ATHLLC1127710774

00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)

00:00:01.800 | - Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks,

00:00:04.560 | a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.

00:00:07.180 | If you're new here, I'm your host, Chris Hutchins,

00:00:09.020 | and I love to travel.

00:00:10.300 | And even more, I love optimizing that travel

00:00:12.640 | to have the best experience at the lowest cost.

00:00:15.380 | And one country that's at the top of my list,

00:00:17.820 | and many of yours who've emailed in, is Italy.

00:00:20.340 | Now, technically I've been to Italy before,

00:00:22.300 | but Amy and I did Rome and Venice for two days each

00:00:25.260 | back in college almost 20 years ago.

00:00:27.240 | So at this point, it almost feels like I've never been.

00:00:30.060 | And I couldn't think of anyone better to join me

00:00:31.920 | for this episode than my good friend

00:00:33.620 | and guest from episode one, Lee Rowan,

00:00:36.360 | who runs a travel company called Savanti,

00:00:38.760 | and has been to Italy 40 to 50 times.

00:00:41.280 | So many, he actually lost track of the count.

00:00:43.760 | We're gonna talk about the places to go,

00:00:45.880 | the spectacular cuisine, the gorgeous coastlines,

00:00:48.800 | ancient ruins, and some of Italy's rich history.

00:00:51.780 | We'll also get to some of Lee's favorite

00:00:53.880 | off the beaten path locations

00:00:55.480 | for an authentically local experience,

00:00:57.800 | and hear why he thinks life

00:00:59.480 | is just that much better in Italy.

00:01:01.880 | Finally, we're gonna dive into some of the best ways

00:01:04.160 | you can use your points and miles for your trip to Italy,

00:01:06.920 | including a quick overview of a new site I've been using

00:01:09.680 | to help you get the best hotel deals with points.

00:01:12.400 | So let's get into it right after this.

00:01:14.480 | Lee, thank you for being here.

00:01:18.080 | Round three, you get to take the title

00:01:20.080 | as most visited guest.

00:01:21.480 | You already had it, but now you get it again.

00:01:23.360 | Thank you for having me here in this new setup you have.

00:01:25.920 | I'm looking around, it's really quite impressive.

00:01:28.080 | Beautiful job you've done.

00:01:29.480 | - Yeah, I took this course, DreamStudioCourse.com

00:01:32.360 | that this guy Kevin Chen created,

00:01:34.320 | and you'll get a better view

00:01:35.960 | if you're watching this on YouTube than listening,

00:01:37.560 | 'cause you can't really see it.

00:01:38.480 | You'll get an even better view

00:01:39.320 | when I start to actually record in a couple days

00:01:41.300 | with a virtual thing, because that was what I optimized for.

00:01:43.800 | But there is now an in-studio option for all the hacks,

00:01:46.860 | which we have here.

00:01:48.200 | - It's very cool, very cool.

00:01:49.040 | Thank you for inviting me in here

00:01:50.200 | to chat about one of my favorite places in the entire world.

00:01:52.880 | - Yeah, so I am excited because we started with London

00:01:56.160 | because I was going on a trip and I wanted to figure it out.

00:01:58.640 | And then we dove into Japan,

00:02:01.520 | which actually now that I think about it,

00:02:03.240 | Brandon Presser made his second appearance.

00:02:05.160 | And now we're talking to Italy,

00:02:06.540 | which I'm really excited about

00:02:08.040 | because I was about to go to London.

00:02:10.680 | I had been to Japan a lot.

00:02:12.520 | And Italy, I went on the few days

00:02:14.600 | after our college whirlwind trip,

00:02:16.440 | but it's a trip that we wanna take.

00:02:18.800 | And it's not gonna happen this year,

00:02:20.400 | but it's gonna happen in the future.

00:02:21.720 | And I'm really excited to dive in.

00:02:23.000 | I don't know a lot, so I'm glad we have the expert here.

00:02:25.840 | - Yeah, well, I appreciate you inviting me, of course,

00:02:28.440 | and giving me this chance to chat about something

00:02:30.120 | that is truly one of my favorite places

00:02:32.700 | for people, for food, for culture, for beauty, for sights.

00:02:36.460 | I mean, we could chat for much longer

00:02:38.120 | than this podcast will go

00:02:39.680 | about everything that's great in Italy.

00:02:40.840 | So I'm excited to dive into your questions

00:02:42.640 | and share some of my own passion.

00:02:45.000 | - So why do you keep going back?

00:02:47.020 | What is it?

00:02:47.860 | I mean, you just listed a bunch of things,

00:02:48.840 | but what makes Italy such a unique travel place?

00:02:51.600 | - Yeah, well, I've been to 70 countries.

00:02:53.560 | I've been very fortunate to go all seven continents

00:02:55.520 | around the world.

00:02:56.660 | And the thing that makes me feel most at home in Italy

00:02:58.920 | is just that the Italians know how to live.

00:03:01.200 | They know how to live life.

00:03:02.480 | Great food, great wine, great coffee.

00:03:05.600 | But more than all of that,

00:03:06.640 | it's just this continual enjoyment of life.

00:03:09.240 | There's the evening passeggiata, where people walk.

00:03:12.280 | Everywhere you can go, you walk, which is incredible.

00:03:14.680 | Big cities, small cities, everyone walks.

00:03:16.160 | But they're out and about,

00:03:17.180 | and they're walking from cafe to cafe.

00:03:19.160 | They're seeing friends, they're being social.

00:03:21.400 | But no one's in a hurry, no one's in a rush.

00:03:22.920 | No one's off to catch the next thing.

00:03:24.600 | They're just there living in the moment, being.

00:03:28.000 | And if you look at that as a narrative example

00:03:30.920 | of how you can live, right?

00:03:33.120 | These people have been doing this for thousands of years,

00:03:34.620 | 3000 years of civilization in Italy,

00:03:37.000 | where they're just being.

00:03:38.200 | There's no greater thing to do, or to-do list,

00:03:41.440 | or all these things that keep us busy here at home.

00:03:43.480 | It's just being.

00:03:44.800 | And that, for me, is so refreshing.

00:03:47.180 | So I feel like I have to go back and back

00:03:48.880 | to get another taste of that every chance I get.

00:03:51.160 | And of course, the food.

00:03:52.280 | When I'm there, I'm tasting that too.

00:03:53.600 | And it's incredible, the diversity and the ability

00:03:56.920 | of the Italian cuisine to take these wonderful things

00:03:59.640 | from their natural, abundant resources,

00:04:01.760 | the sea, the mountains, their fields,

00:04:04.180 | and turn them into these masterpieces on the table.

00:04:06.320 | - Okay, so I think one of the things

00:04:07.800 | I'm just gonna preface everyone to consider,

00:04:10.260 | which is a lot of times people travel

00:04:11.960 | and they say, "I gotta go do this."

00:04:13.160 | It sounds like a big attraction in Italy

00:04:15.720 | is learning to kind of relax and enjoy what you're doing.

00:04:18.860 | So maybe that's a theme that we'll just kind of keep here,

00:04:21.520 | which is as much as we might talk about

00:04:23.280 | lots of cool things to see and don't feel like

00:04:25.600 | need to spend every single moment of every single day doing.

00:04:28.560 | - That is 100%.

00:04:29.760 | The biggest takeaway I think people can take

00:04:31.600 | from this podcast is the discussion of be here now

00:04:35.040 | in the moment, the place that you are in Italy,

00:04:38.080 | knowing that you're, yeah,

00:04:39.160 | you're not gonna see all the rest of it.

00:04:40.740 | Like I've been to Italy 40 or 50 times.

00:04:43.100 | I forgot the count.

00:04:43.960 | And what's crazy is that out of all of the 20 Italian regions

00:04:48.160 | that there are, I'm still missing a few of them

00:04:50.160 | after having been there 40 times.

00:04:52.040 | And so I, an Italophile,

00:04:54.180 | somebody who loves going to Italy, speaking Italian,

00:04:56.600 | eating Italian food, seeing Italian culture,

00:04:58.400 | I still haven't seen it all.

00:04:59.640 | And I will never see it all

00:05:00.720 | because there's such a diversity in that country.

00:05:03.240 | 60 plus million people, you know,

00:05:05.200 | it's the fifth most visited country in the world,

00:05:07.000 | but there is still so much to see

00:05:09.000 | that people don't scratch beyond the surface

00:05:11.040 | and see when they do their Rome, Florence, Venice trip

00:05:14.100 | and they think they've seen Italy.

00:05:15.720 | You've seen three cities in Italy,

00:05:17.300 | come back and see everything, come see a lot more.

00:05:19.960 | - Well, I think most people listening

00:05:21.520 | probably won't in their lifetime make 40 trips to Italy.

00:05:24.880 | So it sounds wonderful, but let's just talk high level.

00:05:28.360 | Someone wants to go to Italy

00:05:30.240 | and it's impossible to see it all,

00:05:32.800 | but nobody or most people don't have 10 weeks a year

00:05:36.880 | to go spend in Italy,

00:05:37.720 | which I'm sure if they did, you would highly recommend,

00:05:40.040 | but maybe they've got a week or two

00:05:41.240 | and they're like, I wanna go see Italy.

00:05:42.420 | I wanna experience what you're talking about.

00:05:44.720 | How would you suggest they start to approach it?

00:05:46.880 | Or what are a few different approaches?

00:05:48.780 | - Yeah, great question.

00:05:50.100 | So I think the first thing to realize and understand

00:05:52.860 | is that no approach is the right approach.

00:05:54.780 | There are so many different ways of seeing Italy.

00:05:56.780 | If you look at it as like a matrix, right?

00:05:58.620 | All the different cities, all the different sites,

00:06:01.020 | all the different reasons for visiting,

00:06:02.660 | and you could go just see museums

00:06:04.580 | and be busy for 10 days in Rome alone,

00:06:07.060 | or you could do the Rome, Venice, Florence tour,

00:06:10.820 | Milan tour of all the museums

00:06:12.400 | or all the churches and historical sites

00:06:13.860 | and still not see all of the highlights

00:06:15.980 | that you could see in 10 days.

00:06:17.680 | So I think knowing that you're going into it,

00:06:19.780 | leaving a lot on the table,

00:06:21.120 | leaving things to come back and visit in the future is great.

00:06:24.320 | The second idea is knowing that it's really easy

00:06:27.080 | to burn out on too much eating, too much museuming,

00:06:29.660 | too much churching as you go to Italy.

00:06:31.520 | And so building a nice mix in an itinerary

00:06:34.160 | is a really important thing to do.

00:06:35.720 | So where do I find inspiration?

00:06:37.520 | There's a lot of really great media right now

00:06:39.980 | that focuses on an aspect of Italian culture or life.

00:06:43.680 | You know, Stanley Tucci has been doing

00:06:44.860 | for the past two years his sort of Tour d'Italia,

00:06:48.180 | and he's going to all 20 regions,

00:06:49.600 | and he's eating his way through.

00:06:51.720 | And if you look at the way

00:06:52.560 | that he's approached his episodes,

00:06:53.840 | these hour-long sort of opus,

00:06:55.640 | these hour-long bits of love to Lazio, where Rome is,

00:06:59.240 | or Campania, where they grow the tomatoes

00:07:01.480 | that become your pizza tomatoes here in the States,

00:07:04.500 | you look at him really getting to know a people

00:07:06.900 | and a culture and a place,

00:07:08.480 | something that he's very familiar with already,

00:07:10.360 | but through the lens of food and culture.

00:07:12.580 | And that's a wonderful approach for people to take,

00:07:15.100 | is they find some angle that they love,

00:07:17.520 | whether it's in a book or a TV series,

00:07:19.880 | and they say, "Hey, I want to go recreate

00:07:21.080 | an element of that on my trip.

00:07:23.040 | So I want to go to the place

00:07:24.520 | where Stanley Tucci finds the tomato

00:07:27.160 | in the field of San Marzano and says,

00:07:29.140 | "Okay, I found the real tomato.

00:07:30.960 | Now I know what it's supposed to taste like."

00:07:32.320 | That's a centerpiece for their trip.

00:07:34.080 | But there are so many blogs that are out there.

00:07:35.720 | There's so many travel advisors willing to help.

00:07:37.480 | There's so many books you can read

00:07:39.640 | about everything to eat, see, and do in Italy.

00:07:42.740 | My biggest takeaway for people, again,

00:07:45.020 | is take your time and know

00:07:46.820 | that you're not going to see it all.

00:07:47.980 | You're not going to do it all.

00:07:49.500 | And you're going to have an amazing time

00:07:51.020 | in the process of whatever you do, see, and do.

00:07:53.300 | - So I feel like I'm both more excited to go to Italy,

00:07:55.900 | and I have no idea what I should do with a week and a trip.

00:07:58.780 | Maybe give some options.

00:07:59.980 | I'm thinking one to two weeks,

00:08:02.220 | maybe let's throw out two or three things

00:08:05.020 | that you might send someone to.

00:08:06.540 | Is Rome a must include on any first trip to Italy?

00:08:10.000 | - In my opinion, yes.

00:08:11.240 | All roads lead to Rome for good reason, right?

00:08:13.600 | Look, it's the third most visited city in all of Europe.

00:08:16.800 | To me, it is a place that is happy and fun

00:08:19.920 | and lively and young and still so very old,

00:08:22.840 | full of incredible cuisine,

00:08:24.260 | full of some of the best historical sites in the world.

00:08:26.460 | Look, to me, the fact that they could build the Pantheon,

00:08:29.640 | this concrete domed roof with an open hole

00:08:33.320 | in the oculus in the center, 2,000 years ago,

00:08:36.400 | and it's still standing.

00:08:37.920 | It's still standing, it's like mind blowing.

00:08:40.120 | Like we can't build a road here.

00:08:41.720 | They can build a, 2,000 years ago,

00:08:43.720 | a dome that is in the center of town that is remarkable.

00:08:47.420 | And so when you see that,

00:08:48.360 | you have a sense of awe that returns to you,

00:08:50.800 | whether you've been there 40 times or this is the first.

00:08:53.920 | So I think Rome is absolutely an incredible place to go.

00:08:56.600 | Go see the sites, go see the touristy sites

00:08:58.520 | that are overcrowded, the Colosseum, Vatican,

00:09:01.200 | because they really are monuments to humanity

00:09:04.000 | and to an incredible society that has built

00:09:07.240 | and upkept these buildings for 2,000 years.

00:09:09.720 | But also get lost, go off the beaten path in Rome

00:09:12.400 | and don't just go to the fancy gelateria

00:09:14.880 | across from the Trevi Fountain.

00:09:16.300 | It's beautiful, it's great for Instagram,

00:09:17.900 | but go wind through the streets of Trastevere,

00:09:21.120 | across the river where the Romans live

00:09:23.060 | and the Romans go eat, and explore that little village

00:09:26.360 | and see what it's like to be in a little borgo,

00:09:28.640 | a little village inside of a big metropolitan city.

00:09:31.560 | Have a meal on a piazza where maybe you're the only person

00:09:36.080 | who doesn't speak fluent Italian, that's okay.

00:09:38.320 | You're gonna be welcomed in,

00:09:39.520 | you're gonna eat an incredible meal,

00:09:41.360 | and you're gonna see the way that the sweetness

00:09:43.340 | of doing nothing passes by in front of you on passeggiata

00:09:46.640 | as people are walking from the cafe to the restaurant

00:09:49.640 | to their home and beyond.

00:09:50.760 | - Okay, so that's Rome.

00:09:52.080 | So let's say I wanna do Rome and something else.

00:09:53.740 | What are a few options?

00:09:54.720 | - Well, from Rome within, if you draw like a big circle,

00:09:57.800 | you say I wanna take a two-hour train ride from Rome,

00:10:00.480 | you've got a ton of options, north and south.

00:10:02.880 | Traditionally, people would go south to the Amalfi Coast.

00:10:05.720 | It's incredible, it's iconic, it's beautiful.

00:10:07.720 | It's been made famous since the movies in the '50s, right,

00:10:10.600 | where you're driving along these mountainside roads

00:10:12.680 | and there's a sheer cliff 500 feet down

00:10:15.160 | and beautiful beaches and incredible food and wine.

00:10:18.000 | That's amazing, it really is.

00:10:19.400 | The downside to it is that everyone wants to be there.

00:10:21.720 | So that coast between, let's say,

00:10:24.520 | June and early September is a zoo.

00:10:27.480 | What is normally a 20-minute ride in a car or a bus

00:10:30.480 | could be an hour and a half stuck in traffic on a one lane.

00:10:33.120 | That's a bummer when you're on a limited vacation time.

00:10:35.520 | So what I would recommend is go to Amalfi,

00:10:37.840 | but maybe go in May or go in late September or October.

00:10:40.440 | The weather is still amazing,

00:10:41.720 | you can experience it and that's wonderful.

00:10:43.520 | So another piece to take away

00:10:45.040 | from the conversation is seasonality.

00:10:47.500 | You can always go to Rome, Rome is happening year round.

00:10:50.840 | Harder to go to a beach in November. (laughs)

00:10:53.580 | But the Amalfi Coast in October is still really lovely

00:10:56.240 | and you'll have a third of the crowds

00:10:58.640 | that are there throughout the year.

00:11:00.000 | Nearby Amalfi, you've got Naples,

00:11:01.720 | you've got Pompeii or Ercanuleo,

00:11:04.120 | which is the nearby town that's like a mini Pompeii

00:11:07.280 | that has incredible ruins that are really not visited.

00:11:10.640 | You can go walk amongst 2,000 year old homes

00:11:13.520 | that were damaged in the ash from Vesuvius in 79 AD

00:11:17.160 | and you can just walk around and there's no one around you.

00:11:19.840 | Whereas in Pompeii, it can be pretty busy.

00:11:21.560 | So there's little alternatives to each place along the way

00:11:25.240 | that you should try to explore.

00:11:27.000 | But if you don't wanna go south, you can always go north.

00:11:29.300 | Florence is only an hour and 20 minute train ride from Rome.

00:11:32.520 | There's trains that leave every 15 minutes.

00:11:34.680 | It's an incredible town.

00:11:35.840 | It's like a medieval village that still comes alive today.

00:11:39.600 | And I actually studied abroad there

00:11:41.680 | and did culinary school there in 2003,

00:11:44.840 | a little while ago.

00:11:46.480 | And it was just an incredible place to be young,

00:11:48.880 | to be alive and to be living in a medieval city of today.

00:11:52.440 | So great sights and sounds, amazing food.

00:11:54.560 | If you like pork, that is your city.

00:11:56.280 | If you like red wine, that is your region.

00:11:58.200 | And there's a ton to do.

00:11:59.600 | But let's say you've done Rome and you've done Florence.

00:12:01.720 | What do you do on your second or third trip back to Italy?

00:12:04.780 | Most of your flights are gonna fly either into Rome

00:12:06.800 | or into Milan in the north.

00:12:08.560 | That's where most of the flights

00:12:09.400 | from North America tend to land.

00:12:11.640 | So what I like to do is get off the beaten path

00:12:13.680 | and explore other areas that are maybe less popular

00:12:17.360 | with North American tourists,

00:12:18.580 | but still to me pack authenticity, incredible food,

00:12:22.200 | and great experiences into a small area.

00:12:24.580 | So something to consider might be Umbria,

00:12:26.600 | the green heart of Italy that's right next to Tuscany.

00:12:29.700 | You have 2000 year old villages there,

00:12:31.560 | in fact, sometimes even older to the Etruscan age.

00:12:34.680 | You've got incredible food and wine,

00:12:36.400 | and you've got a third of the tourists that are in Tuscany.

00:12:38.840 | And you're probably paying half

00:12:40.760 | to three quarters of the price as well.

00:12:42.440 | So that's a wonderful place if you feel confident

00:12:45.040 | and you're okay to get off the beaten path by yourself.

00:12:47.240 | Even if you don't speak Italian,

00:12:49.000 | you can get by in Umbria, eat, drink, and see well,

00:12:52.160 | and go see some incredible sights and sounds

00:12:54.440 | that are unlike anywhere else in the world.

00:12:56.280 | The last plug I'll make for Umbria, by the way, May 15th.

00:13:00.320 | Every year, my favorite festival

00:13:02.520 | in the whole world takes place.

00:13:03.960 | It's called the Corsa di Ceri.

00:13:05.820 | What that means is the running of the candles.

00:13:08.060 | You think running of the candles,

00:13:09.320 | how does that candle blows out when you run?

00:13:11.520 | How does that work?

00:13:13.080 | These crazy people in this town of Gubbio,

00:13:15.720 | they take these huge wooden slats.

00:13:17.700 | They're like 30 feet long.

00:13:19.760 | And a bunch of husky men hold onto them.

00:13:22.440 | And on top of the slats are these big tall columns

00:13:25.460 | with a saint on top.

00:13:26.760 | And they run these candles through the town,

00:13:29.680 | through the medieval town.

00:13:30.840 | And the walls of the buildings next to you

00:13:32.760 | are like encroaching upon these candles

00:13:35.220 | as you run through the streets.

00:13:37.380 | And they sing songs and they play trumpets and music.

00:13:40.120 | And it's insane.

00:13:41.440 | It's a party and no one outside of Italy goes there.

00:13:44.560 | It's like, not like it's a running of the bulls

00:13:46.680 | or the Tomatera in Spain.

00:13:48.540 | It's like this true Italian festival

00:13:51.760 | in the heart of Umbria.

00:13:53.200 | I've only been twice.

00:13:54.320 | I would love to go back again.

00:13:55.760 | 'Cause it's, to me, it's the most exciting element

00:13:58.920 | of seeing people in their thing, doing their thing,

00:14:01.040 | living their lives, celebrating their history and culture

00:14:03.960 | and having a blast doing it.

00:14:05.080 | - You said a couple times,

00:14:06.960 | even if you don't speak Italian,

00:14:08.800 | should anyone be nervous going to Italy

00:14:10.640 | if they speak no Italian?

00:14:12.120 | - No, because the Italians are the kindest, nicest people.

00:14:16.200 | And I say that as a overarching stereotype.

00:14:18.740 | You're gonna have your bad apples for sure.

00:14:20.580 | But the people who work in trades

00:14:23.820 | that tourists are going to be engaging with,

00:14:26.380 | restaurateurs, cafe owners, cafe workers,

00:14:29.300 | transportation people, et cetera,

00:14:31.260 | are really excited that a big lifeblood

00:14:33.620 | of the Italian economy, tourism, is back.

00:14:35.780 | During COVID, Italy was one of the places

00:14:37.580 | that locked down the hardest in Europe.

00:14:39.060 | And it was tough for Italians to even leave their homes.

00:14:42.540 | Now that you can leave your home,

00:14:44.460 | the Italians are so excited to have work again,

00:14:46.600 | to have an influx of tourists again, and to see people.

00:14:50.200 | Look, in 2019, there were 65 million tourists

00:14:53.800 | that came to Italy, okay?

00:14:55.480 | 2022, that number was down by about a third.

00:14:58.960 | And 2022 was the busiest year for tourism

00:15:01.560 | since COVID, obviously.

00:15:02.920 | So that's quite a difference,

00:15:04.200 | going from 65 million to about 40 million

00:15:06.280 | in terms of tourists.

00:15:07.680 | The tourism is huge for a country of 60 million

00:15:10.400 | that really relies on tourist dollars

00:15:12.760 | and tourist euros, I guess.

00:15:14.280 | So getting by without Italian is totally fine.

00:15:17.560 | You may end up in these off-the-beaten-path hill towns

00:15:21.040 | where they get fewer tourists.

00:15:22.000 | You may end up doing the whole pointing thing,

00:15:24.080 | the shrugging your shoulders thing

00:15:26.040 | when you don't know a word, and that's totally okay.

00:15:27.880 | The Italians roll with the punches, and they love that.

00:15:30.740 | So I would not feel worried at all

00:15:32.880 | about not speaking the language.

00:15:34.520 | Instead, I would, maybe if you have a few hours

00:15:37.320 | before you go, study up on Duolingo,

00:15:39.360 | or brush up on learning some Italian phrases online.

00:15:42.780 | A little bit of Italian will go a long way,

00:15:45.020 | and you'll never have to worry about feeling

00:15:46.880 | like you have no idea what you're saying.

00:15:48.620 | - Any other kind of cultural norms worth calling out

00:15:51.340 | so people kind of fit in and don't stand out

00:15:54.500 | like American tourists sometimes can?

00:15:56.300 | - Yeah, don't try to make a 6 p.m. dinner reservation.

00:15:58.900 | (laughs)

00:15:59.820 | The Italians, they're not the Spaniards,

00:16:01.500 | where they're eating at 11 o'clock at night,

00:16:03.140 | but they're not far off.

00:16:04.540 | They do eat on a different schedule

00:16:06.580 | than North Americans typically do.

00:16:08.340 | So breakfast is lighter.

00:16:10.140 | It's a cappuccino, coffee of some sort,

00:16:13.820 | and a croissant, or a piece of bread.

00:16:16.580 | Lunch is a big affair, and it can go on sometimes

00:16:19.100 | for two or even three hours.

00:16:20.820 | But dinner will take place usually very late.

00:16:23.680 | Seven o'clock is the absolute earliest people eat

00:16:26.140 | in the winter.

00:16:27.060 | In the summer, it's even pushed to eight or sometimes nine.

00:16:29.840 | So if you're walking around and you see the restaurant

00:16:32.500 | and it says they open up at 2100,

00:16:33.980 | don't think that it's like a nightclub.

00:16:35.220 | It's actually just their standard business hours for dinner.

00:16:38.340 | And when we were there with even young kids this summer,

00:16:41.380 | we would eat at like 8.30, nine o'clock,

00:16:43.740 | and we'd be finishing our meal at 10.30 or 11,

00:16:46.340 | and there'd be families with our kids' ages

00:16:49.300 | sitting down for dinner at 11 o'clock,

00:16:51.600 | which is really crazy.

00:16:53.640 | - Do people sleep in, or how do they make this work?

00:16:56.640 | - They do.

00:16:57.480 | They sleep in and they take a pausa pranzo.

00:16:59.260 | They take a big gap for lunch.

00:17:01.140 | So if you're working in an office, let's say,

00:17:03.260 | from about 12.30 or one, oh, about three o'clock,

00:17:06.720 | maybe a little later, you're kind of out of the office.

00:17:09.340 | People are either eating a long lunch,

00:17:10.980 | they're napping, they're just not working.

00:17:13.500 | They're going for that pasta giatta,

00:17:14.780 | whatever they're doing.

00:17:15.620 | But people do tend to take a gap in the middle of the day.

00:17:18.300 | - And so when you went with young kids,

00:17:20.100 | did you just kind of change the time schedule

00:17:22.540 | so that they were just up later and sleep in later?

00:17:25.460 | - You have to, yeah.

00:17:26.500 | And we mandated a family nap, not just kidnap,

00:17:30.260 | but a family nap every afternoon.

00:17:32.460 | 'Cause in the summer in particular,

00:17:34.140 | depending on where you are, it can be very hot.

00:17:36.260 | So having a midday nap was a nice thing.

00:17:38.480 | But, you know, it would be amazing.

00:17:40.400 | We'd see kids out at 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock at night.

00:17:42.760 | And then those same kids would be up at like,

00:17:44.600 | you know, 9.30 in the morning.

00:17:46.080 | And I'm like, how do you do it? (laughs)

00:17:48.160 | - Easy to meet local Italians.

00:17:50.920 | What's the vibe like between tourists and locals

00:17:53.680 | when it comes to meeting each other,

00:17:56.040 | trying to make friends with locals

00:17:57.900 | and kind of get a true authentic local experience?

00:18:00.080 | - Yeah.

00:18:00.920 | So I would say the more of an authentic

00:18:02.360 | and local place you're in,

00:18:03.680 | the more likely you are to meet Italians.

00:18:05.520 | And what I mean by that is Piazza Navona in Rome.

00:18:08.780 | One of the most incredible piazzas that there is.

00:18:11.220 | Beautiful fountains in the middle

00:18:12.540 | and benches all around that

00:18:13.860 | and restaurants circling the entire piazza.

00:18:16.480 | And it's an incredible place,

00:18:17.580 | but it's not built for Romans, it's built for tourists.

00:18:20.180 | Romans go there, but if you wanted to meet Romans,

00:18:22.900 | you're gonna meet them in the piazza

00:18:24.940 | around Santa Maria in Trassevere,

00:18:26.660 | the place I mentioned earlier, Trassevere.

00:18:29.300 | You're gonna meet tourists in tourist places.

00:18:32.180 | You're gonna meet Europeans or Italians in particular

00:18:35.020 | in their neighborhood, where they are.

00:18:37.840 | So what I would recommend is choose the opportunities

00:18:41.000 | to meet with people and seek them out and go find them

00:18:44.880 | because you will find them and people will want to meet you.

00:18:46.960 | They'll wanna hear your story.

00:18:47.960 | Where are you from?

00:18:48.800 | Why are you here?

00:18:49.620 | They're so proud to show off their neighborhood

00:18:51.240 | or their city or their country.

00:18:52.960 | And so when they hear,

00:18:53.800 | "Oh, wow, you're Californian, amazing.

00:18:56.280 | I've always dreamed of going to California,"

00:18:58.600 | is the thing that they'll say.

00:19:00.160 | And then they'll be so proud to show you their piazza

00:19:02.120 | and they'll be so happy that you're there.

00:19:03.800 | So find the Romans in their neighborhoods.

00:19:07.500 | Find the Italians in their cities,

00:19:09.620 | not necessarily at the tourist traps.

00:19:11.300 | - And how are you getting around Italy?

00:19:13.140 | Are you flying into one city and renting a car?

00:19:15.680 | You mentioned the train.

00:19:16.820 | I know you could probably even fly between cities.

00:19:19.100 | - The trains run pretty well.

00:19:20.500 | I mean, Mussolini did that whole thing, I guess,

00:19:23.380 | and electrified and brought trains everywhere.

00:19:26.080 | And there was some dilapidation after that.

00:19:28.860 | And the trains nowadays don't run perfectly,

00:19:31.820 | but they're fairly reliable.

00:19:33.060 | So I would say to take a train as much as you can.

00:19:34.860 | You definitely don't need to drive a car

00:19:36.220 | if you're going from city to city to city.

00:19:38.020 | When you get into the country, the trains don't run.

00:19:39.940 | And so buses run or private car transfers

00:19:43.040 | are very simple and easy to set up.

00:19:44.960 | If you're gonna be staying in Tuscany or Umbria

00:19:47.580 | and you're gonna want to explore from your hotel

00:19:49.660 | or your villa, absolutely rent a car.

00:19:52.500 | Driving in Italy is interesting, it's easy,

00:19:57.180 | but I would take caution as you drive

00:19:59.860 | because Italian drivers can be a little aggressive,

00:20:02.100 | nothing to be scared about or worried about.

00:20:03.560 | There's no road rage.

00:20:05.020 | They're just gonna pass you by

00:20:05.900 | because you're going too slow. (laughs)

00:20:07.580 | That's fine.

00:20:08.420 | Italian towns tend to be very small

00:20:10.380 | and roadways even smaller.

00:20:12.100 | So when you drive from town to town,

00:20:14.860 | it may be hard for you to find parking inside the town walls.

00:20:17.900 | Just park outside and walk in, it's easy.

00:20:19.940 | Better than trying to navigate your rental car

00:20:21.740 | through medieval streets that were really meant

00:20:24.100 | for cows and sheep, not for humans and not for cars.

00:20:26.740 | You don't want to have that on your car insurance bill.

00:20:29.180 | But as a general rule, it's easier to get around in Italy

00:20:32.580 | when you plan ahead and you know the train schedules

00:20:34.660 | from city to city and then from there,

00:20:36.940 | if you need to take a taxi or a car rental.

00:20:39.100 | - Getting the crew together isn't as easy as it used to be.

00:20:43.260 | I get it, life comes at you fast, but trust me,

00:20:46.800 | your friends are probably desperate for a good hang.

00:20:49.700 | So kick 2024 off right by finally hosting that event.

00:20:53.760 | Just make sure you do it the easy way

00:20:55.700 | and let our sponsor Drizly, the go-to app

00:20:58.660 | for drink delivery, take care of the supplies.

00:21:01.380 | All you need to come up with is the excuse to get together.

00:21:04.180 | It doesn't even have to be a good one.

00:21:06.020 | It could be your dog's birthday,

00:21:07.460 | that the sun finally came out,

00:21:09.420 | or maybe you just want to celebrate

00:21:10.900 | that you got through another week.

00:21:12.980 | With Drizly, you can make hosting easy

00:21:15.080 | by taking the drink run off your to-do list,

00:21:17.620 | which means you can entice your friends

00:21:19.380 | to leave their houses without ever leaving yours.

00:21:22.460 | And since I know you like a good deal,

00:21:24.140 | Drizly compares prices on their massive selection

00:21:26.700 | of beer, wine, and spirits across multiple stores.

00:21:29.700 | So when I really wanted to make a few cocktails

00:21:31.740 | while we were hosting family last week,

00:21:33.580 | not only could I get an Italian Amaro

00:21:35.660 | delivered in less than an hour,

00:21:37.300 | but I found it for $15 less than my local liquor store.

00:21:40.780 | So whatever the occasion, download the Drizly app

00:21:43.840 | or go to drizly.com.

00:21:45.700 | That's D-R-I-Z-L-Y.com today.

00:21:49.700 | Must be 21 plus, not available in all locations.

00:21:55.180 | I love helping you answer all the toughest questions

00:21:58.080 | about life, money, and so much more,

00:22:00.580 | but sometimes it's helpful to talk to other people

00:22:03.180 | in your situation, which actually gets harder

00:22:05.820 | as you build your wealth.

00:22:07.220 | So I want to introduce you to today's sponsor, Long Angle.

00:22:10.480 | Long Angle is a community of high net worth individuals

00:22:13.340 | with backgrounds in everything from technology,

00:22:15.500 | finance, medicine, to real estate,

00:22:17.580 | law, manufacturing, and more.

00:22:20.020 | I'm a member of Long Angle.

00:22:21.420 | I've loved being a part of the community,

00:22:23.380 | and I've even had one of the founders, Tad Fallows,

00:22:25.700 | join me on all the hacks in episode 87

00:22:27.820 | to talk about alternative investments.

00:22:30.180 | Now, the majority of Long Angle members

00:22:31.900 | are first generation wealth,

00:22:33.700 | young, highly successful individuals

00:22:35.780 | who join the community to share knowledge

00:22:37.940 | and learn from each other

00:22:39.260 | in a confidential, unbiased setting.

00:22:41.860 | On top of that, members also get access

00:22:44.140 | to some unique private market investment opportunities.

00:22:47.480 | Like I said, I'm a member,

00:22:48.900 | and I've gotten so much value from the community

00:22:51.060 | because you're getting advice and feedback

00:22:53.040 | from people in a similar situation to you

00:22:55.540 | on everything from your investment portfolio,

00:22:57.960 | to your children's education,

00:22:59.300 | to finding a concierge doctor.

00:23:01.620 | So many of these conversations

00:23:03.060 | aren't happening anywhere else online.

00:23:05.280 | So if you have more than 2.2 million in investable assets,

00:23:08.940 | which is their minimum for membership,

00:23:10.820 | I encourage you to check out Long Angle,

00:23:12.940 | and it's totally free to join.

00:23:15.060 | Just go to longangle.com to learn more,

00:23:18.180 | and if you choose to apply,

00:23:19.700 | be sure to let them know you heard about it here.

00:23:22.660 | Again, that's longangle, A-N-G-L-E, .com.

00:23:27.300 | - So you said plan ahead.

00:23:28.660 | You and I both like saving money.

00:23:30.140 | Let's say you're planning a trip.

00:23:31.260 | You've kind of figured out your itinerary.

00:23:32.740 | What are you thinking you should do ahead of time?

00:23:35.180 | Any way to get a deal,

00:23:36.360 | whether it's transportation, flights, lodging,

00:23:38.940 | what are you thinking about?

00:23:39.980 | - Yeah, so it definitely goes to say

00:23:42.980 | that the places you know you wanna go, book in advance.

00:23:46.100 | So that goes for hotels.

00:23:47.980 | It's obviously a lot cheaper to book in advance

00:23:49.740 | for most of these hotels.

00:23:51.140 | You can book a nonrefundable rate with a lot of them,

00:23:53.180 | and it'll save 10 to 20%.

00:23:54.780 | You can also call a hotel ahead of time and say,

00:23:56.220 | "Hey, listen, I see you've got a nonrefundable thing online.

00:23:58.540 | "What if I went even further and said,

00:24:00.020 | "I don't need breakfast?"

00:24:01.340 | They might even do a bigger deal with you for that,

00:24:03.180 | if you're interested.

00:24:04.020 | But booking ahead is very important for hotel trains,

00:24:06.660 | in particular.

00:24:08.060 | Your trains will be allowable to book

00:24:10.140 | between 30 and 60 days out in Italy,

00:24:12.060 | depending on the train line you're on.

00:24:14.020 | And typically, the cheapest rates are 30 to 60 days out,

00:24:17.620 | but highly recommend that.

00:24:18.860 | Also recommend restaurant reservations.

00:24:20.860 | At places you must go, book them in advance.

00:24:24.860 | But don't book every night.

00:24:26.860 | Give yourself some flexibility

00:24:28.100 | on what spontaneously might happen,

00:24:30.020 | what you wanna pop into, where you wanna go, et cetera.

00:24:33.020 | The places that you have to go,

00:24:34.340 | like the Pier Luigi in Rome or Osteria Francescana,

00:24:37.900 | if you can get in, and Modena, book those.

00:24:40.740 | Build your trip around them if you need to.

00:24:42.220 | But when you're in a place,

00:24:43.940 | don't have every single meal booked,

00:24:45.540 | because you may wanna have that spontaneity

00:24:47.140 | to just eat a bunch of prosciutto on the side of the road,

00:24:50.420 | 'cause it's really good and it's there.

00:24:52.300 | - So we talked a little bit about restaurants.

00:24:54.060 | Broadly speaking, when someone's doing research,

00:24:57.220 | is there a reliable site for Italy

00:24:59.980 | to figure out where to go, what's good,

00:25:02.100 | or what do you recommend?

00:25:03.580 | - Yeah, so I use a couple sites

00:25:06.460 | as a travel advisor myself,

00:25:07.980 | when I'm trying to figure out new and upcoming places

00:25:10.140 | to check out or to send people.

00:25:12.100 | The first is that the Italians have their own Michelin guide.

00:25:15.140 | It's called the Gambero Rosso, the red shrimp.

00:25:17.580 | And Gambero Rosso is like the Bible

00:25:19.820 | for food and wine in Italy.

00:25:21.340 | They have a fork rating.

00:25:22.940 | So if you get forks, it's a legit place, right?

00:25:25.860 | You should go.

00:25:26.700 | Up to three, I believe, or maybe it's four.

00:25:28.340 | I have to double check.

00:25:29.180 | But anyway, the more forks, the merrier, obviously.

00:25:31.820 | So check out Gambero Rosso.

00:25:34.140 | It oftentimes isn't only in Italian,

00:25:36.180 | so you might have to use Google Translate

00:25:37.660 | to figure out what's going on.

00:25:38.860 | But that's a great place to find

00:25:39.940 | off-the-beaten-path restaurants.

00:25:41.900 | Look, in a big city like Rome or Milan,

00:25:43.860 | any international, whether it's the New York Times

00:25:46.060 | or the Michelin guide or even food blogs you've read,

00:25:48.780 | they're all gonna have the same general information.

00:25:50.620 | But when you're going off the beaten path,

00:25:51.980 | a Gambero Rosso is incredible.

00:25:53.780 | And actually, I find the most joy

00:25:55.620 | in smaller Italian towns.

00:25:57.180 | And I find that if you just go a little outside

00:25:59.660 | of the tourist envelope,

00:26:00.740 | you can have these incredible culinary experiences

00:26:03.420 | that are half the price sometimes of the tourist bubbles,

00:26:06.700 | but they're so much richer and more meaningful

00:26:09.300 | and more connected to the area.

00:26:10.820 | An example, I love the Cinque Terre.

00:26:13.580 | It's one of the top spots to see

00:26:15.180 | in the north of Italy on the Italian Riviera

00:26:17.500 | in the Liguria state that borders basically,

00:26:20.820 | goes from almost Pisa all the way over to the French border.

00:26:23.700 | And it's this little horseshoe on the Italian coast.

00:26:26.140 | It's stunningly gorgeous.

00:26:27.940 | You've got the five towns of the Cinque Terre,

00:26:29.780 | you've got Genoa, you've got Portofino,

00:26:33.220 | these really iconic and incredible places,

00:26:35.380 | but they're very, very, very touristy.

00:26:37.100 | And so for me, instead of eating in Portofino

00:26:39.820 | and spending 15 euro for a panino

00:26:42.660 | that I could get three euro elsewhere,

00:26:44.940 | I rather go elsewhere and explore

00:26:46.940 | and see what else I could find and eat.

00:26:48.780 | So a great example is a town right next to Portofino

00:26:52.420 | called Rapallo.

00:26:53.980 | I actually have lived in Rapallo on and off

00:26:55.780 | a couple of times during the summers,

00:26:57.660 | because every time we have a child,

00:27:00.280 | we decide that we're gonna go to Rapallo

00:27:01.780 | and spend our parental leave there.

00:27:03.460 | It's just an incredibly magnetic place.

00:27:05.700 | But Rapallo is a town with kind of nothing to do,

00:27:09.580 | but everywhere to go easily from.

00:27:12.100 | And the eating there is exceptional.

00:27:14.780 | There's a little prosciutto place right on the harbor

00:27:18.300 | called Parla Come Mangi, Speak Like You Eat,

00:27:21.220 | that's the name of it.

00:27:22.300 | And they highlight local prosciutto and salami

00:27:24.740 | and cheese makers from around the region

00:27:27.180 | and from actually around Northern Italy.

00:27:29.400 | And that's all they sell,

00:27:30.500 | is prosciutto, cheese, salumi, and some sauces.

00:27:34.120 | It's like this amazing delicatessen experience.

00:27:36.240 | Again, you don't need to speak English going in there.

00:27:37.900 | You don't need to know what you want.

00:27:38.980 | You just kind of go in and say, hey, I like this,

00:27:41.620 | and they'll guide you through the whole experience.

00:27:43.780 | So you could go spend 15 euro

00:27:46.340 | for a panino made in Portofino, that's just fine.

00:27:50.260 | Or you can go spend 15 euro

00:27:52.620 | and get three different tastes of things

00:27:54.340 | from Parla Come Mangi, and life is good.

00:27:56.500 | You'll see it in Gambarorosso.

00:27:57.820 | You'll see it on maybe some food blogs

00:27:59.420 | 'cause it's now gained popularity.

00:28:01.060 | But that's an incredible spot.

00:28:02.180 | And the same idea, by the way,

00:28:04.220 | when I lived in Rapallo,

00:28:05.100 | we'd go down to the Cinque Terre for the day.

00:28:07.100 | We'd go see the five towns,

00:28:08.460 | but we didn't have to be there,

00:28:10.100 | immersed in them and all of the tourists'

00:28:12.340 | sort of onslaught that was there.

00:28:14.420 | And that, to me, was a great way

00:28:15.660 | of seeing and experiencing the culture,

00:28:17.420 | but not having to like be enveloped in it.

00:28:20.620 | We could choose we wanted to see the tourist experience,

00:28:23.380 | but we could also live like Italian local.

00:28:25.420 | So my recommendation is if you're going to some places

00:28:28.180 | like Como, Cinque Terre, really popular tourist sites,

00:28:31.900 | maybe even Venice, take a look at the nearby areas

00:28:35.180 | and say, does it make better sense for me

00:28:36.860 | to stay in those nearby areas?

00:28:38.740 | And then maybe pop in to the tourist spot

00:28:41.660 | for a day or two, as opposed to basing myself

00:28:45.500 | in the tourist bubble, only experiencing that.

00:28:48.580 | - And where are you staying

00:28:49.740 | when you're leaving a city center?

00:28:51.140 | I know in a lot of countries,

00:28:52.180 | it's like there's not a hotel there.

00:28:54.100 | Are you booking Airbnbs?

00:28:55.700 | Is there a different site in Italy

00:28:57.020 | that it's for finding houses or apartments?

00:29:00.020 | - Great question.

00:29:00.860 | So Italy has all ranges of accommodation.

00:29:02.900 | The most expensive hotel in Northern Italy

00:29:05.060 | outside of Venice is actually in Portofino.

00:29:07.900 | It's the Belmond there.

00:29:08.900 | And it's an incredible property.

00:29:10.580 | Right outside of Portofino, you have Santa Margherita,

00:29:13.740 | you have got Rapallo, you've got other towns.

00:29:15.620 | And in those towns, there are four and five star hotels

00:29:18.460 | that are not the Belmond, but they're lovely.

00:29:21.100 | And they're a third or a quarter of the price

00:29:23.980 | for an interestingly similar level of luxury.

00:29:26.580 | Not the same, but close.

00:29:28.740 | You, of course, can go much down market from there

00:29:30.540 | and you can find lots of wonderful things.

00:29:32.420 | The Italians are huge on camping.

00:29:34.180 | They love camping in the summer.

00:29:35.940 | So there's actually campsites within towns

00:29:38.860 | that have like motorhome or camper van style campers

00:29:42.420 | that you can rent sometimes.

00:29:43.740 | And that's a really fun way of getting local and immersed.

00:29:47.380 | Airbnb is huge there, VRBO more in the outskirts

00:29:51.060 | when you're getting into villas and homes outside of town.

00:29:53.660 | So you can definitely do that.

00:29:54.660 | But honestly, what I like to do

00:29:55.900 | is look around on booking.com, hotels.com,

00:29:58.620 | get a feel for some of the hotels

00:30:00.580 | that are selling through those channels

00:30:02.380 | that I may not recognize internationally.

00:30:04.740 | And then I go right to their websites

00:30:06.100 | and I find what are their specials, what are their deals.

00:30:08.740 | I reach out to them through their contact form

00:30:10.580 | or through their booking form and say,

00:30:11.660 | "Hey, this is when we're coming.

00:30:13.300 | "We don't need this.

00:30:14.220 | "We don't need a breakfast.

00:30:15.100 | "We don't need a suite.

00:30:16.060 | "We're barely gonna be in the room.

00:30:17.260 | "What do you got?"

00:30:18.220 | And they'll absolutely do a deal with it.

00:30:19.380 | The best part about some of these Italian hotels too

00:30:21.460 | is that they won't take a deposit.

00:30:23.660 | They'll just take your credit card.

00:30:25.180 | And when you get there, you pay.

00:30:26.220 | So some of them have very flexible cancellation policies

00:30:28.460 | as well if you go that route.

00:30:30.260 | Or if you prepay and you make it non-refundable,

00:30:31.980 | you can even get a better deal sometime.

00:30:33.380 | - And what about the kind of typical chain hotels?

00:30:36.220 | Are they worth considering?

00:30:37.220 | Are there Hyatt's, Marriott's, Hilton's kind of thing?

00:30:40.180 | - All over the place.

00:30:41.020 | All over the map, yeah.

00:30:41.940 | Actually, the funniest thing I think

00:30:43.180 | is that the best Western brand here in North America,

00:30:46.860 | not exactly the nicest hotels.

00:30:48.660 | If you go to Italy,

00:30:49.540 | they're actually not that bad in some places.

00:30:51.540 | And surprisingly, the best Westerns

00:30:53.580 | in off-the-beaten-path cities are actually okay.

00:30:57.180 | And now granted, not my preference always,

00:31:00.300 | but it's a good economical way of staying

00:31:02.620 | when maybe the competition nearby

00:31:04.420 | is another 100 euro more.

00:31:05.980 | But yes, if you've got Hyatt points or Marriott points

00:31:08.020 | and you want to use them in the big cities,

00:31:09.900 | there's definitely opportunities to do so.

00:31:12.300 | In Italy in particular,

00:31:13.420 | you should look out for small luxury hotels

00:31:15.700 | that are often part of the Hyatt,

00:31:17.500 | sort of world of Hyatt program.

00:31:19.300 | Those oftentimes will allow for outsized value

00:31:22.740 | where you can use your Hyatt points

00:31:24.740 | to save on these boutique hotels

00:31:27.020 | that would otherwise be very, very expensive.

00:31:28.980 | Personally for me, when I'm in big cities,

00:31:30.940 | Italy has some of the most incredible hotels

00:31:33.180 | that are not parts of big brands.

00:31:35.180 | So it's really fun to experience some of those hotels.

00:31:38.420 | There's one in particular,

00:31:39.380 | it is part of the Relais Chateau Marketing Partnership,

00:31:42.660 | but in Rome, it's called Palazzo Manfredi

00:31:45.500 | and it is at the Colosseum.

00:31:48.260 | And when I say at the Colosseum,

00:31:49.300 | I mean there are suites

00:31:50.420 | that if you open up your sliding door,

00:31:52.580 | the Colosseum is in front of you.

00:31:54.340 | There is an unobstructed view,

00:31:55.900 | nothing between you and the Colosseum.

00:31:57.980 | That's incredible.

00:31:58.820 | And where else in the world do you get that?

00:32:00.340 | And so sure, you could stay at the St. Regis,

00:32:02.900 | which is an incredible property in Rome, beautiful,

00:32:05.300 | but you can also stay at the Colosseum.

00:32:07.500 | So to me, it's like when you're in Rome,

00:32:09.740 | when in Rome, when you're in Italy,

00:32:12.060 | you should, you know, Il San Pietro on the Amalfi Coast,

00:32:15.660 | that family that's been running that hotel for 40 years now,

00:32:19.780 | they've built by hand every single room into a rock

00:32:24.540 | on the side of a cliff overlooking Positano.

00:32:27.500 | There's nothing like that in the world.

00:32:29.100 | - Which hotel is this?

00:32:29.940 | - Il San Pietro, and they are incredible hoteliers.

00:32:34.060 | They've mastered the art of luxury hotel.

00:32:36.900 | Food is remarkable.

00:32:37.820 | It's got a Michelin star and it's in Gambarodo.

00:32:39.860 | So it's just an incredible experience,

00:32:41.780 | but you know, you could choose to stay

00:32:44.180 | at like a whatever hotel nearby,

00:32:47.980 | or you could stay in this icon,

00:32:49.980 | this place that is truly incredible.

00:32:51.700 | There's nothing like it in the world.

00:32:53.500 | So when I look at the big bucket list trip to Italy,

00:32:57.300 | I look at staying in some places like that.

00:32:59.020 | If they're available, if they're affordable,

00:33:01.260 | if not, absolutely use your points at the St. Regis.

00:33:03.980 | It's an incredible place.

00:33:05.540 | - But it sounds like if you're gonna take

00:33:06.780 | three or four trips and you've got points

00:33:08.340 | for not all of them, maybe Italy's one

00:33:10.620 | where you're not gonna use your points

00:33:12.420 | for hotels or lodging.

00:33:13.820 | - That's correct.

00:33:14.660 | And I would prepare to find then the boutiques,

00:33:17.420 | the other cool places, the three, four, five star hotels,

00:33:20.300 | the B&Bs, honestly, that are a good fit

00:33:23.380 | for what you want in that city.

00:33:25.380 | And don't be afraid to look around

00:33:26.540 | and comparison shop all over the place,

00:33:28.380 | and then reach out directly to the hotelier

00:33:30.060 | and say, "Hey, these are my dates, what can we do?"

00:33:32.780 | - What about when you're in the city

00:33:34.740 | and you wanna do things?

00:33:35.820 | Do you need to set up tours?

00:33:37.300 | Do you need to set up guides?

00:33:38.220 | Do you get lost on your own?

00:33:39.580 | How do you find them?

00:33:40.500 | What about booking activities, booking thing?

00:33:42.620 | - Yeah, all of the above. (laughs)

00:33:44.340 | So look, there are some bucket list things

00:33:46.100 | that you're gonna wanna see in Rome, right?

00:33:48.380 | You're gonna wanna go to the Vatican.

00:33:49.860 | You're gonna wanna maybe go to the Coliseum

00:33:51.340 | if you're into that.

00:33:52.180 | And so you're gonna wanna pre-book those as much as you can.

00:33:54.820 | Vatican in particular, the thing I like to do

00:33:57.140 | is the Vatican Museum sells this on their website,

00:34:00.140 | so you don't need to buy a special tour for it.

00:34:01.660 | But Breakfast at the Vatican, it's called.

00:34:04.380 | You actually go to the Sistine Chapel pre-opening,

00:34:07.700 | and you're part of a very small group of people

00:34:09.620 | that can do that.

00:34:11.060 | And then you will have breakfast after the fact

00:34:13.260 | at the Vatican in their cafeteria.

00:34:15.340 | That's an incredible way of seeing

00:34:17.140 | one of the most amazing sites in all of the world.

00:34:19.940 | It's usually very crowded throughout the day.

00:34:22.500 | So getting in a little early

00:34:23.580 | is worth the extra dollars or euros.

00:34:25.380 | Now, if you wanted to completely privatize

00:34:27.140 | that experience too, find other people.

00:34:29.260 | We can do that.

00:34:30.100 | But that's a lot more money and a lot more consideration

00:34:33.820 | than just buying a ticket online.

00:34:35.700 | But the dates you know you're gonna be in Rome,

00:34:37.820 | especially those dates that may be

00:34:39.060 | like you've just arrived the day before,

00:34:40.740 | and you know you're gonna be all jet lagged the day later,

00:34:42.540 | like buy the early morning tickets.

00:34:44.100 | Make sure that you get in to have that experience

00:34:47.100 | as privately as you can.

00:34:48.580 | But do leave space for spontaneity and what you might find.

00:34:52.660 | And do feel free to sort of throw your afternoon plans away

00:34:55.780 | 'cause you're just into the vibe of this cafe

00:34:57.700 | or this piazza and you just wanna sit there

00:34:59.580 | and watch for a little bit, right?

00:35:01.780 | So I like to have structured and semi unstructured time

00:35:04.940 | in all the itineraries I put together.

00:35:06.540 | Now, on a city by city basis, there's so much to do.

00:35:10.260 | I definitely recommend looking around

00:35:11.940 | on various guide websites to see who can do what

00:35:15.740 | according to what style of tour or experience you want.

00:35:19.060 | You know, there's a Jewish ghetto in Rome

00:35:20.580 | and there's a great historical food tour

00:35:22.780 | that we often combo.

00:35:24.100 | And that again, leads into then sitting at a cafe

00:35:27.060 | or at someone's restaurant and parlando un po,

00:35:29.500 | chatting a little bit for the next three hours

00:35:31.180 | after that tour.

00:35:32.020 | Or we do a sidecar tour of a couple of these different cities

00:35:34.780 | where you actually hop in a motorcycle sidecar

00:35:36.940 | and drive around and get to see the historical sites.

00:35:39.780 | And you never know where you might end up

00:35:41.180 | or where you might stop on that tour.

00:35:43.260 | So some of those kinds of fun experiences,

00:35:46.620 | pre-planned with flexibility in the end,

00:35:49.180 | works really, really well.

00:35:50.420 | - If you don't have plans,

00:35:51.820 | I always like taking free walking tours.

00:35:54.300 | I feel like they're always led by young, excited people

00:35:57.900 | who wanna show off their town.

00:35:59.380 | They're working for tips.

00:36:00.580 | So that's something you can do in any city I imagine.

00:36:03.340 | I've found them almost everywhere.

00:36:04.780 | So I've said that a lot,

00:36:06.220 | but I think it's a great thing to do

00:36:07.620 | if you don't have anything planned

00:36:08.740 | and you decide you wanna do something

00:36:10.140 | and you haven't booked it in advance.

00:36:11.460 | - Absolutely.

00:36:12.300 | And I would say like, take inspiration from websites

00:36:15.620 | that actually have lists of tours that they offer.

00:36:17.940 | Whether you use those tours or not yourself,

00:36:20.700 | take inspiration.

00:36:21.540 | Understand what they're showing you

00:36:22.820 | because that's clearly a good guide

00:36:24.300 | for what you should see in that town.

00:36:25.940 | And so what I like to do is go look at Context Travel.

00:36:28.700 | They're great tours.

00:36:29.780 | We do a lot of them, a lot of work with them.

00:36:31.660 | Or even like Airbnb Experiences.

00:36:33.420 | And just see what people are offering in that area

00:36:35.860 | so you know what you should focus on

00:36:38.020 | or not focus on while you're there.

00:36:39.540 | But don't feel like you need to buy

00:36:41.100 | the expensive private tour all of the places.

00:36:43.820 | You know, in the height of summer in Rome,

00:36:45.700 | in Florence, in Venice, in Milan,

00:36:47.900 | it's gonna be busy

00:36:48.820 | and there's gonna be a lot of people there.

00:36:50.500 | So maybe you do wanna take a private tour somewhere.

00:36:53.100 | But outside of those times or those places,

00:36:56.140 | maybe you can be okay dealing with some crowds.

00:36:59.220 | The exceptions to those rules

00:37:00.420 | are places that have timed entry tickets.

00:37:02.620 | The Accademia in Florence, where you see the David.

00:37:05.180 | Or the Uffizi, where you see Botticelli's work

00:37:07.700 | and a lot of the Renaissance paintings.

00:37:09.220 | Or in Milan, when you wanna go see The Last Supper.

00:37:11.900 | Those things are very time controlled.

00:37:13.460 | You need to have a ticket.

00:37:14.660 | And you'll see as you research your tours,

00:37:16.460 | it'll say, "Hey, this includes a timed entry to blank."

00:37:19.500 | But what I would say is some of the best parts of Italy

00:37:22.340 | are just getting lost and wandering on your own.

00:37:24.740 | And maybe you don't know what's in front of you,

00:37:26.540 | but that's okay.

00:37:27.380 | It's beautiful nonetheless.

00:37:28.980 | And you're there.

00:37:29.820 | And so just be there and enjoy it.

00:37:31.580 | - I know we hit a lot of places,

00:37:33.820 | but I'm curious if there are any that we left off

00:37:35.940 | that you wanna talk about.

00:37:37.900 | - So I think it's important as we record this,

00:37:39.580 | it's 2023 and the White Lotus is like the thing

00:37:44.060 | in the media right now.

00:37:45.340 | And it's their season two, which was filmed in Sicily.

00:37:48.300 | And it was filmed at the Four Seasons in Taormina

00:37:50.940 | at the San Domenico Palace.

00:37:52.100 | It's beautiful.

00:37:53.180 | Stunning property that they put a bunch of money into,

00:37:55.780 | redeveloped and it's gorgeous.

00:37:56.980 | And it's amazing to see the impact of that show

00:37:59.220 | and what has happened to travel desire around Sicily.

00:38:02.220 | Sicily is always a constant for North Americans.

00:38:04.580 | We wanna go there.

00:38:05.860 | A lot of people with Italian roots came from Sicily

00:38:08.660 | or had family in Sicily.

00:38:10.420 | And so people wanna go see their genealogy

00:38:12.820 | and they wanna go see the sights and sounds of Sicily.

00:38:15.220 | So it's always busy,

00:38:16.060 | but this year it's exceptionally busy.

00:38:18.140 | So I would say, A, book now.

00:38:19.940 | There's a lot of interest.

00:38:21.380 | But B, know that Sicily is a place

00:38:23.060 | where you could easily spend two weeks

00:38:25.220 | and not see a fraction of it.

00:38:27.540 | The area around Taormina,

00:38:29.220 | which is where they filmed White Lotus is incredible.

00:38:31.980 | You've got the Etna volcano,

00:38:34.140 | you've got Catania, Ragusa, Siracusa,

00:38:36.700 | all these amazing towns that are on the East side of Sicily.

00:38:40.540 | Full of history and culture and art and food

00:38:42.460 | and food and food and food.

00:38:43.900 | So you could just spend two weeks there

00:38:45.340 | bouncing around from town to town with your own car

00:38:48.220 | and you'd be happier than you know what to do with.

00:38:51.900 | But I would also recommend

00:38:52.860 | heading a little further West in Sicily.

00:38:55.300 | The town of Agrigento has some of the best Greek temples,

00:38:59.340 | better preserved, in fact,

00:39:00.820 | than some of those you'd find in Greece.

00:39:02.380 | And then there's Palermo, which is incredible.

00:39:04.100 | Right North of Sicily, you've got the Aeolian Islands.

00:39:06.660 | The word volcano comes from an island

00:39:09.020 | in that little island chain

00:39:10.100 | because there's a giant volcano on it.

00:39:11.900 | It's called Volcano.

00:39:13.460 | So I'd go there or Stromboli

00:39:15.180 | or some of these amazing places in the summer

00:39:16.820 | that have lava and mud baths and beautiful beaches

00:39:20.700 | and it's just you and the volcano.

00:39:23.140 | So Sicily is incredibly in demand.

00:39:26.260 | Puglia on the heel of Italy,

00:39:28.260 | another place incredibly in demand.

00:39:30.380 | Hotels, especially luxury hotels,

00:39:32.580 | are popping up left and right down there.

00:39:34.460 | And if you like the orecchiette pasta,

00:39:36.540 | the kind of ear shaped pasta, that's its home.

00:39:39.340 | If you like sausage and peppers, that's their home.

00:39:42.420 | If you like beautiful white sand beaches

00:39:45.100 | with no one on them for a kilometer, that's your home.

00:39:48.900 | And it's an incredible place where you can go and explore,

00:39:51.620 | spend a week, 10 days, not see the same thing twice,

00:39:55.100 | and eat the best meals of your life.

00:39:57.260 | And it's not as expensive as Tuscany or Umbria

00:40:01.020 | or elsewhere in the North.

00:40:02.420 | So in the South, those are my winners.

00:40:04.440 | Sicily, Puglia, and they make for great vacations.

00:40:07.940 | Do keep in mind if you go in the very heart of summer

00:40:10.220 | in July and August, it's hot.

00:40:12.260 | Talking could be easily over 100 degrees Fahrenheit each day.

00:40:16.660 | That's pretty toasty down there, but it's beautiful.

00:40:18.940 | And the sea is warm and refreshing.

00:40:21.720 | Another area that I would also recommend

00:40:23.740 | as a side trip from the Amalfi Coast,

00:40:27.580 | everyone always goes to Capri.

00:40:29.140 | The island of Capri is incredible and beautiful

00:40:31.500 | and it's stunning.

00:40:33.780 | It's a sight to see, but it's also very expensive

00:40:36.180 | and it's very crowded.

00:40:37.580 | And you get the sense when you're there

00:40:40.660 | that there aren't really any caprese.

00:40:42.980 | That's people who live in Capri.

00:40:45.380 | You don't find the locals.

00:40:46.700 | You find people serving tourists.

00:40:48.640 | So my recommendation would be go to a neighboring island

00:40:51.940 | right across the Gulf called Ischia, I-S-C-H-I-A.

00:40:56.300 | There you'll find true Italians.

00:40:58.580 | It's a place that is volcanic in origin.

00:41:01.560 | So you have mud baths and hot springs

00:41:04.740 | and crazy stuff all over the place.

00:41:06.780 | You have people who are so happy and so proud

00:41:10.380 | to show you their island, 'cause it's less touristed.

00:41:13.540 | And you have the ability to get around in,

00:41:16.340 | whether it's a rental car or a Vespa,

00:41:18.300 | or actually they drive these little things called apes,

00:41:20.420 | little, called bees.

00:41:21.940 | They're a little like farm equipment,

00:41:23.280 | like a lawnmower with a couple of seats,

00:41:26.040 | but they're stylish and they drive you around

00:41:28.700 | the island in those.

00:41:30.320 | And you can really get to know the culture

00:41:31.940 | and the people and the restaurants that way.

00:41:34.460 | And at a third of the price of Capri.

00:41:35.940 | - So I think we hit everything.

00:41:37.100 | Anything in the north, we moving up the coast, any?

00:41:39.280 | Let's talk about the north.

00:41:40.500 | - In the north, you have Venice.

00:41:42.180 | And the Venice is an incredible place

00:41:44.020 | to go for a night or two.

00:41:45.740 | If you're gonna stay in Venice

00:41:47.300 | and you've never been before,

00:41:48.460 | I absolutely recommend you stay overnight,

00:41:50.300 | at least one night, probably no more than two.

00:41:52.740 | The reason is that there's a lot of day trippers

00:41:54.420 | that come in and out of Venice.

00:41:55.660 | And you'll want to see the city at night

00:41:57.740 | when most of the tourists leave.

00:41:59.140 | It's a magical place.

00:42:00.680 | But if you've been to Venice before

00:42:01.860 | and you haven't been to the area around Venice,

00:42:04.020 | and that could be anywhere from Trieste,

00:42:06.060 | which is all the way to the east, close to Slovenia,

00:42:09.180 | or even the Dolomites about an hour or two north of Venice,

00:42:12.560 | then you need to go back to that eight region

00:42:14.420 | and go see those places.

00:42:16.040 | The true heart for me of the Veneto,

00:42:19.040 | which is the area around Venice,

00:42:20.680 | is not necessarily in Venice proper,

00:42:23.580 | but it's the area around it.

00:42:24.600 | It's the rich farmland, the Palladian villas,

00:42:27.840 | the beautiful mountains and the other cities,

00:42:30.280 | especially canal cities that make that area so rich.

00:42:34.000 | So I would say, make sure you see Venice.

00:42:36.000 | It's incredible.

00:42:36.880 | St. Mark's Square, nothing like it in the world.

00:42:40.200 | And then get out of town.

00:42:41.420 | Go see something nearby.

00:42:42.540 | - I feel like we hit a lot.

00:42:44.580 | I think someone listening to this

00:42:46.000 | maybe has some inspiration for their next trip.

00:42:48.100 | - Or they're totally overwhelmed.

00:42:49.180 | - Or they're totally overwhelmed.

00:42:50.360 | Maybe listen to it twice.

00:42:51.420 | You mentioned a few places that you love.

00:42:53.740 | Are there any other things that when you think of,

00:42:56.000 | if you were going on a tour through a lot of these places

00:42:58.140 | that are like, you gotta eat here,

00:42:59.680 | you gotta have a drink here, you gotta have a coffee here,

00:43:02.180 | are there anything like standouts

00:43:03.800 | that maybe aren't the obvious ones

00:43:05.480 | that someone searching blogs are gonna find?

00:43:07.780 | - For sure.

00:43:08.620 | As a general rule, as I said earlier,

00:43:09.960 | I love looking at Gambaroro.

00:43:11.340 | So I love looking at the Michelin guide.

00:43:13.620 | I love to understand what,

00:43:14.980 | it doesn't need to be three or even two starred.

00:43:17.460 | What's Bib Gourmand?

00:43:19.060 | What is a good place to go check out

00:43:20.980 | that's local and legit?

00:43:22.700 | And I start there.

00:43:23.540 | And then I look at actually TripAdvisor in Italian reviews.

00:43:26.640 | Again, if you don't speak Italian,

00:43:28.200 | take the TripAdvisor reviews in Italy from Italian people

00:43:32.320 | and Google translate them into English.

00:43:33.980 | You'll get a real sense of what something is

00:43:35.940 | from an Italian's perspective

00:43:37.260 | that's different from a non-Italian.

00:43:40.180 | Let's put it that way.

00:43:41.020 | So I like to read some of those

00:43:42.580 | to really understand what's great.

00:43:44.540 | And then I go back 20, 30 years

00:43:46.540 | and see what's still standing in a spot for so long

00:43:49.980 | that I need to go to.

00:43:51.500 | I mentioned earlier that I used to live in Rapallo.

00:43:53.580 | There's a coffee shop in Rapallo

00:43:55.300 | that's been around since the 70s

00:43:57.420 | that they sell a particular style of biscuit in the morning.

00:44:01.940 | I'm not a biscuit eater,

00:44:03.220 | but this biscuit with their coffee is like amazing.

00:44:06.460 | It's called canepa, C-A-N-E-P-A.

00:44:09.420 | And so it's not like I need to go to Italy to have that,

00:44:12.840 | but when I'm there or nearby,

00:44:14.740 | that's the only thing I eat for the week

00:44:16.260 | or whatever it is of time that I'm in Italy.

00:44:17.900 | In Rome, there's a place called Panella, P-A-N-E-L-L-A.

00:44:21.900 | They make out of an old school coffee machine,

00:44:24.500 | kind of looks like a samovar almost.

00:44:26.460 | They pull espresso and then they whip it

00:44:29.100 | with a zabaglione, egg yolks and sugar.

00:44:32.620 | And they make this cream.

00:44:34.540 | And so you can go get an espresso

00:44:36.220 | with espresso zabaglione cream on top.

00:44:39.060 | That is to die for.

00:44:41.180 | And I could literally, Chris,

00:44:42.180 | tell you 150 of these things, okay?

00:44:44.340 | But the point is, is that none of these

00:44:45.860 | are like undiscovered gems that no one's ever heard of.

00:44:48.300 | They've been around for 30 years, 50 years, 100 years,

00:44:50.540 | doing their thing, selling their one item

00:44:52.860 | that makes them spectacular.

00:44:55.020 | And so every town you go to will have this,

00:44:57.940 | from big or small.

00:44:59.180 | And it's just a question of you seeking them out

00:45:01.060 | and finding your own that's exciting to you.

00:45:03.300 | You may not like coffee.

00:45:04.380 | And so those two examples I gave you are terrible, right?

00:45:06.860 | That's fine.

00:45:07.940 | But you'll find the thing that makes the Italians,

00:45:10.820 | the locals, super proud and makes everybody write about it

00:45:14.100 | and talk about it and eat it and drink it

00:45:15.540 | and experience it themselves.

00:45:17.020 | - And if you're someone like me

00:45:18.300 | and you're a bit of an over-optimizer

00:45:19.860 | trying to find the perfect place,

00:45:21.380 | is Italy the kind of place that you can fall into a trap

00:45:23.780 | of just walking down the street and picking the wrong place?

00:45:26.020 | Or is it just like, just go pick any place

00:45:28.220 | that looks crowded with people

00:45:29.460 | that look like they're speaking Italian

00:45:31.220 | and you're gonna have a great meal?

00:45:32.340 | - The latter, for sure.

00:45:33.700 | If you find where the Italians are,

00:45:35.980 | you're gonna have a blast.

00:45:37.100 | If you find a menu in seven languages,

00:45:39.140 | beware, you have your hackles up,

00:45:40.980 | but know that if you're gonna follow the Italians

00:45:43.180 | and get lost and be off the beaten path,

00:45:45.780 | and it might be a little uncomfortable

00:45:47.060 | 'cause you may not speak Italian

00:45:48.340 | and you may not know where you're going.

00:45:49.500 | Trust your instincts, trust your nose,

00:45:51.180 | you're gonna find something great.

00:45:52.220 | - And you can get back with Google Maps.

00:45:53.660 | Like it's not, you're not lost.

00:45:55.140 | - Or you could tell people,

00:45:55.980 | "Hey, I don't know where I'm going.

00:45:56.820 | Can you help me?"

00:45:57.660 | And they will help you.

00:45:58.500 | They're not gonna take advantage of you.

00:45:59.420 | They're not brutal people.

00:46:00.680 | They're lovely, wonderful people.

00:46:02.060 | If you start it by saying,

00:46:03.160 | "Oh, I'm so happy that I got lost here.

00:46:05.740 | How do I get back?"

00:46:06.580 | (laughs)

00:46:07.420 | They'll help you right out.

00:46:09.000 | - Our next partner has a product

00:46:10.460 | I literally use every day.

00:46:12.460 | I started taking AG-1 from Athletic Greens

00:46:14.940 | because I wanted an easy way

00:46:16.440 | to get my daily nutritional insurance

00:46:18.380 | and optimize my immune system.

00:46:20.300 | And it's been in my routine for almost a year.

00:46:22.820 | Because when you take one scoop of AG-1,

00:46:25.140 | you're absorbing 75 high quality vitamins,

00:46:27.660 | minerals, whole food source superfoods,

00:46:29.940 | probiotics, and adaptogens

00:46:31.620 | to help you start your day right.

00:46:33.300 | Every morning, I mix it up with some cold water,

00:46:35.820 | add a few ice cubes because it tastes so good cold,

00:46:38.960 | and head to my office feeling focused

00:46:41.020 | and energized for the day,

00:46:42.540 | which is a feeling I absolutely love.

00:46:45.060 | I also love that it has less than one gram of sugar

00:46:47.820 | and no GMOs, nasty chemicals, or artificial anything.

00:46:51.500 | To make giving it a try easy,

00:46:53.300 | Athletic Greens is gonna give you a free one year supply

00:46:56.380 | of immune supporting vitamin D

00:46:58.260 | and five free travel packs with your first purchase.

00:47:01.740 | All you have to do is visit allthehacks.com/athleticgreens.

00:47:06.620 | Again, that's allthehacks.com/athleticgreens

00:47:11.260 | to take ownership over your health

00:47:12.940 | and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance.

00:47:15.880 | I just wanna thank you quick for listening to

00:47:19.420 | and supporting the show.

00:47:20.900 | Your support is what keeps this show going.

00:47:23.740 | To get all of the URLs, codes, deals,

00:47:26.460 | and discounts from our partners,

00:47:28.220 | you can go to allthehacks.com/deals.

00:47:31.780 | So please consider supporting those who support us.

00:47:35.020 | Any parting thoughts?

00:47:36.740 | We didn't go too deep into specific things,

00:47:39.380 | but I feel like you left people with a few ideas

00:47:41.540 | of what to try.

00:47:42.420 | Any other standouts?

00:47:43.500 | - We'll talk a little bit about Airlift,

00:47:44.860 | getting to and from Italy,

00:47:46.100 | because there's a couple of gems here you wanna know about

00:47:48.620 | and a few you can avoid, right?

00:47:50.660 | So Alitalia, which is actually an acronym,

00:47:53.980 | it's now a dead airline.

00:47:54.900 | It's the old state airline that Italy used to have.

00:47:57.460 | It died in 2019, 2020.

00:47:59.300 | But it was A-L-I-T-A-L-I-A, Alitalia.

00:48:03.020 | It literally means to Italy or the wings of Italy,

00:48:06.080 | depending on how you translate it.

00:48:07.160 | But it was the acronym for always late in takeoff

00:48:10.260 | and late in arrival, which is not nice.

00:48:12.640 | They're dead now and their resurrection

00:48:14.640 | is called ITA Airlines.

00:48:16.340 | It's the same thing.

00:48:17.580 | I would sort of avoid them if I could.

00:48:19.620 | They're just meh at best.

00:48:22.300 | The business class is fine, but economy's pretty terrible.

00:48:25.580 | But all of your U.S. carriers,

00:48:27.380 | your Delta, United, American, et cetera,

00:48:29.820 | they all fly nonstop from Gateway Hubs to Rome

00:48:32.540 | and some to Milan.

00:48:34.160 | But the best experience getting to Milan

00:48:35.820 | is gonna be on Emirates.

00:48:37.680 | Now Emirates flies from JFK to Milan,

00:48:40.140 | and then that same aircraft continues on to Dubai,

00:48:42.220 | and then it goes back.

00:48:43.500 | So I would recommend if you can get on business class

00:48:46.100 | or ideally first on that flight, do so.

00:48:49.340 | Emirates just recently made changes to award redemption

00:48:52.100 | for that particular route, which is a bummer.

00:48:55.680 | But sometimes on Emirates partners like Alaska and others,

00:48:57.900 | you can still find it.

00:48:58.940 | So take a look at that.

00:49:00.300 | As a general rule of thumb,

00:49:01.720 | I would actually prefer to fly through Paris

00:49:04.140 | if you're gonna fly on Air France La Premiere.

00:49:06.260 | If you're flying in true luxury,

00:49:07.900 | then take a nonstop from North America to Italy.

00:49:10.620 | Just that extra stop,

00:49:11.920 | even though it adds another hour or two,

00:49:13.260 | it's such a nicer experience than flying United Polaris.

00:49:16.740 | But there is gonna be a new United Polaris flight

00:49:19.580 | from San Francisco to Rome nonstop coming up starting in May,

00:49:22.980 | and that'll definitely help with lift from the West Coast.

00:49:25.980 | In terms of getting around inside of Italy,

00:49:28.160 | none of the airlines that fly intra-Italy are great,

00:49:30.740 | so don't splurge for business.

00:49:33.340 | Business class in intra-Italy

00:49:35.060 | is literally just an empty economy seat.

00:49:37.920 | It's blocked off.

00:49:39.100 | So it's not necessarily something I would say

00:49:41.480 | is worth two or three times the price.

00:49:43.340 | - Which by the way, seems to be this case

00:49:45.300 | with almost every European airline.

00:49:47.740 | If you're booking an international flight

00:49:49.620 | using points in business

00:49:50.900 | and you get the intra-Europe flight in business for free,

00:49:53.980 | why not?

00:49:54.820 | But you will be wildly underwhelmed

00:49:56.300 | if you've never had that experience

00:49:57.720 | because it's literally just a blocked seat in between you.

00:50:00.700 | - Exactly.

00:50:01.540 | - And in fact, if you're traveling with someone,

00:50:03.400 | depending on the airline,

00:50:05.100 | sometime that seat is actually blocked.

00:50:07.260 | Like you can't actually lift up the armrests.

00:50:09.820 | - There's a thing there.

00:50:10.660 | - Yeah, so if you actually wanna sit next

00:50:12.340 | to whoever you're traveling with,

00:50:13.740 | you actually can't in those seats.

00:50:15.340 | So I totally agree there.

00:50:17.340 | Any other points, miles tricks?

00:50:19.220 | Normally I would do a location episode

00:50:21.220 | and do it separately

00:50:22.300 | because most of the people I talk to about countries

00:50:25.540 | aren't as dialed in on points and miles,

00:50:27.420 | whereas you might be.

00:50:28.580 | Anything there?

00:50:29.520 | - Yeah, so I mean, definitely on the hotel side,

00:50:32.140 | take a look at using Hyatt points

00:50:34.740 | for properties in big cities,

00:50:36.740 | especially through the SLH properties.

00:50:38.300 | Take a look at using Hilton points.

00:50:39.820 | There's a few higher end Hiltons

00:50:41.900 | that are sometimes not that egregious.

00:50:44.100 | Usually they're pretty bad.

00:50:45.100 | And then there are a handful of Marriott properties,

00:50:48.020 | especially those on Sardinia,

00:50:49.620 | that are usually exceptionally expensive,

00:50:52.220 | but sometimes allow point redemptions.

00:50:54.220 | So usually it's shoulder season,

00:50:55.860 | like end of May or early September.

00:50:58.500 | But if you can get one of those Sardinian properties,

00:51:00.740 | it's normally 2,000 euro a night,

00:51:02.740 | and it's 60,000 Marriott points.

00:51:04.940 | Jump on that twice and then some.

00:51:07.140 | On the airline side,

00:51:08.700 | I do like to fly through Northern Continental Europe.

00:51:11.860 | Germany, Switzerland, France, even sometimes the UK,

00:51:15.820 | when doing points redemptions,

00:51:17.380 | because I find that the value of the ticket

00:51:21.180 | that I'm usually redeeming for

00:51:22.820 | would be greater than the price that I would pay

00:51:25.140 | for either a nonstop flight from the States.

00:51:27.340 | I can get a better experience,

00:51:28.580 | better bang for my buck out of doing that.

00:51:31.140 | - Cool, all right.

00:51:32.660 | Well, Lee, I feel like I'm ready both for lunch, by the way.

00:51:35.940 | Now I'm both hungry,

00:51:37.060 | but I'm also excited for a trip to Italy.

00:51:38.580 | I don't know when it'll happen,

00:51:39.740 | because two kids traveling,

00:51:42.100 | we're still recovering from the trip to London and Paris,

00:51:45.140 | but I'm excited whenever it happens.

00:51:47.020 | - Just want to call out, Chris,

00:51:47.980 | I have done weekend trips with kids to Italy before.

00:51:51.620 | It's not an insane idea.

00:51:52.540 | You can do it yourselves.

00:51:53.900 | Choose one city and go, and spend three nights.

00:51:56.660 | - I don't think that sounds as fun as you make it seem.

00:51:59.260 | - Sounds like you're not in.

00:52:00.100 | - Your kids are older than ours.

00:52:01.220 | I don't know if a weekend trip

00:52:02.380 | with a seven-month-old is gonna be fun.

00:52:04.620 | - Yeah, not really too exciting when they're that little.

00:52:06.620 | - Cool, well, thank you for doing this.

00:52:08.220 | - Thank you, I appreciate the opportunity,

00:52:09.540 | and dai, andiamo in Italia.

00:52:10.940 | Let's go to Italy.

00:52:11.780 | - That was so awesome,

00:52:14.500 | but Lee and I did not get to spend

00:52:16.340 | as much time as I wanted talking about points and miles

00:52:19.780 | and tactics to get to Italy,

00:52:21.540 | as well as how to use your points to stay there.

00:52:23.980 | So I'm gonna run through a few things,

00:52:25.500 | but I'm also gonna share an amazing service I've been using

00:52:28.260 | for finding hotel deals with points.

00:52:30.860 | So when it comes to flights,

00:52:32.820 | all the major U.S. carriers,

00:52:34.220 | United, American, and Delta fly to Rome from their hubs.

00:52:38.820 | There's a few flights from each of them,

00:52:40.620 | mostly from more East Coast hubs to Milan,

00:52:43.420 | and then just a couple flights to Venice

00:52:45.780 | from the New York area, Atlanta, and Philly.

00:52:49.260 | Don't forget that Air Canada also flies

00:52:51.620 | from Montreal and Toronto to Rome,

00:52:54.780 | and from Toronto to Venice.

00:52:56.700 | So if you're nearby, that's another good option.

00:52:59.540 | But there are a couple other airlines

00:53:01.020 | that while you can't use points or miles on,

00:53:03.220 | I do wanna flag.

00:53:04.700 | There's Norse Atlantic Airways,

00:53:06.300 | which I talked about on the London episode.

00:53:08.460 | I'll just bring it up because it is so inexpensive

00:53:10.940 | to fly from JFK to Rome.

00:53:13.700 | When I looked on a date in August,

00:53:15.740 | it was $328 on Norse Atlantic versus 900

00:53:19.740 | on the cheapest flight on all other airlines.

00:53:22.620 | So huge savings there.

00:53:24.300 | It's definitely a budget airline,

00:53:26.220 | though they are flying Dreamliners, which is nice.

00:53:28.820 | So if you're on the East Coast,

00:53:30.420 | that could be worth looking into, or if you can get there.

00:53:33.260 | There's also an airline called La Compagnie,

00:53:35.860 | which is I think is a French airline

00:53:37.540 | that flies from Newark to Milan.

00:53:39.620 | It's interesting because it's an all business class airline,

00:53:42.900 | but their flights are as low as $3,000 round trip

00:53:46.020 | in business, which is a lot less than other airlines.

00:53:48.660 | Then finally, another airline that we haven't talked about,

00:53:50.900 | you might not know, is called Neos.

00:53:52.620 | It's Italy's second largest airline,

00:53:55.020 | has really affordable flights to Milan from JFK.

00:53:57.940 | I found them as low as $500 round trip online.

00:54:01.380 | So that's another one.

00:54:02.540 | So obviously if you're using points and miles, though,

00:54:04.980 | none of those are options,

00:54:06.060 | and you're gonna be focusing on airlines

00:54:08.220 | that are part of major alliances

00:54:09.700 | that you can transfer points to,

00:54:11.380 | and that's usually gonna be Delta, American, United,

00:54:15.140 | Air Canada from North America.

00:54:17.660 | Emirates also, as Lee mentioned,

00:54:19.420 | that flight from JFK to Milan.

00:54:22.060 | And then also, if you're willing to change planes,

00:54:24.300 | Air France, KLM, Virgin, British Airways, Lufthansa, Swiss,

00:54:27.580 | there are a ton of airlines

00:54:28.940 | that you can fly to change planes on.

00:54:30.940 | But I wanna share a little bit high level

00:54:32.780 | of some searches I just did

00:54:34.220 | to get you a sense of what's possible.

00:54:36.140 | I went on United's site, I looked for the next month,

00:54:39.020 | and it seems very, very easy

00:54:40.580 | to find an economy flight for 30,000 points.

00:54:43.540 | So that is great.

00:54:44.900 | I imagine if you have points in any transferable program,

00:54:48.220 | you could transfer to some airline

00:54:50.580 | that's part of Star Alliance,

00:54:51.820 | whether that's Air Canada, Avianca, or United,

00:54:54.460 | and book something really affordable in economy.

00:54:57.460 | If you're looking for business, I did find some flights.

00:55:00.420 | I found a flight through Frankfurt in October and in April,

00:55:03.820 | and the lowest prices I found

00:55:05.620 | were about 70,000 points one way on United.

00:55:08.940 | However, let me walk through an example

00:55:10.820 | of how the way you search for some of these flights

00:55:13.580 | can make a huge difference in the value you're getting.

00:55:16.660 | So I just looked for a few weeks from now,

00:55:18.940 | April 4th, San Francisco to Rome.

00:55:21.420 | I found a flight on United's website for 81,000 points

00:55:24.660 | that changes planes in Frankfurt.

00:55:26.540 | So I thought, okay, that's not a bad use of points, right?

00:55:28.620 | 80,000 points for a business class flight.

00:55:30.500 | Yes, there are some dates you could find it for 70,

00:55:32.940 | but that's a pretty good deal.

00:55:34.460 | However, I went to point.me, I did the same search,

00:55:37.580 | and what it'll do is not just look

00:55:39.900 | at where there's availability,

00:55:41.700 | but it'll look at the cost to book that flight

00:55:44.100 | on all the different airlines you could transfer

00:55:46.300 | from your credit card programs,

00:55:47.820 | and find out things like if you transferred Capital One

00:55:51.140 | or Amex points to Avianca,

00:55:53.100 | you could actually book that flight for 63,000 points

00:55:56.420 | instead of 81,000 on United.

00:55:58.780 | Or because there's a 20% bonus right now,

00:56:01.420 | you could transfer from Citi to Avianca,

00:56:03.420 | and you only need 53,000 points.

00:56:06.100 | So for a $3,600 flight, if you only need 53,000 points,

00:56:10.220 | that means you're getting 6.8 cents per point.

00:56:13.260 | And even if you booked with Chase or United

00:56:15.220 | and you booked it for 81,000,

00:56:16.740 | you're still getting four and a half cents per point.

00:56:19.380 | And when I looked at the cheapest flight with one stop

00:56:22.900 | in economy that day, it was almost $1,000.

00:56:26.460 | So the crazy thing is if you wanted to use

00:56:28.140 | that 53,000 points in Citi and book in the travel portal,

00:56:32.620 | you would only get $530.

00:56:34.140 | So you couldn't even book a coach flight there.

00:56:36.740 | And if you took the 80,000 points on Chase,

00:56:40.140 | if you had a Chase Sapphire Preferred,

00:56:42.620 | you'd be able to use that 80,000,

00:56:44.540 | and you'd be able to book $1,000 ticket.

00:56:46.900 | If you happen to have a Chase Sapphire Reserve,

00:56:49.140 | you'd get one and a half cents in the portal.

00:56:51.180 | So that 81,000 points would get you a little more

00:56:53.500 | than $1,200, which would actually cover the economy flight.

00:56:57.100 | However, we're talking about a business class flight.

00:56:59.780 | So the reason I love transferring points to airlines

00:57:02.340 | is because in circumstances like this,

00:57:04.260 | if you find the availability,

00:57:06.140 | you can usually get a business class flight

00:57:08.980 | for not too far off

00:57:10.700 | from what you would have gotten an economy flight for

00:57:13.100 | if you were just redeeming in the portal

00:57:15.060 | or you had had a cashback card in the first place.

00:57:17.540 | So if we assume that in a given year,

00:57:20.860 | you spend $30,000 on your credit card

00:57:23.780 | and you manage to optimize such that you're on average

00:57:27.260 | getting back two points per dollar,

00:57:30.060 | or if you had a cashback card 2% back,

00:57:32.780 | then that $30,000 getting 2% cash back would earn you $600,

00:57:37.780 | but in points, you'd be earning 60,000 points.

00:57:41.540 | Well, that $600 is definitely not gonna book you

00:57:44.020 | a business class flight to Italy.

00:57:45.300 | You would need $1,200 just to book the coach flight,

00:57:48.660 | but you could actually take those points

00:57:50.380 | and transfer them from Citi or Cap One or Amex

00:57:54.500 | to Avianca and get this flight.

00:57:56.060 | So I hope that example is helpful.

00:57:57.940 | I just wanted to share a few other examples I found

00:58:00.180 | 'cause I know not everyone has points

00:58:01.660 | in every single program,

00:58:03.300 | but I looked on American and I found a round trip flight

00:58:06.460 | for 115,000 points in business.

00:58:08.940 | I even found a nonstop in business for 100,000 points,

00:58:13.580 | which is one way, but in July,

00:58:16.060 | which is the peak travel season for Americans going to Italy.

00:58:19.780 | So that was interesting.

00:58:21.100 | And then finally, I did a fun search for the Emirates flight

00:58:25.060 | because if you wanna get to JFK and fly JFK to Milan,

00:58:28.580 | you get a chance to do it on Emirates.

00:58:30.500 | You could do it on a first class cabin

00:58:32.380 | if you want with points that has a shower.

00:58:35.100 | It's really unbeatable, private suites on the plane.

00:58:37.940 | It's very hard to find those flights.

00:58:40.140 | And if you find the right time and the right days,

00:58:43.220 | which takes some work,

00:58:44.460 | you can get in business or first on Emirates

00:58:46.420 | for under 100,000 points.

00:58:48.260 | Now, is it really worth doing that

00:58:50.740 | when you could go for 53,000 on Lufthansa or Swiss Air

00:58:55.740 | or Air France or another airline?

00:58:59.100 | That's really up for you to decide.

00:59:00.660 | It is a unique experience

00:59:02.180 | that you probably won't have on any other airline,

00:59:04.540 | but it also means that you could probably go two

00:59:06.660 | for the price of one when you compare the cost.

00:59:08.980 | So that's up to you to decide.

00:59:10.500 | But I will say, when you're doing these searches,

00:59:13.980 | in general, the way I approach it is,

00:59:16.620 | there's a bunch of airlines that fly the route I want.

00:59:19.460 | First, I'll go and search on some of these airline websites

00:59:22.220 | because they have an easy calendar.

00:59:24.020 | You can go to the American website

00:59:25.580 | and see a month at a time.

00:59:27.260 | Unfortunately, you can only see from one destination.

00:59:30.100 | So you can search from your destination.

00:59:32.020 | But sometimes what unfortunately happens

00:59:34.380 | is that American, for example,

00:59:36.380 | might not have award flights from San Francisco to Dallas,

00:59:40.740 | but they might have Dallas nonstop to Italy.

00:59:44.620 | And so you might be willing to spend a couple hundred dollars

00:59:47.580 | to fly to Dallas if the flight from Dallas

00:59:50.060 | all the way to Italy is free and in business class.

00:59:53.180 | So you do have to do a bit of searching

00:59:55.100 | from some of the different hubs where airlines fly from.

00:59:58.220 | But most of those airline websites,

01:00:00.380 | one of the advantages is you get a calendar for the month.

01:00:03.660 | So on United, you get this.

01:00:05.140 | On American, you get this.

01:00:06.660 | A lot of different airlines have this option.

01:00:08.820 | So you can search a wide set of dates

01:00:10.500 | and see when the sweet spots are.

01:00:12.620 | However, I strongly encourage people to consider

01:00:15.540 | that once you've found it,

01:00:17.420 | don't necessarily book on American,

01:00:19.300 | don't necessarily book on United,

01:00:21.340 | because there might be a partner airline

01:00:22.900 | that's much cheaper to book on.

01:00:24.300 | And that's where Point.me comes in and can be so valuable.

01:00:27.940 | I use it almost every week

01:00:29.900 | when I'm helping friends search for flights,

01:00:31.460 | when I'm searching for flights for us.

01:00:33.460 | The only knock I have on it

01:00:34.940 | is that there isn't a multi-day search on their website.

01:00:38.020 | So if your dates aren't flexible,

01:00:40.020 | you don't even need to go to the airlines.

01:00:41.420 | You can say, I'm looking at this day,

01:00:42.700 | or even if they're flexible within one or two days, great.

01:00:45.700 | But if you're looking at,

01:00:46.860 | I wanna go somewhere and I could go anytime,

01:00:50.220 | Point.me might be tricky

01:00:51.460 | because you have to search a day at a time.

01:00:54.100 | That said, I would argue,

01:00:55.220 | if you're willing to go in an off season,

01:00:57.820 | pick a time that would be good.

01:00:59.220 | You could still search there

01:01:00.580 | and you might find something right away.

01:01:02.500 | But if you don't, it can be a little bit burdensome.

01:01:04.900 | But I did wanna point two things out on Point.me.

01:01:07.100 | First, as I've said in the past,

01:01:08.660 | if you wanna get your first month for $1,

01:01:11.260 | you can sign up for the monthly standard plan.

01:01:13.820 | And just to be clear, 'cause it's a little confusing,

01:01:16.060 | don't go to the, I have a code field,

01:01:18.100 | sign up for the standard plan with monthly billing

01:01:20.580 | that's $12 a month, and all the way at checkout,

01:01:23.100 | if you put all the hacks,

01:01:24.540 | you'll get your first month for $1.

01:01:26.580 | However, for the month of March,

01:01:29.140 | if you do go to the services page,

01:01:31.460 | there is a field that says, I have a code,

01:01:33.660 | and there's a complimentary starter pass,

01:01:35.580 | which gives you access for 24 hours,

01:01:37.900 | which normally costs $5.

01:01:40.060 | If you use all the hacks there just in the month of March,

01:01:43.500 | 50 people can get that access.

01:01:46.180 | A lot of people are listening to this show.

01:01:47.580 | I can't promise it'll still be available when you try,

01:01:50.500 | but the $1 for your first month should.

01:01:53.020 | So definitely consider checking it out.

01:01:54.900 | I am happy paying customer at Point.me.

01:01:57.020 | I think it's a really great product.

01:01:58.700 | I've heard so many people have had a great experience.

01:02:01.060 | And if all of this is too complicated,

01:02:03.060 | they do also have a consulting service

01:02:05.860 | where they will just, for $200 a passenger,

01:02:09.340 | book your entire flight for you with their concierge.

01:02:12.220 | So that's definitely something to consider

01:02:14.260 | if you don't wanna deal with this.

01:02:15.980 | If we go back to our business class example,

01:02:18.420 | if your alternative is,

01:02:19.580 | I'm not going to use my points optimally

01:02:21.580 | because it's too much work,

01:02:22.580 | and I don't wanna try to do this,

01:02:24.300 | well, in that example,

01:02:25.540 | if 53,000 points is able to get you a $3,600 flight,

01:02:29.860 | it would absolutely have been worth you paying

01:02:31.860 | an additional $200 for a concierge to go look into this

01:02:35.500 | and figure out a way to make it work.

01:02:37.860 | And by the way, if they don't find anything,

01:02:39.340 | they only require a $25 search fee to get started.

01:02:42.380 | So it's a pretty low risk option

01:02:44.260 | for people who aren't willing to spend the time

01:02:46.460 | to go do some of the searching their own,

01:02:48.340 | but still wanna get those really, really outsized values

01:02:51.180 | from their points.

01:02:52.700 | So that's flights, but let's talk about hotels

01:02:55.700 | because there's so many great options in Italy.

01:02:58.580 | But before that, I wanna talk about Aways,

01:03:01.100 | which is a really awesome service I started using.

01:03:04.100 | And it's basically become my de facto way

01:03:06.620 | I search for hotels with points these days.

01:03:09.420 | And what I love about it is they show you the cash price

01:03:12.060 | right next to the award price.

01:03:13.820 | But even more than that,

01:03:14.780 | they show you the award availability.

01:03:16.940 | So they make it so easy to find

01:03:18.740 | which hotels have availability,

01:03:20.780 | and you can look at a calendar view

01:03:22.740 | of when they're available,

01:03:24.020 | and you can compare the cash and the award price

01:03:26.020 | to see if it's a good deal.

01:03:27.260 | It works for Hilton, Marriott, IHG, and Hyatt,

01:03:30.180 | and they actually let you filter on your balances

01:03:32.260 | with those programs or your balances

01:03:34.180 | at Chase, Built, and Amex.

01:03:36.580 | And they'll factor in things like

01:03:38.380 | how Marriott and Hilton give you fifth night free

01:03:41.340 | and show you the price respective to that.

01:03:44.300 | Unlike Point.me, they actually have a free option

01:03:47.060 | so you can go in and search

01:03:48.420 | for the real-time cash and award pricing

01:03:50.580 | and get availability for free.

01:03:52.940 | And they do this for over 1,000 cities

01:03:55.460 | and over 25,000 hotels around the world.

01:03:58.500 | Unlike Point.me, they do have a free service

01:04:00.780 | that gives you access to the cash and award prices

01:04:03.980 | and the award availability.

01:04:05.740 | However, I've been playing with the premium version.

01:04:08.500 | They give you features like being able to search

01:04:10.380 | for your free night certificates,

01:04:12.140 | being able to filter on the pricing

01:04:13.860 | for getting your fourth or fifth night free

01:04:15.700 | depending on the hotel chain.

01:04:17.540 | But the real thing that I love

01:04:19.180 | is that you can get a wider view of the award pricing.

01:04:23.100 | So with the gold plan, you can get a seven-day view,

01:04:25.500 | and with the platinum plan, you can get a 30-day view.

01:04:28.340 | But I heard a little rumor that by the end of this week,

01:04:31.380 | that'll switch to be a calendar view

01:04:33.220 | you can browse for the whole year.

01:04:35.260 | So if you're eyeing a property,

01:04:36.540 | like let's say the St. Regis in Rome,

01:04:38.500 | and you wanna see when you can get the best deal,

01:04:40.580 | you'll be able to click through the whole year.

01:04:42.700 | So like I said, you can use the product for free,

01:04:45.180 | but if you want all the features,

01:04:46.620 | you can use the gold or the platinum plan,

01:04:48.220 | and you can get a five-day free trial.

01:04:50.100 | So you can actually go in

01:04:51.180 | and play around with this right now for free.

01:04:54.300 | But for all the Hacks listeners,

01:04:56.420 | I got them to offer $10 off the platinum plan forever,

01:04:59.620 | not just your first year, forever.

01:05:01.380 | If you just go to allthehacks.com,

01:05:03.140 | slash aways with a Z, A-W-A-Y-Z.

01:05:06.740 | I'll also put the link in the show notes.

01:05:08.740 | Definitely go check it out.

01:05:10.220 | You can use it for free for five days,

01:05:11.820 | or even the free version of it forever.

01:05:13.700 | But I will highlight a few of the hotels

01:05:16.180 | that I found when I was doing some searching,

01:05:17.860 | just to get you an idea

01:05:19.220 | of some amazing outsized value you can get.

01:05:22.380 | So within Hyatt, and I'll just caveat

01:05:24.940 | that if anyone listening isn't familiar,

01:05:27.420 | unfortunately, on March 28th,

01:05:30.260 | Hyatt is gonna change the prices

01:05:32.180 | of a lot of their hotels.

01:05:33.980 | And it's not all of the hotels,

01:05:35.660 | and not all of them are going up,

01:05:37.500 | but the award cost for 214 Hyatt hotels and resorts

01:05:41.580 | is going to change.

01:05:43.420 | On average, everything's going up

01:05:45.340 | about 5,000 points per night,

01:05:47.860 | but some hotels are going down,

01:05:49.860 | and you still have, by the time this comes out,

01:05:52.860 | in five or six days to go in and search,

01:05:55.260 | which honestly is a perfect opportunity

01:05:57.580 | if you have a trip to plan

01:05:59.060 | to go use the five-day aways free trial

01:06:01.500 | to go find out if you can find a way

01:06:03.220 | to get a value from your points

01:06:04.620 | before it gets devalued.

01:06:06.180 | I'll put a link in the show notes

01:06:07.260 | to all the hotels that are changing categories,

01:06:09.820 | so you can see if they're in that list.

01:06:11.340 | Obviously, if the hotels you wanna go to aren't,

01:06:13.660 | then there's not a lot of rush to do any booking.

01:06:15.820 | But if there's a trip you know you wanna plan,

01:06:17.780 | and there's a Hyatt hotel you know you wanna stay at

01:06:20.020 | that is going up in price,

01:06:21.420 | definitely get that booked before the 28th of this month.

01:06:24.780 | But just as some examples,

01:06:26.140 | within Hyatt, the Park Hyatt in Milan looks beautiful.

01:06:29.980 | When I looked at a few dates,

01:06:31.300 | it was about $1,040 a night,

01:06:33.420 | but you could book it for 40,000 points,

01:06:35.580 | which means you can get 2.6 cents per point,

01:06:37.780 | which is amazing.

01:06:39.740 | Though, in Milan, there's also the Hyatt Centric,

01:06:42.180 | which costs a lot less at 470,

01:06:44.780 | but is only 15,000 points per night,

01:06:47.580 | so 3.1 cents per point value, which is really great.

01:06:50.620 | And then there's a few Hyatt small luxury hotel properties

01:06:54.820 | that are part of that little collection they have

01:06:56.940 | that you can get for similar values,

01:06:58.540 | like the Hotel Ding Hill Terra,

01:07:00.260 | which I found for 29,000 points a night,

01:07:02.180 | which is really nice.

01:07:03.500 | On the Marriott side,

01:07:04.940 | the St. Regis in Rome and Venice both look beautiful.

01:07:07.980 | Both are over $1,200 a night,

01:07:10.380 | but I found the one in Rome for 75,000 points a night,

01:07:13.820 | which works out to about 1.7 cents per point,

01:07:16.980 | which is really big for Marriott,

01:07:18.540 | because Marriott points often are kind of more

01:07:20.580 | around the 0.7 cents value.

01:07:22.660 | And then at the St. Regis in Venice,

01:07:24.620 | which when I looked was about $1,300 a night,

01:07:27.220 | but I found it under 100,000 points,

01:07:29.300 | which similarly is kind of double the value

01:07:31.700 | in terms of what you get for your Marriott points.

01:07:33.660 | So there are some really great spots for Marriott,

01:07:36.300 | and all that goes down by 20% if you book five nights.

01:07:39.580 | So don't forget that you get your fifth night free

01:07:41.500 | on Marriott, and you also get the same thing on Hilton.

01:07:45.140 | And so if you look at Hilton in Rome,

01:07:47.660 | there's the Cavallari Hotel,

01:07:49.500 | which is a Waldorf Astoria property.

01:07:51.500 | I found it for a few different dates

01:07:53.340 | for 80,000 points a night.

01:07:55.380 | But if you don't have Hilton points,

01:07:56.780 | Amex transfers one to two,

01:07:59.020 | so you only need 40,000 Amex points.

01:08:01.340 | So that was a $746 a night property,

01:08:04.540 | which means on the Amex point side,

01:08:06.620 | you're getting about 1.9 cents per point.

01:08:09.220 | Or if you book at five nights and get your fifth night free,

01:08:11.700 | that bumps up to about 2.4 cents,

01:08:13.620 | which is still a much better deal

01:08:15.660 | than using the portal to get one cent per point with Amex.

01:08:20.100 | Obviously, like in the example earlier,

01:08:21.740 | you can get much more value

01:08:23.140 | on some of these international business class flights.

01:08:25.620 | But honestly, if you're not looking to fly business

01:08:27.540 | and you want your points to go further,

01:08:29.220 | you might be more interested in flying economy

01:08:32.180 | and staying in hotels.

01:08:33.860 | Or maybe you're just someone

01:08:34.780 | who doesn't care about the flight experience,

01:08:36.220 | you just like a really nice hotel.

01:08:38.100 | I totally support that as well.

01:08:40.660 | So those are a few of the points options.

01:08:42.980 | I'm not gonna go through every single hotel

01:08:45.100 | and every single property,

01:08:46.540 | because when I looked, there were so many.

01:08:48.980 | Marriott has 63 hotels, Hilton has 33,

01:08:52.540 | Hyatt had 52, and it looks like IHG has another 49.

01:08:56.860 | So that all adds up to probably 200 hotels

01:08:59.460 | you could use your points and miles at.

01:09:01.380 | So hopefully that gives you a little bit of an overview

01:09:04.500 | of how you might wanna use your points and your miles

01:09:06.620 | to get to Italy, to stay in Italy.

01:09:08.860 | Definitely reach out to me.

01:09:10.100 | Let me know what you think of the Aways product.

01:09:12.340 | I have reached out and talked to John,

01:09:14.300 | the CEO of the company,

01:09:15.540 | and he's definitely open to product feedback as well.

01:09:18.300 | So feel free to send them an email if you have suggestions.

01:09:21.180 | There are a bunch of other updates

01:09:22.540 | that I've already sent him that some of which he said

01:09:24.500 | are coming as soon as this week.

01:09:26.220 | So I'm really excited to see how that product evolves.

01:09:28.980 | But most of all, I'm really excited to have another tool

01:09:32.100 | in the hotel toolkit,

01:09:33.500 | because the only site I knew of

01:09:35.020 | was a site called AwardMapper,

01:09:36.780 | which stopped updating things as hotels changed hands

01:09:39.820 | and changed their rates, and it really became unreliable.

01:09:42.180 | So really excited that we have a couple tools

01:09:44.820 | that you guys can use to book your next trip

01:09:46.900 | with points and miles and find really great deals.

01:09:49.580 | So if you wanna check out point.me,

01:09:50.980 | don't forget the promo code, AllTheHacks.

01:09:52.780 | And if you wanna check out Aways,

01:09:54.580 | don't forget to go to allthehacks.com/aways, A-W-A-Y-Z.

01:09:59.340 | (upbeat music)

01:10:00.940 | So I would love to hear if anyone is going to Italy,

01:10:04.140 | plans a trip to Italy, uses any of this advice,

01:10:07.140 | or even has other tips they wanna share,

01:10:09.180 | please send them my way.

01:10:10.700 | This whole country series is going to be a thing.

01:10:13.140 | I'm gonna be doing it probably every four to six weeks.

01:10:16.380 | So please let me know what you think.

01:10:17.740 | Let me know if there are countries

01:10:18.740 | that are at the top of your list,

01:10:20.260 | and we'll see what's next.

01:10:21.860 | Right now, I'm trying to get Brandon Presser,

01:10:23.540 | who I did the Japan episode with, to do one on Iceland,

01:10:26.660 | because it turns out he knows just about as much,

01:10:29.020 | if not more, about Iceland as he does about Japan,

01:10:32.060 | which is hard to believe, but really exciting,

01:10:34.660 | because Iceland has been at the top of my list

01:10:36.940 | for a long time, and I've never been able to go.

01:10:39.820 | We even threw out the idea of trying to fly to Iceland

01:10:42.740 | and do the episode there,

01:10:44.100 | but two little kids is likely gonna make that challenging.

01:10:46.940 | So thank you so much for listening.

01:10:48.820 | I hope you enjoyed this episode,

01:10:50.500 | and I'll see you next week.

01:10:52.020 | (upbeat music)

01:10:54.620 | (upbeat music)

01:10:57.340 | (upbeat music)

01:10:59.980 | (upbeat music)

01:11:02.620 | (birds chirping)

01:11:05.380 | you

01:11:07.440 | you