Ep.15 - Barnabas ministry

00:09:03.080 | After that testimony, I don't remember anything else but his testimony, I bought, I think, five or six of his books, read it in two weeks.

00:09:10.880 | More than a carpenter.

00:09:12.240 | More than a carpenter and all the other books he had.

00:09:15.240 | And I made a commitment.

00:09:17.400 | I'm going to start from scratch.

00:09:19.320 | And I'm going to see Christianity.

00:09:21.320 | And I sought Christianity for over a year.

00:09:23.960 | And I started writing every question I had that I didn't ask as a PK.

00:09:28.540 | And I went to office hours, I went to every Bible study, every Sunday worship service, and became a genuine seeker.

00:09:35.820 | And January of my junior year, I surrendered to Christ.

00:09:39.760 | Wow.

00:09:40.220 | Wow.

00:09:40.700 | That is so cool.

00:09:41.620 | I don't think I've ever heard that before.

00:09:42.760 | Wow, that's neat.

00:09:43.620 | Josh McTowell.

00:09:44.240 | Yeah, you know, just for the audience, just if you've never heard Josh McTowell's testimony and hear him speak, I'm sure it's on YouTube somewhere.

00:09:51.820 | Yeah.

00:09:52.220 | Yeah, yeah.

00:09:53.680 | Yeah, but how about for you, Panjshan, just troublemaker, senior year?

00:09:58.660 | Well, so, yeah.

00:10:01.160 | So, I grew up in the church.

00:10:04.020 | I had perfect attendance all throughout my youth and everything.

00:10:08.440 | It was a small Korean Presbyterian church in Southern California.

00:10:13.680 | But I think I prided myself in just being a goody-two-shoes, never got into trouble.

00:10:20.120 | So, I never said anything bad, not even, oh, shoot, oh, shoot, it's like on the verge of like.

00:10:27.900 | It's a very strong guardrail.

00:10:30.780 | Yeah, so, I didn't do anything bad, but of course, all of the motivation behind all of the good that I was doing was for myself.

00:10:41.700 | And it was at that senior class retreat when I was really convicted by one particular message that challenged me to consider all of the women with all purity, with absolute purity, as sisters in Christ and everything.

00:11:01.100 | And, yeah, I think I was really hung up on and so worried and fearful that I would never get married.

00:11:07.460 | And so, the whole marriage and dating and all of that, that was my big idol.

00:11:14.880 | And that's the thing that I was challenged to surrender and to trust God.

00:11:23.280 | And then, so, that was, I think, that was when I surrendered my life to Jesus as Lord.

00:11:28.740 | Wow.

00:11:29.420 | Because all throughout my life, I was just in control.

00:11:32.360 | And I was doing my own thing to project an image of myself that would be presentable for someone to say yes to, right?

00:11:40.620 | And then, believe it or not, after the retreat, Pastor Ed, he said, hey, why don't you share what God did through the retreat?

00:11:52.040 | With, like, everyone?

00:11:54.680 | With the church, the rest of the church.

00:11:57.620 | Wow.

00:11:57.920 | Like, give a testimony.

00:11:58.860 | Like on Sunday.

00:11:59.560 | On Sunday.

00:12:00.340 | Wow.

00:12:00.700 | And he knew what, you know, what I was really convicted of.

00:12:05.300 | And then, so, for me, I'm like, okay, so if I tell the whole church that I was so, like, obsessed with getting married, okay?

00:12:14.780 | Stuff.

00:12:16.100 | Then I am totally going to be single for life, right?

00:12:20.420 | So, so, but I did.

00:12:23.140 | I gave that testimony.

00:12:24.020 | Remember that testimony?

00:12:24.940 | But we all knew.

00:12:25.840 | And then, so, later on, so, I, you know, sheepishly see all of my class peer sisters, and they're like, we knew that about you.

00:12:35.580 | We never blacklisted you.

00:12:36.960 | And so, I was the only one who didn't know.

00:12:39.600 | Wow.

00:12:41.060 | And so, yeah, that was my turning point.

00:12:44.020 | And so, senior year, so, a little, little kind of, you know, just showing you how cocky I was.

00:12:52.000 | So, I thought that I could graduate in three and a half, and I was on track.

00:12:56.500 | And this is even without any AP courses.

00:12:59.440 | Wow.

00:12:59.880 | I took my fall semester of senior year, I took a couple of graduate level courses in the sciences.

00:13:07.520 | And I thought that I could just somehow pass them without even going to class.

00:13:13.080 | And one of the professors says, no, you failed my class.

00:13:18.460 | And so, after I got the grade report, I'm like, no, you can't fail me because I'm ready to finish.

00:13:26.240 | I'm done.

00:13:26.880 | He said, you know, you're not done.

00:13:28.880 | You have to come back for spring.

00:13:31.680 | Because I didn't have enough units.

00:13:33.200 | Oh, gosh.

00:13:34.000 | Yeah.

00:13:34.300 | And so, that's why I was able to come to the winter retreat.

00:13:37.780 | Oh, wow.

00:13:38.700 | Yeah.

00:13:39.000 | Wow.

00:13:39.500 | So, thank God for that fail.

00:13:41.480 | Oh, my gosh.

00:13:42.340 | That professor did you a favor.

00:13:43.960 | He did me a favor.

00:13:45.360 | He did.

00:13:45.660 | Yeah.

00:13:46.060 | And that big, fat F is still on my transfer.

00:13:48.380 | Well, I mean, even with the F, I mean, you, I mean, I've heard your story over the years and everything.

00:13:54.000 | I mean, at some point, you were going to go to Harvard, right?

00:13:56.520 | For a postdoc.

00:13:57.640 | For a postdoc.

00:13:58.160 | Which is much easier than getting it to Harvard or undergrad.

00:14:01.140 | You can get an F and still have a postdoc.

00:14:03.020 | Okay.

00:14:03.420 | Yeah.

00:14:04.140 | Could you tell us a little bit of that story, too?

00:14:05.540 | Because I think, you know, sometimes, especially with our pastors, grew up on Pastor Island, fell off a pastor tree and everything.

00:14:11.500 | But there's more than that, right?

00:14:12.900 | Like, you didn't become a pastor until much later.

00:14:15.120 | And so, and the Harvard thing is very much part of that.

00:14:19.120 | So, if you could tell us that story.

00:14:20.200 | Sure.

00:14:22.680 | So, I went to chemistry for a PhD because my parents had raised me up with a doctor in front of my name.

00:14:31.960 | My grandpa was a medical doctor.

00:14:34.580 | Oh.

00:14:34.900 | And he would send me birthday cards addressed, Dr. June Lee.

00:14:38.840 | Oh, my gosh.

00:14:39.960 | When I was a kid.

00:14:41.100 | Wow.

00:14:41.800 | That's the pressure.

00:14:42.340 | I'm going to try that with my son.

00:14:43.420 | I'm like, MBA, all-star.

00:14:45.660 | I know.

00:14:46.180 | Speaking it into existence.

00:14:47.640 | And then, so, freshman year, I was pre-med at Cal.

00:14:53.020 | I went through all of the, you know, volunteering at SF General and everything like that.

00:14:57.600 | But sophomore year, I really messed up on my grades.

00:15:01.040 | Organic chemistry, really not for me.

00:15:04.420 | And so, I had to think of.

00:15:06.280 | It's been the bane of many.

00:15:07.420 | Oh, yeah.

00:15:08.140 | So, I had to think of some backup.

00:15:10.200 | And I had to find some way to convince my parents that, you know, I'll be okay.

00:15:16.420 | So, I said, okay, in lieu of an MD doctor, how about a PhD doctor?

00:15:21.340 | And they said, sure, fine.

00:15:22.700 | So, I went for a PhD in chemistry.

00:15:25.860 | And then, as I was there at Davis, so this is way before our Davis church.

00:15:31.200 | So, me and Timothy.

00:15:32.600 | Timothy was a master's student there in engineering.

00:15:35.580 | So, we would come down to still be a part of college ministry here.

00:15:42.280 | And then, I thought that, hey, maybe if I could become a professor, then that would be a really

00:15:49.300 | good opportunity to dovetail my career along with college ministry and to have an office

00:15:55.000 | on campus.

00:15:55.640 | I mean, that's great.

00:15:57.480 | And so, I pursued that.

00:15:59.040 | And one step in that was to get a postdoc.

00:16:03.040 | Thankfully, my research project at UC Davis was, I got really lucky.

00:16:11.920 | So, it was buckyballs.

00:16:13.860 | Yeah.

00:16:14.320 | And it just got on the map in the chemistry departments.

00:16:18.980 | So, we were about to give up on this project because there was no results for three months.

00:16:25.040 | And then, the last week before the professor said, let's pull the plug, we found some crystals.

00:16:31.920 | And then, that turned everything around.

00:16:34.040 | We're now ahead of the curve.

00:16:35.800 | Wow.

00:16:36.140 | And so, we published a whole bunch of articles.

00:16:38.660 | And then, so with that, my professor, he said, I think you could go to my professor's group,

00:16:48.380 | which he graduated from Harvard.

00:16:50.460 | Wow.

00:16:51.240 | And so, he said, I'll make some phone calls, and I'm sure you're going to get a postdoc position.

00:16:57.400 | Wow.

00:16:57.740 | And sure enough, he got me that postdoc position.

00:17:00.380 | Yeah.

00:17:00.780 | So, you guys already married?

00:17:04.280 | We were married, yeah.

00:17:06.100 | And then, I get a phone call.

00:17:08.920 | I sign the paper and everything.

00:17:10.520 | And then, that professor said, well, you know, I just made the announcement to my lab group

00:17:17.600 | that I'm entertaining an offer from UC Santa Barbara.

00:17:21.440 | And this is when he's old, and his wife has arthritis, and the cold winters are hard.

00:17:29.180 | And he said, they made an offer that I cannot refuse, so I'm entertaining it.

00:17:35.080 | So, I need to let you know because you signed the contract for this coming fall.

00:17:38.540 | So, I'm like, what is there in Santa Barbara?

00:17:42.400 | I don't want to go to Santa Barbara.

00:17:46.360 | And so, I said, let me think about it.

00:17:51.140 | And then, I told him, I need to decline.

00:17:55.360 | Okay.

00:17:55.820 | I said, you know what you're doing?

00:17:57.360 | I said, I think I know what I'm doing.

00:17:59.940 | And it was at that time that we were ministering to...

00:18:03.860 | Jay and Kathy's class.

00:18:04.400 | Jay and Kathy's class at Berkeley.

00:18:07.040 | Yeah.

00:18:09.120 | And that was a challenging class, but we somehow really bonded with them, and we wanted to continue to minister to them.

00:18:17.140 | And so, that was one of the motivating factors that we were seriously considering just staying, just for that.

00:18:24.900 | But when he phoned me about the Santa Barbara option, that just sealed it.

00:18:30.620 | So, long story short, it turns out that he just used that as leverage to get more power at Harvard.

00:18:38.460 | He's still at Harvard.

00:18:40.520 | He's still at Harvard?

00:18:41.240 | All these years.

00:18:42.040 | Oh, wow.

00:18:43.280 | Yeah.

00:18:43.780 | How old is he now?

00:18:45.460 | Oh, my gosh.

00:18:45.980 | Oh, he's Emeritus.

00:18:46.820 | Oh, okay.

00:18:47.840 | Wow.

00:18:49.320 | Some politicking.

00:18:51.000 | I know, yeah.

00:18:51.960 | Oh, yeah.

00:18:52.420 | So, yeah.

00:18:53.580 | Yeah, well.

00:18:54.940 | Well, we got to stay and continue to minister.

00:18:58.440 | That was a class when Kristen was born into that class.

00:19:02.960 | And so, it was a lot of fun.

00:19:05.020 | Wow.

00:19:05.560 | So, you were at Davis for a while?

00:19:08.140 | We were at Davis for 13 years.

00:19:10.300 | 13 years.

00:19:11.040 | Yeah, maybe tell us all the cities and ministries you've been in since then.

00:19:15.440 | You guys have been around the block a little bit.

00:19:17.440 | So, we were at Berkeley.

00:19:18.800 | I was the first director of IMPAC.

00:19:21.020 | Oh, yeah.

00:19:21.660 | I was the pioneering team that started all that in 1997.

00:19:25.340 | We were at Davis from January 1998 till June of 2011.

00:19:31.840 | So, we have this, and then we went back to Berkeley for a different role for two years.

00:19:38.300 | And we went to Austin in 2013 till 2016.

00:19:42.300 | And we had to come back after my first cancer to recover.

00:19:45.660 | And then we stayed.

00:19:46.860 | And we went back.

00:19:47.840 | We ricocheted back to boomerang.

00:19:50.500 | Not ricocheted.

00:19:51.060 | Boomerang back to Austin end of December 2017.

00:19:55.480 | And then we ended up doing Austin and Minneapolis every other weekend.

00:20:01.020 | We'll fly out.

00:20:02.200 | And then when 2021 came, we did Midwest and Austin.

00:20:06.520 | And then we came back because of my latest illness.

00:20:09.840 | Yeah.

00:20:10.380 | So, we have this saying, whenever we get a building and get it all ready, we have to move.

00:20:17.820 | Oh, man.

00:20:18.700 | So, we got the 607 all ready.

00:20:21.480 | And then we moved six months after.

00:20:23.140 | Wow.

00:20:23.640 | And then for Austin, we got that beautiful, real building.

00:20:27.260 | All settled.

00:20:28.300 | And then we have to move again.

00:20:29.600 | Oh, gosh.

00:20:30.400 | Man.

00:20:31.280 | So, whenever we get a building, it's time to move.

00:20:33.900 | All right.

00:20:35.160 | All you people out in Austin, Davis.

00:20:36.720 | You know, this is who you have to thank.

00:20:38.600 | Wow.

00:20:40.080 | Wow.

00:20:40.520 | So, yeah.

00:20:41.720 | So, I guess, you know, you've had those periods of illness.

00:20:45.300 | And, you know, our church prayed for you many times.

00:20:48.720 | And I feel like that there's been a lot of blessing that has actually come out of that.

00:20:53.040 | You know, whether it's helping other people.

00:20:55.120 | But then there's also this, the main topic for today, Barnabas.

00:20:59.040 | Right?

00:20:59.500 | And could you just share a little bit about what Barnabas is?

00:21:04.280 | What's the story of how it kind of, you know, got birthed?

00:21:07.280 | And we had kind of kicked around the idea for a little bit.

00:21:09.980 | But then, really, it was like the way it actually came to fruition involved that.

00:21:12.980 | So, I don't know if, yeah, I could tell that story.

00:21:15.620 | Barnabas, yeah.

00:21:17.200 | I think I said a lot already.

00:21:19.240 | Maybe you could start this off and I'll chime in.

00:21:21.780 | It's our newest ministry.

00:21:23.280 | And it's hard to believe it was only August.

00:21:25.900 | Last year.

00:21:26.820 | Last year.

00:21:27.280 | Really?

00:21:27.620 | Yeah.

00:21:28.240 | What?

00:21:28.780 | Wow.

00:21:29.600 | Uh-huh.

00:21:30.080 | Okay.

00:21:30.640 | Yeah, we actually embarked on it.

00:21:32.680 | Wow.

00:21:33.780 | So, after we returned back from Midwest in Austin in February of last year, I'm sorry,

00:21:44.200 | it was around April of last year.

00:21:45.320 | I'm sorry, it was April last year.

00:21:46.580 | Since we're here, we thought, why not start this ministry?

00:21:51.940 | And like the word Barnabas, we want to be a source of encouragement, support for all of

00:21:58.040 | our kingdom workers in various facets of life, marriage, child rearing, character development.

00:22:06.800 | And we had our first inaugural team.

00:22:09.560 | And it was really a sweet time where we got certified through Prepare and Rich on marriage

00:22:14.820 | equipping tools.

00:22:15.820 | Yeah.

00:22:16.460 | And we are the recipient, Pastor Jonathan and me, of, you know, decades of marriage support

00:22:25.180 | and counseling from Pastor Ed and Kelly.

00:22:27.380 | And we really want to give back to other young couples and old couples all that we have learned.

00:22:34.700 | So, we took the material and massaged it a bit and packaged it so that instead of, you know,

00:22:41.120 | 12 weeks, it would just be four weeks on the essentials.

00:22:44.820 | And we started with that.

00:22:46.740 | And then we start adding more things.

00:22:49.320 | For example, when we did a presentation on raising children from, you know, primary grade

00:22:56.460 | all the way to teens, one thing that the Maven group talked about, the video that we used a

00:23:02.720 | lot to train our people was you need to converse with your kids.

00:23:06.780 | By the time they turn 12 or, you know, into middle school, you need to reason with them.

00:23:12.520 | So, something triggered in us.

00:23:14.300 | Oh, man, we got to make sure our people are equipped to converse with your children.

00:23:20.200 | You just can't assume that.

00:23:21.400 | So, that's when Convo with Kids got embarked.

00:23:24.460 | So, it was really out of needs that was in front of us that we started developing.

00:23:30.620 | And some of them were from, like, already existing material that we repackaged.

00:23:35.800 | And then there were some materials that we had to do a lot of reading.

00:23:41.020 | So, for one workshop to be beta tested, it's a minimal of about 30 hours of development.

00:23:47.660 | Wow.

00:23:47.980 | Minimal.

00:23:48.660 | Wow.

00:23:49.580 | And then we do the beta testing.

00:23:51.040 | And then we do iteration.

00:23:52.820 | So, like, the marriage equipping is on its fifth iteration.

00:23:55.580 | Wow.

00:23:56.380 | And now we're writing out the level two.

00:23:58.820 | Got it.

00:23:59.440 | And we have everything from habit formation all the way to getting things done.

00:24:07.460 | household habits where the instructor Michelle Yang gets on Zoom and you clean the house with her.

00:24:15.540 | Wow.

00:24:17.380 | And we get a lot of thank yous from the husband.

00:24:20.160 | My refrigerator has never looked this great.

00:24:23.980 | Wow.

00:24:26.200 | And, you know, it could be as individual work as wellness for sisters, wellness for brothers, all the way to anxiety support group where we teach tips and tools.

00:24:38.380 | So, my husband started one for brothers with Chris Lee.

00:24:45.020 | And we have done that.

00:24:46.700 | And most of our workshops are via Zoom.

00:24:49.100 | But we've done two Barnabas on the road.

00:24:52.800 | On the road.

00:24:52.940 | Oh.

00:24:53.340 | Went to Merced.

00:24:54.280 | Yeah.

00:24:54.820 | And that was really fun.

00:24:56.700 | We taught to students and international grad students and their staff on campus.

00:25:02.080 | And then we also went to SoCal and we had about 120 postgrads.

00:25:06.940 | Yeah.

00:25:07.280 | And then we taught, like, six different courses.

00:25:09.660 | Wow.

00:25:10.420 | That was really fun.

00:25:11.520 | Yeah.

00:25:12.140 | What are some of the bright spots that you've been seeing coming out of this?

00:25:15.440 | Like, any stories you can share?

00:25:16.820 | I mean, obviously, keep it anonymous.

00:25:18.120 | But, yeah.

00:25:18.740 | Mm-hmm.

00:25:19.100 | So, one aspect, I'm glad you asked that because I was thinking as I'm hearing Susanna,

00:25:25.400 | yes, we're meeting the needs of the kingdom workers across our network.

00:25:30.200 | Yeah.

00:25:30.540 | But, also, we're opening up new avenues of ministry for the older ones who's in Barnabas.

00:25:38.900 | Mm-hmm.

00:25:39.300 | I think that's the other side of this ministry because there are older ones like us.

00:25:48.760 | You know, we've had our limitations due to health and our season of life or whatever is going on.

00:25:54.580 | But, we could still minister to people.

00:25:57.140 | Mm-hmm.

00:25:57.500 | We could still help people.

00:25:58.760 | Yeah.

00:25:59.060 | And we could still not just encourage them with prayers, but also in some concrete way where we're dispensing a little bit of the wisdom that we learned the hard way.

00:26:07.920 | And so, I think when we see some of our Barnabas team members really feel like, wow, God is still able to use me to expand his kingdom.

00:26:21.200 | And this is another path of ministry that I could be fruitful in, perhaps even for the rest of my life.

00:26:29.560 | Mm-hmm.

00:26:29.820 | Because we're all going to get old.

00:26:31.300 | You're going to get old.

00:26:32.260 | Okay.

00:26:32.940 | You're going to get a titanium plate in your neck these days with screws holding it.

00:26:37.840 | But, I guess, in a way, we're just so thankful that we get to see old people actually turn right around and serve in these different capacities.

00:26:49.700 | Yeah, that's awesome.

00:26:51.640 | Because I think one of the questions people might ask when they're thinking about Barnabas is like, I mean, it all sounds like really good stuff, but like, why a church?

00:26:59.020 | Why is a church doing this, right?

00:27:01.220 | And I think part of the answer is, well, it comes down to we believe every person is a minister.

00:27:06.380 | Every person needs ministry.

00:27:08.000 | And, yeah, you might be old, but there's still so much value you can bring and so much wisdom.

00:27:13.900 | And how do we actually find a way to, yeah, create that avenue, create that context, and really add value to everyone else?

00:27:22.820 | And I think it's a really amazing thing.

00:27:25.780 | On the flip side, any, like, challenges or things that have been tough as you start this new ministry up?

00:27:30.800 | So, what I just mentioned is the challenge.

00:27:33.660 | Okay.

00:27:33.920 | Because, like, for me, you know, I have my health challenges, too, my hearing and everything.

00:27:41.140 | And so, our Barnabas team is sometime, so about, like, one-third of the team is out for any given time.

00:27:52.460 | And it's because, you know, we're going through that season, whether it be our own or our family members.

00:27:59.560 | And so, that's been a challenge, but we just roll with it.

00:28:04.100 | And whoever's – someone is better than no one when it comes to a team meeting and who could do what.

00:28:11.400 | And so, we're also – one of the challenges that we met with is Barnabas on the Road is that while it was great to connect with people across the network over Zoom, there's something about in-person ministry.

00:28:27.860 | And so, because these are, like, seasoned ministers who were leading their own, like, ministry before, and they're taking this other step towards Barnabas ministry, they are really missing that, like, I want to pour into you.

00:28:43.120 | Face-to-face.

00:28:43.660 | Yeah, face-to-face, person-to-person.

00:28:45.440 | Can't substitute for that.

00:28:46.520 | Exactly.

00:28:47.640 | And so, that's why, like, going to Merced or even SoCal, that was really great.

00:28:53.560 | And so, most of the Barnabas people are, like, here in Berkeley, right?

00:28:56.800 | We don't really have –

00:28:57.840 | Well, we did recruit across the network some deputies, but I think that's our challenge for this upcoming year is to really mobilize a robust Barnabas ministry that they could do within their regions.

00:29:15.120 | Do you have, like, a number for how many are here and how many are –

00:29:17.780 | Sure.

00:29:18.020 | Right now, in our R&D group, it's just 13.

00:29:20.980 | Okay.

00:29:21.360 | Those are the people with developing the courses.

00:29:22.800 | Yes, uh-huh, but we did train up specifically for marriage equipping 33 couples network-wide in addition to this.

00:29:31.260 | Let's go.

00:29:31.580 | Yeah.

00:29:32.260 | Oh, yeah.

00:29:32.740 | But they're very busy.

00:29:34.060 | A lot of demand.

00:29:36.060 | A lot of young couples.

00:29:36.900 | Oh, they're all in frontline ministries.

00:29:38.880 | Waitlist is long.

00:29:40.020 | Yeah, I see, I see.

00:29:41.380 | Yeah, so even though they were trained, we spent eight hours per cohort.

00:29:44.380 | We have four cohorts, and we spent eight hours per cohort, but they're very busy.

00:29:49.380 | Do these people have, like, certifications, professional, or is it just more like, this is not meant to substitute professional?

00:29:55.560 | Like, what sort of – yeah.

00:29:57.440 | That's a good point.

00:29:58.380 | We don't do marriage counseling.

00:30:00.200 | Okay.

00:30:00.660 | Marriage counseling looks in the past to figure out the root issues.

00:30:04.840 | Okay.

00:30:05.220 | We do marriage equipping.

00:30:07.080 | We go from present to the future.

00:30:09.120 | Yeah, yeah.

00:30:09.980 | So we don't, you know, decipher or discern what happened in the past.

00:30:14.300 | We're going to start with today and move forward.

00:30:16.860 | Give you tools.

00:30:17.760 | Tools.

00:30:18.080 | With tools and tips.

00:30:19.680 | Got it.

00:30:20.160 | Yeah.

00:30:20.640 | And practices that has worked for many of us.

00:30:22.780 | So hopefully you don't need as much counseling.

00:30:24.640 | Exactly.

00:30:25.360 | So it's more preventive.

00:30:27.540 | Yeah.

00:30:27.900 | And as Stephen was asking, what are some highlights or bright spots?

00:30:32.360 | I really believe that, I mean, the mission or the purpose of Barnabas exists so that we may support kingdom workers to stay in ministry.

00:30:44.220 | Yeah.

00:30:45.020 | And let me just share how even Psalm 103, Hour of Praise, was Thanksgiving.

00:30:51.880 | It's called Psalm 103, Hour of Gratitude, led by Lauren.

00:30:57.960 | And it just started with Aditi sharing on Psalm 103.

00:31:01.280 | And Lauren was just sharing how she had struggle and she had two kids in her 30s and how Kelly gave her Psalm 103.

00:31:10.520 | And she meditated on Psalm 103 every day for about eight months.

00:31:15.120 | Wow.

00:31:15.580 | Wow.

00:31:16.700 | And this became her testimony.

00:31:19.600 | Oh, wow.

00:31:20.340 | And that day I commissioned her, you're going to write your curriculum this week.

00:31:24.660 | And she did.

00:31:26.220 | Wow.

00:31:26.600 | And that started.

00:31:28.060 | Wow.

00:31:28.640 | And it's been really fun because sometimes a group of peer sisters join together.

00:31:33.980 | Okay.

00:31:34.500 | And they take the class.

00:31:35.680 | This is very wonderful.

00:31:36.260 | And they're learning that regardless of what circumstance you're in, you can still give thanks to the Lord.

00:31:43.440 | And it really gives the proper posture of a minister.

00:31:46.900 | Yeah.

00:31:47.700 | So a lot of our, and then another bright spot is Lauren and Naomi Lee developed a support group for first year moms, first time mothers.

00:32:00.060 | And this one sister described it as weakly getting a warm blanket and being wrapped around.

00:32:07.360 | That sounds nice.

00:32:08.920 | Being supported by two older moms and other moms.

00:32:12.020 | Wow.

00:32:12.760 | So that they could sustain a ministry.

00:32:15.420 | That's cool.

00:32:16.400 | Man, that's so awesome because, yeah, you hear about like really heroic pastors, pastors' wives who are like doing it mostly alone.

00:32:24.200 | And then something hits them, you know, it could be something like an illness or it could be something like having a kid, right?

00:32:32.100 | And then because they've been doing it alone, like they burn out or, you know, or like, you know, you're just having a kid just Googling everything about the kid and you get more anxious, you know?

00:32:41.260 | You don't have those figures, older figures in your life to help you with that.

00:32:45.420 | So then what happens is a lot of them, when they need to step back from ministry, they never step back in, you know?

00:32:52.640 | Yeah.

00:32:52.880 | And so I think we really underappreciate, like the church is meant to come and support that, you know?

00:32:59.920 | And yeah, so.

00:33:01.420 | Yeah.

00:33:01.760 | For me, the thing that's really exciting about Barnabas is we really want people to develop.

00:33:07.480 | And what we did was, and we're going to do more of this, is we took the workshops that were given at ATTR.

00:33:13.620 | Oh, yeah, like the 90 plus.

00:33:15.020 | And then we're doing follow-ups.

00:33:16.640 | Oh, okay.

00:33:17.160 | So one of them is note-taking.

00:33:18.500 | Okay.

00:33:19.080 | And it's so fun when one sister, who's taking, she's a mom of two.

00:33:25.060 | In her busy schedule, she wants to be a better note-taker so that she could internalize the word of God.

00:33:31.240 | And as she is all there to take better notes, receiving tools and tips, she's like, wow, pastor is getting more organized.

00:33:40.080 | We're like, no, you're listening better.

00:33:41.840 | Maybe both.

00:33:43.820 | So you see personal development, even among busy moms who have that desire to grow.

00:33:51.380 | So that's been really exciting for me.

00:33:53.540 | And that was developed by Emily, Jonathan Wang, and Ilju.

00:33:56.140 | Yeah.

00:33:56.520 | That's neat.

00:33:57.180 | As you were talking about Lauren meditating on Psalm 103 for eight months, I was just thinking like, wow, that's the reason we need Barnabas?

00:34:03.820 | Because, I mean, how many first years have meditated on any passage of Bible for eight months?

00:34:09.120 | Or even read.

00:34:10.180 | Probably count on one hand.

00:34:11.800 | Yeah, right?

00:34:12.520 | Like, so, and yet there are older people in our church who've done stuff like that, and now they're kind of taking all that treasure and passing it on.

00:34:20.140 | So that's just, it's neat.

00:34:21.300 | Yeah.

00:34:21.700 | Yeah.

00:34:22.060 | I'm thankful for that.

00:34:22.820 | What an encouragement.

00:34:23.520 | What an encouragement.

00:34:24.460 | You know, one other, I guess, group that we're kind of ministering to indirectly are like you guys.

00:34:31.620 | You know, as you're leading a church plant, you can't do everything in helping your team.

00:34:39.240 | And so we just want to come alongside and just be an encouragement to help in whatever way.

00:34:44.860 | Make our staff better.

00:34:46.020 | Without us doing it.

00:34:48.080 | Yeah.

00:34:48.280 | That's great.

00:34:48.720 | I feel guilty sometimes.

00:34:49.860 | I'm like, oh man, I'm not getting, because I think, like, you're naming one of the differences maybe, or distinctives.

00:34:55.400 | One of the things we value is like life, whole life discipleship, right?

00:34:58.460 | And your leaders, not just your spiritual leaders.

00:35:00.740 | It's like, I'm also like, hey, what's going on in your home and stuff like that?

00:35:03.580 | Because all that is overlapped.

00:35:05.340 | And you're right.

00:35:05.980 | Like, you can't do it all.

00:35:07.040 | Especially when you're in, like, a startup environment, like a church plant.

00:35:09.680 | Let me have one more thing.

00:35:11.120 | One thing that Lauren, Pastor Jonathan, and I are going towards is certification to be trainers of coaches.

00:35:18.000 | Oh, okay.

00:35:18.600 | And I have implemented coaching as part of my habit formation group.

00:35:24.260 | You can speak a little bit about coaching.

00:35:25.660 | Yeah.

00:35:26.340 | Because I think people generally don't.

00:35:27.880 | So, I forget the exact number, but hundreds of us were certified in being a coach.

00:35:35.920 | And the premise of coaching is that you're not there to solve the person's problem.

00:35:40.500 | You're there to address the person.

00:35:45.060 | It's the development of the person in front of you.

00:35:47.820 | And in addition to the individual certification, the three of us are accruing 100 more hours of coaching experience so that we could train other coaches.

00:35:58.760 | And taking more classes with Mary.

00:36:01.060 | So, we took three additional classes.

00:36:03.460 | And we even had three additional sessions with Mary Seltzer to train us on coaching.

00:36:12.340 | And the beauty of coaching is that you become such a good listener.

00:36:18.380 | You absolutely need to practice active listening because you're not there to solve the problem.

00:36:25.100 | You're there to take that person to another level of self-awareness.

00:36:31.060 | Because without self-awareness, we're not going to grow.

00:36:34.300 | And I'm really excited about that.

00:36:37.000 | I still have another 40-some hours of coaching to a crew.

00:36:41.160 | But I'm becoming a better listener.

00:36:43.820 | And I'm becoming a better person minister than solving this specific problem.

00:36:50.080 | I'm such a person who wants to solve problems.

00:36:54.080 | But that's sometimes secondary.

00:36:56.060 | We really need to help the person see themselves through their own eyes and learn from what they're going through.

00:37:04.260 | So, that's been our new addition lately.

00:37:06.800 | Yeah, I guess also, our big ultimate goal in Barnabas is to produce things that will outlast us.

00:37:17.820 | So, it's got to be sustainable.

00:37:20.540 | It should not be dependent on, like, the old, wise people who's dispensing the wisdom.

00:37:26.460 | It should be able to be trained up to someone, you know, who has moderate wisdom, and then turn it around, and then continue to give this kind of wisdom and support to others.

00:37:40.220 | And so, coaching, we feel like this is a tool that if we learn how to do it right and get better at it, then, you know, like, let's say, 50 years from now, that could continue to help our co-vocational ministry team members.

00:37:56.080 | And then, we heard from OneChurchPlan, as their director has to be gone a lot, that their peers are coaching each other.

00:38:03.780 | Oh, okay.

00:38:04.300 | And they're learning to help each other out in that aspect.

00:38:08.260 | And this is all through, like, the Coach Approach Ministries thing?

00:38:11.180 | Yeah.

00:38:11.700 | Mm-hmm.

00:38:12.800 | International.

00:38:13.280 | Yeah.

00:38:13.920 | I mean, there's so many different companies.

00:38:16.120 | Okay.

00:38:16.560 | But Mary, Mary Seltzer, she's the one.

00:38:20.280 | She's the best.

00:38:20.840 | She's the best of all of them.

00:38:22.340 | I was in a training with her, and we did a group coaching session.

00:38:26.600 | She asked the question, and I was like, oh, man.

00:38:28.420 | I know.

00:38:28.960 | Pass the tissues, please.

00:38:30.280 | I know.

00:38:31.720 | She calls them the powerful questions.

00:38:34.260 | Yeah.

00:38:35.400 | Yeah.

00:38:35.860 | Wow.

00:38:36.780 | Anything else in terms of just future?

00:38:38.900 | I mean, I think everyone's been so excited to hear about it, and I know your guys' wait list is, like, super long.

00:38:44.100 | Yeah.

00:38:44.280 | Like, what's the vision for Barnabas going forward?

00:38:46.080 | Like, any new things you want to try?

00:38:49.060 | I think right now, the big, I guess, burden that I personally have, and we've been talking here and there, but it's setting up enough Barnabas people across the entire network.

00:39:11.400 | Because, yes, we could do it over Zoom, but we'd much rather have it within the context of a local community right there.

00:39:20.320 | And so how to set apart, as sacred to the Lord, these people who are in their 40s, maybe, or in their 50s, in these different regions.

00:39:34.680 | And where we could have direct access to them so that we could, you know, utilize their wisdom in developing new courses.

00:39:43.720 | Because we're right now, we're just kind of based out here in Berkeley, Alameda.

00:39:48.440 | But that's our, for me, that's my number one challenge for 2025.

00:39:54.340 | Somehow getting the other Barnabas recruits across the network.

00:40:01.060 | Yeah.

00:40:01.580 | So that's one.

00:40:03.360 | One, the other is, you know, some of the specific, like, marriage equipping tools.

00:40:09.480 | So some of the raw components could be applied to any relationship.

00:40:14.560 | So singles could really benefit from how to apologize.

00:40:19.940 | Conflict.

00:40:21.060 | You know, yeah, how to apologize to your housemates and, you know, how to have assertive statements so you could speak what you want instead of just going the roundabout way.

00:40:33.220 | And it leads to frustrations and stuff like that.

00:40:35.460 | So that's the next phase that we need to develop.

00:40:37.220 | So those two for me.

00:40:39.280 | Another area that I feel very excited about developing is how to be of a more of a support for a foreign missions team.

00:40:47.000 | We got the sweetest thank you from one of the couples who watched our video from ATTR, our marriage communication tools.

00:40:55.560 | And because of that email, we're like, we've got to develop more.

00:41:00.320 | Yeah.

00:41:00.820 | So we want to be a support to not just people here in the domestic side, but also in the foreign mission side.

00:41:06.500 | We actually had a couple from Taiwan who zoomed in for one of our workshops because the timing worked out somehow.

00:41:16.240 | So, yeah.

00:41:18.140 | That's crazy.

00:41:18.820 | It's a global support.

00:41:20.120 | Yeah.

00:41:20.500 | Yeah.

00:41:20.960 | Barnabas goes international.

00:41:22.620 | That's awesome.

00:41:23.640 | In just one year.

00:41:25.460 | Yeah.

00:41:25.840 | That is on the fast track.

00:41:28.120 | Yeah.

00:41:28.380 | Wow.

00:41:28.800 | Wow.

00:41:29.940 | Well, it's so good to hear about all of this.

00:41:32.520 | And I think I'm just looking forward to more, you know, and hopefully this gives everyone out there who's wondering, like, what's happening next with it?

00:41:39.640 | You know, a little better picture.

00:41:42.280 | So, yeah, please pray for them.

00:41:44.180 | Please pray for their help.

00:41:45.260 | Please pray that they'll be able to just continue to take that wisdom and distill it down to something that can be passed down.

00:41:52.040 | So, really thankful for you guys.

00:41:53.280 | Thanks for joining us.

00:41:54.480 | And it's been good to hear.

00:41:56.200 | Yeah.

00:41:56.840 | Like and subscribe.

00:41:58.560 | And we'll see you on future episodes.

00:42:00.020 | All right.

Ep.15 - Barnabas ministry

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