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00:01:34.640 | Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks, a show about upgrading
00:01:43.040 | life, money, and travel all while spending less and saving more.
00:01:46.640 | I'm Chris Hutchins, and I'm on my own quest to find every hack there is.
00:01:50.440 | But all this research takes time and there are only so many hours in the day.
00:01:54.240 | So today I'm so excited to be talking to Laura Vanderkam, who helps people spend
00:01:58.720 | more time on what matters and less on what doesn't.
00:02:01.040 | She's the author of several time management and productivity books,
00:02:04.840 | including What the Most Successful People Do Before Breakfast and 168 Hours.
00:02:08.880 | Her work has appeared in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Fast
00:02:12.440 | Company, and Fortune.
00:02:13.360 | She hosts two podcasts, Before Breakfast and Best of Both Worlds, and blogs at
00:02:17.680 | lauravanderkam.com.
00:02:18.760 | I have no idea how anyone could have time for all that, and she has five
00:02:22.880 | children, but that's exactly why we're here today.
00:02:25.400 | Laura, thank you for being here.
00:02:27.280 | Thanks so much for having me.
00:02:29.600 | I just wanted to kick this off and ask, like, what is the biggest
00:02:32.560 | misconception you think people have about time management?
00:02:34.960 | Well, that it's about doing more with your time.
00:02:38.880 | Many people are interested in hacks, as why we listen to a podcast like this,
00:02:45.000 | where, you know, we're going to save time by, I don't know, cleaning the
00:02:48.320 | shower while we're in it or soaking our pasta before we boil it so it takes less
00:02:53.200 | time to boil, or sending emails where instead of saying, OK, you just write
00:02:58.680 | K because we feel like we are somehow more efficient when we don't use the
00:03:02.520 | letter O. And that's fine.
00:03:05.480 | I mean, there's no point in spending more time on things than we need to.
00:03:08.600 | But fundamentally, time management is about using the time we have to build
00:03:15.360 | the lives we want.
00:03:16.760 | And sometimes that is about being very efficient with things and getting
00:03:21.720 | through quickly.
00:03:22.280 | And sometimes it's about throwing gobs of time against something because it's
00:03:26.520 | what you really want to do.
00:03:28.520 | Yeah, one of the things that stood out to me, I had a chance to read a couple
00:03:33.280 | of your books.
00:03:33.960 | You've written a lot, so I apologize.
00:03:36.000 | I didn't get to all of them yet.
00:03:37.080 | But in every single one, you emphasize that when people say they don't have
00:03:41.400 | time, it's not really true.
00:03:44.080 | They have time.
00:03:45.000 | It's just not necessarily a priority.
00:03:46.840 | And you emphasize a lot that people actually have 168 hours every week, which
00:03:53.000 | leaves them with somewhere between 60 and 70 non-waking, non-work hours,
00:03:58.400 | depending on how much they work.
00:03:59.640 | And so I'm curious, when you talk to people about how much time they have, how
00:04:05.320 | do you suggest people start to get started just thinking about what that
00:04:09.160 | means in their own life?
00:04:10.200 | Yeah, well, first, switching to that 168-hour perspective is huge for most
00:04:15.240 | people. We are accustomed to thinking in life in terms of days, which is 24
00:04:19.800 | hours. But in fact, you live life in weeks.
00:04:23.440 | So that's 24 times 7, or 168 hours, which is, by the way, a number I didn't
00:04:28.160 | know until I multiplied it through and I started writing about this.
00:04:30.840 | I don't know why we don't know that number, but that's the number of hours
00:04:33.920 | in a week. And the reason this is important, I mean, it gives us a more
00:04:37.360 | complete picture of our time.
00:04:39.160 | Like, is Tuesday a normal day for you or Saturday a normal day for you?
00:04:42.840 | They both occur just as often, and they both have the exact same number of
00:04:47.920 | hours. But many people spend them very differently.
00:04:50.880 | And if we only look at one of them, then we have a misleading perception of
00:04:54.960 | time. So thinking about 168 hours gets rid of that issue and also just shows
00:05:00.120 | us how much time we have.
00:05:01.720 | Like you said, if you are working a 40-hour-a-week full-time job, so
00:05:06.040 | standard full-time hours, if you are sleeping 8 hours a night, which is 56
00:05:11.160 | hours per week, that leaves 72 hours for other things, which is quite a bit
00:05:16.480 | of time. And obviously, people have different levels of responsibility within
00:05:20.800 | that 72 hours.
00:05:21.960 | I mean, some people have nothing else they need to do within that.
00:05:25.040 | Some people have more intense caregiving responsibilities, for instance, which
00:05:29.080 | can certainly take a lot of that time.
00:05:31.000 | But one way or the other, I have not seen anyone's schedule where they don't
00:05:36.760 | have some discretionary time.
00:05:39.360 | Maybe it's not as much as we want, but it is some.
00:05:43.280 | And when we have that perspective that we probably have some, then we can
00:05:47.960 | change our narrative from I have no free time whatsoever.
00:05:50.720 | I have no time for anything.
00:05:51.880 | I'm a victim of circumstance, too.
00:05:55.080 | I have some amount of time that I have autonomy over.
00:05:58.760 | What would I like to do with it?
00:06:00.200 | What kind of life would I like to create within this time that I have?
00:06:03.320 | Yeah, I can't imagine anyone listening says, OK, I have all this time.
00:06:08.160 | I want to change that narrative or I don't want to change that narrative.
00:06:12.360 | What is the kind of first step to start changing that narrative?
00:06:16.080 | Well, I am a big believer in actually tracking our time, which before your
00:06:20.840 | listeners flee, is really in keeping with the whole life hacking mindset.
00:06:26.320 | You know, we want to know the data so we can make the best of it.
00:06:29.720 | So I have actually been tracking my time on weekly spreadsheets for six years.
00:06:35.040 | You do not have to do that.
00:06:36.680 | Nobody has to do that.
00:06:38.040 | I'm a bit of a time management freak, but I do think it is helpful to try
00:06:41.520 | tracking your time for one week.
00:06:43.440 | See where the time really goes.
00:06:46.360 | Many people are quite surprised about where the time goes, because again, if
00:06:52.040 | you don't know there are 168 hours in a week, it is very hard to figure out the
00:06:55.760 | proportions. I mean, you don't know the denominator.
00:06:57.880 | So we're just kind of flying blind.
00:07:00.200 | If you get paid by the hour, you know how many hours you work.
00:07:03.040 | If you don't get paid by the hour, this can be a far more nebulous concept.
00:07:07.400 | And people put all sorts of numbers on it that are more based on how they feel
00:07:11.080 | about their work than the actual usual hours.
00:07:14.480 | Same thing with sleep.
00:07:15.680 | If we feel tired, we tend to put a low number on it as opposed to actually
00:07:19.360 | tracking it. If we feel like we don't have a lot of free time, we'll decide we
00:07:23.720 | have zero or have very little amount.
00:07:25.920 | And then you track and say, well, oh, I do have some.
00:07:28.600 | Maybe it's like two hours after my young kids go to bed and before I do.
00:07:32.240 | But because we're not thinking in that mindset, we don't see that it's there.
00:07:36.320 | And when we tell ourselves we have no time, then we don't think about what we
00:07:40.320 | want to do with it. We spend it in effortless ways.
00:07:42.800 | So try tracking your time for a week.
00:07:44.920 | I promise it will be worthwhile.
00:07:47.360 | You will discover interesting things and then you can decide what you want to do
00:07:50.960 | with that data.
00:07:51.720 | Yeah, and I assume if you've tracked your time for six years, you found that there
00:07:57.360 | isn't an app that's better than a spreadsheet, it sounds like spreadsheet is
00:08:00.480 | just the easiest, simplest way.
00:08:01.960 | You know, I think there are probably different schools of thought on this.
00:08:05.840 | There are definitely a lot of time tracking apps on the market.
00:08:08.680 | And if any of your listeners are particularly into apps or think it would be
00:08:12.800 | more straightforward or easy for them to stick with it with an app, then by all
00:08:16.800 | means use that. I like the spreadsheets because it forces me to account for my
00:08:21.120 | time, like I actually have to write it down.
00:08:23.400 | Similar in the way people who are into budgeting, for instance, often like to
00:08:27.120 | manually track their spending so they know where it goes.
00:08:29.400 | It also serves as a diary because I'm writing what I'm doing.
00:08:34.040 | And so there's a little space for narrative there as I write things.
00:08:37.520 | And I also don't have to be quite as good about what category does this fall into
00:08:41.400 | because my spreadsheets are a bit less exact than I think an app would force you
00:08:45.920 | to be in terms of categorizing because the app wants to make a pie chart out of
00:08:50.280 | your time. And so all your categories have to be mutually exclusive and
00:08:54.560 | comprehensively exhaustive.
00:08:55.880 | And on my spreadsheet, if I'm just manually adding things up, I don't have to
00:08:59.160 | do that.
00:08:59.440 | Yeah. And what are the most common things you think people find as things that they
00:09:06.200 | need to get rid of or things that are wasting their time?
00:09:08.360 | Well, I think the biggest thing that wastes time is just being mindless about
00:09:13.040 | it, not thinking about how we would like to spend our time.
00:09:15.640 | And so when we do have time that could be discretionary, we are not prepared to
00:09:20.560 | seize it. So as an example, if you don't think about what you want to do on the
00:09:25.600 | weekend, like you'll sit there on Saturday morning sort of hemming and hawing,
00:09:29.560 | you're like, oh, I don't know what I want to do.
00:09:30.840 | What does everyone else want to do?
00:09:31.840 | If you're with another group of people, if you have a family or other people you
00:09:34.680 | might spend weekends with, you don't get started on this decision until midday.
00:09:39.200 | And then half the time you could have used for something on Saturday is already
00:09:42.880 | gone. So many of the things that you could have chosen are not there.
00:09:46.920 | Or you had this time from the morning until midday that could have been devoted to
00:09:51.720 | something really fun that if you'd thought about it ahead of time and had the
00:09:55.720 | logistics in place to do it.
00:09:58.040 | And so that's what winds up happening to people or at the end of the day,
00:10:01.640 | particularly if any of your listeners have jobs and young kids, a lot of your
00:10:07.280 | during the week leisure time will occur at night, right after young kids go to
00:10:12.760 | bed. And so like it could be a reasonable amount of time.
00:10:16.720 | It could be, you know, 90 minutes, two hours.
00:10:18.960 | But if you're not really thinking of it as I have this chunk of time, I can choose
00:10:23.640 | to do something that I want to with this time.
00:10:26.880 | Then you'll just start scrolling around online or like resorting the mail pile or
00:10:30.880 | puttering around the house or doing nothing of any interest to you.
00:10:35.200 | Really, it's not really relaxing you.
00:10:36.640 | It's not rejuvenating you.
00:10:37.720 | It's not what you would have chosen if you'd actually thought about like, hey, I
00:10:41.680 | have two hours.
00:10:42.880 | I don't have child care responsibilities.
00:10:44.800 | I have this as leisure time.
00:10:46.080 | What would I like to do?
00:10:47.440 | So being mindful allows you to seize the time that is there.
00:10:53.160 | And if we think about how we'd like to spend our time, we vastly increase the
00:10:57.120 | chances that we use it for things that are meaningful to us.
00:11:01.560 | Yeah, do you think it's more helpful to start with, OK, so I've time tracked a
00:11:06.080 | week and I've looked at everything in the account or in the calendar, the
00:11:09.320 | spreadsheet. Do I start with what are the things that are meaningless and remove
00:11:13.200 | them? Or do I start with what are the things that I should prioritize?
00:11:16.440 | I actually think you should start with that question of what you want to spend
00:11:19.840 | more time doing in your life.
00:11:21.960 | And that is because it, you know, when we fill our lives with the stuff that we
00:11:28.600 | want to have there, everything else just naturally takes less time.
00:11:33.000 | I mean, we can spend all sorts of time coming up with these hacks of like
00:11:36.360 | sending our emails that say K instead of OK, right, to save a few minutes.
00:11:40.160 | But then, you know, what are you doing with that time?
00:11:42.440 | Whereas if you have a project at work that you are so excited about and that you
00:11:47.280 | have put big chunks of time into your work schedule to work on, like you are
00:11:50.840 | naturally sending fewer stupid emails because you don't want to like you don't
00:11:55.680 | want to devote the time to it.
00:11:57.360 | You have other things that have a bigger claim on your time that you really want
00:12:01.040 | to do. Same thing in our personal life.
00:12:03.120 | I mean, there's all sorts of hacks to spend less time on housework to do it more
00:12:06.200 | efficiently. But if you are, you know, meeting with your bowling league every
00:12:11.120 | Tuesday night and going out and doing that, like you're not going to be
00:12:15.280 | spending all that time puttering around the house, randomly cleaning stuff up
00:12:18.640 | that just gets dirty again five minutes later because you have something that's
00:12:22.560 | worthwhile and enjoyable to you.
00:12:24.080 | And so everything else fills in around the craps.
00:12:27.280 | Yeah, I think we have a 10 month old and we have an au pair and she ends her day
00:12:32.640 | at 530 and I'm like so efficient to be done at 530 in a way that I feel like I
00:12:38.320 | would would have spilled over till 630.
00:12:40.480 | So you phrased it in the book, Create a Life So Exciting.
00:12:43.200 | You want to work faster at some point.
00:12:45.920 | And I've seen that come to life.
00:12:47.560 | So what are the things that you think people get the most value from
00:12:52.560 | prioritizing?
00:12:54.360 | Well, I think there are three main categories that I kind of put priorities
00:12:59.800 | into that I find many people find helpful.
00:13:02.200 | Obviously, there's the professional stuff.
00:13:03.880 | So your career, hopefully something that you find exciting and meaningful that
00:13:07.840 | how you're making this big impact on the world relationships.
00:13:11.720 | So that would be your family and friends and the things that you wish to
00:13:14.720 | prioritize in building those relationships and making them stronger.
00:13:18.320 | And then finally, in the category of self.
00:13:20.520 | So those are the things that are enjoyable for you, nurturing your health,
00:13:26.240 | maintaining energy, your spiritual development or any hobbies that you wish
00:13:31.920 | to do. So those three categories tend to be the ones that are most worth
00:13:38.880 | prioritizing.
00:13:39.800 | And the one kind of small thing you mentioned in the book was that exercise
00:13:46.280 | kind of which falls into that third category of prioritizing yourself can
00:13:50.000 | actually sometimes make time.
00:13:51.320 | Yeah, I really think that sleep and exercise don't take time so much as they
00:13:56.680 | do make time, because whatever time you devote to those things within reason is
00:14:01.680 | going to be paid back to you in terms of more energy, better focus.
00:14:05.920 | Whereas if you deliberately skimp on those things, thinking that you are going
00:14:10.880 | to save time somehow, I think we have all had the experience.
00:14:15.000 | I mean, particularly if you have a 10 month old, I mean, if you had a bad
00:14:17.720 | night, everything takes longer the next day.
00:14:20.240 | Like you just don't have the resources to get through hard stuff when you are
00:14:27.320 | tired. And it's not that you did something wrong.
00:14:30.920 | It's just that that's the nature of of the energy where people be like, oh,
00:14:34.120 | yeah, I'm going to work hard, work through lunch.
00:14:36.040 | I'm at my desk all day.
00:14:38.160 | You know, I'll get through everything.
00:14:39.320 | I mean, yes, we want to be efficient, but you don't get up and move or anything
00:14:43.120 | like that. Don't take any breaks.
00:14:44.400 | And come to thirty three o'clock in the afternoon, you're reading the same email
00:14:48.400 | six times in a row, like you're following a link in there.
00:14:50.960 | Next thing you know, you didn't mean to me, but you're somewhere on social media
00:14:53.680 | lost, like reading headlines about stuff you totally didn't mean to or looking at
00:14:58.480 | photos of people you didn't like in high school anyway.
00:15:01.520 | And all this time can disappear because you needed a break and you didn't take a
00:15:06.480 | break. So it's far better to decide, like, I'm going to go for a brisk walk at two
00:15:10.720 | o'clock in the afternoon, come back, you can actually focus.
00:15:14.080 | So that 30 minutes was technically not working.
00:15:18.840 | But if you are able to work much more efficiently afterwards, then you didn't lose
00:15:23.640 | time in the process.
00:15:24.640 | And do you think people should schedule those breaks or just kind of be try to be
00:15:29.000 | aware that they need to happen?
00:15:30.320 | It depends what kind of job you have.
00:15:32.720 | If you have a very flexible job where you don't have a whole lot of scheduled
00:15:36.800 | commitments, then sure, do it whenever you really notice yourself getting into that
00:15:41.160 | moment of being low energy and needing some sort of break.
00:15:44.760 | On the other hand, you know, if you have different patients you're seeing every 20
00:15:49.320 | minutes, obviously you're going to have to be more proactive about scheduling that in
00:15:52.960 | in order to have that break whenever that would be possible within your schedule.
00:15:56.680 | And so I tried to go through a lot of these exercises in advance of speaking with you
00:16:03.080 | because I thought it'd be helpful. And I thought about, OK, career, family, yourself.
00:16:07.640 | And then I thought, what about all these things that we all have on our kind of to do
00:16:11.640 | list, if you will, like I need to go to the DMV sometime before my license expires.
00:16:15.880 | I want to organize the garage, things that never seem to be a priority that I want to
00:16:21.040 | do now, but I know sometimes have to happen.
00:16:23.520 | How do how do people how should people kind of think about prioritizing them and when
00:16:28.760 | to do them? They feel like they always just get pushed off.
00:16:32.000 | Yeah, well, I mean, these are things that you can, in fact, put on your to do list.
00:16:35.960 | I suggest people as much as possible try to batch things like that and put them all on
00:16:41.680 | a certain day, a certain chunk of hours, because then it forces prioritization within
00:16:46.920 | that. Right. Like if you have all weekend to run errands, like it can take all weekend
00:16:52.400 | to run your errands. Whereas if you say, OK, I had to get everything done in this two
00:16:57.080 | hour block, two and a half hour block, whatever it is you wanted to vote to it, you
00:17:00.680 | will be more efficient within that time or within cleaning your house.
00:17:04.200 | Same thing if you say, OK, we're going to clean this whole thing in 90 minutes.
00:17:08.000 | Everyone's focused on it.
00:17:09.520 | Everyone's doing it. We're going to get it done.
00:17:11.520 | And then the upside of that, too, is not only does it force efficiency within that,
00:17:15.600 | like if you find yourself looking at a dirty floor at some other point, you don't have
00:17:20.120 | to be like, oh, I should go do that instead of whatever I'm doing right now and be like,
00:17:23.280 | oh, yeah, there's a time for cleaning the floor now is not that time.
00:17:27.200 | Right. And that allows us to relax.
00:17:29.600 | So whenever we can batch things, it forces the prioritization within the batched window
00:17:35.480 | and then also allows our brains to relax and let go of that constant loop of I should
00:17:41.040 | be doing X. That keeps us from relaxing.
00:17:43.560 | It keeps us from focusing on things that we have chosen to do during any given time
00:17:47.440 | because, yeah, you know, there's a time to go to the DMV.
00:17:49.960 | You've set it up. It's for, you know, Friday morning.
00:17:52.400 | You're going to do all these things and that's when you're going to go.
00:17:54.360 | And now it's not Friday morning, so I can stop thinking about it.
00:17:57.520 | So a lot of the things we've been talking about take a good portion of your time.
00:18:01.040 | But what about when you just have three to five minutes, whether a meeting ends early or
00:18:04.680 | you're waiting in line, is there anything you can do with that time to make it more
00:18:07.760 | productive? I think you should use that time to read.
00:18:10.480 | I mean, most of us pick up our phones and check email or scroll through social media or
00:18:15.080 | check headlines in those little bits of time.
00:18:17.040 | And it makes sense because our phones are there.
00:18:19.560 | They are convenient. These are things we can interact with in short and uncertain amounts
00:18:24.040 | of time. But there are other things you can do, too.
00:18:26.440 | If you have an e-reader app on your phone and put e-books on your phone, then you can
00:18:32.280 | use those little bits of time to read.
00:18:34.800 | Now, you may not want to choose, like, the most gripping novel ever for five minutes of
00:18:40.760 | time because then you'll be very, very sad when the person calls you and you're like,
00:18:44.400 | "Darn it, I have to put it down." But like a lot of nonfiction, for instance, could be
00:18:48.800 | read in those small chunks of time, and those small chunks of time really add up.
00:18:54.480 | It is not at all unusual for people to have 30 minutes of these small chunks of time
00:18:59.880 | through the day. And hey, if you use that to read, that's 30 more minutes of reading you
00:19:04.080 | get done per day. That's, you know, 210 minutes a week, which is three and a half hours.
00:19:09.920 | And that's a lot. Like you could be getting through an extra book a week in that amount of
00:19:13.440 | time. So consider doing that with your little bits of time instead.
00:19:17.840 | What about people? So you talked about family and relationships.
00:19:21.240 | I find that sometimes people can turn into, at least for me, what I'll call the human
00:19:29.560 | version of email, where you can meet up with someone and next thing you know, you're
00:19:33.880 | talking for four hours.
00:19:35.440 | And it's not that I don't want to spend time with people.
00:19:38.280 | It's not that I don't want to build these relationships.
00:19:40.120 | But there's also only 168 hours in a week.
00:19:42.880 | And, you know, I may only want to prioritize an hour of spending time with someone, but
00:19:48.520 | it just always ends up falling into three hours to do dinner or go out for drinks or
00:19:53.200 | have someone over. Do you have any kind of tips for keeping relationships strong but
00:19:59.280 | not throwing, you know, the whole week into it?
00:20:01.600 | Yeah, well, I mean, if you have people like that, that you do want to see, but you want
00:20:05.960 | to limit the time, your best bet is coming up with stuff that is more naturally limited.
00:20:11.640 | So, you know, you meet the person for a walk.
00:20:14.560 | You probably aren't going to walk for three hours.
00:20:16.600 | Like, it's just, you know, we're going to do this loop around this lake, which is two
00:20:21.160 | miles. When we are done with the two miles, we are, in fact, done.
00:20:23.680 | And so that is something that might more naturally limit it.
00:20:27.520 | Or if you know you have a scheduled commitment afterwards, you can be very clear about
00:20:31.600 | this. Be like, hey, you know, as we're we're talking, I wanted to make sure I caught up
00:20:35.520 | with you. Just, you know, by the way, I said I'd have to call my mom at whatever
00:20:41.320 | time, just so you know.
00:20:42.480 | But anyway, it's something that, you know, there is an end to it because I think that's
00:20:46.600 | totally fine. There's certainly people that we want to spend time with.
00:20:49.480 | We don't want to spend all our time with.
00:20:51.560 | And if it gets to that, then you can sort of say, you know, I'm willing to spend within
00:20:55.960 | this window, like five minutes to 60 minutes.
00:20:59.040 | That is the upper limit.
00:21:00.440 | We will always end it around that time.
00:21:02.560 | You know, and as long as you're nice about it, I think people are going to roll with
00:21:07.960 | it, especially if it seems like there's a real circumstance that is ending it.
00:21:11.280 | It's not like, yeah, I've had enough of you.
00:21:13.040 | Yeah. And one of the quotes that was probably it might be my favorite quote was it can
00:21:19.520 | take hours to buy back the goodwill burned in a two second glance at your phone while
00:21:23.720 | someone's trying to tell you something important.
00:21:25.320 | Yeah. And my takeaway from that quote kind of ties in here, which was.
00:21:29.560 | If you know that you're spending 30 minutes with someone and you've said, look, this is
00:21:34.720 | the time I've decided I want to spend with you, it kind of makes it more easy to say,
00:21:39.840 | I want to be here.
00:21:41.600 | I'm going to be present.
00:21:42.520 | I'm going to turn everything else off because I've prioritized it versus get a random
00:21:46.800 | phone call, answer the phone call while you're cleaning the house.
00:21:49.520 | Now you're like in the middle of one activity trying to do another.
00:21:52.880 | It's probably not even the most productive hour on either task at hand, talking to the
00:21:57.360 | friend or cleaning the house.
00:21:58.560 | So I know that quote really stuck with me as as a inspiration for when you are doing
00:22:03.880 | something, just focus on that.
00:22:05.360 | Yeah. I would also say because, you know, people may want to do that, but what often
00:22:10.920 | happens is like, what time is it?
00:22:12.560 | Because they do have something they have to do afterwards.
00:22:15.000 | And and so one thing you can do is set alarms.
00:22:18.840 | And I've seen my husband do this for like business situations.
00:22:23.640 | Like if he's talking to a client, he wants the person to feel like he is fully focused
00:22:28.080 | on them. But, you know, he has to leave to catch a train or something.
00:22:31.960 | So he has an old fashioned like watch, like a digital wristwatch, and he sets an alarm
00:22:36.280 | for like, you know, if the meeting was at two and he has to leave at three, it's like
00:22:39.640 | two fifty five, it goes off.
00:22:40.720 | So he's totally relaxed until two fifty five when that alarm goes off, which sounds like
00:22:44.760 | something totally separate.
00:22:45.800 | You know, it wasn't him. He didn't do anything.
00:22:47.680 | He wasn't looking at the clock to see what time it was.
00:22:49.720 | So that's something you can do so that, you know, you won't have to think about it.
00:22:54.800 | You won't have to sneak glances at your phone or something else when you're talking to
00:22:58.400 | the person. And yet, you know, it will be stopped when you need to stop.
00:23:02.760 | Yeah, mine is I've turned off all vibrations for notifications and messages and
00:23:09.080 | anything. So, you know, I don't someone told me, oh, just turn off, turn your phone in
00:23:13.920 | airplane mode, turn it off.
00:23:15.400 | You don't see the screen.
00:23:16.360 | Well, that means that if there's something that you need to check, it's like a big
00:23:19.640 | hassle. But if you could turn off all the vibrations, all the noise, then your phone
00:23:24.360 | could sit in your pocket. It might as well be on airplane mode as far as you're
00:23:27.360 | concerned until you take it out.
00:23:28.920 | But there is nothing more frustrating than trying to be present.
00:23:32.920 | And then it's like it's usually nothing.
00:23:36.480 | I mean, it's like the group text from the people that always are group texting.
00:23:40.680 | Exactly. It seems like with every business, you get to a certain size and the cracks
00:23:47.680 | start to emerge.
00:23:48.880 | Things that you used to do in a day are taking a week and you have too many manual
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00:26:48.760 | That kind of comes back to this idea of trying to do two things at once.
00:26:52.880 | Do you have a stance from all of the kind of studying you've done people you've talked to
00:26:57.760 | whether people can productively multitask and do email during a meeting or have a
00:27:03.080 | conversation while they clean the house or what's your stance there?
00:27:06.080 | So in general you can't do two related things at the same time if they're using kind of
00:27:13.360 | the same part of your brain.
00:27:15.040 | It will be very inefficient.
00:27:16.560 | You'll just wind up switching back and forth between the two.
00:27:19.600 | So if you can check email while you're in a meeting like why are you in that meeting?
00:27:24.560 | Like clearly you're not that needed in that meeting if it is possible for you to do this.
00:27:30.080 | So it would have been better on the front end to be like I don't need to be here or I only
00:27:33.800 | need to be here for the first 15 minutes or something like that rather than waste the
00:27:39.040 | time of acting like you're in two places at once.
00:27:43.600 | So that's for that.
00:27:46.120 | Now on the other hand some things it doesn't really matter for all that efficient.
00:27:49.480 | Like if you don't particularly care if you do the world's best job folding laundry and it
00:27:54.560 | would make it more pleasant to talk to a relative on the phone while you're doing it like
00:27:57.720 | that sounds great.
00:27:58.360 | Like that's a great way to multitask because yeah it doesn't matter what your towels look
00:28:02.920 | like you're not trying to go for the hotel crease in the in the in the towel folding.
00:28:08.760 | So by all means make it more pleasant.
00:28:11.200 | Or you know there's also ways we can kind of deepen our time by combining things usually
00:28:16.440 | something that you are intending to do anyway and bringing another person into it.
00:28:20.360 | So exercising with a friend for instance is a great way to nurture a relationship while
00:28:25.400 | also you know nurturing your health or running an errand with a kid like if you have
00:28:30.840 | multiple kids taking one on an errand is a great way to spend some one on one time
00:28:35.400 | together.
00:28:36.000 | So yeah these are just ways that you can do things with another person and so you are in
00:28:41.040 | fact multitasking but in a much better way than being in an email and being in an email
00:28:48.240 | haha being in a meeting and checking email at the same time.
00:28:51.280 | Sometimes I feel like I'm in an email all the time all the time.
00:28:55.520 | One one one tip I have for multitasking with a partner is make sure you're on the same
00:29:01.800 | page about how devoted you might be to a certain activity.
00:29:05.120 | I think for me I if I watch a television show for me I'm like I want to be all in I don't
00:29:11.000 | want to miss anything like I it's just really engaging and sometimes my wife is like I
00:29:17.000 | just want to have a show on and if I miss a piece of the show it's not a big deal.
00:29:21.360 | So she's fine if she sends a text to her family and it would drive me nuts because I was
00:29:26.360 | like no why aren't we paying attention and then I was like oh you're not trying to have
00:29:30.320 | the same experience with the television as I am and I think that's helped a bit though I
00:29:34.960 | still have these it's still tough but it's helped to say what are we doing together what
00:29:40.400 | are we trying to achieve make sure we're on the same page about what we want before kind
00:29:45.200 | of maybe judging what someone else is doing.
00:29:47.320 | So that's something that I'm continuing to work on but I think what was helpful was
00:29:51.640 | understanding what people were trying to get out of an experience before.
00:29:54.720 | Yeah I mean although in general I don't know I feel like if you're watching something for
00:30:00.520 | entertainment value I mean I'm kind of with you like you may as well get the full
00:30:03.440 | enjoyment of it whereas if the goal was spending time with you which is why she's
00:30:07.760 | sitting next to you then maybe watching a show together isn't the best way to do that.
00:30:11.560 | Like maybe you two should be interacting and so being clear on what that time is and
00:30:16.840 | why you are spending it doing what you're doing is in general a good idea.
00:30:20.080 | I mean yeah you want to be good about communicating these things.
00:30:23.000 | Yeah so let's say I wish I did I went through I said OK these are the things I want to
00:30:28.800 | prioritize this is my week.
00:30:30.280 | How do I start getting the things off that aren't important things like I have to
00:30:35.280 | prepare dinner I have to clean the house you know I have all like what are what are
00:30:39.080 | your tips for removing things that are not important.
00:30:42.120 | Yeah well when you don't think something is the best use of your time you have three
00:30:46.120 | options you can ignore it you can minimize it and you can outsource it.
00:30:49.960 | Now obviously outsourcing is going to involve other people.
00:30:54.360 | We do it all the time.
00:30:55.920 | I mean I I've gotten all sorts of people being like well I can't afford to have my
00:31:00.360 | house cleaned or whatever and that's fine.
00:31:02.360 | But if we recognize that we already outsource so much I mean most of us are not
00:31:07.000 | churning our own butter.
00:31:08.360 | We are not sewing our own clothes.
00:31:10.360 | So this is all just a matter of degree of what we choose to outsource versus what we
00:31:15.560 | do not then maybe people can approach it a bit more rationally and say like OK well
00:31:19.960 | what are the things that would be easiest to get to somebody else that would cost
00:31:25.720 | the least amount to do or if they have multiple family members for instance older
00:31:29.360 | children that may be a great idea for sharing the load there.
00:31:33.120 | But ignoring and minimizing are the two that really should be getting the bulk of
00:31:37.640 | the attention because there is so much that doesn't actually need to get done or
00:31:43.720 | doesn't need to get done to the standard that people might assume that it needs to
00:31:48.720 | you know and many of these things are we don't even think about them.
00:31:54.080 | It's just sort of how we've grown up with the stories we have about what we should
00:31:58.680 | be doing with our time.
00:32:00.200 | You know I see this all the time on time logs.
00:32:02.600 | People tell me like oh you know my mother always did a small load of laundry every
00:32:06.520 | day so I'm never behind on it.
00:32:08.120 | I'm like wow you are doing laundry every single day and in your mind that's what
00:32:12.560 | you should be doing.
00:32:13.400 | That's like what people do and not even question it or the idea that like small
00:32:18.680 | children need to be bathed nightly like if you want to great but they don't unless
00:32:24.640 | there's like a medical reason like you've been told it's absolutely critical for
00:32:28.280 | your child's skin condition or something like no most small children do not need
00:32:33.960 | that nightly.
00:32:34.520 | So if you don't like it and it's not something that helps them sleep and therefore
00:32:38.480 | you're doing don't get rid of that.
00:32:40.920 | It's fine.
00:32:41.600 | You don't have to do it.
00:32:42.760 | Packing lunches you know if kids are old enough to go to school where there's a
00:32:47.280 | cafeteria then they can either buy or they can pack their own lunch.
00:32:50.440 | That's not something you really need to be doing or you know in general various
00:32:58.000 | personal care things.
00:32:59.160 | I mean I'm glad we're not sharing too much of the video of this but I try to
00:33:02.640 | minimize you know how much personal care you do as well.
00:33:06.480 | And I'm sure some of your your female listeners may get more of this than maybe
00:33:10.920 | all your male listeners but many of the beauty standards aimed at women seem to
00:33:15.560 | assume that we just have all the time in the world to devote to these things.
00:33:19.760 | I occasionally read these articles in women's magazines like how to do an eight
00:33:24.080 | minute face and save tons of time like eight minutes really.
00:33:26.880 | Are we supposed to be spending eight minutes on makeup every day.
00:33:29.400 | Like how about how about 30 seconds.
00:33:31.400 | Can we can we just do that.
00:33:32.600 | Would that be better.
00:33:33.480 | You know like there's people who won't face the world unless their hair is
00:33:38.400 | perfectly coiffed and blown out and it just it takes time and you should really
00:33:43.640 | question like is that necessary.
00:33:45.520 | I think we've learned in the past year so many of us working from home that a lot
00:33:48.920 | of this is maybe less necessary than than we may have thought.
00:33:52.200 | So ignore and minimize as much as possible when something is not the best use of
00:33:57.160 | your time.
00:33:57.600 | One of the tips you mentioned at the end of your book was not to overthink dinner.
00:34:01.720 | And I feel like when I first read that my instinct was well yeah you could just
00:34:06.240 | order dinner or get microwave meals or but I'm I would be curious if that's the
00:34:11.760 | actual process you follow or or how do you have healthy meals without spending an
00:34:16.560 | hour sitting there preparing and chopping and all that.
00:34:18.920 | Yeah I this is another one that really gets me because I know that a lot of
00:34:23.240 | people grow up with the message that if you are going to get your family ready for
00:34:28.160 | the week you know you need to spend all Sunday like prepping meals for the week
00:34:31.400 | ahead and what happens is that people spend all this time preparing meals and
00:34:36.040 | then they still spend time getting them ready during the week.
00:34:39.080 | It's like because I got to thaw the lasagna and then let me make a salad to go
00:34:42.040 | with the lasagna that's premade.
00:34:43.440 | It's like you're still spending 20 30 minutes getting dinner on the table.
00:34:46.560 | It's like well you could actually do a whole dinner in 20 to 30 minutes.
00:34:50.000 | You can you know pick up a rotisserie chicken in a bag salad like that's that's
00:34:55.600 | made.
00:34:56.200 | You don't even have to do anything.
00:34:57.280 | But even if you're cooking I mean you could just throw some veggies and make an
00:35:03.360 | omelet with scrambled eggs like that's dinner you know that is like a quick
00:35:08.360 | cooking piece of salmon and some veggies like on a sheet pan in the oven 20
00:35:12.640 | minutes or so.
00:35:13.280 | Again not overthinking it.
00:35:15.840 | There are all sorts of incredibly simple meals and having a few of these available
00:35:21.960 | to you and always having the ingredients for these things on hand can make life a
00:35:27.440 | lot easier.
00:35:28.400 | Having rotating dinners like that the idea of Taco Tuesday is really brilliant if you
00:35:34.680 | think about it because if it's Tuesday you're having tacos and you can switch it
00:35:39.080 | up within that like I don't know this week it's chicken tacos next week it's steak
00:35:42.920 | tacos or shrimp tacos or whatever or you put different toppings on week to week and
00:35:47.280 | people choose their own.
00:35:48.120 | But you always have the stuff for tacos when you go to the grocery store and then
00:35:51.920 | you never think about it because it's Tuesday and you're having tacos and that
00:35:55.560 | removes a lot of mental energy and allows you to just do what else you're doing
00:36:00.440 | until it's time to have dinner.
00:36:01.960 | Yeah I think one of the best things to save time on dinner for us this past year
00:36:08.400 | where there's been a lot of cooking at home was we just found some meals that we're
00:36:12.920 | like you know what we could eat this every week and we just the coolest thing is not
00:36:16.680 | only does it take out the overhead of what are we eating this week to reduce that but
00:36:22.680 | also we've ended up just basically memorizing these recipes such that you can do
00:36:26.680 | it completely on autopilot.
00:36:28.080 | You're like I know exactly what needs to be chopped.
00:36:29.840 | I started to figure out oh well we need these ingredients for these two things so
00:36:33.560 | let's batch those together back at night after night.
00:36:36.320 | And then we also just started doubling every dinner so that we didn't have to think
00:36:40.280 | about lunch.
00:36:40.720 | Yeah leftovers are great and leftovers are wonderful.
00:36:44.200 | I said don't make all your meals on Sunday but whenever you are cooking something if
00:36:47.520 | you make enough for the next day to have lunch then you've solved two meals at once.
00:36:52.280 | So that's great.
00:36:52.840 | Yeah exactly.
00:36:54.520 | So OK so now we've kind of got this week that we're we know what we want to do.
00:37:00.680 | We've taken off the things we don't want to do.
00:37:02.680 | Actually I have one last one on the last one which is are there you know I know you
00:37:06.680 | said that minimizing and ignoring can be the most powerful but when it comes to
00:37:10.560 | outsourcing are there things that are less obvious that you think people could benefit
00:37:15.200 | from considering outsourcing.
00:37:17.760 | Well I think that food prep is something that might be more worth outsourcing than
00:37:24.880 | many people consider if it is a source of stress in your household like who's making
00:37:32.560 | dinner.
00:37:32.960 | If you have some sort of child care for instance like if this is the situation people
00:37:38.000 | are in because they have young kids and two working parents if perhaps a babysitter
00:37:43.000 | could start dinner that would save you various time you know before you get home from
00:37:47.760 | work or if the meals can be pre prepped during a toddler's naptime for instance that
00:37:53.640 | could be one way to take it off your plate so to speak for a few nights a week.
00:37:58.840 | So that's something that many people don't do but can in fact be a real benefit.
00:38:06.080 | I mean more than like having a cleaning service come in to dust your baseboards like I
00:38:10.320 | mean you can just not dust the baseboards.
00:38:12.560 | That's another idea whereas you do have to eat.
00:38:15.560 | So if that is the source of stress and you don't want to be doing takeout all the time
00:38:19.640 | it may actually be something that would be available as as part of child care or I mean
00:38:25.320 | heck hire somebody to come in and cook for you a couple of times a week.
00:38:27.920 | It might in fact be cheaper than restaurant meals and takeout if you run the numbers on
00:38:33.400 | it and and that could solve that problem.
00:38:36.880 | Yeah I just someone just sent me a site called chef.com but chef with an S and it's kind
00:38:44.160 | of like not quite meal delivery where you know you can do it on the night of you say
00:38:50.000 | OK next Friday I want to order from this person who lives you know in your kind of
00:38:55.080 | vicinity who's going to cook in this case like Persian food and you pick your meal and
00:39:00.320 | they deliver it at much less than you would pay from a restaurant because you're
00:39:04.240 | planning in advance they're going to make this for lots of people.
00:39:06.680 | It's actually person to person not necessarily restaurants and it's something that I've
00:39:13.320 | queued up to do next week is to have two or three meals delivered in advance and we'll
00:39:19.240 | see how that goes.
00:39:19.920 | Yeah that sounds like a great idea.
00:39:21.520 | Look forward to hearing how it works.
00:39:23.080 | That would certainly be an option for people as well.
00:39:25.000 | Yeah I'll link it out in the show notes because it is not spelled as it sounds.
00:39:30.600 | So if I've decided the things that I want to prioritize and I've decided the things
00:39:35.440 | that I want to deprioritize I've kind of have a plan.
00:39:38.200 | Is there a good time to do that planning.
00:39:41.160 | Is there a good way to stick to those routines.
00:39:43.720 | So I think that weekly planning will get most of the job done for most people.
00:39:51.280 | I plan my weeks on Fridays.
00:39:54.120 | I find that Friday is a really good week good day to make this happen because it tends to
00:39:59.640 | be slower.
00:40:00.200 | It's also really hard to start anything new on Friday.
00:40:04.480 | Kind of like drifting into the weekend by Friday afternoon.
00:40:07.480 | So we have a tendency to waste a lot of time on Fridays.
00:40:10.720 | Whereas if you spend the time planning what future you should be doing you turn what might
00:40:15.680 | be wasted time into some of your most productive minutes of the week.
00:40:19.320 | So Friday usually Friday afternoon I make a three category priority list for my upcoming
00:40:25.080 | week career relationships self the same three categories we talked about before.
00:40:29.920 | What would I most like to accomplish in these categories over the course of the next week.
00:40:34.320 | I make that list figure out roughly when those things can go look at what is already on my
00:40:40.560 | calendar for the upcoming week figure out any logistics that need to happen or if I
00:40:44.520 | want to ignore or minimize or get rid of something how I could do that for what is
00:40:49.080 | already on my calendar.
00:40:50.520 | And this whole process takes 20 minutes maybe.
00:40:53.960 | And I say that as somebody with a family of two working parents five kids a dog a lot of
00:41:00.200 | logistics around here I think you know many people are like oh I'm too tired on Friday to
00:41:04.400 | plan it's like really.
00:41:05.280 | Like what do you think it looks like.
00:41:06.600 | It's not running a marathon.
00:41:09.520 | Like we're talking 20 minutes max where you think about your upcoming week.
00:41:13.400 | But if you do this week after week then you start to get a much better sense of control of
00:41:19.440 | your time like you know what is coming up you know you have a plan to deal with it and
00:41:24.000 | that can make your weekends far better too because part of that Sunday night blues
00:41:28.200 | people experience is that they know there's a lot of stuff waiting for the Monday like
00:41:32.440 | professionally probably personally too and they don't know what they're going to do about
00:41:36.040 | it so their brain is going over and over again trying to figure out what am I going to do
00:41:39.680 | about it.
00:41:40.000 | But if you know because you had a plan that you made on Friday then you can relax.
00:41:43.760 | And what about weekends.
00:41:46.560 | It was really exciting to read because I'd never done the math that there are 60 hours
00:41:52.120 | between cracking a beer on Friday afternoon and going to work on Monday.
00:41:55.960 | Do you plan those weekends on Friday night or are they part of the previous week's plan.
00:42:00.280 | How do you make weekends the best they can.
00:42:02.680 | So usually they are part of the previous Friday.
00:42:06.480 | So I kind of view my Friday planning as mostly looking to the upcoming week the upcoming
00:42:13.040 | week being Monday through that Sunday.
00:42:15.440 | However because I am planning on Friday it allows me to take a second glance at what
00:42:20.320 | is on the calendar for that upcoming weekend.
00:42:22.320 | And so if I haven't sorted something through that's a last minute chance to do it or if
00:42:27.920 | the weather has changed or something new has come up that allows me to also take a
00:42:32.240 | secondary look at the weekend that is just starting.
00:42:35.120 | And you know other people may not need to do it that way again because of the five
00:42:41.200 | children two working parents like there I cannot let the weekend just be until last
00:42:49.120 | minute Friday night because there might be three children in different sporting activities
00:42:55.520 | at different places.
00:42:56.400 | And if there's only two drivers well we've got to sort something out.
00:42:59.520 | So other people might not need to do that but I do.
00:43:03.280 | So that's that that's where that comes in.
00:43:06.080 | But I would say you do need to plan your weekends.
00:43:08.960 | I think a lot of people are like oh planning weekend that's totally a contradiction in
00:43:14.240 | terms that sounds terrible horrible.
00:43:15.920 | I don't want to do that.
00:43:16.640 | OK that is fine.
00:43:17.760 | But if you just think of a few what I call anchor events like things that would be exciting
00:43:25.280 | to you to do over the course of the weekend and when roughly you think those should go
00:43:30.880 | like three things over the course of the weekend that would genuinely excite you or
00:43:34.960 | rejuvenate you you will have so much better weekends because the rest of the time can
00:43:39.200 | be whatever I'm not nothing it's impossible to do nothing you'll do something it just
00:43:43.200 | may not be what you would have chosen if you thought about it.
00:43:45.440 | But if you know you have these three anchor things in your weekend you will hit Monday
00:43:50.720 | feeling like yeah that was great.
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00:45:04.080 | Do you all remember episode 122 when I spoke to chef David Chang about leveling up your
00:45:11.360 | cooking at home?
00:45:12.560 | If not definitely go back and give it a listen but one of his top hacks was using the microwave
00:45:17.840 | more.
00:45:18.320 | I'll admit I was a skeptic at first but after getting a full set of microwave cookware
00:45:23.360 | from any day I'm a total convert and I'm excited to partner with them for this episode.
00:45:28.000 | Any day is glass cookware specifically designed to make delicious food from scratch in the
00:45:33.040 | microwave and honestly using it feels like a kitchen cheat code because it speeds up
00:45:38.320 | and simplifies the process so much.
00:45:40.800 | The cookware is 100% plastic free and you can cook serve store and reheat all in the
00:45:46.640 | same dish that happens to be dishwasher freezer and oven safe too and if you need a recipe
00:45:52.160 | suggestion to kick off your any day adventure I highly recommend David Chang salmon rice
00:45:57.360 | it is so good and if you haven't checked out the matte black IO collection they launched
00:46:03.200 | last year you have to check it out.
00:46:05.600 | So to get 15% off our new favorite cookware go to all the hacks dot com slash any day
00:46:12.320 | again that's all the hacks dot com slash any day for 15% off.
00:46:19.120 | I just want to thank you quick for listening to and supporting the show your support is
00:46:23.840 | what keeps this show going to get all of the urls codes deals and discounts from our partners
00:46:30.160 | you can go to all the hacks dot com slash deals so please consider supporting those
00:46:35.680 | who support us.
00:46:36.560 | Yeah you mentioned putting together your list of either a hundred or a thousand dreams I
00:46:41.760 | guess it depends on the person on how many they want a thousand thousand probably too
00:46:44.880 | many yeah but how I found that doing that makes it easier to plan the weekend so having
00:46:55.600 | a list of things that you want to do that are exciting whether that's restaurants to
00:46:58.800 | go try now that you know we're opening things back up whether that's hikes you want to go
00:47:03.680 | on or a museum to see and so I love that idea I started batching mine together and separating
00:47:09.760 | it from what's usually often thought of as like my bucket list which is like I want to
00:47:14.160 | go you know to Greece which is not something I'm going to do next weekend yeah well the
00:47:20.240 | upside of it's a list of a hundred dreams which was it was an exercise shared with me
00:47:24.080 | by a career coach great many years ago and a lot of people have really responded well
00:47:28.000 | to this idea you can do a thousand that'd be great too but people will find that even
00:47:31.600 | a hundred is really really hard because the bucket list that you're talking about it is
00:47:36.160 | stuff like go to Greece and then you get like 20 places you want to visit and then you're
00:47:39.760 | like huh okay now what so with a hundred you have to keep going and so you can list like
00:47:45.520 | the dozen local restaurants you want to try and then you're still only at 32 items and
00:47:49.760 | so then you're like okay well here's these 15 state parks in you know within two hour
00:47:54.800 | drive that I want to go see and you're only at 47 so like you still have to keep coming
00:47:59.600 | back to this list over and over again and asking friends and family like what they recommend
00:48:04.640 | but having made this long and unedited list of anything you might want to do does make
00:48:10.400 | future planning easier because then you say like oh well we do have half a weekend day
00:48:16.960 | on this upcoming Saturday and oh hey I want to do strawberry picking with the kids and
00:48:21.840 | it's strawberry season we should do that right whereas if you haven't articulated that desire
00:48:27.920 | it may not occur to you to be like oh yes we should go strawberry picking with this
00:48:32.720 | few hours we have until it's you know strawberry season has come and gone
00:48:37.120 | yeah one one other weekend I guess hack that I've started using already is you said if
00:48:44.480 | you use weekends for chores it's less ideal because if you use weekdays for chores you'll
00:48:49.760 | spend less time on them because you just have less time I thought this is great so we just
00:48:53.760 | started saying let's do all our chores on the weekdays and then they won't expand to
00:48:57.920 | fill the entire weekend so that hack I thought is worth sharing okay good well I'm glad you
00:49:02.400 | like that I mean yeah if you have the ability to you know well obviously people can order
00:49:06.640 | groceries too but if you're going to go to a store I mean there's nobody in the store
00:49:10.240 | at like 9 30 on Wednesday so if that's an option you have young kids one parent stays
00:49:15.120 | home with them and the other goes to the store like you can be in and out so quick because
00:49:18.960 | there's no line nothing going on there so that that and everything is stocked and everything
00:49:23.760 | is stocked that's true too I you know yeah I've had I've gone at like 5 a.m once when
00:49:29.680 | I was up early with the baby and it was like this this is the magical time at the 24-hour
00:49:34.480 | store where everything is there I'm the only person here it's great but yeah doing things
00:49:39.680 | at unorthodox times when you if you think about when would everybody do something and
00:49:43.920 | then do it at another time you can generally save a lot of time because you won't be having
00:49:48.240 | to deal with everyone else being there same thing with like you know throw a load of laundry
00:49:53.040 | in in the morning move it in to the dryer if you're working at home do it at lunch but
00:49:57.440 | if you're not just do it when you get home from work later in the day it's like do that
00:50:00.720 | twice a week and then you don't have to spend your Saturday by the laundry machine and that's
00:50:04.960 | great you can just do quick touch-ups if you are making dinner for instance and you're
00:50:11.840 | cleaning the kitchen like you know say okay we're gonna get this kitchen clean in say
00:50:16.720 | the next 15 minutes and just do a quick sweep through of everything else the common areas
00:50:20.960 | do that once or twice a week the extra stuff and again you don't have to spend the whole
00:50:24.800 | weekend cleaning as well while you are maintaining at least a reasonably clean home yeah people
00:50:31.840 | have very different standards of what constitutes clean and if you are a person for whom it has to
00:50:36.240 | be spotless like you just have to acknowledge that either that's going to take a ton of time
00:50:39.920 | or a ton of money whereas if you can allow yourself to lower your standards a bit then
00:50:44.560 | that can save a lot of time and money so you know figure out what's worth it i thought that tip was
00:50:49.040 | great i proposed lowering our housekeeping standards but it did not go well there there
00:50:54.880 | are certain yes gendered aspects to this it is often harder for women to let go of housekeeping
00:51:02.720 | standards because it has been drilled into our heads that that is what people will judge us on
00:51:07.280 | and i even once heard this uh articulated that somebody had had been told like you think you're
00:51:13.360 | such hot stuff but there is dust under your beds like i just love that like who who would say that
00:51:20.640 | but somebody did to somebody it was just but that's what people have in the back of their
00:51:25.280 | minds so you know it might help to realize that many of us don't have all that many other people
00:51:31.680 | in our house these days anyway and if you were going to have people in your house you could
00:51:36.080 | deal with it like you could do a quick hour blitz and and get through like you'd probably have
00:51:40.560 | noticed like not that many of us have these situations where judgmental people are showing
00:51:45.280 | up at our house with no notice to come inspect under our beds so for most of us there's no home
00:51:51.760 | inspection coming up like a lot of people be like oh i can't go to i have to clean the house before
00:51:56.080 | i go to bed at night it's like well why you know is there an 11 p.m home inspection like no there
00:52:00.560 | is no 11 p.m home inspection nobody is coming to give you demerits for having toys on the floor
00:52:05.760 | and in fact those toys will just come out again next morning so you'll never get that oh yes they
00:52:10.560 | come out every day every day so i feel like and maybe this is a result of you know a young child
00:52:18.640 | in the house but sometimes at the end of the week my wife and i are like what do we want to do this
00:52:22.880 | weekend and we're like i just don't want to do anything i feel like we did so much and we didn't
00:52:27.520 | stop for a second what do you do when you have those feelings or how have you avoided having
00:52:32.960 | those feelings well the one thing i would say is that having time at home with no plans with a
00:52:39.680 | small child is often way more exhausting than getting out and doing something and i have learned
00:52:47.280 | this in many cases the hard way that if there are a bunch of kids arguing and fighting and throwing
00:52:52.880 | things around all saturday morning it feels hellish whereas if we go to the zoo people have
00:52:59.040 | other things to look at to direct their energy and rather than punching your sister you can look at
00:53:04.320 | the monkeys and then you come home at lunch and then people can have quiet time afterwards because
00:53:09.600 | they're tired or the people who nap can nap and then you know go out again at 3 34 do something
00:53:15.040 | little then and then the day is over and that is a much better way to manage your energy than facing
00:53:20.720 | like 12 hours of nothingness on a saturday which won't be nothing it'll be you guys chasing around
00:53:27.280 | the 10 month old and trying to keep the 10 month old from sticking up was it a boy or girl sorry
00:53:33.280 | a girl a girl from sticking a fork in her eye and then you know be like well i i had i was with her
00:53:39.840 | more during this amount of time and you were with her more for this amount of time yeah it's just
00:53:44.000 | have a plan it it's so much better for managing energy so we talked a lot about weekends one of
00:53:51.520 | the books that i did read before this was about what the most successful people do before breakfast
00:53:56.880 | could you talk a little bit about what you've learned about mornings and why they can be so
00:54:01.600 | valuable so mornings are a really good time for getting stuff done for people who have
00:54:08.880 | traditional in the office jobs and particularly who have families who are going to need and want
00:54:14.640 | to see them after work morning is another chunk of the day that can be discretionary time there's
00:54:20.960 | that time and then there's the late at night time the problem is that the late at night time is
00:54:25.600 | harder to use for certain sorts of activities like most people are not going to leave the
00:54:29.760 | house and go for a run at 9 p.m most people do not have the energy to write a chapter in their
00:54:35.120 | novel at 10 p.m now there are some people who do that's great more power to them most people are
00:54:39.920 | not going to be able to do that and that's why we tend to do the more low energy stuff at night
00:54:44.160 | whereas morning most people have more discipline and energy and focus in the morning again not
00:54:51.360 | everybody but most people and so if that sounds like it might be you figuring out that there is
00:54:58.640 | something that you would like to do that life has a way of crowding out maybe you can make time for
00:55:04.400 | it in the morning and so i kept seeing this on time logs like if there was somebody who had a
00:55:09.040 | huge job and a family they were raising and then they also you know exercised five times a week
00:55:14.720 | or they also you know had a great meditation practice or a spiritual practice they were
00:55:19.440 | doing frequently or who you know was doing creative writing or some sort of hobby like that
00:55:24.160 | it tended to be that they were doing it first thing in the morning and and so i started seeing
00:55:28.320 | this over and over again on time logs and decided i had to investigate further and have you had
00:55:34.160 | mornings yourself i know i have where you wake up and you're like gosh i wanted to get up at six i
00:55:38.560 | just feel awful like can you jump start that productivity or is that a day where you just say
00:55:44.080 | today i'm just going to give myself another hour of sleep well usually that's a decision that could
00:55:48.720 | be made the night before because the reason you feel bad waking up at 6 a.m often has to do with
00:55:54.000 | what time you went to bed the night before so it this is just math like if you need seven and a
00:55:59.360 | half hours of sleep and you're in a position which again you may not be with the 10 month old baby
00:56:03.760 | but let's say that's not part of your life at the moment you you know if you're waking up at six and
00:56:09.440 | you went to bed at 11 30 well that's six and a half hours so that explains why you are tired at
00:56:15.680 | 6 a.m whereas if you went to bed at 10 30 then you would have gotten your seven and a half hours and
00:56:20.080 | you probably would feel pretty good at 6 a.m but you can then make that decision the night before
00:56:24.960 | if you have any sort of control over when you can get up in the morning it's like well i didn't get
00:56:28.560 | to bed till 11 30 so i actually do need to sleep until closer to seven if that is at all possible
00:56:34.560 | in my life so i really do think that that the wake-up decision should be a function of when
00:56:39.520 | you went to bed as opposed to being like no no no i have to do x at 6 a.m and then you'll just crash
00:56:46.880 | the next night and not be able to do anything too i mean people people will get to the amount of
00:56:50.880 | sleep they need the question is whether it is disorderly or orderly and it's much better in
00:56:56.000 | our life if it's a more orderly matter yeah and and part of recreating mornings which is something
00:57:02.320 | i'm kind of trying to do it's like okay we're going to introduce exercise that's a new routine
00:57:07.760 | not that i have an exercise but in the mornings as frequently and consistently any tips for when
00:57:13.680 | you're trying to introduce new habits well start small i also think that for many people it would
00:57:19.840 | help to not view the morning routine as something they need to do every single day and and there may
00:57:25.360 | be people who disagree with me because they're like it's a routine but i've found over the years
00:57:29.120 | of talking to people that many people do not do their same morning routines on say saturday and
00:57:34.160 | sunday and they don't do it on vacations and if you're not doing it on those days then it isn't
00:57:38.960 | in fact a daily routine it is a five times a week routine or maybe even a four times a week if
00:57:43.840 | they're only doing it monday to thursday because friday is different for some reason so a lot of
00:57:47.760 | these people with daily routines i'm putting daily in my quote marks um are doing it four times a
00:57:53.680 | week so if you want to aim for three to four times a week that's great that can still be count as a
00:57:59.360 | routine and then that also makes it possible for people who need to trade off with a partner in
00:58:04.560 | terms of like kid coverage in the morning like you know i'm gonna exercise three times a week
00:58:09.120 | in the morning you're gonna exercise two to three times a week in the morning it's fine that you can
00:58:12.560 | trade off for each other start small like do something that you will enjoy and that you will
00:58:19.040 | stick with so if you hate running don't choose running as your morning routine exercise because
00:58:27.600 | you will not get out of bed to do it whereas if you love it then you will if you'd prefer to do a
00:58:33.360 | exercise video or lift weights or you know get on your peloton bike or maybe there's a class you'd
00:58:38.560 | love to go to at 6 00 a.m two days a week like those are the sorts of things people will stick
00:58:42.960 | with but if it's like i have to exercise and i have to do x that i hate but i'm just gonna power
00:58:47.680 | through it it's like okay well you will for a few days and then something will happen to derail you
00:58:53.280 | and you won't get back into it because you don't want to do it yeah one of the things that i
00:58:57.440 | think gets a lot of people in the morning is you know your phone's right there and all of a sudden
00:59:02.320 | you're looking at your email and you're not getting out of bed to do the exercise you you
00:59:06.640 | even love and want so one thing that i've tried to do and it works sometimes and then i fall out
00:59:11.840 | of it but is i just try to plug my phone in somewhere where i have to get out of bed to grab
00:59:16.320 | it it doesn't have to be the i leave it in the kitchen but it's like i have to stand up and once
00:59:21.600 | i'm standing up i'm like i should probably use this time to go on a run i'm already out of bed
00:59:26.640 | yeah um but the nights where the phone just ends up on the nightstand the next morning i feel like
00:59:32.320 | i instantly lose 20 or 30 minutes yeah that can definitely happen you know and it's so easy to
00:59:38.240 | look and check so you know if you need to check the weather but still you're just like oh but
00:59:44.240 | it's right there i could just look so easily so yeah doing as much as you can to keep yourself
00:59:50.960 | on your routine probably whatever it is can be dealt with after you've gone and exercised for
00:59:55.120 | 20 30 minutes too so you might even just stick the phone in your pocket in case there's an
00:59:59.760 | emergency but not look at it yeah and you know we talked about 168 hours a lot of them are sleeping
01:00:06.320 | a lot of them hopefully we can redefine uh after this but a lot of them are at work and i'm curious
01:00:12.720 | are there especially in light of you know lots of work from home and your new book the new corner
01:00:18.080 | office last year are there they're kind of common tips people should take to work with them for
01:00:23.200 | better productively managing their work days well i think being mindful about time is important for
01:00:29.680 | leisure time and it's important for work time now in terms of work time people do think about
01:00:34.640 | their time because you know we have appointments we have to do we have things we have to accomplish
01:00:38.560 | and those can make time feel bigger than it is which is one of the reasons that people think
01:00:43.280 | they work more hours than they tend to but on any given day think like well what would make for a
01:00:49.920 | good day like what three to five things do i really need to accomplish today that can be your
01:00:55.440 | to-do list for the day and then when you've done those things you know you've had a good day i
01:01:00.160 | mean maybe other things happen maybe other things don't but by setting limited but well-chosen goals
01:01:06.400 | for any given day you can make progress and you can feel accomplished and then you know when things
01:01:14.320 | will be done because you view your to-do list as a contract with yourself i mean i think that's one
01:01:20.000 | of the key things is that we do each day what we set out to do and yes stuff comes up which is why
01:01:25.440 | you have to make the list of things you absolutely will get to very very short but when you choose
01:01:30.400 | them well then you will make progress yeah i just listened to the episode of your podcast where you
01:01:37.600 | talk about email and and i saw that you you know wrote a review on in the wall street journal for
01:01:42.880 | uh cal newport's a world without email book i feel like email like i know you do is is kind of
01:01:49.280 | this thing that sucks up all time are there a couple quick tips or hacks about how to rethink
01:01:55.360 | about email so it doesn't end up eating your whole day yeah um i enjoyed cal's book i mean i think we
01:02:01.840 | are not going to have a world without email but i think a world with a lot less email is within
01:02:06.800 | our ability to get and some of this is organizational if you work for yourself
01:02:11.680 | then you can set your own parameters on it i tend to just not check it for a while if i don't want
01:02:16.400 | to check it and that's fine nothing's really you know nobody can do anything to me but yeah if you
01:02:21.440 | work in an organization you really need to set these parameters as a group and come up with ways
01:02:27.040 | to not be sending each other random emails back and forth constantly maybe it's that you do short
01:02:33.520 | check-ins on the status of things maybe it's that you use project management software maybe it's
01:02:38.720 | that you tell people to pick up the phone it's crazy idea but that's often a much more efficient
01:02:44.720 | way to get a bit of information than having like a 12 email back and forth chain yeah yeah i i'm
01:02:51.840 | trying to reduce my email time because it's just it's taking over okay last big thing i want to
01:02:58.400 | talk about so i have this 10 month old and you've gone through five children and i i know that you've
01:03:04.160 | learned a lot is there obviously i feel like i've lost a lot of time and i've gained a lot of
01:03:10.080 | happiness uh but are there hacks you have for managing time with kids that a new parent should
01:03:15.520 | really be thinking about well i think it's the same mindfulness that we've been talking in all
01:03:22.320 | other aspects of life that you think about your days ahead of time you think about what would make
01:03:28.960 | for good additions to your life like things you want to do with your kids when you can make those
01:03:34.000 | happen and it's you know i think entering the kids worlds from time to time and certainly as
01:03:41.680 | as they get older you start to see more of the things that they are really interested in and it
01:03:47.200 | doesn't take much time but having little bits of time that you are devoted fully to those things
01:03:52.720 | that they are interested in can be some of the more fun parts of of parenting i've done every
01:04:00.480 | summer i try to do what we call mommy days with each of my kids i take my older kids each kid
01:04:05.200 | gets a one on one day with me we go do something that the kid really wanted to do and it's it's
01:04:11.520 | just so pleasant because they're not fighting with some other kid about like who gets to do what and
01:04:15.840 | we i wanted to do this but we did this and so now i have to do this and so you can't do it all the
01:04:20.640 | time i mean i wouldn't claim that people who are only children it's like all of life is like that
01:04:24.480 | because it isn't because their parents get like exhausted with just dealing with them but when we
01:04:29.280 | are managing a crowd like we are uh having just little bits of time focused on each kid can be
01:04:35.840 | great and i sort of try to think about my weeks that way too like if i've built in some small
01:04:40.480 | chunk of time with each kid one-on-one with them and if i have then it's been good so so trying to
01:04:47.040 | take advantage of that as much as possible yeah and the last thing you said about kids that really
01:04:52.720 | stuck with me is that part of making over your mornings has been investing time to make your
01:04:57.040 | children more self-reliant are there are there tips for helping make children more self-reliant
01:05:02.240 | and they might they might not be relevant at 10 months but as my 10 month old is not going to be
01:05:06.400 | that self-reliant you shouldn't shouldn't hold it against her but but as she gets older things
01:05:12.240 | you've done that have helped there well i think just expecting them to do they i think the more
01:05:19.520 | you kind of do for your kids the more they then expect you to do that for them so i'm certainly
01:05:26.320 | not the kind of person who chooses my kids outfits i feel like you know that's your business your
01:05:31.680 | fashion statements not my problem it has nothing to do with me if you wear something like you know
01:05:37.040 | i mean i'll stop you if it's 30 degrees out and you're leaving without a coat but
01:05:41.840 | other than that kind of kind of your call having kids learn how to make lunches for instance when
01:05:47.760 | we were doing hybrid and virtual schooling for a long time there's definitely lessons on how you
01:05:52.640 | get your own food because i can't make lunch for everyone every day you know we're working on
01:05:58.320 | various things in terms of getting clothes put away and helping with household chores and you
01:06:04.320 | know managing your own school work i definitely think that's something that you just have to
01:06:09.760 | decide as a parent like i already did sixth grade i don't need to do sixth grade again and if things
01:06:17.920 | go wrong in sixth grade it won't be the end of the world and they will learn from it so that's
01:06:23.760 | generally been my philosophy hopefully it won't go horribly wrong but we'll see that's the one
01:06:31.120 | thing i mean you know i i don't like to give a whole lot of parenting advice i'd have to say
01:06:35.680 | because i i feel like it's just asking for your your kid to do something terrible and it'd be like
01:06:43.360 | that person claimed to be a parenting expert and you have no control over it ultimately i mean
01:06:49.680 | people are their own people and they make their own choices in life ultimately and so you just
01:06:56.880 | have to you know do your best to make sure everything goes well that's what we're trying
01:07:02.320 | any other fun life or or money or any kind of hacks that you love that you want to share
01:07:09.440 | i know you said it's not about getting back those five ten minutes here and there but it is something
01:07:14.560 | that i know listeners love to hear uh any tricks to to feel more optimized and efficient well one
01:07:21.440 | thing i would say is that hunting for lost items feels like the biggest waste of time in the world
01:07:28.000 | so as much as possible having a set location for anything you use frequently and if it is
01:07:34.800 | ever found not in that location it needs to be immediately returned so all my kids shoes
01:07:41.760 | backpacks coats sports equipment are in the mud room in certain you know they don't have to be
01:07:48.960 | nicely lined up this isn't something you'll see on pinterest but if shoes are ever found elsewhere
01:07:53.680 | they are immediately returned there and so that way you're not spending 10 minutes every morning
01:07:58.400 | looking for shoes which if we were doing would just make life impossible so you know find a
01:08:06.080 | home for spots find a home for things keep them in that spot train everyone that it never goes
01:08:10.960 | anywhere else and hopefully you'll spend a lot of less time looking for stuff great this has been
01:08:16.560 | fantastic thank you so much for being here where can people read more learn more about you and
01:08:22.960 | everything you're learning yeah well please come visit my website which is laura vanderkam.com you
01:08:28.000 | can learn about my various books there and about my podcasts i have before breakfast which is an
01:08:33.040 | every weekday morning short productivity tip help you take your day from great to awesome i also
01:08:37.600 | have a podcast i co-host with sarah hart unger called best of both worlds about the intersection
01:08:42.400 | of work and family from the perspective of two people who really enjoy both so that airs every
01:08:48.160 | tuesday awesome thank you for being here thanks so much for having me i really hope you enjoyed
01:08:56.720 | that and thank you for listening i've been tracking my time for the past week and it's been really eye
01:09:01.520 | opening i'm already starting to minimize ignore and outsource things to be more intentional
01:09:06.400 | unfortunately that means more time for all the hacks so i'm excited to see where this goes
01:09:11.840 | if you're enjoying the show you can always help out by sharing an episode with a friend
01:09:15.920 | or leaving a five-star review i know i say it every time but the more this show grows the more
01:09:20.720 | incredible guests i'll be able to have on and the more hacks we can all learn together so thank you
01:09:25.600 | in advance for all your help if you want to get in touch i'm chris at all the hacks.com and at
01:09:30.960 | hutchins on twitter see you next time
01:09:43.920 | you
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