>> Hi, everybody. Let's take our seats now. Start coming back. I know we had a nice kind of longer lunch break. Really appreciative of our BAM logistics team. Let's give them a big round. >> >> People were like, in and out, we can afford that? >> >> And then it was so efficient that, typically for 130 people to get food alone just takes like 30 minutes line, but everybody was done eating by like 1230, so.

It went very smoothly. And then I know we had kind of a nice gap where you guys could talk and hang out. I know that some people, that kind of downtime and loitering is really painful. For others, I believe lifelong friendships were made. >> >> Those are good times just to get to know each other better and hang out, and I hope that it has been.

Again, having extended and quality time together, it's a precious thing. Okay, a couple announcements wise. So right now we're entering into a mini talk plus Q&A. Okay, so number one, here's my phone number, because you can just text me just questions pertaining to, A, if you've ever been confused about the concept of God's holiness.

For us as good students of the scriptures, it's always good to ask questions. So please ask related to concepts of God's holiness. If you have questions about, okay, well, nevertheless, we did talk about understanding God's holiness has a natural ramifications of what we're gonna do and not do. So if you've ever wrestled with gray areas in life, this is a good opportunity that we do Q&A because of that, because sometimes there are areas that are grayish.

If you even have questions about even advice that you would like for scenarios, you can send that over. And I promise you I will not disclose, like, so Mike Tice asks. I promise you that it's just gonna be kept anonymous, okay? So there's the number. Feel free to think about questions related to things that are relevant in case scenario to you, but also even conceptually and applicationally, okay?

Great. Then, if you would turn your Bible to Galatians chapter 5, I'm gonna read to us a section, and then we're going to do a quick mini talk, okay? Quick mini talk. All right, and we're gonna start in verse 16. So Galatians 5, verse 16, very well-known passage, distinguishing for us what it looks like to walk by the spirit.

And so verse 16 says, but I say, walk by the spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh. For these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, and factions. Envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the spirit, let us also walk by the spirit.

Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another. Now let's take a moment to pray. Heavenly Father, we continue always to ask that whenever, Lord, we are being taught by the scriptures, we pray your spirit will illumine that scripture to us. Help us to both understand, but also to, yes, feel, and then to be convicted and apply.

I pray, Father Lord, that we would be strengthened by your word. We thank you in Christ's name, amen. Okay, so I am gonna do audience participation. And I know some of you guys hate it when I do this stuff, but I'm gonna call on some people to come up here and answer some questions with me.

Okay? It's like, a shoe with no eye contact, okay? All right, so I'm gonna just scan the room from my left, and I just invite you to come up. Some guys that I sometimes like to pick on. I see Billy over there, come on up, Billy. >> >> And then, I know he's always down.

Look at that excitement. As he comes towards the front. And then on my right, I got Sam. Come on up, Sam. >> >> All right, so please come on up here. >> >> Okay, so please, if you would just take a moment to introduce yourself and give the people just one interesting fact about yourself first.

Come on up. >> My name is Billy, and interesting fact, I don't know, I grew up in Texas. >> >> That's it, that's it. >> >> Okay, so my question to you is, there is no right answer, and I want you to, I didn't prepare you because I just want you to respond with one of those kind of word association ways, right?

So, being that we are in our singles ministry, a lot of times, if you guys ask me for advice on dating, I say, a huge part of the game of dating is your ability to correctly, appropriately, and realistically assess a person. Is this person holy? So my question to you is, when you take a moment to evaluate somebody, and you're thinking, wow, that girl is holy, right?

What is the first thing that comes to your mind? >> >> Like what I see in them, or like what? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Like someone who has a pattern of serving the church? >> Service to the church. Good answer, good answer. >> >> Okay, so please also introduce yourself and give us just what you're up to in life these days.

>> Hi, I'm Sam, and these days I'm sitting in a room for many hours working. I work in marketing, so that's why. >> >> Now I'm gonna give you an option of two questions, okay? So you could take the same question. When you see a guy, and then you're just like, wow, that guy is holy, right?

What is the first thing that comes to your mind? But also, if you see a guy and you're like, that guy is so unholy, what is something that's just like a massive just turn off because it's so ungodly? What would be your first thought when you think of, wow, that's really unholy?

>> It's an easy question. >> Okay. >> I think about that all the time. No. >> >> Mine's related. It's humility and pride. >> Mm, okay, good answer. >> >> You're good. Okay, ten points for each of you, okay? All right, now I had to ask this question. It's like when we think of holiness, again, we have good preconceived notions because we've been studying the scriptures, we've been coming to church.

And we recognize that certain aspects of your life really mark you as a holy individual who is dedicated to God or somebody who's just like, wow, you're very fleshly, right? And when you think about it, it's the service aspect of it. If you see somebody who is selfish, right?

It's like, if that doesn't have anything to do with me, I'm not doing it, right? Unwilling to serve another individual, how come you're not doing something for me? Right? That's very ungodly because of the whole orientation of the selfish attitude, right? And likewise, every single one of us, we recognize that when it comes to the topic of humility and pride, it is truly the, I guess, the two routes of life ambition that you can take.

You're either going to seek your success, and we've been hearing it from the pulpit on Sundays, right? Wow, what a powerful message we heard on Sunday. You're either going to always presume that everyone's will for your life should be my success, right? My provision and my security, and then you just include God into it.

Or you're going to think on a completely different level and playing where it's, no, no, no, it's God's glory, right? The fulfillment of God's plan, his exaltation at whatever cost. And those are two entirely different spectrums, okay? I wanted to talk about that, and I read you this passage because there are some other things that I like to highlight, okay?

And what I like to highlight is that, to me, what is kind of like a mantra of the scriptures is you see it and you believe it, okay? You see it and then you believe it. And what I recognize is, in terms of an individual who is evidently godly, evidently holy, is then an individual who has seen what we talked about in the morning.

Right? He's caught a glimpse of like, God is just so big, right? And he can't help now but to stare because he's everywhere, you know? And that individual who has a massive vision of God is growing in his holiness, okay? Scripture actually says, my people, they die, right? They essentially destroy themselves for a lack of knowledge of me.

And what the scripture says is, when you have that knowledge, however, the lack of knowledge will lead to your doom. But when you have that knowledge, it is so difficult to turn away, and so your heart then is inclined. And you have to believe it, okay? In that way, you know how this morning there was this exhortation like, set Christ apart in your heart, right?

Sanctify him as Lord in your heart is what it said in 1 Peter 3, verse 15. Well, the exhortation there, there's a sense to which you can sit there and then start divulging like, what does that mean to set apart and then da-da-da-da-da. But scripture talks about there is this very simple devotion, there's a simplicity, right, to the holiness that we're trying to pursue.

What I'm talking about is ultimately, if your heart is bent on seeing and loving Jesus, you're gonna radically grow in the holiness and pragmatics of your life. And that's why I read to you Galatians, so look back at Galatians chapter 5. He talks about this basically two conflicting tensions.

And what he says is, walk by the spirit and you will not carry out, what? The desires of your flesh. For the flesh, it sets its desire against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh. For these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law, okay? And what you have here is essentially, yes, there is this complex battle, the epic yin and yang. It's not really, but that's how it feels sometimes. Where the flesh wants what it wants. It wants its pleasures, it wants its desires, it wants its ambitions, it wants its successes now.

But there's the spirit, right? With desires for the things that are godly, things that are eternal, things that are heavenly, things that will exalt the Lord. And these two things are in opposition to each other. I believe sometimes people ask questions of like, how do I do this and how do I do that?

But I think you and I know that ultimately, much of scripture will tell you, if that first step you're able to surrender your bent, your desire, and your longing, you're gonna win. You're gonna walk in the spirit. If you're willing to relent on whatever expectation that is worldly and fleshy, if you're willing to let go of that desire in your heart that says, I must have this to be happy, there's a lot of hope for you, okay?

Scripture is very, very clear. Like there's, yes, is it complicated on how to do this and how to do that? Yes, but what scripture talks about is, actually, the man who's very, very strong, there's a man who can control this little guy in here that says, I want what I want.

And that's why in Book of Proverbs it says, the man who has self-control is actually mightier than the man who overtakes cities. There's a kind of strength that just, when you can control this, man, a lot of opportunities open up for you. But unfortunately, what I found in this generation is a lot of people talking about the frustration so hard, da, da, da, da, da.

And a lot of times in the moment of the frustration, in the moment of that feeling like it's so tiring just fighting against your flesh and the desires of your heart, they turn around and almost feel like it's a noble thing to follow this passion. And I wanna talk about that a little bit.

Again, you guys know I kinda like teasing and using the dating analogy. Sometimes when a guy comes to me and we start talking about stuff and then we get into the conversation about dating, it's not every time, just sometimes, right? I like to tease and I'm like, who do you like, and all that kind of stuff.

And then when they say, I like so and so, sometimes I like to tease and I'll ask them, isn't it tiring when you want something so bad? But there you are, not knowing what to say, what to do. Isn't it tiring, this chase? They're like, yes, it is. And then I tease and I say, you gotta do something about that.

They're like, yeah, maybe I should. And I go, fail. You can't just ask somebody out or do something because you're tired. What are you thinking? Sometimes you just gotta set people up for failure. It humbles us. And it makes us think about life in total, okay? Now I'm being facetious here, but more so what I'm talking about here is, I think we recognize, the reason why I bring that up is because sometimes we're very frustrated with ourselves because, again, admittedly so, topics like dating.

I don't just talk about it just cuz it's fun, but because I recognize it is an absolute reality that we end up thinking about it a lot and so it takes a ton of space in our real estate of our mind, right? And some of us are very frustrated because I would like to not think of it, but it's just there, right?

How do we fight that? And then it's not just dating because if we're not able to control that, then the next thing will just come along. It could be, again, desires for a certain kind of lifestyle. Median American living, right? Average America. It could be, if some of you guys, you're in the thick of it where you long to purchase a home and you realize, my goodness, staring at Redfin, three hours can go by like this.

You recognize just the pull and it's so evident, as this passage would say, right? And so my mini kind of talk here is thinking through, yes, the battle for holiness is an ongoing battle that is difficult. Yes, that battle for holiness can take lots of different shapes. Different moments will come at us in just basically different faces.

But ultimately, there's a simplicity to it, right? And that simplicity is revealed to us here. The fruit of your flesh, it all comes from this desire of I want what I want, though. And a lot of times, we're going to wrestle with the thought of not sometimes brazen, like I'm just gonna have it, I don't care what you say, God.

To the, well, I'm gonna try and see if I can get it no matter, like whatever way possible while not compromising. And then a lot of times we'll say, well, conditionally, if I could have both, both the very, very godly person with all the superficial stuff, all combined to a nice package, I want that.

We're gonna put it into different words, but ultimately it comes down to that kind of fight. Your desires will make all kinds of rationalizations. It'll take different shapes and forms and sizes. But ultimately, he will ask us the question, by the power of the spirit, can we relent in the desires of our heart?

Because the desires of your heart show you quite often, more evidently, how holy you are, right? I'm gonna repeat this phrase because I think it is appropriate. A lot of times people will say, you are what you eat, okay? What goes into you, that's what you become. Biblically speaking, you are what you desire, right?

You're going to end up, so long as you desire the Lord, you're gonna desire to imitate him. So long as you desire the world, you will follow after the world pattern. You will become what you long for. And the desires of your heart and the affections of your heart, that a lot of times shows you a greater picture of how mature you are, how superficial you are, or how holy you are, amen?

Let's take a moment to pray over that brief talk. Heavenly Father, we wish sometimes that we could just take a hold of our heart, you know, dig into our soul and just grab onto all those stubborn, resilient, fleshly desires we have. Desires for recognition, desires to please people, desire for success and ambition, desires for earthly gain, desires for lust and sexual pleasure.

The list can go on, Lord. The list can just keep going on. But I pray, God, that you will teach us what it means just step by step, one thing at a time, to surrender our ambitions, our desires, not simply to relent, but to surrender those things, and then fully buy into your desires.

I pray, Father God, that the longings of our heart, the meditations, the fantasies, that these things will be godly, that these things will be holy. I pray, Father God, from the beginning portions of our minds, what we picture to be good, pleasing, joyful, and success for us, that inside the sanctuary of our minds, it would be pure.

And I pray, Father God, that you would help us in that end, that from internally, the things that we long for would be pleasing to you. We thank you, it's in Christ's name. Amen. Okay. So, we're going to move now into a time of Q&A. And again, please feel free to message about topics of, if you've ever been confused about like, what conceptually does this aspect of holiness mean?

Or there are a lot of questions about, hey, where is the balance of legalistically forbidding some things versus allowing there to be, right, like room for you to live and work out your salvation with fear and trembling? So, any of those questions would be okay. I'm going to tackle a question pertaining to, is it sinful, okay, is it holy to want to retire early?

Okay, to want to retire early. And I like this question a lot because I think it touches upon something that really is for us living here in Orange County in America, we have to keep an eye out for. If we're just being watchful, we really have to keep an eye out for.

Meaning, at some spectrum of your longing and desire, it turns into an unholy desire or a permissible desire, right? And along with it comes a lot of different things that we've been talking about recently. So, what I'm talking about is, you can move things around for financial gain so that you can have lots of privileges and opportunities.

And what I'm specifically talking about for us, a lot of people have been talking about, dude, do you want to pack up and plant a church in Texas, right? Or I heard, oh man, I can't remember the name of the city. Somebody told it to me, I guess in Nevada, just like a click north of Las Vegas, there's like an Irvine of Nevada, where it's like pre-planned cities, very clean, highly controlled, right?

And so, and a lot of businesses. So, Irvine is pretty unique in that it has a lot of youthfulness, young families love it, great schools, tons of businesses, and essentially it's one of the safest places in the country. Like crime rate is very, very low. So, to be here, actually speaking, we're not trying to brag in any way, but in many ways, we're like highly, highly privileged to live here in Orange County, right?

We are, objectively speaking. Okay, that being said, still nevertheless, nevertheless, people have this thought, but if I go to Nevada, I could have potentially all that plus less taxes, right? Plus, I could have all that plus X, Y, and Z. Now, the question is, is that godly and holy?

Okay, so this is where it, because the question asks, is it sinful? Okay, that's the tough one, okay? It kind of, and my answer is going to be, well, it kind of depends. And sometimes, something doesn't have to be entirely sinful to be foolish. Sometimes, something doesn't have to be entirely sinful to be a compromise in your heart.

And then also, sometimes, I can't say that's compromise for all people in all scenarios, right? Okay, but I want you guys to think about this on a certain level, which is, yeah, like number one, there's a ton of people who, for the sake of their family, jettisoned everything and immigrated to the US.

Is that bad and evil? No, you have to consider that, right? But then there's this other question. If you happen to live in one of the most safest, prosperous cities, not only in the country, but in the world, and yet you feel like you have to move in order to actually obtain to a lifestyle that you'd prefer, then now you have to start asking some questions.

And the question is mainly, what are you actually pursuing then, right? And there's this question. Sometimes, people ask, and I ask them, I ask people a lot of times, like, okay, what else is there for you? Do you have family members that you're trying to minister to? Is there a church you're trying to help build?

Was there a godly ministry that was doing effective ministry to the community? Like, was there any further thought? Because another rationale could be, well, I'm moving to India because there happens to be a community that's trying to be built to do ministry out there, and I'm gonna jettison all the rest of these safeties and actually put myself at a greater risk.

That actually makes a lot of spiritual sense. The rationale has spiritual sense behind it. But the rationale behind, I don't know about if there's a church out there. I don't know, actually, I have no family out there. I don't have a community out there, but what they do have is a house that I can afford.

That makes human sense, and therefore, you can call that human wisdom, but you cannot call that spiritual wisdom. You can't. At best, you can call it human wisdom, which matters, but you can't call that spiritual wisdom. And then, I would say, if to you, the only reason why that's a possibility is, well, I'll go see if there's a good church out there.

I'll go see if I can do ministry out there. Then that means you have a plan, and then you hope that circumstantially, it makes sense spiritually. What would that be like? That would be like a guy pursuing a girl because she's beautiful on the outside. He knows nothing about how she's on the inside, but he hopes, he hopes it'll work out.

Someone would have to tell me the difference between the two, right? Between a man chasing a girl because she's beautiful, but he doesn't even know what she's like on the inside. That's kind of risky business, actually. And then, from a leadership standpoint, like if you're a man of the house and you got your family, I think it's great leadership to lead your family and say, hey, I know we could have X, Y, and Z.

I know you'd be more comfortable, but for the sake of the gospel, we're not going to take those opportunities. Why? Because that could potentially compromise us, as opposed to you explaining, I know we're moving, I know we're leaving community, I know the kids have their schooling here, I know the da-da-da-da-da, I know the wife has her community and the sisterhood, but we're going to uproot all that stuff, and I hope you find it.

I'm not sure how I could show the wisdom in my rationale as a leader. The question then also asked a question about the retiring early. The answer again then is, no, it is not sinful to seek retirement early. However, there is this question about how much risk will you take for your spiritual well-being if so much of your investment is wanting to make sure that you can do X, Y, and Z in the future while you pay the price now?

We're going to all pay the price at some point. It's the whole issue of pay the price much later or pay the price now, right? You're going to do the expenditures now or you're going to do it later? That's the game, and there's wisdom in that. So again, please don't get me wrong.

If let's say somebody here decided like, I'm moving for a job though, is he mad? Like, is he going to be upset? It's like, no, case by case, you have various circumstances, you can't help, right? But the desire to retire early, there is this kind of sentiment, huh, I'm not sure if, like, if this is one of those scenarios where the path of you wanting to exalt Christ, you wanting to serve the Lord, you wanting to build his church, edify the saints, and evangelize those individuals who are desperately lost, there is a question of, is any of you retiring early going to contribute to that?

And if it is, great, right, great. There are people who plan well and when they retire, they're like all out for just writing Christian stuff, doing evangelism, going and sharing, great. But if this is more so on the line of like, oh, but then I can't do overlanding and camp trips on the weekends until I get to that point where I don't have to be in the office anymore.

Yeah, then the rationale is really tough, right? Again, for those of you guys who like going camping, I have no problem with the camping. I went camping two weeks ago. But the idea again here is, both on the level, again, you guys understand, I think, so let me just wrap that up.

It's a long answer. Oh man, if I do this for every question, we're not gonna finish. But the reason why I spent some extra time on it is because you guys understand, right now there are like social justice issues, there are like racial issues. These are all very important to talk about.

But another thing to really talk about is, how much are we compromised in our thoughts that I must secure a financially median version of America in order for me to be godly? That's not the case. If you see articles that say, a Christian man, he better have like a 401k and life insurance so that his wife's not in trouble.

Dude, the vast majority of history did not have the privileges we have today. And to think that it's godly to have that, you couldn't even boldface say that to an Indian pastor. Like, we're gonna, as Americans, go over there and teach them, like, you know what you need to do?

It's absurd, right? The scripture does not mandate us to have a median version of America in order to be godly. So I actually believe that's a big threat. It's a big threat, materialism, and a weird sense of what is like normative for the Christian in America. I think that's a bigger threat to our sobriety and our sense of like, I'm dedicated to the cause of Christ than is a lot of the issues that are going on, as important as they are.

So, great question. All right. Okay. Thank you guys for sending in these questions. Yeah. This is a great question. And it's a bit more of an internal question. So thanks for raising it, which is, hmm, is there a balance between you knowing God relationally as Father, so you respect and worship him as holy God, versus being honest and open with him, right, while you do that, so that when you're honest and open, you're actually able to even disclose some of the things that are in your heart, right?

So that's a great question, because sometimes, I have heard two extremes. I went to a conference one time, and the pastor told the congregation, pray sinfully! We're all sinners. You're not fooling nobody, right? Just pray in your sin, and pray sinfully. Now, some of them are like, hmm. (laughs) But God says, watch your mouth when you come to me, right?

You're treading on holy ground, right? Don't just throw up words. He literally commands to watch your words as you come to his throne, yes? 'Cause he is king. So I listened to that, and then I heard, and I said, okay, okay, he's overstating what he saw in the book of Psalms, right?

And then, there's the other part, though. It's like, well, I guess the only thing we can say is, majesty, majesty, holy, holy, holy, I surrender. But then, you've never really dealt with what's actually in your heart. And for me, as a counselor, and as a pastor, I love it when people feel comfortable enough with me where they can say, okay, unfiltered thought, this is the junk I have.

I'm gonna barf on the table. Can you help me sort it out, right? And then, I'm like, ooh, yeah, this is gross, but let's sort this out, you know? (laughs) So, this is what I'm gonna say. Is there a balance? And the answer is, there is. There is a balance.

So, I love Psalm 73, because Psalm 73 is just like, Lord, where are you? Look at these wicked people. They're like, prospering. And far be it from you. Like, this isn't fair, you know? And look at these prideful people. They just lift up their words to you, and then they just prosper in this land, and there's like, no consequence for them.

And then, what he does, though, is he reveals all that, but he takes what I like to call due diligence to not stop there. And then, he says, but I'm gonna enter into your presence, into your sanctuary, and then, I'm corrected. And his attitude is humble. And then, he admits, when I'm not thinking straight, and I'm just speaking, I'm going to betray the generations after me, and then, he says, I was like a dumb beast.

And then, he says, I know you're a sovereign. And then, so he goes to the due diligence of working through all the truths he knows about God, right? I think, in that way, you do have a balance there. You go through the process of working through your actual thoughts and sentiments, but you're also making sure that you do not just toss it up as like, this is how I feel.

What you gonna do about it, God, you know? Sorry, I can't do the attitude thingy very well. But if we do that, that entire attitude, obviously, is gonna get squashed. It's arrogant. So, that to us, kind of, is an important process for us to go. Okay. Great. There is a question about, okay, in this day, media addiction is like a real thing, and there's an age-old question.

Is it actually okay to watch, let's say, a lot of R-rated movies, a lot of violence, and it's difficult to watch without promiscuity these days? Okay? Okay. So, this is what I would say. And here now, again, we're doing a Q&A. I'm not gonna, like, overstate this. Our Lord Jesus said, "Your eyes is a lamp to your heart." That needs to bear application.

So, I will say, apply that truth somehow, someway. If there is no discretion that is different between you and a non-believer as to what you allow into your face, then you haven't applied that verse. King David actually says, "I will put nothing worthless before me, before my eyes." Right?

Nothing worthless. I would say there are things that are just as worthless as porn. You know what that is? It's MTV Cribs. Look and gawk at how much he has, right? Look at how he can spend $700 on a burger, right? And then you watch that thing, like, "Yeah, that'd be cool one day." Rationally speaking, what's the difference between that and porn?

And so, that's why people call it food porn. People call it house porn, right? 'Cause in the end, you're vicariously trying to live out something you can't have. And you know, deep down inside, if you had it, it would be compromise. Okay? Think about that for a moment then.

And this was so weird to me. It's like, I remember a long time ago, this was already years ago, people talking about a very popular TV show that had tons of just raunch sexual material. And then people started debating online, and then one side of the debate said, "Dude, it's art.

It's showing and depicting the severity of the sin of man." And I was like, "Eh, I don't know about that. What would you say? It's art." Art is not a category that is outside of the judgment of God. You, as a Christian, we appraise everything spiritually. And just to say that it's art, is it now free of judgment?

No. I judge everything according to God, right? And secondly, it's not just art. It's a main product for you to consume and get hooked to so that you keep watching it so they can make money. It's not just art. And then people on the side would be like, "Yeah, I know the scripture says, right?

Like if you even look lustfully at a woman, I know scripture says, right? That your eyes should be holy. I know scripture says." And it's like, "Yeah, I don't know what to do with this part." I'm gonna be honest. I actually think as a whole, every single one of us, we're actually trying to watch less.

You know what I'm saying? Why are we fighting for the right to watch stuff that's questionable? To me, it's just kind of like, I know that could come off as like very extreme, but rationally think through that. Like something is so questionable that the non-Christian world wonders whether it's legitimate for children, adults, or anybody to watch.

'Cause people are wondering, is it questionable for is it okay even to produce? Why would Christians fight for that? Strange to me, very strange. So I know I'm talking now in more broad categories. I don't wanna get more specific than that because you will have to obviously work out your salvation, work out your thoughts, think through what you're gonna allow in and allow also out.

Because I believe scripture is very clear that it is almost, it's very difficult for us to not get influenced by that kind of stuff. And then also, I kind of feel like if an individual says like, yeah, yeah, it's okay, I've been watching, it hasn't affected me. I don't think then that individual has experience.

Trying to counsel a generation where sexual deviance is so rampant, it's not really in tune with what is actually taking place in the private lives of people, right? If someone is counseling a young man and saying, yeah, you can watch that stuff, it's like, have you counseled young men?

Have you counseled yourself in how easily you're tempted? So all those things I think contribute to that thought. Okay? Great. On that topic, any follow-up questions? Is anyone so bold enough to raise your hand and ask a follow-up question? I'm kidding. Okay, okay. If you do, though, don't be afraid to raise your hand.

Okay, I know it's like a larger group or whatnot, but don't be afraid to raise your hand. Okay. Okay. Oops. (audience member speaking faintly) Okay. Ah. This is a question about some people seem more predisposed to inclinations of holiness and pursuing it. How do you increase these inclinations even when you don't feel the desire and motivation?

Is it possible to be Christian and not holy? Okay, so there's two questions bound up there. And let's answer it actually in reverse order. So let's do one of those audience participation voting thingies, okay? And we'll see how many hands go up, okay? Question is simply, is it possible to be Christian and not holy?

Those who say yes, raise your hand. Okay, and then answer the question. Those of you who say no, raise your hand. Okay, so that's really interesting, right? So this past week, we had studied Second Thessalonians, and there was this really challenging passage, right? Keep away from the brother who leads an unruly life.

It's like, dang, aren't we supposed to love our brother though, you know? And it's a hard passage to apply, okay? But the interesting fact about it is, it said, but that's a brother, right? Keep away from a brother, okay? So I want you guys to think about that a little bit, and then think about a lot of our experiences.

It is a very, very difficult thing to ask a question. I was like, is this possible, is it not? Because the scripture is what it does, is it gives you contributing principles. And it's not always so easy to make a determinative answer. What I mean is, 1 John chapter one is absolutely clear.

If you say you know God, but you walk in a pattern of darkness, you're an absolute liar, bold-faced liar, and you know you don't know God, right? So 1 John is actually really, really clear. An individual who is walking in a life pattern where he's comfortable in sin is not a Christian.

But then, you look at passages even like Second Thessalonians, you look at passages like 1 Corinthians, how does Apostle Paul begin 1 Corinthians? You saints, beloved of God, right? I am confident of things better for you. It's weird, so you have multiple principles there. And then, I want you to think about even our experience.

A lot of us who got saved later on in life, when let's say we were in college, or we got saved as a high school senior, something like that, I had a personal experience where I got saved in a really drastic way, where I remember the retreat I was at, I remember the pastor who came and put his hand on my shoulder, I remember the questions he asked me.

He asked me like, "Do you ever regret stuff?" I'm like, "Yes, I've got tons of regrets." Right? Massive amounts of regret. I remember him sharing with me the gospel, and I was genuinely saved that evening. I broke, I bawled for hours that night, okay? And I loved Jesus to death.

But I was confused. Like, why? Why do I love Jesus, and then so easily sin? And I was doing dumb stuff, because I just, as a young man, I always felt like it was so easy to make, the friends that were the easiest to make were the druggies, right?

Like, were the guys who drink a lot, the guys who mess around. It's like, they're just the funnest and the easiest to hang around with, and so I kept getting caught up with that. And then freshman year in college, I was like, I love the Lord so much. Like, I was like, in the dorm, the middle of the night, just jamming away, and people were like, "Shut up!" And I was like, "Blessed be the Lord!" Like, I was doing that kind of stuff, but then, on the weekend, I would just be tempted.

I would wanna, like, I had this weird, like, you know, I felt like I was, I needed to steal stuff. Like, I was just weird. I had all kinds of sins in me. And that's when, for me, it was just this conviction, like, and I didn't know what to do with myself, so I tell this story quite a bit, where, like, I hit a breaking point where, my freshman year in college, I remember I was in this fork in the road, middle of the night, like 1 a.m., I just went on a long drive, went down to San Diego, went to my old church.

It was all closed. I jumped the fence. I went to the door, sanctuary door. I just started crying, like, "God, I don't get it. "I love you, but I'm so filthy. "I don't get this," right? And there was just this, like, wretchedness that I couldn't grapple with. So, what I'm saying is, I think our experience tells us that we absolutely have this strange paradox where God saves your soul, and then, I love Pastor Peter Chung's illustration, is if you take a shovel and chop off a snake's head, its body is just like, (gurgling) right?

Is the snake alive or dead? It's weird, right? But that is a lot like our reality when we're saved, is our flesh just, like, cries out for a last breath. Our flesh actually fights harder to, like, stay alive, so to speak. And then, Galatians tells us, like, your flesh, it speaks lies to you, it entices you, and it wants you to keep going in its fleshly pattern to satisfy itself.

You must walk in the spirit of God, right? So, in that way, you have these multiple principles that exist, that you are, in many ways, the flesh is like the snake with its head cut off. And so, can a Christian exhibit seasons of sin and unholiness? The answer is yes.

But the 1 John passage is very clear, that when you lead a life, and you walk in a certain pattern, you are going to bear its fruit, and what's gonna happen is, eventually, the fruit that is born is the rotten fruit of fake salvation, of fake, you know, proclamation.

Oh yeah, of course, I did that stuff. And then you realize it's not real, okay? Now, the second part of it, it asks the question, what if you're not motivated, right? What if you're not motivated? There is so much in scripture, I think, that can motivate us, and I think, today, we talked about, let the pain of being far from your love motivate you to be more holy, right?

If you feel far from God, a lot of times, the reason why some people, like, they feel like nothing's going right is, yeah. It's, for example, if my relationship with my wife, it's broken, and it's just, like, in shambles at home, I cannot do this. How am I gonna preach?

Like, how am I gonna sit there, study my Bible, and like, ooh, this is gonna be good? How am I gonna go home? Nothing in your life is gonna feel right if your relationship with God is messed up. Let that motivate you. But also, I think, scripture is pretty clear.

God asks us, you know, sometimes, all we need is a taste, yeah? You feel the goodness and the freedom of not having to come to God all, like, broken in conscience. Your conscience is all bothered, but you feel this freedom, like, I can approach God through Christ, right? The sins that I've committed, I've reconciled in Christ.

The sins I feel tempted with, I fought in the Spirit through Christ, and I can go to my God with clarity as opposed to hiding stuff. That feels so good. There's nothing like having open communion with your God, yeah, and I think in that way, let those things be a motivation to you.

Okay, great. Are you guys doing okay? I do hear the chairs, like, creaking a little bit, which means, (laughs) like, okay, yeah. All right, we're just gonna go for about another, I think we tackled about four or five questions, so thank you again for sending in the questions, and then we'll take a break after that, okay?

Well, this is a question. As a sinner who has been saved, is it possible to have a desire that is 100% pure, or, like, purely godly, or will even our holy desires be muddled with sin? So, that's really an interesting question. The way I see it is that experientially, we're going to regularly experience compromise, okay?

And a wise man once said, "It's not a matter of are you compromised, "it's a matter of how much," right? Now, what I'm saying there is philosophical. It's not necessarily, "Thus says the Lord, "you can never offer up pure intentions to God." What Apostle Paul prays for is he does pray for sincerity of faith, right?

Genuine love. And when he's talking about that, he wants us to have a pure conscience that's washed regularly. But the fact of the matter is, we are so easily aware, so I do kind of picture it on the lines of, like, Peter, you know, in the whole walking on the, he was so elated walking on the water, but he was, like, immediately, even while being elated, he, like, quickly became aware of himself, right?

So I feel like that's an experience a lot of Christians can sympathize with, which is you may have such a pure desire to do things for God, and so you're just like, I want to serve this sister, I want to serve this brother out of the genuineness, I genuinely want to love, but the thing about it is, in our flesh, we are very aware of how I look in that person's eyes, my own eyes, and the eyes of the church as a whole, like the community, right?

And so I realized, like, oh gosh, there are motives that compete, like, there's a part of me that wants to please God, please Him, please you, and then myself, you know? And that comes so instinctually, it's very, very difficult. But through practice, through prayer, through humility, every time you do something, you learn, right?

I can't, I remember the first time I, like, you know, did this, which is deliver a sermon, and I share about it a lot because it was so, like, profound and deep, you know, for me, which was, that first sermon, because the leaders gave me, like, two months to prepare, I poured my heart out into that thing, okay?

And I spent so much time preparing, so I knew it, I knew it. But right after I preached it, number one, I felt my hands kind of shake, and then I felt, number one, this weird regret, like, oh my gosh, I should have said this, oh, so stupid, you know?

You guys ever do that? You do something, and then immediately it's like, oh, you start judging yourself, like, I should have said this, I should have said that, it didn't come out right, I'm like, they're not gonna get this, you know? And then someone did it. They did it, someone came up and said, thank you for that message.

And then there was this weird, like, oh, you liked it? You know, like, so dumb, right? Oh, you liked my message? But then, immediately, once I felt the, oh, you were blessed by that, the spiritual side came in and was like, don't touch God's glory, right? You gotta be saying, like, it's the word of God, you know?

Yeah. (laughs) And then, but it was gonna sound super awkward, and I didn't wanna sound awkward, so I'm like, shrugs, you know, like, what do you say? So I remember distinctly all that happened, you know? And I remember wanting to talk about the sermon with Bea on the ride home, but then being afraid, because I was like, do I ask her what she thought about the sermon?

Because if she didn't like it, then I'm done, you know? Like, I can't be a pastor anymore. My wife doesn't like my own sermons, you know? I mean, my mind was racing. And I realized, I was like, hey, dude, calm down. You're a newbie in pastor, you're gonna have to grow past this.

Your first feelings of pride are like, did I preach a good sermon, you know? Did I preach a horrible sermon? My first battle with, like, taking credit for something that's supposed to be spiritual, someone thanking me for a sermon, like, what do you say to that stuff, you know?

So I know that's a long way of just kinda describing, but, like, the question is, is it possible to have that pure intention? The fact of the matter is, every single one of us, like children, we're gonna be growing in even the good things we do with the immediate temptations that come.

And, like, within those moments, yeah, the battle against pride is going to be strong and ever-present, you know? A battle against you taking any kind of ambitious credit for that is gonna be ever-present, and so we have to fight that all the time. Great. Oh, bunch of questions came in just now.

I'm gonna answer, essentially, I was gonna just go up to about 2.30, take a full hour. Oh, can a person be holier than another person? Yes! (laughs) That was so easy, all right. Okay, yeah. Well, actually, let me talk about that a little bit, because... (laughs) I remember, so now that I've been a pastor for over 10 years, like, there are times when I sat down with young guys who wanted to be pastors, and I've also overseen internships and stuff like that.

And, you know, in order to be holy, I remember a young intern saying, like, "Oh, yeah, no one's better than another. "Like, I'm no better than you, okay? "We're all just sinners trying to climb this wall, "and I'm next to you, just cheering you on. "That's my role." And I said, "Then you're not a leader." Right, it's like, as harsh as that may sound, then you shouldn't be doing this.

Apostle Paul, in the scriptures, in the passage we learned, he said, "I left for you an example." Apostle Paul is human, he's not Jesus, okay? He said, "I left you this model, "intentionally, for you to follow. "I left you this example, and I expect you to follow it." Yes?

And in that way, good leaders, a lot of times, their leadership is shown by the exemplary lives they live. And if you're not doing it, then you're not a leader, right? And in that way, as you guys know at our church, we take leadership very seriously, because we recognize that it can do a lot of damage, but it can also do a lot of great good.

But the question in terms of practical holiness, I absolutely do believe that, yes, clearly, positionally, before the Lord, no individual is worth more. No individual is more valuable or more cleansed, because everybody is robed in white of Christ. However, on the level of you being a disciple and follower of Christ, he's very, very clear.

Some of you need greater, greater discipline. Some of us need greater, the whole digging into our hearts and unpacking what we're wrestling with. And individuals, we have yet to wrestle in prayer to certain things to overcome some of the inner sins that we have, and those are all necessary things we have to grow in, okay?

Great question. Oh, okay. This is a interesting one. Is it sinful to go to a new church that is more palatable? Maybe a church that is more friendly or more ministry geared towards seekers? Maybe because some of your family members is there? Is this compromising the seriousness of the place upon, I place upon the church and what is taught?

Wow, what a deep question. So we'll answer this one, and then take a break, and then that way, some of you guys who could use a break could take a break, okay? Or we could continue on with questions, too. This is an interesting one, and (pauses for breath) yeah, what a profound question that is kind of unique to our circumstances where we have options.

Again, just putting into context, many Christians, many of the faithful saints prior to us didn't have options, you know what I mean? They were just dying to have some kind of fellowship, and they didn't have options like we do. Now, in that context, though, we do have options, and as you can tell, I'm trying to buy time so I can summarize my thoughts.

We do have options, and this is what I'm gonna say is, the truth of the matter is, there are differing levels of importance. When I think about a decision, because my mind is an over-thinker, I have to sometimes think in this way, and it takes me time. To me, it's like you take different-sized balls, and then you have to put it into this picture to come to a conclusion, but not all the balls are the same size.

Some things are much more important, and it's like that in so many different aspects of your lives, dating, okay? If I tell people, like, yes, you can want a guy who's fun. You don't wanna date a robot. I totally get it, okay? Some guys are super dry, their humor is dry, and other guys, they're just so witty and so fun to hang around with.

Is that an important thing to a lot of people? It is, you know? But think about the size of significance in that versus a guy who knows that his life is as a slave to Christ, right? Versus one of the great sins that men deal with is pride, how much pride comes out.

Another sin that men deal with is anger, how much of our temper do we control, okay? 'Cause we get offended and mad pretty quickly, right? So how did you size this stuff, okay? But it's the same question for church. A church has to be dedicated to the glory of God through all of its programs.

A church has to be dedicated, therefore, to the teaching of truth, because without the teaching of truth, you're never gonna connect, and so right there, I'm gonna stop because you already know BCC class one. We have a fourfold vision that is utterly important to the Christian faith and their involvement in a church, right?

So that being the case, you have to size those pieces appropriately, and then after sizing those pieces, you realize, okay, but the church, actually, I differ on the topic of eschatology. The church, I differ on the topic of spiritual gifts. The church, I differ on X, Y, and Z, and you find that as a significant amount of thing that you want to leave.

There are plenty of people who come to church. You guys know that I oversee the membership process. I've sat down with them, prayed with them, and said, "The Lord bless you." As a brother of a brother, what a joy to just connect with you in this way. I wanna bless you on your way.

Let me recommend you to this church that I know has strong biblical doctrine 'cause that's so important. Let me recommend you to this church because that pastor, I know him, he's my friend, and he cares about the soul of the church and congregation. He wants to grow you. Go there, right?

Those things, those pieces are huge. So in that way, you make your decision wisely. Hope that helps. Yeah, hope that helps. Great. So what we're gonna do right now is take a 10-minute break or so. Let me pray for us, and then for any of you guys who want to just continue to ask questions or just hear questions, I'm just gonna be up here at the front, and you guys can just come forward, and we'll just talk about stuff, okay?

All right, let's pray. Heavenly Father, God, I thank you so much. I just talked for an hour straight. And I thank you, God, that we have things to talk about because, Lord, your scripture gives us so much wisdom. Lord, it is our prayer that every single one of us here, Lord, it's our prayer that you would lead us in wisdom, thinking deeply, intentionally about the decisions we make, understanding, Lord, your principles, and then, just like in Proverbs, we hear the wisdom of the wise, we hear the godly principles, but to learn to apply them.

And I ask, Lord, that for all of us here as young individuals trying to establish our path, may it truly be according to the path you have lit with your word. I pray, Father God, that we would desire to ask the question, Lord, is this according to your wisdom?

And I pray, Father God, that we would wrestle against the wisdom of our own flesh and the wisdom of the world 'cause, Lord, we know the world speaks loudly. It's obnoxious. But I pray, Father God, that you would help us incline our ear to your truth. And I pray, Father God, that even the things that don't seem normal, even the things that seem hard, we would see the wisdom behind it and abide.

Lord, we thank you again. It's in Christ's name, amen. All right, okay, you guys can have a break. And then, after the 10-minute break, our team's gonna come back and give you guys some more instructions. And then, I'm gonna just stand right over here. If you guys wanna hear more questions and that kind of stuff, just answer more questions you may have, okay?

(audience chattering) Oh, yeah. Yeah. (audience chattering) (audience chattering) (audience laughing)