ATHLLC1759416004

00:00:00.000 | Hey everyone. In this episode, we discuss the crypto platform BlockFi,

00:00:04.320 | and since recording it, a lot has happened in the news. As of today, November 15th,

00:00:09.440 | 2022, BlockFi is no longer allowing customers to withdraw their own crypto,

00:00:14.320 | so all users, myself included, are stuck in a very frustrating situation. Needless to say,

00:00:20.160 | I'm not happy with the company, and any recommendation you might hear for them in

00:00:23.840 | this episode should be ignored and considered outdated. Okay, on to the episode. A quick word

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00:00:56.720 | I'm a member of Longangle, I've loved being a part of the community, and I've even had one

00:01:01.040 | of the founders, Tad Fallows, join me on all the hacks in episode 87 to talk about alternative

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00:01:26.400 | much value from the community because you're getting advice and feedback from people in a

00:01:30.480 | similar situation to you on everything from your investment portfolio, to your children's education,

00:01:35.920 | to finding a concierge doctor. So many of these conversations aren't happening anywhere else

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00:02:03.120 | Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks, a show about upgrading your life,

00:02:11.920 | money, travel, all while spending less and saving more. I'm your host, Chris Hutchins,

00:02:16.320 | and I'm excited to have you on my journey. And today we're joined by my former co-founder

00:02:20.800 | and longtime friend, Kevin Rose. Kevin's a partner at True Ventures,

00:02:24.640 | a venture capital firm that invests in early-stage tech startups, and the host of two podcasts,

00:02:29.760 | Modern Finance, which focuses on crypto, DeFi, and traditional finance,

00:02:33.760 | and Proof, which is all about NFTs. Previously, he founded the social news site Digg,

00:02:39.280 | the intermittent fasting app Zero, and the meditation app Oak. He's also one of the most

00:02:43.760 | successful angel investors I know. He was early in companies like Twitter, Facebook, and Square.

00:02:49.200 | And while he might be known for being an entrepreneur, an investor, a crypto NFT expert,

00:02:54.720 | amongst his friends, he's also known for how deep he's gone on health and fitness and mindfulness.

00:02:59.600 | So in this episode, we'll dive into all those things, all the hacks he's learned. We'll talk

00:03:04.400 | about his investment philosophy, what led him to be so successful, and we'll dive into crypto,

00:03:09.360 | including answering some of the questions you guys have sent in.

00:03:12.000 | So I know this will be a fantastic conversation. So let's jump in.

00:03:17.600 | Kevin, thank you for being here.

00:03:19.600 | Dude, it's good to be on. I'm so glad that after probably what we were talking about,

00:03:24.000 | you starting a podcast for maybe a year or so, and then you did it. And now, boom,

00:03:28.800 | you exploded because I knew how much great content you would bring to your audience. So I just love

00:03:33.360 | it. The most famous hack I would say that you pulled off on me is you were always my go-to

00:03:38.560 | person for getting the most out of travel points. And the one that you pulled off for me and Daria

00:03:44.480 | was a flight to Tokyo, all with points, first class, and it was on Singapore Air.

00:03:51.200 | And that is the airline where if you fly first class, they combine the two

00:03:55.040 | seats together, close off the wall, get rid of the center divider, and you literally have

00:04:00.560 | a queen size bed. And they put rose petals on the bed. It's ridiculous. And then they close the door

00:04:07.200 | so you have privacy and you're flying in the air to Tokyo with a private room. It is insane. And

00:04:14.080 | it was free. So thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah. I'm jealous because that's one of the few

00:04:18.480 | things I've never experienced and I've helped you do it. I've helped other people do it. So

00:04:22.640 | that is on the list when the world opens back up for me.

00:04:25.520 | Oh, 100%. You got to do that one.

00:04:27.440 | Yeah. So we've got a lot of ground to cover. So I'm going to jump in. We're about to kick

00:04:31.360 | off a new year. Everybody listening is probably thinking, "How do I live a healthier life,

00:04:35.200 | a happier..." And you've gone so deep on all of these fitness and life and mindfulness and

00:04:40.640 | health hacks. I'd love to know, before we jump into specific ones, what do you think's driven

00:04:45.600 | your interest to experiment and learn so much here? Yeah, it's a good question. I think that

00:04:51.600 | I was always at a young age interested in just what I could do, like you, but more on the health

00:04:59.440 | side, what I could do to improve my health. And so I started listening to and reading, actually,

00:05:03.760 | Dr. Andrew Wiles' printed, mailed journal that would be sent to my mother, of all things. And

00:05:09.840 | that got me into the world of "alternative medicine," but more with an eye towards real

00:05:15.760 | science backing it up. And so for me, it's always been about... My wife's a scientist.

00:05:21.440 | She has her PhD from UCSF, and she can help me read through all the crazy published literature

00:05:28.640 | and understand it at a level that I cannot. But for me, it's always been just understanding that

00:05:34.560 | the stuff that your doctors are telling you, like your primary care physician, is often 10 years out

00:05:39.920 | of date or longer. And it's not their fault, it's just that they're not up to speed on all the

00:05:45.040 | latest and greatest things. So I always wanted to get directly to the source of what are the

00:05:49.760 | scientists finding out, what are they talking about, what has been published in credible journals

00:05:54.720 | that is placebo-controlled, peer-reviewed, the gold standard for science, not just any random

00:06:01.520 | published paper on a half-dozen mice, but real data. And then what can we learn from it, and

00:06:06.880 | what's actionable that we can do today that will probably... Our doctors will be telling us to do

00:06:11.440 | 10 years from now. So it's more about just being on the forefront and the bleeding edge of that

00:06:15.840 | stuff and trying it out and seeing what impact it has on my life. And some things work and some

00:06:20.800 | things I discard, but it's something I've always just had a passion for.

00:06:23.840 | - And how do you stay on top of all of this?

00:06:27.120 | - Well, I would say there's a couple things. I'm not a doctor,

00:06:30.480 | and so I can't be giving medical advice, but I will tell you what I do is I work with the

00:06:36.240 | best physicians and scientists in the world. And so something that people won't tell you,

00:06:42.320 | there's a saying that kind of the technology is already here, it's just not widely distributed,

00:06:48.160 | meaning that the next big thing, you'll just hear about it a ways out. And so,

00:06:53.360 | like I mentioned earlier, I try to put myself as close to that source of information as possible.

00:06:57.360 | So to do that, there's a couple scientists that I pay pretty close attention to and a physician,

00:07:03.040 | Dr. Peter Tia is one of them. He is a concierge doctor, a longevity doctor at the insanely high

00:07:09.520 | end, meaning that his clientele are very high net worth individuals that for him,

00:07:14.880 | it's trying to extend healthspan for his clients. The secret that he has is that he has a dozen or

00:07:21.760 | so scientists and analysts that work with him to pour through all the research as it's coming in.

00:07:27.680 | And Rhonda Patrick, another scientist, PhD, she's got a great podcast as well. So there's a Tia,

00:07:33.440 | those are the two kind of go-tos because I know they're actually looking and reviewing all the

00:07:37.280 | science. So a lot of the things that you hear me mention today are distillations of their findings.

00:07:42.880 | So I would say that's what I use as a source of credible information. And then from there,

00:07:49.200 | it's trying out the different things that are the recommendations. And it's what's crazy is,

00:07:54.800 | and this is, I hesitate to say some of this stuff, but if you were to join a private practice like

00:07:58.960 | this, this is something a lot of people will never tell you, is if you are a fortune 100 CEO and you

00:08:06.160 | have a high end concierge doctor that is working with scientists to give you the latest and greatest

00:08:11.120 | tech and extend your life, you're probably going to be paying that physician, I would say around

00:08:17.280 | a hundred, maybe a little bit, 150,000 a year, somewhere around there, just to be a client of

00:08:22.400 | theirs. And that's per year. And a lot of these physicians are so popular, their practices are

00:08:28.640 | booked out and you can't, even if you had that kind of money, you couldn't get a seat at the

00:08:32.320 | table. So one of the things I love about Rhonda and the Tia is they both offer this information.

00:08:38.080 | Even though a Tia does have clientele like that and has a practice that has a waiting list,

00:08:43.200 | he offers all the information out to individuals that subscribe to his podcast. And so the

00:08:48.080 | information is out there and you can get it, you just have to know where to look. And so that's

00:08:51.920 | been what I focus on, is just taking that information and turn it into actual things that I

00:08:56.080 | try. Yeah, I love it. So we'll put links to both those podcasts in the show notes. So how do these

00:09:01.200 | concierge doctors work and what are regular doctors actually missing? So I'll give you an

00:09:06.160 | insider kind of look at what these practices look like. The first thing that they do is they have

00:09:10.400 | you come in and you sit down. And it's so crazy because when, you know, growing up, when we went

00:09:16.080 | to a primary care physician, it was often like, "Okay, what are you here for? Oh, you got a cold.

00:09:20.640 | Okay, I'll see you for five minutes. Okay, see you, peace out." Like on to the next patient,

00:09:24.160 | you're one of a thousand on their books. And so you never really get to spend any time with your

00:09:27.840 | actual physician. So his whole intake process is like a multi-day thing. And you start off by going

00:09:34.480 | through a lot of family history because the most important thing you can get at is what are my risk

00:09:38.640 | factors? Because everyone is different, right? We all have our own unique DNA. And that DNA has

00:09:44.560 | different what they call these things like genetic polymorphisms, which are different factors that

00:09:50.480 | we can look at our genes and have our genes analyzed. And that's something we can talk about

00:09:53.760 | to look at the different risk factors that are in our genes. But we'll do this whole intake. And for

00:09:58.000 | me, it was a cardiovascular disease. My father died of a heart attack. My grandfather died of

00:10:02.800 | a heart attack. Lots of risk there. I have some cancer risk a bit and that my mom has bladder

00:10:08.080 | cancer. So some risk there. And so once we figure out what those risk factors are, then we go deep

00:10:14.000 | into that blood work. And so it's going in, taking a look at the blood work, knowing what to look for

00:10:20.000 | and so many times like the information that your primary care physician is going to give you is

00:10:24.320 | out of date. So for example, if you go into your doctor today, the number one thing they'll tell

00:10:29.440 | you when looking for your cholesterol numbers is triglycerides, HDL and LDL. Primarily, that's

00:10:34.960 | going to be your standard physician. The latest thinking there is yes, those numbers do matter.

00:10:39.520 | But there's a blood test called APOB, which Atiyah does on all of his clients, that and he

00:10:45.680 | has multiple podcasts that address this with the scientists that are studying it. That is the most

00:10:49.760 | important predictor of heart disease. And so you with most physicians, you have to ask for that.

00:10:55.600 | And they go, why do you want to know that? Like, yeah, I can order it for you, but why? And they

00:10:59.200 | just haven't read the latest science. So it's a matter of getting that particular number down.

00:11:04.560 | So I have a buddy who is taking the highest statin out there is so proud and looks and says, Hey,

00:11:10.640 | look at my LDL, my HDL, like my triglycerides, I'm all good. And then went in for a calcium

00:11:15.520 | heart scan, which is the other thing that you can do, which is a very important thing to get done

00:11:19.360 | to look for calcification of the arteries. And it's this non-invasive heart scan that you can

00:11:23.120 | have done and had a bunch of calcification, which means that there's going to be a problem. Like

00:11:28.000 | that's a early predictor of heart disease. And he's like, why I don't get it. And then checked

00:11:32.960 | his APOB number. And it was like five times what it should have been. I was like, oh crap,

00:11:37.520 | like this isn't working. I need to do other dietary interventions or even the new classes

00:11:42.880 | of drugs. Like I'll give you another example. So many people, so many doctors will prescribe you

00:11:47.600 | statins, right? That's the standard treatment. But there are these things called PKS-9 inhibitors

00:11:52.320 | that are a better class of drugs that are better than statins for many people. And obviously talk

00:11:57.920 | to your physician, you wouldn't be able to even get this unless you talk to your physician, but

00:12:01.200 | it is a, it's a shot that I take every two weeks and it just hammers down my APOB number and puts

00:12:07.280 | me into a good place. So, you know, I'm in my forties. I've got a couple of kids. I need to

00:12:10.000 | take this stuff really seriously. So that's just a great example of one of the many things that

00:12:15.120 | a standard physician wouldn't tell you. And it's something you should demand of your physician is

00:12:19.280 | that they are paying attention to the latest science. - And if they're not, what do you think

00:12:24.400 | of the different tests you can run with WellnessFX? You could do like an advanced heart health blood

00:12:30.480 | panel. What do you think about going to companies like that? - Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've done

00:12:34.960 | that before I had one of these concierge doctors. I basically would listen to things like these

00:12:40.960 | podcasts from people I trusted and then go and do it on my own. So if your doctor won't do that,

00:12:46.560 | you can use a service like that. I've used that service. You can also just go on Life Extension

00:12:51.120 | and order labs directly from them that will pick up APOB as well. But honestly, even if you get

00:12:57.040 | these numbers back and you're listening to the podcast and you're comparing them and you're like,

00:13:01.120 | "Oh, I'm out of range." What are you going to do? Like how are you going to address this? You have

00:13:05.200 | to find a physician that believes in the latest science. And that is, and so that's going to take

00:13:10.160 | a little bit of calling around and talking to physicians and making sure you find someone

00:13:14.320 | that's following this. - Nice. Okay. So that's heart health. What about one that I know we've

00:13:19.520 | talked a lot about? And I know we went through a five-day fast together where it was water only,

00:13:24.560 | but I wouldn't say I've kept up as much. What's the latest on fasting? Is that something you're

00:13:28.480 | still practicing? - Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's a few things to mention. One, we know

00:13:34.320 | that fasting can create something called autophagy, which means those weaker precancerous cells,

00:13:39.120 | the ones that could potentially go rogue when they are deprived of nutrients for extended periods of

00:13:43.600 | time, they self-destruct, which is a good thing. That's what you want. You want these cells to die

00:13:48.640 | off. Short periods of fasting can be great for that. That's why I created the app Zero. My friend

00:13:55.200 | Mike Mazur, who took the app over, he actually was battling cancer at the time, and there was

00:14:01.200 | some great research out of UC San Diego with Satchin Panda and one other physician. I'm drawing

00:14:06.800 | a blank right now, but out of essentially showing that when you take and incorporate fasting as part

00:14:13.920 | of your chemotherapy, it can even be more effective at killing off either of these cancer cells or the

00:14:17.600 | precancerous cells. So he was implementing, and obviously, if you have cancer, you have to talk

00:14:22.480 | to your physician about this, but he was implementing a fasting regimen in with his

00:14:27.360 | chemotherapy treatment, had a fantastic outcome. And then it was just clear to me that the other

00:14:32.560 | big thing that is just a no-brainer is anytime anyone is obese, it is linked to a whole slew

00:14:39.040 | of bad things, right? Whether it be heart disease or diabetes, or there's actually, I think it's a

00:14:44.000 | dozen or so, 12 or 13 different cancers that are linked with obesity. So just getting your body

00:14:49.600 | composition down and your visceral fat down into a place where it should be, fasting can be yet

00:14:55.440 | another tool for that toolkit in that it's just something to add, whether you decide to do

00:15:00.240 | intermittent fasting a few times a week, or do extended duration fasts once a quarter or every

00:15:06.800 | other month or something like that. So it's certainly something that I want to make sure I

00:15:11.200 | get at least a few days in per month of. I do the longer duration. Some people just do 16 hours a

00:15:16.160 | day or 18 hours a day. I'm more of a fan of just doing a couple of days of longer duration. It's

00:15:22.400 | things called like a monk fast, like a 36-hour fast, things like that. And Xero supports all

00:15:27.440 | of that. And there's a lot more data in there. It's also just, it is one of those things that

00:15:31.840 | you feel afterwards, you just feel like you've given your body and your gut some time to just

00:15:37.280 | take a break and kind of repair and heal and have some downtime there, which is also really nice,

00:15:42.240 | especially after the holidays, man. I'm definitely going to go back on the fasting train.

00:15:45.920 | Oh, man. Definitely. So one other one I'll mention, and then I'll let you add any. We're

00:15:50.320 | both fans of sauna. I've been trying to figure out where in my house/driveway or somewhere I

00:15:56.480 | can put one. I know it's something really important to you. What kind of drove you to

00:16:00.080 | be so fascinated with sauna therapy in general? Yeah, it's honestly, it's just the studies that

00:16:07.120 | were being published. A lot of them are coming out of Finland and just a lot of the data that

00:16:11.440 | we were seeing. When you look at the studies, it is just, there's something that happens when

00:16:16.480 | essentially what it is, and I'm doing this off the top of my head, but I'm 95% sure it's accurate.

00:16:22.080 | It's 174 degrees Fahrenheit for 20 minutes. That is like the heat and the duration that you need to

00:16:29.360 | activate something in your body called heat shock proteins. And when these proteins are activated,

00:16:34.240 | they do all types of beneficial things in the body. And so out of these studies that came out

00:16:40.320 | of Finland and there's since been a few others, some of the effects were just insanely positive.

00:16:47.360 | I'll give you an example. So men who saunaed two to three times per week were 27% less likely

00:16:55.520 | to die from cardiovascular related causes than men who didn't use the sauna.

00:16:59.280 | And there was other benefits around, well, here I'll read the rest of it. Furthermore,

00:17:05.760 | the benefits they experienced were found to be dose dependent. Men who used the sauna roughly

00:17:10.800 | twice as often, about four to seven times per week, experienced roughly twice the benefit

00:17:16.560 | and were 50% less likely to die from cardiovascular related causes. In addition,

00:17:21.360 | frequent sauna users were found to be 40% less likely to die from all causes of premature death.

00:17:27.040 | So all cause mortality. This even held true when they considered age, activity levels,

00:17:32.080 | and other lifestyle factors that may have influenced the men's health. So what they

00:17:36.160 | mean by that is they controlled for external factors. And this is really important because

00:17:41.520 | in some sense, you could say, if you're going to the sauna, you're probably already a healthy

00:17:44.400 | person. So of course they didn't die of cardiovascular disease, but they controlled

00:17:49.040 | for that as well. So people that had poor diets were included and they figure out how to compensate

00:17:54.320 | for that on the stats side. So the other really interesting fact is that men who use the sauna

00:17:59.840 | four to seven times per week had a 66% lower risk in developing dementia and a 65% lower risk in

00:18:06.800 | developing Alzheimer's disease compared to men that use the sauna only once per week.

00:18:11.280 | So it's just some really interesting data around sauna usage. And it is a very pleasurable activity.

00:18:18.800 | We're not talking about running marathons here. Like you literally just go in, sit down,

00:18:23.280 | and enjoy the sauna and sweat it out for 20 minutes. So it will take some ramping up to.

00:18:28.400 | 174 is, it took me probably a month to be able to just walk out there feeling good versus feeling

00:18:34.640 | like I was like heat exhausted, you know, in some sense. Obviously you have to hydrate a ton,

00:18:39.200 | but yeah, that's something where, you know, you can pick up a sauna. I like the traditional saunas.

00:18:45.760 | I don't do the infrared ones, but it's a couple thousand dollar investment to get these standalone

00:18:50.160 | units, the very small ones that fit one or two people. And I would say, you know, what an

00:18:55.520 | investment in your health and your future. So it's certainly something that I think has a lot of

00:19:00.480 | strong data behind it and is also something that's relaxing and fun to do with your significant other.

00:19:06.240 | - Any other things you've experimented with or you've heard about that are worth sharing on the

00:19:11.520 | kind of health mindfulness kind of side of things? - Yeah, there's a ton of little tiny hacks that I

00:19:18.160 | think would be good for just a little rapid fire ones. Like for example, lithium, the mineral,

00:19:24.000 | they've shown, they did this study where they found that when lithium is present in drinking

00:19:29.040 | water, and this is like, they looked all across the United States and they found when it's

00:19:33.520 | naturally at a little bit higher levels, like microdose levels, that there was less depression,

00:19:38.480 | less suicides. It was just like this mineral that we typically don't get a lot of, and we don't need

00:19:45.520 | a lot of it. We actually just to microdose it will improve mental states and potentially protect

00:19:50.560 | against Alzheimer's disease as well. There's been some early data on that. So for me, I was like,

00:19:54.960 | okay, I don't have any lithium out here where I live here in Portland. I did the analysis of my

00:19:59.120 | local water and it was next to nothing. So how can you get this as a microdose? And I did some

00:20:06.080 | research and I found this sparkling water that actually has a little bit higher than the microdose

00:20:11.840 | levels that are found in drinking water that I actually love. It's this German sparkling water.

00:20:16.640 | It's called, I'm going to butcher this one, Gerolsteiner. Okay, so Gerolsteiner sparkling

00:20:21.760 | water, they have it on Amazon and it's not cheap, but it will get you that kind of microdose of

00:20:27.680 | lithium. There have since been microdose of kind of lithium pills and things that you can try as

00:20:32.480 | well. But yeah, we can link to some of that data. I thought that was interesting. Another really fun

00:20:37.920 | one is chocolate. So chocolate we all know has this tasty treat, but in its purest form, meaning

00:20:45.600 | just like pulverized ground up chocolate, there has been just a ton of papers around the health

00:20:52.880 | benefits of chocolate, both in terms of vascular health and improving the flexibility of arteries

00:20:59.440 | and helping the heart and brain. And Cocovia is a brand, and I have no affiliation with any of

00:21:04.480 | the stuff we're mentioning today. Cocovia is a brand that actually is sponsored or created by

00:21:10.480 | the Mars company. So the Mars chocolate company actually poured a ton of money into this research,

00:21:14.480 | which one could argue it would be, you always worry who's backing the research. If it's a

00:21:20.160 | chocolate company, it's in their best interest to back this research. But everyone that's read

00:21:23.360 | the studies that I've looked at has said it's actually really solid data and they've just been

00:21:26.800 | a financial backer and didn't have any kind of vested interest in positive results here.

00:21:31.280 | But they put out pills specifically for supplement for heart health and brain health that I've tried

00:21:37.120 | that I think are fantastic. You get a little hit of about 20 milligrams of naturally occurring

00:21:41.440 | caffeine. And so I'll take a couple of these little chocolate pills with my coffee in the

00:21:46.320 | morning, my plain coffee. And it's just, it's insane the quick mental boost I get. So they say

00:21:53.840 | it starts improving blood flow within two hours. And it just, I notice it, which is crazy. There's

00:21:59.680 | not many supplements I take immediately notice it. You take your multivitamin, your fish oils,

00:22:04.720 | your vitamin D or whatever, and you don't notice anything. But this is one where it's definitely

00:22:09.440 | worth picking up a bottle and check out the website, Cocovia. They link to a bunch of the

00:22:14.480 | different studies, published papers and 30 plus clinical studies with some of the leading research

00:22:20.000 | institutions they used. It's really interesting stuff.

00:22:23.200 | - Yeah. You just mentioned vitamins. If you found out someone like me was not

00:22:27.120 | taking a multivitamin regularly, is your reaction, what are you doing? That's crazy?

00:22:30.480 | - It depends on your diet. If you're eating a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables and that's

00:22:34.880 | part of your kind of regimen, then it's not crazy. But I would say that historically,

00:22:39.760 | they've noticed that because of the kind of minerals in the earth going by the wayside,

00:22:45.520 | they're being less and they're being more, even organic farming can oftentimes produce less

00:22:51.040 | nutrients in their vegetables than even say a couple of decades ago, just because the erosion

00:22:55.600 | of nutrients in the soil, then yeah, you're not quite getting the same nutrient load that you

00:23:00.960 | were. So I don't know. I use it as an insurance policy. I don't think of it as a main primary

00:23:05.520 | source, but there's so many good brands at your local fancy grocery store that has all the...

00:23:11.280 | You want to pick something that isn't just your cheapest option, but really look into

00:23:17.440 | their farming practices and where they source their ingredients. I go for multivitamins that

00:23:21.840 | are derived from food versus that are made in the lab. So they don't say 100% food-based

00:23:27.360 | multivitamin and that's kind of my go-to. - Nice. Anything else in the rapid fire?

00:23:32.560 | - I mean, something on the, I would say on the early side that is probably worth paying

00:23:37.600 | attention to, there is a compound out there that's a prescription called Ozempic. And again,

00:23:43.440 | I listened to Tia's podcast on that one, but it is for glucose regulation. And one of the things

00:23:49.920 | that we noticed, and I encourage people to do this as well with their primary physician, is do

00:23:55.040 | something called a glucose tolerance test, where you essentially go in, they check your glucose,

00:24:00.800 | and then put through it via a blood draw. And then they make you drink a 100% pure sugar

00:24:07.040 | glucose, oral glucose drink. And then they measure your glucose in 30-minute intervals

00:24:13.040 | over the course of a couple hours. And they're also looking at your insulin levels as well.

00:24:17.040 | And so you're looking for how high do you spike with a full drink like that on an empty stomach?

00:24:22.800 | And then also how quickly and how sensitized are your muscles and how quickly are they

00:24:28.080 | uptaking the glucose and how much insulin is being issued to combat the glucose. So you can see

00:24:33.280 | how good are you at glucose disposal as well. And so for me, this is where I had an issue.

00:24:38.720 | And so Tia was first identified and said, "Hey, you're not pre-diabetic, but we don't like how

00:24:45.520 | long the glucose is sticking around in your system. You're elevated way too long. You should

00:24:49.600 | be about half that or less. So we can treat this a couple of different ways. And we need to get

00:24:55.200 | under control because any amount of elevated sugar in the bloodstream is just not good for

00:24:59.840 | inflammation and a whole slew of other different things. And eventually it does lead to pre-diabetes

00:25:03.680 | and diabetes. The ways you can do that are two primarily ways, one pharmacologically or two,

00:25:09.600 | sensitize the muscles more. And so that can be through weightlifting or zone two cardio.

00:25:15.040 | On the actual medication side, the Azempic drug is just amazing. It's a subcutaneous shot that

00:25:21.680 | you take every couple of weeks and it really gets your glucose under control. And one big side

00:25:27.200 | effect is you actually lose weight while doing it as well. So I've had some friends that have

00:25:31.120 | been on it for a series of months and they've dropped 10, 15, 20 pounds just by taking this

00:25:36.160 | drug. The downside is that it's really expensive because it is so new. And if you can get it covered

00:25:41.920 | by your insurance, if you're a type two diabetic, then that's the way to go. If you don't have

00:25:47.520 | diabetes, which I don't, they won't cover it for your insurance. And so the best bet I found is

00:25:52.960 | going to that good RX site, getting one of those printable coupons. I don't know if you've seen

00:25:57.120 | those coupons sites that you can use for getting prescriptions that you can take into your pharmacy

00:26:01.200 | and those give you, I think, a hundred dollars off or something like that. And then Costco has

00:26:05.440 | the cheapest prices for Azempic, but it's still going to run you a little over 20 grand a year,

00:26:10.240 | somewhere around there. So it is not cheap, but for those of you that have true glucose issues

00:26:16.320 | like myself, and if it's within your budget, it's an option. But I will tell you, it's something to

00:26:21.840 | keep on your radar because just the PKS9 inhibitors I'm talking about, rather than statins that I was

00:26:27.120 | talking about earlier, that shot, it's another one that's not cheap. Your insurance may cover it,

00:26:31.680 | but if they don't, it's something where two, three, you check in every couple of years because

00:26:37.520 | as these things become wider and wider adopted, they can produce more, manufacturing processes

00:26:42.800 | improve, the price of these drugs can plummet. And when they do go down and you want to be able,

00:26:48.080 | and they are within striking distance of being able to afford them, then you want to jump on

00:26:52.240 | them right away. Yeah. And ask your insurance company. I was picking up something at the

00:26:57.520 | pharmacy the other day and the pharmacist said, "Oh, this is probably not going to be covered by

00:27:01.680 | your insurance." And I don't have anything fancy. I just have a standard employer insurance policy.

00:27:06.080 | And they were like, "Oh, actually, most people don't cover this and yours does." So you might

00:27:10.880 | have luck sometimes with things just finding out if your insurance covers them because I just found

00:27:16.320 | out this random thing was. Fortunately, it was only $20. So it didn't... My copay was about exactly

00:27:20.720 | the same as the thing I was picking up. So it didn't matter much, but... Have you used GoodRx

00:27:25.440 | before? I haven't used GoodRx. We've used Alto Pharmacy as a pharmacy that delivers to your house

00:27:31.440 | for the same price as prescriptions. Basically, by not having a storefront, they can include

00:27:36.320 | the delivery. And I love that, but I haven't used GoodRx. Yeah. GoodRx is great. You can just go in

00:27:40.240 | there, type in a drug name, it'll find you the lowest price for it. It oftentimes just gives you

00:27:44.240 | a coupon and you can just print it out and literally just take it down to Costco or Walmart

00:27:49.440 | or CVS or whatever and they'll honor it and give you a better price. That's awesome.

00:27:54.720 | The only other thing I would add is these stress gummies that my wife loves. They're really cool.

00:28:01.200 | They're called Pym, P-Y-M. And you can pick these up on Amazon and you can obviously link them up

00:28:06.320 | in your show notes. They were created by a friend of ours, Zach Williams. And after his father passed

00:28:12.240 | away, he just wanted to focus on mental health and mood. And it's been something that he'd be

00:28:20.000 | the first to admit has just been something that he's struggled with and wants to help other people

00:28:24.320 | with as well. And he came up with a really awesome formulation of just very simple ingredients.

00:28:31.040 | It's just GABA, L-theanine, and rhodiola. It's three just ingredients. They're these little

00:28:36.640 | chews. And my wife swears by them. She chews a couple when we're putting the kids down for bed

00:28:42.080 | at night. And she's like, "I don't even want to have a glass of wine after I have it." She's like,

00:28:45.840 | "It just helps me chill out." And they're not that expensive and you can get them on Amazon.

00:28:50.320 | And Zach is really an awesome human. And I highly recommend them. And then also,

00:28:55.600 | the cool thing is if they do work for you, because it's only three ingredients,

00:28:59.920 | there's so many times you buy these things that are like, "Mood this or that." And it's like,

00:29:03.760 | "Proprietary formulation," it says on the back. And then it's 20 different ingredients. You're

00:29:07.760 | like, "Okay, how do I know which ingredient actually helped me here?" Because then maybe

00:29:11.280 | it's just the L-theanine you need, or maybe it's just the GABA you need, or you just don't know.

00:29:14.560 | So with these three ingredients, you can then go off and buy individual components of it if

00:29:18.960 | you want to try different pieces and see how it makes you feel. But these are just really fun for

00:29:23.840 | when you feel just a little overwhelmed, a little anxiety, a little stress, and just pop a couple

00:29:27.360 | of these and they're my go-to for that type of stuff. That's awesome. Yeah. The only other one

00:29:33.040 | I want to share was something you shared with me, was that I'd done my 23andMe test. And I was

00:29:39.200 | telling you like, "I checked. There's not that much data." And you were like, "Were you looking

00:29:43.200 | at it on 23andMe?" And I was like, "Yeah, of course." And you were like, "You can't do that.

00:29:46.560 | You got to download your 23andMe data and go look at it somewhere else." So I can't remember the

00:29:51.360 | exact process. Maybe you still remember it. But that was a total unlock, totally free if you've

00:29:55.840 | ever done 23andMe. Yeah, that's the whole thing. So the thing with 23andMe is, obviously, great

00:30:02.240 | place. You spit in a tube, you send it in $100, you get your whole genetic history. It's great

00:30:06.640 | at giving you maps of where you came from, where your ancestors came from, who your cousins are,

00:30:11.280 | things like that. But they are really a little bit gun-shy on giving you, as they should be,

00:30:18.800 | health advice around this type of stuff. The interesting thing about having your access to

00:30:24.240 | your genes is what they're showing you in your actual data are these little things, these little,

00:30:30.880 | they call them SNPs, which they're single nucleotide polymorphisms, where everyone

00:30:36.800 | has different SNPs, that is different genetic modifications or gene expressions that are unique

00:30:43.280 | to us. And sometimes you can look at that data, if you analyze it properly, and you can figure

00:30:51.280 | out what's going on and address certain health issues. So I'll give you an example. There's a

00:30:55.120 | very common genetic polymorphism called MTHFR. And if you have one or two of those SNPs, then

00:31:04.480 | you're probably going to be a pretty bad absorber of B vitamins. And if you're a bad absorber of B

00:31:09.680 | vitamins, there's probably going to be elevated homocysteine in your blood work. And that just

00:31:14.720 | is bad. It hasn't been shown. It's been shown as being correlated with heart disease in certain

00:31:21.760 | cancers, but not causal, if that makes sense. So it's there when they're there, but they can't

00:31:26.720 | prove. It might just be that it's apparent, but it's not actually causing the heart disease,

00:31:31.840 | if that makes sense. It just rides along with it. Something else is going on or is wrong.

00:31:35.440 | But if you know that, you can take certain types of methylated B vitamins or higher-dose B vitamins

00:31:41.680 | and then beat down and reduce your homocysteine levels. So this is one example of a bunch of

00:31:48.720 | different things that you can figure out. I think that Rhonda has the best genetic analyzer out

00:31:53.360 | there. It's foundmyfitness.com. You can go on her site and just connect your, you'll have to go into

00:32:00.640 | 23andMe. You have to go in the settings. And there's a secret little setting in there that

00:32:04.560 | says export your data to let you download the raw data file, which has all of your information. And

00:32:10.320 | then you take that to Rhonda's site, upload it. And then she does the analysis or her machine,

00:32:15.600 | the computer does the analysis in real time, spits you back your report. And then it gives you

00:32:19.760 | something you can go and talk to your physician about because they tell you what's going on with

00:32:24.720 | the different SNPs that you might have. Now, one thing that you should just know about is they have

00:32:32.080 | the SNPs in there for Alzheimer's disease. So some people get freaked out by this particular SNP. So

00:32:37.280 | they have these things called, the way they classify them is you're either a 3/3. This is

00:32:43.120 | just how they classify them, which means that you don't have it. You're a 3/4, which means you have

00:32:48.080 | one copy of it. Or you're a 4/4, which means you have two copies of this particular gene. So if

00:32:53.840 | you're a 3/3, which I am, then you're standard risk, just like anyone else. If you're a 3/4,

00:32:58.720 | which my wife is, then you have, I think, a 20% increased risk of getting Alzheimer's disease.

00:33:04.480 | And if you're a 4/4, it's really high. It's something like, I don't know, I'm going to

00:33:08.320 | misquote it, but it's 60 or 70% increased risk of getting Alzheimer's disease. So the good news is

00:33:13.600 | that there's a great book called The End of Alzheimer's. There's a lot of things that if you

00:33:17.520 | know about this stuff, especially these genes early on, you can get in front of it. And you

00:33:22.160 | can get in front of it in terms of diet, low inflammation of diet, also a lot of exercise,

00:33:27.200 | sauna usage, like all the regimen that you can do that they have proven can delay the kind of

00:33:33.200 | onset of this stuff. If you take action now, some people freak out and they're like, "I don't want

00:33:38.080 | to see that. I just don't even want to know." Because there's not a whole lot of great treatments

00:33:42.080 | once you are actually diagnosed. So just be aware that it's going to expose that data. It shows you

00:33:48.080 | a lot of stuff that 23andMe won't show you. I prefer that. I think knowledge is power. And I

00:33:52.480 | think there's always something you can do here. So I'm fine with it, but just something to be aware

00:33:57.040 | of. That's awesome. We went through a lot. I know you mentioned Atiya and Rhonda's podcast.

00:34:02.560 | Any other sources of information to follow for all this stuff?

00:34:06.320 | Yeah, Matt Walker, who runs the Berkeley Sleep Lab, he has a new podcast out there

00:34:12.160 | that I would say we are increasingly just understanding the importance of sleep and

00:34:17.600 | its role in repairing the brain and mental health and a whole slew of different things.

00:34:22.640 | So I think definitely check out Matt Walker's podcast. Now, I will tell you, Peter Atiya,

00:34:28.880 | to get the most out of his podcast, it is a paid podcast. It's not a whole lot. You'd have to look

00:34:34.640 | it up, Chris. I don't have it in front of me. It's $50 a year or something. But this is a physician

00:34:39.760 | whose clients pay a ton of money for the same thing. It is worth every single penny, in my

00:34:47.440 | opinion. And I have no financial interest in anything he does. But the scientists that he

00:34:53.360 | has on the show and what they're telling you ahead of time that you'll learn about years before anyone

00:34:58.480 | else, it's just worth every penny. So anyway, yeah, check out Atiya's stuff.

00:35:03.600 | Awesome.

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00:37:45.060 | Okay, I know we got a lot of ground to cover, and I want to get to crypto and investing.

00:37:48.900 | Quick, before we get there, are there any other uncommon things you do in your routine,

00:37:54.660 | tools and services you use that might be worth sharing that kind of fall in the category of

00:37:59.300 | kind of hacks or optimizations? On the health side?

00:38:02.500 | Outside of the health side, just general life, things you do at work, on your computer,

00:38:07.620 | things you do professionally? I'm a security kind of nut, I would say,

00:38:11.700 | so there's probably, I think that when you, especially in the world of cryptocurrency,

00:38:15.780 | when you have to get serious about protecting your data, I do have a couple of little hacks

00:38:22.420 | there that I would say most people don't know about that I think are really important.

00:38:25.940 | So I guess it'd probably be a great way to move into our crypto talk, but I'll tell you one thing

00:38:32.820 | that I think is really important. So when you're creating and investing in crypto online, well,

00:38:38.660 | or anything, let's take a step back. Anytime you have online financial information,

00:38:46.420 | how do you access that? Well, you access it through putting in your email address and putting

00:38:50.580 | in your password. So when you log into your bank, when you log into your Coinbase account,

00:38:54.100 | when you log into any of these things, your Square Cash app, whatever it may be,

00:38:57.380 | it's almost always email address, password, right? Now, the issue with that is if that is compromised,

00:39:05.460 | then someone can, if your email is compromised, meaning someone gains access to your email,

00:39:10.820 | they can go and reset any of these passwords. They can go reset your Coinbase password,

00:39:14.100 | they can go reset all these different passwords, and they can log in. And in the case of

00:39:18.820 | cryptocurrency, we know it's a lot harder to recover those funds. Well, it's impossible to

00:39:22.660 | recover those funds once they're out of your wallet, they're sent to someone else.

00:39:26.260 | So one of the things I think people should consider is creating a second email address.

00:39:32.340 | So you have your email address that everyone knows that you talk to when you talk to strangers,

00:39:37.060 | when you're selling something on eBay, when you're selling something on Craigslist,

00:39:40.180 | when you're doing all these things, you have a public email address. And of course, that's fine,

00:39:45.060 | but that's not tied to anything that you could be compromised with. So you want to create a

00:39:50.580 | separate email address. Now, here's the thing. It's like, "Okay, yeah, sure, Kevin, I get it.

00:39:54.260 | Submit your email address, who cares?" There is something that Google has created

00:39:59.220 | called Google's Advanced Protection Security. So most people don't know about this. They don't

00:40:06.020 | publicize it directly on their website, but you can Google Advanced Protection Security.

00:40:12.260 | And what they'll do is they'll take your Gmail account, and this is completely free of charge,

00:40:16.900 | and they turn on extra security options that lock down a ton of stuff. So when you have advanced

00:40:24.900 | security turned on, they won't allow you to connect to third-party email clients, they won't

00:40:29.540 | allow you to access... I'm sure you've logged into those websites where it says, "Log in with your

00:40:34.740 | Gmail," and you try to log in with your Gmail. The scary thing back in the day was that some of

00:40:40.420 | those would ask for access to your email account and could see your emails and do all kinds of

00:40:46.180 | other things. So the advanced security just is probably a dozen or so things that they offer

00:40:52.100 | that really keep that account safe, including the requirement that you must have a hardware key.

00:40:58.580 | So they sell these little USB keys that require your actual finger to touch them in order for

00:41:05.540 | you to log into your account. And you can say, "Authorize this laptop forever," so you can just

00:41:09.540 | stick in the USB key, touch it with your fingers, pull it out, stick it in a drawer, and then that

00:41:13.620 | laptop will be authorized forever. But it will really prevent hackers from getting into your

00:41:18.900 | account. And you want to create a separate email address, use that for your Coinbase account,

00:41:24.740 | all your crypto stuff, your banking stuff, whatever that may be, and have that extra layer

00:41:29.860 | of security, and you'll sleep better at night. Yeah, I did that. We were actually hanging out

00:41:35.300 | in San Diego right after a piece came out about all my frequent flyer miles, and I just got

00:41:41.460 | rampantly attacked. I was getting calls from all the... Amex and Chase asking if I really wanted

00:41:46.980 | to transfer, if I really wanted to buy a MacBook, all this stuff. And so I moved every financial

00:41:52.180 | institution, every airline where I had frequent flyer miles, all to a new email address. No one

00:41:58.180 | has any reason to know that email address because I don't email on it, and it locked it down.

00:42:01.780 | And then the other one, I don't know if you do this, I've turned off everywhere possible

00:42:06.340 | two-factor auth with text. I put it to security keys. I put those security keys in one password,

00:42:12.980 | and I try to avoid that. I know there is this whole problem that I assume the carriers have

00:42:18.420 | gotten better, but people could pretty easily swap your phone number and get access to it,

00:42:22.980 | and then they could verify things with your phone number. So I've tried to turn off two-factor auth

00:42:27.380 | as much as possible and rely on authentication keys. You can use Google Authenticator. I put

00:42:32.180 | mine in one password. Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm on the same train in that all it takes is

00:42:37.700 | someone trying to act as you, and then they could transfer your phone number to a different device,

00:42:43.060 | and then they can go to town and start working on all those accounts. There are a couple companies

00:42:49.220 | out there that protect against SIM swapping fraud that are dedicated companies that they don't use

00:42:57.140 | the last four digits of your social or your date of birth or your anniversary to get access to

00:43:01.620 | here. Because oftentimes when you call your cellular provider, they're like, "Oh, you don't

00:43:05.540 | remember your password? Well, just give us the last four of your social." And of course, that's

00:43:08.580 | been hacked, and it's all over the internet these days. But there's a couple other services that

00:43:14.820 | prevent SIM card swapping, and they're essentially... They act like an intermediary between

00:43:22.980 | you and your cell phone provider, so you don't have to swap cell phone providers, but they are

00:43:28.580 | the ones that protect your SIM. It makes it much harder for someone to try and steal it. So stay

00:43:33.700 | tuned. I'm going to try a bunch of those out and then let you know which ones I like, and I'll

00:43:37.780 | relay the information back to you, Chris, in a future episode you can mention on the show as a

00:43:41.860 | hack. Yeah. And this might sound so simple, but a hack that I learned is you don't have to use your

00:43:48.260 | real mother's maiden name as your mother's maiden name. Oh, for sure. So when I call into the bank

00:43:53.140 | and they're like, "What's your mother's maiden name?" I give them a word that is not my mother's

00:43:58.020 | maiden name, and you can do that. Yeah, your mother's maiden name can be pancakes, can be

00:44:02.340 | anything. Yeah, that's so true. So I've changed all of those things. "What's your favorite

00:44:09.140 | instrument?" is often a 15 random character string that I've saved in one password. It can be

00:44:15.300 | annoying if you're trying to use a computer and you don't have access to one password and you

00:44:19.940 | can't log in, but the flip side is it's much more annoying to have someone steal your money or your

00:44:24.340 | frequent flyer miles. So that's awesome. So knocked out security. I want to get to the thing

00:44:29.620 | you're spending all of your time in, or at least a lot of your time on right now, which is all about

00:44:34.020 | investing in crypto. And before we get in, I just want to highlight, I think one of your superpowers

00:44:39.140 | has to be your willingness to dive in, understand things and take risk. And it's probably the reason

00:44:45.380 | that you're so deep in crypto right now. But I just want to ask, what do you think made you so

00:44:50.420 | successful with your ability to take risks and make good investments? Well, I guess a couple

00:44:56.340 | things. One, it is, I've always had this feeling that when I was younger, that when I would look

00:45:03.060 | at kind of where things were going, especially on the tech side of things, it seemed obvious to me

00:45:08.500 | where things were moving. I could kind of more or less gauge these shifts in momentum. And then

00:45:15.620 | on the investment side, it is just taking that and applying some, a little bit of rigor around it,

00:45:22.180 | and more or less just investing what I call like investing in the inevitable.

00:45:25.860 | So just when you see something that is a new idea that has some light traction on it,

00:45:31.140 | but you can close your eyes and fast forward and you understand that, of course, a decade from now,

00:45:38.180 | this is going to continue to grow and be a big market, then that takes a lot of the fear out

00:45:44.420 | of the equation for me and allows me to just pretend I'm living in the future, more or less,

00:45:50.740 | and just take the leap now. And so, you know, I remember there was one time when I was sitting in

00:45:55.620 | San Francisco, this was many years ago, and there was a garbage truck going up my hill because

00:46:00.820 | San Francisco is a very hilly city. And it was just struggling to even make it up the hill. I

00:46:05.780 | thought it was, I literally thought I was going to die and roll down this massive hill. And it was

00:46:10.500 | so clear to me at that point, Tesla's had just come out and just watch a Tesla just with like,

00:46:15.380 | effortlessly climb that hill. I was like, the future is not this loud, noisy, old,

00:46:21.940 | they're not going to be better versions of this that control the future. Of course,

00:46:26.260 | everything's going electric. And when e-commerce first started, Amazon really started getting to

00:46:32.020 | scale and offering cloud infrastructure, of course, everything's going to the cloud. So it's just,

00:46:37.300 | it's trying to find those moments that are true to you, that you internally can look at and say,

00:46:42.580 | we're early days here, let me get involved now. And then dollar cost averaged my way in. So it

00:46:49.380 | was never about me just putting in, it wasn't the angel side, because you place an investment and

00:46:53.860 | then you walk away and let the company go and run. But if it's already a publicly traded company,

00:46:58.900 | it's having some conviction, placing a small bet, and then maybe dividing up what your total

00:47:04.500 | investment is going to be and doing an investment at the same time every month for the next three

00:47:08.340 | months, just to kind of dollar cost average your way in. That's in my strategy. But that's not to

00:47:12.740 | say there's the obvious stuff that's already big. And for me, it's I kind of avoid that stuff.

00:47:19.460 | Amazon's a great example today, fantastic organization in terms of scale, reach,

00:47:24.900 | just the products. Are they going to be a $10 trillion company in the next few years? I don't

00:47:30.100 | think so. I don't think that's going to be the world. So I don't know that there's another quick

00:47:33.860 | five to 10x in here over the next decade for a company like that. So for me, it's always been,

00:47:38.740 | I'm less interested in the kind of slow growth dividend stocks and more about where's the next

00:47:45.140 | 10x, and placing a series of those bets, and knowing that a few of them will be flat to down,

00:47:52.100 | but some of them will be the 10, 20 plus Xers from there and make up for my losses.

00:47:57.460 | I mean, that's the way venture capital works. We know 80% of our investments are going to zero,

00:48:02.020 | but the ones that make it, some of them will be 100X, 500X, it'll just be,

00:48:06.660 | and that'll repay all of the ones that didn't work out. So it's having that conviction and

00:48:12.340 | not just betting on one horse, but knowing that some will not work out, and that's okay too.

00:48:18.340 | And knowing that helps you spread around the risk to multiple investments.

00:48:22.260 | And is this your only investment or is this kind of, this is what you do with the risky stuff and

00:48:27.700 | there's safe stuff also? I would say that on the safe side, I'm sure you've mentioned your

00:48:33.540 | involvement with Wealthfront. I was an angel investor in Wealthfront before you joined

00:48:37.060 | Wealthfront, which they were, Wealthfront's always been my set it and forget it. It is the,

00:48:43.300 | I just want to sleep at night and I know I'm just going to get a nice, more or less predictable

00:48:47.940 | return over the longterm. And that for me is the boring stuff. That's the stuff where I'm hoping

00:48:54.660 | for 5%, 7% year over year. And I know some years will be down, but others will make up for it over

00:48:59.940 | the next few decades. And I'm fine with that. The riskier stuff for me is I would say all of my

00:49:06.020 | crypto and NFTs. And that's where I want to take on a lot of risk. I actually don't hold individual,

00:49:12.180 | I used to hold individual stocks like when I had Square or the Amazons or Teslas or others.

00:49:18.020 | I've gotten out of that game. I think that a lot of the growth that I've enjoyed over the last few

00:49:24.020 | years has been on the crypto side. And I'm much more interested in the future of crypto than I am

00:49:28.580 | the future of publicly traded companies. Yeah. You've got two podcasts there. So I think that's

00:49:33.860 | a great place to go. I've heard so much talk. Crypto, Web3, it's the future of everything.

00:49:38.980 | It's going to change our lives like the mobile phone did. How big do you think this is?

00:49:44.020 | I would say that I believe it's very early innings. I think it's first pitch, first inning

00:49:49.860 | here when it comes to this stuff. And even though Bitcoin's been around for a while,

00:49:53.940 | and so is Ethereum, we haven't hit mass adoption by any sense. And again, that whole thing about

00:50:01.140 | investing in the inevitable, if you were starting a country today, and you're going to go out there

00:50:05.860 | and you just close your eyes and you say, "Okay, I've got this little island. I'm ready to start

00:50:10.900 | my country." You're not going to go and buy printing presses. The future isn't printing

00:50:17.140 | more physical paper. We all know that. We're paying mostly with Apple Pay and Android Pay

00:50:22.020 | now when we go to stores and things of that nature. So of course, a digital currency makes

00:50:26.500 | a ton of sense. Does it make sense for a currency to be global? Does it make sense for a currency to

00:50:32.660 | be able to send something to someone halfway around the world in a few seconds? For it not

00:50:38.420 | to be controlled by a government, but to be completely decentralized, so it's not tied

00:50:43.300 | to any one country. I would say yes to all those things. And that's what gets me so excited about

00:50:48.420 | cryptocurrency. And that's just on the currency side, the "currency" side. The other use cases

00:50:54.500 | for cryptocurrency, whether it be decentralized finance, where you say, "Hey, guess what? Look

00:50:59.380 | how much money Wells Fargo makes per year and adds to their balance sheet." It's just insanity.

00:51:05.140 | And the bloat there, the number of employees that they have. What about a world where rather than

00:51:12.260 | all of the heads that you need to pay to push papers at Wells Fargo, most of that is written

00:51:17.860 | into smart contracts. That's actually code that lives on the blockchain. And the efficiency that

00:51:22.500 | comes from that type of operation produces better yields. And that, to me, is really interesting

00:51:28.500 | work. And I'm taking advantage of that today. That's why I go out and I take my stable coins,

00:51:33.380 | which are my dollar-pegged cryptocurrencies, and I go out and I earn 8% or more interest on these

00:51:39.380 | coins at a handful of different places. And I just sit back, and every month, you just get that

00:51:44.580 | payment of that 8%. And it's a beautiful thing. Show me one bank that'll even get you 2% right

00:51:50.580 | now. It just doesn't even exist. So I love this idea that we're using the efficiency of technology

00:51:58.900 | to cut out the bloated old institutions and make this about giving and transferring the wealth

00:52:05.700 | back to the average consumer. That's really exciting. So I am quite comfortable right now,

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00:55:07.220 | I just want to thank you, Quick, for listening to and supporting the show.

00:55:12.580 | Your support is what keeps this show going. To get all of the URLs, codes, deals, and discounts

00:55:18.900 | from our partners, you can go to allthehacks.com/deals, so please consider supporting those

00:55:25.460 | who support us. Yeah, so you bring up a good point that it happens to be one of the most asked

00:55:31.380 | questions I've gotten recently from listeners, which is 8%, you're right, no bank's giving you

00:55:36.420 | 2%, most banks are giving you 0.0 something percent. It sounds too good to be true. I know

00:55:41.460 | you've dug into a lot of this. Is it too good to be true? I also keep a lot of my cash at BlockFi,

00:55:48.020 | I just talked about it in my newsletter. I believe that it isn't too good to be true and that I feel

00:55:53.940 | comfortable, but I know you've dug into this a lot more. What's your take on the risk associated

00:55:58.980 | with some of these high yield stablecoin crypto earning platforms? Yeah, I mean, let me just tell

00:56:05.060 | you the case for me, I was scared. Whenever you hear something is too good to be true, it oftentimes

00:56:12.820 | is. When I was doing my research and I heard that you could go to BlockFi or Gemini, those are the

00:56:20.100 | two, I would say, big centralized exchanges that offer pretty high yield. I thought to myself,

00:56:25.220 | "Crap, what happens if one of these defaults or I lose all my money?" It's a scary thing.

00:56:29.780 | What I did actually is I had the head of risk on over at Gemini, and then also the CEO of BlockFi

00:56:38.180 | come on my podcast, and I asked him these questions. Because honestly, it was personally,

00:56:42.420 | it was like, "I want to have my modern finance," which is that podcast. I said, "Tell me,

00:56:46.660 | what are you doing with my money? When I give you some serious dollars here to go off and deploy

00:56:51.860 | them and earn me this interest, where is that going?" Both of them are more or less the same.

00:56:57.860 | What they do behind the scenes is they go and obviously, they lend it back out.

00:57:02.100 | There are hedge funds, there are traditional banks, there are a whole slew of just different

00:57:06.500 | institutions that need access to these types of cryptocurrency coins for sometimes very short

00:57:12.180 | duration, sometimes longer duration. They take out these loans. What these BlockFi and Gemini do is

00:57:20.420 | they go and they do an analysis, a pretty deep dive into their books, their cash flows, their

00:57:26.260 | investors, and they make sure that whoever they're lending out to has a credible book of business and

00:57:32.660 | is doing something where they believe they're going to get this money back. A couple different

00:57:39.060 | things. One, they set aside, I believe it was, and you'll have to go listen to the episode, but I

00:57:45.140 | think it was Gemini, they have a slush fund that they set aside in case there ever is a default.

00:57:51.460 | Then they also do these types of investments across dozens or hundreds of different companies.

00:57:56.660 | It's not like if one failed, you would lose your money. It's almost like an old-school

00:58:02.980 | computer rate array where you have so much fault tolerance because there's so many individuals

00:58:07.140 | underneath the hood. In hearing how both of them really go deep on, they have whole teams of people

00:58:16.740 | that dive in and look at the accreditation of each of the people they're lending out to,

00:58:22.340 | to ensure that some of them are backed by real physical assets, to ensure that even if there

00:58:27.780 | was a default, their money back. It made me a lot more comfortable. Once I was able to wrap my head

00:58:34.420 | around that risk, and granted, obviously, there is risk here, there always is, because these aren't

00:58:38.660 | FDIC-insured investments. I was like, "Okay, I'm willing to take on that risk." That's when I

00:58:44.100 | decided to actually use both. I use both BlockFi and Gemini. You say why one versus the other.

00:58:49.380 | They're both around the same interest. At one point, Gemini was offering higher interest,

00:58:53.540 | and then BlockFi recently leaped them and now offers higher interest on stablecoins.

00:58:58.820 | But I'd rather spread my risk out, and they're both really credible exchanges. I decided to

00:59:05.300 | spread it across two of the big platforms. Yeah, that's awesome. Definitely, I'll link

00:59:10.340 | to the show notes. That episode, I listened to it. It got me comfortable using this as a place

00:59:15.220 | to store cash. Thank you for doing that. Crypto, there's so much more than just investing in

00:59:20.580 | stablecoins and earning a yield. How do you think about, if someone's listening and thinking about,

00:59:25.300 | "I believe in this future," how do you invest in that future? There's so many things going on.

00:59:30.500 | There's not a wealth front or an index fund to just say, "Hold all the things happening in

00:59:35.700 | crypto, DeFi, NFTs, et cetera." Yeah, it is tricky because, in some sense, if you're not

00:59:43.140 | doing this as your full-time job, there's just so many new coins coming out, and they're all

00:59:50.900 | trying to tackle a different problem. Whenever you see a new coin, the value proposition that

00:59:58.980 | they're trying to get out there is, "We are solving something that either consumers or

01:00:02.020 | enterprises need, and this is why we're useful, and this is why you should invest."

01:00:07.140 | Now, finally, there are a handful of these funds that are created as smart contracts that are

01:00:17.460 | bundling these coins together that you can buy and hold. One of the ones that's actually been

01:00:24.740 | out for a while, I have not personally used this one because I buy each individual coin myself

01:00:29.540 | because it is my full-time job to go and invest in these companies as a venture capitalist,

01:00:34.980 | but one that I've seen used a lot is something called TokenSets. It's tokensets.com,

01:00:40.980 | and if you go on there and you click on "Explore Sets," you'll see that they have these different

01:00:46.340 | indexes. You can say to yourself, "What am I interested in this world of crypto?"

01:00:52.020 | If you're interested in the metaverse, then there's an index for that. What that does,

01:00:57.380 | I'll just click on the first one here. It's the metaverse index. If you take a look down at what

01:01:02.420 | they're holding here, you'll see they're holding Sandbox, which is a big up-and-coming metaverse,

01:01:06.980 | Axie Infinity, which is one of the biggest games in the metaverse, Decentraland, the Wax Economy

01:01:12.820 | token, Guild Games, a few others here. They're holding around 20 or so different tokens at

01:01:18.820 | different weights, meaning they're holding some more than others. Then that could be an actual

01:01:26.420 | token that you buy, and then they go and they rebalance. You have to buy one token then versus

01:01:33.540 | having to figure out, "Oh, do I go buy these 11? Who are the 11 that I need to buy if I want to

01:01:38.660 | buy the metaverse?" It's very much how old-school mutual funds worked. You'd buy something based on

01:01:45.060 | an investment thesis and then go from there. I believe in the future of the metaverse. I think

01:01:50.020 | it's early. I also am a fan of decentralized finance. I think that's a fantastic use case

01:01:56.180 | for crypto. The DeFi Pulse Index, it's on set tokens. DeFi Pulse is probably one of the biggest

01:02:05.860 | sites out there that tracks decentralized finance. When we're talking about banks going away and

01:02:11.140 | tools around creating yield for individuals, in this particular set, if you were to buy this set,

01:02:18.100 | it holds Uniswap and Aave and Maker and Compound and Synthetix and Sushi and Yearn. These are all

01:02:25.060 | really popular plays in decentralized finance. The one thing I would say is I would recommend,

01:02:33.460 | and this is an investment advice because I can't give investment advice, but I'll tell you what I

01:02:38.100 | personally do. Then you could talk to your own folks on the investing side. What I personally

01:02:43.300 | do is I do not go and buy the top 10 coins weighted by market cap because I think there's a

01:02:48.420 | lot of garbage in there. When you buy the Fortune 500, you know that you're buying companies based

01:02:58.500 | on their success, based on cash flow and a whole slew of other economic indicators that you can

01:03:04.660 | track and peg to success. When you're looking at the top 20 currencies, there's meme coins in there.

01:03:12.820 | There's ones that are centralized exchanges. Shibu Inu is in there. There's a bunch of stuff

01:03:18.260 | that... I'm not discounting meme coins because I think they're always going to have a place in

01:03:23.300 | this kind of economy because it's more about community in that point, but there's things

01:03:27.140 | in there that I look at. I don't want to badmouth any of the coins, but I look at it and I say,

01:03:31.380 | "Gosh, that project is really stalled," or "It's really not going anywhere," or "It's not the

01:03:36.020 | future of cryptocurrency." So I wouldn't say just go buy the top 10 or top 20. It's better to find

01:03:42.420 | someone that you trust that's putting together an index of their favorite things.

01:03:45.380 | TokenSets is probably a fun place to kick the tires. And don't feel like you have to go in and...

01:03:51.780 | One great thing about this is you can go and experiment with relatively low dollars. Go in

01:03:57.380 | with $500 or $200 and just play and say, "Okay, what is this like if I were to invest in one of

01:04:03.940 | these tokens? How do I do it? How do I set up my wallet for the first time? What is MetaMask?"

01:04:10.180 | I'm a big fan of a try before you buy. And DeFi and Web3 and crypto should all be about

01:04:17.860 | taking a few hundred dollars and just going out and trying a bunch of different things and

01:04:21.700 | learning. It's just an education. Even if you lose the money, it's worth the education value.

01:04:25.780 | Absolutely. Yeah. Two things I'll share. There's a company called Makara. They're actually an

01:04:31.140 | investment advisor. So using them functions more like using a finance investing product.

01:04:36.580 | But they've put together a bunch of baskets like TokenSets. They have a universe one that's

01:04:41.540 | not quite market cap weighted. But I did notice that they pulled out some of the meme coins. So

01:04:46.340 | they have their version and they have a few others. Something to check out. I haven't used it.

01:04:50.260 | I'm not an investor. Just something I've seen as I've explored the space.

01:04:53.860 | The other thing I noticed was that if you look at the charts of all the tokens on any given day,

01:04:59.460 | we're still in a world where crypto is pretty correlated. So I would say if you're trying to

01:05:04.980 | decide which of the few tokens to have, when Bitcoin's down, a lot of other things are down.

01:05:10.100 | When Ethereum's up, a lot of other things are up. But you're probably not going to get the

01:05:13.220 | massive gains of picking an early token early on. But I will flag that there is still a lot

01:05:19.620 | of correlation in the crypto token investing space. So I don't know if you've seen that

01:05:24.660 | or share that belief, but I've noticed that the market moves together

01:05:28.020 | quite a bit more than it moves apart. Yeah. Certainly when there's big sell-offs,

01:05:33.860 | we see that impacts all coins and they all tend to dump at the same time.

01:05:38.500 | The other thing that I think is a really important piece of advice for people that are dabbling in

01:05:43.140 | crypto is the way I've seen the most damage be done to friends and family is when they put enough

01:05:51.860 | money in there that when something drops by 20, 30, 40 percent, they freak out and they sell.

01:05:57.540 | And they're like, "I'm out." And that means that you had too much money at risk. Because

01:06:02.340 | this is a world, when I mentioned earlier first pitch, first inning,

01:06:06.340 | it is so early on that to see a swing of 20, 30 percent in just a few days on your favorite coin,

01:06:13.300 | I don't care if it's Bitcoin or Ethereum, some of the bigger ones, it'll still happen. It's not

01:06:18.100 | uncommon. And so that freaks a lot of people out, especially when it's a lot of their net worth

01:06:23.460 | that's in here. But the reason why that is awesome is because it's just a actual representation of

01:06:32.100 | risk showing itself. And we like risk. We like risk because that means there's reward on the

01:06:37.460 | other side of that risk. And so if you can swallow that and get comfortable about it,

01:06:43.620 | and even sometimes double down when you have enough conviction on something when it is down,

01:06:47.940 | then that is where I have made the majority of my money. I'll see something that I believe in,

01:06:55.140 | Ethereum drops 20, 30 percent. And I'm like, "Well, of course, I believe that this is the

01:07:00.580 | future for X, Y, and Z use case." And just putting in another buy, another smaller buy

01:07:06.340 | when it's down, that's definitely my game. That's how I play it. And always with this crazy world,

01:07:12.660 | it's oftentimes, this is what I tell my sister, I'm like, "Just uninstall the app. Invest in

01:07:16.740 | Coinbase and just don't look at it for the next few years. Go in there, buy the two or three

01:07:21.540 | coins that you have a lot of conviction in and try not to check the prices every day." Drive you

01:07:25.940 | crazy. Yeah, this advice applies across all investing, right? The biggest reason consumers

01:07:31.460 | often lose money investing is because the market's crashing and they sell everything. And then the

01:07:35.780 | market's on the rise and they buy more. Totally agree. The one thing we didn't get to, I mean,

01:07:39.620 | you got a whole podcast on NFTs. It's something that I am not very involved in, but very curious

01:07:45.380 | how you think people can get started thinking about it. I love the concept and I feel like

01:07:50.580 | I don't know where to go. So I guess before we get started, for people that don't know what an

01:07:54.580 | NFT is, it's a non-fungible token. And actually my first episode on proof is one to listen to the

01:08:01.220 | very first episode because we go deep into a primer on what NFTs are. And it essentially is

01:08:06.580 | a way to say that I own something on the internet that is uniquely mine. So in the case of art,

01:08:14.740 | it can be an artwork that is pressed into the blockchain. And I can prove on the blockchain

01:08:20.580 | and looking up my address on the blockchain that I am the only holder of that piece of artwork.

01:08:25.620 | And then if I send it to you, Chris, you would see in the records on the blockchain that can't

01:08:30.020 | be destroyed, that can't be altered, that it was transferred to you. So I guess an NFT,

01:08:35.380 | the best way to think of it is something that you buy or is given to you and then you hold it and

01:08:41.860 | you can send it around to people. You can lock it up and divide it into something called a

01:08:46.820 | fractional NFT. So if people want to sell bits of their NFT, say there's a really expensive piece

01:08:51.780 | of artwork that is a couple of million dollars, but you can't really afford it. Then people are

01:08:56.580 | taking things and they're locking them up and they're fractionalizing them into even smaller

01:08:59.860 | components and then selling those off. So it's a really crazy world because there's so many things

01:09:04.980 | that you can do with them. People think of NFTs, they hear about the Beeple sale where he sold it

01:09:08.980 | for 60 some million dollars for a single JPEG that's on the blockchain. But they represent so

01:09:13.940 | many different things. One, they're a way for artists to get properly compensated over time.

01:09:19.780 | So an artist released a work of art, they sell it online. And if it's resold, they take part in the

01:09:26.500 | economics of that NFT being resold over time. So they get their 5%, 10%, 15%, whatever it may be,

01:09:31.700 | that's baked into the actual code. So as something is being resold, they're being

01:09:35.700 | compensated. So we're seeing this kind of renaissance happen where artists are blowing

01:09:39.620 | up, their artworks are getting resold, they're making a ton of money as they're being resold,

01:09:43.060 | they're backing other artists, those artists are blowing up. And it's just like that whole

01:09:47.380 | flywheel just continues to operate. And I think there's just going to be, again,

01:09:54.100 | thinking about the inevitable, the next decade or so, or even the next couple of years, as these

01:10:00.340 | beautiful digital frames, I've seen a bunch of prototypes are being worked on, where you'll be

01:10:04.980 | able to walk into someone's house and see what looks like a picture on the wall, you'll walk up

01:10:09.460 | to it, and it's a CryptoPunk, and you're like, "Oh, that's cool." And they're like, "Yeah,

01:10:13.300 | it's not actually a painting, that's an NFT, and that's a work of art, and I own that."

01:10:17.220 | It's going to become what seems awkward and seems odd, oftentimes becomes normal, and just

01:10:26.500 | something that is in a decade later, you're like, "Oh, of course that was the way it was always

01:10:32.260 | going to be." Because it just feels right. You need time. Time is this great tool that

01:10:38.340 | removes the awkwardness of things. It used to be so strange to even think about sending someone

01:10:44.900 | cryptocurrency, but now when you do it on a daily basis, or you're in this world, you just get

01:10:49.140 | really comfortable doing it, and you're like, "How was I ever operating any other way?" And

01:10:54.180 | that's what's going to happen to art as well. It'll be a thing where when you walk into a bar,

01:10:59.380 | you'll see a beautiful artwork on the wall, and you'll walk up to it, and it's like, "That's

01:11:02.740 | really cool." And you'll be able to pull out your phone and actually take it off the wall

01:11:06.660 | and transfer it to your phone, or rent it back to the bar and leave it up on the wall,

01:11:11.860 | or take it home and put it on your wall with just a few taps.

01:11:15.140 | Or buy a piece of it.

01:11:16.340 | Right, or buy a piece of it. It's fractionalized, right? Speaking of early days, this is a very

01:11:22.500 | exciting new world, and it's part of the reason why I created a dedicated podcast called Proof

01:11:27.540 | That's Just For This, because it applies to so many other things. It applies to utility

01:11:31.700 | NFTs, and what I mean by that is I had Mike Shinoda, one of the co-founders of Linkin Park,

01:11:36.740 | on the show the other day, and he just did a fantastic new drop called Ziggurats,

01:11:40.180 | which is a combination of this profile photos project combined with this generative music,

01:11:46.820 | which is just a really, really cool project. And Mike was just talking on the show about what he

01:11:53.540 | is doing in this world and the obvious stuff we talked about. He said in his mind, the obvious

01:11:58.980 | stuff is, "Oh, you attend five of my shows. You get NFTs at each show, and then the wallet tells

01:12:05.860 | you you have special access to a backstage meetup." It's going to be so cool to see how NFTs

01:12:13.220 | are used to unlock all of this additional things and functionality that you can do in real in-person

01:12:20.500 | events. So there's so many different uses, and metaverses, too. NFTs are being used as wearables

01:12:26.020 | and skins and games and all those things that kids have been paying for a decade now. You'll

01:12:30.980 | be able to take them into other metaverses and other virtual worlds. It's just going to be so

01:12:34.180 | much fun. Yeah. So definitely check out the podcast. I know I've been listening. I have

01:12:39.540 | learned a lot. Talk a little bit about what you're doing. You're launching something on Saturday.

01:12:44.820 | Yeah. I've got a big announcement coming out for fans and people that are into NFTs.

01:12:50.340 | The name of the podcast is called Proof, P-R-O-O-F, and I'm launching something called

01:12:56.180 | the Proof Collective. The Proof Collective is essentially going to be an NFT that you collect.

01:13:03.140 | It'll be the Proof Collective NFT, but it is one of these utility NFTs that I mentioned, where

01:13:07.060 | when you hold it, it unlocks a ton of benefits. So you get access to a private members-only Discord,

01:13:12.660 | and there's only 1,000 people. I'm only doing 1,000 of these NFTs, and there'll be 1,000 people

01:13:17.540 | that will be members that have access to this private Discord. Discord for people that don't

01:13:23.060 | know. It's a place where you can go and chat and hang out. But inside of there, we'll be talking

01:13:26.740 | about all the latest new projects, new artists, upcoming drops. We'll have some tools for serious

01:13:31.700 | collectors. You'll also have early access to my podcast, so you get to hear them before anyone

01:13:36.340 | else. And then I'm going to be doing a whole slew of different additional benefits and collaborations

01:13:41.140 | over the length of the utility. So when you own it, you get the benefits for three years. So

01:13:45.460 | there'll be some pretty wide-ranging benefits from simple stuff like local in-person meetups

01:13:50.820 | to some much wilder ideas and collaborations that we'll be revealing soon.

01:13:54.900 | So I would just say, yeah, I mean, to plug my own stuff, at a minimum, check out the podcast.

01:14:00.180 | It's just proof.xyz. If you're already into NFTs or you really want to get serious about collecting,

01:14:05.220 | you might want to consider joining the Proof Collective. And you can learn more. The sale

01:14:10.020 | of that NFT goes on sale at 12/11 on the 11th at 9 a.m. Pacific. And that's proofnft.xyz. It has

01:14:18.260 | that video explainer giving a lot more information and details there. And yeah, you can always

01:14:22.980 | collect one of those at launch or buy one in the secondary after they go live. And we'll see you

01:14:26.580 | in the private Discord. And it'll be a great place to learn a lot, make some new friends, and also do

01:14:31.620 | some fun stuff together over the years. And you've always been ahead of the curve on all this stuff.

01:14:36.580 | So this is something I'm excited about. Anywhere else people should check you out online? I know

01:14:40.820 | we've covered a lot. Yeah, we'll have to go back and do a round two of this at some point and go

01:14:46.100 | even deeper. But if you're wanting to check out the Modern Finance podcast,

01:14:49.940 | you can check that out at modern.finance. And also, all my stuff is linked up over on my Twitter,

01:14:56.420 | which is just @KevinRose on Twitter. And yeah, thanks for having me on. This was a lot of fun.

01:15:01.780 | Yeah, thanks for joining. Wow, there was so much great stuff in this episode. So definitely check

01:15:07.380 | out the show notes for links to everything we talked about. We definitely ran out of time,

01:15:11.540 | so we'll have to do another episode like this sometime in 2022. Also, I've gotten so much good

01:15:16.820 | feedback from you all on the newsletter I've been sending out. So if you're not subscribed,

01:15:20.740 | please do that at allthehacks.com/email. And finally, I love hearing from you all. So please

01:15:27.140 | send feedback, questions, ideas for shows, or even just reach out to say hi. I'm Chris

01:15:33.700 | at allthehacks.com, or you can find me on Twitter. I'm just @hutchins. That's it for this week. See

01:15:39.940 | you next week. I want to tell you about another podcast I love that

01:15:56.980 | goes deep on all things money. That means everything from money hacks to wealth building

01:16:01.620 | to early retirement. It's called The Personal Finance Podcast, and it's much more about

01:16:06.500 | building generational wealth and spending your money on the things you value than it is about

01:16:10.980 | clipping coupons to save a dollar. It's hosted by my good friend Andrew, who truly believes that

01:16:16.420 | everyone in this world can build wealth, and his passion and excitement are what make this show so

01:16:21.460 | entertaining. I know because I was a guest on the show in December 2022, but recently I listened to

01:16:27.780 | an episode where Andrew shared 16 money stats that will blow your mind, and it was so crazy to learn

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01:16:38.980 | just one of the many fascinating stats he shared. The Personal Finance Podcast has something for

01:16:44.420 | everyone. It's filled with so many tips and tactics and hacks to help you get better with

01:16:48.740 | your money and grow your wealth. So I highly recommend you check it out. Just search for

01:16:53.300 | The Personal Finance Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts and

01:16:58.580 | enjoy.