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00:01:34.640 | Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks, a show about upgrading

00:01:43.280 | your life, money, and travel all while spending less and saving more.

00:01:47.400 | I'm Chris Hutchins, and I am excited to have you here on my journey to find

00:01:51.880 | All The Hacks.

00:01:52.680 | Today's conversation is going to be really fantastic because I'm sitting down,

00:01:57.920 | virtually at least, with Brian Kelly.

00:01:59.680 | And if that name isn't familiar, it's probably because you know him better as

00:02:03.520 | The Points Guy, which is the name of the site he founded in 2010 during his time

00:02:08.520 | as a Wall Street road warrior, where he developed his unique ability to maximize

00:02:12.960 | his travel experiences while minimizing his spending.

00:02:15.760 | Since then, he's grown the company into a powerhouse travel and lifestyle media

00:02:20.400 | platform through a team of dozens of editors and freelancers that span the globe.

00:02:25.600 | I know I'm an avid reader of the TPG site and appreciate all the work his team

00:02:29.680 | puts in to create such great content.

00:02:31.520 | In our conversation, we'll talk about travel in this post-pandemic world, the

00:02:36.160 | current state of points and miles, and we'll get Brian's take on his favorite

00:02:40.280 | destinations, credit cards, travel hacks, and more.

00:02:43.480 | I know you'll enjoy this conversation with Brian Kelly, so let's jump in.

00:02:47.360 | Brian, thanks for being here.

00:02:50.320 | Thanks for having me.

00:02:51.680 | Yeah, I am excited.

00:02:53.120 | This has been a long time coming.

00:02:54.920 | You've been a top requested guest, people really passionate about points here.

00:02:58.120 | I know the last 18 months has been a pretty atypical month for, for travel

00:03:03.440 | and things are coming back, so I'll just kick it off.

00:03:05.680 | Have you had a chance to take some trips recently?

00:03:07.720 | Oh, Chris, I've had some of my best trips over the pandemic.

00:03:11.040 | You know, when it first hit in March, I took a hundred days off, which was, I

00:03:14.520 | think, the longest I'd ever not traveled since maybe I was in high school.

00:03:17.400 | And then I started small, like Palm Springs.

00:03:19.640 | Then I went to the Island of Antigua.

00:03:21.480 | When that first opened, that was kind of my first international trip.

00:03:24.640 | And from that point, I just started to go.

00:03:26.840 | I think one of my favorite trips of all time, I did French

00:03:29.600 | Polynesia, so Bora Bora.

00:03:31.320 | And I cannot recommend enough.

00:03:33.400 | Go in September, October.

00:03:34.960 | You can swim with the humpback whales off the Island of Moraya.

00:03:38.200 | Have you ever been to Moraya?

00:03:39.400 | We went to the Conrad in Bora Bora and you know, everyone says, "Oh, well,

00:03:44.320 | that doesn't face the caldera in the middle."

00:03:46.040 | And I was like, "Yeah, but it's a pretty nice hotel."

00:03:47.840 | Yeah, I stayed at the Conrad as well.

00:03:49.600 | I've stayed at the St.

00:03:50.280 | Regis and I loved the Conrad.

00:03:51.880 | It was kind of newer, fresher, in my opinion.

00:03:53.880 | Although if you're going to go all out, you can't go wrong with St.

00:03:56.360 | Regis, but Moraya is so cool.

00:03:59.080 | There's only a soft hotel and a Hilton, so it's not as high end, but you can

00:04:02.520 | kind of go all around the Island.

00:04:03.960 | And I did two days of private boat and snorkels.

00:04:08.240 | And I came face to face with a humpback and her little calf, 20 feet from my

00:04:14.440 | eyes, she was vertical looking at me.

00:04:16.120 | And it was one of those moments of, "Oh my God, like, is this real right now?"

00:04:20.480 | So, yeah, and then I did Kenya and trek with the gorillas in Rwanda, Dubai.

00:04:26.480 | Wow.

00:04:27.040 | And this summer I did a bunch of Europe trips and Europe was amazing this

00:04:30.120 | summer because there were no Americans.

00:04:31.680 | Amazing award availability at the lowest levels pretty much any day of the week.

00:04:35.760 | I took my family, seven of us, you know, Sabre level seats on Lufthansa.

00:04:40.320 | You know, so it was like, it's been an amazing time to use points.

00:04:43.480 | Certainly demand is coming back and it's getting harder and harder, but, you know,

00:04:47.440 | I still think for the next couple of years, there's going to be great

00:04:49.520 | opportunities to visit places that were over touristed, the Machu Picchus of the

00:04:54.080 | world, you know, Thailand, James Bond beach right now, my friend is there and

00:04:58.440 | it's completely empty for the first time in like history since the movie came out.

00:05:02.400 | So I think there's still a lot of opportunities for travelers.

00:05:05.040 | Yeah.

00:05:05.560 | Are there places that, you know, haven't opened up that

00:05:07.480 | you're most excited about?

00:05:08.560 | I mean, I'm craving Asia.

00:05:10.760 | Thailand just opened up, Singapore.

00:05:12.920 | I am hoping Japan, I've heard through the grapevine, maybe Jan one, but for, I

00:05:18.080 | think I'll be going for cherry blossoms if it's open, I just, you know, it's been a

00:05:22.040 | couple of years of, of no Asia travel.

00:05:24.360 | So yeah, I think that'll be, I'm hoping by, you know, mid 2022, the

00:05:29.280 | world is essentially reopened.

00:05:31.000 | I found in the couple of trips we've taken that it doesn't feel as

00:05:36.680 | unsafe as it might seem.

00:05:38.200 | I don't know if you found something similar.

00:05:39.800 | I feel 100% safer in any other country besides the United States for a host of

00:05:44.600 | reasons, but even just looking at, you know, and I'm vaccinated, I had an

00:05:48.040 | asymptomatic case of COVID.

00:05:49.520 | I, I got tested recently.

00:05:51.240 | My antibodies are through the roof.

00:05:52.560 | So I feel personally comfortable, even if I get a breakthrough

00:05:55.560 | infection or whatever, but you know, around the world, people take this very

00:05:59.040 | seriously, whereas I think 40% of the country doesn't at all in the U S so that

00:06:04.200 | makes, you know, no matter where you are, you know, very widely varying protocols,

00:06:09.640 | uncertainty, whereas when you go to most countries, you kind of understand what

00:06:13.160 | you're going to get and there are pretty strict protocols.

00:06:16.040 | So, so yeah, it was funny when people were like, travel's dangerous, stay

00:06:20.360 | home, stay in the U S I'm like, that was at a time when like my friend broke his

00:06:24.520 | leg and couldn't even get an ER room in Florida, in Miami beach, you know, on

00:06:29.000 | vacation, he didn't even have COVID.

00:06:30.360 | He couldn't even, you know, he was in a waiting room for 20 hours.

00:06:32.720 | So, you know, I think the U S has gotten much better, but you know, I, I don't, I

00:06:38.480 | hate when people just think, oh, traveling is dangerous abroad is where you get this

00:06:42.000 | scary virus when it's like literally the exact opposite when it's rampant in the

00:06:45.720 | U S yeah.

00:06:46.800 | Yeah.

00:06:47.240 | It's a, we had a chance to go to Greece.

00:06:48.880 | It felt great.

00:06:49.640 | It was just good to be out, good to be around other people from other

00:06:53.760 | countries and eat other food.

00:06:55.360 | And it was amazing.

00:06:56.480 | So I know the pandemic's changed the landscape of some of the rules and stuff.

00:07:00.480 | How have points and, and everything really evolved since you started

00:07:04.880 | and what are you doing differently?

00:07:06.080 | Yeah.

00:07:06.920 | So points, I think have gotten more valuable because while most airlines now,

00:07:11.160 | well, U S airlines will let you change a flight and get a voucher, a crappy

00:07:15.680 | voucher that you may not be able to use for the full amount that might expire.

00:07:18.760 | You probably can't use for someone else.

00:07:20.160 | It's a pretty restricted currency.

00:07:22.240 | I think they've marketed it as, oh, book and do whatever you want, but, oh,

00:07:26.800 | and by the way, not with basic economy or other tickets.

00:07:29.440 | So on the flip side with points, it's gotten much more flexible.

00:07:33.400 | You know, almost every loyalty program now will let you change, even if you're

00:07:36.560 | not an elite member change, cancel free of charge, get all your points back.

00:07:40.440 | So I think points have gotten more flexible.

00:07:42.840 | And if there's one thing travelers need these days, it's flexibility.

00:07:46.120 | Now it's interesting dynamics because airfares have come down as well.

00:07:50.960 | So the relative value of points, uh, you would think that, well, you're

00:07:56.000 | not getting as much bang for your buck because these flights are cheap.

00:07:58.520 | Let me just book them.

00:07:59.360 | So, you know, it just depends.

00:08:02.560 | I mean, it certainly depends on routes.

00:08:04.280 | I mean, I've flown Emirates first-class numerous times, tons of availability,

00:08:07.600 | like I've never seen before and, and not all flights are cheap these days, you

00:08:11.400 | know, especially since travels bounce back, you know, airfares in the U S are

00:08:15.080 | up 30% in 2021 and, you know, rising going to be above the 2019 level.

00:08:19.960 | So bottom line, I think points are valuable because they're

00:08:22.560 | more flexible than ever.

00:08:23.600 | Cause you can, it's basically like buying a refundable ticket and getting

00:08:26.280 | all of your, your currency back, you know, credit cards, there's still a war

00:08:31.040 | out there with huge signup bonuses.

00:08:33.440 | Across the board.

00:08:35.120 | So it's an amazing time for consumers to get cards.

00:08:38.200 | I even helped launch the built credit card, which is the first ever credit card.

00:08:42.000 | No annual fee.

00:08:42.880 | It's a master card and you earn points on rent with no fees to any

00:08:46.640 | landlord, which was huge.

00:08:48.200 | There's a wait list for it.

00:08:49.120 | It'll be fully launching to the public in early 2022.

00:08:52.520 | But now, I mean, when you look at your spend, whether it's groceries or

00:08:56.920 | online advertising, there's so many category bonuses on credit cards and new

00:09:01.960 | credit cards, and there's some new cards coming that I know about and can't give

00:09:05.560 | details on, but there's some exciting stuff in the pipeline.

00:09:08.000 | So for points, people, you know, some people are just naysayers and saying the

00:09:11.800 | points game's over.

00:09:12.680 | It's not what it used to be.

00:09:13.800 | It's just false.

00:09:15.600 | There's more opportunities than ever to earn.

00:09:17.480 | And yeah, on the burn side, you might be spending more miles than you did 10 years

00:09:21.320 | ago, but your earn rate should be three X what it was.

00:09:25.200 | So as long as you're earning a lot more than the rate at which you're burning, I

00:09:28.480 | think you're coming out pretty good.

00:09:29.560 | Yeah.

00:09:30.960 | So one of the, when it comes to earning a common thing I hear is people say, wow,

00:09:35.480 | you have to be rich and spend tons of money, or you have to have a job where you

00:09:39.560 | have all these expenses.

00:09:40.880 | And if I'm not one of those people, this game doesn't work for me.

00:09:44.360 | I'm curious what you would say to that person.

00:09:46.240 | Yeah.

00:09:46.880 | I mean, I would just firmly push back if you have a good credit score, if you're

00:09:50.280 | not going to be tempted to spend out of your means and mire yourself in debt, you

00:09:56.320 | can absolutely play this game and win.

00:09:57.920 | You know, there's probably 10 major banks that offer credit cards and there's

00:10:01.280 | probably five solid cards, which each of those banks, probably 50 decent cards out

00:10:06.960 | there that offer hundreds, if not thousands in values per signup.

00:10:10.120 | And, you know, I've got 26 credit cards right now.

00:10:12.880 | I've got an 800 FICO.

00:10:14.400 | And as long as you manage them, you can get new cards every year, new issuers.

00:10:19.280 | You know, even my Sapphire reserve, which I got in 2016, a hundred thousand points,

00:10:23.640 | you know, Sapphire preferred had a hundred thousand point offer as well this year.

00:10:28.000 | So I downgraded my Sapphire reserve to a freedom flex card.

00:10:32.160 | And then a couple of weeks later applied as a new member for Chase Sapphire

00:10:35.680 | preferred banking a hundred thousand points because you just can't have had a

00:10:39.840 | Sapphire bonus within the last four years.

00:10:42.040 | So I was over that.

00:10:43.160 | So there's ways to keep trading down, you know, advanced people in this game.

00:10:47.320 | No, the signup bonuses are huge.

00:10:49.840 | You maximize category bonuses.

00:10:51.640 | And even if you're an average person spending, you know, a couple thousand

00:10:54.920 | dollars a month, if you're maximizing, if you're getting your rent points, if

00:10:58.480 | you're making sure you use as little cash as possible shopping through shopping

00:11:02.400 | portals, there are many ways to travel and get free trips every year without

00:11:06.720 | being a road warrior or, you know, small business owner with millions in credit

00:11:11.160 | card spend.

00:11:11.600 | Yeah.

00:11:12.360 | I mean, obviously if you have those things, it's even better, but yeah, I'm

00:11:17.120 | curious.

00:11:17.480 | So you 26 cards, I play the same game and have a lot.

00:11:20.600 | How do you keep track of everything?

00:11:22.960 | And, and beyond just the cards, I imagine you have at least 20 different mileage

00:11:27.360 | accounts and you know, that's a lot.

00:11:30.360 | Well, you know, I had always used a word wallet, which had its limitations that

00:11:34.400 | not every program was tracked.

00:11:35.800 | One of my goals at the points guy was always creating an app that really

00:11:39.000 | attract all loyalty points.

00:11:40.440 | Every major airline hotel, which we just launched, uh, this September, uh, it's

00:11:45.800 | out in the Apple store, just search for the points guy.

00:11:48.840 | Andrew's coming shortly, but you basically, you get your net worth in

00:11:52.520 | points at our current TPG valuations.

00:11:55.040 | We also track your credit card spend.

00:11:57.040 | We'll tell you missed opportunities, you know, I'm the points guy, but I still

00:12:00.760 | will use the wrong card for certain purchases.

00:12:03.200 | You know, there's just so many, no one person can compute instantly all the

00:12:07.480 | different variables and opportunities.

00:12:09.400 | So that's why I wanted to create an app that.

00:12:11.200 | That tracked it all, but you know, I've got a similar to you.

00:12:14.160 | I've got a, uh, eight figure points balance because we run millions a month

00:12:18.400 | in online ads through my personal credit cards at the points guide.

00:12:22.000 | And then we use those points for our company travel.

00:12:24.080 | And, you know, we don't take freebies from airlines in general.

00:12:27.080 | We use points for everything.

00:12:28.440 | So I will say I have so many Amex and chase points that I have lately been

00:12:33.920 | going and using like capital one, which allows you to basically wipe off any

00:12:38.720 | sort of travel charge, including helicopters or Ubers, or even taxes on

00:12:44.760 | award tickets, because, you know, I think a lot of people have hoarded so many

00:12:49.840 | points, you can only use so many Amex points, right?

00:12:53.240 | Like there's only so much time in a year and.

00:12:55.720 | And travel you can do in first class to actually, you know, and I know this

00:13:00.520 | sounds like such a privileged thing to say, but it really is like, just like

00:13:05.000 | finance, like diversifying your points balances.

00:13:07.720 | So they don't just sit there and grow.

00:13:09.280 | Yeah.

00:13:09.560 | I think I'm guilty of sometimes hoarding points and, you know, I'm

00:13:13.160 | like, ah, I haven't used those points.

00:13:14.360 | And all of a sudden it's like, well, this, this airline's getting devalued

00:13:17.040 | and you're like, I should, I should be using these points, but yeah, it's a

00:13:20.560 | problem I think a lot of us face when you think about having points in lots of

00:13:24.000 | different places.

00:13:24.840 | I know that when you started the points guy, you started doing an award booking

00:13:29.120 | service for people, helping people book flights.

00:13:31.000 | Do you, do you book all of your award flights yourself now?

00:13:35.280 | Or how does that work?

00:13:36.240 | Yeah, I don't use a service.

00:13:37.760 | So yeah, the points guy before it was even a blog.

00:13:39.960 | So it was like April, 2010, I started it and it was just a form.

00:13:42.920 | And I wanted to create a business because I was working at Morgan Stanley.

00:13:46.040 | That was, I could make a couple extra a hundred bucks a week being in my

00:13:49.080 | twenties and broke as hell living in New York.

00:13:51.600 | Um, and I loved award booking cause it's like solving a puzzle.

00:13:55.760 | And it was like using the knowledge I had in my head, expert flyer.

00:13:58.720 | I could do for most people, like what they couldn't do themselves.

00:14:02.640 | You know, once we got in the credit card affiliate game, it just changed the

00:14:07.080 | entire dynamics.

00:14:08.120 | And I realized writing content to millions of people is much, much better

00:14:11.800 | than doing one-on-one consultations.

00:14:13.640 | You know, things would change.

00:14:15.600 | It was so time consuming.

00:14:16.760 | Um, There are good, you know, booking services out there.

00:14:21.280 | I know juicy miles points pros.

00:14:23.760 | I do recommend it.

00:14:24.760 | If you don't have the time to do it yourself.

00:14:26.480 | I also have a assistant who is a points wizard that I'm very fortunate.

00:14:32.000 | We'll, we'll do the things like, you know, call and change my, my

00:14:35.960 | travel changes by the minute.

00:14:37.560 | I mean, I'll change, you know, if I see what times of first class

00:14:41.040 | availability open up last minute, I'll switch to that.

00:14:43.720 | I almost always extend or come home early.

00:14:45.760 | So that's why I always book one way awards.

00:14:47.520 | And then I'm always just looking for what is the absolute most

00:14:50.080 | comfortable way I can fly.

00:14:51.440 | You know, elite status.

00:14:52.800 | I do have United one K, but in general, at least that is, you

00:14:56.200 | know, when you have so many points, I don't even bother with hoping for an

00:15:00.040 | upgrade because that to me is too stressful.

00:15:02.320 | So, so yeah, it's all about just like maximizing points, but I still do it myself.

00:15:05.880 | I love, you know, sitting down with a cup of coffee and looking at like, okay, I've

00:15:09.400 | got my friend's 50th birthday in Barcelona next month.

00:15:11.720 | What should I do?

00:15:13.120 | Should I stop and see friends in London on the way?

00:15:15.320 | Should I try the new JetBlue Mint?

00:15:17.200 | Is the studio open?

00:15:18.560 | You know, like it's still enjoyable for me to, to piece it all together.

00:15:22.800 | And do you have that all in your head?

00:15:24.880 | I know one time my process was okay.

00:15:27.200 | Well, I had a Google spreadsheet that had all the trans-Pacific flights, and then I

00:15:31.800 | would like group them by Alliance.

00:15:33.760 | And I would start, you know, searching, searching.

00:15:35.720 | I remember there was a time where I started using KBS tool.

00:15:38.840 | I don't know if you've ever had to use that.

00:15:41.160 | It's like the, it's like this Windows program.

00:15:43.280 | So I'd have to run Windows.

00:15:44.040 | Is that still around?

00:15:44.800 | It's still around.

00:15:46.040 | And if you have a Mac, you have to run Windows on your Mac.

00:15:48.800 | So you can use this tool.

00:15:49.560 | I remember that.

00:15:50.120 | You know, what do you, what do you, do you just know it all now at this point?

00:15:52.800 | Or how do you kind of keep track of everything?

00:15:54.680 | Yeah, I have a running list in my head.

00:15:56.680 | I, you know, I like to fly different carriers.

00:15:59.520 | I think it, you know, and I, I generally, a lot of time I'll read our

00:16:03.240 | points guy reviews of the airline.

00:16:05.240 | I think we've got most major ones carried, but especially now post

00:16:08.080 | pandemic, it's a whole new ballgame.

00:16:10.280 | So yeah.

00:16:11.840 | And a lot of times I'll just let the availability dictate, which, which, you

00:16:15.240 | know, if I want to fly ANA and JAL, but you know, JL has got the availability.

00:16:19.720 | That's the route I'll go.

00:16:20.840 | I generally avoid us carriers when flying internationally.

00:16:23.960 | I fly them enough domestically and the experience is essentially the same on,

00:16:28.240 | you know, so yeah, it's usually just in my head.

00:16:32.080 | Yeah.

00:16:32.840 | Yeah.

00:16:33.440 | But I, there, you have a bunch of great, if you, if anyone's listening to this

00:16:36.800 | and is thinking, gosh, how do I use my Amex points, I can tell you there's

00:16:39.880 | probably a dozen articles that'll, that'll walk you through the best

00:16:43.000 | redemptions on Amex, the best ways to transfer, you know, I think everyone

00:16:46.520 | listening here, hopefully already knows that transferring your points is, is going

00:16:50.440 | to be a much bigger win than the portal.

00:16:52.600 | Is there any time that you actually use your points in a portal or for

00:16:56.080 | anything other than transferring?

00:16:57.400 | Yeah, I gave up my apartment in New York during the pandemic and I would

00:17:01.200 | come in and stay at hotels and I have so many points and I don't want to stay in

00:17:05.960 | a booking a war, you know, normal room, you know, especially I have dogs.

00:17:10.160 | So for example, the only real hotel that you can take to rescues is Soho grand.

00:17:15.240 | They're so dog friendly, amazing.

00:17:17.960 | They're not a part of any points program.

00:17:19.520 | And you know, their penthouse is like a thousand bucks a night.

00:17:22.360 | So I was using 70,000 chase points a night to pay for the thousand bucks so

00:17:28.200 | I could stay for free in a penthouse, you know, so it's like, you do generally

00:17:31.640 | get value by transferring to United and flying Lufthansa first class for

00:17:35.040 | 110,000 points one way, but I didn't need to go Lufthansa first class anywhere.

00:17:39.760 | And I still have zillions of other points to do that, you know?

00:17:42.240 | So, um, yeah, I do like fancy non points hotels.

00:17:46.080 | So using cap one points to wipe off the state.

00:17:48.800 | So house, you can't even book that through most portals, but you can just

00:17:52.160 | wipe that charge off as a purchase eraser.

00:17:54.320 | And speaking of hotels, so I tend to think that if you want to use points for

00:17:58.600 | hotels, it's chase transfer to Hyatt, stay at high end Hyatt, 30,000 points a

00:18:03.960 | night, or even sometimes 25 things like we recently, fortunately, right before

00:18:08.560 | the pandemic, we went to Japan and we got to do the new park Hyatt, Kyoto.

00:18:12.640 | It was fantastic.

00:18:13.880 | I, is there another angle for transferring points to hotels

00:18:17.960 | that you've ever found?

00:18:18.720 | Makes sense.

00:18:19.320 | Yeah.

00:18:19.960 | You know, I recently MX had big bonuses to Hilton and Marriott.

00:18:23.680 | Uh, I did the math.

00:18:25.600 | So I go to Miami quite a bit and I was staying at the W which was

00:18:29.640 | like 80,000 Marriott points a night.

00:18:32.720 | And there was a 50% bonus from MX.

00:18:34.680 | So basically, and it was a $2,000 a night hotel during peak weeks.

00:18:38.920 | So I was doing the math and like 50,000 MX points was getting me a $2,000 a night

00:18:44.840 | hotel during these super crazy weeks.

00:18:46.840 | And I would get upgraded in elite status.

00:18:48.440 | So I did transfer MX to Marriott.

00:18:51.160 | I have also for the Waldorf Astoria Maldives, when you can find it for 90,000

00:18:55.680 | Hilton, when there's an MX to Hilton, it's already one and a half, uh, one to

00:18:59.640 | one and a half, but when it's one to two, 45,000 MX points for $1,500 room.

00:19:04.440 | Is a pretty good value.

00:19:06.000 | You know, you're getting over 3 cents per point.

00:19:08.280 | So yeah, there are in general though, MX is best to airlines and a

00:19:13.080 | Hyatt points are extremely valuable.

00:19:15.640 | And now chase and also now built the credit card that you earn points on rent.

00:19:21.000 | You can transfer actually to Hyatt one-to-one or American as well.

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00:22:08.480 | Yeah.

00:22:09.240 | I feel like we always talk in the points world about Chase and

00:22:12.560 | Amex are like the core tenants.

00:22:14.200 | And I know, I don't remember how many years ago it was, but, you know,

00:22:17.600 | Cap One, Citi, they weren't really transfer points and now they are.

00:22:20.920 | How do you think Citi, Capital One, and I guess Bilt fit in this ecosystem with

00:22:26.640 | most of the conversation focusing on Chase and Amex?

00:22:29.400 | Yeah.

00:22:30.520 | I mean, Capital One is really stepping up their game.

00:22:33.600 | I went to their first new lounge that they're opening up at Dallas Fort Worth.

00:22:37.200 | Gorgeous.

00:22:37.960 | Like Peloton bikes, relaxation rooms, really high-end food and beverage.

00:22:42.600 | In venture, yes, you can use your points for purchase a race or, or

00:22:47.040 | you can transfer one-to-one to AeroPlan, even Turkish now.

00:22:51.280 | There's a bunch of one-to-one partners.

00:22:52.880 | When, when Capital One launched, they were funky.

00:22:55.440 | It wasn't one-to-one.

00:22:56.600 | It was very complicated math.

00:22:58.280 | And now they've listened to our feedback and they have a

00:23:01.880 | lot of one-to-one partners.

00:23:03.040 | So I think Capital One is somewhat of the underdog, but they've always been huge

00:23:07.880 | with that mid-market and sub, not subprime, but the lower market cards.

00:23:12.400 | And they've really made huge strides in the up-market space.

00:23:15.640 | Citi, I love my Citi points.

00:23:17.480 | I use my Prestige for 5X on dining most of the time.

00:23:20.760 | The transfer partners aren't as prestigious.

00:23:22.800 | For a while, you could transfer to American, which was kind of cool.

00:23:25.680 | Their partners are, are, are second tier and even Citi's kind of backing

00:23:30.680 | away from the premium, you can't even get the Prestige card anymore.

00:23:34.400 | I don't think Citi knows exactly what it wants to be totally in the marketplace.

00:23:38.520 | They've launched more cash back cards lately, but you know, and they've kind

00:23:42.960 | of, the Citi Prestige and the Fourth Night Free used to be so amazing.

00:23:46.160 | They've rolled that back.

00:23:47.240 | So I think Capital One is rising in the up-market reward space and

00:23:51.760 | Citi's kind of in a holding pattern.

00:23:53.200 | Yeah.

00:23:54.040 | I mean, I, I recommend the Citi Double Cash when people don't

00:23:56.800 | want to play the points game, but I, I, I haven't had a Citi card since.

00:24:01.000 | I remember there was a 75,000 point American signup bonus on all three cards.

00:24:05.800 | And I remember getting all three in one day.

00:24:07.800 | And, and that was the last Citi cards I had.

00:24:10.760 | Well, and it's interesting with the American Airlines new, did you see

00:24:13.480 | their new elite program where they're revamping how you earn elite status?

00:24:17.680 | So instead of getting away with EQDs and Ms and whatever, they're

00:24:21.880 | now just have AA loyalty points that, so you need 200,000 points

00:24:26.720 | in a year to get exec plat.

00:24:27.920 | But you could spend 200 grand on a co-branded card and without

00:24:32.960 | stepping on a plane, earn a exec plat.

00:24:35.120 | So all these programs are really becoming frequent spender programs.

00:24:38.840 | We've seen that slowly over time as they're adding in these revenue

00:24:41.920 | requirements and there's winners and losers with every change.

00:24:44.920 | If you are buying expensive tickets and spending a lot on credit cards, there's

00:24:50.040 | never been a better time to be in this space.

00:24:51.680 | If you're on a shoestring budget, trying to buy mistake fares and get

00:24:56.040 | tucked to your status, it's a lot harder to do that nowadays.

00:24:59.280 | Yeah.

00:25:00.200 | I gotta be careful with American.

00:25:02.000 | I have some bad relationships there from, I don't know if you remember,

00:25:05.840 | maybe, I don't know, 10 years ago.

00:25:07.600 | It seemed there was a promo with this card called Founders Card and Founders

00:25:12.280 | Card gave everyone that signed up for it free AA gold.

00:25:16.360 | And so the card was a hundred bucks a year.

00:25:18.560 | And you can't buy AA gold at the time.

00:25:22.520 | The lower tier statuses have gotten worse over the years.

00:25:25.920 | But back then, AA gold for a hundred bucks was a no brainer.

00:25:28.840 | And so I went on Flyer Talk.

00:25:31.240 | I posted my referral link and probably 400 or 500 people signed up.

00:25:35.800 | And it turns out the American team that did this deal with Founders Card was

00:25:40.000 | just like a guy that kind of did it on the side and it was fine.

00:25:43.400 | But AA HQ sent a cease and desist to Founders Card.

00:25:47.840 | They asked me to get removed from the program.

00:25:50.200 | All the referral points I'd gotten got removed.

00:25:53.240 | Everyone thought I was scamming everyone.

00:25:55.320 | And so...

00:25:55.840 | I remember Founders Card's interesting.

00:25:57.760 | Over the years, it's like, we have benefits, but they can't

00:26:00.800 | really say what they are, you know?

00:26:02.600 | Yeah.

00:26:04.080 | Though this is a reason because they're not allowed to market the

00:26:07.840 | benefits because they want people to sign up for other reasons.

00:26:10.600 | Right.

00:26:11.320 | Yeah.

00:26:12.080 | So 26 cards.

00:26:13.520 | When do you think about canceling cards?

00:26:15.320 | Do you have a rule of thumb that you use when you get a new one for a bonus?

00:26:18.880 | Absolutely.

00:26:20.320 | I generally don't cancel cards.

00:26:21.840 | I'll usually downgrade them to like a no fee version.

00:26:24.560 | Even the no fee cards usually have some perks that are valuable.

00:26:28.200 | You know, I look at every card in my wallet.

00:26:30.240 | I mean, I'm a little bit different.

00:26:31.560 | I'm in the cards business.

00:26:32.640 | So it's like having cards, getting the marketing materials, it's

00:26:35.920 | like, it's good for business.

00:26:37.120 | And also I get reimbursed on annual fees as part of being a TPG employee.

00:26:40.920 | We have a cool program, but in general, like if I'm not using the card, I don't

00:26:45.120 | want the account to just be dormant though, because they'll close it

00:26:47.600 | automatically with no activity.

00:26:49.000 | So if I can't downgrade it, I will cancel a card if there's just

00:26:52.160 | absolutely no real benefit to it.

00:26:54.000 | But most cards these days have perks that easily out the annual fees on them.

00:26:58.640 | But, you know, I recommend to people do an audit twice a year, three times a

00:27:01.920 | year, and get rid of the ones that aren't holding their weight.

00:27:05.000 | Yeah.

00:27:06.360 | A reader wrote in and asked, you know, should I keep my Marriott Bonvoy card?

00:27:10.280 | And, you know, the annual benefit, it's like, I think it's 95 bucks and

00:27:14.000 | you get a hotel in a category four.

00:27:16.440 | And my answer is if you're going to use the category four, it's a no-brainer.

00:27:20.880 | If you're not going to use the category four, depends how much

00:27:23.560 | you spend at Marriott, right?

00:27:24.840 | The multipliers on a Marriott card, if you're spending money

00:27:27.640 | at a Marriott, are great.

00:27:28.680 | Pretty good.

00:27:29.280 | Yeah.

00:27:29.560 | But if you're not, you know.

00:27:31.640 | So I still have my Southwest card, which is a bummer because I think

00:27:35.240 | Southwest has a huge bonus right now.

00:27:37.080 | A hundred thousand.

00:27:37.720 | Yeah.

00:27:37.880 | Get that companion pass.

00:27:39.200 | Yeah.

00:27:39.800 | So if you're listening, but don't do it.

00:27:41.320 | Do you think it'll still be around Jan one?

00:27:43.520 | Well, you can apply.

00:27:45.000 | Just don't hit your minimum spend until the new year.

00:27:47.440 | So the points drop, you know, the statement after you hit your spend.

00:27:50.600 | So you can get it.

00:27:51.720 | Yeah.

00:27:52.280 | I made that mistake once and I had to transfer some Marriott

00:27:55.600 | points to try to close the gap.

00:27:57.320 | Cause you need it.

00:27:57.880 | You used to need two Southwest cards to hit the companion pass.

00:28:01.760 | Yeah.

00:28:01.920 | Yeah.

00:28:02.200 | Yeah.

00:28:02.680 | The companion pass on Southwest is one of the best perks out there.

00:28:05.640 | Uh, you can read more about it.

00:28:08.160 | Just Google Southwest companion pass ins and outs, but essentially

00:28:11.160 | if you qualify for it in January of any given year for two years, through

00:28:16.160 | the end of December, the next year, a passenger applies free with you,

00:28:21.400 | whether you're paying with points or cash on Southwest, so think about

00:28:25.240 | if you travel with someone else, you can change a companion over time,

00:28:28.320 | but it's an insanely valuable kind of one of those insider things that.

00:28:33.160 | People, if you fly Southwest, you should know about the companion

00:28:36.280 | pass and you can qualify.

00:28:37.520 | You don't have to fly a hundred flights.

00:28:38.840 | You can qualify via credit card, sign up bonus and spend.

00:28:41.760 | And when the signup bonuses are like a hundred thousand, you only need to

00:28:44.120 | spend like 10,000 or less to get this amazing benefit, just make sure if

00:28:49.840 | you're, if you're going to go for this next year, which means buy one,

00:28:53.200 | get one free 2022 and 2023.

00:28:56.080 | And by the way, that works with points.

00:28:58.240 | So when you use those a hundred thousand points to book flights,

00:29:01.280 | you still get a free companion.

00:29:02.680 | Uh, just pay the $5 TSA fee.

00:29:05.400 | It's amazing.

00:29:05.800 | Exactly.

00:29:06.280 | So if you're doing that, don't hit that minimum spend any earlier than

00:29:10.240 | Jan one or you'll lose a whole year of it.

00:29:12.560 | Any other big, uh, signup bonuses or cool deals right now?

00:29:16.760 | Yeah.

00:29:18.680 | I mean, I think there's, there are a ton.

00:29:20.440 | I mean, there's just so many perks over the pandemic, you know, credit card

00:29:23.840 | companies have added tons of perks to cards, trying to think if there's any

00:29:28.080 | one in particular or any new perks you're excited about, well, I mean,

00:29:32.920 | definitely these capital one lounges.

00:29:35.240 | They haven't announced who will get access to them, but just seeing the

00:29:39.000 | lounge, there's going to be one in Denver and DC in 2022, the Dallas

00:29:42.680 | one opens November, 2021.

00:29:44.640 | That I'm excited about.

00:29:46.120 | What about some of these crazy aspirational cards?

00:29:49.120 | Everyone in this game always is like, ah, that Amex black, that Amex black.

00:29:52.760 | And then I had a friend who got it and he's like, you know what?

00:29:54.800 | Like the way I spend, I don't know if it's worth it.

00:29:57.080 | What do you think of the high end cards?

00:29:58.640 | Yeah.

00:29:59.240 | So I've had the Centurion card for five years now, but the key is

00:30:03.560 | get the business Centurion.

00:30:04.960 | The personal Centurion is horrible.

00:30:06.600 | It's literally worse than a platinum card.

00:30:08.680 | Unless you really value Equinox membership.

00:30:11.160 | The reason the business Centurion is so valuable, they don't advertise it.

00:30:15.080 | Well, they don't advertise the cards at all.

00:30:16.520 | Is that you get a 50% rebate on pay with points, which means your Amex

00:30:21.800 | points are worth 2 cents each towards buying flights through the Amex portal.

00:30:28.240 | And Amex travel has also has discounted business class fares that

00:30:32.600 | are fully more reflect, more flexible.

00:30:34.680 | So, you know, with an Amex platinum, your points are worth 1 cent business

00:30:39.520 | platinum, they're worth 1.35 cents per point.

00:30:42.960 | And with this Centurion, you're getting 2 cents per point in value.

00:30:46.200 | So it really, if you have tons of Amex points and you'd like the flexibility

00:30:49.840 | to buy whatever the flight you want, you earn elite miles on those flights.

00:30:52.920 | That's the no brainer, you know, Centurion it's $5,000 a year.

00:30:57.040 | Now you get top tier access to Equinox.

00:30:59.840 | Well, if you don't live in a city where there's an Equinox or, you

00:31:02.200 | know, that's a $0 benefit.

00:31:04.040 | So there's a bunch of other perks.

00:31:06.040 | I mean, in general, my Amex concierge, Ray, the way I value it is that he's our

00:31:11.840 | booker for all TPG kind of high-end travel.

00:31:14.880 | And during the pandemic, when shit hit the fan and you couldn't even get

00:31:18.320 | through to a airline for credits and things like that, I just email Ray and

00:31:23.800 | say, cancel these four tickets.

00:31:25.400 | We get full refunds, you know, you have the backing of Amex at you.

00:31:29.520 | And there's a value to that.

00:31:30.760 | The purchase protection is insane.

00:31:33.240 | Anything I break, even if it's my fault, they'll pretty

00:31:35.600 | much just wipe off my charge.

00:31:37.000 | So there's yes, points are one side of the equation, but when you look at

00:31:40.600 | these super premium cards, you really have to look at the perks and your

00:31:43.600 | personal, you know, Centurion lounges are super crowded and, you know, you'll

00:31:47.200 | get turned away a lot of times due to overcrowding, but never, if you're

00:31:51.360 | Centurion, they'll even clear a table for you and give you vogue.

00:31:54.040 | So that's kind of cool.

00:31:55.800 | So business Centurion, I think is a winner.

00:31:59.120 | And if you do want to, you can call Amex and kind of raise your hand and

00:32:03.040 | say, you're interested in the card.

00:32:04.240 | If there's no official way to apply for it though, you know, Amex

00:32:07.440 | platinum just raised their annual fee.

00:32:09.320 | They added a bunch of other perks.

00:32:11.120 | If you can get value out of the soul cycle benefit, or, you know, people do

00:32:16.040 | say, oh, it's a little bit like a coupon book and it's, it's not exactly that.

00:32:19.520 | I think it's a little bit more valuable, but you should go through it and say,

00:32:22.360 | well, I actually get that value from this card.

00:32:24.600 | We've seen huge entry, even after Amex raised the annual fee on the platinum,

00:32:27.720 | there's still a huge interest in the card.

00:32:29.240 | They just reported in their quarterly results, huge uptick in interest.

00:32:33.360 | So there is a market people want to pay for premium experiences.

00:32:37.760 | So I bet Amex will continue to double down on the premium space.

00:32:41.560 | Whereas Chase and City and Cap One are a little bit of a step down in terms

00:32:45.520 | of the annual fees and the perks that they're offering.

00:32:47.560 | Have you ever gone too far with all the points and miles game?

00:32:52.000 | Is there a particular reward or experience where you're like, you know

00:32:55.400 | what, you can go too deep down the rabbit hole at some points?

00:32:59.120 | Well, I think in general, pre pandemic, I was just traveling nonstop, you know,

00:33:03.520 | and too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

00:33:06.200 | Like I was constantly jet lagged.

00:33:08.280 | You know, I had a lot of work travel, plus we do a lot, I do a lot of charity

00:33:12.040 | work and then plus personal travel and it was all blending together.

00:33:15.520 | And I think, so I think in general, I like overdosed on travel.

00:33:19.560 | And so the pandemic for me was a really nice way and once in a lifetime

00:33:23.240 | opportunity to hit that reset and rebuild my travel into a place where it actually

00:33:27.800 | serves me, like, just because I can, doesn't mean I should, I say that to

00:33:31.040 | myself all the time now and learning how to say no to things, even though it's,

00:33:34.080 | Oh, it's Paris is reopening and Air France has business class availability.

00:33:38.040 | I have to go to Paris this weekend, even though I have four other plans next

00:33:41.240 | week and I know I'll be exhausted.

00:33:42.760 | So I think in general, I've never been a crazy miles and points, uh,

00:33:47.080 | person in terms of the gray areas, even mileage running.

00:33:51.240 | I've only really ever done one or two mileage runs in my life.

00:33:55.000 | I'm not the type to fly to Australia and turn around and fly back to me.

00:33:58.840 | That just, it really is crazy.

00:34:00.800 | And luckily I find enough where I don't have to do that.

00:34:02.960 | I understand why people do, and I'm not judging it, but I try to keep the,

00:34:07.320 | the points and miles addiction, uh, to a minimum and realize my personal

00:34:13.320 | physical health is far more valuable than any point or mile.

00:34:16.160 | Absolutely.

00:34:17.280 | Yeah.

00:34:17.600 | And I think I'm similar to you in that over the time, as you learn the points

00:34:22.280 | game and you maximize points, elite status just matters less.

00:34:26.120 | And so I think I have my silver United through Marriott, which is basically

00:34:31.680 | I get a free check bag, which we have a kid now, so I never thought check bags

00:34:35.720 | mattered, and then you had a child and I'm like, uh, can I check six bags?

00:34:39.880 | How do I set the, you know, I got a crib and a car seat and all this stuff.

00:34:43.560 | Do you, do you ever check bags?

00:34:44.960 | I do, you know, it annoys me.

00:34:48.160 | I was in Europe for like two weeks this summer.

00:34:49.840 | I just couldn't, they were like different climates beach.

00:34:54.080 | And so I will check it back.

00:34:55.880 | It is so annoying though.

00:34:57.280 | I hate myself when I do it.

00:34:58.680 | Cause you know, I was flying from Ibiza to Milan on easy jet and I'm

00:35:02.280 | like, whatever, I'll just pay to check the bag.

00:35:04.240 | Well, of course there's like a strike in Italy, an air traffic,

00:35:07.600 | strike flights delayed nine hours.

00:35:10.120 | I'm like, no way in hell.

00:35:11.160 | Am I going to sit at this crowded, horrible airport for nine hours?

00:35:14.640 | So great.

00:35:15.280 | I'm just going to rebook myself.

00:35:16.640 | Oh crap.

00:35:18.480 | My bag is on the plane.

00:35:19.600 | I go and easy jet has no employees anywhere.

00:35:22.880 | So I'm like, okay, well I'll just go back to the checking counter and someone

00:35:26.640 | there will have to figure it out.

00:35:28.400 | Well, easy jet has like two flights a day out of Ibiza and the same employee

00:35:33.880 | that works at was working the a hundred person long line that I've refused to

00:35:38.280 | wait in, but now I'm like past security.

00:35:40.360 | So I ended up getting it.

00:35:42.560 | I had to get like a cop in the airport to help get an airport manager that

00:35:45.840 | they pulled the bag off the plane.

00:35:47.120 | But you know, especially nowadays travel goes wrong so often, you

00:35:51.840 | know, delays cancellations, you really limit yourself when you check a bag

00:35:56.920 | because you can't just pop off a plane.

00:35:58.520 | Oh, there's another flight to Chicago across the hall.

00:36:01.040 | I'm going to hop on that, which is the joy of miles and points, especially

00:36:04.520 | you can be sitting on a plane and rebook yourself, but long story short,

00:36:07.280 | like if I'm going on a long trip, you know, I like to have different looks

00:36:11.040 | every day on vacation and you know, when you're in the social media, I, people

00:36:15.680 | will call you out for wearing the same thing over and over, so maybe I should

00:36:18.720 | probably stop caring about that.

00:36:20.800 | Yeah.

00:36:21.920 | I mean, we just went on a flight this past weekend to Austin and

00:36:25.800 | everything was delayed.

00:36:26.760 | We get to the airport and they're like, Hey, you're going to miss your

00:36:29.280 | connection and we were like, Oh, but there's a nonstop.

00:36:31.720 | Can we just get on the nonstop?

00:36:33.000 | They're like, well, you know, it's oversold, but 28 people haven't checked

00:36:36.360 | in and I was feeling good and they're like, there there's two people ahead of

00:36:40.000 | you and they called them up first and they were like, did you check bags?

00:36:43.520 | They're like, yes.

00:36:44.160 | And they're like, sorry.

00:36:44.920 | And then they called us.

00:36:46.320 | So, you know, that was the one where I was feeling pretty good.

00:36:49.080 | We didn't check bags because we were managed to get out.

00:36:51.680 | I just, I was just spending time with the senior airline exec and we're

00:36:55.840 | talking about this topic and he's like, honestly, when I interview people,

00:36:59.200 | I ask them, do you check a bag?

00:37:00.640 | And if they say yes, they don't get the job.

00:37:02.680 | It's cold.

00:37:05.360 | Of course you mentioned earlier using the MX concierge.

00:37:08.520 | When you travel, how do you collect information?

00:37:12.320 | I know TBG has a ton of great content on airlines, hotels, but what about

00:37:17.120 | when you're figuring out what to do somewhere, where to eat, are there

00:37:20.440 | sources or concierges or anything you use?

00:37:23.320 | It's awesome.

00:37:24.080 | I mean, I Instagram for me is so amazing.

00:37:26.760 | Last week I went to Dallas for the first time in a couple of years.

00:37:29.600 | And I know Dallas has a pretty good food scene.

00:37:31.280 | So as I was boarding at Newark, I said, all right, off to Dallas,

00:37:34.880 | like, what do you got?

00:37:35.840 | And like hundreds and hundreds of messages come in.

00:37:40.120 | And I just kind of sourced, like you see the patterns and my

00:37:44.160 | readers have really good taste.

00:37:45.440 | So like, I've never gotten bad recommendations.

00:37:49.360 | Now what we want to do at TPG.

00:37:51.960 | So we just bought lonely planet during the, uh, about a year or so ago.

00:37:56.280 | So we envisioned the points guy being getting you there, lonely planet,

00:38:00.160 | really diving deep into cool experiences.

00:38:02.320 | So lonely planet's about to relaunch really cool new branding and lots of

00:38:06.080 | investment into what to do when you're there, but I think we can do more at TPG

00:38:11.200 | as well.

00:38:11.680 | I'd love to have like user generated forums.

00:38:14.360 | So just like, you know, our readers can share and it's almost like trip

00:38:17.800 | advisor, but for like smart travelers, I think there's a big need for that.

00:38:21.040 | Cause like when you go to trip advisor, it's a shit show, you know, two reviews,

00:38:24.960 | one, one star, one five star.

00:38:26.200 | You're like, clearly this person has never traveled before and their

00:38:29.600 | expectations are out of control.

00:38:31.000 | So on our product roadmap is how do we leverage this amazing community of

00:38:35.840 | really smart travelers and get their recommendation surface so people can

00:38:40.240 | share usually just through friends.

00:38:42.400 | I love Conde Nast traveler, travel and leisure, but going through Instagram

00:38:46.440 | or asking my friends who I know have been places, that's like the best way

00:38:49.360 | to get, get the real Intel.

00:38:51.320 | Yeah.

00:38:52.200 | Trip advisor reviews.

00:38:53.800 | The only thing I find myself using them for is I search them.

00:38:57.520 | If I have a question, like now we have a kid, does this hotel have cribs?

00:39:01.080 | I'll go search the review for cribs.

00:39:02.800 | But man, when you read these reviews, you're like, I don't know if I

00:39:06.080 | could trust anything here.

00:39:07.160 | And when you know, so many of them are fake, you know, so many lawsuits lately

00:39:11.240 | of rival hotel is trashing each other.

00:39:14.040 | Cause it really does to get the number one hotel or number of top 10.

00:39:17.160 | It's valuable.

00:39:18.560 | So yeah, it's valuable, but you really just need to learn how to.

00:39:21.680 | To leverage it.

00:39:23.360 | Yep.

00:39:23.600 | When you're traveling outside of points and miles, do you have favorite travel

00:39:27.840 | hacks, travel tips that you use at any point along the way?

00:39:30.880 | Well, my two famous ones are the, uh, number one, when you're wearing a mask

00:39:35.160 | now on a plane, putting your mask around your headphones so that it does not go

00:39:39.440 | around your sensitive ear, you know, especially on long flights, you can get

00:39:43.120 | like rashes, so people like that.

00:39:45.400 | I will just say I've broken several masks by stretching it too far, especially

00:39:48.920 | with these big Apple headphones that I have, but it is nice and people like that

00:39:52.200 | one, my old school is the TPG stab.

00:39:55.080 | It's taking a fork.

00:39:56.400 | Whenever you're eating a salad or opening up a compressed, you stab it.

00:40:01.000 | Depressurize it so that when you open it, it doesn't splurge all over you.

00:40:04.800 | Those are, those are my two hacks for travel.

00:40:08.320 | There is nothing I love more than learning that something I enjoy is

00:40:13.320 | actually so good for you and nothing showcases that better than Pu-erh tea.

00:40:17.640 | It has so many health benefits and I think one of the best and easiest ways

00:40:21.520 | to consume it is from our sponsor today, Peak Tea.

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00:40:52.640 | They have so many products, but lately I've been alternating between the green

00:40:56.880 | Pu-erh for mental clarity and energy and the black Pu-erh, which helps kickstart

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00:41:06.760 | one of my favorite things to drink.

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00:42:57.720 | I just want to thank you quick for listening to and supporting the show.

00:43:02.760 | Your support is what keeps this show going.

00:43:05.600 | To get all of the URLs, codes, deals, and discounts from our partners, you can go

00:43:10.800 | to allthehacks.com/deals, so please consider supporting those who support us.

00:43:17.000 | Anything you do, you know, in a first day in a city that you haven't been to before?

00:43:21.640 | I mean, I love to just walk around.

00:43:25.360 | I mean, I always will eat, you know, find a good, like I'm not a good person when

00:43:32.040 | hangry, but yeah, usually just get a good meal, walk around, you know, on Instagram,

00:43:37.320 | see what, what people are recommending.

00:43:39.800 | And the cool thing is people who follow me run restaurants or, you know, when I

00:43:42.880 | went to Dallas, the coolest restaurant is Monarch Room.

00:43:45.760 | It's on the 50th floor, booked up, but like the owners of the restaurant were

00:43:49.600 | like, Hey, come tonight.

00:43:50.400 | I'm like, okay.

00:43:50.960 | So I'm a little bit of a lazy traveler and I'll be like, let me see what opportunity

00:43:54.160 | lands in the lap and just meeting up with interesting people.

00:43:56.880 | I mean, some people think I'm crazy for meeting people off of Instagram, but

00:43:59.680 | I've, there's a, I've got a cool follower.

00:44:02.000 | So I've never, to this day, I haven't had a bad meetup yet.

00:44:04.520 | And you know, meeting a local, it changes the experience completely.

00:44:08.720 | Yeah, and you don't have to be a celebrity, right?

00:44:10.760 | My wife and I went to, we'd backpack for seven months and we were using couch

00:44:14.960 | surfing and every night, you know, before we had points before we're doing anything.

00:44:18.560 | And it was amazing to just hang out with locals.

00:44:21.680 | And you can do that by couch surfing.

00:44:24.200 | You could do that with sites.

00:44:25.320 | Like, I think it's with locals is one, there's a bunch of sites where you can

00:44:28.000 | book a local tour guide all the way up until, you know, where you are, where you

00:44:31.800 | could just say who who's around and, you know, filter the list, any advice as

00:44:36.200 | someone who's gone from writing about points to notoriety in the space for me,

00:44:41.000 | as this podcast has been taking off like crazy, what do I need to think about as

00:44:44.920 | I kind of move up in, in the world of, of points and miles towards the direction

00:44:49.680 | you're at, maybe never, I'll never be the points guy, but.

00:44:52.160 | Well, I mean, I would just say, I still read comments, emails.

00:44:57.320 | I know it can get, you know, especially when you have a lot on your plate.

00:44:59.600 | I just never lose touch of like the pulse of what your original audience wants.

00:45:05.040 | Also know that you have to evolve and people will probably not be happy when you

00:45:10.680 | evolve from what you started originally.

00:45:12.680 | I had to learn a long time ago, people, Oh, you're a sellout.

00:45:16.320 | You're just doing this to make money.

00:45:18.160 | And I'm like, that's not the only reason I'm doing it, but

00:45:20.880 | what's wrong with making money?

00:45:22.000 | What's wrong with having a vision to have bigger impact.

00:45:24.720 | We actually turned the comments off on the points guide throughout the pandemic

00:45:27.600 | because there was just so much hate and vitriol come up with your

00:45:31.720 | own policy and stands for that.

00:45:33.320 | Like, I think in general, the community, the points and miles

00:45:35.720 | and travelers are good people.

00:45:37.320 | But there's just freaks out there that are, you know, the trolls

00:45:41.960 | that just want to be nasty.

00:45:43.880 | And I, you know, I have a policy on my personal Instagram.

00:45:46.440 | Like if you say anything nasty, if you just are being a negative

00:45:49.600 | person and a lot of times I'll go through like DMS and I'll just see

00:45:52.680 | that person just constantly says negative things like this is a bad person.

00:45:56.200 | You have no right to be in my sphere.

00:45:59.440 | You know, I don't owe anyone anything.

00:46:01.920 | I give a lot.

00:46:02.720 | I'll share and help people, but I block instantly with zero

00:46:06.640 | regrets if someone's being a jerk.

00:46:08.160 | So I don't know.

00:46:09.680 | I mean, it's been, uh, it's fun to grow a business.

00:46:13.000 | You've done it before you've sold a business and, but just have fun with it.

00:46:16.320 | Never, never lose sight of like why you started it in the first place.

00:46:20.400 | Yeah, I think that's great advice.

00:46:22.880 | The one thing I'm jealous about is when you run a website, you know, obviously

00:46:27.120 | if you turn comments off during the pandemic, it's different, but when you

00:46:29.880 | have a newsletter, when you have a website, it's, it's easy to have a two

00:46:32.800 | way channel and podcasts are very difficult, right?

00:46:35.120 | I, every episode I give our listeners an email address and lots of people write in.

00:46:40.040 | And I love it.

00:46:40.800 | I read every message.

00:46:42.000 | I try to make sure if I haven't answered a question you've sent, it's probably

00:46:44.920 | because I'm saving it for a Q and a episode.

00:46:48.120 | And so I'm trying to build that two way channel so we can have a dialogue and I

00:46:51.520 | could really get to understand the audience and, you know, I'm sure we're

00:46:54.840 | going to turn ads on because it turns out this is a lot of work and finding guests,

00:46:59.320 | prepping for interviews.

00:47:00.440 | And if I'm one day going to do that full time, you know, I have to live too.

00:47:04.440 | Your real fans though, we'll respect that.

00:47:08.280 | And truly the minute I started making more money on the points guy, I expanded the

00:47:12.840 | business.

00:47:13.160 | I hired people and it benefited everyone versus just having the Brian blog.

00:47:17.400 | Right.

00:47:17.720 | I think we all overthink as creators.

00:47:19.880 | We overthink those decisions like turning on monetization and I'm going to cannibalize

00:47:24.160 | what I've built and break.

00:47:25.280 | It's like so much of that is in our heads, you know, like.

00:47:29.320 | People, if you're creating good content, you should get paid for that and you should

00:47:33.400 | not feel bad about it, period.

00:47:34.960 | Yep.

00:47:35.840 | So expect it might even be this episode might even be the first one with an ad.

00:47:40.160 | Who knows?

00:47:40.720 | A few kind of rapid fire questions towards the end.

00:47:43.760 | Travel insurance.

00:47:45.360 | What do you think?

00:47:46.000 | I personally don't do travel insurance unless, you know, nowadays like Bahamas will

00:47:50.960 | make you pay for it.

00:47:51.760 | I'll gladly pay.

00:47:52.960 | But in general, I book all my travel with Amex.

00:47:55.760 | I highly recommend use a card with travel protections.

00:47:58.560 | You know, I years ago I was in Bali when the volcano was about to explode and I was

00:48:03.200 | like, OK, I got to get out of here.

00:48:05.000 | I actually booked a private jet in city because I had it had accident, you know, crazy

00:48:09.720 | insurance on it.

00:48:10.640 | I got reimbursed the 20 grand for the private jet that got me to to Jakarta, which was

00:48:15.200 | pretty awesome.

00:48:15.960 | So I don't know.

00:48:17.080 | I and I have so many miles and points.

00:48:18.480 | I redirect myself.

00:48:19.600 | I think if you're going on a cruise with 20 family members and spending 100 grand and

00:48:24.680 | you want that extra protection.

00:48:26.120 | But in general, the type of coverage that cancel for any reason is super expensive.

00:48:30.920 | You know, you're not going to get that you get back at most 75 percent of the cost of

00:48:35.400 | the trip. So look at what do you think the odds are of this trip going haywire?

00:48:39.320 | So I think there are good policies, but short answer is I don't really purchase it.

00:48:44.000 | Yeah. For someone who's learning the points game, ready to start using some points.

00:48:48.960 | Let's assume the world's fully open.

00:48:51.440 | What are your top kind of two to three award redemption slash destinations?

00:48:56.560 | So one of the things I'll say if you're new to the game is learn how to search for

00:49:01.480 | availability. You know, we have expert flyer, which we own, which will help set alerts

00:49:06.440 | if certain availability opens up.

00:49:08.040 | But also last minute airlines open up tons of space.

00:49:10.760 | So if you have flexibility, keep checking last minute and then go on a trip when space

00:49:17.000 | opens up. I mean, I'm a scuba diver.

00:49:20.040 | And who doesn't love an amazing beach?

00:49:21.640 | And I think in the points and miles world, it's like Tahiti and Maldives are like the

00:49:25.960 | two kind of I think Maldives are number one in terms of like the dream redemption.

00:49:31.280 | There's so many good points hotels.

00:49:33.240 | I love Waldorf Astoria, St.

00:49:35.400 | Regis, Ritz Carlton, Maldives, Park Heights, a little bit older, but charming, but not

00:49:42.240 | not up to the caliber of the others.

00:49:43.760 | All pretty good uses of points.

00:49:45.760 | And yes, it takes forever to get there, but fly Emirates, Qatar using miles and the

00:49:52.320 | journey becomes fun.

00:49:53.520 | If you've never flown in a Middle Eastern carrier like Emirates or Qatar, they're

00:49:56.920 | amazing. And don't think of it as like it's going to take me 24 hours to get there.

00:50:00.320 | Like, enjoy the actual flight.

00:50:01.800 | You know, Q suites are amazing.

00:50:03.440 | Emirates first class on the A380 is iconic.

00:50:06.480 | Take your shower in the sky, drink Dom.

00:50:09.080 | I actually once brought the Dom bottle in the shower with me.

00:50:11.840 | So but Tahiti is also amazing.

00:50:14.080 | It's eight hours from the West Coast and lots of good points.

00:50:16.680 | Hotels are just so freaking beautiful.

00:50:18.960 | But, you know, Europe's been on sale this year.

00:50:21.000 | You know, Air France, 57,500 miles using flying blue.

00:50:24.800 | They transfer for most programs to fly Air France business class.

00:50:28.160 | And there's been availability at that saver level pretty much any day that may change

00:50:32.400 | in November now that Europeans will be coming to the US and filling those planes more.

00:50:36.200 | And South Africa, I mean, if you want to take a trip of a lifetime, you know, United

00:50:41.720 | Flies are nonstop, pretty good award availability or through the Middle East.

00:50:45.880 | But South Africa is my favorite just to beauty, natural beauty, Cape Town, stunning.

00:50:52.120 | The wine country is outstanding.

00:50:53.880 | And then safari is like my favorite.

00:50:55.560 | So those are my like favorite destinations to use points.

00:50:58.560 | Yeah.

00:50:59.400 | South Africa is, is amazing.

00:51:01.680 | And, you know, if you haven't traveled a lot, it's surprisingly easy to travel, right?

00:51:05.600 | You know, you, you've heard that travel around Africa can be tough, but South

00:51:08.960 | Africa is kind of a different beast and it's, it's amazing.

00:51:11.560 | And have you got a chance to go up to Namibia when you're there?

00:51:14.480 | You know, I've traveled to a lot of African countries.

00:51:17.600 | I love, I have not done Namibia yet, but I've done, you know, Botswana, Rwanda's

00:51:22.960 | absolutely breathtaking.

00:51:25.120 | I've done the gorillas twice now in Rwanda.

00:51:26.960 | Cannot recommend enough, you know, Masai Mara in Kenya.

00:51:31.560 | I've done a safari on the great migration in Tanzania.

00:51:35.360 | I also love West Africa, Ghana.

00:51:37.240 | I've been probably 15 times.

00:51:38.720 | We do a lot of peace work with, with, uh, Nobel peace prize winners there in Liberia.

00:51:43.000 | Really fascinating, culturally rich, very safe places to go, even though, you know,

00:51:49.040 | in the media we'll say it's so safe, you know, but you stay in the right places.

00:51:53.840 | You listen to locals.

00:51:54.680 | You don't go to areas you're not familiar with, just like, you know, in

00:51:58.040 | cities like New York or Chicago.

00:51:59.480 | Yeah.

00:52:00.720 | I think what, what helped me when it's kind of an interesting thing to do before

00:52:04.800 | we went on this trip around the world, I went and I bought the Lonely Planet for

00:52:09.560 | New York because I lived in New York at the time in the Lonely Planet, they're

00:52:12.600 | like, Hey, when you're in New York, make sure to put your money in a, one of those

00:52:15.840 | belt wallet things that you hide in your pants.

00:52:18.080 | And I was like, wait a second.

00:52:19.080 | They're saying New York is dangerous.

00:52:20.920 | I walk through New York every single day.

00:52:22.960 | And so it kind of gave me this realization that basically there's a blogger or a book

00:52:28.920 | that will tell you that everywhere is unsafe.

00:52:31.240 | And so reading the travel guides for your own city will help you understand a little

00:52:36.280 | bit about what anyone can say.

00:52:38.320 | Yeah.

00:52:38.760 | Yeah.

00:52:39.080 | And so, yeah.

00:52:39.720 | So I think all those places, fantastic.

00:52:41.920 | Have you been to Cape Verde?

00:52:43.200 | For some reason I want to go and I've never been.

00:52:45.680 | I haven't, but I want to go to São Tomé and Príncipe and like all those little

00:52:50.400 | funky, I really want to go do Azores and actually United's now going to

00:52:54.400 | be flying nonstop to the Azores.

00:52:56.680 | I actually, throughout the pandemic, I got, uh, I did the Portugal golden visa

00:53:01.000 | and now I'm an EU resident.

00:53:02.440 | I got it after about a year, I invested like 350,000 in a Renaissance Marriott

00:53:08.200 | hotel in Porto, and it qualified me for their investment visa.

00:53:11.800 | I have a whole blog post about it.

00:53:14.040 | And a ton of TPG readers have since done it as well.

00:53:16.760 | But after five years, I have to spend one week a year in Portugal.

00:53:19.840 | And after five years, I can apply, take a proficiency test in the language, which I

00:53:24.360 | actually took Portuguese in college.

00:53:25.840 | And you become a full citizen and passport holder, which I think is kind of cool.

00:53:30.040 | Who knows where the world's going?

00:53:31.400 | Portugal is the third safest country in the world and pretty affordable to live.

00:53:36.120 | So who knows, maybe in retirement, I'll end up in Portugal.

00:53:38.920 | And great weather, awesome weather, amazing food, centrally

00:53:43.800 | located to get around places.

00:53:45.640 | So that's been a fun, fun little journey for me.

00:53:48.360 | That's great.

00:53:49.440 | Awesome.

00:53:50.200 | Well, this has been so helpful before we go, anything coming down the road for

00:53:54.560 | TPG or anywhere you want people to check out?

00:53:57.960 | Yeah, I mean, just if you have an Apple phone, check out the Point Sky app.

00:54:02.160 | You know, today it was a beast to get this app out.

00:54:04.840 | We tracked most major airline, hotel programs, credit cards.

00:54:08.480 | We're going to be rolling out a bunch of new features to make it run smoother.

00:54:11.840 | Also allowing multiple tracking of accounts.

00:54:13.960 | So if you manage your spouses or kids' accounts, you'll be able to have that.

00:54:18.400 | But I think long-term we're going to be adding more and more tools.

00:54:22.040 | I want the TPG app to be able to reverse engineer a trip.

00:54:25.920 | So if you say, I want to take my wife and two kids this week of March,

00:54:31.200 | somewhere warm in the Caribbean, and I've got Hyatt and Amex points,

00:54:34.960 | how do I go there from Austin?

00:54:36.880 | And we can reverse engineer and say, Hey, these are the flights.

00:54:39.840 | What about this place in Mexico?

00:54:41.800 | You might not have thought about, or Turks and Caicos, because the

00:54:44.680 | points and miles world is tough and it's constantly changing.

00:54:47.200 | So we want to build tools that actually help you maximize and travel more.

00:54:51.680 | At the end of the day, we want people traveling more, experiencing the world.

00:54:55.520 | And I'm excited for that.

00:54:56.600 | Hey everybody.

00:54:58.000 | I just want to interrupt because I've partnered with Point.me, my favorite

00:55:01.560 | award search tool, to give you a special offer of only $1 for your

00:55:05.720 | first month of their standard plan.

00:55:07.440 | If you go to allthehacks.com/pointme and use the promo code HACKS.

00:55:13.400 | Again, allthehacks.com/P-O-I-N-T-M-E, or find the link in the show notes.

00:55:20.880 | So definitely take advantage of that if you're planning a trip with points.

00:55:25.440 | I know that all of these award wallet and other companies have had struggled

00:55:30.120 | to be able to collect this information because they have bad relationships

00:55:33.120 | with airlines, have you guys actually built all those relationships directly

00:55:36.560 | so that you're not going to get shut down trying to find award

00:55:40.480 | availability or sync balances?

00:55:42.000 | Yeah, we've created our own platform.

00:55:44.440 | I think the difference between us and award wallet and smaller startups is

00:55:49.160 | that they don't have as many resources.

00:55:52.200 | The points guy, we're part of Red Ventures, which is a private,

00:55:55.520 | but a multi-billion dollar.

00:55:57.160 | You know, we've got top tier security, we've got a huge tech team.

00:56:00.560 | So we work with all the airlines and hotels in different capacities.

00:56:05.320 | And I just firmly believe the consumer, just like you do with your banking

00:56:10.040 | information, you should be able to look at your loyalty information in one

00:56:13.200 | place and use tools that help you get the most value.

00:56:15.720 | That's our fundamental belief at the points guy.

00:56:18.280 | We want to work with every airline.

00:56:20.920 | We'd love to add even more functionality into it.

00:56:23.760 | And we've had really good conversations.

00:56:25.600 | So, you know, stay tuned.

00:56:28.480 | But I think a lot of good things are coming in that space.

00:56:30.960 | That's fantastic.

00:56:32.400 | I have it up.

00:56:33.360 | I've got my points net worth, which is pretty cool number to track.

00:56:36.160 | And I can't wait to be able to add everything for my wife's

00:56:39.160 | accounts all in one place.

00:56:40.440 | Last thing, where can people find you online other than the points guy.com?

00:56:44.280 | Yeah.

00:56:44.920 | So I'm at Brian Kelly on Instagram.

00:56:47.480 | That's where I share almost all of my travels.

00:56:49.280 | Even the trips I talked about today, whether it's Rwanda or Antigua, I

00:56:53.200 | pin them all on my Instagram stories.

00:56:54.880 | You can actually see, I'll always tag the tour guides that I use,

00:56:57.960 | restaurants that I go to.

00:56:59.000 | I know it's a little bit of a wonky format.

00:57:00.880 | One day we'll have that into a premium version of the site where you can even

00:57:05.240 | do TPG itineraries and restaurant recs, et cetera, but yeah, follow me on Insta.

00:57:10.680 | Awesome.

00:57:11.720 | Thank you so much for being here.

00:57:13.000 | Thanks, Chris.

00:57:14.280 | Safe travels.

00:57:17.120 | I love a good points and miles conversation and this one was fantastic.

00:57:21.000 | So I hope you all enjoyed it too.

00:57:22.560 | I'll make sure to put links to everything we discussed in the show notes and to

00:57:26.240 | everyone who's been writing in the past few weeks and really since the beginning.

00:57:29.640 | Thank you so much.

00:57:31.080 | I'm reading every email and I promise if I haven't gotten back to you, I

00:57:34.560 | will, as soon as I can get caught up.

00:57:36.360 | In the meantime, keep those emails coming.

00:57:39.000 | We'll have another Q and A episode soon.

00:57:41.040 | And until then, I'm Chris@allthehacks.com.

00:57:44.120 | And if you want to help out the show, please leave us a five-star

00:57:46.640 | rating and review.

00:57:47.600 | Thank you so much for all your support.

00:57:49.520 | See you guys next week.

00:57:50.640 | I want to tell you about another podcast I love that goes deep on all things money.

00:58:10.520 | That means everything from money hacks to wealth building to early retirement.

00:58:14.640 | It's called the Personal Finance Podcast, and it's much more about building

00:58:18.480 | generational wealth and spending your money on the things you value than it is

00:58:22.360 | about clipping coupons to save a dollar.

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00:58:37.680 | But recently I listened to an episode where Andrew shared 16 money stats that

00:58:42.400 | will blow your mind, and it was so crazy to learn things like 35% of millennials

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