Is Pain Punishment for My Sin?
00:00:00.000 | This is one of the most important questions we've gotten in the Ask Pastor John inbox,
00:00:08.160 | and it comes from a listener named Jesse.
00:00:10.120 | "Dear Pastor John, in a recent episode," in number 948, "you note that 'God sent
00:00:16.240 | his Son into the world to suffer with us and for us.
00:00:19.000 | This means that if we trust him, none of our suffering is punishment for sin.
00:00:22.720 | Christ bore all of our punishment for sin.'"
00:00:27.040 | But there are very real consequences for sin in this world, both on ourselves and on others,
00:00:32.400 | both for believers and unbelievers alike.
00:00:34.760 | For example, financial hardships follow selfish overspending, or sexually transmitted diseases
00:00:40.220 | follow promiscuity.
00:00:42.480 | How do we see this as discipline and not punishment?
00:00:45.680 | And what really is the difference between the two?
00:00:49.840 | The difference between God's discipline of his children and God's judgment on his enemies
00:00:57.440 | is an infinite difference.
00:01:00.060 | So I hope I can help Jesse feel the difference, because it is so important for his or her
00:01:07.640 | own walk of faith.
00:01:10.640 | So let me begin by defining the difference with a couple of biblical passages, just two,
00:01:18.120 | and they are massively important.
00:01:20.160 | When I speak of God's judgment upon his enemies, I'm referring to the misery that he brings
00:01:28.600 | upon them, not for any purifying or restoring or rehabilitating purposes, but solely to
00:01:39.100 | express his holy justice, his retribution, not restitution.
00:01:46.720 | And it's purely on the basis precisely of what the enemies deserve.
00:01:54.080 | It's not to demonstrate mercy.
00:01:57.140 | It's to demonstrate righteousness and justice.
00:02:00.520 | For example, Revelation 16, 5 and 6, "I heard the angel in charge of the water say, 'Just
00:02:08.400 | are you, O holy one, who is and who was, for you brought these judgments, for they have
00:02:17.800 | shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink.'
00:02:25.400 | It is what they deserve."
00:02:29.020 | So there's the mark of pure retributive justice.
00:02:34.320 | It comes upon the sinner solely because of what they deserve, not because of any good
00:02:40.720 | that the punishment will do them.
00:02:42.980 | You can see it even more clearly in Revelation 19, 1 to 3, because here the judgments are
00:02:49.840 | eternal, not temporary.
00:02:52.320 | So clearly they're not helping at all for a person to become holy.
00:02:56.880 | They are punishing him for not being holy.
00:03:00.560 | Here's what it says.
00:03:01.560 | "After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven
00:03:07.680 | crying, 'Hallelujah!
00:03:10.600 | Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for his judgments are true and just,
00:03:18.920 | for he has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality and
00:03:25.320 | has avenged on her the blood of his servants.'
00:03:30.040 | Once more they cried out, 'Hallelujah!
00:03:33.360 | The smoke of her goes up forever and ever.'"
00:03:39.840 | So this is what I'm talking about when I speak of God's punishment upon sin in contrast
00:03:48.160 | to the discipline of God's children.
00:03:51.860 | It's what the guilty deserve.
00:03:53.760 | It is holy and just retribution, and it is eternal and therefore is not designed for
00:04:03.800 | rehabilitation.
00:04:05.400 | It displays God's justice, and it highlights how valuable mercy is to those who receive
00:04:12.480 | it.
00:04:13.480 | On the other hand, God describes his discipline for his children very differently and extensively
00:04:24.480 | in Hebrews 12, 5 to 11.
00:04:26.880 | Listen how different this is.
00:04:29.160 | Hebrews 12, 5.
00:04:30.680 | "And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
00:04:36.120 | My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by
00:04:44.080 | him."
00:04:45.080 | Notice, this is discipline, not retribution.
00:04:48.480 | This is happening to God's son, whom he loves and means to improve, even though it
00:04:55.640 | involves God's displeasure.
00:04:57.600 | You can see that in the word "reprove," and it goes on.
00:05:01.840 | "For the Lord disciplines the one whom he loves and chastises every son whom he receives."
00:05:10.000 | It is for discipline that you have to endure.
00:05:12.760 | God is treating you as sons, for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
00:05:18.560 | If you are left without discipline in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate
00:05:23.840 | children and not sons.
00:05:26.040 | Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them.
00:05:31.560 | Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
00:05:36.680 | For they disciplined us for a short time, as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines
00:05:42.320 | us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
00:05:49.440 | There's the great difference.
00:05:51.600 | For our good, that we may share his holiness.
00:05:57.440 | It's different from punishment on God's enemies.
00:06:01.560 | Verse 11, "For the moment, all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later
00:06:07.720 | it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who've been trained by it."
00:06:15.440 | So I say again, there is an infinite difference between the painful things that come into
00:06:24.040 | our lives as discipline designed for our good, that we may share God's holiness as loved
00:06:29.600 | children and that terrible experience of pure retribution where we simply bear what we deserve
00:06:39.040 | and experience God justice forever.
00:06:41.440 | It's called hell.
00:06:43.560 | And of course, Jesse, and this may be a stumbling block, Jesse is absolutely right that many
00:06:51.480 | of the painful things in the Christian's life are owing to our own sins.
00:06:58.120 | Some that we committed before we were Christians and some that we've committed since we've
00:07:03.520 | been Christians.
00:07:05.520 | So when Jesse asks, "How do we see this as discipline and not punishment?"
00:07:11.580 | It sounds like he may be making the mistake of thinking that God's disciplinary action
00:07:19.160 | can only be the result of our righteous behavior through persecution maybe, and God's punishment
00:07:27.640 | comes only as a result of unrighteous behavior.
00:07:31.160 | That is not the case.
00:07:34.080 | God's discipline may indeed come from our own sinful behaviors and their consequences
00:07:41.760 | as Christians.
00:07:43.160 | And you can see this in 1 Corinthians 11.30 following.
00:07:47.780 | Some Christians had sinned.
00:07:49.320 | They had really sinned in the way they had treated the Lord's supper.
00:07:53.240 | And here's God's response.
00:07:54.720 | "That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died, died for their abuse of
00:08:04.320 | the Lord's table, their sin, Christian sin.
00:08:07.120 | They died for it."
00:08:09.240 | But he goes on, "But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
00:08:15.640 | But when we are judged by the Lord," meaning ill, weak, death, "when we are judged by the
00:08:24.200 | Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world."
00:08:33.280 | Amazing.
00:08:35.400 | This is a stunning example of God's disciplinary judgment that goes so far as to bring about
00:08:44.500 | the death of his child.
00:08:47.600 | And that death is the disciplinary effect of sin in the child's life because it keeps
00:08:55.000 | him from going to hell.
00:08:57.440 | It says that we may not be condemned along with the world.
00:09:03.240 | That's why he took us out.
00:09:05.400 | Amazing.
00:09:06.400 | So, Jesse, there is an infinite and precious difference between God's retributive justice
00:09:14.080 | in punishment and God's purifying discipline in our pain.
00:09:19.480 | And that difference does not lie in the origin, the human origin of the pain, whether good
00:09:27.700 | or evil.
00:09:29.000 | It lies in the purpose and the design of God in our suffering.
00:09:34.080 | Yes.
00:09:35.080 | Thank you, Pastor John, and thank you for the follow-up question, Jesse.
00:09:38.240 | We really benefit from these types of follow-up questions where you bring new questions about
00:09:43.460 | what we've talked about in the past.
00:09:45.600 | So thank you for sending those in.
00:09:47.000 | You can find our audio feeds in our episode archive, and you can reach us via email and
00:09:51.880 | send us a follow-up question of your own based upon what you've heard, all through our online
00:09:56.160 | home at DesiringGod.org/AskPastorJohn.
00:10:01.400 | Well there are dozens and dozens of English Bible translations to choose from out there.
00:10:06.280 | So should we choose just one, or how many different Bible translations should a Christian
00:10:09.960 | keep in their regular reading diet?
00:10:12.160 | That's a question queued up for discussion on Wednesday with longtime author and pastor
00:10:17.200 | John Piper.
00:10:18.200 | I'm your host, Tony Reinke.
00:10:19.200 | We'll see you then.
00:10:19.560 | [END]
00:10:21.560 | 1. What is the Bible?
00:10:23.560 | 2. What is the Bible?
00:10:25.560 | [BLANK_AUDIO]