Everyday Educator - Simply Advent: Read Together
00:00:00.000 | (soft music)
00:00:02.420 | - Welcome friends to this episode
00:00:07.000 | of the Everyday Educator podcast.
00:00:09.660 | I'm your host, Lisa Bailey,
00:00:11.320 | and I am excited to spend some time with you today
00:00:14.860 | as we encourage one another, learn together,
00:00:18.120 | and ponder the delights and challenges
00:00:21.000 | that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime.
00:00:24.520 | Whether you're just considering
00:00:26.680 | this homeschooling possibility
00:00:29.080 | or deep into the daily delight of family learning,
00:00:33.200 | I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.
00:00:36.760 | But don't forget,
00:00:38.160 | although this online community is awesome,
00:00:41.600 | you'll find even closer support in a local CC community.
00:00:46.600 | So go to classicalconversations.com
00:00:51.080 | and find a community near you today.
00:00:55.000 | Well, listeners, Merry Christmas.
00:00:58.880 | We are almost halfway through the month of December,
00:01:02.860 | and I know that your family
00:01:04.880 | is enjoying some time of Christmas celebration.
00:01:09.120 | Maybe your homeschool has taken a brief hiatus
00:01:12.720 | and you are enjoying some more family time
00:01:15.840 | and freedom together.
00:01:18.080 | I've got a suggestion for your family,
00:01:21.260 | for all of our families this Christmas.
00:01:24.480 | What if we intentionally spent time together
00:01:29.480 | doing the simplest things?
00:01:32.960 | What if we practice some simple habits
00:01:36.800 | designed to draw us to one another
00:01:40.040 | and to start meaningful conversations
00:01:42.920 | designed to provoke us to deeper thinking
00:01:47.160 | and to encourage us to true worship?
00:01:50.960 | What if in this season of busy,
00:01:55.660 | we celebrated Christmas by praying together,
00:02:00.440 | playing together, reading together,
00:02:04.320 | exploring together and serving together.
00:02:09.320 | This Advent season,
00:02:11.560 | the everyday educator wants to practice these habits
00:02:15.680 | along with you.
00:02:17.160 | So we're gonna talk to others who wanna try this plan too.
00:02:21.040 | So you can listen in every Tuesday
00:02:24.400 | to ponder the next verb.
00:02:27.520 | And today we're gonna be talking about read together.
00:02:32.520 | And I have a dear friend and fellow family reader,
00:02:38.720 | Tim Knotts with me today.
00:02:41.320 | Tim, thank you so much for coming on Everyday Educator.
00:02:45.160 | - I've been looking forward to it.
00:02:46.360 | Thanks, Lisa.
00:02:47.620 | - I love, Tim and I like to talk together.
00:02:49.800 | So we're gonna try to keep this conversation
00:02:52.600 | in the middle of the road and stick to our topic,
00:02:56.000 | which is really all about helping us as families
00:03:00.200 | simplify our Advent,
00:03:02.560 | getting the most wonder and celebration
00:03:07.360 | out of the time that we spend together
00:03:10.180 | without getting caught up in the whirl of busyness
00:03:15.960 | and ought tos and shoulds and fear of missing out
00:03:20.520 | when we look at what everybody else is doing.
00:03:22.360 | So, Tim, I wanna ask you first,
00:03:24.640 | what is it that you and your family love about Christmas?
00:03:29.640 | - We love lots of things.
00:03:31.960 | And I wish that I could say that I had all those answers
00:03:34.360 | to those great conundrums that you just posed, Lisa.
00:03:36.560 | - I know, right.
00:03:37.720 | - We're trying to figure it all out too,
00:03:40.520 | especially year by year as things change.
00:03:42.800 | But we love, I mean, we love all sorts of things,
00:03:46.760 | the traditions, the flavors, the stories, the family time,
00:03:51.760 | even sort of the balance of busyness
00:03:56.960 | and then followed by a little bit of rest after the holiday.
00:04:01.000 | It's all good in its own way.
00:04:03.720 | - Yeah, that is really true and super encouraging
00:04:07.140 | because if we have families who are thinking,
00:04:09.120 | oh, well, I go overboard maybe.
00:04:12.200 | Somebody might think I go overboard in the baking
00:04:14.880 | or overboard in the decorating and we like to be busy.
00:04:18.600 | Is there anything wrong with that?
00:04:20.760 | I think it's very wise reminder that you just gave us
00:04:23.560 | that it's okay to be busy and it's okay to rest
00:04:26.880 | and that perhaps the best way to celebrate
00:04:29.960 | is to find the balance there.
00:04:33.040 | Let me ask you this.
00:04:34.520 | I know that you guys are New Englanders.
00:04:37.160 | So are you exuberant celebrators,
00:04:41.500 | quiet celebrators or somewhere in between?
00:04:45.480 | - I think we have a mix in our family.
00:04:50.120 | Some of our children start celebrating Christmas
00:04:54.640 | anytime after the 4th of July.
00:04:57.760 | (laughing)
00:05:00.000 | And they know that they kind of have to celebrate it
00:05:03.380 | a little under the radar.
00:05:04.800 | And so there's some Christmas music listening that happens
00:05:08.480 | when adults aren't around. (laughing)
00:05:13.480 | I think we sort of swing into the season
00:05:18.140 | more around the Thanksgiving time like many families,
00:05:22.000 | some of us a little before and some of us a little after.
00:05:25.300 | But we definitely enjoy decorating and all the festivities
00:05:31.140 | and like to do it a little longer
00:05:34.820 | than just maybe the week of Christmas.
00:05:36.900 | - Gotcha, gotcha.
00:05:38.060 | I know our family, we also have that mix.
00:05:43.060 | We have that one child who refuses to entertain
00:05:48.220 | the notion of Christmas music until it's December.
00:05:51.900 | And so you have to be very under the radar
00:05:54.420 | if you're in her presence.
00:05:56.300 | And then I had friends that just mystified me
00:05:59.420 | because they waited until Christmas Eve
00:06:01.900 | to put up their Christmas tree.
00:06:03.320 | And December 26, by lunchtime, it was going back.
00:06:06.920 | Everything was taken down.
00:06:08.520 | And that was a mystery to me
00:06:10.780 | because my family loves Christmas
00:06:13.060 | and we pretty much take the whole month of December
00:06:16.040 | and celebrate.
00:06:17.760 | I'm sure that some people would feel that it was exuberant.
00:06:22.700 | I tell people I'm gonna keep doing it this way
00:06:25.300 | as long as it keeps making us happy and we can do it.
00:06:28.660 | So what are some of your favorite family traditions
00:06:32.900 | and how did they start?
00:06:34.860 | And I especially want to know which traditions
00:06:37.940 | were intentionally started by you and Cynthia
00:06:41.140 | and which were unintentionally repeated every year.
00:06:45.440 | - Yeah, so we grew up with pretty different traditions
00:06:50.420 | between us in our birth families.
00:06:53.420 | And it wasn't until probably our third child came along
00:06:57.900 | that we sat down and said,
00:06:59.460 | this sort of traveling back and forth
00:07:01.500 | and splitting time between grandparents every season,
00:07:05.540 | debating who's Thanksgiving it was
00:07:07.420 | and who's Christmas it was, kind of needed to stop.
00:07:10.320 | And we decided that at that point,
00:07:12.960 | we were going to have Christmas, at least as a rule,
00:07:16.180 | maybe not every single year,
00:07:19.300 | but as a general rule at our house.
00:07:22.300 | And that any of our family members
00:07:24.600 | would be welcome to join us.
00:07:25.940 | But with three and then four children,
00:07:29.100 | we said, it's time to make our own family traditions.
00:07:31.880 | And so we did, and we didn't start with very many,
00:07:36.420 | but we did decide that, yeah,
00:07:39.860 | that the Christmas tree should go up
00:07:41.480 | sometime in that week or two after Thanksgiving.
00:07:44.260 | And that we would have our Christmas present opening
00:07:49.260 | on Christmas morning,
00:07:53.100 | which is different than the way I grew up
00:07:55.700 | where we opened ours on Christmas Eve.
00:07:58.560 | - My family too, when I was growing up.
00:08:00.940 | Yeah, family presents for Christmas Eve.
00:08:03.100 | - And so there were some sort of concessions
00:08:04.940 | back and forth about what we would do and how we do it.
00:08:07.500 | And then some other ones though, they sprung up over time.
00:08:11.040 | One Christmas, I saw a delicious sounding recipe
00:08:13.940 | for orange rolls.
00:08:16.080 | So they're made like cinnamon rolls,
00:08:17.780 | but they're done with orange instead of cinnamon.
00:08:21.060 | And I made them and from then on the kids insisted
00:08:23.420 | that that was part of our Christmas tradition.
00:08:26.160 | - Right, anything they love and you do once becomes a,
00:08:30.340 | well, we always do that.
00:08:31.800 | - So I think a couple of years later,
00:08:33.240 | I mentioned maybe doing something different
00:08:34.880 | and they all protested that no,
00:08:37.100 | orange rolls have been part of our tradition
00:08:39.680 | from time immemorial, we must have these orange rolls.
00:08:43.880 | So it is funny how some of them were choices
00:08:47.280 | and others were happenstance,
00:08:49.760 | but have become beloved parts
00:08:51.660 | of our family tradition anyway.
00:08:54.020 | - I love that, I love that.
00:08:56.560 | I think that kids love repetition
00:09:00.940 | and we see that in the way we teach our children classically,
00:09:03.960 | but I think they love traditions.
00:09:05.700 | And I know there were things that my girls,
00:09:08.800 | if it happened once and they really liked it,
00:09:12.380 | that they act like, well, of course,
00:09:14.680 | we're always gonna do it that way.
00:09:16.380 | We still have the same Christmas night meal
00:09:20.820 | that we had happenstance one time when they were little
00:09:25.160 | because it was really cold
00:09:27.020 | and I had the makings of chicken and dumplings.
00:09:29.420 | And so it has become,
00:09:30.960 | and of course we're having that on Christmas night, so.
00:09:34.240 | - Well, it sounds like a delicious tradition.
00:09:36.640 | - It's a very fun one and I do like them.
00:09:38.960 | Do your kids love all your traditions
00:09:42.480 | or are there some that they just tolerate,
00:09:45.180 | especially as they grow into teenagers?
00:09:47.880 | - I think most of the traditions
00:09:51.420 | are ones that they're pretty okay with.
00:09:54.180 | I think we've tried to not impose too many
00:09:56.720 | that are onerous or too much of an investment
00:10:01.720 | so that they stay relatively fresh and content with those.
00:10:09.060 | I mean, there are some that some love more than others.
00:10:11.500 | I think many of them protest
00:10:14.600 | that we take down our Christmas tree around New Year's
00:10:17.440 | and they would love to see it stay up
00:10:19.780 | until it becomes a certain fire hazard
00:10:23.240 | instead of only a fire hazard.
00:10:25.180 | So yeah, we definitely have some that are less popular,
00:10:31.680 | but for the most part,
00:10:34.720 | we try to keep the ones that are meaningful
00:10:39.100 | and not just ones that are traditions for tradition's sake.
00:10:41.700 | - Yes, yes.
00:10:43.140 | And finding the meaning in each of those traditions
00:10:45.960 | can sometimes help a family member
00:10:50.040 | who's not as partial to a tradition
00:10:52.900 | if they just know why you love it so much.
00:10:56.120 | That sometimes will invest that tradition
00:11:00.180 | with a little more importance
00:11:02.480 | even for the one who didn't choose it.
00:11:05.120 | Okay, I know we're gonna talk about how to simplify advent
00:11:09.600 | and with one of those scribblers verbs, read together.
00:11:13.400 | And I know that you guys are a big
00:11:16.540 | read aloud together family all the times,
00:11:21.480 | not just during the holidays.
00:11:23.380 | So what is it, Tim, that makes you and Cynthia
00:11:26.380 | so dedicated to reading aloud together?
00:11:30.280 | - Oh, there are a lot of reasons.
00:11:34.020 | I think a few of the most important ones
00:11:36.760 | are sort of going from the most evident
00:11:40.960 | is that there's content in those books
00:11:43.900 | that's important that I want my children
00:11:46.420 | and my family to be aware of and to be reminded of.
00:11:50.460 | So that's sort of dictates some of what we read.
00:11:55.140 | There's a cultural context that comes about too.
00:11:57.660 | Like as we read books from different times and eras
00:12:00.840 | that talk about different things.
00:12:02.500 | But a lot of them are because they're good opportunities
00:12:07.940 | for conversation when you run into a conflict
00:12:12.060 | or you run into a feeling in a book
00:12:15.820 | that you want to talk about
00:12:18.240 | because children need to learn sometimes
00:12:22.500 | how to talk about their feelings
00:12:24.380 | or how to talk about their experiences
00:12:26.200 | and to do it in the context of a book
00:12:30.620 | instead of in their quote unquote real life
00:12:34.860 | is a safer place to do that.
00:12:37.520 | - Yep, yeah, it is a great way
00:12:41.020 | to develop a moral imagination
00:12:43.820 | and to deal with, as you said,
00:12:47.700 | subjects that maybe hopefully our children
00:12:51.260 | will never experience firsthand
00:12:54.680 | but that they need to know how to deal with
00:12:57.560 | or think about, contemplate, be prepared to address
00:13:02.360 | should it ever arise.
00:13:04.020 | Yeah, that's really good.
00:13:05.520 | - The last reason that I'll share
00:13:09.180 | is that we think it's really important
00:13:12.320 | that they understand the importance of reading good books
00:13:15.700 | and that we show that to them
00:13:17.980 | by not just telling them about it
00:13:20.500 | or letting them see us do it
00:13:22.580 | but by doing it together with them.
00:13:25.140 | - Yeah, it shows them that it's important enough
00:13:28.580 | for you guys to spend family time on.
00:13:32.540 | That's how important it is.
00:13:35.100 | Does reading together affect your family's mood?
00:13:40.100 | - It can.
00:13:41.300 | I don't think it's a panacea, right?
00:13:43.100 | It doesn't solve every problem.
00:13:46.100 | There are times when I just am totally invested
00:13:50.820 | and want to sit down and snuggle up and read with my kids
00:13:54.740 | and they're not feeling it.
00:13:57.240 | And that can create some conflict sometimes
00:14:02.240 | where we have to sort out what's going on
00:14:05.540 | and why aren't they interested in this right now.
00:14:08.820 | And sometimes it's a good check on my heart
00:14:11.380 | 'cause I can get frustrated and feel like,
00:14:15.020 | hey, I've set aside this time out of my busy schedule,
00:14:17.500 | you can at least make some moments for me.
00:14:19.920 | But overall, I would say once we do get to it,
00:14:27.820 | it is such a good resetting.
00:14:30.860 | It's a good opportunity for us to all be quiet
00:14:33.060 | and to be together, to laugh together sometimes
00:14:37.940 | or to wrestle a little bit with a passage or an idea.
00:14:42.940 | And sometimes they're excited to keep reading
00:14:46.220 | and sometimes they're ready to be done.
00:14:48.660 | And I think gauging that mood as a parent is important.
00:14:53.660 | And it's a good practice for me,
00:14:55.820 | especially since I'm not the primary homeschooling parent,
00:14:58.140 | my wife is.
00:14:59.220 | And so for me to be engaged with my kids like that
00:15:02.580 | in at least a semi-academic setting helps me make sure
00:15:06.940 | that I keep a pulse on where they're at and where they're at.
00:15:10.180 | It helps me make sure that I keep a pulse on where they are
00:15:13.460 | and that I'm being attentive to their needs.
00:15:18.220 | - Right, and you get to see how they're growing
00:15:20.980 | and their ability to consider big questions
00:15:23.500 | or how they're processing or what's interesting to them.
00:15:27.660 | That's a really good, good point, Tim.
00:15:30.140 | It keeps families kind of on the same page,
00:15:33.860 | knowing each other.
00:15:35.820 | I know I'm very familiar with what you're describing
00:15:39.700 | that sometimes the kids are just not as interested
00:15:44.060 | in investing in that family read-aloud time
00:15:46.980 | as we are for whatever reason.
00:15:48.740 | I mean, who knows why sometimes.
00:15:51.640 | But I agree with you that it's a good reset time.
00:15:55.420 | And it does draw our hearts together.
00:15:58.620 | It does give us shared memories and a shared investment
00:16:03.620 | in a story or a hymn or a passage of scripture,
00:16:09.520 | whatever we're reading, we've got a shared investment
00:16:13.260 | in the group thoughts that developed as we read.
00:16:18.260 | Yeah, I like that.
00:16:20.020 | - You're right on that there's that sort of unifying thing
00:16:24.440 | that happens as we're all thinking
00:16:26.220 | some of the same thoughts after an author.
00:16:29.320 | And I love that idea of the fact that it doesn't have to be
00:16:32.220 | you're pulling out a novel or Russian history or something,
00:16:37.740 | that it can be a lovely little book of poems
00:16:41.300 | or a contemplation of scripture or hymns.
00:16:46.300 | - Yeah, yeah, I like that.
00:16:49.160 | I really like that.
00:16:50.080 | Is it hard for y'all to make time to read together
00:16:53.700 | during the holidays?
00:16:55.040 | Do you ever feel like you're just too busy
00:16:56.840 | to sit down and do that?
00:16:58.780 | - Not just the holidays.
00:17:00.200 | (laughing)
00:17:01.040 | - All the time.
00:17:02.200 | - Yeah, I mean, it is.
00:17:03.340 | It's always a struggle to find that set aside time.
00:17:08.260 | I tend to try to do it around a meal time in our family
00:17:13.260 | because we are together.
00:17:17.620 | It doesn't always work.
00:17:21.320 | Sometimes there's too much.
00:17:22.540 | Sometimes it's just bad timing.
00:17:24.460 | Sometimes they're not in a place to give it their attention
00:17:27.400 | and we have to find another time.
00:17:31.120 | But trying to find that regularity of this is a time
00:17:36.120 | when we do this sort of thing.
00:17:38.620 | And like we talked about earlier,
00:17:40.960 | kids like to know what the pattern is.
00:17:44.820 | And so if they know that the pattern is,
00:17:46.580 | we spend some read aloud time, maybe not every day,
00:17:48.780 | but our typical read aloud time is around the meal
00:17:52.780 | when we're all at the table anyway.
00:17:54.780 | - Right, you just expect to stay a little longer.
00:17:57.340 | - Yeah, yeah.
00:17:58.780 | - I know when our girls were really little,
00:18:00.700 | we had a read aloud time ranged around sleeping time.
00:18:05.660 | So like right before nap time and right before bedtime.
00:18:09.700 | And as they got older, there were no more nap times
00:18:13.620 | and everybody's bedtime was different.
00:18:16.200 | And so I know that we did some,
00:18:19.440 | we did some times where we would read on Sunday afternoons
00:18:25.260 | or Sunday evenings by default,
00:18:27.340 | kind of as a way to start head into the week together
00:18:32.340 | on the same page.
00:18:34.340 | So I think you just have to find what works for your family.
00:18:39.540 | - Our church has been meeting in the afternoons
00:18:42.880 | because of some facility issues.
00:18:45.100 | And so Sunday mornings are a really nice time
00:18:49.100 | for us to have some family time.
00:18:49.940 | - Oh, that's a sweet time, yeah, yeah.
00:18:52.820 | So how do you think, think with me a little bit about this
00:18:56.140 | 'cause I've been trying to think of ways to help families
00:18:59.320 | simplify their Advent routines,
00:19:04.320 | but deepen their joyful expression of the holiday.
00:19:09.200 | So how might reading together simplify the celebration
00:19:13.460 | of Advent while deepening our joy?
00:19:18.320 | - Yeah, I mean, it's an easy time of year
00:19:23.300 | to have your attentions and even your affections
00:19:27.300 | drawn in so many different directions.
00:19:29.620 | Gift giving and shopping is a beautiful thing,
00:19:35.780 | but it can take over your life
00:19:37.660 | when you're spending all your hours,
00:19:39.200 | either at the store or cruising around the Amazon website.
00:19:43.260 | And the decorating of the house is also a good thing,
00:19:50.400 | but when it's, and now it's this window
00:19:53.680 | and now it's the Christmas tree and now it's the front yard
00:19:56.800 | and it can just all take over.
00:20:00.240 | And while there's parts that give joy,
00:20:04.440 | there's also things that can eventually steal joy.
00:20:07.200 | So I think having that time and being intentional
00:20:13.140 | about what are your readings,
00:20:15.780 | what are you gonna be doing together
00:20:18.940 | can help define that center again as a family
00:20:23.420 | to help you at least daily
00:20:27.060 | or as often as you're able to do it
00:20:28.980 | to come together around the thing that's the center
00:20:31.620 | and not all the other stuff that's good,
00:20:35.520 | but not the middle.
00:20:36.640 | Even those traditions we talked about earlier,
00:20:41.660 | they're good, but if you lose sight of Advent and Christmas
00:20:47.660 | because of all the family traditions,
00:20:50.300 | then they've sort of taken a bad place
00:20:55.100 | even if they're a good thing.
00:20:56.700 | - Yeah, yes, yes, that's exactly it, that's exactly it.
00:21:01.700 | So many of our traditions are fun
00:21:04.620 | and there's nothing wrong with them.
00:21:06.900 | But if we get so frenzied in the production
00:21:10.540 | that we don't enjoy the activity
00:21:13.060 | or don't enjoy the company,
00:21:14.500 | the people that we're doing it with,
00:21:17.940 | we've lost some of the reason for doing it
00:21:22.380 | and it's not helping us to celebrate anymore.
00:21:26.660 | So what kinds of things do you guys read together?
00:21:30.900 | And I mean, you can tell us generally,
00:21:36.320 | but also are there certain things
00:21:38.720 | that you read aloud every year together?
00:21:43.360 | - Mm-hmm, so I mean, I tend to read stories to my kids,
00:21:48.360 | whether they're in the form of a novel
00:21:53.720 | or short stories or children's books,
00:21:57.860 | that's where I focus a lot of my reading
00:22:03.160 | in the read aloud sense.
00:22:04.680 | Cynthia reads them different things,
00:22:07.640 | so they get a variety from the two of us.
00:22:12.360 | But this time of year, we definitely try to pick out
00:22:15.640 | like a devotional guide that works our way
00:22:19.260 | through Advent ideas so that we don't,
00:22:22.960 | so we make sure that we're covering all the main ideas
00:22:27.960 | and that we're not focusing too much on one thing
00:22:30.360 | and leaving out other things
00:22:31.420 | that we should be talking about.
00:22:33.020 | And so sometimes those sort of daily Advent guides
00:22:36.980 | can be a help, but it's also though important
00:22:41.320 | not to feel like they're the master
00:22:43.080 | and you're the servant and you have to,
00:22:45.100 | like, hey kids, we have to do this.
00:22:48.280 | Rain or something, whether we got the time or not,
00:22:50.800 | we're gonna grind it out.
00:22:53.760 | So there is even in that finding that balance
00:22:57.920 | of sometimes we just touch on it
00:22:59.760 | and we don't read the whole thing for a day
00:23:03.640 | or we miss a day and we have to do a little catch up
00:23:05.520 | and being flexible with ourselves
00:23:07.680 | and with our family life this time of year is also important.
00:23:11.520 | - I know that there are times when,
00:23:14.620 | 'cause we've done that too, Advent devotional things.
00:23:18.460 | And then there's some days that just don't,
00:23:21.720 | I mean, they kind of left my kids cold.
00:23:25.520 | They didn't really have anything to put into it.
00:23:29.580 | It didn't strike a specific chord with them.
00:23:32.160 | And then there were days when for some reason,
00:23:36.980 | they found deep application
00:23:39.540 | from that particular day's reading.
00:23:41.500 | And so we spent tons more time than we did the day before.
00:23:45.620 | And I think we have to be prepared for that as parents
00:23:48.120 | that everything won't resonate with everybody every year.
00:23:52.720 | - Yeah.
00:23:54.420 | So there are things,
00:23:56.320 | apart from trying to pick a devotional guide,
00:23:59.440 | there are other things that we also bring back
00:24:02.480 | year after year.
00:24:04.220 | I wouldn't say that all of them are in every year thing
00:24:07.000 | 'cause there are some years
00:24:08.380 | that some of them get a bit crowded out.
00:24:10.720 | But we try, I always read them, Charles Dickens,
00:24:17.240 | the Christmas Carol, either the full version,
00:24:21.260 | which is pretty lengthy for a seasonal read aloud.
00:24:25.540 | And especially for littler kids.
00:24:27.420 | But he actually wrote his own abridged version
00:24:31.460 | for public readings.
00:24:32.940 | - Oh, you know what, I don't think I have that.
00:24:36.060 | - And so that's a great choice
00:24:38.040 | because it is just enough shorter
00:24:40.540 | that it's a little more manageable for younger kids
00:24:45.540 | or for a busier family to read.
00:24:48.160 | I always read them, Oh Henry's Gift of the Magi.
00:24:53.280 | And we always read The Best Christmas Pageant Ever.
00:24:57.960 | Those are sort of our books
00:25:01.220 | that come around year after year.
00:25:03.700 | There's poetry and hymns.
00:25:05.620 | Of course, scripture, the scriptural stories
00:25:09.980 | are central to what we encounter.
00:25:13.640 | Often repetitively, right?
00:25:17.620 | And that's okay.
00:25:19.060 | That they hear those verses, that they hear those stories
00:25:22.020 | more than one time in a season
00:25:23.900 | is actually a really good thing.
00:25:25.980 | - Yeah, I can remember.
00:25:29.900 | I can remember when I was growing up,
00:25:32.500 | and this will probably date me,
00:25:37.020 | the Charlie Brown Christmas Special was fairly new.
00:25:40.220 | I mean, it hadn't been around forever, like it has now.
00:25:45.020 | And I loved it, it was my favorite one.
00:25:47.460 | And I can remember the year I suddenly discovered
00:25:51.940 | that I could recite that Luke 2 passage
00:25:55.520 | that Linus recites in the cartoon special.
00:26:00.420 | And so I can, to this day when I read it aloud,
00:26:04.800 | I can sort of hear Linus's sweet little voice
00:26:07.520 | reading it in my head.
00:26:09.900 | But I think that anything that our children hear
00:26:14.760 | over and over when they're really young
00:26:18.340 | makes a great impression on them.
00:26:20.880 | And so, yeah, I agree with you.
00:26:22.400 | There are things that we want to read
00:26:24.400 | more than once a season,
00:26:26.800 | because we want it to take root in our children's hearts.
00:26:30.620 | So if somebody asks you,
00:26:35.840 | I want you, Tim, to help me design a reading program
00:26:43.940 | for celebrating Christmas deeply yet simply,
00:26:48.380 | what would you suggest?
00:26:50.100 | You mentioned the things that you guys read every year,
00:26:53.720 | A Christmas Carol, why do you read that every year?
00:26:58.720 | - Well, Dickens, his writing there shapes so much
00:27:05.640 | of how we think about Christmas as Western Christians.
00:27:10.640 | Since he wrote it, it's been so,
00:27:15.100 | so much has changed because of his writing
00:27:21.980 | in the way that we think about Christmas.
00:27:23.960 | So I think it's important historically.
00:27:26.620 | And again, it gives such a good avenue
00:27:31.080 | for some good conversation about past and present and future
00:27:36.080 | and what does it mean to be a good person,
00:27:43.360 | which is a good conversation to have,
00:27:47.120 | even though that itself is not gospel.
00:27:51.520 | - Hopefully then opens the further door
00:27:53.660 | to the conversation about, is that good enough?
00:27:56.660 | Right, is being a good person good enough?
00:27:59.500 | - Yes.
00:28:01.120 | - Is Scrooge saved at the end or is he just improved?
00:28:05.120 | - Oh my goodness, yes.
00:28:07.180 | See, those are the kind of deep conversations
00:28:09.720 | that people don't always see coming
00:28:12.780 | when they read a story or a novel.
00:28:15.320 | And maybe they don't think about the fact
00:28:17.300 | that that's a conversation you could have with your child
00:28:20.440 | that would make them stop and think.
00:28:22.620 | And you come to it, like you said earlier, Tim,
00:28:27.080 | through the experience of a character.
00:28:29.240 | So you're not finger-pointing at somebody they know,
00:28:33.720 | somebody in their family or in their neighborhood
00:28:36.200 | or in their church, but you're helping them
00:28:38.400 | to consider larger questions because they came up
00:28:42.480 | in the life of a character in a read-aloud.
00:28:45.000 | - Right, or like I said, we read O. Henry's
00:28:48.400 | Gift of the Magi, and in that one,
00:28:51.500 | you have the chance to talk about the cost of a gift.
00:28:56.500 | And obviously, this time of year, our kids think about that
00:29:02.480 | as they decide how much of their little savings
00:29:08.040 | they want to spend on giving gifts.
00:29:10.320 | And it's, again, a beautiful open door
00:29:16.440 | for talking about the gospel
00:29:18.680 | and what did it cost God to send Jesus.
00:29:22.160 | And that that's a free gift for us to receive,
00:29:27.400 | but it wasn't a free gift for him to give.
00:29:30.100 | - Yes, yes.
00:29:33.080 | And that's the kind of simple but deep celebrations
00:29:38.080 | I think a lot of us long to have as a family.
00:29:45.160 | So if someone were to ask me where to start
00:29:47.600 | because not everybody's gonna dive in with Dickens
00:29:50.520 | or even a devotional guide because some of those are good
00:29:55.520 | and some of them are not so good
00:29:57.660 | and they take some investment to follow along with them,
00:30:01.040 | I would say start with the scriptures,
00:30:03.000 | start with the real source material.
00:30:06.480 | You know, those first few chapters of Matthew
00:30:10.240 | and Luke and John are so full of wonderful things
00:30:14.760 | to talk about that that's a great place.
00:30:19.760 | I mean, even if you just read them a couple of times
00:30:23.280 | through your week and cement that as part,
00:30:28.280 | like you said, of hearing Linus in their head,
00:30:31.880 | but hopefully it's not Linus,
00:30:33.080 | hopefully it's their parents' voice
00:30:34.200 | that they hear reading those stories.
00:30:36.040 | And with some older kids,
00:30:39.200 | I think it would be really fun to approach those
00:30:43.920 | and look at your little cross-reference notes in your Bible
00:30:46.800 | and then go have a scavenger hunt in the Old Testament
00:30:49.440 | for places where it talks about the coming of Jesus
00:30:51.920 | and look at those prophecies.
00:30:53.580 | You don't need a devotional guide to read your Bible
00:30:58.400 | and to get into helping our students understand that.
00:31:02.360 | And then adding a Christmas carol or two,
00:31:09.600 | and especially some of the ones
00:31:10.800 | that they might not be so familiar with,
00:31:13.640 | I love, love, love, love those old, old hymns
00:31:17.760 | that we only ever sing around this time of year
00:31:22.000 | and some of our churches never sing,
00:31:23.720 | like, "Of the Father's love begotten,"
00:31:26.520 | or, "Let all mortal flesh keep silence,"
00:31:29.720 | or, "Now who was to rich beyond all splendor?"
00:31:33.520 | These beautiful old hymns that have glorious words
00:31:37.920 | and think deeply on the incarnation
00:31:41.760 | and picking apart one of those and listening to it
00:31:46.080 | over and over makes it part of a Christmas tradition
00:31:51.080 | and makes us, as well as our children, better thinkers
00:31:56.160 | about the ideas of Christmas
00:32:00.120 | instead of just the traditions of Christmas.
00:32:02.880 | - I love that, Tim, I really do.
00:32:05.720 | I know, I love Christmas music,
00:32:10.360 | Christmas music, even the same old, same old hymns
00:32:14.880 | that we always sing at church for Christmas.
00:32:19.400 | But I remember as a teenager,
00:32:23.560 | because I had always loved the hymns before,
00:32:28.240 | I remember one Sunday as a teenager
00:32:30.640 | when I was preoccupied with something
00:32:32.680 | that was going on in my family
00:32:34.280 | and I realized this thing that I'd always loved,
00:32:38.720 | I was just on autopilot
00:32:40.600 | and I wasn't thinking about the words at all.
00:32:42.720 | I was missing, and it came to me, I am missing it.
00:32:46.560 | I am missing what's important about this.
00:32:50.280 | I'm not thinking about the words.
00:32:52.200 | I'm not letting the words draw my spirit to the Lord's.
00:32:56.640 | And ever since then, it has been important to me
00:33:00.560 | to think about the words.
00:33:02.440 | And sometimes I will, in my devotions,
00:33:04.800 | just read Christmas hymns
00:33:08.600 | and it can be very profoundly moving
00:33:12.160 | when you're not just moving your mouth to the tune
00:33:16.640 | that you're really thinking about the words.
00:33:19.000 | I like that suggestion.
00:33:21.360 | - Yeah, and some other ways to sort of expand
00:33:25.240 | from that core of scripture itself.
00:33:28.360 | The Hallelujah Guide, which is written by Cindy Rollins,
00:33:35.080 | is a lovely devotional.
00:33:38.000 | It looks at the Advent season
00:33:40.320 | through the lens of Handel's Messiah.
00:33:42.400 | And so I would commend the guide to you.
00:33:47.400 | It's a good one for sort of wrapping in some stories
00:33:51.320 | and some poetry and some hymns,
00:33:53.440 | along with the part looking at the great master work
00:33:58.440 | by Handel.
00:34:00.000 | But even that, putting that music on,
00:34:04.160 | because its words are nothing but scripture.
00:34:07.840 | And it's a beautiful thing to meditate on
00:34:11.200 | and to fill your home with a beautiful music as well.
00:34:14.200 | - Yeah, yeah, I can remember.
00:34:17.120 | David and I used to love,
00:34:20.080 | we used to go to a live performance of Messiah every year
00:34:24.640 | when we were in college
00:34:26.160 | and when we would come back home to visit that area.
00:34:30.120 | And so we loved it, and we found a young Messiah recording
00:34:35.120 | that we enjoyed, and we played it for the girls.
00:34:39.720 | And so they grew up thinking of that as Christmas music.
00:34:44.720 | And the funniest thing to me was when my grandson,
00:34:50.040 | who's now almost 18 months old, was really little.
00:34:53.760 | I was at my daughter and son-in-law's home one day
00:34:57.640 | and Gideon was just all upset.
00:35:01.920 | And so my daughter said, "Well, play his calming music,
00:35:06.920 | go turn on the calming music, turn on the calming music."
00:35:10.480 | And it was Messiah.
00:35:12.240 | And I said, "Oh my gosh, you're playing Messiah
00:35:15.240 | for this baby?"
00:35:16.720 | And my daughter said, "You know what?
00:35:18.480 | It's the only thing that calms him down."
00:35:21.160 | And so music can speak to the heart
00:35:25.040 | of our very youngest family members.
00:35:29.080 | And so I really like that suggestion.
00:35:32.360 | It resonates with me, Tim.
00:35:35.360 | - Yeah, and then the last thing I would add is
00:35:37.560 | as you're doing some of those school activities, right?
00:35:42.440 | The academic stuff,
00:35:44.800 | finding some ways to incorporate those hymns and music,
00:35:49.480 | even there, some of our old friends in Christmas hymns
00:35:55.440 | come from Latin texts.
00:35:57.040 | So you get, "O come, O come, Emmanuel," right?
00:36:00.400 | Is, "O come, O come, Emmanuel,"
00:36:03.120 | or, "O come, all ye faithful," right?
00:36:06.000 | "Adeste Fidelis."
00:36:07.920 | You can take those and do some exercises,
00:36:11.400 | some Latin work, but do it in a way
00:36:13.840 | that's going to bless your thinking as well, right?
00:36:17.920 | You're thinking about the season
00:36:19.120 | and not just your ability to do some translation.
00:36:24.040 | I love it.
00:36:25.240 | I love it.
00:36:26.680 | Tie your work to your faith and your celebration.
00:36:30.520 | That makes all of it better.
00:36:32.560 | - We're doing that just the other morning
00:36:34.680 | with, "O come, O come, Emmanuel,"
00:36:36.240 | looking at the chorus, right?
00:36:38.040 | That in English says, "Rejoice, rejoice."
00:36:42.400 | "Emmanuel shall come to thee, O Israel," right?
00:36:45.760 | But in Latin, it's, "Gaudae, Gaudae."
00:36:50.640 | And then the word for, "will come," in English,
00:36:55.000 | is actually, "nascetur,"
00:36:56.280 | which is a passive voice for being born, right?
00:37:01.280 | So it's echoing that great verse, right?
00:37:06.720 | That, "For unto us a child is born."
00:37:09.640 | And so you can make these lovely connections
00:37:13.120 | and it doesn't have to be a big production.
00:37:15.600 | You don't have to have lots of guides.
00:37:17.480 | Sometimes it's just looking at the words themselves
00:37:21.360 | and wondering at the marvelous things that God has done.
00:37:25.720 | - Oh, that's beautiful.
00:37:27.080 | I'm gonna go.
00:37:27.920 | I'm gonna go and look that up myself.
00:37:30.000 | I think that's what David and I will be doing
00:37:31.680 | at suppertime tonight.
00:37:32.800 | That's a great suggestion.
00:37:34.480 | Okay, last question for you, Tim, before we go.
00:37:38.120 | If you asked your kids,
00:37:41.000 | what would their favorite read-alouds be at Christmas time?
00:37:46.840 | - Well, they really do love
00:37:48.160 | when we read the best Christmas pageant ever.
00:37:50.440 | That's definitely near the top of their lists.
00:37:53.400 | The Night Before Christmas, the poem,
00:37:57.040 | my parents recorded for them
00:38:01.320 | one of those audio recordable books of it.
00:38:04.920 | And so that comes out every Christmas time
00:38:07.520 | and they listen to it over and over.
00:38:09.280 | And yes, like you with Linus,
00:38:12.160 | they've memorized significant sections of it
00:38:15.320 | without even knowing they were memorizing it.
00:38:17.160 | - Absolutely, absolutely.
00:38:20.200 | - And then the one that they'll also sometimes ask about
00:38:22.920 | is that one that makes Papa cry,
00:38:25.400 | which is the gift of the Magi.
00:38:26.880 | - Yes, yes, yes.
00:38:29.160 | Oh, and see, it'll make them cry
00:38:31.600 | when they are a Papa themselves, okay.
00:38:34.480 | That's great.
00:38:35.320 | Well, Tim, thank you so much for sharing
00:38:37.440 | just a little bit about your family's experience
00:38:40.180 | with reading aloud and helping our listeners
00:38:43.240 | brainstorm some ways to simplify Advent
00:38:47.720 | by reading together.
00:38:50.320 | I appreciate your time.
00:38:52.200 | And listeners, I appreciate you being with us
00:38:56.320 | on this journey of simplifying Advent this year.
00:39:01.040 | I have one thing I wanna tell you about
00:39:03.120 | that I don't know if you are taking a trip,
00:39:05.920 | if you're taking any trips for Christmas break this year,
00:39:10.240 | if any of you are gonna be in DC,
00:39:13.480 | I wanna suggest that you stop off
00:39:16.280 | at the Museum of the Bible.
00:39:18.780 | It's got a lot of interactive, immersive exhibits there.
00:39:23.780 | You can get the history of the scriptures.
00:39:27.280 | But this year, the museum is putting on,
00:39:31.640 | it's called Gloria Wonders of Noel.
00:39:34.520 | It's a series of Christmas-themed events
00:39:39.560 | that will really inspire your family.
00:39:41.440 | It's very joyful.
00:39:42.600 | It will show you the historical significance
00:39:46.360 | of the birth of Jesus.
00:39:48.860 | There are some daily readings about the Christmas story.
00:39:52.200 | There's some choral performances.
00:39:54.080 | There's crafts.
00:39:55.440 | There's all kinds of stuff going on.
00:39:57.900 | There are even some Christmas-exclusive exhibits.
00:40:02.000 | I think one of them is called Bethlehem Reborn.
00:40:05.320 | So if you're a CC member,
00:40:08.260 | you can also get a special discount code
00:40:11.580 | for your visit to Museum of the Bible.
00:40:15.280 | And if you want more information on events,
00:40:19.400 | you go to museumofthebible.org.
00:40:23.480 | And if you wanna find out about your special discount code
00:40:26.940 | as a CC member, you go to classicalconversations.com/motb.
00:40:31.940 | Okay, lots of good things for you guys to do
00:40:36.940 | as you celebrate Advent with your family this year.
00:40:44.280 | Tim, thank you again for being with me.
00:40:46.920 | - Thanks for having me on, Lisa.
00:40:48.240 | - Merry Christmas, Tim, and Merry Christmas to all you guys.
00:40:51.080 | See you next week.
00:40:52.560 | (gentle music)
00:40:55.140 | you
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