Hello, hello. Good evening, everybody. Please go ahead and take your seats. We'll take a moment to pray and get started with Bible study. OK, let's bow our heads and pray together. Heavenly Father, we lift up to you a word of prayer. With our hearts gathered, Lord, we want to thank you so much.

Thank you, God, for the many blessings and privileges we have, particularly, God, to continue to seek you and your will from your word. I pray, Father God, that as we join together, both in the study and the discussion and more, we pray that this is a time of true edification for our minds to be renewed, for us, Father, to grow in every measure, every statute, Lord, that you give to us.

And I pray, Lord, knowing that we cannot bear fruit in of our own flesh. And so we ask for your spirit to continue to do a work. We ask, Father God, for your guidance and for you to continue to lead our lives. And now, Lord, as we again join our voices to lift you up, we desire, Father God, that you be praised.

In Christ's name, amen. (gentle piano music) (gentle piano music) (gentle piano music) (gentle piano music) ♪ I will trust my Savior Jesus ♪ ♪ When my darkest doubts befall ♪ ♪ Trust Him when to simply trust Him ♪ ♪ Seems the hardest thing of all ♪ ♪ I will trust my Savior Jesus ♪ ♪ Trust Him when my strength is small ♪ ♪ For I know the shield of Jesus ♪ ♪ Is the safest place of all ♪ ♪ Jesus, only Jesus ♪ ♪ Help me trust You more and more ♪ ♪ Jesus, only Jesus ♪ ♪ May my heart be ever Yours ♪ ♪ I will trust my Savior Jesus ♪ ♪ He has set His way His best ♪ ♪ And I know the path He's chosen ♪ ♪ Leads to everlasting rest ♪ ♪ Jesus, only Jesus ♪ ♪ Help me trust You more and more ♪ ♪ Jesus, only Jesus ♪ ♪ May my heart be ever Yours ♪ - Go on that cross.

♪ Go on that cross ♪ ♪ How it was seen ♪ ♪ I can go now ever trusting ♪ ♪ In the one who died for me ♪ ♪ What can I bring ♪ ♪ For Your gift is complete ♪ ♪ So I'll trust You, simply trust You ♪ ♪ Go with every part of me ♪ ♪ Jesus, only Jesus ♪ ♪ Help me trust You more and more ♪ ♪ Jesus, only Jesus ♪ ♪ May my heart be ever Yours ♪ ♪ Jesus, only Jesus ♪ ♪ Help me trust You more and more ♪ ♪ Jesus, only Jesus ♪ ♪ May my heart be ever Yours ♪ ♪ O great God of highest heaven ♪ ♪ Occupy my lowly heart ♪ ♪ Own it all and reign supreme ♪ ♪ Conquer every rebel power ♪ ♪ Let no vice or sin remain ♪ ♪ That resists Your holy war ♪ ♪ You have loved and purchased me ♪ ♪ Make me Yours forevermore ♪ ♪ I was blinded by my sin ♪ ♪ Had no ears to hear Your voice ♪ ♪ Did not know Your love within ♪ ♪ Had no taste for heaven's joys ♪ ♪ Then Your Spirit gave me life ♪ ♪ Open up Your word to me ♪ ♪ Through the gospel of Your Son ♪ ♪ Gave me endless hope and peace ♪ ♪ Help me now to live a life ♪ ♪ That's dependent on Your grace ♪ ♪ Keep my heart and guard my soul ♪ ♪ From the evils that I face ♪ ♪ You are worthy to be praised ♪ ♪ With my every thought and deed ♪ ♪ O great God of highest heaven ♪ ♪ Glorify Your name through me ♪ ♪ You are worthy to be praised ♪ ♪ With my every thought and deed ♪ ♪ O great God of highest heaven ♪ ♪ Glorify Your name through me ♪ - All right, good evening, everybody.

I just have a couple quick announcements. The first, because we have a lot of our BAM single members here on Wednesday Bible study, reminder that this Saturday, our main event of picnic day, which is basically the sports day, is gonna start at 10.30, okay? So please come on time, and it's gonna run 'til 2.30 p.m.

If you guys recall, like, games, amazing games we brought back, such as Tug of War, Chicken Fight, et cetera, et cetera, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Please make sure you're there. The second thing is we have now hit the past halfway mark of our Bible study series here in Second Peter, and, you know, thank you all for volunteering to help out with the various needs that we have for this Bible study, including the parking, the babysitting, and the 6.30-ish setup time.

We do now need more volunteers for the latter half of the study, so we're gonna resend just to everybody the sign-up sheet. If you've already volunteered, thank you, but if you haven't had a chance yet to sign up, please go ahead and do so for the remaining half of the Bible study series, okay?

All right, at this time, please go ahead and enter into your discussion time, and we'll be back together in about 45 minutes. Thank you. Okay, we're going to get started in about three minutes, four minutes. So if you guys can just start to wrap up. Okay, is this loud enough?

Can you guys in the back hear me? Yes? Okay, finally it's fine. Sang, you're okay? You can hear? Sang, can you hear? Sang, are you here? Can you hear me, Sang? I only know one Sang, Sang. You can hear? Okay. Alright, I hope you guys got a good idea of what we're doing.

Alright, I hope you guys had a good discussion. This is a text that, let me see. Yeah, so this is a text that you have to kind of have some idea as to what your theological position is because depending on what your theological position is, you're going to end up interpreting this passage very differently.

So obviously, you don't want to come to a conclusion of your theological position based on prejudice. Right? It's like, "Oh, that sounds more fair." It doesn't sound fair. You have to accumulate inductive Bible study and know the passages and then you'll have a leaning and based on that leaning, you're going to see passages differently.

Right? So this is one of those passages that if you came in with a certain set of theological position, like they say, maybe you came from an Armenian church, if you know what that is, where you were taught that you can lose your salvation, then you're going to look at this as a proof text.

You're going to look at this and say, "Well, here's another evidence of that." Right? That is obviously not our position. We are a Reformed church as far as soteriology is concerned but we don't want you to be Reformed just because you happen to be a Reformed church. We want you to make sure that it's coming from careful analysis of the study.

So what I'm going to do today, I'm going to spend a lot of time looking at cross-references today. Cross-references, other passages that speak on the same subject and then have a leaning and then go back and look at the text with that perspective. So before I go in and tell you, "This is the perspective that we're going to be looking at," I'm going to, again, spend more time in the cross-reference and then go back and skim over this text.

So if you look at it on the surface, it says, "After they have escaped," right? "The defilement of the world." Right? Is that a Christian or not a Christian? How do they do that? By the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So in some sense you can look at that and say, "Well, that sounds like a Christian." Right?

It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than have known it to turn away from the holy commandments handed down to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A dog returns to his own vomit and his soul after washing returns to the wallowing in the mire." So the primary question is, "Is this referring to a Christian who backslides, who loses his salvation?" Right?

If it doesn't mean that, how do you interpret this? Right? Why does he explain somebody who's not a Christian in this way? Okay? So here's some cross-references that we're going to be looking at that clearly teaches that salvation cannot be lost. Because we didn't earn salvation, so you can't lose salvation.

Salvation was given to us. Right? So the only way we can lose our salvation is if He takes it from us. In John 10, 28, 29, it says, "And I give eternal life." Right? "I give eternal life." Right? We didn't earn it. "They will never perish. And no one will snatch them out of My hand.

My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all." Right? "And no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." So our salvation is in God, the Father's hands, so there's nothing that can happen, can snatch it out. So He gave it to us and He's holding onto us.

Right? Okay? Romans 8, 29-30, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined." Foreknew basically means that He knew us. Not that He was predicting, like He was a fortune teller looking down in history and saying, "Oh, I can see what you're going to do." That's not the doctrine of foreknowledge.

Foreknowledge basically means He personally knew us. Right? So those whom He has chosen to love, He predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son. Right? So in other words, if you're saved, God has predestined that we would be sanctified so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren and these whom He predestined, He also called, and those who He called, He justified, and those whom He justified, He also glorified.

You notice here in every part of the salvation, who's the agent that's working? God is, right? Right? He doesn't say, "He does His part, you do your part, and as long as you do your part, you're fine." He says, "No, He foreknew, predestined, and then those He predestined, He called, right?

And that's the reason why you heard the gospel and you believed is because He called, and those He called, He justified, right? The reason why you repented is because He regenerated and He justified you, and those He justified, He glorified. Meaning, He will make it to the end. Right?

1 Peter 1.5, "Those who are protected by the power of God through faith for salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time." So again, preserved by the Father. Philippians 1.6, Paul says, "I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you were perfected until the day of Christ Jesus." So all of the text that you're looking at here is reference to God the Father, right?

God the Father has you in His hands, He's the one who initiated, He's the one who caused you to persevere, He's the one who's going to cause you to be glorified. All of it, from the beginning to the end. Right? Hebrews 7.25 says, "Therefore He is able," He's talking about Christ, "He is able to save forever." Right?

Not until you do your part, but He said, "Those who He has predestined, elected, save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for us." Right? So He doesn't just intercede at moments, but He said constantly. John 6.39, "This is the will of Him who sent me that of all that He has given me, I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day." Right?

Does that sound like that you could lose your salvation? He said, "If God gave Him to me," He says, "I lose none of it." But if we lose our salvation, this wouldn't be true. Right? Look at the text. I want you to confirm that the text is clear, that something that God gives to us, He's the one who causes us to persevere, and He's the one who causes us to be glorified.

So can somebody who is genuinely saved lose their salvation? According to this text. Right? No. No. Okay, I wanted to hear somebody say, "No." Okay. No is the answer. Right? Clearly. Ephesians 1.13-14, "In Him you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who has given as a pledge of our inheritance with a view to the redemption of God's own possession to the praise of His glory." So when you believed, the Holy Spirit was deposited as a pledge, as a deposit.

Right? So if you lose your salvation, what it means is that the deposit was nullified. That's what that means. If you had the Holy Spirit, because of your sins and you didn't persevere, the Holy Spirit was withdrawn from you and you no longer have the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit basically failed.

Jesus failed and God failed. That's basically what that means. Right? So the text where it says God is sovereign, that our salvation is completely in His hand, that we cannot lose our salvation is clear. There's many passages that teach that. But the reason why there's a tension is because we have passages like these.

Matthew 10.22, "You will be hated by all because of my name, but it is the one who has endured to the end will be saved." Right? It says you have to endure to be saved. The one who makes it to the end. 1 Corinthians 15.2, "By which also you are saved if you hold fast." If you hold fast, meaning continue, persevere with the word which I preach to you unless you believed in vain.

Right? Meaning you professively, but you believed in vain because you didn't hold fast to the end. You didn't persevere to the end. Okay? Are you guys following? Okay. 2 Timothy 2.11-13, "It is a trustworthy statement for if we died with Him, we will also live with Him. If we endure, we will also reign with Him." Right?

If we endure, we will reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. Right? "If we are faithless, He remains faithful for He cannot deny Himself." God remains faithful to all His promises. But if you say you believe and you deny Him, He said He will deny us.

Right? That's what it says. So does this mean that you can lose your salvation? That you profess one time and then later on you deny Him? That means you lost your salvation. What does that mean? Every single one of these things says perseverance is necessary. You have to hold fast to the end.

Those who do not deny and go get to the end. Hebrews 10.26-27, "For if we go on sinning, willfully, after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and fury." Right? To profess, but then you continue in sin.

Okay? So let's look at these texts that we just looked at. The first set of texts that we looked at, God the Father, clearly He's the one who initiated. He's the one who causes us to persevere. He promises that He will hold on to us. Jesus Himself says, right?

He says, "Everyone that God has given to me, I will not lose. I will keep to the end." Scripture says in Ephesians that if you are saved, the Holy Spirit has been deposited in you, guaranteeing. Right? Guaranteeing your salvation. So those passages clearly says that you cannot lose your salvation.

You cannot lose something that you did not earn. It was given to you as a free gift. Right? You didn't earn it, so you cannot lose it. Clearly. But these texts say that you must persevere. Right? So how do we reconcile these verses? And I've only highlighted a few of these.

Right? You cannot choose a doctrinal statement that holds on to one and ignores the other. You cannot look at both sections and say, "You know what? I like this better. This makes more sense to me. I don't know what to do with the other verses where it says you cannot lose your salvation." Right?

Or you can't come and say, "I don't believe we can lose our salvation, but I don't know what to do with these verses." So how do you explain these verses where it says you have to persevere to the end? Right? So you cannot declare the sovereignty of God and then say, "I don't have answers for this and you do not deal with it." Whatever doctrinal position you take, you have to reconcile both.

Right? Or else it's not a doctrinal position. It's just your preference. Right? So how do we reconcile this position? Okay. Now I'm not going to go through this. Don't worry. Okay? So if I think our youth group, if you were here for transformation, they put up tulip. Tulip is basically total depravity.

Right? Meaning we don't have it doesn't mean that you're depraved as bad as you can get. It just means that we do not have the ability to choose. Right? That's what doctrinal total depravity. Unconditional election is God chooses us not based upon a condition. Right? If you do this, I will choose you.

It says no. It's unconditional election. Free grace. Right? Grace that is free. Right? Free grace has a different doctrinal thing that I don't want you to get confused with. Okay? Limited atonement. Because God has elected us unconditionally and we do not have the ability to choose him. Limited atonement basically means when he was crucified on the cross he absorbed the sins of the elect.

Specifically the elect. Right? That's why it's called limited atonement. Right? And the irresistible grace is when God chooses us, you cannot resist. The reason why you responded, the reason why you believed is because God was already working to bring you to him. Right? Those whom he predestined, he called those he called.

Right? He justified and those he justified he glorified. And then the last part of his perseverance of the saints is if these things are true the evidence of these things is that you will persevere. Right? So how do we reconcile these two seemingly contradictory verses? Right? God is sovereign and the proof of election is perseverance.

Right? So the biblical doctrine does not give room for a Christian who is in rebellion against God. There are people in our generation who believe that because they, God saved us, one saved always saved, that even if you live in sin that you can have assurance of salvation because one saved always saved.

Clearly I was saved at one point even though I'm not walking right with God. It doesn't matter because I cannot lose my salvation. So they're holding on to one part. But the second part clearly says if you do not persevere, right, you will not be saved. Those who hold fast to the word of God, those who make it to the end without denying Christ.

Right? So the doctrine of perseverance of the saints is those who have been elect of God, who has salvation will persevere. Does that make sense? And so that's how those two sections are reconciled without compromise. So there is no position where a Christian who is willfully sinning can say I am for sure saved because that contradicts the second part of the passage verses that we looked at.

Right? And there's no Christian who can say you know I'm saved today and then I'm not saved tomorrow because yesterday I did something or tomorrow I did something bad and then I come back today you're being saved, not saved, being saved. So how many times in your life are you saved and not saved, saved and not saved?

Right? There is no position that allows that to happen. Right? Our salvation is secure but the security of our salvation is proven by our life. Right? Not simply because we are working harder but because the transformed person would not be able to go back to their old life. Right?

If I as an example if I ate something that I thought was delicious and then I found out that it was dog poop. Right? I ate it for 10 years or 15 years and somebody turned on the light it just tasted really good. Somebody put sugar on it. Whatever.

Right? I apologize for this illustration. Okay? But that's the only thing I can think of. So hopefully it will stick. Okay. All of a sudden you find out it's dog poop. Once you're enlightened with that dog poop all the memory of the good taste is gonna be washed away from "mmm" to "ugh" because of that knowledge.

Because your eyes got opened and you will never be able to eat that again. Right? Every once in a while you will forget. You will remember what it was like the 10 years you were eating it and you got hungry and you got tempted but as soon as you remember it's dog poop you're not gonna be able to go back.

Right? So it's not just talking about pure effort. It's talking about you're not able to because God transformed your inner being now you're no longer creatures of darkness. You're creatures of light. So once your eyes have been opened to see what it is that you have been tempted in the past, you may be tempted by it but you can never go back.

Right? Not you shouldn't go back, you can't go back. Because that new revelation now completely has changed your view of everything. Okay? So that's the doctrine of perseverance of the saints. If God has truly elected you you've been truly transformed, right? You will persevere. So here's some passage. Here's a passage if 2 Peter 2 20-22 is difficult, this passage is much more.

Right? This is the go-to text for people who like here's the proof that you can lose your salvation. But look at this text. In case of those who once have been enlightened, right? You think what it says in 2 Peter 2 20 is seems to be confusing but this one's actually been enlightened tasted the heavenly gift.

I want you to look at how he used the word tasted. Right? Not eaten and digested but tasted. Have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and then have fallen away. Right? So a lot of people have a problem because they look at this and say how can that not be a Christian?

Right? Once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift and partakers of the Holy Spirit. I mean it seems like this person has everything that you need to be a Christian. Right? But here's the problem. He says it is impossible to renew them to again to repentance. So if this is a Christian who is backsliding, if you backslide you can never repent?

God will never accept the second repentance? Only the first one? Is that what this means? How many of you would be Christians to this day? If this is the case? How many of you can have assurance today? Is there any of you who have never repented after you became a Christian?

But if you believe that this is a Christian who falls and he says he can never repent again, that's a bigger problem. Right? Which none of us would be here if this is the case. Since they again crucified themselves the Son of put him open to shame. So who is he referring to if this can't be a Christian?

Right? Look what he says. I think 7 and 8 clarifies that. "For a ground that drinks the rain, which often brings forth the vegetation useful for those whose sake the till receives a blessing from God. Right? But if it yields thorns and thistles it is worthless and close to being cursed and it ends up being burned." I think this explains what he means here.

"Drinks the rain" is in reference to this. Right? These are people who are in the church in every way they look like Christians. They experience Bible study. They hear the Word of God. Right? They receive the blessing of being in a community that has the Holy Spirit. Where the teaching, the Word of God, prayer meetings are happening, mission work is happening, there's leadership, there's the elders and leaders who are leading you.

He says they are drinking the rain. Right? But the ones who are elect, what happens? They're useful. They bring forth vegetation. Same people, the rain is coming but it yields thorns and thistles. Does that make sense? Right? So this is not in reference to Christians who are losing salvation but these are people who look like Christians who are inside the church.

Right? And here's another passage that explains that. "They went out from us but they were not really of us. For if they had been of us, they would have remained with us." Right? In other words, persevered. "If they were of the elect, but they went out so that it would be shown that they are all not of us." Right?

So that's clear reference to the proof that they are elect and that they are in God's hands that they would remain, they would persevere. But the fact that they don't persevere is evidence that they were never of us to begin with. They were just going through the motion. Their eyes were never really opened.

So then why would people like that be at church? Why would people who were just kind of going through the motion but never had their eyes really opened never really knew the goodness of God, never really saved, why would they be so busy at church? Okay. You can talk about that in your small group.

Okay? Especially in a post-Christian culture like ours, what benefit is there in being in church? Friendship? Community? Purpose? Morality? Right? There's a lot of benefits. Football, softball, basketball, right? Trunk formation, just all kinds of stuff. Raise your children together, right? Friendship. So I mean, there's all kinds of reasons why people would go through the motion to stay.

But then if genuine faith is not there, as soon as you give them a--you break that. Right? As soon as you have relational problems. As soon as those reasons why church is important to you is no longer there, then you have no reason to persevere because that's the reason why you were there.

Right? The only reason why a Christian would persevere through difficulty is because you're here for truth. Right? We're here to worship God, and friendship and community and all this other stuff happens as a result of that. But if that's the reason you're here, that's all that needs to break.

Disappointment with people, and that's all in need, and then you're gone. Okay? So the text that we're looking at here is the same thing. It's talking about people who are in the church in every way look like Christians. Right? They escaped the defilement of the world. How did they escape the defilement of the world?

They're inside the church. Right? They're part of the community. They're not a part of a group of people who are going out, you know, sinning. By the knowledge of the Lord. So again, because of the gospel, the community is formed. And again, you notice here, entangled. Entangled means wove together.

It's not just somebody who's just kind of tripping up. That this word basically is like you're intertwined with the world. And then overcome. Right? So he's not talking about somebody who's struggling with temptation. He's talking about somebody who's entangled and overcome. Right? Completely saturated with the world. He said the last state has become worse than the first.

Right? Why would the last state be worse than the first? What is the difference between the first and then the second? Second is much more willful. Right? Where prior you were doing because that's all you knew. But when you have been in the church, been exposed to the gospel, have all the benefits.

Right? And then you fall. You're willfully going that direction. Right? So it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than have known it to turn away from the Holy Commandments, hand it on to them. It has happened to them according to the true Proverbs.

Coming from Proverbs, a dog returned to his own vomit. A sow after washing returns to its own mire. That sounds like poop to me. Right? The illustration seems like, you know, which is worse, the dog eating the vomit? They're about the same. Right? Returning back to poop. You used to eat poop and you say, "Oh, disgusting." And then after a while you go back.

That's how he describes it. And the dog and a sow, a pig, are considered unclean animals to Jews. So he's choosing something that they would say. We would say, "Ew" to poo and they would say, "Ew" to dog. Right? It's not like pets, like we have pets. Like, "Oh, cute." Right?

It's like dog and pig would elicit the same response that we would get when I say poop. Right? And so basically he's using something disgusting and saying it's like those animals. Like we're no better than those animals when we recognize what's filthy. Or at least profess to recognize what's filthy and then going back to its vomit.

Right? So he says it's better for them to have never known. Right? Because now you know and based upon the knowledge that you've been given, he says you will be judged and the scripture is clear on that. He says, "And you, Capernaum." Remember the three cities? Remember when we were going through the Gospel of Matthew, some of you guys were there?

There are three cities where Jesus spent the majority of his time doing miracles. It's considered, they call it the evangelical trinity or triangle. Capernaum, Bethsaida, what's the other one? Chorazin. Right? So those are the three cities. It's right above, if this is Galilee, this is Jerusalem. Do you see it?

Picture Galilee, Jerusalem, Samaria, somewhere down here. And those three cities are up here. Right? So Jesus spent the majority of his ministry in those three cities. So most of the miracles you see Jesus performing is in one of those cities. So Jesus is saying, "And Capernaum will not be exalted in heaven, will you?

You will descend to Hades, for if the miracles had occurred to Sodom, which is considered an evil city, which had occurred in you, it would have remained to this day." In other words, they would have repented if they received everything that you received. So if you remember, Jesus spends most of his ministry doing miracles, and then the highlight of his ministry happens in John chapter 6, when he feeds the 5,000.

And then remember what happens after he feeds the 5,000? John 6, 66. They no longer walk with him because it was too difficult to accept what he was saying. Because prior to this, he says, "I am the bread. You're looking for me because you had bread, but I am the bread." Right?

"If you do not eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, I have no relationship with you." And as a result of that, they turned away. Jesus said, "You're not coming after me because you want me. You're coming after me because of the bread." Right? He said, "I am the bread." And so they couldn't accept that, so they turned.

So in other words, all those professing followers of Jesus rejected Jesus because Jesus would not give them what they wanted. That was not the Messiah they wanted. They wanted the king. They wanted a miracle worker. They wanted a social worker, but not a savior for their sins. Right? So that's what he's saying.

He said, "You've been given blessing upon blessing. The Son of God walked among you. You've seen people who are blind, eyes open. You saw me walking on water, right? And yet you rejected me because I didn't give you what you wanted." Right? So there's greater judgment coming upon you.

Luke 12, 47, 48. "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accordance with his will will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it and committed deeds worthy of flogging will receive but a few." Right? Based upon what?

Based upon knowledge. Right? "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required, and to whom they entrusted much of him they will ask all the more." Okay? So what is the application of this? A nonbeliever in the church is much more in a dangerous place than a non-Christian outside the church.

Let me say that again. A non-Christian inside the church going through the motion is under stricter judgment than the non-Christians who are outside the church. Right? And this is why the seeker-friendly movement is so dangerous because you're inviting non-Christians who refuse to be converted to feel comfortable and accepted in the church.

Right? We're not saying that we should condemn them, but a goal of a non-Christian being brought to church who doesn't have singular goal is to bring them to Christ. Right? And if they don't see any difference between the church and the world, why would they need to convert? Right?

They found friendship. They found community. And all they needed to do was to say, "Okay, I'll take Jesus. I'll take some of Jesus." Right? And they can function in the church. They can be in the church. They can serve in the church. And sometimes they rise up into leadership and don't feel any urgency to convert.

Right? So I think it's done with good intentions, but the end result is horrific, where you're going to have a lot of people in the church who do not understand the gospel feeling perfectly safe until the Judgment Day. Right? So the discussion question for today is, what is the difference between someone who is entangled and overcome by the world versus someone who is struggling with temptation?

There is a big difference between somebody who is living in sin and somebody who is struggling with sin. How do you know the difference? Okay? And before you look and judge other people, how would you know the difference? Right? For yourself. With struggling with sin versus living in sin, what's the difference?

Right? The Bible calls for church discipline for those who are willfully sinning and rebelling against God. Right? If you've never seen or participated in church discipline, or if you come from a church where only grace was taught, without exception, even the word "discipline" sounds ungodly. Not gracious. And yet, the Bible is clear on that.

Right? Not only are we to be gracious, we are to be holy, and we are never to compromise either. We don't compromise grace because we need to be holy, and we don't compromise holiness because we need to be gracious. So the challenge is, how do we practice this well?

Right? Ask any parent. That's a constant struggle. Right? Do I discipline him, or do I encourage him? Right? And you're constantly wrestling back and forth. What happens if I discipline him when he needs encouragement? Right? They get discouraged, and it's like, "Oh, nobody loves me," and they go off.

And then what happens to a child when they are shown mercy and grace when they need discipline? Right? Spoiled. Self-centered. The universe revolves around them. So there's a constant challenge of, how do we practice discipline and grace and love and patience and holiness all at the same time? And it's no different at church.

Right? You cannot do one without the other. Both need to be practiced. But the challenge is, how do we do it? When do we do it? Right? And so there is no one chart that you go through and say, "Oh, now I get it. This is how you're supposed to do it," because all of it needs judgment.

Right? And that's why elders and leaders have been given-- one of the biggest responsibilities of the elders in the church is to make that judgment. Okay? And the church also, we need to-- again, discipline cannot be carried out by just the church leaders. The church leaders may have to come to a conclusion, but when we do carry it out, it has to be the church.

Okay? So the second is, how do we do that? What principles should we use? Right? Is our tendency to make a mistake to the left or to the right? Right? What is your tendency? Your tendency. Right? Do you tend to be more gracious? Do you tend to be more judgmental?

Right? Again, I'm talking about you. Don't think about those five people that you need to judge. Okay? How do you determine when to practice patience and grace and when to practice accountability and discipline? Okay, same question. Four, what sin or sins do you struggle with that so easily entangles, both sins that are observable and the sins that are of the heart?

Okay? Read Hebrews 12, 1, and then 4 through 13, and see what insights are given in our fight against sin. Okay? So if you have time to be able to do that, I encourage you to do that. Okay? So let me pray for us, and then I'll give you time to jump into this.

Heavenly Father, we pray for wisdom. We pray for sensitivity to your Holy Spirit's guidance. Lord, give us the knowledge, give us the wisdom, give us the heart and brokenness and humility to be able to receive your guidance. If there is any hurtful ways in us, help us, Lord God, that it may be revealed, that we may be humble enough, Lord God, to share.

Help us, Lord God, to take sin in our lives that we may have compromised or have excused, that you would reveal it to us, that our striving after holiness, Lord God, would not be passive. But help us also, Lord God, that we would not be overly harsh. Help us to be gracious as you've been gracious to us.

We pray that in our discussion that you would help us to be open, to be vulnerable, and again, that our application would be biblical. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.