Where’s the Arminian John Piper?
00:00:00.000 | Roger Olson is professor of theology at George W. Truitt Theological Seminary, Baylor University
00:00:10.040 | in Waco, Texas.
00:00:11.640 | Olson is an Armenian theologian, and recently on his blog he called for Armenians to find
00:00:15.660 | something of their own John Piper to spearhead a robust Armenian theology, someone to capture
00:00:20.920 | the attention of young Christians today.
00:00:23.620 | In speaking of you, Pastor John, Olson writes this, quote, "Unfortunately, Armenians have
00:00:28.360 | not produced such a spokesperson in recent decades," end quote.
00:00:32.200 | He goes on to say, quote, "Much of the blame for the rise of New Calvinism is ours, Armenians.
00:00:37.160 | We have failed to provide our young people with our theology," end quote.
00:00:41.280 | But is it as simple as finding their own version of John Piper, finding a leading spokesman
00:00:44.920 | to spread their theology, or is there something more fundamental in Armenian theology that
00:00:49.160 | undermines passionate and persuasive preaching?
00:00:51.520 | What would you say to questions like these, Pastor John?
00:00:53.640 | Well, there have been some very passionate and persuasive and powerful preachers of Armenian
00:01:02.120 | theology.
00:01:03.760 | John Wesley, Charles Finney, Francis Asbury, and lots of influential preachers in our day
00:01:11.760 | who are not Calvinists.
00:01:14.840 | Some of them are so doctrinally indifferent, and this is what Roger Olson is concerned
00:01:19.400 | about, they're so doctrinally indifferent that they would not want to be known as Armenians
00:01:25.280 | either.
00:01:26.280 | They don't want to be known by any doctrinal label, and they don't focus on doctrine.
00:01:30.480 | They're always trying to be practical.
00:01:32.000 | They're always trying to avoid controversy, and frankly, I think that makes them really
00:01:37.840 | effective entertainers and very ineffective shapers of the theology of the world, which
00:01:43.800 | is what lasts in the long run and shapes a culture and guides a people.
00:01:50.720 | Jesus is so glorious that even if you have only a partial view of his greatness, which
00:01:57.640 | is what all of us do, or even a distorted view, he is enough to thrill you and empower
00:02:06.200 | your preaching if you're sensitive to his greatness.
00:02:09.400 | I say that because I don't want to be so naive as to say the only people that can have passion
00:02:14.960 | for Jesus is Calvinists.
00:02:15.960 | That's just not true.
00:02:18.400 | Anyone who sees a part of Jesus and the other part they may have a distorted view of—that's
00:02:25.120 | what I think Armenian does.
00:02:26.600 | It has a distorted view, just like they think I have a distorted view of part of Jesus—there's
00:02:31.480 | enough that they're seeing that they're blown away by.
00:02:35.500 | So that I would be the last person, I hope, to say that a person who doesn't share my
00:02:42.000 | full-blown Calvinistic theology can't have a rich, deep, powerful, amazed, worshipful
00:02:50.000 | relationship with Jesus because he is so great and so glorious, if you just capture a fragment
00:02:56.200 | of his truth, it's enough to blow your brains out.
00:02:59.440 | So I wouldn't want to go the direction of in any way minimizing what God is able to
00:03:06.700 | do through a person with a fragmented or imperfect view of Christ's glory.
00:03:17.300 | To me, it's never the point to say, "If God blesses some non-Calvinists with power
00:03:24.500 | and fruitfulness, and if there are Calvinists who are weak and immature and unkind, then
00:03:29.820 | what's the point of theology?"
00:03:30.820 | I think a lot of people ask that question.
00:03:33.580 | If there are effective Armenians and ineffective Calvinists, who cares about theology?
00:03:38.100 | Well both Roger Olson and I think that's ridiculous.
00:03:40.620 | I mean, that's just a bad way to think because I stand with Roger in saying theology does
00:03:50.180 | make a difference.
00:03:51.860 | One of the things I like about Roger is that he is relentless in believing that theological
00:03:57.460 | affirmation should be met with theological affirmations, not with pragmatic reductionism.
00:04:03.180 | And so I stand watching Roger on the Armenian side pleading for Armenians to wake up and
00:04:10.500 | take theology seriously like he does, and I think that's a worthy calling.
00:04:17.240 | But in answer to your question, is there something more than the absence of some charismatic
00:04:22.720 | spokesman or whatever to make Arminianism more effective in our day?
00:04:28.240 | I think the answer is yes, there is something more fundamental standing in the way of a
00:04:32.840 | great resurgence of Arminianism than the absence of a key voice.
00:04:37.380 | And here's what I think it is.
00:04:39.840 | Arminianism at its essential distinguishing core gives man the final, ultimate, decisive
00:04:47.220 | role in who gets saved.
00:04:48.800 | Let me say that again.
00:04:52.240 | Arminianism at its essential distinguishing core gives man the final, ultimate, decisive
00:05:01.460 | role in who gets saved.
00:05:04.760 | This is not the kind of thing that produces wonder and worship.
00:05:12.160 | This essential distinguishing core is not the kind of truth that blows people away with
00:05:19.160 | wonder and amazement and worship.
00:05:23.240 | So let me be more specific.
00:05:24.440 | Calvinists and Arminians both believe that Jesus is the only objective foundation for
00:05:32.200 | our imputed righteousness and thus our justification.
00:05:36.440 | And we both agree that the only instrument that God uses in connecting this work of Christ
00:05:42.440 | with the undeserving sinner is faith, which is an act of the human soul.
00:05:47.920 | It is.
00:05:48.920 | It's a human act.
00:05:49.920 | It's an act of the human soul.
00:05:51.440 | Faith is.
00:05:52.440 | But when the question is asked, what is the final, ultimate, decisive reason why one person
00:06:00.240 | has that faith or believes and another doesn't, the Calvinist says, "The sovereign grace of
00:06:07.440 | God."
00:06:08.720 | And the Arminian says, "The free will of man," meaning finally decisive power of self-determination.
00:06:17.200 | Now I think that is precisely what stands in the way of a great worship gathering, a
00:06:23.120 | great worship, God-exalting conference that celebrates the distinctives of Arminianism.
00:06:30.440 | At the core, it is about the powers of human self-determination.
00:06:37.360 | There are worthy efforts among Arminians to make this sound glorious, but in the end,
00:06:47.640 | it cannot bear the weight of worship and wonder, I don't think.
00:06:52.800 | Born-again Arminians truly worship God.
00:06:57.160 | But here's the interesting thing.
00:06:59.040 | I think born-again Arminians truly worship God not by focusing on their essential distinguishing
00:07:08.200 | core but on focusing on the great things they share with Calvinists.
00:07:12.840 | So you read Charles, I mean, you sing Charles Wesley, "And can it be, thine eye diffused
00:07:19.120 | a quickening ray, I rose, went forth, and followed thee."
00:07:23.960 | Calvinists love that song because it so gives God the power to reach into our imprisoned
00:07:32.240 | lives and rescue us.
00:07:35.680 | In Arminianism, the core of their theology, I'm talking about that essential distinguishing
00:07:42.280 | core, is based on a philosophical presupposition that man cannot be accountable if God has
00:07:47.800 | final control of his will.
00:07:50.440 | It's not based on the Word of God.
00:07:52.480 | That presupposition is not taught in the Bible.
00:07:54.920 | I'll say it again.
00:07:56.600 | The philosophical presupposition that man cannot be accountable if God has final control
00:08:03.000 | of his will, that presupposition is not taught in the Bible.
00:08:06.880 | That's brought to the Bible by Arminians from outside.
00:08:10.520 | And therefore, I don't expect a great God-centered, biblically rich, exegetically rigorous, robust
00:08:15.960 | worshiping resurgence of Arminianism.
00:08:19.040 | Its distinguishing core is man-centered and biblically unfounded, and therefore, worshipfully
00:08:26.440 | uninspiring.
00:08:27.440 | And let me end by saying, when I say that, I don't mean, please don't hear me mean that
00:08:32.460 | Roger Olson or any other Arminian is not a genuine worshiper of God.
00:08:37.240 | I just mean that when that genuine spirit of worship grips any of us, we're not focusing
00:08:45.960 | on the fact that we have final say in our salvation.
00:08:52.480 | We're focusing on the glory of the grace of God.
00:08:55.640 | They are, and we are.
00:08:57.400 | Which is why I think at its core, there's this stumbling block and this governor that's
00:09:03.400 | going to keep Arminianism from having the kind of resurgence that Calvinism has had.
00:09:09.920 | Very interesting.
00:09:10.920 | Thank you, Pastor John.
00:09:11.920 | And thank you for listening to this podcast.
00:09:12.920 | We'll be back tomorrow with you, the listeners, most common follow-up question from the John
00:09:17.800 | MacArthur and Strangefire podcast.
00:09:19.440 | We'll ask that tomorrow.
00:09:21.320 | Until then, please email your questions to us at AskPastorJohn@DesiringGod.org and visit
00:09:24.920 | us online at DesiringGod.org to find thousands of books, articles, sermons, and other resources
00:09:29.940 | from John Piper, all free of charge, including Pastor John's brand new book, Five Points
00:09:35.640 | Towards a Deeper Experience of God's Grace.
00:09:38.040 | I'm your host, Tony Reinke.
00:09:39.040 | Thanks for listening.
00:09:39.040 | Thanks for listening.
00:09:41.200 | [BLANK_AUDIO]