2023-10-13_How_to_Plan_for_Aging_Family_Members
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00:01:00.820 | Welcome to Radical Personal Finance,
00:01:02.060 | a show dedicated to providing you with the knowledge,
00:01:03.720 | skills, insight, and encouragement you need
00:01:05.760 | to live a rich and meaningful life now
00:01:07.920 | while building a plan for financial freedom
00:01:09.400 | in 10 years or less.
00:01:10.940 | My name is Joshua Sheets.
00:01:12.000 | I am your host.
00:01:12.840 | Today on the show,
00:01:13.760 | I want to answer a listener question.
00:01:15.500 | Corey writes in and says,
00:01:16.800 | "Joshua, what are your predictions
00:01:18.200 | "about the future developments or changes
00:01:20.680 | "in filial responsibility laws,
00:01:24.820 | "considering the aging population
00:01:26.480 | "and changing family structures?
00:01:29.020 | "Also, do you have any thoughts
00:01:30.460 | "about how to consider planning for siblings,
00:01:32.860 | "relatives, or parents who may need
00:01:35.420 | "additional help in old age?"
00:01:38.700 | Well, these are two questions.
00:01:40.340 | My answer to question number one will be rather limited.
00:01:44.380 | My answer to question two will be more expansive.
00:01:46.900 | The first question is,
00:01:48.020 | "What are your predictions about the future developments
00:01:50.320 | "or changes in filial responsibility laws?"
00:01:53.140 | Short version is, I don't have any predictions.
00:01:55.580 | I don't know very much about them.
00:01:58.500 | It's my understanding that filial responsibility laws
00:02:01.060 | are laws that exist in something
00:02:02.700 | like half of the United States.
00:02:04.220 | I don't know about international,
00:02:07.040 | how many countries around the world
00:02:12.340 | have these kinds of laws.
00:02:14.140 | But a filial responsibility law is a law that requires,
00:02:17.940 | using the power of the court,
00:02:19.340 | requires children, especially children with resources,
00:02:22.940 | to care for parents or other family members
00:02:25.900 | if those other family members are destitute,
00:02:29.460 | don't have the money to care for themselves,
00:02:31.420 | so they don't become a burden on the state.
00:02:34.460 | And that's about as far as my knowledge goes.
00:02:38.300 | These laws do exist.
00:02:39.860 | What is unclear to me is basically
00:02:42.860 | how widely enforced these kinds of laws are
00:02:47.620 | and what the practical impact of them is.
00:02:51.140 | In my own home state of Florida,
00:02:52.760 | these laws do not exist.
00:02:55.100 | And I just don't know how widely used they are
00:02:58.140 | in the states that have these on the books.
00:03:00.580 | And so I can't comment on that.
00:03:02.940 | And I couldn't find any information
00:03:04.700 | in thinking about or looking for that
00:03:07.260 | that really gave me any kind of insight to it.
00:03:09.740 | So I'm not gonna comment on what I think will
00:03:12.740 | or won't happen from a legal perspective.
00:03:16.220 | It would seem to me that at this point in time,
00:03:20.380 | we have a couple of trends,
00:03:22.020 | but, and those trends are opposing.
00:03:24.220 | So the reason that you're asking the question is,
00:03:26.700 | well, we have aging population.
00:03:29.060 | What are we gonna do if all of our old people are destitute?
00:03:32.420 | Well, that's true, but there's also a cultural trend
00:03:35.220 | towards intense autonomy,
00:03:37.740 | where basically people believe that
00:03:40.400 | they should be able to do what they want,
00:03:41.840 | when they want, how they want,
00:03:43.020 | with whom they want in any way whatsoever.
00:03:45.100 | And anything that infringes in any way
00:03:47.460 | on them doing what they want
00:03:49.460 | doesn't seem to be acceptable in the common culture.
00:03:54.460 | And so it's hard for me to see
00:03:58.140 | any kind of democratic system at the moment
00:04:02.020 | where significant levels of support
00:04:06.780 | would emerge for politicians who are promoting those laws
00:04:11.180 | and trying to change that.
00:04:12.940 | So I couldn't see anything significant changing there
00:04:16.000 | without a good lot of convincing from that perspective.
00:04:21.000 | I support the idea of filial responsibility laws.
00:04:25.880 | I think that laws and actions that require parents
00:04:29.660 | to care for their children are right
00:04:32.040 | and just and appropriate.
00:04:34.760 | And to me, I think that children have a natural
00:04:37.640 | and equal responsibility to care for their parents.
00:04:42.400 | I am sometimes shocked and amazed
00:04:45.840 | at the lack of this in our society,
00:04:49.980 | but I guess I shouldn't be,
00:04:50.960 | because at their core, people are basically selfish.
00:04:54.480 | And the idea then that people would continue
00:04:56.560 | to behave in a selfish way
00:04:58.840 | shouldn't be particularly surprising.
00:05:02.200 | But I can't see laws like that
00:05:04.200 | getting a wide degree of support in our time.
00:05:07.440 | I think the biggest problem with laws like that
00:05:09.640 | is the same frustration that I have
00:05:11.680 | with the divorce court system
00:05:14.200 | of how do you determine
00:05:16.440 | what is an adequate level of support?
00:05:20.280 | And having provided counsel to, financial counsel,
00:05:23.480 | to many people who have gone through divorce
00:05:26.600 | and experienced court settlements,
00:05:29.160 | I'm uniquely sensitive to the fact
00:05:32.460 | that when the divorce court judge prescribes
00:05:36.160 | a certain level of child support or alimony payments
00:05:41.080 | as required from a divorcing spouse,
00:05:44.180 | that often doesn't correlate
00:05:48.720 | to that person's moral responsibility.
00:05:52.040 | And so let me give you just a practical example of this
00:05:56.360 | that I hope is thought-provoking.
00:05:58.560 | As a father, I have a moral duty
00:06:02.360 | to provide for my wife and for my children.
00:06:05.880 | That is my duty.
00:06:07.520 | I have an obligation to do so.
00:06:10.800 | I must do everything that I am capable of doing
00:06:14.600 | to provide for my family
00:06:16.840 | and so that they are able to experience
00:06:20.480 | safety, security, full bellies, et cetera.
00:06:25.000 | But even as I say those words,
00:06:27.840 | what that actually means is something
00:06:31.360 | that we can widely debate.
00:06:33.800 | So for example, what does it mean to have a full belly?
00:06:36.800 | Well, I could fill up their bellies with rice and beans,
00:06:41.240 | or I could fill up their bellies with steak.
00:06:43.980 | One of them is vastly more healthy than the other,
00:06:48.200 | and yet costs vastly higher dollar amounts.
00:06:51.360 | So should I be required
00:06:53.000 | to feed my children steak three times a day,
00:06:55.640 | or is it adequate to have steak once a day
00:06:58.380 | or once every other day
00:07:00.040 | and have rice and beans once a day
00:07:02.360 | or once every other day, et cetera,
00:07:04.240 | in order to balance things out?
00:07:06.320 | When somebody wants the best for his children
00:07:08.840 | and wants to provide,
00:07:09.680 | he'll do everything that he's capable of.
00:07:11.720 | But now imagine that a ham-handed judge comes in
00:07:14.960 | and says the level of duty that is required of you
00:07:19.600 | as a father is that your children have to have food
00:07:23.940 | and it has to fit these certain requirements.
00:07:28.040 | Okay, that becomes very difficult
00:07:30.700 | because what is normal
00:07:32.400 | is that throughout the course of our lifetimes,
00:07:35.160 | we have certain periods where we can provide more
00:07:38.080 | and certain periods where we can provide less.
00:07:40.840 | And so in a normal relationship with me and my wife
00:07:44.080 | and our budget and our children and our needs, et cetera,
00:07:47.360 | we can go back and forth and change our diet
00:07:50.100 | based upon our financial ability.
00:07:52.400 | But when the court comes in and says you have to do this,
00:07:54.800 | it becomes very heavy-handed, very ham-handed.
00:07:57.920 | Similar things like providing shelter.
00:07:59.920 | I have a moral obligation, a moral duty,
00:08:03.360 | to provide shelter for my family.
00:08:05.640 | But what is the definition of shelter?
00:08:08.460 | Does that mean that they need to live in a house
00:08:11.240 | or is an apartment acceptable?
00:08:13.680 | If we live in a house or in an apartment,
00:08:16.400 | is it adequate that I put four children in one room
00:08:19.720 | or do I need four bedrooms for four children?
00:08:22.960 | If I live in a house or an apartment,
00:08:25.400 | but then I go and I spend months in an RV,
00:08:28.240 | am I providing shelter?
00:08:29.320 | Or if I live in a tent in the woods
00:08:30.720 | because that's all our budget will afford,
00:08:32.480 | is that adequate?
00:08:33.800 | And so again, in a normal situation,
00:08:36.240 | we have the ability to adapt and to adjust
00:08:39.680 | and normal loving parents look and say
00:08:41.400 | what's best for my children, I wanna do that.
00:08:43.640 | And there's a constant balancing that we do
00:08:45.680 | of the needs, the interests, and the obligations
00:08:49.200 | that we have for all members of the family.
00:08:51.440 | Now, when you go to divorce court,
00:08:53.160 | the judge comes in, looks at your resources
00:08:55.580 | in terms of income, and then just simply,
00:08:58.960 | basically prescribes a certain number
00:09:01.560 | and says this is the amount of money
00:09:03.560 | that you must pay for child support
00:09:05.960 | or this is the amount of money
00:09:06.780 | that you must pay for alimony.
00:09:09.200 | And while, so set aside child support and alimony,
00:09:12.860 | child support I think is definitely a moral obligation
00:09:17.920 | that should be imposed by the force of law.
00:09:20.080 | Alimony may or may not be a moral obligation
00:09:23.760 | depending on the circumstances of the divorce.
00:09:26.300 | But let's focus with what's simple, child support.
00:09:28.360 | Well, certainly, fathers and mothers
00:09:30.280 | should be required by society and by the courts
00:09:32.960 | to provide for their children.
00:09:34.160 | But once again, is it a number?
00:09:37.000 | And how do we know that number is enough, et cetera?
00:09:39.280 | So when the courts have to get involved
00:09:41.240 | in imposing a law, it becomes very,
00:09:43.840 | I don't know a better word to use than ham-handed.
00:09:46.600 | It's like, okay, it's directionally right sometimes,
00:09:50.000 | but lots of times it's not, and it doesn't allow
00:09:52.080 | for the normal kind of ups and downs of life.
00:09:56.360 | So now I think about what would happen
00:09:58.120 | if there were a requirement to provide for parents
00:10:00.800 | and with filial responsibility laws,
00:10:03.080 | and how would that actually be implemented?
00:10:04.600 | Again, I don't know how it is implemented right now
00:10:07.120 | in the states that have these on the books,
00:10:09.540 | but it would become very complex.
00:10:11.280 | What is the level of support
00:10:12.500 | that I must provide for my parents?
00:10:14.700 | I think that it's perfectly reasonable for me as a son
00:10:19.760 | to have a house with a room in it for my parents
00:10:22.980 | and provide for them a room that they can stay in
00:10:25.360 | and then welcome them into the family.
00:10:26.960 | That, I think, is an ideal scenario for a family.
00:10:30.000 | It's probably best if there's a little bit more separation,
00:10:33.440 | a separate wing of the house,
00:10:34.840 | or a little building on the backside of the garden is better,
00:10:37.440 | or a separate apartment within the house,
00:10:39.000 | some kind of separation, I think, is the best ticket
00:10:42.280 | to quality family relationships.
00:10:45.080 | But how big does the room have to be, et cetera?
00:10:47.940 | So I guess my commentary is just that it becomes,
00:10:52.240 | it's easy to see what should be done in broad terms
00:10:55.600 | from the perspective of responsibility and moral duty.
00:11:00.600 | It's not so easy to put that into legislation.
00:11:02.920 | The other issue I would see
00:11:04.120 | with things like filial responsibility laws
00:11:06.760 | is that it would be very hard to see those laws enforced
00:11:09.720 | across state lines,
00:11:12.000 | and especially in a country like the United States,
00:11:15.240 | because those are state laws,
00:11:17.000 | they're relatively easy to leave from,
00:11:22.000 | relatively easy to cross state lines into another state
00:11:24.880 | that doesn't have those laws on the books.
00:11:26.280 | And then in what way, what jurisdiction
00:11:28.920 | does a state-level government have
00:11:31.520 | to be able to pursue you to satisfy their claim upon you?
00:11:35.560 | So I'm in favor of the idea,
00:11:37.120 | but I don't have any predictions,
00:11:38.960 | nor do I really wanna be involved in any kind of movement
00:11:41.040 | of putting those things on the books.
00:11:43.080 | We should shame people who do not support their parents.
00:11:47.520 | We should, because we have,
00:11:49.760 | with building cultures of things that we praise and admire
00:11:53.920 | and things that we shame,
00:11:55.640 | those cultural-level influences
00:12:00.280 | are very effective and appropriate.
00:12:02.760 | And so we should do what we can do personally and culturally,
00:12:07.760 | and we should not hold up as examples of anything positive,
00:12:13.320 | men and women who don't honor their parents,
00:12:15.400 | care for their parents,
00:12:16.800 | and we should shame very, as robustly as possible,
00:12:21.520 | those who do not fulfill their responsibility
00:12:23.440 | for their parents.
00:12:24.640 | But in terms of turning that into law,
00:12:26.320 | I'll leave that to smarter people than me
00:12:28.440 | to think about how to handle those issues.
00:12:30.480 | I just don't wanna be involved in that.
00:12:32.520 | While I'm in favor of the responsibility,
00:12:34.240 | I don't wanna be involved in it from a legal perspective.
00:12:36.920 | So now, thoughts about how to consider planning
00:12:39.360 | for siblings, relatives, or parents
00:12:40.960 | who may need additional help in old age.
00:12:43.520 | Definitely.
00:12:44.720 | At its core, this is a problem
00:12:46.960 | that is extremely simple to solve
00:12:49.880 | if you have a strong foundation of relationship.
00:12:54.640 | In all interactions between human beings,
00:12:57.000 | the nature of the relationship between human beings
00:13:00.920 | either makes things easy to do or hard to do.
00:13:05.080 | And so if you have a good relationship among siblings,
00:13:08.440 | if you have a good relationship with parents or relatives
00:13:11.120 | or other family members
00:13:12.560 | who may need additional help in old age,
00:13:14.880 | it's relatively easy in the context
00:13:17.240 | of a strong and healthy relationship
00:13:19.960 | to find appropriate solutions.
00:13:22.680 | Human beings can work together marvelously
00:13:25.480 | when they have strong, loving relationships
00:13:28.880 | filled with mutual respect, mutual love and affection,
00:13:33.440 | and good communication skills.
00:13:35.520 | And so those are the fundamental things
00:13:37.520 | that we should always be building.
00:13:39.480 | And we should be building those things
00:13:41.400 | from the earliest of ages with our children,
00:13:45.560 | with our parents, across in every direction,
00:13:48.440 | and then we should be seeking to enhance them
00:13:50.200 | as much as is possible.
00:13:52.280 | And I think that this is something that we can all do.
00:13:54.920 | We all have a role to play in this
00:13:57.840 | where we can improve relationships.
00:14:00.460 | No matter how difficult our relationships currently may be,
00:14:06.000 | and in many cases, they are strained and they are difficult,
00:14:08.720 | we can all work together to improve them.
00:14:10.920 | And if that is present,
00:14:14.320 | then all of the specific planning ideas
00:14:16.800 | of where are you gonna live
00:14:18.120 | or how are we gonna provide care, et cetera,
00:14:19.880 | are relatively simple.
00:14:22.520 | If those good quality relationships are missing,
00:14:26.400 | or if the relationships are strained to begin with,
00:14:32.080 | then we run the risk of all kinds of stuff
00:14:34.840 | being legal battles and there's distrust, et cetera.
00:14:38.320 | So my hope is that we can build relationships.
00:14:42.160 | What are some things that we can do in advance?
00:14:45.040 | Well, the first thing is,
00:14:46.280 | let's deal with our children,
00:14:49.000 | 'cause I'm right in the middle.
00:14:49.840 | I've got children and I've got parents.
00:14:51.720 | So the first thing that I observed growing up as a child
00:14:56.720 | was to observe how my own parents
00:15:01.400 | fulfilled their filial duty to their family members,
00:15:06.200 | to their parents.
00:15:07.880 | So the first thing that we can do is set an example
00:15:10.160 | with how we care for our own parents.
00:15:13.800 | My father, when faced with his aging parents,
00:15:18.200 | said, "I will care for you
00:15:20.240 | "and I'll work with you in your old age,
00:15:22.440 | "but you're gonna have to come to me in Florida
00:15:25.360 | "rather than my coming to you out in Colorado,"
00:15:28.560 | where they were living at the time.
00:15:30.160 | And so while my grandparents were significantly young,
00:15:34.020 | young enough to do it,
00:15:35.640 | then they moved from Colorado to Florida
00:15:37.760 | in order to be near my father.
00:15:39.960 | And so that he could care for them in their old age.
00:15:43.400 | And that was, I think, a great idea.
00:15:45.760 | I think grandparents generally want to be
00:15:47.920 | where their children and grandchildren are.
00:15:50.240 | That's often the thing
00:15:51.200 | that disrupts people's retirement plans is they say,
00:15:54.200 | "Well, I wanna live in this particular place,"
00:15:56.280 | and then their children move around the country
00:15:57.720 | and they wind up following their children.
00:15:59.160 | So you should discuss these things as much as possible
00:16:02.080 | and make your own plans in advance.
00:16:04.160 | So my father moved his parents
00:16:05.840 | across the country to be near him.
00:16:07.440 | Now, they weren't dependent on him.
00:16:09.600 | They had a separate home.
00:16:11.120 | They had their own income sources, but they were near him.
00:16:14.200 | Then as they started to grow older,
00:16:16.000 | my father built a house, a large house,
00:16:18.400 | that would be able to integrate his family together.
00:16:22.520 | So he built a separate apartment within the house
00:16:24.920 | for his parents and he built,
00:16:27.160 | and it was large enough for his children as well.
00:16:29.720 | So that he was able to get everybody under the same roof.
00:16:32.680 | And so once again,
00:16:33.640 | this was a good, productive financial relationship,
00:16:36.600 | meaning that it wasn't that my grandparents were freeloading.
00:16:39.920 | They paid a fair amount of money from their resources.
00:16:43.400 | But of course, my father bore the primary risk
00:16:47.920 | and the primary decisions
00:16:49.200 | and the primary responsibility, et cetera.
00:16:51.240 | And then as my grandparents aged and needed care,
00:16:53.920 | then my parents provided the care for them.
00:16:56.440 | And as grandchildren, we were able to do that as well.
00:16:59.520 | And I think it was a great scenario.
00:17:02.000 | There are a few things I would do differently.
00:17:03.480 | For example, I think my grandfather
00:17:04.920 | should never have retired.
00:17:05.920 | That was a big mistake that we made.
00:17:07.320 | And because when he retired,
00:17:09.560 | he got sick and old and got dementia.
00:17:11.520 | Whereas if he'd never retired,
00:17:12.640 | I don't think he ever would have.
00:17:14.520 | But you live and you learn.
00:17:17.720 | So we had a good relationship.
00:17:19.320 | So the point is in watching that as a child,
00:17:23.240 | it becomes part of the family culture
00:17:25.080 | that this is the proper way that you care for aging parents.
00:17:28.640 | And so now, there's no doubt in my mind
00:17:32.920 | that every one of my siblings and I
00:17:36.000 | will and would, without a problem,
00:17:38.240 | provide exactly the same thing for my own parents
00:17:41.720 | without any kind of frustration or anger
00:17:44.720 | or resentment, et cetera.
00:17:45.840 | This is what we do for our parents.
00:17:48.200 | And so that's something that you have to take in mind
00:17:50.680 | is that if you want your children
00:17:52.320 | to feel a sense of filial responsibility towards you,
00:17:56.560 | not only preach that and make it clear
00:17:58.880 | that that is an obligation that we have,
00:18:00.960 | it's a moral duty that we have,
00:18:03.040 | but just simply provide the example.
00:18:05.240 | Another thing I think we can do is be thoughtful
00:18:10.480 | about how and when we interact with institutions.
00:18:14.720 | One of the great concerns that I have
00:18:17.000 | about much of the modern parenting practice
00:18:20.680 | is that we, in many cases, excessively use institutions
00:18:25.680 | to do work that is probably better done
00:18:29.740 | within the family or within the community.
00:18:33.080 | And as such, our institutions become strong
00:18:36.640 | and mighty and powerful,
00:18:38.520 | while our communities become weaker and weaker,
00:18:42.360 | and our families become weaker and weaker.
00:18:45.020 | So I think that before we institutionalize
00:18:47.520 | our own children, we should stop and ask ourselves,
00:18:51.820 | am I creating a culture where institutionalizing people
00:18:58.120 | is the normal course?
00:18:59.900 | Because if that's the case, there's a good chance
00:19:02.140 | that my children are gonna turn around
00:19:03.900 | and institutionalize me when I am old and need help,
00:19:08.900 | rather than doing something within the context
00:19:11.820 | of the local community or the local family.
00:19:15.080 | I do not enjoy going to retirement homes.
00:19:19.240 | Over the years, I have had various relationships
00:19:23.380 | with people who have lived in these homes.
00:19:25.840 | My mom has, for many years, run a weekly Bible study
00:19:29.320 | in a local retirement home.
00:19:31.000 | And anytime I go into one of these homes,
00:19:33.660 | I look around and I see people
00:19:35.460 | whose physical needs are provided for.
00:19:39.820 | They have a bed to sleep in,
00:19:41.320 | they have a nurse who's caring for them,
00:19:43.220 | they have food, medication, et cetera.
00:19:46.500 | And yet, their emotional life is a barren wasteland.
00:19:51.780 | And that saddens me immensely,
00:19:56.080 | because when you spend time in most of these institutions,
00:20:00.640 | you discover that the people within them
00:20:04.080 | are physically alive, but it's very difficult
00:20:07.960 | to see them thriving in life.
00:20:10.280 | And it doesn't have to be that way.
00:20:12.360 | - What is chronic migraine?
00:20:14.080 | It's 15 or more headache days a month,
00:20:16.240 | each lasting four hours or more.
00:20:18.160 | Botox, onobotulinum toxin A,
00:20:20.320 | prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine.
00:20:22.800 | It's not approved for adults with migraine
00:20:24.560 | who have 14 or fewer headache days a month.
00:20:27.080 | Ask your doctor about Botox.
00:20:29.040 | - Botox is a prescription medicine injected by your doctor.
00:20:31.680 | Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection,
00:20:34.360 | causing serious symptoms.
00:20:35.640 | Alert your doctor right away,
00:20:36.800 | as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing,
00:20:38.920 | eye problems, or muscle weakness
00:20:40.320 | can be signs of a life-threatening condition.
00:20:42.120 | Patients with these conditions before injection
00:20:44.080 | are at highest risk.
00:20:45.000 | Side effects may include allergic reactions,
00:20:46.960 | neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache.
00:20:49.280 | Allergic reactions can include rash,
00:20:50.960 | welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness.
00:20:52.880 | Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection.
00:20:54.960 | Tell your doctor your medical history,
00:20:56.440 | muscle or nerve conditions,
00:20:57.640 | including ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease,
00:20:59.360 | myasthenia gravis, or Lambert-Eaton syndrome,
00:21:01.520 | and medications, including botulinum toxins,
00:21:04.000 | as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.
00:21:06.840 | - Talk to your doctor and visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com
00:21:09.920 | or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.
00:21:12.900 | - I don't want to wax nostalgic
00:21:18.080 | for times gone by.
00:21:20.240 | There's a massive danger of that
00:21:22.080 | because history is never one thing
00:21:24.880 | and basically you can pick what you want from history
00:21:26.920 | and make the point.
00:21:27.880 | I think it's impactful though
00:21:31.600 | if we think about the concept of local communities,
00:21:35.800 | local families, as is in some cases,
00:21:41.160 | or has been in some cases, more common
00:21:44.320 | in localized agrarian societies.
00:21:47.600 | The specific lesson I want to draw is this.
00:21:50.320 | When communities were more local in nature,
00:21:54.800 | there was always useful and helpful work
00:21:59.000 | for old people to do.
00:22:00.560 | No matter how old you were,
00:22:04.120 | you could still sit on the front porch
00:22:08.120 | and shell peas for supper.
00:22:12.020 | No matter how feeble you were,
00:22:14.940 | you could still be present
00:22:16.640 | and watch the baby playing
00:22:18.680 | as long as there were appropriate safety
00:22:20.120 | and let others know if there was something that was needed.
00:22:23.680 | And so there was always a place
00:22:25.520 | in those kinds of societies
00:22:27.180 | for multi-generational usefulness.
00:22:30.220 | In our modern industrialized society,
00:22:34.440 | we have fractionalized,
00:22:36.680 | we've divided our lives
00:22:39.360 | and we've all become professional persons.
00:22:42.680 | And thus, most of our identity
00:22:45.440 | comes not from who we are as a person
00:22:47.640 | or our involvement in the community,
00:22:49.640 | but rather, especially in American culture,
00:22:52.040 | it's drawn from our professional identity.
00:22:54.720 | And so we go off in the day to our professional jobs
00:22:58.040 | and we do our professional work.
00:22:59.840 | We send our children off to professional teachers
00:23:02.320 | to professionally instruct them
00:23:03.760 | and prepare them for their professional work.
00:23:06.200 | And once our parents become professionally useless,
00:23:09.880 | we don't know what to do with them.
00:23:11.600 | And basically, we expect them
00:23:12.920 | to sit around and watch TV all day.
00:23:15.080 | And that is not something to look forward to.
00:23:16.800 | It's why I'm so against the concept of retirement,
00:23:20.200 | meaning a withdrawal from useful work,
00:23:22.960 | not specifically meaning that somebody
00:23:25.560 | can make whatever choices he or she wants to make
00:23:27.760 | about earning income.
00:23:29.680 | And so we should be very careful
00:23:30.960 | before we establish the precedent
00:23:33.080 | that our parents are going to become useless
00:23:35.920 | and we should look for ways to integrate them
00:23:38.280 | because they're not useless.
00:23:39.480 | They have a lot to do.
00:23:40.520 | And it's really important
00:23:42.200 | that our elders continue to have a useful
00:23:46.040 | and important role in the community.
00:23:48.080 | But in order to accomplish that,
00:23:49.720 | we need to be proactive about identifying the great things
00:23:53.000 | about our technologically advanced societies.
00:23:56.320 | I would not want to go back myself,
00:23:58.560 | but also recognize what we've lost and bring it back in
00:24:01.840 | because we are living in a world and in a time
00:24:04.720 | where there's so much that we can do
00:24:07.280 | if we just simply do it.
00:24:10.640 | So let's nurture relationships
00:24:13.200 | and let's build relationships.
00:24:15.720 | And then let's nurture communication
00:24:17.320 | in those relationships.
00:24:19.200 | So how can relationships be improved?
00:24:23.280 | I think just loving people is the key.
00:24:25.440 | And I don't mean that in kind of a loosey-goosey way.
00:24:27.720 | I mean, in putting it into practice.
00:24:30.200 | There are psychopaths in society.
00:24:32.560 | And if you have a psychopath for a relative,
00:24:36.960 | clearly you should be careful.
00:24:38.280 | And there are good reasons to cut off relationships entirely.
00:24:42.920 | But in general, the basic thing
00:24:46.160 | that harms any human relationship
00:24:49.320 | is selfishness and unwillingness to love.
00:24:53.480 | When you love another person,
00:24:55.200 | that means that you lay down your life for that person.
00:24:59.120 | You do what that person desires.
00:25:00.960 | You seek the best for that person.
00:25:04.560 | You believe the best about that person.
00:25:08.080 | You ascribe to that person the best motivations
00:25:10.480 | that you can possibly come up with.
00:25:12.400 | You give to that person.
00:25:13.840 | You think about what that person likes.
00:25:15.680 | And you treat that person the way
00:25:16.880 | that you would like to be treated if you were that person.
00:25:20.400 | And when we do that and we suppress our selfishness
00:25:23.840 | and our egocentric lifestyle
00:25:27.080 | and we focus more on what's in it for other people,
00:25:29.840 | relationships improve.
00:25:31.400 | They may not be great.
00:25:32.360 | Other people may never acknowledge it,
00:25:34.160 | but they can improve.
00:25:35.360 | And so the most practical thing
00:25:36.960 | is to improve relationships.
00:25:39.080 | In the context of relationships,
00:25:41.160 | if we are men and women of virtue and moral uprightness,
00:25:46.160 | then we can move to communication.
00:25:49.960 | And so one of the things that we should do
00:25:52.600 | and must do is communicate.
00:25:54.760 | Communicate about our dreams
00:25:56.680 | and communicate about our family members' dreams.
00:26:00.480 | Understand what our family members want
00:26:03.160 | and understand what we ourselves want
00:26:05.600 | and interact with them in such a way
00:26:08.600 | that we can learn what we need to learn
00:26:12.080 | about their situation so that we can plan together.
00:26:16.320 | So much of the time,
00:26:19.520 | if we just talked about our interests
00:26:23.320 | and talked about our shared visions,
00:26:25.480 | we could work together.
00:26:27.800 | Especially in the American culture context,
00:26:30.520 | we have a great strength and a great weakness
00:26:33.000 | in our cultural identity.
00:26:34.920 | The great strength is the power of the individual.
00:26:38.360 | Being a very individualistic society,
00:26:41.160 | we believe that individuals can succeed.
00:26:44.040 | And we believe that individuals should succeed
00:26:47.240 | based upon their own behaviors and their own merits.
00:26:50.560 | And that is powerful because the basic level of success,
00:26:54.280 | the basic level of get up and go,
00:26:56.520 | the level of independence and autonomy
00:26:58.960 | that is culturally present among US Americans broadly
00:27:03.400 | is higher than any other place
00:27:04.840 | that I have been or seen or studied.
00:27:08.240 | But the flip side is we get so accustomed
00:27:11.680 | to our high individualism
00:27:14.200 | that we forget about working together.
00:27:17.120 | We forget about the power of having shared visions,
00:27:20.320 | shared goals, and working together
00:27:22.640 | in a symbiotic relationship.
00:27:25.480 | And I don't see why it has to be that way.
00:27:27.840 | Maybe it does, but I don't see why it has to be that way.
00:27:31.840 | As I see it, what we want to do
00:27:33.400 | is we want to encourage intense, powerful,
00:27:38.160 | motivated individualism, and then collaborate together
00:27:42.800 | in a symbiotic, synergistic relationship.
00:27:48.240 | And we want to help one another and encourage one another.
00:27:51.000 | And so if we communicated about things
00:27:53.080 | and we started to work towards a shared vision
00:27:55.960 | among families, then I think we can accomplish
00:28:00.480 | far greater goals.
00:28:01.560 | What I don't think works is the infection that we have
00:28:06.400 | in much of modern society
00:28:08.680 | that basically the purpose of life
00:28:11.760 | is personal pleasure and happiness.
00:28:14.080 | Obviously, we all enjoy pleasure and happiness,
00:28:18.800 | but if we can't build some kind of shared vision
00:28:22.640 | that goes beyond personal pleasure and personal happiness,
00:28:26.760 | I don't see how family members
00:28:28.040 | can work very effectively together.
00:28:30.760 | And this, to me, seems a cancer
00:28:32.720 | that is undergirding much of our modern lifestyle.
00:28:36.360 | We look at the world through a lens of
00:28:38.600 | how is my happiness improved?
00:28:40.920 | How am I gonna be happier?
00:28:42.720 | And happiness is elusive
00:28:43.960 | and not particularly achievable as a goal.
00:28:46.400 | It's a byproduct, not a goal.
00:28:48.000 | And when pursued directly, it very rarely comes to fruition.
00:28:53.720 | When individuals pursue individual happiness,
00:28:58.080 | then they pass everything through this lens of saying,
00:29:01.040 | am I happier without you or am I happier with you?
00:29:03.680 | This is a cancer that is eating away
00:29:05.760 | at many modern marriage relationships.
00:29:07.880 | Instead of husbands and wives coming together
00:29:10.520 | to build something that neither one of them
00:29:12.500 | can build individually, that is a family,
00:29:16.480 | they come together often, unfortunately,
00:29:20.880 | under the erroneous idea that somehow being together
00:29:25.680 | will cause them to be happy.
00:29:27.600 | And then when they find themselves less happy together,
00:29:32.740 | then they say, well, maybe I'll be happier
00:29:34.600 | if I'm not with this guy.
00:29:37.000 | Maybe you will, maybe you won't.
00:29:38.600 | But generally speaking, if you weren't happy with someone,
00:29:43.600 | you're probably not generally gonna be happy without them.
00:29:46.880 | Let me be careful because I don't wanna say
00:29:49.040 | that there are not relationships
00:29:50.680 | that genuinely are damaging, there often are.
00:29:54.160 | What I mean is that knowing what makes you happy
00:29:57.160 | is vanishingly difficult.
00:29:59.040 | And then being able to put a plan in place
00:30:00.880 | to make yourself happy is very, very difficult.
00:30:04.760 | We're living in a society that self-reportedly
00:30:08.200 | describes itself as incredibly depressed.
00:30:11.240 | People are popping pills all day left, right, and center,
00:30:14.080 | and yet we live in a society in which it's never been easier
00:30:16.800 | to pursue your own happiness.
00:30:18.600 | It's a fool's errand.
00:30:19.760 | If we set aside the pursuit of our own happiness
00:30:24.320 | and we focus instead on a higher vision,
00:30:27.620 | a love for a neighbor, a building of dynasty,
00:30:31.000 | a building of community,
00:30:32.840 | a transformation of the world around,
00:30:35.240 | serving the unfortunate, loving the unloved, et cetera,
00:30:38.880 | we find ourselves happy in the midst of circumstances
00:30:42.560 | that previously would have thought ourselves miserable in
00:30:45.960 | because we find a deeper level of joy and meaning.
00:30:48.720 | And so families can often do this much more effectively
00:30:51.720 | if there's a shared vision.
00:30:53.400 | And what we often seem to lack in our modern society
00:30:56.040 | is any kind of shared vision.
00:30:58.880 | This week on Twitter, somebody made a comment
00:31:01.520 | something like about, you know, what's the point of,
00:31:05.520 | let me find the comment, standby.
00:31:07.160 | Comment is this, from dollarsanddata,
00:31:12.800 | great account by the way.
00:31:14.440 | Building generational wealth is extremely overrated.
00:31:18.960 | If overcoming hardship is what made you successful,
00:31:22.600 | why would you make life so easy for your offspring?
00:31:26.380 | My answer is this,
00:31:28.700 | because the money is only a necessary first step
00:31:32.480 | to spreading ideas and culture to better the world.
00:31:35.760 | Americans myopically believe money is a goal
00:31:38.840 | rather than a means to the goal.
00:31:41.800 | And so I see this very broadly in American society.
00:31:44.760 | People think that money is the goal.
00:31:47.480 | And so anything that enhances the money,
00:31:50.280 | well, of course, you know, that's great,
00:31:51.640 | but money is just a necessary step
00:31:54.040 | to accomplishing those bigger, more important goals
00:31:57.200 | that go far beyond money.
00:31:58.960 | And so when you think about this in the context of family,
00:32:01.360 | if you have a shared vision,
00:32:03.200 | something where you're working together
00:32:05.180 | over the course of generations,
00:32:07.180 | it can draw your family together.
00:32:08.540 | Now, this doesn't necessarily have to be
00:32:10.560 | something that sounds great to other people.
00:32:12.840 | Maybe it's your family's potential
00:32:17.280 | that you may forever end homelessness on the earth
00:32:22.280 | or whatever, you know, blood pressure problems
00:32:25.160 | or cancer or something like that.
00:32:26.480 | That's wonderful.
00:32:27.680 | But for many people, it's just simply a vision
00:32:30.040 | of that's much simpler.
00:32:31.960 | Here's our family business and we're having children
00:32:34.400 | and enjoying relationship together
00:32:35.880 | and building community together, et cetera.
00:32:38.280 | But those things matter.
00:32:40.120 | If we build a shared common culture
00:32:42.820 | and we work together in it,
00:32:45.320 | then siblings and relatives, family, parents, et cetera,
00:32:49.200 | we can all go farther ahead together.
00:32:52.520 | And that's what family should be.
00:32:54.060 | But in order to get there,
00:32:55.160 | we have to communicate about those things.
00:32:57.400 | And we have to seek to build a shared vision
00:33:01.420 | to the degree that it is possible.
00:33:03.760 | We want to build a shared vision.
00:33:07.920 | I believe that it's possible to a significant degree.
00:33:12.360 | Maybe not the highest ultimate degree.
00:33:14.800 | There's too much individuality among all of us,
00:33:17.600 | but I believe that it's largely possible.
00:33:19.800 | Check back in 30 years and I'll tell you how I'm going.
00:33:22.680 | In the context of strong quality relationships
00:33:29.040 | and good communication,
00:33:30.880 | we can solve most of the other problems.
00:33:34.160 | So then the next element of communication,
00:33:36.320 | in addition to those big grandiose ideas
00:33:38.440 | of common vision and et cetera,
00:33:40.480 | is just simply create,
00:33:42.400 | have open, honest conversations about things that matter.
00:33:47.560 | In some family relationships and in some families,
00:33:50.640 | I am amazed at how little of substance is said
00:33:54.840 | over the abundant family get-togethers.
00:33:59.840 | You can go to family get-together
00:34:01.760 | after family get-together after family get-together,
00:34:04.320 | and you can find so little of actual substance shared
00:34:07.480 | because everyone is so intent on not offending one another
00:34:12.280 | or not betraying who a person really is
00:34:16.640 | that we just pass through the sphere
00:34:20.600 | of each other's presence
00:34:21.720 | and never interact with someone on a deeper level.
00:34:24.800 | But it only takes one person to start that change,
00:34:29.000 | to start communicating about things that matter.
00:34:31.080 | And so what things would matter?
00:34:32.520 | Well, one would be asking questions like,
00:34:34.840 | dad, mom, what's your vision for your older years?
00:34:38.440 | And then listening or talking about money.
00:34:43.160 | A huge thing that we can do,
00:34:44.560 | especially those of us who are parents,
00:34:46.840 | is voluntarily open up to our children
00:34:50.800 | about our wishes and about our money
00:34:53.360 | and communicate about them.
00:34:55.280 | One of the standard pieces of advice that I always implement
00:34:57.760 | when talking with retiree age people
00:35:00.680 | is to say, are you consistently communicating
00:35:04.560 | with your children about your finances in detail?
00:35:09.240 | Because generally your children are going to feel
00:35:11.480 | a sense of reserve and caution
00:35:14.160 | and a lack of wanting to meddle in your affairs.
00:35:19.120 | And so they're often not going to bring up the subjects.
00:35:23.120 | But you as the parent can improve the communication
00:35:26.040 | by consciously saying, children,
00:35:28.400 | I want to bring you into my life
00:35:30.000 | and tell you where I am and how I'm doing
00:35:31.960 | and talk with you about this stuff.
00:35:34.600 | And you can create a culture of communication with them.
00:35:38.040 | And this is something that's helpful.
00:35:39.240 | They need to know the details
00:35:40.560 | so that you can work together on those details.
00:35:43.720 | You can start at either end.
00:35:46.040 | I've always appreciated that when changing your life
00:35:50.200 | and lifestyle, you can start at either end.
00:35:52.800 | You can start with a big grandiose vision of goals
00:35:55.960 | and vision and things you want to achieve.
00:35:58.000 | Or you can also just start with cleaning up your to-do list.
00:36:00.920 | Either way works.
00:36:03.640 | If you clean up your to-do list effectively,
00:36:05.680 | then in time you can get onto the dreams
00:36:07.800 | and the goals and the vision.
00:36:09.160 | You start with the dreams and the goals and the vision,
00:36:10.600 | sometimes you can sit down and fix the to-do list
00:36:13.560 | eventually when your vision is strong enough.
00:36:15.520 | And so either form of communication works.
00:36:17.800 | You can start with the dollars and cents
00:36:19.160 | and that leads into the big picture vision.
00:36:22.440 | Or you can start with the big picture vision
00:36:23.800 | and it'll bleed back to the dollars and cents.
00:36:25.720 | But you need to open up with communication
00:36:27.360 | and start talking about those things that matter.
00:36:29.760 | Then you can bring in questions such as,
00:36:32.200 | what would it look like if we worked together
00:36:34.560 | on these things?
00:36:35.560 | How could we improve our family dynamic
00:36:41.520 | if we worked together?
00:36:43.920 | Financially speaking, I think it's obvious
00:36:46.680 | that parents and children should work together.
00:36:49.400 | So for example, I think it's stupid
00:36:51.440 | how we handle family relationships in the United States
00:36:55.200 | where we often kick our children out at the age of 18
00:36:58.080 | to force them to go and struggle for years on their own
00:37:02.280 | instead of working together and supporting them
00:37:05.760 | in some productive way.
00:37:07.840 | As with anything, there is a flip side.
00:37:09.640 | We don't wanna enable a basement dweller
00:37:12.240 | who's irresponsible, et cetera.
00:37:14.720 | But if we can create positive character
00:37:19.040 | and we see people working hard,
00:37:20.760 | then we can support our children so much.
00:37:22.880 | And I think there's a massive disconnect
00:37:25.360 | between what the wealthy often do and those who don't.
00:37:30.360 | In my work of consulting with people,
00:37:33.440 | many times of significant wealth,
00:37:36.120 | I've noticed that so many times,
00:37:38.080 | wealthy people are grateful for the ways
00:37:42.280 | that their parents helped them get ahead,
00:37:44.480 | for the fact that they went to an elite school
00:37:46.680 | and they graduated debt-free,
00:37:48.680 | for the fact that their parents helped them
00:37:50.040 | get their first house or various things like that.
00:37:52.520 | It's so impactful when your parents help you get ahead
00:37:56.480 | if you are responsible.
00:37:58.120 | So we need to be very careful not to turn out deadbeats
00:38:01.960 | or enable deadbeats.
00:38:03.560 | But if we're working with people who aren't deadbeats,
00:38:05.720 | then we should work together and support one another.
00:38:08.440 | And so let me give you just a simple example
00:38:11.360 | that I've thought of a lot over the years.
00:38:15.560 | If you wanna have grandchildren,
00:38:19.040 | one of the ways that you can do that
00:38:22.360 | and make it more possible for your children
00:38:26.720 | to have children is help them with housing.
00:38:30.800 | So why is it that so often there's a empty-nester couple
00:38:35.240 | rattling around in an enormous house
00:38:38.080 | while their children are scraping by
00:38:39.960 | in a tiny apartment somewhere,
00:38:41.960 | trying to figure out how they're gonna shoehorn
00:38:43.640 | another baby into the extra closet?
00:38:45.560 | Now there are, of course, some good reasons
00:38:49.280 | why that happens.
00:38:50.600 | But in general, this is, to me, a kind of obvious example
00:38:53.840 | of what would be the power of working together.
00:38:56.160 | Why is it that the parents shouldn't or wouldn't or won't
00:39:01.160 | move into the apartment themselves and say,
00:39:04.640 | "Here, children, you guys need the big house now.
00:39:06.800 | "We'll pass it along."
00:39:08.400 | Well, usually it's due to those more fundamental factors
00:39:10.840 | that I've talked long about.
00:39:13.040 | How do we integrate people together?
00:39:14.920 | Do we have shared vision, et cetera?
00:39:16.200 | Is that a desire that we have?
00:39:17.440 | Do we wanna see our families grow?
00:39:19.840 | Do we wanna enable this behavior that's appropriate?
00:39:22.880 | Or are we focused on living in a fancy-looking house?
00:39:26.480 | I leave it for you as a brain worm.
00:39:31.280 | If you wanna have grandchildren,
00:39:34.560 | then raise children who get married
00:39:36.840 | and wanna have children,
00:39:37.880 | and then parents move into the apartment
00:39:40.720 | and give the children the big house,
00:39:42.640 | and do that down through the generations,
00:39:44.120 | and you'll create a family that is powerful
00:39:46.400 | and large and growing,
00:39:48.160 | rather than one in which everyone is in his or her own silo
00:39:51.920 | trying to do it all ourselves
00:39:54.040 | and having a very inefficient time of it.
00:39:56.160 | There's much more that could be said,
00:39:59.760 | but I think these are the most important things to be said.
00:40:03.960 | The specifics of where are we gonna live,
00:40:06.400 | how are we gonna work out the bills,
00:40:07.680 | who's gonna take care of parents,
00:40:09.800 | family schedules, nurses, no nurses,
00:40:12.680 | housing, rooms, et cetera,
00:40:16.880 | those are up to each individual situation
00:40:19.400 | to find something that's appropriate.
00:40:21.240 | I am glad to know that, at least a few years ago,
00:40:23.480 | I read an article that said a big trend
00:40:25.680 | in new housing development is to develop housing
00:40:28.520 | that incorporates living space
00:40:32.600 | for multiple members of the family in it.
00:40:34.880 | I think that's great.
00:40:36.560 | And I really appreciate how I think that this is,
00:40:39.720 | I really admire cultures where this is culturally expected.
00:40:43.520 | I think a lot of times the cultural expectations,
00:40:45.560 | especially on Asians and Latin people, et cetera,
00:40:49.920 | is often high and that comes with its own problems.
00:40:54.160 | But I admire so much that it's so common
00:40:58.160 | in Asian households to have multi-generational families.
00:41:01.280 | And to me, as long as we can deal with the boundary stuff
00:41:04.440 | appropriately and healthily,
00:41:05.840 | that just seems such a wonderful trend to me.
00:41:07.560 | And I'm glad the housing and whatnot is reflecting on that.
00:41:10.680 | To me, though, at its core,
00:41:14.440 | if we just focus on improving relationships
00:41:17.520 | and enhancing communication in those relationships,
00:41:21.120 | and then building as much shared vision
00:41:23.880 | and common purpose as is possible,
00:41:25.800 | and to emphasize,
00:41:27.960 | we're not all gonna go out and change the world together
00:41:31.960 | and be solving poverty in Africa together.
00:41:35.200 | That's not a realistic goal.
00:41:38.440 | But building a shared vision
00:41:40.360 | of what we want the next decade to look like
00:41:42.880 | and working together to the degree that is possible,
00:41:45.680 | given our individual unique perspectives on the world,
00:41:50.520 | that will enhance it.
00:41:52.200 | And if you want to do something
00:41:54.600 | to help the planning opportunities for siblings,
00:41:58.720 | relatives, or parents who may need additional help
00:42:00.680 | in old age, focus on relationship and communication.
00:42:05.680 | Because in the context of good relationships
00:42:08.960 | and strong communication,
00:42:10.800 | details will be easy.
00:42:13.000 | Without good relationships, the best possible,
00:42:17.120 | and strong communication skills,
00:42:20.720 | then all those specific decisions will be very difficult.
00:42:25.040 | So to me, that's the most important thing
00:42:27.440 | for us to focus on.
00:42:29.120 | Thank you for the question.
00:42:30.160 | It's thought-provoking.
00:42:31.520 | May we be those who set an example
00:42:33.880 | based upon the way that we live,
00:42:35.600 | live with vision so that those who come behind us
00:42:38.080 | can go farther than we and put into practice
00:42:40.960 | the things that we know to do.
00:42:42.280 | So it's not all just a fantasy,
00:42:44.560 | but it comes into reality.
00:42:46.680 | With Kroger brand products from Ralph's,
00:42:49.840 | you can make all your favorite things this holiday season
00:42:53.000 | because Kroger brand's proven quality products
00:42:55.480 | come at exceptionally low prices.
00:42:57.720 | And with a money-back quality guarantee,
00:43:00.160 | every dish is sure to be a favorite.
00:43:02.440 | ♪ These are a few of my favorite things ♪
00:43:06.040 | Whether you shop delivery, pickup, or in-store,
00:43:09.720 | Kroger brand has all your favorite things.
00:43:12.840 | Ralph's, fresh for everyone.
00:43:14.960 | (upbeat music)