Everyday Educator - Behind the Scenes of the Copper Lodge Library
00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)
00:00:02.580 | - Welcome friends to this episode
00:00:07.140 | of the "Everyday Educator" podcast.
00:00:09.840 | I'm your host, Lisa Bailey,
00:00:11.560 | and I'm excited to spend some time with you today
00:00:14.680 | as we encourage one another, learn together,
00:00:18.000 | and ponder the delights and challenges
00:00:20.680 | that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime.
00:00:24.360 | Whether you're just considering
00:00:26.480 | this homeschooling possibility
00:00:28.680 | or deep into the daily delight of family learning,
00:00:32.680 | I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.
00:00:36.680 | But don't forget,
00:00:37.880 | although this online community is awesome,
00:00:41.440 | you'll find even closer support in a local CC community.
00:00:46.440 | So go to classicalconversations.com
00:00:51.020 | and find a community near you today.
00:00:56.200 | Well, listeners, I'm excited to say
00:00:58.840 | that we are entering into the days of summer.
00:01:03.280 | I'm assuming that you are as glad as I am
00:01:07.360 | to see summertime coming
00:01:08.820 | and that maybe you and your children
00:01:11.040 | are thinking about things to do together
00:01:14.160 | and things to not do for a while.
00:01:16.800 | I remember when I was little
00:01:18.660 | and it was time for school to be out,
00:01:21.280 | I loved almost nothing better
00:01:25.220 | than finding my favorite book and curling up,
00:01:28.800 | knowing that I could read for hours and hours
00:01:31.220 | with nobody to bother me.
00:01:33.320 | And because we have so many awesome books
00:01:39.520 | to offer families and individuals
00:01:43.040 | who love to read here at Classical Conversations,
00:01:46.360 | I wanted to talk to you today
00:01:48.600 | about our Copper Lodge Library.
00:01:51.200 | And I have the perfect person
00:01:53.700 | to help me introduce you
00:01:56.040 | to some of our Copper Lodge Library editions.
00:01:59.440 | I have with me the lady who worked on
00:02:04.440 | the introductions and footnotes
00:02:07.000 | to all these Copper Lodge Library editions, Stephanie Meters.
00:02:10.800 | Stephanie, thanks for joining me today.
00:02:13.640 | - You're welcome, I'm glad to be here.
00:02:15.620 | - I know that you love books
00:02:21.000 | at least as much as I do and maybe more.
00:02:24.380 | So I feel like you're the perfect person
00:02:26.340 | to talk to us about books.
00:02:28.800 | And I want to pick your brain
00:02:31.420 | and let my listeners, let all of our listeners
00:02:35.680 | in on maybe some of the behind the scenes
00:02:40.420 | production notes about the Copper Lodge Library.
00:02:43.460 | Everybody likes to know what things are really like
00:02:46.620 | behind the scenes.
00:02:47.780 | So listeners, you get ready for a behind the scenes look
00:02:51.720 | at the Copper Lodge Library.
00:02:53.680 | Okay, Stephanie, this is what I want to ask you.
00:02:56.560 | Do you remember the first time you ever went to a library?
00:03:01.560 | - So I have a lot of early memories of going to the library,
00:03:05.440 | but I don't think I could possibly remember my first time
00:03:08.640 | because I was taken a lot.
00:03:10.600 | As far as I can remember, I was taken a lot.
00:03:13.640 | So I don't actually know what my very first time was.
00:03:16.720 | - Yes, you, okay.
00:03:20.980 | Stephanie is my older daughter.
00:03:22.980 | And so I do remember the first time Stephanie ever went
00:03:26.740 | to the library and you went,
00:03:28.620 | I mean, you were in the baby carrier.
00:03:30.660 | You went every week because I went every week.
00:03:33.500 | It was just my habit.
00:03:35.160 | And the earliest memory I have of you
00:03:37.900 | is setting your baby carrier on the big checkout,
00:03:41.860 | the circulation desk there in our little local library
00:03:46.020 | and the librarians would talk to you
00:03:48.040 | while I picked out books.
00:03:49.760 | It was lovely.
00:03:50.840 | It was lovely.
00:03:52.040 | But you do have memories of going to the library
00:03:54.760 | when you were little.
00:03:55.600 | I know.
00:03:56.520 | What did you like about going to the library
00:03:59.280 | when you were little?
00:04:01.120 | - Man, I liked everything.
00:04:02.960 | It was a weekly, at least weekly occurrence.
00:04:06.600 | We would go, us and my little sister would go.
00:04:11.600 | And then when we were homeschooling, another little boy,
00:04:14.720 | we would all go together.
00:04:15.700 | We would do story time at the library every week.
00:04:18.960 | And the librarians were so much fun and would read to us
00:04:23.460 | and they got really into the stories.
00:04:26.180 | And I remembered being treated like an adult in a way
00:04:30.640 | when I went to the library.
00:04:31.840 | The librarians seemed to respect me very much as a person
00:04:35.960 | and as a reader and somebody who had her own real opinions
00:04:39.640 | about things.
00:04:40.480 | And I was never made to feel like a child or inferior.
00:04:43.920 | They very much recognized that love of books
00:04:47.520 | is for everybody at any age.
00:04:50.040 | And so I sort of felt like an equal at the library.
00:04:53.200 | - Oh, that is so beautiful.
00:04:55.640 | I love that.
00:04:56.600 | And I have to say, I have watched you interact
00:05:00.760 | with children and books.
00:05:02.640 | And I feel like maybe you picked that up
00:05:06.240 | from the librarians.
00:05:07.160 | I feel like you treat all of the people equally
00:05:12.120 | when you're talking about books, that every person
00:05:15.120 | who loves a book is worthy of asking why.
00:05:20.120 | And they have an opinion and their opinion is not greater
00:05:24.840 | or lesser dependent upon their age
00:05:27.320 | or even the kinds of books they like to read.
00:05:29.760 | I like that.
00:05:30.760 | So do you think that going to the library
00:05:37.520 | fostered a love of books and reading in you?
00:05:42.200 | What was it?
00:05:43.200 | What do you think it was that made you love books?
00:05:47.240 | - Well, yeah, I don't know if I could say
00:05:50.760 | that it was the library 'cause it was just so many things.
00:05:53.840 | I mean, the library contributed to it,
00:05:56.920 | but just having stories be a part of our family
00:05:59.400 | contributed to it.
00:06:00.760 | I loved disappearing into books.
00:06:05.560 | They were a way to experience different places
00:06:08.520 | in the world in different time periods.
00:06:10.840 | Just the power of stories and heroes and villains
00:06:16.840 | and helpers and watching characters change.
00:06:20.840 | As a kid, I loved all of those things.
00:06:24.920 | And as a person, life takes so much longer than a story.
00:06:29.800 | And so I think it's interesting to get to see things
00:06:33.400 | come more full circle quicker when you're reading books.
00:06:36.440 | And so it lets you watch people grow
00:06:38.680 | and see what's possible to you in a faster format
00:06:42.000 | than to watch yourself actually grow up
00:06:44.760 | for literally 30 years.
00:06:46.240 | - Oh, my word, yes.
00:06:47.480 | And you can see problems resolve and situations resolve.
00:06:52.480 | And so you can actually see things come to an end,
00:06:57.440 | like you were saying.
00:06:58.960 | That's a good insight that I don't know
00:07:02.160 | if I had ever really thought about.
00:07:04.280 | I remember loving, as you say, to disappear into stories.
00:07:09.280 | And even today, I was sitting here,
00:07:13.560 | I was reading something else that another CC person
00:07:17.600 | had written about reading in the summer
00:07:20.960 | and summer book clubs.
00:07:22.480 | And I was thinking about some of the books that we have
00:07:27.480 | in our classical conversations curriculum
00:07:30.480 | that I remember reading as a child, as a teenager,
00:07:34.600 | when I didn't know they were on somebody's curriculum list.
00:07:37.160 | You know, it was just a book that I loved.
00:07:39.280 | And I was thinking about the book,
00:07:41.480 | "The Witch of Blackboard Pond" that I read as,
00:07:46.480 | I think probably like a sixth or seventh grader one summer.
00:07:52.160 | And I remember putting myself into the place of Kit.
00:07:58.720 | And I can remember feeling what it must have felt like
00:08:02.920 | to move from a place like Barbados,
00:08:06.600 | where it was always warm and people seemed friendly
00:08:10.080 | and happy, and it was sunny,
00:08:11.800 | and you swam in the turquoise water.
00:08:13.880 | And then ending up in Puritan, New England,
00:08:17.240 | where everything was gray.
00:08:19.400 | I mean, I just have this very vivid memory
00:08:22.480 | that life for Kit was azure and turquoise.
00:08:28.640 | And then all of a sudden it was steel gray and dull blue.
00:08:33.640 | And just, it was a very visceral memory
00:08:37.240 | that I have of stories.
00:08:38.800 | And I think that that was an early book
00:08:42.160 | that made me think about life
00:08:46.680 | from someone else's perspective.
00:08:48.680 | You know, like what must she have felt like?
00:08:51.680 | What would that be like?
00:08:53.520 | And so, yeah, I think that's something that books can do.
00:08:58.320 | - You mentioned that you had lots of stories growing up.
00:09:03.080 | Some people grow up with lots of books in their home.
00:09:08.000 | And some people with almost no books in their home.
00:09:10.640 | I remember as a child,
00:09:12.720 | when I would go to visit my friends' homes,
00:09:14.720 | if they didn't have books,
00:09:16.000 | I just thought that was so weird.
00:09:17.720 | Like, it'd be sort of like not having toys
00:09:20.640 | or not having furniture.
00:09:21.760 | What do you mean you have no clothes?
00:09:23.240 | You know, there are no books.
00:09:24.640 | So where did you fall?
00:09:25.840 | Did you have, I know,
00:09:27.640 | there were lots of books at our house,
00:09:29.560 | but did you have books of your very own also?
00:09:34.080 | And what did you like about having your very own books?
00:09:38.160 | - Yes, so we did have lots of books
00:09:41.720 | and I did have books of my own.
00:09:43.200 | I remember also that a lot of your books
00:09:46.920 | that you liked when you were a kid,
00:09:49.280 | you let me keep in my room.
00:09:50.920 | And so they weren't mine,
00:09:52.880 | but they got to be on my bookshelf
00:09:54.760 | because I didn't have very many books
00:09:56.480 | that were just mine yet.
00:09:58.360 | And so I got to grow my own library
00:10:00.960 | as I read different things
00:10:02.680 | and found books at the library that I liked
00:10:04.920 | and I wanted to own,
00:10:06.400 | or I found an author that I really liked
00:10:08.520 | and wanted to buy all of their books
00:10:10.200 | that were my very own.
00:10:11.920 | And just having a shelf to turn to
00:10:15.760 | was a way to entertain myself at any time.
00:10:20.520 | It was a shelf of reference also,
00:10:23.360 | even if they weren't historical fiction,
00:10:25.800 | I still think that I would pull out the books
00:10:29.360 | because I wanted to find a particular passage
00:10:31.320 | or I remember this one character,
00:10:32.920 | or there were things that I would find in the books
00:10:36.160 | that I wanted to reference again,
00:10:37.720 | either as I was writing or as I was just thinking.
00:10:40.480 | And stories and books of my own
00:10:43.720 | were always a source of inspiration too,
00:10:46.000 | because books that I loved
00:10:48.080 | would make me think of story ideas
00:10:50.600 | that I wanted to explore.
00:10:52.600 | - Hmm, yes, that's great.
00:10:56.640 | I love that, that you,
00:10:58.400 | that's really sweet.
00:11:01.320 | I know that I had some of my childhood books in your room
00:11:06.120 | because we would sit in your room and read
00:11:08.200 | and so it made sense to keep kids' books in kids' rooms.
00:11:12.400 | I'm glad to know that it meant so much to you
00:11:15.000 | to have books in your room
00:11:18.720 | that you could arrange and that you could play with,
00:11:22.400 | that you could, like you said,
00:11:24.360 | read again or visit again or reference again.
00:11:28.680 | I think that's really fun.
00:11:30.440 | What did you like about choosing books for yourself?
00:11:36.560 | - There's a lot of empowerment, I think,
00:11:43.240 | that comes with choosing your own books.
00:11:47.640 | When you're little, your parents kind of pick books for you,
00:11:50.200 | not out of control necessarily,
00:11:51.960 | just because you're little
00:11:52.800 | and you don't know what you might like.
00:11:54.240 | You don't know what's going to be interesting
00:11:55.880 | or what might inspire you.
00:11:57.520 | So your parents start out,
00:11:59.960 | but then as you develop your own taste,
00:12:01.720 | I think of it kind of like developing your own taste in music.
00:12:04.360 | You develop what you like in books
00:12:06.800 | and the kinds of stories that you like to read
00:12:09.320 | and they shape you as a person
00:12:10.720 | and then maybe you as a person shape the kind of books
00:12:13.640 | that you're choosing.
00:12:14.840 | It's a relationship, I think,
00:12:16.480 | and just part of growing up is having books of your own
00:12:20.880 | and choosing your own books, choosing what you like.
00:12:23.960 | And I remember finding some books
00:12:26.760 | that I would check out at the library that I didn't like,
00:12:28.880 | and that was interesting,
00:12:30.120 | figuring out what I just didn't think was very good
00:12:33.560 | and then trying to figure out why was it not good?
00:12:36.080 | Did you not like the characters?
00:12:38.040 | Did it not feel well-written?
00:12:39.440 | And so that was an interesting exercise as well.
00:12:43.040 | - Yes, I remember.
00:12:44.920 | I remember choosing, like you said,
00:12:48.640 | choosing your books and Sarah's books for her
00:12:52.920 | when y'all were little, you know,
00:12:55.280 | 'cause there were favorites that I knew were good
00:12:59.200 | that I wanted to see if you liked,
00:13:01.160 | and then there were books that I knew were more classic,
00:13:04.800 | were more well-written.
00:13:06.840 | I can remember when you started wanting
00:13:09.240 | to pick your own books,
00:13:11.440 | and that was a little bit hard for me,
00:13:13.560 | not because I thought you were gonna pick something
00:13:16.080 | that would harm you,
00:13:18.240 | but because I thought,
00:13:20.640 | I was afraid that you were gonna be disappointed
00:13:24.880 | because some of the books that were enticing
00:13:27.040 | to a young girl by their cover,
00:13:30.080 | I suspected would not be well-written.
00:13:33.440 | And so I hated for you,
00:13:35.240 | I think I never wanted you to be disappointed
00:13:40.080 | about the book.
00:13:41.760 | I just never wanted books to be a disappointment to you.
00:13:44.560 | And so I think that's why it was hard for me
00:13:47.080 | to let you pick a book
00:13:48.200 | that I thought might not satisfy you.
00:13:51.600 | But you know, you have to, as moms and dads,
00:13:56.640 | we have to let go.
00:13:57.760 | And I like what you said,
00:13:59.720 | that in choosing your own books,
00:14:03.040 | you felt empowered and it was freeing.
00:14:06.520 | And you did learn that the books you read
00:14:11.040 | might shape your taste,
00:14:12.720 | and then your taste could shape the books you chose.
00:14:16.560 | So that's really cool.
00:14:17.840 | I like that.
00:14:19.400 | Well, today we promised to share with people
00:14:22.400 | some behind the scenes info on the Copper Lodge Library.
00:14:27.000 | And so I kind of would like everybody to know
00:14:30.040 | where Copper Lodge comes from.
00:14:34.000 | If you notice,
00:14:35.160 | if you guys have Copper Lodge Library books at home,
00:14:38.560 | you notice on the spine of the book,
00:14:42.040 | there is, it looks kind of like a castle
00:14:44.720 | or kind of like a house,
00:14:46.080 | and it's printed in copper.
00:14:47.800 | And that is the Copper Lodge.
00:14:50.640 | And maybe you have wondered what's the big deal?
00:14:53.680 | What's the deal with that?
00:14:55.280 | Well, here's the kind of the background.
00:14:57.840 | As leaders in Seas to Sea thought about ways
00:15:01.080 | to help our families build a culture of learning at home,
00:15:06.080 | as a family, our minds naturally turned to books.
00:15:10.400 | Most of us grew up loving books and loving to read
00:15:14.080 | and finding lots of value in that.
00:15:17.080 | Lots of us really loved reading
00:15:20.040 | with our families as little children.
00:15:22.760 | And a lot of us found it really sad
00:15:26.400 | when we encountered people
00:15:27.720 | that didn't have those same memories.
00:15:29.400 | It seemed especially sad
00:15:31.720 | that lots of families did not have a shared memory palace
00:15:36.720 | of stories and character quotes and poems
00:15:41.920 | that would unite them as a family
00:15:44.760 | around common experiences.
00:15:47.480 | So we began to curate storybooks
00:15:52.120 | and our own editions of classic novels and poetry
00:15:57.120 | so that people could collect them.
00:15:59.240 | And have something to read together as a family.
00:16:01.720 | And when it came time to choose a brand
00:16:04.600 | or what we call an imprint of our own,
00:16:08.360 | we landed on the Copper Lodge
00:16:10.400 | because that is what the Bortons family home is nicknamed.
00:16:15.400 | I don't know if you knew that or not.
00:16:18.560 | Lee and Robert live in a house
00:16:22.120 | that we all call the Copper Lodge.
00:16:24.080 | It's on a lake.
00:16:25.320 | There is a lot of copper in the hand railings
00:16:29.000 | of the stairs in Lee's house.
00:16:31.920 | And so Copper Lodge is what we landed on.
00:16:35.160 | It became a way for Lee to share books
00:16:39.080 | and stories that were important to her and her family.
00:16:43.600 | It was sort of like sharing books
00:16:47.120 | from her own library with you guys.
00:16:50.320 | And so that's how the Copper Lodge was born.
00:16:54.320 | It was out of a desire to share beloved stories
00:16:59.120 | and beloved books and poems with all of you.
00:17:03.440 | And I do think, Stephanie,
00:17:07.480 | that some of the dearest memories
00:17:10.240 | that our family has are around stories.
00:17:14.920 | Turns of phrases or pieces of dialogue
00:17:20.360 | that characters have or silly poems
00:17:23.960 | that we have made together.
00:17:25.760 | And for me, those are some of my dearest memories
00:17:29.800 | about stories.
00:17:31.240 | - Yeah, I would agree for sure.
00:17:35.000 | I love, yeah, just thinking about different books
00:17:38.480 | that we read together and even kind of extending
00:17:41.800 | to movies just with dialogue.
00:17:43.520 | Yeah, and funny songs and poems
00:17:48.320 | and even playing charades based on books that we knew.
00:17:53.480 | I remember acting out "Anne of Green Gables"
00:17:56.760 | with Kathleen, my cousin, who had a green blanket.
00:18:01.520 | And she was the one doing the charades
00:18:03.640 | and she draped the green blanket over her head
00:18:06.080 | and started crying.
00:18:06.920 | And I was like, "Oh, 'Anne of Green Gables,'
00:18:09.440 | that's when she dyes her hair green."
00:18:11.040 | And so just the way that common books can shape
00:18:16.040 | a lot of your life outside of just sitting and reading.
00:18:18.960 | - I know, I love it, I love it.
00:18:20.640 | And that, having family memories
00:18:24.400 | around a common experience of reading
00:18:27.200 | is one of the dearest experiences.
00:18:30.440 | And it is something that your children will take with them
00:18:33.840 | when they leave home and it'll be a dear warm spot.
00:18:36.960 | All right, some more behind the scenes stuff.
00:18:40.640 | Stephanie, you have worked on many
00:18:43.080 | of Copper Lodge Library offerings.
00:18:45.000 | What was the very first one?
00:18:46.720 | Do you remember what was the first Copper Lodge Library book
00:18:49.640 | you worked on?
00:18:51.120 | - So I think the very first one that I ever worked on
00:18:54.000 | was the "American Experience" storybook.
00:18:56.600 | But I actually don't know if that one
00:18:58.360 | or if "Tanglewood Tales" was published for it.
00:19:01.640 | - Ah-ha, let's see.
00:19:03.720 | - So they were right there together.
00:19:05.520 | And the "American Experience" storybook
00:19:07.640 | took so much longer to put together
00:19:09.680 | because it is a collection of different stories
00:19:11.640 | that we hunted down.
00:19:13.200 | So that's the first one that I worked on.
00:19:14.720 | But I wanna say maybe the "Tanglewood Tales"
00:19:17.040 | that's used in the "Challenge B" exposition strand
00:19:20.040 | might be the first one that saw the light of day.
00:19:23.320 | - You know what?
00:19:24.200 | I think you're right.
00:19:25.280 | I just, I was looking here on my shelf.
00:19:27.760 | I have both of them right here.
00:19:29.760 | And here is a cool thing.
00:19:31.440 | I think probably you did work on "Tanglewood Tales" first,
00:19:35.000 | but y'all, and I don't know if it's like this
00:19:37.320 | with the editions that come out now.
00:19:39.400 | On my copy of "Tanglewood Tales,"
00:19:42.400 | the Copper Lodge is not there.
00:19:45.120 | It is just CCMM as the imprint.
00:19:48.640 | But on my "American Experience" book,
00:19:51.080 | the Copper Lodge imprint is there on the spine.
00:19:53.600 | So I bet you're right that "Tanglewood" was first,
00:19:57.200 | but "Copper Lodge" library edition
00:20:00.400 | that has the first "Copper Lodge"
00:20:02.920 | might very well have been "American Experience."
00:20:06.440 | What did you like about working on,
00:20:09.040 | you said "American Experience" took a long time.
00:20:12.040 | What took so long?
00:20:14.400 | Well, because it is a collection of different stories,
00:20:17.440 | we had to find all of the stories that we wanted to include.
00:20:21.040 | So the first thing we did is we tried to decide
00:20:24.080 | on a list of characters from American history.
00:20:26.880 | And so then once we had narrowed down all the characters
00:20:29.880 | to the number that we could have,
00:20:31.640 | then we had to find stories that were either about them,
00:20:36.120 | preferably we actually wanted them
00:20:37.800 | to be written by the characters.
00:20:39.960 | We wanted, our number one goal
00:20:42.080 | was to find first person if possible,
00:20:45.080 | but they also needed to be in the public domain.
00:20:48.040 | So that mostly meant that they had to be pretty old
00:20:50.640 | and we wanted them to be at or below grade level reading
00:20:54.800 | because challenge B is not necessarily
00:20:56.960 | where we're trying to grow
00:20:59.160 | our biggest heart and literature muscles.
00:21:03.080 | Right, right.
00:21:04.560 | So yeah, with all of those considerations,
00:21:06.920 | like narrowing down the characters, finding the stories
00:21:09.400 | and then having them preferably be first person
00:21:12.040 | below grade level.
00:21:13.000 | And we wanted them to be positive and uplifting as well.
00:21:15.720 | So it was just hard to find stories
00:21:19.800 | that fit all of those qualifications.
00:21:21.520 | So it took a little while to assemble.
00:21:23.880 | Wow, and I guess that you probably,
00:21:27.520 | you probably rejected a lot of stories too.
00:21:32.840 | Yeah, some of them were just a little bit too long
00:21:37.200 | and it wasn't, there wasn't a good way to excerpt them
00:21:40.880 | and have it still be cohesive.
00:21:43.440 | Gotcha.
00:21:44.280 | Like I said, this is one of the first things
00:21:45.400 | I ever worked on.
00:21:46.280 | So this was very early in my career as a employee of CCMM.
00:21:51.280 | And so I wasn't really heavily involved with the choosing.
00:21:55.040 | I was kind of watching that process for this book
00:21:58.040 | and just watching everybody take into consideration
00:22:02.720 | different things and weigh options.
00:22:04.320 | And that was really a fun and helpful experience for me.
00:22:07.640 | Wow, so it sounds like you learned a lot about,
00:22:12.000 | well, about publishing,
00:22:14.880 | but about editing and what goes into creating an addition
00:22:21.120 | that people might really want to keep
00:22:25.160 | in their library forever.
00:22:26.640 | Yeah, I've learned a lot over this process.
00:22:32.960 | I think that's really cool.
00:22:34.080 | So behind the scenes path would be choosing the characters
00:22:39.080 | for a book like "American Experience",
00:22:41.520 | choosing the characters and then choosing their stories.
00:22:45.440 | 'Cause I suppose you could have picked any number of stories
00:22:48.720 | about George Washington.
00:22:50.080 | Yeah, I like that.
00:22:52.880 | So the stories are designed to be of a readable length
00:22:57.880 | for families, but also I really liked that,
00:23:01.000 | that you chose positive and uplifting stories.
00:23:05.400 | That's really cool.
00:23:07.880 | That's really cool.
00:23:09.440 | So here's a question that I have heard people ask before.
00:23:14.440 | Why is Classical Conversations reprinting books
00:23:22.720 | that already exist?
00:23:26.440 | Why do we need another edition of "The Secret Garden"
00:23:31.240 | or another edition of "Jane Eyre"?
00:23:35.080 | What is it?
00:23:36.240 | I guess what I really mean is what is it
00:23:39.240 | that make our Copper Lodge Library editions special?
00:23:44.040 | Yeah, so we have created this line
00:23:49.360 | with challenge families in mind specifically.
00:23:52.760 | So just kind of at every turn,
00:23:55.040 | if we could do something to make the reading experience
00:23:57.480 | either more comfortable or more hospitable,
00:24:00.920 | we would do that.
00:24:01.840 | So the books have a good margin size
00:24:05.240 | so that students can take notes in the book.
00:24:07.680 | They don't have to write like between the lines
00:24:10.480 | and in little corners.
00:24:11.440 | There's enough space they can have those conversations
00:24:13.800 | with the book.
00:24:14.640 | And they've got illustrations whenever possible
00:24:20.240 | to make them beautiful and give the imagination something
00:24:23.000 | to catch onto and just to break up the text a little bit.
00:24:26.000 | 'Cause I know for me as a student,
00:24:27.840 | if I have to read 10 pages of a book and then I do that
00:24:31.120 | and I realize that like one of the pages is an illustration,
00:24:34.160 | that's like, "Oh, it's a big space."
00:24:36.920 | It's like a little breather for the reader
00:24:39.720 | as well as being beautiful.
00:24:41.680 | Yes, that's for sure.
00:24:43.240 | And then the forewords and the introductions
00:24:46.480 | are written to help the students understand
00:24:49.680 | some of the themes, some of the historical context
00:24:52.600 | and give some reading tips.
00:24:54.520 | And with the books that have forewords,
00:24:56.480 | we're getting to hear from different team members of CCMM
00:25:00.600 | just what they love about the books.
00:25:02.680 | The forewords are the invitation to the reader
00:25:05.520 | to get them excited about reading this
00:25:07.520 | and maybe for the forward writer to share a little bit
00:25:10.480 | about how they found the book and what meant the most to them
00:25:14.000 | and what their experience was.
00:25:15.920 | And then we get into that introduction
00:25:17.280 | that tells a little bit more
00:25:18.280 | of the information side of things.
00:25:20.240 | So that's the historical context and themes to note.
00:25:23.920 | And then throughout the book, we have the footnotes.
00:25:27.240 | So those are for historical context, again,
00:25:30.400 | to just get in there in those moments
00:25:31.840 | where you might not understand something,
00:25:33.800 | but then also for word pronunciation and definitions.
00:25:37.640 | - Oh my gosh, that is so good.
00:25:40.280 | There are words that I had only ever read.
00:25:45.080 | And the first time, I can remember words like that.
00:25:49.240 | And the first time I would ever hear them spoken aloud,
00:25:54.240 | I didn't know what the word was.
00:25:56.080 | I didn't, like, there were words
00:25:57.440 | that was hard for me to connect
00:25:59.280 | with print and pronunciation.
00:26:02.080 | - Yes, yes.
00:26:02.920 | I think that's the curse of being an early reader.
00:26:06.200 | You know the words, but you don't know how to say them.
00:26:08.760 | And so that was something that I was very conscious of
00:26:11.480 | when getting to do the annotations for these books
00:26:14.000 | is that if I saw a word that I remembered
00:26:17.200 | not knowing how to pronounce,
00:26:18.840 | I would sometimes slip in there
00:26:20.080 | and just, let's just put that in there
00:26:21.480 | in case anybody else is in that same boat.
00:26:23.960 | - That is super hospitable.
00:26:25.800 | Yes, you have probably saved many a challenge student
00:26:28.720 | from being embarrassed in college.
00:26:30.480 | - Well, and sometimes I will double check words
00:26:33.960 | that I think I do now know how to say,
00:26:36.320 | but if I'm not 100% sure,
00:26:38.840 | I'll just look it up on Merriam-Webster.
00:26:40.400 | And there have been a couple of times
00:26:41.600 | that I realized that I was mispronouncing a word.
00:26:43.920 | - Isn't that most embarrassing?
00:26:45.560 | And you try to recreate all the times
00:26:47.520 | you might've said it and who might've said that too.
00:26:49.520 | And were they secretly laughing
00:26:50.800 | or did they not know either?
00:26:52.040 | So, oh, I love this.
00:26:55.240 | This is really good.
00:26:56.640 | So how is it, how do you go about creating the footnotes?
00:27:01.840 | 'Cause that seems to me to be
00:27:03.560 | something that you are excited about,
00:27:07.880 | you know, giving that historical context
00:27:09.840 | and given pronunciation and giving maybe even definitions
00:27:13.840 | of words that maybe are archaic
00:27:16.200 | or not, you know, what a typical eighth grader
00:27:19.440 | might go around using.
00:27:20.920 | - Yes, yes.
00:27:23.480 | So one thing with these public domain readers,
00:27:27.320 | so we're publishing books that are in the public domain.
00:27:29.480 | So that means that we can do
00:27:30.440 | these kinds of annotations to them.
00:27:32.240 | Sometimes there are a lot of different
00:27:34.560 | public domain sources out there.
00:27:36.760 | So our lovely coworker, Leslie,
00:27:39.080 | actually does research to find the ones
00:27:40.960 | that will be the most clear, well-respected.
00:27:44.280 | If there are changes in different editions,
00:27:46.160 | she'll kind of explore why.
00:27:47.840 | And then she's the one who does the research
00:27:49.440 | to find the public domain illustrations
00:27:51.480 | that we get to use as well.
00:27:53.440 | And during this process,
00:27:54.560 | sometimes she will find additions of the books
00:27:57.320 | that have some footnotes or some introductions
00:28:00.120 | or annotations that we can use.
00:28:01.920 | And so we'll compile that.
00:28:03.040 | So I usually try to get a pretty solid base
00:28:05.720 | of different sources that have some annotations already
00:28:09.600 | that I can use as my sort of sources of truth
00:28:12.600 | as I'm building this challenge-focused one.
00:28:15.920 | So once we get that base, thanks to Leslie,
00:28:19.080 | then I will usually just read the book.
00:28:22.160 | And if I can't quickly and confidently define a word,
00:28:26.000 | I will stop and usually footnote it.
00:28:28.960 | I do try to err on the side
00:28:31.160 | of having confidence in the readers
00:28:33.200 | because I don't wanna have too many footnotes
00:28:35.720 | and I also don't want to ever talk down to students.
00:28:38.600 | - Yes. - That's a pet peeve of mine.
00:28:40.280 | So, I mean, if I still can't define a word at 30,
00:28:44.480 | like having read a lot of these books
00:28:46.680 | and doing the footnotes,
00:28:48.040 | then I will go ahead and say,
00:28:48.880 | "It's very possible that we might need a note here."
00:28:50.800 | So I'll do that.
00:28:51.800 | And like I said before,
00:28:54.360 | if I'm confused about a pronunciation
00:28:57.240 | or if I'm wondering if I have it right,
00:28:59.400 | I will look it up and footnote it.
00:29:01.200 | If there's a proper noun that seems important,
00:29:04.560 | but I don't get the reference
00:29:06.640 | or if there's a quote used in the book,
00:29:09.000 | like it's quoting another source,
00:29:11.000 | I'll research that.
00:29:12.680 | If something contextual confuses me,
00:29:15.360 | I will research.
00:29:16.200 | And so these are just the things that I note as I read.
00:29:19.640 | And if anything gives me pause
00:29:21.040 | or I think I'm missing something,
00:29:22.840 | I'll do some digging and then put a footnote usually.
00:29:25.680 | - Gotcha, gotcha.
00:29:27.600 | Now, let me ask you this.
00:29:30.000 | What's the funniest footnote that you ever wrote?
00:29:33.840 | - Let's see.
00:29:35.720 | So some of them are a little bit,
00:29:37.800 | I don't know if I would go so far as to say snarky,
00:29:39.920 | but some of them are a little bit sarcastic.
00:29:42.480 | Not overly, but like sometimes those will be funny.
00:29:45.960 | I know there's one footnote
00:29:47.320 | in the "American Experience" storybook
00:29:49.320 | that it's a little footnote and it just says, "Wait for it."
00:29:53.600 | Because when I read the story, I was very confused
00:29:56.880 | because there's something that happens in the story
00:29:59.800 | that doesn't make any sense.
00:30:01.320 | And you wonder if you've missed something
00:30:03.000 | and I went back and reread it.
00:30:04.120 | But no, it's a little bit of a mystery
00:30:06.560 | or a funniness in the story
00:30:07.840 | that comes out like on the next page.
00:30:09.760 | And so, because I was so confused and taken aback
00:30:12.120 | and thought I was missing something,
00:30:13.960 | I do have a little footnote in there that says, "Wait for it."
00:30:16.160 | So that nobody else has that experience.
00:30:18.200 | They can know that they can just keep reading
00:30:20.320 | and it will make sense in a few words, 100 words.
00:30:23.200 | - That is so hilarious because I can imagine
00:30:27.720 | that there are many Challenge B students
00:30:31.640 | who are happy that you put that in there
00:30:34.200 | because they were probably thinking, "What in the world?
00:30:37.360 | Am I supposed to get this?"
00:30:39.640 | So I think that's great.
00:30:41.080 | I love it that you are still able
00:30:43.560 | to channel your inner Challenge B student
00:30:46.480 | when you are writing these annotations.
00:30:49.360 | That is awesome.
00:30:50.520 | Okay, a moment of true confession.
00:30:54.960 | Did you read footnotes as a student?
00:30:59.280 | - No, absolutely not.
00:31:00.600 | I didn't read the introductions as a student either.
00:31:02.800 | So it's kind of funny that I'm writing these things
00:31:05.760 | that I skipped as a kid.
00:31:07.480 | And because of that, if students also skip them,
00:31:10.680 | I don't know if I should say it,
00:31:11.560 | but it does not actually offend me.
00:31:13.640 | I get it. - Yes.
00:31:15.400 | - But I do think if you get stuck on a word,
00:31:18.800 | knowing that you can just glance down
00:31:20.480 | and not have to go look it up is helpful.
00:31:22.720 | You don't have to get derailed.
00:31:24.200 | So students can ignore them as much as they want to,
00:31:27.120 | but if they get curious or they are confused,
00:31:29.880 | it's just a little helping hand down there
00:31:31.640 | to help them not get derailed.
00:31:34.320 | - I love that, Stephanie.
00:31:35.560 | That is so honest.
00:31:37.640 | Yeah, 'cause I happen to know that that was not your,
00:31:40.240 | you did not, and I understand that.
00:31:42.360 | Like I never wanted to interrupt the flow of the story
00:31:46.880 | to go down to get a footnote.
00:31:49.120 | I just was like sucking in the story.
00:31:52.640 | It was just like inhaling the story.
00:31:54.840 | And so I didn't want anything to interrupt me.
00:31:58.560 | But, and so I appreciate you acknowledging
00:32:02.280 | that there may be other readers who do the very same thing,
00:32:06.280 | but I love your, not exactly an admonishment to us,
00:32:11.280 | but a reminder that the footnotes are there
00:32:15.480 | if we ever get into a pickle.
00:32:17.480 | That might have to be footnoted right there.
00:32:19.960 | If we ever get into a pickle and need help
00:32:23.360 | figuring something out,
00:32:24.960 | that the footnote is there to help us.
00:32:27.480 | Okay, so tell me.
00:32:28.680 | - One other thing.
00:32:29.520 | I will say that one of the reasons
00:32:31.480 | I hated reading introductions as a kid
00:32:33.120 | was that they had spoilers in it.
00:32:35.320 | So I can tell you that,
00:32:37.480 | we have some other folks
00:32:38.400 | who are gonna be writing introductions for us as well,
00:32:40.960 | but if it was written by me,
00:32:42.120 | it's not gonna have spoilers.
00:32:43.560 | So you can read your introduction
00:32:45.800 | and not be worried about it.
00:32:47.200 | - Oh my goodness.
00:32:48.280 | I think you should make that a rule
00:32:50.600 | that nobody else has a spoiler too.
00:32:53.480 | Oh, I never thought about that.
00:32:57.360 | And see, I'm probably telling myself,
00:32:59.120 | I frequently skip the introduction
00:33:01.400 | or I'll start reading the book
00:33:03.160 | before I read the introduction.
00:33:04.920 | And then a lot of times I do go back.
00:33:07.000 | Oh, wow.
00:33:09.480 | - I think sometimes it's helpful
00:33:10.560 | to maybe do it in like a sandwich fashion.
00:33:13.600 | Like you read the book
00:33:14.920 | and then you read the introduction
00:33:16.760 | before like your second read,
00:33:18.320 | if you can reread it.
00:33:19.880 | Because that way you can be sure
00:33:21.400 | you don't have any spoilers for yourself.
00:33:23.960 | And you might know more of what is being spoken about
00:33:26.720 | in the introduction.
00:33:27.560 | You can make the connections.
00:33:28.800 | And then when you do your second reading,
00:33:30.760 | having had it unpacked for you
00:33:32.760 | and pointed out in the introduction can help more.
00:33:35.480 | So I don't know.
00:33:36.320 | I mean, I'm a huge fan of reading books
00:33:37.760 | multiple times anyway.
00:33:38.600 | So I think that's something to consider as a possibility.
00:33:42.320 | - That is a lovely recommendation.
00:33:44.080 | I actually like that very much.
00:33:45.520 | I like that you brought up the whole idea
00:33:48.600 | that we can and probably should read books
00:33:52.600 | more than one time.
00:33:53.480 | I mean, if you love them and they're your friend,
00:33:56.120 | why would you not revisit them?
00:33:58.600 | But we get a lot more from our second reading.
00:34:01.560 | We glean new things.
00:34:03.840 | I love that idea.
00:34:04.800 | Okay, so that's what we should all start to do.
00:34:07.320 | If we don't want to give the time to the introduction
00:34:10.080 | on the first read,
00:34:11.360 | we should sandwich it between the first read
00:34:13.720 | and the second read.
00:34:15.120 | I like that.
00:34:16.800 | All right, so give me some ideas.
00:34:18.240 | If I am sitting at home thinking,
00:34:21.840 | oh, I might like to build our own family library.
00:34:26.840 | I could start now and I could add a classic every year
00:34:32.920 | or multiple ones every year.
00:34:35.240 | What are some of the Copper Lodge Library classics
00:34:38.880 | that are already out?
00:34:39.960 | If I want to start building my library now
00:34:43.280 | and I trust CC and I think I'm going to start
00:34:46.320 | with Copper Lodge books,
00:34:47.680 | what's out there for me to choose from?
00:34:50.720 | We have a really good spread right now
00:34:52.720 | and for a bunch of different ages, too.
00:34:55.200 | So we have the Uncle Paul readers, which are,
00:34:59.920 | I mean, they're really fun for every age,
00:35:01.360 | but they're aimed at scribblers.
00:35:03.000 | So that's sort of some science.
00:35:05.240 | We've got insects and natural science.
00:35:07.920 | And then the story of Rome, which is, as it sounds,
00:35:11.320 | the story of Rome in little short stories.
00:35:15.440 | There's also the Echoes trilogy
00:35:16.880 | that Jennifer Courtney curated and worked on,
00:35:19.880 | which are fairy tales and old stories
00:35:23.080 | that are sort of cultural foundations,
00:35:26.480 | stories that a lot of cultures have in common
00:35:28.640 | or that we hope they'll be able to have in common
00:35:31.080 | if we all get these books and read them.
00:35:33.080 | We've also got the American Experience Storybook
00:35:36.360 | and Tanglewood Tales that we've talked about.
00:35:38.480 | Some Challenge One literature.
00:35:40.080 | We have Walden or Life in the Woods by Thoreau.
00:35:43.200 | Some Emerson essays.
00:35:45.720 | We have the Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass
00:35:48.760 | and Up from Slavery by Booker T. Washington
00:35:51.680 | and The Scarlet Letter.
00:35:53.760 | And then this year we have The Secret Garden,
00:35:57.760 | Pride and Prejudice, and English Epic Poetry.
00:36:00.800 | And I think those are my favorite
00:36:02.920 | that I've ever gotten to work on so far,
00:36:04.440 | especially English Epic Poetry.
00:36:05.920 | So I would highly recommend those.
00:36:08.200 | - What did you like about the English Epic Poetry so much?
00:36:12.760 | And give me some samples of what's in there
00:36:16.840 | in case we're all sitting here thinking,
00:36:20.640 | what would an epic English poem be?
00:36:24.240 | - Right, so we've got the Canterbury Tales,
00:36:26.640 | Sir Gawain and the Green Knight,
00:36:28.680 | and then Paradise Lost.
00:36:31.120 | And I think it was, well, it was my favorite,
00:36:34.320 | partly because I just love Paradise Lost.
00:36:37.240 | That was one of my favorite things in college
00:36:38.800 | that I got to read.
00:36:39.800 | And I loved doing the annotations for that
00:36:43.360 | because I knew that Milton was brilliant
00:36:46.240 | going into this.
00:36:47.840 | But doing the research for the footnotes
00:36:49.800 | made me realize that he was brilliant on a level
00:36:52.600 | that I wasn't even aware was happening.
00:36:55.040 | This man will do like two different allusions
00:36:59.680 | in one sentence, not even a sentence, like one line.
00:37:04.120 | And it also is still moving the poem forward
00:37:08.000 | and it has some etymology allusions in it.
00:37:11.920 | I mean, he just packs so much into so little
00:37:16.680 | and it's just brilliant.
00:37:18.280 | And I hope, I mean, I know the footnotes
00:37:21.120 | only scratched the surface of what he was really doing.
00:37:23.360 | I tried, but I mean, he was way too brilliant.
00:37:26.600 | So yeah, that's just a super, super fun one, I think.
00:37:30.360 | Those are all good stories,
00:37:32.040 | like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight,
00:37:33.160 | Canterbury Tales, and Paradise Lost
00:37:34.960 | are all great stories on their own,
00:37:37.000 | but just getting a little tiny glimpse
00:37:39.600 | into how brilliant it actually is was so fun.
00:37:43.040 | - You know, that I think would be incredibly helpful
00:37:47.160 | to a student.
00:37:48.720 | It'd be a wonderful thing to have in a personal home library
00:37:52.480 | but for a student, it really sounds to me
00:37:55.520 | like our Challenge students will benefit so much
00:38:00.240 | from having these Copper Lodge Library editions
00:38:03.840 | as they're reading it for discussion in community.
00:38:07.920 | That's awesome.
00:38:08.760 | You make me want to go read Paradise Lost again,
00:38:11.640 | but only if I can have your footnotes while I do it.
00:38:14.880 | I think I wanna do that.
00:38:16.280 | Okay, so here's what I wanna ask you.
00:38:19.160 | There still are Copper Lodge editions coming out, right?
00:38:23.080 | We're not done.
00:38:23.920 | - Oh, yes, we're nowhere near finished.
00:38:25.880 | More awesome things coming in the future.
00:38:27.920 | One of my favorite books is eventually gonna come,
00:38:30.000 | so that'll be great.
00:38:31.320 | - And we just have to wait to find out what that is.
00:38:33.480 | - Yes, it's gonna be a surprise.
00:38:35.360 | - Okay, well, I guess I'll get to have you back
00:38:37.280 | to talk about that one when it comes out.
00:38:39.320 | - Yes.
00:38:40.160 | - All right, so here's my last question for you, my friend.
00:38:43.200 | What is your best tip for building a personal library?
00:38:48.200 | - I mean, just read, read a lot.
00:38:54.560 | Find out what you like.
00:38:56.360 | Go to your local library
00:38:58.320 | and see what you might want to have for your very own.
00:39:01.020 | Used bookstores are great as well.
00:39:05.760 | This is not just one tip, I just keep going,
00:39:07.520 | but read widely. - That's okay.
00:39:09.360 | - Because you never know,
00:39:10.800 | you might find some genres
00:39:11.960 | that you weren't expecting to like that you do.
00:39:13.680 | - Yes. - So read widely as well.
00:39:15.560 | I mean, buy Copper Lodge Library.
00:39:18.280 | We're doing some of the work for you.
00:39:20.160 | We're picking some books that we think are really good.
00:39:22.960 | - Yes, that, oh, I love that.
00:39:25.440 | You can trust us to get a good start
00:39:30.680 | on your classic home library.
00:39:32.680 | I love that.
00:39:34.880 | I like your tip, read widely, be adventurous.
00:39:39.440 | You're right, you don't know.
00:39:41.120 | You might think that you hate poetry,
00:39:45.080 | but you might discover that you love it.
00:39:47.960 | And parents, as you're building a library at home,
00:39:52.960 | put lots of different kinds of books in there.
00:39:56.760 | Not just fairy tales, not just children's poetry,
00:40:01.760 | but nonfiction books.
00:40:04.440 | And biographies, you never know
00:40:07.160 | what will catch the imagination of your child
00:40:09.920 | or what will catch the imagination of you
00:40:13.000 | as you're reading aloud to your child.
00:40:14.600 | So I love that.
00:40:15.440 | Be adventurous and try lots of different kinds of books.
00:40:19.760 | Stephanie, this has been great.
00:40:22.520 | I have loved picking your brain
00:40:25.080 | and finding out what is the process that you use
00:40:28.960 | as you guys are building the Copper Lodge Library series.
00:40:33.360 | I appreciate you sharing.
00:40:35.120 | It makes me want to go
00:40:37.280 | and get my copy of "American Experience"
00:40:39.960 | and find the "Wait for it" footnote.
00:40:43.280 | We found it.
00:40:45.040 | The Abraham Lincoln story, I believe.
00:40:46.600 | Okay, oh, thank you for that.
00:40:48.360 | Okay.
00:40:49.480 | Okay, extra value added listeners.
00:40:52.480 | The "Wait for it" footnote
00:40:54.880 | is in the Abraham Lincoln story in "American Experience."
00:40:59.880 | Thank you, Stephanie, for sharing with us.
00:41:02.360 | I really appreciate talking to somebody
00:41:04.920 | who loves books as much as I do.
00:41:07.360 | You're welcome.
00:41:08.200 | Thanks for having me.
00:41:09.720 | Listeners, I have something else to tell you
00:41:13.600 | about Everyday Educator.
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00:41:28.040 | That would be one way that you could communicate with us.
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00:41:34.920 | on Everyday Educator on Instagram.
00:41:37.440 | If you have questions,
00:41:40.960 | if there are topics that you would love
00:41:43.880 | for us to explore together,
00:41:46.240 | that might be a great way for you to let me know.
00:41:49.200 | I'm always looking for a way for us to learn together,
00:41:54.200 | and I would love your input on that.
00:41:55.960 | So check out, go to Instagram
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00:42:01.680 | And I will see you guys next week.
00:42:04.640 | (upbeat music)
00:42:07.240 | [BLANK_AUDIO]