One that says, "How many licks does it get, take to get to the Tootsie Roll Center of a Tootsie Pop?" So immature. Are you a youth group? Seventeen. I'm just kidding. I don't know. But we are going to do a Q&A time, and we are going to talk briefly about like some of the questions that I did receive, even about today and yesterday's sermon, even in terms of things like personal stuff, like how did you meet your wife, that kind of stuff.

Everything is on the table. You can ask, and I do have about nine questions here, including like spiritual warfare, demons, hell. There's stuff like this. And so I'm sure it'll be of interest, but I just want to start with a word of prayer, and then there are two questions that I was already asked quite a bit today.

And so let's pray, and then we'll get this section of our lockdown, I mean retreat. We'll continue. Father, thank you for just your kindness in our lives. Thank you for working in our hearts. Thank you for allowing us to wrestle. Thank you for just your Word. It's not always easy to understand, but we acknowledge it's a problem with our lack of understanding more than it is with contradictions in your Scripture.

We pray for your help that we would just be engaged in how you work, and I'm sure one person's question affects more than just that person. And so we pray for just your guidance over this time, and we pray these things in Jesus' name. First question I got was the parable of the soils.

What are the second and third soils? Are they Christian? Are they not? Like if I can be a third soil, does that mean like I lose my salvation? This might be a little bit challenging to understand, but parable of the soils, the first soil, not a Christian. That's pretty evident.

Parable, the soil two and three, also not Christian. Okay, so that, if you guys are like, "Oh, I'm like two," or "I'm like three," that might be a little bit of like a shock. But parable of the soils, soil two and three, not Christian. That's what you would call apostate.

Apostasy is when someone who commits to membership inside the universal church but leaves it. They are not Christians because in... You guys ever hear of TULIP, the five points of Calvinism? Total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement? Aye. Irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints. True Christians will persevere to the very end, and that's a theme all throughout scripture.

But 1 John 2, 18, it says they went out from us, but they weren't really of us. That's why they went out from us. Okay, so soils two and three, for whatever the reason, they're not Christian. It's apostasy. So the mark of your Christianity 20 years from now, 30 years from now, 40 years from now will be seen then.

Okay, so that's why you need to persevere. You can be baptized and not be a Christian. And is that the fault of a church? Not necessarily. Acts chapter 8, Simon Magi gets baptized, and he believes intellectually. But a few verses down, if you actually look at Acts chapter 8, Simon Peter comes and says, "I see you are full of bitterness, and you need to repent," right, because he wanted to purchase the Holy Spirit with money.

So you see people getting baptized even by the apostles, by the deacons even that may, at the end of the day, not be saved. Okay, so that is something to wrestle with. Apostasy is a scary thing. One saved, always saved is true. Okay, but you just got to make sure that you had once been saved.

Okay, but we assume when you're in a church that we're operating under the assumption that you are a believer. And when church discipline happens, it's basically the church's position that this person is not a believer, and you remove them from the church. The church actually has biblical authority. I don't know if you guys know what those three things are, but the first thing that the church has in terms of biblical authority is to engage in spiritual warfare.

Okay, second thing the church was given authority was to proclaim the gospel and entrance into the kingdom. The third is exercise discipline. So to excise the worthless parts or the wasteful parts in the body. And so that's the authority that the church has been given. It has been abused for sure throughout history, but those are the things that, I mean, those are things that we do need to wrestle through.

So parable of the four soils, hopefully that's clear and sobering that soil one, two, and three are not Christian. Okay, second question I got was how in the world do you do Bible study like that? How do you do 12 hours? Someone like, someone was like, "12 hours, huh?" He actually said that to me, to my face.

And I'm a storyteller, so I do like to embellish, but when it comes to certain numbers, I try not to exaggerate because numbers you want to kind of keep accurate. So, 5.15 I wake up. I get up and I start with my memory verses in my head. I go into the shower.

I'm just going to talk about last week, okay? Go into the shower and I'm in there like 20 minutes just going through verses. First of all, like it takes me a little bit to wake up fully to go through that. Get dressed, I'm still going through different verses. And then by the time I get to, I get some coffee and then I'm in the car and then I'm driving.

And I get to church, typically I'm here around 7, every, like Tuesday to Friday. So I've already been in the Word about an hour and 45 minutes. And when there's traffic, so I turn off the radio, I'm just going through it. Seven o'clock to usually nine before the other pastors come in, all I'm doing is I'm spending time in the Word, right?

Four hours. If we have a meeting, then I have to go into the meeting. But from nine to until my lunch appointment usually, which is around 11, 30 to 12, I'm in the Word. So whether it's Bible study or... I have a lot of Bible study to prepare. But Bible study, sermon prep, I'm just in the Word.

So basically from five to noon, nonstop, the Bible has been going through in my head. I'm on Quizlet typing the verse. In my car, I listen to my own voice, "Hebrews 1, 3." And I do... Every possible way I can have it running through my system, I have it.

And what I do... You know how I do Bible study prep? I do five minutes of Bible study prep, and I do 10 memory verses. Five minutes of Bible study prep, 10 memory verses. It's sometimes frustrating when I have 20 things to do, and I'm like, "Ah." So I keep going back.

It's like almost like spiritual ADD, but I just have to keep going back and forth. But I've developed that habit so that I'm always in the Word first and foremost. So my sermon prep actually doesn't take that long a time, because all the cross-references I had done over the last 15, 20 years.

So five to noon, just Word. Lunch, I take a break. But on my drive from here to DJ or Diamond Plaza or wherever I'm meeting somebody, I'm going through another 15 minutes of the Word. I come back to church, that drive, I'm in the Word. And then from here until about four or five when I leave the church, I do the same thing.

Bible verses, then sermon prep. Bible verses, email. Bible verses, calling catering. I don't know. Bible verses, checking Facebook and ESPN. So I do normal stuff. But five a.m. to five p.m., I'm in the Word. And this past week, believe it or not, I worked out six out of the seven days.

I know you can't tell. But I lift Bible verses, and then I'm on the treadmill. This week I did four days of 35 minutes and two days of 40 minutes on the treadmill. Guess what I'm going through on the treadmill? And then I go through it in Korean, because I want to retain my Korean.

But on my Bible verse cards, it's not just verses. There are things like, so I actually have my own voice in my head, right? 929 chapters Old Testament, 260 chapters New Testament equals 1,189 chapters in the Bible verses. 23,145 verses in the Old Testament, 7,957 in the New Testament, 31,102 verses in the Bible.

So facts. What was the major, two major divisions in the church, universal church? I got it from Grudem. I'm reading Grudem. 1054, the Orthodox Church splits from the Roman Catholic Church. 1054, because the Pope started changing creeds on his own. That's in Grudem. Okay? And then the second was the Protestant Reformation in the 1600s.

If I'm reading a book, I read it slowly. I'm reading through, well, when I was reading through Shepherding a Child's Heart, every verse that he quotes, if I didn't know it, I would memorize it. So I would read slow. I don't like John MacArthur, because he quotes too many verses.

So Master's Plan for the Church, I'm still in chapter one, and I started this in April, okay, of last year. I just quit, because it's just too, he's like, I'm like, dude, you don't need 18 verses per point, but that's John MacArthur. So every book I read, I pay attention, and I actually find out there's a lot of misquoted verses.

It's a wrong verse. Not on John MacArthur's book, okay, but in other books. Because I will forget that human being's perspective, take opinion on the matter, I'll remember what God's word is. The very first verse in Shepherding a Child's Heart is Proverbs 4:23. Watch your heart with all diligence, for from its flow the springs of life.

So everything is done slowly but all day. So I'm running, 40 minutes, right, going through verses. I get off, I'm driving, six minutes, home, verses. Usually I take two showers a day, that's why I never smell bad, okay. I'm in the shower again. And then, oh, I'm tired, so another 10, 15 minutes.

And guess what I do after the kids go to sleep? I'm back on my computer on Quizlet. And in the meantime, I'm doing other stuff. Some days it's 15, 16 hours. Some days when I'm busy, it's like five or six. But regardless, I'm doing it. When I was on my 70 flights a year, obviously my time is a lot more limited.

Now I'm a full-time pastor, so it's easier to do, but I was a lot more limited. But I still did a Bible plan in 2017, still did a Bible plan in 2018, and I don't like Bible plans, so I quit that this year just to go slow now. Whatever it takes, whatever season of life, and that was one of the questions, how do I do this when I'm busy?

You find a way. If you're doing, have you guys ever studied for like a graduate school test? Raise your hand if you studied for a test to get into grad school of some kind, med school, DAT, GMAT, GRE, anything. And some of you, while you do that, you have to work, yes or no?

Do you make time to study? Some of you are taking the bar? No matter what you're doing, you prioritize that and you make time for it because there are consequences. You want to get into a good school. What if it's your family member's soul that you always put on the prayer request sheet?

I want to pray for my mom, I want to pray for my dad, I want to pray for my sibling. But you got to prioritize the Word of God because that's a wasted prayer request if all you're doing is just asking other people to pray for you and you're not so saturated in the Word of God that when you meet with them, it's coming out.

So what, over the last 15, 16 years of just memorizing scripture, what has that done? I find myself when I'm giving advice or when I'm counseling people through whatever it is, most of my advice is scripture. I don't quote chapter and verse all the time, but it's scripture. And you guys are bam.

And a lot of you come into my office and talk about all kinds of dating stuff. And I usually say, "Dating is not biblical. It's not in the Bible." Right? That's a cultural... But then you have to go into what is a biblical foundation that will give me wisdom on a topic.

That's how I do it. Okay? So to the brother who scoffed at me. I calculated it. Obviously, if I was working a nine-to-five job somewhere, I could not do this. This is my nine-to-five job, so I do it. But you'll be surprised at how much time you have while you drive, while you're in the shower, while you're waiting in line.

If you just memorize five verses of the Bible and those five verses you went to all the time when you have time to kill, there were seasons while I've been back where I started watching Walking Dead when I came back here. That show is so good that it's so bad.

It's messed me up. Okay? So I'm like seven, eight years behind. But every break I used to have, I would take it out. You guys know that thing, right? Whenever you're doing something, this always happens when you have time to kill. Right? But when you stop doing that and you let the Word of God just fill that time, you genuinely are happier and you're more free.

And it reminds me to love my wife better, to love my kids better. So those are things that I would encourage you to try out. And you will only do this if you're actually desperate for it. But we're all desperate for it. But a lot of you who aren't aware that you're desperate for it, this is where you end up drifting.

Okay? So that's that question. Any other follow-up questions on stuff? Feel free to ask. I mean, I have some here. But I don't want to just keep talking. I mean, I have to keep talking to fill the hour. How did I meet my wife? And how did I come to Berean?

It's connected. Okay? So, I met my wife in college when I was a senior and she was a freshman, 1999. Nothing, don't worry, nothing happened. You say, "That's scandal." No, it's not. So we... I was the college group president of Berkeley and Stanford Ministries at our church. So people were at our place all the time.

And so her and her friends would come to our apartment all the time because our door was always open. And so we became friends. After she graduated from college, she came... I got her a job at the SAT center I was teaching at. And then she also decided to come to my church.

No interest on either side. And we just started seeing each other every day. And then you kind of... That's dangerous stuff. You see each other every day, you start thinking you like each other. And then you end up liking each other and then you get married and you have twins.

But that's how that started. But the way I came to Berean was there was a sister I was dating back in 2002 and 2003 who was at Berean when the church was 30 people. And I was about to leave ministry because I'm like, "I have too many issues. I should not be a pastor." So I was actually gonna take the LSATs and try to get into law school.

And then because the church was 30 people and then the sister I was dating was one of the members, Pastor Peter's like, "You're dating a youth pastor?" So he wanted to meet. I don't know if you know this, but Pastor Peter used to have a business in Las Vegas.

He was doing like face... He may have mentioned it in a sermon, like sculpting. And so he quit that completely, folded it, and he was full-time. And it just so happened that God had... He was praying, "God, what do I do with this time now that I have?" And then I emailed him.

So it's like a divine appointment in that regard. Came here, that relationship ended very amicably because we didn't cross any lines. And it's easier to break up with someone when from the very get-go you're treating them like that person might be someone else's wife, right? So it was so weird.

She even asked my wife to help at her wedding reception. But anyway, that kind of... It was just like, it was a clean. So we ended up coming here a couple years later. I was a youth pastor at a different church, many of whom are now here at this church.

I mean, now they're grown with kids, most of them. So yeah, so that's how I ended up here. Okay, I keep answering my own questions. You guys have any... Well, they're on here. Anything? Why you guys have been married 12 years and you only have four-year-old kids? Even things like that, nothing's off the table.

Edgar. That's a very good question. You guys hear that? So it seems like in Matthew chapter 12, Jesus is saying, "Satan cannot cast out Satan." But in the process of... In Matthew 7, it seems like it's the other way around. I would say in that regard, Judas at that time was not an apostate.

He was fully empowered with the Spirit of God to perform miracles and cast out demons. And at that point in time, he had authority, right? But in the context of Jesus saying that to the Pharisees, he's basically saying, "My interest is the kingdom of heaven. Satan's interest is preserving the kingdom of hell.

He's not going to cast out his own demon for that purpose." But for Judas during that time, as he had authority over spiritual things at that time, it didn't... Like, it wasn't something that fit him. So in the context of like spiritual powers, the apostles, if you look at 1 Corinthians 12, 12, they were...

2 Corinthians 12, 12, they had authority. The signs that mark an apostle, miracle signs and wonders were done among you with great perseverance. That's what it says. And so it could be perhaps at that time he's speaking of in the context of apostles who were able to do that.

But there aren't too many references, so it's not a contradictory thing, and I think it's just a matter of our limited understanding. But I will look into that, and then I'll get back to you, I guess, since we're meeting for dinner on Wednesday. But Judas is a unique case, and that's why I brought him up yesterday.

Judas had all this authority and then went apostate. But can someone... That generates a follow-up question. Can someone have the Spirit of God and lose the Spirit of God? Can he... What do you guys think? No. Okay. Well, if you actually ever read or sing Psalm 51, "Take not your Holy Spirit from me," will God ever take away His Holy Spirit from a believer?

Absolutely not. Okay. And I'm not saying that's the case, but David saw that happen in King Saul. So in the context of Judas, because the Holy Spirit hadn't come yet, my assumption is that the Spirit comes and goes in that time, but not today. Okay. Anybody else? Dude, he threw like a fastball at me.

Anybody else? Anything to do with, like, feel... Yes. I didn't hear the last part. No. At that time, that was possible because it was before God would indwell or tabernacle in a person. So during... For King Saul, the Spirit of... If you look at the Old Testament, the Spirit of God would come and go, basically take over a person, give him strength to do crazy things, and depart if he was not pleased.

And that happened in many of the kings. That happens a lot of times in the judges where the Spirit of God stirs up this person. But for David, when he's observing the first king of Israel, whom God had appointed because of the people's demands, the Spirit of God came on Saul and he did great things.

And in the power of the Spirit, Saul was victorious in a lot of ways. But because of his arrogance and his disobedience, the Spirit of God departed from Saul. So David, having observed that, understood what it would be like for the Spirit of God, because of his disobedience, could depart and move on.

And David, this was after Bathsheba. So he's like, "I only against you have I sinned." Because he's king. He could rape and do whatever he wanted like all the other kings, right? But he understood this violated God's command. So he was scared that the Holy Spirit will be taken away from him.

So at that time, that was possible. But if you look at John the Baptist, Matthew 11, 11, it says, "There is no one greater born of a woman." There was no one who was born of a woman that has arisen that is greater than John the Baptist. But he who is leased in the kingdom of heaven has a higher rank than he.

So what's interesting is the thief on the cross, actually not the thief on the cross because the Holy Spirit has not come yet, but for you and me, we may have a higher rank than John the Baptist in the kingdom of God because John the Baptist was old covenant.

Whereas for us, with the indwelling Holy Spirit, that's a privilege that the saints of old never got to have. So I mean, I don't know if that's... Hopefully that answers your question. Anybody else? You're going to just start asking all these hard questions, everybody. Yes, Paul. Third World Country, prosperity gospel and cults are in there now.

A lot of the prosperity gospel issues and cults are making their way. So in Third World Countries, they're being lured perhaps by the promise of wealth. So I see drifting in that regard. Bad theology, bad teaching has caused them to hope and trust and believe in things that are not necessarily biblical.

So it is... I mean, if you look at like Hosea 6.6, like my people perish because of lack of knowledge or Hosea 4.6, my people are perishing from a lack of knowledge and that's what's happening in the Third World Countries. So in a lot of countries in the rest of the world where the church is not as strong, you have a lot of false doctrine that's carrying away people, like outright, like false doctrine.

In a country like Uganda or Eastern Africa, Tanzania, Ethiopia, Kenya, Uganda, in that part of the area, they had a lot of witch doctors and it was a very voodoo-ridden culture. And so basically, the witch doctor was king in every tribe, in every village. That witch doctor had power.

But when the gospel went into those countries, a lot of that belief in the witch doctor's power actually got transferred over to the pastor. So there is now a lot of abuse in our African countries where the pastor actually is just spouting off a lot of false teaching. And so you have a lot of pastors in a lot of these underdeveloped countries who were not educated even just like human...

Like not humanly. They don't have beyond maybe even a junior high education. So there is a great need for people like you and myself to go to the field to educate the locals, not to go and make converts, but to go and train up the pastors in order so that they could reach and educate.

So there's a lot of drifting because of a lack of knowledge. Us, it's not so much a lack of knowledge, it's deliberate ignorance that causes our drifting. I don't know if that's adequately answering your question, but that's what I've seen. Culture everywhere. I mean, this is a spiritual battle.

But for us, I feel like here in a first world country, the battle is... Like Satan, one of his ploys is to make it seem like there is no battle. And then we end up kind of... You know that we have a seminar coming up called Lard Mines, right?

Some people got confused. So some things it's published or it's put up as landmines, some things are lard mines, but I did lard mines on purpose. It's stuff that fattens us to death, okay? And that's the danger in Orange County. But in other countries, a lot of it is just lack of teaching where there's no persecution.

Persecution, a lot of times the churches thrive because their loyalty to Christ is tested and they stay true. But in terms of drifting, that's kind of the cause, just ignorance. Yeah. My time in China, why I decided to go, and my role currently. Okay. I mean, this is good for us because, you know, I'm the shepherd over the bam, so for you guys to get to know who I am a little bit.

I had no intention of doing anything missional. I mean, in the sense of like going overseas. I had told my wife in 2003 when we just were about to start dating, "Hey, if God calls us to China, I'm ready to go." So she's like, "Yeah, it'll never happen, but we could work out maybe." So we're like, "Great." So it worked out.

2008, we both, or 2007, right after we got married, we had a summer send-off team. And then we were at Turtle Rock Community Park, and we both sat there listening to just the testimonies that were shared and then praying over our summer team. We're like, "You know what? Next year we should go." And then while we were driving home, we both said that at the same time.

"I think next year we should go." 2008, we went. And as we were walking from, there's a mall, and we're walking to our hotel, which is this ghetto motel, but we were walking there, and Becky says, "Huh, if God were to call us here, I think it'd be okay." She doesn't remember this, but I was like, "That's a sign." So then I came back and I told Pastor Peter, "Oh, Becky said this." He's like, "Would you guys consider going for a year next year?" Because we had been baton passing one-year projects from our members for about three, four years.

I think Kevin was on that, he was that first baton. But the church was like, "We actually need more spiritual leadership there, one. Two, we need an English business there, okay, so that we can get visas." And this is 2009. So I went out with Becky, and then we had a couple more people join our team.

Jane Tang actually was on that team back in 2009. It was supposed to be for one year with the sole purpose of getting visas ready, getting our English camps running, and then providing stability. Well, we, as soon as we got there, I was like, "You know how hard it is to get a visa, like a business?

And one year is way too short. You know, when you think a one-year abroad, you think it's a long time. No, no, when you're thinking to bear fruit, I was like, "One year is way too short." So six months in, Pastor Peter came for the winner, and I said, "You know, I think one year is too short.

We'll extend it two more years. But if we do extend it two more years, let me get into the underground church so I could teach Old Testament survey, I could teach New Testament survey, I could teach Greek. Let me get in there and let me teach." He's like, "Okay, that's great for you, but what's the rest of our church gonna do?

But we'll wait on you." So after two years extended, by the end of our third year, I was like, "You know, if we keep making plans to leave, we're not gonna bear any fruit." Because like I shared, the command is to go. I should really be wrestling with the call to stay.

So we said, "Rest of our lives, we're here until God tells us otherwise. I'm good with languages, and I'm already there, might as well." So we decided to stay long-term. And then I was miserable because we decided to stay there long-term. I was like, "God, I committed to stay there long-term.

It was my, you know, my choice, but I'm so scared. I'm so like unhappy because I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. I work hard, but I feel like I'm just running on a, like a hamster wheel. We're not getting anything done." And then he put on my heart a call to children.

And that was, that may be the only time ever that I've heard God's audible voice. "You need to champion the cause of children." I said, "Okay, China it is, China orphans." So I actually was exploring. We had a disabled, and some of you guys have been there, like special needs orphanage, because there's one child policy, a lot of children get thrown away.

So we explored some of that. I was trying to think of how to, you know, minister to migrant workers' children. But I've been a Compassion International sponsor since 1997. And at that time, we were celebrating our five-year anniversary, and I went on a trip to the Philippines with Compassion Korea.

But it happened just at that same moment that Compassion blew up in Korea, because one of our famous celebrities came and just shared about Compassion. And the inventory, we ran out of children, 25,000 children, boom, gone. So now they had a crazy budget. But it happened that the CEO was on that flight.

So, well, and the CEO is my cousin, but he never travels with these teams, but he just happened to be on that flight going somewhere else. So he's like, "Let's meet up." And then we met up, and I was sharing with him, "How do I do all of this Compassion kind of stuff in China?" He said, "You can't, because the church doesn't have the freedom to move in China.

Why don't you come to Korea?" And I was like, "I just literally three weeks ago told our church, 'Get behind us. Get on my shoulders. We're going to go into China. How am I going to do this?'" So I called Pastor Peter. He actually said, "It's a better fit for you to go to Korea." So then we immigrated again, long-term, to Korea.

And for the last six years, for you guys who don't know what I did, my job was to basically vision cast, raise money, and then just take a bunch of people one week at a time or two weeks to different countries to show them Compassion's ministry, to show them the role of the local church in the universal church.

And that was my job. And so I came back here. What is my role in the Great Commission now? Was that latter part of your question. It's to preach the gospel, to teach the word. I still consider myself a missionary, though I'm not in a different context. But more than helping the poor, I think people have...

A lot of people ask me, "What is your take on the social justice stuff?" You know, like that happened a few months ago. So a couple people asked me like, "Hey, are you for like all of the social justice that's happening?" I go, "No." The church's main objective is to preach the gospel against sin and to accurately handle God's word.

But if God's word is accurately handled, social justice is the natural byproduct, but you cannot make social justice the chief objective of the church. The chief objective of the church is worship and accurately representing God through His word. And so I feel like I'm doing that, not perfectly. But my job right now is just to basically bear fruit wherever I'm planted.

Be here five years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, nor is there for you. Every time I've made a plan, God's changed it, so I've stopped. I never plan to go to China. I never plan to go to China, then Korea. But then it timed it where right when I went to China, North Korea opened up our compassion ministry.

And we spent $200,000 investing into 41 orphanages to send blankets into all of them. And you know who the only person was that could read Chinese and was a US citizen that was in Compassion Korea? I was only one. So at the time, God just kind of moved me there.

And I shared this with you before. In North Korea, I happened to just meet this lady and I bring up this topic of I met twin brothers when I was in Beijing. And these twin brothers actually happened to be her nephews and she let me take pictures and videos of everything and let me walk out of there with eight gigs.

And she actually hugged me at Pyongyang Airport and said, "Go now." And I just walked out. And I didn't think anything of it until afterward. And then afterward, I was like, "I could have been on the news. That could have been bad stuff. I would be dead walking out with eight gigs of sensitive material." But she let me do that.

So I don't really care where I'm at. Wherever I'm at, that's where God desires for me to be. And it's just to preach His Word, all of it, not just one aspect of it. And poverty alleviation is one aspect of it, although it's a big one. So my role in the Great Commission is basically to equip the saints to carry on the Great Commission.

What is the Great Commission? Go into all the nations and baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to do everything I command you and I'm with you to the end of the age. But the only verb in that whole command is make disciples.

Everything else are attendant participles. Going, baptizing, teaching. So my job is to just baptize and teach wherever I'm at. So that's my role. Maybe one or two more. And some of you guys are falling asleep, so I'll take it easy on you guys. Holy is not uninteresting. Okay? Anybody else?

Or I could go to these. Does believing the existence of hell affect your salvation was a question. Does believing the existence of hell affect your salvation? I don't necessarily see hell as a place as much as I see it as a full, unbridled pouring out of God's wrath. God is omnipresent.

He's in heaven and he is perhaps in hell in the form of his wrath, in the form of his justice, in the form of his judgment. People sometimes say, "Well, isn't hell where God is like separation from God?" Yes and no. You're separating yourself from God's grace, his goodness.

But in Sheol, in hell, that's a full outpouring of the wrath of God. So we don't know if it's necessarily down or if it's like, it's difficult because there's a lot of imagery involved. And the only use of really fire is kind of in the book of Revelation. There isn't too much on hell.

So believing in it is biblical. But believing in what it is, it's open to, I think, opinion. Recently Ben Shapiro came on a talk saying he doesn't believe. John MacArthur and Ben Shapiro had a, it wasn't a debate because they're very respectful to each other, but he says he doesn't believe in hell, I think, because it's not in the scriptures.

But that's why I say I don't know necessarily if it's a place. Like heaven for me is not a place, even though there's a lot of imagery of a place. It is in the presence of God and I can see it in face to face. That's what I believe that to be.

Are you guys following my train of thought? Because there are things, there's so much imagery that I don't know exactly what is like exact or literal. But believing in the existence of judgment and wrath is biblical. But I want to do a little follow up. If you engage in spiritual warfare, how do you handle demonic influences?

Do you talk to them? Do you command them? Because charismatic circles, a lot of times they tell you to command the demons to chase them out, right? One thing is Satan's smarter than you. Satan probably knows a Bible better than you and that's something you want to be very careful of.

Jude verse 9, it says, "Even the archangel Michael." How many of you guys have read the book of Jude before? Even the archangel Michael is very careful when they're arguing with the body of Moses. Now that's a completely different thing. But they're arguing over what to do with Moses' body, Michael and Satan, okay?

But even the archangel Michael was reluctant to make a proclamation against Satan, but rather said, "The Lord rebuke you." So when it comes to demonic forces, we're called to sometimes resist, we're sometimes called to flee, we're sometimes called to like stand our ground and take up the shield of faith and extinguish the fires.

We're never called to command Satan or the demons to do this or that. You guys following me? In the book of Acts, they actually, there's seven sons of Sceva, they try to do this and what happened? They got possessed. Okay, I know Jesus, I know this Paul, but who are you?

So that's something that I just added it on. Hopefully not to your boredom. Anybody else? One last question and then we'll put you out of your misery. Yes, let's see. That's a very important question. How do I discern a passion for overseas work as a call to missions? That's a good question, right?

So again, what is the main call that you have? It's to make disciples wherever you're at. And I would say with the 12 apostles before, including Matthias, excluding Apostle Paul, and then not including Judas as an apostle. So those 12, all of their ministries was to, you guys know where all of the ministry was to?

It was all to the Jews. It was not to the Gentiles. And even for the Apostle Paul, the first 13 years of his ministry was to the Jews. And Paul actually gets commissioned to the Gentiles because his citizenship, his ability to, he was very educated. So his ability to contextualize this gospel to both the Jewish culture and the pagan culture, the Gentile culture, right?

He could do that all. And so he was the best person to go. So if you are zero gifted, like zero gifted in terms of language, don't go. Okay? If you have no love for people, don't go. If you have too much debt and you have family members who are sick and in need of your care, don't go.

So there are a lot of circumstantial things that kind of have to line up for you to be useful in the field. So one thing that I have to, like, so I would, I talked to, so in China, I was teaching a seminary class and that whole class, 16 students, none of them went to high school.

They all only went to junior high. And the pastor was instilling in them a vision for Africa. So all of them were like, "I want to go to Africa. I want to go to Africa." And I said, "Why?" First of all, you're not going to get a passport. Right?

Because usually to get a passport from a third world, if you're a third world country member, you have to have a reason. Second, when you go there, you can't even speak English. Because I'm trying to teach them English. What are you going to do there? And how long is it going to take you to speak Lugandan or Swahili?

How long is it going to take you? 15 years? And then how long is it going to take you to actually adapt to their culture? Don't go. I would actually have you go back to your countryside and share the gospel there. Because the countryside in China is dying because all the young people are gone.

Koreans are very mission-minded in South Korea. I'm like, "Why do you guys keep thinking of Africa? Because it's sexy. I want to go to the remotest part of the world." Right? Why? The farther you go, the more money it costs to take you there, the more lonely you'll get, the more likely to get depressed you'll be, and then the more likely it is you'll come back before you can be any kind of fruitful.

I said, "North Korea is in great need of missionaries. And you guys are Korean ethnically. You can speak the language, and you can just go, 'boop,' and come back the same day. Go up and come back. Up and down. Up and down. It's a small country. So, be passionate about North Korea rather than the remotest parts of the world." Because human nature is we want to be the one who goes to the remotest parts of the world.

Would you guys agree with this? If I were to say, "I want to be a missionary," to where? Tijuana. People would be like, "Why?" Right? Because it just doesn't seem like all that appealing or sexy. So to answer your question, let's see, I would say this. How God created you is not a mistake.

Ethnic makeup, ability, okay? Background. All of that is on purpose. Your job. And how God created you and how He's thus far led and equipped you, He wants to use you. And then if He propels you somewhere else, you go, "Hallelujah," and you go. But you bloom where you're planted and then if He pushes you out, you bloom there too.

You guys, Acts 8, verse 1. So Saul was in hearty agreement putting Stephen to death. And that day, a great persecution arose against the church in Jerusalem. And they were scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria. And they were all scattered except the apostles. So how did the gospel first get spread to Judea and Samaria and the beginning parts of the ends of the world?

Persecution. Did they plan it? No, they got shipped out. You don't plan a calling. You guys follow me? You are faithful to your task and when God wants to make it clear, He will make it clear. But are you supposed to have a heart for the nations? Absolutely. But your heart for the nations shall never supersede your passion for His Word.

But as your passion for His Word affects your heart for the nations, then He will send you where you need to be. And that might not be to the places where we think are the most sexy. You know, I'll just end with this. This will be my last thing.

And then if you have other questions, you can ask me later. 2002, I was at a church called Good Shepherd Korean Presbyterian Church in Roland Heights. And that summer, we went to Arizona for the Native American missions, okay? And we've had it all over the bands. Good Shepherd Presbyterian Church Native American missions.

And so we were there. And then I think we passed by like somewhere near Las Vegas. We stopped for gas and stuff. At that same gas station, there was a Korean church from Arizona that said, "Los Angeles homeless rescue." And for some reason, more than thinking it was comical, it disturbed me.

We have 40 people. And this was during the World Cup. So they actually took their TVs because Korea, that's when they advance far. We have 40 adults from our church in like six cars going to Arizona to do one week of mission work. And then you had two bands there from Arizona going to LA to do mission work.

And can you guys guess what I was thinking? You probably can guess what I was thinking. It would have been better if we just went to LA. Because let's say somebody comes to Christ. We could follow up. They should just stay in the Native American area because they can follow up.

But we're doing this because missions is far away. And missions is where you go to sometimes get saved. So you send a lot of non-Christians to the mission field. So to your question, how should I take my passion? Can I interpret it as a calling? Yes and no. Your passion for the nations, you and I all have to have a passion for the nations.

And every single person has to have a heart for the nations. I have zero heart for China or North Korea. I have strong interests in those countries because I've been there, I have vested interest, and I have friends in both. But I don't really, you know, some people say, you just say North and they're like, they start crying.

China, and then they just, because they have such a tender heart for that. For me, that's not the case. For me, it's abused children. When I see abused children, I get a choking. But I have a vested interest in those countries. And so the heart for the nations has to be under the heart for the Word of God and love for God.

And then He will move you in His time. Only one of the apostles really was a missionary abroad. Everyone else was ministering in their local context. And look what happens to the gospel, it's spread all over the world. It's a baton passing. It's not a call for you to go to the other side of the planet.

It could happen, and I hope it happens, but our plan should be to go where I will bear the most fruit. So right now, you're planted in your families, you're planted in your careers, you're planted at your schools, you're planted at our church, you're planted in our community. Bloom here, and then God will move you, and then you'll bloom there.

You can't not bloom here and then try to bloom over in a different culture context. It doesn't work that way. God's Word first, passion for the nation second, my role third. And then you just go from that. And then for specific calling to different places, God makes it clear.

I absolutely believe that with all my heart. And until He makes it clear, just be faithful. Okay, I'm done.