ATHLLC1405375088
00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)
00:00:02.520 | - Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks,
00:00:05.360 | a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.
00:00:07.760 | I'm your host, Chris Hutchins.
00:00:09.040 | You're probably already familiar
00:00:10.360 | with our guest today, Robyn Arzon.
00:00:12.140 | She's the head instructor
00:00:13.260 | and leads fitness programming at Peloton.
00:00:15.000 | She's also an ultra marathoner,
00:00:16.640 | two-time New York Times bestselling author,
00:00:18.600 | who's made it her life's mission to redefine
00:00:20.800 | and rethink possibility through movement.
00:00:22.800 | Today, we're gonna talk about everything related
00:00:24.620 | to fitness, exercise, and training,
00:00:26.680 | but we're also gonna dive into motivation,
00:00:28.520 | mental strength, designing an ideal life,
00:00:30.480 | and so much more.
00:00:31.660 | I've taken hundreds of classes with Robyn,
00:00:33.440 | and I'm really excited for this episode.
00:00:35.320 | So let's jump in right after this.
00:00:37.420 | Yesterday was Giving Tuesday,
00:00:40.760 | and while I truly believe that any gift you give
00:00:43.200 | to charity is amazing, it's unfortunate
00:00:45.480 | that I see so many people giving cash instead of stock,
00:00:49.240 | which is just a lost opportunity to be more optimized.
00:00:52.700 | For example, if you give a charity $1,000 cash,
00:00:55.840 | they get $1,000, and you get $1,000 deduction on your taxes.
00:00:59.800 | However, if you give $1,000 of a stock you bought
00:01:02.520 | for $100 years ago, well,
00:01:04.800 | that stock might only be worth $700 to you
00:01:07.720 | after you factor in the taxes you owe on capital gains.
00:01:11.160 | But charities don't pay those capital gains,
00:01:13.420 | so they get the full $1,000,
00:01:15.320 | and you get to deduct the full $1,000 on your taxes.
00:01:18.920 | And when you factor in the tax savings and the deduction,
00:01:22.120 | it means that a $1,000 donation
00:01:23.960 | could only cost you a few hundred dollars,
00:01:26.400 | which I hope encourages you to be even more generous.
00:01:29.360 | Not every charity makes this easy or even possible.
00:01:32.480 | So if you wanna do what I did,
00:01:33.660 | you can just open up an account with our sponsor, Daffy.
00:01:36.700 | They make it so easy to set up
00:01:38.200 | a special tax-advantaged account called a donor-advised fund
00:01:41.560 | and make stock contributions to that account.
00:01:44.360 | Then you can use those contributions
00:01:46.000 | to give to any charities you want on your own timeline.
00:01:49.440 | They even have an awesome calculator
00:01:51.200 | I'll link to in the show notes
00:01:52.600 | to see the difference between donating cash and stock.
00:01:55.360 | And if you sign up at allthehacks.com/daffy,
00:01:58.680 | you'll not only be supporting the show,
00:02:00.660 | but you'll also get a free $25
00:02:02.880 | to give to the charity of your choice.
00:02:04.920 | Again, that's allthehacks.com/daffy,
00:02:08.160 | D-A-F-F-Y, for a better way to give.
00:02:12.000 | (upbeat music)
00:02:14.120 | - Robin, thank you so much for being here.
00:02:16.160 | - Thanks for having me.
00:02:17.320 | - You went from a lawyer who didn't really run
00:02:19.280 | to 27 marathons, a career in fitness.
00:02:21.880 | What has been the biggest lesson you've learned
00:02:23.880 | during that transformation that might be helpful
00:02:25.880 | for someone who feels a bit more like your former self?
00:02:28.800 | - Ooh, my former self.
00:02:30.640 | The first thing that came to mind
00:02:32.240 | is the fact that slowing down is actually a strength.
00:02:35.400 | I don't actually know if my former self needed that advice.
00:02:38.720 | It's more my current supercharged self.
00:02:41.040 | So maybe that will resonate to some aspects
00:02:43.420 | of your audience.
00:02:44.260 | I have a feeling it will.
00:02:45.100 | But the reason I say that is because
00:02:47.500 | I think there's more nuance to my hustle now.
00:02:50.240 | And I realize that I can zoom out enough
00:02:52.520 | and have the confidence to pull back at points.
00:02:55.440 | And then that kind of supercharges me
00:02:57.680 | once I'm back into full throttle.
00:03:00.420 | One example being the postpartum period,
00:03:03.220 | I slowed down my workouts quite a bit.
00:03:05.600 | And I was like, wow, slowing down is actually a strength.
00:03:08.440 | It actually takes a level of confidence.
00:03:10.200 | But my former self, as I was getting into it,
00:03:12.720 | when I was still a corporate litigator
00:03:14.280 | and getting into marathons and ultra marathons,
00:03:16.320 | was to trust the struggle.
00:03:19.120 | That discomfort that we feel,
00:03:21.280 | whether it's a physical workout
00:03:23.080 | or whether we're stretching ourselves
00:03:24.640 | mentally, emotionally, in business or otherwise,
00:03:27.360 | to protect ourselves, right?
00:03:28.640 | That gut instinct of, oh wait, this is new, this is scary,
00:03:31.440 | this is uncomfortable, can paralyze us.
00:03:33.700 | And what ritualizing discomfort does,
00:03:36.500 | either in the form of a Peloton workout with me
00:03:39.520 | or whatever it is, however we ritualize discomfort,
00:03:43.160 | it actually primes our system to say like,
00:03:45.760 | oh, I've been here before.
00:03:46.760 | Even if the stimuli changes, that is exciting to me.
00:03:49.400 | So I think I would tell my former self
00:03:50.920 | or anyone who feels like they're in a plateau,
00:03:52.840 | ritualize the discomfort.
00:03:54.440 | And I mean, literally, schedule it, keep showing up,
00:03:57.160 | keep getting uncomfortable every day.
00:03:59.000 | - I did an interview with someone who said
00:04:00.400 | she doesn't know that the medical science
00:04:02.160 | says anything about cold therapy,
00:04:04.200 | but she turns the shower on cold every single time
00:04:06.680 | and jumps in just 'cause she wants
00:04:08.080 | to feel uncomfortable every day to know that she can.
00:04:10.680 | - Great example of an accessible way to achieve that.
00:04:13.920 | So I know fitness was a big part of that transformation
00:04:17.200 | and you've gone on to talk a lot
00:04:19.040 | about designing a life beyond just fitness.
00:04:21.220 | So I wanna start at the fitness area
00:04:23.320 | because as an optimizer, and I think a lot of people are,
00:04:26.040 | when I think about that, I've heard you talk
00:04:27.560 | about movement being so important.
00:04:28.980 | I feel like I get so lost in this world
00:04:31.000 | of like everything I could do,
00:04:32.480 | wanting to make sure it's all perfect
00:04:34.000 | and that getting in the way of actually just going.
00:04:36.440 | And I'm sure your advice to me would be like,
00:04:37.960 | shut up, just go and get the thing done.
00:04:40.200 | But maybe we could do like a quick 101, 201 on fitness
00:04:44.160 | to try to set aside some of that confusion
00:04:46.280 | so people can jump in stronger.
00:04:48.080 | - Yeah.
00:04:48.920 | - The biggest question that I feel almost ridiculous asking
00:04:51.140 | is there's these two modes.
00:04:52.980 | You're doing cardio, you're doing strength.
00:04:54.840 | Sometimes I personally get lost in this world
00:04:57.220 | of you've got two or three days, four days a week.
00:04:59.440 | How do you even think about what to prioritize?
00:05:02.160 | - Oh gosh, the answer, like a lot of these hypotheticals,
00:05:05.520 | it depends.
00:05:06.360 | There are a lot of factors that would inform
00:05:08.140 | how somebody should be training, should be moving,
00:05:10.440 | where they're starting from, where they want to end up,
00:05:12.080 | what their goal is.
00:05:12.960 | But I would say kind of a general effective dose is both.
00:05:17.960 | I personally prioritize as the ground floor strength training
00:05:22.840 | and I mean going heavy with deadlift, squat, bench press.
00:05:27.440 | So that's at least three strength workouts a week forever.
00:05:31.000 | Strength takes years to build.
00:05:33.080 | And the cool thing is that your body really remembers
00:05:36.160 | from a muscular perspective that training.
00:05:38.580 | So your conditioning, you get back faster
00:05:40.780 | and you also lose faster.
00:05:42.100 | Really, really important, obviously,
00:05:43.340 | for cardiovascular health.
00:05:44.420 | And I love HIIT and Tabata and that kind of interval work.
00:05:48.020 | So unless I'm marathon training
00:05:50.260 | or have a distance race in the future,
00:05:52.100 | a typical week for me,
00:05:54.220 | and I recognize that I'm not necessarily the average person
00:05:56.420 | 'cause I'm literally paid to train myself,
00:05:58.660 | but I have at least four days a week of strength training
00:06:02.460 | and that includes Peloton classes also with dumbbells
00:06:05.460 | and more traditional accessory work.
00:06:07.380 | That includes barbell work,
00:06:08.580 | heavy lifting work, as I mentioned.
00:06:09.980 | So that's at least four days a week.
00:06:11.380 | And then I have at least four sessions a week
00:06:14.620 | of interval training on the bike,
00:06:16.620 | hill climbing on the bike,
00:06:17.960 | so that I'm getting kind of power and speed there.
00:06:20.420 | And then for my own running training,
00:06:22.060 | I always have at least one or two speed sessions a week
00:06:25.260 | and usually one distance run.
00:06:27.100 | And distance for me will be anything from 60 minutes
00:06:30.300 | to two hours when I'm not marathon training.
00:06:32.780 | And then obviously marathon training, it's three hours plus.
00:06:35.020 | And the volume of running takes over
00:06:37.060 | a little bit of the bike when I'm not teaching.
00:06:38.860 | But that's at least eight sessions.
00:06:41.180 | And of course, some days I'm doing two days
00:06:42.780 | and I try to carve out at least one day for recovery.
00:06:44.980 | Recovery for me is active.
00:06:46.440 | I'm still getting 10 to 12,000 steps a day,
00:06:49.180 | but I know my body well enough to know
00:06:51.300 | what's gonna fatigue it
00:06:52.500 | and what is gonna keep it at that baseline.
00:06:54.860 | Because the more you can push your limit
00:06:57.420 | but still recover within 24 to 36 hours,
00:07:00.820 | the more training you're gonna be able to get
00:07:02.260 | in a seven day micro cycle.
00:07:03.780 | The very short answer to your question
00:07:05.380 | is I would say minimum three days a week of strength
00:07:08.260 | and two to three, ideally, sessions of cardio.
00:07:12.260 | But the strength can be a little bit more
00:07:14.780 | in terms of numbers per week
00:07:16.260 | than the cycling or the running,
00:07:17.860 | especially if you're doing it in a 20 minute HIIT session,
00:07:21.140 | 20 minute Tabata.
00:07:22.100 | Like that is really gonna build
00:07:23.820 | your cardiovascular abilities.
00:07:25.500 | And then there's that zone two cardio
00:07:26.940 | that is also really important for heart health.
00:07:28.820 | But I think in terms of like training technique,
00:07:31.660 | the more technical approaches to training,
00:07:33.220 | it's strength and HIIT Tabata at least twice a week.
00:07:36.340 | - It's funny 'cause I had these roommates in college
00:07:38.420 | and they would always go to the gym nonstop.
00:07:40.580 | And they're like, we wanna be huge, we wanna be ripped.
00:07:42.340 | And I think in my mind, ever since then,
00:07:44.660 | I've been like, well, I don't care about
00:07:46.100 | looking like these dudes look like.
00:07:47.900 | And it's been like, strength doesn't matter
00:07:49.460 | 'cause I don't wanna be like them.
00:07:50.740 | And I feel like I've ignored it
00:07:52.620 | to a level that's probably not healthy.
00:07:54.420 | - Strength does matter.
00:07:55.740 | In the infinite movement game, I think strength,
00:07:58.460 | this is assuming you are already walking,
00:08:00.940 | you already do that basic element
00:08:03.140 | of you know how to get your heart rate up.
00:08:04.660 | You know, like I think your audience already gets it.
00:08:06.820 | If they know what Peloton is,
00:08:07.940 | like you probably have some minimum dose
00:08:10.260 | of a movement practice.
00:08:11.740 | What I find is that people often go too hard on easy days
00:08:16.180 | and too easy on hard days.
00:08:18.420 | So that's another variable that we need to consider
00:08:20.460 | that first of all, yes, strength does matter.
00:08:22.300 | And it's one of the most effective ways
00:08:24.060 | to armor ourselves for the infinite game.
00:08:25.940 | You know, it's like range of motion,
00:08:27.500 | being able to get up off the floor.
00:08:29.020 | Like there are really basic tests that we can do.
00:08:31.780 | And Kelly Starrett in his latest book
00:08:33.820 | has great examples of that and really practical ways.
00:08:35.980 | It's literally like, can you take off your shoe
00:08:37.460 | and pick it up off the floor?
00:08:38.620 | Like single leg work, you'll find, you know,
00:08:40.620 | in the blue zones, like one of the ways that, you know,
00:08:42.940 | we can take from those learnings
00:08:44.580 | is literally just spending more time on the floor.
00:08:46.380 | Like I spend time on the floor with my kid.
00:08:48.700 | Like I don't bring her up on the couch.
00:08:50.260 | I get down to her level for a lot of reasons.
00:08:52.380 | I'm a huge proponent of strength
00:08:53.820 | and going heavy enough in the strength work
00:08:55.700 | once you get the form down,
00:08:56.980 | unless you're in a rehabilitation setting
00:08:58.820 | or you're doing a very specific movement
00:09:00.820 | that requires lightweight.
00:09:02.020 | I'm a huge proponent of going to living in that 70 to 85%
00:09:06.900 | of your working max for most sets.
00:09:09.900 | - If someone doesn't have a good sense
00:09:11.140 | of what they should be doing for strength,
00:09:12.860 | they're like, okay, you've convinced me.
00:09:14.500 | Is it home, gym?
00:09:16.140 | Can you do it?
00:09:16.980 | Class, no class?
00:09:17.820 | Do you need an instructor to get the form down?
00:09:19.780 | What's the best way for someone
00:09:20.900 | to just get started with strength training?
00:09:22.980 | - We have beginner programs at Peloton
00:09:24.820 | that are prescriptive and progressively overload
00:09:27.780 | from week to week.
00:09:28.620 | Indie Spear has a great program.
00:09:30.060 | Olivia Amato and Maddie Nijakama
00:09:31.540 | created a beginner program specifically.
00:09:33.260 | I do think a trainer having somebody
00:09:36.180 | to model the movement is important
00:09:38.020 | as you're learning the basic squat, chest press, deadlift.
00:09:41.620 | But generally speaking, when you're getting into,
00:09:45.780 | for example, let's say you're working for 30 seconds
00:09:48.020 | or you're doing 10 reps of something.
00:09:49.740 | By the last 10 or 20% of whatever it is you're doing,
00:09:53.580 | either for time or for reps, should feel tough.
00:09:56.400 | Not so tough that you unravel
00:09:58.140 | and you can barely pick up the weight.
00:09:59.860 | I mean, there are places for that in lifting,
00:10:02.220 | but not for most general population folks
00:10:04.180 | needing to go there, especially not in the beginning,
00:10:05.900 | but it should feel tough.
00:10:07.060 | If you've been throwing around
00:10:08.660 | the same 10 pound weight for six months,
00:10:11.380 | put the volume up a little louder.
00:10:13.160 | It's not it, you're not doing it.
00:10:14.980 | You might get sweaty.
00:10:16.080 | You might feel like you achieved something,
00:10:17.780 | but you are not creating the right stimulus.
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00:13:08.380 | Okay, so we can dial things up to keep pushing ourselves.
00:13:10.980 | How important is variety?
00:13:12.580 | Like if I come up with a strength plan
00:13:14.500 | or maybe I even find a Peloton strength class I like,
00:13:16.660 | can I just do that three days a week
00:13:18.280 | or is it really important to be doing different things,
00:13:21.020 | obviously hitting all muscle groups,
00:13:22.600 | but can I just do the same one or two routines each week
00:13:26.180 | and not worry about having to change it up more than that?
00:13:28.580 | - The body loves repetition,
00:13:29.780 | and what you're changing in very small variables
00:13:32.780 | are the number of reps, the amount of weight, right?
00:13:35.340 | So there are a lot of ways
00:13:36.300 | to create that progressive overload effect.
00:13:38.220 | So the answer is yes, you can absolutely repeat workouts.
00:13:41.300 | I actually think that is the best way,
00:13:43.000 | and that's why the programs that we've built
00:13:44.620 | incorporate that principle.
00:13:46.060 | You can take any strength class with Peloton
00:13:47.780 | and it's gonna be a solid class,
00:13:49.420 | full body, upper body, lower body,
00:13:50.860 | but the key is if you find a class that you really like,
00:13:53.980 | take that same class once or twice a week,
00:13:56.940 | depending on whatever the class is,
00:13:58.940 | for four weeks, for six weeks, and then change it up.
00:14:02.140 | I think most folks respond pretty well
00:14:04.180 | to a four to six week cycle.
00:14:07.140 | You refresh and you adapt something, some element,
00:14:09.900 | whether it's the amount of reps you're doing
00:14:11.940 | in a given period, whether it's the amount of weight,
00:14:14.120 | you certainly could change the movements,
00:14:15.660 | but your body takes a few weeks
00:14:17.440 | and a consistent repetition for it to start to respond
00:14:20.860 | and grow and strengthen.
00:14:22.300 | - And on the cardio side, you mentioned HIIT and Tabata.
00:14:25.180 | How do you think about the I'm gonna go on a run
00:14:27.340 | for 30 minutes at a pace I can handle
00:14:29.480 | versus layering in some of those kind of accelerations,
00:14:32.820 | whether it's on a bike or running, I guess?
00:14:34.740 | - That is a really important place to start
00:14:37.340 | of 30 minutes of sustained effort
00:14:39.980 | using a conversational pace, right?
00:14:41.980 | So I do love the higher intensity efforts,
00:14:44.580 | but most folks aren't gonna start there and they shouldn't.
00:14:47.260 | When I started running, it was actually a walk-run method
00:14:50.660 | and I would literally jog two blocks, walk a block,
00:14:54.500 | and it was like, okay, I'm just gonna go to the next light.
00:14:56.740 | And I didn't know I was doing intervals at the time,
00:14:58.700 | but it was, there were a form of intervals,
00:15:00.520 | but I wasn't trying to demolish myself in the jog.
00:15:03.100 | It was literally just slightly faster than a block.
00:15:06.500 | That's a great place to start.
00:15:07.820 | 30 minutes three times a week
00:15:09.460 | is a really, really good goal.
00:15:11.260 | That sustained effort approach is important.
00:15:14.500 | That's more of the zone two cardio
00:15:16.140 | that we do all need for heart health,
00:15:17.780 | but you don't wanna live there indefinitely.
00:15:19.860 | And one way to start to amp it up in a run, for example,
00:15:23.460 | is to do striders.
00:15:24.620 | It's 15, 20 seconds of an eight out of 10 effort.
00:15:28.740 | You're definitely pushing it,
00:15:30.300 | but you could give more if you had to.
00:15:32.300 | And you tack that on to the end of the run.
00:15:34.860 | So let's say in your last five minutes
00:15:37.020 | of a 30-minute run where for the most of the workout,
00:15:39.740 | you could talk, you could sing along to Beyonce
00:15:41.860 | or whoever it is you're listening to in your ears.
00:15:43.540 | For me, it's Beyonce or Taylor or M.O.P.
00:15:45.860 | if you're a '90s hip hop man.
00:15:46.940 | But then at the end, in those last five minutes,
00:15:49.360 | you set a watch or for the chorus,
00:15:51.780 | you're cooking and then you get back to that jog.
00:15:54.200 | And those striders remind your body
00:15:57.020 | and they activate different types of muscle fibers
00:15:59.980 | to remind your body, this is what it feels like to run fast.
00:16:02.940 | And you will be uncomfortable
00:16:04.060 | and you have to get acquainted with that discomfort.
00:16:06.340 | And then there's a period of time usually for folks
00:16:08.420 | where you're like, oh, wow, I like that.
00:16:10.620 | And then they go maybe a little bit too far into that realm
00:16:14.060 | where every run becomes crushing intervals
00:16:17.900 | and you don't want the pendulum to swing that far either.
00:16:20.580 | So I would say at least once a week,
00:16:22.260 | you wanna choose a run or a ride where you're like,
00:16:25.220 | I'm going hard in the paint today.
00:16:26.620 | I'm working eight out of 10 when it's work time,
00:16:29.120 | when it's effort time.
00:16:30.180 | That is really important because we want that tempo pace,
00:16:33.060 | we want that uncomfortable pace.
00:16:34.620 | It doesn't have to be all out, but there are huge,
00:16:36.700 | huge benefits to that.
00:16:38.060 | - One of the most motivating things for me
00:16:40.660 | when it comes to biking or running
00:16:42.540 | is like competing with my own records or friends
00:16:45.060 | or things like that, which is why Peloton's been great
00:16:47.260 | for me on the bike.
00:16:48.420 | I'm curious, like, am I crazy to every time
00:16:50.900 | be like out there saying, can I beat the distance I ran
00:16:53.460 | in 30 minutes last time?
00:16:54.780 | Is it good to infuse some days where it's like,
00:16:57.260 | don't focus on that?
00:16:58.700 | - Yes, you should.
00:17:00.220 | If you think about the best athletes in the world,
00:17:02.020 | they're actually very rarely competing.
00:17:03.780 | They're very rarely going to that level.
00:17:06.420 | When you're starting out, the PRs happen more readily
00:17:10.180 | 'cause when you're consistently working out,
00:17:11.660 | you've never consistently worked out before,
00:17:13.500 | your body's making those adaptations.
00:17:15.660 | Once you've been training for a while,
00:17:17.060 | and you start to hit that upper echelon
00:17:19.060 | of your quote unquote perceived ceiling
00:17:21.500 | or actual physical ceiling, it doesn't really exist,
00:17:23.700 | but we can always nudge it up.
00:17:24.860 | But that nudging that ceiling up
00:17:26.780 | starts to become a little tougher.
00:17:28.620 | And the PRs are hard won,
00:17:30.820 | but not every single workout should be that.
00:17:33.660 | Use the leaderboard, whatever motivates you.
00:17:36.260 | If that's what's getting you on the bike,
00:17:37.460 | and you're like, I'm hard charging for so-and-so today,
00:17:39.820 | I mean, do it, but I would rather somebody choose
00:17:42.420 | consistency and layer on intensity
00:17:44.940 | rather than go for intensity and burnout.
00:17:47.320 | So for me, I can throttle at 85% for a long, long time,
00:17:52.320 | but I know my body, but I still choose workouts
00:17:55.260 | where I'm like, this is it.
00:17:56.340 | If I'm laid out on the floor, I'm okay with that.
00:17:58.540 | But most of my workouts aren't like that.
00:17:59.980 | Most of my workouts, I'm hovering at that eight,
00:18:02.300 | maybe nine out of 10.
00:18:03.420 | It's very rarely I'm going to a true max.
00:18:05.660 | - And you talked about rest and recovery.
00:18:07.260 | How do you think about what to do
00:18:08.820 | to make sure your body recovers
00:18:10.580 | other than just kind of take a day off?
00:18:12.420 | - This is where you have to be in tune
00:18:13.760 | with how your body is feeling.
00:18:15.500 | What does your body respond to?
00:18:17.020 | What foods are you eating?
00:18:18.180 | Fueling intentionally, getting sleep,
00:18:20.140 | and drinking water are the basics.
00:18:22.060 | Is it dope if somebody has a hyperbaric chamber?
00:18:24.380 | I mean, go you, that's awesome.
00:18:26.120 | You are oxygenated as hell, but just go to sleep.
00:18:29.220 | Get off your freaking phone and go to bed.
00:18:31.380 | You know, it's not fancy.
00:18:33.180 | It's just what you do consistently.
00:18:35.020 | - You said fuel.
00:18:35.900 | How important is nutrition
00:18:37.220 | and what you're eating to all of this?
00:18:38.700 | - Hugely.
00:18:39.540 | Fueling intentionally, noticing how your body reacts
00:18:41.860 | to certain foods is massive.
00:18:43.780 | It is not normal at 3 p.m. every day
00:18:46.700 | to feel like you just can't get through the next hour
00:18:50.000 | without a Herculean dose of caffeine.
00:18:52.280 | Those adaptations are, I think in some cases,
00:18:55.380 | tougher because food is so deeply personal.
00:18:57.940 | I mean, the act of eating, it's an intimate thing to do.
00:19:00.620 | So I get it.
00:19:01.740 | Those changes can be really tough,
00:19:03.220 | but that is what we call a keystone habit.
00:19:06.300 | How you fuel, how you move,
00:19:08.660 | impacts almost every other area of your life.
00:19:10.820 | - And what do you think some of the most common ways
00:19:12.640 | people are not doing that well when it comes to food
00:19:15.340 | and what they're fueling their body with?
00:19:16.780 | - I'll speak from my own perspective
00:19:18.420 | 'cause there's obviously nutritionists, dieticians,
00:19:20.020 | all that could inform from a more medical perspective,
00:19:22.380 | but the key for me is eating most of the time
00:19:26.580 | whole and unprocessed foods.
00:19:28.100 | And like most of what we have access to is processed.
00:19:30.580 | Like if it comes in a box,
00:19:31.740 | it's been processed in some way, shape, or form.
00:19:33.620 | I'm not saying, I mean, I get stuff from Whole Foods
00:19:35.900 | and I pull it off the shelf.
00:19:36.780 | I open boxes to eat my food, right?
00:19:38.580 | Not everything is like a sprig of parsley and broccoli,
00:19:41.620 | but most of my foods I do try to prepare
00:19:44.020 | and cook in the kitchen.
00:19:44.900 | And I find that getting into a habit of preparing foods,
00:19:47.580 | even bulk preparing a handful of things
00:19:49.640 | and then supplementing with what you have
00:19:51.260 | to ease throughout your day goes a long way.
00:19:53.500 | For me, I'm a plant-based athlete.
00:19:54.900 | I don't consume any meat or dairy
00:19:57.220 | and making sure that I'm getting protein is important.
00:19:59.820 | So plants have protein.
00:20:01.180 | A lot of folks are surprised to hear that,
00:20:02.900 | but it's making sure that I'm getting plant-based protein.
00:20:05.020 | For me, it's at least one gram per pound of body weight
00:20:08.140 | and if not more, and I'm able to do that with smoothies,
00:20:11.540 | with plants, legumes, nuts, beans,
00:20:14.100 | and then I'll make my own seitan.
00:20:15.740 | I batch prepare that, so I always have it in the fridge.
00:20:18.220 | Tempeh, soy, my family is not gluten sensitive,
00:20:21.260 | so that's how we rock.
00:20:22.700 | - And the only other thing we didn't talk about was timing.
00:20:24.460 | How do you think about when to fit all these workouts in?
00:20:27.100 | Is it personal or is it do it first thing in the morning?
00:20:30.180 | - You schedule it when you can,
00:20:31.500 | but you schedule it like an appointment.
00:20:33.020 | And I mean, you schedule it like an appointment,
00:20:34.840 | like your boss would fire you,
00:20:36.460 | like your business partner would be out,
00:20:38.320 | like your partner is shutting it down.
00:20:40.500 | I schedule my workouts, and I mean my own personal workouts,
00:20:43.540 | not when I'm literally paid to be there,
00:20:45.340 | like it's the most important meeting I have.
00:20:47.060 | And you have to be nimble, life happens,
00:20:49.020 | kids happen, stuff happens, but then you shift it
00:20:51.700 | and you have to be adaptable.
00:20:53.140 | Maybe that 45 minute workout turns into 20 minutes.
00:20:56.540 | I've had, literally before Zoom calls,
00:20:58.620 | been like, oh my gosh, the window that I had,
00:21:00.640 | I've done burpees and then got onto a podcast like this
00:21:03.180 | and just been like, okay, I did it.
00:21:04.380 | I did four minutes of burpees, here we are.
00:21:06.100 | And there are always little games
00:21:07.320 | that we can kind of play with ourselves
00:21:08.540 | to keep ourselves in it.
00:21:10.140 | Important will always be put to the side versus urgent.
00:21:14.300 | Urgent will gobble important.
00:21:15.860 | Your movement practice is important,
00:21:17.560 | but there are probably urgent things
00:21:19.220 | that are gonna come up if you don't plan accordingly.
00:21:21.340 | So that framework that you're putting in
00:21:23.900 | the most important things of your life,
00:21:25.580 | it better be clear on your calendar
00:21:27.300 | 'cause you can talk all the talk,
00:21:28.440 | you can listen to this podcast a million times in a row.
00:21:30.340 | If you're not doing it, you're not doing it.
00:21:31.820 | - I imagine that there are a lot of people listening
00:21:33.340 | who are like, yeah, I can put it on my calendar,
00:21:35.280 | but it's like, I need that commitment to myself.
00:21:37.700 | Any advice for people who are like,
00:21:39.300 | I really wanna do this,
00:21:40.580 | but it just doesn't seem to pick up traction
00:21:42.800 | or they go in spurts of, gosh, I was so active in September
00:21:46.780 | and then things came along and now all of a sudden,
00:21:49.700 | I'm maybe lucky if I run once a week.
00:21:51.700 | - We have to analyze the roadblocks, right?
00:21:53.820 | Is it you've never woken up before 7 a.m.
00:21:57.300 | and now you're scheduling 5 a.m. workouts?
00:21:59.420 | Like, that's probably gonna be a lot of work.
00:22:01.460 | You wanna make it tougher to make the bad choice.
00:22:05.020 | You also wanna surround yourself with folks
00:22:07.900 | whose default behavior is your desired outcome.
00:22:11.340 | You wanna run more, hang out with runners.
00:22:13.180 | You're listening to the running podcast.
00:22:14.960 | You're reading the running book.
00:22:16.300 | You're taking the running class with me at Peloton.
00:22:18.340 | You're following those folks on social media.
00:22:20.580 | Your ecosystem, your entertainment media diet
00:22:24.580 | also is gonna inform how you are feeling like you can act
00:22:28.740 | because community is such a linchpin in all of this.
00:22:31.020 | So is it literally finding your buddy down the road
00:22:33.780 | and saying, hey, we're gonna get up in the morning
00:22:35.180 | and do this, great.
00:22:36.220 | Is it finding somebody virtually?
00:22:37.980 | I see folks in the Peloton community all the time.
00:22:40.780 | There are 4 a.m. workout tags.
00:22:42.300 | There are 5 a.m. workout tags.
00:22:43.740 | There's the 10 p.m. workout tags.
00:22:45.220 | There are night shift workers that have found each other.
00:22:47.360 | I mean, there are ways.
00:22:48.660 | When you start believing your own BS, be wary.
00:22:51.380 | When you start telling yourself the story,
00:22:53.100 | I don't have time, replace that with it doesn't matter.
00:22:55.500 | And we have to release ourselves sometimes.
00:22:57.380 | We have to give ourselves some freedom
00:22:58.700 | to release ourselves from the expectation.
00:23:00.500 | Especially most recently, postpartum, I had this idea,
00:23:02.900 | oh my gosh, I wanna do this 60-minute workout,
00:23:04.660 | and I had my schedule, and then my toddler and my infant
00:23:07.540 | were like, LOL, what are you talking about?
00:23:10.060 | And then I would be like, okay, I've got a pocket.
00:23:12.140 | I've got 10 minutes.
00:23:12.980 | I don't know how long he's gonna sleep,
00:23:14.100 | but I'm just gonna do something.
00:23:15.580 | 90% of my workouts were completely interrupted,
00:23:18.240 | but consistently showing up to that,
00:23:20.380 | it moved the needle until I could get back into my routine.
00:23:22.780 | - It sounds like being flexible is the most important thing.
00:23:25.180 | I'm thinking vacations are coming up,
00:23:26.940 | people are traveling for the holidays.
00:23:28.620 | If you have set in your mind that your workout
00:23:30.660 | is a very specific thing,
00:23:32.220 | and if you can't do that specific thing, it's off.
00:23:34.460 | If you're not staying at one of the hotels
00:23:36.300 | that has a Peloton, and you can't work out,
00:23:38.180 | it sounds like the biggest theme
00:23:39.480 | is you've gotta throw that out of the window,
00:23:40.900 | and say, your goal is to move.
00:23:42.300 | And like, that's it. - Yes.
00:23:43.140 | - And if it can't be the perfect movement,
00:23:44.620 | it can't be the perfect exercise, who cares?
00:23:46.620 | Do something and just check it off the list.
00:23:48.800 | - 100%, that is.
00:23:50.120 | It's being nimble.
00:23:51.440 | You're showing up consistently,
00:23:52.960 | but you're nimble in the form or the execution.
00:23:55.920 | That all or nothing approach, that super binary approach,
00:23:59.000 | and ambitious folks have trouble doing this, right?
00:24:00.960 | It's like, but I put it on my calendar,
00:24:02.120 | and this is the training plan,
00:24:03.240 | and this says I must do this today, right?
00:24:05.840 | It's a little bit like of a departure
00:24:07.320 | from what we were just talking about.
00:24:08.680 | They're just shades of gray, right?
00:24:09.960 | So it's a departure only in the sense
00:24:11.800 | that it's for a temporary period of time.
00:24:13.680 | Think about the goal, the objective.
00:24:15.440 | It's your mental health, it's your physical health.
00:24:17.840 | Maybe for that week or two that you're traveling
00:24:19.880 | and you're out of your routine,
00:24:21.040 | it's not, you know, I'm trying to PR,
00:24:23.260 | I'm so focused on my Boston Marathon training
00:24:25.240 | or whatever the case is, right?
00:24:26.520 | Like, you gotta give yourself a little bit of freedom
00:24:28.320 | and zooming out, but there is something that happens,
00:24:30.720 | particularly over the holidays, that I call the avalanche.
00:24:33.440 | And it's, you miss one workout,
00:24:35.820 | you start eating things you maybe wouldn't eat.
00:24:38.120 | Listen, I'm all in favor of celebration,
00:24:39.960 | but then you create links in the chain
00:24:42.240 | where it's like two days becomes five days,
00:24:44.440 | becomes two weeks, and you're like, oh, whatever, who cares?
00:24:47.160 | Get the reins back.
00:24:48.240 | Talk to yourself like you would a friend.
00:24:49.840 | That apathy is what becomes our rabbit hole.
00:24:52.680 | Care enough to break the chain.
00:24:54.640 | For me, it's no more than two days of stuff
00:24:56.760 | that is totally out of my normal wheelhouse.
00:24:58.880 | And then I'm getting back to something
00:25:00.560 | that makes me feel like myself,
00:25:01.840 | and that's always intentional movement,
00:25:03.580 | even if that movement looks very, very different
00:25:05.400 | than my normal training schedule.
00:25:06.840 | - You've posted about this challenge in December
00:25:08.720 | to get everyone moving.
00:25:09.760 | I think it's run three miles or move for 30 minutes.
00:25:12.800 | - Yes, every day from December 1st to December 31st,
00:25:16.200 | three for 31 challenge.
00:25:17.920 | - It's great 'cause I think so many people think,
00:25:19.400 | I'll do it in January, I'll do it in January,
00:25:20.960 | and you're like, no, no, no, let's back it up.
00:25:22.440 | Do it during the hardest time,
00:25:23.880 | and then you can easily do it in January.
00:25:25.720 | - Yes, if you can commit to yourself for 31 days
00:25:28.320 | for what most folks is the busiest time of year,
00:25:30.840 | you can always do it.
00:25:31.920 | And the whole point of the challenge,
00:25:34.040 | yes, it's getting some folks moving for the first time,
00:25:36.680 | but most of the folks who are participating
00:25:38.360 | have some kind of movement practice,
00:25:39.640 | are kind of aware of their routines and habit building.
00:25:42.520 | They've probably read "Atomic Habits."
00:25:44.360 | These aren't new concepts to most of the folks
00:25:46.120 | who are participating.
00:25:47.160 | It is the idea that for 31 days,
00:25:50.120 | when the world is asking a lot of you,
00:25:51.880 | you choose yourself and you show up consistently.
00:25:54.960 | So that is the beauty of it.
00:25:56.640 | It's been 11 years now that we've been doing this challenge.
00:25:59.040 | Tens of thousands of folks have participated at this point,
00:26:01.360 | and I've seen lives change because of it.
00:26:03.080 | - It's funny 'cause as I thought about it,
00:26:04.600 | I took the commitment to the exercise as one order,
00:26:08.760 | and I thought about how to motivate myself.
00:26:11.160 | And I wanna talk a little bit about like mental toughness,
00:26:13.080 | but saying I wanna work out every day
00:26:14.840 | is actually maybe for me personally,
00:26:17.200 | not as motivating as saying,
00:26:19.280 | I'm gonna say I'm gonna work out every day,
00:26:21.560 | and I wanna be the person that does what I said.
00:26:24.080 | So it's like, it's actually the reason I'm gonna do it
00:26:26.480 | might not be that I need to work out for 31 days straight.
00:26:29.240 | It's that if I'm gonna commit to this,
00:26:30.720 | I just wanna be the kind of person
00:26:32.200 | that's gonna do the thing I commit to.
00:26:33.680 | I have two kids.
00:26:34.520 | I want them to know that if I say I'm gonna do this,
00:26:36.640 | I'm gonna do it.
00:26:37.480 | And I found that reframing things like a exercise routine
00:26:41.800 | as making the commitment and holding yourself accountable
00:26:44.720 | to the kind of person that follows through
00:26:46.600 | on their commitments is like a mental trick
00:26:48.960 | that works better than doing the thing just to do the thing.
00:26:51.840 | - Oh my gosh, I love that so much.
00:26:53.240 | That's the next level, right?
00:26:54.840 | So our values are creating our habits.
00:26:56.920 | Our habits are creating our identities.
00:26:59.760 | You need to consistently engage in a habit for long enough
00:27:02.440 | for it to inform your identity.
00:27:03.960 | - I am now just someone who shows up and slays my workout.
00:27:08.000 | Even on the days where I'm feeling like 5%,
00:27:10.160 | I'm giving 100% of the 5% that I have.
00:27:12.480 | And that becomes that identity.
00:27:14.320 | The promises that we keep to ourselves,
00:27:16.000 | the conversation that we're having with ourselves
00:27:17.640 | is the most important conversation we are gonna have.
00:27:19.800 | That's such an amazing thing to share
00:27:22.320 | because I do believe that that is the goal,
00:27:24.600 | is personalizing it enough.
00:27:26.160 | You make it matter, you make it happen.
00:27:27.720 | - Some people would say I can't make exercise
00:27:29.480 | a part of my identity until it's a habit.
00:27:31.680 | And I would argue, maybe you can just say,
00:27:33.560 | nope, as of tomorrow, I am the kind of person
00:27:35.640 | who works out four days a week.
00:27:36.800 | Post about it, tell your friends.
00:27:38.200 | You can make something your identity before you do it.
00:27:40.360 | And once it's there, then it's like,
00:27:42.080 | well, now I'm disrespecting my identity by not doing it.
00:27:45.200 | So I'm just trying to set myself up
00:27:46.840 | for a little bit more success.
00:27:48.040 | So I'll say it here, that in December,
00:27:50.360 | I am the kind of person who's going to move every day
00:27:54.160 | for 31 days.
00:27:55.000 | So now I can't not do it.
00:27:57.640 | - Yep, Chris, we heard it here first.
00:27:59.840 | And this really, this is a perfect example
00:28:02.000 | of the principles that we just talked about
00:28:03.640 | of being adaptable, of analyzing the roadblocks.
00:28:06.240 | If you know that you're traveling two days before a holiday,
00:28:09.440 | if you know you're gonna be on a long flight,
00:28:11.360 | in the car all day, what's your plan?
00:28:13.360 | I've done 3 for 31 for 11 years in a row.
00:28:15.480 | I've done miles on staircases and hotel rooms
00:28:18.240 | before 5 a.m. flights.
00:28:19.760 | I have ran up and down airport terminals
00:28:23.040 | looking like a wild woman and gotten my steps in.
00:28:26.640 | I have been the person walking up and down a flight.
00:28:28.720 | What's your plan?
00:28:29.560 | And can you make it bite-size, right?
00:28:31.280 | So let's say you're doing
00:28:32.120 | the 30 minutes of movement approach.
00:28:33.680 | You can carve out a few five-minute,
00:28:35.520 | 10-minute chunks in a day.
00:28:36.880 | Don't tell me you can't.
00:28:37.720 | How many times were you on Instagram?
00:28:39.080 | You know what I mean?
00:28:39.920 | Give me a break.
00:28:40.760 | So it's analyzing the roadblocks
00:28:42.120 | and it's figuring out who we are at the end of it
00:28:44.600 | and who we wanna be.
00:28:45.720 | We get to meet that version of ourselves.
00:28:47.280 | And for some folks that might feel like
00:28:48.600 | that's very esoteric, that's heady,
00:28:50.200 | that supercharges me.
00:28:51.280 | 'Cause I want Robin on 12/31 to be like,
00:28:53.800 | "Oh yeah, January 1st, we've been doing this.
00:28:55.680 | "This is just another day."
00:28:57.040 | - With the market always feeling uncertain
00:29:00.400 | and interest rates at all-time highs,
00:29:02.360 | the only thing I feel I know for certain
00:29:04.280 | is the importance of diversification.
00:29:06.320 | And one way I diversify my portfolio
00:29:08.680 | is with our longtime sponsor, Masterworks,
00:29:10.960 | the art investing platform.
00:29:12.720 | Now, I know art investing is unusual,
00:29:15.080 | even though I've talked about it on the show.
00:29:17.040 | But one thing I like about it
00:29:18.400 | is that data from UBS shows private assets like fine art
00:29:21.560 | can be especially valuable when looking for low correlation
00:29:24.880 | as they've historically moved independent of stocks.
00:29:27.880 | So, like I said, I invest with Masterworks myself,
00:29:30.760 | and it's been impressive to see their history
00:29:32.520 | of performance stretch over multiple years now.
00:29:35.520 | They've had 16 successful exits to date,
00:29:38.360 | netting their investors annualized returns of 10, 17,
00:29:41.520 | and even 35% this year, just to name a few.
00:29:45.000 | They've also recently launched pieces
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00:31:58.600 | - You mentioned a couple of flights, travel.
00:32:00.760 | We both have kids.
00:32:01.680 | I think I'm a year ahead of you
00:32:02.880 | with a one-year-old and a three-year-old,
00:32:04.600 | which brings all kinds of variables
00:32:07.080 | and change schedules and demands to you.
00:32:09.400 | How have you adapted this movement, exercise, fitness,
00:32:12.760 | life to a world with two children?
00:32:15.080 | - Oh my gosh.
00:32:15.920 | Well, the jogging stroller helps.
00:32:17.680 | Being able to have them just physically
00:32:20.080 | along for the ride is helpful.
00:32:21.880 | That's one.
00:32:22.720 | So that's more when I have my toddler.
00:32:23.880 | My infant isn't able to go on the jogging stroller yet.
00:32:26.120 | And then it's tag-teaming.
00:32:27.520 | Thankfully, my husband and I are really, really aligned
00:32:30.880 | on our goals.
00:32:31.720 | His movement practice is important.
00:32:32.920 | My movement practice is important.
00:32:34.400 | And we will just figure it out.
00:32:36.120 | It's like I have the kids,
00:32:37.520 | and then he runs and does a workout.
00:32:39.000 | And then again, it's being adaptable.
00:32:40.400 | I would love to go for a 60-minute leisurely run
00:32:43.300 | followed by a core work, and then breath work,
00:32:45.700 | and then the cold plunge.
00:32:47.300 | And it's like, no, I'm not doing that.
00:32:48.960 | Maybe it's a 20-minute hit run.
00:32:50.320 | Maybe it's 15 minutes.
00:32:51.600 | And then using the work-back approach.
00:32:53.280 | This is the time that I have.
00:32:54.600 | How can I fill it most intentionally
00:32:56.780 | to maximize those minutes?
00:32:58.260 | And then planning my week, right?
00:32:59.860 | So if I know, let's say, the workout that I'm gonna get
00:33:02.860 | on the family road trip or in the hotel
00:33:05.040 | is gonna look very, very different,
00:33:06.400 | then before I leave, I'll try to get in
00:33:08.920 | my barbell lifting sessions, or my long run,
00:33:10.960 | or whatever it is I'm trying to get in.
00:33:12.400 | That way, on the weekend, if it's only body weight work,
00:33:14.640 | or if it's a very quick something
00:33:16.600 | on the Peloton hardware or the app,
00:33:18.120 | you know, I'm kind of planning for that.
00:33:19.560 | Some days, it just goes out the window.
00:33:21.200 | I remember last holiday, I was pregnant,
00:33:23.600 | and my toddler, I think, was in a crib
00:33:26.280 | in the bathroom, or it was an absurd hotel setup.
00:33:29.840 | We had stuff over the windows.
00:33:31.660 | It looked very disturbing, I'm sure,
00:33:34.720 | to somebody who would just walk in.
00:33:36.800 | But time went away from us.
00:33:38.060 | We had to leave.
00:33:38.900 | I had 20 minutes to shower, get dressed,
00:33:41.880 | have her ready, and I literally just set a timer,
00:33:44.720 | and I did a three-minute AMRAP of burpees,
00:33:46.840 | and I've never done burpees faster,
00:33:49.360 | and that is still kind of my record
00:33:50.920 | for three minutes of burpees because I was like,
00:33:52.480 | I just need to do this for my own mental health.
00:33:54.400 | And that is just an example of, like,
00:33:56.600 | if you only have a few minutes, take the few minutes.
00:33:59.000 | The paralysis that you're giving yourself
00:34:01.040 | through the analysis, just go and do it,
00:34:03.320 | even if it looks different than what you wished.
00:34:05.000 | And it's telling the folks in your lives
00:34:07.040 | how important your movement practice is for you.
00:34:09.320 | You know, if you can rely on a community member
00:34:11.800 | a neighbor, an in-law, a partner,
00:34:14.360 | yes, that's a privilege,
00:34:15.640 | but they're not gonna know how to help you
00:34:16.760 | unless you ask for it.
00:34:17.760 | - Community seems really important.
00:34:19.000 | It seems like all of this comes back to mental strength,
00:34:21.760 | whether it's the strength to go
00:34:23.480 | or the strength to keep going.
00:34:24.920 | Can you share some tactics you use
00:34:26.480 | to help build that mental toughness
00:34:28.120 | that I know you're well-known for?
00:34:29.880 | - (laughs) I journal about this a lot.
00:34:32.180 | One of the reasons I wrote "Welcome, Hustler,"
00:34:33.760 | it's an empowerment journal
00:34:34.840 | filled with my mantras and prompts and questions,
00:34:36.680 | but my own journaling practice
00:34:38.000 | really informed "Welcome, Hustler."
00:34:39.640 | And I celebrate tiny victories.
00:34:42.600 | It's a visualization practice that I developed
00:34:44.540 | when I was running a lot of marathons and ultramarathons.
00:34:46.940 | It's creating your own mental movie.
00:34:48.960 | It's like you are the star of the highlight reel.
00:34:51.400 | And it's, what, three, four moments
00:34:54.100 | that fill you with pride and confidence.
00:34:56.220 | And you can run through it
00:34:57.720 | as if you were watching a preview at a movie theater.
00:35:00.980 | And that visualization practice,
00:35:02.780 | I really started more for race day,
00:35:04.920 | but I think it can take almost any context.
00:35:06.880 | It can take a business context, a relationship context,
00:35:08.720 | as long as you're priming yourself
00:35:10.560 | with a positive visual and mental and emotional trigger.
00:35:12.920 | So that mental movie reel, I think, is really important.
00:35:15.200 | And then from a journaling perspective,
00:35:16.920 | it's celebrating the small victories.
00:35:19.840 | It's remembering, especially for ambitious folks,
00:35:22.400 | we're often onto the next thing
00:35:24.160 | before we've even had an opportunity
00:35:25.720 | to appreciate what got us there.
00:35:27.600 | A gratitude reflection prompt that helps me
00:35:29.960 | is what is something that you have right now
00:35:32.840 | that you used to wish for, like you used to dream about?
00:35:36.280 | And oftentimes, I am humbled by what I wrote to write down
00:35:39.560 | 'cause I'm like, oh my gosh,
00:35:40.400 | that thing that I'm writing down
00:35:41.880 | is something that annoyed me just this morning.
00:35:44.360 | We just lose perspective really, really easily.
00:35:48.560 | But the mental toughness piece, a lot of it, for me,
00:35:51.480 | comes through my movement practice as well.
00:35:54.160 | When I'm lifting weights, when I'm running distances,
00:35:56.440 | when I'm doing that stuff, you can't tell me anything.
00:35:58.840 | When I think about my personal moments of pride
00:36:01.120 | in lifting weights and in running,
00:36:02.720 | that's something that nobody can take away from you,
00:36:04.520 | and that informs confidence.
00:36:06.320 | And it's that discomfort, it's that stickiness
00:36:08.800 | that I'm like, ooh, I've been here before.
00:36:10.560 | Like, emotionally and mentally, I've been here before.
00:36:12.720 | I have a toolkit that I know that I can keep going to,
00:36:15.480 | especially as a parent, especially to the parents out there.
00:36:17.800 | I have the breathwork.
00:36:18.800 | I'm gonna make the next best choice
00:36:20.440 | as it relates to my food
00:36:21.640 | because I wanna be fueled for greatness.
00:36:23.600 | It's the movement practice,
00:36:24.840 | even if it looks different than it did pre-kids, pre-baby.
00:36:27.600 | Those are the things that I often rely on,
00:36:29.560 | and they give me mental acuity and bravery.
00:36:33.040 | - What would you tell someone
00:36:33.880 | if you were in their ears right now,
00:36:35.120 | and they're trying to pick up time?
00:36:37.120 | So now I'm gonna try to go for a little further,
00:36:39.520 | go a little faster.
00:36:40.560 | You could just stop.
00:36:41.400 | No one's holding a gun to your head
00:36:43.000 | while you're going on a run saying, keep going.
00:36:45.200 | What's going on?
00:36:46.040 | Are you playing that trailer back in your head,
00:36:48.000 | or what are you doing to push yourself to keep going
00:36:50.120 | when things are hard?
00:36:51.080 | Or even to get started, to go out the door.
00:36:53.440 | - I mean, to go out the door, it's just start.
00:36:55.400 | It's meet yourself where you are,
00:36:56.920 | especially for folks who have stopped and are restarting.
00:36:59.720 | I think that's sometimes the toughest
00:37:01.720 | 'cause then you're comparing yourself to your former self,
00:37:04.120 | and that's tough.
00:37:04.960 | The beauty of it is you know you can get back
00:37:07.120 | to some element of that,
00:37:08.880 | even if it's not your quote-unquote glory days.
00:37:11.600 | But I call it like dreamscaping.
00:37:13.400 | I do this often in a journal.
00:37:14.680 | It's like, who do I wanna be?
00:37:15.760 | What experiences do I wanna have?
00:37:17.280 | How do I wanna feel when I get there?
00:37:18.680 | And I try to detail that as specifically as possible,
00:37:21.360 | naming it and claiming it.
00:37:22.440 | But then, from that dream
00:37:24.840 | that can be as ethereal as you want,
00:37:27.040 | what are the actions?
00:37:28.160 | Literally write down the action words and make a plan.
00:37:31.360 | A dream without a deadline is a fairy tale,
00:37:34.320 | and I'm not rocking with Cinderella.
00:37:35.680 | That is not my homegirl.
00:37:36.720 | And so, it's important for me
00:37:39.680 | to just take some semblance of action.
00:37:41.760 | I think action is actually a huge, huge antidote to anxiety,
00:37:45.460 | and focus can take the charge out of fear.
00:37:47.600 | And it doesn't need to be in grand, sweeping strokes.
00:37:51.240 | It can be super small.
00:37:52.720 | Most of the inflection points that we have in our lives
00:37:55.320 | are totally boring.
00:37:56.480 | They're subtle, little inflection points,
00:37:58.720 | and we are those thousands of small decisions.
00:38:01.480 | - And are you tracking those decisions
00:38:03.360 | to feel like you're making progress
00:38:05.120 | when most people might just completely brush over them?
00:38:07.680 | - I mean, to a certain extent.
00:38:08.920 | I'm not super mired in every tech watch
00:38:12.120 | and every data point.
00:38:13.480 | What gets measured does get managed, right?
00:38:16.040 | So, I do think that numbers matter,
00:38:18.200 | but I think that there's a tipping point
00:38:20.320 | where you're so in that and so in the metrics
00:38:23.960 | that it can actually do more harm than good.
00:38:26.000 | So, you have to decide your own relationship with that
00:38:28.560 | and see, is it helping or not?
00:38:30.200 | - Are you setting big, ambitious goals for yourself in life?
00:38:33.160 | Is that part of this practice?
00:38:34.640 | - Yes.
00:38:35.480 | I always have goals down the pipeline.
00:38:37.120 | Sure, I sure do.
00:38:38.440 | I'm a very goal-oriented person.
00:38:40.400 | - How are you tracking them?
00:38:41.720 | How many are you having?
00:38:42.760 | I'm curious because I know you've written a lot
00:38:44.800 | about kind of designing an ideal life.
00:38:46.960 | And it's like, how ambitious are you in that design?
00:38:50.720 | I've heard some people talk about,
00:38:52.560 | you should be designing this 10X version
00:38:54.840 | and forget about everything in between.
00:38:56.560 | And some people design where they wanna be next month first.
00:39:00.200 | - I think it's both.
00:39:01.040 | And I do a kind of a big,
00:39:03.480 | I would say around four times a year,
00:39:05.320 | I do vision boards and very much like business planning.
00:39:08.720 | I had a strategy sync with my team recently.
00:39:11.360 | What can we do right now?
00:39:12.480 | What can we accomplish within the year?
00:39:14.320 | What's the 10-year goal?
00:39:15.560 | So, I think you dream big and as far out
00:39:18.080 | as feels appropriate, but you better start with today
00:39:20.520 | 'cause that's what matters.
00:39:22.120 | And then do it again and then move the needle
00:39:24.280 | and get uncomfortable and do it again.
00:39:25.800 | And we're literally doing that forever.
00:39:27.560 | I am playing the infinite game,
00:39:28.760 | but having finished lines of my own making
00:39:31.800 | are very motivating to me.
00:39:33.280 | - How do you make sure that you're enjoying the journey?
00:39:36.040 | Because sometimes these goals are really far out.
00:39:38.120 | - Ooh, I'm not a patient person,
00:39:39.600 | but I've been doing this long enough to know
00:39:41.840 | that progress is often invisible.
00:39:44.080 | So, I just made the choice to fall in love
00:39:46.160 | with who I was becoming along the way
00:39:47.760 | and have little points of enchantment.
00:39:49.480 | You know, play little games with myself.
00:39:51.160 | (laughs)
00:39:52.440 | My husband laughs at me,
00:39:53.480 | but I'll be walking down the street and I'm like,
00:39:54.920 | all right, I know how long it takes to get to Sixth Avenue.
00:39:58.040 | I'm gonna see if I can do it like two seconds faster today.
00:40:00.240 | And I just play these games with myself
00:40:01.800 | and it matters to no one.
00:40:03.120 | Literally nobody in the world is gonna know it but me.
00:40:05.200 | That's just the kind of stuff
00:40:06.280 | that keeps me enchanted with the game.
00:40:09.080 | And having run 27 marathons,
00:40:11.560 | the finish line doesn't matter.
00:40:13.320 | I wanna meet the finish line.
00:40:14.360 | I respect the finish line,
00:40:15.720 | but the training has always been so much more important.
00:40:18.960 | - And I think about the way you talk about what you do now
00:40:21.200 | and it feels very authentic to who you are.
00:40:23.200 | Like I can see it in our conversation.
00:40:25.440 | And I'm guessing if you reflect on decades past
00:40:28.360 | that wasn't you,
00:40:29.280 | what do you think was helpful for you to find
00:40:30.920 | that version of yourself now that might've been,
00:40:33.640 | I don't even know if it was imaginable back then.
00:40:35.400 | (laughs)
00:40:36.520 | - Well, I have to say, yeah,
00:40:37.560 | when I was wearing like ill-fitting Ann Taylor suits
00:40:40.560 | at my law firm in the 2000s.
00:40:42.880 | (laughs)
00:40:44.360 | Oh, honey, I don't know where the swagger was,
00:40:46.280 | but she had to work hard to find it.
00:40:48.000 | I started to befriend myself on the runs, frankly.
00:40:51.000 | I was working 80 hours a week as a corporate litigator.
00:40:54.000 | I would steal little pockets of time to run
00:40:57.000 | and start to lift weights
00:40:58.240 | and started to cycle and things like that.
00:41:00.120 | And I really liked who I was when I was doing those things,
00:41:03.120 | even when I was uncomfortable.
00:41:04.480 | And I started to become very acutely aware
00:41:06.400 | of the conversation in between my ears
00:41:08.200 | when I started ultra training, especially.
00:41:10.120 | You're really aware of those thoughts get loud.
00:41:12.680 | And instead of trying to push the thoughts away,
00:41:15.160 | I got curious.
00:41:16.160 | We all have the little whispers of a goal,
00:41:18.880 | of something that we wanna pursue,
00:41:20.760 | maybe something that we shouldn't be doing.
00:41:22.520 | We know deeply, but there's a lot of noise.
00:41:25.120 | And for me, the ultra training
00:41:27.200 | helped tune out some of that noise.
00:41:29.080 | And I started to turn the whispers into roars
00:41:31.440 | by consistently training,
00:41:33.240 | putting myself in uncomfortable situations,
00:41:35.160 | starting to trust myself more.
00:41:36.760 | And I think it was born from that.
00:41:38.920 | - And do you think the same could be true
00:41:40.320 | for someone while they're painting
00:41:41.920 | or some other kind of hobby or interest
00:41:44.360 | that could one day be their career?
00:41:46.000 | - I think one of the most important pursuits as adults
00:41:49.000 | that children do innately are pay attention
00:41:51.600 | to moments of flow.
00:41:52.880 | You know, there's a lot of research in books
00:41:54.480 | about flow state and all that.
00:41:56.080 | And the flow state for me, how I can best describe it,
00:42:00.320 | is losing track of time
00:42:02.280 | when you really feel in alignment with your skillset.
00:42:04.840 | And it's not the doom scrolling loose track of time.
00:42:07.240 | And it doesn't have to be a creative pursuit, right?
00:42:08.720 | Like you could break code, you could be in spreadsheets
00:42:10.960 | and you're just like, this is my jam.
00:42:12.680 | And it's not necessarily gonna feel great.
00:42:14.520 | I think we misunderstand
00:42:16.280 | that passion often feels like frustration.
00:42:18.880 | There are many points in my day
00:42:20.840 | that I am completely frustrated
00:42:22.680 | 'cause things aren't moving fast enough
00:42:23.960 | or I'm not working hard enough.
00:42:25.240 | It's still an alignment with my skillset and my values
00:42:27.800 | and the rocket ship that I'm trying to build.
00:42:29.440 | - I mean, it's probably 'cause you care so much.
00:42:31.320 | - And it is because I care so much.
00:42:32.680 | And I wanna live a life engulfed in those flames.
00:42:36.200 | And the important thing for me is,
00:42:38.760 | especially when I left law,
00:42:39.880 | I made a commitment that I loved being in flow state
00:42:42.520 | so much, that would be my goal.
00:42:44.000 | I remember one, I had a two-year goal of like,
00:42:46.360 | what projects, commitments, experiences,
00:42:49.240 | partnerships are gonna maximize flow.
00:42:51.480 | And I got home from a long day at the office.
00:42:54.480 | It's like 11 p.m.
00:42:55.400 | I opened up the notes app on my phone
00:42:57.160 | and I wrote down the exact.
00:42:59.040 | And when I say the exact,
00:43:00.280 | the exact job I have now at Peloton.
00:43:02.440 | And this is before I had never met anyone
00:43:05.640 | related to the company.
00:43:06.640 | So getting specific, becoming more self-aware,
00:43:10.200 | telling anyone who will listen what that dream is
00:43:13.680 | and getting better at what you're already good at
00:43:16.080 | are all important things.
00:43:17.400 | - It's funny, as you were talking about that flow state,
00:43:19.080 | it made me think, for people trying to figure out
00:43:20.920 | what that thing could be for them,
00:43:22.480 | it's like, what's a thing that gets in the way
00:43:24.760 | of you doing something you want to do?
00:43:26.560 | And I say this because there are times
00:43:28.360 | where my wife and I are like,
00:43:29.360 | oh, I'm gonna cook dinner tonight.
00:43:30.800 | And then I show up like 20 minutes late.
00:43:32.640 | And I'm like, I genuinely planned on cooking dinner.
00:43:35.520 | It wasn't that I didn't think dinner was important.
00:43:37.400 | It's that I just got into this state
00:43:39.920 | where I more or less just lost track of time,
00:43:42.800 | but not because I didn't care about the commitment.
00:43:44.920 | Obviously, there are times where we don't do things
00:43:46.680 | 'cause we just don't care.
00:43:47.560 | It's like, what's that thing
00:43:48.560 | that can get you to do something,
00:43:49.960 | to break your own commitment to yourself?
00:43:52.040 | And I would say spend time on that.
00:43:53.880 | Time thinking about it, journaling, writing,
00:43:56.040 | just try to figure out what it is
00:43:57.720 | and then just relieve yourself from the expectation
00:43:59.960 | that it will be your full-time job tomorrow.
00:44:02.040 | - Yes, exactly.
00:44:03.240 | Just start doing it.
00:44:04.600 | - And is journaling a big part of all of this for you?
00:44:06.640 | - Yeah, my journaling practice has changed over the years.
00:44:09.720 | Since having kids, it used to be part of my morning routine.
00:44:12.320 | Now it's kind of getting back to my morning routine.
00:44:14.160 | Not that my son sleeps through the night,
00:44:15.600 | but I released myself from this.
00:44:17.440 | I defined what consistency meant to me
00:44:19.560 | as it related to journaling.
00:44:20.800 | And I think that's another important point.
00:44:22.320 | We don't all have to have a scribe
00:44:23.800 | and it's Ben Franklin's morning pages,
00:44:25.800 | you know, for hours by candlelight.
00:44:27.480 | You decide.
00:44:28.320 | And so journaling in the past year
00:44:30.720 | has been two to three minutes.
00:44:32.000 | I'll often use one of the prompts from my own journal
00:44:34.160 | and that it's just planting seeds, planting seeds,
00:44:36.760 | planting seeds, see what comes up.
00:44:38.280 | It might not be fruitful for a long time.
00:44:40.000 | Your season of harvest might not be coming yet.
00:44:41.920 | You might be right now just planting the seeds,
00:44:43.600 | planting the seeds, but just keep planting.
00:44:45.360 | - And what kind of big goals do you have coming forward?
00:44:47.680 | - Well, definitely as it relates to the food space,
00:44:50.640 | to cooking, to lifestyle products
00:44:53.240 | and projects and publications.
00:44:55.200 | I'm excited to get that out into the world.
00:44:57.120 | I love fashion.
00:44:58.640 | So that's something that I wanna continue exploring,
00:45:01.000 | you know, licensing deals with partners
00:45:02.840 | that I'm really proud to work with.
00:45:04.240 | And of course, continuing at Peloton
00:45:06.320 | and all the great work we do there.
00:45:07.840 | - That's a lot of things to be excited about,
00:45:09.560 | to be working on.
00:45:10.440 | How do you balance all of that excitement and passion
00:45:13.360 | and flow states with your other passion of your family?
00:45:16.200 | How do you think about that as an ambitious person?
00:45:18.320 | - I mean, I'm still figuring it out, right?
00:45:20.200 | For me, it is crucial to only say yes
00:45:23.440 | to things that feel like a hell yes.
00:45:25.120 | If I even get that smidge of like,
00:45:28.240 | I'm not sure I wanna do this.
00:45:30.200 | It's a no, it is an immediate no.
00:45:32.080 | And I don't mean like, go to the dentist.
00:45:35.040 | I don't mean like the stuff, like, you know, pay taxes.
00:45:37.560 | Like not the stuff you have to do.
00:45:38.840 | I mean, a lot of it comes in the form
00:45:41.040 | of the social commitments, the agreeing to bring the thing.
00:45:44.480 | No, no, thank you.
00:45:45.400 | I'm not available, period.
00:45:46.720 | - And is that the guiding principle
00:45:48.360 | of the way you structure your days?
00:45:49.840 | - I say no to most things, yes.
00:45:51.120 | I own my no to protect my yes.
00:45:52.920 | I communicate very clearly what it is that I want and need.
00:45:57.920 | I have now a great team, right?
00:46:01.280 | So it's not just me.
00:46:02.160 | It's not just me on the home front.
00:46:03.280 | It's not just me on the business front.
00:46:04.560 | I'm not trying to do everything.
00:46:05.960 | I shouldn't do everything.
00:46:07.040 | And I don't pretend like I do.
00:46:08.720 | I know what I'm good at.
00:46:09.640 | I'm willing to say I don't know.
00:46:10.840 | I'm willing to change my mind.
00:46:12.120 | I think that takes an immense confidence.
00:46:13.600 | I think the most confident leaders are those
00:46:15.400 | who are willing to say, I don't know.
00:46:17.200 | And listen, those are, you know,
00:46:18.560 | aspects of my day-to-day life
00:46:20.360 | that make everything possible.
00:46:21.960 | And I'm sure I'm gonna make missteps.
00:46:23.920 | I probably already have recently.
00:46:25.880 | And I'll just keep learning.
00:46:27.480 | - When it comes to learning,
00:46:28.320 | how important are mentorship, reading,
00:46:30.840 | other forms of learning for you?
00:46:32.280 | Where do you spend your time growing?
00:46:34.360 | - Oh, well, you know, I think it's so cool
00:46:36.240 | that we can really be mentored by folks
00:46:38.160 | who we've never met now, right?
00:46:39.640 | So in creating my masterclass on mental toughness,
00:46:42.280 | that was a way to create that educational hub
00:46:45.720 | and allow folks to spend time with me,
00:46:47.320 | you know, in a way that scales.
00:46:48.560 | And similarly, I'm spending time
00:46:49.960 | with some of the greatest minds in the world,
00:46:51.200 | whether it's through their podcasts,
00:46:52.400 | like this one or Rich Roll or Human Lab
00:46:54.600 | or whoever, you know, these folks who I'm just like,
00:46:57.000 | wow, I get to learn from you.
00:46:58.800 | And for me, listening to information
00:47:02.480 | is a great way for me personally to take in information.
00:47:04.920 | And I probably, on my walks,
00:47:06.520 | I'm almost always listening to something,
00:47:09.240 | to enrich growth mindset, entrepreneurship, parenting,
00:47:12.640 | like stuff that I want to move the needle a little bit
00:47:14.880 | and learn from those greatest minds.
00:47:16.520 | - Where can people that want to stay in touch with you
00:47:18.800 | and see all this stuff find you?
00:47:20.680 | - I am Raven Arzon.
00:47:22.400 | My website is ravenarzon.com.
00:47:24.440 | Check out three for 31, the number three, four, 31.
00:47:28.600 | And that is the December challenge
00:47:30.080 | that we do this year and every year.
00:47:32.200 | And of course you can see me at Peloton.
00:47:34.160 | - Awesome.
00:47:35.000 | I'll link all that in the show notes.
00:47:35.840 | I will be there for the challenge this year.
00:47:37.400 | I hope everyone listening joins as well.
00:47:39.400 | - Amazing. Thank you.
00:47:40.640 | - Thanks for being here.
00:47:41.840 | Wow, that was a fantastic conversation.
00:47:44.640 | I feel extra motivated to get out right now,
00:47:46.880 | which is probably good because I am serious
00:47:48.960 | about that three for 31 challenge.
00:47:50.680 | I welcome you all to join me
00:47:52.160 | and try to get yourself moving every single day of December.
00:47:55.160 | Also, if you celebrated Thanksgiving last week,
00:47:57.280 | I hope you had a wonderful time.
00:47:58.960 | It gave me a moment to be so thankful
00:48:01.080 | for everything in life right now.
00:48:02.880 | I really appreciate all of you
00:48:04.440 | and helping make this my dream job.
00:48:06.560 | I'm so often in that flow state Robin talked about
00:48:09.480 | when I'm working on all the hacks.
00:48:11.160 | So I am so incredibly fortunate.
00:48:13.240 | That's it for this week.
00:48:14.440 | I will see you next week.
00:48:15.680 | (upbeat music)
00:48:18.320 | (upbeat music)
00:48:20.920 | you
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