Everyday Educator - The Gentle Joy of Assessment
00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)
00:00:02.580 | - Welcome friends to this episode
00:00:06.200 | of the "Everyday Educator" podcast.
00:00:09.000 | I'm your host, Lisa Bailey,
00:00:10.720 | and I'm excited to spend some time with you today
00:00:13.880 | as we encourage one another, learn together,
00:00:17.640 | and ponder the delights and challenges
00:00:20.680 | that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime.
00:00:24.400 | Whether you're just considering
00:00:26.600 | this homeschooling possibility,
00:00:28.800 | or deep into the daily delight of family learning,
00:00:33.040 | I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.
00:00:36.800 | But don't forget,
00:00:38.160 | although this online community is awesome,
00:00:41.760 | you'll find even closer support in a local CC community.
00:00:46.760 | So go to classicalconversations.com
00:00:51.640 | and find a community near you today.
00:00:56.160 | Well listeners, I am excited to be with you today.
00:00:59.720 | I am excited to be with a dear friend of mine
00:01:02.600 | that I've not been able to talk to for a number of years.
00:01:06.880 | Our paths have led us in different directions.
00:01:10.320 | But I have with me today, Rachel Moriarty.
00:01:14.840 | Rachel is a dear friend who is a classical educator,
00:01:19.400 | a fellow homeschooling mom.
00:01:21.240 | And I want Rachel to tell you a little bit
00:01:23.800 | about her family and her current journey.
00:01:27.720 | And then Rachel is going to help us
00:01:32.720 | find the gentle joy in assessment.
00:01:37.880 | We're gonna talk about that,
00:01:39.240 | 'cause I know some of you are rolling your eyes
00:01:41.880 | when you see those three words together
00:01:44.080 | and think it's not gentle, it's not joyous,
00:01:48.240 | it's just assessment.
00:01:50.360 | But Rachel's gonna help us see it in a new way.
00:01:52.360 | Rachel, I'm so glad you could be with me today.
00:01:55.520 | - Thank you very much, Lisa, for having me.
00:01:57.440 | I really appreciate it.
00:01:59.440 | I am very excited to be here
00:02:01.480 | and to share a little bit about the journey
00:02:04.120 | that God has taken me on.
00:02:05.840 | So I am a long time been in CC.
00:02:08.760 | Actually, you and I were in a training years ago.
00:02:11.240 | - Yes, yes.
00:02:12.520 | - We first met maybe like 15 years ago or more.
00:02:15.040 | - Yeah, it was a long time.
00:02:16.840 | - It was a long time ago.
00:02:18.160 | But that's one thing about homeschooling
00:02:19.920 | is that the world of homeschooling is small, isn't it?
00:02:23.680 | And we get to cross paths over and over again.
00:02:25.840 | So I'm excited to be able to cross paths with you today.
00:02:28.960 | So let me introduce myself a little bit.
00:02:31.040 | I have six children
00:02:33.160 | and I have been homeschooling with Classical Conversations
00:02:35.960 | since my oldest was four, she's 21 now.
00:02:38.960 | And I actually always say that CC raised me up as a woman.
00:02:43.960 | They were, it was my second mom
00:02:48.080 | and I really love how God taught me the classical tools
00:02:53.080 | and learning everything that we wanna give to our kids.
00:02:57.720 | I got to learn right alongside my children as they grew.
00:03:01.080 | So we are, well, I say we are, man,
00:03:04.080 | we were a military family,
00:03:06.720 | but my husband just retired from the military.
00:03:10.040 | He played the tuba for the Navy band for over 20 years.
00:03:14.280 | And as of right now,
00:03:15.440 | he is job searching as a project manager.
00:03:18.640 | And we are looking at possibly heading back overseas
00:03:22.600 | to do some missionary work.
00:03:24.080 | But in the meantime,
00:03:25.680 | I am very passionate about empowering
00:03:28.200 | and helping families in their journey.
00:03:31.160 | I would say that so much of my confidence
00:03:36.160 | came out of times when other moms who were seasoned
00:03:39.920 | and ahead of me turned and said,
00:03:42.280 | "Hey, you can do this," right?
00:03:43.840 | That's the hardest part is feeling like you can't do it
00:03:47.480 | and it's a lie from the enemy.
00:03:49.400 | So I'm excited to now turn
00:03:53.920 | and do that for my other moms and dads
00:03:56.880 | who are starting their journey or on their journey
00:04:00.000 | and just need some encouragement
00:04:01.880 | and glad to be able to do that here today
00:04:04.000 | and in the conversation of assessment.
00:04:06.800 | - Yeah, thank you so much, Rachel.
00:04:08.880 | I love that you have taken on the mantle
00:04:13.280 | of encouraging younger moms and dads
00:04:15.880 | who are coming behind where you have walked
00:04:18.920 | in the homeschooling journey because that is huge.
00:04:22.520 | That's very valuable.
00:04:24.040 | You are exactly right.
00:04:25.640 | Most of us, when we first started out,
00:04:28.720 | just needed somebody to say,
00:04:31.680 | "Hey, you can keep doing this.
00:04:33.600 | You can make this and link arms with us
00:04:36.600 | and walk forward beside of us."
00:04:39.960 | And pretty much that's what kept me going
00:04:42.160 | at the beginning is being able to see
00:04:46.720 | that someone else was willing to walk alongside of me
00:04:50.760 | and help me do the things I was a little unsure of
00:04:55.040 | or a little afraid to try or not sure I was doing correctly.
00:05:00.040 | And so that is awesome.
00:05:01.920 | And I thank you, Rachel, for being willing
00:05:07.560 | to give us the benefit of the hard lessons
00:05:12.040 | that you have learned.
00:05:13.520 | I know that for me,
00:05:17.160 | I used to be in the middle of some really hard times
00:05:20.960 | and think, "Well, Lord, I hope you are redeeming this
00:05:23.840 | for someone else's benefit
00:05:25.880 | because this feels really awful where I am."
00:05:29.360 | And it does.
00:05:31.840 | It does redeem it when we can look back and think,
00:05:34.160 | "Yeah, that was hard, but I learned some good lessons
00:05:36.520 | and I'm not gonna keep it to myself
00:05:38.160 | because I wish somebody had told me
00:05:41.200 | or I wish somebody had known to tell me
00:05:43.720 | what could have helped me."
00:05:45.080 | So today, Rachel is going to help us with assessment.
00:05:50.080 | A lot of us, when we come to the spring semester
00:05:55.560 | of homeschooling, that whole idea of assessment gets real.
00:06:02.240 | It's not that we weren't, hopefully,
00:06:05.560 | assessing our children all through the fall
00:06:08.360 | and all through the winter,
00:06:10.040 | but when the end of the "school year"
00:06:14.040 | starts to loom large in our view,
00:06:17.240 | we think, "Oh my word, I've got to know.
00:06:20.160 | I mean, did we accomplish what we were supposed to do?
00:06:22.960 | Do my children know what they need to know?
00:06:26.320 | Have my children changed in the positive ways
00:06:29.600 | that I had goals for in the fall?"
00:06:32.520 | And so assessment becomes a bigger topic.
00:06:35.400 | So as an online community,
00:06:39.280 | we want to explore that a little bit together.
00:06:41.600 | And I will just tell you guys,
00:06:43.000 | we're gonna take about three weeks
00:06:45.040 | to fully unpack this topic.
00:06:47.360 | So you set aside some listening time
00:06:51.320 | over the next three weeks
00:06:53.080 | so that you get the whole load of benefit from Rachel
00:06:59.520 | 'cause we're gonna start out really simple today.
00:07:02.280 | It's gonna be profound and might make a huge difference
00:07:06.680 | in what you and your spouse do in your homeschool,
00:07:11.040 | but it's pretty simple.
00:07:12.120 | Rachel, I want to ask you,
00:07:14.400 | we want to talk about assessment,
00:07:16.160 | and you've been assessing for a long time.
00:07:18.920 | I assess my girls.
00:07:20.320 | My girls are now grown, graduated from CC,
00:07:24.560 | graduated from college, married with children
00:07:27.840 | or children on the way.
00:07:30.120 | So I've done a lot of assessing
00:07:31.720 | and Rachel's done a lot of assessing.
00:07:33.840 | Rachel, what's the usual reaction
00:07:37.120 | to the whole idea of assessment?
00:07:40.840 | What do you expect that people are thinking
00:07:43.880 | as we enter this topic?
00:07:45.800 | - Oh, it's terrifying.
00:07:47.160 | I mean, who wants to be assessed, right?
00:07:51.040 | Like you're gonna tell me what I'm doing wrong.
00:07:53.520 | No, thank you.
00:07:54.360 | I already know all the things that I'm doing wrong.
00:07:57.360 | Why do I need you to tell me, right?
00:07:59.240 | - Yes, it just always seemed like a test
00:08:03.040 | that even if I wasn't doing everything wrong,
00:08:06.720 | the whole point of the quote unquote assessment
00:08:10.280 | was to tell me how I could at least be better.
00:08:12.840 | - Right, well, and I think the negative connotation
00:08:16.560 | is the change in focus, right?
00:08:19.600 | - Yeah.
00:08:20.440 | - Because in a classical setting of assessment,
00:08:24.120 | we are focused on what they have done well,
00:08:28.120 | not on what they did poorly.
00:08:31.160 | Yes, as a parent or as a director in a CC classroom
00:08:36.160 | or as a teacher, you are looking at,
00:08:41.960 | okay, what needs to be corrected?
00:08:44.360 | That's not a part of the equation,
00:08:46.920 | but the focus is actually on what they did well
00:08:50.080 | and what we can celebrate.
00:08:52.240 | And it's real hard for people to consider the idea
00:08:55.160 | of assessment as a celebration,
00:08:58.920 | but that's exactly the paradigm that has to change, right?
00:09:02.920 | Is to go from something that's scary
00:09:06.280 | to something that is considered a celebration.
00:09:10.720 | - I love that.
00:09:11.840 | - I don't know if you, Lisa, are like me,
00:09:13.880 | but in the years past, I had a hard time with celebrating.
00:09:18.240 | Celebrating was not easy for me, you know?
00:09:22.000 | And so I, the Lord has had to do a lot of healing
00:09:25.520 | in my heart and my life so that I could embrace the fact
00:09:30.520 | that He is a God of celebration, a God of feasting.
00:09:35.240 | And He invites us to feast.
00:09:38.040 | And you know, we've heard this metaphor,
00:09:40.400 | how the Lord sets a table for us.
00:09:44.000 | - Yes, yes.
00:09:44.840 | - And He wants us to come not alone, but together.
00:09:48.160 | I just like, I imagine this like really long table
00:09:51.680 | that's like endless, you know,
00:09:53.920 | of all of us next to it or at it.
00:09:57.840 | And it's just filled with all these like good foods to eat,
00:10:00.960 | like foods you can never even imagine eating.
00:10:05.040 | And He said, "Come and feast."
00:10:06.760 | And He wants us to feast at it daily.
00:10:09.600 | And so that's a weird concept to be in correlation
00:10:13.240 | with assessment.
00:10:14.240 | How is assessment like going to a table to feast?
00:10:19.720 | - I can remember as a child,
00:10:22.040 | assessment just seemed to have
00:10:24.360 | some very dark, stern connotation, you know?
00:10:28.840 | And I was not a child that was ever afraid
00:10:31.120 | to get my report card.
00:10:32.360 | I was a good student.
00:10:33.640 | I was a people-pleasing, rule-following, good girl.
00:10:37.120 | And so I was never afraid to get my report card.
00:10:39.880 | But still, assessment always seemed like a very somber,
00:10:44.760 | a little scary thing to do.
00:10:48.980 | I did not associate assessment with celebration,
00:10:53.360 | with balloons and confetti and happy sounds
00:10:57.560 | and high fives, you know?
00:11:00.000 | But I wish I had.
00:11:04.320 | And that's the kind of assessment I would love to provide
00:11:09.320 | for the students, whether they're children or adults,
00:11:14.600 | the students that I have influence upon,
00:11:18.940 | I would like them to see assessment as a time
00:11:21.460 | for us to celebrate together how we have grown.
00:11:26.020 | - Yes, yes.
00:11:27.380 | And that we part is really interesting
00:11:29.540 | because if you think about a celebration or a feast,
00:11:32.220 | it's never alone.
00:11:33.420 | Who wants to go to a party all by themselves, right?
00:11:36.820 | And so we can come together with our students.
00:11:40.900 | And what's really interesting is in the homeschooling realm,
00:11:44.460 | the primary students are your children, right?
00:11:47.660 | So to be able to, like we are practicing celebrating
00:11:51.920 | in terms of like birthdays maybe,
00:11:53.880 | or holidays that we come together,
00:11:55.880 | we just finished Christmas, right?
00:11:57.440 | We're like, okay, this is the space
00:11:59.240 | in which we see celebration.
00:12:01.600 | But to change the culture of our homes for assessment,
00:12:05.480 | to also be a part of this rhythm of celebration
00:12:09.360 | in our lives is a different way of thinking.
00:12:13.160 | And it's a way that I would hope
00:12:14.840 | that others might come to embrace.
00:12:17.640 | I mean, they might be like,
00:12:19.360 | they might be nervous about this idea
00:12:22.020 | simply because it's a celebration, right?
00:12:24.480 | And maybe that's uncomfortable.
00:12:26.320 | - It's super appealing though.
00:12:28.600 | I mean, look at the contrast
00:12:30.640 | between the sober judgmental testing aspect
00:12:35.640 | or a party with hats and streamers and noisemakers.
00:12:42.880 | - Right.
00:12:43.720 | - I would much rather participate in that.
00:12:46.120 | So what if we do want to change our mindset?
00:12:51.120 | That's a great place to start.
00:12:53.200 | And we know that changing our mindset
00:12:56.080 | is the way to change our practice, our habits.
00:13:00.280 | And that changes the culture of our family.
00:13:03.840 | So we do want to change from doom to celebration.
00:13:08.720 | And we want assessment to be a celebratory thing.
00:13:12.620 | But what is assessment?
00:13:15.800 | Let's give people a definition.
00:13:17.600 | What is it that we're talking about?
00:13:19.760 | What really is assessment?
00:13:21.800 | And maybe you want to tell us what it's not
00:13:24.480 | so that we can see more clearly what it is,
00:13:27.920 | but I want to hear what you have to say.
00:13:30.040 | - Oh yeah, okay.
00:13:30.880 | I like starting with what it's not
00:13:32.240 | 'cause we can, that is like a good tangible part
00:13:36.560 | where we can easily see.
00:13:38.240 | Okay, so what it's not
00:13:40.600 | is it's not just an end of the year thing.
00:13:43.420 | I know that we typically think of it
00:13:46.140 | as a thing that happens at an end of something.
00:13:50.660 | But assessment is actually at the beginning,
00:13:53.100 | it's at the middle, it's at the end,
00:13:54.980 | it's throughout the day when you stand up,
00:13:57.020 | when you walk the way with your children, right?
00:13:59.900 | That the Lord refers to in Deuteronomy.
00:14:02.080 | That's actually the verse that kind of drew me
00:14:05.580 | into homeschooling in the first place.
00:14:07.000 | How can I do this all day long, every day?
00:14:10.460 | If I'm not with them, right?
00:14:11.760 | So that was a question that I had to wrestle.
00:14:14.580 | So this assessment's the same way.
00:14:17.320 | I like to think of assessment,
00:14:19.500 | and I know you're gonna maybe balk at this for a minute,
00:14:22.060 | but I like to think of it in terms of Sabbath, right?
00:14:27.060 | Like what does Sabbath and assessment have in common?
00:14:32.560 | - Huh, I've never ever had this thought.
00:14:38.320 | I can't wait to pursue it with you.
00:14:40.320 | - Okay, okay.
00:14:41.160 | So, well, what are some words that come into your mind
00:14:44.760 | when you think of the word Sabbath?
00:14:47.880 | - Rest, set apart, holy, contemplation.
00:14:54.880 | - Good.
00:15:07.160 | - All that kind of stuff.
00:15:08.280 | Just ceasing, stopping, thinking, praying.
00:15:13.280 | - Reflecting.
00:15:15.600 | - Reflecting, yes.
00:15:17.720 | That whole idea of contemplation,
00:15:19.640 | sitting somewhere quiet with my thoughts
00:15:23.320 | so that I can actually hear my thoughts above the,
00:15:27.400 | because there's not the busy jangle of all the voices
00:15:31.520 | and all of the to-dos on my list.
00:15:35.200 | - Good, okay.
00:15:36.320 | So are there different kinds of Sabbath?
00:15:38.920 | - I think that there are.
00:15:40.620 | I think that you can have Sabbath that is just still
00:15:47.240 | where you are, in fact, mostly resting
00:15:56.400 | from activity and movement and busyness.
00:16:00.640 | And I think there is Sabbath
00:16:02.560 | where you're taking a different kind of break.
00:16:06.280 | Where you are maybe still doing something,
00:16:09.720 | but something different from what you usually do
00:16:13.400 | or in a different way,
00:16:15.000 | a more slow, reflective, intentional way.
00:16:20.000 | - Okay, good.
00:16:22.200 | - Yeah.
00:16:23.320 | - Well, and so a lot of times we think of Sabbath
00:16:26.080 | as like a day of the week,
00:16:28.840 | whether it be Saturday or Sunday,
00:16:31.280 | or even a different day.
00:16:32.400 | I've heard of pastors
00:16:33.560 | 'cause they work really hard
00:16:34.640 | on coming in to leading a congregation.
00:16:37.880 | So sometimes they Sabbath a different day of the week,
00:16:39.920 | right?
00:16:40.760 | And then we also have extended Sabbaths,
00:16:44.280 | like summer rest from school in the years.
00:16:47.080 | - Yes, or sabbatical.
00:16:49.720 | I mean, my husband's a pastor
00:16:51.040 | and he had a six month sabbatical several years ago.
00:16:55.000 | And so that was a different kind of, yeah.
00:16:57.640 | - Exactly, an extended kind of Sabbath,
00:17:00.560 | but he's also still doing some of those other Sabbaths
00:17:03.360 | in that extended Sabbath, right?
00:17:05.720 | - Absolutely, absolutely.
00:17:07.520 | - And then even in the daytime where it says,
00:17:09.440 | the Lord says, come to me,
00:17:11.720 | give us our day, our daily bread,
00:17:13.640 | come and sit before me
00:17:15.720 | and hear what I have to say, right?
00:17:18.800 | And so even that is a Sabbath as we just sit before him,
00:17:23.120 | be still and know that I am God,
00:17:25.760 | be still and know that I am with you.
00:17:28.200 | And so that's a form of rest
00:17:31.200 | that comes to our soul when we encounter him.
00:17:34.680 | Well, assessment is very similar
00:17:38.240 | to Sabbath in all of these ways.
00:17:41.000 | It is a time for reflection.
00:17:43.600 | It is a time, there are different kinds of Sabbath,
00:17:46.920 | or excuse me, different kinds of assessment.
00:17:49.960 | There are assessments that happen at the end of a year
00:17:53.920 | or the end of a season,
00:17:56.160 | but there are Sabbaths that are happening every day.
00:17:59.600 | There are assessments periods happening every day
00:18:03.760 | with our students.
00:18:05.800 | So I know maybe you've heard of like a morning meeting,
00:18:09.000 | right?
00:18:09.840 | - Yes, yes.
00:18:10.680 | - What do they call them?
00:18:12.520 | What are some other terms for morning meetings?
00:18:14.760 | That's what we call it.
00:18:15.920 | - Some moms of littles call it morning basket time
00:18:21.640 | or couch time.
00:18:23.200 | Or I remember when my girls were in challenge,
00:18:28.080 | when they were in the upper challenges,
00:18:30.040 | when they were way more independent,
00:18:32.400 | we had morning check-in so that we could say,
00:18:35.360 | okay, how are you positioned for success today?
00:18:38.640 | Let's figure out each other's rhythms
00:18:42.920 | to see if we can have a family rhythm
00:18:45.400 | that will work for everybody today.
00:18:47.640 | - Yes, ooh, that word rhythm, so good.
00:18:50.280 | Definitely falls in line with Sabbathing
00:18:53.920 | and I don't need, I just turned that word into a verb,
00:18:56.320 | I'm not sure I should have.
00:18:57.840 | - It works in our conversation.
00:19:00.960 | - Okay, good.
00:19:01.800 | Well, the same thing with assessing,
00:19:03.080 | there's rhythms to assessing.
00:19:04.920 | So even my morning time with my students, my family,
00:19:09.160 | we usually take that time to just reflect on truth
00:19:13.240 | that God maybe has for us through some scriptures.
00:19:15.440 | We also have some conversation,
00:19:17.280 | but it's also a time in which we're reflecting
00:19:19.440 | on the calendar.
00:19:20.600 | And what do we need to do different today
00:19:23.000 | than we did yesterday?
00:19:24.160 | What do we need to do?
00:19:25.440 | How do we need to improve our schedule
00:19:28.880 | or our communication with one another, right?
00:19:31.040 | These are all forms of assessing in the moment.
00:19:34.520 | - Yes, yes, good.
00:19:36.480 | And that's the kind of assessing
00:19:38.440 | that we all are used to practicing every day in our homes.
00:19:42.800 | Like you assess, do I have enough groceries
00:19:44.960 | to get through the rest of today?
00:19:47.320 | Do we have enough clean clothes
00:19:49.000 | that I don't have to do laundry now?
00:19:51.680 | Do we have all the supplies
00:19:54.000 | for the never ending science fair project that is ongoing?
00:19:58.000 | - Exactly, exactly.
00:20:00.000 | And then we have to troubleshoot what,
00:20:02.240 | okay, this didn't work last time.
00:20:03.960 | How can I do this better?
00:20:06.000 | Right, I mean, my first time I did Memory Master
00:20:08.680 | with my oldest kids, that was a painful process.
00:20:12.160 | But then I had to assess, okay,
00:20:13.880 | how can I make this less painful for my next student
00:20:16.840 | because I see the value in it.
00:20:19.680 | And how can I bring rest to them and myself
00:20:23.160 | through the process, not to mention the daily assessment
00:20:26.600 | of you need to work on this, right?
00:20:29.200 | This is a subject you're struggling in.
00:20:32.160 | - This is your growing edge.
00:20:34.760 | - Exactly, exactly.
00:20:36.240 | But there's a lot more to assessment
00:20:38.480 | than just what grade did I get or what have I done wrong?
00:20:43.200 | Because I remember years ago,
00:20:45.640 | Lee Bortons made the comment that has stuck out to me.
00:20:48.320 | I don't even know when or where she said it,
00:20:49.760 | but she said there were four things to consider
00:20:53.680 | when you have a problem.
00:20:55.120 | One is, do they know the information, right?
00:20:57.960 | Is their grammar down?
00:20:59.480 | The second is, do they understand it?
00:21:01.640 | Are the pieces practiced well enough
00:21:05.000 | for the understanding to have come?
00:21:06.800 | The third would be, can they express it?
00:21:08.520 | Maybe they do know and understand,
00:21:09.960 | but they don't know how to articulate it to you.
00:21:12.360 | Or the fourth thing,
00:21:14.240 | maybe they're having some heart issues,
00:21:16.680 | some character issues, and if that's the case,
00:21:19.400 | put the books down and go deal
00:21:22.160 | with the hearts of your children.
00:21:23.920 | And that has always resonated with me
00:21:27.600 | because assessing where the heart of my student is
00:21:32.600 | is actually probably the number one thing
00:21:36.480 | I'm paying attention to
00:21:37.840 | when I'm encountering assessment with my students.
00:21:41.120 | - And you know what?
00:21:41.960 | When your students are your children,
00:21:45.360 | that's actually the number one concern of most of us.
00:21:49.200 | Most of us started homeschooling our children
00:21:52.360 | because we want them to know how to love the Lord
00:21:56.040 | and love their family and love their community,
00:21:58.760 | their heart issues that we felt like nobody could do
00:22:02.960 | or care about as much as we did.
00:22:05.440 | - Right, right.
00:22:07.000 | And so sometimes though,
00:22:08.520 | even being able to see what a heart issue is
00:22:12.240 | is something that has to be practiced
00:22:13.840 | and discerned by the spirit, right?
00:22:16.040 | - Yeah, yes.
00:22:17.280 | - Is my student ready for whatever it is
00:22:20.240 | that I think they're ready for?
00:22:21.680 | Is this what God has for them
00:22:24.600 | or is this my plan for them?
00:22:26.520 | - Yeah, is it just what I think is next
00:22:29.680 | in the scheme of things, right?
00:22:31.280 | - Yes.
00:22:32.120 | Who is dictating what is next
00:22:35.480 | or where my student should end up, right?
00:22:38.520 | Is it the Holy Spirit or is it a governing body
00:22:42.400 | of a local school department
00:22:44.160 | who's telling me what I have to have or not have?
00:22:46.520 | And I'm not saying those things are not important.
00:22:49.040 | - Right.
00:22:49.880 | - But they need to be questions that I've considered
00:22:53.080 | when I'm thinking about assessing.
00:22:55.800 | - Yeah, it's not a knee jerk.
00:22:57.120 | It's not a knee jerk decision.
00:22:58.920 | It's not, that's what the state says
00:23:01.000 | so that's what I have to do
00:23:02.320 | or that's what everybody else in our community is doing
00:23:05.320 | so that's what I have to do
00:23:06.600 | or even that's what I did with my older child
00:23:09.280 | so that's what I have to do.
00:23:10.680 | - Exactly and we all struggle with that one really easily.
00:23:14.080 | - Oh, yes.
00:23:14.920 | - Comparing, even if it's not to an older child,
00:23:17.560 | perhaps it's to another child in their classroom, right?
00:23:20.000 | - Right, right.
00:23:21.360 | - Oh, my student's not performing the same way.
00:23:23.840 | I remember a good friend of mine,
00:23:26.000 | her name is Kelly Hendricks
00:23:27.960 | and her oldest is the same age as my oldest
00:23:31.680 | and they were, excuse me, not my oldest, my son.
00:23:34.760 | Her son is the same age as my son
00:23:37.120 | and they were in a Besidarian class together as four-year-olds
00:23:41.600 | and they were the only two boys in this Besidarian class.
00:23:44.960 | - Oh, my goodness.
00:23:46.840 | - They could barely talk
00:23:48.680 | and it was like cycle one ancients, you know,
00:23:51.800 | all those big words.
00:23:52.640 | - Yes, all the big words, yes.
00:23:55.080 | - And our little boys couldn't even talk.
00:23:57.760 | These girls were doing circles around them
00:24:00.120 | and I remember feeling like, oh, oh no, my son,
00:24:04.440 | what's wrong with him?
00:24:06.280 | That he can't say all the things that I would compare.
00:24:09.160 | - Yes, because you don't know any better at that stage.
00:24:13.160 | - You don't, you don't.
00:24:14.200 | And I mean, we do intellectually,
00:24:15.960 | but we end up still finding ourselves in that space, right?
00:24:19.920 | So it was really helpful to me because my friend Kelly,
00:24:23.640 | this was her younger children
00:24:26.120 | and so she was a little seasoned
00:24:27.800 | and ahead of me in the game
00:24:29.360 | and she's like, oh, Rachel, it's 'cause they're boys,
00:24:31.400 | they're gonna get it.
00:24:32.520 | She was a real encouragement to me to put away those lies.
00:24:37.520 | But I had to deal with, you know, assessing,
00:24:41.280 | you're assessing whether you think you are or not
00:24:44.480 | and responding out of those assessments.
00:24:47.960 | But the truth is, is it a good assessment
00:24:51.200 | that I've come to a good conclusion?
00:24:53.240 | A truthful conclusion?
00:24:54.880 | Is it something that's blessing my student and myself, right?
00:24:58.360 | So these are questions that I have to ask myself.
00:25:02.720 | If I'm entering into an assessment
00:25:05.960 | and we are feeling feelings like guilt or shame
00:25:10.960 | or condemnation, then that's gonna be a clue to me.
00:25:16.280 | I might not be assessing correctly.
00:25:18.680 | Assessment is supposed to be joyful.
00:25:23.760 | It is a celebration.
00:25:25.400 | And if it doesn't feel like a celebration,
00:25:28.640 | it doesn't mean you're doing something wrong.
00:25:32.480 | It means the assessment part just needs to be changed,
00:25:36.880 | assessed, it's in other words,
00:25:39.080 | maybe how you're viewing the perspective
00:25:42.880 | of how you're viewing needs to be changed,
00:25:45.880 | not the thing you're doing.
00:25:47.560 | Gotcha.
00:25:49.480 | Does that make sense?
00:25:50.720 | Might've been a little confusing there for a moment.
00:25:52.760 | So the way that you are drawing your conclusions,
00:25:57.760 | it might not be the thing that you're doing that is bad.
00:26:01.840 | It might just be the spin that you're putting on it
00:26:06.000 | or the emphasis that you're putting on it or the pressure.
00:26:11.000 | Yeah, gotcha.
00:26:13.080 | Or the lens you're looking out of, right?
00:26:15.280 | Because if we're motivated by fear,
00:26:20.160 | then that fear is going to give us a view
00:26:24.680 | that fear is never joyful.
00:26:27.600 | Right, and it's gonna be very constricting.
00:26:29.960 | If we, whenever I make motions
00:26:33.000 | that are motivated by fear,
00:26:37.200 | I move in a very constricted manner.
00:26:39.600 | Exactly.
00:26:40.840 | And how many parents I've talked to,
00:26:43.600 | they're like, well, I'm considering,
00:26:45.960 | which this is an assessment, they're drawing.
00:26:48.520 | I'm considering taking my kids out of homeschooling
00:26:53.360 | and I just can't do this anymore.
00:26:55.600 | I'm doing a poor job and I don't wanna fail them.
00:26:58.920 | These sentiments are usually,
00:27:02.560 | I mean, they're fear-based sentiments
00:27:05.880 | and we all can identify with those feelings
00:27:09.120 | at one time or another.
00:27:10.600 | I mean, how many of us said,
00:27:11.800 | you want me to take you and put you on a school bus?
00:27:13.480 | 'Cause I'll take you and put you on a school bus, right?
00:27:16.040 | We're having lunch with my friends.
00:27:18.720 | My life could be easier than this.
00:27:20.880 | Right, I know.
00:27:22.000 | When people ask me, they're like,
00:27:23.360 | oh, do you like home?
00:27:24.360 | What's the best thing about homeschooling?
00:27:25.840 | I'm like, the best thing about homeschooling
00:27:27.200 | is I get to be with my kids all day long.
00:27:28.960 | And they're like,
00:27:29.800 | oh, what's the worst thing about homeschooling?
00:27:30.960 | Oh, I have to be with my kids all day long.
00:27:33.680 | (laughing)
00:27:35.800 | I always, and people would say,
00:27:37.520 | oh, isn't that terrible?
00:27:38.520 | I'm like, no, my kids would say the same thing.
00:27:41.080 | The best thing is that we get to be home
00:27:42.800 | with mom and dad all day.
00:27:44.280 | But the worst thing is that we're always home
00:27:46.320 | with mom and dad.
00:27:47.160 | Yes, yes.
00:27:48.000 | It just is a perspective thing.
00:27:50.680 | Exactly, it really is.
00:27:52.280 | And so when I hear a mom saying that,
00:27:54.200 | usually it's like,
00:27:55.040 | that's an invitation to me to encourage them,
00:27:58.640 | to help maybe change the lens they're looking out of.
00:28:02.960 | Right?
00:28:03.800 | And it may be that the Lord would lead somebody
00:28:07.600 | to make different decisions than they're making.
00:28:09.880 | But the thing is,
00:28:10.960 | is we want to not allow our assessments
00:28:14.040 | to be led by fear,
00:28:15.680 | which is never from God, right?
00:28:17.600 | Never from God.
00:28:18.440 | Yes, very good.
00:28:19.280 | That is very good.
00:28:20.480 | So let me ask you this,
00:28:22.960 | because we titled this podcast,
00:28:26.040 | "The Gentle Joy of Assessment,"
00:28:28.600 | and I could feel people all over the world
00:28:30.720 | rolling their eyes.
00:28:32.240 | Can assessment be gentle and joyous?
00:28:36.720 | Yes.
00:28:38.640 | Well, okay.
00:28:39.480 | I absolutely think they can be gentle and joyous.
00:28:42.560 | And I have changed how I interact with my children now.
00:28:46.160 | Ooh, tell me about that.
00:28:48.520 | Yes, yes, yes.
00:28:49.520 | So, okay, let me give you an example.
00:28:52.040 | If I have, I walk into the kitchen,
00:28:55.760 | and this probably can resonate with many other parents.
00:28:58.840 | If you walk into the kitchen
00:28:59.920 | and you had assigned a job to clean the kitchen,
00:29:04.120 | right, to your children.
00:29:05.600 | Right.
00:29:06.440 | And I walk in and it is halfway done,
00:29:09.200 | or maybe not even done at all,
00:29:11.960 | or I can see they did something,
00:29:15.080 | but they're not even in the kitchen anymore.
00:29:17.600 | They're distracted and off doing something else.
00:29:20.360 | My first reaction, my old reaction,
00:29:23.600 | would have been to assess,
00:29:27.040 | where are you getting this kitchen?
00:29:28.960 | You're not cleaning the kitchen.
00:29:30.600 | It's dirty.
00:29:31.440 | You have done a poor job.
00:29:32.760 | You're not listening to me.
00:29:34.400 | I may have even attacked motive.
00:29:36.440 | You don't even care that the kitchen is clean, right?
00:29:41.480 | So that initial response of how I'm walking
00:29:46.480 | into that assessment immediately puts my children
00:29:50.720 | on defensive.
00:29:51.840 | It's not joyful.
00:29:53.040 | It's not gentle.
00:29:54.160 | It's not kind, right?
00:29:55.920 | And so-
00:29:56.760 | Definitely not a celebration.
00:29:58.400 | Not a celebration, exactly, okay?
00:30:01.840 | And so now, with learning these assessment skills
00:30:06.640 | and how to change assessment,
00:30:09.280 | I, and I'm not saying I do it perfect every time, Lisa.
00:30:12.640 | Let me tell you that's the truth.
00:30:13.680 | Right, right.
00:30:15.080 | This is, it really has changed how I interact
00:30:17.960 | with my children, even on a day-to-day basis.
00:30:21.080 | I may come in now and say,
00:30:23.560 | okay, well done on how you wiped the counters,
00:30:28.560 | and I see that you loaded the dishwasher.
00:30:31.000 | I really appreciate that.
00:30:32.240 | You did a good job.
00:30:33.640 | Is there anything else that you did not do
00:30:36.880 | that needed to have been done?
00:30:39.240 | And by walking my student into self-assessment,
00:30:43.520 | I'm able to actually engage and see
00:30:47.440 | where my student is in their heart.
00:30:51.520 | If they go, yeah, I did it all, it's fine.
00:30:54.640 | Okay. Right, right.
00:30:56.320 | Where's the list of where you're,
00:30:58.320 | what all the things you're supposed to do, right?
00:31:00.680 | Can you help me and walk me through each thing that you did?
00:31:04.520 | And I'm able to gauge, is my child's heart
00:31:07.600 | not in a good place, and then that's the place
00:31:09.960 | we need to deal with it?
00:31:11.600 | Or is it that they don't understand, right?
00:31:15.240 | My instructions. Right.
00:31:17.080 | Right, that it means something different to them
00:31:19.640 | than it means to you.
00:31:21.120 | This abuses me. Exactly.
00:31:22.640 | Not quite communicating it to them.
00:31:25.560 | Right, and honestly, it may be that I need to say,
00:31:29.000 | okay, that was poor communication on my part.
00:31:31.240 | I need to do a better job of instructing this area
00:31:35.040 | of what I expected to be done.
00:31:37.280 | Let's try that again.
00:31:38.360 | And let me even actually, I'm gonna show you, right?
00:31:41.320 | And I'm gonna model for them the kind of level of cleaning
00:31:44.960 | I'm hoping to get, right, out of that job.
00:31:48.520 | So when I change the way I have learned how to assess
00:31:53.520 | in the classroom has actually spilled out
00:31:57.240 | and changed the way I parent as well.
00:32:00.680 | I love that.
00:32:01.920 | I love that because I was gonna ask you,
00:32:04.480 | and I may still ask you again in a minute,
00:32:06.200 | what good is learning to assess well for life,
00:32:11.200 | not just for classroom?
00:32:12.760 | So keep going.
00:32:13.800 | Yes. It's great.
00:32:14.640 | Yes, and it actually changes how I interact with everyone,
00:32:18.920 | even my spouse and my marriage, right?
00:32:22.040 | If I, how many of us jump to wrong conclusions,
00:32:26.080 | wrong assessments in the people we love most,
00:32:29.760 | and we do not approach the conversation or questions
00:32:34.280 | with hospitality or consideration
00:32:36.880 | of the other person's feelings.
00:32:38.840 | And I think that's a strategy of the enemy, honestly, Lisa,
00:32:41.680 | is to create division between us,
00:32:43.920 | for us to just look through the wrong lenses
00:32:47.040 | and to jump to quick conclusions
00:32:49.920 | that needed to have taken the time to reflect.
00:32:52.760 | Yes.
00:32:53.920 | And I'm telling you, if you learn how to assess to bless,
00:32:57.680 | you will not only bless your students
00:33:00.920 | and your family and your coworkers,
00:33:03.200 | but you're going to engage in a different,
00:33:05.960 | it actually takes a lot of heat off of you
00:33:08.280 | because the first step of assessment
00:33:10.960 | is walking someone else into self-assessment.
00:33:14.640 | Yes, that's beautiful.
00:33:16.960 | It's key.
00:33:17.800 | It is so key.
00:33:19.320 | Because if I, I mean, if you think about it,
00:33:22.680 | God did this all the time, all the time in scripture.
00:33:26.560 | Jesus did it and God did it.
00:33:29.120 | Jesus is known to be the master teacher of questions, right?
00:33:33.480 | Yes, yes.
00:33:35.840 | That draws you, it draws the listener into the process.
00:33:40.520 | It's not just a lecture, it becomes a conversation.
00:33:44.240 | And there are two of us now thinking about this,
00:33:47.240 | not one of us thinking and talking and one of us listening.
00:33:50.800 | Exactly, and I think one of the big reasons
00:33:53.880 | why Jesus would ask those questions is to say,
00:33:57.240 | "Okay, where's the heart of this person?"
00:33:58.960 | Like, it makes me think about that one parable where,
00:34:02.720 | and you might have to help me
00:34:03.640 | 'cause I'm thinking off the top of my head here,
00:34:05.280 | but there was a guy who, he came and he said,
00:34:08.120 | "What must I do to follow you?"
00:34:10.680 | Right?
00:34:11.560 | Yeah.
00:34:12.400 | And Jesus was like, "Go and sell all of your," you know,
00:34:16.600 | he asked him--
00:34:17.440 | Everything you have and give it to the poor.
00:34:18.720 | Yeah, "Are you able to do that?"
00:34:20.720 | Or, "What's the greatest commandment?"
00:34:22.120 | I can't even remember exactly,
00:34:23.360 | but he asked questions that grew,
00:34:26.240 | he like basically walked this man on a journey of thinking.
00:34:31.000 | And then it got to the point where
00:34:33.600 | they're now both where Jesus wanted him to be.
00:34:36.200 | And he said, "Okay, now go and sell all your stuff."
00:34:40.440 | Right.
00:34:41.280 | And the guy, he had assessed
00:34:43.480 | that there was an idol in his life, right?
00:34:46.400 | But he had, and the command that he gave him,
00:34:50.160 | "Go do this," create, it says that he left very sad.
00:34:54.920 | Right, because I think he realized for the first time,
00:34:58.560 | "Oh, there's something in me that's not ready to give in."
00:35:01.840 | Yes, yes.
00:35:03.920 | And then Jesus was able to, you know,
00:35:06.080 | and there was a time of reflection
00:35:07.520 | that it caused him to have to go and say,
00:35:09.880 | "Am I willing to do that?
00:35:11.600 | "I don't know if I am."
00:35:13.080 | And sometimes it doesn't mean you're evil
00:35:15.680 | 'cause you're not ready to do that.
00:35:17.120 | It's an invitation by God to say,
00:35:19.280 | "Well, let me heal that part in you
00:35:21.400 | "so that you could be ready," right?
00:35:23.920 | Well, and I think it's a way for us to acknowledge
00:35:28.560 | that there's a roadblock.
00:35:30.920 | There's a roadblock in us.
00:35:32.280 | This is why I'm not getting traction on this.
00:35:35.280 | This is why I can't move ahead.
00:35:36.880 | This is why I'm not doing better.
00:35:39.480 | There's this problem, and you asking me that question
00:35:43.560 | forced me to identify that that's the roadblock right there.
00:35:48.280 | Exactly. That's why I'm not better.
00:35:50.120 | Exactly, and my old person would say,
00:35:55.120 | "Oh, you're just being lazy," right?
00:35:58.640 | And I don't really agree that children are lazy.
00:36:01.880 | I believe that fear in our children causes them,
00:36:06.880 | and humans, all humans, not just children,
00:36:09.600 | but fear causes humans to do one of two things.
00:36:13.360 | It causes them to either overwork, right?
00:36:17.200 | Perfectionist, driven by fear to not get something wrong,
00:36:20.600 | so I'm gonna do it all, which I remember, Lisa,
00:36:23.360 | you said I was a good girl who-
00:36:25.520 | Yeah, that was definitely my motivation, yeah.
00:36:28.440 | Okay, so I'm the opposite side,
00:36:31.280 | whereas you were maybe motivated by that.
00:36:34.480 | I would be fearful, and it would paralyze me,
00:36:38.440 | and I wouldn't be able to do things,
00:36:40.560 | and it looked as if I didn't care, but I wasn't doing them,
00:36:43.480 | but I did care.
00:36:45.200 | Right, you just had no idea where to start
00:36:47.960 | because you were so overwhelmed.
00:36:49.800 | Yes, and I really believe that if you have a student
00:36:54.520 | who is struggling with just not,
00:36:57.000 | and I hear this from parents all over the place,
00:37:00.000 | we have an easier time dealing with a kid
00:37:03.680 | who's a perfectionist, who's driven, self-motivated,
00:37:08.000 | but self-condemns constantly, right?
00:37:10.320 | Yes, yes.
00:37:11.640 | We, as parents, that's easier for us
00:37:13.880 | 'cause all the boxes are getting checked,
00:37:16.720 | but the student who's not, who's paralyzed
00:37:19.880 | and not able to do the things they're doing,
00:37:22.160 | but the truth is, both sides of the coins are not good,
00:37:25.480 | right?
00:37:26.320 | Yes, exactly, they both need us in very definite ways.
00:37:31.160 | Exactly, and so we get to assess by asking questions
00:37:35.240 | to help them identify what is the motivating factor
00:37:39.560 | of me feeling like I need to do eight hours of school
00:37:42.600 | in a day or having a hard time accomplishing
00:37:47.200 | a single seminar, right, and my thing.
00:37:50.600 | And so assessment is, first and foremost,
00:37:55.520 | asking and walking our students into self-assessment,
00:37:59.520 | just like God did.
00:38:00.560 | Where were you when I formed the earth, right?
00:38:05.240 | I mean, God did it all throughout the Old Testament
00:38:08.680 | and the New Testament, so we can take that.
00:38:11.440 | I mean, God, He knew the answers, right?
00:38:14.120 | Absolutely, absolutely.
00:38:16.240 | Sometimes, now we're not God, and as parents,
00:38:18.560 | we might actually not know the answer.
00:38:21.240 | Sometimes we think we know the answer,
00:38:23.120 | and then they answer, our children can respond
00:38:25.800 | with different things that surprise us, right?
00:38:27.960 | Yes, yes.
00:38:28.800 | So I feel like by walking, learning how to assess
00:38:32.840 | in this way, you're actually practicing humility
00:38:37.120 | by saying, I think I know, but maybe I don't know,
00:38:41.440 | and I'm gonna ask the questions first,
00:38:43.720 | and I'm gonna walk my student into a space
00:38:47.280 | and make sure they're ready for what I think
00:38:49.840 | they're ready for, but maybe they're not.
00:38:52.240 | It's worth asking the questions.
00:38:54.680 | And asking the question makes you a partner
00:38:59.680 | with your learner, and it is so much better.
00:39:03.720 | We've both already said it.
00:39:04.880 | It is so much better to walk arm in arm with a partner
00:39:09.400 | than to walk along by yourself.
00:39:12.840 | And so you have automatically, by becoming a partner
00:39:17.480 | in learning with your child, by asking them questions,
00:39:21.520 | you have opened their heart to you
00:39:23.960 | in a way it would not have been open otherwise.
00:39:27.320 | Exactly, and you know, that's actually what acidity,
00:39:30.360 | which is the Latin word for assessment,
00:39:32.880 | that's actually what it means.
00:39:34.160 | It means to walk beside.
00:39:36.280 | Yep.
00:39:37.120 | And to walk beside, not above,
00:39:39.680 | where we are lording over them, not below,
00:39:44.040 | where we are cowering under them, but beside them,
00:39:48.280 | where we are partnering with our students,
00:39:51.080 | acknowledging the humanity that is within them,
00:39:54.000 | that they are made in the image of God, just like we are,
00:39:58.200 | and that we have value as the stewards over them.
00:40:02.720 | How many times do we make the comments, Lisa?
00:40:05.080 | These are my children.
00:40:06.760 | Yes.
00:40:07.600 | And I have been convicted, Lord, these are not my children.
00:40:09.920 | These are your children.
00:40:11.800 | Yes.
00:40:12.880 | These belong to my master,
00:40:15.840 | and I have been given the great responsibility.
00:40:18.840 | Thankfully, it is tied to love, right?
00:40:21.720 | And it's only because of His Spirit we can even love.
00:40:25.240 | But it's tied to, okay, thank you, Lord,
00:40:28.240 | I love these people, and I want to steward them well for you.
00:40:33.240 | And that means I want to assess well.
00:40:39.040 | I want to assess in a way that honors you, Lord,
00:40:42.600 | that brings joy, and that honors the person in front of me.
00:40:47.600 | And I would say that assessing with joy
00:40:52.560 | means to honor the human in front of you.
00:40:57.040 | And to honor someone, like when we say phrases
00:40:59.560 | like in a courtroom, right?
00:41:03.320 | We say your honor to the judge.
00:41:05.320 | Yes.
00:41:06.440 | We would never say things to a literal judge in a courtroom
00:41:11.440 | the way we say things to our own children.
00:41:15.280 | You're right.
00:41:16.240 | We would never do that, and we're all guilty of it,
00:41:18.600 | myself for sure included, right?
00:41:22.240 | And so by learning how to practice this assessment,
00:41:27.240 | you're practicing way bigger things
00:41:32.360 | than what do I need to do to get this schoolwork done,
00:41:37.120 | or finish the school year,
00:41:38.800 | or finish their homeschool career.
00:41:41.600 | Yeah, absolutely.
00:41:43.400 | Okay, listeners, I have good news and bad news, okay?
00:41:47.720 | The bad news is we've run out of time for today.
00:41:51.400 | The good news is our very next session
00:41:54.920 | with Rachel will be in one week,
00:41:57.120 | and we are gonna talk about how do we assess
00:42:01.320 | now that the Lord has given us this new vision,
00:42:06.000 | perhaps, of assessment as celebration,
00:42:10.880 | and the purpose of assessment
00:42:14.000 | to draw, to honor the human in front of you,
00:42:17.760 | and to draw yourself and your student,
00:42:21.080 | your child into partnership
00:42:23.600 | as you help them take up the reins of self-assessment.
00:42:28.600 | And as we have really become perhaps convicted
00:42:33.080 | that our assessment needs to change
00:42:35.600 | in order to become gentle, and joyful,
00:42:39.200 | and spiritually edifying to the whole family,
00:42:42.880 | how are we gonna do this?
00:42:45.520 | Rachel is gonna walk us through
00:42:47.600 | how do we assess in our homeschool next time.
00:42:52.600 | And Rachel, I wanna also,
00:42:56.600 | I want you to speak for a minute,
00:42:58.400 | because listeners, Rachel has a conference
00:43:03.160 | that she leads that I'd love for her to tell you about,
00:43:06.240 | because if you want to hear more about this,
00:43:09.800 | and you want an avenue perhaps to practice
00:43:13.600 | some of these tools of assessing,
00:43:16.320 | Rachel might have just the thing you need.
00:43:18.800 | Rachel, tell us about your conference.
00:43:21.080 | - Oh, thank you, Lisa, yes.
00:43:23.000 | Please join me for the next
00:43:25.120 | Tools for Transcripts online conference.
00:43:28.000 | It's gonna be February 13th, 18th, and 20th
00:43:30.360 | at 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.
00:43:33.320 | It is presented by Classical Tools for Change,
00:43:36.160 | and it's taught by myself.
00:43:38.000 | And we're gonna delve into the depths of assessment,
00:43:40.280 | exploring the answers to questions like,
00:43:43.120 | what is the nature of assessment?
00:43:45.240 | Who is being assessed?
00:43:46.840 | What is being assessed?
00:43:48.720 | Who are the assessors?
00:43:50.440 | What is the purpose of assessment?
00:43:52.720 | And what are some forms of assessment?
00:43:55.240 | It is a three-part conference
00:43:57.440 | where we were gonna converse through ideas in part one,
00:44:00.760 | we're gonna practice the skills of assessment in part two,
00:44:04.120 | and then we're gonna walk through the logistics
00:44:05.720 | of crafting a transcript in part three.
00:44:08.520 | So you can find more information
00:44:10.160 | at www.classicaltoolsforchange.com,
00:44:14.000 | and that's for the number four.
00:44:16.360 | Again, the dates are February 13th, 18th, and 20th,
00:44:19.440 | but I do add new dates every month.
00:44:22.480 | So check our website for those dates as they come.
00:44:26.600 | And I appreciate you, Lisa,
00:44:28.560 | just giving me this opportunity to come
00:44:30.520 | and discuss some of my favorite topics.
00:44:33.400 | - Well, I have loved reconnecting,
00:44:35.720 | but I've really loved thinking about this whole idea
00:44:39.440 | of the connection between Sabbath and assessment
00:44:43.320 | and how assessment can be gentle and joyful
00:44:48.320 | and also honoring to the people with whom we practice it.
00:44:53.280 | So thank you, Rachel.
00:44:54.720 | Listeners, I hope that this has given you enough
00:44:58.120 | to think about that you'll be busy until next week
00:45:01.720 | when we'll see you again.
00:45:03.200 | All right, bye-bye, you guys.
00:45:05.520 | (gentle music)
00:45:08.100 | you
00:45:10.160 | you