590-Who_Should_Never_Have_a_Credit_Card
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00:00:25.680 | Welcome to Radical Personal Finance, a show dedicated to providing you with the knowledge,
00:00:28.880 | skills, insight, and encouragement you need to live a rich and meaningful life now while
00:00:33.320 | building a plan for financial freedom in 10 years or less.
00:00:36.760 | My name is Joshua.
00:00:37.760 | I am your host, and today we continue our credit card week here on Radical Personal
00:00:40.800 | Finance with a discussion on who should not have credit cards.
00:00:46.800 | All this week and last week, I have been focused on the topic of credit cards as we celebrate
00:00:50.880 | the launch of my newest course, which is called How to Borrow Money Safely and Never Pay Interest
00:00:57.000 | Using Credit Cards.
00:00:58.640 | And so on Monday, of course, I shared with you one of my arguments, an excerpt from the
00:01:02.680 | course called Credit Card Debt is a Very Safe Form of Debt.
00:01:06.000 | I also shared with you on Tuesday another argument called Credit Card Loans Can Provide
00:01:09.800 | a Way to Privately Purchase Goods and Services.
00:01:12.680 | On Wednesday, yesterday, I shared with you an excerpt of the course called How to Manage
00:01:17.400 | Cash While You Pay Off Your Credit Cards.
00:01:19.840 | And today, I'm not going to share with you an excerpt, but I want to answer one important
00:01:23.320 | question, which is who should not have credit cards and frankly, who should not take my
00:01:28.320 | course because as I said to you on Monday, my course is designed if you have a credit
00:01:33.040 | card currently of any kind, one or 50, or if you think you might ever have a credit
00:01:37.600 | card in the future, I really want you to learn from what I have to teach you in this particular
00:01:42.800 | course.
00:01:43.800 | So remember this week, if you sign up before we go on, sign up this week prior to Monday,
00:01:48.600 | October 15, 2018, you can save 10 bucks by going to radicalpersonalfinance.com/creditcardcourse
00:01:54.360 | to sign up and then using the coupon code creditcard10, T-E-N, that'll save you 10
00:01:59.240 | bucks, brings the total cost of the course down to $29.
00:02:01.960 | So do that now if you haven't done it yet because tomorrow I am hosting a live Q&A call
00:02:07.280 | for anyone who has purchased the course and I really want to actually have some callers
00:02:11.600 | and not do that by myself.
00:02:12.600 | And I want to answer your specific questions in that Friday live Q&A call.
00:02:18.040 | Now let's talk about who shouldn't have credit cards.
00:02:21.440 | Here is the major challenge in the world of credit cards.
00:02:25.240 | There are a lot of us who have been burned by debt.
00:02:31.540 | One of the worst things about credit cards, one of the big arguments against credit cards
00:02:36.800 | is that they make overspending very, very easy.
00:02:43.820 | If I were to go and to try to figure out what I think is an archetypal example of how credit
00:02:49.920 | card debt works, I would go back and use my own story because I think it's probably about
00:02:56.800 | the same as most people.
00:02:58.920 | I first signed up for my first credit card on my 18th birthday and I did so because I
00:03:02.720 | was a personal finance nerd and I'd read all kinds of books on how to improve my credit
00:03:06.360 | score.
00:03:07.360 | I knew how important my credit score was and I decided that the best way to do that was
00:03:10.800 | to sign up for a credit card, of course.
00:03:12.200 | So, of course, it was a very small credit card.
00:03:14.660 | Now when you're building up your credit score, one of the first things that you want to do
00:03:17.900 | is start to establish credit accounts and then to let those credit accounts season.
00:03:22.720 | They need time because, of course, one of the big influences on your credit score is
00:03:26.580 | the length of credit that you have.
00:03:29.220 | And so I started to use my credit card, but I was very, very focused on always paying
00:03:34.700 | it off.
00:03:35.700 | Very, very focused.
00:03:38.500 | Most people are.
00:03:40.800 | Most people sign up for a credit card with a clear intention of never carrying a balance.
00:03:46.020 | I have again and again and again heard people say, "I use credit cards and I never carry
00:03:52.620 | a balance."
00:03:53.620 | I think that's great.
00:03:56.020 | I did the same thing for at least a couple years.
00:04:01.400 | And then at that point in time, I was kind of in a bind.
00:04:04.300 | I think this happened during the end of my sophomore year of college.
00:04:09.920 | And here's what my personal situation was.
00:04:12.620 | I was working my way through college.
00:04:15.220 | I paid for my own college and I'm very thankful for that.
00:04:18.180 | It was a great thing.
00:04:19.180 | My parents always said, "We'd love for you to go to school, but pay for it yourself."
00:04:21.380 | So work hard and get good grades.
00:04:23.220 | I love that plan.
00:04:24.220 | It was a great plan.
00:04:25.220 | So I paid for my own college, but I didn't have enough scholarships to cover all of my
00:04:30.400 | tuition, and I chose to go to a fairly expensive private school.
00:04:35.100 | I also chose to live on campus because I wanted to have the full so-called college experience,
00:04:40.700 | which also brought a whole bunch of other expenses, which in hindsight were unnecessary
00:04:44.700 | and I wish I hadn't done it, but whatever.
00:04:46.860 | That was the decision that I made as an 18-year-old.
00:04:50.480 | My freshman year of college, I worked a total of about three jobs throughout the year in
00:04:54.640 | order to pay for my schooling.
00:04:56.700 | And I was able to get through my freshman year of college without borrowing money.
00:05:02.420 | I had scholarships that covered some of my expenses.
00:05:05.980 | I had an on-campus job in my dorm that gave me a small amount of income.
00:05:11.020 | I spent my weekends doing construction work during the day, especially Saturday.
00:05:15.460 | I had one employer who was building an addition on his house.
00:05:18.560 | He was also in the construction trade, and so I'd go and work with him every Saturday
00:05:22.020 | in addition to some other stuff whenever I had school breaks.
00:05:25.340 | And then I also drove a bicycle rickshaw around the city where I lived on Thursday night,
00:05:30.780 | Friday night, and Saturday night to provide income from driving the bicycle rickshaw around.
00:05:36.740 | Those are my three jobs.
00:05:38.620 | And frankly, I was tired by the end of the year.
00:05:41.100 | I was tired.
00:05:42.780 | And I spent so much time working that I missed out on some of the other playing that I could
00:05:48.620 | have done if I hadn't been spending so much time working.
00:05:52.120 | When you go and on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, you have a job in the afternoon and evenings
00:05:58.880 | outside of your class, then on Thursday evening, you go down and ride a bicycle rickshaw from
00:06:03.740 | what, I guess, probably about six o'clock till 10 o'clock.
00:06:07.820 | And then on Friday, you go and ride from five o'clock until 2 a.m.
00:06:11.460 | And then you get up early and at 8 a.m. you're on the construction job site, work from eight
00:06:15.260 | till four, and then four o'clock, go home, shower, put on your clothes, and go ride the
00:06:19.140 | bicycle rickshaw from five or six until 2 a.m. again.
00:06:22.660 | Well, you could understand I was a little bit tired.
00:06:25.020 | And so I decided that I was going to take it easier.
00:06:28.420 | So I pulled back and in my sophomore year of school, I pulled back my course load from
00:06:32.800 | I think I'd been taking 15 and 18 hours my freshman year, pulled it back to 12 or 15
00:06:37.660 | hours, and I decided to quit working.
00:06:40.680 | And so I took out student loans, but I didn't know enough to take out more student loans
00:06:45.080 | for my expenses.
00:06:46.080 | I just took out student loans for my tuition, which also covered my room and board.
00:06:51.720 | And I didn't know how to cover my other expenses.
00:06:54.600 | So I went ahead and started using my credit card to pay for food, put gas in the car,
00:06:59.000 | et cetera.
00:07:00.000 | And my credit card started, debt started to build.
00:07:03.280 | Now my junior year of school, I studied abroad.
00:07:05.740 | And I, again, my credit card debt started to build.
00:07:08.840 | And I wound up coming back from my study abroad with significant amount of student loan debt
00:07:13.840 | and significant credit card debt, not knowing what to do.
00:07:18.960 | And I experienced that first place that most of us have been.
00:07:22.400 | I've got a bunch of debt, and I don't know how to pay it off, which means I had to go
00:07:27.480 | to work.
00:07:30.400 | Now I worked really hard my senior year, and I paid off the credit card debt, paid off
00:07:35.040 | the credit card debt, paid off my student loans, was able to graduate, sorry, was able
00:07:38.160 | to pay off all my debt before and graduate debt free, which was great.
00:07:41.840 | Until a number of years later, when I was building a business and I didn't have enough
00:07:46.120 | money and I started borrowing money and credit card debt again.
00:07:50.200 | And along the way, I've made all the decisions about, I'm never going to borrow credit card
00:07:55.640 | debt.
00:07:56.640 | And then I'm going to embrace credit card debt fully.
00:07:58.740 | And I've vacillated back and forth.
00:08:01.080 | A major influence on my life when I was in college was the teaching of Dave Ramsey against
00:08:07.200 | debt, against credit cards.
00:08:09.800 | And I followed his advice.
00:08:12.960 | At least once or twice, I entirely canceled every credit card that I have.
00:08:17.200 | I shared with you last week that when I was in college at that point in time, I had worked
00:08:22.000 | hard to build up my credit card, available credit limits up to about a hundred thousand
00:08:27.480 | dollars.
00:08:28.480 | Well, after college, when I got out of debt, I canceled all of those and I had no credit
00:08:32.200 | cards, no access to credit.
00:08:35.080 | Now here's what I've learned watching and doing financial counseling with many people.
00:08:40.560 | Most people's experiences will reflect my own.
00:08:46.940 | In the sense that we are committed to not carrying a credit card balance until we actually
00:08:54.280 | do carry a credit card balance.
00:08:57.240 | Or we're committed to not borrowing money on credit cards.
00:08:59.920 | And we may even cancel our credit cards until we wind up in a situation where we see no
00:09:04.800 | other alternative.
00:09:07.560 | And then we go ahead and apply for them again.
00:09:10.000 | I can't remember the exact details of when I applied for credit cards after having canceled
00:09:15.600 | them all, but it went much like many people's lives where I had canceled all my credit cards.
00:09:19.520 | I'm not going to go borrow the money.
00:09:20.680 | And then I went into credit card debt again.
00:09:23.960 | And hopefully this doesn't sound too harsh, but you're probably just about like me because
00:09:31.400 | in my years doing this, I have stopped believing people when they said, I don't carry a balance
00:09:38.240 | or I don't have credit card debt.
00:09:42.080 | Now it's not that people are necessarily insincere about that.
00:09:45.920 | I believe people when they say, yeah, I don't mean to carry a balance, but life happens.
00:09:54.280 | And I could take 15 minutes and describe specific people that said, I don't borrow money on
00:09:59.320 | credit cards or I don't carry a credit card debt balance.
00:10:04.160 | And then a couple of years later, I found out that they had one.
00:10:07.720 | What happened in between?
00:10:08.720 | Well, life happened.
00:10:10.480 | Nothing changed.
00:10:13.000 | And it hurt me for a while because I stopped counting on people.
00:10:15.520 | I stopped believing anything people said till I just realized that just like me, they believed
00:10:21.540 | it when they said it, but they hadn't thought ahead to understand the situation that they
00:10:26.440 | might be in someday.
00:10:29.780 | And I don't think this credit card business of should I have a credit card or not have
00:10:33.180 | a credit card is as simple or as black and white as many people wish it were.
00:10:38.540 | Because although credit cards can be extremely dangerous, they can also be extremely safe.
00:10:42.560 | And although credit cards can enable routine overspending, they can also be a way out of
00:10:46.220 | a crisis.
00:10:47.920 | Many people have tried to start a business using their credit cards and have failed completely
00:10:52.860 | and declared bankruptcy.
00:10:54.720 | Many people have also successfully started a business using financing from their credit
00:11:00.340 | cards.
00:11:02.100 | Credit cards can be valuable.
00:11:03.860 | They can be very useful.
00:11:08.280 | But circumstances are different for different people.
00:11:12.660 | Now here is the conviction that I have come to.
00:11:17.180 | I make this very clear in the course in a module called, "Should You Use Credit Cards
00:11:22.500 | as a Source of Financing?"
00:11:25.000 | It's my personal belief that you should never accumulate credit card debt.
00:11:33.780 | You should never accumulate credit card debt.
00:11:38.620 | And I will fight tooth and nail to try to persuade you of that position.
00:11:46.260 | I will fight tooth and nail to try to help you to avoid what I've seen so many people
00:11:51.100 | do.
00:11:53.060 | Most commonly, somebody loses their job, they get their hours cut back at work, something
00:11:59.540 | happens and they don't curb their spending because they think it's a temporary problem.
00:12:05.660 | That's where most people wind up in credit card debt.
00:12:09.080 | They think, "Well, I just got laid off, but I'll probably get a job in a month or
00:12:13.800 | two so it won't be a big deal to pay off a month or two worth of credit card debt."
00:12:20.580 | And then six months later, they're still unemployed and they're stuck.
00:12:24.460 | Or they get their hours cut or their pay cut for whatever reason and they think, "Well,
00:12:27.980 | it's only temporary, it's only a small amount," and they don't make drastic decisions.
00:12:31.540 | And I'm here to beg you and plead with you, don't do that.
00:12:36.820 | First, don't be a stupid young person routinely overspending as so many of us have, buying
00:12:42.580 | stupid things that you can't afford and paying retail prices because you just swipe
00:12:45.780 | your credit card.
00:12:46.780 | Don't do that.
00:12:47.780 | But you know that already.
00:12:48.780 | And I'm here to beg with you and plead with you, don't ever allow yourself to choose
00:12:52.980 | to go into debt when you're facing personal hardship.
00:12:57.100 | It will be easier for you to always cut your expenses quickly than it will be for you to
00:13:03.260 | go into debt.
00:13:06.460 | It'll be much easier for you to make that decision because it shortens the overall length
00:13:12.940 | of your pain.
00:13:15.900 | If you lose your job and you find yourself without choices, meaning you don't have income,
00:13:22.020 | but yet you need to put some food in your refrigerator, don't use a credit card.
00:13:29.780 | Because if you do use a credit card and you go out and this month you spend your typical
00:13:33.180 | $700 on food, here's the problem.
00:13:39.460 | You'll accumulate $700 of credit card debt, which you'll then maintain until six months
00:13:47.740 | from now you get reemployed again.
00:13:51.180 | But six months from now you're going to have a food budget again of $700.
00:13:57.660 | So now six months from now you're going to have double the food expenses.
00:14:04.740 | You're going to have $700 of, let's just pretend that today is October, so six months from
00:14:09.700 | now is April.
00:14:11.020 | You're going to have the $700 April budget and you're going to have the $700 October
00:14:15.820 | budget to pay off.
00:14:19.940 | It's hard to pay $1,400 off in a month.
00:14:22.740 | You say, of course, nobody would pay $1,400 off in a month.
00:14:28.140 | They'll just pay $14 off in a month.
00:14:31.620 | And what that means is this month, the October food budget, this month will get extended
00:14:38.020 | out over the next few years because it's going to take you years to pay off the credit card
00:14:42.060 | debt.
00:14:43.620 | When you finance a problem using debt, you extend that problem far beyond where it ever
00:14:48.420 | needs to be extended.
00:14:50.140 | So if you lose your job and in October you need food, don't put October's food bill on
00:14:55.900 | the next year.
00:14:56.900 | Rather, October should be the time when you cut your budget down and you change your diet
00:15:02.260 | and you eat beans and rice and peanut butter and bread every day.
00:15:05.780 | October should be the month that you go down to the food pantry and ask for help.
00:15:09.460 | October should be the month that you apply for food stamps and get the money and go to
00:15:14.140 | the grocery store in October.
00:15:15.580 | October should be the month that you say yes to your neighbor who wants to give you bags
00:15:18.940 | of zucchini and tomatoes.
00:15:20.460 | October should be the month that you go over to your parents' house and say, "Mom and Dad,
00:15:23.900 | do you have any extra food?"
00:15:24.900 | And they say, "Sure, here's a $200 gift certificate to the local grocery store."
00:15:29.100 | Do that in October because then in April, when you're well employed, you will only have
00:15:33.820 | April's expenses to deal with.
00:15:37.100 | So I don't ever want you to go into credit card debt.
00:15:40.180 | I don't ever want you to be in that desperate situation.
00:15:44.780 | Now if you're in that situation, my course will help you to get out of it, but it will
00:15:48.900 | also help you to never go there again.
00:15:54.260 | Credit cards really can be a danger.
00:15:57.660 | So who should not have credit cards and who should not buy my course?
00:16:03.460 | If you're a debt addict, as with many addictions, I think you better be pretty careful.
00:16:11.940 | This is reality.
00:16:14.620 | If you made a solemn promise, a solemn vow to yourself to say, "I will never borrow money,"
00:16:26.260 | and I mean that comprehensively, if you make that solemn promise, "I will never borrow
00:16:30.740 | money," and you are absolutely committed to that, and I mean absolutely, then of course
00:16:41.340 | you could do without credit cards.
00:16:44.340 | Now I've never really met the person who would make that solemn of a vow.
00:16:50.220 | Maybe Dave Ramsey, sorry, let me rephrase.
00:16:52.140 | Dave Ramsey has made that vow, and I'm sure that there are some people who have.
00:16:56.220 | I've talked to a few.
00:16:58.700 | I should modify my statement.
00:17:00.180 | I have talked to a few people, and frankly, I am much closer to that than probably you
00:17:07.940 | are.
00:17:08.940 | I'm 99% there.
00:17:11.060 | I am 99% there.
00:17:13.780 | But if you're in that situation, then you don't need credit cards, and you don't need
00:17:16.420 | my credit card course.
00:17:18.500 | But I want to ask you, are you absolutely there?
00:17:27.420 | Because if you're not absolutely there, I still want you to learn what I have to teach
00:17:32.300 | you in the course.
00:17:34.220 | Because most people are not absolutely there.
00:17:37.700 | They're 80% there.
00:17:39.220 | They're 90% there.
00:17:41.280 | But it's that last 10% that is so tricky.
00:17:45.860 | Because the time where that 10% matters is not normal life.
00:17:51.660 | It's crisis.
00:17:55.180 | The time to think about crisis is now.
00:17:59.180 | The time to think about what you're going to do then is now when you're not in crisis.
00:18:04.900 | Now I don't have addictions that some people have.
00:18:07.720 | Some people have drug addictions.
00:18:08.720 | Some people have alcohol addictions.
00:18:10.680 | In the past, the closest I've ever gotten to an addiction in the past, I was addicted
00:18:13.700 | to pornography.
00:18:15.960 | If you've ever been addicted to something, you know how hard it can be, how hard you
00:18:21.380 | have to fight to think in advance what you're going to do in that circumstance.
00:18:27.900 | If you were an alcohol addict, you know that if you're going to choose not to drink, you've
00:18:33.860 | got to put up major, major safeguards against drinking or drugs.
00:18:40.340 | If you're a pornography addict or if you've ever been addicted to pornography, you know
00:18:45.260 | that perhaps somebody might be able to go there.
00:18:48.100 | Somebody else might be able to go to that website.
00:18:50.840 | But for you, you've got to stay 100 miles away because that will trigger those chains
00:18:56.280 | of addiction.
00:18:57.280 | It'll trigger that well-worn groove in your mind that winds up in a place you don't want
00:19:04.940 | to be.
00:19:07.780 | And part of maturity is recognizing where you are weak.
00:19:12.820 | Part of maturity is recognizing that you're simply not a robot and making good decisions
00:19:18.620 | in advance so that when the door is opened, you don't walk through it.
00:19:27.580 | If there's something to you that's important, then you'll put in place safeguards to make
00:19:34.520 | sure you don't go where you don't want to be.
00:19:38.740 | And the same thing can happen with debt.
00:19:41.100 | So if you are addicted to overspending, if you've proven again and again that you don't
00:19:47.740 | have self-control, it's not a bit of problem in my mind if you just recognize that and
00:19:52.580 | say, "I'm not going there."
00:19:55.100 | Now while you're on your way out of debt, I think you need to take my course because
00:19:58.340 | I can get you out cheaper.
00:20:00.340 | But it's fine with me if you cancel all your credit cards on the other side.
00:20:04.140 | And I don't think you should feel ashamed about that.
00:20:06.380 | I simply caution you on this.
00:20:10.380 | Make sure that decision is absolute.
00:20:15.120 | Make sure it's irrevocable.
00:20:16.320 | Make sure you are 100% committed to saying, "I'm never going to be in debt."
00:20:23.380 | Make sure it's absolute because if not, well, you'll wind up stuck.
00:20:31.220 | You'll wind up deep in debt.
00:20:33.040 | You won't have done the stuff that I think you should do to prepare yourself for it.
00:20:37.340 | And you'll wind up exploited by the credit card industry instead of learning how to exploit
00:20:44.620 | the credit card industry.
00:20:47.260 | I don't think you're stupid for avoiding credit cards.
00:20:52.860 | I don't think you're stupid for avoiding credit cards any more than I think that somebody
00:20:57.060 | who entirely avoids ever drinking any alcohol is stupid for entirely avoiding alcohol.
00:21:04.840 | Please don't ever let yourself feel stupid because you make an absolute decision.
00:21:09.220 | If your dad was a stumbling drunk and you say, "That's it.
00:21:12.780 | I'm never drinking."
00:21:13.780 | That's not stupid.
00:21:18.460 | It's not.
00:21:19.460 | And the same thing applies to credit card debt.
00:21:22.140 | If you come from financial ruin and your dad was a stumbling debt addict that's in your
00:21:28.780 | background, it's not stupid.
00:21:31.780 | Just honestly assess it.
00:21:33.380 | And if that's the case, then I say, "Good for you."
00:21:37.980 | Here's the reality.
00:21:38.980 | I close with this thought.
00:21:42.420 | Number of years ago, I read a lot of fancy strategies.
00:21:47.100 | I talk about a lot of fancy, sexy financial strategies.
00:21:54.580 | Sometimes these things work.
00:21:55.580 | You know what though?
00:21:56.580 | A lot of times they don't.
00:21:59.580 | It's funny.
00:22:01.340 | I spent years as a financial advisor and of course the biggest, the number one most powerful
00:22:06.680 | financial guru and most listened to voice in the United States of America is Dave Ramsey.
00:22:11.780 | And you want to talk about a guy who just annoys financial advisors generally, Dave
00:22:17.180 | Ramsey, because he's simplistic.
00:22:21.460 | Now there's a fair argument to be made that's overly simplistic.
00:22:24.420 | I appreciate actually his over simplifying at this point because it's effective.
00:22:29.820 | It's more effective than what I do sometimes.
00:22:32.700 | But the reality is that if you just follow simplistic advice, it works.
00:22:40.420 | Now you'll get made fun of for it, but it works.
00:22:46.140 | It really does work.
00:22:50.540 | And you shouldn't feel ashamed about that.
00:22:56.780 | Same thing applies to debt as it applies to anything else in life.
00:23:04.100 | The teetotalers are right.
00:23:05.460 | If you never take your first drink of alcohol, you're never going to become an alcoholic.
00:23:13.580 | If you never do drugs, you're never going to be a drug addict.
00:23:18.980 | If you never go on long business trips alone with people of the opposite sex or put yourself
00:23:24.780 | in situations of people with the opposite sex, you're not going to cheat on your spouse.
00:23:31.260 | And if you don't open credit cards, you're not going to be in credit card debt.
00:23:36.340 | So don't feel bad about that.
00:23:37.460 | I respect you.
00:23:39.300 | I respect your decision.
00:23:41.260 | I don't fault it one bit.
00:23:45.580 | I don't think you're wrong.
00:23:48.580 | I don't think you're right for everyone, but I don't think you are wrong and hope that
00:23:53.060 | encourages you.
00:23:55.580 | Credit card debt can be a tremendous, tremendous trap.
00:23:59.280 | And if you are absolutely committed to never ever having a credit card and never ever borrowing
00:24:06.220 | money in any form, because that's where I want to emphasize, I would rather borrow money
00:24:10.980 | on a credit card than many other forms of financing.
00:24:13.620 | But if you're committed to that, hey, go for it.
00:24:16.380 | Now for everyone else, go to radicalpersonalfinance.com/creditcardcourse.
00:24:19.380 | Again, radicalpersonalfinance.com/creditcardcourse and sign up for my course.
00:24:24.820 | Please use coupon code credit card 10 this week until October 15, 2018.
00:24:31.680 | And you will save 10 bucks.
00:24:32.960 | Total cost, 29 bucks.
00:24:34.400 | Guarantee you, you'll learn how to save potentially thousands and thousands of dollars of interest.
00:24:40.840 | Go to radicalpersonalfinance.com/creditcardcourse.
00:24:43.920 | Use coupon code credit card 10.
00:24:45.660 | And remember to join me tomorrow.
00:24:46.960 | If you have purchased the course, join me tomorrow for a live Q&A call on any question
00:24:52.640 | you have related to credit cards.
00:24:54.560 | Thank you.
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00:25:25.860 | (thunder crashing)