Everyday Educator - CC Plus: Is It for Us?
00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)
00:00:02.580 | - Welcome friends to this episode
00:00:06.320 | of the "Everyday Educator" podcast.
00:00:08.960 | I'm your host, Lisa Bailey,
00:00:10.720 | and I'm excited to spend some time with you today
00:00:14.000 | as we encourage one another, learn together,
00:00:17.200 | and ponder the delights and challenges
00:00:20.000 | that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime.
00:00:23.520 | Whether you're just considering
00:00:25.680 | this homeschooling possibility,
00:00:27.880 | or deep into the daily delight of family learning,
00:00:32.180 | I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.
00:00:36.000 | But don't forget, although this online community is awesome,
00:00:40.860 | you'll find even closer support in a local CC community.
00:00:45.860 | So go to classicalconversations.com
00:00:50.760 | and find a community near you today.
00:00:55.400 | Well, listeners, I have a treat for you today.
00:00:58.340 | My guest is someone very well-versed
00:01:03.560 | in all things classical conversations
00:01:06.800 | from a young age through his now working adulthood.
00:01:11.760 | We are gonna talk today with Daniel Shirley,
00:01:14.760 | and we are going to be exploring CC+.
00:01:19.680 | I know as many of our families look toward the fall,
00:01:23.880 | believe it or not, summer is more than halfway over.
00:01:27.520 | And as we focus on the academic offerings for the fall
00:01:31.960 | and our family's planning,
00:01:33.760 | many of you with students going into high school
00:01:38.100 | or well into their high school years
00:01:40.440 | have questions about what else is available
00:01:45.240 | academically for your student.
00:01:47.440 | And so we have with us today, Daniel Shirley,
00:01:51.480 | who is the Classical Conversations,
00:01:54.000 | the CC+ Undergraduate Program Manager.
00:01:58.040 | Daniel, thanks for joining me today.
00:02:01.120 | - Yeah, thanks for having me, Lisa.
00:02:02.560 | Glad to be back.
00:02:03.880 | - I am excited about what you're gonna share today.
00:02:08.280 | I will be really honest.
00:02:10.160 | When I first got involved with Classical Conversations,
00:02:14.040 | when my family joined, my girls were young.
00:02:17.340 | I was focused like most young moms and dads
00:02:21.240 | on making it through each day and doing the very best
00:02:25.960 | and providing a wide range of experiences for my children.
00:02:30.960 | And I occasionally looked down the road
00:02:34.920 | to the high school years,
00:02:36.120 | and I had people ask the age old question,
00:02:39.240 | but what will you do when they get to high school?
00:02:42.240 | And I had some answers and some of them were glib
00:02:45.720 | and some of them were well thought out,
00:02:48.560 | but very few of them included dual enrollment.
00:02:52.680 | At that point, I didn't even know what that was probably.
00:02:56.560 | And I have to say it was a long time ago
00:03:00.320 | when I was in that position.
00:03:02.040 | So CC+ did not exist.
00:03:04.960 | And so I am super glad for you to come on
00:03:08.040 | and share with all of us this resource new to some,
00:03:13.040 | but it's been around long enough to be well-established.
00:03:16.560 | This resource, this program
00:03:18.920 | that families can take advantage of.
00:03:22.120 | I wanna start though with your experience
00:03:25.480 | of the CC Challenge Program,
00:03:27.260 | because that's where most of us are coming from,
00:03:30.480 | CC programs that we already understand.
00:03:34.680 | And I know, Daniel, you know the CC Challenge Program
00:03:39.680 | both from the student perspective
00:03:43.160 | and the director/tutor perspective.
00:03:47.120 | Now I'm guessing, actually I know,
00:03:49.720 | that the challenge program was chosen for you.
00:03:53.280 | You didn't exactly choose it.
00:03:55.580 | I know your mom and I know your dad
00:04:00.360 | and I know that they really believed this was the vehicle
00:04:04.680 | for the best possible education for you
00:04:07.880 | and for your siblings.
00:04:09.200 | But let me ask you this,
00:04:10.560 | what did you initially like about the challenge program?
00:04:14.800 | Yeah, I think one of my favorite things
00:04:18.080 | about the challenge program,
00:04:19.680 | especially in the old days when things were still forming,
00:04:23.720 | it really was this heightened sense of,
00:04:26.240 | I would say like discipline equals freedom.
00:04:29.460 | I think I told the story on the last podcast
00:04:34.360 | about when I transitioned from the foundations program
00:04:37.400 | into challenge A and I had that syllabus for the first time,
00:04:42.400 | challenge guide, and it was my birthday,
00:04:45.280 | but I had an assignment due
00:04:46.840 | and I couldn't take my birthday off.
00:04:49.200 | You know, there was this like sense of responsibility
00:04:52.440 | and of completing the work
00:04:54.240 | that I didn't exactly have quite as fleshed out
00:04:57.760 | in the foundations program.
00:04:59.640 | And so moving into the challenge program,
00:05:02.160 | that was really the thing, looking back on it,
00:05:05.160 | that I found very helpful to understand.
00:05:10.160 | If I moved through the work,
00:05:11.680 | if I completed what was necessary
00:05:14.300 | and brought the required artifacts to the community day,
00:05:18.600 | I was free in some sense.
00:05:21.320 | As soon as I completed those steps,
00:05:23.920 | I then had my time to do with what I would like.
00:05:27.080 | And I feel like that's a principle
00:05:29.260 | that carries pretty well into the adult world, right?
00:05:33.320 | Although the responsibility has become more numerous, so.
00:05:37.560 | - I love that.
00:05:38.520 | I love that, Daniel, that what you're saying is,
00:05:41.520 | I mean, and it makes sense from the perspective
00:05:44.800 | of a young student,
00:05:47.600 | the academics were maybe not what you loved the most,
00:05:51.040 | but I love that you chose to show us
00:05:54.080 | a life skill, a life perspective.
00:05:59.040 | The challenge program teaches us more than how to be smart
00:06:02.840 | and how to learn even, learn in an academic sense.
00:06:07.840 | I like that you reminded us
00:06:13.440 | that part of what our students learn
00:06:15.360 | is how to manage themselves.
00:06:17.680 | And you know, you're right.
00:06:19.280 | It is a great awakening for a student to recognize
00:06:23.560 | that they are pulling the strings,
00:06:26.080 | that they can dilly-dally around and waste the day
00:06:30.200 | and then have to miss something that was planned for them
00:06:35.160 | or alongside of them because they have to get the work done
00:06:38.760 | and they chose to use their free time in a frivolous way.
00:06:43.400 | And so I love that what you really appreciated
00:06:47.880 | was learning about the power you had over yourself
00:06:52.880 | and your own schedule, that's cool.
00:06:57.440 | - Yeah, absolutely.
00:06:58.800 | And you know, the thing that kind of,
00:07:01.840 | it goes hand in hand with this idea of learning
00:07:04.240 | how to learn a skill that's being trained
00:07:07.480 | inside the challenge program and curriculum.
00:07:10.120 | 'Cause you find that, let's say the more efficient
00:07:13.480 | you can be in your discipline,
00:07:15.720 | the more freedom you have on the other end of that
00:07:18.840 | and the more productive that freedom can be.
00:07:21.560 | Again, because that discipline doesn't just kind of stop,
00:07:24.800 | it continues to permeate your attitude,
00:07:28.800 | not just toward your academics,
00:07:30.640 | but also toward hobbies or other interests
00:07:34.200 | and relationships, friendship, you know.
00:07:37.520 | Learning how to learn is not just constrained
00:07:41.640 | to that academic realm, which all of your listeners know.
00:07:45.000 | - Absolutely, absolutely.
00:07:47.640 | It's a great reminder that as homeschoolers
00:07:51.320 | and as classical Christian homeschoolers,
00:07:54.080 | we are developing our students' character
00:07:57.400 | alongside of any academic pursuit
00:08:01.120 | that we go at as a family.
00:08:03.160 | We are developing character.
00:08:04.560 | And what you're talking about is a character issue,
00:08:07.360 | learning how to manage your freedom.
00:08:09.400 | That's really great.
00:08:11.200 | So was there anything, and maybe there wasn't,
00:08:14.200 | was there anything that didn't fit you as well
00:08:18.040 | in the challenge program, at least initially?
00:08:20.880 | - That's a good question too.
00:08:23.880 | I think that because it was so early on when I used to,
00:08:28.880 | 'cause I mean, I think, you know,
00:08:31.680 | it's been almost, what, like 18 years since Challenger,
00:08:36.200 | something like that.
00:08:37.040 | - Yeah, that's a scary thought, Daniel.
00:08:39.640 | - It's been a minute.
00:08:40.560 | And so I think pedagogically or, you know,
00:08:45.320 | the mode of the teacher or the tutor
00:08:48.360 | coming alongside the students in seminar
00:08:51.080 | or in the community day was still in formation.
00:08:54.880 | And so looking back on it,
00:08:56.560 | I do see very much how there were instances,
00:09:00.040 | especially as I moved more into high school,
00:09:02.960 | where even in the CC community day,
00:09:04.920 | we would still do, you know, exams or tests.
00:09:08.880 | - Right, right, yeah.
00:09:10.720 | - That would then be handed in and graded
00:09:13.800 | and then handed back to us.
00:09:15.240 | And it would be, you know, you've got an 87
00:09:17.720 | or you've got a 76. - Right.
00:09:19.960 | - So there was still some pedagogical formation
00:09:22.560 | that I think is interesting
00:09:25.200 | based on the way that, you know,
00:09:26.680 | CC has kind of come more into its footing with,
00:09:31.680 | oh, we don't really believe in the quantitative tests
00:09:35.840 | for things like human studies, liberal arts studies.
00:09:39.600 | - Right, right.
00:09:40.440 | - And there's other artifacts that we can engage with
00:09:43.840 | and see from the students,
00:09:46.320 | like their ability to lead the seminar,
00:09:48.200 | their ability to bring good questions in
00:09:51.080 | and to show mastery of the content
00:09:53.920 | in ways that are not, you know,
00:09:55.680 | maybe quantitative in their work.
00:09:58.040 | - Yeah.
00:09:58.880 | I love that you brought that out
00:10:01.520 | because it gives me the opportunity to remind parents,
00:10:06.440 | hey, y'all, we are still learning
00:10:08.720 | how to do this big, hairy, audacious task too.
00:10:13.560 | And so 20 years ago,
00:10:16.640 | okay, that sort of freaks me out too, Daniel,
00:10:18.960 | 20 years ago is when my family first found out
00:10:23.120 | about classical conversations.
00:10:25.160 | And the educator, the homeschooler that I was then
00:10:30.160 | is a far cry from the homeschooler that I became
00:10:35.000 | as I learned, not just academically along with my girls,
00:10:40.000 | but like you were saying,
00:10:41.640 | as I learned the better pedagogy
00:10:44.960 | of being a classical educator.
00:10:47.840 | So mom and dad, don't despair.
00:10:51.200 | The educator that you are now
00:10:54.840 | is not the only educator you will always be.
00:10:58.040 | And you will grow in your understanding
00:11:01.960 | of how to lead your homeschool more classically.
00:11:06.560 | You're gonna grow along with your student.
00:11:09.120 | And that is the beauty of this journey
00:11:11.640 | that we have together.
00:11:13.520 | Let me ask you this, Daniel,
00:11:14.560 | because I also know that you have been,
00:11:16.840 | and I'm not sure if you are still,
00:11:18.960 | a challenge director yourself.
00:11:22.000 | So what drew you into becoming a challenge director?
00:11:26.600 | Did you enjoy that whole idea
00:11:29.160 | of partnering with parents and students?
00:11:32.080 | - Yeah, absolutely.
00:11:34.440 | That's what drew me into the,
00:11:37.720 | it was actually a kind of a legacy thing.
00:11:40.400 | My mom was tutoring challenge four.
00:11:44.080 | Heather Shirley was tutoring challenge four
00:11:46.080 | at our local community.
00:11:47.760 | And this was when she was still quite busy.
00:11:52.200 | And so she ended up having to kind of step down
00:11:54.720 | from a long-term challenge four position
00:11:58.160 | in our local community.
00:12:00.000 | And I had subbed for her a handful of times
00:12:03.440 | as I was getting settled in.
00:12:05.560 | And she asked me,
00:12:07.040 | "Are you interested in moving into the tutoring space?"
00:12:09.920 | And I was like, "Ooh, I think this could be a lot of fun."
00:12:13.960 | And I was also curious, almost experimentally,
00:12:16.640 | just to see what would it be like
00:12:19.520 | to be a challenge four tutor
00:12:20.880 | that was not a homeschool mom,
00:12:23.080 | or that wasn't like a parent of a student in community.
00:12:26.200 | Having been through the process
00:12:29.200 | of graduating from challenge four,
00:12:32.120 | maybe more recently, in your quotes,
00:12:34.640 | than some of the other tutors,
00:12:37.320 | what could I do to help prepare the students
00:12:39.680 | to move into the next stage of their education?
00:12:43.040 | If it was gonna be college,
00:12:44.400 | or if they were moving into their family businesses
00:12:47.640 | to work there, or doing trades, or something like that.
00:12:50.640 | And then the other thing that I was interested in primarily
00:12:55.680 | was I'm an English kind of major.
00:12:58.040 | I was interested in what would it look like
00:13:00.840 | to kind of reframe the art of writing
00:13:04.600 | for these challenge four students,
00:13:06.880 | especially with the senior thesis process,
00:13:10.160 | which was not in the challenge program
00:13:11.800 | when I was moving through it.
00:13:12.960 | - Right, exactly.
00:13:14.720 | - I was like, maybe if I could direct,
00:13:16.560 | and I can participate in this thesis process a little bit
00:13:21.560 | that I didn't get to have.
00:13:23.560 | But it was like essays,
00:13:28.000 | often students will see essays as assignments
00:13:30.600 | governed by something like a quantitative metric,
00:13:33.920 | like a word count.
00:13:35.360 | - Right.
00:13:36.200 | - And if they reach that word count,
00:13:37.680 | they complete the essay.
00:13:39.000 | - And they could be done.
00:13:40.480 | - And they could be done, right?
00:13:42.800 | I was guilty of this as a student as well.
00:13:44.680 | - Sure.
00:13:46.160 | - But the more that I thought about it,
00:13:49.160 | I was like, I'm not sure that's why we write essays.
00:13:51.760 | And so I wanted to get back into that tutoring space
00:13:55.840 | and play with this pedagogy,
00:13:58.880 | this more classical pedagogy of writing and why we write.
00:14:03.880 | And while I was kind of digging down that rabbit hole,
00:14:09.000 | I learned that the word essay is a French word.
00:14:12.200 | I don't know, do you know what it means, Lisa,
00:14:13.960 | the word essay?
00:14:16.000 | - It's to find out, isn't it?
00:14:17.560 | To strike out, to ferry forth.
00:14:21.480 | - Right, yeah.
00:14:22.400 | And it's like, it just means to get out there and to try.
00:14:27.040 | And so, especially with the thesis,
00:14:30.120 | I found it very encouraging and very satisfying.
00:14:33.560 | And I think my students did too.
00:14:35.280 | We could probably ask one of them at some point,
00:14:38.680 | but we'll see.
00:14:39.520 | But the aspect of,
00:14:44.200 | don't waste your time writing about something
00:14:47.480 | that you don't care about.
00:14:49.320 | And the theme of challenge four being leadership,
00:14:52.440 | it's where you're leading your own education at this point.
00:14:55.280 | That's what you're getting ready to move out into.
00:14:57.280 | There's gonna be less hand-holding
00:14:59.840 | as you move into the next chapter.
00:15:02.760 | And so, you have to find what you care about genuinely.
00:15:07.040 | And then that question that's kind of on the fringe
00:15:11.240 | of your knowledge that you explore
00:15:14.480 | through slow motion thinking,
00:15:16.480 | which is what I think writing is,
00:15:18.120 | that was something I was just super excited
00:15:21.760 | to bring to the students and encourage them in.
00:15:26.200 | And so, that, I don't know,
00:15:28.240 | is one particular thing that drew me in,
00:15:31.120 | but then also just participating
00:15:33.600 | in this kind of legacy of home education, different flavor.
00:15:38.600 | - That is great.
00:15:42.120 | What a good, I'm making myself a note now
00:15:45.920 | to have you back in the fall to talk about writing essays
00:15:50.960 | and how to light the fire in students.
00:15:54.320 | Because I think that you struck something really key,
00:15:59.240 | Daniel, if we can help students understand
00:16:03.480 | that they are writing not just to satisfy a prompt
00:16:08.480 | or a word count, but what we need them to do
00:16:12.400 | is somehow connect with this piece of literature
00:16:16.160 | or this point in history or this thing
00:16:18.900 | that they're supposed to write about
00:16:20.520 | and find what lights their fire.
00:16:23.720 | I love that.
00:16:25.720 | So, I'm gonna be knocking on your door again,
00:16:29.200 | is what I'm saying.
00:16:30.240 | So, I want you to think, for just a minute,
00:16:33.360 | I want you to think about students that you have known,
00:16:36.720 | because as a challenge director,
00:16:38.760 | you have interacted with a lot of students
00:16:41.040 | and a lot of families.
00:16:43.000 | And as the CC+ undergrad program director,
00:16:46.480 | you've interacted with a lot of families.
00:16:49.640 | Think about students and families that you've known,
00:16:53.040 | that you've talked to,
00:16:54.120 | maybe who were just considering the challenge program.
00:16:57.840 | As challenge directors, we've all had people contact us
00:17:00.920 | and say, "Well, I'm sort of interested,
00:17:03.440 | "but I don't really know."
00:17:05.040 | What drew those people to challenge programs?
00:17:10.040 | And also, what gave them pause
00:17:12.840 | or made them hesitate to join?
00:17:16.000 | Yeah, this is a really good question.
00:17:19.560 | I think it's worth thinking about a good bit.
00:17:22.640 | And there's at least two things that I find
00:17:24.840 | that draw people in.
00:17:26.680 | And they're pretty fascinating,
00:17:28.200 | because I feel like mostly, it's not all,
00:17:31.680 | but a lot of students or families get drawn
00:17:34.280 | to something like CC or to CC,
00:17:37.240 | based on negatives out in the other options, right?
00:17:42.240 | So, I would say one of the primary reasons
00:17:46.240 | that families will reach out and inquire.
00:17:49.440 | Into the challenge program is just the environment
00:17:52.840 | of public education,
00:17:54.320 | being something that they see is hostile to the values
00:17:58.200 | that they hold and their family has.
00:18:01.400 | So, that's a big one.
00:18:02.920 | Yep, yep, yep.
00:18:04.520 | The other one would be possibly like the excessive cost
00:18:08.360 | of private education options.
00:18:10.480 | And so, those are like the negative reasons.
00:18:13.600 | And then, so I'd say that probably makes up maybe 75 to 80%
00:18:17.440 | of the students that I've talked to.
00:18:19.320 | All right.
00:18:20.160 | Then the others are, they see the books that we read,
00:18:25.160 | and they just get super excited.
00:18:27.280 | Yep, yep.
00:18:29.800 | Those are fun.
00:18:31.160 | Those are quite fun.
00:18:32.720 | But the others, the others are also good.
00:18:34.960 | It's just maybe that sometimes they come into the program
00:18:39.760 | based on a criticism of something else,
00:18:42.280 | rather than a desire or a fascination
00:18:45.880 | with what it is that we're up to.
00:18:47.320 | Yeah, you're right, you're right.
00:18:49.080 | People are running away from something more often
00:18:52.880 | than they're running to something at times, it seems like.
00:18:56.920 | So, what do you think, what gave them pause?
00:19:00.960 | What made some of the families you interacted with
00:19:04.200 | hesitate to join a challenge community?
00:19:07.920 | Yeah, I think this ties back
00:19:09.920 | with this discipline equaling freedom thing.
00:19:12.640 | Once you start understanding, maybe you go to a practicum
00:19:18.680 | or you start investigating the challenge guide
00:19:22.360 | for the coming year, and then you recognize
00:19:25.240 | that really you're only meeting one day a week
00:19:27.520 | with the community, I think that families
00:19:30.280 | start to recognize that the responsibility
00:19:34.120 | of the program gets kind of, you know,
00:19:37.720 | like it's supported by the community and by the tutor,
00:19:41.200 | but it's sat squarely in the family's lap.
00:19:46.320 | And that particularly gets intimidating
00:19:48.480 | for the high school years.
00:19:50.800 | Students move into that and they start realizing,
00:19:52.920 | oh, okay, cool, this is gonna be a lot of work,
00:19:56.960 | I'm gonna have to be more disciplined than I am already.
00:20:00.000 | And, you know, parents have to be comfortable
00:20:03.760 | administrating their own homeschool,
00:20:05.440 | which I feel like if you're not maybe in that camp
00:20:10.440 | of like unschooling, you know, kind of,
00:20:15.600 | you trust institutions still,
00:20:19.040 | then it can be maybe a little bit intimidating
00:20:21.560 | to recognize that you're the principal
00:20:23.160 | and the administrator of your homeschool,
00:20:25.400 | putting that seal on a transcript, so.
00:20:27.440 | - Yes, and, you know, there are still lots of us
00:20:31.800 | who look at some of the subjects in the challenge years,
00:20:36.400 | physics, I'm looking at you,
00:20:38.640 | and calculus, I'm staring you down.
00:20:42.280 | And they are, or Daniel, even the literature
00:20:47.280 | for parents who say, I don't really,
00:20:50.400 | I've never been a good writer,
00:20:52.640 | how am I supposed to assess my students' writing?
00:20:55.960 | And if I think it's not quite up to par,
00:20:58.520 | I don't know how to fix it.
00:21:00.600 | And so I think that that plays into it too,
00:21:03.520 | just that we feel, well, we fear
00:21:08.160 | that we can't give our children the best education,
00:21:13.040 | what we really want for them,
00:21:14.880 | because we feel a lack within ourselves as parents.
00:21:18.400 | So I think that that can happen too.
00:21:21.760 | - Yeah.
00:21:23.200 | - I've also, and I wonder if this has been your experience,
00:21:26.040 | I've also encountered families that hesitate
00:21:30.240 | to join a CC community because they've been enticed
00:21:35.200 | by the idea of dual enrollment at community colleges.
00:21:40.160 | - Oh, for sure, yeah.
00:21:42.040 | And so before we get into that,
00:21:44.480 | I wanna take a step back to parents being intimidated
00:21:48.120 | by the literature real quick.
00:21:49.640 | - Yeah.
00:21:50.480 | - It's funny, there's a introduction that C.S. Lewis writes
00:21:56.120 | to "On the Incarnation" by Athanasius, I believe.
00:22:00.840 | - Uh-huh, uh-huh.
00:22:01.960 | - And it's a really good essay,
00:22:04.000 | so I encourage all the listeners of the audience
00:22:06.280 | to go read that essay if they haven't read it before.
00:22:09.640 | There's some iconic C.S. Lewis quotes
00:22:11.440 | that come out of that essay.
00:22:13.160 | But one of the things that he says
00:22:14.960 | is that we should read old books,
00:22:18.240 | and that if we decide and actually just kind of step
00:22:21.880 | across that threshold and enter into the old books,
00:22:25.440 | the quote-unquote primary sources, right?
00:22:28.000 | Sources that are not anyone writing about anything else.
00:22:31.440 | So I'm not reading a modern commentary on the Iliad.
00:22:35.600 | - Right, right.
00:22:36.440 | - Instead I'm going to read the Iliad.
00:22:38.440 | He says that when we do that,
00:22:40.120 | we often find that the original text
00:22:43.480 | is much more approachable than the commentaries
00:22:46.840 | that are written about that text.
00:22:49.080 | And so if we've, in our modern sentiment,
00:22:52.280 | read a modern piece of material about an old book,
00:22:57.000 | we come away and we're like,
00:22:58.560 | wow, that old book is very complicated.
00:23:01.680 | And I think people would be refreshingly,
00:23:04.560 | or would be refreshed to actually just step
00:23:07.840 | into some of those old texts like Lewis suggests that we do
00:23:11.200 | and recognize that there may be more hospitable
00:23:13.920 | than the modern commentaries, so.
00:23:16.400 | - You know what?
00:23:17.240 | That is very wise counsel.
00:23:19.160 | I think a lot of us are turned off
00:23:22.520 | to what we might find lovely
00:23:26.840 | and approachable by the reputation
00:23:31.160 | that some of these subjects or works of literature have.
00:23:35.320 | Somebody has told us that it's too high brow for us
00:23:39.240 | and we bought into that.
00:23:41.440 | You are right.
00:23:42.280 | And there is almost always something
00:23:46.360 | that will resonate with you
00:23:48.920 | if you read something you think is too hard for you.
00:23:54.200 | You will find something to grab onto
00:23:57.880 | and it grows from there.
00:24:00.080 | So I love that.
00:24:00.920 | Thank you for the reading suggestion as well.
00:24:03.360 | That's great.
00:24:04.680 | That's great.
00:24:05.560 | So let me ask you, have you heard people who say,
00:24:09.800 | well, I'm either going to do the challenge program
00:24:14.240 | or I'm going to do dual enrollment
00:24:17.680 | because I think I can't do challenge and dual enrollment.
00:24:21.120 | It would just be too much.
00:24:23.920 | - Yeah, I often find that they kind of say that,
00:24:27.320 | but they say that, I guess, by their actions
00:24:32.000 | rather than actually, it's kind of like,
00:24:35.440 | they don't drop out of the challenge program entirely
00:24:38.360 | all the time.
00:24:39.200 | - Right, right.
00:24:40.680 | - They'll be like, I was directing challenge
00:24:43.600 | for two years ago and probably I had a class of eight,
00:24:48.440 | six of them were probably enrolled
00:24:50.440 | in dual enrollment somewhere
00:24:53.040 | and they were doing the challenge program.
00:24:55.920 | And obviously that tension,
00:24:59.120 | it's real inside the classroom,
00:25:02.920 | whenever you meet on that day,
00:25:04.680 | 'cause they're tired from going to class early that morning
00:25:08.040 | or maybe they're coming in or doing something.
00:25:10.480 | So often the challenge program does get deprioritized
00:25:14.840 | if not dismissed altogether for the sake
00:25:17.960 | of something like dual enrollment.
00:25:19.200 | Yeah, it's common.
00:25:20.200 | - Yeah, so people don't necessarily
00:25:23.400 | stop being challenged students.
00:25:25.360 | They just stop being challenged by the work
00:25:28.480 | because they don't do it as much.
00:25:31.400 | They just let that go off.
00:25:33.200 | Well, I know, like I said before,
00:25:35.080 | when I became a challenge director years and years ago,
00:25:38.200 | there was no programmed answers for people wanting,
00:25:43.200 | for families wanting a dual enrollment experience.
00:25:47.920 | So tell us how CC+ came about and why it was developed
00:25:52.920 | and then you can just go ahead
00:25:55.960 | and tell us the pluses of the program.
00:25:58.720 | - Yeah, definitely.
00:26:01.160 | So CC+, we've been playing with this for a little while now,
00:26:05.480 | kind of what is the mission and vision of CC+
00:26:10.160 | and really I think it's this idea of opening college doors
00:26:15.680 | for classical conversations families.
00:26:18.520 | Our goal is to shrink that kind of perceived obstacle
00:26:24.640 | of college as a barrier for homeschool families
00:26:28.360 | and for classical conversations families in particular.
00:26:33.320 | And when students are going into the dual enrollment space,
00:26:36.680 | families are putting their kids into community colleges
00:26:39.600 | to give them like a taste of the college experience
00:26:42.160 | before they just send them out.
00:26:45.280 | And I think it really, I mean, it's kind of,
00:26:50.280 | it's not always a bad idea,
00:26:52.480 | but we think that there's probably a better way to do it.
00:26:55.400 | And that's why we kind of, you know,
00:26:57.080 | have started developing this program
00:27:00.760 | is so that we can have students enter into
00:27:04.000 | and get a taste of the college experience
00:27:05.800 | while they're still in the community of their homeschool
00:27:09.640 | and their classical conversations group,
00:27:11.760 | but they're interacting with college professors
00:27:14.560 | and with college level work.
00:27:16.480 | And, you know, whatever that means,
00:27:18.280 | that's happening inside the CC+ program, so.
00:27:23.640 | - I like that.
00:27:25.520 | It is a way to spread your wings
00:27:28.440 | while you are still on the flying field of your family,
00:27:32.840 | you know, within their care and they are there.
00:27:37.840 | I love the idea of experiencing college
00:27:43.560 | and interacting with even more outside mentors
00:27:48.560 | than your challenge tutor,
00:27:51.440 | while still being under the authority
00:27:54.200 | and guidance of your parents.
00:27:55.840 | I love that.
00:27:57.360 | So those are definitely pluses that I agree,
00:28:01.320 | that I can see and the benefits to families
00:28:04.240 | and to the students.
00:28:05.840 | So what's the, okay, so in CC+,
00:28:10.680 | the students are still part of a CC community.
00:28:15.640 | So what's the plus stand for?
00:28:18.640 | - Yeah, so the plus originally as an idea
00:28:22.000 | was meant to be kind of to indicate the partnership
00:28:27.000 | between CC and another institution, a college most likely.
00:28:32.920 | And so it would be like classical conversations
00:28:35.760 | plus Southeastern University,
00:28:38.640 | or classical conversations plus Bryan College
00:28:42.520 | or any of the other, you know, colleges
00:28:45.240 | that we've partnered with through the years.
00:28:47.600 | Southeastern University is our primary partner
00:28:50.200 | and the plus is kind of indicates
00:28:54.160 | the additive relationship.
00:28:56.440 | - Okay, that's great, the additive relationship, yeah.
00:29:00.120 | - Yeah.
00:29:00.960 | But in regards to like the why CC+ does what it does,
00:29:08.080 | why we're plusing with another institution is,
00:29:12.080 | I mean, obviously a huge one in the world today
00:29:15.000 | is gonna be cost.
00:29:17.280 | And families, you know, especially with the way
00:29:20.600 | that the, you know, just the kind of economic norms
00:29:24.760 | are headed and the way that they are right now,
00:29:27.800 | everyone's looking to save some way somehow.
00:29:32.240 | And the traditional model of dual enrollment
00:29:37.400 | being, let's say, free in a lot of states
00:29:40.360 | and then these dual enrollment programs
00:29:42.960 | having a partnership with another institution
00:29:46.520 | that's then very expensive
00:29:48.600 | and they're kind of directly funneled.
00:29:51.440 | Like the free dual enrollment inside the current model
00:29:54.480 | will almost always make the money back some way somehow.
00:29:59.240 | It's free to get students in the door
00:30:01.520 | and then they charge you money after you've committed
00:30:04.400 | and are, you know, on a track.
00:30:06.680 | - Yeah, the Tonstoffel from challenge one
00:30:08.960 | is a real thing in the real world.
00:30:11.200 | There is no such thing as a free lunch, yep.
00:30:14.800 | - Exactly.
00:30:15.720 | And so one of the things that we've done
00:30:18.160 | is try to optimize this cost model.
00:30:21.720 | And so we thought,
00:30:23.160 | well, why don't we do something kind of backwards?
00:30:26.720 | Let's charge a little bit of money for the dual enrollment,
00:30:29.960 | or we call it the concurrent enrollment program,
00:30:33.840 | which is still like right around midline of a cost
00:30:38.400 | for normal dual enrollment programs at 167 per credit hour.
00:30:43.200 | But we align it with all of the challenge curriculum
00:30:48.240 | and the assignments from the guide.
00:30:50.360 | And so that makes it a time save
00:30:52.880 | because students focus all their attention
00:30:54.640 | on one set of curriculum
00:30:56.320 | and are doing all their assignments from there.
00:30:58.680 | And then rather than charging them a bunch more money
00:31:02.640 | when they enroll as a student at a four-year university,
00:31:06.840 | that's where we have the undergraduate program,
00:31:09.760 | which is basically an inversion of the model
00:31:12.440 | that the free dual enrollment
00:31:13.800 | funneling into expensive four-year education.
00:31:16.440 | We have dual enrollment that's priced at a moderate level
00:31:20.320 | and then funnels into an incredibly affordable option
00:31:23.560 | with the undergraduate program.
00:31:25.120 | And so that is something
00:31:28.200 | that I encourage everyone to check out.
00:31:29.920 | If you're a parent of a CC student
00:31:33.200 | or if you're a CC graduate
00:31:34.800 | and you want to move through your bachelor's degree,
00:31:38.440 | we have an option for that and degree plans.
00:31:41.720 | It's all on our website, classicalconversationsplus.com,
00:31:45.240 | but we're really proud of this program
00:31:47.480 | and SEU has been pretty awesome to work with
00:31:51.480 | to create this undergraduate option.
00:31:54.280 | - That's really great.
00:31:55.280 | So you gave us a ton of information there
00:31:58.880 | about two programs that are,
00:32:02.040 | they're sister programs, but they're different
00:32:05.040 | because you talked about the concurrent enrollment program
00:32:09.240 | and that would be for students
00:32:10.800 | who are still in high school, correct,
00:32:13.200 | who are also going to get college credit.
00:32:16.840 | And we're gonna talk about that
00:32:18.200 | 'cause I have a bunch of questions for you.
00:32:19.680 | I think my listeners really want to know.
00:32:21.560 | And then the second program that you mentioned
00:32:24.080 | is the undergraduate program
00:32:25.680 | where students could continue their relationship with SEU
00:32:30.680 | and get a bachelor's degree, right?
00:32:35.960 | Okay, awesome, awesome.
00:32:38.200 | Now, I know that there are parents and families,
00:32:41.640 | especially at this time of the year,
00:32:43.880 | who are very eager to get the details
00:32:47.160 | about this concurrent enrollment program
00:32:50.680 | or 'cause maybe they're interested in enrolling this fall
00:32:55.360 | and time is drawing nigh and it's getting short.
00:32:58.880 | And then we have families that want to add it
00:33:02.120 | into their planning options down the road
00:33:04.720 | so they can think about it.
00:33:05.760 | So I want you to tell us all the things, okay,
00:33:09.200 | but also tell my listeners one more time
00:33:12.560 | where to find all this information again
00:33:15.440 | when the podcast is over
00:33:17.240 | so you can give us the website again.
00:33:19.640 | And then if there are any counselors or real people, Daniel,
00:33:24.720 | that they can call or contact in some way to talk to,
00:33:29.000 | that would be awesome.
00:33:30.600 | - Yes, for sure.
00:33:31.760 | Okay, so we'll move through this
00:33:33.560 | and maybe I'll ask for a reminder
00:33:35.560 | of the string of questions in a moment.
00:33:37.760 | Okay. - Oh yeah.
00:33:39.040 | - Number one, classicalconversationsplus.com
00:33:43.360 | is gonna be where you can go to find all the information.
00:33:47.000 | On that website, there's a get started button
00:33:50.440 | on the concurrent enrollment page.
00:33:53.680 | That button takes you to a registration guide.
00:33:57.560 | On that registration guide is a information portal
00:34:01.240 | with way too much information.
00:34:03.280 | (laughing)
00:34:04.400 | And so if you wanna just do some reading,
00:34:06.840 | follow those kind of prompts that I just gave
00:34:09.440 | and you can go in,
00:34:10.440 | you can see brief descriptions of every course
00:34:13.920 | that we offer in alignment with the challenge curriculum.
00:34:16.880 | I believe there's 29 different courses.
00:34:19.320 | - Wow, okay.
00:34:20.160 | - With assignments all listed out
00:34:22.600 | and materials drawn from the challenge guide.
00:34:25.960 | So you could look into and investigate every course
00:34:29.240 | available with the concurrent enrollment program
00:34:31.520 | before signing up for any of them.
00:34:33.480 | - Gotcha, that's awesome.
00:34:35.480 | Fact finding mission, good.
00:34:37.360 | - Exactly, exactly.
00:34:39.440 | So that's definitely something to check out on the website.
00:34:43.600 | As far as counselors go,
00:34:45.920 | obviously there's gonna be a contact us option
00:34:49.480 | at the bottom of the website for our email
00:34:52.520 | and then I believe it's my phone number.
00:34:56.240 | - Oh, well you may soon find out my friend.
00:34:59.720 | - Yes, that's on the bottom of the website.
00:35:02.480 | And so I will be happy to talk with anyone
00:35:07.280 | about the CC plus and point people in the right direction
00:35:11.080 | for what they need to do.
00:35:12.760 | There's also a concurrent
00:35:15.560 | or on the undergraduate program page,
00:35:18.240 | there's a student consultation option.
00:35:20.880 | And so we've partnered with another institution
00:35:23.280 | called Solid Rock Consulting
00:35:25.560 | and they offer complimentary student consultations
00:35:29.880 | to all of our CC families.
00:35:31.640 | And so if you're interested in getting more information,
00:35:34.400 | you can also go there and schedule a consultation.
00:35:37.000 | So those are a couple of ways
00:35:40.400 | that you can get in touch with people
00:35:42.440 | to learn more about the program
00:35:44.160 | and to kind of begin the journey.
00:35:46.040 | - Okay.
00:35:46.880 | - But again, there's a ton of resources available
00:35:48.920 | off the get started button on the website
00:35:51.960 | for concurrent enrollment.
00:35:53.680 | So.
00:35:54.520 | - Thank you.
00:35:55.360 | I just wanted to be sure
00:35:56.640 | that I did not forget to ask you that
00:35:59.000 | because I know that after people listen to this podcast,
00:36:03.880 | they are going to be very interested
00:36:05.880 | in finding out more information.
00:36:08.000 | And I wanna be sure that people know where they can go
00:36:10.600 | to get all the information and more
00:36:13.680 | than they really thought they needed.
00:36:15.560 | So I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions.
00:36:19.160 | Some we have probably already covered,
00:36:21.600 | but I want the listeners to have all this information
00:36:24.320 | grouped together in the same point in the podcast.
00:36:27.920 | So you mentioned that the college,
00:36:32.640 | the university that is providing these dual enrollment
00:36:37.440 | or concurrent enrollment credits is Southeastern University.
00:36:44.680 | Tell us a little bit about Southeastern University.
00:36:48.240 | What are their credentials?
00:36:49.520 | Is this, I mean, I know that CC would not partner
00:36:52.160 | with an organization that wasn't top-notch,
00:36:56.000 | but tell parents something about SEU.
00:37:00.120 | - Yeah, so I think the fun thing to talk about
00:37:03.400 | when it comes to college credit, families always ask me,
00:37:06.720 | I was on a call with 14 families,
00:37:10.000 | I mean, just two days ago on my CC plus office hours,
00:37:13.760 | which happens every month.
00:37:15.320 | That's on the registration guide as well
00:37:17.720 | for families that wanna be on a video call with me.
00:37:20.280 | So the partnership with Southeastern University
00:37:25.520 | is pretty awesome because SEU has been very diligent
00:37:30.520 | at kind of paying to Caesar what is Caesar's.
00:37:34.080 | Maybe that's a good way to think about it.
00:37:36.240 | In the way that they are accredited
00:37:38.720 | through a regional accreditation body,
00:37:41.200 | which is the highest accreditation body
00:37:43.680 | in the college environment.
00:37:45.280 | It's kind of the status quo.
00:37:46.880 | If you're gonna be even a state school,
00:37:49.320 | they're all accredited through these institutions.
00:37:52.280 | SEU is a level six regionally accredited school,
00:37:58.360 | which means essentially that they have programs
00:38:03.280 | through PhDs that are all accredited
00:38:06.600 | by these regional accreditation institutions.
00:38:10.560 | And so the credit from SEU is as legit a college credit
00:38:15.560 | as you can find anywhere,
00:38:18.800 | I guess is the kind of takeaway.
00:38:20.760 | - Yes, good, because frankly,
00:38:23.680 | that is the kind of question that I get too.
00:38:26.680 | Well, this concurrent enrollment option sounds really good,
00:38:31.080 | but how can I be sure that these credits my student earns
00:38:35.480 | are gonna transfer to the four-year college of their choice?
00:38:40.640 | What if it turns out not to be Southeastern University?
00:38:43.880 | Are all these colleges my kid is interested in
00:38:46.600 | gonna take these credits?
00:38:48.000 | And so that sets our minds at rest,
00:38:51.080 | that level six accreditation is awesome, awesome.
00:38:55.440 | - Yeah, and I can give your listeners one key tidbit as well
00:39:00.440 | regarding the transferring process.
00:39:02.760 | So every university has what I call
00:39:05.560 | the "keeper of the credits."
00:39:08.360 | And this role is titled registrar.
00:39:12.840 | Usually if you contact the college,
00:39:15.640 | you can choose to be funneled to their registrar's office.
00:39:19.680 | And with the resources that we provide
00:39:21.640 | either through our customer service email,
00:39:23.520 | ccplus@classicalconversations.com,
00:39:27.000 | or the course descriptions that you can pull off
00:39:30.640 | of the student information portal,
00:39:32.720 | usually families have enough information
00:39:35.280 | if they know the school that they're looking at
00:39:37.720 | to get in touch with the registrar,
00:39:39.840 | to show them the brief descriptions
00:39:43.480 | or syllabi of our courses,
00:39:45.520 | and request a transfer evaluation
00:39:48.520 | before completing the course.
00:39:51.040 | So there's options for families to go ahead
00:39:54.840 | and do the legwork with the university.
00:39:57.360 | But once that legwork is done, there's a precedent set.
00:40:01.560 | So all of the courses that CC+ students have gone
00:40:04.880 | and gone ahead and transferred credits into,
00:40:08.680 | all of those courses will now have a gateway
00:40:11.560 | or a pathway for future CC+ students
00:40:14.640 | to be confirmed in their transfer credit.
00:40:18.600 | So that's really important,
00:40:19.720 | and that's been going on now for about five years.
00:40:22.800 | So that's really good.
00:40:23.640 | - Well, that's awesome.
00:40:24.600 | That means that students who are entering the program now
00:40:28.440 | and hoping to go forth have had people
00:40:30.480 | already break the barrier and pave the road for them,
00:40:34.840 | a little bit.
00:40:35.680 | That's awesome, Daniel.
00:40:37.040 | Thank you.
00:40:37.880 | That is very encouraging.
00:40:39.200 | Okay, so now as a parent, I'm thinking,
00:40:42.000 | well, this sounds awesome.
00:40:43.640 | Let us sign up right now.
00:40:45.560 | Tell, who can participate
00:40:47.560 | in this concurrent enrollment program?
00:40:51.160 | How old does my student have to be?
00:40:55.160 | What level of challenge?
00:40:57.800 | Why can't they participate as early as I want them
00:41:00.520 | to talk about that?
00:41:02.480 | - Sure.
00:41:03.320 | So we try to strike a fine line.
00:41:05.760 | We have some potential programs in the works
00:41:09.960 | that are gonna be oriented toward prep for CC+.
00:41:14.960 | If families are interested in that,
00:41:17.600 | I'll be working on that a little bit more
00:41:19.560 | over the next probably couple of years.
00:41:21.880 | But right now, the program starts in challenge two,
00:41:25.840 | and we have the fewest offerings available in challenge two
00:41:29.360 | just to make sure that the family doesn't get too distracted
00:41:33.080 | by the CC+ coursework.
00:41:36.960 | But challenge two, three, and four students
00:41:39.400 | can all participate in the concurrent enrollment program.
00:41:43.040 | - Good, good.
00:41:45.920 | And so what are some of the signs
00:41:50.920 | that a student would be a good fit
00:41:56.080 | or that CC+ would be a good fit for my student?
00:42:01.280 | - Yes, I remember when I discovered this
00:42:06.280 | after working with the program for a little while.
00:42:09.120 | The only students that ever have trouble
00:42:11.360 | really with the CC+ program are students
00:42:14.600 | that are not used to being very administratively sharp.
00:42:19.280 | So I would say if you have a student that keeps a calendar
00:42:24.240 | and they check their email on a regular basis
00:42:26.440 | and are diligent and tenacious communicators
00:42:28.960 | over the plane of the internet,
00:42:31.280 | then you're going to have a student
00:42:33.560 | that can be very successful inside of CC+.
00:42:36.920 | It's really just a case usually of missing an email
00:42:40.320 | from a professor or closing a browser too fast
00:42:43.880 | when you thought you uploaded an assignment
00:42:46.360 | that gets students in trouble.
00:42:47.800 | - Okay, so they have to keep a careful watch
00:42:54.040 | on the interface.
00:42:56.400 | It's not the same thing as saying,
00:43:00.400 | "Well, I handed it in."
00:43:01.880 | You actually have to be sure that you clicked the button
00:43:04.600 | to upload your assignment.
00:43:07.240 | - And this is a skill set now
00:43:09.680 | that's actually universal
00:43:11.120 | across the world of college education,
00:43:13.080 | which makes it more important.
00:43:15.120 | Like even if you're in person on campus,
00:43:18.640 | you're still going to be uploading an assignment
00:43:20.720 | on a platform like Canvas, like Brightspace, like Blackboard,
00:43:25.720 | like even the in-person schools now
00:43:27.920 | are using these LMSs, Learning Management Systems.
00:43:32.160 | You're not handing a piece of paper
00:43:33.720 | into a professor anymore in most cases.
00:43:36.920 | - You're signing off on a learning module online.
00:43:40.440 | Yeah. - Exactly.
00:43:41.400 | - So, okay, let me ask you this.
00:43:43.600 | What help do you guys provide to families and students?
00:43:48.680 | Because I know, now my girls are older,
00:43:51.040 | so they're done with college,
00:43:53.240 | but I remember when they went to college
00:43:55.120 | and they started talking about these,
00:43:57.200 | you know, Canvas and all these billboards
00:43:59.480 | and all these learning platforms,
00:44:01.840 | and I was like, "I'm sorry, I cannot help you with that.
00:44:04.400 | "I do not understand."
00:44:06.000 | I mean, I used to turn my paper in in the professor's office
00:44:08.880 | if I didn't give it to him in class.
00:44:11.120 | So do you guys provide some help to students and families
00:44:16.780 | who are learning that system?
00:44:18.940 | - Yes, absolutely.
00:44:20.420 | So we have our, I mean, that's a majority
00:44:23.460 | of our customer service is oriented in that direction.
00:44:26.920 | And I mean, that's what I do.
00:44:28.500 | That's what our counselors do.
00:44:30.100 | That's, everyone does a little bit of helping students
00:44:33.260 | figure out what that process looks like
00:44:35.980 | to exist in this course shell.
00:44:39.660 | - That's awesome.
00:44:40.900 | - Yeah, that's a big part of the skills
00:44:43.620 | that we're developing in the CC+ program.
00:44:46.380 | And so most of our team is oriented
00:44:48.700 | at helping students navigate that,
00:44:50.500 | but really trying to teach them how to fish
00:44:53.460 | instead of giving them the fish.
00:44:55.620 | You know, there's really an emphasis
00:44:58.220 | on this continuation of lifelong learning
00:45:01.080 | and of learning the skills of learning
00:45:03.080 | just in a different domain.
00:45:04.580 | So that's the bit.
00:45:06.540 | There's helps on the student information portal
00:45:10.340 | for navigating these portals
00:45:12.580 | or navigating these course shells.
00:45:14.100 | And there's also, there are videos inside
00:45:18.280 | this learning management system as well
00:45:20.700 | that are oriented toward teaching the student
00:45:24.000 | how to navigate.
00:45:25.100 | So- - That's awesome.
00:45:26.340 | That's awesome.
00:45:27.320 | Good, because I just, I appreciate you offering us
00:45:30.860 | reassurance that there are resources to help us.
00:45:35.380 | This is gonna be new information to a lot of families.
00:45:39.140 | And so I want them to know that there is support out there
00:45:42.420 | to help them learn as they go how to do this.
00:45:46.540 | Okay, so what subjects, what courses are offered
00:45:51.220 | in concurrent enrollment?
00:45:52.620 | And just, you can just, I mean,
00:45:54.140 | you don't have to name all of the courses, Daniel,
00:45:56.780 | but like, are they literature courses?
00:46:00.740 | Are they history courses?
00:46:02.020 | Are they math courses?
00:46:03.360 | What subjects or strands have CC+ connections?
00:46:08.360 | - Yeah, that's a good question.
00:46:11.140 | I wanna say almost all of them.
00:46:13.860 | - Wow.
00:46:14.700 | - Whereas I know in challenge two, we have Latin,
00:46:18.900 | we have Western cultural history, we have college algebra,
00:46:22.660 | we have biology, and we have English composition.
00:46:25.100 | So that's what, five out of the six strands?
00:46:26.860 | - Wow, yeah.
00:46:28.820 | - And that pattern is essentially repeated
00:46:31.340 | for all of the challenge programs.
00:46:34.300 | I believe that the only one,
00:46:37.900 | one of the only ones that we do not have
00:46:40.940 | a CC+ concurrent enrollment class for
00:46:44.060 | is physics at this point.
00:46:46.100 | - Gotcha.
00:46:47.380 | - But that's because I don't think
00:46:49.100 | that Southeastern University actually has a physics class.
00:46:53.740 | - Okay, so maybe we'll help them grow into a new direction.
00:46:57.380 | - Maybe so.
00:46:58.220 | - You never know.
00:46:59.140 | So how many CC+ credits
00:47:03.420 | could my student pursue each semester?
00:47:07.260 | And maybe even a better question is,
00:47:09.900 | how many do you guys counsel them to do per semester?
00:47:14.900 | - Right.
00:47:16.460 | So it depends on what your aim is.
00:47:18.700 | The world is becoming increasingly, let's say modular
00:47:21.900 | in the sense that students and parents kind of expect things
00:47:25.300 | to be tailored to their own experience.
00:47:27.500 | - Yes.
00:47:28.540 | - And so one of the things that we have done
00:47:32.420 | with the CC+ program is set it up
00:47:34.580 | to where in concurrent enrollment,
00:47:36.380 | you can choose kind of two pathways.
00:47:38.860 | - Okay.
00:47:39.700 | - The first one is kind of a la carte picking
00:47:42.900 | of one to two courses per semester of your challenge journey
00:47:47.900 | and ending up with about, I don't know,
00:47:50.860 | maybe almost two semesters of college done
00:47:53.660 | by the time you finish the challenge program.
00:47:55.540 | - Yeah.
00:47:56.380 | - So you save yourself a year of college
00:47:58.100 | and then you move along and do whatever it is
00:48:00.820 | that you're going to do next.
00:48:02.380 | Or you can choose, and this is for students
00:48:06.340 | that really feel administratively comfortable
00:48:09.020 | and are really confident in their ability
00:48:12.060 | to deal with the LMS systems.
00:48:15.220 | You can choose to pursue an associate's degree
00:48:19.060 | from between the timespan of challenge two to challenge four
00:48:22.460 | and graduate challenge four with an associate's degree.
00:48:25.460 | - Wow.
00:48:26.660 | - If you wanna do that,
00:48:27.780 | that ends up being about 60 college credit hours,
00:48:30.340 | which comes roughly almost to a full load
00:48:33.700 | in regards to classical conversations plus courses.
00:48:37.940 | You need to talk to one of our counselors
00:48:40.060 | before you do that,
00:48:41.100 | just so that we can make sure that you're set up,
00:48:43.740 | you're moving along the right path
00:48:45.220 | and that you will indeed graduate
00:48:46.820 | with an associate's degree.
00:48:48.580 | - That is so interesting.
00:48:50.420 | And I know parents, you might just be thinking,
00:48:52.940 | but I have 10 questions about this.
00:48:55.220 | We can't actually cover that in a 50 minute podcast.
00:49:00.020 | So the website is your friend.
00:49:02.780 | Like Daniel said, there's way more information there
00:49:06.980 | than you probably will want to chew up in one mouthful.
00:49:10.020 | So you can find more answers and deeper answers
00:49:13.980 | to some of these questions on the website.
00:49:17.620 | So Daniel, I know we're starting to run out of time,
00:49:21.540 | but I wanna ask, what are the courses like for students?
00:49:25.140 | Is it a lot of extra work?
00:49:27.660 | Are there additional lectures or workshops
00:49:30.860 | or sessions to attend?
00:49:32.980 | What is it like to do a course?
00:49:35.660 | - Yeah, so one of the primary features
00:49:38.700 | is the time saving component.
00:49:40.700 | And that means that the classes function asynchronously.
00:49:44.460 | And so there is no like designated meeting class time,
00:49:49.460 | even in online chat rooms or anything like that.
00:49:53.740 | It's the community day comprises the entirety
00:49:57.700 | of the quote unquote class time of the course.
00:50:01.460 | And so families can look at the course descriptions
00:50:06.260 | obviously to get more detailed information.
00:50:09.020 | But one thing I can say is every CC+ course
00:50:12.580 | has you do less work than what's in the challenge guide.
00:50:15.940 | - Wow.
00:50:18.140 | - Which is pretty important.
00:50:19.100 | Like, so the assignments are gonna be kind of picked
00:50:21.700 | and chosen from the suite of assignments
00:50:24.380 | in the challenge guide that suit the particular course
00:50:28.260 | that the student is trying to take.
00:50:30.580 | So like composition one will have six essays
00:50:34.060 | over the course of a semester.
00:50:36.020 | The students are gonna write probably more than six essays
00:50:38.940 | over the fall semester of challenge two.
00:50:41.740 | If it's anything like when I did challenge two,
00:50:43.900 | I think we wrote like 21 essays over the course of that.
00:50:47.220 | - Oh yeah, in those days you did.
00:50:49.540 | - Yeah, and so, and I'm sure that the writing is still,
00:50:52.260 | there's still more than we choose in the CC+ courses.
00:50:56.300 | And so that should encourage families
00:50:58.980 | that the content, the material,
00:51:00.460 | and the challenge guide is abundant.
00:51:02.620 | And we've actually tailored things a little bit
00:51:04.860 | to suit the particular courses
00:51:06.620 | that we're accomplishing with SEU.
00:51:09.460 | - Good, that, man, that sounds amazing
00:51:13.020 | that my student could get a good education,
00:51:17.500 | a good classical education,
00:51:19.220 | and they could do this concurrent enrollment.
00:51:21.620 | And we probably wouldn't die
00:51:24.020 | because it's not so much more work.
00:51:26.380 | That's awesome.
00:51:27.860 | That's very awesome.
00:51:28.700 | So let me ask you this,
00:51:30.380 | how would people get registered for this fall
00:51:33.940 | or is it too late for this fall?
00:51:36.580 | I'm guessing not.
00:51:38.340 | - No, it's not too late for this fall.
00:51:40.780 | The first step would be to go on and apply.
00:51:44.260 | And so that again is accessible from the get started button
00:51:47.940 | on the concurrent enrollment page on our website.
00:51:50.780 | After you apply, you don't need test scores.
00:51:55.340 | You don't need anything like that.
00:51:57.460 | We have this relationship with SEU
00:51:59.860 | that allows for what we call directed mission.
00:52:02.180 | And so this is becoming a trend
00:52:04.620 | in the higher education world.
00:52:06.820 | Basically, it means that if you're a CC student,
00:52:10.220 | you get automatically accepted into Southeastern University.
00:52:13.980 | And so you can apply.
00:52:16.540 | The acceptance process should take somewhere
00:52:18.740 | between two and 48 hours for your student to get an email.
00:52:22.780 | Then they log on to their student portal
00:52:25.060 | and then just like click everything, read everything,
00:52:28.980 | get comfortable in this new ocean of a college system,
00:52:32.980 | and then watch some of the tutorial videos to get signed up.
00:52:36.460 | - Wow, that is awesome.
00:52:39.700 | That is so awesome.
00:52:40.860 | What's the cost, Daniel?
00:52:43.780 | What's the cost for CC Plus, the concurrent enrollment?
00:52:47.740 | - Yes, so the cost for the concurrent enrollment program
00:52:53.340 | is $167 per credit hour,
00:52:57.140 | or roughly $500 per course that you add on.
00:53:01.380 | And so if you think about it,
00:53:03.460 | most of the time students will take one to two courses,
00:53:06.900 | and this is roughly the same as paying for challenge,
00:53:11.900 | is the two course cost
00:53:14.940 | to do a Classical Conversations Plus program.
00:53:18.260 | Families and students,
00:53:21.100 | because we've got the payment system
00:53:22.660 | going through Southeastern University now,
00:53:25.100 | can try to apply scholarships or grants that they have.
00:53:28.380 | Usually those don't apply
00:53:31.140 | for a quote-unquote dual enrollment phase of education.
00:53:34.860 | I would definitely pay for the undergraduate.
00:53:37.100 | Or they could also use something like a 529 plan
00:53:42.780 | to pay for those courses as well.
00:53:44.500 | So there's a myriad of options
00:53:46.020 | now that our payment system is a little more integrated.
00:53:48.620 | - That's cool.
00:53:49.460 | Are there any scholarships
00:53:51.380 | for concurrent enrollment programs?
00:53:54.540 | - Not for concurrent enrollment programs
00:53:57.220 | too much at the moment.
00:53:58.500 | There are certain grants that can apply
00:54:01.580 | for the student that's still in high school
00:54:06.580 | applying funds to a dual enrollment
00:54:09.860 | or concurrent enrollment program.
00:54:11.900 | Those are few and far between,
00:54:13.700 | and usually tend to be associated with,
00:54:15.820 | let's say like there's different,
00:54:19.220 | I know that there was one that I encountered
00:54:20.940 | that had something to do with
00:54:22.380 | being like a indigenous Native American.
00:54:28.260 | - Okay, okay, yeah.
00:54:31.260 | - So something like that,
00:54:32.900 | but they tend to be few and far between.
00:54:36.140 | - And very narrow in focus,
00:54:39.020 | and very narrow in participation, yeah.
00:54:42.060 | - Right, so some of those,
00:54:44.860 | I would steer away from the ESAs.
00:54:47.660 | They're available in Florida
00:54:49.740 | that cause you to have to shut down your homeschool
00:54:53.180 | to receive funds to then be able to pay
00:54:55.780 | for alternate modes of high school education.
00:54:59.140 | I was talking with someone on the phone
00:55:00.300 | about that the other day.
00:55:01.860 | So really not too much for the concurrent enrollment,
00:55:05.300 | but when you get into the undergraduate,
00:55:07.180 | the world of scholarships really does open up quite a bit.
00:55:10.020 | - Gotcha, gotcha.
00:55:11.540 | This has been so awesome.
00:55:13.980 | You have shared some really good information.
00:55:16.060 | I think families are gonna be ready.
00:55:18.860 | Some people to act on it probably this fall.
00:55:21.740 | Some people may file this
00:55:23.940 | and be working toward a concurrent enrollment plan
00:55:27.580 | for their challenge student once they hit challenge two.
00:55:30.460 | Daniel, thank you so much for sharing your insights.
00:55:34.340 | Let me ask you one last thing.
00:55:36.340 | To you, what is the best thing about CC+?
00:55:41.340 | What's the main reason to check it out?
00:55:45.660 | - I think the main reason to check it out
00:55:47.700 | is it really has to do
00:55:50.340 | with preserving the attention of your student.
00:55:53.020 | I find that we know that the curriculum that we're pursuing
00:55:57.060 | and the way we're pursuing it
00:55:58.540 | in the Classical Conversations classrooms
00:56:01.420 | is oriented toward what is John Milton says,
00:56:06.420 | "Something like the goal of education
00:56:08.460 | "is to correct the folly of our first parents."
00:56:11.540 | And that's the attitude that we try to preserve
00:56:14.260 | inside the space of the classroom.
00:56:16.700 | And that's the attitude
00:56:18.740 | that I feel like gets a little bit lost
00:56:21.300 | when we start paying attention to the secondary things
00:56:23.740 | instead of the one thing.
00:56:25.340 | - Yeah.
00:56:26.180 | - So preservation of attention is, in my mind,
00:56:30.180 | that's kind of a motivation for why I do what I do.
00:56:32.780 | - Wow, that's awesome.
00:56:35.740 | That is awesome.
00:56:37.180 | I appreciate these insights.
00:56:40.180 | You've given us a lot of good things to think about.
00:56:42.900 | A couple of good things to read
00:56:44.900 | and a website that can fill in all the chinks
00:56:47.540 | you and I might have left open.
00:56:50.260 | Thank you, Daniel.
00:56:51.300 | I appreciate that.
00:56:52.220 | Parents, if you are eager to find out more
00:56:56.940 | about what Daniel shared with us today,
00:56:58.940 | don't forget you need to go to ccplus.com
00:57:03.940 | and click the Get Started button
00:57:06.780 | and you will find a wealth of information there
00:57:09.940 | that can fill in the gaps for you and for your family.
00:57:14.540 | And parents, if you are feeling a gap in yourself
00:57:19.540 | as a classical educator,
00:57:22.620 | I want to remind you of a great program
00:57:27.620 | that can help you fill those gaps,
00:57:32.180 | the classical learning cohort.
00:57:35.060 | You know, at CC, we believe that education
00:57:37.500 | is the responsibility of the family
00:57:40.460 | with support from fellow believers.
00:57:43.420 | So if you are looking to grow in confidence and competence
00:57:47.780 | with these classical tools of learning,
00:57:50.580 | the classical learning cohort can meet your need.
00:57:53.660 | They meet regularly online
00:57:56.180 | to practice the tools of learning.
00:57:58.380 | It's through discussion and some presentations
00:58:01.660 | and through some assessment.
00:58:03.460 | If you are interested in pursuing this for yourself,
00:58:08.180 | join the conversation at classicalconversations.com/cohort.
00:58:13.180 | All right.
00:58:16.900 | I am so glad, Daniel, that you joined us today
00:58:19.820 | and I'm already looking forward to talking to you again
00:58:22.820 | in the fall about writing.
00:58:24.620 | - That sounds awesome.
00:58:26.500 | Thanks for having me on, Lisa.
00:58:27.780 | - Thanks.
00:58:28.620 | All right, parents, go and enjoy a summer day
00:58:32.540 | with your kids and I will see you next week.
00:58:36.060 | (gentle music)
00:58:38.640 | you
00:58:40.700 | [BLANK_AUDIO]