How to Build Great Teams | Jocko Willink & Dr. Andrew Huberman
00:00:00.000 | In yourself and in your observation of people
00:00:04.800 | that you've worked with,
00:00:06.660 | did you ever sense that just being hard driving
00:00:09.880 | was kind of, it was great, but it was limiting?
00:00:13.900 | Like, did you ever sense that like,
00:00:15.180 | by liking the people you work with,
00:00:16.820 | you could perform much better?
00:00:18.380 | Even if they perhaps were not as hard,
00:00:22.740 | to kind of borrow the common parlance around this,
00:00:26.080 | they weren't as hard as everybody else,
00:00:27.840 | that because you like each other so, so much,
00:00:31.040 | that you can kind of do anything.
00:00:33.000 | Well, if you have a team of 10 people
00:00:37.000 | and you all have a great relationship
00:00:38.520 | and you get along well, and you're going against my team
00:00:40.720 | and we all hate each other and who's gonna win?
00:00:43.640 | The team that loves each other is gonna win, I would hope.
00:00:45.840 | It's not even close.
00:00:46.920 | It's not even close.
00:00:47.760 | As a matter of fact, if you work for me
00:00:49.440 | and you don't like me,
00:00:51.200 | what kind of performance are you gonna give me?
00:00:53.000 | It's gonna be tough.
00:00:53.920 | What if you love me and I've looked out for you
00:00:56.680 | and I've done everything for you
00:00:57.880 | and I've taken care of you,
00:00:59.000 | what kind of performance are you gonna give me?
00:01:00.400 | - I'm like a dog, I'd die for you.
00:01:02.240 | - So yeah, and you know, earlier you asked about
00:01:06.320 | the human animal and human nature,
00:01:08.240 | and this is part of leadership.
00:01:11.920 | I got asked this question the other day
00:01:12.960 | by, I was working with a company,
00:01:15.320 | and the guy says, you know, how do I identify,
00:01:18.080 | what are the characteristics of someone that can execute
00:01:20.600 | and how do I identify those characteristics in a person
00:01:24.800 | so that I can get those people?
00:01:26.960 | And I said, well, first of all,
00:01:30.720 | the characteristics are the characteristics
00:01:32.520 | that everybody's, you know, obviously someone that's driven,
00:01:34.440 | someone that can communicate well,
00:01:35.440 | someone that's gonna make things happen.
00:01:36.640 | Those are pretty simple to know.
00:01:38.620 | We know what they are.
00:01:39.640 | How do you identify them?
00:01:40.520 | It's pretty simple as well.
00:01:42.240 | I give you a task.
00:01:43.400 | I give Andrew a task.
00:01:44.680 | It's a pretty simple task.
00:01:46.040 | If you get it done, cool.
00:01:47.680 | Give you a little bit more complex task.
00:01:49.840 | Do you get it done?
00:01:50.680 | Yes.
00:01:51.500 | I give the same task to Fred.
00:01:52.960 | He doesn't get it done.
00:01:53.800 | He comes back with a bunch of questions.
00:01:55.120 | He slow rolls it.
00:01:56.080 | He's got all kinds of excuses and problems.
00:01:57.800 | I give you an even more complex task.
00:01:59.480 | You come back, you get it done,
00:02:01.280 | and then I'm gonna realize, okay,
00:02:03.120 | Andrew's the guy that makes things happen.
00:02:04.920 | He's a guy that can actually execute.
00:02:07.620 | And it's a little bit what you said.
00:02:10.600 | I mean, there's certain breeds of dogs,
00:02:12.060 | but even that is, they're not as different
00:02:16.480 | as human beings are, right?
00:02:21.040 | And there are some, so now there are some guys,
00:02:23.520 | I've got Andrew who will make things happen.
00:02:26.360 | Here's the problem with Andrew.
00:02:28.000 | When I say, hey, Andrew, here's this nebulous idea
00:02:32.480 | that I have, can you turn this into a reality?
00:02:34.960 | And you're like, where do I start?
00:02:37.680 | I'm not sure where you want me to go.
00:02:39.120 | Meanwhile, I gave it to the guy
00:02:40.360 | that didn't make anything happen
00:02:42.140 | with specific tasks that I gave him.
00:02:44.280 | And he comes back and says, you know, I say,
00:02:46.000 | hey, I got this nebulous idea.
00:02:47.040 | Can you see what you, he goes, oh yeah.
00:02:48.800 | And all of a sudden he takes it and he says,
00:02:50.440 | hey, I figured out a way to make this happen.
00:02:52.100 | So you might have someone that's very good at executing,
00:02:54.800 | but they're not very creative.
00:02:55.980 | I might have somebody that's very creative,
00:02:57.640 | but they're not very good at executing.
00:02:59.480 | So what do I do?
00:03:00.640 | I build a team where I've got Andrew and Fred
00:03:03.040 | and they work together.
00:03:04.200 | And Fred comes up with good ideas
00:03:06.180 | and we bring them to Andrew and Andrew goes and executes him.
00:03:08.940 | So that's what we're doing from a leadership perspective
00:03:12.160 | is we're letting people's nature execute
00:03:17.160 | and we're putting people into roles
00:03:20.520 | where their nature is beneficial.
00:03:23.360 | I'm not gonna take someone that's shy and introverted
00:03:26.760 | and put them out in the lead sales role.
00:03:28.120 | I'm not gonna take somebody that's boisterous
00:03:29.960 | and extroverted and put them into a cubicle
00:03:32.600 | where they're gonna be looking at spreadsheets all day.
00:03:35.200 | Clearly I'm not gonna do that.
00:03:36.760 | So what we have to do as leaders
00:03:38.320 | is we have to find the right people for the right role
00:03:40.840 | and we place them into those roles.
00:03:42.500 | Now, does it mean that I abandon all hope
00:03:45.120 | that the guy that's an introvert
00:03:46.400 | will ever develop more communication skills?
00:03:49.480 | No, I'm still gonna work with him.
00:03:50.880 | And over time we'll get him a little bit moving
00:03:53.240 | in the right direction.
00:03:54.700 | But I'm not gonna take somebody that's a total introvert
00:03:59.480 | and turn them into a lead sales guy.
00:04:01.200 | That's not going to happen
00:04:02.520 | any more than I'm gonna change a tiger stripes.
00:04:04.500 | So that's what we have to do
00:04:06.120 | is we have to help people as leaders.
00:04:09.520 | We have to help people find the role
00:04:11.280 | and find the thing that they're good at.
00:04:13.680 | Now, does that mean if I have someone that loves their job,
00:04:18.500 | they're gonna do better at it?
00:04:20.160 | Absolutely.
00:04:21.560 | Does it mean that if I have somebody
00:04:23.440 | that's driven just by achievement,
00:04:27.360 | that they're gonna be good at their job?
00:04:29.120 | No, in fact, well, they can be.
00:04:31.400 | There's gonna be certain roles I can put them in, right?
00:04:33.560 | If I've got a sales number I need to hit
00:04:35.080 | and Andrew's super into achievement,
00:04:37.480 | he wants to be the golden child
00:04:39.280 | and wants to have his picture on the magazine
00:04:43.000 | that we put out about our industry.
00:04:45.280 | Cool, I can throw this task at you
00:04:47.880 | and you're gonna go and get it.
00:04:50.300 | The problem is if there's something
00:04:52.760 | that's gonna take more perseverance
00:04:54.980 | and the reward isn't that high, or it's a long-term goal,
00:04:58.360 | you're probably not the right guy for the job.
00:05:00.800 | So liking your job is absolutely critical.
00:05:05.800 | And if you love your job,
00:05:06.760 | you're gonna be able to most likely excel at it.
00:05:10.040 | Now, you could be an unfortunate person
00:05:11.480 | that loves your job and is not good at it.
00:05:14.080 | That happens occasionally, right?
00:05:15.560 | - Yeah, but it seems, it sure does, but it seems pretty rare.
00:05:18.440 | - It reminds me of your skateboarding career.
00:05:20.200 | You love skateboarding, but you just weren't that good at it.
00:05:23.080 | - I wasn't that good at it.
00:05:23.920 | But you know what I loved more than skateboarding?
00:05:26.280 | I loved the community I was in.
00:05:28.060 | I loved the community I was in.
00:05:29.560 | And I probably would have gone to the industry side
00:05:32.200 | or worked on a company side
00:05:33.640 | and not been on the actual skateboard side
00:05:35.800 | or just skateboard for fun.
00:05:37.400 | So there's a guy in the skateboard community,
00:05:39.040 | his name is Jim Thiebaud,
00:05:40.040 | and he's kind of the not so hidden secret in that community.
00:05:43.440 | He's an amazing guy and he sort of early on
00:05:46.560 | left professional skateboarding to run a company,
00:05:49.360 | Real Deluxe, a bunch of other companies.
00:05:50.880 | He's an amazing guy.
00:05:51.740 | And he told me, we'd become friends recently,
00:05:53.800 | and he said, he realized he wasn't gonna be
00:05:55.800 | one of the big guys,
00:05:56.880 | but he knew he wanted to be in this community.
00:05:58.580 | So he found his place.
00:05:59.960 | And I think everyone in skateboarding looks to Jim
00:06:01.800 | as like the guy who cares, he truly cares
00:06:06.800 | about the sport and about the people.
00:06:08.440 | And so he learned to kind of just wrap his arms
00:06:10.240 | and his heart around the whole thing, and it just works.
00:06:12.600 | And so I do think everyone has a certain place
00:06:15.980 | in a community or in a team.
00:06:18.520 | I think that as you're describing this,
00:06:20.080 | I have to imagine that people are listening and thinking,
00:06:23.280 | like, wow, this team thing is awesome.
00:06:26.740 | Like, it's just amazing.
00:06:28.120 | I wish I had that, right?
00:06:29.600 | I'm fortunate to have that in my podcast.
00:06:31.400 | I've had that in my lab, certainly in my podcast team.
00:06:34.680 | I would say, these guys go, I go.
00:06:36.940 | Like, it's not just people that press buttons
00:06:40.740 | and run equipment, take photos, like, they go, I go.
00:06:42.680 | Like, they go, it's over.
00:06:43.960 | And I'm fine with that.
00:06:44.960 | I actually love that because it's, yes,
00:06:47.160 | it's about the podcast and about the information
00:06:49.500 | and getting it out there,
00:06:50.340 | but it's as much about the team and working together
00:06:52.720 | just like it was with skateboarding.
00:06:55.040 | (upbeat music)
00:06:57.620 | (upbeat music)
00:07:00.200 | (upbeat music)