.540 | - Dreams you should chase.
00:30:18.420 | - Okay, fair.
00:30:19.260 | - Like I wanna be the best surfer.
00:30:20.460 | That's fun, like dreams are fun
00:30:22.660 | when you don't beat yourself up on accomplishing it,
00:30:26.400 | when you champion yourself on trying to accomplish it,
00:30:31.180 | and then you being realistic about it.
00:30:33.420 | - Part of that was you said people were doing what they love
00:30:36.000 | and weren't as focused on money.
00:30:37.300 | They'd probably be a lot happier.
00:30:38.540 | - Yes.
00:30:39.380 | - I wanna spend a couple minutes on something
00:30:41.220 | that you've talked about before,
00:30:42.500 | but to someone listening who's like, okay, I want that,
00:30:45.020 | I can learn to detach from the need to be as good
00:30:48.260 | as I might perceive someone to be,
00:30:49.780 | which might actually, you might be completely wrong,
00:30:52.600 | on the figuring out what you should be doing front.
00:30:55.760 | Have you seen people make that discovery
00:30:58.220 | of like that's the thing that I should be doing?
00:31:00.220 | And are there things they did to get there?
00:31:02.140 | - Yes, I've seen it a lot because of what I talk about
00:31:04.540 | and how many DMs and emails I read for the last 15 years.
00:31:07.460 | So far, it all happens from extremes.
00:31:10.540 | Horrible divorce.
00:31:12.020 | Now, whomever the wife or the husband
00:31:14.100 | is in like a financially challenged situation,
00:31:16.820 | like life's different,
00:31:18.260 | and they're forced into doing something,
00:31:21.660 | and they just happen to be consuming mind
00:31:24.740 | and other positioning of like, if you're gonna do this,
00:31:26.780 | do something you like, and all of a sudden,
00:31:29.180 | they have a business making kites, this is a real one,
00:31:32.260 | and it was just really therapy
00:31:35.020 | 'cause there was so much pain, and kites,
00:31:37.500 | I mean, I remember this email vividly,
00:31:39.120 | kites were a big part of their childhood and they enjoyed,
00:31:41.540 | and it was very challenging.
00:31:43.140 | The father that flew kites with this person passed,
00:31:46.340 | and then six months later, divorce,
00:31:47.780 | and then like really in a challenging spot,
00:31:50.140 | and this person decided to follow the passion route
00:31:53.100 | versus getting a job like everyone told him,
00:31:55.220 | and she sold kites on Etsy,
00:31:57.900 | and like four years later,
00:31:59.940 | was selling like $400,000 a year in kites,
00:32:03.820 | and so like that or the complete other side,
00:32:06.880 | someone just hearing the message in the right way
00:32:09.220 | and realizing in their early 20s,
00:32:11.180 | you have nothing but capacity for risk,
00:32:13.900 | and decided to like run into it,
00:32:16.100 | and I've seen a lot of versions,
00:32:17.600 | just being very humble and aware
00:32:19.380 | that they are in a financial family
00:32:20.900 | that allows them to go full risk for passion,
00:32:23.580 | just having a parachute and a landing route,
00:32:25.500 | the reverse, so pissed at their often Asian,
00:32:29.340 | or immigrant, or Indian parents,
00:32:31.100 | of like I'm not gonna be a doctor or engineer,
00:32:32.900 | you fucking assholes, like I'm going for it,
00:32:35.060 | so like in extremes, I've seen in extremes,
00:32:38.460 | I'm hoping to get those edges into the middle a little more.
00:32:41.500 | I'm hoping someone right now who's just like,
00:32:43.460 | to me the dream state is the person who's listening now
00:32:45.560 | that's making 210 and living a 250 lifestyle,
00:32:49.200 | they make $210,000 a year,
00:32:51.000 | they live a $250,000 lifestyle,
00:32:53.260 | and they realize that if they lived a $100,000 lifestyle,
00:32:56.300 | it would take the golden handcuffs off of them
00:32:58.700 | to maybe take the leap and go for it.
00:33:00.880 | They're obsessed with cooking,
00:33:02.580 | and they want their own little like bakery,
00:33:05.820 | but they don't have any savings,
00:33:07.420 | 'cause again, their apartment's too expensive,
00:33:09.520 | their car's too expensive,
00:33:10.640 | their vacations are too expensive,
00:33:11.980 | their nights out are too expensive,
00:33:13.860 | they order bagels on Seamless and Postmates,
00:33:17.740 | like do you know how many people buy $30 bagels?
00:33:20.060 | Currently, Chris, like lots, lots.
00:33:22.260 | I want to not know.
00:33:23.380 | - Well, but we know this,
00:33:24.740 | and this is more like the Uber thing
00:33:26.080 | that we learned years ago,
00:33:27.480 | people will pay for convenience at scale.
00:33:29.900 | There are people right now who are buying $30 bagels
00:33:32.900 | and don't even realize it, right?
00:33:33.940 | They're buying an $8 bagel on Postmates or Seamless
00:33:36.580 | or Uber Eats, but then there's the surcharge,
00:33:38.660 | the charge, the delivery fee,
00:33:40.340 | they kind of are blindly on the tip
00:33:41.740 | 'cause they wanna be a good person.
00:33:43.180 | You kind of wake up and it's a $28 bagel,
00:33:45.940 | and that same person is buying a $28 bagel
00:33:47.900 | 'cause they make $210,000 a year,
00:33:49.900 | but deep down, they're like,
00:33:51.260 | they hate being in this law firm more than life,
00:33:53.780 | like literally can't wait to five or six o'clock every day,
00:33:56.580 | truly can't, yet want to own a bakery,
00:34:00.060 | yet wanna start a podcast on Star Trek,
00:34:03.500 | and I believe they can,
00:34:05.500 | but do they have the humility to move back in
00:34:07.180 | with their 50 or 60 or 70 or 80-year-old parents?
00:34:10.340 | Probably not.
00:34:11.340 | Do they have the humility to get a roommate?
00:34:14.300 | Probably not.
00:34:15.140 | Do they have the awareness to say,
00:34:17.740 | I should move out of New York
00:34:18.900 | and maybe move to a suburb of Wisconsin
00:34:22.500 | because I actually like the outdoors
00:34:24.260 | and my lifestyle there can afford it?
00:34:26.700 | Especially right now, I got one,
00:34:28.380 | I haven't thought about this until this exact microsecond.
00:34:30.700 | We are living right now in a world
00:34:32.660 | where a lot of companies will let you work remote.
00:34:34.900 | I've been talking about this whole quit your job,
00:34:36.940 | start your life by going humble.
00:34:39.340 | How about don't quit your job, ask for a move,
00:34:42.860 | and so you literally go from New York, LA,
00:34:45.060 | San Francisco, Dallas,
00:34:46.460 | to literally lower cost deep suburbs of those places.
00:34:50.500 | My parents live an hour and a half from this office.
00:34:52.980 | Living in Hunterdon County, New Jersey,
00:34:54.340 | you can live for a lot less than living in Manhattan.
00:34:56.860 | Could you do that?
00:34:58.540 | And could you take those savings,
00:35:00.860 | could you cut out the $30 bagel?
00:35:02.820 | Can you take one less vacation?
00:35:04.300 | Could you trade in the car you have now for a downgrade?
00:35:07.140 | And can you take all those savings on that 210,
00:35:09.700 | now you're living a 130 lifestyle, right?
00:35:12.060 | And can you stack 30,000 savings three years in a row
00:35:14.680 | to give you that $100,000 nest egg
00:35:16.180 | to go, that's a level of practicality around passion
00:35:19.660 | that I hope becomes a bigger norm.
00:35:21.740 | - Totally agree.
00:35:22.580 | I actually have been thinking about this
00:35:24.060 | as you're talking that my new hypothesis is that
00:35:27.460 | once you start doing the thing that you really like,
00:35:29.860 | you actually probably will care less
00:35:32.020 | about all these other things going on, right?
00:35:33.740 | If you hate your job, like of course you're like,
00:35:36.420 | oh, I need these other things to make me happy,
00:35:38.300 | my friends have these things.
00:35:39.940 | - It's all in, all out.
00:35:41.700 | - Yeah.
00:35:42.540 | - Like when I work out, I eat better.
00:35:44.780 | If I don't work out in the morning, I eat worse.
00:35:47.280 | So it's an all in or all out.
00:35:48.980 | When you like what you do, the majority of your life,
00:35:51.980 | aka your job, well then all of a sudden,
00:35:54.980 | you aren't spending $50 on cocktails after work
00:35:58.780 | to deal with what's going on.
00:36:00.560 | You don't have seven streaming services
00:36:03.000 | to escape what's going on.
00:36:04.580 | You don't find band-aids for the issue.
00:36:06.900 | And the issue is your relationship and your job.
00:36:10.300 | And figuring that out is massive.
00:36:14.200 | - We're driving up to our vacation home tomorrow morning
00:36:16.620 | and I am so excited to spend a week relaxing in Napa,
00:36:19.780 | which honestly isn't something I thought I'd ever be saying,
00:36:23.020 | but then we discovered Fractional Vacation Home Ownership
00:36:25.660 | with Picasso and actually bought one.
00:36:28.180 | And I am excited to partner with them for this episode.
00:36:30.860 | So how does it work?
00:36:32.100 | Picasso buys amazing luxury homes
00:36:34.540 | in over 40 world-class destinations,
00:36:37.060 | creates an LLC for each home,
00:36:39.140 | and you can buy as little as 1/8 of the property
00:36:42.060 | at 1/8 of the price.
00:36:43.760 | But it doesn't stop there.
00:36:45.460 | Picasso professionally manages the home,
00:36:47.860 | handling design, cleaning, maintenance,
00:36:50.140 | bills, repairs, taxes, and more.
00:36:52.380 | And the scheduling system they built
00:36:54.060 | makes it fair and equitable for everyone to enjoy their home.
00:36:57.580 | When we first heard about Picasso,
00:36:59.420 | we felt like they made it just for people like us.
00:37:02.340 | That same week, we found the perfect place,
00:37:04.540 | toured it, and the next week we were closing.
00:37:07.020 | Since then, it's truly become our second home
00:37:09.540 | and it's been so amazing.
00:37:11.140 | And it's true real estate ownership.
00:37:13.320 | Owners can sell at any time, set their own price,
00:37:16.500 | and tap into Picasso's active marketplace of buyers.
00:37:19.740 | In fact, on average, Picasso listings resell in 12 days
00:37:23.880 | with a 12% annualized gain.
00:37:26.180 | So for a modern way to buy and own a second home,
00:37:29.360 | go to allthehacks.com/picasso,
00:37:32.700 | where listeners will get a free Picasso access account,
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00:37:37.460 | before they go on the website
00:37:39.000 | and lock in up to $10,000 in credit towards closing costs.
00:37:43.880 | Again, that's allthehacks.com/picasso,
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00:39:05.540 | (air whooshing)
00:39:06.380 | I just wanna thank you quick for listening to
00:39:08.460 | and supporting the show.
00:39:09.940 | Your support is what keeps this show going.
00:39:12.780 | To get all of the URLs, codes, deals,
00:39:15.460 | and discounts from our partners,
00:39:17.240 | you can go to allthehacks.com/deals.
00:39:20.780 | So please consider supporting those who support us.
00:39:24.260 | I got two final things.
00:39:25.340 | One, let's say you're all in on something,
00:39:26.960 | which I kind of am on this podcast.
00:39:28.620 | Like I found the thing that's me, it's my calling.
00:39:30.560 | Once you love it so much, I know you have kids.
00:39:33.520 | How do you find this balance?
00:39:34.620 | I love what I'm doing.
00:39:36.460 | A part of me is like,
00:39:37.300 | I could spend every waking hour thinking about it,
00:39:39.380 | but I also love this other thing.
00:39:40.620 | I have these two big ambitions.
00:39:41.860 | - You wanna mitigate regret.
00:39:43.980 | And like anybody who has kids realizes like,
00:39:46.140 | you don't wanna wake up when they're 20
00:39:47.940 | and realize your relationship isn't strong
00:39:49.820 | and they don't wanna see you anymore.
00:39:51.100 | And like, they were accustomed to living
00:39:53.200 | without you being in their lives.
00:39:54.540 | And like, it's devastating.
00:39:55.820 | And so I just think you're thoughtful.
00:39:57.620 | Look, there's no such thing as balance.
00:39:59.700 | There's your subjective opinion of balance.
00:40:03.120 | I love when people like judge
00:40:04.940 | other people's work-life balance.
00:40:06.420 | You don't know their family.
00:40:07.300 | This goes back to a lot of things we talked about.
00:40:09.040 | So I think for every person here, be willing to adapt.
00:40:12.220 | I've changed and ebbed and flow multiple times
00:40:14.920 | over the last 15 years on it.
00:40:16.520 | All here, this, more there, less, weekend.
00:40:19.260 | I think everyone's got their own thing.
00:40:20.820 | I work very hard Monday through Friday,
00:40:22.460 | but I'm pretty checked out on weekends and holidays.
00:40:25.980 | And when I say pretty checked out, I'm checked out.
00:40:28.060 | Unless there's a super fire.
00:40:29.860 | Other people may work nine to six
00:40:32.940 | or nine to five during the week,
00:40:34.140 | but they're also working on the weekend
00:40:36.020 | on their phone the whole time.
00:40:37.180 | Everyone plays it different.
00:40:38.420 | And by the way, you may go all in
00:40:40.180 | for three years on this podcast
00:40:41.660 | 'cause there's a moment right now.
00:40:43.380 | But then in three years, you may be like,
00:40:44.980 | wait a minute, I've done that.
00:40:46.660 | But like, look over here,
00:40:47.860 | these little ones are getting big.
00:40:49.060 | And like, wait a minute, I'm worried.
00:40:50.460 | And so you can go all in there.
00:40:51.540 | Like, people can find balance in extremes.
00:40:55.020 | You can't judge yourself on a day-to-day basis
00:40:57.860 | on these big issues.
00:40:58.980 | It's a bigger thing than that.
00:41:00.340 | Look at all the people that reconcile
00:41:01.740 | with their relationships years later
00:41:04.260 | and have great, I mean, I have a friend
00:41:06.180 | who didn't speak to their father for 40 years
00:41:08.900 | and now has had an incredible five years.
00:41:11.460 | And that's because they've leaned into forgiveness.
00:41:14.380 | I think it starts with forgiving yourself.
00:41:16.580 | You know, back to your question,
00:41:17.720 | like, there's a lot of parents right now
00:41:18.980 | who have 17-year-olds who are like, oh, too late.
00:41:21.220 | No, not too late.
00:41:23.660 | There's never a bad day to start doing the right thing.
00:41:28.100 | Like, if you're 62 and you've never been good
00:41:30.380 | at health and wellness, good news.
00:41:33.140 | Tomorrow is a good idea to do it.
00:41:36.660 | If you have 18-year-old twins
00:41:39.260 | and you've worked on just your career
00:41:40.860 | for the last 18 years,
00:41:42.340 | and you can sense they're about to go to college
00:41:44.040 | and they don't give a shit about you.
00:41:45.800 | They love you, but they're accustomed
00:41:48.100 | to not having you be a big part of their lives, good news.
00:41:51.540 | You could visit them every weekend at college.
00:41:53.420 | Probably a bad idea.
00:41:54.480 | They might not like that.
00:41:55.620 | But like, you could start today to put it in,
00:41:59.060 | if you are angry at your mother
00:42:01.200 | and you've got 20 years of resentment built up,
00:42:03.820 | like, good news.
00:42:04.980 | Today is the day you can start therapy.
00:42:07.660 | Today is the day you can go have a canterous conversation
00:42:10.720 | that is built on compassion for your mom
00:42:13.020 | that gets some of the poison out.
00:42:14.620 | There is never a bad day to start doing the right things
00:42:19.220 | that are most upsetting you.
00:42:20.580 | - I love it.
00:42:21.400 | The last thing, kids, everyone listening
00:42:24.660 | could share this with their parents.
00:42:25.720 | They could share it with their spouse.
00:42:26.860 | They could start to think about these lessons.
00:42:28.980 | I can't go share this with a one, a three-year-old,
00:42:31.020 | probably not a five, six, seven-year-old.
00:42:33.420 | Are there things you're doing to try to instill,
00:42:35.740 | let's take your kind of 12 and a half lessons.
00:42:37.820 | - Self-esteem.
00:42:38.740 | - That's the thing.
00:42:40.460 | - That's the thing, and not delusional self-esteem.
00:42:43.460 | - Okay.
00:42:44.360 | - If your seven-year-old loves Beyonce,
00:42:46.420 | but when she's running around the house singing,
00:42:48.760 | like, literally, you have to put earplugs in
00:42:51.220 | 'cause it's the worst sound you've ever heard,
00:42:53.700 | it's probably a bad idea to tell her
00:42:55.740 | she can be Beyonce one day, too.
00:42:58.300 | It's not a bad idea to say if she puts in a lot of work,
00:43:01.460 | she could be better at singing than she is today.
00:43:04.140 | So, to me, it's self-esteem.
00:43:06.060 | Also, what do you compliment your kids on?
00:43:08.240 | If you're complimenting your kids constantly
00:43:10.180 | on how attractive they are,
00:43:11.660 | you're so beautiful, you're so cute, you're so handsome,
00:43:14.520 | you're instilling affirmation on that,
00:43:16.620 | which is gonna affect them when they're in their 30s,
00:43:18.620 | 40s, 50s, and 60s 'cause that's gonna be their self-worth.
00:43:21.780 | If you're telling them that they're remarkable
00:43:23.820 | because they're getting A's in school,
00:43:25.820 | you're teaching them to conform to systems
00:43:27.820 | that aren't real once they become 22.
00:43:30.780 | Might not be the best idea.
00:43:32.340 | Eighth place trophies bother me,
00:43:34.160 | not because I'm so competitive,
00:43:35.740 | but because you're telling your kids that losing is bad.
00:43:39.020 | Like, kids are smart, kids are smart.
00:43:41.780 | So they realize the reason they're getting
00:43:43.020 | an eighth place trophy is like you, as the parent,
00:43:45.000 | don't want them to feel losing.
00:43:46.960 | Losing is bad.
00:43:48.420 | The problem is losing is such a fundamental part of life
00:43:52.500 | that you're teaching kids to be scared of it
00:43:54.960 | instead of leaning into it.
00:43:56.420 | So for me, it's practical self-esteem, truth.
00:44:00.860 | - What do you compliment your kids on?
00:44:02.820 | - Their humanity.
00:44:04.000 | Whenever I see them interact with humans
00:44:07.660 | and are kind, compassionate, empathetic,
00:44:11.180 | when my son will go over to somebody who gets hurt,
00:44:13.860 | I mean, he drilled a line drive
00:44:16.300 | when coaches were pitching two years ago when he was eight.
00:44:19.900 | He drilled, he was very good at baseball
00:44:22.340 | between like six and 10.
00:44:24.340 | Drilled a line drive that drilled the head coach.
00:44:28.020 | He ran, you know, he hit it,
00:44:29.260 | so he started running towards first base
00:44:30.540 | and he stopped in the middle of the base path
00:44:33.020 | and asked the head coach if he was okay.
00:44:35.480 | You know, after the game, the coach came up to him,
00:44:36.700 | he's like, look, I've been hit a lot of times
00:44:38.500 | in the history, he's been doing it for 30 years,
00:44:40.380 | he's like, I've never had a kid just stop and do that.
00:44:43.060 | And I bring that up to my son every day.
00:44:44.900 | Like, do you know how good of a person you are?
00:44:46.900 | Even though you're so competitive
00:44:47.980 | in baseball as your passion, like you did that.
00:44:49.820 | The humanity of it versus the thing.
00:44:53.220 | So I try to focus on those things.
00:44:55.580 | - I love it.
00:44:56.620 | I feel like this is not the conversation
00:44:58.040 | I think a lot of people thought we were gonna have
00:44:59.740 | and I like that.
00:45:00.860 | Any final words or where people should go to see more Gary?
00:45:04.600 | - You know, I think building off of what you just said,
00:45:06.460 | it was a theme of everything.
00:45:07.460 | Like, books by covers is a real issue
00:45:10.380 | in our society right now.
00:45:11.980 | For me, to your point,
00:45:14.060 | I think 90% of your audience will be like,
00:45:17.040 | oh, that was interesting, didn't see that going that way.
00:45:19.140 | I think for 10% of your audience,
00:45:20.700 | when you just said that, they're like,
00:45:21.700 | what are you talking about, Chris, that is Gary.
00:45:23.500 | Why, because they've allocated the time to go deeper.
00:45:26.700 | We are really in it in our society right now,
00:45:30.140 | politically, socially, nationalism, geopolitically.
00:45:35.060 | There's a lot going on.
00:45:36.380 | And we're also affected by the last 30 years of parenting
00:45:38.860 | where I do think we over swung too far in certain areas
00:45:42.340 | like eighth place trophies,
00:45:43.820 | which has made a lot of people anxious.
00:45:46.140 | So what I would say as a final thought is,
00:45:48.940 | if you find yourself thinking that in this interview
00:45:51.100 | or any other of Chris's interviews,
00:45:53.020 | it's definitely what made me think about the world.
00:45:56.220 | Like, when I started going through my 20s and 30s
00:45:58.660 | and meeting people that I had different thoughts of,
00:46:01.540 | and then when I got to double click in,
00:46:03.740 | either in person or through content consumption,
00:46:06.820 | I'm like, ah, right.
00:46:09.420 | You know, that will lead to a much happier life.
00:46:12.140 | But like the theme of this whole podcast,
00:46:13.900 | it starts with yourself.
00:46:15.980 | Finding how to not judge yourself for your shortcomings
00:46:18.780 | and accept yourself for your shortcomings
00:46:21.060 | and champion and be proud of your strengths
00:46:23.980 | is a really nice framework to be able to do it for others,
00:46:26.220 | especially your children, your spouse, your parents,
00:46:28.860 | and then going to your friends and acquaintances,
00:46:31.620 | and then just the world.
00:46:33.380 | I think this world desperately needs
00:46:35.060 | more civility and warmth.
00:46:37.260 | And I think people are looking for others to provide it.
00:46:39.500 | And I think back to accountability,
00:46:41.260 | it starts with yourself.
00:46:42.100 | And so I think you're capable of it.
00:46:43.300 | I really do, whether that's therapy
00:46:45.100 | or listening to different things
00:46:46.220 | or starting a regimen of health or wellness
00:46:49.860 | or mindset that gets you to that place.
00:46:51.900 | And I think you should do that
00:46:52.820 | 'cause it's a lot more fun to live life happy
00:46:55.980 | because final thought, you were dead for a long time,
00:46:59.660 | aka not born, and you will be dead forever.
00:47:02.780 | And so I think it's a good idea
00:47:04.340 | to maximize your hundred years, God willing.
00:47:06.460 | So consider that.
00:47:08.540 | - I love it.
00:47:09.380 | Reach out if this was helpful.
00:47:10.620 | I'm sure they can reach out to you online.
00:47:11.900 | - Of course, I'm easy.
00:47:12.740 | - Gary's easy to find on the internet.
00:47:13.980 | Thank you so much for being here.
00:47:15.380 | - Thank you.
00:47:16.220 | - I really hope you enjoyed this episode.
00:47:19.380 | Thank you so much for listening.
00:47:21.140 | If you haven't already left a rating
00:47:22.660 | and a review for the show in Apple Podcasts or Spotify,
00:47:26.060 | I would really appreciate it.
00:47:27.780 | And if you have any feedback on the show,
00:47:29.220 | questions for me, or just wanna say hi,
00:47:31.580 | I'm Chris@allthehacks.com or @hutchins on Twitter.
00:47:35.860 | That's it for this week.
00:47:36.940 | I'll see you next week.
00:47:38.140 | (upbeat music)
00:47:40.940 | (bubbles popping)
00:47:43.780 | (crickets chirping)
00:47:46.780 | (crickets chirping)
00:47:49.780 | [BLANK_AUDIO]