ATHLLC1501924500

00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)

00:00:01.680 | - Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks,

00:00:04.840 | a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.

00:00:07.720 | I'm your host, Chris Hutchins,

00:00:09.000 | and here with me in the studio today is Liz Moody,

00:00:11.760 | making her second appearance on the show.

00:00:14.120 | Liz is a writer, cookbook author,

00:00:16.000 | and host of the Liz Moody Podcast.

00:00:17.740 | And she has a new book that's filled

00:00:19.420 | with so many great science-backed tactics

00:00:22.200 | to level up your health, happiness,

00:00:24.240 | success, and relationships.

00:00:26.000 | And I'm so excited to dive into a lot of them today.

00:00:29.240 | The book is called "100 Ways to Change Your Life."

00:00:31.640 | It comes out next week, but you can pre-order it now.

00:00:34.640 | And I am so excited for this conversation.

00:00:36.860 | So let's get into it right after this.

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00:01:55.640 | (upbeat music)

00:01:57.180 | - Liz, thanks for being here.

00:01:58.580 | - Thank you so much for having me again.

00:02:00.620 | - Again, I know, this is two times,

00:02:02.840 | except now you have a book that is new.

00:02:04.960 | You've had books before.

00:02:06.000 | I'm a little jealous.

00:02:06.840 | I'm working on one book, you've already got how many?

00:02:09.240 | - Three.

00:02:10.080 | Two are cookbooks, and one of the cookbooks

00:02:11.400 | is about popsicles, so maybe that's a half a book.

00:02:13.800 | It's a little baby book.

00:02:14.680 | - So, two and a half books?

00:02:15.560 | - Two and a half books.

00:02:16.400 | - Well, this is a great one.

00:02:17.360 | I didn't have the previous books.

00:02:18.820 | I have this one.

00:02:19.660 | I got to read this one,

00:02:20.720 | and I'm really excited you're here

00:02:22.160 | because a lot of what your book's about

00:02:23.940 | is a lot of what my audience loves,

00:02:25.920 | which is finding tactical ways to improve your life

00:02:29.080 | across a bunch of verticals

00:02:30.400 | that you can do without spending a fortune.

00:02:32.120 | - 100%.

00:02:32.960 | I feel like I read so many personal growth books,

00:02:35.120 | and I'll read it, and I'll get like a good, warm feeling

00:02:37.360 | while I'm reading it, and then I close the book,

00:02:38.960 | and immediately I'm like, what do I actually do?

00:02:41.840 | I feel just, what next?

00:02:43.440 | What now?

00:02:44.280 | And I really wanted to create a book

00:02:45.320 | that answered that question,

00:02:46.560 | and that gave people the science

00:02:48.320 | behind the tools that they need,

00:02:49.740 | and then the real tactical tips

00:02:51.520 | that they can apply today to change their lives.

00:02:53.920 | - So there's 100.

00:02:54.760 | We don't have time to get through all of them.

00:02:56.160 | I tried, by the way.

00:02:57.040 | Liz said, no, we have to limit it.

00:02:58.240 | We can't go through all 100.

00:02:59.800 | - I was just trying to make it a good use of your time

00:03:02.160 | and your audience's time.

00:03:03.200 | - In the book, you break it into health, happiness,

00:03:05.400 | success, and relationships,

00:03:07.200 | and I wanted to run through each

00:03:08.920 | and talk about a few of the things I pulled out

00:03:11.040 | and get you to dive a little deeper,

00:03:12.800 | share some of that science behind it,

00:03:14.680 | and if people want the rest, obviously there's a book.

00:03:16.600 | We're not gonna get through all 100.

00:03:17.680 | I was trying to think of where to start,

00:03:19.000 | and I don't really have a formula for where to start,

00:03:21.240 | so I just picked success.

00:03:22.440 | - Okay, let's start with success.

00:03:23.800 | When it comes to goals and building habits,

00:03:25.960 | I want to talk about the fresh start effect

00:03:27.320 | 'cause it feels like a good fresh start

00:03:28.640 | for the conversation.

00:03:29.520 | - So this is from research from Dr. Katie Milkman.

00:03:31.720 | Katie Milkman is a podcast guest that I've had on.

00:03:34.240 | She's a behavioral scientist from Wharton

00:03:36.320 | at University of Pennsylvania,

00:03:37.600 | and she is probably the most cited guest by other guests,

00:03:40.640 | so other guests come on and they're like,

00:03:42.040 | oh, according to Dr. Katie Milkman's research,

00:03:44.040 | and she's shared so much research

00:03:46.360 | that I've put into this book

00:03:47.360 | because she works on habits and goals and behavior change,

00:03:50.560 | and her stuff is so actionable in the moment.

00:03:52.920 | - So the fresh start effect is really simple,

00:03:54.960 | and it's the idea that research shows

00:03:56.880 | that we view our life in this really narrative way.

00:03:59.720 | So we view ourselves as books,

00:04:01.560 | and then different moments in our lives,

00:04:03.600 | different periods of our lives are like chapters in a book,

00:04:06.160 | and when we turn the page,

00:04:08.720 | and we can turn the page, start a new chapter

00:04:10.800 | by starting a new job, moving to a new house,

00:04:13.760 | New Year's Eve would be turning a huge page.

00:04:16.440 | We feel like we're not the same person

00:04:18.840 | that we were the chapter before,

00:04:20.400 | and thus, we're not stuck with the same habits

00:04:23.040 | and behaviors that we had the chapter before.

00:04:25.200 | So it's really, really helpful

00:04:27.600 | if you're trying to make a behavior change

00:04:29.520 | to identify a fresh start in your life

00:04:31.760 | so that you can be like, okay,

00:04:33.120 | in the last house, I didn't work out, I didn't meditate,

00:04:36.280 | I was on my phone way too much,

00:04:37.800 | but now that I've moved in this new house,

00:04:40.280 | I'm not that same person anymore.

00:04:41.720 | I'm not gonna have those same behaviors.

00:04:43.560 | Literally picking up my book is a fresh start

00:04:45.680 | because you are not the same person

00:04:47.560 | that you were before you had this book,

00:04:49.600 | and knowing that science is on your side,

00:04:51.600 | if you just have that awareness,

00:04:53.040 | the person that I was before maybe couldn't stick

00:04:54.640 | to this habit, couldn't achieve this goal,

00:04:56.240 | but I'm not them anymore, so I can.

00:04:58.320 | Any time in your life that you can identify,

00:05:00.560 | like I want to be a different person than I was before,

00:05:03.720 | what's a fresh start that I can identify here to begin that?

00:05:06.560 | It's also why it's great to start new habits and routines

00:05:09.040 | on a Monday, on a first of the month,

00:05:11.200 | on a New Year's Eve, things like that.

00:05:12.960 | You can give yourself a little bit of a push.

00:05:15.080 | - I love this, and another Milkman one.

00:05:17.720 | So we have this fresh start, we're ready to go.

00:05:19.280 | I have a problem procrastinating all the time.

00:05:21.400 | So let's talk a little bit about that

00:05:22.480 | 'cause I think that's another one that she brought to you.

00:05:25.200 | - So one of my favorite tips for procrastination,

00:05:27.440 | I have a bunch of tips for procrastination

00:05:29.160 | because it is something that I struggle with really deeply,

00:05:31.200 | but one of my favorite ones from Dr. Milkman

00:05:33.480 | is called temptation bundling,

00:05:35.160 | and basically it's the idea that you take tasks

00:05:37.200 | that you don't want to do and you bundle them

00:05:38.880 | with the thing that you absolutely love the most.

00:05:41.440 | So for me, I cannot make myself work out for the life of me.

00:05:44.400 | I hate it so much.

00:05:45.640 | I work out in the morning and I'll literally stall

00:05:47.360 | on the entire rest of my day

00:05:48.640 | because I cannot convince myself to do a workout.

00:05:51.000 | But I save my very favorite podcasts

00:05:53.840 | for the time that I work out,

00:05:55.000 | and I only get to listen to those podcasts

00:05:57.320 | when I am working out.

00:05:58.440 | So I have bundled those things,

00:06:00.000 | I've made the workout more appealing,

00:06:01.680 | and I'm thus more likely to do it,

00:06:03.440 | to not procrastinate on it, and to actually get it done.

00:06:05.760 | So you can do that with anything you want to do in your life

00:06:07.640 | that you have a hard time doing.

00:06:08.840 | It can be like a little treat

00:06:10.600 | that you only give yourself when you're doing paperwork

00:06:13.120 | or taxes or something like that.

00:06:15.160 | I like to watch my favorite Real Housewives

00:06:17.200 | I've gotten really into Real Housewives recently.

00:06:18.720 | For the first time in my life,

00:06:19.560 | it's like an exciting adventure for me.

00:06:21.240 | I only get to watch it when I'm folding laundry

00:06:23.080 | because I hate folding laundry.

00:06:24.600 | So it's taking the thing you love the most

00:06:26.400 | and you are only allowed to do it.

00:06:27.760 | You can watch other shows,

00:06:28.760 | you can listen to other podcasts,

00:06:29.680 | other times in your life,

00:06:30.520 | but you can only do the one you love the most

00:06:31.760 | when you're doing the thing that you want to do

00:06:33.360 | that you don't like.

00:06:34.480 | - How do you think that compares

00:06:36.000 | to creating self-imposed penalties

00:06:38.080 | or other ways to motivate yourself?

00:06:39.800 | - So there's a lot of, again, procrastination tips

00:06:42.640 | in this book because it's something

00:06:43.760 | that I really struggle with.

00:06:44.680 | So I think self-imposed penalties,

00:06:46.280 | that's another bit of Dr. Melkman's research.

00:06:48.280 | We have an entire podcast with Dr. Melkman

00:06:50.440 | about habits and routines.

00:06:51.680 | I think it's called something like

00:06:52.720 | how to get more in shape, save more money.

00:06:55.280 | It's like all of these promises,

00:06:56.560 | but the thing is that Dr. Melkman's research

00:06:58.680 | comes back to achieving anything you want to achieve

00:07:01.240 | in any part of your life.

00:07:02.400 | So the self-imposed penalties is really fun.

00:07:04.600 | That would be something as easy as signing up

00:07:06.440 | for a workout class that you have to pay for in advance,

00:07:09.120 | that if you cancel, you don't get your money back,

00:07:10.840 | you're significantly more likely, research shows,

00:07:13.320 | to actually attend that workout class.

00:07:15.280 | If you want to take a vacation

00:07:16.520 | and you're one of those people who really has a hard time

00:07:18.720 | carving out the time in your life,

00:07:20.480 | even though so much research shows

00:07:22.160 | we perform better at work,

00:07:23.240 | we're happier in our relationship,

00:07:24.800 | we're healthier when we take our vacation days,

00:07:26.760 | but if that is you, if you pay for your vacation

00:07:29.320 | ahead of time and you make it non-refundable,

00:07:31.120 | you're so much more likely to take it, obviously.

00:07:33.040 | So knowing the way that our brain works

00:07:34.800 | can help us actually stick to the things

00:07:36.720 | that we want to stick to in that way.

00:07:38.320 | - There's an awesome book called "Happy Money."

00:07:40.160 | It's basically like five or six tips

00:07:41.840 | to use your money to be happier.

00:07:43.240 | And one of them is prepaying for vacations

00:07:45.440 | or things in general.

00:07:46.560 | And the argument there is a little bit different.

00:07:48.360 | So this is a double bonus if you prepay for vacations.

00:07:50.760 | Both you commit to going,

00:07:51.960 | but at the end, you don't have to pay the bill.

00:07:53.600 | When you're done, you're not like,

00:07:54.840 | "And I have to spend this thing."

00:07:56.040 | So it's not a letdown at the end of your trip.

00:07:57.760 | And even hotels that aren't pay at the end,

00:07:59.760 | you can call them and say,

00:08:00.600 | "Hey, can I just give you the credit card now?

00:08:01.680 | "Can you run it now?"

00:08:02.520 | Even if it's refundable, they'll refund you,

00:08:04.360 | but you get rid of that moment at the end of your trip

00:08:06.720 | where you see the bill and you realize

00:08:08.200 | how much room service, cocktails on the beach,

00:08:10.200 | whatever it was you ordered,

00:08:11.160 | you can prepay for at least the room part

00:08:12.760 | usually in advance.

00:08:13.600 | Tell them to send your bill.

00:08:14.560 | Don't need to sign at the end

00:08:16.120 | and kind of shelve the spending.

00:08:17.640 | Even better if you prepay

00:08:18.720 | and you don't even have it show up on your expenses,

00:08:20.920 | your tracking, anything.

00:08:22.040 | - Do you know what girl math is?

00:08:23.440 | - I didn't know math had a gender.

00:08:25.040 | - It's like a TikTok trend right now,

00:08:26.400 | but it's like if you return packages,

00:08:28.000 | you're making money, that's girl math.

00:08:29.560 | It's the idea that all of these ways

00:08:31.400 | that we can like begin to justify purchases in our minds

00:08:35.160 | and any gender can enjoy girl math,

00:08:37.520 | but it's called girl math.

00:08:38.840 | And I do think there's also something

00:08:40.200 | about paying for something in advance

00:08:41.880 | that when you go do it, it's free and that's girl math.

00:08:44.280 | And like, I feel like if I paid for a trip six months ago

00:08:47.200 | and I go on it, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's a free trip.

00:08:49.320 | - Although I will say the counter to this

00:08:51.320 | is I've met so many people that have paid for something

00:08:53.360 | and then they do it even though they don't wanna do it

00:08:55.440 | because they've paid for it.

00:08:56.600 | This sunk cost fallacy thing is really messing with people.

00:08:59.400 | I have a friend who once was like,

00:09:00.440 | I don't really wanna go to this concert.

00:09:01.680 | It's raining, it's gonna be awful.

00:09:03.240 | And they're like, but I paid for it.

00:09:04.240 | And I was like, just don't go.

00:09:05.240 | And they're like, well, I already paid for it.

00:09:06.240 | I was like, you paid for it.

00:09:07.080 | Whether you go or don't go, shelve that decision aside

00:09:09.600 | and now say, I've already spent this money.

00:09:11.400 | What do I wanna do tonight?

00:09:12.360 | What's gonna be the most enjoyable thing tonight?

00:09:14.120 | - I would also say if people are feeling like that,

00:09:16.360 | go do the thing.

00:09:17.240 | If you wanna go home early, go home early.

00:09:19.320 | But I think often we really underestimate

00:09:21.760 | how much we're gonna enjoy having an experience

00:09:24.440 | and we overestimate how much we will feel safe

00:09:27.160 | and comfortable and happy being at home

00:09:29.120 | and essentially consuming other people's lives

00:09:31.080 | on television and social media.

00:09:32.360 | So I would say air towards going to the concert.

00:09:35.480 | And if you absolutely hate it, then go home.

00:09:37.040 | - You're trending us towards a conversation

00:09:38.840 | about not saying no to yourself.

00:09:40.400 | Which is great because it was the last one

00:09:42.840 | I wanted to hit on in success.

00:09:44.320 | - This is my life motto.

00:09:45.800 | I give never be the one to say no to yourself credit

00:09:47.800 | for so much of my success, which is fine

00:09:49.800 | because it's my motto and I came up with it.

00:09:51.400 | I can give it the credit.

00:09:52.640 | But I don't even know where this came from in my life.

00:09:54.880 | I feel like I have never been the one to say no to yourself

00:09:57.360 | since I was five years old.

00:09:58.760 | The first time I can think of that I never be the one

00:10:02.080 | to say no to yourself was when I was a teenager.

00:10:04.280 | And I was like, I wanna write a newspaper column.

00:10:06.480 | And I walked into my local newspaper.

00:10:08.760 | I was like, you should have a column for teenagers

00:10:10.400 | and it should be written by a teenager.

00:10:12.080 | And they were like, okay.

00:10:12.920 | And so then I wrote a newspaper column

00:10:14.680 | and that column gave me writing experience.

00:10:16.600 | It ended up being nationally syndicated,

00:10:18.040 | which was really fun.

00:10:18.920 | And then when I graduated from college,

00:10:20.200 | I was able to run an editorial team

00:10:22.200 | despite having just graduated from college

00:10:24.200 | 'cause I had six years by then

00:10:25.760 | of newspaper experience under my belt.

00:10:27.560 | And I got my first cookbook deal

00:10:29.880 | by never being the one to say no to myself.

00:10:31.960 | I got my second cookbook deal.

00:10:33.240 | I got my dream job in editorial in New York City.

00:10:35.800 | And the principle behind never being the one

00:10:37.720 | to say no to yourself is not that everybody in the world

00:10:40.320 | will always say yes to you.

00:10:41.560 | I have gotten so many nos in my life,

00:10:45.200 | but the principle is that you are never the one

00:10:48.120 | telling yourself no.

00:10:49.440 | You are saying unequivocally, Liz, I believe in you.

00:10:52.920 | You've got this.

00:10:53.760 | If the world doesn't agree, cool, whatever.

00:10:56.120 | That's good information.

00:10:57.160 | You can go out and find somebody else to say yes,

00:10:58.680 | or you can accept the no, you can learn from the no,

00:11:00.560 | and you can move on.

00:11:01.560 | But I think always being in your own corner

00:11:04.000 | and your own cheerleader is such a powerful message

00:11:06.680 | to give your brain.

00:11:07.640 | And by and large, when you are telling yourself no,

00:11:11.160 | there is likely a yes out there.

00:11:13.040 | I have people who have gotten married

00:11:14.880 | because they have asked out somebody

00:11:16.440 | that they did not think would say yes to them,

00:11:18.520 | and then it ended up being a beautiful relationship

00:11:20.680 | and is now a partnership with children.

00:11:22.560 | I have so many people who write to me

00:11:24.840 | and they have gotten raises

00:11:26.240 | they didn't think were possible.

00:11:27.440 | They've gotten houses that they didn't think

00:11:29.240 | that they could qualify.

00:11:30.560 | They wrote letters to the house owners

00:11:32.320 | and they were like, I really want your house.

00:11:33.880 | And they gave it to them.

00:11:34.880 | There's so many areas in our lives

00:11:37.040 | that we are limiting ourselves

00:11:38.720 | that if we just went out and we looked,

00:11:40.680 | we would likely get a yes.

00:11:42.080 | - How do you think you combat that

00:11:43.440 | with being irrationally optimistic

00:11:45.680 | and convincing yourself that you can do anything

00:11:47.960 | when in reality, some things maybe you can't?

00:11:49.840 | - Most of the most successful people that I know

00:11:52.360 | are irrationally optimistic.

00:11:54.040 | There was some quote I read ages ago

00:11:56.320 | that was like, to be a successful business person,

00:11:58.160 | you literally need to be delusional

00:11:59.720 | because you have to have such a belief in things working

00:12:02.680 | that odds show shouldn't work.

00:12:05.040 | So I think you can use no's as information.

00:12:08.680 | If you're trying to write a book

00:12:10.440 | and you go out and you get 25 no's from agents,

00:12:12.880 | that's probably good information.

00:12:14.400 | You can ask them why the no.

00:12:15.760 | You can use that to rework your proposal and go out again.

00:12:19.240 | But I do think that is so much better

00:12:21.760 | than saying no to yourself, never writing the proposal,

00:12:24.640 | never getting out there.

00:12:25.920 | And I think that you can learn from that

00:12:27.880 | and then you can take that information

00:12:29.160 | and go forward the next time.

00:12:30.480 | - So what about areas of life

00:12:31.880 | where there isn't a no to go get?

00:12:34.120 | For example, if you wanna go start a podcast

00:12:35.680 | or start a blog, there's no no.

00:12:37.000 | You can just do it and you can keep doing it for years.

00:12:38.920 | How do you find out when to stop on something like that

00:12:41.800 | and say no to yourself?

00:12:42.880 | - So the thing that I run into the most

00:12:45.000 | with my audience and with people I talk to

00:12:46.800 | is not I've started a podcast,

00:12:48.760 | I've put in the work for years,

00:12:50.120 | I'm not qualified to do this,

00:12:51.640 | I'm not learning, I'm not growing.

00:12:53.040 | It's I wanna start a podcast,

00:12:54.720 | but I don't think I'm good enough.

00:12:55.920 | I wanna start a podcast,

00:12:57.000 | but what's all the equipment that I need to buy?

00:12:58.840 | I wanna start a podcast,

00:12:59.680 | but I spent 17 hours browsing Amazon

00:13:02.360 | trying to figure out what camera

00:13:03.800 | and what microphone I should get.

00:13:05.160 | And I think those are different ways

00:13:07.120 | that we are saying no to ourselves

00:13:08.640 | in the creation process.

00:13:10.160 | One really powerful way to say yes to yourself

00:13:12.320 | is to say I have the tools that I need to create.

00:13:15.000 | What I create is gonna be probably really shitty

00:13:17.560 | and the thing that's gonna make it less shitty

00:13:19.600 | is to continue to create it over time.

00:13:21.600 | Most podcasters I know suck at the beginning.

00:13:24.760 | They put out really bad podcasts, myself included,

00:13:27.680 | for one podcast, two podcasts, three podcasts.

00:13:29.960 | How many podcasts have you done now?

00:13:31.120 | - Probably 136.

00:13:32.680 | - Hundreds of podcasts.

00:13:34.240 | And that's how you get good at a craft

00:13:36.720 | is by starting with the shitty microphone,

00:13:40.000 | the shitty camera, no camera at all, no microphone,

00:13:42.440 | doing it on your computer

00:13:43.800 | and then learning and growing from the process.

00:13:46.120 | I meet far less people who have honed their craft

00:13:49.680 | over years and years and years

00:13:50.920 | and not gotten to a place where the quality

00:13:53.360 | is good enough or better.

00:13:54.880 | And I meet so many people who quit

00:13:56.880 | before they even begin.

00:13:58.200 | - And if someone listening is thinking in their head,

00:14:00.160 | what equipment?

00:14:01.000 | I would just say buy an ATR 2100X mic.

00:14:03.920 | It's a hundred bucks.

00:14:04.760 | It's what I used for the first 50 episodes

00:14:06.480 | and plug it into your computer

00:14:07.720 | and record it and put your podcast into script.

00:14:09.880 | That's it.

00:14:10.720 | - I read ages ago,

00:14:11.560 | that's what Tim Ferriss still uses for his podcasts.

00:14:14.040 | And I was like, okay, that's good enough.

00:14:15.600 | - I remember on the video, I was like,

00:14:16.880 | what was he using?

00:14:17.720 | But yeah, there's basically like three tiers

00:14:19.680 | of podcast microphones.

00:14:21.040 | That one, the one I'm on and the one you're on

00:14:23.160 | and like, those are the three tiers

00:14:24.400 | and there are plenty of others,

00:14:25.480 | but you can grow as much as you need

00:14:27.360 | on a basic microphone if your content is good.

00:14:29.240 | - A hundred percent.

00:14:30.560 | - So hopefully people are feeling

00:14:31.640 | like they are set up for success,

00:14:33.240 | but obviously there's a lot more ways to do that.

00:14:35.040 | Go read the rest.

00:14:35.960 | I love it when companies build amazing products

00:14:39.920 | to make our lives better,

00:14:41.160 | but it's even cooler when they help make the world

00:14:43.040 | a better place,

00:14:44.000 | which is why I'm so excited to be partnering

00:14:45.800 | with Daffy today because they're on a mission

00:14:47.680 | to help people be more generous more often.

00:14:50.520 | I've been a Daffy customer for years

00:14:52.280 | because I love that they have an easy platform

00:14:54.320 | and app to efficiently manage the way we give

00:14:56.840 | to the charities we care about.

00:14:58.640 | They do that by helping you set up

00:15:00.120 | a special tax advantaged account

00:15:01.880 | called the Donor Advised Fund

00:15:03.520 | that you can contribute cash, stock, or crypto to

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00:15:08.440 | and take your tax deduction upfront

00:15:10.760 | and then distribute that money

00:15:12.200 | to over one and a half million charities, schools,

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00:15:39.880 | to give to the charity of your choice.

00:15:41.880 | Again, that's allthehacks.com/D-A-F-F-Y

00:15:46.560 | to start giving today.

00:15:48.120 | Are you finally ready to say goodbye

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00:17:00.640 | Let's talk about health.

00:17:01.720 | There is a whole section here on gut health.

00:17:03.440 | I don't even know where to begin there.

00:17:05.360 | It's something I've never spent much time on.

00:17:07.400 | If I'm thinking of all the things I can do

00:17:08.880 | to improve my life, why is making my gut better important?

00:17:12.440 | - Okay, so two things.

00:17:13.600 | One thing is that this book wants to solve

00:17:16.280 | all of the problems that you are having

00:17:18.520 | that are keeping you from living the life

00:17:20.320 | that you wanna live on a day-to-day basis.

00:17:21.680 | So if you're feeling bloated,

00:17:23.120 | if you're feeling constipated,

00:17:24.400 | if you're feeling like you don't have the energy

00:17:27.080 | that you want, that's all gonna be covered

00:17:29.080 | in the gut health section.

00:17:30.040 | But moreover, and I think far more importantly,

00:17:32.680 | is that our microbiome impacts so much

00:17:35.920 | of our full-body health.

00:17:37.080 | So our microbiome is having a huge impact

00:17:39.400 | on our ability to sleep well, on our energy levels,

00:17:42.280 | on our hormones, on our mental health.

00:17:44.160 | The gut-brain connection is very well-studied

00:17:46.560 | and it has a very profound effect.

00:17:48.360 | - But what are the kinds of things I could do?

00:17:50.040 | Like, are there ways that I can upgrade

00:17:51.560 | what I'm already eating that's not too hard

00:17:53.800 | to improve my gut health?

00:17:54.760 | - So this is a big thing that I've found.

00:17:56.520 | I've interviewed hundreds of different doctors,

00:17:59.440 | gut health experts, microbiome experts, hormone experts,

00:18:03.040 | all these different people.

00:18:04.240 | And one of the questions I always get

00:18:05.800 | is what are the best foods that you should eat?

00:18:07.800 | And there's a lot of dissonance

00:18:09.280 | about what our diet should actually look like

00:18:11.200 | on social media.

00:18:12.040 | And people are confused and I get that.

00:18:13.600 | But I think if you actually dive

00:18:15.000 | into what people are saying,

00:18:16.600 | the things people are disagreeing about

00:18:17.680 | are like the top 10% and they're agreeing

00:18:20.640 | about the other 90%.

00:18:22.000 | And so what this book really focuses on

00:18:23.800 | is what are the experts agreeing on?

00:18:25.480 | What does the research show?

00:18:26.800 | And what are the ways that we can take the foods

00:18:28.360 | that we are already eating

00:18:29.920 | and make them even better for us

00:18:32.400 | without spending more money on fancy powders

00:18:34.760 | and supplements and just all of this stuff

00:18:37.160 | when we're taking care of our base structure

00:18:39.600 | you do not need?

00:18:40.520 | So some of my favorite tips are things like

00:18:42.800 | if you chop your cruciferous vegetables

00:18:44.880 | and you let them sit for 40 minutes,

00:18:46.920 | they develop a compound that's incredibly good

00:18:49.680 | for our bodies.

00:18:50.520 | It's anti-cancerous.

00:18:51.720 | It helps with our brains.

00:18:53.160 | And then if you add mustard to that,

00:18:55.280 | you actually increase that compound even further.

00:18:57.600 | And so you're just taking something

00:18:58.680 | that you would normally eat.

00:18:59.600 | You're taking your cruciferous vegetables.

00:19:01.200 | - Which by the way are what?

00:19:02.720 | - That's broccoli, that's Brussels sprouts,

00:19:04.880 | that's watercress, that's kale, anything like that.

00:19:08.200 | And you're taking these foods you'd already eat

00:19:09.760 | and you're just chopping them

00:19:10.840 | at the beginning of your meal prep.

00:19:12.480 | So you're making your salad,

00:19:13.600 | chop your cruciferous vegetables first.

00:19:15.600 | By the time you're ready to eat,

00:19:16.680 | they will have developed this compound.

00:19:18.560 | And then if you want to take it to the next level,

00:19:20.400 | do a little mustard vinaigrette on top of your salad,

00:19:22.520 | do some mustard seeds on top of your roasted broccoli,

00:19:24.840 | which is so good.

00:19:26.120 | And you're taking it even further.

00:19:27.920 | And you're taking this food group

00:19:28.920 | that you're already eating

00:19:29.760 | and you're making it even better for yourself.

00:19:31.440 | - And some of the things you mentioned,

00:19:32.760 | I'm not feeling bloated right now,

00:19:34.240 | but who doesn't want more energy?

00:19:35.520 | So I wanna make sure we hit on that section of health

00:19:38.040 | because I don't know that many people

00:19:39.680 | that aren't struggling with energy.

00:19:41.400 | Maybe it's 'cause I'm now hanging out

00:19:42.600 | with lots of people with children

00:19:43.720 | and we're not sleeping as much as we used to

00:19:45.560 | and we don't have the free time we used to.

00:19:46.960 | But what tips do you have there?

00:19:48.440 | - Our metabolism is essentially the energy of our body,

00:19:51.680 | but we talk about it in this shitty,

00:19:53.240 | diet-centric, '90s magazine type way.

00:19:56.440 | Like, "Oh my God, you gotta hack your metabolism.

00:19:58.320 | You gotta lose weight."

00:19:59.480 | And no, taking care of our metabolic health

00:20:01.480 | is going to give us the energy that we need

00:20:03.240 | to take on our day every single day.

00:20:05.000 | There's a few ways that we can begin

00:20:06.320 | to have better metabolic health.

00:20:07.960 | One of my favorite ways is just to look for the things

00:20:10.480 | that you can add to your meals.

00:20:11.920 | You wanna add a healthy source of fat.

00:20:13.480 | You wanna add a healthy source of fiber.

00:20:14.960 | You wanna add as much vegetables to your meals

00:20:16.800 | as you possibly can.

00:20:17.680 | So looking at your plate and instead of thinking,

00:20:19.400 | "What am I taking out?"

00:20:20.640 | You're thinking, "I got exactly what I want.

00:20:22.120 | I got my frozen pizza.

00:20:23.240 | Could I add some fiber in the form of vegetables?

00:20:25.560 | Could I add a healthy fat?

00:20:27.040 | Could I add a healthy protein to this thing

00:20:29.040 | that you're already eating?"

00:20:30.160 | To elongate your blood sugar curve

00:20:31.720 | so that you're having a healthier metabolic response

00:20:35.000 | to that, which is in turn going to give you more energy.

00:20:37.480 | Another little metabolic health hack that I love

00:20:40.800 | is that your muscles essentially act as glucose sponges.

00:20:44.040 | So after you eat a meal,

00:20:45.800 | your muscles are soaking up that glucose

00:20:48.280 | so that you're not having, again, that spike and that dip

00:20:50.640 | that's gonna cost you your precious energy.

00:20:52.680 | So after you eat a meal, you can go on a little walk.

00:20:55.360 | There's a reason that this is so popular

00:20:57.320 | in so many cultures around the world.

00:20:58.840 | You can do five squats.

00:21:00.440 | You just wanna activate your muscles

00:21:02.200 | to create that glucose absorption to elongate that curve

00:21:06.320 | so that you're gonna have more energy as a result

00:21:08.720 | and you're taking better care

00:21:09.960 | of your metabolic health as a result.

00:21:11.960 | Also, you can get a little bit of a headstart on that

00:21:14.520 | by creating bigger, stronger muscles in the first place.

00:21:17.640 | So weight training, anything that you do

00:21:19.400 | that's going to make bigger, stronger muscles

00:21:21.600 | is going to help, again, with that glucose response.

00:21:24.240 | - Is it better to focus on all your muscles?

00:21:26.000 | Should you do one of those quick, three-minute,

00:21:27.920 | hit-every-muscle group-in-your-body exercises?

00:21:30.280 | Or is there a perfect thing that doesn't look too awkward

00:21:32.880 | a few minutes after dinner that you can do?

00:21:34.920 | - I think that this is an example

00:21:36.920 | of where people try to over-optimize

00:21:39.040 | and they lose sight of the forest for the trees.

00:21:41.960 | Any movement after you eat

00:21:44.000 | is going to activate your muscles.

00:21:45.640 | If you think you're activating your muscles,

00:21:47.440 | you are activating your muscles.

00:21:48.800 | So again, literally, don't overthink it.

00:21:50.600 | Go on a walk.

00:21:51.440 | If you can't go on a walk, do some squats.

00:21:53.040 | You can have sex with your partner.

00:21:54.600 | You can do all sorts of things.

00:21:56.160 | If you think you're activating your muscles,

00:21:57.760 | you're activating your muscles.

00:21:59.000 | - Okay, so we can get healthier and we can get happier.

00:22:01.240 | So I wanna talk about happiness.

00:22:02.760 | We can all agree that it's a noble goal

00:22:05.160 | for all of us to achieve more of it.

00:22:06.920 | So what's one way you can start

00:22:08.920 | to rewire yourself to be happier?

00:22:11.160 | - This is probably my all-time favorite tip in the book.

00:22:14.440 | This is from Dr. Rick Hansen.

00:22:15.720 | He's at UC Berkeley.

00:22:16.680 | He has the kindest energy of any human being

00:22:20.200 | that I have ever met in my life.

00:22:21.760 | And he's brilliant.

00:22:22.720 | He combines neuroscience with Zen Buddhism.

00:22:25.720 | He's just a brilliant man.

00:22:27.160 | And he talks about how we can literally rewire

00:22:30.200 | our neural pathways so that we can feel the way

00:22:32.520 | that we wanna feel on a day-to-day basis.

00:22:34.160 | And the way that you do it is this.

00:22:35.600 | If you picture your brain like a meadow

00:22:38.160 | and you're trying to get through the meadow

00:22:39.760 | and there's tall grass everywhere

00:22:41.040 | and you're looking for the path

00:22:42.400 | and you're gonna take the path

00:22:43.400 | that is the easiest path to get through the meadow.

00:22:45.480 | Every time you're thinking a thought that I'm so stressed,

00:22:48.040 | I hate myself so much.

00:22:49.360 | Why is this so hard?

00:22:50.600 | Why does everybody hate me?

00:22:51.640 | You're essentially taking those thoughts

00:22:53.840 | and you're rewiring your neural pathways in that direction.

00:22:56.600 | You're carving a path through that meadow.

00:22:59.040 | So the next time that your brain is looking

00:23:01.040 | to take a path through the meadow,

00:23:02.120 | it's gonna take the one that you already created

00:23:04.120 | with those negative thoughts.

00:23:05.320 | It's gonna go to those negative thoughts

00:23:06.560 | and you're gonna feel really shitty.

00:23:08.200 | But if you intentionally create a pathway for good thoughts,

00:23:12.440 | your brain, the next time it's given the opportunity

00:23:14.920 | is going to take that pathway

00:23:16.120 | because that's the more well-trod path.

00:23:17.760 | That's the neurons that you've connected together

00:23:20.280 | to feel as good as possible.

00:23:21.800 | And the way that you do that is really simple.

00:23:23.680 | The next time that you feel a little bit of something good,

00:23:26.560 | it could be, wow, this book's really interesting.

00:23:28.520 | Wow, I'm really enjoying this conversation.

00:23:30.160 | It can be teeny tiny.

00:23:31.120 | I love this sunset.

00:23:32.200 | This flower smells great.

00:23:33.480 | My dog is so cute today.

00:23:34.960 | You sit in it for a little bit longer

00:23:37.000 | than you normally would and you amplify that feeling.

00:23:39.520 | You notice it, you amplify it, you sit in it.

00:23:41.960 | That's all you're doing.

00:23:42.800 | Oh my God, the bubbles in this Coke, yum.

00:23:45.600 | Love it, so good, move on with your life.

00:23:47.840 | - Does it have to be external or can you just--

00:23:49.280 | - No, internally, that's my,

00:23:50.960 | I'm voicing my internal monologue here.

00:23:52.760 | No, I love it because you can be doing it

00:23:54.480 | in a meeting at work.

00:23:55.560 | You could be doing it while you're talking to your spouse.

00:23:57.040 | I sometimes have moments where I'm just overwhelmed

00:23:59.360 | with gratitude and appreciation for my husband.

00:24:01.400 | And I mean, I probably should say that out loud, honestly,

00:24:03.040 | 'cause he'd probably appreciate it.

00:24:04.080 | But I'll just sit in there and be like,

00:24:05.000 | oh my God, I can't believe that if all the people

00:24:06.800 | in the world, I found you and I get to live my life with you

00:24:10.120 | and I'll sit in that feeling and I'll amplify it

00:24:12.080 | and I'll turn it up.

00:24:12.920 | And that is literally on a biological level,

00:24:15.840 | on a neurological level,

00:24:17.440 | you are rewiring your neural pathways.

00:24:19.600 | You are building them together to create the routes

00:24:21.680 | that you wanna take through that meadow.

00:24:23.260 | So the next time it's gonna take those good pathways,

00:24:25.480 | you're gonna feel so much better in your day-to-day life.

00:24:27.720 | So look for the little opportunities.

00:24:30.080 | The next time you feel anything good,

00:24:31.760 | mm, this ice cream is so delicious.

00:24:33.560 | Sit in it, amplify it, and really, really savor

00:24:36.840 | that feeling so that you can rewire your neural pathways.

00:24:39.440 | - I don't have a corporate job anymore,

00:24:40.680 | but this feels like the perfect opportunity

00:24:42.480 | for one of those really big meetings

00:24:44.360 | where it's a total waste of time,

00:24:45.640 | especially if you're in person.

00:24:46.600 | Just stare at something in the room,

00:24:48.280 | think about something great.

00:24:49.600 | You don't have to distract yourself with your phone

00:24:51.240 | and look like you're not paying attention.

00:24:52.760 | - You took an example of something that's kind of boring

00:24:54.720 | that we all hate.

00:24:55.560 | And the thing is that if you go in there

00:24:57.520 | with the neural pathways that you've wired

00:24:59.200 | towards stress, towards anger, towards bitterness,

00:25:01.360 | your brain will again take those pathways

00:25:03.120 | and you'll think, "Ugh, why are we having

00:25:04.640 | "these meetings again?

00:25:05.480 | "This is stupid, I hate this, I hate my job.

00:25:07.680 | "Why aren't I Kim Kardashian at this point in my life?"

00:25:10.240 | But if you've wired your neural pathways

00:25:12.520 | to good by smelling your dog's fur,

00:25:14.240 | sitting in that and savoring it.

00:25:15.600 | My cat smells so good, let me tell you.

00:25:17.440 | It's the best smell in the whole world.

00:25:18.560 | I'm like, "I never bathed you once.

00:25:20.320 | "How do you smell so good?"

00:25:21.360 | And I know what you eat.

00:25:22.400 | - I'm laughing over here because my dog,

00:25:24.200 | I don't think smells good almost ever,

00:25:25.880 | except for some reason his ears smell like tortilla chips.

00:25:28.440 | - All right, well, that's something.

00:25:29.680 | But if you've done that by smelling your pet,

00:25:32.000 | by hugging your partner, by eating the Mexican food,

00:25:35.200 | the next time you go into that super boring meeting,

00:25:37.240 | you wouldn't have to try.

00:25:38.280 | You'll naturally think, "Oh, that's an interesting idea.

00:25:41.080 | "Or maybe this is an opportunity to share something

00:25:42.880 | "or learn something that I haven't shared before.

00:25:44.800 | "Aren't I lucky to have this job?"

00:25:46.560 | Your brain will do that effortlessly in these moments

00:25:49.920 | that you would have otherwise tended towards negativity.

00:25:52.720 | - There is one app I love so much.

00:25:56.560 | I use it every day.

00:25:57.840 | It's pinned to the dock on my computer

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00:26:05.040 | manage this podcast, plan our trips,

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00:26:23.960 | I've been saving so much time letting it do the tedious work

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00:28:48.000 | I just wanna thank you, Quick,

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00:28:53.100 | Your support is what keeps this show going.

00:28:55.940 | To get all of the URLs, codes, deals,

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00:29:03.960 | so please consider supporting those who support us.

00:29:07.200 | One of the things that I think can make you really unhappy

00:29:09.040 | is just having so much stuff going on in your mind

00:29:11.480 | and never feeling like you can actually catch up,

00:29:14.360 | so I'm curious how we can start to offload

00:29:16.520 | some of that cognitive load.

00:29:17.960 | - So, one of my favorite tricks in life,

00:29:20.440 | this is from Annie Murphy-Paul.

00:29:21.800 | She's a behavioral science writer,

00:29:24.120 | and she studies essentially how we can use things

00:29:26.820 | outside of our brain, access outside of the brain thinking,

00:29:29.540 | is what she calls it, to become smarter.

00:29:31.420 | And then we can save our brain

00:29:32.700 | for the really special things that only our brain can do.

00:29:35.340 | But if you sit back and you think about it for a second,

00:29:37.140 | you're like, how much am I making my brain do

00:29:39.860 | that could easily be done by a computer program,

00:29:43.260 | that could easily be done by a pad of paper and a pen?

00:29:46.260 | You know what I mean?

00:29:47.100 | And so the idea behind cognitive offloading

00:29:49.180 | is taking all of those thoughts,

00:29:50.580 | every single little possible thing in your brain

00:29:52.900 | that you don't need to be wasting

00:29:55.040 | your precious neural capacity on and offloading it

00:29:58.020 | so that you can save your beautiful, brilliant brain

00:30:00.920 | for the things that really matter.

00:30:02.040 | So I cognitively offload everything.

00:30:04.240 | I have Notion.

00:30:05.080 | I use it for literally everything.

00:30:06.400 | I have notes of things to talk about in therapy.

00:30:08.560 | I have an ongoing grocery list that I share with my partner.

00:30:11.960 | I have every single podcast episode

00:30:14.240 | that I ever wanna do in the future.

00:30:16.080 | I have things that I wanna buy.

00:30:17.720 | So I have everything on my Notion,

00:30:20.080 | and I find that by not having to be like,

00:30:23.320 | wait, what did we need to add to the grocery list?

00:30:25.920 | Or what was that podcast episode

00:30:27.520 | that I think I wanted to produce, but like, I don't know,

00:30:29.740 | I was gonna noodle on it for a while.

00:30:31.200 | By taking all those thoughts out of my brain,

00:30:32.960 | my brain is freer to have the deep and exciting

00:30:36.160 | and interesting thoughts that I want it to have.

00:30:37.960 | - So I'm gonna take a tiny segue

00:30:39.320 | and get your take on something I got in my inbox yesterday.

00:30:42.080 | So there's a company called Rewind,

00:30:43.360 | and what they basically do is it runs on a Mac

00:30:46.400 | and it just records everything

00:30:47.600 | that's happening on your computer.

00:30:48.600 | All the websites you visit, the Zoom meetings you're in.

00:30:51.480 | There are some requirements in every state

00:30:53.400 | to disclose anything.

00:30:54.380 | They pop up and say, do you wanna record this meeting?

00:30:56.320 | So it'll record everything you're doing

00:30:57.480 | and then you can query it.

00:30:58.320 | And you can be like, what website did I look at

00:30:59.920 | on last Friday?

00:31:00.960 | You can search the text on everything on your screen.

00:31:02.840 | - Wow.

00:31:03.680 | - So we can all agree that maybe that has a use case,

00:31:05.220 | but here's the crazy thing.

00:31:06.160 | They sent me an email, I'm not in any beta program,

00:31:08.040 | but they're like, do you wanna pre-order this product?

00:31:10.280 | It's called the Rewind Pendant.

00:31:11.560 | And it is a necklace with a microphone

00:31:13.200 | that does the same thing in person.

00:31:15.120 | So you can completely cognitively offload everything

00:31:17.260 | and say, go to a conference, wear this thing all the time

00:31:19.680 | and say, what did I talk to that person about

00:31:21.560 | at this conference?

00:31:22.400 | - Wow.

00:31:23.220 | - I'm very curious to get your take.

00:31:24.680 | This is the first time I've actually gotten

00:31:25.900 | anyone else's opinion on it.

00:31:26.740 | - That is so interesting.

00:31:28.360 | - On one hand, cognitively offload everything.

00:31:30.680 | And on the other hand, kind of creepy.

00:31:32.520 | - For me, I wanna cognitively offload the parts

00:31:35.100 | that aren't human interactions

00:31:36.520 | so I can enjoy the human interactions more.

00:31:38.720 | So I think that's where my ick would come in with it.

00:31:41.560 | The point of cognitive offloading

00:31:43.120 | is to focus my brain in the directions

00:31:44.880 | that I wanna focus it.

00:31:45.700 | And not have it be occupied by the things

00:31:47.380 | that I don't want it to be occupied by.

00:31:49.160 | And the thing I want it to be occupied by

00:31:51.280 | is human interaction.

00:31:52.560 | And I think that the fear would be that this device

00:31:55.420 | would make me want to not spend as much of my energy

00:31:58.720 | or attention on that.

00:31:59.720 | - I was very torn.

00:32:00.720 | The thing that I like, which I'm not sure I like enough

00:32:03.020 | to actually outweigh all the problems,

00:32:05.360 | is just sometimes I get really into a conversation.

00:32:07.840 | I have a wonderful conversation with someone.

00:32:09.660 | And then later, I wanna come back to it and be like,

00:32:12.020 | oh, I really enjoyed talking to you about this.

00:32:13.540 | But it was at a conference and it's two days later.

00:32:15.320 | And I couldn't remember a thing.

00:32:16.640 | And there are some people who naturally remember.

00:32:18.480 | Some people who leave each meeting

00:32:19.760 | and they write down like six notes

00:32:21.200 | about the conversation they have.

00:32:22.860 | Which for me is the exact opposite.

00:32:24.240 | It's like I just took myself away

00:32:25.580 | from the moment I love to take notes.

00:32:27.160 | And this would do it for you.

00:32:28.160 | Using the one on my computer,

00:32:29.720 | the software this company Rewind makes,

00:32:31.120 | has saved me in like 10 different ways

00:32:33.760 | that are all relatively minor.

00:32:35.920 | But I think we've all written something,

00:32:37.760 | whether we filled out a form,

00:32:39.080 | whether it was writing something that didn't save.

00:32:41.600 | And then you close the window or close the tab

00:32:43.440 | and you go back and it's gone.

00:32:44.520 | - What are they doing for storage?

00:32:46.120 | - It's just all locally stored on your computer.

00:32:47.820 | - Does it self erase every week?

00:32:49.720 | - You can choose, but I think I had mine set for seven days.

00:32:52.720 | And 90% of the use cases I've had for it

00:32:55.200 | were not let me query something from 10 weeks ago.

00:32:57.920 | This is a strange example,

00:32:59.200 | but I was setting up auto insurance with USAA.

00:33:01.680 | And they were like, you're gonna get this special price

00:33:04.000 | if you bundle home and auto and add on this policy.

00:33:06.720 | And then once I did it all,

00:33:08.240 | I was like, hey, I didn't see the discounts.

00:33:09.680 | And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:33:10.520 | They're just gonna come in three weeks.

00:33:11.920 | And I was like, well, what are they gonna be?

00:33:12.960 | And she's like, well, you just have to wait and see.

00:33:14.160 | I was like, no, no, no, you told me, but I can't go back.

00:33:16.400 | And then I was like, oh, I looked at it yesterday.

00:33:18.120 | Rewind, take a screenshot.

00:33:19.360 | Now I have it saved. - Wow.

00:33:20.660 | - Let's go into relationships

00:33:21.760 | 'cause we started getting there and I got excited

00:33:23.480 | because this was the one that I said

00:33:25.080 | I wanted to come back to because it's top of mind for me.

00:33:27.920 | Building deeper relationships,

00:33:29.680 | especially with the people that matter,

00:33:31.320 | becomes such a different challenge and priority in life

00:33:35.160 | after, in my case, having children

00:33:37.040 | because you just don't have time.

00:33:37.880 | You don't have time for all the relationships.

00:33:39.640 | And it almost feels like work to keep up with some people

00:33:42.680 | that you wanna keep up with.

00:33:43.560 | I have one thing I'll share at some point,

00:33:45.920 | but I'm curious how you think about this broadly

00:33:48.480 | in terms of picking who to spend time with

00:33:50.560 | and deepening those relationships.

00:33:52.200 | - So the first thing that I would say

00:33:53.720 | is even by identifying that you're excited

00:33:55.840 | to talk about relationships, you're winning.

00:33:57.720 | I think a lot of us in the world today

00:33:59.880 | have failed to identify community and relationships

00:34:02.520 | as a critical part of happiness, of our health,

00:34:05.680 | of the way that we live our lives

00:34:08.040 | that will lead to satisfaction and success.

00:34:10.560 | Relationships are at the core of almost every single thing

00:34:13.240 | that we do.

00:34:14.080 | And we act like they're an afterthought.

00:34:15.840 | We act like, "Oh, if I get through my busy day,

00:34:17.720 | "if I accomplish all my tasks for work,

00:34:19.400 | "if I do all my health hacks, whatever,

00:34:21.440 | "if I finish everything that I need to do on my to-do list,

00:34:23.960 | "then I can have time to socialize

00:34:26.080 | "and to spend with the people that I love."

00:34:27.760 | And I almost think that we need to be flipping that equation.

00:34:31.560 | If you need to take away some of your other health habits

00:34:34.080 | to preserve your relationships, to create that time,

00:34:37.040 | I would say that's probably worth it,

00:34:38.800 | at least some of the time, because research shows,

00:34:41.960 | this is research from Dr. Robert Waldinger.

00:34:43.960 | He ran one of the longest studies of longevity and happiness

00:34:47.760 | and essentially living a thriving life.

00:34:49.200 | It is an 80-year-plus study about what makes a good life.

00:34:52.160 | And at the end of the day, the one-liner is

00:34:54.600 | that the relationships that we form are the bedrock,

00:34:58.400 | the foundation of what a good life looks like.

00:35:00.880 | So good relationships are gonna make us live longer.

00:35:03.360 | They're gonna lower our stress levels.

00:35:04.960 | They're gonna make us excited to wake up every single day.

00:35:07.240 | They are the single most important thing.

00:35:09.640 | And again, we treat it like an afterthought.

00:35:11.440 | So one of the first things that I would recommend

00:35:13.760 | to anybody is to just switch that priority level.

00:35:16.600 | I think we are really focused

00:35:18.120 | on what supplements should I be taking?

00:35:19.680 | How can I optimize my workout routine?

00:35:21.760 | Do I need to go do a sauna or a cold plunge?

00:35:24.120 | Things that are trendy.

00:35:25.120 | And we should be thinking, when was the last time

00:35:26.840 | that I saw somebody that I loved in person?

00:35:29.560 | When was the last time that I called this friend?

00:35:31.480 | When was the last time that instead of scrolling

00:35:33.160 | social media, I had a real human interaction

00:35:35.440 | that was really satisfying?

00:35:36.640 | And moving that, again, to the top of the priority list.

00:35:39.280 | In terms of figuring out which people are worth your time

00:35:43.200 | and are worth you focusing your very limited space

00:35:46.680 | that you have each day on, I think I'd ask myself,

00:35:49.280 | what are the things that you're looking for

00:35:51.240 | in your relationships right now?

00:35:52.320 | So I think I hear from a lot of new parents,

00:35:54.000 | like, I'm having a hard time connecting with my friends,

00:35:56.320 | but the friends that you're trying to connect with

00:35:57.760 | are people who wanna go out.

00:35:59.520 | They wanna maybe meet a partner.

00:36:01.160 | They're just in a different space in their life.

00:36:02.880 | And you're creating this cognitive dissonance

00:36:04.680 | between what your goals are and the things

00:36:06.600 | that you're trying to do at that moment are

00:36:07.840 | and what their goals are.

00:36:09.000 | And that can lead to some friction in a relationship.

00:36:11.320 | So I think the first thing is,

00:36:12.360 | what are you looking to get

00:36:13.480 | out of your relationships right now?

00:36:15.040 | And who are the people that can naturally

00:36:17.440 | tend towards giving you those things?

00:36:19.720 | - One of the challenges I find,

00:36:21.880 | and I don't know if maybe I need

00:36:23.000 | the energy hacks first to get here.

00:36:24.720 | The conversation often just divulges very quickly

00:36:28.080 | into the same thing you end up talking about with everyone,

00:36:30.520 | and you don't really get to go deep with anyone.

00:36:32.400 | So I meet a lot of people at the park,

00:36:34.400 | and it's just like, oh, how old are your kids?

00:36:36.000 | What are they doing?

00:36:36.840 | It's that conversation.

00:36:38.040 | What tips do you have for people

00:36:39.800 | that wanna go deeper earlier and kind of understand,

00:36:43.200 | is this a person that I could have

00:36:44.840 | a long-term connection with?

00:36:46.160 | And I'm not talking romantic.

00:36:47.200 | I'm talking about random friends in the neighborhood,

00:36:48.960 | people you might hang out with on the weekend.

00:36:50.920 | How do you take someone who you think

00:36:52.560 | you could have a meaningful relationship with

00:36:53.960 | in a completely platonic friendship way and go deep?

00:36:57.680 | - Absolutely.

00:36:58.520 | So there's amazing research

00:36:59.800 | from a woman named Dr. Marissa G. Franco,

00:37:02.080 | and she is a friendship psychologist.

00:37:04.240 | And her research shows that the more vulnerable we are,

00:37:08.280 | we think people are gonna like us less.

00:37:10.000 | We're gonna think people are gonna get the ick.

00:37:11.440 | They're gonna be like, I don't wanna engage with this.

00:37:13.560 | But in fact, the more vulnerable we are,

00:37:15.640 | the more people are going to like us, period.

00:37:18.040 | So if you're at the playground and somebody's like,

00:37:19.880 | oh, how old's your kid, whatever,

00:37:21.040 | you could say, wow, this was a really exciting week.

00:37:23.680 | My kid hit this milestone.

00:37:25.320 | I did this work thing that I never thought was possible.

00:37:27.880 | You can be vulnerable in a good direction.

00:37:29.040 | You can also say, it's been a really tough week.

00:37:31.320 | I've been feeling a lot of anxiety.

00:37:33.040 | I'm still struggling to learn how to deal with this.

00:37:35.200 | You can open up in a way that's gonna push the conversation

00:37:38.880 | and the direction of vulnerability,

00:37:40.840 | giving them something to connect to.

00:37:42.720 | We think, again, that it's gonna turn people away from us,

00:37:45.280 | but it's actually gonna pull them into us.

00:37:47.680 | I'm also a huge fan of putting a little bit

00:37:50.360 | of intentionality into our gatherings.

00:37:52.280 | I did a podcast episode with Priya Parker

00:37:53.960 | who wrote a beautiful book about the art of gathering.

00:37:56.560 | And it was about how when we come together as a community,

00:37:59.520 | by putting a little bit of intentionality behind that,

00:38:02.000 | we can get so much more out of that.

00:38:04.200 | So again, it's like leaning into the things

00:38:06.240 | that people find cringy,

00:38:07.600 | whether it's a conversation starter, a prompt saying,

00:38:10.800 | I don't wanna have the same conversation over and over.

00:38:13.760 | Just putting a little bit of intentionality

00:38:15.600 | behind the gathering in the first place,

00:38:17.320 | I think can be really helpful.

00:38:18.600 | I love organized fun.

00:38:20.280 | I love any type of getting together

00:38:22.960 | where there's a little bit of structure to it,

00:38:24.880 | because I do think we're all sick

00:38:26.200 | of having the same conversation over and over.

00:38:28.680 | I genuinely think everybody is,

00:38:30.240 | and often just acknowledging that and saying,

00:38:32.720 | look, I have this conversation starter deck,

00:38:34.640 | or I'm really sick of talking about the weather.

00:38:37.240 | And honestly, maybe you even say,

00:38:38.880 | I'm sick of talking about my kids right now.

00:38:40.480 | I love my kids so much,

00:38:41.560 | but I'd rather talk about anything else.

00:38:43.400 | What was a vacation you went on

00:38:44.920 | that you last really enjoyed?

00:38:46.640 | What's your dream vacation?

00:38:47.800 | You can pull stuff out of the blue

00:38:49.480 | if you have the vulnerability to admit

00:38:51.320 | you're not happy with the status quo in the first place.

00:38:53.440 | - I really like that.

00:38:54.280 | I think we both interviewed Vanessa Van Edwards,

00:38:56.440 | who has some good tips here of jumping into a conversation

00:38:59.600 | and not saying, what do you do for work,

00:39:01.360 | but what's something awesome that happened at work this week

00:39:03.400 | or come up with some ideas and just be intentional about it.

00:39:06.520 | - We all wanna talk about something new

00:39:08.080 | and acknowledging the elephant in the room

00:39:10.000 | gives you so much permission to be like,

00:39:11.280 | oh, I heard this great question on a podcast,

00:39:13.280 | or I read this conversation starter

00:39:14.920 | in an email newsletter that I got the other day.

00:39:16.800 | What do you think of this?

00:39:17.960 | - You have this tip in the book.

00:39:19.280 | I think Vanessa shared it on our episode.

00:39:21.040 | I've heard it from a lot of people at Negotiating.

00:39:22.760 | Building a deeper rapport,

00:39:24.280 | whether it's a friendship or even in work,

00:39:26.040 | listening is also the key.

00:39:27.600 | There's so many ways that we can be generous

00:39:30.200 | with our attention.

00:39:31.680 | And we focus so often on being the entertainer,

00:39:34.600 | but what people actually want

00:39:36.360 | is for us to be present with them.

00:39:38.960 | - How many times have you been in a conversation

00:39:40.640 | where you think you're having a conversation,

00:39:42.360 | but they're just waiting for you to stop talking

00:39:44.920 | so they can say the thing that they were gonna say?

00:39:46.840 | And everybody knows that feeling and it sucks.

00:39:48.960 | They're not thinking like, wow,

00:39:50.120 | they gave a really sparkling response to what I said.

00:39:53.160 | You're thinking like, you weren't listening to me.

00:39:54.760 | That feels really bad.

00:39:56.200 | - Being an incredibly attentive listener

00:39:58.640 | is genuinely one of the best gifts you can give somebody.

00:40:01.440 | It makes them like you more.

00:40:03.040 | Even if you need to take a second

00:40:04.080 | when they finish talking and say,

00:40:05.120 | huh, that was really interesting.

00:40:06.400 | I'm gonna think about my response for a second.

00:40:08.600 | That's not the end of the world.

00:40:09.840 | It's actually often really appreciated.

00:40:11.840 | I also think in terms of reactions,

00:40:13.560 | thinking about how you're reacting to people too.

00:40:16.000 | I have a tip in the book

00:40:17.160 | about how we can have more fun in our lives.

00:40:18.960 | This is from Catherine Price.

00:40:20.520 | We did an entire episode about how to create more fun,

00:40:23.400 | how to be a fun magnet,

00:40:24.640 | the type of person that everybody always thinks

00:40:26.840 | is really fun and wants to be around.

00:40:28.760 | And one of the best hacks for that is to be quick to laugh.

00:40:32.160 | And I love it because it is so simple

00:40:34.400 | and it's not fake laughing.

00:40:35.520 | It's just leaning into the moments where you're entertained

00:40:38.880 | and being generous with your laughter.

00:40:40.880 | And we can all remember those times when we go out

00:40:43.120 | and we feel like we're the funniest person in the world.

00:40:45.000 | And like, how good does it feel to be around those people

00:40:47.400 | who make us feel like that?

00:40:48.440 | Those are the people that you want to invite out

00:40:50.000 | over and over and they haven't entertained you.

00:40:52.360 | They haven't danced on a table.

00:40:53.800 | They haven't told a really witty joke.

00:40:55.280 | They've laughed when you've said funny things.

00:40:58.760 | But those are the people that we want to be around.

00:41:00.440 | - I love this.

00:41:01.280 | I feel like I need to be more intentional

00:41:02.120 | about laughing without being fake.

00:41:03.480 | - Without being fake.

00:41:04.320 | But I think there's so many opportunities

00:41:06.040 | and one, you won't catch them if you're not listening,

00:41:08.840 | if you're not paying attention.

00:41:10.040 | But two, we almost hold ourselves back

00:41:11.760 | from feeling and expressing those emotions.

00:41:13.800 | And they're one of the most beautiful gifts

00:41:15.520 | that we can give other people.

00:41:17.120 | So wait, I want to ask you,

00:41:18.280 | what are your relationship challenges?

00:41:20.600 | Like either in your romantic relationship,

00:41:22.320 | in your friendship, can we dive into some

00:41:24.120 | of your particular problems?

00:41:25.720 | And I can see if I have a tip for that.

00:41:27.200 | - We moved into this new neighborhood.

00:41:28.640 | I have some friends in the neighborhood

00:41:29.840 | and we have very limited time 'cause we have kids

00:41:32.040 | and all of the friends that I was the closest with

00:41:34.760 | have dispersed around the country.

00:41:36.760 | I remember when we moved in, I asked my wife,

00:41:38.320 | I was like, do you think it would be weird

00:41:39.560 | if we wrote a postcard that was like,

00:41:41.400 | hey, we're Chris and Amy.

00:41:42.560 | We have these kids and we live on this block in town

00:41:45.200 | and we like doing these random things.

00:41:46.720 | And yeah, it's really weird if we wrote this postcard

00:41:48.560 | and dropped it in your mailbox so you can just rip it up.

00:41:50.400 | But if you read this and you're like,

00:41:51.520 | these people seem like they'd be cool to hang out.

00:41:53.080 | Why don't you shoot me an email?

00:41:54.160 | And I was like- - Did you do it?

00:41:55.120 | - No, no, we didn't do it.

00:41:56.320 | - I feel like the answer, especially in the context

00:41:59.200 | of forming relationships and friendships to,

00:42:01.160 | do you think it'd be weird if, is always like,

00:42:03.120 | no, it's not weird, just do it.

00:42:04.840 | I have this theory, it's about friendship and dating,

00:42:07.920 | but it's called match theory.

00:42:08.920 | And the idea is that if you go on a date,

00:42:10.760 | if you're meeting a new person in your life,

00:42:12.320 | the sooner that you're wholly yourself,

00:42:14.000 | the better off you'll be because even if you don't connect

00:42:16.600 | with them, that's valuable information to have

00:42:18.680 | and you have it sooner rather than later.

00:42:20.120 | If you're dressing a way you wouldn't dress on a date,

00:42:21.920 | if you're play acting in a different way,

00:42:23.960 | you're like, oh, I'm trying to impress them.

00:42:25.440 | You're not helping the ultimate goal,

00:42:27.280 | which is to find a match for yourself.

00:42:28.880 | So by you and Amy going out there

00:42:31.360 | and being unabashedly weird,

00:42:33.400 | you're gonna meet the people who wanna make friends,

00:42:35.960 | who are putting themselves out there,

00:42:37.200 | which are gonna be more likely to be your type of people.

00:42:40.760 | - I think Amy and I had a little disconnect

00:42:42.400 | on whether that was like her personality or mine

00:42:44.640 | shining through in these random postcards.

00:42:46.640 | But I think that was the thing.

00:42:47.920 | This applies to relationships, both your partner and not.

00:42:51.320 | I think so often people hang on to people

00:42:53.200 | that they think are the right person,

00:42:54.600 | not thinking there's another person

00:42:56.080 | or their best friend set.

00:42:57.680 | It's like, this is my best friend since so long ago,

00:42:59.800 | they have to still be my best friend.

00:43:01.640 | I am convinced that within maybe a quarter mile,

00:43:04.080 | there are like five couples that could be our best friends.

00:43:07.160 | And I'm trying to figure out how do I find them?

00:43:08.960 | I remember telling my wife when Bumble, the dating app,

00:43:12.080 | launched this service called BFF.

00:43:13.720 | It's like a dating app for finding your friends.

00:43:16.000 | But I just remember thinking that felt like

00:43:17.960 | such a strange thing, but it also makes total sense.

00:43:21.120 | - So many people are lonely and we all assume

00:43:23.880 | everybody else has their friend group sorted.

00:43:25.760 | We're the only person feeling the way that we're feeling.

00:43:28.000 | And so we deny ourselves the opportunity

00:43:30.440 | to put ourselves out there to like form these relationships.

00:43:33.000 | But over and over again,

00:43:33.960 | I have a community of over a million people

00:43:36.040 | that I hear from constantly.

00:43:37.320 | And the refrain is, why does everybody else

00:43:39.360 | have this sorted when I don't have this sorted?

00:43:41.400 | But if everybody is saying that,

00:43:43.080 | then everybody else doesn't have it sorted.

00:43:44.840 | So I think first of all,

00:43:46.160 | acknowledging that this is a real societal issue

00:43:49.360 | that's happening and it's happening all over to everybody

00:43:52.720 | and using that as like deep permission giving

00:43:55.320 | is so, so, so helpful.

00:43:57.040 | - So you're saying I should make the cards?

00:43:58.360 | - I definitely think you should make the cards.

00:44:00.760 | I do.

00:44:01.600 | It was interesting what you said that you think

00:44:03.440 | that we hold on to these old relationships.

00:44:05.720 | And I do think that there's a truth to the fact

00:44:07.640 | that we often gravitate towards people that we meet

00:44:10.840 | later in our life or more recently in our life

00:44:12.960 | because they reflect the person that we feel we are

00:44:15.840 | at the moment back to us.

00:44:17.160 | And we want to be reflected as the person

00:44:19.040 | that we are at that moment.

00:44:19.960 | We don't want our childhood self, our teenage self,

00:44:23.040 | our college self reflected back on us

00:44:24.920 | because we feel like we've grown and evolved

00:44:27.840 | and changed so much since being that person.

00:44:30.280 | So this is one of my favorite tips in the book.

00:44:32.400 | And I feel like it's a little bit underappreciated as a tip.

00:44:35.560 | So I wanna spotlight it for a second,

00:44:36.920 | but it's to let the people that you love

00:44:38.880 | change in front of you all of the time.

00:44:41.160 | To go to the people that you love

00:44:43.120 | with a fresh perspective as often as possible.

00:44:46.160 | So this could look like,

00:44:47.240 | hey, I know that you didn't like this food.

00:44:49.560 | Do you still not like this type of food

00:44:51.120 | or do you wanna give it a try?

00:44:52.560 | This could look like,

00:44:53.440 | oh, I know you didn't like reading this type of book

00:44:55.800 | when we were first dating.

00:44:57.400 | Is that still true?

00:44:58.760 | We don't allow the people in our lives to change

00:45:01.840 | while we're on this path towards change.

00:45:04.760 | And it doesn't make any sense.

00:45:06.240 | And so I think that sometimes we can turn

00:45:08.960 | those old relationships into really satisfying relationships

00:45:12.080 | in the present by allowing for that evolution in each other.

00:45:15.160 | - Can the opposite happen?

00:45:16.080 | Can you realize that this person that in high school

00:45:18.600 | I was best friends with,

00:45:19.840 | we said we were gonna be friends forever.

00:45:21.400 | It's not the right thing.

00:45:22.240 | Are you saying let it evolve and bring it back?

00:45:24.680 | - I think there's both.

00:45:25.520 | So first of all,

00:45:26.360 | I'm a huge fan of at the point that you think

00:45:28.600 | a relationship might be over,

00:45:30.240 | have a conversation about what you would need

00:45:32.440 | from that relationship to have it not be over

00:45:34.680 | because at that point you have nothing to lose.

00:45:36.320 | Like if you're about to cut somebody out of your life

00:45:37.800 | or just stop hanging out with them or ghost them

00:45:39.640 | or whatever, like scale back entirely,

00:45:41.680 | you have nothing to lose by saying,

00:45:43.120 | "Hey, Paul, I don't really wanna talk about high school

00:45:45.320 | whenever we hang out."

00:45:46.160 | Or, "Hey, Paul, I'm not really in a hanging out at the bar

00:45:49.400 | and drinking beer phase of my life.

00:45:51.200 | I would really love if you would come over

00:45:52.920 | and play with my kids and we could sing Disney songs."

00:45:55.480 | And then even if Paul is like, "That sounds awful.

00:45:57.720 | I'm not interested in that."

00:45:58.680 | You've lost nothing.

00:45:59.640 | And there's a chance that Paul would be like,

00:46:01.280 | "Oh my gosh, I know every single word

00:46:03.680 | to the Beauty and the Beast soundtrack

00:46:04.880 | and nobody has asked me to sing it."

00:46:06.640 | So I do think that having that conversation

00:46:09.560 | can have some really powerful results

00:46:11.560 | that we would not expect.

00:46:12.800 | And if you have nothing to lose,

00:46:14.080 | you have everything to gain by having that conversation.

00:46:16.560 | And then two, I'm not a fan of cutting people out,

00:46:18.480 | but I am a fan of changing their position in my life.

00:46:21.160 | And I think that this can be really important,

00:46:23.000 | especially when you're somebody with limited time.

00:46:25.280 | Instead of Paul being somebody you're really prioritizing,

00:46:27.920 | maybe Paul becomes,

00:46:28.960 | "I see them at the Christmas gathering," friend.

00:46:31.200 | Maybe somebody goes from being

00:46:32.760 | middle of the night secret friend

00:46:34.080 | to, "I go to yoga with them," friend.

00:46:36.400 | And I think being clear with ourselves

00:46:38.760 | about our expectations

00:46:40.400 | and what we're getting out of each friendship

00:46:42.080 | can be really helpful.

00:46:42.920 | And so sometimes moving people along in those places

00:46:45.480 | can be a way to not cut them out entirely,

00:46:47.720 | but to have them have a more right-sized presence

00:46:50.880 | in our life.

00:46:51.720 | - Okay, I feel like this has been awesome.

00:46:53.280 | One of the things I loved

00:46:54.120 | is the way you described the book wasn't,

00:46:55.480 | "You need to read all 100.

00:46:56.520 | You need to do all of these right away."

00:46:57.840 | So I already feel like I have a slate of things to work on,

00:47:01.200 | and I feel like I've got some next steps,

00:47:03.280 | and it's not the book that you've read millions of times

00:47:05.720 | that leaves you unaware of what's next and feeling stuck.

00:47:08.600 | So thank you.

00:47:09.560 | Thanks for the conversation.

00:47:10.920 | Where can people go?

00:47:12.040 | - So the book is called "100 Ways to Change Your Life."

00:47:14.680 | You can find it wherever books are sold

00:47:16.200 | or on 100waystochangerlife.com.

00:47:18.200 | Like you said, it is not a book

00:47:19.760 | that you need to consume in its entirety.

00:47:21.720 | It's a great book for while your pasta water is boiling,

00:47:24.640 | and you don't wanna just pick up your phone

00:47:25.960 | and scroll on social media again.

00:47:27.440 | You can pick it up and read a tip,

00:47:28.840 | and you get a really satisfying experience

00:47:30.560 | in that five-minute interstitial period, which I love.

00:47:33.400 | And it's a book that you can reference again and again

00:47:35.400 | as your needs and your goals change throughout your life.

00:47:37.600 | One of the first tips in the book

00:47:38.720 | is about figuring out your needs, your goals,

00:47:41.200 | and how you're going to measure success

00:47:42.760 | in terms of those needs and goals.

00:47:44.280 | I think that's hugely important

00:47:45.800 | so that we don't end up with a ton of habits

00:47:48.040 | filling our day that we don't even know why they're there.

00:47:50.040 | And then I have a podcast called "The Liz Moody Podcast,"

00:47:52.920 | which you have been a guest on, a great, great episode.

00:47:55.320 | So if you wanna hear a little bit more from Chris Hutchins,

00:47:57.480 | definitely go look for the Chris Hutchins episode

00:47:59.480 | of "The Liz Moody Podcast."

00:48:00.640 | But essentially, we take science,

00:48:02.200 | we make it really fun and interesting to listen to,

00:48:04.920 | and then we're really focused on those action tips.

00:48:06.880 | How are we applying the science to our everyday lives

00:48:09.840 | to feel the way that we wanna feel every single day?

00:48:12.160 | So that's "The Liz Moody Podcast,"

00:48:13.400 | wherever you listen to podcasts.

00:48:14.520 | And then if you're a social media person,

00:48:15.960 | I'm @LizMoody on TikTok and Instagram.

00:48:18.120 | - It's easy, Liz Moody everywhere.

00:48:19.920 | Definitely check all of that out.

00:48:21.560 | Thank you so much for being here in person.

00:48:23.400 | - Thank you so much for having me.

00:48:25.800 | - While it is a bit more work

00:48:27.080 | doing these in-person interviews,

00:48:28.560 | it's been really fun to get a chance

00:48:30.360 | to meet some of my guests face-to-face.

00:48:32.440 | I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

00:48:34.200 | I know I did, and I know I have a few takeaways from it

00:48:36.840 | that I'm gonna start putting into action already.

00:48:39.040 | If you have questions for an upcoming "Mailbag" episode,

00:48:41.720 | podcast@allthehacks.com.

00:48:43.360 | Thank you so much for listening.

00:48:45.000 | I will see you next week.

00:48:46.200 | (upbeat music)

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00:48:55.320 | (birds chirping)

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